The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 07-04-2002, 09:13 AM   #3
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

I don't have time to respond at length at the moment, but a few points occurred to me while reading your post:

Quote:
However, in HoMe XII, Tolkien states that (when discussing the Olog-hai) "there was no kinship from the beginning between the stone-trolls and the Orcs so that they might breed together".
There are problems with this statement. Elves and Men, for example, had no kinship from the beginning, but they can breed together.

Quote:
as HoMe X shows, Tolkien decided that Elves and Dwarves were too "resistant" to be turned into Orks
Not definitively. He seems to have decided in one essay that they must be Men, but later he says something to the effect of "It is probable, then, that there was Elvish blood in Orcs" (sorry I don't have the actual quote at hand).

Moreover, the Mannish origin for Orcs depends upon the round-world cosmogony. If you accept the flat-world version as the "authentic" one (as CRT did), then you have little choice but to say that Orcs are corrupted Elves; they first appear long before Men awaken.

Quote:
Therefore, it seems that they must posses a fea, somehow.
Agreed. Consider, for instance, their dialogue in The Hobbit.

Quote:
Could the Dark Powers 'transplant' a creature's fea into a new hroa?
This is an interesting theory, and sounds plausible. A question, though: what about Treebeard's comments on trolls? He suggests that the relation between Ents and Trolls is analogous to that between Elves and Orcs. If Orcs are indeed Elvish, does that not mean that Trolls are Entish? (I realize that it is not certain that Orcs were bred from Elves, but it is at least a strong possibility). Of course, Treebeard's accounts are often vague and slightly inaccurate (as when he talks about the "great darkness" coming in and driving out the Elves).
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:54 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.