The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 07-31-2002, 10:28 PM   #16
Maédhros
The Kinslayer
 
Maédhros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 658
Maédhros has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Maédhros
The Eye

Quote:
No they hadn't. But continue, please....
When I say that the Valar had forsaken ME I meant that they left literally ME and dwelt in Valinor. They forsook ME in a physical sense.
Quote:
Behind the walls of the Pelóri the Valar established their domain in that region which is called Valinor, and there were their houses, their gardens, and their towers. In that guarded land the Valar gathered great store of light and an the fairest things that were saved from the ruin; and many others yet fairer they made anew, and Valinor became more beautiful even than Middle-earth in the Spring of Arda; and it was blessed, for the Deathless dwelt there, and there naught faded nor withered, neither was there any stain upon flower or leaf in that land, nor any corruption or sickness in anything that lived; for the very stones and waters were hallowed.
Quote:
The Elves could not have wholly repaired Middle-earth -- it was doomed to be marred in the Music of the Ainur, when Melkor's theme arose in discord. Still, many of the Quendi did stay in Middle-earth. Why didn't those Elves fix what Melkor had done?
You're right, they couldn't fix it completely, but they held kingdoms (Doriath) that was a sort of haven. You have to remember too that Melkor returned to ME to continue his work, and without the aid of the Valar, they couldn't defeat him. If Melkor had remained chained, the elves would have made ME a better place, but not perfect and the effects of the Marring of Melkor would be there, but to a much lesser deegre.
Quote:
You're drastically underestimating this little point. The noblest, mightiest, wisest, most skilled, and most beautiful of the Elves were all of the Calaquendi, excluding Thingol's offspring. This is no coincidence.
Why is it that the Valar couldn't come to ME and teach the elves? As the Valar did to Men in the making of Númenor? Is that so far fetched?
Quote:
"Grown as a race"? What does that mean?
When I say grown as a race, I mean that in order for a race to develop their culture and craft, they needed time to learn themselves. Sure they could have others teach them, but they would have missed the part of gaining knowledge by themselves and the joy that it brings.
This reminds of me of a passage in Morgoth's Ring: The 'Tale of Adanel'
Quote:
In that time we called often and the Voice answered. But it seldom answered our questions, saying only: 'First seek to find the answer for yourselves. For ye will have joy in the finding, and so grow from childhood and become wise. Do not seek to leave childhood before your time.'
Quote:
The Rebellion was a result of Melkor's cunning deception and divisiveness.
And who it was that freed Melkor?
Quote:
How, out of curiosity, would it have bettered the situation for Men if the rest of the Quendi had remained in Middle-earth?
Well, IMO, it think that if the elves had remained in ME, and Melkor was first chained and then released, I would hope that the Valar would have intervened a lot sooner, (because there would be no Doom of the Noldor) because they knew that neither the elves or men were able to vanquish Melkor and in doing so, erasing a large years of suffering.
Oh, and when i refer to the Valar, i mean Manwe. I would hope that with Ulmo, things would have been very different indeed.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Maédhros ]
__________________
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."
Maédhros is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:41 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.