The power delegated by Iluvatar

[GildorInglorion]

Thanks, lots of interesting commentary, but you misunderstood me about the staff. There is, of course, no such connection between a wizard’s staff and Sauron’s ring.

I’m not talking about literally breaking the staff (like destroying the one ring), I’m talking about the whole episode; Saruman has to accept he is not the most powerful Istari, being “defeated by Gandalf”.

You are absolutely right that any creature living in harmony with Eru will gain power, and any creature opposing him (her, it?) will lose power. But SLOWLY. It took ages for Elrond to become what he is, and Morgoth was still powerful at the end of the first age after many years of treachery.

So, when did Saruman loose his powers?

quote: “Not when he was expelled, but already, for he has left path of wisdom”

Saruman did not loose a lot (but a little) of his power when he “abandoned reason for madness”, got corrupted. He could still hold Gandalf captive, still create an army, even create a new kind of creature. But from that day (The exact time is probably discussed somewhere else) his power was slowly tapped out of him. Slowly. I still think that if Gandalf had not had his conversation with Saruman after Isengard was destroyed (broken his staffJ ) , he would still be powerful and the Shire would have been in a far more serious condition.

Another issue here is that dark powers (with good I’m not so sure) seem to grow if their armies are succesfull. Sauron can off course be more victorious if he is more powerful, but I think it’s also the other way around, Sauron himself grows with the success of his actions. I think it was a greater blow to Saruman’s power that Isengard was destroyed and his army defeated, then the slow process of loosing power as opposing Iluvatar.

So, for short, one loose a little power when one abandons Eru for oneself. One’s power is somewhat dependant on one’s success. Any creature opposing Eru looses power over large time- spans, not months but centuries.

And finally, how do you create those quotes?