Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

That would work . . . nobody would lynch the dead.

Being evil is nice; evil is cute and fuzzy. Join evil!

That might not make sense now Nilp as I deleted the message.

[A Little Green]

Okay, I'm back, sooner than I expected. So Nilp's a wolf, eh? Not hard to believe; not because he's been too suspicious, nor because phantom said it (), but because of his reaction to it. Here comes my list:

Shasta - more active than usual (thumbs up!), not suspicious.
Izzy - difficult to say.
Lommie - I find her quite innocentish, actually. I think a wolf-Lommy would be more agreeing and smooth (and she is neither). I think her skepticism looks innocentish. Just agreeing without question raises my eyebrows much more.
Nilp - sufficient to say that I knew it would be no good when my daughter married a home-bound sandwich-maker... *murmur*
Sally - innocentish and amusing.
Kath - slightly worrying. Posts little (but the posts are long enough), nothing too suspicious in anything she has said, but then I think there wouldn't be even if she was a wolf.. No idea.
Eönwë - difficult to say because of... ummm... lack of evidence? Leaning innocent.
Rikae - evil but amusing.
phantom - I'm inclined to trust he's a goodie... which does not remove the fact that his bossy behaviour irritates me a lot.
Lhuna - Looks innocent. I'm not sure about her, though... Might be that she looks too sweet.. Leaning innocent, anyhow.
Dury - a difficult case. Looks very non-suspicious, but then, the only time I played with her she was a wolf and fooled me completely...
Roa - looks innocent. (And I like that someone dares to contradict...) Makes sense.
Brinn - I'm quite convinced of her innocence. Contributing, helpful, sincere and makes sense (and I agree with her on most points... )
Legate - difficult to say. Leaning innocent?
morm - no idea. Slightly worrying?
Lalaith - a difficult case, could be anything.
Celuien - under the radar, in a disquieting way. Could be a wolf.
Gwathie - usual Gwath, not as suspicious as in Day 1. Not sure about him, but leaning innocent ATM.
McCaber - another possibility for under-the-radar-wolf. Very worrisome.

I had some important point but forgot it already.


EDIT: x-ed since Rikae's 1108

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by mormegil

That might not make sense now Nilp as I deleted the message.

You're not supposed to delete things here, morm! More wolfish behavior from you... you're just begging to by lynched, aren't you?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

You're not supposed to delete things here, morm! More wolfish behavior from you... you're just begging to by lynched, aren't you?

I also have my role as moderator.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I also have my role as moderator.

Hmm... now I'm curious what it was and who posted it.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hmm... now I'm curious what it was and who posted it.

I bet you would

[Durelin]

Had a rough night, so I apologize for being late. Dang, I thought I had some of this nonsense figured out. Apparently not.

I rather dislike that phantom obviously feels the village needs to be led by the hand, as well. But I'm glad Di-seer found us another wolf before her death, as it seems. Even if I wasn't inclined to trust phantom at the moment (which I bregrudgingly am), Nilp hardly looks at all innocent anymore.

++Nilp

With that taken care of - I absolutely hate lists. Lists are for people who enjoy looking intelligent and organized. They're for people who are motivated and put hours of time and lots of energy into these games. I'm too lazy for them. I'll try to do one even though phantom gave up waiting for Nilp's. Maybe.

I'll be back, and then I should be around off and on for the rest of the Day. Maybe.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwath

And regarding my analysis, Finnlomien, it was my first ever, and I'm sorry it wasn't up to your exacting standards.

Nice nickname. Point taken. We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing...

As for Rikae, I think she's saying she's the EW to make us think that she's actually a wolf and lynch her. I bow low before her if she's really a wolf (who is trple or four-fold bluffing?), because that would be quite genious.

Originally Posted by morm

Honestly, in such a large game some of us need to be quiet.. Can you imagine what would happen it we all posted like you and tp?

At least I can: we'd be far less unsure about some people in general.

Morm - have you stated an actual reason to suspect me (have I just missed it or forgotten it?) or do you just suspect me because you always do?

Originally Posted by Roa

And besides, if we start listing people we think are innocent or we're unsure of, the EW will be sure to lick from those people. Only we won't know which ones. So I'm not doing it. You make a list. I'll be doing something more productive.

Surely that's not that bad? It simply means it's easier for us to guess whom she has picked.

Originally Posted by tp

Okay, here's the deal. The GW and EW still have another Night of activity left, and I can't afford to give the EW an accurate picture of what I know. I mean, if I say who to suspect and who not to suspect, the EW and the WWs will suddenly know precisely who to kill and who to scry.

You could still give us a list with whast you think about everybody. I'm sure you can bluff a little here and there when it's necessary...

Originally Posted by Brinn on Greenie

However, I would like to see her post even more (though maybe it's because Lommy hogs the computer ).

But seriously, I'm not doing that. She posts just as much as she chooses to.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Her arguments become very intense...yet she does not want to take the blame if Aganzir is innocent.

Well... how many times do I have to explain this? 1) I was not sure about her. How could I have been? 2) I did not want people to trust my judgement on her just because we're RL friends.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Another wolfish comment. She's wavering...

People tend to waver when they're confused... or at least I do.

Originally Posted by Brinn

I replied to her about this, but I had thought that surely anyone would see the reason why. Because Di knew Cailin was a wolf, but Rikae could be the EW.

You nicely left the smilies out and totally changed the meaning of my sentence. When I first asked tp why can't we vote Rikae, I was serious. That second time, it was just joking. I thought the smilies would leave no doubt about that... Somehow I'm getting the impression that you're getting a bit over-enthusistic in trying to "prove" that I'm a wolf. Careful.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Gah! She's not the only one making this mistake as I pointed out. But why is everyone forgetting that it could go the other way around?

Well, simply because it really just didn't occur to me, whatever that tells about my power of intelligence... Thanks for pointing that out, that really forces me to take a second look at things... at Sally, Legate, Lhuna and Greenie, for example.

Originally Posted by Legate

She may be skeptic, but heck, there is a limit!!!

There is? Where?
Seriously, I can't see why I've been made such an icon of skepticism. Read my posts and you can see I hardly deserve that title... there's something weird in this image getting so popular.

Kath's list made me feel a little better about her. But that might be simply because she doesn't suspect me... *rolls eyes at self*

Originally Posted by morm

Although a comment from Little Green made my suspicions rise today. (I will supply that later depending upon what happens)

Oh, how informative...

The obvious:

++Nilpaurion Felagund

I should have known, in normal conditions he'd never have suggested anything to the poisonous woman... *scowls*


edit: xed with Rikae and morm... and that poisonous woman

[mormegil]

Oh, how informative...

It's one of those things that if it works out that something happens then this lends itself to this theory, if it doesn't then I need to rethink it. However, I don't want to give anything away prematurely here either.

Morm - have you stated an actual reason to suspect me (have I just missed it or forgotten it?) or do you just suspect me because you always do?

No I haven't given any real reason...do I need to? I've clearly stated that I'm going with my feelings here and no I get a different feel from you than my normal suspcion.

[Nogrod]

morm is a moderator in this section of the 'Downs and has a right - indeed a duty - to delete posts that are not following the general guidelines of the forum eg. are flaming, insulting, rough etc...

I respect and trust morm's judgement in this even if I didn't see the post that was deleted. So just play as that incident never happened.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Imagine all the cover this creates! They'd all be voting for me, good and bad! Bandwaggons are rather nice-looking, aren't they.

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

Pretty . . .

I thought I was trusting him too much. What he said.



Oh, and so it's official....

++Nilp

I'd say I'd miss you father but....well, ya know....

Okay, I'd only really read as far as Nilp's multiple self-vote (which I'm tempted to list multiple times toMorrow, just to be silly) so I'm going to catch up now.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I get a different feel from you than my normal suspcion.

A feel of innocence, perhaps?

[satansaloser2005]

Hmmmm, I think I missed something. Bah, if it's gone it's probably something I didn't need to see anyway, so I'm good with it.




Lommy Mommy, voting your husband is grounds for divorce. But since he's going to die anyway....meh, we'll let it slide. (Don't tell, but I'm practicing for my BS in law....and I don't mean bachelor's....sorry I couldn't resist)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

A feel of innocence, perhaps?

I hate you. But in a warm, fuzzy, I love you sort of way.






If I don't post again, I'll be back 2hrs pre-DL, but just for a few minutes. Oh, and Kath, I'm glad I amuse you. I bring Phantom-sized entertainment without the hassle of the ego.

[mormegil]

Sorry for missing you Legate on my list...

I would list you as odd, I have vascillated with you and I'm a fence sitter right now.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I still have more minions than you do.

Anyway, folks, your evil wizard needs some help here. I'm sure you'll be very cooperative, right? I'm looking for a few good wolves, so come on, don't be shy - who wants to be evil? This may be your last chance, so step right up! Nominate yourselves, nominate your friends, and let me know - just what makes YOU an exceptional baddie? I wish I could make all of you wolves, you know, but my son doesn't share my vision, so don't be modest, because this is a wizard's market!

*waves hand in the air!!!!*


Wait. Bad Sally. Bad. Away from me, vile temptress.

Or alternatively....
Silence! I kill you!



Alas, back to work.

P.S. Di, I'm thinking I know who the lynchee is going to be. But if you still want to amuse me, I'm all up for it.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

P.S. Di, I'm thinking I know who the lynchee is going to be. But if you still want to amuse me, I'm all up for it.

Perhaps Nog might clarify but I don't really see that we should be talking to dead people about the game it really does affect the integrity of the whole thing.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by morm

No I haven't given any real reason...do I need to? I've clearly stated that I'm going with my feelings here and no I get a different feel from you than my normal suspcion.

Well I was just wondering...

And as a sidenote, quite many of us seem just to be comfortable with voting Nilp and chatting. Really, if we know one wolf and vote him, that doesn't mean that we should spend the rest of the day by chatting and not doing something more useful... I, for exampl, I'm going to have a closer look at some people - in a minute.

[the phantom]

All right, after we lynch Nilp here's what we'll have.

Good- Me and Ranger
Evil- Rikae and 2 WWs
Ordos- 14

After tonight I'd like to have a Seer and Ranger to help you out. If the Night goes well then for sure I'm challenging tomorrow.

If the night goes poorly Rikae can't challenge me because I have not been proven as the GW (haven't been lynched, scried, or attacked by WWs). If Rikae wants to earn the right to challenge me she will have to waste a scry on me, for I will be using my Ranger to protect me tonight. If the Ranger is guarding me then a WW attack cannot reveal my identity. So, unless she scries, I am ensured two chances to get things right at night.

If I create a Seer and she scries my Ranger, I'll still challenge.

If I unWolf someone and she scries my Ranger, I'll challenge.

If I create a Seer and she kills my Ranger, I'll challenge.

If we scry the same person- I'm not sure.

Maybe I'll challenge tomorrow no matter what. This village is seriously taking up too much of my free time. I haven't been sleeping enough and I'm coming down sick now and could really use some rest. Hm, so maybe I won't bother protecting myself from the WW kill. Her challenging me tomorrow- I'd probably welcome it.

Anyway, those are the various things that could occur tonight. For right now just make sure Nilp gets lynched. That way the WWs won't have any shot at getting two kills tonight.

[Celuien]

Instructions received - I shall get to making my list shortly... In the meantime:

++ Nilp

Two wolves down!

[Lalaith]

vote for Nilp. He's a Werewolf.

Ah well, that makes life simple. For a change.


++Nilp


More to follow.

[Durelin]

Look! I did it! It was dreadfully taxing, but I managed to trudge through it.

A Little Green - I'd rather forgotten she was even playing. Hah.

Shastanis Althreduin – He’s amusing. Ordo.

Isabellkaya – I like the way she’s looked at some things today. Ordo.

Thinlómien – I really have no idea. I rather thought she was a wolf before everyone (well, a number of people) started to suspect her. I think Greenie makes a good point about her. She’s lost the smoothness I saw in the first couple Days, which was what really freaked me out (anytime the majority of the village seems to want to go along with her, it alarms me). Her confusion may have been played up, but you can make arguments against people who go along with things too easily, too. And I believe some already have.

Nilpaurion Felagund – Well, I voted for him, so… Yeah, I’m trusting phantom, or at least his information, for the time being. Besides, Roa pointed out some very nasty things about him that I agree with, like his eagerness to vote for Rikae, as I agree she is simply a distraction at this time.

Kath – She always rather scares me. She just does. But I rather agree with a good bit in her list (like the Eonwe thing), so I feel okay about her.

Sally – Has been talking wayyyy too much, especially today. I can’t make any judgments, but I’m a little concerned.

Rikae – Hehe. Whatever kind of evil she is, it’s the diet coke of evil.

Lhunardawen – I feel like she’s an ordo. But she also could fall in with Lalaith and Celuien below. I feel like she’s in-between their sort and a Nilp. Quiet and calm with a tinge of crazyness that keeps her from ever being too frightening.

Durelin – Chaotic neutral.

Roa_Aoife – Innocent.

Brinniel – Very serious, smooth, and creepy. Feels like a wolf.

Legate of Amon Lanc – Still feels innocent. Ordo.

Lalaith & Celuien – I’m pairing these up because I feel pretty much exactly the same way about them. Quiet, perfect wolves, though I have no clue. Of the two Lalaith feels more innocent.

Mormegil – He’s starting to channel the phantom or something, without all the blathering, so I’m not as pleased with him as I was.

Gwathagor – His immediate vote for Rikae is interesting, but probably too ‘obvious’ or what have you. He seems kinda generally nervous, though. Course what does that say to me? Not much.

Eönwë & McCaber – Both of them are so booorrring… I feel like lynching them regardless of any suspicion. Kath has a good point that Eonwe seems like an overwhelmed innocent or wolf and it’s hard to tell which…gah. The same might go for McCaber, though perhaps I should toss him in with Lalaith and Celuien, though he is not as smooth.

Look at all that wishy-washy substance!

Originally Posted by Lommy

I should have known, in normal conditions he'd never have suggested anything to the poisonous woman... *scowls*

Oh yes, that...

Edit: Crossed with phantom, Celuien, and Lalaith. Also didn't notice morm's comment about communication with the dead...I quite agree. That's twice now...

[Isabellkya]

To the few people whom think quiet people are suspicious. You want people to post more, but yet when they do; you are suspicious of them. This is a large village, with everyone in different time zones. If everyone posted as frequently as everyone else, we would suredly be well past 50 pages by now. Let alone, every person can not possibly have a completely original idea which is seperate from every other player's - which is related to werewolf and this game.

The point - you can't have it all at the same time, you need to expect their to be overlapping of thoughts. So when "quiet" people do post - no need to make snide remarks about it.


Izzie wanta cracker. Izzie wanta cracker.

[Lalaith]

Good:

Phantom

probably Good:
Brinniel
Legate
Gwath
Morm
Celuien

No idea:

Eonwe
Lhuna
Durelin
Kath
Satansaloser
Shastanis

Bit worried:

McCaber
Isabellkaya


Really quite worried:
Roa

Worried, worried, whoo!:
Lommy

Well, dur:
Rikae
Nilp

[Lalaith]

Here's why Roa worries me:

I know her to be an extremely strong and loyal team player. When I was the Seer and was in trouble, in the Werepenguins game, she stood over me like an anxious Valkyrie. Her performance yesterday, after Rikae ran off, reminded a bit of that. She stayed around, she seemed to be joining the debate, but basically I got the feeling she was trying to prove that Rikae was telling the truth. Like a loyal press secretary, left in the lurch by her CEO at an Enron press conference.

I don't know, maybe I was imagining it, but that's what it felt like.

[Lalaith]

I'll do Lommy after supper.

Izzy - your recent post, quite agree. I can't post much Mon-Fri, as the forum is blocked at work: when I get home, I like to read the posts of others before I post myself - so no, I don't flood-post. However, I was around all Saturday and tried to be as helpful as possible. We do what we can, when we can.

[McCaber]

Once again, I am sorry about my lack of content. My internet is extremely spotty lately, and I won't be able to get on for the rest of the day. I might even have to bow out of this one.

So without further ado,

++Nilp

[Thinlómien]

I really don't understand what you all have against me... Seriously, it's baffling. I'm innocent and I don't think I have acted any differently from how I normally act. Usually people suspect me to some degree, yes, but not this much. (It has been a while since I was last lynched when I was innocent.) So, I'm quite confident that not everybody who suspects me really suspects me, but there are some wolves hiding in the crowd, as I seem to have become the "official suspicious person" everybody has to be suspicious of. Which ones are the pretenders or the go-alongs then? No idea. I'm tempted to look at everybody who has expressed suspicion of me because I'm quite sure there'll be a wolf or two among the sheep. (See? Not a that good idea to flow along the current. You get what you deserve: a proper inspection. )


edit: xed with McC

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, it looks like you really won't see anything more from me toDay, too busy. Let's hope there will be still something to see toMorrow. My vote, for the sake of it:

++Nilp

And that will be it. Fare thee well.

[Eönwë]

Ok, well here's my list (bear in mind I've never played, so):

Innocent:
the phantom- most likely, but an enigma.

Probably innocent:
Shastanis Althreduin
Mormegil
Celuien
McCaber

Slightly less innocent (maybe becoming a bit furry):
A Little Green
Isabellkaya
Roa_Aoife- It hought she was evil at the beginning but now I'm convinced otherwise. Hmm. Nasty wolf trickses maybe, but more likely not.
Thinlómien

Hmm (claws, perhaps):

satansaloser2005 (Well she said write Sally)- she writes too much pointless stuff. But I've never played before. Is might always be like this.
Kath- Something's not quite right
Legate of Amon Lanc- a bit quiet laetley. Maybr an ordoed wolf

Pure evil:
Rikae
Nilpaurion Felagund


Don't know:
Durelin
Lhunardawen
Brinniel
Lalaith- something's odd
Gwathagor

x-ed with Lalaith #3 onwards

[Eönwë]

Then there's the Rikae problem. Is she really the EW? We all seem to take this for granted, but...

I have a theory, but that might just get me killed, so I won't say it.

[Eönwë]

And Lalaith- seems reassuring, but is there something more sinister behind the guise of a mouse? Probably not.

But Lommy keeps on trying to get people not to look at her as suspicious, or otherwise that makes them look suspicious. She's just masking her scent... (or is she the one who can tell people by their scent?)

[A Little Green]

Well I might as well vote now.

++ Nilp

(By the way, this current situation is quite dull, actually. Someone comes and tells you who is a wolf, then you vote him out, and have new instructions the next day. Bah.)

I agree with Lommy, though, that we shouldn't think that "Okay, phantom (who seems to be the GW after all...) will clear the situation out, let's chat while we wait for him to tell us what to do." It will profit no one, especially because we still have two wolves to catch. Who do I think might be among those two? Hmmm... McCaber? Kath? Celuien? I don't know.


EDIT: x-ed with 1xEönwë

[Celuien]

Starting with the obvious:

Bad to the bone:
Rikae
Nilpaurion Furrygund

Good:
the phantom

Making me suspicious:
Roa_Aoife - at first I thought the fighting with the phantom was just personalities facing off... but now that it's rather obvious that he's innocent, it's troubling to me that she's continuing to voice mistrust of him (ex: "I'm not certain we can trust phantom" in post 1110). Yes, phantom's assuredness can be... taxing. But he's the one person here I think can be trusted right now, so irritating or not, bossiness should get a pass. *shrugs*

And also suspicious for initially trusting evil-Rikae's GW impersonation yesterday.

Slightly less suspicious:
Lommy - something felt funny about her reactions to the events yesterday, as pointed out by others. I have nothing to add to those comments.

Probably good:
morm
Lalaith
Gwathagor
sally
Legate

Now for the largest category....

I can't tell
Greenie
Shasta
Izzy
Eönwe
Kath
The Lhunatic
Durelin
Brinniel
McCaber

Will think some more on that category.

And I think that's everyone.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Whee, lots of posts.

++Nilp

I had a point about Phantom and Diamond that I thought up on the ride over but since it's pretty clear now who's who, I won't go into that.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Then there's the Rikae problem. Is she really the EW? We all seem to take this for granted, but...

I have a theory, but that might just get me killed, so I won't say it.

Killed? Killed in the Night? You'd be sacrificing your life for greater good... Lynched? No, we're not that quick to jump on weird theories. Obviously, it's difficult to give you advice but as a rule: say it aloud as crazy as it is and whatever might happen to you (unless you are a person of special importance) unless it benefits the evil team to know it.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

But Lommy keeps on trying to get people not to look at her as suspicious, or otherwise that makes them look suspicious. She's just masking her scent... (or is she the one who can tell people by their scent?)

No, that's not me, that's my treacherous husband. Anyway, what I wanted to interefere with in this statement is that suspecting me is not suspicious per se, but when half of the village is doing it - with very weak grounds as far as I can see - it is suspicious.

Speaking of which, I'm going to see who have suspected me toDay (and possibly yesterDay) and then I'll draw a conclusion or two... Beware.

[Brinniel]

You know, every time phantom reveals a wolf, I begin to doubt him. But then claimed wolf spoils it all by their reaction. It's almost like the bad guys are doing the work for us...

But really, I think it's time I start trusting phantom. As much as I hate trusting anyone, I can't see any possible way he would be lying..

Is there any point to my vote? I think it's quite obvious who's going to be lynched.

++Nilp

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

If I create a Seer and she scries my Ranger, I'll still challenge.

If I unWolf someone and she scries my Ranger, I'll challenge.

If I create a Seer and she kills my Ranger, I'll challenge.

If we scry the same person- I'm not sure.

And what if I kill your seer for a third time, eh?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Roa

Um, no, I didn't. I was one of the people questioning her from the start. In fact, I never said we should believe her at all. I simply believed that the best way to tell if she was telling the truth was to lynch Legate. That's how we usually test the seer. After phantom revealed, I was more inclined to believe her over him, for obvious reasons, but I still never fully placed my turst in her.

You were questioning her, in the sense that you were asking questions. But you weren't questioning her role...at first. I don't think I'm the only one interpreting it this way, but your reactions seemed like an awful lot like you believed her. I do see some doubts in your posts, but not from the initial reaction...plus the doubt seemed to come after others started to doubt her. These quotes from you I just found rather odd...you still seemed trying hard to believe her, even if there was some doubt:

Originally Posted by Roa

Rikae, I'm assuming that your seer dreamed him?

And phantom wasn't evil when your seer dreamed him? When was that?

Originally Posted by Roa

Look, if Rikae knows that Legate is the EW, not a wolf, then I don't want to lynch him. He won't die, and it will just take up our llynch space so that we don't lynch a wolf.

But if Legate is a wolf then we should definitely lynch him.

Unfornately, Rikae didn't specify. And she didn't tell us why she revealed. Was she in danger? I haven't finished reading through the thread yet....

Originally Posted by Roa

Wait! Do you think that the EW may have scried Rikae last night? If her identity is already known, that also means that there was no wolf turned last night. And she would have no reason to hide. Which means if Legate is a wolf and we lynch him, the wolves will be down significantly.

Originally Posted by Roa

At the same time, if Rikae IS the GW, and was scried last night, then she already knows our odds are good. Really good. If we get a wolf today.

[Rikae]

Guess what, Phantom? You just lynched my trusted second-in-command, who knows everything I know. If you had scried him instead, you would have won.