The atrocity of the Akallabêth

[Raynor]

Concerning the drowning of Numenor by the valar: from what I read in HoME V, this was the manner in which things went only in the first sketch of the story, the first and the second variant; in those variants, the numenoreans cruised with their ships in the air, Melkor could come, if only by Shadow, to Numenor, Numenoreans could come close to Tol Eressea (even the kings could come to Valinor), the life length of the numenoreans was due to the light of Valinor, which they could enjoy and began to want more, and so on. These are obviously very early materials, which were later discarded. Begining with the revision of the second variant, Numenor is sank by Iluvatar. I am not sure how to explain Tolkien's pen slip in that paragraph, by writting about something which, as far as I can tell, he discarded. I guess regressing to the childhood memory of the Atlantis complex has its downsides ....

Well, it may be he could not or would not - but isn't he omnipotent?

True, however Tolkien states that Eru guarantee the acts and choices of the valar, their free will which later translates into the basic reality of Ea, making specific refferences to the evil of Melkor.

In Osanwe kenta we have the unati, rules which will not be broken by anyone while the creation lasts; I would hold that this is one. In The Lost Road, Elendil also talks about laws, which cannot be changed, and rules, to which exceptions exists. While Eru may bring exceptions to rules, by his own will the laws will be upheld; in his case, this won't affect his options much, seeing that Tolkien states he can transform even his punishments into divine gifts.

In the Ainulindale, it is stated that even the evil of Melkor is part of the whole - and that his most triumphant "notes" are woven into a more solemn patern. Removing evil would mean making this particular creation less whole. It is also stated that the splendour of the End of Arda amazed the Ainur.

Fine but this a) assumes Eru = the Christian God

Seeing that Tolkien applies Christian percepts when discussing Frodo I don't see the problem.

b) leads us to ask exactly how destroying all the Numenoreans equates to 'forgiving everything'?

You are changing the scope of my statement; forgiveness is to be acted by humans so as to atone for their sins. I don't know how Eru treats sins. One orthodox concept, which I think it is "shared" by the elves concerning Arda remade, is that all Men will enjoy a pleasant existence (forgiveness of all sins - I don't know the greek name, only heard it once, it almost broke my tongue).

Ok, please present the context from which you derive that children like cruel justice.

I guess I am left to comment on this on my own. It is nowhere near clear that children enjoy cruelty, no matter what it accompanies, be it justice or not. I would hold this to be esspecially true since their desire for justice comes out of innoncence.

As Child & SPM have stated, this act of Eru's causes a serious problem for some readers, as it does not sit with his stated attributes of mercy & compassion.

However, it seems that no other better way is possible in the circles of this world. All in all, this is the best solution possible to that situation. I won't repeat how I consider denigrating Eru, if we can't see something better to be done.

You are both coming at it from entirely different perspectives, in which personal beliefs play a major part.

The problem is that certain perspectives contradict what information we have about this world/work. As far as I can tell, his work is in consonance with the spirit of morality, humanity and spirituality. As such, this is not just about our personal opinions, but also about the relation of his works to these values.