WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

This is annoying me to no end, if we don't get a baddie today our chances are going to be very slim tomorrow, and you are talking about lynching me!

Come on, sweetheart. If you cooled down a bit you'd see that the things you've said do make you seem very suspicious. You, too, would get suspicious of such comments. Of course if you're innocent then it isn't reasonable for us to talk about lynching you, but just don't act as if you had no idea how come anyone could suspect cute little you.

Originally Posted by Agan

It's pretty interesting Greenie doesn't find Izzy (who practically confessed earlier today) suspicious but wavers on her. Remember the wolves can afford to be bold at this point, there are so few days left if everything goes according to their will.

Practically confessed? If that's true then I must've missed that. Anyway, one reason for me to waver on Izzy is that if you are a wolf it makes me wonder whether the thing the two of you are playing at is too dangerous to be wolf-on-wolf - but then, you said it yourself, wolves can afford to be bold at this point.

[Aganzir]

Mira you could for example be the one to start and tell me why Gwath was killed.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

but just don't act as if you had no idea how come anyone could suspect cute little you.

Aww Green you're all too sweet, you're making me smile all the time although I'm pretty p*ssed off. <3
Seriously I still don't understand what was so suspicious in my comment and despite asking, no one has bothered to tell me. It was what I had been thinking, take it or leave it.

Originally Posted by Green

Practically confessed? If that's true then I must've missed that. Anyway, one reason for me to waver on Izzy is that if you are a wolf it makes me wonder whether the thing the two of you are playing at is too dangerous to be wolf-on-wolf - but then, you said it yourself, wolves can afford to be bold at this point.

She did absolutely nothing to explain her behaviour, which I take as a confession. If she was innocent it would be in her best interests that we didn't lynch her, especially given how little time there's left.

And why on earth are you more certain about my guilt than Izzy's? I'm not the one who has pretended to be a gifted and claimed to know who the seer has found guilty (the both of whom, surprisingly, innocent).

Oh yes I forgot to mention one reason I was uncertain about Izzy's claim - I wondered why she'd come out as the ranger since then not just one but two people would know she was lying, if she wasn't the ranger herself.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

She did absolutely nothing to explain her behaviour, which I take as a confession. If she was innocent it would be in her best interests that we didn't lynch her, especially given how little time there's left.

I don't see how it would be in a wolf's best interests that we lynched her, either.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I don't see how it would be in a wolf's best interests that we lynched her, either.

But if she was innocent she would probably explain why she did what she did - now she seems to have contented to be lynched, like, "there's nothing I can do about it so why even try". I think it's more likely a baddie goes down without fighting than an innocent.

[McCaber]

First off, I'm sorry about not being there yesterDay. I need to remember my on and off days better.

So it looks rather dire for our humble village right now. I won't have a lot of time toDay, either, so I've got to go with

++Aganzir

I should be back later to take a look at a few more people. But it should be pretty clear that we found at least one wolf today.

[the phantom]

I'm certainly not saying that Agan is innocent, but why does she look more guilty than Izzy, people?

[Aganzir]

Be so kind as to explain the reasons for your vote, McCaber.

Also, you could go and tell me why Gwath was killed. I'm interested in hearing your theory.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

And why on earth are you more certain about my guilt than Izzy's? I'm not the one who has pretended to be a gifted and claimed to know who the seer has found guilty (the both of whom, surprisingly, innocent).

First of all, there is the fact that I still find your comments about Izzy and Gwath terribly furry, and like I said your guilt would make Izzy's a bit less probable. Certainly not impossible, but less probable. Secondly, there is this point you yourself phrased quite a lot clearer than I could have:

Originally Posted by Agan

Oh yes I forgot to mention one reason I was uncertain about Izzy's claim - I wondered why she'd come out as the ranger since then not just one but two people would know she was lying, if she wasn't the ranger herself.

Since the Seer and Ranger can communicate, claiming as Ranger would be as good as telling both the Seer and the real Ranger "I'm a baddie". There has been no counter-claim, though it's possible that the real Ranger - or let alone the Seer - wants to lay low for some time still. Be that as it may, it would still be a huge risk for a wolf to claim as Ranger in a game where claiming as Ranger pretty much reveals his/her identity to two players instead of one.


EDIT: x-ed since my last - wow, there's people here!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gwath's death doesn't surprise me much, though - the way he and Izzy started suspecting me almost simultaneously looked like they had been communicating with each other. The wolves probably thought they'd get the seer (or, alternatively, if Izzy is a wolf, wanted to make it look like they had been trying to target the seer).

Agan:

The wolves probably thought they'd get the Seer, agreed. If they thought Gwath was the Seer then it's pretty clear that his totally unexplained and out-of-the-blue vote for you had something to do with it.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm certainly not saying that Agan is innocent, but why does she look more guilty than Izzy, people?

Yeah that's what I'd like to know too.

Some people are doing a very good job at making me look like a wolf and I can't believe even people I've always considered sensible players are falling for it!

[the phantom]

By the way, did anyone notice this in yesterday's narrative?

The villagers dropped the bows and started walking to their proper homes, the four baddies taking their usual routes towards the Old Witch's home. They all smiled to themselves. What bad guy doesn't know how to shoot an arrow?

Shasta was killed by four arrows. Four baddies walked to the Witch's home. First, I'd say that Reddie has not been turned.

Second, if baddies can all shoot arrows, wouldn't five arrows have killed Shasta? I see five baddies listed on the role list. Have we lost one somehow?

[the phantom]

(yesterday)

Izzy- I'm the Ranger, and I've been dreamed of! Shasta and Agan are evil!

(after the lynch)

Izzy- Ha ha! No. Just kidding.

Why aren't people lining up to throw stones at her?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Some people are doing a very good job at making me look like a wolf and I can't believe even people I've always considered sensible players are falling for it!

Who and who are you talking about?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

Some people are doing a very good job at making me look like a wolf and I can't believe even people I've always considered sensible players are falling for it!

Originally Posted by Green

Who and who are you talking about?

Yeah, I want to know that too. Because you obviously can't mean Greenie, Fea, or McCaber.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

First of all, there is the fact that I still find your comments about Izzy and Gwath terribly furry, and like I said your guilt would make Izzy's a bit less probable.

A suspicious comment versus blatant lying, posing as a gifted & throwing two players for lynching? What if a few people had decided to vote for me instead of Shasta and I had been the seer? That'd be funny, wouldn't it? (No I'm not the seer, don't worry, but Izzy was pretty reckless there).

Originally Posted by Green

There has been no counter-claim, though it's possible that the real Ranger - or let alone the Seer - wants to lay low for some time still. Be that as it may, it would still be a huge risk for a wolf to claim as Ranger in a game where claiming as Ranger pretty much reveals his/her identity to two players instead of one.

Indeed and that's why it doesn't make any sense to me! However she herself said that she wasn't telling the truth and I think at least in that we can believe her. Also, why would the ranger reveal herself now just to ensure Izzy is lynched?
Actually I would quite prefer she did it, there's not much time left (gosh that seems to be my favourite phrase today... But then, it's true!).

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

If they thought Gwath was the Seer then it's pretty clear that his totally unexplained and out-of-the-blue vote for you had something to do with it.

No, to me it isn't. I suggested they thought so because there seemed to be a connection between Gwath and Izzy, both of their change of mind about me was so quick and weird. (I am tired with repeating myself!)
And according to Izzy-ranger the seer hadn't dreamed of me so that sort of ruins your theory, too.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

(yesterday)

Izzy- I'm the Ranger, and I've been dreamed of! Shasta and Agan are evil!

(after the lynch)

Izzy- Ha ha! No. Just kidding.

Why aren't people lining up to throw stones at her?

Why not, indeed? It's become the Agan Show today. Not without reason, but it almost looks like Izzy's on the way to getting a pass.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Inzil

but it almost looks like Izzy's on the way to getting a pass.

Not if we don't let her.

I'm certainly not going to vote this early (in case someone wants to reveal later or something), but I'm not about to let this thing die.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Shasta was killed by four arrows. Four baddies walked to the Witch's home. First, I'd say that Reddie has not been turned.

A good find. So there's still hope, at least for today, but we really really really need to get a baddie soon.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Who and who are you talking about?

I am talking about the wolves who made a kill that frames me, myself for talking too much and apparently saying wrong things (see? A village full of dead loudmouths and living silent ones. When will we learn?), and those of you who keep insisting I'm guilty (pretty much everyone).
And the latter who includes those of you who keep insisting I'm guilty (pretty much everyone).

[A Little Green]

I'm not saying I don't suspect Izzy. I'm freaked out by her if truth be told. The thing is, she is confusing me a lot at this point and I won't say anything decisive about her before I've re-read at least her reveal and her toDay's posts. And, like I think I mentioned before, I should be writing an essay instead of werewolfing and actually it's about time I went to bed so I won't do those things today. I definitely will before voting, so you can calm yourself in that sense.


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Some people are doing a very good job at making me look like a wolf and I can't believe even people I've always considered sensible players are falling for it!

Originally Posted by Agan

I am talking about the wolves who made a kill that frames me, myself for talking too much and apparently saying wrong things (see? A village full of dead loudmouths and living silent ones. When will we learn?), and those of you who keep insisting I'm guilty (pretty much everyone).
And the latter who includes those of you who keep insisting I'm guilty (pretty much everyone).

So does that make me an evil mastermind and a misled innocent at the same time?

[A Little Green]

Gah, I really must be off to bed now. I'll be back before DL, though I'm not sure how much I'll be able to post.

[McCaber]

I think Izzy is very probably a wolf, but I also think so about Aganzir. If things go differently than I expect, I will be glad to change my vote to Izzy before deadline.

To be honest, I haven't had much time to read a lot of yesterDay's posts, so I really don't know why Gwath was killed. I'll tell you my thoughts about that and other happenings soon enough, though.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

So does that make me an evil mastermind and a misled innocent at the same time?

I haven't decided yet which one you are.

Gosh I've missed being angry, I always play better when in an aggressive mood. The unfortunate thing is that I see wolves everywhere and there's no time to lynch them all.

I'm looking forward to you changing your vote, Cab.

A pity that Green just went to bed, but who others are there? Phantom and Inziladun, why was Gwath killed?

[wilwarin538]

In the middle of all the discussion and confusion and mahem and arguing and accusing the villagers suddenly realised that someone was missing. A Little Green was nowhere to be seen.

“Wasn’t she here just a second ago?” the phantom said, looking around.

“Yeah she was. Where’d she run off too?” Aganzir questioned, beginning to search around the town square.

They all did the same, looking in the alleys, under benches, in trees, in garbage bins, etc etc. Then they reached the little school house. Slowly they walked inside and searched around the little room. Then they got to Greenie’s desk.

“Oh my!” Eomer gasped. It was a terrible sight. Greenie had been all chopped up into pieces. She was lying now on the floor, all of her limbs in the right places but with a little gap in between each. It was an awful sight to behold.

The villagers were shocked, a death in the middle of the Day, it couldn’t be! But it was true. They returned mournfully to the town square as Eomer readied a grave for the poor Cinderella.

The dead:
Nienna - hung Day 1 - ordinary villager
Lommy – mauled Night 2 – ordinary villager
Mith - lynched Day 2 - Fair Maiden
Boro88 – yum, frog legs Night 3 – Frog-Prince
Sally – died of shear sorrow Night 3 - Princess
Shasta - shot by arrows Day 3 - ordinary villager
Gwath – defeated Night 4 – Prince Charming
Greenie – chopped up by the Robber Bridegroom middle of Day 4 - Cinderella

The living:
Nerwen - bookmaker
Eomer - gravedigger
Aganzir - jailor, arena and lions included
McCaber - humble shopkeeper
Izzy - baker
Mira - apothocary
Gaurcrist - blacksmith
Kath - restaurant owner
Inziladun - shruberrer's apprentice
Fea - Storyteller
Lari - fortune teller
the phantom - the crazy book liberator

Still Day 4. Continue please.

[Aganzir]

Whoa.

5-7.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Whoa.

5-7.

Uhm...not necessarily. I don't know if I said this or not but the Robber Bridegroom counts as a villager in the tally, just like Cobblers usually do.

Unless LRC has been turned, then it would indeed be 5-7. But of course I'm not gonna tell you guys that.

***Wilwa prances away all evil and powerful like***

[Aganzir]

Yes I thought it would be so, but it doesn't really matter - the Bridegroom is on the wolves' side.

[Inziladun]

Who saw that coming (except the evil RB, of course)? This was the first time I'd really had a chance to read a lot of her posts, and I was quite liking what I saw.
So much for the Lover pairs.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

So much for the Lover pairs.

Tell me about it.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Mira you could for example be the one to start and tell me why Gwath was killed.

And why would I have any idea why Gwath was killed?

In case you couldn't tell I'm here and reading, just needed to respond to that before I forgot.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

And why would I have any idea why Gwath was killed?

Because everyone is supposed to have at least some kind of idea, and I am trying to find out how much my own idea resembles those of the others in order to tell if my way of thinking is innocent or not.

By the way, more than half the players have less posts than the mod.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Because everyone is supposed to have at least some kind of idea, and I am trying to find out how much my own idea resembles those of the others in order to tell if my way of thinking is innocent or not.

For a second there I thought you were accusing me of being one of the ones who killed him. Nice to see that's not the case.

Personally, I agree that the baddies thought they were going to get the seer, but I'll go through Gwath's posts from yesterDay now to see if I can find anything else.

[Mirandir]

So I didn't find anything that would necessarily lead to me to believe that the wolves got seer-vibes from Gwath, but I did find something else interesting.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Was that too terse? Let me expound.

If Aganzir is talking about the big post that Shasta made earlier toDay, Aganzir's remark doesn't make any sense because Shasta really didn't say anything particularly weird in that post. He did, however, direct some pointed comments in Aganzir's direction and it looks a lot to me like Aganzir is trying to brush it all off as nothin'. Aganzir's flippancy here and other places is making me suspicious.

Here Gwath finds Agan's comment about Shasta's earlier post suspicious. Both have since ended up dead. He also voted for Aganzir.

If Agan is a wolf as some people seem to believe (myself included), she could have killed Gwath at Night because he was onto her furry ways. Starting my case against her now.

[Aganzir]

Sorry Mira but I think you're underestimating me - I wouldn't be so jumpy as a wolf that I'd kill someone because he voiced a little suspicion against me.

And the comment was not about Shasta's earlier post, it was about his behaviour in general and Gwath misinterpreted it. I have nothing to do with their deaths, either of their.

I hope your case is good and different from your Fea case - that is, objective.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think they killed him to sow confusion, hoping the Ranger would waste a protection on somebody important. The first part obviously worked. I hope the second part didn't.

Now here's what I'm thinking, now that I've napped: Agan is competent: her kind of slip is barely believable. She all but said she's a wolf. Why would she do that when it would be so easy to set up Izzy today? Why put the spotlight on herself?

So I'm thinking: they don't want to get Izzy killed.

What if Izzy is more important than Aganzir to the pack? I can't see Agan taking one for the team on purpose unless it's for a big win. She was suspected, but not pinned. Why thrust herself into almost certain death?

I think Izzy might be the Big Bad Wolf and the wolves would rather keep their chance at Red Cap alive than keep Aganzir around. Since Agan was already suspected, she would make a good lynch candidate.

They can try to salvage Izzy's mess up at the end of yesterday by deflecting the attention to Agan.

If the village is confident about one wolf and confused about another, wouldn't they assuredly vote for the one?

[Mirandir]

#18
Begins game by calling everyone "bunnies." Last I checked, wolves eat rabbits.

Speculates on the importance of some of the roles.

#28
Plays with nicknames and banters.

#47
Likes McC, Laddie, Mith, and Lommy.
Dislikes Boro and phantom.
Speculates about the importance of the Lovers.

#80
Eeew beer.
Finds Lommy and Boro's first posts odd, but dismisses it as Day 1.
Disapproves of Shasta's ordo reveal on grounds that it makes it easier for BBW to find LRC.

#87
Responds to wilwa's comment about LRC

#99
Informs Kath and she and Lommy fight a lot.
Responds to Kath's question of why she is leaving Boro and phantom alone despite not liking them.

#131
Gets annoyed that people want to lynch Boro.
Questions if Gwath and Fea's suspcions about Boro trying to set Mira up are serious.
Says would rather kill phantom than Boro but won't vote for either today.
Doesn't know who to vote for yet.

#148
Responds to a lot of things Lommy said.
Doesn't like the Boro votes because they lack real reasoning.
Finds Lommy's response to Boro setting Mira up suspicious and cobbler-esque.
Is not "overly fond" of Greenie as she is "aggressive and grasping at straws at the same time" but also admits that tends to be suspicious because of previous games.

#162
Responds to a lot of things Boro said.

Personally I tend to be a very honest wolf - just because people don't think a wolf would do this or that. And therefore I have a hard time thinking a wolf could not be brutally honest.

Speculates on Hansel and Gretel.

#171
Responds to Lommy about Mith's suspicion of Shasta.
Says would vote for Shasta, but prefers Greenie.

#187
Votes Shasta over Boro or Nienna because of LRC factor.

#189
Vote count

#244
Speculates at to why Lommy was killed. Didn't see her as a threat.
Thinks the wolves would want to dispose of as many gifteds as possible early on because there are so many of them.

#247

How come so many people seem to be under the impression the wolves must attack Reddie in order to convert her? Correct a poor non-native speaker if she's wrong but to me that "along with the baddies kill choice" looks pretty much like they send two names every night.

A wolf would certainly know the specifics of exactly what must be done to turn LRC.

#263
Is confused by Mith.

#314
Makes massive list.
Guilty: Gwath, Izzy, Greenie, Lari, sally, Fea, Mira

Gwath and Izzy are both gifted so she could have been hiding her real suspicions in with a mate or two or hers.

Innocent: Inziladun, Eomer, Kath
Neither: Mith, Cab, Gaurcrist, Nerwen, Shasta, Boro, phantom

#331
Vote count

#338
Doesn't think Boro and Mith are honest, but doesn't find them suspicious.

#340
Votes Izzy. Doesn't want Boro or Mith to die but doesn't offer reason why

#383
Doesn't like Lari's vote.
Speculates about Lovers.

At this point I must take a break. My brain has stopped processing correctly. More to come later.

[Aganzir]

Has it perchance occurred to anyone that if I was indeed a wolf and had killed Gwath, I would so not be here when the day starts, shouting "Maybe they thought he was the seer!"?

If I was a wolf, would I kill someone whose death points to me when all I had to do would be to survive a couple of days?

If I killed someone whose death points to me, would I suggest he might have been considered the seer when all I had to do would be to survive a couple of days?

Go figure.

[Gaurcrist]

Gaurcrist has obviously been seriously affected by the phantom; either that, or it's an intricate ruse cooked up by the both of them.

Hahahahahahahaha! Like either of those would happen.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Has it perchance occurred to anyone that if I was indeed a wolf and had killed Gwath, I would so not be here when the day starts, shouting "Maybe they thought he was the seer!"?

If I was a wolf, would I kill someone whose death points to me when all I had to do would be to survive a couple of days?

If I killed someone whose death points to me, would I suggest he might have been considered the seer when all I had to do would be to survive a couple of days?

Go figure.

Yes, actually, I think you would. Want to know why? Because I know you're a wolf. Want to know how? Because I'm the seer.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Agan is competent: her kind of slip is barely believable. She all but said she's a wolf.

I still don't understand that. Care to explain?

Originally Posted by Fea

They can try to salvage Izzy's mess up at the end of yesterday by deflecting the attention to Agan.

That's what they're doing in any case.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Gwath and Izzy are both gifted so she could have been hiding her real suspicions in with a mate or two or hers.

Since when has Izzy been a gifted?