Were there Ents in areas not covered by LOTR?

[Noxomanus]

I really wonder wether there were,besides the Ents in the areas covered by LOTR, Ents in places that are beyond the borders of north-west Middle Earth.Rainforests in the South or other forests in Asia would seem suitable,so maybe Ents inhabited them? Or could Yavanna have had Ents in her service in Valinor,or other parts of Aman? I hope to think so,because i can't stomach the Ents completely disappearing.......it would be a very sad and griefing thought,eventhough Tolkien seems to have accepted that as the reality of his world.

[Mornie Alantie]

I think there was a profecy that the ents and entwives go into Valinor over a bridge or something, also the Entwives most probably live a little North of the shire. Reason being is when Sam is at the tavern in the bigging of LOTR he describes that his cousin or whoever saw a walking tree. Also the ent forest used to be all over ME including Beleriand before the changing of the world.

[Meoshi]

I would guess that every large forest would have at least a few ents. But besides Fangorn, no large populations. (Perhaps some other small populations did not have the problem of the disappearing Entwives!)

[Child of the 7th Age]

This is in regard to Entwives.

Tolkien does tell us this in his Letters. He doubts the Entwives survived. They were probably killed off by Sauron. But if they did manage to survive, he tells us they would be in the far east and south, probably employed as slaves on large plantations.

sharon

[Manwe Sulimo]

Well, there were Ents in Beleriand, but nobody can know about anywhere else, since there weren't any stories about the South and the East.

Maybe the Ents there joined Alatar and Pallando's "cults"...heh heh.

[Birdland]

But if they (Entwives) did manage to survive, he tells us they would be in the far east and south, probably employed as slaves on large plantations.

O.K. It's Tolkien's "baby", and I shouldn't quibble. But I have to ask after reading what the Ents did to Orthanc: How does one go about enslaving an angry 30-foot walking tree?

[obloquy]

Treebeard was not quite half that tall.

[ April 11, 2003: Message edited by: obloquy ]

[Birdland]

OK, an angry, 15-foot tall talking tree, then. Judging by the feats of the Ents, I'd say those Ent-wives were some tough cookies. I'd probably be possible to kill them, but how on earth would you "enslave" them?

[Iarhen]

Oh... not only physical enslavery is possible... probaly Sauron used his will to dominate them... heck, if not even a maia such as Saruman was able to resist him, how could an Ent resist him?

Remember Saruman's wise words in FOTR movie: "You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron?There are NONE who can."

[Durelin]

Actually, I believe Ents can easily just ignore Sauron, as they ignore the rest of the world (usually, until Merry and Pippin come along), because they are natural parts of the earth, basically plants! They sre so connected with the earth that they can't be controlled. It's hard to explain. Do you know what I mean? They don't care that much either way as long as plants live. Anyway, it's just my opinion on the matter.

[Noxomanus]

We are losing the subject here,it's basically that I wonder if the Fangorn Ents could realistically be the only ones remaining.I really don't think so,I mean it's really possible there are Ents further south or east then Harad or Khand. Wouldn't ik be likely Ents awakened all over Arda?When considering the Entwives,Tolkien probably only spoke about the ones inhabiting the Brown Lands and not those of entire Arda!

[Mornie Alantie]

The Only "Trees" that were awakened into ents were awakened by the elves. Thats how they came alive basically. But for sure, there are either ents or entwives above the Shire. Reason being is that in the Green Dragon Sam is telling Ted and other hobbits of how his cousin saw a 15' Elm or something walking. Now doesn't that sound like an Ent?

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Well, I like to think that the entwives went north, even past the Shire. I agree with some of you on that, and having a hoobit see a walking tree makes it more believeable. but what about the Old Forest? Remember that our four hobbits of the fellowship had seemed to be aware that the pathways were changing, and that the tree's looked angry. I think it's pretty obvious that the tree's were moving around of course, therefore the path would change or disappear. Does it say anything about the Old Forest in the letters?
Well, anyways I think that maybe these were the entwives but just grouchy or something. And if they weren't (I have a feeling they weren't for some reason) the entwives, then I have another theory about it.

How does one go about enslaving an angry 30-foot walking tree?

I do think it is possible to enslave an ent by dominating them, like Iarhen. But there are other ways too, like under the threat of torture and pain, and possibly even death. Didn't it say somewhere that Sauron was a pyromaniac? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Oh, and Iarhen, please don't get angry at me for saying this, I do not mean offence at all. We can't really use a line from teh movie here unless it was in the book, since the movie is just someone's (PJ's and co.) interpetation of the book. Lines from the movie that aren't in the book are not true, because they aren't in the book.

Durelin: I think I see what you're saying. The ents were isolated (because they wanted to be) from the rest of Middle-earth. They didn't give a fiddler's fart about the politics and current events of Middle-earth, until Merry and Pippin came along.

If that's what you're saying, well, remember, the entwives could have gone travelling south and might have passsed near Sauron and Mordor. If so, then it won't matter if the entwives ignore Sauron or not, Sauron will still try to enslave them. He might be able to dominate their minds, and if that doesn't work then he'll threaten them with torture or death. I don't think the entwives will be ignoring Sauron ofter that, since I'm sure that they did value their leafy lives. But if they did continue to ignore, then Sauron of course would torture them or kill them, until they obeyed him, which is what Sauron wanted of course (to dominate and enslave happy folk).

[the guy who be short]

didnt JRRT hint that the olog hai were created by warping entwives, like orcs from elves? becaause the olog hai came about at the same time the entwives disappeared, and they could walk in sunlight.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Grounds Keeper Willie,

Couldn't the behavior in the Old Forest that you're describing be the Huorn rather than the Ents or Entwives? Especially if the Ents/Entwives weren't there to shepherd them, the huorn's behavior might have turned bad

Does it say anything about the Old Forest in the letters?

The only references I found in Letters to the Old Forest were these. Letter 212 makes a brief reference to "Trees may 'go bad' as in the Old Forest."

In Letter 339, weitten to the newspaper the Daily Telelgraph, Tolkien says this:

The Old Forest was hostile to two legged creatures because of the memory of many injuries.

Those are the only references I could find on the Old Forest.

sharon

[ April 13, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Afrodal Fenyar]

By the way, about enslaving that 30-foot tall walking tree. They were entwives that supposedly were enslaved. They weren't like that, I think, but more like flowers. So maybe enslaving and 20-foot tall walking flower(imagine it [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]) would be closer?

Ok, this has really nothing to do with the subject..

[Novhloke]

I do not think its possible to enslave a 17 foot Ent that is stronger than a troll, mentaly and physically, it seems possible, but it would be very hard.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Thanks Child of the 7th Age. It does make more sense that it was the Huorn.

Well, now I can't remeber what my other theory was. I tried reading over the thread a couple times hoping to remember but it didn't work. I'll keep thinking about it though.

[Voralphion]

The Only "Trees" that were awakened into ents were awakened by the elves.

The elves didn't awaken trees into ents. Ents awoke at about the same time as the elves, they were created by Eru for Yavanna to protect the trees from the children. This can be found in the Silmarillion in the chapter 'Of Aule and Yavanna.'

[Son of Fire]

I hink that JRRT robably had a plan for after the war of the rings for the ents and entwives, but never quite made it to writing it before he died. Anyway, there is that sighting by Sam's cousin of the walking elm tree and stuff, but the olog hai does not seem to fit as they were stone, not tree.

[Meneltarmacil]

One place that nobody seems to have mentioned is Mirkwood. Gandalf calls it "the greatest of the forests of the northern world" and it is indeed a very ancient forest, almost untouched by much of ME history. Bilbo noted that there were several strange noises he could never identify. Those could perhaps be the sounds of the trees/Ents/Huorns/whatever shifting about. Now that makes me think that there are a couple Ents living there, but probably only in the northern part (not that close to Dol Guldur)

[Noxomanus]

Mirkwood seems very likely indeed.I guess there might have been Ents in some areas in mountain ranges in ME.Also,beyond the northwest of ME they presumably existed in the eastern and southern areas as well in for example rainforests.Would the African Ents have looked like giant jungletrees or maybe palms or treeferns?

[Finwe]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were Huorns near Dol Guldur, because Sauron's proximity would have attracted all evil, black-hearted beings to that place. He could have also used them as spies. After all, no one expects a tree to have eyes.

[FingolfintheBold]

Ha! I had a funny mental picture of an entish mallorn somewhere in Lorien. Very unlikley, but it seems like it would be a good place for an ent to camp...