Tolkien's 'Machine' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 11-30-2002, 08:36 AM

I wanted to get some help on one of Tolkien's central concepts - the 'machine'.
In both the long interview with Christopher Tolkien on the VHS JRRT- A Portrait of JRR Tolkien, & in Carpenter's book, The Inklings, there's a mention of Tolkien's conception of the 'machine'. It seems to be less technology itself, & more the attitude/mentality behind it. Christopher Tolkien descibes it as the desire to control/coerce others, to impose our will on others/the world & force it to do as we say. Therefore he describes both magic as such & the Ring in particular, as manifestations of the 'machine'.
Does this mean then, that for Tolkien, the 'machine' isn't necesserally anything to do with machinery, or technology - ie as long as the desire to control is present then it is still the 'machine' behind it. Or does the 'machine' in Tolkien's conception have to involve machinery/technology in some form - ie, a 'man-made' object (including magic rings).
If I coerce someone into doing something with the threat of violence, for instance, or intimidate them with my intellect, is that the 'machine' as Tolkien concieved it?
Have I made any sense here?

11-30-2002, 08:36 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Tolkien's 'Machine' I wanted to get some help on one of Tolkien's central concepts - the 'machine'. In both the long interview with Christopher Tolkien on the VHS JRRT- A Portrait of JRR Tolkien, & in Carpenter's book, The Inklings, there's a mention of Tolkien's conception of the 'machine'. It seems to be less technology itself, & more the attitude/mentality behind it. Christopher Tolkien descibes it as the desire to control/coerce others, to impose our will on others/the world & force it to do as we say. Therefore he describes both magic as such & the Ring in particular, as manifestations of the 'machine'. Does this mean then, that for Tolkien, the 'machine' isn't necesserally anything to do with machinery, or technology - ie as long as the desire to control is present then it is still the 'machine' behind it. Or does the 'machine' in Tolkien's conception have to involve machinery/technology in some form - ie, a 'man-made' object (including magic rings). If I coerce someone into doing something with the threat of violence, for instance, or intimidate them with my intellect, is that the 'machine' as Tolkien concieved it? Have I made any sense here? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."