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Old 09-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #161
Nogrod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
have you been drinking or are you a wolf? You're just being way too aggressive to be a thoughtful innocent and it's kind of annoying me - because I quite clearly did say that I think the plan is too risky and it's a part of the reason why I don't like it. You even talked about me saying that. And now you're claiming I didn't say that. It doesn't make any sense.
Me, aggressive? Like you hadn't seen me being aggressive like years ago?

Sorry Lommy, a bad point. I said I suspected you because you made your best to discredit the 0plan and took both views to hammer your point in. You said it was risky, yes, but you also said it was unfair to the wolves...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...
Not necessarily - unless Eönwë says something definite in the narrations, our ranger may just have made a save. But that's a very good point and it makes guard-voting possible wolves [(even) more] sensible.
What are you thinking about in here? Not necessarily? Why not? If we protect as a village someone and there are two kills then that one must be innocent. What are you thinking?

Okay tell that t6oMorrow, now we need to make decisions for toDay...
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #162
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Oh sorry Nienna that just proves you're in my no idea category I guess...

edit: xed and would like to argue but not now
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:55 PM   #163
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5 minutes to DL, so let's get this over with.

++Kitanna
More faute de mieux than anything else.
++Guard Boro
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #164
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Well that's interesting....


Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog
Cabbie-->Wilwa (2)
Hakon-->Legate
Pitchie-->Kit

Still left to vote: Legate, Sally, Wilwa, Alona, Lommie, Nienna, Nessa, Nog


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)
Nienna-->Mnemo (2)
Hakon-->Boro (2)
Pitchie-->Boro (3)

Still to vote: Legate, Wilwa, Alona, Lommie, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp


Lots of people left to vote.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #165
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Of the ones who have got votes this far it's be Kit or Nog for me... but the problem is that I can see myself being tricked to suspect either of them as innocent very easily...

++guard Legate

for simply wanting to know his role and because everybody seems to agree anyway so why not do it.

Nog, the explanation for the "not necessarily" is in the same sentence - not sure how did you miss that.

edit: xed with people
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #166
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Okay, so:

I am quite comfortable with being guarded, at least now, if it proves my innocence, for example (or if the Wolves want to bluff and save one kill, that's as good as that, but I doubt them trying that). Anyway, so I vote in this way and let's see:

++Lommy

And as for... hmm... well what, wilwa or Kitanna? Okay, hmm, both are sort of bandwagons, so who knows what good may come out of them...

Ah okay. Nah, let's see if it's a competition.

++wilwa
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #167
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++Zil
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:58 PM   #168
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and p.s. Sally, Boro now has 4 guard votes.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:59 PM   #169
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Alright, have to say I didn't read to indepth, cause I was scared of missing the DL, which is in 5 minutes, right? I hope I'm not rushing for nothing.

So I'm tempted to vote for Mnemo just cause A: she didn't give to much of a reason, and B: basically everything I said so far was about the idea she came up with. But I probably won't, cause I don't like adding other people into the mix.

So I really really hate doing this, cause I didn't have the chance to read her posts as much as I would have liked, but I have to vote to try to save myself:

++Kitanna

And since Legate is so awesome:

++ Guard Legate
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:00 PM   #170
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Thanks for the "guard Legate" Lommy.

That's the way to find him out.

Okay, time's out...

++ Greenie
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:00 PM   #171
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++Kitanna

I don't see what's so suspicious about wilwa.

xed probably
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:00 PM   #172
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++Kit
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:01 PM   #173
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:02 PM   #174
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Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn
Boro-->Kit (2)
Dun-->Kit (3)
Greenie-->Nog
Cabbie-->Wilwa (2)
Hakon-->Legate
Pitchie-->Kit (4)
Legate-->Wilwa (3)
Nienna-->Dun
Nog-->Greenie
Lommie-->Kit (5)
Sally-->Kit (6)


Didn't vote: Alona, Nessa


Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)
Boro-->Nienna
Dun-->Boro (2)
Nog-->Legate (4)
Greenie-->Nienna (2)
Nienna-->Mnemo (2)
Hakon-->Boro (3)
Pitchie-->Boro (4)
Lommie-->Legate (5)
Legate-->Lommie
Wilwa-->Legate (6)

Didn't vote: Alona, Nessa, Cabbie, Nilp


EDIT: thanks for the correction, Nienna
EDIT #2: x'd with Steve, obviously
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Old 09-01-2009, 04:07 PM   #175
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It had been quite a fierce day.

Eönwë had thought that it would be like the normal meetings, where people just spent the first half of the day talking amongst themselves. So it had come as a bit of a shock when Miss Syne blurted out:

"So let's just joint guard the seer!"

But others were less ready to join this.

"It's too good to be true!" shouted Wilwarin.

"And will somebody please think of the innocents!" Kitanna complained.

And as the discussion shifted to such important topics such as who had the most effective wiles, Inziladun came to the square trying to offer people a pint, but he was just ignored, and left to drink on his own.

Nilpaurion appeared out of nowhere, and hopped around in a jig while shouting "Kill me! Kill me!" before, making a sign with the word "WOLF" on it in big red letters.

Legate was no better, trying to take money from the innocent bystanders.

The whole day was spent debating this hot issue.

Many said it would be advantageous, and others said it would be unfair.

"What are you talking about!" protested Boromir. "It's not like the wolves are giving us a chance."

And so the talk switched to who could be wolves and who it would be better to guard.

After many attacks by everyone, and a patricidal attack by Greenie on Nogrod, who was launching fierce verbal assaults on anyone he suspected, it was decided the it would be Kitanna who would be executed by the villagers. Hakon stuck his head out of the shadows and shouted "Kill Legate!" and then just left again. After a few seconds everyone just went back to what they were doing before and forgot that it even happened.

As for who was going to be saved, the votes were equal between Boromir and Legate, when Lómien shouted "We all want to know what Legate is, so let's have him guarded!" and everyone agreed.

They took Kitanna to the gallows. "If she really is a wolf," started Eönwë, "then she'll turn into one upon her death."

And as had the noose put around her neck, she started sobbing. "But... but I'm the seer. How could you do this to me?" she whispered to the executioner. But would did not listen, and emotionlessly, he removed the platform from under her feet. And so, Kitanna was hanged, first of the village.

All the villagers watched with baited breath, but as the life extinguished from her eyes, all fell silent. Nothing had happened. They were hoping for something, anything, to show that she was a wolf, but when she was taken down it could be seen that she was just a normal human.

Her house in the wilderness was searched, and a sullen-faced villager came out holding something round-shaped in his hands, wrapped in a cloth. It was a crystal ball. "I'm sorry to tell you this," he said to the onlooking village, "but Kitanna was our Seer, the only one who could tell for certain who was a wolf and who wasn't. And now we've killed her."

The spirits of the village lowered, and as the villagers walked back, it started raining. Sullenly, they stood outside Legate's house, watching the two Night Guards taking their place outside, looking powerful and terrible in the twilight.

Living:
A Little Green- the village butcher
alonariel- the village blacksmith
Boromir88- the village pig farmer
Brinniel- the village witch
Hakon- the village innkeeper
Inziladun- the village brewer
Legate of Amon Lanc- the village broker
McCaber- chief (only) miner, head of miners' guild
Mnemosyne- the village coquette
Nerwen- a wandering minstrel
Nessa Telrunya- the village seamstress
Nienna- the village potter
Nilpaurion Felagund- the village fool
Nogrod- the retired bourgeois
Pitchwife- the village mason
satansaloser2005- The village librarian (Mistress of the books)
Shastanis Althreduin- the village apothecary
Thinlómien- the village chief gardener
wilwarin538- the village barmaid

The Dead
Kitanna- the village hermit - Seer
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:00 PM   #176
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Night 2

It was the night, and the shadows flitted through the streets, darker than the rest of the darkness.

Some dark, indiscernible forms prowled among the streets, and dread reached those even in their houses as the shadows crept by.

The rain was heavy, and pounding on the windows, keeping one villager in particular awake. Mnemo "Ooh La La" Syne, as she was known, could not sleep. She lay there in her bed, but a darkness filled her heart. And with not so much as a rustle, an indiscernible number of tall dark figures assembled before her.

"Now, when I heard that there'd be wolves, I hadn't heard that they'd be so tall and dark," she said, looking at them, their forms and shadows moving and changing shape in the darkness.

One stepped forwards. "Spare your sweet talk, girl." he said, with a menacing expression upon his terrible face.

"My, my, you are a handsome wolf." said Miss Ooh La La Syne.

The wolf stood for a second, startled. Then he leaned forwards, his rank breath steaming in the midnight air. His red eyes glared at hers.

"What large eyes you have." observed Mnemo.

"All the better to see you with." said the wolf.

"What large paws you have." said the village coquette.

"All the better to reach for you with." replied the wolf, with an evil grin spreading across his face.

"What large teeth you have." said Miss Syne.

"All the better to-" the wolf stopped mid-sentence, and all the Mnemo could see was a flash of yellow before he sunk his teeth into her neck.

Mnemo Syne was "Ooh La La" no more.

---

It was morning, and Eönwë stood in his usual position. He addressed the people.

"It is good to see you all this morning- but wait, we seem to be missing someone. Where is Miss Mnemo Syne? Has anyone seen her?"

People looked around, but she was not among them. Her house was searched, but she was not there. There was only a trail of now dried blood leading to the village square, and ending right in the centre. The people standing there looked about at each other nervously.

That day the village was searched, but her body was never found.

Eönwë looked at all the expectant faces staring at him. "I am sorry to say that we must conclude that Mnemo Syne has been the first victim of the vicious attacks of the Werewolves.

"But something else is bothering me. What could be the reason for there only being one attack last night?"


Living:
A Little Green- the village butcher
alonariel- the village blacksmith
Boromir88- the village pig farmer
Brinniel- the village witch
Hakon- the village innkeeper
Inziladun- the village brewer
Legate of Amon Lanc- the village broker
McCaber- chief (only) miner, head of miners' guild
Nerwen- a wandering minstrel
Nessa Telrunya- the village seamstress
Nienna- the village potter
Nilpaurion Felagund- the village fool
Nogrod- the retired bourgeois
Pitchwife- the village mason
satansaloser2005- The village librarian (Mistress of the books)
Shastanis Althreduin- the village apothecary
Thinlómien- the village chief gardener
wilwarin538- the village barmaid

The Dead
Kitanna- the village hermit - Seer
Mnemosyne- the village coquette - Innocent


Day 2 has begun. You may start posting now.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:04 PM   #177
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Told ya so. Just sayin'. (In regards to my poor dead duckling, that is.)

I'm going out in a bit but think it is interesting that there was only one kill. Of course it could be that Legate's a wolf (LYNCH!) or the wolves could be trying to frame him. But I think the former may be more likely because you would think the wolves would want to get two kills in whenever possible. And besides, if we decided Legate was innocent they could always kill him toMorrow Night or something. So....I don't know. I'm too hungry to think. Back after supper.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:16 PM   #178
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(like the Little Red references Eonwe, made me reminisce about my game, love that story!)

Hmm, well that's interesting. I'm surprised they chose Mnemo, I figured they'd pick someone a bit more under the reindeer, which is what usually happens.

So......I have to say I`m extremely dissapointed, we were given this amazing oppurtunity to get atleast 3 dreams known out of the Seer, and now we have nothing. I honestly wish the plan that Mnemo brought out had been more highly considered.

Anyway, I've been putting together a little summury of everyone from yesterDay, so I'll post that up soon.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:17 PM   #179
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Either my gut feeling about Legate being a wolf was right or the wolves are trying to trick us. I hope it is that Legate is just a wolf.
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:26 PM   #180
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Silmaril

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakon View Post
Either my gut feeling about Legate being a wolf was right or the wolves are trying to trick us. I hope it is that Legate is just a wolf.
I don't get this. Hakon, you need more reasons then just "gut feeling", please.



So my list, I have included the dead (underlined), and as I got later into the day I started skimming more and writting less, but I have basically everything important that was said. If I missed something, or misquoted, or put something under the wrong person, or if you feel I misinterpreted what you said, then my apologies, I'm just trying to get my thoughts together.

Kitanna: #9: commented on Mnemo’s idea, said the wolves could manipulate it, #13: afraid for the innocents that would become vulnerable, scared of losing the Ranger too soon to make it worth it, #56/57: finds Mnemo a bit suspicious, but says a wolf would be unlikely to come up with such a plan, but a wolf might support such a plan…guards Hakon, votes Brinn (after reading all that, I get why she had been seen as suspicious)…personal opinion is that she had dreamt of Mnemo, cause it seems that she would point out things about Mnemo that were suspicious, but then defend them right after, so I’m gonna read her posts through more thoroughly later, like possibly in the morning when I have far more time

Greenie: #36: aswell didn’t like Mnemo’s idea, was worried about Mnemo, next few posts were banter with Nilp,#95: doesn’t like Nog’s suspicion of Lommy, #99: ok with people voting for those who don’t participate, #120: Nog still “rubs her the wrong way”….votes Nogrod, guards Nienna

Alona: zip

Boro: #4: Nogrod’s here? and a pig, #18: bacon, and French, #26: says he kinda suspects Inzil (couldn’t tell if this was real suspicion or just early Day 1 banter), #67: isn’t overly worried about Mnemo, doesn’t think the plan is that bad, should be left when wolves have only 1 kill, #86: doesn’t find Mnemo as that suspicious, #97: makes a list of various reactions to Mnemo’s plan, #122, continues this. #118: doesn’t get why Legate’s been chosen to be protected…votes Kit, guards Nienna

Brinn: #31: surprised at so few posts, #83: also wants to hold the plan for later….votes McCaber, guards Legate

Hakon: votes Legate, guards Boro, no real reason (“gut feelings”), no big surprise

Inziladun: #22: didn’t really like Mnemo’s idea either, #25: Nilp’s self vote befuddled him for a moment, #74: thinks people should discuss who to guard, suggests Nerwen….guards Boro, votes Kit

Legate: #33: looonng post, some gaming banter, thinks Mnemo’s idea is OK in itself, mistakenly thinks the Ranger would have to reveal, leaves it up to Seer but thinks it should be left til she has good info, #50: said that my comment about not wanting to put it off too long is unlikely because the Seer usually reveals early, doesn’t want plan to go through today, afraid for possible counter reveals, #53: offers to find me a husband, #61: agrees with Lommy about the unfairness of it all, thinks Mnemo could be a cobbler (didn’t realise there was no such role), feels good about Nerwen, doesn’t about me because of my “continuous pursuit” of the idea, #75: big list, uneasy with: Boro, me, OK with: Mnemo, Nerwen, Lommy, #78: doesn’t want plan to be done now, wants to wait til Seer has wolf, wants to find Noggy a wife (perhaps him and I should just pair up, haha ) #84: mentions about Pitch’s observation about protecting a wolf, how the protections could reveal innocents/wolves for us….guards Lommy, votes me

McCaber: #111: said “Although we shouldn't be hasty to lynch someone we protected if there's only one kill. That seems to be a very easy way for the pack to manipulate the village. Granted, it would only work one time at most, but it could still backfire horribly.”….votes me, which I want a better explanation for, because this: “for silly discussion on the previous pages that could have an adverse effect to the village's safety” isn’t good enough, since it was Mnemo’s idea and I simply agreed, so why me and not her??

Mnemo: #5: brings up controversial idea, #11: goes further into the idea, says how we could guard back/forth with Ranger, #14: says how the Seer would only reveal Wolves, aslong as the Ranger was still around, #17: didn’t like that I said we were of similar minds, #73: defends the plan, doesn’t like that Lommy said she didn’t want people discussing it, yet she kept discussing it, thinks the plan should be done as soon as possible, #79: thinks saying her plan is too easy is silly, wants to guard either Nog, Legate or Boro… votes me, guards Boro (I may look at her posts more closely late on, like the morning, if I have time and if it hasn't been done by someone else)

Nerwen:#30; sang a song, #34: thought Mnemo’s idea was too much of a risk right now, it should be held off for a few days, #49: says it should be held off til the Seer has a wolf….vote Kit, guard Legate

Nessa: zip

Nienna: #28: doesn’t like Mnemo’s idea either, says it should be held off for a few days, #92: also likes Pitch’s point about the guarding #94: also like’s Pitch’s suggestion, #121: says she may vote to guard Mnemo to get a better idea about the reasons behind her plan…guard Mnemo, votes Inzil

Nilp: #24: self vote (surprise surprise), #35: clarifies for Legate that Ranger would not have to reveal, next few posts are banter with Greenie, #59, makes his wolf sign, #63: disagrees with the unfairness thing said by Leg and Lom….votes himself

Nogrod: #72: thinks through the plan very logically and seems to be OK with the idea (thank you!), talks about what to do if there were competing claims, #87: calls Lommy a flip-flopper, doesn’t like the talk of unfairness, thinks Brinn looks good, #108: doesn’t like Legate’s negative opinion of “the plan”, feels weird about Lommy aswell, #119: made a nice little outline of the plan, I have to say that I appreciate how he always kept an open mind about it, #132: talks about why Legate bothers him, #142: doesn’t like Kit bandwaggon , #146: suspicious: Legate, Lommy, Greenie, innocent: Mnemo, Pitch, Brinn, Boro, Shasta, rest are unsure, ….guards Legate, which I initially found odd because he suspects him, but realised it was logical since he wants to test out how it effects the Night kills….guards Legate, votes Greenie

Pitch: #70: didn’t want to suspect someone just for coming up with a controversial idea, thought the Seer should only come forward if at risk of lynching or if they have a wolf,#81: mentions how if we guard a wolf there will only be 1 kill (which brings in lots of discussion later on), #100: doesn’t like voting for those who have not contributed on Day 1, #104: wants Legate to clarify why he finds Nerwen and Lommy to be logical guard choices, says he’s an ordo, #107: wants to guard Boro, Nog or Mnemo, feels a bit weird about Leggy, not sure about me, #113: wanted Nog to clarify his opinion of Legate, #134: says this, which I like a lot “The only, and crucial, difference with this game is that we have a chance to minimize (or at least reduce) the danger to our gifteds in a way that many other villages could only dream of.”, #145: confused about Lommy……votes Kit, guards Boro

Sally: #29: loves Nilp, #69: didn’t think Mnemo’s suggestion was evil, but thinks it’s cheap and too good to be true, wants gifteds to stay hidden, #77: wants to do things the “old-fashioned way”, doesn’t think it’s good to do the plan now, wants to put it off, #90: says something about seeing one of my posts and thought I was something specific (didn’t say which post, which I’d appreciate from her, cause I don’t know what’s she’s talking about), likes Pitch’s point about the guarding, ...guards Mnemo, votes me #115: looks into Kit’s guard for Hakon, doesn’t like it (I understand that), #144: me and Kit are her top suspects still (still hasn't given to much reasoning for the suspicion for me, just that one of my posts popped out at her)….votes Kit, guards Mnemo

Shasta: #105: thinks Leg and Lom look odd, doesn’t like Mnemo’s lack of vote explanation, likes the plan and would have been good with doing it Day 1…votes Lommy, guard Legate

Lommy: #58: really doesn’t like the idea, thinks it’s unfair to the wolves (which I think is ridiculous because it clearly followed the rules), doesn’t get why people keep talking about it, then keeps talking about it, doesn’t think Mnemo is wolfish, doesn’t like random votes and the fact that Kit said she would make one, #147: defends herself to Nog, reiterates her previous opinions, #151: really unsure about Nog now, #156: list, feels worse about Nog, Shasta and Kit, #160: calls Legate’s plan, of guarding someone who we want as a known innocent, “a bit unfair” and that there is probably a hole in the tactic, so Lommy officially doesn’t like plans …..guards Legate, votes Kit

So that's that. I will ponder all of this, and hopefully find some interesting posts when I finally put this up. I'll make a little list of my overall feelings for everyone a bit later tonight, when I (hopefully) have some present day info to go on.

Oh, and just cause the Seer and the Ranger were both mentioned oh so much yesterDay i just want to say: hunter, we love you!

I shall be around randomly for the next few hours, then will be back for a loooonnng time in the morning, cause I have nothing else to do. Plus I will be here for the last few hours before DL. This time is just perfect for me.

EDIT: hmmm, no crossposting, what a shame...
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:39 PM   #181
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Epic!Wilwa post is epic.

And Hakon, once again, isn't saying anything but "I feel this or that". Iiiinteresting.

In answer to your question(ish), Wilwa, it was just a hunch based on the tone of one of your posts. It tripped my radar but I suspected Kit based on more than I thought I had on you, so I didn't feel comfortable voting you. Shame, really, considering how it turned out.

The hunter feels loved now, I'm sure. And a nice list overall. Thanks for the SparkNotes!


Heading out soon and won't be back for a few hours, so basically toDay will be slow for me until Evening, more or less. Busy day tomorrow as well, alas. I'll look at Kit's posts before bed (hopefully) and see what I can find; I'm not sure about Wilwa's theory about Mnemo being her dream, but I'll look into it. Until later!
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:56 PM   #182
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Haha, thank you Sally! *bows* I like epicness!

Have to go now for a bit, but then I'll be back and will look over Kit and Mnemo's posts more closely, so you can expect that from me within the next hour.
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Old 09-02-2009, 05:57 PM   #183
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Dear Village,

Slight fail on the lynching of our Seer. You are, however, redeemed in that we quite possibly have found us a wolf.

Love,
Me

Ok so I think it is worth lynching Legate on the very possible chance that he is a wolf. Many people voted to guard him yesterday because he was being somewhat suspicious. We also need to keep the kills down to one now that we have lost our seer so lynching a wolf will be in our best interest.

Twice the voting to be analyzed now.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:13 PM   #184
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Unbelievable, the seer gone again in Day 1? This is a joke, isn't it? Hopefully one of the hidden roles was a seer.

Quote:
Ok so I think it is worth lynching Legate on the very possible chance that he is a wolf.~Nienna
I'd say it would be pretty stupid not to do it, but we shouldn't just vote and attend our other business. We have to make every day a productive day now.

I'm watching McCaber who pointed out the wolves may want to fake us out and only chose one kill, so we lynch the person we guarded the day before. Interesting theory, but most peculiar that McCaber points this out yesterday, Legate is guarded, and we awake with only one death.

For now too I feel good about Pitch who pointed out something in the rules that I overlooked. Usually that's a pretty good judge of someone's innocence, even though if wolves will read rules too, I doubt they would point out something like that which would only hurt them.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:22 PM   #185
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So didn't actually have to go anywhere quite yet (had my times wrong by a bit), so here are all of our Seer's posts, and my personal commentary, aswell as some boldings I've made in the quotes:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
I suppose I need to abandon my hermit lifestyle for a while. *sigh*

(Mnemo quote was here, about her plan)

This seems like an ok idea, but eventually, probably sooner than later, the wolves can manipulate this. How do you plan to organize such an undertaking?

Edit: Eonwe clarified the rules...
Didn't seem too comfortable with the idea, but seemed willing to discuss it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
This may seem like a good idea, but think about the innocents who will undoubtedly be put on the line. If the seer reveals him/herself and then reveals his/her dreams every day innocents will be revealed to the village, making them easy targets for wolves at Night.

And what if something happens to the ranger early on? Then we have the seer for two days and then it's curtains. If that happens early on, the village will have to go on without the aid of the seer's dreams. Plus by that point a few innocents will be vulnerable.
I understand her concerns here, but don't really agree with them, but from a Seer's perspective I can see that this would make sense. No hints to a dream here though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
I see the topic of discussion remains on Mnemo and Wilwa's conversation regarding the seer revealing. That's not surprising. Though I had hoped for a little more discussion, maybe a big red flag pointing to one of the villagers, declaring him/her "WOLF" in big letters.

However, that hasn't happened and I need to vote in the next twenty minutes. I get off work right at the deadline and there is no guarantee I can make it home at lunch to contribute.

I'm going back to ponder, but I'm thinking the chances of a random vote today are likely.
Her "big red flag" comment here now really stands out to me. I think this pretty much tells us she had not dreamt of a wolf, since she was hoping someone would be "declared" a wolf, and then said it has not happened. This would also make sense since she was against "the plan", if she had found out a wolf she probably would have agreed to it a bit more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
I went back and read Mnemo and Wilwa's conversation (and all posts that responded early on to it). Since this is the highlight right now it seems like a logical place to look for baddies. However, time is short for me so I'll make a few points quick and come home on my lunch break to finish any thoughts.


Mnemo is quick to declare this route this easiest, life in WW is never easy though. It doesn't feel wolfish, not so early, but that doesn't absolve Mnemo.
In answering my query on the idea Mnemo states that the seer has the choice to reveal. Another innocent move, but makes me wonder about Mnemo. However, nothing Mnemo has said screams wolf to me. I want to watch Mnemo over the next few days, but I have a feeling a wolf wolf wouldn't make a suggestion for a reveal so early, but would rather encourage the idea and thrive on any and all confusion.

I will return in a few hours to make a quick statement about Wilwa's role with Mnemo's suggestion and then a vote.
See here how she kinda goes back and forth between finding her suspicious and then not? Could be that she didn't want to blatanly say she was innocent, but then also didn't want her to look too suspicious. I think she may have wanted to bring forward all reasons why someone may find Mnemo suspicious, and then state a defense for it, perhaps to sway people away from voting her. If Mnemo wasn't dead and Kit still was I would have read this and probably thought Mnemo innocent. That is all of course just my own speculation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
I don't have the time toDay to read everything I've missed. But my guard vote won't be totally random. I was going to vote to guard Mnemo, but since she stirred up a lot of discussion she doesn't seem a likely Night 2 kill. Rather I'd like to guard one of those who haven't spoken yet. These sorts are usually kills early on because they leave no trail for the villagers. So that leaves Hakon and alonariel as the only two who have yet to say anything.

++Guard Hakon

alonariel gave a reason for being absent, but Hakon has said nothing.
This is where people started finding her suspicious. It was a very odd move. The fact that she was thinking of guarding Mnemo sort of, at least to me, strengthens what I said about the previous quote.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna View Post
I have about seven minutes to get back to work.

I've been mulling over the thread, trying to find something/someone who jumps out.

Mnemo and Wilwa both jumped out initially, but neither one feels particularly wicked. Of other, more vocal players, no one has said anything of note that I find over whelming suspicious. The only things I've seen that worried me are Mnemo's vote for Wilwa, but I think that's probably a time constraint thing, and then there's Brinn's vote for McCaber. She stated her vote would be somewhat random, but it surprises me she would pick someone who hadn't yet posted.

But I'm down to the wire and have to vote now. I will be more active on Day 2 because work doesn't fall on the deadline that day.

++Brinn

Kinda random, I don't care that she voted randomly for McCaber. That's something I would do, but she gave a reason that "he wasn't contributing" and that doesn't seem right to me. Granted my own reasons for voting Brinn aren't much better. However, I am at a loss for a real suspect.
Despite the suspiciousness of Mnemo's vote, she doesn't want to vote for her, and instead votes for someone with a not-quite-as-suspicious vote.


So there they are, with my thoughts. I feel that Mnemo was the most likely dream choice, but of course I could be wrong. She seems to be the only one she really mentions a lot.

Have to head out for real now, will be back in about 45 minutes or less with all of the duck's posts.

EDIT: Xposted with Boro, and removed highlight from Kit's vote
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:45 PM   #186
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Here they are. I left out a few of the random banter ones from the beginning. But I'm pretty sure I got all the others, don't think I missed any. No commentary here from me, just wanted to make those available. I might come back to her though, if I have the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Right.

The easiest way I can see this going forward is if the Seer comes out so that we can vote to guard him/her each night. That way we'll get a virtually limitless supply of dreams so that we can track these foul beasts down and snuff them out.

Thank you for posting before me, Boro; people who post first with cunning plans are startling Day 1 lynch targets and I'd hate to put myself on the chopping block so early.

Not that anyone would want to lynch a face like this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Darn.

Take away all my fun from me, will you?

Unless we wanted to coordinate saves with the Ranger, which really is not a half bad idea when you think about it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
It's all up to the Seer and whether s/he wants to come out at this point.

Of course, likely a wolf has already thought of this and would reveal first and/or counterreveal. I don't know how we'd proceed then, unless we wanted to protect both (Ranger one and the village the other, then alternate).

But IF there were a way of knowing the Seer is real, then all we need is a simple majority of ++Guard votes. The wolves would probably be too willing to go along at this point. Next night everyone would vote according to his/her conscience and the Ranger would make the save.

My point is that normally when new and/or weird rules are introduced into the mix the wolves profit from the confusion that results.

But I think in this situation we've been handed a genuine boon, if we can learn how to use it properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
I did not say that the Seer should reveal his/her dreams each Day. That would be the equivalent of sending the Wolves a kill list. So, not unless we nab a wolf. In the meantime, though, if we have a protected Seer we do know that we will be getting dreams to our advantage, and if the Ranger dies then the Seer can reveal all of his/her dreams to the village. Hopefully at that point (depending on dream picks vs. kill picks) we would have enough Known Innocents to keep the wolves busy killing them off while we can focus on the unknowns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Okay, so...

First of all, what about the revealish plan is cheap? It follows the rules! The village should be more than glad to take all rules that give it an advantage and use them!

Second: Lommy, my dear, you are commenting on said plan. So don't complain about the fact that people are still talking about it. Fact is, people are filtering into this village one by one today and they may have thoughts about the matter that haven't been brought up yet.

I'm going to stir the pot a little bit more and suggest to you, Boro, that it is actually more important to start protecting Gifteds now rather than after the Wolves are down to only one kill, because the chances of someone whose special powers may mean the difference between survival and annihilation getting killed is especially high when there are two kills in place.

It looks as if (as I rather expected) no one wants to do this toDay, which is rather understandable. Since I will be busy for the last five hours of the Day I shall have to look over the thread thus far and cast my votes soonish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Nog, I like your style (i.e., keep 'em both alive).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Silly, the seer would not be handing us the game. Unless s/he caught a wolf we would still be left to our own consciences when voting, and the Ranger would not last forever under this plan. All it does is give the village a tactical advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Currently debating whether to guard Boro, Legate, or Nog. They're all reasonable people, though they're heckawolves, plus they make the day more interesting. I'd hate to lose any of them Night One, until I have more information (since information they will leave) to go off of.

I'm already 90% sure of my lynch pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Nice catch!

Wish I had time to discuss it more. Since I don't,

++Guard Boro

and

++wilwarin538

Nothing personal, m'dear; just a crack theory I have right now...
Hmm, curious what her "crack theory" was. Really don't like it when people are so cryptic. I almost prefer no reasoning over crypticness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosyne View Post
Depends on how much information the mod gives us. If we aren't told whether fewer kills than we expected are due to a Ranger save or due to a lack of wolvish power, then it wouldn't be that helpful to us.
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Last edited by wilwarin538; 09-02-2009 at 06:48 PM. Reason: remove highlight from vote
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:09 PM   #187
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:17 PM   #188
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Well, interesting turns of events, to say the least. They failed to guard you, Boro, so I trust you didn't have a hand in poor Mnemo's death!

I regret being part of Kitanna's, but her vote and guard struck me as wrong, and no one else was screaming for my vote.
I haven't seen anything much of note in Kit's words, beyond what Wilwa noted about the 'red flag' comment.
Nor Mnemo's. The choice of her as a target seems rather random. I would be curious as to the details of her 'crack theory' about Wilwa though.
Nerwen, if you would be so kind, a song might cheer our hearts.
What to do with the Legate?

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Old 09-02-2009, 07:41 PM   #189
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The Voting:

Lynch:
Nilp--> Nilp – I believe this is fairly typical.
Mnemo--> Wilwa – a theory that I’m sad we will now never know
Brinn--> McCaber – because he hadn’t posted and she didn’t find anyone suspicious
Nerwen--> Kit – thinks she was jittery about the seer reveal plan (which is in hindsight understandable) but there was something that didn’t sit right with her. She acknowledges that she doesn’t really have a proper case against Kit but says she doesn’t have a proper case against anyone. I’m leaning innocent for her at the moment.
Shasta--> Lommy – not sure why… he mentioned that he thought she looked odd earlier and that he had a busy day.
Kit--> Brinn – doesn’t like that she voted for McCaber because he wasn’t participating. She understands random votes but not the voting for someone who isn’t participating. I don’t think that Brinn was the dream.
Boro--> Kit – he thought that her reactions to Mnemo’s plan were suspicious as well as her lynch-vote for Brinn. He had been suspicious of Kit for a while… I’m leaning slightly closer to innocent than guilty for him.
Zil--> Kit – he doesn’t like her vote for Brinn. This seems like a wolf jumping on a bandwagon to me.
Greenie--> Nog – she doesn’t like how he went after Lommy and his post where he ends with “So…” (quoted in her 95). She believes that it looks really evil and she finds him more suspicious than she has ever found anyone on Day One before. Interesting.
McCaber--> Wilwa – “for silly discussion on the previous pages that could have an adverse effect to the village's safety”
Hakon--> Legate – he feels “off”
Pitchwife--> Kit – for lack of something better…he wavered between suspecting her and not suspecting her
Legate--> Wilwa – to give Kit some lynch competition it would seem. This looks innocent.[/sarcasm]
Nienna--> Zil
Wilwa--> Kit – doesn’t like voting without suspicion but wants to save herself
Nog--> Greenie – she is either too trigger happy or evil for voting for him and too much rhetorics.
Lommy--> Kit – she isn’t sure why everyone is suspicious of Wilwa
Sally--> Kit – she mentions that she thinks Kit a bit suspicious but it might be too easy

Guard:
Mnemo--> Boro – no real reason given except that she grouped him with Legate and Nog as reasonable people who are “heckawolves” and interesting to keep around. So this sounds like she guarded Boro because he could be innocent or guilty and she likes having him around.
Brinn--> Legate – she believes him innocentish, sensible, and reasonable.
Sally--> Mnemo – she believes her to be innocent and would be a good person to have on her side because she was coming up with new theories (the seer thing)
Nerwen--> Legate – because he is a likely target if innocent and he has been worrying her a little so he was a good choice in her mind no matter how you look at it
Kit--> Hakon – hasn’t posted yet so would be an easy no-trail kill. I don’t believe he was her dream though.
Shasta--> Legate – he (along with Lommy) looked odd.
Boro--> Nienna – he mentioned earlier that I have good instincts
Zil--> Boro – he wants to keep Boro around but he doesn’t want grief if he (Zil) is wrong about him (Boro). Yep Zil is still flashing wolf at me.
Nog--> Legate – to find out whether he is a wolf or not (I believe)
Greenie--> Nienna
Nienna--> Mnemo
Hakon--> Boro – he feels “innocent”
Pitchwife--> Boro – no reason (unless this is also for lack of something better)
Lommy--> Legate – to know his role … If Legate is a wolf this would seem to point toward Lommy’s innocence
Legate--> Lommy – interestingly he doesn’t try to guard someone with more votes so as to maybe not be guarded so we don’t find out he is furry.
Wilwa--> Legate (not bolded…?... does this mean it doesn’t count?)
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:43 PM   #190
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Another list, just cause they are crazy fun:

Suspicious
Legate: he made sense for the most part yesterDay, though there were inconsistencies here and there. The fact that there was only one kill last Night does point towards him, I doubt the wolves would have given up a second kill purely to set him up, doesn't seem at all worth it for them to do that. Pretty sure I'm gonna vote him.
McCaber: not too too much from him yesterDay, but his vote just bugs me, doubt I'll vote him though, but I'm watching him
Lommy: she seemed very flip-floppy (as Nog put it), the fact that she was quick to disregard both Mnemo's plan and Pitch's suggestion as being "unfair" really bugs me, since they both follow the rules perfectly, and therefore are completely fair

Innocentish, for now
Boro: seems honest and logical, haven't seen anything that I don't like, might vote to guard him
Nerwen: nothing bad standing out for me here, she seems very logical, I understand why she got some guard votes yesterDay
Nienna: not seeing anything badish here
Nogrod: really trusting him, I like his logic and agree with him for the most part, I appreciate that he didn't totally throw out Mnemo's idea yesterDay, pretty sure I'm gonna vote to guard him
Pitchwife: seems fine
Sally: seems good
Shasta: seems good

Unsure, for now anyway
Greenie: didn't really stand out for me when I was reading back through, so don't have an opinion either way
Alona: no posts yet
Brinn: see Greenie
Hakon: nothing but "gut feelings" from him, so really there's not much to say
Inziladun: see Greenie and Brinn
Nessa: nothing from her yet
Nilp: is Nilp, "Confussion" is his middle name I'm sure

So there we are. Gonna go sleep now. Hope to see lots when I get up!

Xposted with Nilp, Inzil and Nienna
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:46 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund View Post
Too easy?
What's too easy dearie???
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:00 PM   #192
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Boots

Illustrious Legate and the one-kill NIGHT?
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:12 PM   #193
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It may, in fact, be too easy but I don't know if I'm willing to risk letting a wolf slip by with these odds and the wolves being able to kill two people at night. We can either lynch Legate who was heavily suspected yesterDay anyway or we can lynch someone else who has higher odds of being innocent. If we lynch Legate and find out that he is innocent then we know the wolves are messing with us and with their ability to kill two people per night.
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Old 09-02-2009, 08:59 PM   #194
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Boots *grumbles about the violation of Carta Lunatica et Dementia*

If they had killed two last NIGHT, we would have had two leads to follow, plus Legate's innocence would have been proven.

The single kill is shocking, yes, but not without merit for them.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:08 PM   #195
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Boots

Then again, I'm not able to make much out of our single *chortles* lead. Except that Mnemo was smart enough to come up with that plan. But she wasn't exactly quiet, was she? She polarised the village along two lines: those in favour, and those opposing. (Plus the usual slackers, but they're always there, so they don't count. )

Then again, nobody voted for her, nobody suspected her.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:10 PM   #196
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*strums lute in minor key*

Ai! Well, that was a bad start. I feel partly responsible, too... It's yet another example of how hard it is to distinguish between wolfish and gifted-ish behaviour.

At the risk of sticking my head in a noose– I do think we need to look at the Kit voters. Very unlikely there wasn't a wolf involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nienna View Post
It may, in fact, be too easy but I don't know if I'm willing to risk letting a wolf slip by with these odds and the wolves being able to kill two people at night. We can either lynch Legate who was heavily suspected yesterDay anyway or we can lynch someone else who has higher odds of being innocent. If we lynch Legate and find out that he is innocent then we know the wolves are messing with us and with their ability to kill two people per night.
Well, I found him a trifle off yesterDay myself– but what about your own point here?–

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nienna View Post
Legate--> Lommy – interestingly he doesn’t try to guard someone with more votes so as to maybe not be guarded so we don’t find out he is furry.
I agree, though, that it does the wolves no good whatever to miss a kill in order to frame an innocent– unless one of the pack was in danger. If Legate's not a wolf, Wilwa might well be.

EDIT:X'd with The Fool.
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Old 09-02-2009, 09:19 PM   #197
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Of course, if Boro– the runner-up in the Guard voting– were a wolf, I suppose a Legwolf wouldn't have voted him.

EDIT:spelling.
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Old 09-02-2009, 10:15 PM   #198
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Well so far I don't have any more brilliant insights. Although for what it's worth I think we have time for a Legate lynch toDay, and be ready to sort things out later.

But much of my thought process is pending on what happens toDay yet.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:14 PM   #199
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Okay, I have just skimmed throught toDay as I don't have that much time, just a few notes.

First, of course the Wolves are framing us, and I would apply on the village to say that lynching me would really be stupid. If that goes on, you can always lynch me later (at most when you don't have any other people and it's some Day Fifty), but this frame-up is so transparent once it's been done. Look at it from the Wolves' point of view, if they had the incredible luck of getting rid of a Seer, and they can still have two kills per every Night, I don't see that it would be too much of a pain for them to leave out one kill. (And especially if they can easily lynch one innocent on this Day by accusing him like this.)

Right now I have a very bad feeling about wilwa, partially also about sally and also about Hakon, who just pops out and says to lynch me yesterday, and then pops out and says today:
Quote:
Either my gut feeling about Legate being a wolf was right or the wolves are trying to trick us. I hope it is that Legate is just a wolf.
Which just stinks.

Okay, had to go now, will be back later during the Day. You can line up with questions on me meanwhile, if you have any, but it'll be in some eight hours from now at first when I can answer.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:33 PM   #200
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Boots Da Fool's remix of the vote list

Lynch tally with preliminary Kitanna-lysis

(Time reckoned from the start of the DAY, known innocents underlined, known baddies emphasised, person/s in the lead bolded.)

+3:29 Nilp – Nilp (Nilp – 1)
+18:19 Mnemo – wilwa (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1)
+18:50 Brinn – McCaber (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1)
+20:22 Nerwen – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 1)
+21:53 Shasta – Lommy (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 1, Lommy – 1)
+22:09 Kitanna – Brinn (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 1, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1)
+22:32 Boro – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 2, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1)
Tie breaker! Boro needs closer inspection, but for the moment I consider him an 'I dunno what he is.'
+22:50 Zil – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 3, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1)
Worrying bandwaggon-style vote.
+23:00 Greenie – Nogrod (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 1, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 3, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1)
+23:12 McCaber – wilwa (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 2, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 3, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1)
+23:43 Hakon – Legate (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 2, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 3, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1)
+23:55 Pitchie – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 2, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 4, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1)
Pitchie has been much helpful during the DAY's discussion; therefore I am inclined to think him 'clueless' innocent.
+23:57 Legate – wilwa (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 4, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1)
+23:57 Nienna – Zil (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 4, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1, Zil – 1)
+23:59 wilwa – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 5, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1, Zil – 1)
wilwa was in second place for most of the last hour. She said that her vote was to try to save herself. If she is a Wolf I would look more closely at Lommy and Sally (see below).
-0:00 Nogrod – Greenie (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 5, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1, Zil – 1, Greenie – 1)
Not a Kitanna vote, but . . . Throwaway much? Last-minute Wolf-on-Wolf? (If I remember right it's also somewhat standard Nog to vote 'with principles.') An innocentish 'I don't know what he is', due to some good stuff said during the DAY.
-0:00 Lommy – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 6, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1, Zil – 1, Greenie – 1)
-0:00 Sally – Kitanna (Nilp – 1, wilwa – 3, McCaber – 1, Kitanna – 7, Lommy – 1, Brinn – 1, Nogrod – 1, Legate – 1, Zil – 1, Greenie – 1)
Doom, gloom, boom. The two lasses created a huge gap between wilwa and Kitanna during the very last minute, so . . . see above.
No vote: alonariel, Nessa

Lunch, Guard vote list, and more analysis. In that order.
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