ROTK - exchanged lines

[Estelyn Telcontar]

In the third movie, as in the first two, there are lines from the book that are given to different persons or used in different situations than originally. <P>The first one I noticed was the line Gandalf said to Shadowfax when leaving Rohan - about showing them the meaning of haste. It's originally used in "The Houses of Healing", when Gandalf suggests riding with Ioreth to find athelas. Same speaker, completely different location and situation.<P>The second was when Elrond brought Aragorn the reforged sword - Elrond speaks in Elvish, Aragorn answers: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Ónen i-Estel Edain,<BR>ú-chebin estel anim. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is actually a quote from Appendix A - Gilraen, Aragorn's mother, says it, and it is translated: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept no hope for myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you seen other exchanged lines?

[metropolis_part_one]

In the Battle of the Pelennor Fields Eomer sings the song 'Our of Doubt'. But in the film Theoden does this (or does he do this in the film of TTT? I'm not sure now, but Eomer does not do it).

[Child of the 7th Age]

The example of this that struck me the most was the scene where Gandalf told Pippin about what happens after death as they gazed out at the battle scenes. PJ's Gandalf used some of the same phrases that had been used in the book to describe Frodo's dream in the house of Tom Bombadil and then repeated again by JRRT to describe what Frodo saw as he approached the shores of Tol Eressea at the very end of the tale.<P>Here is the original book quote, which refers to Frodo:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey-rain curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As this is one of my very favorite descriptions from the book, I'm glad the words made it in somewhere, even if not from Frodo's mind!<p>[ 4:11 PM January 05, 2004: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[piosenniel]

Yes, Child - I loved that scene!:<P>The movie, RotK:<P>Hours before a battle in which he is sure he will die, Pippin tells Gandalf that he “never thought it would end like this.”<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Gandalf replies, “End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. There’s another path we all must take. The gray rain curtain of this world rolls back, and it will change to the silver clouds, and then you see it.” When Pippin asks, “See what?” Gandalf replies, “White shores and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.” Gandalf’s words, with a vivid picture of heaven, comfort Pippin as he contemplates battle and possible death.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It’s from <I>The Grey Havens</I>; <B>RotK</B>:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Then Frodo kissed Merry and Pippin, and last of all Sam, and went aboard; and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew, and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth; and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore glimmered and was lost. And the ship went out into the High Sea and passed on into the West, until at last on a night of rain Frodo smelled a sweet fragrance on the air and heard the sound of singing that came over the water. And then it seemed to him that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gil-Galad]

treebeard says some stuff Tom Bombadil said in the TTT extended, and Grima said stuff Gandalf said fro mteh houses of healing

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Gandalf replies, “End? No, the journey doesn’t end here. There’s another path we all must take. The gray rain curtain of this world rolls back, and it will change to the silver clouds, and then you see it.” When Pippin asks, “See what?” Gandalf replies, “White shores and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise.” Gandalf’s words, with a vivid picture of heaven, comfort Pippin as he contemplates battle and possible death. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is nice that these lines are included, and I thought that this little scene between Gandalf and Pippin was very touching. I love the way that the relationship between these characters develops as the film progresses.<P>But, although when I saw the film for the first time I did not place these lines from the book, it did occur to me that they were strange lines for Gandalf to be saying to Pippin, since Gandalf is clearly talking about the Undying Lands. And, while he will return there, Pippin's fate lies in an entirely different place. Still the sense of the journey not ending with death was conveyed well, and it was a nice touch given the situation that they were in.

[Diamond18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The second was when Elrond brought Aragorn the reforged sword - Elrond speaks in Elvish, Aragorn answers: <P>quote:<BR>Ónen i-Estel Edain,<BR>ú-chebin estel anim. <P>This is actually a quote from Appendix A - Gilraen, Aragorn's mother, says it, and it is translated: <P>quote:<BR>I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept no hope for myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure if this really counts as an "exchanged line": because from the looks on their faces (and harkening back to the scene at her grave in FotR EE) we can tell that Elrond is quoting Gilraën to inspire Aragorn. Aragorn has probably known all his life what his mother said about him with her last words. So it's still, in effect, Gilraën's quote.

[Novlamothien]

Arwen recites the last verse of the poem that begins "all that is gold does not glitter..." before Andrul is forged. In the books, the poem is recited twice, once by Aragorn in Bree, and Bilbo says it at the Council of Elrond. <P>Namarie

[The Dark Elf]

correct me if im wrong but i thought in the book that merry was supposed to get taller than pippen, therfore their lines were mixed.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Saucepan Man:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But, although when I saw the film for the first time I did not place these lines from the book, it did occur to me that they were strange lines for Gandalf to be saying to Pippin, since Gandalf is clearly talking about the Undying Lands. And, while he will return there, Pippin's fate lies in an entirely different place. Still the sense of the journey not ending with death was conveyed well, and it was a nice touch given the situation that they were in.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's definitely not something that Tolkien would have done, but I took these words in a wider sense. I felt PJ used Gandalf's speech to convey a "generic" assurance that death does not mean the termination of one's existence, whether referring to Elves or mortals. It was not limited to Elvenhome, which is how Tolkien originally used the description. Of course, according to the canon of the Legendarium, we know little about where men go -- only that they are not bound to the circles of the world. <P>How did others read this?

[mollecon]

On a more general note, this is exactly one of the things the scriptwriters/director did to, as they say, 'get Tolkien (back) into the film'. They had written a ~80 pages long resume with the general storyline (of the movies, that is), they had all the various 'effects' necessary for creating an image of Middle Earth, & so they used quotes/semi-quotes from the books put into the movies where it worked, but not necessarily where Tolkiens novel originally had them. At least, that's how it's explained in the FotR EE boxset's additional material. One can discuss whether it works, personally, I like it a lot. But I guess some would disagree...

[Lily Bracegirdle]

Theoden also took another line from Eomer in the movie. In the book, the Eomer finds Eowyn "dead" on the battlefield and says:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Eowyn, how come you here? What madness or devilry is this? Death, death, death! Death take us all!" ... Over the field rang his clear voice calling:<B>Death! Ride to ruin and world's ending!" ... the Rohirrim sang no more. <I>Death</I> they cried with one voice loud and terrible, </B>and gathering speed ... their battle swept about their fallen king and passed, roaring away southwards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I was disappointed when Theoden used "Death!" as his rallying cry, because then I knew Eomer wouldn't have his scene with Eowyn.<P>Also, in the movie Pippin says: "The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!" which in the book were the last lines he heard before falling unconcious beneath the troll.<P>-Lily<p>[ 10:16 PM January 05, 2004: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

[Lathriel]

In the prologue of FOTR Galadriel says, "The world is changing:I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air."<BR>Actually Treebeard says this in the third book at the very end.

[Essex]

In the book it is Theoden, not Gandalf, who states <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>'So we come to it in the end,' he said: 'the great battle of our time'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There's dozens more all throughout the films. Grima's speech to Eoywn is Gandalf's speech in the Houses of Healing. Saruman knicks a line from Boromir (smoke rises from mordor). Galadriel knicks a line from Elrond (I think that this task is appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will). And loads more!