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12-11-2003, 04:35 PM | #1 |
Sword of Spirit
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Sauron should have won!
Have you ever stopped to wonder why Sauron was defeated when he lost his precious ring. All his current military power(and his own physical power) were compounded during the absence of the ring. We know what would have happened if he gained it, but if it was destroyed, than he should have remained at the strength that he was. He had used his own will that was not bound to the ring, so his power would stand no matter what became of the One.
He would still have an army to subdue the world. Which leaves us with Aragorn and the other members of the Fellowship to drown in a raging sea of orcs. My theory makes logical sense, but doesn't make a good ending... <font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:37 PM December 11, 2003: Message edited by: Gurthang ]
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12-11-2003, 05:00 PM | #2 |
Deathless Sun
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When he made the Ring, Sauron poured a lot of himself into the Ring, which is what gave it its "malice" and "cruelty." He was only defeated when the Ring was taken from him, effectively separating "parts" of himself. When the Ring was destroyed, Sauron lost a great deal of "himself," which had been put into the One Ring. He couldn't survive in any form or manner with such a big "chunk" of himself missing like that.
To put it in human terms, we wouldn't be able to live without arms and legs, right? Sauron couldn't either.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
12-11-2003, 07:00 PM | #3 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
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Finwe has already given you part of the answer.
The second half is that all Sauron's power in the War of the Ring was still based on the power of the Ring. As long as the Ring was in existence Sauron could indirectly draw on it's power, since it was a part of him. So, if it is destroyed he does not remain at the same level of strength. The crumbling of his armies with the destruction of the Ring was keyed to his crippling as a being. His masses of minions required his evil hand in their hearts to provide them with a will. This is another place where the Ring aided his strength. However, when the Ring was destroyed and Sauron crippled, then his will was removed from his minions and they were bereft of purpose and became nothing more than beasts. However, his armies are largely irrelevant. Once his power was broken, there was nothing more that he could do with them anyway.
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12-11-2003, 07:21 PM | #4 | |
The Kinslayer
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Kuru has already explain to you the answer, but you might want to see JRRT own words regarding the destruction of the Ring and what would happen to Sauron afterwards.
From the Letters of JRRT 131 Quote:
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12-11-2003, 07:42 PM | #5 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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Quote:
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12-11-2003, 08:09 PM | #6 |
Haunting Spirit
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I say He should not have won.
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12-11-2003, 08:13 PM | #7 |
Deathless Sun
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But what if someone of the calibre of Aragorn usurped the Ring? If Aragorn had taken the Ring, and become corrupted by it, he would have given Sauron some very serious competition. Perhaps someone with his strength would have been able to use the Ring to his own advantage.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
12-11-2003, 08:21 PM | #8 | |
Wight
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Quote:
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You mean you'll put down your rock and I'll put down my sword and we'll try to kill each other like civilized people? |
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12-11-2003, 08:47 PM | #9 | ||
A Northern Soul
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Quote:
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12-11-2003, 09:39 PM | #10 | ||||
The Kinslayer
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Quote:
From the Letters of JRRT: 246 Quote:
Quote:
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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12-12-2003, 01:24 AM | #11 | |
Pile O'Bones
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I think we all can agree to an answer to the first question posted; but, I find the second question much more interesting. Once the Ring was destroyed, so was Sauron. We can agree on this. Sauron's armies on the other hand were not. The catch here is that Sauron's will and malice was bent over them. This meant as soon as he disappeared, so did his armies driving force. This is why, once Gollum falls into the Cracks of Doom; Sauron's forces are pretty much reduced to nothing but sitting ducks. One of my favorite passages in the books is:
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Cheers, Mungo
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Yet the lies that Melkor...sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and connot be destroyed, and ever and annon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit unto the latest days. |
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12-12-2003, 10:40 AM | #12 |
Haunting Spirit
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Aragorn could barely look at Sauron in the palantir, let alone use his ring to take over middle earth and usurp Sauron. He was simply not strong enough in his mind to do so.
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12-12-2003, 05:27 PM | #13 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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12-12-2003, 05:30 PM | #14 |
A Northern Soul
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If this thread is going to go in a Sauron vs. _____ in one-on-one direction, please search for other threads - there are plenty of others where the matter has been debated extensively.
This thread is really about the military confrontations.
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12-12-2003, 11:53 PM | #15 |
Haunting Spirit
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Here's an odd thought:
So, all of Sauron's evil was invested in The Ring. When The Ring was destroyed, did that leave Sauron as entirely good? Is it possible that Sauron still exists, as a good guy? With The Ring, and therefore all of his evil destroyed, Sauron walks Middle Earth, as one of those dreadfully perfect people, The horror of it is un-fathomable.
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12-13-2003, 12:07 AM | #16 |
A Northern Soul
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"All" of Sauron's evil wasn't in the Ring...he still had plenty himself, obviously. It's not as if he has evil in a jar and poured it all out into the Ring.
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12-13-2003, 10:04 AM | #17 | |
Wight
Join Date: May 2001
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Legolas, the whole passage from the Silm reads thus:
Quote:
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12-13-2003, 10:42 AM | #18 | ||
Spectre of Decay
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This is a somewhat imprecise description, but there are other sources than the Silmarillion that describe the same event in slightly different words. Elrond's account from The Council of Elrond runs thus:
Quote:
Quote:
<font size=1 color=339966>[ 11:53 AM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Squatter of Amon Rûdh ]
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12-13-2003, 11:35 AM | #19 |
Deathless Sun
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Unless, of course, Squatter, PJ was right, and Sauron started moving like a child's toy running out of batteries, and Isildur was flailing about with the hilt-shard of Narsil like a rabid squirrel. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
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