Scenes Tolkien alluded to or briefly mentioned - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 11-25-2004, 07:54 AM

I know we've spoken in length about Scenes that were left out of the movie we would have liked to include if we had made them.

Listening to the commentary on TT the other week, I noticed PJ talking about the attacks on Lorien that Tolkien mentions in the Tale of the Years, and wondering whether he should film them as a pick up for ROTK. (He was quickly reigned in by his missus who moaned 'no more battles!')

I'm just wondering what scenes that could have been added that Tolkien alluded to or mentioned briefly in his text to make the films even better. (I know, as if there wasn't enough already....)

My three for starters:

LATER EVENTS CONCERNING THE MEMBERS OF THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING: I thought we might have seen a version of this at the end of ROTK, as PJ mentioned in the commentary of LOTR that Cate Blanchett would 'bookend' the films with narration. Therefore I thought we might see the events Tolkien briefly mentions in Appendix B. Alas no.

Gandalf's attack by the Nazgul on Weathertop: What a great scene this would have been. We could also have had a cut shot to Strider noticing the flashes from the battle from far off in the night.

Live action shots of Gloin's narration: You know, the bit in the COE where he mentions Sauron's emissary visiting the Dwarves in Dain and offering gold etc for the 'little ring, the least of rings....but a trifle that Sauron fancies'

Anyone got any others to add?

Boromir88 · 11-28-2004, 09:45 AM

I thinkthe addition of Gandalf's attack on weathertop and the later events of the Fellowship are great ideas

. If I'm turning this into a "what characters should PJ have included thread" forgive me, I'll try to connect them with the scenes.

Imrahil and Beregond events: Without these guys you miss two faces of Gondor, the strength, bravery, (and I might say styling knights of Dol Amroth), and the compassionate, caring, humble Beregond. Anyway, I would have liked to see these guys included and some of the scenes that they do. For instance, Beregond saving Faramir, or Imrahil telling Eomer Eowyn isn't dead.

The lords entering the City: One of my favorite non-fighting scenes in the book is when the outlying lords of Gondor, enter the city with their men, right before the siege...Forlong, Imrahil, Duinhir, Duihin, Derufin, Dervorin (you get the point), I just love that part

.

Farmer Maggot's house: Farmer Maggot (since he did actually see Bombadil) played an important role in having the hobbits, in a way mature. He (as well as Bombadil) told the Hobbits they aren't the first to inhabit the Shire, and they won't be the last. They both taught them that there's a lot more out there then The Little Shire.

Tuor of Gondolin · 11-28-2004, 03:50 PM

related events:
(Prince Imrahil would have to be included here)
1)Imrahil leads his cavalry out to assist the Rohirrim
2) He meets Theoden's guard bringing Theoden's body to Minas Tirith
and acknowledges his charge
3) Aragorn, Eomer, and Imrahil walking back after the battle and going to
see Theoden in state and then the Houses of healing. It would have been
quite a dramatic scene to see Theoden.

Quote:

...before the dais lay Theoden King of the Mark upon a bed of state; and twelve torches stood about it, and twelve guards, knights of both Rohan and Gondor. And the hangings of the bed were of green and white, but upon the king was laid the great cloth of gold up to his breast, and upon that his unsheathed sword, and at his feet his shield. The light of the torches shimmered in his white hair like sun in the spray of a fountain, but his face was fair and young, save that a peace lay on it beyond the reach of youth; and it seemed that he slept.

Lalaith · 11-29-2004, 06:00 AM

Actually, I think Essex was intending us to talk about scenes that weren't actually described in detail in the book but could have been put into the films, rather than things that *were* in the book but left out of the film.
I nominate the attack on Erebor and Laketown...

Estelyn Telcontar · 11-29-2004, 09:08 AM

Peter Jackson did include one scene in the movie that was missing (just barely mentioned) in the book - the death of Théodred. I remember going back to look for what happened to Théoden's son and having to comb the chapters thoroughly to find it. It felt as if something pivotal to the plot had been neglected when the death of the king's son was treated in such an off-hand manner. I was happy to see more about it in the movie!

Essex · 11-30-2004, 04:47 AM

Yes, Lalaith's got it right. What I meant was stuff either mentioned by a character, or maybe mentioned in another book / appendices.

another example (and it could have explained in more detail saruman's dealings with sauron) would have been Saruman's confrontation with the Nazgul at Isengard from Unfinished Tales, (and according to what version PJ saw as the most valid from that book) we could have had:

1/ Saruman 'submitting' to the Nazgul and chasing up to gandalf to save his skin, or
2/ saruman sending the nazgul away with his Voice.

Funnily enough, I believe the script writers might well have alluded to part of number 1/, as we see Saruman standing on top of Orthanc as Gandalf escapes (okay it was a different reason why Saruman was there, I admit)

Encaitare · 11-30-2004, 03:07 PM

Since I'd never object to an extra Grima scene, I think it would have been cool if PJ had included Grima's riding to Isengard to warn Saruman of Gandalf's coming to Meduseld, and his encounter with the Nazgul. I don't believe it's mentioned in LotR, but it is in Unfinished Tales.

Boromir88 · 12-04-2004, 09:21 AM

I just discovered a scene that Tolkien alluded to, and Mr. Jackson added it in.

Amon Hen, well the ambush part. Most of the fighting it appears was done by Boromir, Legolas, and Gimli, but Tolkien never shows their POV's. It is briefly mentioned by Merry and Pippin, and it's described when Boromir's dying their is many orcs laying around. We never get to see the fighting, we only get to see the aftermath. To be honest, I'm glad PJ did add this part in, it came to a conclusion for the first movie, I can't imagine seeing at the end of FOTR, Boromir goes crazy and Frodo leaves, then a year later in TTT what, beginning of the movie? Boromir dead?

11-25-2004, 07:54 AM	#1
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Scenes Tolkien alluded to or briefly mentioned I know we've spoken in length about Scenes that were left out of the movie we would have liked to include if we had made them. Listening to the commentary on TT the other week, I noticed PJ talking about the attacks on Lorien that Tolkien mentions in the Tale of the Years, and wondering whether he should film them as a pick up for ROTK. (He was quickly reigned in by his missus who moaned 'no more battles!') I'm just wondering what scenes that could have been added that Tolkien alluded to or mentioned briefly in his text to make the films even better. (I know, as if there wasn't enough already....) My three for starters: LATER EVENTS CONCERNING THE MEMBERS OF THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING: I thought we might have seen a version of this at the end of ROTK, as PJ mentioned in the commentary of LOTR that Cate Blanchett would 'bookend' the films with narration. Therefore I thought we might see the events Tolkien briefly mentions in Appendix B. Alas no. Gandalf's attack by the Nazgul on Weathertop: What a great scene this would have been. We could also have had a cut shot to Strider noticing the flashes from the battle from far off in the night. Live action shots of Gloin's narration: You know, the bit in the COE where he mentions Sauron's emissary visiting the Dwarves in Dain and offering gold etc for the 'little ring, the least of rings....but a trifle that Sauron fancies' Anyone got any others to add?

11-28-2004, 09:45 AM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I thinkthe addition of Gandalf's attack on weathertop and the later events of the Fellowship are great ideas . If I'm turning this into a "what characters should PJ have included thread" forgive me, I'll try to connect them with the scenes. Imrahil and Beregond events: Without these guys you miss two faces of Gondor, the strength, bravery, (and I might say styling knights of Dol Amroth), and the compassionate, caring, humble Beregond. Anyway, I would have liked to see these guys included and some of the scenes that they do. For instance, Beregond saving Faramir, or Imrahil telling Eomer Eowyn isn't dead. The lords entering the City: One of my favorite non-fighting scenes in the book is when the outlying lords of Gondor, enter the city with their men, right before the siege...Forlong, Imrahil, Duinhir, Duihin, Derufin, Dervorin (you get the point), I just love that part . Farmer Maggot's house: Farmer Maggot (since he did actually see Bombadil) played an important role in having the hobbits, in a way mature. He (as well as Bombadil) told the Hobbits they aren't the first to inhabit the Shire, and they won't be the last. They both taught them that there's a lot more out there then The Little Shire. __________________ Fenris Penguin

11-29-2004, 09:08 AM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Peter Jackson did include one scene in the movie that was missing (just barely mentioned) in the book - the death of Théodred. I remember going back to look for what happened to Théoden's son and having to comb the chapters thoroughly to find it. It felt as if something pivotal to the plot had been neglected when the death of the king's son was treated in such an off-hand manner. I was happy to see more about it in the movie! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

12-04-2004, 09:21 AM	#8
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I just discovered a scene that Tolkien alluded to, and Mr. Jackson added it in. Amon Hen, well the ambush part. Most of the fighting it appears was done by Boromir, Legolas, and Gimli, but Tolkien never shows their POV's. It is briefly mentioned by Merry and Pippin, and it's described when Boromir's dying their is many orcs laying around. We never get to see the fighting, we only get to see the aftermath. To be honest, I'm glad PJ did add this part in, it came to a conclusion for the first movie, I can't imagine seeing at the end of FOTR, Boromir goes crazy and Frodo leaves, then a year later in TTT what, beginning of the movie? Boromir dead? __________________ Fenris Penguin

11-29-2004, 06:00 AM	#4
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Actually, I think Essex was intending us to talk about scenes that weren't actually described in detail in the book but could have been put into the films, rather than things that were in the book but left out of the film. I nominate the attack on Erebor and Laketown...

11-30-2004, 04:47 AM	#6
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Yes, Lalaith's got it right. What I meant was stuff either mentioned by a character, or maybe mentioned in another book / appendices. another example (and it could have explained in more detail saruman's dealings with sauron) would have been Saruman's confrontation with the Nazgul at Isengard from Unfinished Tales, (and according to what version PJ saw as the most valid from that book) we could have had: 1/ Saruman 'submitting' to the Nazgul and chasing up to gandalf to save his skin, or 2/ saruman sending the nazgul away with his Voice. Funnily enough, I believe the script writers might well have alluded to part of number 1/, as we see Saruman standing on top of Orthanc as Gandalf escapes (okay it was a different reason why Saruman was there, I admit)

11-30-2004, 03:07 PM	#7
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Since I'd never object to an extra Grima scene, I think it would have been cool if PJ had included Grima's riding to Isengard to warn Saruman of Gandalf's coming to Meduseld, and his encounter with the Nazgul. I don't believe it's mentioned in LotR, but it is in Unfinished Tales.