Elven blades - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Neurion · 02-14-2005, 02:11 PM

While I prefer the more Tolkien-accurate leaf-shaped blades of Sting and Glamdring, I do find the curving blades of the majority of the elven weapons in the LotR films to be astheticaly pleasing, but I've noticed there's a bit of a problem in the film makers explanation of why most of these blades are curved.
If we accept that the curved blade is universal throughout the various elven cultures of Middle-Earth, why are Glamdring and Sting leaf-shaped?

It could be argued that since they came from Gondolin, that the Gondolindhrim had developed a unique leaf-shape style of sword, but why then, is Hadhafang, a sword supposedly created for Idril, princess of Gondolin, made in the movie's commoner "curved branch" style, when her father's sword is leaf-bladed?

Mithalwen · 02-14-2005, 02:59 PM

Well since they don't explain the origins of Glamdring and Sting in the book so I guess they don't feel the same need to be consistent. Also Sting was intended as a dagger - it is only a sword for a hobbit.

I think the lovely curved blades are to fit in with the somewhat oriental style of costume and fighting given to the elves. I guess you could rationalise it by saying that elves preferred the two handed curved sword for fighting on foot but their knights also used straight swords? Maybe.......?

Neurion · 02-14-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well since they don't explain the origins of Glamdring and Sting in the book so I guess they don't feel the same need to be consistent. Also Sting was intended as a dagger - it is only a sword for a hobbit.

I think the lovely curved blades are to fit in with the somewhat oriental style of costume and fighting given to the elves. I guess you could rationalise it by saying that elves preferred the two handed curved sword for fighting on foot but their knights also used straight swords? Maybe.......?

Perhaps. While there is some Japanese influence in some of the elven design asthetics though, their fighting styles are more or less European as far as I can tell, just altered to seem somewhat more "Otherworldly". Legolas' fighting style, for instance, is based on medieval French dagger fighting methods.

Mithalwen · 02-14-2005, 03:14 PM

Well we don't see a lot of elvish sword fighting ( I must retrieve my copy of TTT ) ... pity as I would have liked to seen Hugo do a Crouching Tiger routine

Didn't the saracens use a pair of short blades? not as east as Japan certainly...

Neurion · 02-14-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well we don't see a lot of elvish sword fighting ( I must retrieve my copy of TTT ) ... pity as I would have liked to seen Hugo do a Crouching Tiger routine

AACKK!

Beleg Cuthalion · 02-14-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well we don't see a lot of elvish sword fighting ( I must retrieve my copy of TTT ) ... pity as I would have liked to seen Hugo do a Crouching Tiger routine

Didn't the saracens use a pair of short blades? not as east as Japan certainly...

No offence, but if they had that in the films I think there would be even more bad feelings about certain Elves……

Mithalwen · 02-14-2005, 03:38 PM

Sorry, I meant to insert a smilie to indicate I wasn't being at all serious. Much as I love, Hugo and Crouching Tiger, and indeed elves generally, in general I am firmly on the side of Tolkien authenticity (although I have to say the elvish film stuff was beautiful). My blood pressure rose to dangerous levels when Haldir turned up at Helms Deep - I was grateful it wasn't Arwen though......

Beleg Cuthalion · 02-14-2005, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Sorry, I meant to insert a smilie to indicate I wasn't being at all serious. Much as I love, Hugo and Crouching Tiger, and indeed elves generally, in general I am firmly on the side of Tolkien authenticity (although I have to say the elvish film stuff was beautiful). My blood pressure rose to dangerous levels when Haldir turned up at Helms Deep - I was grateful it wasn't Arwen though......

Right on!

Neurion · 02-14-2005, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Sorry, I meant to insert a smilie to indicate I wasn't being at all serious. Much as I love, Hugo and Crouching Tiger, and indeed elves generally, in general I am firmly on the side of Tolkien authenticity (although I have to say the elvish film stuff was beautiful).

Ah yes. I think Daniel Falconer and all the rest really nailed the otherworldlieness of the Elves.

Beleg Cuthalion · 03-09-2005, 11:56 AM

All right to set everyone’s minds to rest on this subject, I have the answer: The Elves did not carry curved swords save one Egalmoth of the house of the Heavenly Arch.

From The Book of Lost Tales part 2: “Egalmoth was their chieftain, and wore a blue mantle upon which the stars were broidered in crystal, and his sword was bent- now none else of the Noldoli carried curved swords”

Tolkien did, of course, write this very early, and many elements of his mythology changed over the years. However, as he never wrote anything that contradicts this, and ever after continued to write of the leaf-shaped blades of the Elven swords, I say it stands.

02-14-2005, 02:11 PM	#1
Neurion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Standing amidst the slaughter I have wreaked upon the orcs Posts: 258	Elven blades While I prefer the more Tolkien-accurate leaf-shaped blades of Sting and Glamdring, I do find the curving blades of the majority of the elven weapons in the LotR films to be astheticaly pleasing, but I've noticed there's a bit of a problem in the film makers explanation of why most of these blades are curved. If we accept that the curved blade is universal throughout the various elven cultures of Middle-Earth, why are Glamdring and Sting leaf-shaped? It could be argued that since they came from Gondolin, that the Gondolindhrim had developed a unique leaf-shape style of sword, but why then, is Hadhafang, a sword supposedly created for Idril, princess of Gondolin, made in the movie's commoner "curved branch" style, when her father's sword is leaf-bladed? __________________ ____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly."

02-14-2005, 02:59 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,455	Well since they don't explain the origins of Glamdring and Sting in the book so I guess they don't feel the same need to be consistent. Also Sting was intended as a dagger - it is only a sword for a hobbit. I think the lovely curved blades are to fit in with the somewhat oriental style of costume and fighting given to the elves. I guess you could rationalise it by saying that elves preferred the two handed curved sword for fighting on foot but their knights also used straight swords? Maybe.......? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-14-2005, 03:14 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,455	Well we don't see a lot of elvish sword fighting ( I must retrieve my copy of TTT ) ... pity as I would have liked to seen Hugo do a Crouching Tiger routine Didn't the saracens use a pair of short blades? not as east as Japan certainly... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-14-2005, 03:38 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,455	Sorry, I meant to insert a smilie to indicate I wasn't being at all serious. Much as I love, Hugo and Crouching Tiger, and indeed elves generally, in general I am firmly on the side of Tolkien authenticity (although I have to say the elvish film stuff was beautiful). My blood pressure rose to dangerous levels when Haldir turned up at Helms Deep - I was grateful it wasn't Arwen though...... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-09-2005, 11:56 AM	#10
Beleg Cuthalion Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hominum que contente mundique huius et cupido Posts: 181	It's over All right to set everyone’s minds to rest on this subject, I have the answer: The Elves did not carry curved swords save one Egalmoth of the house of the Heavenly Arch. From The Book of Lost Tales part 2: “Egalmoth was their chieftain, and wore a blue mantle upon which the stars were broidered in crystal, and his sword was bent- now none else of the Noldoli carried curved swords” Tolkien did, of course, write this very early, and many elements of his mythology changed over the years. However, as he never wrote anything that contradicts this, and ever after continued to write of the leaf-shaped blades of the Elven swords, I say it stands. __________________ War is not the answer, War is the question and the answer is yes Quis ut Deus