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Old 11-10-2007, 08:04 PM   #1
Thinlómien
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Sting WW XXXIX - Do Werebalrogs have wings?

I am on the three-peaked mountain. I have a feeling I've been here before. When I look back I see the lights of the city of Gondolin. But something pulls me forward, some unknown force. I can't resist. I want to stop but my feet don't obey me. I'm going deeper to the dark. I'm afraid. They are waiting for me, as if summoned by my fear. They feel me approaching, they hear the blood pounding in my ears, they smell my sweat. I'm trying to turn back, but even if I could, it would be too late. There's one behind me, there's one beside me, there's one before me. I stop. They come closer. Flame and shadow, shadow and flame, merging into one, parting into three. I scream.

”Mother! I had the dream again.”
”It's alright, darling, it's alright.”
”It was the cave dream again.”
”I know, my darling, I know.”
”It was the third time.”
”Let's go to tell Grandpa Turgon, darling, let's go.”

~*~

”What be it, my dears, that ails you?” High King Turgon asked.
”The little one has had the dream again. Something must be done. I fear... the worst”, Idril said, glancing at her son.
The King looked at his grandson. ”The three-peaked mountain again?”
The boy nodded. ”They were there”, he said in a small voice.
”I must send someone to investigate”, the King said, ”there might be something to this. After all, you, Eärendil, are the son of Tuor the Messenger of Ulmo and my daughter Idril, who sees far.”
”Lord, I will go, if it pleases you!” a clear voice came from behind the King's throne.
”Glorfindel of the Golden Flower, I did not know you have the evil habit of eavesdropping! More would it please me if you used your gift for good.”
”Then, my lord, let me go to the mines!”
”Your wish is granted. Glorfindel of the Golden Flower, you shall go to the mines at the three-peaked mountain and find out what is happening there. And don't forget to take your sword with you.”

~*~

Every step takes me closer to the three peaks. A dark cloud lingers above the mountains. There's something wrong. Glorfindel shook his head. He had a bad feeling about this.

~*~

The old miner Thinlómion frowned. ”Anything special? Well, we found a new lode of iron ore this morning. That was a good find, even though I'd rather have found a silverlode. They are rare these days. Maeglin's miners found last year, but it was a thin one...”
”Excuse me, master Thinlómion. Anything else?” Glorfindel asked impatiently.
”Oh, nothing special, I guess. Three new workers came here yesterday, but that's hardly anything special, it happens all the time: the workers come and go. No one stays for long, except Maeglin's folk, they are the only ones who like it here.”
”Speaking of workers... where am I going to work?”
”Hmmm... I think you can work under my old friend Aganwë. I'll show you to his place, he'll assign you your duties.”

~*~

”I can’t understand why there’s no word of him!” Tuor bellowed.
“Hush”, said his wife, “you’re waking the little one. He should sleep.”
“How could I be silent, my fair lady? My friend, one of the finest and most valiant men there ever was in this city, is in trouble, possibly already dead.”
“I’m sure nothing’s wrong with him. There might have just been... snow in the mountains, so no messenger has been able to pass. Or maybe he just doesn’t have anything to report.”
“Or maybe your father hasn’t sen fit to tell me anything”, Tuor said, an edge of bitterness to his voice, “or maybe Glorfindel is dead.”
“You know my father isn’t like that! He took you here, treated you like his own son and let you marry his daughter. How could you accuse him of such thing? Tuor, that kind of hot-headedness is not like you. What is wrong with you?”
“Idril, Idril, don’t you see? Glorfindel, my friend, has walked to an unknown danger and probably died. But it should have been me, not him. It was my son’s dream, not his, wasn’t it? I should have gone, not him.”
“He was willing to go.”
“I would have been too, but no one saw it fit to tell me.”
“My love, you were away and the matter was urgent.”
“Nevertheless, it should have been me, not him, to go to investigate this thing. It is more than my duty to go after him and see nothing has happened to him.”
“Tuor, don’t leave me, don’t leave our son. I fear... I fear the Enemy knows. You should be here to protect Eärendil if...”
Tuor kissed his wife lightly on the top of her head. “I promise no such thing will happen. Don’t be afraid. I’m sorry, but I must go.” He let go of his wife, turned and walked away.
“Tuor! Don’t leave me!”
He glanced one last time to his wife, but said nothing and hurried to find his weapons and traveling gear.

~*~

Idril could not sleep. She knew everything was not well. There had been no word of Glorfindel or of her husband. My love, to think that you’re there in the mines and that there might be a deadly threat there... She had demanded and pleaded that her father should send a party of soldiers to see if everything was alright in the mines. He had declined it. He had said: “It would ruin everything. The soldiers couldn’t know if Tuor and Glorfindel were safe and sound unless they forced them to reveal. That would ruin the whole operation. They’re both there, spying, in a miner’s disguise. If they were to reveal themselves to my soldiers or leave a word, everybody in the mines would learn their true identities and their mission would fail. No, we must just wait patiently.” But Idril, she couldn’t wait any longer.

One morning Turgon found a note from his rooms.
“Dear father,
I see you can’t send soldiers to check if my beloved is alive and well. Thus I must go myself. I can’t stand this any longer. I have gone to the mines, in a miner’s disguise and I wish to find my dearest (and also Lord Glorfindel). Take care of my little son and see he is safe.
With love,
Idril Celebrindal”


High King Turgon was grieved and strangled with worry, but he couldn’t send soldiers after his daughter. He knew that if there truly were Morgoth’s servants in the mines, the last thing they should find out was that the High King’s only daughter was there.

He might have sent the soldiers anyway, if he had known that his grandson Eärendil had run off and left to the mines as well.
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Old 11-10-2007, 08:08 PM   #2
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The Rules

The players:
3 Werebalrogs
Seer
Ranger
Hunter
Cobbler
8 ordinary miners

among which are the Lovers.

Werebalrogs:
Each Night they choose a villager to kill. The werebalrogs may PM with each other during the Night phases. No PMing during the Day. One of the werebalrogs must PM the kill to me, preferably one hour before the deadline at least, so that the narration can be in time (I will be flexible with this as there might be timezone problems, but would hope the wb:s could send their kills in time). The werebalrogs win when there are as many wbs left as there are villagers – then they are just happy to massacre the remaining villagers.

Cobbler:

Is an ordinary person who just wants the balrogs to win. S/he will play as an ordo (so no special abilities), but wins only if the balrogs win, so s/he will try to make them win. However, s/he doesn’t know who the werebalrogs are. In this game, the cobbler will be seen as the cobbler by the seer when dreamed of, but counted as an ordo in the tallies.

Seer:
Each Night chooses a person to dream of. The person’s role will be revealed to the seer. The seer PMs her/his dream choices to me each night. The seer is on the ordinary people’s side and wins if the werebalrogs are defeated.

Ranger:
Each Night the ranger chooses a person to protect. The chosen person can’t be killed by the balrogs that Night; the ranger protects him/her. The ranger plays on the ordinary people’s side and wins if the werebalrogs are defeated. The ranger can’t pick the same person to protect for two Nights in a row.

Logical Hunter:
Picks a person to hunt whenever s/he wishes to; s/he can change her/his pick whenever s/he wants to. The following rules apply to hunter kills: if the hunter has picked a werebalrog and is killed during the Night, s/he will take the picked wb with him/her. If s/he has picked an ordinary villager or any gifted, s/he will die alone. If the hunter is lynched, his/her pick will go with him/her, be s/he guilty or innocent. The hunter should feel free to reconsider her/his pick at anytime during the game. S/he is not tied to the one pick/Night –rule and s/he doesn’t have to change his/her pick Nightly. The logical hunter is on the ordinary people’s side and wins if the werebalrogs are defeated.

Ordinary Miners aka Ordinary Villagers:
Have no special activities to perform and win if the werebalrogs are defeated.

Lovers

Might be any people from the roles mentioned above. If the seer dreams of a lover, s/he does not see him/her as a lover, but as their actual role (for example an ordinary villager or a werebalrog). I will not give any further information about the lovers to anyone but the lovers themselves.


Miscellaneous Rules:

- The Days and the Nights last 24 hours.

- The deadline is 7 PM GMT.

- The roles will be revealed upon death.

- There will be no double-lynches (or triple or quadrupule or whatever...) lynches. The first one to reach the highest vote count will be lynched.

- There are no retractable votes, so once you’ve voted, you can’t change it.

- If there's a tie, the player reaching the highest vote first is lynched

- There will be no clues about the gifteds, werebalrogs or ordinary villagers’ identities in the narrations.

- The dead players can’t post on the thread.

- No player can use PMs to verify anything they say.

- Editing is only allowed to correct spelling/grammar mistakes, to go back and bold/italicize something etc. or to mark cross-posts, so it’s not for changing the content of one’s posts.

- All players must be in the Invisible Mode.

- Players are forbidden to talk to each other about the game anywhere else but on the game thread. (And admin thread for off-game announcements.) Werebalrogs and lovers, of course, make an exception.

- Absences etc. should be announced in the admin thread, which I hope all the players would check frequently.

- Players who don’t post or vote in two Days in a row will be removed from the game.

- The votes should be cast as follows:

++ Aganzir

(on a separate line, bolded, ++ in the beginning)

- Aganzir will be the mod-in-case-of-emergency. She will be there if I'm somehow unable to come to stop the day or something like that. She has also helped me with planning and we will co-write some narrations. You can trust her word about things in this game (unless I have said something that disagrees with what she has said).

~*~

Players
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Lhunardawen
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Naria
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
The Might
Volo


~*~

Please don’t post anything on this thread before Day1 starts. If you have something to say concerning this game, post it in the said admin thread.

Night1 will start today, November 11th, on 7pm GMT. The roles will be given out before that.

Last edited by Thinlómien; 11-11-2007 at 05:25 AM.
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:13 PM   #3
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The game begins

Night1 starts now. Lovers and werebalrogs, you may send PMs. Seer please send me your dream pick. Hunter, you may choose a "victim", but you're definately in no hurry, because it's me who's going to die toNight anyway.

Day 1 will start tomorrow at 7.00 pm GMT, so this first Night will be a bit shorter than a usual Day/Night phase.

Please don't post anything here...

Last edited by Thinlómien; 11-11-2007 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:02 PM   #4
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Day1 dawns

A clear voice came amidst the sound of falling water.

”Ei múmitaloa lucita yócsi, hei múmí! Cun hamara hípú yo tahtien vyócsi, hei múmí...! Nyt carceloi cansa ya cunnailla soi, cas múmeilta elamá opia voi... hei múmí!”

Tuor recognised both the song and the voice instantly. It had to be Glorfindel, singing the famous battle (and bath) song of the House of the Golden Flower. Tuor couldn't help smiling. So his friend was alive and well and as cheerful as usual. Sighing, Tuor retreated back to the shadows. It was better that they did not see each other. It was better Glorfindel wouldn't see him at all and that he did not see Glorfindel in his disguise. If they knew each other, they might not be able to hide their friendship and thus their mission would be risked.

~*~

Eärendil took off his miner's clothes. Pretending to be an adult was harder than he had expected. He folded up the clothes and hid them behind a stone. Resolutely, he walked into the little brook, curled up in a ball and fell asleep.

~*~

”Who is it? Who is calling me?”
”Don't you know my voice, darling, don't you know?”
”You shouldn't be here.”
”You shouldn't be here either.”
”You know I must be here. But you don't have to.”
”I couldn't be without you any longer.”
”It is not a reason to risk your life.”
”Maybe love is more important to me than it is to you.”
”Oh, let's not start quarrelling, my love, it has been so long since we last met.”
”I guess it depends on what you consider a long time...”
”Every second without you feels like a hundred years.”

~*~

”He said he suspects some spies have arrived from the City”, said the Balrog with Swing.
”Then we must act”, said the Balrog with Bling.
”That shall we do”, agreed the Balrog who Sings.

They decided to make the roof of the passageway collapse. They started whipping the roof with their fiery whips and the Balrog who Sings started singing:

”Just whistle while you work
And cheerfully together we can tidy up the place
So hum a merry tune”


”What's going on?” Thinlómion the Old Miner asked grumpily. ”You woke me up. Who are you and what are you doing to the roof?”
”We are da Werebalrogs, dude!” the Balrog with Bling replied enthusiastically.
”And we're making the passageway collapse”, the Balrog with Swing continued easily.
”Don't let it bother you, forget your troubles,
Try to be just like a cheerful chick-a-dee”
, the Balrog who Sings adviced the old miner.

”Stop right now, thank you very much! You foul creatures of Morgoth! I'll wake the others and they'll kill you!” Thinlómion shouted.
”That you're not going to do”, warned the Balrog with Swing and picked the elf up. He rose up and started flying around the cave in circles.

”Do balrogs have wings?” the Balrog with Swing asked casually.
”What?” asked Thinlómion.
”Do balrogs have wings?”
”Of course they don't!” Thinlómion shouted, horrified by the unnatural idea, ”There's nothing in the books that states they have actual wings!”
”A pity”, said the Balrog with Swing, ”then we must fall. Because I can't fly without wings.”

They fell together. The old miner's frail bones broke when he hit the stony floor. His twisted body was surrounded by a great shadowy fire. Then the Balrog with Swing emerged from the flame and bowed. His companions applauded. He grinned. ”Now let's get back to work.”

~*~

The miners woke up when the passageway roof came crashing down. In the chaos that followed, no one noticed that three of the miners didn't actually look like they had just woken up nor that there was one miner whose hair was dripping water.

”What the Utumno is happening here?!” satansaloser2005 shouted.
”The roof of the passageway just collapsed!” Nogrod roared.
”We're in a dead end”, screamed Lhunardawen.
”We are trapped”, The Might said, fear in his voice.
”Don't worry! We have plenty of space here, so we're not going to suffocate”, Mithalwen said.
”Besides, there's a brook running over there and we all have food with us, don't we?” Volo said cheerfully.
”This doesn't look so bad, after all”, Kath concluded.
”But this does!” Gil-Galad said, upset, ”come and see what's happened here!”

Thinlómion's body was laying on the floor, half buried among the fallen stones. The other old miner, Aganwë, was kneeling by his body and weeping. ”Wake up, dear”, he sobbed.
”Oh Valar, Thinlómion is dead”, Legate of Amon Lanc whispered.
”What happened here?” Naria asked Aganwë.
”I don't know. Leave me alone, I don't want to see you, leave me alone!”, he screamed.
”I think he's gone crazy”, Shastanis Althreduin said in a low voice.
”Poor old man”, Macalaure said empathically.
”Go away! And don't disturb me unless you really need something. I don't care. My world has fallen apart. Kill each other or something, I don't care”, Aganwë said in a broken voice.
”I think we'd better leave him alone”, Brinniel suggested.

They moved away from the dead man and his grieving friend.
”Horrible things happen in this world”, Nerwen said, shaking.
”What shall we do?” Rikae asked hopelessly.

”There are three werebalrogs among you. Wipe them out. All of them”, a mighty unearthly voice bellowed from the little brook.

”Ulmo”, Eärendil whispered.


~ written by Thinlómien and Aganzir

~*~

Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - killed by a wingless balrog on Night1

Living
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Lhunardawen
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Naria
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
The Might
Volo


Day1 starts. Elf miners and the ones disguised as such (in other words, all of you players), you can start discussing.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:20 PM   #5
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Let's just organise ourselves people.

The innocent miners to the left and do-gooders should blend in I suppose... and the baddies who are behind all this havoc to the right. Okay?

Now let's see the persons remaining at the right side and lynch them once and for all...

Well no one that is.

C'mon, be fair guys! What's all this hide and seek stuff about?

And how about if this one with wet hair being kind enough to explain?
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:46 PM   #6
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Care to say which side you are standing on? Nogrod? It would solve my dilemmas as to whether I should summarily vote for Kath for being inscrutable or Gil-galad for being confusing... However I shall not be hasty. But actually reading posts might force me to abandon age long prejudices.... Anyone else talking?
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:06 PM   #7
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And how about if this one with wet hair being kind enough to explain?
Hey, but that's you, sir! What are you going to say on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
C'mon, be fair guys! What's all this hide and seek stuff about?
Definitely! But are these shadow-and-flame guys fair enough to reveal to us?

But if they are not as fair guys, I wouldn't be as sure whether the actual villain would have already dried his head, so...

I only hope there is no xyzzy among us...
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:17 PM   #8
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I only hope there is no xyzzy among us...
Seconded indeed...

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Care to say which side you are standing on? Nogrod? It would solve my dilemmas
That's easy... I'm a fool-proof pure basic innocent. But that's what I would say whatever my role was. Although in this case it's true... which I would also say in any possible role. But as I said, I'm an innocent, which fact I would admit in any...

And I'm afraid you Legate have it right. They won't reveal themselves so we just have to pick them out one by one with inquiry and deduction. Hopefully with some nice schemes and tactical manouvers as well. But all that in turn is impossible if there is no wider partaking in the discussions.

So if you Balrogs won't co-operate with lining yourselves against the wall to be executed would you then please open your mouths?

And surely everyone else is encouraged to open their mouths as well...
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:33 PM   #9
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No point on blaming each other folks, as we know nothing for now. For all we know, it could be anyone of us.
But the question remains...who is it?
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:37 PM   #10
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Seconded indeed...

That's easy... I'm a fool-proof pure basic innocent.

Are you sure... if you think anything is fool-proof you are liable to find that someone has found a new class of fool.....

I suspect I may have to wait for tomorrow for much of significance..... due to the strange time zone issues that affect this part of Gondolin...
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:39 PM   #11
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So if you Balrogs won't co-operate with lining yourselves against the wall to be executed would you then please open your mouths?

And surely everyone else is encouraged to open their mouths as well...
Which reminds me, unfortunately, the first Day is going to be a little bit tight for me, because it may happen that I am not going to be around here at the deadline so I'd be bound to vote somewhat early (wasn't it also Tuesday the first day in Gil's game?). And that would be in the morning, which is about 10 hours from now, so, not much fun. So, this is one more reason for everyone to talk, so that I may choose my vote based on some real evidence and not just randomly.
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:27 PM   #12
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However, it should be borne in mind that many peole are reluctant to vote for someone wh hasn't said much, "who hasn't been around to defend themselves" etc...and the wolves.... (given that it is unlikely but not impossible that all wolves are first time players) will be aware of that. Obviously deliberate non participation is a dangerous strategy but this is a small group to face 3 werebeasts and a cobbler even with a ranger about.

The innocents can't afford to be too noble .... no one can be discounted, not the quiet, not the noisy, and certainly not the pseudo helpful not the flyers-under- the radar....

but if noone else is around I shall go to my rest...
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Old 11-12-2007, 03:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mith
but if noone else is around I shall go to my rest...
Well I'm around but there seems to be quite a little to pay heed to. I'll try anyhow. Just a moment.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:03 PM   #14
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As this seems to be quite sticky let's throw some balls around for catching... We should not play this game the way we have done this far but in a way actually trying to do something.

What has happened then so far?

Nogrod: Joking first post, tries to assert himself as the MC around here, at least in-characterwise. Very fishy indeed. And calls for the wet-haired one to explain her/his status? Now he must be up to something evil. I'd have all my red-alerts on at the moment. On second post he seemingly plays friendly with both Mith and Legate. That friendliness can be seen in his last post as well. And to top it all he seems to play with the possible innocense / guiltiness of himself in his second post - or the general fact of trusting / asking someone's word.

Mith: Starting with trying to make a jokingly warm relationship with Nogrod and indicating she might make the (safe!) vote for either Kath or Gil from tradition. That's as bad as saying one will vote by flipping a coin. No tracks left behind that is. Genuine wolf-tactics (Balrog-tactics): appeasing vocal players and backing up one's own vote forthcoming... On second post pure joking and passing the real discussion further. On third some general sense coupled with saying this and that cancelling each statement out = saying nothing. Looking helpful and villager-friendly while backing up her steps to come. Just what a balrog-Mith would do.

Legate: He calls people to speak but gives pretty little himself. Oh, how careful he is! Just look at them two posts! A joke, a storyline joke, making a comment on the undesirableness of non-posters, saying he won't be able to take part later in the Day, calling for people to talk so that he might make an educated deduction on what has been discussed. That is so carefully played... A balrog would mind his words that carefully.

The Might: Now what is this? What's the point of saying:
Quote:
No point on blaming each other folks, as we know nothing for now. For all we know, it could be anyone of us. But the question remains...who is it?
? And not saying anything else but that!
So looking very agreeable indeed - and stating nonconsequential trivialities? Wouldn't a balrog like to stage that kind of image of himself? Helpful-sounding & -feeling but noncommitant. Like from a werewolf-handbook!

Okay. I'm probably pretty wrong with a few around here and you may guess I'm not the most serious with these at this stage. But the point is, let's start making some advances towards creating real discussion. And with probabilities I might be right with one of the people posted this far...

And as I have said and acted so many times before: I'm more than happy to vote any non-posters out on the first Day if there are no good reasons to claim that a loudmouth actually is suspicious enough.

That sure is just my point of view.

But please do start talking fellows.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:06 PM   #15
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Well, I'm here, though I'm afraid I don't have too much to say. With fifteen of us, I was hoping it would be a bit noisier by now. I suppose we'll just have to wait around and see who shows up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen
The innocents can't afford to be too noble .... no one can be discounted, not the quiet, not the noisy, and certainly not the pseudo helpful not the flyers-under- the radar....
I agree. These werebalrogs could be hiding anywhere among us. Everyone must be watched closely, even the most innocent seeming or these newbies among us...

EDIT: X-ed with Nogrod
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Brinniel View Post
Well, I'm here, though I'm afraid I don't have too much to say. With fifteen of us, I was hoping it would be a bit noisier by now. I suppose we'll just have to wait around and see who shows up.
Isn't this just the problem? If everyone just pops in and says "oh, there's so little to say, let's wait if someone comes along", aren't we just postponing the actual start of the arguments - to back our own tails? If everyone acted like this we would be only blind-guessing at things. So people need to take risks, to commit themselves for the game to exist. Otherwise we could just run a lottery for votes and stop this posting altogether. But where's the fun then?

Like those people sitting alone in their car in the morning traffic-jam and swearing why all those other cars have to be there while they are part of the problem themselves...
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:40 PM   #17
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Okay, three werebalrogs, one cobbler, and a couple of lovers hidden somewhere. And then the standard three gifteds - and I hope there aren't any lovers there. But in any case, we innocent miners do stand a fighting chance.

I don't think we should give much heed to these lovers, at least not yet while the threat of the balrogs is still more immediate, but I'm quite sure they'll be male and female. And they would be carefully tiptoeing around each other in our presence lest they lose control and start displaying public displays of affection. Of course, now that I've mentioned that, they might instead openly and passionately disagree with each other. Bah, love. It's a nuisance.

Ehem. Where was I. Balrogs. There's no use throwing non-random suspicions if a lot still have not spoken up, so I will wait. I have some mining work to do that will take at least ten hours straight, anyway.
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:54 PM   #18
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Well, I have a feeling of déjà vu all over again! Something about this situation looks so familiar... I think I had a dream like this once, except that it involved Dr. Evil holding basketball games in a German university.
I can't say I agree with The Might. "No use blaming each other", eh? What do you suggest instead - blaming ourselves? That would look extremely cobblerish.
Then again, Nogrod seems to be doing just that. He has always been a sober and realistic werewolfer, not prone to wild conspiracy theories or in-character nonsense. What's good enough for Nogrod is good enough for me.
Therefore, I wholeheartedly suggest that we lynch Rikae. She has played ten games over the past year and has never been lynched - I say it's her turn. Besides, she is evil: she smashed my finger in a car door once. Oh, that's anachronistic - make it a van. She also is acting erratic and bizarre, which is clearly a sign of Balroggery.
Or, if you prefer, we could lynch 'the quiet ones':
Gil-Galad, Kath, Lhunardawen, Macalaure, Naria, Nerwen, satansaloser2005, Shastanis Althreduin and Volo. What the heck, we could throw in The Might, Rikae and Brinniel as well. Then again, that could be counter-productive.

Enough silliness. As the weaver, I am certain that Rikae is a balrog, and Mithalwen and Lhuna are her companions in crime.

++Rikae

EDIT - X'd with Lhuna
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Old 11-12-2007, 04:57 PM   #19
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What's the point of me saying that?
Well, I could just as well start thinking if Lhunardawen really means it when she says "we innocent miners" implying she's a good person or if she only wants to mislead us, or if it's reverse-reverse-reverse-psychology.
I personally wouldn't be so hasty so as to start such accusations, since really to little has been said.

See, now you could think I'm afraid you think I'm a bad guy and try to explain my last post hoping to make the night or maybe I'm simply telling my opinion.
Who knows? That's the point.

Unfortunately I must go off to bed now and I'm back tomorrow only an hour before the deadline, so I'm not sure if I'll manage to post anything but the vote before the night starts.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
Isn't this just the problem? If everyone just pops in and says "oh, there's so little to say, let's wait if someone comes along", aren't we just postponing the actual start of the arguments - to back our own tails? If everyone acted like this we would be only blind-guessing at things. So people need to take risks, to commit themselves for the game to exist. Otherwise we could just run a lottery for votes and stop this posting altogether. But where's the fun then?
Yes, but if I don't have much to say, then what am I supposed to say? I'd much rather drop in and make a few short serious comments than waste my time bantering.

I don't like to form my opinions on someone based on joking and bantering. It's really hard to know what to expect from it. And when several people do it, it's easy for a wolf (or balrog) to hide within that group. Often, I've found first Day mistakes are made from misinterpreted bantering and joking.

At least I've said something. I could've just not posted at all and waited for more people to come along and provide more substance (and I wouldn't be surprised if there are players doing that at this very moment).

EDIT: X-ed with Rikae and Might
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #21
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I must say, I agree with Brinniel on this one.
I'll take a look tomorrow and see if any posts have been made that might help make my decision.

Though I must say, Rikae has a very...special way of starting the game.
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Old 11-12-2007, 05:15 PM   #22
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Rikae, I know you're not being serious, but why would you waste your vote like that? Remember, there are no retractions.

Going suicidal is not going to help us find the werebalrogs...
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Old 11-12-2007, 07:43 PM   #23
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Sting

Greeting, my fellow-miners.

In principle, I'm inclined to suspect the "quiet ones". After all, if I were a werebalrog I'd be lying low at this point, waiting for somebody to accuse an innocent miner so I could jump on the bandwagon.

But we must remember that these mines are full of strange pockets of temporal anomaly. I, for example, have been trapped in one for several hours and have only recently been able to find my way out. So I don't think silence is incriminating– yet.

As everyone else has said, we don't have much to go on. And yet... and yet... I'd like to share my thoughts on Rikae's behaviour.

At first glance, her vote against herself appears to be either a joke or an act of self-sacrifice. But a single vote against her doesn't really endanger her very much. Let's look at its immediate effect– to divert suspicion from herself.

Witness other people's reactions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brinniel View Post
Rikae, I know you're not being serious, but why would you waste your vote like that? Remember, there are no retractions.

Going suicidal is not going to help us find the werebalrogs...
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Might View Post
Though I must say, Rikae has a very...special way of starting the game.
Of course, an innocent villager could also benefit from such a clever double bluff. I'm not accusing Rikae, just pointing out that we shouldn't be assuming she's not guilty.
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Old 11-12-2007, 10:11 PM   #24
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Indeed, Nerwen, Rikae's apparent self-sacrifice my be merely an attempt to divert suspicion, yet at the same time may just be her way of spicing up the game. I have yet to decide if she is harboring balrog tendencies or if she's just baking up some cobbler with which to bait the balrogs. My apologies, I like to make stupid jokes.


I, on the other hand, am quite certain of my standing as a poor miner, although I realize I could do nothing to convince you, my fellow villagers, of such things. In the meantime, I shall simply watch and wait, and perhaps even stumble over a balrog or two over the course of the day's voting and discussion.



p.s. what are the odds I could be listed in the village numbers as sally? just because my full username is so long. i may change it, but i'm not really sure if i can yet or not. i'm going to go investigate that
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
I have yet to decide if she is harboring balrog tendencies or if she's just baking up some cobbler with which to bait the balrogs. My apologies, I like to make stupid jokes.
*scratches head* Er... don't get it, Sally. I think we have a language problem. Do you mean you think she's the cobbler, or that she's acting as a target in the hope of drawing the balrogs into the open?

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Old 11-12-2007, 11:33 PM   #26
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Hello and welcome, all ye merry gentlemen.

Or something.

I'd just like to say that I have arrived, and find Rikae's vote to be extremely odd, given the "no retractions" rule.

Rikae? A comment?
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Old 11-12-2007, 11:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
Which reminds me, unfortunately, the first Day is going to be a little bit tight for me, because it may happen that I am not going to be around here at the deadline so I'd be bound to vote somewhat early (wasn't it also Tuesday the first day in Gil's game?). And that would be in the morning, which is about 10 hours from now, so, not much fun. So, this is one more reason for everyone to talk, so that I may choose my vote based on some real evidence and not just randomly.
Yup, it was. Like in the preveous game, I'll be able to play only near the end of the Day. Timewise the game is uncomfortable for me... I might get to a computer during the Day for a short time.

Anyway, no unthought accusations from me, yet.
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:30 AM   #28
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All right, seems at least something is starting to happen. The main crisis is behind us.

Nogrod, as always, had a very nice "kick in". Now, of course, the problem is that with him, you never know whether he seems joking, helpful, or whatever he just seems, because he is joking, helpful or whatever; or because he is hiding behind this mask. But personally, he gives out "normal" vibes to me, at least nothing too suspicious.

Brinniel seems quite all right to me, with her reaction to Nogrod - I believe a guilty Brinn would act differently.

Now Rikae... I can quite imagine her looks when she was posting that, she was laughing aloud - but then it's still the question whether she is a cobbler (Nerwen, I believe cobbler is some sort of a pie or something... is that correct?) or something else...
And I would like to bring forward that she's lying (about not being lynched in ten previous games): I can remember very well that in the first game I was playing, she was lynched the first day. And that was, if I'm correct, WW XXX, so it's only nine games ago.

The Might is a new one around here, so there is nothing much to compare his behavior with. He has this interesting double-triple-whatever-combination theory that I know very well (using that often ), but this does not signify anything by itself, only a style of playing (maybe). It will need more input. I'm a little bit afraid to let this out of my lips, because people may start sticking to that, and some balrogs the most, and that's not good; but I'll be probably reluctant to vote for someone of the new ones on the first day. Though, it is true that this far, they all seem quite active (or at least, make that impression), so maybe with enough input, there will be enough evidence to lynch one of them even toDay

But sally and Nerwen, to this point, seem quite genuine to me. Maybe sally... I don't know, maybe it's his style, the second paragraph of his post does not fit the whole frame of his post, or so it seems to me... we all know that saying "I am innocent" is the most ambivalent thing to be done... but whatever. Let's wait yet.

Heck, I don't have time now, have to leave. But I will be back in a few hours, finish my thoughts (mainly on Rikae, for I did not have chance to finish it all; and on Mith, about whom I'll surely say something), and then probably vote.
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:40 AM   #29
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So far:

Nogrod- So far, most of him posts seem to be banter. Up until he criticises the "just dropping in" posts that have little substance. Could be a balrog hiding among harmless joking, but at this point it is hard to say.

Mithalwen- Taps in on the thought that we cannot discard anyone; non-participation could be a strategy. Not sure what to think...I alway have a hard time forming opinions of Mith, and usually when I do, I am wrong.

Lhuna- Haven't really heard from her except for her comment on lovers.

Legate- Appears to be the most helpful poster so far. And I happen to agree with mostly what he says. At this point, he doesn't ring any alarms.

Might-

Quote:
Well, I could just as well start thinking if Lhunardawen really means it when she says "we innocent miners" implying she's a good person or if she only wants to mislead us, or if it's reverse-reverse-reverse-psychology.
Okay, I find this quote here to be rather confusing. I don't want to simply disregard newbies, but I don't know Might's style, so I'm not sure whether this confusing behaviour is suspicious or not...

Volo- So far, he has given no real substance.

Nerwen- I do agree with her thoughts on Rikae. So far, she gives off an innocentish vibe.

Shasta- Comments on Rikae's self-vote. Otherwise, no real substance.

Sally- At first I was really confused with her cobbler comment because I thought she was talking about the cobbler role, but now I realise she was just creating a metaphor with dessert. Silly me.

Anyways, I don't get any vibes from her just yet, but I would like to hear more from her.

Rikae- Oh, Rikae. I think her post was meant to cause controversy, and certainly it has. The possibilites:

-She is an innocent who either doesn't care much for her own survival, or she simply won't be able to return before deadline, therefore she chooses to accuse herself rather than point fingers at random players for no real reason.
-She is a cobbler and is trying to confuse us all (and hey, it's working).
-She is a balrog who thinks her self-vote will be viewed as too attention drawing and foolish to actually be suspicious and disregarded by most players.

Err...I'm not sure what to think. I really hope she comes back to explain herself.

So far, Gil, Mac, Kath, and Naria have yet to speak. I really hope they do turn up; we can't afford yet another game of no-shows.

It's way too late and I must go to bed now. Just a heads up: I have to vote 2 1/2 hours early. So if you have something to say, say it before then.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:00 AM   #30
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Huh? What? Nothing happened while I was away? Or are you all waiting for me to finish? How nice of you.

So, a few more thoughts. First, Rikae:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerwen
At first glance, her vote against herself appears to be either a joke or an act of self-sacrifice. But a single vote against her doesn't really endanger her very much. Let's look at its immediate effect– to divert suspicion from herself.
Hmm... it may be so. One could say, having in mind what you said, that she is really asking to be lynched. You want to be lynched? Okay, we'll give you that! If you are a cobbler, no harm done. If you are a balrog, here we go - we caught you! However, this point of view would be a little oblivious to the possibility that Rikae is innocent. Personally, I don't see an ordo Rikae likely to risk in such a manner in order to divert suspicion from herself (if anything, it would have to be a joke). However, since she did not comment on her behavior this far, one cannot drop in too much conclusions...

Second, Mithalwen. There is something on her behavior that seems a little bit... confusing to me (or is it: confused?). That sort of a jumpylooking-jokinglyaccusing-nothingsaying-deepvalleyblack-deepvalleyforested gloomyland, err, wait, that was something else... anyway; what was I saying, her posts seem, well yes, confusing. Though on second look, there is something of real value inside them (like what she says about some people not willing to lynch the ones who did not have the chance to speak), but nevertheless, it's confusing.

People like Shasta, Volo, and who knows who else was here and slips under my radar, is slipping under my radar, for there was hardly anything that caught my attention about them. Now if that itself could be taken as a sign of danger... I'm leaving this thought to others. Currently, I'm afraid that I don't have ANY high suspect, which is really bad.
Oh, now, really! I just noticed one person whom I totally left out. Lhuna is one of those I have not noticed at all. Interesting. *points up* What does that say, that either I am just oblivious or that she is so inconspicious... (maybe intentionally...)

But, good news at least, it looks like I'll be able to make it for the DL after all, even though it might be in a hurry, but still I believe something that will point me in some direction may show up meanwhile.

And where are those who did not post at all yet?

EDIT: just x-ed with Brinn. Shame, you destroyed the effect of my opening of the post, having two posts in line...
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:49 AM   #31
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I don't have much time right now, but here are a few thoughts.


Nogrod is a little too happy for my liking. He ridiculously over-analyses the first 10 posts, making it look like a parody of "looking helpful while not being helpful". I can see his traffic-jam argument, but something about him doesn't entirely sit right with me - at least this early. We'll see.


I'm tempted to call "cobbler" on Rikae, but I can't help but to think she would play that role differently, staying calm and waiting to make a devastating impact late in the game. Rikae, my dear, you leave me confused.
Good points about her by Nerwen and Legate.


The Might says little and then snaps at the first little suspicion against him. Though it's not very helpful, it feels rather innocent.

Brinn starts by saying nothing and only agreeing. She then snaps at the first criticism, too. In her case, it seems less innocent than in TM's. Her later thoughts appear much better, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhuna
There's no use throwing non-random suspicions if a lot still have not spoken up
There isn't?
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:56 AM   #32
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I'm here, but I won't be for long I'm afraid. I've got to get on a train in about an hour and then I won't be able to get on a computer before the deadline. It's going to mean a very early vote though, so time to look at what's been going on.

Noggie ~ I'm tempted to try and kill him off already just to keep the number of pages down! Has posted nothing while posting a lot. Keeps calling for people to talk which, yeah, great, but we know that and after the third post asking for chat you don't really need to do it again. Plus, that post that concluded everyone he'd looked at was a possible balrog? I don't know, maybe it's just his playing style this game, but it's making me suspicious.

Mith ~ Being a little down in the dumps, but then the numbers often look bad from the start.

Legate ~ The xyzzy comment, am I missing something? Seems to have the opposite opinion of Noggie to me, but then so do most people usually. He is being a bit pedantic about Rikae though. 9 games is very close to 10. Maybe there was a miscount, or he missed a junior game. It just feels like suspecting for the sake of suspecting.

The Might ~ Has definitely picked up 'how to be confusing' from someone. I'd say Nilp but it looks like Rikae it the one who has taken advice from him!

Brinn ~ I'm liking her posts. Straightforward and not worrying a point to death.

Lhuna ~ I think we might be wise to follow Lhuna's advice on lovers. She's been one so many times she probably does know how to deal with them! Of course, she knows how to deal with them from the inside so we might actually want to do the opposite of whatever she says!

Rikae ~ Well, as I said, someone's been taking lessons from Nilp! Are you one who dislikes Day 1's or did you just have no time and decide to vote for yourself because so few people had spoken?

Nerwen ~ Not sure I understand her. She said Rikae voting for herself was a way to divert suspicion, and then asks us to look at others reactions as proof of that. Yet if we look at Brinn's reaction in particular there is definitely no diverting of suspicion there, more the opposite. I would actually say it was an attempt to divert suspicion from other people if there's anything sinister at all. Perhaps Rikae is the cobbler? Unlikely to draw attention to herself so early on though.

Sally ~ Had the thought about Rikae being the cobbler too. But also says 'oh yes, I'm an innocent' right from the start, which just immediately makes me suspect her.

Shasta ~ Mentions Rikae's vote.

Volo ~ Pops up with an excuse for not being here but adds nothing constructive.

Mac ~ Well, I have some support for my suspicion of Noggie at least. His points seem pretty well made.

We have, what, three newbies this game? The Might, Sally and Nerwen. Unless one of them actually comes out and says 'I'm a balrog, please lynch me' I'm pretty much going to ignore them in terms of possible lynchees for toDay at least because I've been killed first Day as a newbie and it sucks.

Otherwise my suspects seem to consist of Noggie, Legate and very possibly Lhuna. Ignore the lovers she says, perhaps too bold for someone who actually is one, but it's still worth looking at.

Now, since I really do have to go and he is my top suspect:

++NOGGIE
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure View Post
I don't have much time right now, but here are a few thoughts.

I'm tempted to call "cobbler" on Rikae, but I can't help but to think she would play that role differently, staying calm and waiting to make a devastating impact late in the game. Rikae, my dear, you leave me confused.
Well, I don't really know any of you people yet, but I agree that it doesn't make sense for the cobbler to try and get lynched at this point.

On the other hand, if she merely wants to get us hopelessly confused... it's working.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:22 AM   #34
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Very quick post ..... Either Nog is over analysing or suspicious ..... I am not that calculating believe me ... I just believe one should particiapate as much as possible and in the early hours of the game stating ther only thing to talk about was the basic situation and possibilities (apart to flippant refs to those who have bamboozled me in the past). Given the non retractable votes I thought it particulary important to remind of a few possibilities...

RIkae -Cobbler? crazy or genius? discuss....
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:44 AM   #35
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Oh Kath... you're on it again.

I've only had time to skim through the posting toDay and need to attend a meeting in half an hour. I will be back with hopefully more elaborate points then for the last couple of hours of the Day and with some actual time to do something.

This far I'm feeling pretty good about Brinn and Nerwen. They both have made good points and contributed to important questions. Same could be said of Legate as well, but with him I would be a step more cautious.

Shasta and Volo I'm a bit disappointed about this far but I hope they will straighten their backs and get into the fray yet toDay.

Of those posted I'm somewhat worried over Rikae, Mith and Lhuna, possibly Sally too.

With Rikae it's pretty clear she's no gifted so in a sense we can lynch her with no fear of losing an important aiding role to us. But Rikae can be an important aid as a player when the game gets going. So I'm a bit reluctant to vote her on Day1.

Mith I talked about earlier and must say I still have the same points that bother me. But that's somewhat weak in any case.

Lhuna just feels foul. I don't know why in any analytical measures. Maybe it's because she has once already tricked me by being just like she is now - going under radar as a sensible person and then on the right moment attacking ruthlessly. I may counting too much on my previous experiences though.

Sally's way of discussing Rikae can easily be read as a balrog-defence of another balrog. Also her point that she is "quite certain" about her innocense sounds odd indeed. But that's not much I admit.

Sorry. Have to go now. I'll be back.
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:39 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure View Post
Nogrod is a little too happy for my liking. He ridiculously over-analyses the first 10 posts, making it look like a parody of "looking helpful while not being helpful". I can see his traffic-jam argument, but something about him doesn't entirely sit right with me - at least this early. We'll see.
Nogrod is a bit too happy, but that seems normal. I don't think he there is anything alarming in his actions -exept for the promise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggie
Well I'm around but there seems to be quite a little to pay heed to. I'll try anyhow. Just a moment.
After which he writes a joke analysis that I wouldn't call contributing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath View Post
Volo ~ Pops up with an excuse for not being here but adds nothing constructive.
I thought of posting that in the admin-thread, but decided to put it here as I quoted Legate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod View Post
With Rikae it's pretty clear she's no gifted so in a sense we can lynch her with no fear of losing an important aiding role to us. But Rikae can be an important aid as a player when the game gets going. So I'm a bit reluctant to vote her on Day1.
Yeah, no way is she gifted. She might be a cobbler, though it feels more like a trick of an ordo. Good that she did that on Day1 and not later on when time and thought really is precious.

I'll try posting more in an hour or so, after I get home.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:09 AM   #37
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I think there is quite a bit which can be seen from the way people deal with Rikae.

There's the baffled ones, like TM, Shasta, Sally, Kath.

There's the analysers, like Legate, Brinniel, and Nerwen.

Their reactions are the common ones and, I think, rather unsuspicious.

Then there's Nogrod and Volo. I don't like the argument that Rikae is in no way gifted. I don't think we can be entirely sure. The argument also has an aftertaste of "She's not gifted, so when in doubt, we can lynch her without much of a loss." Even though they both denies this, it's in there nevertheless. I'm not saying Rikae is innocent, by no means, but by talking like this we're running in danger of making her an easy target for convenient throwaway-votes from which we cannot deduce anything tomorrow.

I'm also a wary of Mith, who mainly points out a just how confusing Rikae is, while (yet) contributing little to de-confuse. One could get the idea she urge us to discuss her so we won't get to discuss the more important matter of who the balrogs are. Nerwen pointed out her confusion once too often, too.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:09 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
"She's not gifted, so when in doubt, we can lynch her without much of a loss."
More of "Don't kill her at Night"... So to be honest, I don't see why a Gifted wouldn't bluff like that, if an ordo would.

I am somewhat suspicious of this Mac-person (Though last time I did so, I was wrong...)

Nerwen on the other hand feels the most innocent.

Just gut-feeling.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macalaure View Post
I don't like the argument that Rikae is in no way gifted. I don't think we can be entirely sure. The argument also has an aftertaste of "She's not gifted, so when in doubt, we can lynch her without much of a loss." Even though they both denies this, it's in there nevertheless. I'm not saying Rikae is innocent, by no means, but by talking like this we're running in danger of making her an easy target for convenient throwaway-votes from which we cannot deduce anything tomorrow.
One cannot be sure about anything practically. Your point looks like a well considered one. And as I said, I'm reluctant to vote for Rikae toDay anyway. If innocent, she can be of great help to us and that overweights my possible suspicions about her self-vote toDay (at least for the time being).

But.

Most of us have already said something on the subject and thence changing one's point of view to make a "safe" vote would be looked carefully toMorrow if Rikae would be lynched and turns out innocent. So not so safe after all. Also: everytime people make points about others there's a chance that some vile creatures might go and hide behind that reasoning to vote "safe". So I'm not sure about the validity of that argument.

Now Mac may have his personal reasons to be the gallant knight rescuing his maiden. And that's just sweet. I hope there are no other darker reasons behind that.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:36 AM   #40
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Houston, we have a problem!

What I don't like right now is that we have basically no candidates for lynching and it is 2½ hours to the deadline. Rikae has been suspected, I've received a vote (Kath's remarkably fishy one... I'll explain this thought in my next post) and Mith has been suspected as well by a few.

We'd need two-four believable candidates so that the choices people make would leave some tracks as there would be an actual and meaningful choice involved.

If we just run rampant at the last hour it easily leads to a confusing band-waggoning which will leave us absolutely trackless toMorrow.

Also: no sight of Gil or Naria... As always I'd rather vote for someone who's not going to play rather than vote a person who actually plays unless there are good grounds on voting certain person of course.
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