Gandalf a Madman?

[Baran]

This may cause some controversy, but I say my favourite character, Gandalf, was a crazy man! Mad! A Lunatic!

Here si my reasoning:
Think about it, he sent Frodo on the way into the very heart of Mordor. Only with unbelievable luck several times did they reach Mt. Doom. And there Frodo was supposed to do a task no-one could do, cast the ring into the flames, none of the creatures in Middle-Earth could have done this, maybe not even the Valar. Several things could have gone wrong, from killing Gollum to being caught by a band of Orcs. The odds of succeding were many millions to one.
There is only two solutions, either Gandalf was a genius, who could predict the future, and knew what was going to happen (and this he couldn't), or he was raving mad.

You can say that there were no alternative, Sauron would have won the war and gotten the ring anyway, I say that fighting a war against Sauron, even when outnoumbered 100 to 1 would have been wiser.

The only real argument against this, is of course that Frodo succeded... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: Baran ]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Yes Gandalf may seem crazy to do this but think about it. He's usually right about these things. And you should expect the unexpected when reading about Gandalf. The reason Gandalf sent Frodo to bear the ring was because Frodo was a hobbit, and hobbits have a resiliance to the power of the ring. Since hobbits are a simple race, its harder to confuse them and harder to trick them, unlike the other races, who being more complex, are confused easier. But Gandalf did not send Frodo to Mordor, Frodo chose to do it himself. And Gandalf did not choose the path, he fell in Moria and when he returned, Frodo was well on his way. Gandalf thought that if Frodo would bring it to mordor and destroy it, then maybe sauron would be too caught up dealing with Gondor to notice Frodo, which is exactly what happened.

I don't think that Gandalf could predict the future but I do think that he could predict what was going to happen (what I mean is that he could make good guesses about the future but he couldn't see it). I do think that he could sense things coming. I think that he was smart enough to have a hunch about things and since he was usually right about it, he got good at it. This made him a geniuos and is why he has good judgement.

I do think that although Gandalf is wise, he is crazy. Think about it like this, he's supposed to be a well regarded wizard but he spends his free time hanging out with hobbits smoking weed. That's crazy (its also tight though). But you think that Gandalf is crazy because he puts the fate of middle-earth in the hands of a hobbit and sends him off to mordor unguided. Well that is crazy and it is smart. but hey, sometimes crazy works; and it did.

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Baran]

But Gandalf did not send Frodo to Mordor, Frodo chose to do it himself. And Gandalf did not choose the path, he fell in Moria and when he returned, Frodo was well on his way. Gandalf thought that if Frodo would bring it to mordor and destroy it, then maybe sauron would be too caught up dealing with Gondor to notice Frodo, which is exactly what happened.

Even without Gandalf there, the plan had always been for Frodo to trow the ring into Mt. Doom.

And what is the use of sending Frodo to the fire if he uncapable of throwing the ring into it? He couldn't even throw it into the fireplace in his own house in Hobbiton! Madnes I tell you!

I also think Gandalf could make a good guess of the future, but I don't think he could know that Gollum would bite Frodo's finger off and fall into the fire. If you could predict the future, why worry about it? And Gandalf did a whole lot of worrying.

It would of course have been much better to use the ring against Sauron, why send this gift to the land of Mordor, straigh into the hands of Sauron? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: Baran ]

[Manwe Sulimo]

Does anyone else think it's weird how, with his last breath, Gandalf insults the Fellowship?

Fly, you fools

This may be some insight to his state of mind....

[Neferchoirwen]

Insane, yes, yet in a wise way.

To all of my $0.02 in a nutshell, Gandalf's decisions do not seem appealing, but all of his decisions show that wisdom does not need an obvious logic to by.

Kinda like our parents sending us to school...but that is something entirely different. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: Neferchoirwen ]

[Kalessin]

Yes, here is my take ...

Gandalf = Mad
Sauron = Bad
Frodo = Sad
Sam = Glad
Saruman = Cad
Elrond = Dad
Galadriel = Trad(itional)
Legolas = Rad(ical, dude)
Gimli = Pad(ded, it's all I could think of)

... er, that's it [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Kalessin

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: Kalessin ]

[-Imrahil-]

First of all Gandalf was planning on being with Frodo to the end. And in the case that Frodo could NOT throw the ring into Mt Doom I am quite sure Gandalf would have forcefully taken it and thrown it in himself. He is not crazy, hopeful perhaps, trusting, but not crazy.

[willkill4food]

No one can really know if gandalf intended for frodo and sam to go to mordor alone...in the very first pages of frodo and sam in the two towers, Sam says "Gandalf did not intend for us to go this way"

The original plan was for the entire fellowship to get to where they were attacked by orcs (cant remember name), and then decide what to do from there..but since gandalf was dead, they could not decide, for most of the fellowship wished to go to gondor..

Maybe gandalf wanted the entire fellowship to go to gondor, maybe he wanted them all to go to gondor, but I do not think he is crazy, because gandalf had no say in frodo going to mordor with only sam...

-willkill

[Orual]

Crazy? Only in the way that all geniuses are, darling. Forget the fine line. It doesn't exist. Brilliant people are crazy. Crazy's not a bad thing, it just is.

As for Gandalf's wisdom in entrusting the Ring to Frodo, it wasn't only his intuition that pointed to Frodo; Elrond also agreed with it. And nobody else stood up and said "Are you all NUTS??? This is madness! Give the Ring to someone else!" It seemed like it was Frodo or no one. True, sometimes Gandalf's wisdom in things wasn't apparent on face value, but it always turned out well in the end. I think that his intuition was finely tuned and rarely wrong, even when reason seemed to suggest the opposite of what he decided. Galadriel put it best, but I can't quite remember what she said. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

That's my two cents.

~*~Orual~*~

Baran-
I can see where you're coming from, and I do think that Gandalf was definitly taking a risk, but I disagree w/ what you said, too!
-Now, it was true that the odds WERE "one to many million"- and it is true that Frodo completed the task that no other Middle Earth creatures could have.
-BUT... with all this in mind, how could you say it was by "unbelievable luck several times" that Frodo suceeded???
(LOTR may be set in a fantastic setting, but the principles are true to real-life... people just dont defeat odds like that by CHANCE!!)
-Obviously, it wasn't luck or just like a freak chance thing by which Frodo suceeded, it was the kind of thing that HAD to happen and was just meant to happen! (imagine if it hadn't...)
-Gandalf recognized this and in complete faith(and i guess a little insanity [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), he sent Frodo.
SO, think that through and let me hear what you have to say [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] !

[Merri]

Does anyone else think it's weird how, with his last breath, Gandalf insults the Fellowship?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fly, you fools
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This may be some insight to his state of mind....

Manwe, Gandalf wasn't insulting the Fellowship when he said that. He knew they'd want to stay behind and try to rescue him. That's what he meant by calling them fools, I think.

[Baran]

First of all Gandalf was planning on being with Frodo to the end. And in the case that Frodo could NOT throw the ring into Mt Doom I am quite sure Gandalf would have forcefully taken it and thrown it in himself. He is not crazy, hopeful perhaps, trusting, but not crazy.

I very much doubt Gandalf would have been able to throw the ring into the fire himself. Remember the power of the ring was much stronger in Mordor. Either Gandalf underestimated the power of the ring, or he was raving mad.

No one can really know if gandalf intended for frodo and sam to go to mordor alone...

It wouldn't have made any difference if the whole fellowhip went with them, Frodo would still have been unable to throw the ring into the fire.

And nobody else stood up and said "Are you all NUTS??? This is madness! Give the Ring to someone else!" It seemed like it was Frodo or no one

I agree that Frodo was the perfect ringbearer, but I say taking the ring to Mordor to destroy it was madnes! When they first decided to do this, few or none could have done it better than Frodo, and he was unable to throw it into the fire!!

BUT... with all this in mind, how could you say it was by "unbelievable luck several times" that Frodo suceeded???

Let me see... They weren't killed by old man Willow, Frodo wasn't killed by the Ringwraith, they weren't killed by the Balrog, Gollum was nearly killed several times (if Sam had been the ringbearer they wouldn't have made it, he would have killed Gollum), they were nearly discovered by orcs several times. And of course the ending were Gollum bites of Frodos finger but fall into the fire himself. I admit not all of this is luck, but it all adds up into pretty unbelievable odds.

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

Well said Baran.

Perhaps madness...or maybe Gandalf just had faith. Either way, one heck of a risk.

[Kalimac]

Ah, that Gandalf. Mad, bad and dangerous to know, as the Romantics might have said.

I wouldn't call him mad, just brave. Consider Horatius at the bridge; here he was, confronting impossible odds and pretty much guaranteeing his own decease. Did anyone call him crazy? No, and the reason they didn't was because there was NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE.

When you get right down to it, there wasn't much else Gandalf could do. Take it himself? Um, no. Hide it in Rivendell, palm it off on the Elves if possible, or (early on) pray that Sauron never heard the word "Shire"? These are all plans of inaction, basically just delaying the inevitable - one of these days, Sauron would find out where the Shire was (as indeed he did) and then it would all be over. Even Rivendell and Lorien would have fallen eventually once Sauron had found out that the Ring was there and he had laid siege to them. As for giving it to a person - paradoxically, the more exalted and powerful anyone in ME was, the quicker they would fall under its power. Galadriel and Gandalf resisted, but keeping the Ring in close proximity to them would have been like continually yanking the chain of a very nasty pit bull - one of these days it might escape, and then where would you be?

Gandalf also realized that Sauron would never believe that the Wise would let the Ring go off with two non-magical and not terribly powerful little people. They almost say as much in ROTK - something to the effect that two little hobbits sneaking into Mordor are not something that Sauron is expecting, and thus paradoxically much more likely to make it than, say, Galadriel or Glorfindel, whom we can be sure the Eye has been careful to keep watch on.

As for Frodo not being able to throw it in at the last - I think Gandalf may have yielded slightly to a mentality of "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it." After all, he may have reasoned, there was nobody else whom he could trust to even make a reasonable attempt at getting to Mount Doom, and once they're actually AT the mountain, well - who knows what might happen after all. And when you get right down to it, there's no way Gollum could have accidentally stumbled into the Cracks if the Ringbearer had given in somewhere around Emyn Muil.

[Guildo]

Gandalf not mad but reminds me much of my late grand father, willing to scold you and put you in your place when you are wrong, as well as being a bit bitter at the fact that "they dont raise them like they used to" yet he loves you more than daylight and there is nothing he enjoys more than to have you set on his lap as he tells you stories of old.

[Sauron999]

very much has been said here so far so i just want to comment on "Gandalf and throwing the ring in the fire himself".
i think that the moment Gandalf touched the ring in Mordor the desire to use it would become too strong for him. so... what possibility does remain?
let's say: Frodo claims to be the ruler of the ring, Sauron notices, he sends his ringwraiths to Mount Doom in a final effort. Gandalf knows that. And he knows that he must do something VERY quickly. He also knows that he MUST NOT touch the ring.
So what's left to do? Throw Frodo AND the ring into the fire. Not because he hates Frodo or sth like that, of course.
But if I were Gandalf i would rather sacrifice Frodo for Middle-Earth than whole Middle-Earth for Frodo. Seems a rather hard decision, but I think something like that would have happened.
Btw, hiya burrahobbit, Sharku, Heren, and the Wight himself. And burrak, don't panic, I'm back and I will post as often as possible [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Yes, but Gandalf was a Maia and so he understood Eru’s purposes more fully then others, and he knew that the hobbits would succeed. He refers to Sauron being a ‘wise fool’ because he doesn’t even contemplate the notions that two Hobbits would come into his impregnable fortress and actually throw away the ring. Sauron had become, in a sense a pacifist. He believed that although god did exist (he had probably seen him with his own eyes, before or during the music), he wouldn’t interfere with his affairs, and M-E was Saurons for the taking, hence Saurons stupid mistakes. (I.e., he thought that Sam and Frodo were spies.) Gandalf needed to the exact opposite of what Sauron would’ve done and that was the only way they could’ve beaten him. It was not mad, it was genius. Of course foresight played a large part in it too. Most elves and Maiar have large abundance of foresight. For example, who the hell would send 14 Dwarfs and a Hobbit to take some treasure off a mighty dragon. Gandalf even tells Thorin Oakenshield that the quest would fail unless Bilbo went with them, saying that a great foresight was on him.

[Curulin]

hello there.
personally, i do not think gandlaf is mad at all, quite the opposite, i think he's a very foresighted genius. however, he was an ainur, so its not entirely surprising.
anyway, about him being foresighted, i think thats certainly very true. his name in valinor was Olorin, coming from the elvish prefix "olor" which was a type of very clear dream or preminition, so this fits in nicely... hen he was in valinor he often wen around the elves unseen putting these preminitons into their heads, so im sure he was capable of having them himself, even if he was constricted to human form.
Im upset that anyone could have doubted gandlaf' sanity, he's the maiar...

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

I agree with Sauron999, Gandalf would have been unable to throw the Ring into the Crack of Doom had he been the one in possession of it at that point. The idea being that whoever possesses the Ring would be unable to throw it in, but someone not possessing it could throw the possessor in with it…..if that makes any sense.

So what's left to do? Throw Frodo AND the ring into the fire.

Now that is a pretty interesting idea that I hadn’t thought of before. That is probably exactly what Gandalf would have done if forced to the choice.

Something to think about though: Cirdan and Elrond were present with Isildur when he cut the Ring from Sauron’s hand. They did not force Isildur to destroy it, and they did not attempt to throw Isildur in. Could the Ring have been influencing Cirdan and Elrond even though they were not in possession of it? I realize Isildur had his soldiers about him and all that, but you would think that would be worth the risk in order to destroy Sauron.

Yes, but Gandalf was a Maia and so he understood Eru’s purposes more fully then others, and he knew that the hobbits would succeed.

I agree that Gandalf had better understanding of Eru’s purposes, but I don’t think he knew Frodo and Sam would succeed. He knew they were the best candidates to bear the Ring, and he did what he could to give them the best chance at success, but I don’t think he was certain of the outcome. I think Gandalf was operating on faith quite a bit, especially after he was separated from the Fellowship in Moria.

I don't think Gandalf was a madman, but I bet his nerves were a little fried there toward the end [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

[Birdland]

I can't believe that Gandalf would have thrown Frodo into the hideous fires of Mt. Doom. No way!

He would have simply cut off Frodo's hand, and thrown that into the fire.

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

Call me a hair splitter maybe but....if Gandalf cut off Frodo's hand, would he not then be the possessor of the Ring? And then not be able to throw it in.....?

[Sauron999]

No, because he doesn't touch the ring.
And next question: If Gandalf threw the Ring (with or without parts of Frodo) into the fire, what would happen then?
Unless the eagles weren't abroad because Gandalf has told them before, the Fellowship or what's left of it would die at Mount Doom. What do you think would happen?

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

I'd argue that if he cut off Frodo's hand, he would be then the possessor of the Ring. He has taken it by force. In all other instances where Gandalf handles the Ring, it is given to him. Possession remains with the giver. I don't think possession is a simple matter of just touching it.

Like I said, maybe hair splitting.

[Lush]

Pardon me, but I think that calling Gandalf a madman is a bit like calling Tolkien a madman. Because it all worked out in the end. What exactly are we debating here again? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Guildo]

"BILBO BAGGINS, DONT TAKE ME FOR SOME CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS"

i think if he would have done that to Frodo as he did to Bilbo, frodo would have more willingly thrown it in.

[Baran]

"BILBO BAGGINS, DONT TAKE ME FOR SOME CONJURER OF CHEAP TRICKS"
i think if he would have done that to Frodo as he did to Bilbo, frodo would have more willingly thrown it in.

And I think you are underestimating the power of the Ring. Frodo would never have thrown it into the fire, not even with Gandalf there. Look how crazy he got when Sam just talked about carrying it for him. It would have to be taken from him by force.

None of you are convincing me Gandalf had the slightes idea of what he was doing when deciding to send Frodo with the ring to Mt. Doom.

He would have simply cut off Frodo's hand, and thrown that into the fire.

How do you cut of a hand you don't see? Remember, in the book Frodo put on the ring at once after claiming it.

And next question: If Gandalf threw the Ring (with or without parts of Frodo) into the fire, what would happen then? Unless the eagles weren't abroad because Gandalf has told them before, the Fellowship or what's left of it would die at Mount Doom. What do you think would happen?

They would probably die, but that is quite uninteresting, and has nothing to do with the Topic.

Pardon me, but I think that calling Gandalf a madman is a bit like calling Tolkien a madman. Because it all worked out in the end.

If I bet all my money on the lottery with odds many millions to one, and actually win, am I an genius or a very, very lucky fool?
Or play Russian rulette with a bullet in every chamber except one. Just imagine many million chambers. Not very wise.

[Orual]

Hindsight is 20/20, Baran, and we know everything that happened from the forging of the Ring to its destruction. Gandalf didn't; he was a Maia, but he couldn't see the future. He gave the Ring to Frodo because there was no one else, and it had to be destroyed. As for relying on luck, doesn't everybody? Hop in your car and get on the street, and only luck is keeping you from being sideswiped by a drunk driver. Frodo was, as they might say on Babylon 5, Middle-earth's last, best hope. Nobody else could have taken it. Gandalf and Elrond set it up so as to help Frodo as much as possible, but only a Hobbit--and most likely only Frodo--could have kept the Ring without succumbing very quickly to its power. Sure, luck was involved. But luck is always involved. Gandalf weighed the odds and knew they were poor, but he did all that he could. He wasn't perfect, but he wasn't an idiot, either. A lot was expected of him, and he couldn't be all things to all people in all places. He would've gone to Mordor with Sam and Frodo, and perhaps less luck would've been involved if he had. But circumstances proved ill for that. So I think that Gandalf did, as he had said, the best he could with the time that he was given in the circumstances.

~*~Orual~*~

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

Well said Orual. But in place of the idea of luck, I would say Gandalf had faith. Faith in Eru's plan, and faith that Frodo was the best one for the job.

Gandalf was not willingly separated from Frodo and Sam, so to say he was mad because he sent them alone is a theory built on a false premise.

I say that fighting a war against Sauron, even when outnoumbered 100 to 1 would have been wiser.

How is fighting a hopeless war wiser? That's like playing Russian Roulette with a bullet in EVERY chamber, to use your analogy.

What would have happened to the rest of the world if Gandalf had not been there? Grima needed to be gotten rid of, Saruman delt with, the Lord of the Nazgul on Pellenor, etc. Gandalf had things to do other than babysit Hobbits in a plzce where all he would have probably done is drawn more attention to them. Without Gandalf there might not have been much left of Gondor even though the Ring was destroyed. All those Orcs and Easterlings didn't just *POOF* disappear when the Ring went in, so who would have delt with them?

[Baran]

How can you justifie sending the ring to Mt. Doom when the only possible solution to actualy throw it into the fire is by accident?

[Lush]

Faith is all about believing in accidents...or miracles, which could just be another term for accidents anyway.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

How can you justifie sending the ring to Mt. Doom when the only possible solution to actualy throw it into the fire is by accident?

Let's look at the options, shall we?

1: Throw the Ring into the sea or some huge fissure, or otherwise dispose of it without destroying it.

2: Lock the Ring in some deep dungeon or treasure-house and guard it constantly to keep it from Sauron.

3: Destroy the Ring.

Now, the second option is clearly insane, not only owing to the effect that the Ring has on its owner and on those close to it, but also because Sauron has the military strength simply to take it back by force. The first option is not viable, as it only disposes of the Ring temporarily and leaves it open to recovery. Only the third option completely removes the threat of both the Ring and its maker.

Realising that the only opportunity to eliminate the danger of the Ring for good and all was to send it to the Sammath Naur before it could be recovered by Sauron, Gandalf and the rest of the Council bowed to the dictates of necessity. They sent the people whom they believed most likely to succeed in a) reaching the Cracks of Doom at all and b) casting the Ring into the flames once they arrived. Having done all they could they put their faith in Eru that this would be enough. Without this leap of faith the Ring would never have been destroyed: Sauron, even without the Ring, was more than a match for Gondor and her allies, and he would eventually have recaptured it from any stronghold. Had it been cast into the sea, Sauron need only wait patiently for it to be delivered up again and then resume his search. In either case, the War of the Ring would have been lost, since there would be no power left to oppose his dominion.

In fine, no-one is a madman who takes a desperate gamble when he has nothing to lose and no other alternative. The White Council were placed in just such a position with the Ring. As we can see, their gambit was successful.

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Squatter of Amon Rudh ]

[Keneldil the Polka-dot]

To add to Squatter's well formed list....Sauron was defeating Gondor and her allies without the Ring. The Ring could have been sitting at the bottom of the ocean and Sauron still would have ruled Middle Earth.

Makes you wonder about Sauron's wits. All he needed to do was keep anyone off Mt. Doom, finish crushing Gondor, and find the Ring at his leisure. If anyone was a madman, it was Sauron.

[Balin999]

Makes you wonder about Sauron's wits. All he needed to do was keep anyone off Mt. Doom, finish crushing Gondor, and find the Ring at his leisure. If anyone was a madman, it was Sauron

Actually, I think that was what Sauron tried to do. He wanted to crush Gondor, of course. But he never believed that anyone would dare to enter Mordor, try to venture to Mount Doom and throw the ring, which would give one of the good guys enough power to kick Sauron's *** and be ruler of the people of Middle-earth, into the fire.
Sauron would never think of anyone who wanted to destroy the ring, that's why Orodruin remained unguarded. Stupid anyway...

[Konarmi]

I second or w/e.. Gandalf was a genius. He needed to send someone who's goal in life wasn't greed. A person who when asked wether they wanted a gold necklace or a nap sack the answer would be obvious.

To interject my opinion on the above discussion, If Gandalf had gone with Frodo all of the way to Mt. Doom, I do not think that he would have resorted to taking the ring from Frodo for any reason. I believe this for two reasons

1. In regards to the ring, Gandalf seemed to work through channels of persuasion, not force on those he considered friends. I have no doubt that he would have bent all of his will against the pull of the ring to give Frodo the strength to dispose of the ring by his own free will had he been at Mt. Doom during the moment of truth. (like he had done previously for Frodo at Amon Hen and to Bilbo when he left the ring at Bag End) This idea might spill into the whole good = free will vs. evil = domination over others’ actions. Gandalf could use his powerful influence to help Frodo make the good choice but to actually take the ring or throw Frodo himself into the fire would be an act akin to the thinking of Sauron, even if it were trying to produce a good end result. Which leads me to my second point –

2. Gandalf, knowing more about the effects of the ring as demonstrated from his remarks on it throughout the text, would know that to forcefully take the ring at such a place could break his will of resistance to its power. He would not even accept it as a gift in a place far from Mordor, why would he believe that taking it in the heart of Mt. Doom would be a good idea. Sure, he is right where he needs to be to dispose of it, but by coming on the ring in such a way in Mordor itself, it seems that would he just keep it for himself once he had it. He had made the point about how important it was that Bilbo began his possession of the ring with pity, so for him to take it violently just makes no sense. Especially if the ring tempts its possessor based on his or her own inherent power.

I don’t know if it would have made a difference in the end to have Gandalf there at Mt. Doom. Maybe things would have happened the same, or maybe Gandalf’s presence would have allowed Frodo to throw the ring in unassisted, or maybe a bad result would have occurred. Either way it seems doubtful to me the Gandalf would ever have forcefully taken the ring from Frodo, IMO.

[Nostie]

Don't all geniuses do 'crazy' things in everyone else's eyes before the result can be seen? Just because the average person never thought of that idea, they see it as 'crazy' or insane. Except that it all works out in the end...:P
I think Gandalf couldnt' tell what would happen in the future, but had vague ideas...like when he said he had a feeling gollum still had a part to play in the end? (about the ring?) he just decided on the best course to take and hoped for the best

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Crazy? Or crazy like a fox?!!!!!

[Magician of Nathar]

The whole book is mad if you look at it that way.(and I admit, sometimes I do) I think the reason Gandalf sent Frodo is because he is resilient to the ring's power. The problem here is not how to get to Mt. Doom without noticing. That is not that hard, especially for tow small hobbits. Gandalf predicted that and used it to his advantage. However, the MAIN problem is no body WOULD destroy the ring when he/she carrried it for so long and actually reached heart of Mordor. Everyone would be tempted to keep the ring, even Gandlf himself. Kinda like Wagner's Ring cycle. Rhine river is next door but no one would throw it into the water to its rightful owner. Gandalf did take a big risk here though. Frodo can't even throw the ring into his fireplace in Hobbiton. But then again, no one would have done better anyway.

[Duncariel]

All right, I know Christian views probalby aren't totally welcomed on the forum, but I'm gonna write them anyway. JRRT was a Catholic. Gandalf was the Christ figure in LoTR. He comes back from the dead in time to getTheoden off his butt to Helm's Deep, and from there to the rescue of Gondor. Gandalf was not mad, he had faith that Sauron, who was corrupted by the original enemy Melkor(Morgoth), would be so occupied in his conquest of the rest of ME that he would not have such a close watch on his own territory. Sauron began to be worried toward the end of his war, because he knew something had slipped. Even his servants knew it. I think I might be done ranting now.

Sauron999, I think ME would be better off without Frodo anyway. he he.

[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Duncariel ]