Wizards - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

02-04-2003, 05:53 PM

Hi all,

This is probably a silly question but concerning Galdalf and other wizards, are they human? (Men, as opposed to elves, hobbits, and other lifeforms) How old is Gandalf? He seems quite old, but if he is a man would be just a babe in comparison with Elrond etc.

the witch king · 02-04-2003, 06:33 PM

They are Istari (Maiar) who were sent to Middle-earth to aid in the war on Sauron, they are very old and have existed (as spirts) since the begining on creation! So the wizards (i.e. the 5 Istari) were around way befor elves like Elrond etc

LadyMeg · 02-04-2003, 06:49 PM

Suilad,

The word 'Wizard' has a very specific meaning in Tolkien; it is intended as a translation of istar, meaning "Wise Ones" and applies only to those Maiar who came to Middle-earth in the Third Age. The word's more general use, for any person who works magical acts, does not apply in this context.

Came to Middle-earth c. III 1000. Saruman was slain in III 3019 and Gandalf left Middle-earth in III 3021; the fates of the other Wizards are unknown.

Kind Regards: LadyMeg [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Iargwath · 02-05-2003, 12:15 AM

A search might get you more better results. But you can have a look at these to cut a long answer short for you Amantalwen Legodriel.
Wizards
Gandalf

the guy who be short · 02-05-2003, 12:35 PM

theyare maiar. they were send to middle earth in the middle of the third age to combat sauron, but were not allowed to force people to do their bidding. when they defeated sauron at the end of the third age, their task was done, and they returned to Valinor, west of the sea.

Legolas · 02-05-2003, 01:17 PM

The wizards were not sent to combat Sauron. If they were, they would've stormed Mordor, captured Sauron, and left town.

They were sent to guide the people against Sauron, not fight the war for them. Gandalf was only allowed to take a more direct approach when it was clear that the other four wizards had turned away from their mission.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-05-2003, 01:17 PM

The only Wizard who we know to have returned to Aman is Gandalf.

LePetitChoux · 02-05-2003, 01:39 PM

This is a redundant topic. Sorry, c'est la vie! (that's life). It has been asked a LOT of times before. But you're new, so I'm not usoing colourful language... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (Only joking, I'd NEVER use colourful language! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img])

[insert cool Skwerl picture here] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-05-2003, 03:44 PM

Quote:

They were sent to guide the people against Sauron, not fight the war for them. Gandalf was only allowed to take a more direct approach when it was clear that the other four wizards had turned away from their mission.

So what was Gandalf doing down Dol Guldur way vis a vis the Necromancer while Bilbo and the Dwarves muddled their way around Mirkwood, Lake Town and the Lonely Mountain? Was Saruman still on message at that point? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-06-2003, 09:49 AM

Gandalf's driving Sauron out of Mirkwood, was a issue that he had long been mulling over, and that Saruman, fearing that Sauron should find the ring in the Gladden, finally consented for him to be driven out.

lathspell · 02-06-2003, 04:51 PM

Gandalf did not drive out Sauron from Dol Guldur. He tried to confirm the identity that they guessed him to have: Sauron. He was till that day only known as the Necromancer.
The White Council afterwards drove Sauron away from Mirkwood, or at least that was their plan and they succeeded. But Sauron was ahead of them and already had his escape-route ready and Barad-dur was already made ready by his Nazgûl.

Saruman, at this point, was already beginning to search for the Ring himself. He knew that the Ring fell into Anduin near the Gladden Fields. His servants searched all the area there, and he took to scrolls of old knowledge. He too participated at the attack of Dol Guldur, but only to make sure that Sauron was away from Mirkwood (which was far to near to the Gladden Fields), and to make sure that the White Council would still trust him as their leader, so that he could still hear all they had to tell about things concerning the Rings.

The Wizards, or Istari, were sent to M-e to guide the Free Peoples against Sauron. They were not allowed to use open 'magical' force (or at least in a very small proportion). They had to instruct them and let them fight and withstand Sauron. Gandalf (and maybe Radagast) were the only ones true to their mission, but Gandalf is the only one of whom we know that has returned to Aman.

greetings,
lathspell

**The Saucepan Man** · 02-06-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

The Wizards, or Istari, were sent to M-e to guide the Free Peoples against Sauron. They were not allowed to use open 'magical' force (or at least in a very small proportion). They had to instruct them and let them fight and withstand Sauron.

Quote:

The White Council afterwards drove Sauron away from Mirkwood, or at least that was their plan and they succeeded.

Sorry to labour the point, but isn't driving Sauron out of Mirkwood a bit more than instruction and guidance?

02-04-2003, 05:53 PM	#1
Danuna Guest Posts: n/a	Wizards Hi all, This is probably a silly question but concerning Galdalf and other wizards, are they human? (Men, as opposed to elves, hobbits, and other lifeforms) How old is Gandalf? He seems quite old, but if he is a man would be just a babe in comparison with Elrond etc.

02-04-2003, 06:33 PM	#2
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	They are Istari (Maiar) who were sent to Middle-earth to aid in the war on Sauron, they are very old and have existed (as spirts) since the begining on creation! So the wizards (i.e. the 5 Istari) were around way befor elves like Elrond etc __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

02-04-2003, 06:49 PM	#3
LadyMeg Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ayr QLD Australia Posts: 27	Suilad, The word 'Wizard' has a very specific meaning in Tolkien; it is intended as a translation of istar, meaning "Wise Ones" and applies only to those Maiar who came to Middle-earth in the Third Age. The word's more general use, for any person who works magical acts, does not apply in this context. Came to Middle-earth c. III 1000. Saruman was slain in III 3019 and Gandalf left Middle-earth in III 3021; the fates of the other Wizards are unknown. Kind Regards: LadyMeg [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future"-Galadriel.

02-05-2003, 12:15 AM	#4
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	A search might get you more better results. But you can have a look at these to cut a long answer short for you Amantalwen Legodriel. Wizards Gandalf __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

02-05-2003, 01:17 PM	#6
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	The wizards were not sent to combat Sauron. If they were, they would've stormed Mordor, captured Sauron, and left town. They were sent to guide the people against Sauron, not fight the war for them. Gandalf was only allowed to take a more direct approach when it was clear that the other four wizards had turned away from their mission. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

02-05-2003, 12:35 PM	#5
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	theyare maiar. they were send to middle earth in the middle of the third age to combat sauron, but were not allowed to force people to do their bidding. when they defeated sauron at the end of the third age, their task was done, and they returned to Valinor, west of the sea.

02-05-2003, 01:17 PM	#7
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	The only Wizard who we know to have returned to Aman is Gandalf. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-05-2003, 01:39 PM	#8
LePetitChoux Vegetable of Doom Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: London Posts: 720	This is a redundant topic. Sorry, c'est la vie! (that's life). It has been asked a LOT of times before. But you're new, so I'm not usoing colourful language... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (Only joking, I'd NEVER use colourful language! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) [insert cool Skwerl picture here] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ je suis une bonne odeur

02-06-2003, 09:49 AM	#10
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Gandalf's driving Sauron out of Mirkwood, was a issue that he had long been mulling over, and that Saruman, fearing that Sauron should find the ring in the Gladden, finally consented for him to be driven out. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-06-2003, 04:51 PM	#11
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Gandalf did not drive out Sauron from Dol Guldur. He tried to confirm the identity that they guessed him to have: Sauron. He was till that day only known as the Necromancer. The White Council afterwards drove Sauron away from Mirkwood, or at least that was their plan and they succeeded. But Sauron was ahead of them and already had his escape-route ready and Barad-dur was already made ready by his Nazgûl. Saruman, at this point, was already beginning to search for the Ring himself. He knew that the Ring fell into Anduin near the Gladden Fields. His servants searched all the area there, and he took to scrolls of old knowledge. He too participated at the attack of Dol Guldur, but only to make sure that Sauron was away from Mirkwood (which was far to near to the Gladden Fields), and to make sure that the White Council would still trust him as their leader, so that he could still hear all they had to tell about things concerning the Rings. The Wizards, or Istari, were sent to M-e to guide the Free Peoples against Sauron. They were not allowed to use open 'magical' force (or at least in a very small proportion). They had to instruct them and let them fight and withstand Sauron. Gandalf (and maybe Radagast) were the only ones true to their mission, but Gandalf is the only one of whom we know that has returned to Aman. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'