The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2002, 02:04 PM   #1
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Gondolin the fair
Posts: 94
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin has just left Hobbiton.
Shield Eregion?

Who founded Eregion?
Tarlondeion Of Gondolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2002, 10:16 PM   #2
LúthienTinúviel
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Doriath
Posts: 76
LúthienTinúviel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to LúthienTinúviel Send a message via AIM to LúthienTinúviel
Sting

*busts out favorites list flooded with Tolkien sites*

According to The Encylopedia of Arda(great site!):

"It's usually assumed that Eregion was founded by Celebrimbor, the grandson of Fëanor, but Tolkien never explicitly states this. In the published works, his only definite comment on Eregion's foundation is from the appropriate entry in the Tale of Years (The Lord of the Rings Appendix B): '750 Eregion founded by the Noldor.' This is a curiously general statement: Celebrimbor's history is well developed in the book, and we would expect his name to appear here if he was Eregion's founder.
In Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, we glimpse a possible explanation. This makes it clear that, at least for a time, Tolkien considered Eregion to have been founded by Galadriel and Celeborn before they settled in Lórien. It isn't clear to what extent this should be taken as 'historical' fact, and it isn't completely consistent with the statement in The Lord of the Rings (because Celeborn wasn't of the Noldor), but it remains an interesting possibility. "

Hope that helped!

Namárië,
Lúthien
__________________
Such lissom limbs no more shall run
on the green earth beneath the sun;
so fair a maid no more shall be
from dawn to dusk, from sun to sea.


http://www.thereandbackagain.net
LúthienTinúviel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2003, 08:17 PM   #3
Sillabub
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: GONDOR!!
Posts: 138
Sillabub has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

What the Mordor is Eregion?
__________________
They were holding umbrellas. Not just any umbrellas- BLACK umbrellas. Not just ANY black umbrellas- these were...(knuckle-biting time) the BLACK UMBRELLAS OF DEATH!!!!! *cue sinister music*
Sillabub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2003, 08:30 PM   #4
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

Eregion was a kingdom of sorts, situated almost directly to the West of Moria. It was founded by the Noldor (or the following of Galadriel and Celeborn, depends on where you look) in 750 of the Second Age. For a while, it was under the rule of Galadriel and Celeborn, and everything was peaceful. Other "famous" Noldor who lived there were the Gwaith-i-Mirdain, headed by Celebrimbor, the son of Curufin, and therefore the last Feanorian.

In the Second Age, when Sauron first assumed the fana of Annatar, he first went to Gil-galad and Galadriel, to try to win them over and get in their counsels. Of course, those two were too smart for him, and sent him packing. Then, he got wise, and went to Celebrimbor. This time, however, he didn't offer the almighty prize of world domination/power/etc. etc., he offered supreme knowledge. Annatar claimed that he had been in the train of Aulë in Valinor a long time ago (which was true in a sense, because Sauron had indeed been a Maia of Aulë) and told Celebrimbor that he would give him knowledge that he could only dream of. Naturally, our grandson of Fëanor fell for it.

Annatar also persuaded Celebrimbor to lead a sort of revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn, and take over Ost-in-Edhil, the capital of Eregion. Galadriel fled to Lothlorien along with Celebrian, but Celeborn remained behind (because he would not pass through the Mines of Moria at any cost, since he still hated the Dwarves for sacking Doriath).

With Annatar's tutelage, the Rings of Power were crafted. That story I won't go into because there are many threads devoted to that subject.

After the Elven Rings were forged, and later hidden, Sauron grew very ticked off and decided to attack Eregion with one heck of an army at his back. With so many iron-clad Orc feet marching over it, poor Eriador just didn't have enough Tylenol to get rid of the pain, and it, well, died. So in a nutshell, that is the history of Eregion.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2003, 08:39 PM   #5
Sillabub
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: GONDOR!!
Posts: 138
Sillabub has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Ooooh that's really informative!!!!!!no, seriously. It helped alot. But how did Celeborn get to Lothlorien then?
__________________
They were holding umbrellas. Not just any umbrellas- BLACK umbrellas. Not just ANY black umbrellas- these were...(knuckle-biting time) the BLACK UMBRELLAS OF DEATH!!!!! *cue sinister music*
Sillabub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2003, 09:09 PM   #6
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

After Sauron was driven out of Eriador, and back to Mordor (thanks to Gil-galad and Cirdan's butt-kicking Elves and a navy of Numenoreans with impeccable timing) a council was called, and it was decided that Rivendell (recently founded by Elrond along with the refugees from Eregion) would be the new outpost of the Elves. Galadriel and Celebrian traveled to Rivendell to both see Elrond and Celeborn, and that was where Elrond saw Celebrian and fell in love with her. After that, Celeborn returned to Lothlorien with Galadriel and his daughter (who later married Elrond).
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 08:46 AM   #7
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,030
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
There's some new text from Words, Phrases and Passages (WPP) that might be interesting here.

In the entry for the name Celebrimbor Tolkien notes that Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion, and the ruler of the realm at the time of the forging of the rings -- not much help in deciphering whether or not Celeborn and Galadriel had founded Eregion however, as had been written in the draft text Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn (CG&C)

In this entry Tolkien referred (himself it appears) to Appendix B page 364, but I note this is Appendix B first edition, wherein it was not yet stated that Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion (in the description that appears before the dated entries begin I mean, and that would be page 363 rather). I also note the implied chronology here: in the beginning of the Second Age the Sindar pass eastward and found realms among the Silvan Elves, and Celeborn is noted as establishing a realm in southern Greenwood, and: 'Later some of the Noldor went to Eregion...'

That said, the matter of the founding of Thranduil's realm (which calls in the 'Oropher texts' and a Tolkien-published statement from Legolas) sort of overturns the argument that the realms the reader knows about were necessarily established in this early time. But in any case, for the second edition Tolkien removed this reference to Celeborn. Why?

In part, arguably because he now wants Galadriel and Celeborn in Eregion first -- but does he still consider them founders of Eregion as earlier in CG&C? I tend to doubt that myself, but anyway what Tolkien added to the second edition (description in Appendix B) was simply: '... Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Feanor.'

I would suggest that Tolkien must be aware of the easy implication here: we still have the statement that later some of the Noldor went to Eregion (and the entry for 750 of course, Eregion founded by the Noldor), and now Celebrimbor the Feanorian was lord. Granted that leaves open the possibility that Celebrimbor was 'ultimately' lord, but no one would really have good reason to think this, as CG&C was at this time but a rough draft that no one had ever seen. Again, Tolkien could hardly have been unaware of how the reader would interpret such a simple reference.

Also, in a late Tolkien-published account -- The Road Goes Ever on -- Tolkien would note that after Galadriel was banned from returning West, she with Celeborn 'went to Eregion'.

Hmm, why not founded if the idea was still in place? It seems a rather notable detail to be leaving out. We know some ideas from CG&C were arguably abandoned later, like Amroth as Galadriel's son for a good example, and I think that with Celebrimbor becoming a Feanorian (he was a jewel-smith in Gondolin as CG&C was first written at least) he also became Aran Eregion, and Galadriel would have to wait for Amroth's death to rule a realm of her own.


If so, Galadriel need not be ousted from power as in CG&C -- which in the earlier story sent her to Lorien before Eregion's fall -- I note this because WPP also notes that Galadriel and Celeborn only retreated thither (to Lorien) after the fall of Eregion.

Another concern that would be eliminated by making Celebrimbor the original lord of Eregion -- the unanswered question that arose in CG&C as to why Galadriel, especially as a ruler of the realm, allowed Sauron to remain in Eregion. In other words, it will now be a Feanorian ruler who was cozened, and even if the discerning Galadriel still doubted Annatar she would no longer be co-founder and co-ruler of the realm in which he was allowed to stay.

Anyway, here's the other 'new' text for consideration from WPP:
Quote:
'... overthrow of Angband, many of the Noldor and Sindar went eastwards into Eriador and beyond (Galadriel and Celeborn were the chief examples; but originally the settlement at Eregion under Celebrimbor was also very important.'
How do you (anyone) read this?
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.