Was Eru or the Valar clueless? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kronos · 02-12-2004, 03:34 AM

Usually in Lord of the Rings/The Silmarillion prophetic dreams are often seen as messages from either the Valar (or maybe even Eru directly).
I have always supposed that the dreams sent to Faramir and Boromir were of this nature. They could not be just coincidence and certainly Boromir shows no tendency to psychic ability.

So my question is, if these dreams were sent by the Gods (Valar or Eru) did they get it wrong. We know that they came to Faramir first and he dreamt them several times. They came to Boromir later and once only.
The implication is clear. The dreams meant for Faramir to go to Rivendell and (we assume) join the Fellowship.

Now as per the original intentions of the Fellowship this would have been the preferred option. Faramir would be unlikely to cause the breaking of the Fellowship and without it it's possible that Frodo would not have found the courage to try to leave alone.

However we know that the breaking of the Fellowship was the best thing that could have happened. If it had not then Aragorn and Faramir would have likely gone to Gondor. Gimli and the Hobbits (maybe Legolas too) would have gone with Frodo to Mordor.
The latter group would not be ideal in terms of stealth, would have been unlikely to snare Gollum and therefore would not have found the secret way into Mordor. That may have left them unable to get there or they would have had to pass far to the East and come in by the back route. This would have taken so long that Sauron would have likely won in the interim.

Also no Hobbits would come to Fangorn and Rohan would have probably fallen. Rohan would not have come to the aid of Gondor, instead Saruman would have headed that way too. If not to Rivendell.
The army of the dead would not have liberated southern Gondor and the troops so released would not have come to Pelennor.

Basically Gondor would have likely fell even quicker and even if the Ring had been destroyed it would have been too late.

So if the dreams did come from the Gods did they get it totally wrong? Why did they pay more attention to Faramir?

02-12-2004, 03:34 AM	#1
Kronos Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: England Posts: 47	Was Eru or the Valar clueless? Usually in Lord of the Rings/The Silmarillion prophetic dreams are often seen as messages from either the Valar (or maybe even Eru directly). I have always supposed that the dreams sent to Faramir and Boromir were of this nature. They could not be just coincidence and certainly Boromir shows no tendency to psychic ability. So my question is, if these dreams were sent by the Gods (Valar or Eru) did they get it wrong. We know that they came to Faramir first and he dreamt them several times. They came to Boromir later and once only. The implication is clear. The dreams meant for Faramir to go to Rivendell and (we assume) join the Fellowship. Now as per the original intentions of the Fellowship this would have been the preferred option. Faramir would be unlikely to cause the breaking of the Fellowship and without it it's possible that Frodo would not have found the courage to try to leave alone. However we know that the breaking of the Fellowship was the best thing that could have happened. If it had not then Aragorn and Faramir would have likely gone to Gondor. Gimli and the Hobbits (maybe Legolas too) would have gone with Frodo to Mordor. The latter group would not be ideal in terms of stealth, would have been unlikely to snare Gollum and therefore would not have found the secret way into Mordor. That may have left them unable to get there or they would have had to pass far to the East and come in by the back route. This would have taken so long that Sauron would have likely won in the interim. Also no Hobbits would come to Fangorn and Rohan would have probably fallen. Rohan would not have come to the aid of Gondor, instead Saruman would have headed that way too. If not to Rivendell. The army of the dead would not have liberated southern Gondor and the troops so released would not have come to Pelennor. Basically Gondor would have likely fell even quicker and even if the Ring had been destroyed it would have been too late. So if the dreams did come from the Gods did they get it totally wrong? Why did they pay more attention to Faramir?