Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVII: The Saga Continues to Continue quite Continuously [Archive] - Page 2

Formendacil

02-10-2006, 02:36 AM

Dear, dear...

I seem to be making a good deal of mentions today, without actually heading up anyone's list of suspicions. Out of character, am I?

Well, perhaps... but who here actually knows what my character actually is! After all, the facade I have presented in all games thus far might be no more than playacting!

I regret that I cannot be online more often, so as to annoy you all the more... but work, sleep, and self-imposed Church commitments severely limit such things...

Morm says I like living on the edge. He's right, you know. And maybe, just maybe, I want to get pushed off for a change. This is the sixth Werewolf game out the last seven main ones that I've been a part of... Perhaps I want an early death so as to enjoy a breather ere I, like a druggie to weed, sign up for ANOTHER round.

Or, perhaps, I'm enjoying finally being an innocent again, and am using it do Nilpish, Gil-ish, Fea-ish, Lhuna-ish stuff that I'd never do as a serious Gifted.

Or, perhaps, I'm a very, very clever Werewolf. I am smart enough for it, you know.

All that I'm going to PROMISE you is that I'm not the Cobbler. I do want the Wolves dead, and any confusion I give you, except when pertaining to myself, is completely unintentional...

However, enough about me- even though I am the most important person around here- now it is time for a moment of analysis...

It being 1:30 am in my timezone, I shan't try and look deeply at everyone. Instead, I'll just make another comment or two regarding the Saucepan Man. Strange, how he keeps coming up.

Specifically, I want to present that facet of his gaming habits thus far that affects me the most, namely his suspicions concerning me.

Early toDAY, SPM said of me that he's still willing to accept my excuses, and to give me the benefit of the doubt. In fact, his entire attitude today has been one of tolerance towards my peccadillo-esque behaviour. I find this in opposition to his attitude of yesterday, where he was perhaps one of the less tolerant. In fact, he seems to me to have almost made an about face of opinion: almost as if, now that I've built up enough village-wide suspicion to be lynched, he wants to distance himself from me, so as to be able to claim, once I am lynched, that he had nothing to do with my death. Of course, such a trait would suggest that he is a Werewolf. It would also be proveable by my death... which I'd really rather pass on at the moment.

In brief conclusion, I have no more evidence regarding the Saucepan Man's innocence or guilt than I did before, but I lean towards Glirdanism in this matter....

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 04:47 AM

I only have a few minutes at my disposal, little more than sufficient to highlight my basic points.

Firstly, I am still most suspicious of mormegil. I shall provide reasons later, but they're the same as yesterday; the subtle influencing of the village whilst accusing Cailin of the same, the inadequate responses. I'll have a list up in the evening, hopefully.

There are several villagers I cannot make my mind up about: Marco, Naria, Garin, spawn, Formen and now SpM, Gil are amongst these. They merit looking into, but I trust only myself and select others to do so. I shall do this when I am able.

My only other serious suspect yesterday was Glirdan. I only have time to say that I no longer believe in his guilt.

Farewell for a few hours.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-10-2006, 05:50 AM

YesterDay's votes:

Wayne -> Wayne
Gil -> Wayne
malkatoj -> Sauce
Glirdan -> Sauce
mormegil -> Cailín
Nilp -> Cailín

It's a three-way tie between two known innocents and Sauce. Obviously Sauce won't vote for himself so...

Sauce -> Cailín
Naria -> Formendacil (Score: Cailín-3, Wayne-2, Sauce-2, Formendacil-1)

Yay, Naria can't been swayed. I'd still like to know what she thinks of other villagers because even though she gives reasons for her vote, it's pretty tough to analyze her when she doesn't show her opinions in public.

TGWBS -> mormegil

A new interesting theory is presented.

spawn -> Wayne
Garin -> Cailín (Score: Cailín-4, Wayne-3, Sauce-2, Formendacil-1, mormegil-1)

Now, I also tried looking at the ties made/broken during the previous votings, and I came up with this interesting figures: Garin broke a tie thrice, all in 'favour' of a innocent. Garin has indeed broken a tie thrice, but the ties have been between innocents (or himself), so it has been a lose-lose situation from the beginning.

Kath -> mormegil

At this point Cailín says she's the Ranger.

Formendacil -> Wayne

After Formendacil's vote, Cailín and Márcolië have to vote for Wayne in order to give the Ranger another night, so Márcolië's vote doesn't really tell anything.

Cailín -> Wayne
Márcolië -> Wayne

Final score: Wayne-6, Cailín-4, Sauce-2, mormegil-2, Formendacil-1.

I don't get it why Wayne voted for himself and hoped that the wolves would win if he was an innocent. *sigh*

And now, semi-traditionally, here's a brief summary of toDay's discussion.

mormegil: Says he's lacking confidence and is unsure what direction to go now. Thinks that Formendacil could be bluffing, but is hesitant to start accusing him after mistaking earlier. Wonders Nilp's helpfulness and finds it confusing, agrees with most of Sauce's thoughts, but isn't ready to consider as many people innocent as him, although mormegil thinks that TGWBS, Nilp and Kath are likely to be innocents. Won't let malkatoj off the hook just because of the Aiwendil vote, wonders Kath's reason to vote for him. Later says that might vote for Formendacil because of the presented arguments and because he's intelligent and still isnt helping. Thinks that he's a wolf or at least the Cobbler...

-There has been surprisingly much fuss about Formendacil today and I kind of understand why. However, some things he has said have made me think that he could be innocent villager after all. I don't know if I'm being stupid, stubborn or if I'm about to walk into a trap, but I'd let him live for now-

...Makes a list about how many times people have posted and suspects those who haven't posted much, would like to have the silent ones to talk more.

-I agree with this-

Gil: Has lost all hope, says that maybe people shouldn't listen to him anymore.

malkatoj: Says Cailín's death doesn't leave us any clues to follow, suspects TGWBS and spawn, but doesn't explain why. Is also growing suspicious of Gil because he isn't being helpful, but thinks it's more likely that he's the Cobbler, though. Much less suspicious of Sauce than before because of his good self-defense post.

Kath: Votes for mormegil for same reasons as yesterDay.

Sauce: Feels hesitant to start analysing because of the earlier mistakes, lists yesterDay's votes, but says they won't probably tell us much. Makes statistics about voting and says that perhaps we should look at those who have been casting safe votes instead of those who have voted for proven innocents multiple times...

-Well, this reflects the thoughts I had in my post #189, so I agree. It would be a good idea to take a look at people who haven't yet been under suspicion, anyway-

...Trusts Cailín's list of innocents (= Nilp, TGWBS, Glirdan, Kath], still believes that malkatoj's innocent and thinks that Formendacil's innocent, too, although he's aware that he might be bluffing. Ponders a trio of mormegil, spawn and Garin, but is hesitant to go after them now. Of the three, is most unsure of Garin although has no specific reason to suspect him. Thinks that there might be one or two wolves in that group, though.

Has no idea of Gil, says that his vote for Wayne was reasoned, can't say anything definite of Márcolië either. Main suspect at the moment is Naria because she hasn't voted for a known innocent, says that her vote for Formendacil might have been a wolf voting another wolf. Finds Nilp's thoughts interesting, says that the wolves have left the lynching of the innocents for the innocents themselves and are keeping quiet.

-I find Naria a bit unnerving, too, mostly because she won't share her thoughts-

Nilp: Analyses Day 1 and 2's votes pointing out two pairs: Kath & Garin and Glirdan & Formendacil, but says he finds the latter unconvincing, compares people's behaviour to previous games, says that Formendacil might be bluffing. Makes a list of people based on how many votes they have received, thinks there's a wolf among those who haven't had been voted for yet and two baddies in the first two lists. Is suspicious of Garin, Formendacil, Gil, Kath and Glirdan (whom he suspects because he attacked Sauce). Votes for Gil.

Glirdan: Says the Gifteds should remain hidden, is surprised that Sauce isn't dead yet and suspects him because of that. Says Sauce could be alive because he's a wolf or because he has suspected a wolf correctly. Thinks Gil's yesterDay's vote was odd as if he had been eager to get rid of another innocent. Votes for Gil.

Formendacil: Makes theories of his own behaviour, promises that he isn't the Cobbler, wonders how Sauce's attitude has changed and finds it werewolfish.

TGWBS: Is still really suspicious of mormegil for the same reasons as yesterDay. Thinks Márcolië, Naria, Garin, spawn, Formendacil, Sauce and Gil should be watched. Isn't suspicious of Glirdan anymore.

Votes thus far:

Kath -> mormegil
Nilp -> Gil
Glirdan -> Gil

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-10-2006, 06:18 AM

Boy, I've been doing a lot in class.

I've done the analyses that lead to my vote during French and English Lit class.

Then, I've tried to deduce the Werewolves's killing pattern (and tried to do a Hunter hunt--I've still a handful in my list of probably Hunters) during Microbiology class.

Alphabetical order:

Abercrombie-DAY 1
Aiwendil-NIGHT 2
Cailín-NIGHT 4
DSoU
Form
Garin
Gil
Glirdan
guy
Kath
malka
Márcolië
morm
Naria
Nilp
Sauce
Shelob-DAY 2
Valier-NIGHT 3
Wayne-DAY 4

All the dead people are at either ends of the list. Now, the lynchings (and probably Cailín's death) are coincidental, but the first two NIGHT kills might not be. The Werewolves seem to be going first, then last (they'd probably leave Wayne alive to confuse). Interesting random pattern that leaves no clues whatsoever.

In that case, you might be in trouble, Sauce. Perhaps you, too, spawn.

Okay, that was slightly useless, but I've done all the possible logical analyses that I could do. I'm grasping at straws now.

Garin has indeed broken a tie thrice, but the ties have been between innocents (or himself), so it has been a lose-lose situation from the beginning. (spawn :) )That might be so, but I notice that aside from the vote where he had to save himself, he voted for someone that didn't end up getting lynched.

Of course, his vote for Cailín may have led to her lynching, if she had not declared herself.

And, I do not know how this all make sense. I just pointed it out.

Oh, and you, too, fair dancer, you have an interesting track record. Two tie votes in 'favour' of an innocent, and a tie-breaking vote in 'favour' of an innocent, all leading to kills.

I don't know why I pointed that out. My survival and eventual escape from the dungeons of Sauron came from memorising all sorts of information, no matter how useless they seem. ;)

The Saucepan Man

02-10-2006, 07:47 AM

Just popping in on a quick break from my legal duties. Two points that I wanted to respond to:

Early toDAY, SPM said of me that he's still willing to accept my excuses, and to give me the benefit of the doubt. In fact, his entire attitude today has been one of tolerance towards my peccadillo-esque behaviour. I find this in opposition to his attitude of yesterday, where he was perhaps one of the less tolerant. In fact, he seems to me to have almost made an about face of opinion: almost as if, now that I've built up enough village-wide suspicion to be lynched, he wants to distance himself from me, so as to be able to claim, once I am lynched, that he had nothing to do with my death. Of course, such a trait would suggest that he is a Werewolf. I made it very clear yesterday that I was inclined to accept your comment that you would be putting more effort in if you were a Wolf. That remains my position, as I said earlier, because I see little need for risky behaviour on the part of the Wolves at the moment. But I am nevertheless conscious of the fact that you may be bluffing. I do not see how my position on you today is much different from my position yesterday. The fact that you see fit to try and portray me as having changed my opinion of you gives me cause for concern about you.

SpM I like most of your thoughts and they seem to make some sense to me. Where I disagree is how many people you are willing to consider innocent.I'm not into double-lynching, not the ways things stand at the moment. So, while I am not regarding anyone as definate innocents, I am prepared to exclude people from my current analysis in order to concentrate on trying to find one Wolf today. Once we find one Wolf, it may be easier to spot the others from the voting record. I have seen nothing today that gives me cause to reconsider having Naria as my main suspect although, as I noted above, that comment of Formendacil's concerns me.

I'll be back later.

Márcolië Lamen

02-10-2006, 07:59 AM

Poor Cailin, she saved the seer another night, and did her job. It really is too bad that she had to give herself away.

Looking through the voting pattern, it seems like everyone's either too quiet, like me, or voting for known innocents as of now. It is unnerving that Naria has yet to vote for a known innocent.

Reading through the lists, I had never noticed how very little I'd been speaking. I knew it had been too few, but not as little as it is. And even more than this I didn't realise how few alot of us were speaking. Maybe we need to start voting for those being quiet, to see if people are trying to hide behind silence.

Looking at posts compared to those alive.
Well I can't figure out strikethrough, so I'll underline dead people.

The Saucepan Man 32
the guy who be short 25
Cailín 24
Garin 22
mormegil 21
Glirdan 20
malkatoj 14
dancing spawn of ungoliant 13
Nilpaurion Felagund 11
Kath 9
Valier 8
Gil-Galad 7
Aiwendil 6
Formendacil 6
Shelob 6
WaynetheGoblin 5
Naria 5
Márcolië Lamen 4
AbercrombieOfRohan 4

From the bottom in those alive.
Marcolie: me. I had an excuse for the first day, but thats all. I know I'd not be able to convince people of my innocence, so I'm not going to unless necessary, instead spend the same time looking at others.

Naria. Looking at Naria I'm very suspicous because it seems like ther's not reason to. It would be such a strong position,and such an easy position to hide in. She's seemed to not go out of her way to do anything, which seems like something a wolf would have done this game, because its not necessary.

Form To me it still seems like Form's the cobbler. She declares that's the one thing she's not, but is it not a cobbler who would try to confuse? I'd let Form live, at least for now, but not trust anything said...if there's anything we can analyse.

Gil-Galad is a very odd player, and it seems like we can't figure out any of Gil's actions, yet this is normal. I'm not as nervous about Gil as Naria, or even Form because it seems like Gil we can understand, to some degree. This probably isn't a good thing to work off of, but the truth.

Kath I'd be nervous of being a wolf, because i've always known of her intelligence. I'm not going to accuse her for anything when she can't be here to defend herself. Seems too unfair.

Looking through the numbers, I'd expect, one wolf in that list. I don't think that all of them could get away being quiet, because people will be smart and not always be killing off the loud ones. One quiet wolf and two loud ones makes sense to me, but I'm not sure what the third one would be.

I would beleive strongly though that there is one quiet wolf, and one loud one.

If I had to guess wolves now from this I'd guess.
quiet: Naria mainly for lack of voting for a known innocent
loud: Garin mainly for repeated breaking of ties 'causing known innocents deaths.
other: I'm not sure...

It makes sense to me for Naria and Garin to be working together, at opposite ends of the spetrum, and then someone else in between.

mormegil

02-10-2006, 08:21 AM

Firstly, I am still most suspicious of mormegil. I shall provide reasons later, but they're the same as yesterday; the subtle influencing of the village whilst accusing Cailin of the same, the inadequate responses.

Me subtle? Perish the thought. Show me where I have been subtle. It's not a trait I possess. And as far as my responses to your queries go, I thought I'd addressed this multiple times, but it appears as you are being intentionally obtuse and don't want to understand, which is odd because I believe you innocent and this seems wolfish behavior to me. Let me clarify that I do not think you a wolf but I don't understand your seemingly intentional desire to misunderstand everything I say.

Sadly most of my day will be spent interviewing potential apprentice-smiths (AKA I'm conducting job interviews all day) so I may not be able to make it back to vote, let alone catch up on the reading. While I am understanding of the suspicion on Naria I think I will stick to my guns with Formendacil for a couple of reasons. His answer is not satisfactory, in my mind and we need to spread the voting out between 4 or so candidates. Gil is tempting as well for multiple reasons, not least of which is his unhelpfulness but nay I will not vote him yet as he's likely innocent.

Therefore:

++Formendacil

Márcolië Lamen

02-10-2006, 08:44 AM

votes thus far
Kath -> mormegil
Nilp -> Gil
Glirdan -> Gil
morm->Form

we probably want to vote for one more person, and then see if we can between 4 people get a wolf to finally come out of voting. I'd say we should vote for Naria but I'm not ready to cast a vote yet. Though I'm debating to so that I we would have four people voted for, already, its not worth it.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-10-2006, 09:17 AM

As promised, I did some research of the quieter ones, and came up with analysis of Naria and malkatoj (although the latter has been pretty vocal).

Day 1:

Naria weeps the loss of Meneltarmacil and says that the Day 1 is rather random, and that's about all we get out of her. She promises to make a post later with a vote, though. Indeed, at the end of the Day we get 21 words forming an apology for lateness and a vote for Nilp (and it's a reasoned vote, too: "Too crazzzy!!").

Day 2:

*silence*

Day 3:

Naria says she had a perfectly good excuse for not posting. Fair enough. She also says that she was fairly quiet in her last game, three posts a day at tops (I'm not sure why she's telling this... does it mean that once you are a silent villager, you'll always be a silent villager?)

"I will not analyse anyone for there is enough people doing a good enough job already." ~Naria

Apparently it wasn't good enough since we haven't caught a wolf yet. In any case, that's a really weird thing to say. Did she know that we were way off of the real culprits and she thought she'd sit back watching us 'barking up the wrong tree' as we were already doing it so well? Why does she refuse to share her thoughts?

"I will however post a personal thought about each player later on." ~Naria

I'm still waiting for that post to come.

Naria thinks the idea of a double lynching sounds wolvish. She says that if a double lynching happens, then it happens but it shouldn't be planned. I disagree with this. I think accidental double lynchings don't really serve the purpose. A wolf can hide behind an "accident" and if we decrease our numbers twice the amount as usually in one Day, it should be discussed together.

Naria explains why she's quiet. She says she trusts her gut feelings since she's not good at reading between the lines. Her post #206, doesn't look that suspicious to me although I'm not sure when she said that "I do think that he [Formendacil] is acting Cobblerish and I would like to think that someone would agree with me on this."

She has just said that she wants to keep her own mind about voting, but the she wishes to get some support. I don't know... All in all Naria seems quite suspicious to me now and I'd really like her to post more her thoughts even if they are gut feelings.

***

Day 1:

Malkatoj is eager to get rid of Wayne and Gil.

"I think our best bet today would be to lynch either Gil or Wayne. Though we can't know if they're wolves, they are distracting and it'd be better to have them out of the way before we get to a point where there's real evidence." ~malkatoj

The next thing she says is that she's almost sure that Wayne is just being Wayne, though. Later she votes for Wayne for the reasons she explained earlier.

Day 2:

"I'm also inclined to think, like Wayne and Gil, it's just Garin being Garin--in the last game he acted in this manner as well." ~malkatoj

She suggests the good old 'wolves are in the bandwagon' theory although points out Shelob's safe vote (why only Shelob?). She says she meant Kath with her vote for Aiwendil and although some people would seem to think her as innocent after this, I'm not so sure.

Day 3:

Malkatoj is irritated because Wayne is still alive (although she has said all the time that he's probably innocent). She says that Sauce started both Shelob and Abercrombie bandwagons.

"Even if you don't vote for him [Sauce], don't vote with him--innocent or no, it's dangerous to let one person have so much power over us." ~malkatoj

Wow. That's quite a statement: Do not listen to The Saucepan Man. Nice piece of propaganda there. Malkatoj wants both Sauce and Wayne dead, but is uncertain, what to do. Asks a public opinion of double lynching and says she'd like to have it.

She votes for Sauce "for getting us to kill our innocent friends twice in a row".

Now, both ladies are looking rather suspicious to me and so do their votes. It's probably a safest vote ever to cast it for someone who already has votes, but who's not going to get lynched that Day.

On Day 1, malkatoj voted for Wayne giving him a third vote when Valier already had three and Abercrombie had 5. Naria, for one, gave Nilp a third vote just at the end of the Day.

I think I will probably vote for either of them toDay.

Garin

02-10-2006, 10:47 AM

I'm glad to see the Downs is no longer a porn link. I have previously fretted about posting at work and yesterday I thought I was doomed when it appeared the subject matter had changed from middle earth to doggy-style.
Back into character: I regret not posting last night, I truly appreciate all that have looked at the silent ones, I also agree that one of them should die. It is, however, interesting that Márcolië Lamen has attempted to recover from her silence and finally started to participate. Her points about Naria, sort of make sense but It really could apply to all of the silent ones. It is obviously an attempt to save herself. It is my initial desire to dismiss what she says since she has missed a vote or two.
However, I thought I would vote for Gil following yesterday's debacle. I don't know.. points about Malkatoj make sense.
I wasn't able to get to our village last night and now I am preoccupied with truffle hunting, it is much like digging for gold... very random, and tiresome. My posts will be few but I will vote and put myself on the record unlike others.

Garin

02-10-2006, 10:53 AM

Poor Cailin, she saved the seer another night, and did her job. It really is too bad that she had to give herself away
This comment seems makes me way suspicious and seems a bit egregious, almost like begging to be thought innocent.

Garin

02-10-2006, 11:23 AM

In fact, I found the post to be wolvish enough and I have too much work to do that I will vote now:
++Márcolië Lamen

The Saucepan Man

02-10-2006, 11:26 AM

Professional obligations discharged, I am back.

Reviewing today's discussions, I thought that I ought to answer this because it is an interesting point:

I'm very surprised that [SpM]'s not been lynched yet. This could mean a one of two things. One, he's a Wolf. Two, he's been suspicious of a Wolf and it's to dangerous to attack him because it will lead to many clues.I can see other plausible reasons why I have not been mauled by the Wolves yet. Night 2, they selected Aiwendil. We discussed the possible reasons for this on Day 2, but I think that it was a logical choice. His death left scant trail and he has a formidable intellect and an aptitude for analysis. Perhaps, were he still here, we would have made better choices. I still think that their choice of Valier on Night 3 was strange. But I can see why they did not go for me. After my votes on the previous days, they (correctly) assumed that I would be under suspicion and a potential lynch victim. Their choice on Night 4 was an obvious one. Moreover, be leaving me alone, they ensure that the very fact of my continued presence arouses suspicion, particularly given my voting record. After all, you have stated that this is one of your reasons for suspecting me, Glirdan.

... we probably want to vote for one more person, and then see if we can between 4 people get a wolf to finally come out of voting.I agree with this. It remains sensible to keep the voting options wide, as it may force the Wolves' hand. For that reason (and also because there is a chance that I might not get back later), I shall vote now. And I shall vote for:

++NARIA

Basically for the reasons that I stated earlier. Nothing that I have seen so far alters my view on her. She has been laying low and placing "safe" votes, a sensible tactic for a Wolf in light of the way the voting has gone so far. Also, a few of the things said today (particularly by spawn) have reinforced my suspicions. Her lack of presence today might be viewed as overly risky behaviour for a Wolf, but (if she is a Wolf) it seems to have worked for her so far.

Of course, now that I have voted for her, she will probably turn out to be innocent - given my track record so far. :rolleyes:

Edit: Cross-posted with Garin.

Naria

02-10-2006, 12:08 PM

I'm here!! Luck just isn't on my side. I was on earlier and was doing up my post when the power went out. We had a wicked snow storm earlier this morning and it knocked some lines down.

I really do hope that nothing else happens. I would like to participate more. :)

Well here's my gut feelings:

Morm--unsure of right now

Garin-- not too many thoughts right now just that he seems to be quite agreeable this game, maybe a new way of playing?

Nilp--starting to make sense. kinda

Spawn--unsure of right now

SPM--hard to read, just like his posts. Can't put my finger on

Malka--haven't put too much thought into her yet, which is probably not a good thing

Gil--has made me uneasy since the quick vote after Wayne

Glirdan--confused about, something isn't sitting right

Marcolie--unsure of right now

Form--have stated my thoughts of him

Kath--same as Malka

TGWBS--leary of

Garin

02-10-2006, 12:51 PM

Real quick, re: Mormegil, I like him but don't trust him, as much as it pains me. (I had a little time to read his posts, and had an uncomfortable feeling.)
I have, however, already, posted a vote.
I still think Marc is simply reacting to a call for the deaths to the silent and trying to avoid a lynch.
I have voted and feel secure in my vote.

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 01:03 PM

First off, I will probably be voting mormegil. But first, I want to deliver the promised analyses and see if anything sways my mind. Indeed, Naria's silence, along with many others, has not left the back of mind for some time. Nor has Gil's vote for wayne. But a personal analysis is always the best analysis, and I want to find out exactly why these people are being killed today.

All this is coming. Firstly, I wish to post my suspicions of mormegil and lay them open to the entire village.

This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=444617&postcount=207) post constitutes my first attack on morm. Here follow the main points:

I don't know why but something about Cailin isn't sitting right with me and I think I will watch her closely too.Good reasoning. And here we seen morm's knee-jerk reaction, without even the pretence of an explanation.Cailin is seeming to be the most wolfish to me currently and I don't have much time to explain but she's wise and cunning beyond her years and I think she's attempting to steer us to her thoughts and I find this unsettling at this stageI have repeatedly mentioned the fact that he gave no real reasons for suspecting her. He either says "Something isn't sitting right" or "I don't have time to explain" or some such thing, and when asked plainly, refuses to answer. So, morm: Why did you vote Cailin?

I pointed out that Cailin's comment that allegedly influenced the lynching of Shelob...
Shelob's vote for Garin stands out and so does Glirdan’s vote for SpM, but not in a way that makes me immediately think them wolvish. ...is something that all villagers say, with variations, all the time. To single this out and base an entire attack on this seem illogical.

What I found from Cailin's post is that up to that point you had been vocal and yet contributed little.Cailin did not explicitly state so. Morm implies that Cailin stated it. Furthermore, he seems unable to appreciate that Cailin posted a synopsis of what I had said - she did not present my analyses, but their conclusions. One sees quality thinking from me here, (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=443870&postcount=53) for example. Though other posts do not offer detailed analysis, they ask sensible questions.

He votes for Cailin when she has said explicitly that she will not be able to return, and so cannot form a defence.

Regarding Cailin I think I've put my finger on it. She's come forward with some decent ideas and seems to slowly be pulling here and pushing there. Slowly and quietly she is trying to influence us. Not as overtly as many think SpM is but more dangerously. She hasn't really committed herself to any one thing but seems to want to influence us and sow the seeds of confusion.Proof? Analysis? Anything? Just general feelings. The entire point of being an innocent, by the way, is to influence discussion.

I think I shall stick with Cailin today. My observation earlier has solidified in my mind and I can see now her wolfish influence taking root in our councils.Observation? A bit of a scientific word to use, considering the evidence you present.

My suspicions of Cailin I have posted and stand behind them. She's had a fairly innocuous track record on voting and what she says is moderately insightful but noncommittal.Suspicions not backed by quotation or any evidence. And it seems a little extreme voting for somebody simply because they balancedly analyse everything everybody says.

Me subtle? Perish the thought. Show me where I have been subtle. It's not a trait I possess. And as far as my responses to your queries go, I thought I'd addressed this multiple times, but it appears as you are being intentionally obtuse and don't want to understand, which is odd because I believe you innocent and this seems wolfish behavior to me. Let me clarify that I do not think you a wolf but I don't understand your seemingly intentional desire to misunderstand everything I say.Perhaps subtle was not the best word to use. You simply influenced the village, whether they realised it or not, because you're loud and generally trusted to analyse soundly. Yet look at the unanswered questions above; clearly you have not addressed them several times as I keep pursuing the subject.

In conclusion, I quote myself:
Plus as I've said ever since day 1 she didn't sit right with meAnd that is what your entire argument against Cailin comes down to! Through the last two days, all you can state is a bad feeling, and dress it up with minor attacks that could be applied to anybody!

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-10-2006, 01:07 PM

I regret not posting last night, I truly appreciate all that have looked at the silent ones, I also agree that one of them should die. It is, however, interesting that Márcolië Lamen has attempted to recover from her silence and finally started to participate. Her points about Naria, sort of make sense but It really could apply to all of the silent ones. It is obviously an attempt to save herself. It is my initial desire to dismiss what she says since she has missed a vote or two. Well, I was about to point out this suggestion by Márcolië: "Maybe we need to start voting for those being quiet, to see if people are trying to hide behind silence", but rather as a joke than a real accusation. It does seem quite convenient for Márcolië to start posting more and being helpful just when she says that we should go after the silent ones, but to me it doesn't appear quite as obviously wolvish as to you. After all, I would have expected her to talk more from the beginning. If she was quiet at first because she was adjusting herself to her new furrier life, that I don't know. However, I believe her when she said that she was caught up in business involving a flying spaghetti monster (or broken computer, whichever you please).

If I had to guess wolves now from this I'd guess.
quiet: Naria mainly for lack of voting for a known innocent
loud: Garin mainly for repeated breaking of ties 'causing known innocents deaths.
Márcolië, your accusation of Garin isn't very logical:

Garin has indeed broken a tie thrice, but the ties have been between innocents (or himself), so it has been a lose-lose situation from the beginning.That might be so, but I notice that aside from the vote where he had to save himself, he voted for someone that didn't end up getting lynched.

Poor Cailin, she saved the seer another night, and did her job. It really is too bad that she had to give herself away
This comment seems makes me way suspicious and seems a bit egregious, almost like begging to be thought innocent.I've never trusted those who lament the dead too much, but aren't you overreacting a bit? Funny you go after Márcolië just after she has named you as one of her main suspects. Might be a coincidence, though, I don't know. Now that I've said that, it's of course obvious that Márcolië is a wolf and Naria and malkatoj are as pure and innocent as the wind driven snow...

Anyway, if we are trying to rid ourselves of the silent ones, why to kill someone who has just started talking?

mormegil

02-10-2006, 01:19 PM

TGWBS, I don't know what to say to you other than that which I have already said. You do seem to be taking out of context a couple of things. I did not begin to attack Cailin on the first day I did mention that something wasn't sitting right with me. The second day I noted why and stated it to everyone and commenced my attack. My suspicion continued because of her general behavior. Since we are talking about so many past games anyway I will. I might mention that I found Holby to be a wolf in one game based exactly on that logic. I felt something was wrong and found some points where I thought she was. Cailin's behavior was similar to hers I was obviously wrong this time but it has worked for me in the past.

About the comment that I didn't have time to explain, that's simply because I didn't and I haven't had a great amount of time to look up quotes and do an extremely detailed analysis, but at least I am trying to contribute. My RL job is keeping me later and I've been extremely busy and usually can only post during lunch now.

It is note worthy that others thought along the same lines as I and yet for some reason you mention them not.

Naria

02-10-2006, 01:27 PM

I am being called away from my computer again this aft so I need to cast my vote earlier than I had expected.

++Formendacil

Formendacil

02-10-2006, 01:29 PM

I'm glad to see the Downs is no longer a porn link. I have previously fretted about posting at work and yesterday I thought I was doomed when it appeared the subject matter had changed from middle earth to doggy-style.

Aye! What was up with that?

Anyway, it's resolved, so on to the serious matters at hand, in which I shall probably and purposefully irritate some the great minds of the 'Downs.

Form To me it still seems like Form's the cobbler. She declares that's the one thing she's not, but is it not a cobbler who would try to confuse? I'd let Form live, at least for now, but not trust anything said...if there's anything we can analyse.

I guess I should start signing my posts with my real name again... Don't want to turn into a she by accident.

Yes, don't trust anything I say. But really, don't trust anything that ANYBODY says. No seer has come forward to reveal us any known innocents, so NOBODY is in the clear, meaning that EVERYBODY is suspect, and their words should be taken with great caution, and their statements should only be believed when verifiable.

Trust no one!

On other matters, I'm disappointed by Morm's vote for me, but hardly surprised at all. Certainly, I'm not insulted. After all, since I'm no good at reading the fine print on pages of Werewolf, I am a very poor in-depth analysier of posts, hence I tend to base my playing on what FEELS right, and on what I've experienced of other players in the past. And, since I'm playing quite differently than Morm is normally used to, I would be a hypocrite indeed if I didn't find him justified in voting for me.

Still disappointed though...

And, speaking of Morm, I find today's higher levels of Morm suspicion to be most interesting. I'm going to toss in my thoughts on the matter...

Quite frankly, Morm SEEMS normal to me on face value. However, there are definitely differences in his normal mode of playing, differences that I find significant.

First of all, Morm is not as verbose as normal. This isn't necessarily incriminating, but it is interesting. Perhaps he's busier than he used to be. I know I am. Perhaps, however, he's a Werewolf trying for a lower profile than he usually has.

Secondly, I'm waiting for him to come up with some big, everybody-analyse-the-next-person-on-the-list sort of thing, or maybe him to put forward a list of generally known innocents, and try to orchestrate a fixed lynch. Maybe he's learning from experience, or maybe he's taken my past berations to heart, or maybe he doesn't have time... or maybe he's a Werewolf... but this seems very un-Mormish to me.

Well, that's enough for now. I'll be back later to vote.

Or not. :p

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 01:50 PM

Both Naria and Marco have only posted six times, at the moment of writing. Both have been silent and sweeping under the radar, so to speak.

Naria

Post 1 - says little.

Post 2 - Votes for Nilp as he is crazy.

Fair enough under normal circumstances, but what was the point? A vote for Valier or Wayne - with 3 each - would have had more chance of determining the outcome than a throwaway vote for Nilp. Or even a vote for Abercrombie, if you suspected her. Three perfectly good options, but instead she throws her vote away.

Post 3 - As has already been said, she says she will post a comment of each villager later but then fails to do so. She also claims others are doing a good enough job of analysis - a very dangerous view, because all other analyses are potentially undertaken by wolves. She claims she has been quiet due to computer problems.

Post 4 - Says she doesn't like double lynchings. Seems logical enough, no need to do the wolves work for them unless we are pretty certain of our candidates.

Post 5 - Again, asks for forgiveness on the basis of computer problems. She also claims she goes through all posts to see what people are saying, and claims she is not good at reading between the lines. Again, this shows a dangerous willingness to accept other people's words at face value.

She then says she will make her own decisions - but using her gut instead of her head. Why anybody would prefer the use of an organ usually destined to processing ones meals over one's brain is beyond me.

She votes Form. A reasonably safe vote, but one with the potential to not be.

Last post - Says there was a storm. Posts her views on everybody, then leaves.

In conclusion, her silence seems to have been accounted for a lot better than others. However, it is the useless votes that incriminate. Her unwillingness to form her own ideas is also very worrying. So I agree, one to watch.

Marcolie

Day 1 - nothing

Post 1 - Says computer was broken. Vaguely believes in wayne, Gil, Valier and Glirdan's guilt.

Post 2 - Suspects Cailin for this ridiculous notion of "thought steering."
Suspects SpM because of "strength at playing." Eh?!
Thinks Glirdan is innocent.
Advocates voting for Gil, wayne, Valier or Naria based on their quietness. Er... a little rich.
Says she suspects Garin, similarly to morm "don't know exactly why."

Post 3 - Says she had the opportunity to vote, but can see no reason why she didn't. Doesn't try to defend himself on this. Seems a bit odd.

Posr 4 - Votes for wayne, with little choice, obviously. Says there's a possibility that Cailin is a wolf hiding behind Rangerism.

Post 5 - Says it's unnerving that Naria has yet to vote for an innocent. And for once, I agree.
Says she didn't realise how quiet she was but again advocates lynching the quiet. This seems very fishy. So... should we lynch you, Marco?
Says she thinks Form is the cobbler. I agree.
Doesn't suspect gil for being himself.

Post 6 - Says she will probably vote for Naria.

I'm afraid I don't have time for Gil just at the moment. After doing him, I'd like to take a look at Malka, Garin, SpM and Nilp, in that order. I fear SpM will be rather hefty though, and will not be able to manage it today.

Out of Naria and Marco, both seem suspicious. Naria's willingness to let others think for her, and her meaningless vote on day one, count against her. Marco's urgency to kill quiet people whilst ignoring herself is worrying. Neither goes out of their way to justify votes.

Garin

02-10-2006, 01:56 PM

Anyway, if we are trying to rid ourselves of the silent ones, why to kill someone who has just started talking?
A certain atmosphere of desperation seems to ring in Marc's post.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-10-2006, 01:57 PM

I have to vote now. Hmph.

The votes thus far are:

Kath -> mormegil
Nilp -> Gil
Glirdan -> Gil
mormegil -> Formendacil
Garin -> Márcolië
Sauce -> Naria
Naria -> Formendacil

Score: Formendacil-2, Gil-2, Márcolië-1, mormegil-1, Naria-1

If morm is a wolf, why didn't he put Gil clearly on the lead to save himself? Or maybe he has his comrades waiting if he needs to be saved because it could have looked overly defensive to vote for Gil in his position.

What should I do then? Make a tie, perhaps, for tradition's sake?
TGWBS presents a sound case, but I feel hesitant to vote for morm because I haven't analysed his posts myself yet. Although maybe that's just why I should vote for him, really. :rolleyes:

Ah, well.

++malkatoj

May we have some luck at last.

edit: Cross-posted with TGWBS and Garin, if someone's interested to know.

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 02:00 PM

TGWBS, I don't know what to say to you other than that which I have already said. You do seem to be taking out of context a couple of things. I did not begin to attack Cailin on the first day I did mention that something wasn't sitting right with me. The second day I noted why and stated it to everyone and commenced my attack. My suspicion continued because of her general behavior.Yet you don't take into account that your entire suspicion - that she was "influencing us" - was based on comments that everybody makes all the time, and that the point of being innocent IS to influence others and get them to believe you! Can you adress these points?

About the comment that I didn't have time to explain, that's simply because I didn'tAnd you have as yet failed to explain other than your "feelings." I don't like people who vote with their guts - Naria and Formen, be warned.

It is note worthy that others thought along the same lines as I and yet for some reason you mention them not.You were the first to cast suspicion on Cailin. After this, people started paying attention to her, because you had focussed the spotlight on her.

The Saucepan Man

02-10-2006, 02:27 PM

I'm sorry, but I have to say this. To date, I have trusted you and seen the sense in much of what you have been saying, TGWBS. I saw the sense in your case against mormegil yesterday, even though I did not agree with it. It was clearly and logically stated. Yet your case against morm today seems to have transformed into something of a single-minded persecution of him, and it unnerves me.

I felt much the same way as mormegil yesterday about Cailin. That is why I voted for her, although I am not sure that I expressed my reasons with any more precision than morm did. I reached that view entirely independently, before I had seen what mormegil had to say about her (on Day 3 at least). Admittedly, his opinion on her seemed to validate my own, but we all draw comfort from the fact that others are thinking along the same lines as we are, do we not?

I am not saying that morm is innocent. But I do have the sense that he, like me, is one who has been trying his best to find a Wolf but making wrong choices at every turn. And that he has had less time than he is accustomed to to do so.

I appreciate that, if morm is lynched and turns out to be a Wolf, these words may well condemn me. But I am prepared to take that risk, for I have a feeling that he is innocent.

mormegil

02-10-2006, 02:57 PM

Yet you don't take into account that your entire suspicion - that she was "influencing us" - was based on comments that everybody makes all the time, and that the point of being innocent IS to influence others and get them to believe you! Can you adress these points?

I thought I had stated that her behavior and I used the best logic I had at the time I'm sorry if didn't have sufficient evidence for you but I am doing my best and horrible at that. You continue to ask the same questions of me and I think I answer them sufficiently. So from this point forward I no longer will address your questions unless you give me something new.

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 02:57 PM

Yet your case against morm today seems to have transformed into something of a single-minded persecution of him, and it unnerves me.Apologies if it unnerves you, but I am certain that we have a wolf here. And whilst it is very definitely a persecution, I won't deny that, it is not singleminded. I wanted to vote for morm at the offset, but instead decided to analyse Naria, Marco and Gil before casting a vote. I have finished with the first two and in both cases found reason for suspicion. Gil I shall do as soon as I finish this reply. Indeed, a review was entirely necessary, considering that my secondary suspect beforehand had been Glirdan, and by the end of tomorrow, if I live, I intend to have covered as much of the village as possible.

That said, while I do suspect Naria, Marco and Formen, the focus of my day remains morm.

I felt much the same way as mormegil yesterday about Cailin. That is why I voted for her, although I am not sure that I expressed my reasons with any more precision than morm did. I reached that view entirely independently, before I had seen what mormegil had to say about herA brave thing to admit to. I will confess, I saw your post claiming that you had reached your own conclusions about Cailin a few days ago, but dismissed it. I presumed that mormegil had influenced you, even if you yourself had not noticed this.

As to how that affects my beliefs... well, put simply, I saw no reason to suspect Cailin, and it surprises me that you, SpM, did. I don't think you are a wolf - much the opposite infact - but that seems odd. Perhaps I simply missed something with regards to her. But I still think morm is guilty.

I have a feeling that he is innocent.How strong is that feeling?

The Saucepan Man

02-10-2006, 03:05 PM

How strong is that feeling?I have no certainty, but it is fairly strong as he seems to be in much the same position as me and I can therefore identify with the way that he has behaved.

But you know where my conclusions have got me so far ... :rolleyes:

If you feel that strongly yourself, vote for him. Depending on where the Wolves are, it might make for an interesting end to the day's voting.

I must go now.

malkatoj

02-10-2006, 03:11 PM

I'd like to thank SpM for defending Morm. He (Mormegil) really doesn't seem wolfish, and I don't quite understand why you all think he does. If anyone would like to try to convince me of his wolfishness, feel free to try in the hour we have left. Also, SpM, that post lowered you on my 'suspicious' list, simply because I believe Morm to be innocent. Thought I'd let you know.

On the other hand--Naria. Oh, Naria. You were completely under my radar until this list:

Morm--unsure of right now
Garin-- not too many thoughts right now just that he seems to be quite agreeable this game, maybe a new way of playing?
Nilp--starting to make sense. kinda
Spawn--unsure of right now
SPM--hard to read, just like his posts. Can't put my finger on
Malka--haven't put too much thought into her yet, which is probably not a good thing
Gil--has made me uneasy since the quick vote after Wayne
Glirdan--confused about, something isn't sitting right
Marcolie--unsure of right now
Form--have stated my thoughts of him
Kath--same as Malka
TGWBS--leary of

Does anyone else feel like this is a million (okay...11) different ways of saying "I have no idea what this person is"? Basically, it looks like she's a wolf who can't find suspicion in anyone. It must be hard to suspect someone you know to be innocent, eh? That would make it awfully hard for a wolf to suspect an ordo. Really, this post has put you solidly on my 'to lynch' list.

TGWBS: I hate to repeat SpM, but that post accusing (continuing to accuse) Morm seems completely unreasonable, jumpy and randomly accusatory?

So, my list right now:

INNOCENT
Malkatoj

PROBABLY INNOCENT
Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion

UNKNOWN (or just under my radar, which is almost more suspicious)
Glirdan
Garin
Kath
Marcolie
Gil-Galad

WOLFISH
Dancing Spawn
Naria
TGWBS

With less than an hour left, I cast my vote for today for

++NARIA

Edit-note: Cross posted with Morm, SpM and TGWBS

Formendacil

02-10-2006, 03:27 PM

Alas that there are not more hours in a day... but the time has come for me to vote... Confound pizza-making, and everything to do with it!

Now then, I'm tied for first... I'll admit that I don't like that. I'm innocent, after all, though expecting you to believe that seems to be a bit much...

So... how to save myself a wee bit...

Naria.

Sorry, about it, old girl, but I really don't want to be lynched, the village consensus seems to be that you're one o' the guilty ones. I'll admit that you're fairly suspicious, although past experience suggests that that's just your style.

But I'm selfish.

++ Naria

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 03:30 PM

Two people have come out in support of mormegil, which is interesting. I was almost tempted to change my vote by SpM's appeal, but both malkatoj's and mormegil's own posts have convinced me to stick to my guns.

++MORMEGIL

the guy who be short

02-10-2006, 03:30 PM

Sorry, I don't have time to analyse Gil today.

malkatoj

02-10-2006, 03:40 PM

Votes:

MORMEGIL:
-Kath
-TGWBS

GIL-GALAD:
-Glirdan
-Nilp

FORMENDACIL:
-Mormegil
-Naria

MARCOLIE:
-Garin

NARIA:
-Saucepan
-Malkaoj
-Formendacil

MALKATOJ:
-Dancing Spawn

Not Voted:
-Marcolie
-Gil-Galad

Meneltarmacil

02-10-2006, 04:00 PM

Time's up!

Villagers, please cease posting for the Day. Votes will be totaled and a death scene posted momentarily.

Meneltarmacil

02-10-2006, 04:22 PM

"Naria!" mormegil called. "You're coming with us!"

"Sorry," she said. "I was just having a nice little chat with these dolphins here. What can I do for you?"

At that moment, the villagers seized Naria and dragged her off to the gallows. Partway there, however, something terrifying happened.

Before the villagers' eyes, Naria underwent a frightening transformation. Grayish-black hair grew all over her body as her snout lengthened and large fangs developed in her mouth. Her transformation completed, Naria turned to the rising moon and let out a bone-chilling howl.

The villagers backed into defensive postures. As Naria the Werewolf lunged forward, Nilpaurion Felagund, Kath, Formendacil, and The Saucepan Man, together with Garin and his pigs, rushed her at once.

When the dust cleared, the villagers started to celebrate. They had finally slain their first Wolf.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
malkatoj- Retired Miracle Man (who is not really a man)
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street
Márcolië Lamen- Second official 8th day adventist Pastafarian
Formendacil- Village historian
Kath- Local investigator into the paranormal
the guy who be short- Mermaid-catcher and fisherman

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4

Wolves: 2
Villagers: 10

It is now Night 5. Wolves, begin your PMing. I need names from the Wolves, Seer, and Hunter.

Meneltarmacil

02-11-2006, 04:00 PM

After waking up in the morning after the celebration, the villagers noticed that Márcolië Lamen was missing.

The villagers made their way to her house, located next to the Second Official Eighth Day Adventist Temple of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, to look for clues.

“What happened here?” dancing spawn of ungoliant asked as she surveyed the unusual scene before them.

Márcolië Lamen’s remains lay on the floor, along with a great deal of what appeared to be tomato sauce, noodles, and mozzarella cheese strewn all over the place.

“She’s definitely all dead,” malkatoj stated. “Only one thing I can do now.”

While malkatoj was collecting loose change from around the room, the guy who be short found a note on the floor. Formendacil read it to the village.

The first sentence was in Márcolië’s handwriting:

“May the Flying Spaghetti Monster take me in peace.”

The rest of it, however, had been written by someone else.

“Dear Márcolië Lamen,
Thanks for giving us such a great idea.
It was quite tasty.
Yum yum,
-The Wolves
PS: Villagers, you’re still doomed.”

With another Ordinary Villager dead, the villagers started to discuss who they would lynch next.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
malkatoj- Retired Miracle Man (who is not really a man)
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street
Formendacil- Village historian
Kath- Local investigator into the paranormal
the guy who be short- Mermaid-catcher and fisherman

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5

Wolves: 2
Villagers: 9

It is now Day 5. Villagers, you may begin posting.

Glirdan

02-11-2006, 04:06 PM

Wow!! Another shocker! But I must say again that the Wolves are smart. Going after Marcolie (like Aiwendil and Valier) was smart becasue once again, we don't have that many clues leading towards anyone. She was a quiet one until recently. I'm going to go over her posts from yesterDay. I'll have my analysis up shortly.

Glirdan

02-11-2006, 04:27 PM

Marcolie: Posted twice all Day yesterDay and did not vote.

Post 1: Expresses sorrow for Cailin and comments that by giving up her life, she was able to save the Seer one more Day. Says that it is unnerving that Naria did not vote for a known innocent as of yet. Notes that she herself has been rather quiet and sugests that we should vote for those who are really quiet as well. Does short analyses on those who have barely posted who were still alive (herself and Naria included in it). Thinks that Form is perhaps the Cobbler. Suggests that we live Form for now. Finds that Gil is an odd player because we can't really understand him yet trusts him more than Form. Finds that Kath is more of a Wolf than the other two yet won't accuse her becasue she wasn't there to defend herself. Thinks that at least one of the people out of those she listed is Wolf (turns out that she was right on that) and also believes that not all three Wolves would be quiet. Believes that the Wolves would be Naria who is the quiet one (proven), Garin the loud one and not sure who the other would be.

Post 2: This one is plain and simple. Lists who's voted that far into the Day and for whom. Believes we should add one more person to the list and it should be Naria.

Well, from all that, Garin is looking rather guilty now. He's voted for all known innocents which is very incriminating. He is really looking suspicious in my eyes. I believe, if I have to vote early (which I may indeed have to do), my vote will be for him.

Formendacil

02-11-2006, 04:39 PM

Marcolie....

Now why would the wolves kill Marcolie? Quite frankly, I find this an odd choice on the part of the Wolves... Marcolie has, thus far, been a slightly suspicious member of the village. Her name came up a great deal in the last couple days as a potential danger. For the Wolves to kill her suggests that they aren't interested in keeping a lot of suspicious people around- which suggests that the remaining Werewolves are receiving very little attention or suspicion from the village, if they are keen to kill off someone who wasn't threatening anyone vehemently yesterday, and who was a good potential alternative suspect to themselves....

I agree with Glirdan that it was a very smart choice for the Wolves to make, since it leaves only a faint trail. It also makes me think that we should look at a somewhat different list of Villagers today. The people, in fact, who had NOTHING to do with Marcolie.

Also, looking at the list, it seems to me that we are running low on Ordinary, Innocent Villlagers. Only about a third of us are in that category... Interesting, how the Werewolfing trends of late have meant fairly long survival for Gifteds and Werewolves. An an Innocent Villager, that troubles me... as a possible Cursed, it intrigues me...

Formendacil

02-11-2006, 04:41 PM

Looking back at the opening, rules page, I see that there IS no Cursed... Which is a relief. Apologies for any confusion I may have, inadvertantly, be causing.

Garin

02-11-2006, 05:06 PM

Well, I didn't want to mention this because it makes me look suspicious in its own right. I think it quite obvious that the wolves are trying to set me up. TWO nightly deaths in a row from people that have either voted for me or raised suspicion of me in their last breaths? I am hardly that bold, especially since suspicions of me came early. It is someting I am used to. Marcolie was correct in her suspicions of Naria and I think that the wolves just likes to feast on quiet ones that leave slight trails. I stand by my vote for her though I am sorry the wolves took another innocent, at least she wasn't gifted. They might have thought she was the seer and she was covering her tracks by mentioning an innocent and a wolf in one sentence.
I still think the quiet ones make decent targets, because they help little.
I need to peruse for a while and perhaps analyze or, at the very least write a sentence about each villager.

Garin

02-11-2006, 05:11 PM

Looking back at the opening, rules page, I see that there IS no Cursed...
Thank you Form because I thought there WAS a cursed, but I see you were right.
I swear Mod Meneltarmacil said there was going to a cursed on the original werewolf thread but it didn't seem to make it to the actual game.
This is reassuring.

mormegil

02-11-2006, 06:03 PM

malkatoj

02-11-2006, 06:08 PM

So we've killed one wolf--most wonderful. We want to kill the other two.

If the guy who be short is not a wolf, I will eat my holocaust cloak.

Here's the deal: I'm the seer. No, I don't have both of the other wolves, but I've got one and he must be killed. I'm only announcing this now because I've already shed enough suspicion on TGWBS (at least, I think I have) that the wolves might be out to get me. So this solidifies it, right? Now they'll definitely want me dead, and I just blew my chance of dreaming the last wolf. I don't, however, feel like dropping subtle hints that perhaps the wolves will pick up on before you guys. I think that with two known wolves, it'll be a lot easier to deduce the third than it would be to deduce two with only one known.

(Also, I have limited computer access right now, and I'd rather you not lynch me because of that and then not know who's who.)

Plus, it's possible I have no idea on the third and they won't kill me tonight. Then I get another night, and you guys will (finally) believe that Nilpaurion, Saucepan, Mormegil and Formendacil are all perfectly ordinary villagers. And TGWBS is a wolf. Lynch him.

++THE GUY WHO BE FURRY

Thank you.

Garin

02-11-2006, 07:50 PM

I'd like to believe Malkatoj but she has accused someone who no one else has suspected. If you are the seer, thank you for your service. Why were you so quiet? It wasn't helpful until possibly now. It seems the village could be doomed.

Garin

02-11-2006, 08:00 PM

The problem with Malkatoj is that I found the same villagers were innocent, if only by instinct, I really need to think about this.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-11-2006, 09:53 PM

Thank you very much for that, malkatoj. :) You have my undying gratitude, and that of this village, in narrowing the list of suspects.

Only five unknown villagers left.

dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Glirdan
Gil-galad

As I said before, I won't accuse spawn

The Kath - Glirdan theory is now defunct, since there is only one Werewolf left.

Garin and Gil-galad still unnerves me.

Okay, I'll still be back for some insights into the final Werewolf.

Hunter: If you are in the list of suspects, PLEASE DECLARE YOURSELF NOW.

With four unknowns left, we could do two double-lynches and win this game. That is, if the Hunter is not yet proven innocent by malkatoj's declaration.

Now, for my vote:

++the guy who be short and furry

You finally broke the Ordo curse in style, monsieur. :)

Garin

02-11-2006, 10:02 PM

I don't want to believe that TGBWS is a wolf because he seemed to be one of the first to vote for Naria in the game, It could have been a wolf thing but I won't be surprised if we are falling into a trap. May Eru have mercy upon my soul if I am wrong:
++The Guy Who Be Short
It was a masterful play if you are a wolf my friend, but there is but but one way to find out. It seems everyone found you innocent.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-11-2006, 10:15 PM

It was a safe vote. It bore almost no chance of taking Naria to the gallows, since the only reasoning I see for guy's vote is his fondness for me, and Naria voted for me during the previous DAY. It might have been a set-up, even.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-11-2006, 10:26 PM

Smoking gun! Smoking gun! Smoking gun!

(Or, perhaps a bloodied teeth. :D )

(Oh, and thank you, Glirdan. :) )

Naria trusts Gil (unknown) more than Form (innocent).

Double-lynch, anyone?

Garin

02-11-2006, 10:26 PM

Nilpaurion Felagund: It was a safe vote. It bore almost no chance of taking Naria to the gallows, since the only reasoning I see for guy's vote is his fondness for me, and Naria voted for me during the previous DAY.
Thanks Nilp but I can't see comrades voting for comrades, it must be my upbringing or my lack thereof. Nonetheless, my vote is cast. Godspeed, Guy.

EDIT: cross posted with Nilp: I can see Gil lurking in the shadows but my vote has been cast.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-11-2006, 10:44 PM

See, it's a pretty good tactic. You can't seem to get over the idea of a Werewolf voting for a comrade. Therefore, some Werewolves do use it.

Umm, and about my post above: Sorry, it was Márcolië's thoughts, not Naria's. You may safely ignore that post.

Garin

02-11-2006, 11:12 PM

Well Nilp, I don't see Glirdan or Kath being out of the web, or den. Gil remains in the circle, if Malkatoj ends up being the seer I guess we'll know more. I stand behind her innocents (the people she thinks are innocent) but I will be surprised if "The Guy" is a wolf.
Horribly, surprised.
EDIT Changed Will to Well. Plus I'm just shocked on the recent revalations and it seems few are about, I beg our community to get into this.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-11-2006, 11:14 PM

Are you hiding something? Out with it.

Garin

02-11-2006, 11:18 PM

Are you hiding something? Out with it.
No, I thought we were being cordial, I guess I'm just new to this and can't believe how conniving some are. That is not directed at you.

mormegil

02-11-2006, 11:40 PM

Well so much for my analysis...oddly I was considering doing an analysis on Malka too. Now what? Nilp since you are innocent and seem to want the double lynch, which I don't disagree with, who do you propose? I'm looking at the 3G's Glirdan, Garin and Gil-Galad. Most likely Glirdan because even though SpM thinks he's innocent I still haven't been fully convinced. Gil is confusing but that's Gil and Garin is suspicious but I don't believe him to be a wolf.

Garin

02-11-2006, 11:41 PM

Anyways, I have to truffle hunt in about seven hours so I need to take to take a rest. It is unfortunate that few people are about at this hour and that is just me and Nilp, but I will stand with my vote... I am simply shocked by what has happened today. I thought I had a good idea of who was innocent and who was wolvish and if it turns true, my intuition was ever so wrong. It is more a thing of pride. I presently believe Malkatoj, I'm just kicking myself silly.

EDIT: cross-posted with Morm, see how wrong I have been?

mormegil

02-12-2006, 12:52 AM

Before I go to bed I just got to thinking about it and Malka may have dreamt of a cobbler. Does this mean anything? I'm not sure but if she did it may be dangerous to wholly trust all of us and my guess if the cobbler is amongst us would be Formendacil for reasons stated throughout. Any thoughts on this?

Formendacil

02-12-2006, 01:04 AM

Odd! Marcolie's death is of course but also our new found advocacy in Formendacil. If I didn't know better I would think him to be starting off the game hoping to get a lot of suspicion and then slowing tapering off that suspicion. I've seen many instances where this happens and we seem to forget that person that we suspected at the beginning. Hopefully I will have a moment to analyze his posts and come up with some evidence. As it is the weekend, perhaps I will.

Terribly sorry about that, my dead (did I just write dead? I meant "dear") Morm, I shall try and act a bit more suspicious from now on, so as to keep in 'form'.

By all means, analyze my posts... I've been so blatantly suspicious you ought to find a few things.

Sorry about that last, helpful post. I couldn't think of any ways to act subtly over-the-top while still putting forward some useful information. Don't worry, it shan't happen again.

Now, we have evidence, I suppose, from our Seer about the definite guilt of The Wolf Who Be Short, as well as the confirmed innocence of Nil[, Morm, SPM, and- WAIT A MINUTE!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M PROVEN INNOCENT??? NO MORE KEEPING PEOPLE GUESSING???? GEEZ! WHAT A SPOILSPORT

Okay, now, anyway... I have no idea what to do about finding the other Werewolf. All I can do to be useful is to vote:

++ The Guy Who Be Short

Wait...

I just remembered something...

The Cobbler, according to the official definition of the rules, appears as an Innocent Villager if the Seer dreams of them, meaning that Morm, Nilp, and SPM are all still potential Cobblers.

Crap.

Well, at least I know that I'm not the Cobbler. Getting you all to believe me... well, that's another matter.

Hmm... Maybe suspicious Garin is the Cobbler.

Formendacil

02-12-2006, 01:05 AM

Just Cross-Posted With Morm.

Morm: I already told you, I PROMISED, that I am not the Cobbler. :p

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 04:20 AM

Now, this is most excellent! Malkatoj's vote for Naria pretty much showed that she's innocent, but the fact that she could give us four innocents more and a wolf is great. Thank you.

How did the wolves vote:

Day1:

Formendacil -> Valier
Nilpaurion -> Nilp
Valier -> Wayne
Abercrombie -> Nilp
Cailín -> Wayne
mormegil -> Valier
Sauce -> Abercrombie
TGWBS -> Abercrombie
Garin -> Valier
spawn -> Abercrombie
Aiwendil -> Abercrombie
Kath -> Abercrombie
Shelob -> Garin
Malkatoj -> Wayne
Glirdan -> Sauce
Naria -> Nilp

So, there was a wolf voting for Abercrombie after all. Every lynching candidate of Day 1 is a known innocent except Garin. Shelob's vote doesn't automatically make him suspicious, though, because as the record shows, innocents are easily mistaken.

Day 2:

Nilp -> malkatoj
malkatoj -> Kath
Valier -> Garin
mormegil -> Cailín
Sauce -> Shelob
TGWBS -> Naria
spawn -> Shelob
Formendacil -> Sauce
Cailín -> Garin
Kath -> Valier
Shelob -> Cailín
Garin -> Shelob

The infamous wolf -> wolf vote...
That was a weird day with so many non-voters. Anyway, if Kath or Garin was a wolf, would TGWBS had voted for Naria instead putting one of the three innocents on the lead. Maybe he felt safe to do that since there had been so much talk about Shelob and Cailín that day.

Day 3:

Wayne -> Wayne
Gil -> Wayne
malkatoj -> Sauce
Glirdan -> Sauce
mormegil -> Cailín
Nilp -> Cailín
Sauce -> Cailín
Naria -> Formendacil
TGWBS -> mormegil
spawn -> Wayne
Garin -> Cailín
Kath -> mormegil
Formendacil -> Wayne
Cailín -> Wayne
Márcolië -> Wayne

Well, no wolves among the lynching candidates, so the wolves were free to vote as they pleased.

Day 4:

Kath -> mormegil
Nilp -> Gil
Glirdan -> Gil
mormegil -> Formendacil
Garin -> Márcolië
Sauce -> Naria
Naria -> Formendacil
spawn -> malkatoj
malkatoj -> Naria
Formendacil -> Naria
TGWBS -> mormegil

Naria made a tie between Formendacil and Gil. Was this an attempt to save Gil? However, she had made a case against Formendacil on Day 3, so it was natural that she'd vote for him again, since she apparently had no thoughts of anyone else.
TGWBS could have tried to save Naria by voting Gil, but if Gil's a wolf, it would have been out of question. Besides, he practically had to vote for morm because he had been so vocal about his theory.

More thoughts as soon as I can.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 04:49 AM

First, for the sake of good form (and partially for the sake of good Form ;) ), here is yesterday's voting:

1. Kath for mormegil (mormegil-1)
2. Nilp for Gil-Galad (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-1)
3. Glirdan for Gil-Galad (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2)
4. mormegil for Formendacil (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-1)
5. Garin for Márcolië (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-1, Márcolië-1)
6. SpM for Naria (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-1, Márcolië-1, Naria-1)
7. Naria for Formendacil (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-2, Márcolië-1, Naria-1)
8. Dancing spawn for malkatoj (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-2, Márcolië-1, Naria-1, malkatoj-1)
9. malkatoj for Naria (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-2, Márcolië-1, Naria-2, malkatoj-1)
10. Formendacil for Naria (mormegil-1, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-2, Márcolië-1, Naria-3, malkatoj-1)
11. TGWBS for mormegil (mormegil-2, Gil-Galad-2, Formendacil-2, Márcolië-1, Naria-3, malkatoj-1)

Did not vote: Gil-Galad, Márcolië

Secondly, I would like to thank the Wolves for not killing me last night. I was pretty sure that they would, after I started the voting for Naria. It's why I overslept ... :rolleyes:

Thirdly, although I mourn the death of Marcolie as much as I would any innocent, I would also like to thank the Wolves for killing someone who would have been one of my chief suspects today. While I see the sense in what people are saying about them killing Wolves who leave little trail, it is nevertheless helpful to me that they are narrowing down my list of suspects.

Fourthly, I would like to thank malkatoj for declaring herself. Given the pattern of Wolfish kills, she would have been in danger tonight and she has provided excellent quality information. It was the right thing to do, malka. :) I suppose we cannot be absolutely sure about her until everyone has posted, but instinctively I believe her.

Fifth, I would like to curse TGWBS for being such a fiendishly good Wolf. I was beginning to have some concerns about him, based on his determined attack on morm, but I wonder whether we would actually have pegged him without malka's help.

Assuming malka is the Seer, the following remain unknowns:

dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Glirdan
Gil-galad

I am inclined to think that Garin is innocent on the basis that the Wolves' kills have often seemed to incriminate him. He was the only villager whom Marcolie's death pointed towards. I suspect that the Wolves have been making a concerteds effort to frame him all along, although I do not discount the possibility of a fiendish double bluff.

Glirdan, I still see as innocent for the reasons stated yesterday. I have seen nothing to change that analysis.

Given TGWBS' staunch defence of her, I am now more concerned about Kath than I was before.

Spawn worries me also, on the basis that I have instinctively trusted her all along for the good sense that she talks. I felt the same way about TGWBS.

As for Gil-Galad - well, who knows?

As others have pointed out, there may well be a Cobbler among those who have been declared innocent. While we need to bear that in mind, I do not think we should overly concern ourselves with finding him or her at this stage. We have more pressing matters to attend to.

I will withold my vote for now. It will almost certainly be for TGWBS, but there remains a possibility that it will be needed elsewhere. In the meantime, I have some further research to do, based on the knowledge that we now have.

the guy who be short

02-12-2006, 05:07 AM

Wait! Me? Werewolf?! This is preposterou-

Oh, who am I kidding? :rolleyes: I knew we should have gone for malka... Kill her tonight, will you, fellow wolfy? And then, while you-know-who is certainly the you-know-what, what with the innocent list, it's safer to pick them off than killing you-know-who.

Cobbler, do your best, please. I have an idea who you are, but certainty eludes me. Stay alive until the end, if you can. Do not confuse, but aim to live. Werewolves can still win, and my fellow wolf will make sure to kill you humanely. :)

Well, it was fun, villagers. I think you should lynch morm anyway, look at his track record. Do that tomorrow, will you? He could go after any of you others next!

++MORMEGIL

I rest secure in the knowledge that today's voting record will show you nothing, anyway.

Finally, some Shakespearedil:
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones.Remember me for the good I did. My aid should surely not be discredited simply due to my lycanthropic tendencies when dark falls.

Farewell.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 05:14 AM

Hehe. I was just about to sound a note of caution on the basis that it seems rather fortuitous that all of malkatoj's dreams have been for villagers who remain alive.

But TGWBS has thankfully confirmed her status. :D

One think I would like to hear from malka on (before she dies - as she almost certainly will tonight). Did you dream of all those that you have declared innocent? It is not entirely clear from your post that you did.

I also presume that you have not dreamed of the Hunter, as you would have told us if you did. But please confirm.

I am pretty sure that I know who the Hunter is, but it is for them to declare themselves, not me. I think that you should. The Wolf will think twice about kiling you, on the basis that, even on a random shot, you should have a 50:50 chance of killing the last Wolf. And the Wolf is certainly unlikely to kill you tonight.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 05:57 AM

OK, here is my analysis of the voting thus far. It concentrates on the votes of those who remain unknown quantities, assuming that those who malkatoj has declared innocent are indeed innocent (although one of them could, of course, still be the Cobbler). I will not re-post the lists of votes, as they are all available further up the discussion (thanks spawn), and it will take up unnecessary space to post them again.

Day 1 - If the Wolves were looking to spread their votes, then the votes of dancing spawn and Kath speak in their favour. They both voted for Abercrombie, whom TGWBS had voted for. However, it remains possible that two Wolves voted for the same innocent villager, particularly on Day 1. Garin's vote put Valier, a known innocent, ahead. Glirdan's vote for me could be seen as a safe throwaway vote. Gil-Galad did not vote.

Day 2 - Given that we know Naria was a Wolf, Kath's vote looks like an innocent one. She could have put Naria in a safer position by voting for either Shelob or Garin. Garin's vote looks suspicious as it put Shelob ahead. Spawn's could go either way as it put Shelob ahaead of Naria, but was perhaps a risky vote for a Wolf at that stage. Gil-Galad and Glirdan did not vote, and neither did Naria. How likely is it that two Wolves would not turn up to vote?

Day 3 - Difficult to tell much as all the votes were for known innocents. Kath's vote looks the most suspicious as it carried with it the least chance of revealing that it was cast for a known innocent. She voted for the same villager (mormegil) that TGWBS had voted for, but mormegil was unlikely to be lynched that day. If Garin is a Wolf, he was taking quite a risk in voting for Cailin.

Day 4 - Kath voted for mormegil and TGWBS later followed suit. How likely is it that two Wolves would vote for the same villager in the circumstances of Day 4? Possible, I suppose, given that Naria was in danger when TGWBS voted. Glirdan's vote is the least suspicious as it was quite likely that Gil-Galad would be lynched at the time he voted. The votes of Garin and dancing spawn are quite innocuous, and could have been Wolfish attempts to hide. Dancing spawn could have voted to try to save Naria instead of voting for malkatoj, but that would have been a risky vote for a Wolf. Gil-Galad did not vote again. How likely is it that a Wolf would fail to vote 3 days out of four?

Hmm, difficult to draw any solid conclusions. I remain inclined to view Glirdan as innocent and the way that the voting has gone makes me think that Gil-Galad is too, although he could be the Cobbler.

Garin's votes look the most suspicious, but that is not necessarily the sign of a Wolf as it is quite likely that a Wolf would have voted more cautiously than he has. And his suspicious voting pattern ties in with the idea that the Wolves have been looking to frame him with their nightly votes.

As for Kath, her voting pattern could go either way. TGWBS has spoken in support of her quite frequently. An attempt to protect his Wolfish companion, or an attempt to establish false guilt by association? Difficult to know.

Dancing spawn really does concern me, though. She has been vocal throughout. Her contributions have made good sense. Mostly because of that, she has not yet attracted a single vote. Is she a very clever and careful Wolf who has succeeded in slipping almost entorely beneath our collective radars?

I will have to go back and review what has been said throughout our four previous days of discussion. For today, I see little point in a double-lynch unless we can be reasonably sure that we have identified the final Wolf. I am not nearly certain enough to countenance voting for anyone other than TGWBS at this stage. We do not want to help the last Wolf by eliminating an innocent with our known Wolf. We would then be two innocents and one Wolf down tomorrow.

the guy who be short

02-12-2006, 06:24 AM

If anybody is interested, I support a double lynch. Kill as many villagers as you can. :D We can still kill morm off, people.

*Manic Laughter* :p

the guy who be short

02-12-2006, 06:26 AM

Does malka's vote count? Technically, she didn't vote for me. Perhaps a wolvish ploy to cast suspicion on me, yet avoid voting for an ally?

Oh, wait...

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 07:24 AM

I will have to go back and review what has been said throughout our four previous days of discussion. For today, I see little point in a double-lynch unless we can be reasonably sure that we have identified the final Wolf. I am not nearly certain enough to countenance voting for anyone other than TGWBS at this stage. We do not want to help the last Wolf by eliminating an innocent with our known Wolf. We would then be two innocents and one Wolf down tomorrow.Actually, a double lynching would give us better chances to find the final wolf tomorrow even if we guess wrong toDay.

Known innocents:
Formendacil
malkatoj
mormegil
Nilp
Sauce

Unknowns:
Garin
Gil
Glirdan
Kath
spawn

Known wolves:
TGWBS

TGWBS will be lynched toDay. Malkatoj will be killed next Night, and at dawn, here we are with four known innocents and five unknowns. If we choose someone to die from the 'unknowns' group with TGWBS, we have tomorrow four known innocents against four unknowns and thus better chances to spot the final wolf. I'm not that fond of "playing safe" *coughWW15cough* but I have nothing against getting rid of the wolves. :p

Dancing spawn really does concern me, though. She has been vocal throughout. Her contributions have made good sense. Mostly because of that, she has not yet attracted a single vote.You're welcome to suspect me as much as you want to, but I can tell you right now that I'm an ordinary villager. :)

Glirdan

02-12-2006, 08:46 AM

Malka the Seer eh? For the longest time, I thought that TGWBS was the Seer. His sudden change in suspicion of me seemed very odd, yet I think he might have caught on to something that the villagers haven't. But now I see it was all a ploy for villagers to trust him and to confuse us.

I'm ok with the double lynching idea but if we are to do that, I still think that we should go for either Garin or Kath. I think there's a stronger case against Kath though. She's really been flying under my radar. Making herself heard yet not attracting to much suspicion. And now, looking back at the voting pattern for the first few Days, she's had the same vote as TGWBS each Day except for day 2 when she voted for Valier instead. Another thing I notice about her is that on everyDay (except for Day 4 because she had to vote early) she's voted late in the Day after the votes have gathered enough for them. She's definetly raised up in my suspicions list.

I'm going to wait to vote to see what else develops.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 09:22 AM

Well, the villagers had better win after all this. I have just spent the best part of my Sunday re-reading the entire thread, when I should have been unpacking boxes and putting up shelves in my new lawyerly residence. :rolleyes: :D

More of that later ...

For now:

TGWBS will be lynched toDay. Malkatoj will be killed next Night, and at dawn, here we are with four known innocents and five unknowns. If we choose someone to die from the 'unknowns' group with TGWBS, we have tomorrow four known innocents against four unknowns and thus better chances to spot the final wolf.OK, the maths works for me. I am up for a double-lynching - if we can organise it. Note, if we are going to do this, the Hunter should declare so that we do not lynch him or her by mistake. That will also give us more known innocents (assuming that malkatoj did not dream of the Hunter).

Problem is that we need to agree on who we should double-lynch. And the last Wolf and the Cobbler are both capable of mucking up our plans, and perhaps even saving TGWBS. We need to be alive to this risk and one or more of our trusted villagers will need to stay around until the end of voting to make sure that things do not go wrong. I may be able to do this. Nilp probably won't be around again today and Formendacil and malkatoj have already voted. How about you, morm?

More in a bit with my thoughts on who the last Wolf might be.

In the meantime - HUNTER, PLEASE DECLARE YOURSELF.

Glirdan

02-12-2006, 09:32 AM

Well, it's oddly quiet toDay.

Now, I know this is going to be both a very stupid and incriminating questions but I have to ask it. Why do we ABSOLUTELY want the Hunter to reveal him/herself? Yes it would have another innocent narrowed down, but by the sounds of it, TGWBS and the other Wolf already know who it is. Here is exactly what he said:

And then, while you-know-who is certainly the you-know-what, what with the innocent list, it's safer to pick them off than killing you-know-who.

Now, does that not seem like they already know who it is? Now TGWBS's suggested plan for the final Wolf is to leave whoever they're talking about in be and go after the people in the innocent list starting with Malka. If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her. Do we really want to risk that chance?

Edit: Cross-posted with SpM

mormegil

02-12-2006, 09:57 AM

On second thought I don't think the double lynching is the greatest idea and we should probably wait until the situation is a bit more desperate.

++TGWBS

I still claim Formendacil is the cobbler and that he should be lynched tomorrow if we don't know who the wolf is.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 10:00 AM

Now, does that not seem like they already know who it is? Now TGWBS's suggested plan for the final Wolf is to leave whoever they're talking about in be and go after the people in the innocent list starting with Malka. If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her. Do we really want to risk that chance? I think TGWBS' "you-know-who" talk was just something he said to spite us. However, if the Hunter is among the known innocents, I don't see why s/he should declare him/herself.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 10:12 AM

Who might be the last Wolf out of the remaining unknowns?

Gil-Galad
An unknown quantity. His posts, and his one vote, tell us very little. But I still have a concern that, with Naria voting infrequently, the third Wolf would not be such a consistent non-voter too.

I, TGWBS, hereby formally declare suspicion of the following: Wayne, SpM, mormegil, Gil, Abercrombie.Four of those he randomly accused on Day 1 are now known to be innocent. Is the fifth also innocent, or did he include a fellow Wolf in that list?

The two others I'm closely watching at the moment are wayne and Gil. Of these two, I find Gil most worrying ... But Gil's vote - that's incriminating! It can't really be construed as anything but a capitalisation on wayne's self-vote.It would be dangerous for a Wolf to cast suspicion, and so strongly, on Gil-Galad if he was a fellow Wolf. This would suggest to me that Gil is not a fellow Wolf.

For myself, I see the werewolves as mormegil, Glirdan, and either Garin or a quiet villager such as wayne, Gil or Marco.Same comment applies. And this also speaks in Garin's favour, given that Garin has generally been under a lot of suspicion. It is possible, however, that TGWBS chose to include one fellow Wolf on that list in an attempt to clear them should he be lynched.

Glirdan
OK, I'll be frank, here. I think that Glirdan is the Hunter. Remember that the Ranger and the Hunter knew who each other were and could communiate during the day? Of all the villagers still alive, Cailin's posts point most towards Glirdan being the Hunter. She defended him quite strongly. Spawn voiced strong suspicion of Cailin and Garin voted for her, so it cannot be either of those two.

Kath
TGWBS made the point yesterday that Kath's votes have been among some of the least suspicious.

Finally, Kath's vote for Abercrombie. Not wolvish at all. Just look at the numbers involved when she voted - it was an incriminating, non-wolf thing to do

I think I will mention Kath. After Day 1, I believed in her innocence due to her voting for Abercrombie last. Yesterday, she was the only one to vote for Valier. Unless she's being incredibly bold, I don't think she's a wolf. Why kill somebody you voted for in the Day?I agreed with what he said about Kath's votes, although the reason that she gave for voting for Abercrombie (following spawn) still seems strange. However, TGWBS's fairly strong defence of Kath gives me reason to worry about her.

Also, one other point to note about Kath, from reviewing her contributions, is that she seems to work by looking at the ideas that others have put forward and basing her own contributions on that - agreeing or disagreeing with others' ideas, rather than putting forward her own. Possibly, a good way for a Wolf to hide.

As has been noted, she has voted the same way as TGWBS on every day, except Day 3 when TGWBS voted for a fellow Wolf. That is incriminating on the face of it, but would two Wolves vote so consistently for the same villagers?

Garin
I really do not think Garin to be a Wolf. If he is, he has been playing very boldly. Just look at this:

Garin voted for Valier on Day 1. Valier voted for him on Day 2. Valier dies on Night 3 and is shown to be innocent.

Garin voted for Shelob on Day 2, to save himself. Shelob is lynched and shown to be innocent.

Cailin strongly suspected Garin and voted for him on Day 2.

Now Garin does look suspicious in my eyes. He mostly just agrees with Saucy and Morm, which is always clever because they are likely people to bring up a case against you.He voted for Cailin on Day 3. Cailin was forced to reveal herself as the Ranger and died on Night 4.

Marcolie Lamen strongly suspected Garin on Day 4, but did not vote. Garin voted for Marcolie Lamen on Day 4.

It makes sense to me for Naria and Garin to be working together, at opposite ends of the spetrum, and then someone else in between.

In fact, I found the post to be wolvish enough and I have too much work to do that I will vote now:
++Márcolië LamenMarcolie Lamen dies on Night 5 and is shown to be innocent.

Garin has some kind of involvement with the death of most of the innocents who have died. Would a Wolf be so foolish as to allow this to happen? Possibly, but it is extremely risky behaviour for a Wolf. The fact that Marcolie died last night tends to suggest to me that it was yet another attmept to frame him and that he is in fact innocent.

Dancing spawn
She has voted for a known innocent on every day and that three of those she has voted for ended up being lynched on the day she voted for them. However, since three of my four votes have been for known innocents, I cannot accuse her on that basis alone. I can find very little else that incriminates her, although that fact in itself is worrying.

On Day 2, however, she did stoke up the suspicion of Shelob and Cailin:

Somehow I'm now starting to feel more uneasy about Shelob and Cailín. I'll go looking back at their posts now and tell if I find something.I will not deny that dancing spawn's suspicions of these two influenced my own thoughts about them. She is a sensible and analytical villager, and so I respect her views. When they match my own thoughts, then they reinforce them. That makes her dangerous in my eyes.

TGWBS's comments are interesting, as far as spawn is concerned:

Spawn was the next to vote. I'm not sure what to make of her. This was when Valier also had three votes, again tying. Without knowing Valier's identity, we can't infer anything.This might be seen as an attempt to tie dancing spawn's innocence to that of Valier (as spawn's vote tied Abercrombie with Valier). Valier was later killed by the Wolves and shown to be innocent.

So, I must say, I feel that all those voting for Abercrombie were innocent. This is not only because I was in the group - it seemed like a rational thing to do, at the time, and while I regret her innocence, I believed it to be logical.By declaring those who voted for Abercrombie to be innocent, he is attempting to clear himself. But is he also attempting to clear either Kath or spawn? It would be a logical thing to do if two Wolves had ended up getting themselves caught in the Abercrombie bandwaggon.

Interestingly, spawn, SpM, Kath and Garin have all voted for innocents twice. I'm not sure how telling this is, as I'm inclined to suspect none of the above, really. Perhaps I shall have to look into all of them individually. I went through Valier's posts, and she doesn't really mention anybody but Garin. As Cailin says, this makes him look bad, but it could easily be a bluff, or double bluff.Again, a possible attempt to clear either spawn or Kath - and he also mentions Garin.

To conclude, I would prefer not to include in any double-lynching Gil-Galad, Garin or Glirdan (the 'three Gs' that everyone else seems so suspicious of).

That leaves Kath or spawn ...

Edit: Cross-posted with Glirdan, morm and spawn, whose comments I shall address shortly.

malkatoj

02-12-2006, 10:17 AM

To answer SpM's question, yes I have dreamt of all those people, and no I have not dreamt of the hunter.

Thanks TGWBS for confirming my Seerdom, you horrible furry wolf.

mormegil

02-12-2006, 10:24 AM

Malka, out of curiousity which order were the dreamt?

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 10:33 AM

Now, I know this is going to be both a very stupid and incriminating questions but I have to ask it. Why do we ABSOLUTELY want the Hunter to reveal him/herself? Yes it would have another innocent narrowed down, but by the sounds of it, TGWBS and the other Wolf already know who it is.Actually, it's not incriminating. It reinforces my view that you are the Hunter. Assuming you are, sorry for "outing" you, but I felt it necessary.

I tend to agree that the Wolves have a good idea who the Hunter is. Given that, is it not better that the innocents have that knowledge too? Since malkatoj has not dreamed of them, the Hunter becomes another known innocent (and someone who is definately not a Cobbler), narrowing down our list of suspects for the last Wolf.

If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her.The Hunter is in no danger tonight, since the Seer will be his or her target. That gives us a ratio of five known innocents to four unknowns tomorrow (since a double lynch now looks out of the question). The last Wolf would be foolish to target the Hunter the following night, because there is a one in three chance that the Hunter will kill them. And, if the Hunter were to target the wrong person, then that would leave us with four known innocents to two unknowns and almost certain victory (provided that we could avoid the Cobbler's machinations).

All in all, I think that it is best if the Hunter declares, if not now then certainly tomorrow.

On second thought I don't think the double lynching is the greatest idea and we should probably wait until the situation is a bit more desperate.Well, it's probably out of the question with your vote. But why don't you think it a good idea?

I still claim Formendacil is the cobbler and that he should be lynched tomorrow if we don't know who the wolf is.Eh? Kill someone that we know is not a Wolf, even though he may be the Cobbler, rather than kill someone who may actually turn out to be a Wolf? What kind of madness is this? Are you the Cobbler, perchance?

To answer SpM's question, yes I have dreamt of all those people, and no I have not dreamt of the hunter.Thanks, malka. That helps a lot. :)

Garin

02-12-2006, 10:39 AM

SpM says: It would be dangerous for a Wolf to cast suspicion, and so strongly, on Gil-Galad if he was a fellow Wolf. This would suggest to me that Gil is not a fellow Wolf.
Keep in mind that TGWBS actually voted for Naria so if he is a wolf, he is indeed bold.

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 10:43 AM

Keep in mind that TGWBS actually voted for Naria so if he is a wolf, he is indeed bold.True, but TGWBS correctly assessed that no one else was likely to vote for Naria that day. Gil-Galad, on the other hand, is almost always in danger of being lynched (even when he has no votes) as he is supicious by his very nature. I doubt that a Wolf would be keen to cast suspicion on Gil, if he was a fellow Wolf, simply because it would carry with it a good chance of actually getting Gil lynched.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 10:56 AM

I was just doing my own search of TGWBS' quotes of other players, but Sauce has already said much of what I was about to say. Here are my conclusions of TGWBS' posts.

I'm not suspicious of Glirdan at all, actually. TGWBS is casting way too much suspicion on Glirdan on page 4, and then there's this:

At the moment, I am most in favour of lynching Glirdan. He gives no reasoning for his lack of logic, and very little rational reasoning for casting suspicion on SpM, his odd feelings notwithstanding, of course.

The two others I'm closely watching at the moment are wayne and Gil. Of these two, I find Gil most worrying.

I'm not too worried of Gil either on the basis of TGWBS' sayings (see Sauce's post #327). I'm not sure whether these quotes would point Gil being innocent or quilty, though:

I'm thinking he [Gil] could be our cobbler, as are many others. So, while he is high on my list of potential enemies to the village, I am reluctant to lynch him.

Did not vote Gil Galad, Glirdan, Marcolie Lamen, wayne, Naria
...
I, for one, would be more than pleased to kill them off if they don't start talking.

I am confident that a wolf, perhaps two, abides amongst those who are silent or quiet: Gil-Galad, Marcolie, Glirdan, Form, Wayne and Naria

Would TGWBS be so bold as to campaign for lynching the quiet ones if there were two wolves on the list (Naria + Gil)?

It's actually Kath of whom I'm most worried about now. I was really suspicious of her earlier (see my post #105 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=444116&postcount=105)) and maybe that's why I find things TGWBS has said about her more unnerving than the things he had said of others, but anyway...

First of all, there were the things Sauce already mentioned. In addition, I found this:Unless she's [Kath] being incredibly bold, I don't think she's a wolf.

Besides, I haven't seen Kath answering my question if she cross-posted her vote for Abercrombie with Aiwendil although I asked it twice.

Edit: Cross-posting with those after post #329.

mormegil

02-12-2006, 11:29 AM

Garin

02-12-2006, 11:38 AM

Well I am working on a Sunday, a double-lynch doesn't seem to be happening.
If Malkatoj indeed turns out to be a seer and Guy is a wolf we will know that the following MIGHT be a wolf:
Garin
Gil
Glirdan
Kath
spawn
I have already cast my vote and can't do much at work, so I will try to spend time during the night giving a write-up of the unknowns. Chances are I will train my sights on those who suspect me, that is how I roll, knowing that I am a miserable Ordo.
The cobbler shows as an ordo to the seer, correct? I had assumptions coming into this game and was enlightened by Form that there is no cursed, should someone PM the Mod God and verify this?

Meneltarmacil

02-12-2006, 11:54 AM

*rises from the grave*

The Cobbler does in fact appear as an Ordinary Villager to the Seer.
And there is no Cursed.

*sinks back into the grave*

Glirdan

02-12-2006, 11:54 AM

Well SpM, you just blew my cover, but, I guess it's for the best of the village. I am indeed the Hunter and that is in fact why me and Cailin have not suspected each other. Now we're down to three unknown's and out of them, I still believe that Kath is the last Wolf. Unfortunately, I believe that the Wolves already knew this. What's really surprsing to me now is if they knew yesterDay that I was the Hunter, why did they not attack me.

I will now cast my vote for

++The-Guy-Who-Be-Wolf

May we lynch you in style you evil lupine.

As for me, I do not know if I will return. I will try but I do not know if I will be able to do it. As I said above, may we lynch him in style. Which also means make it terrible and evil.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 12:03 PM

SpM I don't think it a good idea at this stage because we are not desperate, the wolves are and unless we get a wolf one more innocent will be killed. With the cobbler still on the loose that could play into the wolves hands. Now that's a great segway into my theory of killing Formendacil tomorrow. I don't think it will happen nor do I suppose it's the wisest course of action. However, I do want to continue to assert that he seems cobblerish to me. I feel that if I let up on this he may be able to wreak havoc and ruin an almost guaranteed victory. You admit yourself that the cobbler is a wild card therefore I want my top suspect to know I am still watching him and he's not a 100% known innocent to me nor any others for that matter. While I believe Nilp and SpM to be innocent I can't be 100% sure they aren't the cobbler though I find it highly improbable.
Well, next Night's kill won't leave us any trail since even the most inexperienced whelp would go after the Seer. Tomorrow we'll have more unknowns than proved innocents left and one of them will be a wolf. We will have the Cobbler left, too. I understand your point, but I don't think that the odds are much better for finding the last wolf tomorrow than it is toDay unless Kath and Gil will actively join our conversations.

The votes are:

malkatoj -> TGWBS
Nilp -> TGWBS
Garin -> TGWBS
Formendacil -> TGWBS
TGWBS -> mormegil
Glirdan -> TGWBS

Six - edit: Five - votes left which means that no double lynching toDay. Okay.

++The Wolf Who Be Short

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 12:09 PM

Now that's a great segway into my theory of killing Formendacil tomorrow. I don't think it will happen nor do I suppose it's the wisest course of action. However, I do want to continue to assert that he seems cobblerish to me. I feel that if I let up on this he may be able to wreak havoc and ruin an almost guaranteed victory.I certainly agree that we should be alive to the fact that one of our known innocents might well be the Cobbler. I am dubious as to whether it is Formendacil, as he started out acting too darn Cobbleresque. I am concerned that the Cobbler has actually played a much more subtle game, hoping to avoid suspicion or Wolfish maw until the time comes when he or she can do most damage. That time is nearing, so we all need to be alert.

What concerned me about your post was the way that you suggested killing Formendacil, who we know is not a Wolf, if we cannot find a Wolf. The chances of locating a Wolf with any certainty tomorrow are low. But, by lynching one of the unknowns, we will at least be giving ourselves the chance of lynching the last Wolf - or possibly even the Cobbler. Lynching Formendacil tomorrow might rid us of the Cobbler (unlikely in my view), but carries with it no chance of killing a Wolf and much more chance of killing an ordinary innocent. Let's not go there. 'Tis a silly plan.

My own view is that, overnight, we should all review the entire proceedings, focussing on those who remain unknown quantites, what they have said and what the known Wolves have said about them. I have already done this, and it looks like spawn has too. Having done this, we should agree amongst ourselves tomorrow as far as we are able who, of the unknowns, we should lynch. That way, we minimise the possibility of Wolfish and Cobblerseque influence.

For now, I might as well cast my vote. TGWBS is a Wolf. We know that and, with five votes cast for him and five votes to come, he will die in any event. Everyone else who I would consider voting for still has a vote left, and so there is no point in me trying for a double lynch. Whatever happens, therefore, today's votes will tell us nothing. So I might as well vote for:

++ THE GUY WHO BE SHORT and fiendish.

If Malkatoj indeed turns out to be a seer and Guy is a wolf ...Why do you still think there is any doubt here? TGWBS has admitted it.

The only other possibility is that malkatoj is a Wolf and TGWBS is the Cobbler. In the highly unlikely event that this is the case, we lynch malkatoj tomorrow.

The cobbler shows as an ordo to the seer, correct?Yes. Any one of our known innocents could be the Cobbler.

Edit: Cross-posted with Modertarmacil, Glirdan and dancing spawn.

Gil-Galad

02-12-2006, 12:20 PM

sorry for me barely being on... but i read over everyone else and i would probably have to go for TGWBS, but i have a feeling he might be innocent... though my vote probably won't do much

++Spawn

i got mixed feelings...

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 12:26 PM

Well SpM, you just blew my cover, but, I guess it's for the best of the village.Sorry, but I did think that it was for the best. I thought that it was obvious, once Cailin declared herself. That's why I no longer suspected you. I am pretty sure that TGWBS would have worked it out too (he was the only other person, in my view, that could have been the Hunter, based upon how things had gone with Cailin). I wondered whether the Wolves might have gone for you instead of Cailin on Night 4 on the basis that I was your most likely target at that stage. They could have taken down two innocents in one blow, although it would have given Cailin one more day.

Assuming that malkatoj dies tonight, we will at least have one trusted villager, which will be useful if we decide to go for a double lynch. One word of caution - choose your nightly targets carefully, and do not necessarily target those that you have identified as your suspects during the day. That doesn't mean don't do it, but we want to keep the Wolf guessing as to who your target may be so that they do not see you as a safe kill.

Now we're down to three unknown's ...

Tomorrow we'll have more unknowns than proved innocents left ...No and no. There seems to be a bit of confusion as to who is innocent, who is unknown etc, so this is to clarify:

Today

Seer: malkatoj

Hunter: Glirdan

Wolf: The guy who be short

Known not to be Wolves, but may be the Cobbler:
The Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund

Unknown:
Dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Gil-Galad

Tomorrow (assuming that malkatoj is killed tonight)

Hunter: Glirdan

Known not to be Wolves, but may be the Cobbler:
The Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund

Unknown:
Dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Gil-Galad

That's five innocents (four of whom are possible Cobblers) and four unknowns.

Capiche?

The Saucepan Man

02-12-2006, 12:28 PM

Well, Gil's not doing himself any favours.

Silly vote if he is a Wolf, but you never know with Gil ...!!

Garin

02-12-2006, 12:29 PM

Posted by SpM:Why do you still think there is any doubt here? TGWBS has admitted it.
You and myself trusted him as innocent. I made my vote already, so it is obvious that I believe Malkatoj, I am simply covering my behind in case we are wrong.
Posted by Gil:sorry for me barely being on... but i read over everyone else and i would probably have to go for TGWBS, but i have a feeling he might be innocent... though my vote probably won't do much
Thanks for coming in and voting but this will not look good during the next day.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-12-2006, 12:48 PM

Capiche? Si.

You see, I wrote that before I saw Glirdan's post where he admitted that he's the Hunter and voted. I edited his vote in my post, but forgot the other part.

++Spawn I feel special. :D

Garin

02-12-2006, 12:48 PM

My posts at work have been miserable as I look at them, I will be silent for the rest of the day.

malkatoj

02-12-2006, 12:49 PM

Mormegil: Malka, out of curiousity which order were the dreamt?

NIGHT 1: Formendacil, as determined by the roll of a 20-sided die
NIGHT 2: Mormegil, as chosen from a group of three who seemed worth dreaming of and chosen by a random number generator that my friend programmed
NIGHT 3: Nilp, because I couldn't stand not knowing
NIGHT 4: Saucepan Man, because I was about ready to determine that if he wasn't a wolf I would eat my pants...and that wouldn't taste good...luckily I dreamt of him before I got to the pants-eating point (notice he disappeared off my suspicious list and onto my innocent list)
NIGHT 5: TGWBS because I was suspicious of him to begin with, and his unfounded suspicion and accusation of Mormegil (whom I knew to be innocent) was getting to me.

So on the off chance that I'm not killed toNight, I'd like to know whom you lot want me to dream of, though I have a feeling that if you choose the wolf it'll solidify their wanting to kill me more than anything else. So don't tell me, and I'll choose from the unknowns the one whom I think would be most wolfishly inclined. So basically, ignore this paragraph.

Gil's vote bothers me. I still think he's the cobbler. I'm pretty sure the final wolf will vote TGWBS because it'd be dumb not to--any other votes will draw attention when there's a known wolf. Then again, he might be doing this to make us *think* he's not a wolf because it'd be too dumb for a wolf to do, when really he's a wolf and pulling a double-bluff. Hm.

Gil-Galad

02-12-2006, 12:53 PM

Well, Gil's not doing himself any favours.

Silly vote if he is a Wolf, but you never know with Gil ...!!

well its hard for me, because if i voted for TGWBS, and he turned out to be innocent, then everyone who voted for him will be examined, but if he is a wolf and since i voted for someone else, i would examined as being a wolf so its hard...

so far my feelings are that Saucey, Guy and myself are not wolves, though i have been mistaken before...

i think the seer should dream of me to prove that i'm innocent, i don't want to be cannon-fodder for the town... though the shape is interesting, i don't enjoy being mush.

Formendacil

02-12-2006, 01:34 PM

Thou callest ME a Cobbler, good Morm? I am heavily inclined to think YOU the Cobbler. And this is not petty retaliation or simple-minded vengeance, but a genuince perplexity at the different feeling I'm getting from you. You are NOT the usual, aggressive, vaguely annoying Morm of old- the Innocent Morm of old. You are, in fact, suspiciously quiet- for you- and you are flying under the radar a lot more than usual.

Kill me if you like, good village, but take Morm down with me. He deserves it.

Glirdan

02-12-2006, 01:37 PM

I'd like to know whom you lot want me to dream of

I'm agreeing with this. I would like to know any idea's on whom I should go after. I will NOT say whom I will go after, I will merely choose and you will find out later on.

As for whom Malka should dream of, I believe that it should be either Kath or Gil; the two that have attracted the most suspicion as of late.

I must leave now for the rest of the Day. I will come back later on and check up, but not before the Day is over.

Oh, and Wolfy boy, may you rot in the halls of Mandos or wherever you're going. Good bye you scum!! Cailin's efforts were not completely in vain!!!

Good day all!!

the guy who be short

02-12-2006, 02:04 PM

TGWBS because I was suspicious of him to begin with, and his unfounded suspicion and accusation of Mormegil (whom I knew to be innocent) was getting to me.Unfounded? My dear girl, just because I'm a wolf, doesn't mean you can discredit me so! Do you know how carefully I planned that case against morm? I almost convinced myself he was a wolf...

Kill me if you like, good village, but take Morm down with me. He deserves it.
Thank you. See? I must make sense.

So on the off chance that I'm not killed toNight, I'd like to know whom you lot want me to dream ofMalka, dear, the chance of you being alive tomorrow is less than the chance of me being alive tomorrow.

I think TGWBS' "you-know-who" talk was just something he said to spite us. However, if the Hunter is among the known innocents, I don't see why s/he should declare him/herself.Well, you-know-who is actually a you-know-what but their thingy isn't quite as you-know-which-adjective as the other thing I'm not allowed to mention, wink wink.

Unfortunately, I believe that the Wolves already knew this. What's really surprsing to me now is if they knew yesterDay that I was the Hunter, why did they not attack me.And kill SpM? Are you mad!

Meneltarmacil

02-12-2006, 02:42 PM

I will not be here at the deadline but should be back about 45 minutes later. Please stop posting by then. I've asked Farael to remind you then, but he may not be able to. I shall post the death of TGWBS once I have returned.

the guy who be short

02-12-2006, 03:07 PM

Well, villagers, this is my last farewell.

I hope you all die. :D And expect my death to be avenged most terribly.

mormegil

02-12-2006, 03:26 PM

31 now 32 posts are suspiciously quiet? This does seem vindictive of you. I agree with SpM that I don't think you should by lynched yesterday but I do want to make the point that I am NOT convinced of you entire innocence. I am not being agressive? I admit I slowed down after my major folly of lynching Cailin.

TGWBS I admit it was a good arguement against me and I did believe you innocent but I think your mistake was your continued attack. If you want my opinion of it that is.

Where is Kath?

Garin

02-12-2006, 03:34 PM

Morm, stop squabbling. Even if you are the cobbler you won't be taking any lives at night, the bickering will now turn to the G-boys and Kath and Spawn. I bid a farewell to Malkatoj and The Guy. If it wasn't for her sacrifice our insane village would've lynched another innoncent, I am sure.

Garin

02-12-2006, 03:52 PM

Where is Kath?
I agree. If she comes out loud tomorrow it will be rather telling. She has been more quiet than I have ever seen her.

Farael

02-12-2006, 03:59 PM

Alright!!! If I'm not mistaken the time is up. Meneltarmacil should give you guys your little story in a few minutes. Good luck you all.

Glirdan

02-12-2006, 04:53 PM

I thought the Day was supposed to be over? Hello? Mod Gods??

While we're waiting, I'd like to adress one thing:

originally posted by Garin
Morm, stop squabbling. Even if you are the cobbler you won't be taking any lives at night, the bickering will now turn to the G-boys and Kath and Spawn. I bid a farewell to Malkatoj and The Guy. If it wasn't for her sacrifice our insane village would've lynched another innoncent, I am sure.

I must ask you want do you mean by the G-Boys? I'm now innocent. If you have not been following everything, here's something to make it plain and clear to you: I AM THE HUNTER! You on the other hand are not cleared. So, really, the bickering will turn to you and Gil, not myself and Gil if that's what you were talking about.

Now, good Night friends.

Meneltarmacil

02-12-2006, 05:07 PM

Thanks, Farael.

EDIT: I'm sorry about it being late. I did the best I could and told Farael to remind you of the times, etc. And I'm glad to see that he did so. Again, I apologize for the lateness.

The villagers cornered the guy who be short in his house by the sea where he kept his fishing gear and sold the catch of the day.

"You're coming with us, Wolf!" shouted malkatoj. "I know what you are."

"Heh heh," the guy responded, grinning. He then started to change shape. Fangs grew in his mouth as fur sprouted all over him. He grew a snout, claws, and a tail as well.

"Just try and lynch me! Come on!" the guy who be a wolf growled at the villagers. Some of them stepped back, but mormegil, Formendacil, and The Saucepan Man stood their ground. They started throwing various objects at him, including daggers, history books, and saucepans.

After a lot of clanging, banging, and other such noises The guy who be short was now the wolf who be lynched.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
malkatoj- Retired Miracle Man (who is not really a man)
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street
Formendacil- Village historian
Kath- Local investigator into the paranormal

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5

Wolves: 1
Villagers: 9

It is now Night 6. Seer and Wolf, please send me your names.

EDIT: Hunter too. Sorry I forgot to mention you :(

Meneltarmacil

02-13-2006, 04:02 PM

KA-BOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

The sound woke everybody up in the early hours of the morning. They rushed to investigate the noise.

The villagers soon found what was left of malkatoj’s house aflame. Moving inside, they passed what was left of several strange miracle devices (which according to Gil-Galad were originally in somekindofhedral shapes) that had apparently all been detonated at once. The entire room was in disarray.

At the back of the house lay the remains of malkatoj herself, who had been holding a strange crystal-glass contraption along with a book titled “Interpreting Visions: What every Seer Must Know.” Malka had indeed been the village Seer.

“Oh, my,” Kath remarked. “This is certainly a tragedy.”

“I guess there’s only one thing we can do for her now,” said Garin.

Seeing the look in his eye, Nilpaurion Felagund agreed. “It’s only fair,” he replied.

The villagers began searching the house for loose change.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street
Formendacil- Village historian
Kath- Local investigator into the paranormal

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5
malkatoj (Seer): Blown up by wolf on Night 6

Wolves: 1
Villagers: 8

It is now Day 6. Villagers may commence posting.

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 05:03 PM

We owe a great debt to malkatoj, who gave her life to save this village. Let us repay her by finishing the job for her.

Day 5 voting? Well it's traditional for me to give it, I suppose, even though it won't tell us much.

1. Malkatoj for TGWBS (TGWBS-1)
2. Nilpaurion for TGWBS (TGWBS-2)
3. Garin for TGWBS (TGWBS-3)
4. Formendacil for TGWBS (TGWBS-4)
5. TGWBS for mormegil (TGWBS-4, mormegil-1)
6. Mormegil for TGWBS (TGWBS-5, mormegil-1)
7. Glirdan for TGWBS (TGWBS-6, mormegil-1)
8. Dancing spawn for TGWBS (TGWBS-7, mormegil-1)
9. SpM for TGWBS (TGWBS-8, mormegil-1)
10. Gil-Galad for dancing spawn (TGWBS-8, mormegil-1, dancing spawn-1)

Did not vote: Kath

The only real point of discussion is Gil's vote, but my view on that is that it could go either way. He is either attempting a clever bluff, or he really didn't pay attention to what was happening yesterday. Gil is capable of either. Kath's non-vote (and non-appearance yesterday) doesn't tell us anything, as she warned beforehand that she would be out of town for the day (see the admin thread).

Reminder of what we know (Gil, take note ;) ):

Hunter: Glirdan

Known not to be Wolves, but may be the Cobbler:
The Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund

Unknown:
Dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Gil-Galad

If we were to make random choices, we would have a 1 in 4 chance of finding the Wolf today, a 1 in 3 chance tomorrow and a 50:50 chance the day after that. Only, by that time, there might well be two innocents facing a Wolf and a Cobbler. Village loses. And I am not sure that we have a much better chance if we use what has been said and done so far to guide us. Let's be honest. The remaining Wolf could be any one of the unknowns. We can use the record, to an extent. But I think that reasonable cases could be made for, and against, each one of them. Add to that a Cobbler and a Wolf desperately trying to lead us in astray and things are rather more desperate than Senor mormegil suggested yesterday.

So, I suggest that we try to organise a double lynching today and, if necessary, another one tomorrow. We then give ourselves (all else being equal) a 50:50 chance of finding a Wolf today. And, even if we are wrong, we have a 100% chance of killing the Wolf tomorrow. Assuming that we can avoid the tricksiness of the Cobbler and the remaining Wolf, that is. So we need to be careful in our organisation.

What say you all?

Glirdan

02-13-2006, 05:13 PM

Well, even though Malka's death is tragic (our poor, beloved Seer is gone), we all did make some extra cash ( :rolleyes: ).

As for SpM's suggested double lynching plan, I'm all for it because it then gives me a 50:50 chance of finding the Wolf if we don't get him/her toDay. As he said, all are equally suspicious, yet I find that Kath and Gil are probably the two we really ought to look at toDay. Those two have been in suspcion but not enough to cause to much trouble, which would complete (I believe) Marcolie's plan: quiet:Naria; loud:TGWBS and in between: Gil or Kath. However, that does not mean we need to wholly forget Garin and Spawn. I believe that Garin is either being a very smart Wolf by being extremely loud or just a very innocent villager. Spawn, on the other had, has flown under everyone's radar and hasn't attracted much suspicion until yesterDay. So, what do we do?

Gil-Galad

02-13-2006, 05:21 PM

its probably going to be a double-lynch between me and Kath, i'm surprised i've lasted this far... my onl fault was that i didn't read Malka's post... i made an error on my part though

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 05:41 PM

So, what do we do?I suggest we wait and see how many agree with the double lynch plan. It needs pretty much unanimous consent (or at least an overwhelming majority) to succeed. Then we can work out who we should go for today out of the four unkowns. I have my own views, but I will not air them until all (or almost all) have said whether they are in favour of a double lynch and we have agreed, at least in outline terms, how we will do it.

I might add, Glirdan, that if we are to go for the double lynch, you will have the key role. As the only person we can fully trust, we will need you to hold your vote to the very end to ensure no Wolf/Cobbler chicanery (or to unilaterally lynch whoever might be the cause of such chicanery).

If anyone isn't going to be able to vote reasonably early today, they should say so.

my onl fault was that i didn't read Malka's post...Just how much did you read?

Gil-Galad

02-13-2006, 05:43 PM

well apaprently Malka was seer... i wasn't too sure on who she dreamed of... when i re read after voting, i saw that guy was voted wolf and you were innocent...

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 05:49 PM

Of course, time zones might create a problem. Some may have to vote before all have arrived and said whether they agree with the plan. That makes things difficult. But it can still work.

My idea is as follows:

Two known innocents and two unknowns vote for one candidate.

The other two known innocents and the other two unknowns vote for the other candidate.

Glirdan holds his vote to the end and, if all goes according to plan, doesn't vote. If anyone hasn't voted by that stage, he uses his discretion to ensure the best possible result. Would that be feasible for you Glirdan?

Any thoughts? Is there any better way of doing it?

Glirdan

02-13-2006, 05:50 PM

Saucy, I can not hold my vote until the very end. I will not have a chance to come back on. I might not be able to vote at all. I will try my best to vote, but (due to time zone restrictions, school, band and parents) I may not be able to. So, if I cast my vote, it will be for one of the two that I voiced major suspicion of earlier (Gil or Kath).

Edit- Cross posted with Saucy.

In answer, that seems like a fine plan because then, you might not need my vote unless it comes to a worst case scenario.

Here's a side-note about Form. If he tries to make us not double lynch, it's safe to say he's the Cobbler. I also suggest that we should wait for him to vote if possible.

Gil-Galad

02-13-2006, 05:50 PM

yeah i probably won't be able to get on, so i'm voting now

++Kath

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 06:05 PM

Well, my plan is clearly not going to work. :rolleyes:

I guess that we shall just have to see where we are towards the close of the day tomorrow. I shall try to hold my vote until near the end of the day, but I can't guarantee anything. And I guess you can't trust me 100% either.

OK, so who do I think we should lynch today? I stand by what I said towards the end of the day yesterday concerning the four unknowns (so go back and read my contributions here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=445508&postcount=318) and here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=445528&postcount=327) if you want to know).

The only thing that I would add is I think it more likely that Gil-Galad didn't bother to read much of what had been said before he voted yesterday, rather than his vote being some elaborate double-bluff. As such, I am inclined to view him, for now at least, as innocent (although still a possible Cobbler). If he is a Wolf, he deserves to win for being so convincingly naive ... :D

I also have a serious nagging doubt about spawn. While TGWBS went out of his way to put the case for Kath's innocence, he said very little about spawn. He only really mentioned her among groups of other people, for example when he expressed the view that none of those who voted for Abercrombie were likely to be Wolves. Now, we all know TGWBS to be a subtle and crafty Wolf. I tend to think that this would be more his style when trying to clear a fellow Wolf.

Plus the fact that spawn has never really attracted serious supicion still concerns me. We have been notably bad at catching Wolves in this village. We would probably never have suspected TGWBS had it not been for malkatoj. I can well imagine that the other Wolf has been equally as slippery. And dancing spawn is more than capable of carrying it off.

As matters stand, I would be inclined to lynch spawn and Kath.

Glirdan

02-13-2006, 06:18 PM

And I guess you can't trust me 100% either.

On the contrary my friend. I now trust you completely. I'm quite sorry for attacking you so ferociously at the beginning, but, that's what this is all about, right?

And I must also agree with you on the matter of Gil. I don't think that two Wolves would have been so quiet.

Now I must also say that Spawn and Kath are both unnerving me. They post enough, yet just barely enough to stay out of suspicion. I believe, just as you Saucy, that we should concentrate on these two. Garin is probably, as he ha been saying for quite some time now, just been framed by the Wolves. Gil is probably either the Cobbler or just a very confused villager.

So, what do we do from here?

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-13-2006, 06:21 PM

I rather doubt you are the Cobbler, Sauce. So I think the last vote can be yours--if you can do a holding pattern 'til the end of the DAY, that is.

And yes, that means I agree with the double-lynch. I mean, crikey, I was the one who first suggested it!

So, is it Kath and spawn, then? I trust spawn to be innocent, if that helps.

Garin looks innocent to me, but I'm not very sure. Gil-galad is very confusing, and has succeeded in avoiding serious suspicion so far. Since most of us thought that the Werewolves's plan is to have the loudmouths kill off each other, I think he's a perfect Werewolf.

Glirdan, you really are the Hunter? I knew I still got it. :D

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-13-2006, 06:33 PM

I just noticed that I am persistent in defending spawn. Does that make me the Cobbler? ;)

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 06:55 PM

So, what do we do from here?Can you hold your vote until later in the day? That would be the best thing. If not, I suggest that you vote for spawn, to give Kath and spawn one vote each.

I rather doubt you are the Cobbler, Sauce.The feeling is mutual, my dear fellow.

I just noticed that I am persistent in defending spawn. Does that make me the Cobbler?So no, it doesn't. But do you have any particular reason (other than personal ;) ) for believing spawn to be innocent? If so, please declare it as, while I am not convinced that she is a Wolf (I am not convinced about anyone), she is high in my suspicions at the moment, for the reasons that I have given.

Glirdan

02-13-2006, 07:07 PM

Can you hold your vote until later in the day? That would be the best thing. If not, I suggest that you vote for spawn, to give Kath and spawn one vote each.

I will try and hold off, but I may have to vote very soon. Don't worry though, I will take your advice and vote for spawn. I blieve that this plan of yours will actually work out my firend. I believe it will. ;)

Nilp, I have not even come close to suspecting you. If anything, you've confused me this entire time. However, if anyone is the Cobbler, I don't think it's you. If it's anyone, I think it would be Form or Gil.

Now, I really wish someone else would say something other than us three. It's really unnerving me even though five of us are proven innocent.

mormegil

02-13-2006, 07:13 PM

Sorry I've been very busy today. For what it's worth the double lynching idea makes sense to me and I think I will be able to vote late as it is a time that works fairly well for me. For my own opinion Kath is one that should go and possibly Gil. I just don't feel good about him and his vote yesterday, while explained, still seems odd enough.

mormegil

02-13-2006, 07:20 PM

Sorry for the double but I just need to express that I'd still like to kill Form out of principle but I realize this is foolish and we shouldn't but I still want to. ;) :p

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Morm, what are your thoughts generally on the four unknowns? I would like to hear your views on each of them, based on what has gone before, if you have the time. Why Kath? Do you think that Gil was bluffing? If not, why don't you feel good about him? What about spawn? Garin?

Sorry if it seems like I'm pressing you, but the more we share our opinions today the better chance we have of actually bagging a Wolf, rather than two innocents. So I would like to hear everyone's views on these matters if possible.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-13-2006, 07:39 PM

But do you have any particular reason (other than personal ;) ) for believing spawn to be innocent? If so, please declare it . . . (SpM)Because she wouldn't lie to me. ;) (I hope . . . )

Enedwaith, about the Cobbler, if he's among the innocent, we don't care. If he somehow ends up in revealing himself, he's toast, we ignore him, but we don't have to kill him. If he or she is among the unknowns, he or she will die enedwaith, so why worry?

Yeah, the Cobbler can screw the voting up. So can the last Werewolf. But I think if they have the gall to do that toDAY, then woohoo! They're dead tomorrow!

Hey, vy ze vay, if Kath is the last Werewolf, how come we're getting kills? I mean, she's off in Iceland since the 10th, right?

The Saucepan Man

02-13-2006, 07:43 PM

Because she wouldn't lie to me.Now surely you know her better than that ... :p :D

Am I to take it that this is your only reason for not suspecting spawn?

Hey, vy ze vay, if Kath is the last Werewolf, how come we're getting kills? I mean, she's off in Iceland since the 10th, right?Good point, but she only said that she would be away for Day 5. And, even if she is away, I am sure that (if she is a Wolf) there are ways and means.

Glirdan

02-13-2006, 08:07 PM

Well, I can't hold off any longer. I will cast my vote and it shall be for

++Spawn

Good luck my fellow friends. If neither of them end up being a Wolf, I will try my best to find the last on, even thought he/she'd be pretty stupid to do so. Good Day!!

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-13-2006, 08:08 PM

I give up.

I'll vote for whoever you want me to vote. Even if it's *gulp* spawn.

So, tell me who I'll vote for. I'll be back in a few hours.

Vzv, Sauce, here is my comprehensive theory of her innocence. It works only for me, I think.

There are three possibilities for spawn

1. She's a Werewolf, and we get her DAY 1.
2. She's a Werewolf, and we don't get her DAY 1. She wins.
3. She's innocent, gets mistaken for a Seer, and killed by Werewolves NIGHT 4 or NIGHT 5.

Since she didn't fall under any of the given categories, I'm confused.

Good point, but she only said that she would be away for Day 5. And, even if she is away, I am sure that (if she is a Wolf) there are ways and means. (SpM)Well, she hasn't been posting of late. :p And she told me in a PM that she'll be gone for more than a day.

Gil-galad is the one, I tells ye!

Garin

02-13-2006, 08:13 PM

What a day I had and not one truffle. I think, I'll go into the bacon business thanks to these useless pigs.
I have to agree with Saucepan's math and go for the double lynching, It is normally something I oppose but this is a desparate time for the village, I am leaning Kath or maybe Gil or Spawn. Garin seems pretty cool. Without everone's cooperation this thing could backfire.
Obviously.
I'll just try to follow someone's lead.
Hey Nilp is Kath really not around, or was that sarcasm?

EDIT: I didn't like a comma

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-13-2006, 08:24 PM

She really is gone. If I remember anything, she said she'll be back before her birthday (the 16th, if you would like to know--greet her, okay?)

Must go, French class is already starting! I'm late, I'm late!

Garin

02-13-2006, 08:35 PM

Bon voyage, Nilp, and I must have cross-posted like mad because I once again got distracted by something else. You pretty much answered that already in a previous post.

Look! that dog has a fluffy tail!

Where was I? Why wouldn't Kath excuse herself from the game if she was not going to a viable member of the village for a prolonged period? That is more of a rhetorical question and not directed at Nilp.

mormegil

02-13-2006, 08:41 PM

SpM, in answer to your questions.

1. Kath has been moderately suspicious and I thought she may have been the Hunter because of the way she treated Cailin. She defended her correct? I know TGWBS did. She wasn't around yesterday, though it seems that was known and I must admit that was on of the bigger reasons I suspected her though since we already have a vote for her it might make sense to continue.

2. Gil is...well Gil and I don't ever fully understand him. He may be trying a bluff but we won't know until he's gone. Plus we're more likely to get actual incriminating evidence from Spawn or Garin

Between Garin and Spawn I'm at a bit of a toss up so I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Formendacil

02-13-2006, 09:32 PM

Interesting day...

Here I am, after a hard (well, for a lazy guy like me...) day's work, and I'm catching up on all of the Day's events... I'd almost like to go for the Double-Lynch. Morm and me! What do you say?

Oh, yeah... I don't want to die, and we're both on the "Definitely Not Werewolves" list, so even if we're Shirriff Cobblers, we don't get to die...

So, of those who ARE on the "Not Definitely Not Werewolves" list we have:

Spawn,
Kath,
Garin,
Gil-Galad

Of these four, I'm tempted to cross Garin off right away. I'd also like to cross Kath off. I don't know why. Somehow, they just seem.... I don't know... not into this game deeply enough....

Spawn definitely has the right profile for it. Relatively noisy, not intrusively so, lots of good analysis, seemingly helpful. We know she's smart enough for it. We know she's got the experience. The only question is: is she?

And... strange though it seems to be for me to say it, I have to wonder if Gil-galad might not be the Werewolf. Time and time again, villages lynch him because he's confusing, or ignore him because he's confusing, and time and time again he's innocent. What if this is the time when he actually is a Werewolf- and we were all too confident in the "Gil could never be a Werewolf" attitude to think it...

All in all, I think Spawn the best candidate for today, but forgive me! I cannot shake the idea of Gil as the dark horse candidate we've all been ignoring.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-14-2006, 12:09 AM

Votes:

Kath - 1 (Gil-galad)
spawn - 1 (Glirdan)

I will not vote for spawn toDAY. So, sorry, Kath

++Kath

Garin

02-14-2006, 12:50 AM

I still think the double-lynch is a good idea but I need to make a vote sooner than later. I am surprised at Mormegil's comments but I can understand the extra stress as master smith to all of those bothersome apprentices. I will likely follow Sauce's lead but I don't want to make the clinching vote due to my status. One of us four is a wolf...
Spawn's posts have been concise but well-thought. Mostly non-incriminating, but that in itself could be incriminating.
Gil hasn't said much except the occassional poking in for a couple sentences and a quick vote. He seems purposely mysterious. Or maybe just apathetic because he is an ordo?
Kath- Well, if she is not participating she best be removed because she offers the village nothing. She will likely get my vote, but right now I want to want to wait. This might be my day's lengthiest passage. For I must truffle hunt in the morn' (My time) and will have little time to say much and should probably be sleeping already. I still think the double lynch is a good idea but if we have to lose someone it should be the non-participant.
Garin- Needs to start working-out again because he is letting himself go to pot.
Form- Mormegil has it out for him and I think the fact that Form hasn't attacked me is making Mormy suspect me. Well, this is too political for me.
I only mention Form because he has been brought up as a vote.
If I survive the day I promise we will feast on my fattest pig. Sorry, there's no truffle gravy but it seems this land is cursed.
Perhaps, you noticed.

Formendacil

02-14-2006, 01:20 AM

Form- Mormegil has it out for him and I think the fact that Form hasn't attacked me is making Mormy suspect me. Well, this is too political for me.
I only mention Form because he has been brought up as a vote.
If I survive the day I promise we will feast on my fattest pig. Sorry, there's no truffle gravy but it seems this land is cursed.
Perhaps, you noticed.

Dear me, how totally uncivil I have been... not suspecting you? Really, Garin, that is most inconsiderate of me...

How's this:

You are a filthy pig-farmer by occupation, and you're a dirty Werewolf by night. I wouldn't be surprised if those pigs of yours have had a fine feast on your victims at night! Watch out for Mad Pig Disease, if they have. Seriously, you are so evil, Sauron himself looks like Neville Longbottom.

That better?

Wouldn't want you to feel like I was no suspecting you...

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 01:43 AM

Now surely you know her better than that ... :p :D Outrageous! ( ;) ) But Nilp is right, I wouldn't lie to him.

Well, well, according to Sauce, I've been acting like a good innocent should and that's why I'm now suspected to be a wolf? I guess it makes as much sense as anything here on the last Days. Besides, I myself have been wrong with my accusations so many times that I can't really blame you who think that I'm a wolf.

Anyway, I think a double lynching is a good idea. I'm just a bit frustrated to know that the other one (i.e. me) will be innocent. I'm inclined to agree with mormegil here (what a surprise...) that we should lynch Kath and Gil toDay.

It would be still possible to do that even though I already have one vote, but whatever you decide, I vote accordingly.

So, is it already agreed that I'm a goner, or shall I go back to do more research about other unknowns?

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 05:27 AM

Current votes:

Kath - 2 (Gil and Nilp)
Spawn - 1 (Glirdan)

Votes to come - 6 (SpM, Formendacil, mormegil, spawn, Garin, Kath).

But Nilp is right, I wouldn't lie to him.It is, as you know, in the nature of a Wolf to lie to those who are innocent. And that includes telling us that you would not lie to Nilp ...

As I am sure you will understand, spawn, I cannot necessarily accept your statement at face value.

So, is it already agreed that I'm a goner, or shall I go back to do more research about other unknowns?No, it is not a foregone conclusion as far as I am concerned. As I said, I would like to hear more thoughts from everyone on the unknowns.

Incidentally, you may rest assured that I personally probably have as much at stake as you do here. If we choose wrongly, the Wolf will kill again. He or she will not go for Glirdan but rather, I suspect, for me.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 05:55 AM

Isn't it silent here? Stupid time zones...

I went through all TGWBS' posts, but couldn't find anything that would have pointed at someone being more suspicious than another - except maybe his post #214:
Innocents:

Nilp
TGWBS
Glirdan
Kath
Saucepan ManWhile I support the majority of those, Cailin, I would like to ask why you consider Glirdan to be innocent, taking into account the points I have made against him earlier today.

For myself, I see the werewolves as mormegil, Glirdan, and either Garin or a quiet villager such as wayne, Gil or Marco. But then again, you can expound that in so many ways that I doubt it's very helpful after all. Might even make me look guilty. :confused:

Oh, and to clarify my last post:
Well, well, according to Sauce, I've been acting like a good innocent should and that's why I'm now suspected to be a wolf?That's what Sauce said yesterday (#318), but toDay at least Formendacil and Garin seem to have been thinking along those lines. Just wanted to point out that my last post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

Now I must also say that Spawn and Kath are both unnerving me. They post enough, yet just barely enough to stay out of suspicion. Now, I must admit that I don't quite understand the way you compare my and Kath's posting records.

Here's the post count of those alive:

The Saucepan Man 54
Garin 45
mormegil 35
Glirdan 32
dancing spawn of ungoliant 24
Nilpaurion Felagund 23
Formendacil 16
Gil-Galad 12
Kath 9

Besides, the amount of posts itself doesn't make someone look guilty or innocent, I think, but the contents of the posts.

As I am sure you will understand, spawn, I cannot necessarily accept your statement at face value. Of course you can't. It's okay. :)

mormegil

02-14-2006, 08:57 AM

So SpM have you come up with our official plan yet?

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 09:31 AM

1. She's a Werewolf, and we get her DAY 1.
2. She's a Werewolf, and we don't get her DAY 1. She wins.
3. She's innocent, gets mistaken for a Seer, and killed by Werewolves NIGHT 4 or NIGHT 5.
4. She's innocent and lasts till the end whether it is the villagers or wolves who win. What happened to your research? :p :)

*sigh* It would be so much nicer if the last wolf could just reveal him/herself. It would save us from a lot of trouble, really, but I guess that ain't going to happen. Therefore, I might just continue talking to myself since everybody else seems to be on some inconvenient time zone.

Sorry, I don't have time to analyse Gil today. Did he really lack the time to do an analysis or didn't he want to because it would have looked too bad for Gil? I don't know if I should be suspicious of him or not, although...
well apaprently Malka was seer... i wasn't too sure on who she dreamed of......I'd like to lynch him just for this. :D

I knew we should have gone for malka... Kill her tonight, will you, fellow wolfy? Wolfy? Whom would TGWBS call wolfy? Is that more masculine or feminine word? Yes, I'm getting paranoid here, but it's so quiet.

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 09:54 AM

So SpM have you come up with our official plan yet?Sorry, but my legal duties are taking up rather a lot of my time today. I should have more time in 2 hours or so.

I have been looking back on the events of the past few Days (again :rolleyes: ), and all I have time to say for now is that dancing spawn does come across very much as innocent. That is one of the reasons for my concern about her - but really. If she is a Wolf, she has been doing a fantastic job of hiding it. I am beginning to doubt my earlier assessment of her. And my initial concerns about Garin are beginning to re-establish themselves. Just on the basis of some of the things that he has said. If he is a Wolf, he has been taking risks. But, who knows? Anyone else care to take a look at him?

One thing is for sure. We do need to make some decisions. Since you all seem to be trusting me (which will be the death of me tonight :rolleyes: ), I think that everyone but me should vote no later than half an hour before the deadline, allowing me to cast the final vote (if needed). Anyone who does not do that will look very suspicious in my eyes.

Oh and, for what it's worth, I am pretty certain now that you are the Cobbler, morm. Do you know who your ally is?

Garin

02-14-2006, 11:00 AM

Posted by Form: You are a filthy pig-farmer by occupation, and you're a dirty Werewolf by night.
Yes, thank you, um, that is much better Form, I guess. But, I might be filthy but I am neither a pig farmer nor wolf. The pigs sniff out truffles.
And my initial concerns about Garin are beginning to re-establish themselves. Just on the basis of some of the things that he has said.
I understand you are pressed for time Sauce but I wish you had expounded. I also fail to see how Spawn seems innocent.

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 11:27 AM

... but, in the meantime ...

I also fail to see how Spawn seems innocent.Perhaps you could expund on this. As far as I can see, all that you have said on this subject today is:

Spawn's posts have been concise but well-thought. Mostly non-incriminating, but that in itself could be incriminating.

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 12:53 PM

Well, it's really buzzing around here, isn't it? :rolleyes:

I have reviewed the thread once more, and I am afraid that it has got me little further. Any one of the four unknowns could be a Wolf. But here is where I am.

I, personally, am discounting Gil-Galad. He has acted how I would expect him to act. And I put his recent behaviour down to not paying attention, rather than a bluff. TGWBS frequently mentioned him as being a possible Wolf, often in the same breath as he mentioned Naria (the quiet ones together). I don't think that he would have commented about both of his compadres in this way so frequently. Finally, I just don't think that two Wolves out of three would have voted so infrequently. If Gil is a Wolf, hats off to him (and his fellows).

I could go either way with Kath. I have found little more to go on than I set out earlier. However, I still think that she should be one of our lynch candidates today. She is currently contributing nothing. She already has two votes. And there are reasonable grounds on which to consider her guilty.

I also fail to see how Spawn seems innocent.My suspicions of dancing spawn are based almost entirely on the little that TGWBS said about her and the fact that she has avoided suspicion throughout much of our ordeal. But there is another good explanation for that. I have been through everything that she has said and done and found nothing in it (other than her voting record, which is similar to that of Garin and also my own) that seems Wolfish. On the contrary, everything that she has said, I would expect an ordinary, innocent villager to say. I wonder if, in suspecting her, I am simply guilty of over-analysis?

I understand you are pressed for time Sauce but I wish you had expounded.I will now. First off, my inclination to think Garin innocent is based almost entirely on the fact that he looks so suspicious. I mentioned earlier his association with almost all of the dead innocents. Admittedly, if he is a Wolf, he has been playing boldly, killing at night those he stated as his suspects (or voted for) or those who suspected him. But look how this has turned out for him? He is now regarded as most probably innocent by many because of it.

Then there are some of the things that he has said:

I agree with others that those who made isolated votes should be watched closely. Votes late and unexplained are even more suspicious than votes for the innocent.That would include Naria. Obligatory suspicion cast in the direction of a fellow Wolf? And not only her either - it's a generalisation about the quiet ones. Yet, he never voted for her, or even really came close to doing so. On the day that she was lynched, he voted instead for Marcolie.

And what about his treatment of Cailin?

I'm not going to waste the whole day defending myself to Cailin, who seems to have a awful mean streak that seems quite predatory …

*******************
I'll admit it, if I was a wolf I would have taken out Cailin and not the vague giggling-kitten. She has it out for me and I am not sure why, It just seemed Valier was just following her lead to a certain death. I looked at the photo of Cailin on the photo page to try to get a feel for her aggression and don't see the pretty young woman acting so aggressively if not for a lupine identity. I'm confused and as angry as SpM right now for the way the village is acting. I will continue to disregard her suspicions and propose we weed out the non-participants.

*******************

I keep wanting to call Cailin, Anguirel by accident and couldn't understand why. Now I know why, because she seems so ANGry. I expect her to behave with the same bluster when she returns and won't vote for her until she does so.

*******************
I apologize if seem to get too personal, I am just reacting to someone who wished me dead. This is why I tried to keep my mouth shut this game, I forget how young and sensitive some of the Downs members are. Anyways, best of luck to you. I plan to keep to my pledge not to post a retribution vote and hope there is not a double lynch in the making.I didn't think much of this at the time, as I suspected Cailin myself. But others found it strange and, looking back, it certainly is. Throughout Day 3, Garin kept going on about how mean and angry Cailin was. As far as I can see, she did very little to deserve such an accusation, other than to suspect him. He also said that he would not vote for her in retribution, but ended up doing an about-turn and doing just that.

I think it a mistake to target Sauce at this time. He has these long posts that might reveal his identity if we are patient.Now this might look like something an innocent would say. But it is also something that a Wolf might be thinking if he was considering whether I might be Gifted. A way of saying something Wolfish, but making it look innocuous? Perhaps he has been taunting us?

Well, I didn't want to mention this because it makes me look suspicious in its own right. I think it quite obvious that the wolves are trying to set me up. TWO nightly deaths in a row from people that have either voted for me or raised suspicion of me in their last breaths? I am hardly that bold, especially since suspicions of me came early.Garin said this early on Day 4, shortly following the revelation of Marcolie's death. Was he taking the opportunity to reinforce in our minds the notion that he was looking way too suspicious to be guilty?

Then there is his seeming reluctance, on Day 4, to accept that malkatoj was the Seer.

I'd like to believe Malkatoj but she has accused someone who no one else has suspected ...

I don't want to believe that TGBWS is a wolf because he seemed to be one of the first to vote for Naria in the game, It could have been a wolf thing but I won't be surprised if we are falling into a trap.He carried on in the same vein for much of the day, even after TGWBS admitted his Wolfishness. Did he initially take this position because he thought that there might be some way to save TGWBS? Sounding us out to find out whether anyone felt the same way? He voted pretty early for TGWBS, but at the same time kept questioning malkatoj's declaration.

Ah well. there we have it. Not conclusive, but then none of the cases are. However, I have come round to the view that our lynchees for today should be Kath and Garin.

If spawn is a Wolf, I will be otherwise preoccupied for a very long time in kicking myself. :rolleyes:

I will have to leave shortly, but I hope to be back an hour and a half before the deadline. We should try to agree on our lynchees at that point and then agree how everyone should vote. As I said, all votes should be in by half an hour before the deadline (although we cannot rely on Kath turning up to vote). I will be able to hold my vote until just before voting closes.

If you cannot avoid voting in the meantime, please try to vote in a way that still allows a double lynch.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 12:56 PM

And my initial concerns about Garin are beginning to re-establish themselves. Just on the basis of some of the things that he has said. If he is a Wolf, he has been taking risks. But, who knows? Anyone else care to take a look at him? I was already wondering if everybody had cleared him...
I may have to vote within an hour, I hope that I have more time, though, but I can take a look at Garin if an analysis from a suspect will do. It won't be that profound because of the lack of time, but I can try.

If she is a Wolf, she has been doing a fantastic job of hiding it. I am beginning to doubt my earlier assessment of her. Oh, I get it. :p :D

Edit: Sauce got there first.

Garin

02-14-2006, 01:19 PM

Rebuttal: I read anger into Cailin, I really did, perhaps it was a reactionary response to her accusations.
I have made many posts but haven't said a whole lot, it is my style, I've strived for quality over quantity but it pales in comparison to others.
I said i would follow Saucepan's lead. Does that mean I should vote for myself. I was inclined to vote for Kath.
My feelings about Spawn: It could be a sneaking in under the radar tactic.
EDIT: Whatever this 'radar' thing is.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 01:29 PM

Nice analysis, Sauce.

All I can add is what I already said in my post #270 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=445201&postcount=270). I found it funny that shortly after Márcolië had said that her main suspects were Naria and Garin, Garin went to cast his vote for Márcolië just because her post #259 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=445092&postcount=259) looked wolvish to him.

I'm up for lynching Kath and Garin toDay.

My feelings about Spawn: It could be a sneaking in under the radar tactic. So you mean that I have done nothing else that would look suspicious to you, right? It's hardly my fault if you don't pay enough attention to me from the beginning.

Formendacil

02-14-2006, 01:42 PM

Garin seems to be... almost TOO suspicious today. But maybe I am used to Wolves of such deep cunning that I can only suspect them for being unsuspicious. Which, by the way, would make Spawn the Wolf.

I still harbour a lingering fear regarding Gil, but not one so great as to actually consider voting for him.

Kath.... the very fact that she's gone to Iceland somehow makes me think her innocent, although it's not really an evidence one way or another. But... still... I don't think her guilty.

So, the question is... do I go overboard in my suspicions of thinking Wolves undeniably super-cunning, and so vote Spawn? Or do I, for once, accept that maybe the suspicious person actually is the Wolf...

... vote Garin.

I lean towards the latter.

Garin

02-14-2006, 02:06 PM

Well, I'm inclined to go with Kath due to non-participation, even if she can't help it.
++Kath
Spawn of course likes Sauce's analysis, because it is taking votes away from Spawn. I see nothing dramatic in the defference in my postings today and previous postings.
I'm at work now so this is all I can manage really.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-14-2006, 02:25 PM

However, I have come round to the view that our lynchees for today should be Kath and Garin.

***

If you cannot avoid voting in the meantime, please try to vote in a way that still allows a double lynch.

If that is the Judge's decision:

++Garin

Kath - 3 (Gil, Nilp, Garin)
spawn - 1 (Glirdan)
Garin - 1 (spawn)

Formendacil

02-14-2006, 02:41 PM

Let's even this up a little...

I'm convinced, insofar as it is possible in this game, that Garin is guilty.

++ Garin

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 03:04 PM

Well, I'm back. A little later than expected. Sorry.

Votes so far:

1. Gil-Galad for Kath (Kath-1)
2. Glirdan for spawn (Kath-1, spawn-1)
3. Nilpaurion for Kath (Kath-2, spawn -1)
4. Garin for Kath (Kath-3, spawn-1)
5. Spawn for Garin (Kath-3, spawn-1, Garin-1)
6. Formendacil for Garin (Kath-3, spawn-1, Garin-2)

3 votes to come - SpM, mormegil and Kath.

Garin's vote looks decidedly Wolfish to me.

I don't expect to see Kath here today. Incidentally, I don't expect her to be a Wolf now either, but we are where we are. If there is to be a double lynching, she will be one and either spawn or Garin will be the other.

Still, if you are here Kath, it would be nice to know.

And how about you, morm? Are you here? What are your thoughts? I would like to see a vote from you in the next half hour or so. And my strong recommendation is that you vote for Garin.

mormegil

02-14-2006, 03:06 PM

I know not who the wolf is though I am convinced it is not Kath but this is the only way to win.

++Kath

I cannot believe it escaped you that she would not be able to let the Mod know who she would kill if she were a wolf. :p

I reveal myself now I am Maeglin and I have come back to betray this village just like I did Gondolin. However I have not understood why the wolves have played the way the did. I can only help so much. I flushed out the ranger. I knew she was gifted and reveled that I convinced so many. My next target was Malka but she came forward too soon with too many names. I went to bed hoping the wolves would have slain her that night leaving the door open for their victory. Village do with me what you wish for I care not but know this I will continue to be a hinderance so long as I am alive and I hope that all of you mortals die!

Wolf if you want my opinion kill SpM tonight and stop his meddling. He should have been killed many nights ago.

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 03:13 PM

Well, that's no surprise. It has been painfully obvious for a while now that morm is the Cobbler. Shame that you unwittingly managed to get TGWBS killed (as it was his determined pursuit of you that led malka to dream of him). :p

And your vote is no surprise either. I suspected that it might come to this.

It would be funny if Kath was the Wolf and you have just condemned her. You think that she wouldn't leave instructions, or somehow get access to the village, if she was, though she be in the icy north?

Somehow, however, I suspect that she is not.

So, unless she turns up in the nick of time and votes for Garin, victory depends upon you, my fellow innocents. For the Wolf will surely take the accursed Cobbler's advice and put me out of my misery tonight.

Thoughts on how you might play it tomorrow coming up in a mo ...

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 03:28 PM

OK, my fellow innocents. Victory is still within our grasp. Mormegil has been rash in his eagerness to reveal his wicked plotting.

Assuming that Kath does not arrive, there will be no double lynching today and she will die. She probably isn't the Wolf.

I will be cruelly ripped apart tonight. :(

So, tomorrow, that leaves:

Hunter: Glirdan
Innocents: Formendacil, Nilp
Cobbler: Mormegil
Either Wolf or innocent: Gil-Galad, dancing spawn and Garin

A double lynching is probably out of the question. It would be too easy for the Wolf and the Cobbler to turn it to their benefit. And you cannot guarantee to find the Wolf.

My recommendation, therefore, is that you take a risk and lynch Garin. A risk, yes. But a calculated one. Garin, a self-confessed gambler, will appreciate that. ;)

I am almost certain that Gil is not the Wolf. If he is, then he deserves to win, either for his cunning masquerade or for his simple, blind luck.

Spawn might still be the Wolf. If she is, she is mighty clever. For she has concealed it remarkably well. So well, in fact that she deserves an Oscar.

But I am pretty much convinced that Garin is the Wolf. It was pretty likely Kath would not be here today and that the Cobbler would hold his vote. In those circumstances, an innocent Garin would have voted for spawn, thus ensuring the continued likelihood of a double lynching. His vote for Kath was the best possible vote for a Wolf. In my view, it condemns him.

The more that I think about it, the clearer it is. Kill him tomorrow. Please.

And finally, a token gesture (or, perhaps, a chance of victory today if Kath does arrive).

++GARIN

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 03:36 PM

In the unlikely event that Garin is not the Wolf, you still have one more day after tomorrow, and a 50:50 chance, of nailing the fiend (provided that there is no double lynching tomorrow).

But I tend to think that will not be necessary.

Garin

02-14-2006, 03:38 PM

I actually thought Formendacil was the cobbler, though I guess Morm wanting to vote for a known innocent was bad. I didn't think he would seriously go along with it.
Thanks for your participation Sauce, I know the wolves usually don't let you live this long.
See you other villagers on the other side and I'll try to assuage your concerns.

The Saucepan Man

02-14-2006, 03:42 PM

Thanks for your participation Sauce, I know the wolves usually don't let you live this long.Yes, I was wondering why you did.

See you other villagers on the other side and I'll try to assuage your concerns.I sincerely hope that your efforts will be in vain, foul beast of Udun. :p

Meneltarmacil

02-14-2006, 04:03 PM

Villagers, please cease posting. A death scene will be posted in a moment.

Meneltarmacil

02-14-2006, 04:17 PM

The villagers hauled Kath off to the gallows.

"We've caught a wolf; may we lynch her?" asked Nilpaurion Felagund.

"Lynch her! Lynch her!" the villagers shouted.

"How do you know she's a wolf?" The Saucepan Man inquired of them.

"She looks like one!" mormegil responded.

Their conversation continued for quite a while until the villagers had grown impatient. They cut The Saucepan Man off just as he was saying "And what do you lynch apart from wolves?" and put the noose around Kath's neck.

"I'm warning you," the paranormal investigator said, "If you kill me here, I'll come back from the grave and haunt you all."

The warning had no effect. The villagers lynched her anyway, killing another Ordinary Villager.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street
Formendacil- Village historian

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5
malkatoj (Seer): Blown up by wolf on Night 6
Kath (Ordinary Villager): Almost Monty Pythoned, but impatiently hung by villagers on Day 6

Wolves: 1
Villagers: 7

It is now Night 7. Names are needed from the Wolf and Hunter.

Meneltarmacil

02-15-2006, 04:16 PM

When the villagers assembled in the town square, they noticed that Formendacil was not among them.

As they entered his house, they noticed that all the bookshelves in his study had been knocked over. Formendacil lay dead on the floor, crushed under several tons of Numenorean history chronicles, translations of ancient Elvish texts, and other such things.

Formendacil's desk had a single sheet of parchment on it, on which he had written part of a volume titled "Tol-in-Gaurhoth: The True story of Sauron's Isle." The dull, boring descriptions of discrepencies between the Doriath documents and the traditional Numenorean version had stopped abruptly in mid-page and someone else had written:

"Unfortunately, the historian studying these events was mauled by a werewolf at the moment he was writing this. However, he was a little too stringy for the wolf's tastes."

Another Ordinary Villager had been taken by the wolf.

Living:
mormegil- Elven smith
Garin- Truffle hunter with a half a dozen pigs and no social manners
Nilpaurion Felagund- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant- Florist
The Saucepan Man- Earnest and learned young man of the law
Gil-Galad- Shape-Analyst
Glirdan- Crazy guy down the street

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5
malkatoj (Seer): Blown up by wolf on Night 6
Kath (Ordinary Villager): Almost Monty Pythoned, but impatiently hung by villagers on Day 6
Formendacil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by falling books due to wolf on Night 7

Wolves: 1
Villagers: 6

It is now Day 7. Villagers may post.

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 05:20 PM

Well, there's a shocker and no mistake. I really did not expect to be here today.

Then again ...

Thanks for your participation Sauce, I know the wolves usually don't let you live this long.
See you other villagers on the other side and I'll try to assuage your concerns.How convenient that Garin "assumed" that I would be killed, yet here I am still.

He will, no doubt, attempt to argue that, if he was the Wolf, then he obviously would have killed me, given that I am so convinced of his guilt. I'm not going to buy that, Garin, so don't even bother.

I stand by this:

I am almost certain that Gil is not the Wolf. If he is, then he deserves to win, either for his cunning masquerade or for his simple, blind luck.

Spawn might still be the Wolf. If she is, she is mighty clever. For she has concealed it remarkably well. So well, in fact that she deserves an Oscar.

But I am pretty much convinced that Garin is the Wolf. It was pretty likely Kath would not be here today and that the Cobbler would hold his vote. In those circumstances, an innocent Garin would have voted for spawn, thus ensuring the continued likelihood of a double lynching. His vote for Kath was the best possible vote for a Wolf. In my view, it condemns him.It is clear in my mind what we must do today. Ignore the tiresome Cobbler morm ( :p ) and hang the odious lupine Garin from the highest tree in the village.

mormegil

02-15-2006, 05:23 PM

I say we lynch SpM he's far too lupine in my opinion.

Garin

02-15-2006, 05:39 PM

I argue that, if I was the Wolf, then I obviously would have killed Sauce, given that he is so convinced of my guilt.

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 06:10 PM

Much as I would love to hang out chewing the fat with you guys (Formendacil's fat in your case, Garin :p ), I think I shall wait until those with less lyncanthropic sympathies arrive, if you don't mind.

Then perhaps we can hang you both out.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-15-2006, 06:19 PM

You . . . you're still alive! :eek:

Hmmm . . . so it's Garin, then.

If it's not him, I say we lynch Gil-galad tomorrow.

I am still convinced of spawn's innocent. If she turns out to be a Werewolf, she will receive congratulations from me . . . followed by a cold, long, disapproving silence.

That means, if you're a Werewolf, spawn, admit it now, and spare yourself the heartache. ;) :p

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 06:58 PM

Hmmm . . . so it's Garin, then.I reckon so, Nilp.

If he was innocent, don't you think that he would be making more of an effort to find the Wolf? The same might be said of his contributions yesterday.

If he's not a Wolf ... well, tomorrow's another day (and I shall eat my pans :rolleyes: :D ).

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 07:08 PM

If it's not him, I say we lynch Gil-galad tomorrow.Looking back, I see that mormegil was pressing for Gil to be the other double lynchee yesterday. He doesn't know for sure who the Wolf is, but this suggests that he doesn't regard Gil as his Wolfish friend.

So you'd better hope that Garin is the Wolf, Nilp ... ;)

I now have little doubt that he is.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-15-2006, 07:11 PM

We'll get this Werewolf. I didn't escape the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth to be devoured by a foul beast of Sauron.

YOU WON'T GET THIS SON OF FINROD!!!

I'll hold my vote for now, to await future developments. I shall return in seven hours or so.

Glirdan

02-15-2006, 07:19 PM

Well, Sauce, this is a great surprise yet a great relief as well. I'm glad that you are still here my friend. Glad inded!! :D However, it's still a sad thing that Form is gone. I shall miss him and his confusing ways.

As for whom to, lynch, well, I think it best be out of the two whom we've had trouble with from the get go: Gil or Garin.

I will once again hold off my vote as long as possible. However, I will still have to vote within the next two hours. Let's get this evil lupine!!

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 07:33 PM

Well, Sauce, this is a great surprise yet a great relief as well.As much a surprise to me, I can assure you. But no particular relief. I had rather hoped to be put out of my misery. :rolleyes:

As for whom to, lynch, well, I think it best be out of the two whom we've had trouble with from the get go: Gil or Garin.I would strongly urge you to go for Garin. All of us innocents need to make sure, as far as we can, that we vote for the same person. Gil's vote cannot be relied upon, I fear, and I would rather not give the Wolf/Cobbler combo any chance of influencing the voting.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-15-2006, 07:45 PM

Looking back, I see that mormegil was pressing for Gil to be the other double lynchee yesterday. He doesn't know for sure who the Wolf is, but this suggests that he doesn't regard Gil as his Wolfish friend. (SpM)Well, it could be that he's confusing is with a true double-bluff--he suspects Gil to be a Werewolf, says it out loud, then declares he's a Cobbler. Brilliant. We think Gil's innocent.

I'm not saying Gil-galad is a Werewolf, mind you, but he's not in the clear.

After Garin is hung, and if he is revealed to be our last tormentor, then he'll be in the clear. :smokin:

Glirdan

02-15-2006, 08:31 PM

Well, considering there's not much disscussion to do, I will cast my vote.

++Garin

If he's not the Wolf, then I suggest a double lynch tomorrow between Gil and Spawn, if our Cobbler will allow it. :p

Garin

02-15-2006, 08:49 PM

Nothing makes me look more guilty than Sauce surviving. It is too obvious. The wolves have been playing this game all along. I always look like the wolf, this is the first village in which I made it past the second day.
I'm am likely doomed, but you should consider others as well. I was doomed yesterday after wishing Sauce well.

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 09:02 PM

Nothing makes me look more guilty than Sauce surviving. It is too obvious. The wolves have been playing this game all along.No, my fiend. You have been playing that game all along.

Answer me one question, if you don't mind. Why did you not vote for spawn instead of Kath yesterday? It would have carried with it a much better chance of achieving the double lynch that we had all agreed upon. The Cobbler might still have frustrated it, but it would have been a game of nerves between him and me. Instead, your vote made it much easier for the Cobbler to prevent the double lynch.

Gil-Galad

02-15-2006, 09:24 PM

I say we lynch SpM he's far too lupine in my opinion.

Malka, our seer, has already deemed Saucey of his Innocence... thats wolfish of you Morm too try to convict Saucey... even cobblerish...

Mormegil = Cobbler

Garin = Wolf

sounds rahter simple, morm is trying to call Sauce off of attacking Garin...

Garin

02-15-2006, 09:29 PM

Sauce, within a day I had gone from a position where innocents such as you and Nilp thought me innocent to where I was attracting suspicion. I blame my tongue for thinking I was in the clear for the day. I showed my personality, which I guess is sarcastic, flippant and wolvish. I had said earlier that I was leaning towards Kath but that I would follow your lead. I wasn't sure who to vote for and the hour was getting late and once again suspicion was building against me.

Garin

02-15-2006, 09:33 PM

Previously cross-posted with Gil
Gil do you read the posts or are you playing dumb?

Glirdan

02-15-2006, 09:36 PM

Gil do you read the posts or are you playing dumb?

Thank you for saying exactly what I was going to say.

Seriously Gil, what are you playing at? :confused:

The Saucepan Man

02-15-2006, 09:44 PM

Garin, I don't believe a word of it. It was a poor choice of a vote for an innocent, and I credit you with more sense than that. :p

Seriously Gil, what are you playing at?Relax, he can be lynched tomorrow if needs be. Personally, I think that Gil is being Gil. He's probably in shock that he has survived this far ... ;)

I remain pretty much convinced that Garin is the Wolf and firmly believe that he should be lynched today.

(Of course, if spawn is the Wolf, I'm gonna be doing some serious self-kicking. :D )

I'm off for now. See y'all later.

Gil-Galad

02-15-2006, 09:46 PM

too be honset, i bleieve in Sauceys words, so i'll probably have to vote for... uhh... blast i forgot... oh yeah Garin!

++Garin

i'm pretty sure your right there Saucey, and with hope you are

Garin

02-15-2006, 09:51 PM

Garin, I don't believe a word of it. It was a poor choice of a vote for an innocent, and I credit you with more sense than that.
Sauce, I might not have the head for numbers that you do and don't think you should credit me with much sense. It is obvious I can say nothing to convince you.
I had initially stated my inclination to vote for Kath and if any villager had warned me not to I would not have. Besides weren't people thinking Spawn innocent?
Last post for awhile, I will tidy up my hut.

mormegil

02-15-2006, 10:43 PM

Malka, our seer, has already deemed Saucey of his Innocence... thats wolfish of you Morm too try to convict Saucey... even cobblerish...

Mormegil = Cobbler

Garin = Wolf

sounds rahter simple, morm is trying to call Sauce off of attacking Garin...

If for not other reason

++Gil-Galad

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-16-2006, 03:04 AM

Heh, I'm almost tempted to follow you there, morm.

But no. :p

Good-bye, Garin. You have more luck in having the juicy roles than I. Too bad . . . I would have made a good Werewolf. :(

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-16-2006, 03:35 AM

Glad to see that you're still alive, Sauce. You don't have to eat your pans nor kick yourself on my account, I assure you.

If for not other reason

++Gil-Galad
:D

I am still convinced of spawn's innocent. If she turns out to be a Werewolf, she will receive congratulations from me . . . followed by a cold, long, disapproving silence. I have a feeling that's an empty threat, m'dear. ;) I'm glad I don't have to find out if I am right, though.

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-16-2006, 03:44 AM

The Cobbler has already voted. We could still do a double-lynch.

Votes:

Garin - 2 (Glirdan, Gil)
Gil-galad - 1 (morm)

Garin's vote (if he is a Wolf) can still upset this, though.

An indicator would be if he withholds his vote, waiting for the others.

Thoughts?

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-16-2006, 03:50 AM

Never mind the double-lynch today. I trust dancing spawn. If Garin isn't a Werewolf--I've very little doubt he is--we can still lynch Gil-galad tomorrow.

I have a feeling that's an empty threat, m'dear. ;) (spawn :) )You called my bluff. ;)

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-16-2006, 06:03 AM

++Garin

Let's end this game. :cool:

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 08:03 AM

It is obvious I can say nothing to convince you.More or less. Although what you have said has only served to reaffirm my opinion. I could flip-flop to my heart's content, if I was so inclined, but there comes a point where one has to take a view.

Apologies in the unlikely event that you are innocent, but there we have it.

The Cobbler has already voted. We could still do a double-lynch.It's still on the cards, depending upon what Garin does. I am loathe to double lynch someone that I believe to be innocent alongside someone I believe to be guilty, but I will take a view when the time comes.

Funny how this has turned out after all my bluster about lynch mobs and justice at the beginning ... :rolleyes:

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-16-2006, 08:06 AM

It is clear in my mind what we must do today. Ignore the tiresome Cobbler morm ( :p ) and hang the odious lupine Garin from the highest tree in the village.
So... no double lynching?

Then perhaps we can hang you both out. Or a double lynching anyway?

Glirdan -> Garin
Gil-Galad -> Garin
mormegil -> Gil-Galad
Nilp -> Garin

Score: Garin-3, Gil-1

Garin -> ?
spawn -> ?
Sauce -> ?

Edit: Cross-posted with Sauce.

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 08:15 AM

Or a double lynching anyway?It's up to you how you vote, spawn. If you vote for Garin, you will guarantee his death and there will be no double lynching. If you vote for Gil, you give a Wolfish Garin the opportunity to take an innocent Gil with him.

Of course, if you are the Wolf, a double lynch will seal your victory ... :eek:

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-16-2006, 08:33 AM

It's up to you how you vote, spawn. If you vote for Garin, you will guarantee his death and there will be no double lynching. If you vote for Gil, you give a Wolfish Garin the opportunity to take an innocent Gil with him.No, it's not up to me. It's up to all of us who haven't voted yet. For example, if we both vote for mormegil, Garin can either die by himself or take the Cobbler with him. That wouldn't necessarily make much sense, but I'm trying to say that it's not just my call, whom we lynch toDay, but we can discuss it now.

Of course, if you are the Wolf, a double lynch will seal your victory ... :eek:No, it wouldn't. If Garin and Gil are lynched toDay and both of them were innocent, tomorrow we'd have one ordinary villager, hunter, cobbler and wolf. The villager and hunter would vote for the remaining wolf (in this scenario, me) and the wolf and cobbler would vote for either of the innocents -> a double lynching -> villagers win. Or am I missing something?

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 10:01 AM

No, it's not up to me.Well, your vote is ultimately up to you. You could, if you wished, seal Garin's fate with your vote right now, as could I. But I take your point.

And I agree that there are outcomes other than those that I outlined, depending upon how the voting goes. I was in a hurry, as a result of my professional obligations. I will have to ponder further. Much depends upon when Garin votes, of course. I suspect that he will hold his vote.

Oh, and yes, I got it completely wrong about a double lynch sealing your victory if you are the Wolf. Serves me right for not thinking it through properly. Then again, since I do not believe you to be a Wolf, it was not a major concern.

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-16-2006, 10:01 AM

He will, no doubt, attempt to argue that, if he was the Wolf, then he obviously would have killed me, given that I am so convinced of his guilt.

I argue that, if I was the Wolf, then I obviously would have killed Sauce, given that he is so convinced of my guilt. :D

I think there won't be need for a double-lynch toDay, but I can hold my vote for a few hours if we for some reason want to have two corpses instead of one.

Edit: Cross-posting again.

mormegil

02-16-2006, 10:34 AM

I'm feeling somewhat rejected and despondent because nobody wants to take my suggestion. :(

I say we kill Gil and then SpM.

Garin

02-16-2006, 11:18 AM

Spawn
Did you not get the sense of irony that the sentence exactly mirrored Sauce's. You people just don't get me.

I was kidding.

++Gil-Gilad

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 11:29 AM

No, it wouldn't. If Garin and Gil are lynched toDay and both of them were innocent, tomorrow we'd have one ordinary villager, hunter, cobbler and wolf. The villager and hunter would vote for the remaining wolf (in this scenario, me) and the wolf and cobbler would vote for either of the innocents -> a double lynching -> villagers win.Well, with Garin's vote, that now looks to be back on the table.

Current votes:

Garin - 3 (Glirdan, Gil-Galad and Nilp)
Gil-Galad - 2 (mormegil and Garin)

Spawn, why don't you vote for Gil-Galad and I will then wrestle with my conscience over whether to play it safe and withold my vote, or save a probably inocent Gil by voting for Garin?

One question. Are we sure that one villager and the Cobbler remaining at the end of all things is a village victory?

I'm feeling somewhat rejected and despondent ...Good! :p

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-16-2006, 01:19 PM

Spawn
Did you not get the sense of irony that the sentence exactly mirrored Sauce's. You people just don't get me.

I was kidding.

Did you not get the sense of amusement the smiley symbolized?

I got it alright.

Spawn, why don't you vote for Gil-Galad and I will then wrestle with my conscience over whether to play it safe and withold my vote, or save a probably inocent Gil by voting for Garin?That's fine with me. Happy wrestling then.

++Gil-Galad

One question. Are we sure that one villager and the Cobbler remaining at the end of all things is a village victory?Why wouldn't it be? I mean, Menel didn't say this in his rules, but in every other village the wolves win if there are as many villagers as wolves in the end, and the villagers win if they kill all of the wolves.

Garin

02-16-2006, 01:33 PM

Sorry, Spawn I tend to be blind to smilies. I'm glad I didn't call you a name.
EDIT: errant apostrophe

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 02:54 PM

Garin - 3 (Glirdan, Gil-Galad and Nilp)
Gil-Galad - 3 (mormegil, Garin and dancing spawn)

Yet to vote: The Saucepan Man

That's fine with me. Happy wrestling then.Actually, I had more or less made up my mind already. Your pointing out that a double lynch would inevitably result in a villager victory and then voting for Gil pretty much cleared up any doubts that I harboured about you. So, by my reckoning, a double lynch should end this nightmare tonight. And I would rather that outcome than another day, both because there is little intrigue left and because I would prefer to live.

Sorry Gil if (as I suspect) you are innocent. It's odds on that Garin's the Wolf, but there is still an outside chance that you were bluffing us.

So I will not be voting today.

Hopefully, that will wrap things up and we can get back to village life, albeit on a much smaller scale. Oh, and perhaps we can find some therapy for morm and rehabilitate him back into polite society. :D

Meneltarmacil

02-16-2006, 04:19 PM

The villagers led Gil-Galad and Garin to the gallows. Two would die that Day.

"Notice the right angles formed by the boards here?" And the right triangle up here?" Gil pointed out. "These shapes are clearly gasp...choke...gaggggg..."

He hadn't transformed at all. The villagers turned to Garin.

"This way, Wolf," The Saucepan Man ordered.

"I'm no wolf," Garin firmly replied. "You're falsely accusing me."

As if on cue, his pigs rushed to his defense and leaped upon Saucepan and dancing spawn, while mormegil pulled out an elvish dagger and threatened Nilpaurion Felagund.

Glirdan, however, appeared on the scene. He shot the pigs wih his hunting arrows, allowing Saucepan and spawn to rush morm.

Turning to Garin, however, the surviving villagers noticed that during the fight, Garin had sprouted fur and fangs. The wolf charged at them.

However, he ran right off a cliff and landed on the rocky shore far below.

The last wolf was dead, and the village saved. Everyone cheered... except for mormegil, who had been a Cobbler in his spare time and had wanted so much for the wolves to eat everyone.

Living:
mormegil (Cobbler)- Elven smith
Nilpaurion Felagund (Ordinary Villager)- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant (Ordinary Villager)- Florist
The Saucepan Man (Ordinary Villager)- Earnest and learned young man of the law
Glirdan (Hunter)- Crazy guy down the street

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5
malkatoj (Seer): Blown up by wolf on Night 6
Kath (Ordinary Villager): Almost Monty Pythoned, but impatiently hung by villagers on Day 6
Formendacil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by falling books due to wolf on Night 7
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Lynched by villagers on Day 7
Garin (Werewolf): Driven off cliff by villagers on Day 7

Wolves: 0
Villagers: 5

Villagers Win!

Glirdan

02-16-2006, 04:21 PM

Yay!!! Go us!!! We won!! And this time I lasted to the end and as the Hunter!! I'd like to thank everyone for such an awsome game!!! Now to get to the reppiing....

Garin

02-16-2006, 04:30 PM

I'm absolutely delighted that I was able to kill one last innocent before my demise. After the death of The Guy I was crushed. You see, I had been more than happy to follow his voting decisions until the last day. HE THOUGHT MALKATOJ WAS THE SEER AND WANTED HER GONE. If I had listened to him, the werewolves would've won.
How miserable I was after that. Instead, I was convinced Marcolie was the seer.
The village owes its life to Malkatoj and her 'coming out.'
I was trying to control myself in the beginning because I act perennially lupine but that cast more suspicion on me. I reverted to being myself and it doomed me and my pack.
I figured that my audacity would keep me around for awhile, long enough to keep the other wolves safe. Once I was on my own, i couldn't change my behavior, as damning as it was.
My decision not to kill Sauce was kind of rebellious because I don't like being told who to kill.
Plus, Form made me mad because I thought he was the cobbler and I think my personal exchange with him was the lynch pin in my demise.
Before that many of the vocal ones started to think I was innocent. So, I regret nothing.
Anyways, congratulations you decimated villagers.
I never expected to live so long. Thanks for killing Gil too. If I had known how inept he was I would've killed Sauce. ;)
Thanks to Naria, TGBWS and Morm. Next time the innocent won't be so lucky.
EDIT: It was kind of fun and challenging to keep Sauce around, he should feel indebted to me for letting him last.

Naria

02-16-2006, 04:35 PM

Good job guys and gals!! After I had died I was root'n for the village!

Great game everyone and Congrats to the village!! :D

P.S. Thanks TGWBS and Garin you both were awesome pack mates.

Garin

02-16-2006, 04:39 PM

Good job guys and gals!! After I had died I was root'n for the village!
How could you Naria?
Maybe your sympathies for the village existed before your death. You should have stuck with your fellow lycanthropes.
I mourned your death.

Farael

02-16-2006, 04:43 PM

How could you guys be so blind!! !IT WAS OBVIOUS TGWBS AND GARIN WERE WOLVES!! but then, I had the master list. Yeah, I guess it wasn't that obvious, but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game. Well played though, For a moment I thought the village was doomed, then Malkatoj saved the day but you wouldn't decide on lynching Garin!! He played a good game I believe, far luckyer than his first stint as a wolf.

Good game you all, looking forward to play one and (or) mod one!!

Gil-Galad

02-16-2006, 04:48 PM

OOh Rah! this was fun time... i still can't beleive i've lasted this long... and thanksfor all you guys noting my good Masquarade, its what i do, i act silly enough nobody cares about me... i'm a Drunken Master :D seriously, it happened to me in Risk...

good game everyone! good teamwork guys, it was all me!!

see you next game

Glirdan

02-16-2006, 04:51 PM

but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game.

You find it stressing to watch? I think it's hilarious when the Ranger PM's the person they're going to protect it ends up being a Wolf!!

Anyway, good game everyone. If you want my list of peopel whom I hunted, it's best to ask Menel because I didn't keep a list. :o

Naria

02-16-2006, 04:54 PM

How could you Naria?
Maybe your sympathies for the village existed before your death. You should have stuck with your fellow lycanthropes.
I mourned your death.

Come, come Garin. If you had been put in the spotlight by one of your own kind over and over again like I was and died as a result you wouldn't be rooting for the other side? I know everyone has there own opinion but at that time in the game I was just being talked about because of my quiteness and was getting ready to redeem myself in some way and TGWBS hung me out too dry. Sorry Shorty. But it's true. :p I made a terrible wolf, maybe it was because it was my first time being one. However I am surprised that you lasted for as long as you did, good job! :D

People please don't turn this into something that it's not, I'm not bitter(anymore at least)and had fun playing with all of you. :)

It's repping time!!

Valier

02-16-2006, 05:09 PM

Aha!!! I knew you were a wolf Garin!! Sorry but I guess I will always suspect you....We should call a truse (sp.?) So was it you who got me killed? ...just curious.

Shelob

02-16-2006, 05:16 PM

Good Game All. And I knew you were a wolf Garin, I just knew it...not that it did me any good mind you, but I knew it.

Meneltarmacil

02-16-2006, 05:23 PM

Um, I kind of wound up deleting most of Glirdan's requests from previous Nights in order to make room for new wolf kills, seer dreams, and such after the new Day had begun, so I really don't remember them either.

However, I do remember one occasion on which Cailin tried to protect The Saucepan Man on the very same Night that Glirdaga* tried to hunt him.

*Okay, it's official. "Daga" is part of the average BDer's vocabulary now.

malkatoj

02-16-2006, 05:55 PM

You fools! You killed Kath! I dreamt of her the night I died and all day I was sitting there saying 'Don't kill Kath Don't kill Kath Don't kill Kath' over and over. And you did anyway.

'twas a fun game! I quite like being a seer.

Kath

02-16-2006, 06:08 PM

Well done guys! Sorry I had to miss so much but wow this was a fast game!

Menel, any chance of information regarding who chose what each Night?

mormegil

02-16-2006, 06:58 PM

Cobbler was a wonderful role and while I didn't come through from my wolves I felt like I helped some. I was really hoping that the village would kill me this last day. That would have evened up the numbers a bit and given Garin the chance. I knew it was him for the last couple of days.

I attempted to leave a very subtle hint or two hoping that the wolves would pick up on them but seemingly only SpM picked up on them. It was rather fun flushing out Cailin as I fully knew she was gifted. I was hoping and hoping that they would kill Malka the night they killed Marcolie. This role really made me think differently and I think better than I have in the past.

Thanks to Formendacil for providing good cover for the first couple of days.

Great game all...and Sauce how does it feel to actually survive until the end? It very rare that you and I do that :rolleyes:

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 07:33 PM

Phew!

I don't have to eat my pans or spend the next five weeks kicking myself after all ... :D

Well, that was - er - stressful. I'm wondering whether it might be better to go back to consistently being killed within the first two days.

But great fun, too.

I cannot believe that I survived for so long, even with my initial ineptitude.

Commiserations to the Wolves, but congratulations too. You did a great job. Without malka's astute dreaming, it's likely that you would have won. Speaking of which ...

... massive kudos to malka. You targetted your dreams extremely well. Not only did you pin down a Wolf whom we probably would not otherwise have got, but you managed to declare a significant proportion of the village innocent (if not free from possible Cobblerishness), which was a great help. Though I was almost certain that you and Glirdan were going to get me lynched the day before you dreamed of me. I am so glad that you dreamed of me when you did.

As usual, I spent most of the first half of the game suspecting all the wrong people and generally helping to get innocents lynched. Sorry about that. Abercrombie and Shelob I don't feel too bad about, as a vote for an innocent is fairly likely on the first two days. But I bitterly rued my part in Cailin's death. I did actually independently reach the same conclusion stated by mormegil, but it was a self-centred view (looking at who might have orchestrated the murmurings against me) and I unforgiveably allowed myself to be swayed by mormegil's confirmation of my thoughts. You played your role very well there, morm.

However, at the risk of appearing immodest, I feel rather proud of having spotted Naria. It was little to do with TGWBS having targetted you and voted for you, Naria, but a direct result of the theory that I posted. You know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents. You stood out to me as the only person who had not voted for a known (to me) innocent. Hmm, I must bear that theory in mind for the future.

Mind you, on the other hand, it also led me to believe (at first, at least) that Garin's overly suspicious behaviour and voting pattern indicated that he was innocent. I could not believe that a Wolf could be so closely implicated in the deaths of so many known innocents. Whether intentional or not, it was a good tactic to have two Wolves with entirely different voting patterns.

As for TGWBS, well what can I say? Fiendishly cunning play, my friend and well done to you. I really did trust you right up to the end of the day before you died. I was concerned over your targetting of morm, though, who I also trusted at that stage. And that, if anything, is what really done for you as it prompted malka to dream of you that night. Had it not been for her, we might well never have spotted you.

A few other thoughts.

Nilp I knew was innocent from our exchange of acrostics (the first letters in each line of two of our posts). You could have been bluffing, Nilp, but instinctively I felt that you were not, and was glad to see that you felt the same way about my response.

It was clear (to me at least) from Cailin's death that Glirdan was the Hunter. There was an outside chance that it was TGWBS (because of his defence of her). But with malka's declaration, there really was no other candidate. Sorry for outing you, old chap, but I felt that it was the best thing to do at the time. We really needed as many known innocents as possible, especially with the Cobbler probably still lurking among the other declared innocents. And, hey, it was probably what kept you alive until the end.

Formendacil, what were you playing at? ;) Still, you helped clarify in my mind mormegil's likely Cobblerishness. Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

And why do I always suspect you dancing spawn, even when you have come across as nothing but innocent all game? It must be a habit, I suppose. But it did nearly lead us to lynch both you and Kath on the penultimate day, which would probably have proved disastrous. I am so glad that I had the time to go back and review everything and finally work out that Garin's suspicious behaviour meant that he actually was most likely guilty.

Oh, and sorry Gil. I am no gambler and really didn't want to take the risk of the game going into a further day there.

Ah well, great game. Thanks to everyone involved. I really enjoyed it. And thanks especially to Modeltarmacil for a wonderfully modded game. Just one little quibble - why'd I have to be an ordinary villager AGAIN??!!

Oh look. Another interminably lengthy post from me. What a surprise! You were so right, Form, when you pointed out that I really know no other way of playing ... :rolleyes:

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 07:40 PM

Great game all...and Sauce how does it feel to actually survive until the end? It very rare that you and I do thatWell, I managed to survive to the end of the game where I was the Hunter and Gurthang the Werebear. Indeed, I believe that is the only other game in which I was on the winning team. :rolleyes:

Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation? I wondered that night whether you might have targetted him on the basis that, given his supicions at the time, he was almost certain to have taken me out. Two innocents in one blow - and one a Gifted. :eek:

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 08:05 PM

Who Posted?

Total Posts: 470

The Saucepan Man 76
Garin 58
mormegil 41
the guy who be short 37
Glirdan 37
dancing spawn of ungoliant 34
Nilpaurion Felagund 30
Cailín 24
Meneltarmacil 21
malkatoj 20
Formendacil 18
Gil-Galad 15
Kath 10
Valier 9
Naria 9
Shelob 7
Márcolië Lamen 6
Aiwendil 6
WaynetheGoblin 5
AbercrombieOfRohan 4
Farael 3

:rolleyes:

Naria

02-16-2006, 09:07 PM

However, at the risk of appearing immodest, I feel rather proud of having spotted Naria. It was little to do with TGWBS having targetted you and voted for you, Naria, but a direct result of the theory that I posted. You know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents. You stood out to me as the only person who had not voted for a known (to me) innocent. Hmm, I must bear that theory in mind for the futu

SPM, you should be proud of yourself for spotting me and you did it all by yourself....well, good for you. I had already said in my previous post at the end of this game that everyone has there own opinion of what happened, that would have included you. I'm not a stupid person I just played stupidly this time so no need to patronize me with "you know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents." I got it. With mentioning that sentence, I would just like to say that I would hate to be an ordo and have voted the same way that I did, with your theory I would be guilty no matter what and would probably have to declare my innocents too early in the game.

The Saucepan Man

02-16-2006, 09:27 PM

I'm not a stupid person I just played stupidly this time so no need to patronize me ...Oh, I'm sorry if it came across like that. It wasn't meant that way at all. I would not describe your votes as stupid, given that it is generally those whose votes contribute towards the lynching of an innocent that come under most suspicion. It wasn't through anything particularly wrong that you did. I was just just trying to look at it in a different way, and it happened to work out.

It is so rare that I actually manage to spot a Wolf in these games, so please excuse my (very) little moment of glory ... :rolleyes: ;)

Aiwendil

02-16-2006, 09:45 PM

SPM wrote:
Nilp I knew was innocent from our exchange of acrostics (the first letters in each line of two of our posts).

I noticed your "Me too Nilp" when you posted it, but I still cannot find Nilpaurion's. Would you care to put me out of my misery?

Incidentally, I find it interesting that even after I'd been killed, there was a call for my lynching. I thought for a moment I might go the way of Oliver Cromwell.

Naria

02-16-2006, 09:50 PM

Sauce: You did do a good job in spotting me. I was quite surprised at how fast it happened. I really did enjoy playing in this game with you :)

Ahh well, now that we have 'aired our dirty laundry' lets move on, shall we :p :)

Glirdan

02-16-2006, 09:52 PM

It was clear (to me at least) from Cailin's death that Glirdan was the Hunter.(Saucy)

Was I that blantantly obvious?? I thought I was doing a pretty good job, but, now, when I think about it, that post where I put down whom I thought was innocent was probably rather obvious.

TGWBS, you had me going thinking you were the Seer for the longest time. Even Cailin thought you were. She said so in one of her PM's and after you changed your mind of my guilt back on Day 4 (not quite sure of that), I could have sworn you dreamed of me.

As for my Hunts, I believe that Night 2 was Valier, Night 3 SpM, Night 4 was possibly morm, Night 5 was Kath and Night 6 was Garin. The first two I'm absolutely certain of as well as Night 6. Night 4 and 5 I don't quite remember, but I do remember sending Menel morm's name as well as Kath's.

Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation?(Saucy)

I was wondering the exact same thing. Do tell. I was wondering when the heck I was going to be attacked because I had a feeling that after Cailin's death, I was a sure gonner.

Speaking of Cailin, it was awsome to have comunicated with you. To bad we couldn't syncronize or Nightly activities more. That's what I hate about time differences!! GRR!!! :mad: Oh well, what's done is done. Great game!!

mormegil

02-16-2006, 09:55 PM

I noticed your "Me too Nilp" when you posted it, but I still cannot find Nilpaurion's. Would you care to put me out of my misery?

Post 32 (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=443795&postcount=32) ironically I cannot find SpM's quote so if you could help me out.

I've often thought of doing this but haven't yet.

Aiwendil

02-16-2006, 10:01 PM

Thanks. Saucepan's was post 107 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=444121&postcount=107).

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-16-2006, 11:42 PM

It was good my name started with 'N,' otherwise my acrostic would have floundered.

(I'm a bit depressed: I didn't get lynched.)

Great game, everyone! Special kudos to:

malka, for saving the village--it's (almost) all you! :)

Sauce, for managing to catch a Werewolf while I was wringing my hands wondering if I'll be lynched in this game.

morm--I didn't think you were a Cobbler until Lhuna told me her suspicions.

Garin, for not changing his playing style, which almost (but not quite) saved him.

and, to daga'y who be short, who probably goes with lmp as one of the best losing Werewolves ever. I wouldn't have suspected you!

And, sorry to Cailín, for having a hand in her death. (What do I have against you???)

(Vzv, Sauce, I see we had identical Hunter candidates. Although malka was also in my list . . . )

Post-traumatic possums. It was fun playing with spawn again. :)

Poster's post-op. It's official: 'Pulling a Nilp' is now part of WW vocabulary. :cool:

Nilpaurion Felagund

02-17-2006, 01:05 AM

Too bad Cailín was already dead when malkatoj declared herself. Since the Ranger and the Hunter can communicate, they could have distracted the Werewolves's efforts to kill the Seer by making the Hunter declare himself as the Ranger.

Comments on that?

Speaking of, I was louder than Cailín! :D That's bound never to happen again, though.

Cailín

02-17-2006, 01:53 AM

Wow! For once I have been on the winning side! Great game, everyone - especially Malkatoj did an excellent job as the Seer.

Mormegil, I have been wondering for quite some time... how did you know I was Gifted? I did not intentionally leave any clues. Well, I don't like you anyway. :p Though it was probably for the best that I died then, because I was so convinced of the guy who be furry's innocence. Even worse, because he attacked Morm so violently I was actually convinced he was the Seer and had dreamed about Morm. I could not think of another reason why he would protect me like that. Ha - I'm so easily deluded.

Are you perhaps implying, Nilp, that you have merely killed me to be louder than me for once, huh?

I enjoyed PMing with you too Glirdy, though it didn't always work out. I actually spent most of the Days desperately trying to convince Glirdan Saucepan Man was in fact innocent... and then he eventually got me killed. The irony of being the Ranger... ;)

Anyway - I protected Shelob, Saucy and TGWBS. Sorry about the last one.

Garin

02-17-2006, 02:24 AM

Sauce: Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation?
TGBWS figured out Glirdan was the hunter and I accepted his reasoning. He was also right about Malk. Before he died, however, we still thought Form was the cobbler.
[Valier: Aha!!! I knew you were a wolf Garin!! Sorry but I guess I will always suspect you....We should call a truse (sp.?) So was it you who got me killed?
Well, we all agreed to kill you. It, of course, had to pass by me because you had voted for me. I was willing to accept the flack. I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked. I was willing to stick out my neck to help the other wolves. Unfortunately, I didn't expect to be the last one. I accept your truce, we seem always at odds.

Naria, I now see that The Guy knew what he was doing. I think your silence killed you off. I did enjoy some of our PMs. It is not easy being a wolf.

Formendacil

02-17-2006, 02:24 AM

How could you guys be so blind!! !IT WAS OBVIOUS TGWBS AND GARIN WERE WOLVES!! but then, I had the master list. Yeah, I guess it wasn't that obvious, but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game.

Could have told you that... Personally, I found modding it to be MORE stressful than playing... You SO want for the game to be epic, memorable, and unpredictable. You invest even more than the players do. You're lucky you were only assistant mod.

Formendacil, what were you playing at?

I've been waiting for this question since Day 1. Ah, the nectar of accurate predictions is sweet... However, you've half-answered your own questions:

Still, you helped clarify in my mind mormegil's likely Cobblerishness. Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

Oh look. Another interminably lengthy post from me. What a surprise! You were so right, Form, when you pointed out that I really know no other way of playing ...

I was playing, quite simply a game that differed drastically from my normal game, for the simple reason that it was different than normal.

Perhaps the problem is that I'm not, as I mention in-game, a very good analyzer of posts. Such skill as I have comes from the feeling I get off of people, especially with regards to their usual style of play. For that reason, I'm typically clueless until Day 3 or 4. It's also the reason I ended up, correctly, pegging you as an Innocent, and Morm as a Cobbler: I know your styles.

So, in the interests of not ever finding myself in a similar rut, it was my intention to change up my playing style... Don't be predictable- that's my advice if you want to fool me completely.

Lhunardawen

02-17-2006, 02:28 AM

morm--I didn't think you were a Cobbler until Lhuna told me her suspicions.I felt that after having played with him in all but one game - not to mention falsely accusing him almost twice - I should have learned something...

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

tgwbw's no longer under the curse...it's you alone now, Nilp. :p

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?

Formendacil

02-17-2006, 02:36 AM

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said:

"I'm somewhat insulted that some of you seem to think me a Cobbler. Seriously, do you honestly think I'd be such a blatantly obvious Cobbler? Give me some credit people! I may not be a genius, but I have some skill in this game... If I were being a Cobbler, I'd be as quiet, normal, and devious as I could be. And you have my full and explicit permission to drag up that quote against me in any future game."

And I stand by that...

Garin

02-17-2006, 02:50 AM

Well, I'm currently repped-out. More to come.
And I almost forgot-- Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker. In retrospect I best get rid of that fact. It basically answers... Is Garin capable of bluffing?
Well, yes he is...

dancing spawn of ungoliant

02-17-2006, 04:30 AM

Thanks, everyone, this was a great game!

Menel: My experience of modding is that it's awfully stressing and needs a lot of work (okay, it's fun, too, but that's irrelevant here). Anyone who can make the Days and Nights start on time and make up the deaths for right people is a hero of mine. Well done! :)

The Wolves: It was a very nice try, but malkatoj's excellent performance as the Seer kind of ruined your efforts.

Formendacil: Ha! I knew you were innocent. Although...
I should let you all know, right now, that I am the Ranger, and I've dreamed about all of the villager, and if anyone kills me, I'll kill Nilp, 'cause he wants to be lynched

***
And if you believe everything I've said, you're madder than I am!...that "everything" there made me think that perhaps you are one of the Gifteds acting in a cobblerish way so that the wolves wouldn't kill you, but later on I abandoned the thought.

And why do I always suspect you dancing spawn, even when you have come across as nothing but innocent all game? It must be a habit, I suppose. But it did nearly lead us to lynch both you and Kath on the penultimate day, which would probably have proved disastrous.Well, I would have been disappointed if no-one had really suspected me during this game. It was delightful to stay alive till the end for a change, though, so I'm glad that you didn't lynch me.

Oh, and thanks for my Personal Cobbler, although I didn't need it this time. ;)

The Saucepan Man

02-17-2006, 04:46 AM

Was I that blantantly obvious?? I thought I was doing a pretty good job, but, now, when I think about it, that post where I put down whom I thought was innocent was probably rather obvious.Again, it wasn't down to anything that you did wrong. But so many people had accused and/or voted for Cailin that, crossing them and those who she had accused/voted for off and looking at those who had defended her/she had defended, there was really only a small pool to choose from (namely you and TGWBS).

TGWBS, you had me going thinking you were the Seer for the longest time.Yes, I had the guy who be cunning down as one of my candidates for Seer too. I didn't spot malka at all, even after she suddenly changed from wanting me dead to thinking me innocent. You see, rightly or wrongly, I work on the assumption that the Seer will dream of me early on and look for those who seem to think me innocent in the early stages. I suspect that a big dose of hubris is in order. :D

I was wondering the exact same thing. Do tell. I was wondering when the heck I was going to be attacked because I had a feeling that after Cailin's death, I was a sure gonner.It is always dangerous for the Wolves to attack the Hunter, especially with so many other known innocents, so I would guess that they thought that it was safer to go for one of those that couldn't harm them. The Hunter is an interesting role because, once declared, you become a known innocent who the Wolves are reluctant to kill. But then you don't get to use your special power.

Thanks. Saucepan's was post 107.That's the one. I ddn't spot Nilp's message until Day 2 but, when I did, I really could not resist responding in kind. And it proved effective, since Nilp and I pretty much trusted each other from there on in.

I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked.Yup. You had me fooled for most of the game.

So, in the interests of not ever finding myself in a similar rut, it was my intention to change up my playing style... Don't be predictable- that's my advice if you want to fool me completely.I try. I really do. I tell myself that I am not going to post so frequently and at such length. And then I just get into the game and it happens. :rolleyes:

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?Tell me about it. I am convinced that I am destined never to be a Wolf. In fact, I am so used to playing a Villager now that I will probably make a dreadful Wolf as and when it does happen ...

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said ...Indeed. I took your comments that you would be playing very differently were you a Wolf or the Cobbler at face value, so I had pretty much crossed you off my suspect list even before malka's declaration.

Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker.I cannot take too much credit there. You pointed to it yourself during the game. :D

WaynetheGoblin

02-17-2006, 06:14 AM

i will give you all one guees at why i voted for my self.

the guy who be short

02-17-2006, 06:37 AM

Illamatar above, but that was fun! My first time wolfing - and henceforth, I will probably be condemned to lynching on the first few days. Alas.

I will first answer a few quick questions, even though Garin has already answered them.

Yes, after Cailin's death I realised Glirdan was the Hunter (but not until the Day after, when I had more time to analyse her posts properly). I compared her innocent lists from two days in a row and found Glirdan to be the only person on both. We decided to leave him alive... ah, but you will see why.

As for abandoning Naria - yes, that was a little harsh of me. As SpM said, I voted for you on day 2 when I knew you would come under little suspicion, so that was completely safe. Furthermore, I knew that if either of us were to die, the remainder could use it to their advantage. An old wolf ploy.

The Day of your lynching, though, I thought hard about trying to save you. I decided against it because it would incriminate me after I had gone against morm so strongly. Sorry about that... but it was either save you for one more day and incriminate myself, or let you die and appear as innocent as I did.

About people thinking I was the Seer - wow. :eek: I didn't expect that.

And finally, in phantomesque style, I have saved the wolvish Nightly discussions. They shall be up soon.

the guy who be short

02-17-2006, 08:01 AM

Here it is: I think we survived the first day in good shape. I am disturbed that Abercrombie said to look into me, I didn't even vote for her. Shelob's vote for me is bothersome as is Form's statement that I am a werewolf. Form also said TGWBS is guilty. We might see a seer in the mix, especially Shelob. I would be willing to attempt a double bluff and take out Form or Shelob. Form voted first for Valier. It could make her a prime suspect. I want to be bold and not safe with this kill, if you two make it, that is all I want...
Both of you are very quiet, I have settled down a tad. This seems to be normal behavior, but let's not screw this up. Would you prefer to be a boring lil' ordo?
Werewolves must win.
I think Form should be our vote, it will waste another villager day voting against Valier. Form is not as high profile as Sauce or Morm but is quite experienced. Though I would gladly take Shelob. Hey guy what do you think? (Garin)

Right. Formendacil is the only name you've really mentioned, which strikes me as odd, Garin, considering you said you don't want a safe kill. Formen is perfectly safe because everything he said was in jest.
I'm not sure about killing him. He claims he will be quiet tomorrow too. I also don't want a "safe" (read boring) kill. I want something that will confuse villagers.
More importantly, I want to kill certain people.
First off, the Seer. Obvious enough. The earlier we kill the Seer, the better. As of yet, they'll only know the identity of one person though. I don't think we can catch them for a few days when clues build up.
The Hunter. The earlier we get the hunter, the better, as there is more chance of another innocent dying with them. Hunters often leave clues too. And, in this village, it could help us find the Ranger.
The Seer leaves obvious clues. Hunters often leave little hints. Rangers leave nothing. We'll have to depend on luck to kill the Ranger, but they aren't really a problem until gifteds reveal themselves.
The Cobbler. We need to identify this person. When we do, it is imperative not to identify with them. It may be worth mentioning it, or keeping it to yourself and sharing with our triumvirate in the night.
So, I want to try to find any hints of Seers and Hunters and I'll get back to you if I do. If not, I want a death that will confuse and that we can use to our advantage- so not Formen. He'll also probably become louder later on, which means, as Garin said, a likely lynching. (TGWBS)
I also suggested Shelob, Guy. She voted for me. Was Form really just joking? Please give me a name to consider... I say we take out Shelob, if she is a seer she might of dreamt about me first because I helped kill her in the last WWJ, and I will always be considered furry. I think it is the name and avatar. I'm on US Mountain Time, 2 hours behind EST, I can be the one who PMs the mod with a vote. I think we need the seer first, the cursed second and any other gifteds after, of course the cursed is luck of the draw (Garin)
I wouldn't advise killing Shelob. Shelob mentioned one person: you, Garin. Killing her would simply make people look at you. While we could dress it up as a werewolf set up (oh look they want us to lynch Garin!) we really shouldn't draw attention to ourselves so.
Now, we were lucky because all those nominated yesterday were innocent. I voted Abercrombie, which may bring suspicion upon me. However, absolutely everybody voted for an innocent - and that looks guilty.
Now, what I suggest is killing one of those nominated for lynching. This will expand the list of people who voted for known innocents.
The best people to kill are:
Valier (had 3 votes)
Wayne (had 3 votes).
This brings the number of people who definitely voted for an innocent up to 8. That's a considerable number to choose from, and could help confuse.
Valier voters: morm, Garin, Formen. Bad. Mentions Garin.
Wayne voters: Malka, Cailin, Valier
Wayne works. I'd rather go with him. In addition, once somebody dies, people are inclined to trust what they say. Wayne leaves little to work with, save a vote for Formen...
Thoughts? (TGWBS)
Okay Wayne will always be a target for lynching, I will kill him if Shorty sticks with that. Shelob could be the seer, as I said I'm willing to sacrifice myself as long as the werewolves win. I don't think people will think I am bold enough to kill the girl that voted for me. She could be the cobbler. Who do you think is the cobbler? (Garin)

As it stands I don't really see the votes for Valier (who, I believe, currently has the most votes). I find her giggling distracting and a little annoying, but beyond that there's no reason I can see for voting for her, and in itself that's no reason.
Abercrombie I can see a little more reasoning behind. Yet somehow I imagine that were she a wolf she'd act less like one. Especially when we don't really have anything on which to base an accusation or assumption.
For myself I'm disinclined to trust Garin, something about him isn't sitting right with me. Perhaps it's that he'd prefer to vote for one person, but votes for another on nothing but chance.
I'm rather loath to add another name to our list of those with votes against them. Then again, I'd rather not tie up the voting. I figure I'll review things then come back at least to vote. (Shelob)So it's now four for Abercrombie while Valier has just the three...
I just don't really see either of them as being wolves. I imagine that there's little chance of Abercrombie not being lynched now, as I'm pretty sure that most the votes which are going to be in are in.
I don't want to bandwagon (vote for Aber) and I don't want to tie it (vote for Valier) so I'm just going to vote for the person I have the worst feeling for right now, and that's still
++Garin
It probably won't help today at all, but it beats a bandwagon or a tie. (Shelob) Do you truly believe she's the Seer, Garin? I don't believe so, as she didn't mention you at all in her first message (not reproduced here). I think the vote for you based on using a coin is sound - it seems an apathetic thing to do.
Now, I like Wayne, but I am perfectly willing to let you kill Shelob. If you do, I can't promise you a defence tomorrow, especially if she's the Seer. Even if she isn't, I spend my days trying to act as much like a villager as possible, and her death would strongly infer your guilt.
In short, what I'm saying is this: If you believe Shelob to be the Seer, I will kill her. But if we go for her, either way, I will most likely turn against you in the Day.
Naria seems quiet... (TGWBS)
Well, I think that SPM might be the Hunter, Seer being more far fetched but not impossible. His post #22 at the top really made me suspicious.
Shelob may be the cobbler, post #23. Seems a little to off to be an ordo and goes after SPM.
What do you two think? I will go with the majority with the voting, maybe even Nilp again. (Naria)

Alas, I cannot protect you by night as you seem to think. But I can wield the sword of justice by day. And as long as I have the strength in me to do so, I shall. It is by the application of cold logic, rather than cold steel, that we shall rid ourselves of this evil that plagues us. (SpM) Hmm. That doesn't strike me as very hunter-y. Perhaps he did mean for there to be connotations, but I'd think SpM would be more sensible. He just seems to be saying that logic is good. I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to. SpM's problem is that people listen to him because they know how clever he is - then turn on him when he's wrong.
Nothing about post 23 points to Shelob's cobblerism to me. Care to extrapolate, Naria?
Also, again to Naria in particular, I'd advise you not to go after Nilp again tomorrow. I am traditionally a staunch defender of him, and will have to turn on you tomorrow. It would be best to wait for me to attack you for voting Nilp, then coming up with a defense, but I probably wouldn't be able to do so until about 11:00am EST.
I no longer think we should kill Wayne. He says little. It will seem too much like a setup, and will give three likely innocents rather than three potential werewolves.
So, unless Naria comes up with something about Shelob being the Cobbler, I'll go with killing her. However, this WILL bring suspicion upon Garin. I'll only agree to her killing if he goes with it.
One last name to bring up: Aiwendil. Werewolves, you say? No trouble at all; I'll have a wooden stake fixed up in half a moment.Not much, but could possibly be a hint at Hunterism.
I've looked long at the place where Meneltarmacil was slain and I've found not a thing as points the finger at anyone in particular, if you follow me. So it seems to me the best thing's to keep our eyes open for anyone acting suspicious-like.Seer hints, as I interpret them. I am now more in favour of killing Aiwendil than anybody else. He also has a go at SpM.
Now, Aiwendil is rational, but not so loud as to be lynched. These are prime enemy traits from a wolf's point of view. Aiwendil also voted Abercrombie, I could manipulate that to bring suspicion upon Kath.
I am now most in favour of killing Aiwendil. Thoughts? (TGWBS)
Okay Guy, you have sound reasoning for Aiwendil and I will go along with it. (Garin)
Aiwendil sounds good to me. I was trying to help and maybe take a look at some other players as too my thoughts on them(however brief). I have not yet been a wolf and trying to do my best. TGWBS if you would like to be the "wolf leader" then please say so. You can come after me if I vote Nilp, like you did last time, but last time I had a defence and was a gifted. This time I don't think I could come up with too much to save my hide. So do what you must(if I vote for Nilp).But i fear I will die if you do.
Talking about Nilp, why do you want to save him so bad? He comes into EVERY game and commits suicide. AND we are the wolves, does it really matter who we kill.
Not much time left, I'll go with whomever you two agree on. (Naria)

Naria - I am just as new to wolvery as you are, as astounding as it sounds! If anybody deserves to be "leader" it's Garin, but I think we should all try to input as much as possible and decide together.
As for Nilp - I wish to act in character. Every game, I protect Nilp and go after those who vote for him, as doing so is useless, an easy vote, etc.
So, I think I may have to leave now (though continue PMing me, I'll read them later!). If Naria agrees, could one of you PM Farael and say we've decided on Aiwendil. If you disagree, Naria, then I will veto killing Wayne. Anybody else we've discussed, feel at liberty to kill, if you don't choose Aiwendil.
Farewell until the morrow. (TGWBS)

Aiwendil sounds good to me. Garin are you still pm'ing Farael? TGWBS if you want to stay in character then you should, but if I'm not the only one voting for Nilp(and I won't if I am the only one) maybe don't make a huge deal about me (mention me in your post but put more focus on someone else?)
I don't think that we should have a leader per say. The three of us should just take everything that the three of us have too say into consideration and one of us pm the mod. Working together is going to get us lycans further. (Naria)
I have snatched a few more minutes of internet time!
Seeing as we're all agreed, and Garin hasn't replied yet, I'm sending this to Farael too (in the same PM)
Farael, we have decided to kill ++AIWENDIL. (TGWBS)

The Saucepan Man

02-17-2006, 08:27 AM

Hmm, fascinating stuff.

I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to.I'm probably actually quite easy to manipulate as, while I am loud and set out my opinions, I generally have little conviction in them unless they are affirmed by others.

I would say that you succeeded to an extent guy, but your determined pursuit of morm did shake my trust in you a bit.

SpM's problem is that people listen to him because they know how clever he is - then turn on him when he's wrong.Amen to that! :D

Only, I am not actually that clever at this game as I am usually wrong in my suspicions. People just seem to think I am because I always have something to say. :rolleyes:

Werewolves, you say? No trouble at all; I'll have a wooden stake fixed up in half a moment. Not much, but could possibly be a hint at Hunterism. Funny. I thought the exact same thing.

Garin

02-17-2006, 10:54 AM

Posted by Sauce: I cannot take too much credit there. You pointed to it yourself during the game.
I did? Well that was idiotic of me.

Glirdan

02-17-2006, 02:33 PM

The Hunter. The earlier we get the hunter, the better, as there is more chance of another innocent dying with them. Hunters often leave clues too.

This time, you were wrong. I've only left three intentional hints about it. Two of them are the Arrow at the top of my posts and the other was saying Cailin is innocent. :p

Lhunardawen

02-17-2006, 08:41 PM

Tell me about it. I am convinced that I am destined never to be a Wolf. In fact, I am so used to playing a Villager now that I will probably make a dreadful Wolf as and when it does happen ...Methinks I've found a perfect fellow wolf if I ever become one... ;)

I'd also like to keep him around - I want to see if I can manipulate him. I feel that I may be able to. Ooh...scaaaary... :eek:

mormegil

02-17-2006, 10:07 PM

Methinks I've found a perfect fellow wolf if I ever become one... ;)

You had your chance! You know what I mean :p

I've been meaning to say I always thought I would make a good cobbler because playing normally makes me a good cobbler. :rolleyes:

Gil-Galad

02-17-2006, 11:06 PM

one thing that puzzles me was when morm said to lynch saucey, and i noted that morm is a cobbler and garin a wolf, then gari nand glirdy said i was playing dumb

i'm confused?

mormegil

02-17-2006, 11:12 PM

one thing that puzzles me was when morm said to lynch saucey, and i noted that morm is a cobbler and garin a wolf, then gari nand glirdy said i was playing dumb

i'm confused?

Well I had already proclaimed myself as the cobbler and everybody knew it, or so we thought. So it seemed that you didn't notice my proclamation and made the observation yourself. Being that nobody would listen to me any way, not even Garin seemingly, I was being facetious and coy.

the guy who be short

02-18-2006, 08:42 AM

I would appreciate some advice on how to avoid lynching. I have been warned not to change my habits but I have had to do so out of neccessity. This is actually the longest I've made it as both a villager and an wolf, so maybe it is isn't so bad.
I am willing to pull a bluff and take out one of my detractors-- Valier or Cailin.
Marcolie might be a good idea, Form might be a cobbler.
I want the cursed so bad. We will surely win if we succceed in that lottery.
TGWBS voted against one of us, it ended up being a good bluff. I'm glad it didn't start a bandwagon.
So, who is our next feast my furry partners? (Garin)
I don't really know what to tell ya Garin, I realize that work should be first but in making your decision to do your work it has made people suspicious. You must admitt that the way that you are playing this game is NOT at all the way that you play other games....In saying that I don't know how some people can fly below the radar the whole game ie: Malka. She made a huge mistake and voted for a dead guy! Then retracted her vote. I thought that we weren't allowed to do that no matter what excuse.
Anyway, I'd like to get rid of Cailin and Morm they are both onto us. However this would cast direct suspision on us if we do kill either one of them right now....thoughts? (Naria)
I want to keep morm around because he probably thinks I am an innocent and will not vote for me. I am willing to take down Cailin even though it will cast suspicion upon me, I don't care, it is always upon me. (Garin)
The thing with voting for Cailin is that she didn't put you(Garin) in her post but me and TGWBS in. I would love to get rid of her though....she's too close for comfort. And what is up with Form? (Naria)
Naria, my dear I believe Cailin VOTED for me. If she is truly going after all of us, I say good riddance. As for Form, maybe a cobbler? Maybe just has an ego and help when Sauce takes over. (Garin)
Do either of you know if SPM acts like he is in most games that he is in? Like he is trying to take over...

I guess it wouldn't really matter if Cailin dies then. Don't really know who else right now. Maybe I'll go check and see. (Naria)
Hello guys (generically, of course, Naria ),

Naria, I voted for you because:

1) It was safe, but I can say it wasn't. It was early and made you equalise with the others, but you were unlikely to develop into a bandwagon and get voted for.

2) It will help us. If either of us two should die, we can point to this to take some pressure off of us.

Now, we need a plan for you tomorrow. I need to keep enough pressure on you continually that, if the need should develop, I can vote for you, but also not enough pressure for me to go ahead with it now.

Here's what I think your defence should be:

You voted at such a time that it was almost certain your vote would be the last. In this case, you could either cement Abercrombie's death - give reasons why you didn't want to - or cast a vote that would not alter the outcome at all. You did the latter, voting for who you believe to be most guilty, at the time.

This will allow me to take pressure off you for your "throwaway" vote as, in reality, there was little you could do. The best defence for voting for Nilp is this: You don't know whether he's innocent or guilty, and he has the perfect bluff if he is a wolf. Therefore, it is safest to lynch him.

Now, Naria, wolves are also infamous for sticking around near the end to vote. You must try not to do this tomorrow.

In addition, try to post more - I don't want people to be able to cast suspicion on you due to your quietness.

That is all.

Garin, I feel you are doomed... I will give some thought to how you should act tomorrow once I've looked at possible people we could kill tonight.
And yeah, I screwed up with Aiwendil... (TGWBS)
I couldn't get on at all yesterday because I didn't have a computer and everything set up on it till after the deadline. I KNOW that that is gunna come back and bite me in the butt. Hopefully not too hard
TGWBS--So you are going to mention me in today's post? That is why I should bring up voting for Nilp? I went through all of the posts from everyone and am really confused right now.
Cailin looks like she might get lynched today, came pretty close between her and Shelob yesterday. And a few people are suspicous of her. Now should we eat her tonight or let the village deal with her? Her and Morm are really the only one's that have us in there sights and because of this I think one of them should die tonight....thoughts? (Naria) Righto. I've had a quick look over what's been happening, what you guys have said, and what the village did, once again. For the record:

1. Malkatoj - Nilp (Malkatoj - 1)
2. Kath - malkatoj (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1)
3. Garin - Valier (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1)
4. Cailin - mormegil (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1)
5. Shelob - SpM (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 1)
6. Naria - TGWBS (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 1; Naria - 1)
7. Shelob - spawn (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1)
8. SpM - Formen (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 1; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1)
9. Garin - Cailin (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1)
10. Valier - Kath (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 1; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
11. Cailin - Shelob (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 2; Shelob - 2; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
12. Shelob - Garin (Malkatoj - 1; Kath - 1; Garin - 2; Cailin - 2; Shelob - 3; Naria - 1; SpM - 1; Valier - 1)
Did not vote Gil Galad, Glirdan, Marcolie Lamen, wayne, Naria

Naria, you will need to come up with an excuse for not voting. Computer problems would be good.

Killing Cailin - Perhaps. She feels I am innocent, but casts suspicion on Naria early on and votes Garin. Two out of three. So I support killing her if you feel you need to. Garin, you can claim this is a set up to make you look guilty, but be careful not to do so until it is brought up. The thing is, morm suspects Cailin, and indeed voted for her. Leaving her in could fuel antagonism. There is also ill will between Cailin and spawn that we could manipulate - I feel strongly.

Killing Valier - Perhaps. I think people may find her style a little annoying, and indeed, Kath voted for her. Leaving her could also fuel antagonism. I'm more in favour of killing her than Cailin simply because, with Cailin, we can manipulate the situation. Mormegil also suspects her, so there is potential there...

Morm - I don't agree with killing him. He is respected, but wrong quite a lot. The statement where he suspects you and I, Naria, is questionable - indeed, I have already questioned him, and if he brings it up tomorrow, will do so again. This makes that case weak. I support leaving him in.

SpM - Yes, often leads debate.

Formen - Might be the cobbler, agreed.

Now, mormegil, both Garin and I are in favour of leaving. So he lives.

This leaves Valier and Cailin. If you both agree with killing Cailin, I'll go along with it. But I see a lot of potential for conflict betwixt innocents if we leave her. As for Valier, if you both agree, I'll also go with that, I have few strong opinions.

What I think we should do is capitalise on the confusion in the village. The vast range of votes cast shows that people don't know what to think. Though some people are onto us, they are in a minority.

The best way to capitalise on the confusion is to kill another person who won't reveal much. Glirdan, Marcolie, Gil Galad, wayne come to mind.

But perhaps the worst thing for us is malkatoj. Her vote has made her seem innocent in the eyes of all. Having somebody so widely trusted is dangerous - the villagers could rally around her. In any case, killing her will leave more suspects in the village than leaving her.

So, in order, I support killing:
Malka,
Marcolie / wayne
Cailin / Valier

Please reply ASAP (TGWBS)

I was thinking that it would be a little premature to get rid of Cailin right now, looks like she might do a better job of killing herself(lynched) than we would. And would it not cast direct suspicion of Garin and I? I will leave her alone for now.
I agree with the people that you have listed. I'm thinking Glirdan might be a gifted...which one I'm not too sure. Form could very well be our Cobbler. So we should get rid of the ones that would not help the villagers for the next day. I will go with Valier however she did vote for Garin, maybe one of the others? Any one of those you listed TGWBS is good for me. I also had most of them on my list.
I will try to defend myself the best I can without being overly defensive. If you mention Nilp I will attack you(shorty). I don't know if it would be a good idea to bring Nilp up again, unless you wanted people to really look at me. It worked last game... (Naria)
Naria - I will indeed be attacking you tomorrow. It would seem inconsistent not to - I will bring your vote up early, if possible.

You should retaliate defensively. Please don't attack me though. It would create a horrible situation in which the likelihood of one of us being lynched would rise exponentially. It's safer for you to stick to a defence, and me to accept it, hold you in suspicion, but move on elsewhere.

So, Naria and I are agreed on killing Valier, Glirdan, malka, marcolie, wayne.

So far, Garin has shown interest in killing Valier. The best thing to do now is to wait for Garin to appear and share his thoughts on these villagers.

Naria, do you have an particular preference out of the five above? Could you perhaps put them in order, and then Garin could do the same, and then we could decide? (TGWBS)
Malkatoj? I thought her vote makes her look guilty, but what do I know.
I would go for
1)Valier
2)Ang
3)Malk (Garin)

Garin - Ang(uirel) isn't playing!

Malka's vote has widely made her seem innocent because people feel a wolf wouldn't make such a mistake.

So, Garin, perhaps a revised list without Ang and with the other four people mentioned as candidates - Marcolie, Glirdan, Wayne, Gil - and then we we could make comparisons and decide? (TGWBS)
Valier, sounds like this is one dead villager today
TGWBS please don't back me into to tight of a corner today from which I cannot get out of concerning Nilp....

Preferences: Valier
Malka
Cailin
Glirdan
Wayne
Marcolie
In this order. (Naria)

Valier tops two lists, so it looks like it's her. Before we finalise, though, give me a few minutes to analyse any potential outcomes of her death. (TGWBS)
I meant Cailin not Ang, for some reason I keep wanting to call her that, I've almost done it in the game. (Garin)
Here are possible outcomes and plans for the death o Valier:

1) Kath voted for Valier. This will make her seem more innocent, and she will turn her thoughts elsewhere. She could really go anywhere, though she thinks spawn is innocent. A bit of a wildcard really.

2) Valier voted for Garin. As soon as this is mentioned, you must shake it off as a double bluff, Garin. "I already got votes, then this, it's a set up," etc. This works well as you are the only one she mentioned yesterday.

That's it really. I doubt people will look back to Day 1, when Valier voted for Wayne, and Formen, morm and Garin voted for Valier.

Seeing as we are all in accord, I will PM Menel in an hour's time - this should be enough time to raise any worries or thoughts you guys might have about killing her. (TGWBS)
...and Guy try to go easy on Naria. I don't think it is really necessary to continue the accusations unless is brought up again. Be consistent but don't get the girl lynched.
Wish me luck... and the best of luck to you two. (Garin)

C'est tout. Looking back, it's annoying how close we came to killing Malka and Glirdan so early on.