Tol-in-Gaurhoth XIX: Ang Sagang Daga, bow.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It has been a fortday and a fortnight since the Prophet Nilpaurion ascended the cloud-crowned heights to obtain the 'rules' from the Mod God himself. The villagers watched the spectacle, betting among themselves whether Nilp would still come back or not. A few of the hardy ones (stalkers, if truth be known) dared to climb the mountain after the Prophet, but were turned back when bolts of lightning came down from the clouds surrounding the mountain.

Ened-in-Nowhere would have been a shocking sight for an Atani from beyond the village, a Man who had lived in a time when the golden ship of Arien had scarce a hundred years of sailing in the firmament. But this was no ordinary village; many of the rules of Physics and morality were allowed to be bent, even broken, so long as it was written in an italic fashion. But this was about to change.

Slowly, the mists surrounding the mountain dispersed, and the figure of the Prophet can be seen. In his hand were two stone tablets. He stopped short of the foot of the mountain, raised the tablets, and cried:

'Hear now, O villagers of Ened-in-Nowhere, the laws from our Mod God.

'There shall be two phases in this game: DAY and NIGHT. By the DAY every villager shall talk among themselves in public, and cast their vote. The person who receives the most votes shall be lynched. The Mod God shall allow two persons to be lynched in a DAY, but not more. If three or more persons are up for lynching, the first two to get the highest number of votes shall be consumed by fire from Menel.

'Votes shall be cast in this manner:

'++Meneltarmacil

'Votes must be in a separate line. Unlike the Mod God, his Prophet is not all-seeing.

'By NIGHT the thread is closed to all but the Prophet of the Mod God and anyone to whom he gives permission to post.

'You shall have four Werewolves in this village, and they may talk among themselves DAY and NIGHT. At NIGHT, they shall kill one of the villagers. The Werewolves shall win if their numbers equal the number of the remaining villagers, unless the Lovers are still alive.

'You shall have two Lovers in this village, one from the ranks of the villagers, and one from the Werewolves. They shall PM each other but once during the DAY and once during the NIGHT, for their love is a secret love, and a deadly one. The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

'You shall have two Seers in this village, and they may talk among themselves DAY and NIGHT. At NIGHT, they shall dream of a villager, and his true aspect shall be revealed to them, save the role of the Lovers. The Werewolf/Lover they shall see only as a Werewolf, and the Ordinary Villager/Lover they shall see only as an Ordinary Villager.

'All out-of-character comments, regarding absences, discussion of rules, usw, must be placed in the original Tol-in-Gaurhoth thread. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11911)

'Death to anyone who goes absent for a whole DAY without prior notice, unless he redeems his life by giving the Prophet a very good excuse for his absence.

'Death to anyone who does not vote for three DAYs.

'Death to anyone who does not post for three DAYs, be his absences excused or not.

'Here is the full census of the village:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Garin, the town surgeon and barber
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Anguirel, a wood-madman
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

'Remember the invisible mode, and keep the box ticked.

'It is now a NIGHT. The Mod God expects a name from the Seers. DAY shall begin tomorrow, 8:30am GMT.'

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The golden sap of the dead Laurelin, borne in the vessel of the Maia of Fire, tinged the peaks of the mountains of the East. Ened-in-Nowhere slowly stirred from its previous NIGHT's slumber. dancing spawn of ungoliant hastened to Nilpaurion Felagund's hut, wishing to apologise for her absence in their nightly stargazing. The laundry of the rich young widow, Lalaith, had taken her a long time to finish. At the threshold of his hut, she stopped dead in her tracks, for she had heard weeping inside the hut. She opened a crack, peered in, and saw the guy who be short inside, his beard torn off and scattered all around him. His was the sob the laundress had heard. She opened the door, and was to ask him what he was crying about, when she saw from the corner her eye Nilpaurion. She shrieked and fainted.

When she had regained consciousness, all the villagers had gathered to the Prophet's hut, inspecting the grisly scene before them. The Prophet was dangling from the ceiling. Around his neck was loop of rope. On the rope was the label 'XVI.' His body was pierced with pitchforks (labelled IV) and beaten with sticks (labelled VII). On the wall behind him was written the following:

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

++Nilpaurion Felagund

Adam!

'Werewolves had lynched him,' tar-ancalime, the witch, divined, 'Four Werewolves, and an alter-ego, to be precise.'

the guy who be short wailed loudly. He had taken one of the pitchforks and was now hugging it as he cried. dancing spawn of ungoliant said:

'So, he's dead. I have to die, too, right?'

The stomachs of Cailín and Lhunardawen turned at that statement. Eomer of the Rohirrim answered the laundress:

'Nay, Lady Spawnowen. The Mod God had commanded that his prophet and a player cannot be the Lovers.'

'Dommage,' she muttered. 'Let's get these Werewolves, then.'

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Garin, the town surgeon and barber
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Anguirel, a wood-madman
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Lhunardawen]

The Prophet lynched! Deliver us, oh ModErutor God!

My deepest condolences, fair dancing spawn. I pray that you do not succumb to your sorrow and go suicidal as his ancestors once did; instead gather your strength and courage. We shall avenge his death.

Now before anything else I want to make my occupation of Dark Elf (literally) clear. Think me not a spawn of Morgoth...that's just my skin color! Honest!

With that aside...If I may suggest, please try your darndest not to spread your votes too much. Day Ones, though worthy of :rolleyes:'s, tell us much later on, and they would be more helpful in tracking voting patterns if the votes are not cast against half the village on the first Day. It makes sense, trust me.

And let us be very careful with the law of the double lynching.

Hmm...I think we should look at one such daga'y in our village. He could have been too enamored of our dear Prophet until it came to a point that he wanted to be Nilp himself and so killed him. :p

[Lalaith]

A grievous morning indeed. I have taken the stricken tgwbs to my cottage and given him comfrey tea for the shock. I hope he will find the strength to join us soon.

I too have a suggestion.
Ened-in-Nowhere is a big village, the most numerous, I believe, to be found anywhere in Hildorien. Some of us like to speak, others do not.
I would urge, especially in these early stages when so many of us are still here - that the quiet speak out at least a little, but that the naturally eloquent temper their urges to speak at great length.
Those of us who are innocent and truly wish to comb the evidence for clues, may find screeds and screeds of posts overwhelming. And the quietly guilty may easily hide amidst general loudmouth clamour.

[Cailín]

Werewolves in our town? And four of them, no less? A secret love? Nilpaurion dead and Dancing Spawn in disarray? Oh, how perfectly delightful! I mean - horrible of course, absolutely dreadful. Yes, yes, too bad everyone already knows, huh?

Though I might have some other interesting titbits to share. For example, I'm not entirely sure whether Spawn is not simply faking her grief. She always lets her window open at night, silly girl, maybe hoping something furry will sneak in? And how about dear Lalaith - the circumstances of her husband's death were vague, we all know this.

And if I'd tell you all I know about Eonwe… and Farael… oh you would shudder, I promise you!

Anyway - Lalaith and Lhuna both make good points. Though seriously, you cannot truly expect one such as myself to be quiet after such a wondrous, terrible tragedy?

[Thinlómien]

A grievous event for our village. Our dear prophet is dead. May his spirit get rest.

And Lalaith you say we shouldn't babble. That might be true, though I'm not sure if I agree with you. It's true that evidence is more difficult to find from a post flood, but we should keep in mind that loudmouth wolves more probably slip something than non-loudmouths. Anyway, your request is reasonable because if everybody posts as much as I did in my previous ww, no one can manage reading even through one day. So I'd like to change Lalaith's advice a bit: speak enough that you can slip (especially wolves) but don't speak too much to flood the village with your babbling.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Woe is me! Poor Nilpaurion. My heart cries blood, I have no reason to carry on my life. I think I'll go drowning myself in my washtub...

Or maybe I'll just try my best to find the horrible beasts. Yes, that sounds better. That said, Lhunardawen and Cailín, you may wash the vomit off your clothes by yourselves. Now (I quote myself): "Let's get these Werewolves, then."


With that aside...If I may suggest, please try your darndest not to spread your votes too much. Day Ones, though worthy of :rolleyes:'s, tell us much later on, and they would be more helpful in tracking voting patterns if the votes are not cast against half the village on the first Day. It makes sense, trust me.I agree that Day 1s aren't just full of random blabbering, but they can prove useful as the days pass. However, with a village of 18 innocents and four wolves, it's possible (if not probable) that no wolf receives a single vote toDay. As you said, we may not want to spread the votes too wide, but basically, I think people should vote for the person they find the most suspicious. Maybe it would be better to get back to the voting issue when its time comes and concentrate on finding clues of possible wolvish behaviour for now, though.

Ened-in-Nowhere is a big village, the most numerous, I believe, to be found anywhere in Hildorien. Some of us like to speak, others do not.
I would urge, especially in these early stages when so many of us are still here - that the quiet speak out at least a little, but that the naturally eloquent temper their urges to speak at great length.
Those of us who are innocent and truly wish to comb the evidence for clues, may find screeds and screeds of posts overwhelming. And the quietly guilty may easily hide amidst general loudmouth clamour.Well, it's good that you want to help the quieter ones, but I'm afraid that asking the louder villagers to hold back will make it easier for the possible loudmouth wolves to hide. I don't think honest analyzing and debating in the usual manner will hinder us in our wolf hunt even if it was rather page consuming.

[Thinlómien]

As you said, we may not want to spread the votes too wide, but basically, I think people should vote for the person they find the most suspicious. I would like to add that the same might go with bandwagoners. Bandwagoning is considered a low crime, but really I think it is a worse crime not to vote the one you suspect solely because of avoiding bandwagoning.


Well, it's good that you want to help the quieter ones, but I'm afraid that asking the louder villagers to hold back will make it easier for the possible loudmouth wolves to hide. I don't think honest analyzing and debating in the usual manner will hinder us in our wolf hunt even if it was rather page consuming. I thought about that issue, but somehow didn't think that hiding aspect. :rolleyes: Anyway, I agree with you.

[Cailín]

Well, it is basically thus:

There are now five (and perhaps seven, but we cannot be sure) people who know more than the rest of us. They each have a hidden agenda: the wolves will wish to see as many innocents lynched as possible, while the Lovers are more pre-occupied with protecting each other. Their accusations may be random, but their voting will not be.

With a traitor in their midst, the wolves will be more on guard as usual. I think they may fear to cast wolf on wolf votes in case one of them is immediately suspected as being the treacherous one. However, they may have agreed on a different strategy that we are unaware of. Whatever the scenario, I think we cannot count on the assistance of WereRomeo / WereJulia. Chances are the wolves will figure out the identity of the Lovers far before we do - so I suppose we should be focusing on finding the wolves instead.

I feel like I'm rambling a little, but I am just trying to get my thoughts on screen. Call me pessimistic, but it is probable an innocent will die today. Let's in any case avoid making it two!

On a lighter note, did you know Thinlomien has been seeing Celuien lately? Hmm, I wonder what that's all about. Also, some little bird told me Valier doesn't merely shear sheep, if you get my meaning. And though Formendacil and Glirdan seem innocently unemployed, I do seriously wonder how they got such comfortable living arrangements anyway, huh?

[Cailín]

Now... the time has already come for me to vote.

++LALAITH

Because she is young, rich and beautiful and I just can't stand it. :p

[Thinlómien]

On a lighter note, did you know Thinlomien has been seeing Celuien lately? :eek: Have I?
Are you hinting a wolf or a seer union? For surely we can't be lesbian lovers...

[Celuien]

Poor Nilp. We were just beginning to make progress on his strange psychiatric condition. Sadly, it appears that he remained suicidal, or at least the personality known as Adam did. A tragedy.



On a lighter note, did you know Thinlomien has been seeing Celuien lately?

Thinlomien's visits are, of course, protected by patient confidentiality. I cannot disclose their content without risking my license to practice psychiatry. However, I am permitted to self-disclose information about my psychiatric condition and can say that I have no psychic powers, delusions of grandeur, or any type of romantic involvements.

Speaking of the Lovers, I agree that the Wolves will probably spot them first. Or at least the Wolf of the pair. So if anyone comes out strongly against one of our villagers, it could be a wolf turning against a suspected traitor. Just something to consider. And I'll be on the lookout for pairs.

My office will remain open late for anyone wishing to discuss paranoia, depression or other difficulties related to our current situation. However, I'll have to go back to my office for a few hours before rejoining the village discussion.

[Anguirel]

Graagh! Ha, raagh! The time is upon us! I come from the woods to sing to you, o despised bluebells.

Many have spoken of Wolfen. But I do not fear the Wolfen-ones, any more than I shudder before the darts of their insidiously irritating allies, the Cavalry of the Nation of Hedgehogs. Them shall I slay with my wood-axe and my abstruse cunning. Ha ha!

Nay, that which I fear is Love. Yea, yea, hearken unto me, tis Love which does destroy us! We must purge this place of all Love!

I detest you all! Ye of lesser mind, who have mocked at my utterances!

Ah, that feels so much better. Now I shall go off for a while, and I shall return with a sack of slain Hedgehog Warriors to prove my prowess.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Or perhaps my love is entirely casual... :rolleyes:

Yes, I can get away with that sort of thing and remain righteous and proper: for I have the King's favour. One law for the rich and all that — my dear SamwiseGamgee will understand this well. Of course we should not lynch such an integral part of the community as our good bank manager.

Neither should we lynch Lhunardawen — yet, though probability theory dictates unpleasant news for that pretty little elf. :p

And keep harping on about how Day One doesn't tell us anything: for though you be wrong it may lead to interesting responses from the village as a whole.

Doesn't tell us anything, HA! Simpletons! Thou wouldst never echo the music of Maglor to a grand audience.

I will immediately propose that we do not lynch me as I am linked to the monarchy; and everyone knows that royal sorts are more trustworthy than normal folks.

I'm also innocent.

[Glirdan]

This is a sad day. More so for Spawn then for the rest of us. May Nilp rest in peace. :(

And though Formendacil and Glirdan seem innocently unemployed, I do seriously wonder how they got such comfortable living arrangements anyway, huh? (Cailín)

What do you mean by "comfortable living arrangements"? I live in a hut with one room!! It's a veery enclosed area I must say and I get chlostrophobic in small areas. So don't go talking to me about "comfortable living arrangements" miss talk-a-lot.

I agree with everyone by saying that this is going to be a mostly random day and that we should be very careful of the double lynching law. The Wolves could use that to their advantage. And this is also a most peculiar village. In all the other villages that I've heard about that have been attacked by Wolve there were only three Wolves and one Seer. Now there's two Seer's (a bonus for us) and four Wolves. Four Wolves!! This is going to be difficult to say the least...

I will immediately propose that we do not lynch me as I am linked to the monarchy; and everyone knows that royal sorts are more trustworthy than normal folks. (Eomer)

Oh stop rubbing it in! We already know you're rich and powerful!! So stop flaunting it! And how do we know we can trust you now? In normal circumstances, yes, villagers would tend to respect and even follow what you say. But that's all changed. How do we know that you weren't sent here, rich and powerful, to lead those nasty lycans and try and convince us to not vote for you and your fellow lycans??

Now please excuse me while I go and wollow in pity for spawn, Nilp and myself.

[Kath]

*cries with relief* I missed half the Day and we're still only on the first page! Bliss!

But to more serious matters, Nilp dying. Unfortunate but if the wolves hadn't done it he'd have done it himself anyway!

As for levels of talk, it's hard for someone who is naturally quiet to be loud and vice versa, it tends to be something ingrained, but I can see the benefits gained from trying to moderate the amount. Still, as various people have said, it can be good if there is lots of talking, as the wolves or the Lovers might slip up. Perhaps as an in-between measure we should try talking often but not huge amounts of text all at once, as that's a little daunting!

Since we seem to be discussing double lynchings I'll say now that I'm not a fan, but can see their use in some situations. For example if the Seer dreamt of two wolves on consecutive Nights then a revelation and a double lynch would be in order.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I would like to add that the same might go with bandwagoners. Bandwagoning is considered a low crime, but really I think it is a worse crime not to vote the one you suspect solely because of avoiding bandwagoning.But then again, you are not bandwagoning if you vote for someone you deem guilty even though other people would have voted for the same person for whatever reasons.

As long as people can give well-reasoned votes, they will help our mission to lynch the wolves. I understand that might be a problem toDay, though... *coughCailíncough* :p


Nay, that which I fear is Love. Yea, yea, hearken unto me, tis Love which does destroy us! We must purge this place of all Love! But as soon as all of the wolves are dead (or maybe even sooner), the mysterious lover will be, too. I guess we can regard the Ord Lover as a kind of a Cobbler, really, so catching the wolves is our principal task now, don't you think?

[littlemanpoet]

I'm a stone cutter. I do not waste time. Stone being hard and difficult to master. Therefore I will not waste time taking my analytical tools to this metaphorical stone of 4 werewolves, with the mix of 2 lovers. On to business.

First, on posting. Louds should post as much as usual, and Quiets should post at least, at least once per day. Posts should be substantive. Simple as that.

If I may suggest, please try your darndest not to spread your votes too much.Lhuna, what would be too much of a spread, and what too little?

Neither should we lynch Lhunardawen — yet, though probability theory dictates unpleasant news for that pretty little elf.Eomer, why not? Do you have a good reason? Just curious.

[Valier]

Woe is me! Nilp gone? who shall now give me luck as I shear my sheep? I for one shall look at the "creepy's" today. Who else would want to murder our prophet?

The guy who be short I see you have lost your beard I shall go and knit you one! I promise it shall be as sweet as me!

Well I must agree with others today, we must concentrate on killing wolves, and not worry too much about the lovers today, since the wolves are more likely to find them out first.

I implore you all wolves! Give yourselves up now, while you still have a chance. I may be small and sweet, but I promise you I hold a grudge for the death of our Mod-Prophet!

I am off to clear my head! I shall make beards for everyone! They shall be lovely, and warm! *smiles sweetly*

Tah for now! Oh just thinking to myself who would have the time on their hands to kill our Nilp? THE UNEMPLOYED that's who!

[Gurthang]

Wow, you would not believe the dream I had last night. I always have strange nights when I don't shave my overgrown hair. I'd love to tell my dream to you, too, but see really, 'I have not the heart to tell you'. :p

Initial thoughts: blatant and uncalled for!

1. Valier and TGWBS are the lovers.

The guy who be short I see you have lost your beard I shall go and knit you one! I promise it shall be as sweet as me!

Well I must agree with others today, we must concentrate on killing wolves, and not worry too much about the lovers today, since the wolves are more likely to find them out first.

Sending a message, then discouraging looking for lovers? Perhaps...

2. Eomer mentions Lhuna in a defensive manner.

Neither should we lynch Lhunardawen — yet, though probability theory dictates unpleasant news for that pretty little elf.

Lover pair? Not likely, but something to think on early, and then maybe late, too.

3. Thinlómien seems suspicious.


And Lalaith you say we shouldn't babble. That might be true, though I'm not sure if I agree with you. It's true that evidence is more difficult to find from a post flood, but we should keep in mind that loudmouth wolves more probably slip something than non-loudmouths. Anyway, your request is reasonable because if everybody posts as much as I did in my previous ww, no one can manage reading even through one day. So I'd like to change Lalaith's advice a bit: speak enough that you can slip (especially wolves) but don't speak too much to flood the village with your babbling.

Seems to turn slightly. Doesn't really agree, then more or less does. Although, I certainly don't think the wolves are going to purposely speak so much that they slip up.

[responding to spawn]I thought about that issue, but somehow didn't think that hiding aspect. Anyway, I agree with you.

Almost a tad too agreeable, if you ask me...

Well, now that that's out of the way, let me just say that, by pure knowing-nothing, looking-at-the-list-and-picking randomness, I think that Naria is a wolf. Which means she makes my top six list. :D :p

[Anguirel]

Right. My lords and mermaid-like sprigs of juniper, I bear solemn news from the East, in the depths of the forests.

Though I found none of the Wolf-kindred as yet, nor any pernicious sorts infected by the grim vice of Love, I did stumble upon the Chieftain of the Hedgehog Race, and after a protacted battle I had the better of him.

"Tell me," I growled, "where lurk your demonic were-hedgehog cavalry!"

The Hedgehog Lord was no craven, but my instruments of torture were ingenious and convoluted and at last he told all.

The varmint claims to have disguised a were-army of hedgehogs under green shells and hidden them in a turtle farm. What d'ye have to say to that, Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat Wandering Horde? Ha ha!

I've noticed that there are several types in this place who seem to be completely out of their minds. You're going to have to trust in a dour, sensible sober man of arms like me. And I say, enemies oft lurk among clerihews. Ha ha!

For one, I don't like the stamp of that musician fella. The King must have kept him as a joke! His harping is terrible! I say we tie him up in a tree when we banquet in the evenings, sa-ha!

But seriously. The King be dead or fled, I don't know or care which, and this is no time for airs. As for yerrer gallantry...I sense the stench of LOVE!

As for the laundress, she makes a very wise point, and is a delightful codfish.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Hello, fellow villagers. Never fear, SamwiseBankee is here!

Firstly, may I extend my condolances to Nilp's family. For generations our bank has been close with their family, and to see them go is not just to lose a customer, it is to lose a friend.

Eomer: different rules? Surely I know not of waht you speak! Cough cough!

Now, my dinner is ready and I must fly. I have some small suspicions, friends, and I shall share them as soon as I have enjoyed my fine meal.

[Lalaith]

several types in this place who seem to be completely out of their minds

You're telling me. Celuien isn't going to be much help in catching wolves I fear...she's going to be hard-pressed keeping up with the work-load.

[Garin]

The wolves certainly made short work of out beloved Nilp. He looks worse than the time I had a mishap whilst lancing that unflattering boil of his.

Allow me to fashion his hair for the funeral though... I owe him an amends.

Gurthang: Valier and TGWBS are the lovers.

Agreed that Valier's flirtatious comments were quite suspect. Would a Lover be so blatant? As I get to know Valier I believe she could be.

Valier: Well I must agree with others today, we must concentrate on killing wolves, and not worry too much about the lovers today, since the wolves are more likely to find them out first.

Disagreed. We find the lovers, we find a wolf. As much as I'd like this experimental role to play out past the first few rounds, it is nothing but an unlanced boil on the back of our village.

Anguirel: Nay, that which I fear is Love. Yea, yea, hearken unto me, tis Love which does destroy us! We must purge this place of all Love!

Agreed. Ang just used much more eloquence than myself. I might have a new signature in there. Not that I trust Anguirel as far as I can throw him. I trust no one at this minute.

Once again the debate between quiet versus the loud rears its head. I have always been on the side of the loud and the voters for obvious reasons. Sometimes I also must be less of a participant, so I understand the occassional mute. Luckily, the chronically silent shall be permanently silenced by the spirit of Nilp after three days.

Nonethess, voting records and dialogue are the best way to uncover the true identities of our fellow 'villagers,' I encourage all of you to participate TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY>

However, with a caveat. Wolves are often invigorated by their lupine standing and tend to be bit more involved than bored Ordos.

Luckily, I know many of you from other villages, this will help me uncover members of the hairy horde.

Much more reading and analysis to do...
I'll probably vote later than others, always a bold endeavor.

Can't get used to 'Limey Time.'

No offense.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well, I'm back.

So, what is your friendly bank manager thinking? Cailin is the only obviously suspicious individual thus far. Well, I don't like it, fellow villagers. I know, there was some kind of excuse about visiting a friend out of the village, but I don't know. I shan't be voting this early- that would just be silly- but I'm uncomfortable with Cailin's behaviour. There was a whole lot of accusations, but not a whole lot of substance to any of them. And yet, I can't help but think that no wolf would be so stupid on day one. Any thoughts?

[Eonwe]

Well, well, again, we are faced with the problem of werewolves. Four werewolves, no less. And to make matters worse, we have a traitor, though it should be said, our disadvatage is offset by the fact they have a traitor too. Indeed, one who has a much greater potential for runiation!

The lovers offer some great analytical challanges, if you are up to it, and have a spare afternoon... :rolleyes: ;)

Predictably, I suffer greatly from a severe case of First Day Suspicion/Dispare Syndrom. I am given to bouts of cynicism, skeptisism, and hopelessness. (Hardly the fealings of one deeply in love, I might add. :D )

Anyhow, I think I will go with (by now) the tried and proven voting method, that of voting for the tenth person below me...who appears to be...ooo, lets make that above...who appears to be Garin!

Indeed, my fellow skeptics and pesimists, indeed, I am proposing a random vote. "So your idea is everyone vote without thinking and without reasoning! How idiotic!" you say. Well, I would ask you, what are you baseing you vote on, hm?

Anyhow, obviously I haven't cast my vote, which mean if nothing else turns up, that is how I will vote. And, or course, I wouldn't be holding with this practice the entire game, hopefully starting tommarrow as evidence becomes more and more availible. That would indeed be idiotic.

[Formendacil]

Day 1s, how do I hate thee? Let me count the ways....

But, of course, that would detract from the ever so lovely Day 1 noise that I ought to be making...

Noise that, in due time, can be analysed by the finest (read: most paranoid) minds in the village to include cunning statements of gleeful guilt, which will then result in my becoming suspicious and/or dead.

Well, let's get to it. I've not got all Day.

And though Formendacil and Glirdan seem innocently unemployed, I do seriously wonder how they got such comfortable living arrangements anyway, huh?.

Mooching.

Nilp and Lhuna are so tenderhearted to family members that I've never needed to work a day in my life. Which, by the way, clearly proves that I'm not a Werewolf, since that's half my life support gone.

(Formendacil will return in a few hours with more Day 1 nonsense. Stay tuned....)

[Garin]

Anyhow, I think I will go with (by now) the tried and proven voting method, that of voting for the tenth person below me...who appears to be...ooo, lets make that above...who appears to be Garin!

Indeed a mistake my friend unless you enjoy having the tarnish of a vote against an innocent on your record.

[Naria]

I'm here finally, you see I had a long night with a tough delivery. That little squirt didn't want to come out...driving me mad I tells ya :eek:

*sigh* Poor poor Nilp. He was a crazy fellow and now that he is gone whom will I vote for, on this, our first day?!

I best be look'n a little closer at the rest of you...hmmm or not, Gurthang looks like he got this whole thing wrapped up. He's already found six people he finds guilty and four of which to be hairy ones. Wow that is quite impressive, not! This shant be a very long game after all, according to Gurthang findings. :rolleyes:

But I digress, and will myself, look a little deeper and see what I can see before vote time.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Sending a message, then discouraging looking for lovers? Perhaps... Agreed that Valier's flirtatious comments were quite suspect. Would a Lover be so blatant? As I get to know Valier I believe she could be. But if Valier was the other lover, why would she 'send a message'. If she was a Lover and TGWBS was the other one, Valier's or TGWBS' fellow wolves would understand right away, what's going on. I don't believe that the Lovers will be leaving clues for each other. Why would they?

Disagreed. We find the lovers, we find a wolf.And when we find the wolves, we find the lovers. Surely it's easier to find a group of four wolves than two Lovers.

I'm uncomfortable with Cailin's behaviour. There was a whole lot of accusations, but not a whole lot of substance to any of them. And yet, I can't help but think that no wolf would be so stupid on day one. Any thoughts?Well, if you want my thoughts, I'd first point out that there's a possibility that she was just fulfilling her duties as the town gossip. Her vote for Lalaith looks as random as her accusations, and randomness can be a good cover for a wolf. However, many people hadn't still recovered from the shock caused by Nilp's death and they were speechless at the time when Cailín was around, so there wasn't much to say, I guess. As to accusations with " a whole lot of substance", your case isn't that detailed either. ;) :p

[Lalaith]

Something that occurs to me.
Wolves have been known to vote for each other in order to divert suspicion from themselves. This is going to be even more likely in our village, as they know there is a traitor in their midst anyway.

Which is kind of annoying, when it comes to trying to analyse votes to catch wolves.

[the guy who be short]

Woe! That Nilpaurion Felagund should die...
Oh, wondrous master, you shall not be forgotten
Let us avenge now the death of the great
For I would not have him die in vain.

I am a WOLF.

Lynch me now. It's your best hope.

++Nilpauri-

Hang on, that's not my name.

++TGWBS

[Eonwe]

This whole lovers thing is actaully really interesing. Consider:

The lover is kind of like the cobbler, and the wolf lover is kind of like a wolf cobbler. Except they are on their own. I wonder what the wolves are doing about this. Leaving it be? There is really nothing they can do, except watch their backs.

I wonder what the human lover is up to? I'd guess laying low. If you come at it from the point of view of teh cobbler, it gets most of its leverage at teh very end.

Hm, everything is swirling around in my brain. This should be really interesting, and have an espcially fun end game...

[Garin]

Dancing Spawn: But if Valier was the other lover, why would she 'send a message'. If she was a Lover and TGWBS was the other one, Valier's or TGWBS' fellow wolves would understand right away, what's going on. I don't believe that the Lovers will be leaving clues for each other. Why would they?

Agreed, I find it unlikely that a Lover would be so bold but from what I know of Valier ... I'm not convinced that her tendency toward unbridaled giddiness can be discounted.

I think I am destined to have an a contentious relationship with her, so I guess I am getting it out of the way.

Cailin
Early, early votes are always disturbing but would also be a bold move for a wolf. I actually find her innocent at the moment.

Due to my temper, I will want revenge against anyone who dare suspects me, so be forewarned.

Spawn
Of course I would like to find a wolf prior to the 'innocent' lover and NO it isn't neccessarily easier to find four wolves than two lovers. You see, anyone in love has had their brain removed and will be decidedly less clever than the canines.

At least I am not jaded. (sarcasm)

[Garin]

I am a WOLF.

Lynch me now. It's your best hope.

++Nilpauri-

Hang on, that's not my name.

++TGWBS


Oh for the love of crumb-cake Guy. It appears you are channeling our fallen Nilp from the great beyond. Posessed you are..

I am inclined to vote for you but almost more inclined to vote for myself.

In honor of the late great Prince Nilp...

I am not a wolf.

++Garin

[the guy who be short]

Wolves have been known to vote for each other in order to divert suspicion from themselves. This is going to be even more likely in our village, as they know there is a traitor in their midst anyway.Darn. Y'got me.

I am a wolf, but no lover. Even if I were a lover, you would only increase your chances of winning by lynching me, for you would kill a wolf and a dissident.

Vote TGWBS!

[Anguirel]

I am now quite convinced I am the sanest man in this village.

And the Hedgehog Chieftain agrees with me.

[Eonwe]

Due to my temper, I will want revenge against anyone who dare suspects me, so be forewarned.

I guess that's directed toward me? Be it known, I am not suspecting you. I find a very large difference in voting suspecting/accusing. And I do hope that my fellow villagers will not fall prey to unfounded suspicions, and keep votes based on occupation, or whathaveyou, as just that: simpley votes, to pass the time, so to speak.

Intersting vote, Garin. Though I don't see how mass suicides honor our Prophet...

[Garin]

I am now quite convinced I am the sanest man in this village.

Anguirel, it pains me to say it but you might be correct. Not that I'm willing to definitively declare you a MAN just yet. I am being swayed.


Intersting vote, Garin. Though I don't see how mass suicides honor our Prophet...

Eonwe, I am actually not sure what came over me, I've always held the suicidal with great contempt.

I never handle inclimate weather very well.

What is done is done. Forgive me village.

[the guy who be short]

Garin no longer wishes to die.

I think you all know where to direct your votes.

Goodnight. :)

[Glirdan]

I am now quite convinced I am the sanest man in this village.

And the Hedgehog Chieftain agrees with me.(Ang)

Just because I'm unemployed doesn't mean I'm not sane.

Tah for now! Oh just thinking to myself who would have the time on their hands to kill our Nilp? THE UNEMPLOYED that's who!(Valier)

Yes, because we're all not busy sleeping IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!! Sheez!! Seriously Ang, I'm in major agreement with you. We are the only sane people in this village. Nilp got attacked AT NIGHT!! We WOKE UP to find him dead!! No one is stupid enough (until the lynching) to kill someone in broad day light!!

And I understand that everyone wants to honour our dead Prophet, but how can you do that if you're dead!? Seriously, I know it's only the first day, but I'm already angered!

[Gurthang]

Well, so far we have three candidates on the ballot, and it appears that two of them are campaigning hard. Politicians... *shakeshead* fools! :p

Yet to speak:
Farael
Glirdan
Kath
Caranlondien
tar-ancalime

Maybe I should vote for one of them, then they'd be more persuaded to speak up... (not likely)

Naria, calm thyself, or henceforth I shall viciously attack thy innocence.

Maybe we should vote TGWBS, he's probably pulling reverse psychiatry (I know that's not the right word) on us. 'No wolf would vote for himself!". Bah! I am unconvinced of that, but remain undecided.

[Gurthang]

Scratch Glirdan's name off that list... *cursescrossposting*

[Glirdan]

Yet to speak:
Farael
Glirdan
Kath
Caranlondien
tar-ancalime(Gurth)

You may want to take me off that list as I have spoken already...twice in fact. :rolleyes:

Maybe we should vote TGWBS, he's probably pulling reverse psychiatry (I know that's not the right word) on us. 'No wolf would vote for himself!". Bah! I am unconvinced of that, but remain undecided.(Gurth)

I'm inclined to say that we leave him alone for the time being. I believe that, as Garin said, he's trying to honour our dearly departed Prophet.

[Glirdan]

Scratch that, I cross osted with Gurthang. :rolleyes:

[Garin]

Garin no longer wishes to die.

Correction, I ALWAYS WISH I WERE DEAD, I am normally opposed to making that decision for myself.

I am not sure what advice to give the rest of the villiage, but I will be monitoring.

[Garin]

Glirdan: Yes, because we're all not busy sleeping IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!!

Are you too busy PMing the other wolves?

;)

[SamwiseGamgee]

Spawn, you have raised the issue that my suspicions of Cailin may have seemed baseless, due to a lack of evidence. So here we go: Posts #5 & #9 between them point the finger at eight- that's right, eight- different individuals. That's over one third of our village randomly accused by this little lady. That's at least a little suspicious, isn't it? Couple this with a very early vote and Cailin makes my list. Not my 'Is a wolf and must be horribly murdered' list, but at least my 'Ooh, that's odd' list.

Now Gurthang did make a valid point, as I see it: TGWBS's suicidal vote is, by any standard, somewhat odd. Yet surely no self-respecting wolf would try it? However, we can't rule out some absolutely crazy double bluff on day one. If TGWBS weathers this storm he could sail in smoother seas for a few days after it, so we must be careful.

My advice to my fellow villagers: be patient, and consider shrewdly your vote. Today, more than any other, we run a risk of killing two innocents by tomfoolery. We can't let that happen. So, wait as late as possible to vote and do so wisely.

[Caranlondien]

Alas for our poor prophet! But there are werewolves about, and we must overcome our grief...

Now, I must say, 'twould be utter foolishness to lynch the village's only proper lumberjack, for though Anguirel may spend his days in the woods, I've never seen him bring back so much as a log of fire wood! Indeed, this morning as I was gathering lumber, he was standing nearby talking to a dead tree stump, which he kept addressing as "Hedgehog Chieftan".

Although I agree that four wolves seems a mighty challenge for us, it does occur to me that these wolves will be greatly hindered by the fact that they have a traitor in their midst...

As far as the lover debate goes, I must say I think ‘tis rather silly to speak in terms of priorities. We must root out both the wolves and the lovers, and I see no reason why we cannot do both at once. Deciding to focus on either exclusively would be unnecessarily limiting and would overall hurt our chances of survival.

Now I'm off to hew some wooden stakes in case vampires should next appear in our fair town...

[Eonwe]

Not so my good lumberjack. As I understand it, the lovers are a team in and of themselve, meaning both must survive to win. Therefore, we can, I think, treat this game like anyother, making it our sole priority to weed out the wolves. For when we kill all the wolves, as we must, our traitorous villain's plans must come to naught.

Is it not reasonable to suspcet that there will be two male wolves and two female wolves? Maybe not, but how would you choose the Lovers, if one wolf must be the lover and the other lover must be of teh opposite gender?

EDIT: No, it is not reasonable to assume that. Nilp probably chose all four wolves, randomly chose the wolf lover out of those, and then randomly chose the human lover out of the pool of innocencts of the opposite gender.

[Anguirel]

Well, I've examined the chain of turbulent accusations linking Cailin and Samwise Gamgee, and am inclined to side with Cailin, as well as to suggest that everyone would profit from singing in a choir with antelopes.

Cailin acted with spirit and sagacity-as usual-within somewhat limited circumstances. The banker's attack on her-as Spawndress the Laundress said-is patchy and bedraggled.

However this doesn't necessarily condemn the banker, whom I'm prepared to accept as merely eager for now. My axe likes eager people. They put up a better fight before the crunching time comes...ha ha ha...

The other two episodes of interest have been Valier's possible hint of sinful and carnal and accursed Love with TGWBS, and the suicidal voting. Of course they might not be unconnected.

If TGBWS is a Wolf, then throwing himself into danger could be a strategy to keep Valier out of it. If he's a Lover, it's a quixotic gesture.

So say the hedgerows and the chirping sparrows.

But Garin's joining in...bizarre. I tend to trust that he just let his heart overtake his mind. If only people could be rational, like me and my friends the mauve reindeer.

[littlemanpoet]

The werewolves are understandably being very cautious today. I haven't found much. This is what I have so far:

Gurthang is being over-eager. That is no indictment of lycanthropy, just reminds me of me in past games. :rolleyes: He has accused Guy and Valier of being the Lovers; his evidence leaves much to be desired. He's shooting blind, seems to me. (post #20)

Valier has accused "the unemployed". Quite random. (#19)

Samwise has accused Cailin with less than stellar evidence, as noted by Ang. (#25)

Lhuna suggested not spreading our voting out too far, but without suggesting specific parameters; this helps the village less than it appears to. (#3)

Eomer says not to lynch Lhuna toDay without saying why. (#14) A hypothesis for the Lovers could be built out of this, but that is all.

The following individuals have given substantive posts, to their credit:

Lalaith #4
Spawn #7, 17, 30
Cailin #9
Celuien #12
Kath #16
Samwise #48
Caran #49
Eonwe #50
Ang #51

Glad to see Ang not being quite so mad so as to not be helpful. This cannot be said of Guy, whose participation gets no better than this stone cutter's contempt. Garin has apologized for similar behavior, which is good.

[Lalaith]

Well, I'm going for an early bed-time tonight, and can no longer continue to vex myself over these conundrums. And I may not be here in time for the cut-off tomorrow, so to be safe I'll stick in my vote now.
For want of any better ideas, I'll follow tgwbs' suggestion. This copy-cat suicide outbreak seems very odd to me, anyhow.

++The Guy Who Be Short

[Anguirel]

Ah. LMP, my axe had forgotten about you...

I'm tempted to accuse you at once, but auld lang syne works better as a last minute swing than as the foundation for a denunciation.

Still, stone-cutter, I'm not a-liking your arbitrating tone of voice. ..

[Caranlondien]

Not so my good lumberjack. As I understand it, the lovers are a team in and of themselve, meaning both must survive to win. Therefore, we can, I think, treat this game like anyother, making it our sole priority to weed out the wolves. For when we kill all the wolves, as we must, our traitorous villain's plans must come to naught.

While I agree that looking only for wolves would simplify things, I think that there are also some problems with exclusively looking for wolves. As we search for wolves, each of us has a set of "parameters", so to speak, that we think a wolf will fit. A lover-wolf will not necessarily fit those same parameters. He or she will behave differently than will the other wolves - for the lover-wolf has someone to be protected at all costs. Though all the wolves will likely try to protect each other, it is all right for them to make a sacrifice. For a lover, this is not acceptable.

In short, I think that while we're looking for wolves, we might miss the lover-wolf. So we should keep our eyes open for both.

[Valier]

Agreed, I find it unlikely that a Lover would be so bold but from what I know of Valier ... I'm not convinced that her tendency toward unbridaled giddiness can be discounted.


Tsk! Tsk! Garin! You know me not then, for what possible harm could a small, sweet thing like me do? *bats eyelashes*

I may be sweet, but I am not in love! I just felt bad is all, for poor TGWBS who has gone and ripped out his beard. I said I would make some for everyone! Now I'm not so sure *pouts*

Why anyone would campaign for their own death baffles me. I shall read some more. I will say I will not vote for either "campaigner" today, that is just sillyness. They must be striken with grief over our prophets death.:rolleyes:

[Eonwe]

Hm. Maybe you have a point. I hadn't thought of the the lover-wolf's point of view: he only wins if his partner is alive. Even if he survivse, and his lover is dead, he doesn't win, does he?

Either way, killing four must be done to win. Of course, it doen't hurt to assess someone based on what you think of as a wolf profile. That will only bring us one step closer to victory.

[Anguirel]

As I see it, suspicion is suspicion.

If we hang a Lover, luck is with us and we should praise the Gods of the Thickets and Mushrooms.

And if we hang a wolf, likewise.

But by every hedgehog in yonder wood, I swear we'll oft find Lover where we thought to find wolf, oft Wolf where we ought to find lover, and more often innocent instead of either.

The wisest suggestions can be the largest mistakes. There's no such thing as concentrating on lovers or wolves. Nor even as concentrating on lovers and wolves. Some will wrong and some be wronged.

And the innocent will be throttled, inevitably, as Nilp was. So this is a futile discussion over hypothetical catches in a wide and hostile realm of possibilities.

I go to slay a boar and drink its blood. Mead lacks in hard times, but boar's blood never lets a man down.

[Anguirel]

It cannot be stressed enough, Eonwe, wayfaring stranger-if one Lover dies, the other perishes too. Twould be sad were it not so twisted...

[Eonwe]

Indeed, well said, Ang. You put my points most sucinctly.

Guy Who Be Short, is of course, baffling me. I have my suspicions as to his motives, but I will withhold them until I deem the time right.

Edit and cross posted: Ah-ha, now we have the full truth. So one dies when the other dies, very interesting.

[Garin]

Ah-ha, now we have the full truth. So one dies when the other dies, very interesting.

Thanks for finally doing your homework. Thusly, killing either lovers would benefit us because we would be down one wolf, one innocent but still up two seers.

Sounds good to me.

[Eonwe]

Thanks for finally doing your homework.

Did I mention I was a lazy way-faring stranger? Coincidentally, I just copied Ang's... :p

[Kath]

Garin, even if both Lovers die if one is killed, it is still better to go after the wolvish Lover than the innocent one, as there is a higher chance of finding that one. Also, I didn't understand the two Seers comment, why should they be affected?

[Formendacil]

Hmm....

How does one post posts of sustantial content on Day 1? Unless someone is foolish enough to make some major slipups (and that's unlikely in a village this experienced), there is no reason as yet to start jumping on people's cases. Glirdan, for example, is chronically known to overreact to accusations. Until another day has passed and we see the death of another of our number, there is no point or reason to trying to analyze each other's votes. All we can do is make a lot of senseless noise, post a vote, and then move on to the Night....

Or one can post suggestions about how to make Day 1 more useful and helpful. Quite frankly, I have nothing in common with such suggestors. A look over my Day 1 record will reveal a good deal of irreverence on them. I'm not, by and large, inclined to take them overly seriously.

Of course, I must at some point in this Day vote. Here's my list of candidates:

dancing spawn of ungoliant: With a name like that she's probably evil, and ought to be killed, but her being Nilp's paramour and all, I think that, on this day of mourning at least, I shall give her a bye.
Kath: Perenially suspicious, typically an Ordo- typically quiet. We may as well lynch her and have done with it.
Lhunardawen: Dear little sis... Like one Eomer of the Rohirrim I cannot vote for thee so soon, and with no reason. But think not that mine brotherly ways shall save thee if a Wolf thou art!
Caranlondien: A newcomer to this realm. I'll let her have a full day at it rather than casting my random vote at the newbie.
tar-ancalime: A witch, and a history of being a Werewolf. A tempting vote, if only to be safe...
Cailín: Always a suspicious player, but so typically an Ordo (but not always...). Not crossing her off as the "recipionist" of my vote today.
Celuien: A frog and a psychiatrist? Typically Ordo, though...
Naria: Always vaguely suspicious. One is inclined to vote her off just to clear the waters a little.
Valier: Suspicious this one can be, but transparent is more accurate, I'd say- a transparency that some paranoid players translate into suspicion. She'll not get my vote- today.
Lalaith: The epitome of the quiet wolf- if she is one. Otherwise, seems fated to be an ordo. Killing her may be advisable just to make sure she's not a Wolf again...
Thinlómien: Don't know her playing style well. I'll leave her be this day, at least.
Garin: His playing style begs suspicion- always and everytime. And his track record's not so good either (two out three times as a Wolf- I think?). A consideration...
Formendacil: Unless I did a Nilp, this would not even be a consideration, and since doing a Nilp has already been done, I clearly can't do that. Too easily misconstrued as a cop-out.
littlemanpoet: Verbal, noisy, and confident player, but not one to be stereotyped as an Ordo. I'll pass him by today if only to keep his keen brain around.
Glirdan: As previously mentioned, he's perennially jumpy. Looks completely normal thus far. No vote from me...
Farael: Why do I suspect him of developing an SPM-complex, of "Never having been a Wolf, so must be an Ordo"? He's a possibility for the random vote...
Anguirel: Typically a very keen player, one the Wolves should fear. I see no reason to think him anything but an innocent- save maybe that he's being a bit more helpful than he usually does on Day 1. Not enough reason to receive my random vote, that.
Eomer: With his wolfing record, he'd be a possibility for today even if I was Seering Partner with him. Definitely a possibility.
Gurthang: Been an innocent all the times I've played with him, but Gurthang does tend to attract suspicion. Too early to say...
the guy who be short: Don't trust anything this Guy says, unless he's given a clear bill of non-Wolfishness by a Seer- then listen to everything he says.
SamwiseGamgee: Never played with him before. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for today...

So, that leaves me with Kath, Tar-Ancalime, Cailín, Celuien, Naria, Lalaith, Garin, Farael, Eomer, Gurthang, and TGWBS- more than enough people to be going on with for a Day 1. No real suspicions here, just reasons ever so slightly better than the people crossed off the list.

I shall return.

[Anguirel]

But, Garin, I must stress that killing a Lover specifically, rather than a wolf, is bound to be a matter of chance, and so in terms of strategy, it is probably wiser to defend ourselves with well-trained warrior ferrets.

This village is a snakepit with a few gold and silver ingots in it. If you plunge in your hand and emerge unharmed with a silver ingot, are you really likely to complain that you didn't get a gold one?

Really, Garin, if I didn't know it was just like you, I'd think this stubbornness of yours to prolong debate over a barren issue was most suspicious...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My defence of Lhuna was overdue, for everytime in the game of Werewolf I attack her with wolvish ways.

Probability dictates that she is finally a werewolf now...but I'm willing to play along. :p

Nothing much interesting has happened yet, apart from TGWBS and Garin's votes for themselves. Could be wolvish attempts to hide but I'm inclined to leave them for the moment.

They might be pursuing a strategy. At least, their behaviour might tell us something

This is my strategy: I will not explain it just now, I will merely hope that at least a few other villagers will understand what I'm trying to do.

See how it's followed up, you know?

++LITTLEMANPOET

Probably quite a dangerous thing to do, but apart from my royal ways (and my magnificent skill with music and singing and arts in general; as well as my pleasant demeanour and delightful good looks) I'm expendable.

Just....don't think this is too weird, ok? Think about what I'm doing and what it could do for the village.

And good night! Let's catch a wolf.

[littlemanpoet]

Ah. LMP, my axe had forgotten about you...

I'm tempted to accuse you at once, but auld lang syne works better as a last minute swing than as the foundation for a denunciation.

Still, stone-cutter, I'm not a-liking your arbitrating tone of voice. ..
A thousand pardons, my dear crazy man. I seek no quarrel with you. Let us be after the werewolves instead of each other, what say?

[littlemanpoet]

This is my strategy: I will not explain it just now, I will merely hope that at least a few other villagers will understand what I'm trying to do.

See how it's followed up, you know?

++LITTLEMANPOET
If you feel you must. 'Twould be a shame if it backfired...

[Anguirel]

You mortally insult me, churl. But I don't trust the harper who accuses ye one bit, so I shall continue to remain aloof, with the backing of my uncle the North Wind.

[Farael]

Alright, here I am. And here are my first day ramblings

TGWBS YOU DESERVE TO DIE. It was MY act, MY time to shine by being Nilp.... but no, you just had to take it, hadn't you?

Still, I believe you innocent, you are just playing your role... and as a matter of fact, I was looking forward to send the village on a spin of confussion by playing out my own role

Which brings us to suicidal maniac number two

Garin, smart wolvish Garin.... you know that the best way to get past day one is to pull a Nilp or a Farael.... namely, either vote for yourself or go to strong against someone at random (hopefully a wolf, as it happened with a wolf called Aiwendil.... or so the histroy books say). Both strategies will make you look pretty innocent, at least during the first few very random days. I shall not vote for you right now, Garin the very likely wolf, at least until I have heard some more from the rest of the village. Having said that, there is one last individual that concerns me greatly

The varmint claims to have disguised a were-army of hedgehogs under green shells and hidden them in a turtle farm. What d'ye have to say to that, Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat Wandering Horde? Ha ha!

Now, this is highly suspicious. Here comes Anguirel, being all random and accuses Kath of being involved with a were-army. Now, you all know my reputation of grasping at straws and making unreasonable cases against... PEOPLE WHO TURN OUT TO BE WOLVES.... and so, here I go again. My first read of this was "Hmmm, Anguirel is one of the seers and he has caught a wolf, so he's leaving a hint that it will be pretty evident once he's dead" But then I realized.... the 'hint' is pretty evident now and he's still alive!! Furthermore, what are the odds of a seer catching a wolf on the first night? one in twenty? and why choose Kath? There are sure more dangerous *ahemLMP-Formendacil-Anguirel himselfahem*individuals. (no offense meant Kath)

Thus, I must conclude that to me, Anguirel's behaviour is that of a wolf hinting at giftedness.... and then over-acting his "randomness" so that if the seers come out he'd be able to say "Well no, I was just being random... day 1 you know"

Anguirel, I believe you are smart and cunning enough to do something like that. But I won't let you. Be aware.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I see your game, Eomer, but I shall err on the side of caution for the moment.

Let me right now, in front of all the village, point out that my comments on Cailin were merely suspicions, not accusations, and were made at a time when there was nothing much happening really. Later posts were an attempt to clarify, that's all.

Farael I shall disagree with you. I think Ang is keen and looking to the greater good of the village. And if in your mind you're thinking 'May be gifted' don't vote, not on day one- that would be folly.

[Farael]

I beg to differ, Master Gamgee as I don't think Anguirel IS gifted.... that was my first impression, but it has changed since then. That's exactly what Anguiel-the-one-who-may-or-maynot-be-a-wolf is aiming at.... when in doubt, don't risk going for a possible gifted. Of course, he will say "oh, no... I'm not gifted at all" and then proceed to send another of his "hints".... that way he will keep us doubting long enough. You are playing right into his hand.... is there anything you would like to tell us, mister hobbit? maybe not only your feet are furry, eh?

[Garin]

Kath: The two seers comment explained. Even if we kill an innocent lover we'll have three wolves versus two seers at that point. I like our (meaning villagers) chances, if that is the case.

I am inclined to trust Anguirel at this point but I am not flogging a dead issue as long as others continue to talk about it.

Killing the innocent lover would be the same as a double lynching. In those cases we can only hope to kill at least one wolf.

BUT YES, we should concentrate on the lupines and not this star-crossed lover.

"Who are the wolves? A show of hands please...."

EDIT: "paws please...."

[SamwiseGamgee]

It's a fair point well taken, Farael. As Garin, I'm inclined to believe Ang and let sleeping dogs lie. As for my hair growth, good sir, that is something which only my good lady wife shall ever know! :p

[Kath]

Well now this presents a problem. Having not seen Garin's reply til just now I was quite prepared to vote for him over that Seer comment, but yet again it was my misunderstanding that was causing all the problems :rolleyes:

But, this means I have about 3 minutes before I have to put the turtles to bed (I won't be back again toDay) and no genuine suspect. I don't want to be purely random as that will be no help to anyone. Therefore I shall vote

++EOMER

Because (though I think this is repeating a past argument) if he's a wolf then better to get rid of him now, and if he's an innocent we won't be worrying about whether he's a wolf for the rest of the game! A hedging your bets argument it is I'll admit, but it's all I have.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well I must head to slumberland right now, but I hope to be back before night falls. I would vote now and get myself an extra hour in bed, but I just can't justify voting for anyone at the moment. What a curse has befallen us, fellow villagers. Oh, angst!

[Garin]

Hello..

You Wolves haven't raised your paws yet!!???!!
Times a' wasting.
Sometime today please.

Kath, we seem to be on permanently different wavelengths, thanks for allowing me to counter and explain my statement.

No, I ain't no wolf and am dumbfounded as to why anyone would think such a thing .

My suicidal bid was an emotional one and I didn't allow myself to recover properly from The Guy's declaration. I am still baffled and I suppose we should see it to fruition or be forever tortured by "what ifs?'.

Call it Nilp (RIP) fever, because it felt like an illness.

[tar-ancalime]

It appears I'm the last to arrive.

I seem to missed out on most of the Day 1 sad hurlyburly, and can step back to comment on what I've seen so far.

First, Farael:

Alright, here I am. And here are my first day ramblings

TGWBS YOU DESERVE TO DIE. It was MY act, MY time to shine by being Nilp.... but no, you just had to take it, hadn't you?

Still, I believe you innocent, you are just playing your role... and as a matter of fact, I was looking forward to send the village on a spin of confussion by playing out my own role

It's the "spin of confusion" that bothers me. There are three groups of people in this game with three distinct goals:

The wolves want to feast on fresh villager meat.

The innocents want to escape from the horrible fate that awaits us if we don't kill the wolves.

The lovers want to be united in a bloody wedding when everyone else is dead.

Which of these teams benefits most from a "spin of confusion?" I can tell you, it ain't the villagers. I don't know if you're a wolf or not, Farael, but if you're an innocent villager then your goal shouldn't be to create confusion for the other villagers. We're the only ones without some kind of special information--the only ones you'd be confusing are the innocent. I'm tempted to vote for you just for that comment and the suspicion I have that you'll follow it up.

Anyone who thinks it will be more fun to confuse people than to catch werewolves isn't an asset to this village. Even if his role is "innocent." Call me cold-blooded, but if you ain't with us, you're agin us.

Having gotten in trouble in the past for laying out suspicions in strong language and then voting elsewhere, I think I"d better follow through this time:

++Farael

[Garin]

Bravo Tar!

I try to avoid retribution votes but saw abnormalities in Farael's posts.

I know it he hasn't voted for me but he pretty much declared me a wolf.

Nice to see the votes spread out.

Edit :
Samwise:As Garin, I'm inclined to believe Ang and let sleeping dogs lie.

I'm assuming you meant "as for Garin" and thanks for the slight vote of confidence but in this scenario I could use a better analogy than 'let sleeping dogs lie.'

No hard feelings. YET>

I'll prove to be more of a cat person.

[tar-ancalime]

Bravo Tar!

Garin approves of me. Should I be worried?

[Garin]

Garin approves of me. Should I be worried?

No.
Rest at ease, because my death will unveil many truths including the one that I am but an ordinary.

If you are a werewolf... I extend the 'rot in hell' greeting to you that I extend to all lupines.

Unfortunately, in RL I am actually a werewolf so this role-playing deal is quite taxing to me.

However, It keeps me occupied.

[Glirdan]

Alright, here I am. And here are my first day ramblings

TGWBS YOU DESERVE TO DIE. It was MY act, MY time to shine by being Nilp.... but no, you just had to take it, hadn't you?

Still, I believe you innocent, you are just playing your role... and as a matter of fact, I was looking forward to send the village on a spin of confussion by playing out my own role

Unfortunately, I don't think (as some others seem to believe) that there is anything seriously wrong with this post of Farael's. I'm sure you know what he means by his role and if not, let me clarify because it is so blantantly(sp?) obvious of what he actually is speaking of: his occupation. As for the TGWBS dieing bit, well, I think he was just upset that shorty took the one thing he wanted to do all this game: take Nilp's suicidal act. Reason being? Well, my belief is that he probably idolizes our dear Prophet. I'm sorry, but so far, I don't see anything really worrying here.

However, I am now leaning towards a wolfish Garin. As tar just said, and I quote:

Garin approves of me. Should I be worried?

Now, you ask why I'm quoting this? Well, Garin apprving of tar's vote could be his way of hiding behind an innocent. What I mean to say is that if we were to lynch tar toDay, we would look back and possibly overlook Garin for approving of tar's vote. However, I to agree with tar that Farael wanting to cause confusion amongst us is rather...disturbing. Even though I'm pretty sure that's not Farael's attempt and that's why I'm inclined to believe Farael innocent.

Unfortunately, in RL I am actually a werewolf so this role-playing deal is quite taxing to me.(Garin)

To quote our dear Prophet:

'All out-of-character comments, regarding absences, discussion of rules, usw, must be placed in the original Tol-in-Gaurhoth thread.

[Garin]

Call off your dogs Glirdan and don't go about quoting the rules to me. I voted to have myself lynched so please let me step off this mortal coil if you find it worth your time.
Only a wolf will find it satisfactory.
Please vote for me if you have any suspicion.
I still prefer to die by the wolves paws/claws.
I have many ideas that can service the village.
No
That is not a Seer hint.

EDIT: In quoting rules... do you actually think I am an actual Lycanthrope? Sorry to bring up RL, but seriously....

[Celuien]

You're telling me. Celuien isn't going to be much help in catching wolves I fear...she's going to be hard-pressed keeping up with the work-load.

Tell me about it. So many suicidal types out and about. TGWBS? Garin? That's a new one. And Ang has some new delusions, I see. Hedgehogs? Fortunately, his mind seems to have cleared since this morning. Add the increased work load to my own Chronic Dyssynchronicity Syndrome (CDS)* and it's quite a challenge to keep up, I fear.

I see that Valier and TGWBS have been accused of having a little secret. I find it unlikely. Open hints, while possibly protecting them from the village (thinking we would find it too obvious a bluff and excuse them) would be a dead giveway to the wolf/lover's wolvish 'allies.' And the wolves would have no hesitation about ridding themselves of their betrayer by killing the ordo/sweetie by night. A possible bold bluff by a wolf-wolf pair, yes. But not a declaration by the real couple. I'm inclined to think them innocent, since such a strategy would be a very bold move for day 1 wolves, but will be closely watching both.

Eomer has also been acting a bit off, though not in a psychiatric way.
This is my strategy: I will not explain it just now, I will merely hope that at least a few other villagers will understand what I'm trying to do.
I don't, but I want time to figure it out. So no vote for Eomer.

Alas, that's all for now. I'll be back in a couple of hours with some more thoughts and probably a vote.

*aka Time Zone Disease

[Glirdan]

EDIT: In quoting rules... do you actually think I am an actual Lycanthrope? Sorry to bring up RL, but seriously....

Of course I don't. I know, I'm being very contradictive and probably confusing with that, so, you know what, completely forget I ever said that. I was kind of not myself at the time.

Call off your dogs Glirdan and don't go about quoting the rules to me. I voted to have myself lynched so please let me step off this mortal coil if you find it worth your time.
Only a wolf will find it satisfactory.
Please vote for me if you have any suspicion.
I still prefer to die by the wolves paws/claws.
I have many ideas that can service the village.
No
That is not a Seer hint.

You're telling me to call off my dogs. What's with the strong defense? I'm trying to bring up topics of discussion as well as trying to weed out the Wolves and attacking people, even if it does put you in major danger, is one of the best ways to do it. Take it from me. Even though it's been a curse to my kin in other villages, it's worked.

[Celuien]

Hmmm. Garin is being awfully, awfully defensive. Especially after a suicidal vote. Wolf or ordo in need of a stay at my psych ward? I'm not certain.

As for some of the rest, just a brief comment or two:
Formendacil - not suspicious. Helpful.
littlemanpoet - good thoughts from elempi. Don't suspect him.
Glirdan - another one I don't suspect now.
Farael - makes statement about wanting to cause confusion. But given his long history (his record takes its own filing cabinet), I'll give him a pass for now.
Anguirel - interesting analysis, helpful. Not apparently lupine. But please Ang, keep your next appointment. :p
Eomer - I think I get the (risky!) plan now. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
the guy who be short - odd, suicidal, but I think most likely in character
Eonwe - interesting ideas. Not suspicious.
SamwiseGamgee - analytic, helpful. Not suspicious.
Gurthang - likewise. Non-suspicious.

Such a big village. My fingers are tired. And I do need some sleep before going to work tomorrow. Really, all of you in this village are going to make me require my own services. :p

Coffee-break.

[littlemanpoet]

...please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. Lalaith - 1 (by Cailin)
2. Guy - 1 (by Guy) :rolleyes:
3. Garin - 1 (by Garin)
4. Guy - 2 (by Lalaith)
5. LMP - 1 (by Eomer)
6. Eomer - 1 (by Kath)
7. Farael - 1 (by tar-ancalime)

That leaves 15 more votes to be cast, in the space of just over 6 hours, if I calculate the time accurately; there being so many non-East Indies types in this village, I find it surprising (and a little disconcerting) that more votes have not been cast.

Mulling.....

[Eonwe]

I'm voting, and then going to sleep. As I said in my opening post, I'm voting Garin and for no other reason than his placement on the list. Ha!

++Garin

The funny thing is, I started this bandwagon! Ha!

[Celuien]

Well, I do need to go now.

++GARIN

He looks the most suspicious to me at this point because of the self-vote followed by defensiveness when others start to think about voting for him afterward. It makes me think of a wolf who tried an suicidals-must-be-innocent strategy, then found it backfired.

Sorry if I'm wrong.

[Glirdan]

It's been rather quiet lately. I am going to hold my vote off as much as possible (for the next two hours at least) and wait to see if anything else turns up. If not, then my vote will probably go for Garin.

[littlemanpoet]

Could it be that the werewolves are holding out? Afraid to vote at this juncture because it looks so dangerous to do so? Obviously, that cannot be said for our East-Indies residents....at least not so indisputably...

The werewolves certainly are hiding well. Nobody has said anything that would incriminate themselves in any really serious fashion. More's the pity.

I wish I could stay up late enough to see how the werewolves incriminate themselves by their votes, because I doubt they've voted yet, unless Eomer is one. Or the ordo Lover. Quite unsure on that, but it's all hypothesis at this juncture.

Day One is indeed treacherous.

Vote for the person you most suspect, is the advice I usually follow. Well. That would be Eomer. It could be that he is playing a very subtle game of trying to do ....well ... what it looks like he might be trying to do (I'm not going to say what it is); on the other hand, he is known to be a very bold player, especially when gifted or lupine.

Knowing his status may be about the most useful thing that can be garnered out of Day One. Therefore....

++ Eomer

I wish I had more to go on......

[Farael]

Well, I know I shouldn't answer those who bring up doubts about me but... this one is just so silly I feel I must.

Do you see me sending the village on a spin of confusion? Really, if I am it's because some people don't understand how my brain works but... do you see me trying to distract from the task at hand by competing with TGWBS on our suicidal attempts?

As a matter of fact, the one who has done so is Garin. Now he says that it was a 'spur (or rather heat) of the moment' kind of thing.... I would vote for him, but I'm still concerned about Anguirel.... and unless I hear a plausible explanation from him on his not-so-subtle hint, I shall vote for the crazy guy who lives in the forest.

[Caranlondien]

Oh dear, oh dear, I fear I'm suspicious of everyone! (Celuien , may I schedule an appointment to discuss my persecution complex ?) :D

Sorry I don't have much insight to offer right now. Clearly Garin is looking suspicious for his self-vote and for his defensiveness (although that may have been sincere). But that's just stating the obvious.

I shall refrain from voting until I must, in case anything else happens...

What a nervous business this is; I prefer felling trees to lynching villagers!

[Garin]

I can see our departed prophet drooling as my fate is sealed.

100% baby.

Many of you will have plenty to answer to in the morn' if my fate is sealed.

I'm sorry that many of you have failed to read between the lines, but I am the lead amongst you batch of morons.

I can offer great assistance to the village if I am saved because I see wolves in the mix, I also see a seer or two but I prefer to see their precious lives stand anonymous.

What I did was definitely in the "crazy enough to work" category because some of the wolves will see me as a safe vote.

Nonetheless, I suspect we will will smoke out some wolves today.

[Glirdan]

Here are the votes thus far:

Lalaith - 1(Cailin)
TGWBS - 1 (TGWBS)
Garin - 1 (Garin)
TGWBS - 2 (TGWBS, Lalaith)
Lmp - 1 (Eomer)
Eomer - 1 (Kath)
Farael - 1 (tar)
Garin - 2 (Garin, Eonwe)
Garin - 3 (Garin, Eonwe, Celuien)
Eomer - 2 (Kath, Lmp)

Well, the votes are spread to say the least, but I'm afraid that Garin's probably right, his fate is sealed. However, there is still a lot of other people who have yet to vote, so I'm probably wrong on this.

++Garin

I will stick around for a little while longer, then I'm off to my little hut thank you very much.

[Gurthang]

First off, voting:

Garin - IIII
TGWBS - II
Eomer - II
Lalaith - I
LMP - I
Farael - I


Glirdan, what you just did and said made no sense to me whatsoever. Care to explain?

I fear I must abandon everything that I said earlier... for now at least. I'm seeing a lot of things that could be seer hints, and I want to get those resolved before I do anything else. I'm suspicious of Kath, LMP, Eomer, Formendacil, and Anguriel in connection with these (might be) hints. Of those, I think that the first three are more worthy of looking into.

I think it's strange that littlemanpoet and Eomer traded votes, and almost even more strange that Kath 'joined' LMP against Eomer. I am less suspicious (out of these three) of Eomer because he was the first to vote, and for the fact that both of the others gave him a vote.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is something between LMP and Eomer. I don't know where Kath fits in, or if she does at all, but littlemanpoet is my top suspect right now and will likely receive my vote.

With that in mind, I beg you all to stop this Garin bandwagon. I don't know if he's a wolf or not, and I might vote for him one of these Days, but I really think this seer business needs looking into. So, if you trust me at all (unlikely), vote for Kath, Eomer, or preferably, littlemanpoet.

[Garin]

Garin = Wolf Catnip

Wolfnip, I suppose.


Gurthang, I am afraid your wisdom might fall on deaf ears.

Glirdan's apologetic vote for me will indeed be met with suspicion in the days to come.

Smoking out the wolves.

You are welcome village.

[Glirdan]

Firstly...

Glirdan's apologetic vote for me will indeed be met with suspicion in the days to come.(Garin)

Who's says I'm being apologetic. I've been planning on voting for you for awhile now in case you haven't been paying attention.

Glirdan, what you just did and said made no sense to me whatsoever. Care to explain?(Gurth)

Ok, I voted for Garin because I've been meaning to for quite some time now. But then I realised that when I agreed with him that his fate is probably sealed, I realised that there were still quite a few other people that have to vote and that he may not get lynched toDay. Hope that clears things up for you.

[Garin]

fare thee well, wolf

[Garin]

For all of those on the proper side of the Atlantic and those night owls on the other side, you still have 3 and a half hours Limey Time.

Do the right thing.

We can win this thing.

EDIT: I mean GMT...

[Glirdan]

Well, it is time for me to retire. May we find a Wolf toDay my fellow Villagers. Goodnight!!

[Farael]

Well, it's almost midnight over here and I don't want the first thing I do on my b-day to be casting a vote for Werewolf thus....

++Anguriel

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I can't believe a true seer would be so careless.... and I don't think it was JUST roleplaying, the choice of words was too strong.

[Naria]

I will also be heading off to slumber-land right away so I must cast my vote now.

I am tempted to vote for Garin as to the way that he has been acting and responding toDAY, but I think that he has reverted back to the way that he has always played and therefore will not be voting for him toDAY. If he is not lynched toDAY(highly unlikely) I will see in the following DAYs if my opinion changes about him.

I do find Shorty's vote for himself, for lack of a better word, stupid(or maybe there is a better word ?). If he wants to be a Nilp than I will have to vote for him, as that is what I would do on the first DAY if it were Nilp. :p :)


++TGWBS

[Garin]

Happy Birthday Farael!
Later days my friends.

[Garin]

Nice safe non-commital vote Farael, I imagine I will awake a dead man but the village will be that much wiser.

I must slumber now, and shall say good night to all.

...and good luck.

[Farael]

Nice safe non-commital vote Farael, I imagine I will awake a dead man but the village will be that much wiser.

I must slumber now, and shall say good night to all.

...and good luck.

Those who know me, know that I stick with my instincts at least until I have something more solid to go on with... and would you rather have me vote for you and make the slight odds of you surviving even slighter?

[Garin]

No hard feelings Farael.

[Caranlondien]

Hmm, I must vote soon.

I tend to think that Garin is innocent. I keep going over his reactions, and they seem genuine to me. Maybe I'm being completely fooled...

I doubt my vote will make a significant impact here, but I've felt suspicious of Anguirel for a while now. He talks a great deal, but I can't see that he's contributed much of substance to the conversation. Says much while still saying little; the markings of a wolf?

I'll join with Farael's vote:

++ Anguirel

[Valier]

Since all this days bantering and arguing has left me confused, my vote shall be for a person I deem most suspisious.

++Glirdan

This may be taken at face value today I must admit my vote is some what hasty and safe. I do not take first day accusations as seriously until later, when some thing can be made of them.

Unemployed villagers can be of little help *smiles sweetly* I swear I just have no idea today. Tah and Hope we lynch a wolf with all this campanigning and not a loudmouth innocent!

[Lhunardawen]

Oh dear...the Day's ending!

Sorry about that, fellow villagers...I was swamped with schoolwork and more schoolwork and couldn't give heed to the more pressing need to save our village. Please let me go back through the discussions before I cast my vote. I surely wouldn't want voting for an innocent toDay, but the odds are against me...well, must do my best. For our prophet!

I'll be back.

[Thinlómien]

Reading the thread through took me half an hour so I won't have much time to discuss.

I was very inclined to think Garin as a wolf, but after considering it a bit, I won't say so. If he was a newbie, I would say he's a wolf. But being that experienced as he is, I won't say so. He should be able to see the foolishness of his acts. But, on the other hand why would an ordo use the tactic? To get attention and not to get bored, maybe a bit disappointed about being ordo. A seer? A seer wouldn't risk himself knowing he's important to the village. Same goes with ranger. They are more responsible. A lover? Why would he want to try doom not only himself, but his precious lover too? Not likely. So either Garin is a wolf or a lover playing dangerously to get himself out of suspicion or then he is an villager trying to amuse himself.

(This is my posting style, Form, I can tell you: considering all sides off the issues I call it, those who doubt me call it flip-floppy.)

EDIT: xposted with Lhuna, though that doesn't probably matter

[Anguirel]

Well. Thank goodness I got up early to cast a vote at a very late stage.

Hmmm. Garin, whether innocent or guilty, is being lynched, not for any cogent reason, but because he's Garin. I'd really rather not have that. Village of fools!

But the other feasible options seem to be the suicidal Guy-again, folly-or possibly me, or Eomer.

I'd like to vote for Glirdan because the ermine lords of the forest paths tell me he just acted in a very obvious way to seal Garin's fate. But again, I don't think it's feasible.

Lhuna and Thinlomien-are you about? We must all vote together if we wish to save Garin.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Three pages... *sigh*

I'll be back soon.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here and will leave in ten minutes. And I'm not sure if I wish to save Garin.

[Anguirel]

Just don't vote against the poor madman, alright? My forest instincts tell me that that way lies a grievous mistake. Wolf-Garin is much more in control and would never vote for himself anyway...

And then my axe naturally wings to the defence of the underdog...

[Thinlómien]

I might be able to come back before the voting time (I have a lesson in computer classroom) but I wouldn't count on it.

I'm not sure if I'm going to vote one of my feeble suspects or someone to save Garin. However, all the people in your (Ang's) list I hold as suspicious as Garin, some even less. I don't know if it's a bad thing that Garin goes. He might be a wolf.

EDIT: x-posted with Ang

[Thinlómien]

It seems whatever I do, I'm taking sides.

So I go and vote

++Glirdan

There's something wrong with him. I can't explain what, actually, but something in his style. I don't have time to analyse, but I will do it next Day, if I'm still alive.

[Anguirel]

Well...that's very tempting. And you know, I think I'll give in to tempation-perhaps Lhuna and Spawn will support us yet.

Glirdan's vote is plodding and dangerously obvious. He is being unusually loud as well, not that that's a bad thing. But all in all, I fear we have one of the Four here. Look at some of those more ludicrous accusations against Garin-hair-splitting and specious, aye, so whisper the martingales.

Taste the noose, wolf!

++GLIRDAN

[tar-ancalime]

Originally posted by Glirdan:

Unfortunately, I don't think (as some others seem to believe) that there is anything seriously wrong with this post of Farael's. I'm sure you know what he means by his role and if not, let me clarify because it is so blantantly(sp?) obvious of what he actually is speaking of: his occupation. As for the TGWBS dieing bit, well, I think he was just upset that shorty took the one thing he wanted to do all this game: take Nilp's suicidal act. Reason being? Well, my belief is that he probably idolizes our dear Prophet. I'm sorry, but so far, I don't see anything really worrying here.

As this seems to be directed at me, I'll respond.

Yes, I know he was talking about his occupation.

Yes, I understand that "shorty took the one thing he wanted to do all this game."

This is what bothers me. IF he's innocent, the one thing he can do for the village is to help find the werewolves. Playing a suicidal game for his own personal amusement helps no one; also, tgwbs's doing it doesn't preclude anyone else from following suit, as Garin has ably demonstrated.

[Lhunardawen]

What a dilemma!

I feel that both Garin and Glirdan are innocent, just completely misled. I feel the sincerity in their posts, and I know that all the jumpiness is only normal. And what a pity that these two villagers who seem eager to help the village would attack each other!

Two other people stood out for me toDay: Lalaith, Naria, and Eonwe.

I expected more from Lalaith than to jump into voting for tgwbs. Maybe it's because I think tgwbs is just being faithful to his role, a stupid thing to do though it is to vote for oneself. I didn't think anyone would just fall for it again like that. Plus, if she thought the suicide outbreak odd, why encourage the virus?

Ditto for Naria.

Eonwe's been making at least some sense early on during the Day, but that vote for Garin and the way he cast it sent shivers up my spine. It's not helping the village at all, starting bandwagons casually like that. It might be too blatantly suspicious for a wolf to do, but I'm just really uneasy about it.

I can't vote for someone I don't really suspect, even if it means a likely innocent will die if I don't. Oh, I feel so helpless. dancing spawn, are you still there?

[Formendacil]

What have I missed?

Oh, more Day 1 nonsense... Well, that's not a problem...

Seriously, 'twas my plan to be on earlier, but I was foiled by a dastardly slow pizza driver, a bevy of college students, and a couple of Peruvian Llamas (well, not the Peruvian Llamas...).

Anyway, I'm back. Before the deadline too, although I should probably be looking at casting a vote...

So, let's see, if I read things aright, the votes stand as follows:

Garin - IIII
TGWBS - III
Eomer - II
Lalaith - I
LMP - I
Farael - I
Anguirel - II
Glirdan - III

Even if I haven't got it right, that's close enough...

So, my list from earlier, if I be intending to follow it, automatically excludes LMP, and... erm... no one else. Well, one down, seven to go before I find my self a vote-worthy candidate.

Garin, it seems to me, ought to be saved. As the Mod of his first game, I take an almost fatherly eye to his Tol-in-Gaurhoth career, and I must say that he seems to be playing perfectly to form.

Alas, though, that Glirdan and TGWBS are the next down the line... Glirdan also seems to be playing perfectly normally, and I'm always hesitant to vote for someone who's voted for themself- and TGWBS is, on the face of things, a very valuable player to whichever team he is on, and on the 70% or so chance that he's on the village team rather than the Werewolf one, I'd rather no lynch him just yet.

Alas, though, I have little choice if I want to save Garin. Old players will know that I judge players by how "normal" their playing style is, and both Garin and Glirdan seem completely normal.

++ The Guy Who Be Short, most regretably...

And I can but hope that Lhuna or some other late voter (IS there another voter as yet unvoted) will break the tie...

EDIT: Crossposted with a whack of people...

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well, here's the list:

Garin: 4
TGWBS: 4
Glirdan: 3
Eomer: 2
Anguriel: 2
Lalaith: 1
LMP: 1
Farael: 1

Garin, you picked me up on what you thought to be an error, but you presumed wrong. I did mean 'As Garin...', perhaps if I write it 'As per Garin...' you'll see. Whilst your pointing out my (wrongly) prseumed English errors is deeply annoying, it's not enough to make me vote for you: I think you're just being yourself! :D

Now, who's this bank manager going to vote for? Well, I would vote for Glirdan, but that'd put us in a double lynch situation. My reason for voting for him would have been that he cast a very suspicious, somewhat bandwagony post with no real reason for it. But I'm still stuck. Oh, dear! And now we are in a double lynch scenario! Woe, Form!

[Lhunardawen]

This could possibly put me in trouble if Garin's found indeed innocent, but I have to make a stand. I'm so sorry, Garin...

++LALAITH

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, I don't find any of those with the most votes very suspicious now. I shall take a moment to ponder the voting.

Cailín's vote is based on occupations. Can't tell much of it.

TGWBS' vote is based on occupations. Can't tell much of it.

Garin votes for himself in order to honour Nilp. I have no idea why he does that because later he says: "I am actually not sure what came over me, I've always held the suicidal with great contempt." A bluff? In any case, that's not very helpful a thing to do.

Lalaith votes TGWBS because he had suggested that people would do that. A somewhat safe vote which could be regarded as suspicious because her vote is based on occupations. "This copy-cat suicide outbreak seems very odd to me, anyhow." ~Lalaith

Eomer's vote is based on some master plan that I don't have time to try to understand now, so I can't tell much of it.

Kath's vote seems somewhat weird.Because (though I think this is repeating a past argument) if he's a wolf then better to get rid of him now, and if he's an innocent we won't be worrying about whether he's a wolf for the rest of the game! A hedging your bets argument it is I'll admit, but it's all I have. As she admits, she repeats almost exactly the same words as tar-a in her past life. That reasoning got her in a bit of trouble then, but she turned out to be an innocent. Something in Kath's voting feels funny especially because if Eomer is innocent, it's good to keep him around.

tar-a's vote is probably one of the best reasoned toDay although I disagree with her.

Eonwe... Well... "I'm voting Garin and for no other reason than his placement on the list. Ha!" "The funny thing is, I started this bandwagon! Ha!" ~Eonwe
Right. I don't know why he's so cheerful and wants the 'credit' of the Garin 'bandwagon' for himself. Anyway, his reasons aren't very impressive.

Celuien's vote is reasoned, too. Doesn't look suspicious.

lmp's vote for Eomer may be a bit better reasoned than Kath's, but I don't know what to think of the fact that Eomer and lmp voted for each other like that. Maybe it's part of the 'master plan' that I didn't get yet.

Glirdan first had some kind of debate with Garin, but I'm not sure if the debate is the reason for his vote. "Well, the votes are spread to say the least, but I'm afraid that Garin's probably right, his fate is sealed. However, there is still a lot of other people who have yet to vote, so I'm probably wrong on this." ~Glirdan
I don't know what to think of this, but otherwise he has been acting like I would have assumed.

Farael votes for Anguirel because he thinks that Anguirel is a wolf faking to be a Seer? Farael's acting like I would have assumed, too, although I disagree with him. In any case, Happy Birthday! :)

Naria's behaviour seems typical for her although I don't like it. A safe vote with practically no reasons at all.

Caranlondien gives reasons for her vote. Good. Doesn't appear suspicious now.

Valier says that she votes for Glirdan because he seems most suspicious to her toDay, but she doesn't really give reasons why. Can't tell much of this vote.

I shall vote in a few minutes.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I can't let this happen. I don't think either of our top-vote candidates guilty, but now that we're in double-lynch territory I feel we need to get out. So, on the basis that he has confused me more than TGWBS, and confusion breeds suspicion etc:

++ GARIN

I'm sorry if you're innocent, but better two heads than one. :(

[Gurthang]

No time. Just got back.

++littlemanpoet

Hope I didn't miss anything important.

[Thinlómien]

I went through Glirdan's post and didn't find anything particularly suspicious. Please don't follow my example. I believe he's innocent.

EDIT: xposted with Gurthang

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

What a dilemma!

I feel that both Garin and Glirdan are innocent, just completely misled. I feel the sincerity in their posts, and I know that all the jumpiness is only normal.Lhuna, you speak sense. I agree with your last post there, and I don't know whom to vote...

As the tie has now been taken care of, I'll vote

++Eonwe

because his reasons were just a bit too weird.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm sorry if you're innocent, but better two heads than one. Is this the kind of a wolvish slip that we're after? :D :p

[Gurthang]

Looks like the Prophet is late in arriving... (Oh, I can already hear Nilp starting off: "A Prophet is never late, nor is he early...")

Looks like Garin is going to be the one toNight. I can't say I'm excited about it, but I've got nothing to say he's innocent.

Tomorrow, I really hope to sort out all this seerness that I seem to keep coming across. I can't help but think that either Eomer or littlemanpoet are wolves, if not both.

[Formendacil]

Is this the kind of a wolvish slip that we're after? :D :p

Do wolves have two heads then? :p

That would explain why I can never spot them until about Day 3 or 4: I didn't know they had two heads!

Samwise: Don't worry, I get what you meant to say: one death is better than two (innocents, anyway). We won't lynch you on such meagre evidence. Today.

Maybe tomorrow...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Do wolves have two heads then? :p Well, at least they're double-faced, so yes, I assume. :D

[Formendacil]

Well, at least they're double-faced, so yes, I assume. :D

So the Roman god Janus was the patron of Werewolves then? Or just of Tol-in-Gaurhoth games in general?

Fascinating stuff, history- especially when you're making it up.

Well, good village, I'm off to bed. I shall see most of thee on the morrow, I hope and pray.

Elbereth be with you all!

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Suddenly, an angel appeared before the village, and said, 'Fear not, for I have come to end the DAY. But I have come late, for I have battled with the spirit of drowsiness and have just now won. The DAY will end now.'

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Two of the villagers, the guy who be short and Garin, honoured the memory of the dead Prophet by voting for themselves. the guy who be short went so far as to campaign for votes.

'Tch, politicians,' muttered Gurthang.

'Look at my sign!' said daga'y. 'It says "Flow!" I'm a Wolf! Lynch me!'

'He's trying to divert suspicion from himself,' Lalaith said. 'He's a Wolf! Lynch him!'

'Since he's taken the place of Nilp,' said Naria, 'and I always vote for Nilp on DAY 1, I shall vote for him.'

'Yes, yes!' cried the Nilp fan, stalker, and impersonator even more fervently. 'Lynch me!'

He had almost succeeded, but Garin stole his limelight with a more effective suicide technique, practised by generations of his kin and never having failed him once:

'I'm not a wolf, but I'll vote for myself in the memory of Nilp! But alas! what has come upon me! I hate suicidals, but I have always wanted to die. But I'm innocent! Alas! Nilp fever has come upon me!'

'Maybe I can help,' said the psychiatrist Celuien. 'But no. Let's lynch you.'

'But who shall perform caesarean for me now?!' cried the midwife.

'Don't look at me, I'm Caligula, not Julius!' answered Garin. Turning to the village, he exulted over his impending death:

'Oh, yeah! I'm batting a thousand, baby!'

And with that, the village threw lances at him, trying to pop him like the boil that they thought he was. But after his death no transformation took place. The village had killed one of their own.

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.
Garin, an Ordinary Villager, was lanced like a boil on the the first DAY.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Anguirel, a wood-madman
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

'I defy you, barbed demon of the woods!' said Anguirel to a rock. 'Taste my blade, hedgehog!'

Characteristically, the rock did not reply. But someone else did.

'Morituri non cogitant,' a voice whispered behind him.

'Who goes there?' the woodman cried. He turned and brandished his wood-axe. 'Show your face, craven!'

There was no response, save the rustling of leaves. Small shadows approached the madman of the woods. Small spined shadows.

'Ai! Ai! The hedgehogs! They have come to unfetter their chieftain! O azure warthog! lend me your tusks!'

He rushed at the hedgehogs, essaying to smite them all down. But the hedgehogs changed shape. They grew bigger, more sinewy; fangs grew out of their mouths. They had become were-hedgehogs.

'Ah! They have sent their most savage minions! I fear them not.'

There was a great battle. Anguirel's axe sang as he had slaughtered seventy of the were-hedgehogs. But outnumbered, he was soon spent. His axe left his hand as he sank to the ground, weary and wounded. The hedgehogs gloated as they rent his body and devoured his flesh.

Behind the trees, four vile voices laughed.

The scroll of the census was changed:

Nilpaurion Felagund, the Prophet of the Mod God, was lynched by suspicious means on the first NIGHT.
Garin, an Ordinary Villager, was lanced like a boil on the the first DAY.
Anguirel, an Ordinary Villager, was massacred by were-hedgehogs on the second NIGHT.

Those alive are:

dancing spawn of ungoliant, a laundress
Kath, a turtle-farmer
Lhunardawen, a Dark Elf (literally)
Caranlondien, a lumberjack
tar-ancalime, a witch
Cailín, the town gossip
Celuien, a psychiatrist
Naria, a midwife who goes ever so slightly mad with each birth
Valier, a small, sweet sheep-shearer
Lalaith, a rich young widow
Thinlómien, a mushroom-picker
Formendacil, an unemployed person
littlemanpoet, a stone-cutter
Glirdan, an unemployed person
Farael, an escaped mental asylum internee who suffers from chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
Eomer of the Rohirrim, the royal musician
Gurthang, an arrowsmith
the guy who be short, a Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator, also a fisherman
Eonwe, a wayfaring stranger
SamwiseGamgee, the town bank manager

[Gurthang]

Well, I was actually thinking that Anguirel's ramblings might be hiding some seer's hints. Thankfully, I was mistaken. Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

But I still say we need to figure out what is going on between Eomer and LMP before anything else.

[Cailín]

I have just had time to quickly read through last night's discussion (and poor Garin - again lynched as an innocent, it seems rather harsh) and there were a few things that immediately struck me.

The exchange of votes between littlemanpoet and Eomer of the Rohirrim.

Gurthang's reaction to that, which sadly triggered little response whatsoever, presumably because people were too preoccupied with Garin's bitterness.

I don't believe in Glirdan's guilt either.

Obviously, the wolves thought they had caught a Seer in poor Anguirel, which makes Kath look rather bad. The Seers could very well have decided to reveal a wolf as soon as they had found one - sacrificing one of them for the common good. However, Ang did not pursue Kath which he would have done if he knew she was in fact a wolf. Well, he's not a Seer, so it seems like a set-up. I don't find Kath very suspicious yet.

I really need to leave now. I shall return shortly (after failing my grammar midterm) and hopefully have more helpful contributions then.

[Lhunardawen]

I agree on both counts, Gurthang. I was afraid that Anguirel might have been an extremely bold Seer; thank the Mod God he isn't.

(He just celebrated his deathday...how fitting. :rolleyes: )

And I too am very curious to see how the Eomer-Elempi thing ends up.

Speaking of Elempi, I'm sorry sir for not making things clearer. To make up for it, I'll say that I think yesterDay's votes were spread too thin. And the fact that the threat of a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconcerting. Hopefully toDay the votes will be a bit more concentrated, as history shows us they tend to be. I think five to six sensible votees are good enough.

I'm still very much suspicious of Lalaith for her not very well-reasoned vote against tgwbs. As a matter of fact, I think I'll be questioning those who voted for him.

[Lalaith]

Oh, what a shame about our raving woodman. I shall miss him - rather unsporting of the wolves to kill him off so soon. I'm also surprised that they fell for the seer stuff, or maybe....
Still, this makes me want to look at Kath, as he mentioned her first, in very bold words, before she had every spoken.

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.
Some other thoughts this morning.
Firstly, a brief little defence of my vote yesterday, as it clearly worried both Spawn and Lhuna. No, Spawn, my vote was not occupation-based, I was simply perturbed by the suicidal voting. And Lhuna, I know enough of twgbs to believe him quite capable of a double-bluff, or even a triple-bluff.
But hey, a little suspicion on oneself is often a good thing, helps keep one from being eaten at night.


Now, on to more important matters. Two things have occurred to me.
Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

Also, I am bearing in mind that wolves can now PM each other during the day as well as the night. I think a discussion on how this could change wolf tactics might be useful, what do the rest of you think? And I would reiterate my point yesterday that I suspect the wolves will tackle the traitor problem by deciding to vote independently of each other.

Cailin, you said There are now five (and perhaps seven, but we cannot be sure) people who know more than the rest of us
How so? I make it a definite seven - four wolves, two seers and an ord lover. Where does the five come in? Has one of us got the wrong end of the stick?

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And finally....someone (Eonwe, I think) raised the question of whether the Lovers could win only together, or if they could also win individually as members of their own group (villagers or wolves). I believe the former is the case, but I'd like this clarified by our dead Prophet, too, please. (Lalaith)

The Law from the Mod God states:

The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

[tar-ancalime]

OK, I believe the technical term for this post is "ginormous." I haven't looked at today's posts yet so I apologize if we've already decided not to do this, but I've gone through yesterday's posts and summarized Anguirel's posts, as well as others' posts that mention him.

Here's the data dump:

Anguirel:

#13 in character; anybody see any hidden messages?
#21 accuses Kath and Eomer but doesn’t seem serious; says dancing spawn has made a good point (referring to thinking of the “innocent” lover as a Cobbler, perhaps)
#37 comments on the suicidal votes
#51 says Samwise Gamgee’s case against Cailin is “patchy and bedraggled;” buys into the (completely unfounded, in my opinion) idea that there’s a connection between Valier and tgwbs; refers to Garin as “bizarre”
#54 regarding lmp: “Still, stone-cutter, I'm not a-liking your arbitrating tone of voice. ..”
#58 says (rightly, if you ask me) that it’s futile and counterproductive to focus on Lovers or Wolves
#59 reminds eonwe that the Lovers live and die together
#65 skewers Garin for his insistence that we should try to kill the Lovers in particular
#69 says he doesn’t trust Eomer; continues the interplay with lmp
#112 wants to save Garin; says Glirdan’s vote is suspicious
#115 asks Thinlomien not to vote for Garin
#118 votes for Glirdan

Others in regard to Anguirel:

Garin mentions him #24, #39 #73 for what that’s worth
Glirdan mentions him mid-rant #41 (“Seriously Ang, I’m in major agreement with you. We are the only sane people in this village.”)
Caranlondien mentions him #49; in regard to occupation only? or am i missing something?
lmp agrees with him about Samwise #52
eonwe thanks him for the reminder #60
Formendacil says he’s a “very keen player” and that he’s being more helpful than usual. Finds this odd. #64
lmp is conciliatory #67
Farael begins his misguided attack #70
Samwise defends him against Farael #71 and #74
Farael continues the offensive #72
Celuien mentions him #84; in-character only
Celuien says he’s helpful #86
Gurthang says he has seen a possible Seer hint that makes him suspicious of Ang #96
Farael votes for him #102
Caranlondien votes for him #108
Thinlomien replies to him #116; isn’t sure where her vote is going

Now, where does this get us? Several people have mentioned that they saw what might be Seer hints;Farael based his attack on what he thought were fake Seer hints. It may be that this is why Anguirel was chosen; it may be that he was chosen to set up Farael; it may be that Farael is a wolf who decided to exonerate himself with a double-cross: "But why would I go after him so strongly and then kill him that very night? I'd never be so bold!" Yeah you would.

Other theories? Anguirel had serious things to say about Samwise, lmp, and possibly Eomer. Could he have been on to something? Did he get something right, contributing to the wolves' idea that he was a Seer?

[tar-ancalime]

And now, yesterday's voting in chronological order:

Cailin-->Lalaith
"Because she is young, rich and beautiful and I just can't stand it."

tgwbs-->tgwbs
in some kind of nilpaurion emulation ceremony

Garin-->Garin
because he’s Garin?

Lalaith-->tgwbs
because he told her to

Eomer-->lmp
as part of his master plan

Kath-->Eomer
because we won’t have to worry about him if he’s dead

tar-ancalime-->Farael
because he is obscuring things

eonwe-->Garin
because he drew the wrong number in the village lottery


Celuien-->Garin
because of his bizarre reversals

lmp-->Eomer
because knowing is half the battle (“Knowing his status may be about the most useful thing that can be garnered out of Day One.”)

Glirdan-->Garin
because...why was that, exactly?

Farael-->Anguirel
for what he thinks is a fake Seer hint

Naria-->tgwbs
because he wants her to

Caranlondien-->Anguirel
because he’s “saying much while saying little”

Valier—>Glirdan;
she says it’s “hasty and safe.”

Thinlomien-->Glirdan
because “there’s something wrong with him”

Anguirel-->Glirdan
because of his vote for Garin

Formendacil-->tgwbs
to save Garin and Glirdan

Lhunadrawen-->Lalaith
“to make a stand”

Samwise-->Garin
to break the tie

Gurthang-->lmp
because...why was that, exactly?

dancing spawn-->eonwe
“because his reasons were just a bit too weird.”

[tar-ancalime]

Yeah, me again.

I finally got a chance to take a look at today's posts.

I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason.

Lalaith, you're right on here:

Firstly, we have two pairs operating here. One is a pair we are desperate to keep safe, the other most emphatically not...but it would be disastrous if we were to mistake one for the other. If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

I've gotten in trouble for this in the past, but here goes again: if you think you know who the Seers are, for Varda's sake keep your trap shut! If you're right you're obviously helping the wolves by bringing it up; if you're wrong you're helping the wolves by adding a false element to the game. They can use it. They thrive on confusion.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just now I'm most interested in what went on with Eomer and LMP yesterday. Does either of them (moreso Eomer on this front) wish to explain themself? I'm not saying they're wolves, I'm just somewhat suspicious, as any villager should be.

tar-ancalime, you make a fair point that Ang had some interesting things to say about me. And frankly, I'd probably have said the same regarding myself in the 'clutching at straws' atmosphere of day one. However, I'm less inclined to look at those who Ang accused directly. We're in a very experienced village, and I don't think the wolves would slip up like that on night one. Now, of course, I ahave just asked questions of Eomer and LMP, who were accused by Ang. However, my suspicions are not based on Ang's accusations, but rather on their suspicious actions. So, if you ask me, Lommy and Kath are probably innocent. And I am too, obviously.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just another little one to agree with tar-ancalime: at this early stage just monitor any pairish action you think you see. This is helpful because, as t-a said, it prevents layers of falsehood building too readily but also because a longer observation period will allow you to gather more evidence and make it less likely you'll be accused and maybe lynched for making baseless accusations.

[Lalaith]

longer observation period will allow you to gather more evidence and make it less likely you'll be accused and maybe lynched for making baseless accusations

That's not the point, Samwise. The two Seers are the most important innocents. Ords being lynched are an occupational hazard, our priority is keeping the Seers safe for as long as we can.
I personally don't think any accusations about pairwork, however well-founded, should be made while both Seers remain alive.

[Lalaith]

And remember, we don't have a Ranger so an outed Seer is a defenceless Seer.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Fair point, Lalaith. Now, onto darker matters: Lhuna.

Post #123: Lhuna votes for Lalaith. Now, at the time I thought this odd, as it left the tie which Form had created (in itself suspicious) standing. However, I let it pass until post #139, where Lhuna says: 'And the fact that a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconserting.' But obviously not all that disconserting, as you let the tie stand. What say ye, Lhuna?

[the guy who be short]

I'm back. :D

I'm still a wolf by the way.

I have many thoughts swirling through my head, but I will hold them for another Day.

Let me just say that we should not focus too much on the votings of the first day. There were 22 villagers, I believe, and... oh, we voted for 10 of them altogether? Impressive.

In that case, I will consider day one votes, for they will not be entirely useless.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Tar-ancalime has already gone through Anguirel's posts, but I want to do it my way, too.

Why was Anguirel killed? What did he say?

#21, pointed at Kath and Eomer.
"For one, I don't like the stamp of that musician fella."
"The varmint claims to have disguised a were-army of hedgehogs under green shells and hidden them in a turtle farm. What d'ye have to say to that, Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat Wandering Horde? Ha ha!" ~Ang

"I don't think Ang's early mention of Kath has anything to do with anything. I assumed from the beginning that it was just Day 1 histrionics, and that's why in my summary I barely mentioned it. And now that he's been proven not to have been a Seer, it can't possibly mean anything. She hadn't spoken yet--he was pulling her name out of the air. She may well merit a closer look, but not for this reason." ~tar-ancalime

Actually, at the time when Anguirel mentioned Kath, she had already spoken.

I think it's probable that the wolves don't want to waste their time for frame-ups when there are two Seers around. The sooner the wolves get rid of the Seers, the less incriminating information there is. Possibly makes Kath or Eomer look bad. However...

"You're going to have to trust in a dour, sensible sober man of arms like me." ~Ang

Did the wolves think this was a clue that he would have been a Seer? Maybe Anguirel wasn't killed because of the people he mentioned, but the way he talked.

#51, kind of defends Cailín, but doesn't think Samwise is necessarily a wolf because of his "patchy and bedraggled attack". Comments the possibility that there's something between Valier and TGWBS.

Lots of names there, but he doesn't really accuse any of them, so I don't think the wolves would have got scared because of that post.

#54, says that he had forgot lmp, doesn't like his "arbitary tone of voice".

#69, "But I don't trust the harper [Eomer] who accuses ye [lmp] one bit" ~Ang

This is the second time Anguirel mentiones Eomer with that kind of a tone. If Eomer is a wolf, he might have thought that Anguirel has dreamed of him.

#112, thinks Glirdan's vote for Garin is suspicious.

#115, defends Garin quite strongly.

Did the wolves think Anguirel had dreamed of Garin?

#118, votes for Glirdan


Quite a lot of this speaks against Glirdan. Is Glirdan a wolf who thinks Anguirel was a Seer who had dreamed of him? For now, I think Glirdan has been acting like he'd usually act, though.

Okay, there's a possibility that the wolves didn't think that Anguirel was a Seer, but killed him for some other reason instead. However, I'd assume that the wolves are trying to eliminate the Seers asap. and something that Anguirel said caught their attention.

[the guy who be short]

Number / Vote for / Vote by / Vote count

1. Lalaith - Cailin (Lalaith - 1)
2. TGWBS - TGWBS (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 1)
3. Garin - Garin (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 1, Garin - 1)
4. TGWBS - Lalaith (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1)
5. LMP - Eomer (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1)
6. Eomer - Kath (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1)
7. Farael - Tar-Ancalime (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 1, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
8. Garin - Eonwe (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 2, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
9. Garin - Celuien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 3, LMP - 1, Eomer - 1, Farael - 1)
10. Eomer - LMP (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 3, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1)
11. Garin - Glirdan (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1)
12. Anguirel - Farael (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 2, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 1)
13. TGWBS - Naria (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 1)
14. Anguiriel - Caranlondien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2)
15. Glirdan - Valier (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 1)
16. Glirdan - Thinlomien (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 2)
17. Glirdan - Anguirel (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 3, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
18. TGWBS - Formendacil (Lalaith - 1, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
19. Lalaith - Lhunardawen (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 4, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
20. Garin - Samwise (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 1, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
21. LMP - Gurthang (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 2, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3)
22. Eonwe - spawn (Lalaith - 2, TGWBS - 4, Garin - 5, LMP - 2, Eomer - 2, Farael - 1, Anguirel - 2, Glirdan - 3, Eonwe - 1)

[the guy who be short]

I need to go, but I'll probably be back in an hour. I will then refer to these voting records, and urge others to consider them too. We focus too much on Anguirel. With 9 (not 10) votes, we probably got a wolf.

[Lhunardawen]

Fair point, Lalaith. Now, onto darker matters: Lhuna.

Post #123: Lhuna votes for Lalaith. Now, at the time I thought this odd, as it left the tie which Form had created (in itself suspicious) standing. However, I let it pass until post #139, where Lhuna says: 'And the fact that a double-lynch was all too near is a bit disconserting.' But obviously not all that disconserting, as you let the tie stand. What say ye, Lhuna?

Seriously, Samwise...after suspecting those who voted for tgwbs, how could I bring myself to vote for him to save Garin? I still think he's innocent, just being Nilp to a T. Sure, Lalaith has a point that he could pull off a bluff like that, but right now I believe he's innocent.

I guess approaching a double lynch was inevitable yesterDay because we wanted to save Garin, but that doesn't make it any more comfortable.

[tar-ancalime]

Originally posted by the spawndress:

Actually, at the time when Anguirel mentioned Kath, she had already spoken.

I stand corrected. I did go back and look at her post, and I still think Anguirel's accusation of her was random. Thanks for pointing it out, though--it's always good to have the facts straight.

Now, Lhuna:

I guess approaching a double lynch was inevitable yesterDay because we wanted to save Garin, but that doesn't make it any more comfortable.

"We wanted to save Garin"?

At the time you voted, it was absolutely within your power to tip the scales. I know you also think tgwbs was innocent, but you're not going to gain any sympathy by playing both sides against the middle like that. You chose, actually, not to save either of them. The votes were tied at the time you voted for Lalaith--did you honestly think it through and decide that lynching two people whom you believed to be innocent was better than choosing between them? It's highly unlikely that the votes would have become tied again after your vote--such a dramatic gesture towards a double lynch would be suicide for any wolf or Lover.

[Thinlómien]

And remember, we don't have a Ranger so an outed Seer is a defenceless Seer.
Don't we? I was under the impression we have one.

EDIT: cross-posted with tar-ancalime, not that it matters but just for the record

[Lalaith]

#115, defends Garin quite strongly
Did the wolves think Anguirel had dreamed of Garin?
(spawn

Quite possibly. Or alternatively, perhaps they thought Ang's defence of Garin meant they were the two Seers. (A VERY reckless pair, if that had been so!)
In that case, back to the original theory that Ang - or even Garin - might have said something Seerish through chance.

Or maybe tgwbs is right and we are spending too much on this.

[Lalaith]

Nope, my dear mushroompicker. I refer you back to the Prophet's first utterance on this thread. Four wolves, two seers, two lovers. The rest of us are ords.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We've lost Garin and Anguirel. This makes me sad as they clearly brought something to the village: the gifts of wit, charm and humour. Not only that, but they were guaranteed to post a lot and contribute. Not a good start.

Anyway, why do people keep picking up on this supposed 'master-plan' of mine? What are you talking about? I wanted to make it obvious that I was voting for LMP pretty much randomly. I wanted to see what kind of reaction it would get. I wanted to see if anyone would vote for me because of this random vote; and I wanted to see if anyone would bandwagon on LMP because of my random vote. Either way can look suspicious.

As it happened, Gurthang voted for LMP; but that seemed to be in reaction to LMP's return vote for me. He thought at least one of us is a wolf playing games. I'd let Gurthang off the hook for now. His was an open-minded vote and he spoke good sense to me. He comes across as bold and seems innocent enough.

LMP's vote for me was perhaps strange but I was really asking for it by voting him first. Also, LMP didn't have too much to go on.

Kath's vote for me was weird.

Also, was it Kath or LMP or both of them, who said that it's best to kill Eomer because, if we don't, we'll never be sure of his innocence anyway? This is totally unfair. We're hardly going to be sure of anyone's innocence unless they die or the Seer declares it so. To pick on me in this manner — stirring fears of my past wolvish exploits — is really unfair and uncalled for.

Scaremongering I call it, and it looks suspicious. I'll edit this post soon with the correct info on this matter...


EDIT: Both Kath and LMP, it appears.

[Thinlómien]

At the time you voted, it was absolutely within your power to tip the scales. I know you also think tgwbs was innocent, but you're not going to gain any sympathy by playing both sides against the middle like that. You chose, actually, not to save either of them. The votes were tied at the time you voted for Lalaith--did you honestly think it through and decide that lynching two people whom you believed to be innocent was better than choosing between them? Lhuna's reluctance to take sides has worried me too.
Scenario 1: Lhuna is a wolf/lover who wants as much innocents to die as possible.
Scenario 2: Lhuna is a wolf/lover and doesn't want to take sides because tgwbs is her lover/fellow wolf and she doesn't want to be connected to him in any possible way.
Scenario 3: Lhuna is an ordo who didn't ponder her vote so much. (According to my WW-experience, gifteds and wolves are the most careful players; they would maybe think again before getting into the suspicious situation Lhuna got herself into.)
Scenario 4: Something my limited mind can't think about just now.

Edit: xposting again; this time with Eomer and Lalaith

[the guy who be short]

On Day one, there is no need for wolves to keep their votes til the end, as they usually do. This is because the village generally plunges itself into confusion anyway.

However, I shall still suspect spawn and Gurthang for late apathetic votes. At such a stage, the sensible thing for a villager to do would be to vote for either Garin or I - whoever looked worst. To throw their vote away reeks of... apathy. Of these two, Gurthang sits worse with me.

Maybe we should vote TGWBS, he's probably pulling reverse psychiatry (I know that's not the right word) on us. 'No wolf would vote for himself!". Bah! I am unconvinced of that, but remain undecided.This was shortly after my suicidal post (I'm still a wolf, by the way). It seems he was trying to see if he could garner support for lynching me before commiting himself. Then, when there was a large movement to lynch either me or Garin, he threw his vote away - knowing we were both innocent - sorry, one of us is a wolf, I mean! - so as not to gain suspicion.

I also suspect Farael for being annoyed at me acting as Nilp - but then, for whatever reason, not following in my footsteps. His role was to kill himself. Why did he make a big fuss and not fulfill it?

Formendacil's reasoning also seems a bit iffy.

Meanwhile, LMP seems trustworthy.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Farael attacked Anguirel based on his humorous remark about Kath. Looks suspicious.

That tells you what I thought about Ang (though I always take Ang's side, it seems).

Gurthang is innocent (I hope! now that I've made this bold claim)

Samwise? Something seems strange about him ( :p ) but his vote for Garin may actually work in his favour. He seemed more certain that he was a wolf and that was at the end of voting when it looked like Garin would indeed be lynched.

Form tried to save Garin – why? How did you know he was innocent? (Although I tend to agree that Garin would have been better to save than TGWBS — Form is let off for now).

Spawn (and I can't remember why) struck me as innocent. Inclined to leave her at the moment (maybe I'll remember why later).

Lhuna came right out and said that Glirdan and Garin — 2 of the main suspects — were probably innocent. Seemed very worried about it. Could be a wolvish show? I swear there is a lupine seed in that Elf somewhere but when will it sprout? As usual, she is near the top of my list (only this time, Lhuna, it's nothing to do with my wolvish lies).

The others do not yet jump out at me, though I will say that something appears wrong with Lalaith and I am going to be watching her very closely. I'll tell why later.


So my suspects at the moment:

1) Farael
2) Kath
3) Lhuna
4) Lalaith

[Thinlómien]

I think we should pay attention to Caralondien, Naria and Valier. Just because they will otherwise just go unnoticed. Not that there's much to analyse about them, but I'm just saying we shouldn't forget them. Day one already passed, they've proven (at least Cara and Naria) to be good at not getting attention.

There are some other people that have escaped doubt. But I myself admit that we can't concentrate in analysing everyone. I just fear that (a) silent wolf/wolves will slip unnoticed when loud villagers/wolves/lovers/gifteds hang each other.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Or alternatively, perhaps they thought Ang's defence of Garin meant they were the two Seers. (A VERY reckless pair, if that had been so!)
In that case, back to the original theory that Ang - or even Garin - might have said something Seerish through chance. But at the end of the Day it was proved that Garin was no Seer. Why would they then have thought that Anguirel was his fellow Seer?

Or maybe tgwbs is right and we are spending too much on this.Perhaps. Or maybe Anguirel's death will tell us more after a few days.



This Lhuna issue might be worth closer examining, I think.

#120: "I feel that both Garin and Glirdan are innocent, just completely misled."

"Two other people stood out for me toDay: Lalaith, Naria, and Eonwe." ~Lhuna

(Actually, that's three. :p )


12 minutes before the deadline, Formendacil comes and makes a tie. Interesting...

"Alas, though, I have little choice if I want to save Garin. Old players will know that I judge players by how "normal" their playing style is, and both Garin and Glirdan seem completely normal." ~Form

I use that tactic sometimes, too. That said, I think Lhuna's behaviour has changed quite a bit from the usual. More insecure and apologetic, I'd say.

"And I can but hope that Lhuna or some other late voter (IS there another voter as yet unvoted) will break the tie..." ~Form

Quite risky behaviour from Formendacil, but then again, he knew that Lhuna was around. Not that it helped, though, since she didn't break the tie.

#123: "This could possibly put me in trouble if Garin's found indeed innocent, but I have to make a stand. I'm so sorry, Garin..." ~Lhuna

There's the apology. Villagers whose actions are decorated with apologies are creeping me out. I can't understand that she didn't want to save Garin even though she seemed confident that he was innocent. Instead she voted for someone who had no chance of getting killed yesterDay in place of Garin or TGWBS. The fact that we were uncomfortably close to a double-lynch doesn't help either.

#139: "I was afraid that Anguirel might have been an extremely bold Seer" ~Lhuna

A wolvish confession?

#154: "Seriously, Samwise...after suspecting those who voted for tgwbs, how could I bring myself to vote for him to save Garin? I still think he's innocent" ~Lhuna

So, it was better to risk two lives that you deemed to be innocent instead of saving one of them?

Right now your actions feel rather wolvish, young missy.

[Lalaith]

But at the end of the Day it was proved that Garin was no Seer. Why would they then have thought that Anguirel was his fellow Seer?


Doh!
Sorry. Of course.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I think we should pay attention to Caralondien, Naria and Valier. Just because they will otherwise just go unnoticed. Not that there's much to analyse about them, but I'm just saying we shouldn't forget them.Day one already passed, they've proven (at least Cara and Naria) to be good at not getting attention.

There are some other people that have escaped doubt. But I myself admit that we can't concentrate in analysing everyone. I just fear that (a) silent wolf/wolves will slip unnoticed when loud villagers/wolves/lovers/gifteds hang each other.Those three have been very chary of words, but while we await them to join us toDay, we can analyse those who have said enough instead of just twirling our thumbs, yes?


*sigh*

Okay, I try...
Here's what I found out of Naria:

#29 - Isn't impressed by Gurthang's post #20 where he claims that randomly speaking, Naria is a wolf. I don't know why Naria chose to answer this "accusation", but she doesn't seem overly defensive or anything.
But I digress, and will myself, look a little deeper and see what I can see before vote time.Well, I'd have liked to hear more of her thoughts, but maybe some other time then, because she posted only once after this yesterDay.

#139 - Says Garin is probably being just himself. Thinks that TGWBS' vote is stupid, and votes for him because usually she would have voted for Nilp (and TGWBS is the closest equivalent in this game, or something like that. Notice, btw, that Nilp's never been a wolf, so I'm not sure if that's so good a reason for a vote :p ).

~The End~

All in all, I'm not suspicious of Naria right now, because she's acting like I would have expected.

I'm not sure if I have time to analyse Valier or Caralondien now (they've posted a tad more than Naria), so someone else can do that if they want to.

Edit: A horrible thought just occured to me. Maybe I'm suspicious of Naria anyway...

[Glirdan]

Poor Ang. Tis a tragedy that he had to go so soon. We could really have used his insight.

I'm not sure if I have time to analyse Valier or Caralondien now (they've posted a tad more than Naria), so someone else can do that if they want to.(Spawn)

I volunteer to do it. I'll be back with a posting analysis on them shortly.

[Glirdan]

Valier

Post #19 - The usual mourning for the loss of our Prophet. Asks who's going to give her luck for shearing her sheep. Also says she's going to look at the "creepy's". Says she's going to knit TGWBS a new beard because he tore his own beard out. Agree's with others that we should concentrate on the Wolves and not the Lovers. Tells the Wolves to give themselves up. Says she's going to go clear her head and make beards for everyone. Then Randomly accuses the Unemployed.

Post #56 - Scolds Garin for not knowing her well enough because he thought she wouldn't be so bold as Valier had been. Says she just felt bad for TGWBS because he ripped his beard out. Is baffled why anyone would campaing for their own deaths. Says she will not vote for one of the "campaingners" and thinks they are to striken with grief.

Post #109 - Says that all the days bantering has left her confused and votes for Glirdan. Says her vote is hasty and safe and thinks it will be taken at face value. Doesn't take first day accusations seriously until there is more concrete proof. Says that unemployed people help little.

I can't get a whole lot out of this except the fact that she doesn't like the unemployed. And if so, why not vote for Formendacil?? That also would have been a safe vote, would it not? I'll be back shortly for the analysis on Caralondien

[Thinlómien]

Those three have been very chary of words, but while we await them to join us toDay, we can analyse those who have said enough instead of just twirling our thumbs, yes? Did I say otherwise? :eek: Seriously, that was part of my point but I'm not sure if it can be figured out from my post. (I sometimes write like I would be assuming that people know what I think. :rolleyes: )

Thinks that TGWBS' vote is stupid, and votes for him because usually she would have voted for Nilp (and TGWBS is the closest equivalent in this game, or something like that. Notice, btw, that Nilp's never been a wolf, so I'm not sure if that's so good a reason for a vote ). (underline mine) Wait a minute! In normal conditions she would have voted for Nilp?!
I do find Shorty's vote for himself, for lack of a better word, stupid(or maybe there is a better word ?). If he wants to be a Nilp than I will have to vote for him, as that is what I would do on the first DAY if it were Nilp.(smileys) :eek: Refresh your memories, fellow villagers! What happened to our dear prophet? He was lynched (=voted) by wolves! A bad slip. Wolvish or unwolvish is the queston.

[Eonwe]

My, my, this early in the bright morn, and already a firey discussion blazes forth from the village. I like it!

My heart is greatly downcast at the revelations that this new dawn brings to light. Anguirel was ever a stalwart champion in our fight against the phanamonious wolves that pery apon us by night. I do hope that we will live through this nightmere, if only to immortallize his last stand in song.

I'm going to have a job of siffting through all the posts, not to mention looking back on yesterDay for my own analysis. This could take awhile, and, as I don't have much time, I cannot promise you any worthwhile data, though I will of course try my best.

Not to mention, I will have a hard time getting on this weekend, as I have a full plate of whatnot to attend to. Sorry bout that.

[Glirdan]

Caranlondien

Post #49 - Cries in pity for our Prophet and says we must overcome our grief to find the Werewolves. Says that it would be foolish to lynch Ang as he's the villages only proper lumberjack and also says that he's never seen Ang bring back so much as one piece of firewood. (being slightly contradictive?) Says that it will be difficult to find four Wolves but is heartened by the fact that one is a traitor. Sees no reason for us to not find both Lovers and Wolves.

Post #55 - Agrees with Eonwe that looking for the Wolves would be simpler. Says that as we search for the Wolves, each of us have personal "parameters" that a Wolf would fit and says that the traitor would not necessarily fit these "parameters".

Post #108 - Believes Garin is innocent because of his reactions. Says his vote will not make a significant impact yet he's been suspicious of Ang for awhile. Says he says much yet says little. Votes Ang.

The oddest thing I find about all of this is that Caranlondien says in his very first post that we shouldn't lynch Ang and then, pretty much out of the blue, he votes Ang at a time where it would be a very safe vote and not do any real damage.

I will be back later. I need to go tend to my hut.

[Cailín]

I have little time, so just a few quick reactions.

How so? I make it a definite seven - four wolves, two seers and an ord lover. Where does the five come in? Has one of us got the wrong end of the stick?

Hmm yeah, you might interpret it either way. By knowing more, I meant knowing the identity of the wolves, while clearly the Seers also know more as they know each other and the true identity of at least two other players.

Just for clarification, dear Prophet, I assume that if the Seers dream of a Lover, they shall only know whether s/he is an Ordo or wolf and not learn of their secret relationship?

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.

I also, as I stated before, do not really believe Kath to be guilty. If indeed Ang was suspected to be a Seer with a lucky dream, surely the wolves would have thought he'd have voted for Kath. It seems too obvious a set up.

In retrospect, Anguirel was maybe killed for his noble efforts to save Garin.

If an innocent ord spots what he thinks is suspicious pairwork, is it a good idea to bring this up publicly? Might this not alert the wolves to the identity of the Seer pair?

If an ord is sure of their findings, better keep quiet. The same goes for identifying the Lover pair - if neither of them is a wolf, likely we have found the Seers. I shall not change my views: the werewolves are the main threat, not these star-crossed Lovers. If we bring down all wolves, we will find them sooner or later.

Lhuna has been under a bit of suspicion because of her 'noble' vote. I usually suspect wolves to vote early on Day 1 to avoid getting caught up in tallying scores and giving innocents the final blow. I'm not really sure how I feel about Lhuna, and she seems different somehow. However, she was recently a first Day lynchee, if we're going to bring up other legendary werewolf stories anyway, which might explain her being a bit more careful.

I still think he's innocent, just being Nilp to a T. Sure, Lalaith has a point that he could pull off a bluff like that, but right now I believe he's innocent.

Lhuna, TGWBS had already announced he would be pulling a Nilp. So did Farael. Not doing it would make them look more suspicious, which is precisely why I am uncomfortable concerning Farael right now. He might have been very relieved he did not need to be suicidal after all. And as to the short one, his act doesn't make him look better nor worse.

[Thinlómien]

Glirdy, just one thing. Cara is a she. :D

Despite of your analysis, I don't find her particularly suspiciuos, because:
#1 - She's a newbie to WW. They can play quite strangely. (no offense)
#2 - I'm a flip-floppy person so I don't want to accuse anybody else for it. Or maybe about real flip-flops, but not about changing one's mind or writing weirdly. Cara doesn't explain herself, but I assume that she just changed her mind. Most of people do that quite often.

Though, spawn was correct, there isn't very much to analyse in her. She can be a wolf as well as an innocent.

I plead her and other silent villagers to speak. We really need everyone's opinion, advise (and slips :p) to get the wolves.

EDIT: cross-posted with Cailín
edit-add: I say that Cara doesn't explain herself and just voice my assumptions and place a dot. That sounds like would think that her changing of mind needs no explanation. I'm not saying so. I wait that Cara will explain herself.

[Thinlómien]

Just for clarification, dear Prophet, I assume that if the Seers dream of a Lover, they shall only know whether s/he is an Ordo or wolf and not learn of their secret relationship? He said so somewhere. Can't just remember when, but I'm sure he said so.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Did I say otherwise? :eek: Seriously, that was part of my point but I'm not sure if it can be figured out from my post. (I sometimes write like I would be assuming that people know what I think. :rolleyes: )I had the impression that you wanted us to lay off our previous debates and concentrate on those three, but I may have misunderstood you, sorry.

(underline mine) Wait a minute! In normal conditions she would have voted for Nilp?! That's what she said.

Refresh your memories, fellow villagers! What happened to our dear prophet? He was lynched (=voted) by wolves! A bad slip. Wolvish or unwolvish is the queston.Hmm, actually, I think it's a sort of a tradition of Naria's to vote for Nilp. I'm not sure if Nilp was voted off by the wolves, you know... What's the slip here?


Also, dear people of Ened-in-Nowhere: read the first post of this thread (there are some who call it 'rules') and you'll find playing much more easier when you know how the system works. :p

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The wolves are trying to catch the Seers. I think that's very likely, if not indubitable.

Now, if Anguirel was thought to be the Seer, it's because he tried to save Garin so. He even said that his 'forest instincts' told him that Garin was innocent.

He voted for Glirdan (I think: correct me if I'm wrong). But didn't seem to strongly suspect him (despite his calls for 'die wolf!' or whatever, I think that's just Anguirel being amusing — how I miss him...)

So why all this talk of a set-up of Kath? Both Lalaith and Cailín mention that the death of Anguirel so obviously leads back to Kath that it must be a set-up.

Huh?

Anguirel made a humorous accusation of Kath in his second post before she'd even posted. What's out of the ordinary here? What right-thinking person would link the death back to Kath? It seems to me that the wolves might be getting a bit defensive, considering that Farael also jumped onto Kath's accuser ( a bit hysterically, if you ask me) after Anguirel's jest. Farael also mentioned something about he and Kath always being at odds in Werewolf — Don't look that way to me! EDIT: [Last sentence not actually true :rolleyes: ]

Tar-ancalime appears to be thinking along these lines.

So, I'm mightily suspicious of Farael, Kath, and Lalaith. (I'll post again on Lalaith, later).

[Lhunardawen]

Ah, suspicion. I never get into a village without it. This time it's because I let the tie between tgwbs and Garin remain by voting for someone who's very unlikely to be lynched. Because I thought the two of them are innocents and couldn't vote for any of them to save the other. Right? That's why I really hate these near-double lynchings. :rolleyes: If I had voted for one, I would have been a bandwagoning wolf. Now that I chose not to vote for either, I'm a noncomittal werewolf. So what would I be? Either way I'll be suspected.

Eomer, I'm sorry that you think I have something lupine in me. Are we really meant to be enemies in Werewolf? ;)

I just stuck to my previously mentioned suspicions and voted for one of them, hoping the other villagers who were around and haven't voted yet will break the tie. I see no sense in jumping on a bandwagon that I already said I refused to trust.

tar-ancalime: Yes, we wanted to save him. Read the final posts yesterDay, and you'll see that Anguirel, Lommy (though she later regretted it), Form, and dancing spawn voted in a way to help save Garin.

Whoops, I meant three, dancing spawn. Mathematics... :rolleyes:


A wolvish confession? No, a fair observation. I think Anguirel could have pulled off such a bold declaration if he really was the Seer.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That thing I posted about Farael and Kath wasn't true, by the way. There was no 'I think we are meant to be enemies' comment — maybe it was on the original game thread? I don't know. Sorry.

Anyway, I think it would be a killer tactic for wolfy-Farael to slay Anguirel at night and then he could say 'Oh, but then I would have wanted to continue attacking him next day; this means that I'll need a new target.'

True, but it's unexpected enough to work; and I think you'd be bold enough to agree to kill Anguirel at night and try to work it during the day that a wolf wouldn't do that.

Anyway, Lhuna: why do you always apologise so much for your votes. It really makes you look suspicious.

[Thinlómien]

I seem to be good at getting you under wrong expressions, spawn. (See - partially - below: )

Hmm, actually, I think it's a sort of a tradition of Naria's to vote for Nilp. I'm not sure if Nilp was voted off by the wolves, you know... What's the slip here? Inside joking. :rolleyes: But for anyone who doesn't know the joke the comment was a bit misguiding. And I disagree with you about the death of our prophet. There was "++Nilpaurion Felagund" four times, which was a reference to the wolves. If someone says on Day 1 "I vote tgwbs because I can't vote Nilp" it seems very wolvish to me (not that I'm assuming the wolves to be so stupid, but...). Hope that you got my point this time better. :)

[Lalaith]

So why all this talk of a set-up of Kath? Both Lalaith and Cailín mention that the death of Anguirel so obviously leads back to Kath that it must be a set-up.

Eomer, I was merely responding to Gurthang's initial statement that he would be looking closely at Kath. I meant that if a wolf-Kath had killed Ang for naming her, it would be rather obvious.

[tar-ancalime]

from Lhunardawen:

tar-ancalime: Yes, we wanted to save him. Read the final posts yesterDay, and you'll see that Anguirel, Lommy (though she later regretted it), Form, and dancing spawn voted in a way to help save Garin.

I have read those posts. I take issue with your including yourself in that group; that's why I italicized "we."


from Eomer:

Anyway, I think it would be a killer tactic for wolfy-Farael to slay Anguirel at night and then he could say 'Oh, but then I would have wanted to continue attacking him next day; this means that I'll need a new target.'

That's exactly what I thought! Especially since Farael made it a point yesterday to remind us of his ancestors' singleminded pursuit of one target. What better play than to pretend he was up to his old tricks, only to be stopped in his tracks by the nasty, nasty wolves who killed his quarry?

But the fact of the two unprotected Seers remains. I have to think that the wolves' only object at this point is to find the two of them. I think that for every wolvish kill, we have to ask ourselves: what made them think the victim was a Seer? What did they get right?

And with Anguirel that could be Kath; it could also be lmp; it could also be you, our toothy troubadour!

I think there is something in this Farael charade idea; could the wolves have decided during the Day to kill Anguirel as a potential Seer, then set up Farael's attacks on him in advance?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I was wondering why on earth people were linking me to Anguirel, and then I found it: Anguirel mentioned that he didn't like the look of me in that second post of his (which was clearly made in humour). I didn't notice that first time round because he didn't mention me by name. :rolleyes:

Anyway...yes, yes, I suppose it does link me to him. Ah well, I have no comeback to that, especially as he mentioned in a later post how he trusted me not.

Funny, though, how Farael jumped to the defence of Kath and not me, when Anguirel apparently jested with both of us.

Those two look very suspect to me.

Lalaith, if wolf-Kath had killed Anguirel then it would not look obvious, considering that Anguirel had accused me in like manner and actually voted for Glirdan. Why should it lead back to Kath at all? Have you mentioned how it seriously leads back to me or Glirdan?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Apparently not. I'm surprised that you didn't mention how the slaying of Anguirel obviously points to me or Glirdan, especially since Gurthang — in the post you were responding to — had voiced suspicions of me too.

Farael, Kath and Lalaith are looking extremely wolvish to me.

[Lalaith]

*shrugs* Whatever. Look, it was no big deal, I was really just interested in finding out what Gurthang meant by his initial comment. (I don't think he's answered me, either.)

Actually, of all the what-did-Ang-say-to-seal-his-fate theories that have been mooted, I think his defence of Garin is probably the most likely. I think the wolves are more interested in finding Seers than in framing anyone, right now.

[Valier]

wow so much has happened since I woke up! (damn timezones) I have read over every thing and I must say some of the players I have played with before are not acting like themselves. Garin I was sure was an Ordo, due to his behavior as well as I thought Ang to be either an Ordo or a slim chance a seer.
I can't get a whole lot out of this except the fact that she doesn't like the unemployed. and if so, why not vote for Formendacil?? That also would have been a safe vote, would it not?Yep I could have voted for Form, but I didn't, like I said it was random. I was not expecting anyone to follow me with this vote, but it seemed like others thought it a good idea. I believe two other votes came in after mine for Glirdan.

Now as to weird behavior I see that Eonwe is more talkative than I have ever seen him. Glirdan your posting seems off from the norm as well. I can't remember who it was who voted for Glirdan after me, but I think I shall look into them and their reasons behind their votes. Be back in a bit.

[Lalaith]

Oh, and by the way:
is that it - the full gist of this grand revelation you've been promising to publish all day? That I didn't mention you in my post? Is that all it takes to be a wolf-suspect these days, not talking enough about Eomer? :rolleyes:

[Valier]

ok so I noticed that Thin you voted for Glirdan as well as I did because he's acting strange? Care to elaborate? As well Ang voted for him to save Garin. Thin your vote is suddenly looking strange...... You could be looking at me as suspisious to hide your own Fur..... Funny you suspect me AND Ang got killed last night....hhhhmmmmmmmm

[Caranlondien]

Caranlondien

Says that it would be foolish to lynch [B]Ang as he's the villages only proper lumberjack and also says that he's never seen Ang bring back so much as one piece of firewood. (being slightly contradictive?)

First off, I'm the lumberjack. I was saying we shouldn't lynch me. As I still unwaiveringly support the idea that I should not be lynched, I hope you shall acquit me of flip-flopping. :p

Funny, though, how Farael jumped to the defence of Kath and not me, when Anguirel apparently jested with both of us.

I agree that this makes Farael and Kath look suspicious.

I'll be back after I read over some more posts.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I did not promise a grand revelation, or a grand masterplan, or anything like that. Why do people say that about what I'm doing? And besides, not mentioning me in that post is possibly important, because Kath and I were in exactly the same boat. So your not mentioning me while mentioning Kath is very relevant to my point. You imply that I'm being arrogant; but what makes you so sure you're worthy of a 'grand revelation'? :p

Grand revelation? I merely voiced suspicions of you. I'll retract that 'very wolvish' comment, though; because it was slightly too much.

My suspicion list:

1) Farael
2) Kath

Followed by:

3) Lalaith
4) Lhuna

We have to have suspects...

[Caranlondien]

On the Lalaith / Eomer front, I understand your suspicions, Eomer. But in Lalaith's defense, off-hand I remember Ang talking about Kath, but I didn't remember him talking about you or Glirdan until I went back and re-read his posts.

[Farael]

First of, to defend myself a little
I also suspect Farael for beeing annoyed at me acting as Nilp - but then, for whatever reason, not following in my footsteps. His role was to kill himself. Why did he make a big fuss and not fulfill it?

Quite simply, because both you AND Garin had done it. Adding a third suicidal maniac to the mix would have been stupid.

Funny, though, how Farael jumped to the defence of Kath and not me, when Anguirel apparently jested with both of us.

Two reasons… first of all, at the time of the post I had not realized what that comment meant… second, he did not say anything about you being involved with a group of were-creatures… Honestly, I thought that he was accusing all but everyone to sugar-coat the pill… think about it, the strongest accusation he made was against Kath…. The rest were MUCH softer… If he had been the Seer, the co-seer could have argued this point without looking too seer-ish himself and thus saving himself from a wolfish retaliation.

Now on to the accusing.

The wolves have been smart… Anguirel was a safe kill for them as not only it would implicate me into it, but it would also give enough circumstantial evidence for Kath to argue that it was an obvious set-up and thus she could not possibly be wolfish. Some villagers have already voiced that proposition and I shall suspect you all for it. While it’s not enough evidence to indict Kath, I think that if she were a wolf, she’d be very interested in killing Ang last night. If he was a seer, she could point out that he accused many people. If he was innocent (as he turned out to be) and left to live, he could have kept on being random and watering down the “too obvious of a setup” argument. If he had kept on accusing people with strong words, no-one could have said that his death implicated him too obviously…. As it’d implicate half the village as well.


It was the right time and under the right conditions for such a kill. As well, note that I said I did not believe he was the Seer (I was right) and that he was a wolf trying to impersonate the seer (Others have said that he could have looked Seer-ish, so it’s not just me saying so).

I’m starting to think Kath is actually a wolf… if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
-If Anguirel was the Seer, Kath might have been done for, but there would have been three more wolves remaining to only one Seer
-If Anguirel was not the seer, Kath could argue that his death shows a clear set-up and it might give her a little longer to live, thus making her look innocent (and for the looks of it, it worked)

Don’t disregard my words too easily (not a seer hint) as some of you seem to prefer weird, far-fetched theories than simpler, more logical ones. Sure, it could be that Lhuna and Formen are the lovers because they showed pretty much opposite voting behaviours and maybe they were lovers trying to differentiate from each other but odds are, they are not. I’m talking odds here, I’m not saying that it could NEVER be the case, but given a logical choice, we should follow simpler theories that are easier to test than more complicated, far-fetched ones. Or maybe it’s just the scientist on me talking.

Anyway, I want to hear some more from Kath… and tar-a, not for her vote last night but because she often makes well argued points yet last night she didn’t.

[Glirdan]

First off, I'm the lumberjack. I was saying we shouldn't lynch me. As I still unwaiveringly support the idea that I should not be lynched, I hope you shall acquit me of flip-flopping.

Completely, my friend. It's been a long day for me. I'm really tired to say the least. And sorry about the gender mix up as well. Now that I go through that, I found absoultely nothing on you. You're safe in my eyes...for now.

Glirdan your posting seems off from the norm as well.

You're right, I'm playing more boldly then my kin in those other villages. But you know what, I like it. So, get used to it. :p

As for suspicions, I don't really have any at this poitn, unless it be Naria for the lack of posting. Quiet ones unnerve me and if I must say, Naria's definetly one of them.

I shall be back later with more.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Anguirel made a humorous accusation of Kath in his second post before she'd even posted.I'll say it once again, Kath did post before Anguirel made the "Empress Kath of the Dread Meerkat" post. I don't know if that makes much difference, but it's good to keep the facts straight.

Inside joking. :rolleyes: But for anyone who doesn't know the joke the comment was a bit misguiding.And I disagree with you about the death of our prophet. There was "++Nilpaurion Felagund" four times, which was a reference to the wolves.Yes, I got that you were joking, but I didn't get the 'slip'. And no, it was there five times, but maybe the last vote was Adam's.

If someone says on Day 1 "I vote tgwbs because I can't vote Nilp" it seems very wolvish to me Or then it seems Naria-esque. :D In any case, it's hard to make conclusions of that since she's so silent...

But the fact of the two unprotected Seers remains. I have to think that the wolves' only object at this point is to find the two of them. I think that for every wolvish kill, we have to ask ourselves: what made them think the victim was a Seer? What did they get right?Exactly.

tar-ancalime: Yes, we wanted to save him. Read the final posts yesterDay, and you'll see that Anguirel, Lommy (though she later regretted it), Form, and dancing spawn voted in a way to help save Garin.Lhuna, I don't think our votes can be ragarded as helpful when talking about saving Garin.

[Cailín]

Let's not have suspects. Let's all live together, in peace and tolerance, meditate and bake chocolate chip cookies. :)

--

Farael is worrying me most right now. I am not yet overly suspicious of Lhuna, though she is playing a careful game. Thinlomien doesn't sit right with me somehow. As for the others, they are flying under my radar currently, though Eomer does seem rather fierce and jumpy. Probably he's just a little over-enthusiastic.

I will explain my reasons when I return. This day has been rather hectic so far. :eek:

edit: cross-posting with quite a few people here.

[Valier]

Let's not have suspects. Let's all live together, in peace and tolerance, meditate and bake chocolate chip cookies


No suspects! But we must!

What's with the cookies? *looks down at nutricious bran muffins I brought* I am the sweet one I tell you! *bats eyelashes* Go with what you know I say (hint, Hint, Gossiper):D

[Gurthang]

Blast! So much discussion. I haven't had a chance to take it all in just yet, but I need to at least speak.

Why so, Gurthang? Ang obviously knew no more than any other ord - do you mean he might have inadvertantly stumbled on the truth? A risky ploy to lynch him, surely as the trail leads so obviously back to Kath.
Just the way that he was going on about the hedgehogs 'telling' him things made me think he was hinting at being a seer. In that post the 'hedgehog' told him that Kath was not to be trusted. I was sort of thinking that was his hint that he had dreamed of her and she was a wolf. Of course, that's proved wrong now.


Gurthang-->lmp
because...why was that, exactly?

I was so sure that either LMP or Eomer was a wolf, and for some strange reason, I felt like Eomer was the one that should be trusted(that goes completely against all past experience); I still feel that way for the same 'some strange reason'. When I voted, I only just got on right at the deadline, and so thought I had to make a quick vote before the Day ended. As it turns out, I would have had plenty of time to analyze, since Day lasted curiously long :rolleyes:.

Despite Eomer saying it was just a random vote, littlemanpoet's retaliatory vote does not sit well with me.

Dancing spawn is also talking a lot of sense. Lhuna may be one to look at.

Lastly, I don't like hearing 'so-and-so can't be a wolf because a wolf just can't do such-and-such!' Wolves can and will do anything, so don't assume that there is anything that automatically clears anyone from being a wolf. (Except the obvious: a seer's declaration of one's innocence.)

[Eonwe]

It appears that I have to vote of suffer the consequence. (According to the prophet of the mod god, those caught not voting are summarily killed off, right?)

Right, that means I have to vote now.

Therefore, I will vote for

++Valier

because she was the last one to post before me... :rolleyes: :(

Sorry.

EDIT: Gurthang, you are a luck hombre... :D

[Kath]

Right, hello, what? Am I being accused of being in a wolvish plot with Farael, in which we killed Ang fully knowing that it would bring suspicion upon me because of a single joking comment he made, very likely because I was one of the few that had posted when he arrived, which we thought might signify that he was one of the Seers?

Or am I not? There seem to be two conflicting views here, and both seem to have been equally supported by Farael toDay. I would hope never to be associated with such a flip-flopper.

My vote for Eomer yesterDay came before lmp's.

Ok defence over with unless anyone has other questions they want answering. I'll be lurking for a bit re-reading everything properly.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Eonwe, seriously! Don't you like, I don't know, suspect anyone? I think there have been lots of ideas and theories flying around toDay and yet you vote for Valier because she posted before you...

I won't vote for you again toDay because to me there are better lynching candidates, too, but you're not being very helpful, if I may say that.


Lastly, I don't like hearing 'so-and-so can't be a wolf because a wolf just can't do such-and-such!' Wolves can and will do anything, so don't assume that there is anything that automatically clears anyone from being a wolf.Hear, hear!


I'd like to hear something from Naria, who hasn't spoken yet, I believe.

[Caranlondien]

Hmmm, I don't like Eonwe's vote. He posted hours ago and would appear to have read at least some of the discussion; doesn't he have any suspicions?

Of course, I understand it must be difficult when you're the first person to vote... Still, by the second Day, vote with at least some reasoning behind it! It makes it too easy on the werewolves if we allow people to cop out by saying "it was just random".

EDIT: Cross-posted with Dancing Spawn

[Thinlómien]

ok so I noticed that Thin you voted for Glirdan as well as I did because he's acting strange? Care to elaborate? As well Ang voted for him to save Garin. Thin your vote is suddenly looking strange...... You could be looking at me as suspisious to hide your own Fur..... Funny you suspect me AND Ang got killed last night....hhhhmmmmmmmm I'm not particularly suspecting you - before now. :p I just pointed out that we shouldn't let silent ones slip unnoticed. My "suspicions" (if you want to call them so) were not based on your Glirdan-vote. If you were under that impression, I understand my vote seems strange. Otherwise, I don't. I voted Glirdy because after one reading, there was something in his posting that didn't sit right with me. It was just a hunch. Surprisingly, I got a chance to get online after my vote (which I had not presumed) and was able to read through his posts and didn't find anything actually suspicious and believed him innocent. That's why I added later a wish for people not to follow my example.
What I don't understand is why are you drawing a connection of my brief mentioning of silent ones (including you) in suspicious light and Ang's death. Care to elaborate yourself?

One thing we see here in this Valier's post is a person being jumpy. I think she over-reacts a small suspicion. That's all I say about her (unless I'm mistaken): I think we should pay attention to Caralondien, Naria and Valier. Just because they will otherwise just go unnoticed. ... I just fear that (a) silent wolf/wolves will slip unnoticed when loud villagers/wolves/lovers/gifteds hang each other. Not really an accusation but there she is counter-attacking me ragingly. A jumpy wolf with bad nerves?

[Thinlómien]

Ah! And it's so interesting to find out that Valier doesn't eat sheep. Maybe she prefers humans? :P

I'm a bit worried about spawn. Why, you might ask. I agree that she's been sensible and convincing. And that's the problem with her. I'm worried that I trust her and I'm worried that other people trust her as well. If she's a wolf or a lover, we're in a big bad trouble, if the game continues like this concerning suspicions towards her.

[Formendacil]

Okay, first off... let me say:

"I told you so!" :p

No, I did. I said that Garin was playing perfectly to form, and was an Ordo. You didn't believe me, ergo, he is dead.

Anyway, moving on from this moment of ego to the death of Anguirel, I find it a heartening choice on the part of wolves. Not to dishonour Anguirel's memory or anything, but the fact that the wolves only got an Ordo last night is encouraging. Too many of these games end in a Wolvish victory because the Seer died right away.

That said, I'm not sure that analysis of Anguirel yesterday will help us a lot. Personally, I'm not the best analyser, so maybe I'm not the one who should be making this judgement, but it didn't seem to me that Anguirel left a lot of hardcore suspicions- unless one counts the Hedgehog King. :p

As for looking at yesterday's votes, I'm interested to see what people come up with, but I'd be hesitant about using them to convict people. I believe that TGWBS has said that we have nine people who voted for Garin? If so, then that's half the village. We could have all four Werewolves hiding in there, and still have a greater chance of taking out one of the Village Team.

The point has also been made already (my apologies, I forget by whom) that the wolves may very well have not been around to vote at the end of the day, it being a Day 1.

Personally, I'm hesitant to accuse anyone based on the time of their vote. Lhuna, for example, has been suspected of wolvery in every game she's played (albeit incorrectly each time), but because of the timezones, she's typically an early voter. In this game, because of advantageous timezones, she's naturally going to be voting near the end.

Oh, and speaking of Lhuna, I find the idea of her and me being the Lovers to be... amusing. I wouldn't have put it past Nilp to match the two of us up...

I'll be back in an hour or two with more thoughts...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gurthang, what are you talking about? No-one's saying so-and-so can't be a wolf. We're trying to determine likely wolf behaviour! We have to place a certain degree of trust in some people. If someone has a good voting record and speaks a lot of sense, and is helpful in tracking wolves, then it speaks in their favour somewhat.

Of course they could still be a wolf, but we are meant to weigh up evidence. If a wolf is not likely to take a certain course of action then it is likely that someone taking said course is not a wolf.

Likely, not definitely. We can't suspect everyone equally.

Anyway, another thought. Someone pointed out (with good reason) that the wolves can afford to lose one of their number in order to take out the Seer. So if Glirdan is a wolf then it's entirely feasible for the wolf-team to kill Anguirel (who voted for Glirdan) and let Glirdan fend for himself.

So, Glirdan....you're a wolf. :p

Farael, Kath and Lalaith all make fair defensive points. I'm still watching them.

[Lalaith]

My dear old harp-plucker. In post 162, you said I was odd and promised to tell why later. Then in post 176, you said I was very suspicious and you'd explain why later. I was getting all excited!
But this, I agree with.
We have to have suspects...
...so I bear you no ill will. It's all early days and everyone is clutching at straws. I know I am.

I need to vote in a couple of hours, I hope I can get some time to read through everything...I have to go by the theory that Ang said something of significance, because that's the only theory we have right now to narrow down the list of suspects.

[littlemanpoet]

But I still say we need to figure out what is going on between Eomer and LMP before anything else.Sorry, I have been away stone-cutting all Day so far. I took one half hour rest which I spent reading as far as I could in the Daily Chisel of goings on here. Now to answer your (and others') question about my half of the "LMP/Eomer" thing.

As you may recall, the only information of note that stood out to me were the early post by Lhuna and the mysterious defense of her by Eomer, and I requested further information from both of them. Lhuna finally answered today. Eomer's answer was more mystery. Then, when he voted for me, he claimed open-ended reasoning that could have been interpreted in at least three different ways besides the way he finally told us toDay that he really meant. He said that he is expendable, but I could see Eomer in any role saying that.

I wanted to keep from spreading the nominee list any further than 6. When I voted, there were already 6 nominees. Of those who had already received votes, only Eomer seemed remotely suspicious to me. Lhuna also looked suspicious, since her 'wise advice' to us all not to spread the voting too thin was something that any reasonably experienced player knows already, and her having said it made her look helpful while not really being helpful.

In addition, it was a not unreasonable hypothesis that Lhuna & Eomer are the Lovers. His bold, even blatant, defense of her in his very first post of the game, is the kind of thing I would not put past Eomer. So I was looking at those two as my primary candidates. Lhuna had no votes and the stronger case as such looked to go with Eomer. Thus, my vote. That he had voted for me did play a small factor, but not as large as it seems at first glance.

Now I must go back to reading to try to catch up; currently I'm at about page 4 of the Daily Chisel, which has published so far toDay some 6 pages. Back with more soon....

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

So why all this talk of a set-up of Kath? Both Lalaith and Cailín mention that the death of Anguirel so obviously leads back to Kath that it must be a set-up.

Huh? I find that funny, too. I'd like to point out that not all Nightly deaths are frame-ups. The wolves want to find the Seers, and since there are two of them now, it's even more important for the lycans to quickly get rid of the them. I just don't understand why wolves would see so much trouble in framing someone up. Anguirel might have been killed because of him defending Garin or whatever, but it's weird that these two say that the wolves obviously set Kath up. Maybe Kath is a wolf. Maybe Lalaith and Cailín are wolves who did set her up. Maybe I'll change the subject before I get myself confused. Just one more thing about this:

Well, he's not a Seer, so it seems like a set-up.So, if Anguirel had been a Seer, it wouldn't have been a set-up and we'd be all questioning Kath with good reasons? The fact that Anguirel was an ordinary villager instead of a Seer doesn't chance the wolves' motives to kill him. They didn't know who he was.

I must say, though, that defending Garin so strongly hinted to Anguirel's possible Seerishness more than mentioning Kath. I just wonder the talk of the 'frame-up'.

Lalaith, if wolf-Kath had killed Anguirel then it would not look obvious, considering that Anguirel had accused me in like manner and actually voted for Glirdan. Why should it lead back to Kath at all? Have you mentioned how it seriously leads back to me or Glirdan?And that's a good point, too.

I need to vote soon. I shall now go to do some serious rereading...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lalaith, I have done you a disservice. I promise you that something in your posts felt a bit worrying to me earlier today; but I have nothing of much substance to back it up.

So you're not 'extremely wolvish' anymore. ;)

Think of the votes yesterday. Anguirel got some, so did Eomer and LMP and Glirdan and TGWBS plus.....? Don't know off the top of my head.

But...

Either all the votes were wrong, or more than one was right. Right? So maybe Glirdan and LMP and TGWBS and Eomer are the 4 wolves and they had to pick one of their Seer candidates who voted for one of them (Anguirel voted for Glirdan)...

...or...

...no-one cast a vote for a wolf, and the wolves guessed that Anguirel was a Seer based on his defence of Garin.

In which case (perhaps) the people who voted in a certain way are completely off. Some people are convinced by others' arguments; but supposed random votes or votes based on very loose reasoning may tell us more. I'm not talking about obviously random votes or that kind of stuff.

But votes like 'So-and-so feels a bit strange to me. Can't explain'

If these picked out a wolf, then the wolves would kill whoever cast the vote.

EXAMPLE: I voted for LMP pretty randomly, but I worded it in such a way that everyone thought there was something sinister or clever about it. If LMP were a wolf then he might have wanted to kill me for it. But I'm still here.

Total speculation. But I think that, out of the people who garnered votes yesterday, either none is a wolf, or more than one is.

That would be (still surviving) LMP, TGWBS, Eomer, Glirdan and.....? Who've I missed? I'll edit with the answer.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Farael and Lalaith also got votes. If I ever need to remind myself why that's important then I'll figure it out. Ooh, Cailín votes for Lalaith. I'll keep that in mind seeing how I mentioned their behaviour earlier today. Wolf-on-wolf early vote? You just never know.

Anyway, it would be utter madness for the Lovers to hint. What could they possibly benefit? And LMP, my alleged strong defence of Lhuna (entirely because she's my little sister) was somewhat balanced by my suggestion that probability dictates that she will be a wolf one of these days. I also put her on my suspicion list today.

Listen to the wise words of Spawn, she knows all about set-ups and how those who design them get what's coming to them in the end. ;)

[Valier]

Thin I was not counteracting you ragingly! I said I would look at who voted for Glirdan after I did. I was surprised to see you had voted for him as well. I think we tend to agree on most points( except my innocence) and this time you probably got the same feeling of weirdness about Glirdan. I just don't see why you always think me to be a wolf. No offence to Glirdan, but in most games he is strange and in this one he has a change of heart and talks more using big words to garnish his posts.;) Eonwe's vote is unacceptable! Not because it is for me, but Eonwe is always lacking in posts and reason, which makes it hard to tell when he is a wolf. After I just mentioned his weirdness he very randomly votes for me. I can't help think he is a wolf that tends to panic.

Thin so I see you found my subliminal message!:p I was simply implying that I don't eat any meat. I am way to sweet for that! *smiles sweetly* I am strictly a herbivor. I thought you might see that and believe me THIS time of my innocence.

[Lalaith]

I think this talk of frame-ups, alleged or otherwise, is just smoke and red herrings.
Earlier on today, I said:
I think the wolves are more interested in finding Seers than in framing anyone, right now
I will be basing my vote at least partly on this premise.
the wolves guessed that Anguirel was a Seer based on his defence of Garin. In which case (perhaps) the people who voted in a certain way are completely off
Unfortunately I think this is true, which doesn't give me as much guidance as I'd like.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

If I had voted for one, I would have been a bandwagoning wolf. Now that I chose not to vote for either, I'm a noncomittal werewolf. Is this a confession - that you're a wolf whatever you do, eh? You know, as far as I know there hasn't been much suspicion of Samwise who 'climbed a Garin bandwagon'. That's because he saved us from a possible death of two innocents.

I could buy it that you're stubborn enough to vote the one you want to even if there's a tie, but that doesn't match with your new, more apologetic behaviour.


Since post #149 (by Samwise) other people have made good points of Lhuna. When I add them to my case (#164), I find you the most wolvish villager toDay.

++Lhunardawen


Listen to the wise words of Spawn, she knows all about set-ups and how those who design them get what's coming to them in the end. ;) Thanks. ;)

[Formendacil]

Is this a confession - that you're a wolf whatever you do, eh? You know, as far as I know there hasn't been much suspicion of Samwise who 'climbed a Garin bandwagon'. That's because he saved us from a possible death of two innocents.

I could buy it that you're stubborn enough to vote the one you want to even if there's a tie, but that doesn't match with your new, more apologetic behaviour.

It does look bad for Lhuna, I'll grant, but I wonder if we ought to maybe be taking a closer peek at Samwise? I don't seriously suspect him, but the possibility is there that, in defending Garin, in believing him innocent, he was acting on Wolfish knowledge... After all, who, in all this village, knows who all are Wolve and who are Not? Just the wolves.

That said, I don't seriously harbour doubts about Samwise. But it is something that we shouldn't completely forget, either.

Anyway, it would be utter madness for the Lovers to hint. What could they possibly benefit?

I agree with you entirely, and if you or any of our experienced, greatly intelligent players is the Lover, then I would say that hints are completely unlikely.

That said, human nature is such that if one of more foolhardy, less-experienced players was a Lover, it's entirely possible that they could deliberately hint, not thinking through the situation as best they might.

So I'd keep an eye out for Loverly Pairs anyway... They won't be casting suspicion on each other (except as a decoy), and one of them may possibly let something slip.

[Caranlondien]

I think the wolves are more interested in finding Seers than in framing anyone, right now

I agree. I think we've been wasting time toDay... but let's not argue about whether we've been wasting time, because that will waste time, too ;)

Okay, I think LMP is looking suspicious. His attack on Eomer and Lhuna as the lovers has come across pretty strong. But I'm not inclined to think their behavior suggests them as lovers. Despite what I said yesterDay about keeping our eyes open for both wolves and lovers, I think that evidence for lovers will be harder to collect. I doubt that the lovers would want to do anything to connect themselves with one another, and they would at least hide their defenses of each other within larger lists of suspected/not suspected.

I'm also somewhat skeptical about TGWBS. Much as he may idolize our dear prophet, his continuous declaration that he is a wolf has so far worked. Yes, he did come close to being lynched yesterDay. But he wasn't. I just think we should keep our eyes on him, and not definitively rule him out.

And finally,

I'm a bit worried about spawn. Why, you might ask. I agree that she's been sensible and convincing. And that's the problem with her. I'm worried that I trust her and I'm worried that other people trust her as well. If she's a wolf or a lover, we're in a big bad trouble, if the game continues like this concerning suspicions towards her.

I agree. Helpfulness doesn't rule someone out as a possible wolf.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Formendacil

[Cailín]

The sheer size of this village makes it almost impossible for one with limited time available to keep up, and I think most of us are very eager to simply vote for the loudest. This makes it extremely easy for quiet, subtle wolves to hide. However, I fear nothing can be done about it right now – except we need to lynch some people, fast. *that sounds rather…bloodthirsty*

I shall just look into the people drawing attention for now. Glirdan previously analysed the very quiet, and found little to nothing. Voting records will tell us more soon, I hope.

As for speculating why Anguirel got lynched, it was probably more of a why not? question, though I cannot get rid of the feeling that the wolves thought to have caught a Seer.

Anyone else in favour of lynching another guy tonight? Rid the wolves of the male population and increase our chances of finding the Lover soon? Heheh. I bet the Ordo-Lover will vote for a female player tonight. So, starting with the girrrls:

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant

I cannot play a game without suspecting her. However, she has made a great deal of sense. To answer your question, Spawn:

So, if Anguirel had been a Seer, it wouldn't have been a set-up and we'd be all questioning Kath with good reasons? The fact that Anguirel was an ordinary villager instead of a Seer doesn't chance the wolves' motives to kill him. They didn't know who he was.

No. As I said before, Kath could not possibly be a wolf thinking the Seer found her. Ang didn’t pursue her further, did he? He would have had he been a suicidal Seer. I think it’s the Seer hints, combined with the righteous defence of Garin that got them thinking. I’m merely speculating, however. Like you, I’m trying to make sense of it all.

Kath

Kath has over the past few games specialised in the act of being suspicious, so I tend to be lenient. Her vote for Eomer resembles… something, which makes me immediately alert. On the other hand, Eomer has history against him. Since it is Day 1, the vote doesn’t look too weird.

There’s been little input from Kath toDay. I cannot suspect her on so little evidence. However, I shall be watching her closely.

Lhunardawen

Cases against Lhuna have been made a lot toDay already. I sympathise with most arguments, however, I think she is blamed too much for leaving the tie. She knew Dancing Spawn was still around, as were a few others. It’s hard to believe she meant to orchestrate a double lynch. Her vote was relatively safe, and little explained, but not extraordinary. Maybe I am misled, but Lhuna does not seem the most wolvish. Probably she is merely adjusting from not coping with timezone diseases.

Lalaith

Well, on first sight Lalaith strikes me as an ordinary. I voted for her yesterDay… admittedly, because I wished to cast my vote for someone 1) who had been around already 2) who would certainly be around later 3) by whose reaction I could somehow maybe find something on them, while I normally would just allow her to slip beneath the radar. Of course, she handled the situation perfectly, as may be expected from an experienced player. Her vote for TGWBS seems not so unreasoned as Lhuna would have it appear. TGWBS would be just the sort of person trying to get away with saying “I’m a wolf” as much as possible, just to be able to gloat later on.

Her posts toDay are rather general, helpful in a non-commiting way. She seems a typical ordinary. I don’t suspect her too much.

Thinlomien

Well, Lommy appears on the list because she’s such a genuinely nice girl. Ho-hum. She spent the first day agreeing with others… She seems to consider all sides of the argument, which is a very Dutch and unproductive way to go about things. Then suddenly she follows Anguirel, voting Glirdan whom she did not suspect before. Later on, she states she made a wrong decision. Did she try to align herself with an innocent? Convenient that Ang died last night, then. This is odd though. And really very nice, too.

Today she considers Lhuna’s case, and points our attention towards the silent ones. She further says nothing particularly interesting, except for a slight concern she might be trusting Spawn too much (and don’t we all?). I’m a bit worried about you, Thin.

The other girls / women did not make close examining for various reasons. Tar-ancalime I find, makes good sense and contributes to the discussion. Celuien I need around for therapeutical reasons. Besides, she has not done anything truly suspicious – her vote for Garin is incriminating, but hardly wolvish. I’m still undecided about newcomer Caranlondien and Valier is her usual annoying self. Naria has said too little. As always.

[Formendacil]

Lot's of interesting thoughts there, Cailín. Your remarks about Thinlómien quoted just below gave me a thought:

Well, Lommy appears on the list because she’s such a genuinely nice girl. Ho-hum. She spent the first day agreeing with others… She seems to consider all sides of the argument, which is a very Dutch and unproductive way to go about things. Then suddenly she follows Anguirel, voting Glirdan whom she did not suspect before. Later on, she states she made a wrong decision. Did she try to align herself with an innocent? Convenient that Ang died last night, then. This is odd though. And really very nice, too.

Today she considers Lhuna’s case, and points our attention towards the silent ones. She further says nothing particularly interesting, except for a slight concern she might be trusting Spawn too much (and don’t we all?). I’m a bit worried about you, Thin.

There was a wolf once, back in a village that some of you may remember (Amanaduial, in my game, XVI), who was new at the game, and tried to take a very balanced view of things, looking at all sides of the situation, and consequently being accused of flip-flopping, and ultimately got lynched.

Is it possible that we have a similar case here? I'm inclined to think not, since Thinlómien has a few games of experience under her belt from the Junior string of games. However, she also claims that is her normal playing style. If so, it would be excellent cover for a Werewolf. Alas, I have not played with her, and I've barely dipped my toes into the games I've not played, so I do not know if she's playing to her normal standard or not...

On to another topic:

The interesting thought occured to me that the three main candidates up for lynching last night were male: Garin, Glirdan, and TGWBS. Is it possible, that in the flurry of tying/tie-breaking votes there at the end that one of our female players was trying to save- or did save- her lover?

[Valier]

Valier is her usual annoying self.I totally take offence to this! Saying I'm strange or weird ok...but ANNOYING! I shall go pout now! *POUTS*:( :mad:

[Cailín]

So, the men.

Littlemanpoet

Well, he has always been a bit on the defensive side, I daresay. Now that I see Eomer was indeed just being random, I have little reason to suspect him. Other than that he has said little enough, he does not come across as a wolvish fiend.

The guy who be short

I discussed him briefly earlier. His behaviour seems… rather odd. Of course, he was bound to vote for himself as a Nilp-fan, however, he has not yet dropped the act. As I said before, TGWBS the wolf would possibly be tempted to pull off such a mega-bluff. Since he made much sense toDay, aside from claiming he’s a wolf every 2 seconds, I shall direct my attention elsewhere.

Farael

An interesting player, Farael. He suspects Kath, he is supposed to be mentally afflicted, and yet manages to post coherently most of the time. I was initially very suspicious of him because he did not act out his profession and I am still wary. I’m sure Nilp would have killed himself even had we all voted for ourselves. What he says is not unreasonable, though.

Glirdan

Has bravely analysed the quiet villagers. This of course allows him to post without really voicing his own thoughts. A safe way out, were he fanged and hairy. He was in quite a dangerous spot for a while, yesterDay, and particularly because of Anguirel. His posting does seem different, as has been remarked upon before. Whether this is at his fellow wolves insistance or because he is a bored ordo trying a new style, I do not know. I am hesitant to believe Glirdan is the Lover, though.

Formendacil

Is clearly not Lhuna’s ‘secret’ Lover. Everyone knows, right? Aside from that, Formendacil seems no different than normal. Based on the same method he uses to determine our guilt, I’d say he’s guiltless. However, I am not certain.

Eonwe

Eonwe is getting on my nerves too. His vote seems so… utterly random. I would think – were he guilty – he’d be more into it, though.

I have not included detailed analysis of Eomer and SamwiseGamgee. I’d lie if I said I didn’t suspect Eomer, but what else is new? He confuses me too much to make a case against him, though. SamwiseGamgee I think is an innocent right now. I’m not sure, but he has said nothing really alarming.

I totally take offence to this! Saying I'm strange or weird ok...but ANNOYING! I shall go pout now! *POUTS*

Sorry Valier. It's not a crime to be annoying. :p

Formendacil - your thoughts about Thinlomien are similar to mine. However, and I hope you do not take offence, I would prefer to vote for one of my male suspects.

[littlemanpoet]

Up to #213 now....

After all, who, in all this village, knows who all are Wolve and who are Not? Just the wolves.Actually, there's a strong possibility that the Ordo-Lover also knows the identity of all 4 werewolves, told so by the Werewolf-Lover. Worth keeping in mind, I dare say.

[Naria]

Ok, I'm here--busy day,sorry. Looks like it's been a busy Day here as well. I will have to go back and read what everyone has said and try to come up with something. No promises(in regards to lots of substance)with such a big village and this early, but I will try.

[littlemanpoet]

Up to #214....

Okay, I think LMP is looking suspicious. His attack on Eomer and Lhuna as the lovers has come across pretty strong.Ahem. Please note that I was asked for an explanation of my Day 1 vote, and gave it. That explanation is not best read as an attack upon Lhuna and Eomer as Lovers, but as my rationale for yesterDay's vote.

I'll say now that there are a few individuals that have been so concise and well reasoned, and suspecting the same people I suspect, that I consider them to be (for the rest of toDay) above suspicion. They are: Eomer, Spawn, & tar-ancalime.

[Formendacil]

Up to #213 now....

Actually, there's a strong possibility that the Ordo-Lover also knows the identity of all 4 werewolves, told so by the Werewolf-Lover. Worth keeping in mind, I dare say.

That's a really interesting thought...

Are they allowed to do that?

More pertinently, is there any way we could hope for the village to extract those names from the Villager Lover?

Formendacil - your thoughts about Thinlomien are similar to mine. However, and I hope you do not take offence, I would prefer to vote for one of my male suspects.

Offence? Why should I take offence??? As long as I'm not that candidate, all is good. :p

I'm also not convinced by the Thinlómien case just yet. It's interesting, but there's not enough to go by just yet.

[the guy who be short]

So many ideas floating around...

Well, first thing's first, I agree that we should lynch a male. We increase our chances of grabbing the lover and killing two birds with one blunt rocky thing.

All my suspects today seem to be male anyway.

I have to say, I suspect Eomer quite a bit at the moment. He's simply not doing his research and being a bit too random for my liking.

Total speculation. But I think that, out of the people who garnered votes yesterday, either none is a wolf, or more than one is.
That's just completely fabricated. There's no reasoning behind this.


Think of the votes yesterday. Anguirel got some, so did Eomer and LMP and Glirdan and TGWBS plus.....? Don't know off the top of my head.
If he didn't know, why not check? It's hardly difficult.

Plus the whole LMP vote was just odd.

Overall, it really does look like he's just trying to sow confusion and chaos.


Gurthang still appears suspicious to me, as does Farael. A self vote would hardly have ended the world at that time.

[littlemanpoet]

Are they allowed to do that?

'You shall have two Lovers in this village, one from the ranks of the villagers, and one from the Werewolves. They shall PM each other but once during the DAY and once during the NIGHT, for their love is a secret love, and a deadly one. The Lovers will die together--if one is lynched, or killed by the Werewolves, or struck dead by the Mod God, the other shall join him in the gloom of underworld. They shall win if they are left together with but one person, be the survivor innocent or guilty.

I see no restriction as to content in this "commandment", so apparently, "yes".

[Naria]

I see no restriction as to content in this "commandment", so apparently, "yes".

I never would have thought that they could do this. It makes matters worse, does it not? With the five of them having the ordo list. Or maybe it should, in theory, make our jobs a little easier--finding slip ups from them. Aaargh!! Thanks Lmp if my head wasn't trapped in a cloud of confusion before, it sure is now. :eek:

I'll be back soon.

[Valier]

Sorry Valier. It's not a crime to be annoying.
No it is not a crime, but it is a nasty thing to say that I am my usual annoying self.

I am sorry if my annoying demeanor is a bother to you...All I have to say is...BOTHER,BOTHER,BOTHER!

As for the talk of killing a male tonight I can see why this could help us weed out the lover wolf. How is this going to work if the other two wolves are female?
My Suspisions are:
Eonwe
Cailin
Thinlomien
Glirdan
(This may change in times to come but I gotta go *pouting* still to do homework, I will be back later)

[SamwiseGamgee]

Wow, amazing what you miss in 12 hours, eh?!

So, what am I thinking? Well, my suspicions are still mainly on Lhuna. I don't think she's explained herself at all well and unless I see something more substantial either 1. in her defence or 2. to incriminate someone else I'll be voting for her before nightfall.

I've had a look back and tried to pick apart anything and everything Ang said, and this is my result: not much! I agree with others who've said that the wolves really need to find the seers if they want to have any real chance of winning this game, and so I can only say- in shameless plagirism of others- that they based their decision on the hedgehogs speaking to him thing ( :confused: ). The other possibility is that they just did it at random, in which case my analysis has been for nought.

LMP, I'm very unhappy with you for post #219. :mad: If the lovers hadn't thought of this then you must be their favourite person in the whole village right now! Unless, of course, you already shared the information with your unfortunate beau? I don't think so, though. I think you just had an idea, didn't think and posted it. I'm inclined to forgive you, simply because I'm not sure I'd have done any differently myself.

Eonwe's vote is crazy. Two days, two thoroughly random votes. Is he a caution-to-the-wind wolf or just a downright unhelpful villager? Whatever he is, he made my list.

Eomer, for the minute, I think is probably innocent. Ok, so some of his posts are pure conjecture, but sometimes fuzzy logic is good. But he's a clever guy, and I must sadly admit that I may never learn to trust him. :p

[littlemanpoet]

LMP, I'm very unhappy with you for post #219. :mad: If the lovers hadn't thought of this then you must be their favourite person in the whole village right now! Unless, of course, you already shared the information with your unfortunate beau? I don't think so, though. I think you just had an idea, didn't think and posted it. I'm inclined to forgive you, simply because I'm not sure I'd have done any differently myself.Sorry to ruin your day. I only just thought of it before I posted it up. However, I expect that I haven't told the Lovers anything they didn't already realize, since they were right in the middle of "what shall we talk about?" already on Night 1. I said it because I think all us ordos need to keep it mind for our own sakes.

[the guy who be short]

You can hardly blame LMP for pointing that out. It was quite obvious.

I need bed.

++Eomer

[Lalaith]

Oh, come on you lot. I would have thought it was completely obvious that the wolf lover would confide all to his/her ord girl/boy...if the lovers needed lmp to point out to them the benefits of sharing knowledge then frankly.... :rolleyes: No - we can be sure that the only thing those two don't know right now is the identity of the Seers.
I also note that a lot of people have completely ignored the urging of myself and (I think) tar-a, earlier today, NOT to talk about pair-ish behaviour, while both Seers were alive, for fear of outing them. It's a free world of course, but...

I need to go off now, and I'm still not sure who to vote for. I'm still inclined to the theory that it was the Garin defence that did for Ang which actually tells us very little about wolf identity...
I am right, I think, in saying that everyone has now posted today except for Celuien?
I'd like to have heard more from her. And I'm worried about the other quiet ones who have barely posted, as well.
Some points as I ponder:
I'm worried that I trust her and I'm worried that other people trust her as well. (Lommy )
This is ever the problem with madame spawn. Ditto tar-a. She's just scarily sensible. Actually, regarding the laundress, I'm encountering a bit more obstruseness than I would expect amid the usual spawnish clarity. I would also agree that Lhuna is troubling - the failure to break the double-lynch...hmmm...
Of our loudmouths, Eomer is, as many have pointed out, somewhat erratic, and lmp unusually quiet. But actually, someone else is being unusual. Eonwe is often random, yes, but usually there is more sense among the randomness than we have seen so far. Something's not right. So
++EONWE

[SamwiseGamgee]

LMP, that's actually very amusing. Imagine that awkward 'first date' PM:
"So... you come here often?" :D But your point is fair: the lovers won't be squandering the 1 PM they have, so they had probably already thought of it.

TGWBS, are you going to bother explaining your vote? Seriously, guys, we're making it so easy for those lupinous cretins if we just vote with no reason attatched other than being tired. :rolleyes:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Why so angry at LMP, Samwise? His ideas threaten the village not one jot.

TGWBS:

I'm sowing confusion? :rolleyes:

What was odder? A random vote designed to gauge reaction; or asking to be lynched and confusing the entire village?

There is reasoning behind my silly little idea, it's just that it's terrible. I was typing in a rush as the thoughts entered my head. And I did go back and check a few minutes later, and then posted the relevant information about who had garnered votes. I just waited until I had finished my post before scrabbling around for the necessary name. It's ok to put things off for a few minutes, you know.

My point (which was not put well at all) was that perhaps it's likely that the wolves would kill someone who had voted for a wolf, in the hope of getting a Seer. It's unlikely they'd kill Anguirel randomly. So either Glirdan is a wolf or we were way off in our voting yesterday.

Not indubitable; but not the absolute worst idea you'll ever hear.

That's why I'm probably going to vote for Glirdan. If he's innocent then I'm inclined to think that certain others (LMP, for example) are innocent; because if they were wolves they would be looking for the Seer in amongst the people who voted for them.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I must disagree, Eomer. If the non lupine lover knows the names of the wolves they could pose as a seer and lead us all on a merry dance, could they not? Or am I just being silly?

[Celuien]

Just got back. It's been a busy day.
I'll study the village scrolls and return shortly.

[Glirdan]

Anyway, another thought. Someone pointed out (with good reason) that the wolves can afford to lose one of their number in order to take out the Seer. So if Glirdan is a wolf then it's entirely feasible for the wolf-team to kill Anguirel (who voted for Glirdan) and let Glirdan fend for himself.

So, Glirdan....you're a wolf. :p (Eomer)

Oh no, the gig is up!! :rolleyes: Just kidding!!

No offence to Glirdan, but in most games he is strange and in this one he has a change of heart and talks more using big words to garnish his posts. ;) (Valier)

Well, is it working?? I do realize that Im' playing much more boldly then I normally would, but I like it. Especially since I have time...for now.

I think the wolves are more interested in finding Seers than in framing anyone, right now. (Lalaith)

I'm not so sure that they would completely forget about framing the rest of us. But I do agree that they probably far more interested in findig the Seers then framing us. Yet, I think that they would (subconciously mind you) still attempt to frame others. I find that this would be a pretty good way of smoking out a Seer. If someone attacked one who was an innocent and the Seer knew that person was innocent, I believe that the automatic reaction would be to defend that person. In doing so, the Wolves would go for that person. That seems to be the case with what happened to Ang.

If I had voted for one, I would have been a bandwagoning wolf. Now that I chose not to vote for either, I'm a noncomittal werewolf.(Lhuny)

Is this a confession??

And what's this??

It does look bad for Lhuna, I'll grant, but I wonder if we ought to maybe be taking a closer peek at Samwise?(Form)

A Lover trying to shift suspicion of he partner?? Hmm... I'm getting suspicious of Gurthang and Lhuna now.

The interesting thought occured to me that the three main candidates up for lynching last night were male: Garin, Glirdan, and TGWBS. Is it possible, that in the flurry of tying/tie-breaking votes there at the end that one of our female players was trying to save- or did save- her lover?(Gurth)

Hmmm...Even though my name is up on that list, I must say that I'm having the same thoughts. Yet that doesn't mean we have to rule out the others who weren't up there.

Glirdan

Has bravely analysed the quiet villagers. This of course allows him to post without really voicing his own thoughts. A safe way out, were he fanged and hairy. He was in quite a dangerous spot for a while, yesterDay, and particularly because of Anguirel. His posting does seem different, as has been remarked upon before. Whether this is at his fellow wolves insistance or because he is a bored ordo trying a new style, I do not know. I am hesitant to believe Glirdan is the Lover, though.(Cailin)

First off, I did voice suspicionis after I did my analysis on them. As I've said before quite a few times, yes, I did change my style. But that's only because I was completely sick and tired of being quiet and getting suspicion for it and I wanted to be more helpful to the village. Every other time I've always felt useless. Now, I feel like I'm actually contributing and helping out. So, I guess you can say that I'm "a bored ordo trying a new style".

Is clearly not Lhuna’s ‘secret’ Lover. Everyone knows, right? Aside from that, Formendacil seems no different than normal. Based on the same method he uses to determine our guilt, I’d say he’s guiltless. However, I am not certain.(Cailin)

And why's that?? I haven't seen any defense from him saying why he can't be. Now I'm actually starting to think that you might be his 'secret' Lover. Why? Well, you're feeling jealous that everyone is thinking that Lhuna is it and you want to put a stop to it.

My point (which was not put well at all) was that perhaps it's likely that the wolves would kill someone who had voted for a wolf, in the hope of getting a Seer. It's unlikely they'd kill Anguirel randomly. So either Glirdan is a wolf or we were way off in our voting yesterday.

Not indubitable; but not the absolute worst idea you'll ever hear.

That's why I'm probably going to vote for Glirdan. If he's innocent then I'm inclined to think that certain others (LMP, for example) are innocent; because if they were wolves they would be looking for the Seer in amongst the people who voted for them.(Eomer)

If I may ask you one thing Eomer: if I was a Wolf, why on Arda would I want to attack someone who voted for me the previous Day when I know full well that it would put me under suspicion??

I will probably have to vote soon. I'll be back after I have some supper.

[Lalaith]

I repeat. Samwise, Form, Lmp. You're all intelligent men. Are you telling us that it never occurred to any of you, until Lmp thought of it just now, that the wolf lover wouldn't tell all to his ord lover?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Haha! Glirdan, it does indeed put you under suspicion.

BUT WAIT!

No-one even brought it up at the start of the day. It was all about how bad it looks for Kath. :rolleyes:

I would have thought that the wolves would have jumped on this opportunity to get at poor innocent Glirdan.

And they haven't (because I'm not a wolf).

So, why not?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lalaith speaking more and more sense. Funny how your opinion of people changes through the day. :D

Her vote for Eonwe is justified, because he's apparently trying to leave no trail. That could be said for others.

The wolves won't kill TGWBS and we're going to lynch him before the end anyway. We might as well kill him now. And I admit that it's his vote for me that really got me thinking this way. :rolleyes:

But despite his charade, I can read some sense in his posts. Do others think this way?

Farael, Kath...

Gah! I have to vote now. Mmmm....one moment please.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Glirdan, in post #235 you say that Gurthang said we should be taking a closer look at me, but it was Form in #213. I add this to Eomer's question.

Lalaith, I'll admit that the thought hadn't occurred to me. :( Intelligent, but not overly so! :rolleyes:

[SamwiseGamgee]

Sorry, just as explanation: I raise Glirdan's error simply because I'm a very suspicious guy, and I can't see why he'd make that mistake.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Glirdan, in a wolf-team of 4, you are expendable. Like it or not. Anguirel might have been the Seer and he might have nabbed you. But perhaps your wolves would have picked the person who voted for you first. I think Anguirel was not the first. That counts in your favour.

++KATH

Good night, lovelies!

[SamwiseGamgee]

Just so we all know, night is set to fall somewhat early, so don't be caught out by not casting thy mighty vote!

[Glirdan]

Glirdan, in post #235 you say that Gurthang said we should be taking a closer look at me, but it was Form in #213. I add this to Eomer's question.(Samwise)

Simple: I wan't paying attention (not that that's someting new :rolleyes: ). I just went back and yes, I realise now that it was Formendacil. I'll go correct that.

So, why not?(Eomer)

So why not what?? Why not attack Ang? Because, I had enough suspicion is it was yesterDay and I was going to start off toDay in pretty rough shape as well: Garin being innocent and Ang's vote for me. Yes it's true that I didn't get it right at the start (and I must say that I'm quite surprised at that) but it was only a matter of time until it happened and would you look at that! Do you really think I'm that stupid??

Anyway, I must vote yet I'm unsure whom to vote for... I'll be back in a few minutes with it...

[Thinlómien]

TGWBS you and your wolf proclaiming annoy me. I happened to look the WWJ-thread and there Fea proclaimed she was a wolf and was found to be one. That example surely doesn't benefit you. Also, I'm wondering why are you putting all this "I'm a wolf" show up. I can see two possible reasons: 1. You are a wolf and want to look like too weird to be a wolf. 2. You want to create suspicion so that you won't get killed by the wolves. Either way, I don't like your tactics.


Well, Lommy appears on the list because she’s such a genuinely nice girl. A phrase that I would normally take as a compliment sounds like an accusation in a game of WW. :rolleyes:

(All quotes by Cailín)
Ho-hum. She spent the first day agreeing with others… That's the only thing you can do if you want to participate and don't have any great new ideas. I wasn't merely agreeing, though, I was also making comments on ideas. (Not that that's much more, but...)
She seems to consider all sides of the argument, which is a very Dutch and unproductive way to go about things. What should I do then? Say a half of my thoughts and appear short-sighted and more importantly, desert my point. Then suddenly she follows Anguirel, voting Glirdan whom she did not suspect before. I can't recall that I was voicing suspicions of anyone on Day 1. So, following that logic whoever I had voted would have brought that accusation against me. Lovely. Later on, she states she made a wrong decision. Ummm... I probably did. As I said before I didn't have time to go through all older posts and had no idea who to vote so I just voted someone who seemed a bit suspicious and who had gathered some votes, so I wouldn't doom Garin, who I assumed was maybe innocent. Later, I got a chance to skim through Glirdan's posts and didn't find anything suspicious there, so I told my fellow villagers that I believed him probably innocent.Did she try to align herself with an innocent? Convenient that Ang died last night, then. This is odd though. And really very nice, too. Care to explain a bit?Today she considers Lhuna’s case, and points our attention towards the silent ones. She further says nothing particularly interesting, except for a slight concern she might be trusting Spawn too much (and don’t we all?). If you think that's uninteresting I think most of the people here (not all though) haven't said anything much more interesting. I’m a bit worried about you, Thin. You should be. I might get to be a lynched innocent.

As to my suspicions... I'm again afraid of the silent ones. Valier's response makes me feel less suspicious about her. Still, I don't understand why is she using code language.

Naria is scarily silent. I may vote her.

Lhuna is a bit suspicious. I'm not going to repost all the arguments against her, but I do find her a bit strange.

Further suspicions need more reading.

And I seem to have xposted with a lot of people.

[Glirdan]

Firstly, I cross posted with Eomer and Samwise up there ( :rolleyes: ).

Secondly, I'm going to cast my vote....

++Naria

As I said earlier, I'm very unnerved by quiet people and Naria definetly fits that category. Good luck everyone and may we find a Wolf.

[Thinlómien]

I admit I have no idea about the wolves and I'm going to vote soon. I try to skim through my main suspects' posts to have an idea if they're wolvish or not, so I won't be maing the same error as yesterday.

I admit that Lhuna is very suspicious but I don't think this comment If I had voted for one, I would have been a bandwagoning wolf. Now that I chose not to vote for either, I'm a noncomittal werewolf. is extremely wolvish. Really, I'd rather consider one of a villager's bored to being suspicious about only because a stupid vote she regrets (?).

[Celuien]

Anyway, why do people keep picking up on this supposed 'master-plan' of mine? What are you talking about? I wanted to make it obvious that I was voting for LMP pretty much randomly. I wanted to see what kind of reaction it would get. I wanted to see if anyone would vote for me because of this random vote; and I wanted to see if anyone would bandwagon on LMP because of my random vote. Either way can look suspicious.

That's what I figured. Among a few other possibilties.

Did the wolves think this was a clue that he would have been a Seer? Maybe Anguirel wasn't killed because of the people he mentioned, but the way he talked.

Agreed. Some of his in-character ramblings from yesterday could look like Seer hints. And he was a very formidable, intelligent opponent. Both good reasons for the wolves to attack him.

So I've glanced through everything once in a desparate effort to almost catch up and am working on a more detailed read (up to page 5 :rolleyes:).

Among those of us remaining:

Probable innocent:
the guy who be short - yes, he's being very, very strange. But it's classic Nilpesque weirdness. When he's not being suicidal or declaring himself a wolf, he's actually made a number of good points, particularly with regard to the voting record from yesterday.
littlemanpoet - has not done anything particularly lupine. Voted for Eomer yesterday, a move I'd disagree with (see below), but one that's understandable.
Eomer - interesting plan yesterday. Seems genuinely analytic and not playing both sides the way a faux-helpful wolf would. I think.
spawn - similar reasoning to Eomer.
tar-a - same as above.
Formendacil - again. Ditto.

I'm off to take a good look at Farael, Kath and Glirdan.

[Thinlómien]

I'm facing a choice between Lhuna and Naria. The first one has been acting suspiciously (though only one vote, no more, no less) and the second one hasn't said anything but nonsense. All the time I'm fearing we are after wrong people. As I'm fearing now about my own suspicions.

Naria has been speaking nonsense, rudely said. Her posts, if they have something to say, it's covered with humour. I don't find that very trustworthy. I do find her more suspicious than Lhuna. Lhuna at least has been speking sense at some points. I'll be watching her.

++Naria

EDIT: xposted with Celuien

[Cailín]

I only just realised when reading back that I completely forgot to analyse Gurthang. I apologise, Gurth, I did not mean to skip you.

As I am very tired and I cannot rely on waking early enough to vote before the deadline, since the Prophet stated it might be several hours early, I shall have to vote now...

I'm torn between voting Eonwe and Glirdan (I indicated before I seem to be starting a lynch-all-males campaign). Both of them scare me a little. But because Eonwe already has one, I suppose he shall get my vote tonight.

++EONWE

Here's to hoping we catch a wolf tonight. Sleep well, y'all.

[tar-ancalime]

++Eomer

Here's why:

tgwbs said:

Originally Posted by Eomer
Total speculation. But I think that, out of the people who garnered votes yesterday, either none is a wolf, or more than one is.
That's just completely fabricated. There's no reasoning behind this.


Think of the votes yesterday. Anguirel got some, so did Eomer and LMP and Glirdan and TGWBS plus.....? Don't know off the top of my head.
If he didn't know, why not check? It's hardly difficult.

Plus the whole LMP vote was just odd.

Overall, it really does look like he's just trying to sow confusion and chaos. (tgwbs #223)

Right on, tgwbs! And there's more:

Eomer made a big fuss about how Anguirel's accusation of him was a joke, early in the Day, and was no different from his accusation of Kath. But that's patently false! Here is Anguirel's accusation of Eomer; it's a comment on the Eomer/lmp interplay and vote exchange:

You mortally insult me, churl. But I don't trust the harper who accuses ye one bit, so I shall continue to remain aloof, with the backing of my uncle the North Wind. (Ang #69)

Anguirel clearly sides with lmp (the "mortal insult" was lmp's reference to Ang's mental instability).

So he's obscuring Anguirel's suspicion of him; he spends a lot of time today asking why everyone is focusing on how bad Ang's death makes Kath look; he makes a solid case against Farael; then he goes and votes for Kath? I don't buy it.

Of course, it might all be part of another "master plan." :rolleyes: