WWJ VIII ~ Things That Go "Quack" In The Night

[Kath]

Glirdy: His first post is pretty much nonsense, and includes accusations of SPM and Spawn that I'm inclined to look at as pure randomness. He's not said anything else except for two "Ho Hum, I'm herding trees elsewhere" posts.

Elu: Has basically just popped in once.
Taken from the same post by Jenny that you took your quotes from morm. Now, I realise since they are dead and I am alive I am naturally more suspicious :rolleyes: But the point is that she made little mention of these players as well. Just because she had no opinion on me at the time doesn't mean that she was trying to avoid mentioning me.

[Nogrod]

Good that you took that up Kath. I was wondering, should I check, were there others with over-rounded opinions in Jenny's post. Somehow Morm didn't manage to point all the cases out, just those suiting his purposes - as happened on his first post on dAY2...

I'll go and see for myself, naturally, but Morm: adding to this your sudden change of tone towards Spm after his last post... Well you seem to be topping my list again. But I really have to look back again, before saying anything more to either lean towards trusting or suspecting you more.

[Nogrod]

I was just going through the dAY1 talk, as I noted something of interest - something I had kind of forgot.

In the famous post #30 Morm condsiders the goose tactics (that was somewhat suspected later as giving advice to the actual goose)
Let's think about this shall we:

1. When dead the roles will not be revealed, this includes goose and owl.
2. If the owl proclaims him/herself we will not know of the truth unless we try his/her words.
3. The goose wants to help the Ducks
4. What better way to help than flush out the owl early on?

A strategem I would use, if I were the goose, would be to declare myself the owl on day 3, maybe day 2, and hope that the real owl declares themself. So if you are the real owl and an imposter declares themself, use your discretion.

Then Spm answered this in post #67 as follows:
To be believable, the Goose would have to declare one, probably two, “Ducks“. A wise Owl will remain silent - that should go (and should have gone) without saying. Either the Goose gets “lucky” and a Duck is lynched (in which case the Goose is failing in his or her task) or an innocent is lynched, swiftly followed by the Goose. But by identifying this as a potential risk, you make it more likely that a real Owl declaration, on Day 3 for example, will not be believed. On the contrary, I think that we should believe any Owl declaration. It can soon be accurately, and lethally for a Goose masquerading as an Owl, tested.

So what to make of it? If Glirdan was the goose (on dAY2), he actually obeyed Morm's advice? (But surely Morm vaguely backed it up with the last sentence? I know, Morm, this can be looked at more benevolently too: I'm just testing some Devil's advocate stuff here - if it brings you more true than false to my eyes, I will tell it in the end) If Glirdan was a goose, he totally disregarded Spm's warnings about "bad goose tactics" and did exactly what Spm thought really bad...?

[mormegil]

Yet Spawn seemed to do analysis of many people all known innocents exept me, but to me I am known to be innocent but I don't expect anybody to take my word on that of course.

The people against whom they spoke, with the exclusion of me, are all known innocents.

Do you choose to not read carefully or are you hoping to sway popular opinion by purposefully misrepresenting my words? You can read here that I, if not stated explicitly, implied that they did speak similarly of others, but they are all dead. However their behavior pattern was consistent in the way they treated the other ducks. That's the point I'm making. Nogrod is buying it...well done Kath.

[The Saucepan Man]

SpM you speak fair sense and it helps allay any doubt that you were converted on night 2. Well my good SpM what do you propose? I still think Kath highly suspect and want her lynched. I really would like to hear a bit more from Valier, as she is the only one I trust 100%When you said I spoke sense, I presume that you were referring to my comment about the dangers of focussing too much on you and Kath. Yet you continue to display a single-minded determination to see Kath lynched without considering other possibilities. If you are innocent, you muct surely recognise the possibility that Kath is too. And you must surely see the danger then inherent in your approach. We lynch one of you today and (when that person is proven innocent) automatically lynch the other tomorrow. And lose.

Your single-mindedness in this regard points more to your guilt than your innocence, in my view.

I am leaning towards Kath and more so Cailin at the moment, I still find it odd that she is no where to be seen yet today.

I agree with Spm, that (non-)Cailin is really dangerously quiet.The possibility that Calin is a Duck concerns me greatly. If she is, then she almost deserves to win. But, as I said earlier, it is often easier for the werecreature, with the knowledge he or she has, to appear innocent than it is for the true innocents to appear as such. I speak from experience (on both "sides of the fence") on this.

Now someone said, I might be the goose here. I admit I have tried to add complexity to our choices, but not with the idea of misguiding us, but for us to see the real possibilities.I think that you may be referring to my earlier comment. I said that your speculation that Mith may have been the Goose may have been calculated to cause confusion. By this, I meant not that you might be the Goose, but that you might well be our remaining Duck. I believe our Goose to be dead, courtesy of Ang. You describe the likelihood of you being the Duck as being small. But it is not. You were declared innocent as the result of a Night 1 dream. It remains quite possible that the Ducks tried to kill you on Night 2. In fact, you were a quite likely target for them.

Good that you took that up Kath. I was wondering, should I check, were there others with over-rounded opinions in Jenny's post. Somehow Morm didn't manage to point all the cases out, just those suiting his purposes - as happened on his first post on dAY2...I made the point myself earlier, although perhaps not quite so forcefully:

I am not sure that we should read too much into Jenny's post that you refer to, as she mentioned a number of people, innocents and Ducks alike, in a fairly neutral way.Morm seems to be a serial offender when it comes to selecting excerpts from quotes to suit his arguments ...

[Nogrod]

Nogrod is buying it...well done Kath.

No I'm not. I'm just looking at the things with the Devil's eyes. I will have a reasoned opinion of my own in some time (hopefully) soon.

[The Saucepan Man]

If Glirdan was a goose, he totally disregarded Spm's warnings about "bad goose tactics" and did exactly what Spm thought really bad...?An interesting point you make. Yet, I wasn't saying that the "Goose tactic" I outlined would necessarily be bad. It would depend on the circumstances. I said that, if anyone claimed to be the Owl, then they should be believed as, if they were a Goose, they would swiftly be found out. But it might be worth the Goose doing this, for example in an attempt to expose the real Owl. That is not the situation which occured. But I still believe that Glirdan (the Goose) thought spawn to be innocent and that her death, together with the confusion caused, was worth his own.

If I am wrong, it means that Mith must have been the Goose. In which case, we can no longer rely on Valier's innocence. The possibility that Valier may be the last Duck is almost too dreadful to contemplate.

However their behavior pattern was consistent in the way they treated the other ducks.No. Their behaviour pattern was consistent in the way they treated Ducks and innocents alike. I really don't see how this point counts against Kath, morm, and your persistence with it strengthens my concerns over you.

[Nogrod]

You describe the likelihood of you being the Duck as being small. But it is not. You were declared innocent as the result of a Night 1 dream. It remains quite possible that the Ducks tried to kill you on Night 2. In fact, you were a quite likely target for them.


This is interesting.

First: I was not "declared" innocent in day1, only on day2, so I would not be more higher in their agenda as anyone else after the firtst day talk (the ducks had to base their decision on day1 "results" only).

Secondly: I have never come to think - newbie as I still seem to be - the meaning of this idea, that the shapeshifting should be a result of night2 kill-decision. They could have been told beforehand, that you can pick someone? I don't know, whether there is a precedent here, and how it would be - or would Diamond go with it / know it in the first place... That would be a piece of important information now. As if it is their first actual gamenight's (night2) kill, we should really look for the one they would have liked to kill!

[Kath]

I am not misrepresenting your words morm. I may not understand them at times due to the continued repetition that you are innocent within each and every sentence, but I'm trying.

The people against whom they spoke, with the exclusion of me, are all known innocents.
Really? Let's see.

Nilp of course spoke against no one but himself - turned out to be a Duck.

Spawn spoke against Mithalwen on Day 1, when we didn't know her to be the Owl and she was under some suspicion from various members of the village. Later turned out to be an innocent. Day 2 suspicion of Glirdan, who we now believe was the Goose. More suspicion of Mith, but that was rife at the time. Some suspicion of morm, with fair reasoning as far as I can see.

Jenny spoke against Roa on Day 1, who was an innocent. Then morm, Valier, SPM, Mith, Sleepy and Roa again. So basically half the village, it being Day 1. Even an innocent (as she may well have been at the time) could have picked 6/7 names out of a hat and ended up with every single one being innocent. Day 2, she suspected and voted for spawn - who we now know was a Duck. By this time she was definitely a Duck whether she began as one or not I know, but she still went for someone who didn't turn out to be innocent.

I won't go on, but the point is there. Those who the Duck's spoke against have not all turned out to be innocents. And if you are willing to make generalised, sweeping statements like that I would say it was you that was clutching at straws.

[The Saucepan Man]

... so I would not be more higher in their agenda as anyone else after the firtst day talk (the ducks had to base their decision on day1 "results" only).You are too modest. ;)

You may not be the best at winning friends in the village (as your signature, courtesy of Sleepy, has it) but you have a certain reputation. At least one of our proven Ducks was familiar with it. And you did not attract much serious suspicion on Day 1. I can certainly see you being seriously considered by the Ducks on Night 2.

They could have been told beforehand, that you can pick someone?It's possible I suppose. But I had assumed from the Diamoddeses reference to this being a secret aspect of the game that the Ducks were as much in the dark as the rest of us at the outset.

As if it is their first actual gamenight's (night2) kill, we should really look for the one they would have liked to kill!That's one of the reasons I'm looking at you Nogrod. But it's also possible that the remaining Duck was one of the originals (which would discount you, if Mith is to be believed). Unfortunately, I don't think that we have any way of knowing.

[mormegil]

I won't go on, but the point is there. Those who the Duck's spoke against have not all turned out to be innocents. And if you are willing to make generalised, sweeping statements like that I would say it was you that was clutching at straws.

You gave nobody but known innocents they spoke against. When Jenny voted for Spawn it was after Glirdan's 'revelation' but never mentioned any suspicion before hand. The point I am trying to make is that the Ducks seemingly didn't mention their fellows very often if at all. Of those alive currently they mentioned most or all of us except Kath!!!! Yes that's 4 exclamation points!!!!

[Kath]

You gave nobody but known innocents they spoke against.
Ahem, no I didn't.

Day 2 suspicion of Glirdan, who we now believe was the Goose.
From spawn.

Love the exclamation points though :D Next you'll be telling us you're really the Owl and that both Mith and Glirdan were lying.

[mormegil]

Techincally speaking Glirdan is an innocent though not a Duck.

[The Saucepan Man]

Ahem!

Will you two stop squabbling for a moment and at least consider the possibility that you might both be innocent. This single-minded mutual persecution that you both seem intent on playing out may just hand the win to the Duck. :rolleyes:

[Kath]

I wouldn't call him a known innocent though, not while we don't know whether he was the Goose or not.

Anyway, if I don't go to bed now my parents will ban me from the net so:

++MORM

And SPM, yes that is a possibility. But it seems obvious that morm cannot let go of suspecting me and since he is certain to vote for me I would rather vote him than someone else who right now I don't suspect as much, even if only in the hope that it tips the scales enough his way to keep me alive. Until one or the other of us is dead this vendetta won't end, and I know who I'd prefer to see alive at the end of it!

The points against Cailin have been most fair I think, but I'm hoping that I'm right in saying that she (the real she) will be back tomorrow, and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt until then.

[Cailín]

I got home just now, sorry to dissapoint you all I'm still the Non-Cailin. Anyway, I hope you understand this is all new for me, I'm not really the type yet that posts all the time like I know my sister does. I'll read through all the new posts now and make my vote later.

[Nogrod]

I'm just running out of time (it's 2.20AM right now). Just a few points I had time to collect, and then I'' wait shortly for any comments (I try to check something more while waiting). But then I will have to vote.

Morm is nowhere a clear duck or goose - what else would you wait from him? But there are so many slight problems, that I'm beginning to suspect him for real.

#76 A totally vague talk about him possibly changing his style, about Nilp yes or maybe not, being round about the geese talk. (Not bad this one, as alone)

#95 Odd talk as me and Kath were talking about whom the ducks would kill. Morm came to defend the idea (originally held by Kath) of the ducks wishing to kill the quiet ones (I've never been a werecreature, but I have entertained the tactics while playing these games: I would go ahead on for the "famous" or much(-and well)-analysing people, especially on the first day, when the tracks are quite non-existent). Unhappily he X-posts with Kath, who has just seen my point. So trying to use the already available confusion to mess the best of the village? I would still like to hear his elaboration (that I asked from him just afterwards), how the quiet (or at worst - people easily affected = they are not always the same people, but on many times they are) are the best kills for the ducks!

Both Jenny's and Spawn's suspicions of him were not so bad anyway - quite normal - careful even talk, that could just fit the duck-on-duck "slight suspicion, backed up a bit" definition (see for yourselves: Jenny #100, Spawn #151). So here I see Kath having more point than Morm.

#121 Nilp-vote analysis, carefully "forgetting" the class of the most suspicious (those who had suspected "enough", but not voted - incl. himself).

#226 (mine), pointing out Morm's awkward and badly presented case over Sleepy's vote (hadn't time to check the original, but there is a quote).

AND THE INTERESTING ONE:
#255 After being voted (kind of out of the blue) by Spawn (a fellow?), he goes to state, that to him, the top of suspicion are Jenny (duck) and Roa. Then he calls for the dream from Mith for Ang and Roa, and at last says, that a dream on him would be wasted... So nicely suspecting a fellow-duck, but still asking not to dream of her - and then trying to play down a dream of him...?

Sorry, that's as far as I got. I try to see some more, and wait for your comments. This is surely looked with the "Devil's advocate's" eyes, but still...

[The Saucepan Man]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mormegil
Kath ... you find trivial matters and try and use them against others, me ususually, and do it at a time when you can add fuel to the mormegil fire.

Morm, would you mind providing some examples? This is not something that has been apparent to me.Morm. I am still waiting for a response on this ...

AND THE INTERESTING ONE:
#255 After being voted (kind of out of the blue) by Spawn (a fellow?), he goes to state, that to him, the top of suspicion are Jenny (duck) and Roa. Then he calls for the dream from Mith for Ang and Roa, and at last says, that a dream on him would be wasted... So nicely suspecting a fellow-duck, but still asking not to dream of her - and then trying to play down a dream of him...?A fair point. If you suspected Jenny, morm, why did you not suggest that Mith dream of her?

[Cailín]

I agree with Spm, that (non-)Cailin is really dangerously quiet. I can't say anything bad of her, except to the fact, that now the posting has somewhat ceased after the change of the roles. She told us something about her brother being the more intelligent and polite (or something), but she kind of didn't note us on these one-message policies. ANd what to say about this substitution-stuff anyway? A well-meaning villager who wants to not fail us others as she has RL things going on, or the duck who wants to take adventage of her RL fortunes?

I reckon it's only polite to look for a replacement when suddenly something comes up, instead of leaving a game where already two had left. I wouldn't base my suspicions on that.

Well, the points made by Nogrod about Mith not being the Owl, I still think she had a more convincing case then Glirdan. It just made it all a bit more confusing for me :rolleyes: .. which might have been your intention?

[Nogrod]

I reckon it's only polite to look for a replacement when suddenly something comes up, instead of leaving a game where already two had left. I wouldn't base my suspicions on that.
----------------------------------------
Well, the points made by Nogrod about Mith not being the Owl, I still think she had a more convincing case then Glirdan. It just made it all a bit more confusing for me :rolleyes: .. which might have been your intention?

To the first one: yes, I totally agree with that. I only raised the question, whether there are other possibilities... We all can be looked from several different angles, and just have to see, which is the most believable one...

And to the second: Yes, it was my intention to make someone confused, who thought this was all wrapped and ready. With that kind of an effort, we stand very small chance to any intelligent duck here, as we have only two chances to get it right...

And btw., as I went throught the first days, there is something funny in the actions of Cailin (so not the non-Cailin... ;) ) From the very beginning she quite firmly stands beside Morm. Then on the second day she kind of turns around, and suspects him quite a lot - but then again in #313 Morm is not at all suspicious! Our hawk was suspicious of her in #347. Just if anyone has time, please check this!

[mormegil]

Morm. I am still waiting for a response on this ...

A fair point. If you suspected Jenny, morm, why did you not suggest that Mith dream of her?

First it seems to me that she is doing it today. Trying to find anything with which to use against me. Second was when she brought up a quote and said something like "Typo? or guilty slip?" when all it truly was just the odd way in which I occasionally word things.

For your second question Sauce I cannot answer that because I do not remember how I felt at the time. I remember that Ang was at my throat and annoying me greatly, I doubted that he was guilty, being too bold, but I wanted to know for certain. Roa seemed guilty too. I cannot say why I didn't put Jenny in there.

Now I am put in an awkward position. I believe Kath is guilty, but I do not feel quite as strongly now as I did this morning as some good questions have been raised about Nogrod. I do not feel inclined to vote for Nogrod as I think it's more probable that Kath is the lone Duck.

I reckon it's only polite to look for a replacement when suddenly something comes up, instead of leaving a game where already two had left. I wouldn't base my suspicions on that.

I quite agree we already lost three innocents by them leaving suddenly.

[Nogrod]

Some more on Morm...

#297 There are many back-ups - kind of toning down reservations, but the basic message seems to be: If Spawn is guilty, then Mith is a goose. Then he goes to list who not to dream: those who are on many (suspicion?) lists, not Mith, not himself (again!)

On the third morning he still sees Mith as an obvious Goose (#305).

But after the failed dream by Glirdan, attacks him somewhat vaguely in #331 (a duck might want to do just that?)
You had a good plan but it unraveled by your idea to not dream. Still if he is the true owl I'd hate to do the duck's job for him/her.

And really. I don't know what to say of it. A goose-Glirdy could have just chosen anyone to say he dreamt of - because he was alive!!! It would have taken another one down? He could have been believed... and there is also the possibility, that he was a right Owl too (remember: Diamond never agreed or disagreed the two-Owls question, even asked - and she answered)

So a duck Morm would first go against Mith, because he knew myself and Spm. innocent - and so Mith an Owl, but after Glirdy "fumbled", turned against him as soon as he could - just to save his neck - and then to spread suspicion on me (not on Spm so much, as he was "double-secured", but still reminding us of the possibility).

I'm so sorry, this is now kind of "midway through"...

Well, my time's up. Just having one cigarette before the vote.

[mormegil]

Nogrod, what's the point of bringing up the fact that I leave myself of the lists? I don't find myself suspicious at all therefore I will not do an analysis of myself. At least one of the ducks included herself on her list stating something like "well I cannot possibly be guilty etc..." What difference does it make? Of couse I cannot do an objective analysis of myself. Your sudden vehement turn seems odd and makes me wonder even more about what SpM has said about you.

[mormegil]

and there is also the possibility, that he was a right Owl too (remember: Diamond never agreed or disagreed the two-Owls question, even asked - and she answered)

And I've been one of the ones who's been in agreement on that fact. Now Nogrod will you care to explain to me why you've been more vocal on Owl/goose theories today than on finding a duck? The majority of us agree that it's most probable that the goose and owl(s) are dead so why bother rehashing it?

Valier is most likely innocent as Mith was indeed the true owl. Glidan was most likely the goose. You and Sauce are most likely innocent though there is a good chance that you were converted. We cannot go over every possible scenario of who's the goose and who's the owl...did we have two or only one is the goose really dead...it's all diverting us from talking about ducks!

[Nogrod]

And I've been one of the ones who's been in agreement on that fact. Now Nogrod will you care to explain to me why you've been more vocal on Owl/goose theories today than on finding a duck? The majority of us agree that it's most probable that the goose and owl(s) are dead so why bother rehashing it?


I think I have spent more time with duck hunt (or more important time - I wrote those speculations during my noon - when no-one had basically said anything...), but surely the question is a good one. That's because I think we shouldn't leave the possibilities unseen. It would make a difference, if Mith was a goose - or if they both were owls. The majority is not always right. And especially in the game like this, you would be very unwise just to trust the majority - whose views could be directed by intelligent ducks...

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, what's the point of bringing up the fact that I leave myself of the lists?
---------------------------------------------
Your sudden vehement turn seems odd and makes me wonder even more about what SpM has said about you.

It's not a point as such. But added to a pile it is, a little, but still something (not much, I admit). But you should answer the overall picture. I know, there are many points that are arguable - and not so bad alone. You could pick one, two or three... But summed up, they look quite bad.

But I have not made a sudden turn. You know that very well. I have suspected you many days now - and voiced it too.

I admit, that looking at someone's post's with the "evil eye" -method (which I have done) may get too convincing in one's own eyes - and I admit this possibility. But your almost monomaniac insistence on killing Kath - and your fast turn to try and befriend Spm (after he thought of someone else to lynch - which is, btw. the idea I have also hailed: to see all the possibilities) were just the things that urged me to take this look on you more than to Kath.

I know I may be wrong, but still I will have to go to sleep, and vote as I believe right.

++ Morm

[Nogrod]

Triple posting...

Btw.

If you Morm can show, that all the suspicions raised by me, Spm and Kath + at least Ang earlier, are not good reasons to lynch you. We have still a couple of hours and four votes to save you with some good points.

[mormegil]

*throws arms in the air in exasperation*

and your fast turn to try and befriend Spm

GAK! It seems that nothing I do can be viewed in its true light.

I will either vote for Kath or Nogrod regardless of saving my own life as I think they look the most guilty.

[Cailín]

And to the second: Yes, it was my intention to make someone confused, who thought this was all wrapped and ready. With that kind of an effort, we stand very small chance to any intelligent duck here, as we have only two chances to get it right...

I can only agree with that, I can't really base my opinion about the Owl / Goose thing on any hard facts but Mithalwen has been helpful throughout the game till the point where she died, while Glirdan didn't dream about anyone, maybe he was just afraid of guessing wrong about someone.

Nogrod has been put in a different light for me, because of the things the Saucepan Man has said about you. That said, I got some weird feeling about SpM, mainly by something Nogrod said.
As if it is their first actual gamenight's (night2) kill, we should really look for the one they would have liked to kill!
Wouldn't Saucepan Man's fame make him a likely target? He's a very good analyser. It's not unlikely that he was attacked and turned. Mithalwen said she dreamed about him the night before she revealed herself, so it is a possibility, if at least the Ducks turned him after Mithalwen's dream, which was the same night.

So Kath and Mormegil, it seems one of both will be the one dying tonight. Some interesting points have been made about Mormegil today, which made me suspect him more then I did yesterday ( yeah I do realise my opinion about Morm has been changing a lot :rolleyes: .. ).

I'm gonna stick around for ~20 more minutes before making my vote, I'm still thinking on it.

[mormegil]

++Kath

Though when I die today please look at Kath and Nogrod most carefully tomorrow.

[Cailín]

It's 3:17 in the morning here so I'm not gonna stick around any longer ;)
I'll vote for Kath as she didn't really convince me yet on her voting pattern, which is why I voted on her yesterday. And it does seem like Mormegil has been looked at from a rather bad view today, making him look worse then he is, but I might be wrong.. well goodnight, may the last voters make the right decision.

++ Kath

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, despite all the din and clamour of Kath and morm squabbling, I have been giving serious thought to the possibility that both may be innocent.

I am still working on the basis that Mith was the true Owl, since that seems the most credible scenario to me. And on that basis, I believe Valier to be innocent.

If Cailín is a Duck, then the substiution of non-Cailín and his ensuing quietness has served them well. But there really isn’t enough to go on. I have seen little otherwise to suggest that he/she is a Duck and so cannot, in all conscience, vote for him/her.

Nogrod concerns me because I think it quite possible that he was targeted by the Ducks on Night 2. Certainly, his approach seems to have changed after Day 1. He has been much less abrasive and sounded much more reasonable. Which, given his reputation, worries me. His raising the possibility of Valier being a Duck also worries me, as it is precisely what a Duck would do. Yet it’s not quite enough to merit a vote. Not today, at least.

And so I am back to morm and Kath.

I find most of morm’s points against Kath to be weak. The only real point that I can see against her is her voting record. But, on closer inspection, it looks decidedly non-Duckish. I really don’t believe that a Duckish Kath would have allowed herself to vote for someone other than the Duck that was lynched three days running. And, if a Duck, her best Day 2 vote would surely have been for spawn, who was almost certain to be lynched at the time she voted (post-Glirdan’s revelation).

The case against morm is far stronger. His flip-flopping over the Mith/Glirdan revelations (which seems a Duckish approach). His efforts to dissuade Mith from dreaming of him. His votes for spawn and Jenny (at times when they were almost certain to be lynched), calculated, I think, to gain credibility. His defensiveness throughout. His single-minded pursuit of Kath today and seeming refusal to seriously consider any alternatives. Together with the good points that Nogrod has brought up, this all, to my mind, strongly points to morm being our final Duck.

+ + MORMEGIL

[mormegil]

Well since I have three votes and my fate is decided I might as well let you all know that I am indeed....innocent. I'm sorry I'm not your last duck to provide victory but I will go to the gallows with my conscience clear and may Mandos accept me and keep me well.

[Valier]

Well since there is no hope of a double lynch, I might as well vote now..

++Kath

Since this may be my last night if we don't catch a Duck...Farewell all! :) (hopefully I'm wrong)

[Diamond18]

I'm going to end the Day early since everyone has voted.

Mormegil: III (Kath, Nogrod, SpM)

Kath: III (Morm, Cailín, Valier)

Death will be up shortly.

[Diamond18]

The villagers were split on who to kill, but those for Morm got the upper hand, and finally the elven idleman threw his hands in the air and with an exclamation, “GAK! It seems that nothing I do can be viewed in its true light.”

He submitted to his death sentence with a few last words, and then it was time for the villagers to decide the method of his fate.

“He didn’t really have a true occupation, just idled about,” opinionated Kath.

“Good point,” agreed Nogrod.

“Let’s work him to death!” decided Saucepan Orc.

And so they put the idleman in chains and set him to various odious and difficult tasks, all the while lashing him with whips. He submitted to his trials with grim and silent determination. First he mowed Kath’s lawn, which took a very long time since Kath’s lawn was the size of a football field. Then he underwent a rigorous workout under Nogrod’s supervision -- the Dwarven Personal Fitness Instructor smoked a ciggie and lashed Morm languidly as the elf did push-ups military style. Then they took him out to Saucepan Orc’s field and tied him to a pole under the hot midday sun. After all the crows in the vicinity got as far away as they could from the bizarre proceedings, the villagers took Morm down and forced him make bricks without straw. Since they did not allow him water or rest this entire time, he eventually expired from dehydration and exhaustion.

He bore it all with a solemn nobility true to his elven lineage and said a prayer to Mandos before he expired.

~~~~~~~~~

~ The Dead ~

Diamond Took, the Halfling Poet ~ Villager ~ Pecked to death on Night 1
Nilpaurion Felagund the Elven Pigeon-Summoning Ninja ~ Wereduck ~ Waxed on, waxed off on Day 1
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Spider Loving Orcish Astronaut ~ Wereduck ~ Stuffed full of spiders and choked to death on Day 2
Elu Ancalime the Didgeridoo Dwarf ~ Villager ~ Struck by Mod Fire from above on Day 2
Lalaith the Halfling Chubb Fuddler ~ Villager ~ Boiled, mashed, and cooked in a stew on Night 3
Roa Aoife the Batwoman ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but rejoined her regiment on Day 3
Sleepy Ranger the Exiled Jedi Master ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but departed with a droid on Day 3
JennyHallu the Halfling Mountaintop Guru ~ Wereduck ~ Pitchforked to death on Day 3
Anguirel the Baritone Bird Catcher ~ Hawk ~ Gunned down with an M16 on Night 4
Glirdan the Entish Tree Herder ~ Villager ~ Consumed by flames from the Hawk’s cigarette lighter on Night 4
Lote22 the Elven Igloo Maker ~ Villager ~ Encased in a block of ice on Day 4
Mithalwen the Elven Saggar Maker's Bottom Knocker ~ Villager ~ Melted down and made into pottery glaze on Night 5
Mormegil the Elven Idleman ~ Villager ~ Worked to death on Day 5

~ The Living ~

Saucepan Man the Orcish Scarecrow
Valier the Dwarven Millet Spray Picker
Nogrod the Dwarven Personal Fitness Instructor
Kath the Rainbow Catcher
Cailín the Bird-portraitist

[Diamond18]

The villagers awoke with a shudder and a shake as they felt their impending doom creep ever closer. With weary, wary steps they dragged themselves to the town square (now known as the Trapezoid of Ever More Desperate Struggles) and looked from face to face to see who had not survived the Night.

Valier the dwarven millet spray picker alone was not present. So, inevitably, they turned their steps toward her home. They found her in the front yard, or rather, they found a glass box with her inside. Hundreds, nay, thousands of abnormally large mosquitoes swarmed around her inert form, and the villagers recoiled in horror. (You’d think they’d be used to grisly death by now, but no.) For Valier’s body, on closer inspection, was shriveled and pale, all drained of blood by the thirsty little buggers.

“Giant vampire mosquitoes from the black swamp,” gasped a villager who will remain unnamed because I could tell you but then I’d have to kill you. “Ten thousand times more deadly than regular mosquitoes, they can suck a person dry in ten minutes!”

Several gasps met this bit of information, and the villagers each made a mental note not to open the box.

~~~~~~~~~

~ The Dead ~

Diamond Took, the Halfling Poet ~ Villager ~ Pecked to death on Night 1
Nilpaurion Felagund the Elven Pigeon-Summoning Ninja ~ Wereduck ~ Waxed on, waxed off on Day 1
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Spider Loving Orcish Astronaut ~ Wereduck ~ Stuffed full of spiders and choked to death on Day 2
Elu Ancalime the Didgeridoo Dwarf ~ Villager ~ Struck by Mod Fire from above on Day 2
Lalaith the Halfling Chubb Fuddler ~ Villager ~ Boiled, mashed, and cooked in a stew on Night 3
Roa Aoife the Batwoman ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but rejoined her regiment on Day 3
Sleepy Ranger the Exiled Jedi Master ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but departed with a droid on Day 3
JennyHallu the Halfling Mountaintop Guru ~ Wereduck ~ Pitchforked to death on Day 3
Anguirel the Baritone Bird Catcher ~ Hawk ~ Gunned down with an M16 on Night 4
Glirdan the Entish Tree Herder ~ Villager ~ Consumed by flames from the Hawk’s cigarette lighter on Night 4
Lote22 the Elven Igloo Maker ~ Villager ~ Encased in a block of ice on Day 4
Mithalwen the Elven Saggar Maker's Bottom Knocker ~ Villager ~ Melted down and made into pottery glaze on Night 5
Mormegil the Elven Idleman ~ Villager ~ Worked to death on Day 5
Valier the Dwarven Millet Spray Picker ~ Villager ~ Sucked dry by giant vampire mosquitoes from the black swamp on Night 6

~ The Living ~

Saucepan Man the Orcish Scarecrow
Nogrod the Dwarven Personal Fitness Instructor
Kath the Rainbow Catcher
Cailín the Bird-portraitist

[Nogrod]

That wasn't surprising at all, sad to say that.

Well. Today seems to be our last chance (there surely is the possible miracle of a living nightingale making the save next night).

There are two dreamt of's in the village - and two not dreamt of's. But even though the odds for me or Spm to have been turned into a duck are small, we should not totally ignore those possibilities. Today we just will have to look at everything.

Then I hope, that everyone will have a possibility to vote as late as possible. I myself will probably have to vote first (+3GMT), though. As there are only four of us, the first gaining only two votes will be our lynch - no matter what kind of things people might come up with after that.


And just a short answer to Spm - kind of opening today's discussions from one side - as he has been weary of me changing my playing style after the first day. That is just perfectly normal. Those who have played with me surely know it. As I hate random accusations and just in role chit-chat on dAY1, I like to try and stir some serious discussion about priciples, tactics etc. It almost always heats the discussion and opens some real positions. From dAY2 onwards that is no longer necessary, as there most of the times is already something more substantial to go after.

[Nogrod]

Another opening. A thing I'm getting a bit worried about.

If it is, like Spm said, that the conversion on night2 happened to the one the ducks intended to kill, then I'm getting very weary about Spm himself.

Why?
- He seemed to be quite at home with the picking method, how could he be so assured? (Ok., I'm that much of a newbie still, that I may just be ignorant of a basic procedure.)
- Were I a duck, I would have a strong inclination to pick a player like Spm as my first kill. (I know, that Spm has stated the same about me)
- I did arouse some suspicion on dAY1 (also a vote), but don't remember Spm getting any. This of course should be checked (and I will, later as I have time).

Well. Making both me and Spm look suspicious. But then again, it doesn't prove, that they didn't pick Cailin or Kath...

Or then the duck left is one of the originals, leaving me and Spm innocent, and Cailin & Kath to choose from. After night2, we have killed both Spawn and Jenny. Either of them could have been the converted duck.

Tricky.

[The Saucepan Man]

Today we just will have to look at everything.With this, I heartily agree. If we don’t get it right today, the chances of a village victory are slim. That means that all of us still here need to speak up and share our opinions, theories and ideas. Is Cailín back with us? If not, then past day’s events would suggest that non-Cailín will not be with us until much nearer the deadline.

And just a short answer to Spm - kind of opening today's discussions from one side - as he has been weary of me changing my playing style after the first day. That is just perfectly normal. Those who have played with me surely know it.It’s not so much the change in substance as the change in style that concerns me. You seemed to become a lot less aggressive and argumentative after Day 1. And your voting record, I’m afraid, is not great. You have voted only once for a known Duck. And that was at a time when said Duck (spawn) was likely to be lynched. Other than that, you have voted twice for known innocents and once for an unknown (Kath). It doesn’t make you the last Duck. But it certainly puts you well in the reckoning.

If it is, like Spm said, that the conversion on night2 happened to the one the ducks intended to kill, then I'm getting very weary about Spm himself.As you said, we have to consider all options. But I can assure you that I am not a Duck.

I have a feeling that the Nightingale may still be among us. If so, they were right not to declare themselves yesterday. But I wonder if they should do so today. The upside, of course, is that we would narrow our list of potential Ducks. The downside, however, is that, if we choose wrongly today, there is still a chance that they may save the remaining innocent overnight, leading to an almost certain village victory tomorrow. What do people think?

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmmm. I have just remembered how keen Nogrod seemed yesterday to keep alive the possibility (contrary to the evidence, in my view) that Mith was the Goose and that Valier might therefore still be the last Duck. Valier’s death shows us that she was innocent. Surely only the Duck would have wanted to keep her in the reckoning. The rest of us, I think, had pretty much discounted her as innocent. Are you the Duck, Nogrod? It’s looking pretty much that way to me.

[Kath]

To answer your point about the Nightingale, SPM, I'm not sure that revealing themselves would be a great deal of help to us. We need a situation toNight where the Nightingale and the Duck go for the same person. If the Nightingale reveals themselves the Duck will probably go for them. That still leaves us one innocent down, and it's more of a blow to the village.

As to your ideas about Nogrod, they do make sense. I have been uncomfortable with the way he has been trying to discredit Mith, especially after her death when she cannot argue her corner. All it did was sow confusion.

Nogrod's arguments about SPM possibly being the Duck seem well-founded. It is true to say that SPM had no (or very little) suspicion directed his way on Day 1, but actually Nogrod, that's quite normal. People don't tend to start suspecting SPM for a couple of Days, and therefore your idea that the Ducks would want to kill him first Night seems off to me. The difference in opinion here may just be that I've played more games with him though.

As for Cailin, I want to hear from her/him toDay before I make any decisions on that front.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, it’s very quiet today. Which is to be expected, I suppose, with so few villagers left. Yet I am surprised that Nogrod is not more vocal. It’s unlike him to be so quiet.

If Cailín is the Duck, then she has played a blinder and flown almost completely beneath our radars. If so, she almost deserves to win. But I am inclined to think her innocent.

I am also inclined to view Kath as innocent, for the reasons which I stated yesterday. Her voting record looks wholly un-Duckish to me. I would have expected a Duck to vote for spawn following Glirdan’s revelation.

Which leaves me with Nogrod. And everything points to him as being the transformed Duck. The change in style after Day 1. The reaction to the Mith/Glirdan revelations and his vote for spawn on Day 2. A Duck would presumably have thought Glirdan the true Owl, as he had named spawn as a Duck, and would be concerned not to be seen trying to save spawn. It therefore looks a very Duckish vote, particularly as, unbeknownst to us, there would still be two Ducks left following spawn’s death. The attempt to confuse yesterday by clinging to the possibility of a Goosey Mith and, to an extent, today by seeking to implicate me. And also his relativeness quietness today, which is unusual for him. I suspect that he is lurking, waiting to see which way village opinion is turning.

I am tempted to vote for him right now. Yet I will hold off, as we are likely to get only one chance at this and I would like to hear the thoughts of the others first.

[Cailín]

In reply to your question about the Nightingale, if any of us would say 'I am the nightingale', would you believe them and not vote for them? Say the duck would pretend to be the nightingale and we wouldn't vote for him / her tonight, it would result in a village loss, or even more confusion if one person pretends to be the nightingale and the real nightingale says 'No, I am the nightingale.' . I don't think it's the best idea if the nightingale declares himself now, but rather remain quiet.

I think there's only 2 options that can be the last remaining duck, Kath and the Saucepan Man . I think Nogrod was under way too much suspicion to be the Duck's target in the first night. However, like Nogrod said, I wouldn't want SpM to be in a game against me.

I've been reading through the post of Jenny and Spawn the first days trying to see if one of them might have been the changed Duck. Jenny makes an attempt so save Nilp in the first Day, Spawn doesn't say much at all day 1, so it's kinda hard to point out anything that would make her seem changed after the first night. She starts bashing on our Owl in day 2 though, and I can understand why Ducks wouldn't want to be against her, so she would make a logical kill. That would make Kath the last remaining duck.

Crossposted with SpM, and yes I'm still Non-Cailin. However I'm trying to take breaks every now and then from studying for my final exams to post a bit more often.

[The Saucepan Man]

Cailín, I should remind you that the only possibility of me being a Duck is if the Ducks’ notification of who they were intending to kill on Night 2 came in after Mith’s notification of who she wished to dream of. Pretty short odds, I’d say.

I think there's only 2 options that can be the last remaining duck, Kath and the Saucepan Man.Interesting that you exclude yourself from the list. And I really don’t see how you can discount Nogrod. My impression was that there was very little suspicion of him at the end of Day 1 but, in light of your comment, I went back to check. The only serious suspicion of him came from mormegil, who voted for him. But that was a Day 1 vote, based on very little information, and so likely to change. In those circumstances, I think it quite possible that the Ducks will have targeted Nogrod on Night 2. He has shown himself to be a formidable player in the past. And, if I am right about him being a Duck, he has lived up to that reputation in this game.

That would make Kath the last remaining duck.… or you. :rolleyes:

And where is Nogrod? He's usually a pretty much permanent fixture in the village throughout the Day ...

[The Saucepan Man]

Pretty short odds, I’d say.Oops! I meant long odds.

I am, after all, an Orc of little brain. :rolleyes: :D

[Kath]

Cailin I don't see your logic. The way I see it, Mith was the Owl and dreamt of SPM on Night 2 and found him innocent. If the Ducks chose to kill SPM after Mith received her dream then yes, he could be a Duck, but that is a pretty slim chance I feel, and far less likely than the scenario where Nogrod is the Duck.

As SPM says, Nogrod was not under a great deal of suspicion that first Day. But I should say he was a good choice for a first kill. He has proved himself to be a formidable player in the past.

Have you any other reasons for believing Nogrod innocent? Because at the moment the arguments for his guilt are far more compelling.

[Nogrod]

Here I am. And sorry to say, very shortly for now (at the school still, overlooking a student-band-cavalcade).

Just a point about the possibilities:

If the primary ducks were Nilp - Jenny - Spawn, we should look at all of us with the eye: could someone of us be the first kill for the ducks (so how we behaved, how we were suspected etc.).

If the primary ducks were Nilp - Jenny + Cailin/ Kath, we should consider, whether Spawn would be a good kill for the ducks first.

If the primary ducks were Nilp - Spawn + Cailin/ Kath, we should consider, whether Jenny would be a good kill for the ducks first.

Of these I see the Spawn-kill as the most obvious one. But others could be possible. The thing is: whatever we go to vote for, it should make sense on this first-kill level too.

I'll be back with more, as I get home (I'll be free from here about 7PM GMT).

And please Spm, don't say that it is suspicious from me to say that you might be a duck - as you have slowly started to build your case on me from yesterday onwards... :p

PS. About the goosy-Mith: I have always said, that we should look at all the possibilities. There is still something in that stuff that bothers me, but maybe I'm just overkeen to see problems where there are none...

EDIT: X-posted with Kath & Spm

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I’m pretty much convinced that Nogrod is our last Duck.

So …

+ + NOGROD

I hope that I have chosen wisely.

[Kath]

Nogrod, you seem to have conveniently left off the possibility that you were an original or changed Duck! You say you want to look at every possibility, well to make sense of the kills I'd say that needs to be up there.

++NOGROD

Looks most Duckish to me.

EDIT: Cross-posted with SPM's vote.

[The Saucepan Man]

So, Nogrod, are you the Duck ...?

[The Saucepan Man]

... because you don't look at all Duckish to me, and I would hate to think that I have made a mistake.

*Honk! Honk!*

er …

I mean *Quack! Quack!*

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, you seem to have conveniently left off the possibility that you were an original or changed Duck! You say you want to look at every possibility, well to make sense of the kills I'd say that needs to be up there.

++NOGROD

Looks most Duckish to me.

EDIT: Cross-posted with SPM's vote.

I couldn't be the original - if Mith was the seer. Sorry.

And I said all of us should be looked, if the changed one is among us.


Sad to say, but the duck won...

I kind of remember saying in the morning, that you shouldn't be hasty with your votes, as two votes are enough: and as you see, the first vote given will be immediately followed by a similar vote... sealing the duck victory.

But anyhow. This was fun, as long as it lasted.

[Diamond18]

Er, I don't have Noggie's death written, so you'll have to wait half an hour or so. But he's doomed so you can consider this the Not-Deadline.

Edit: those still alive can continue to talk, however.

[Kath]

So upon Nogrod's death the Duck will have won?

[Nogrod]

Without the nightingale, yes.

And as Diamond was coming in already, we seem to not have that little bird anymore...

S/he could have saved the game, though... saving the other one (50-50 chance). And then the duck to the gallows tomorrow. :cool:

But as I said. This was a lots of fun - although I consider this last one as part foolishness - and part cunningness of the duck.

EDIT: Surely it is Diamond's decision, when the game ends.

[Diamond18]

The villagers turned on Nogrod swiftly, and before he knew what hit him, he was knocked on the head and tied up. When he came to he found Saucepan Orc and Kath busy digging a hole.

“What are you doing?” he asked. “I’m not the Duck!”

“Maybe you became the Duck,” said Saucepan Orc. “We’re going to put you in this hole and then beat you with dumbbells until your ancestral memory of being a Duck returns.”

“Then we’re going to kill you,” said Kath cheerfully.

With that, they hoisted him up and plopped him in the hole. Then the beat him savagely with dumbbells and various sundry fitness equipment, verbally abusing him all the while, until his ancestral memory returned and he exclaimed weakly, “Friend! The password is ‘friend’!”

“That’s nice,” said his attackers, and Kath leveled a stunning death blow to his noggin.

“I have a bad feeling about this,” said Not-Cailín as he watched the body of Nogrod not-transform.

Kath smiled devilishly. “Funny, I feel quite good,” and she morphed into a large, fearsome duck with a gleaming bill and nasty, beady little eyes.

“You can’t take two of us!” exclaimed Not-Cailín, and turned to Saucepan Orc for support. To his horror, he saw not Saucepan Orc, but a large, smug looking Goose.

“Honk,” said Saucepan Goose.

Kath waddled up to Not-Cailín and quacked, “Now listen, you’re going to paint us a portrait, got that? And if you make it a nice one, maybe, just maybe, I’ll let you live. You would like that, wouldn’t you, little human?”

“Y-yes,” gulped Not-Cailín, and quickly assembled his painting supplies. He then worked as if his life depended on it... which it sort of did... and painted the most stunning and beautiful portrait that has ever been painted of a Goose and a Wereduck.

Quath and Saucepan Goose looked at it, and were well pleased. Not-Cailín breathed a sigh of relief. This was, tragically, his last breath of life, for Quath immediately dunked his head into a bucket of magenta paint and held him under until he expired.

She turned to Saucepan Goose. “My lady,” he honked, “I am at your service. Let me always be by your side! I am nothing more than a humble goose, not a noble Wereduck such as yourself. But if you say ‘no’ or kill me, my goosey heart shall break, for I would do anything for your duckishly delightful self!”

“Well aren’t you just the cutest goose that ever lived,” she quacked, tweaking his bill. And then they waddled off into the sunset together, heading in the direction of Wereduck pond. And this is what the Wereduck poets have written about their story:

Saucepan said to the Duck, “You elegant fowl!
How charmingly sweet you sing!
O let us be married! too long have we tarried;
But what shall we do for a ring?”

(Non rhyming narrator interlude: well they now own the whole village, so finding a ring shouldn’t be hard, and anyway where do a Duck and Goose wear rings anyway? Don’t trouble yourself with such details, it ruins the poem.)

They dined on villagers, and slices of quince
Which they ate with a rucible spoon;
And wing in wing, on the edge of the pond
They danced by the light of the moon
The moon
The moon,
They danced by the light of the moon!

~~~~~~~~~

~ The Dead ~

Diamond Took, the Halfling Poet ~ Villager ~ Pecked to death on Night 1
Nilpaurion Felagund the Elven Pigeon-Summoning Ninja ~ Wereduck ~ Waxed on, waxed off on Day 1
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Spider Loving Orcish Astronaut ~ Wereduck ~ Stuffed full of spiders and choked to death on Day 2
Elu Ancalime the Didgeridoo Dwarf ~ Villager ~ Struck by Mod Fire from above on Day 2
Lalaith the Halfling Chubb Fuddler ~ Nightingale ~ Boiled, mashed, and cooked in a stew on Night 3
Roa Aoife the Batwoman ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but rejoined her regiment on Day 3
Sleepy Ranger the Exiled Jedi Master ~ Villager ~ Not dead, but departed with a droid on Day 3
JennyHallu the Halfling Mountaintop Guru ~ Wereduck ~ Pitchforked to death on Day 3
Anguirel the Baritone Bird Catcher ~ Hawk ~ Gunned down with an M16 on Night 4
Glirdan the Entish Tree Herder ~ Owl ~ Consumed by flames from the Hawk’s cigarette lighter on Night 4
Lote22 the Elven Igloo Maker ~ Villager ~ Encased in a block of ice on Day 4
Mithalwen the Elven Saggar Maker's Bottom Knocker ~ Owl ~ Melted down and made into pottery glaze on Night 5
Mormegil the Elven Idleman ~ Villager ~ Worked to death on Day 5
Valier the Dwarven Millet Spray Picker ~ Villager ~ Sucked dry by giant vampire mosquitoes from the black swamp on Night 6
Nogrod the Dwarven Personal Fitness Instructor ~ Villager ~ Beaten to death with dumbbells and various sundry fitness equipment on Day 6
Cailín the Bird-portraitist ~ Villager ~ Drowned in a bucket of magenta paint on Day 6

~ The Living ~

Saucepan Man the Orcish Scarecrow ~ Goose
Kath the Rainbow Catcher ~ Wereduck

Result: Duck/Goose victory

[Kath]

Sauce you are an absolute gem! For the longest time I couldn't work out why on earth you were supporting me. Cheers for that, I couldn't have made it without you!

[Diamond18]

Congratulations to Kath and Saucey for a game well played. It was rather stunning how Kath (with help from her loyal Goose) managed to come back from the brink of defeat day after day and finally win. I will be giving out awards and comments to everyone in a bit, but you'll have to wait for that....

In the meantime, here are some trivial facts:

Both Glirdan and Mithalwen were Owls.

Jenny was the cursed villager changed into a Duck.

The "secret" was that both sides had a secret agent, one extra Owl for the villagers and one extra Duck for the Wereducks.

Lalaith was the Nightingale.

And here is the behind-the-scenes activity for the game:


Anguirel's picks
d1 - Cailín
n2 - mormegil
d2 - Spawn
n3 - Valier
d3 - Jenny
n4 - Glirdan

Lalaith's picks
n2 - Anguirel
n3 - Glirdan

Glirdan's picks
n1 - Spawn
n2 - SpM
n4 - Mithalwen

Mithalwen's picks
n1 - Nogrod
n2 - SpM
n3 - Anguirel
n4 - Valier

Wereducks' picks:
n2 - JennyHallu
n3 - Lalaith
n4 - Anguirel
n5 - Mithalwen
n6 - Valier

[Valier]

AAAHHHH I knew it! Just knew it! Kath you devil! and SPM I had no idea you were the Goose! Well played!

[Kath]

Wow, so Nogrod was right. And Glirdan really didn't dream Night 3. Who knew so many people were actually telling the truth!

Diamond, thanks for such a great game :D Impressive record-keeping skills there too.

[JennyHallu]

Well...at least I was right about Glirdan being a true Owl.

And two true owls has got to be the secret.

Oh, and I was the transformed Duck. Quack!

I was so frustrated!! I was thought suspicious only for things I said when I was innocent and for being right about Glirdan not being a Goose! Saucie, I have got to believe you thought me innocent, since you got me killed. But...I forgive you, because this is the first time being on the evil side has been a winning situation for me.

I really would love to be innocent for once...all the way through...my reputation is horrible.

[Kath]

Well at least Nogrod can take some sastisfaction from the fact that he was right about there being two Owls.

[Roa_Aoife]

*watches game*

*yells at screen* Yay, Glirdan!

*laughs maniacally at Ang* They were both Owls.

*yells* "Noooooo, Suacie is the Goose! Don't trust him! Look at his blatant mis-direction! Argh!

*yells some more* No! Vote Kath quickly!

*sigh* That's it. The game is over.

And in the end, while I had very good reasons for dropping out, I still wish I had been able to play. Good game all.

[JennyHallu]

Question for Di:

Was I a cursed villager from the get-go, or was whoever the Ducks went for Night 2 going to be turned into a Duck?

[Formendacil]

Diamond, players:

I have to hand it to you, that was one of the best games I've ever seen played. The dual seers/extra ducks/cursed/cobbler- it all worked out. Anguirel, excellent job as the Hawk! Such a pity people had to drop out... this was one of the best games ever that I've seen.

And, I'll confess... I'm sympathetic to Wolfish (Ducky) wins whenever I'm not playing... so kudos indeed to Quath and the Saucepan Goose. Excellent job, by the way, Saucy- a much better showing than as a Cobbler in Anguirel's game.

[Cailín]

Well, dears. Cailín is back. And what a mess you made without me.

I have been (sort of) keeping up with the game since Wednesday and called my brother today and told him to vote for Saucepan Man - fast. I was so sure he was the final Duck… firstly because he was still alive and Lalaith was killed instead of him, while both Owls declared him innocent. And secondly, because he was being foolish. I mean, Nogrod? He should have gone after *non*-me or Kath. That's why I finally decided that you, SpM, were the big evil quacker, instead of Kath. Of course, I thought the Goose was long dead.

Well done, bro. I told you guys he is smarter than me. He had Kath pinned down almost immediately.

You hunted me, Ang? How could you? I hate being hunted.

Diamond18 - wonderful job modding despite all the dropouts. You were great. I hope that, in hindsight, you understand my decision to make the Cailín / Non-Cailín thing public. No one who has played with me before would believe those were my posts. By the way, my bro was far more engaged in the game than his posts show, but he has his final exams coming up and was a bit too shy to post many extensive theories. Hopefully, he will get his own account in the near future.

I apologise for abandoning you all, but it could really not be helped. I returned on Wednesday but was so out of reality and Downs-reality that I decided it would be best to let my brother finish the game.

Saucy - wow. I cannot believe you can still pull it off. Should we ever trust you again?

[Diamond18]

Question for Di:

Was I a cursed villager from the get-go, or was whoever the Ducks went for Night 2 going to be turned into a Duck?

Their first successful kill would be the Cursed Villager. The Owls got to start out as Owls and the Duck add was to balance the scales. But the Ducks didn't know about it, it was a surprise for them (though I'm sure they told you that.)

[mormegil]

Saucie I fully knew you were the goose, otherwise you were being too obtuse to not see my points

'oh no her votes seem too duckish to be a duck'

How did anybody buy that tripe?

I'm so upset I could scream!!!

ACK!!!!

We could have ended this days ago if only I had been heeded.

*sigh* this has been far too stressful for me.

Diamond wonderful modding and this was possibly my favorite death. Thanks for going solemn and noble.

[Diamond18]

Diamond18 - wonderful job modding despite all the dropouts. You were great. I hope that, in hindsight, you understand my decision to make the Cailín / Non-Cailín thing public.

Yes, that was the right thing to do -- and I can't deny that I got a real kick out of writing "Not-Cailín" for all the narratives afterwards. :D

And N-C, you did a really good job, I hope to see you in future games with your own name! Though I suppose you could always sing up as Not-Cailín.... :p

[Mithalwen]

Well at least Nogrod can take some sastisfaction from the fact that he was right about there being two Owls.

*cough*?

[Kath]

Yes Mith, Nogrod can. He kept the idea up right to the end, and needs something to make up for his rather violent death.

[Mithalwen]

Yes Mith, Nogrod can. He kept the idea up right to the end, and needs something to make up for his rather violent death.

No he deserves it! :p Having got a dream on the night I died I was fairly sure that you were the duck but really Nogrod had such a personality change I began to doubt. Then when I was told for certain you were the duck post mortem, my question to Diamond was "Is Nogrod the goose or is he just over-intellectualising?"

[Anguirel]

Argh. I must have been the most catastrophic Hunter in history...

At least my deception regarding Lalaith and the Nightingale's death preserved that extra dream...

[Diamond18]

Argh. I must have been the most catastrophic Hunter in history...

Well, as the hunter I killed morm when he was the seer in Valier's game. The village was still able to win, but boy did I have egg on my face.

[JennyHallu]

DIAMOND!!! I LOVED MY DEATH!!

Thank you so much for using my little rhyme (I sent it with the Lalaith-Kill the night before)...I will say now that it is Dr. Seuss's, not mine, but I was just thrilled to find it in my death.

[Lalaith]

Oh, you horrible, horrible ducks. I've never been killed so early in a game before, and I was FURIOUS.
And Diamond, you are a fiend in human form. Two Owls AND an extra duck? Oh, poor Glirdan. *laughs, cries*

I too, like Cailin, had Saucie down for a duck - ever since he went after morm. Morm was so clearly innocent, he would never have risked killing Ang that night. And an innocent Saucie would have pointed that out.

Kudos to Mith, for being right about lots of things, and to Ang for trying to maintain the life of the Nightingale beyond death....

[Mithalwen]

I'm so upset I could scream!!!

ACK!!!!

We could have ended this days ago if only I had been heeded.

*sigh* this has been far too stressful for me.



I have got beyond the screaming stage...more resigned ....... but I'll take your "not heeded" and raise you.... :p

[The Saucepan Man]

Hehe. Glad to see that I was not mistaken. I have been on tenterhooks all the way home from work. :D

I have a lot to say about this game. It was completely exhilarating and utterly confusing. If you thought the double-Owl thing was confusing from your perspective, imagine how astonished I was when Mith turned out not to be a Duck. Still, it served my purposes as it was pretty much accepted thereafter that the Goose was dead (sorry, Glirdy).

Sorry also to Nilp, spawn and Jenny for not helping you out. I had no idea you were Ducks (although I had a feeling about spawn). I was rather pleased with my role in "outing" Mith (happily accepting the idignity of being labelled stupid), but was horrified when Glirdan then came out and named spawn. When spawn was lynched and turned out to be a Duck, I thought that it was all over (not knowing there was an additional Duck) and that my "outing" of Mith had lost us the game.

Thereafter, assuming Mith was the final Duck, I set about defending her. When she died and was shown to be innocent, I didn't know what to believe. But I thought "What the heck?". My guess was that one of them had been a False Owl.

Not a great Goose showing up to that point. :rolleyes:

Happily, I soon worked out that Kath was most likely the final Duck and set about protecting her instead. I couldn't be sure but, I mean, just look at her voting record. :p

Did you guess I was a Goose, Kath, or did you just keep me alive because I appeared so convinced of your innocence?

I spent the final two days briefing against morm and Noggy (sorry guys), because I was pretty sure that they were innocent and it was too difficult to make a case against non-Cailín.

Today was pretty difficult, as I couldn't be sure that the Nightingale was not still with us (good job, there, Ang). Otherwise, I would simply have voted for myself. When I saw that Kath had turned up, I took my chance and placed my vote for Noggy.

Running out of time ...

Great game everyone, and fantastic modding, Di. The paranoia created by not knowing who was who when they died was brilliant.

More later ...

[Diamond18]

The awards are still coming, but I would just like to say -- there's not really one person to give a special award to for figuring out the secret. I haven't quite kept track, but several people got it or near to it:

Lalaith asked me in PM if there were two Owls the Night after Mith and Glirdy's revelations.

Mithalwen voiced her suspicion and then belief that that was the case.

Nogrod included it in one of his many, many possibilities. :D

SpM thought at one point, I think, that there were two Owls, one false and one true. (I think it was you, Sauce, I have been forced to delete my PMs of course and didn't save all of them.) This was pretty close, since having a false seer was among my initial ideas for the game. In the end I went with two true seers, though.

[Anguirel]

Well, I've learnt a cookery lesson...

Too many Owls spoil the broth!

And my even record now spills into the losses again, sniff...

[Mithalwen]

If you thought the double-Owl thing was confusing from your perspective, imagine how astonished I was when Mith turned out not to be a Duck. Still, it served my purposes as it was pretty much accepted thereafter that the Goose was dead (sorry, Glirdy).

Sorry also to Nilp, spawn and Jenny for not helping you out. I had no idea you were Ducks (although I had a feeling about spawn). I was rather pleased with my role in "outing" Mith (happily accepting the idignity of being labelled stupid), but was horrified when Glirdan then came out and named spawn. When spawn was lynched and turned out to be a Duck, I thought that it was all over (not knowing there was an additional Duck) and that my "outing" of Mith had lost us the game.

Thereafter, assuming Mith was the final Duck, I set about defending her. When she died and was shown to be innocent, I didn't know what to believe. But I thought "What the heck?". My guess was that one of them had been a False Owl.

...

I was so distraught last Friday that I was ready to quit. Boromir steadied my nerves and pointed out that the Saucepan Man was on my side. I did point out that since he had been trying to kill me all week that was not reassuring. I was sure you were being deliberately obtuse.... that day and the pickiness over semantics and punctuation was just too small minded. Especially annoying sinceI had (in my break- neck lunch time post) been quite pleased I had stopped myself using the definitely negative "In cahoots" and substituted the at least relatively neutral "in league". So I do think it funny you really thought I was a Duck....it provides some small comfort...

[JennyHallu]

I was sure you were the Goose, Mith, just because you were so distraught, and so much chaos spun out around you.

[Diamond18]

I would like to extend a special thanks to LMP. He helped me suss out the "secret" idea, working out something that would be exciting but still provide each side with equal chances of winning. He also had to endure some rather overdramatic "worried-mod" PMs. So thanks a million, Elempi!

[Nogrod]

Holy Goose!

Well, I thought it aloud here even today, that there was something not right in that Mith - Glirdan -thing...

But just pure excellence, Saucepan Man!!! (Although it was a bit nasty to take advantage of my absence from the active game-play.)

And Kath! Just miraculous escapes day after another - and then victory, with a most valiant adjutant.

Morm! I'm really sorry about you, but I quite truly believed you to be playing a fake game. My bad, I guess.

I'll comment some more tomorrow.

But just a fascinating game!


And Diamond! You truly are the Queen of all the Moddess-Goddesses!!! And so mean... :cool:

[Anguirel]

I have some of the Hawk-Nightingale correspondence-generally more of Lalaith's than mine-and will happily publish a slightly expurgated version if people want and Philomela agrees.

It'll be amusing for you all to see how much more often she was right than I...

[Mithalwen]

Ang, I did wonder if the Nightingale was already dead (though obviously I wasn't going to point it out!) when you said that you had disagreed and so Glirdan had been protected the previous night. I had thought Cailin was the most likely Philomela - especially when you fudged the gender!!! - but she had seemed moderately pro-me. Poor Glirdan, I know only to well how he felt. It could so nearly have been 5 innocents leaving/ defaulting....

[Diamond18]

I saved all of Ang's Hawk PMs and they create a poem that goes thusly:

In case I'm lynched I now declare
That Cailín my beak should beware...

Tonight no difference does this make
But mormegil I'd to grave take

No need to change my choice at all,
In machinating morm's downfall.

Avaunt! Away! Another pick
And let my talons Miss Spawn prick

I hope I still have sundry time,
But Valier gets this death-rhyme.

Lynching will surely not me slay
But if so, make that Jenny pay...

I have decided, after all
That Glirdan must by my claws fall.

[Lote22]

Well that was an interesting game. Congratulations Kath and SPM on the victory! You both played well!

I knew Glirdan was telling the truth! But sorry Mith for saying you were a lyer. I never considered that there would be two Owls!

Also, good job Diamond on the modding! Your twists were an interesting idea!

Anyway, I had a lot of fun in my first game. Can't wait to play again.

Cheers! :smokin:

[Kath]

Sauce, until last Night when I was thinking things over I hadn't even thought there could still be a Goose in the game! I kept you alive because you were coming up with the arguments against people I was just too stressed to manage, and because you were supporting me. That had struck me as a little odd I must say, but I wasn't about to complain!

And Kath! Just miraculous escapes day after another - and then victory, with a most valiant adjutant.
Tell me about it! The sheer panic at the end of each Day knowing I was going to miss the last 3 hours :rolleyes: Poor Diamond got some seriously freaked out PMs.

I wanted to just make special mention of Lote though. For a first game that was a good bit of playing. And well done to non-Cailin too! Let's hope we see him with his own account soon.

[mormegil]

Sauce were you poking serious holes in my cases or were they contrived? I thought I had some decent evidence but you kept shooting everything down that I did and I guess the village decided to listen to you. :( :mad: :rolleyes: . It was horrible to have both Kath and SpM around at the end, as they are both two that I always find suspicious. I kept asking myself "am I just assuming they are guilty because I always do?"

During the last day there was a short moment, short mind you, when I considered the possibility that Nogrod was actually the converted one but then I rethought the probabilities and rethought my arguements and was more convinced of Kath's guilt.

It was frustrating to try and be altruistic and have it be suspicous instead. My last post of the game that Diamond quoted was true feelings.

Despite the stress and frustration a truly enjoyable game. I loved the twists Diamond though comically my Goose/Owl talk at the start turned against us as we had two Owls so everybody thought that my plan had been implimented.

[The Saucepan Man]

“You can’t take two of us!” exclaimed Not-Cailín, and turned to Saucepan Orc for support. To his horror, he saw not Saucepan Orc, but a large, smug looking Goose.

“Honk,” said Saucepan Goose.Perfect! :D

They dined on villagers, and slices of quince
Which they ate with a rucible spoon;
And wing in wing, on the edge of the pond
They danced by the light of the moon
The moon
The moon,
They danced by the light of the moon!Aw, shucks. How sweet. But we shall have be divorced before the next game, as I have promised myself to Celuien. ;)

A great ending, Diamond, to top all the wonderful Day/Night interludes that you wrote. Really, great credit to you. Not only did you mod wonderfully, but your rules made for an exceptionally exciting, paranoia-inducing, roller-coasting, at times very stressful, but ultimately fantastically enjoyable game.

Sauce you are an absolute gem!You are most welcome, my Lady Duck. And you were cool as a cucumber under some pretty heavy pressure there.

Excellent job, by the way, Saucy- a much better showing than as a Cobbler in Anguirel's game.Schtoopid Heroes! At least the Ducks had the good sense not to kill me.

Which brings a point to mind. What would have happened had the Ducks targeted me, or one of the Gifteds, on Night 2, Di?

Saucie, I have got to believe you thought me innocent, since you got me killed. But...I forgive you, because this is the first time being on the evil side has been a winning situation for me.Yeah, sorry about that. I had to pick some suspects and thought the best cases that I could make were against you and morm. I really was rather surprised and annoyed when you turned out to be a Duck. I didn’t vote for you though, as I was more certain of morm’s innocence.

My tactics were quite straightforward. Try to look innocent and stay alive as long as possible until I might be of some use to the Ducks. Had an opportunity presented itself to declare as a Gifted, I had it in mind. The Goosey strategy morm outlined had already occurred to me as a possibility, in the right circumstances. I was incredibly lucky though, being declared innocent and then it looking like the Goose had been killed. Although towards the end I was rather happy that I wasn’t a complete “known” innocent as it kept alive the opportunity for me to sacrifice myself, should circumstances require. My final day tactic was to lay into Nogrod in an attempt either to make myself look like the Duck and provoke a vote for me (hence my deliberate mistake about the odds) or to get him lynched. I could not be sure he was not the Duck, so voting for him was a risk, but he sounded so genuine throughout. And it was a better bet than voting for myself, because I suspected that Nogrod might be the Nightingale.

Sauce were you poking serious holes in my cases or were they contrived? I thought I had some decent evidence but you kept shooting everything down that I did and I guess the village decided to listen to you.Well, they were certainly contrived. But (at times, bitter) experience has taught me that you can generally make a case against anyone if you try hard enough. Perfectly innocent comments or slips can be made to look sinister (sorry, Mith :rolleyes: ) and voting records can be painted as just too Duckish to be Duckish, if you get my meaning. With you and Noggy, I thought your votes for spawn and Jenny could be quite credibly be viewed as Duck-on-Duck votes. And I am afraid that your request to Mith not to dream of you was a bit of a gift.

It would have been interesting to see how things would have gone had no one left the game. I suspect that Kath and I might have been hard pushed to stave you all off for what would have been another Day at least. Although the voting would probably have gone completely differently, and there would have been more people to (possibly) make cases against, so who can tell?

[Diamond18]

Ahhhhh... the awards have arrived in their bubble wrap -- custom made, limited edition Goomba Golden Ducks, the most coveted awards in Ducktapia. Special thanks to Mr. Goomba for designing all these lovely Duckies.

And the winners are:


Nilpaurion Fowlagund:

The "Live Fast, Die Young" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Nilp.jpg) Award

It was really more bad luck than anything that got Nilp killed the first day, but I have to point out that the perennial self vote did not exactly help matters any. :p Still, a fun single post which gave me ideas for the death scene. Hopefully I'll get to play with you a bit longer in LMP's game.

Dancing Duck of Ungoliant:

The "I See My Reputation Precedes Me" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Spawn.jpg) Award

It's always hard to be a Werecreature when you're the sort of person the Seer wants to dream of as soon as possible.

Lalaith:

The "Ghost of the Nightingale" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Lalaith.jpg) Award

It’s really too bad she got killed so soon... but her ghost did have some effect on the game!

Roa Aoife:

The "Holy Wereducks, Batwoman!" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Roa.jpg) Award

I was so sorry to see her go early, but glad to have her in the game. I laughed so much over her first post, with the batman references, so really, what better award....

Sleepy-Wan Rangeobi:

The "Lightsaber / Sexiest Hair" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Sleepy.jpg) Award

I'm really sorry Sleepy had to leave mid-game... however I appreciated the opportunity for bad Star Wars jokes he provided in not one but two narrative posts. Oh, and he wanted the Sexiest Hair award. :p

JennyDucku:

The "The Quicker Quacker Backer / You Only Live Twice" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Jenny.jpg) Award

Being the cursed villager gave her a second, more dastardly, chance at life in the game, and she did her best with it despite some unfortunate RL constraints. Also, the rhyme she included in her PM on Night 4 still cracks me up.

Anguirel:

The "Papageno the Cod-Rhyming Hawk" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Ang.jpg) Award

Every death pick came to me in rhyme, which tickled me to no end. (And the rhymes themselves are posted above.)

Glirdan:

The "Destroyers and Usurpers, Curse Them!" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Glirdan.jpg) Award

Both Owls had their work cut out for them, and Glirdan had the most trouble being believed, even after Spawn's death. I was in disbelief about that -- but then, maybe I just think things are so obvious because I came up with them. This phrase, along with the image of an angry ent, kept running through my head during Day 3, so it seemed fate that ended up having Ang and Glirdan's death scenes come together that Night.

Lote22:

The "Virgin Eyes" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Lote.jpg) Award

New to the game, she saw something fowl in Nilp's behavior not realizing it was his usual thing -- but turned out to be correct and helped lynch the first Duck.

Mithalwen:

The "Cassandra" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Mith.jpg) Award

In Mith's own words, being an Owl felt like being the doomed Cassandra. It was an extra challenging position for this game, too!

mormegil:

The "It's KATH you FOOLS!" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Morm.jpg) Award

Poor mormy, he knew it was Kath all along and got worked to death for his perceptiveness!

Valier:

The "Buffy the Wereduck Slayer" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Valier.jpg) Award

I do believe she dealt the killing blow to each Wereduck that died. Actually I know she did because I kept featuring her as the final executioner in all my narratives!

Nogrod:

The "No One Analyzes Like the Nog-Man" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Nogrod.jpg) Award

Noggie looked at the game from every possible angle, seeing even more possibilities than I did as the mod, and I was rather impressed. A bit unfortunate though that he analyzed himself into a hole in the end. ;)

Cailín & Not-Cailín

The "Freaky Friday" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Cailin.jpg) Award

Many thanks to Cailín and her brother for working out a way to keep "her" in the game. And since Not-Cailín voted for Wereducks every time, he’s a rather good player in his own right! Perhaps Not-Cailín will sign up and play with us himself in the future?

The Saucepan Man:

The "Goosey Goosey Gander" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/SpM.jpg) Award

I can't imagine it hurt any to have two Owls causing confusion and looking goosey, but SpM managed to fool most of the people most of the time for a rather long time, and was instrumental in the final result. Quite an impressive show of cunning, I must say!

Quath:

The "She Who Quacks Last Quacks Loudest" (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sarahlitarose/WDA/Kath.jpg) Award

Congratulations to the victor! Truly an example of getting away with murder.

[mormegil]

As far as Glirdan is concerned, if he'd only dreamt the last day I would possibly have been convinced of a double owl game, but when he didn't dream it was far 'too convinient' of the goose.

[Diamond18]

Which brings a point to mind. What would have happened had the Ducks targeted me, or one of the Gifteds, on Night 2, Di?

I should have said, first successful Ordo kill. I suppose I could have changed a Gifted, but imagine how crazy that would have been, especially since Lalaith and Ang were PMing each other. I would have turned you, though, since you're not technically gifted and were on the Ducks side to begin with. There was always the chance the Ducks would never pick an ordo or be successful... but that was pretty slim.

Thank you to everyone who has lavished praise upon my modding and writing skills. There were times when I was sure I'd gone with too ambitious a rules scheme and was going to be the worst mod ever; but I'm glad everyone enjoyed (or at least appreciated) the craziness in the end. :D

[Valier]

Thanks Diamond for the award! Maybe one of these days I will learn to trust my own gut feelings, when I have them. I loved your death scenes! I was quite pleased when I got to kill most of the Ducks with my own hands!:D

[Nogrod]

I was thinking about a little story called: A poor boy who almost burned his brains in a game, and just didn't know, where to start. Happily Morm gave me this nice start:
As far as Glirdan is concerned, if he'd only dreamt the last day I would possibly have been convinced of a double owl game, but when he didn't dream it was far 'too convinient' of the goose.That was the clue in my game. I just couldn't believe this dAY2 stuff: it was too weird anyway. The only rational explanation I could come to, was the "two Owls"-solution - which I voiced out a couple of times, wishing you others to comment on it, to no avail... :( I mean: that was just too stupid gaming to a goose! If he had something to hide, why didn't he tell us a lie of a dream another time (Spawn-one would have been one already!!!)!!! He was just too real Owl to be the pretender!

I tried the goose-Mith -stuff, to get some reactions from you, to help me make my mind about this stuff, but that seemed to be a dead end too. Even though Glirdy looked so genuine, Mith had given us two innocents ( one of them Spm!!! :eek: ), but nothing more: a duck (or a goose) could give them anytime! No-one wished to comment on it. Was it so smoothing to have things clear in the village as not to bother with contrasting points of views? Why didn't I believe in myself in the end? Oh, why? :D

Just total "Headbangers Ball"-stuff all the game! Nothing seemed right - and I was so frustrated when no-one wanted to listen!

So in the end I started to disbelieve it myself, and kind of started to believe you others (I thought, I couldn't be the only one seeing it, so I was seeing ghosts) - what a mistake! That just let Spm off my radar the two important days: I was looking elsewhere, thinking, I would have time to settle things with Spm before the end. That end came then quickly enough... And I admit, that the thought of Spm being the goose almost never reached my mind (I merely thought of him as a good company in the duck-hunt, or the duck himself). So beautifully the general consensus of things derailed me, and I'm pretty ashamed of that...

But really: I should have seen so many things! If they (Mith & Glirdy) were both Owls, there was the goose left. I even wrote this in at least one post. But I didn't care about it enough myself, but went after easier things! Or Spm's gradual case against me! He started it one or two days earlier: first with casual notes, then pressing all the more. Why didn't I attack him back yesterday? Just some convenience: I'll deal with those attacks (and maybe launch a counter-attack) tomorrow, as I can't be sure. And this day was just a catastrophe! I also tried to say on the last morning, that do not vote hastily, as there is the chance of the duck capitulating on the vote - but still I hadn't quite grasped the situation, where the goose and the duck could just make it together, if they trusted each other (or another one of them trusted).

So once again: fantastic game: Sauce, and Kath!

And as I have said before: I really enjoyed this, even though losing this way kind of frustrates...

This was probably the weirdest game I've ever been in. And it was worth it!

Thanks everyone!

PS. And to the speculations: had Roa, Sleepy etc. been in the game? Well, we never know but one thing: it would have been different! That's the thing: you can't play the same game twice - or have a same game with changing people! So much fun then!

[The Saucepan Man]

Although it was a bit nasty to take advantage of my absence from the active game-playSorry Noggy, but all's fair in love and Werewolf ...

A few thoughts on my fellow players (as seems to be a bit of a tradition in the WWJ games) …

Nilpaurion Felagund - Your death wish was bound to get you in trouble one of these days. As I said, it serves you right. ;) Shame to see you go so early, though.

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant - Somehow, I had a feeling you might be a Duck. Which is why I joined forces with you against Mith. You were, as usual, great while you lasted. Sorry to see you go so early.

Elu Ancalime - Shame about your computer problems. And I still don’t get what you meant by that post about everyone being so analytical.

Lalaith - You were on my list of possible Nightingales, but I fell for Ang’s ruse. I wish I had your ability to pack so many good points into so few words.

Roa Aoife - I hope that all’s well with you now. I was sorry to see you go, but also kind of relieved. You can be scary in these games, and I am glad I did not have to come up against you.

Sleepy Ranger - An entertaining cameo role. I was sorry to see you go too. I think that you might also have proved a handful, had you stayed.

JennyHallu - What can I say? Sorry I contributed to your lynching. It’s a shame that you were not able to be around more, because I was looking forward to playing a game with you. You handled the transition from Ordo to Duck seamlessly, though.

Anguirel - You have nothing to be ashamed of. You could not know that there were two Owls. And preserving Mith’s life for one more day and deceiving us (me) into thinking the Nightingale might still be alive were great moves. And I always enjoy your erudite and entertaining posts - even when you were pointing me out as the Goose.

Glirdan - Sorry I had to paint you as the Goose. I felt pretty guilty at the time. But it is, after all, a game. Great picks as the Owl.

Lote22 - A great record for picking Ducks in your first game. Sorry I chose you as one of my likely innocents to go against, but your stance against Mith provided me with an opportunity (and I thought her a Duck at the time).

Mithalwen - Ah, Mith. You should take it as a compliment that I targeted you early on, believing you innocent. I then thought us allies, and was glad of it, and was most surprised to see you killed overnight. Sorry for any anguish caused but, as you said, I’m not as green as cabbage-looking. ;) Good Owl picks, too.

Mormegil - I would have supported you to the hilt, had I been on your side. You had me rather worried with your case against Kath, so I really had no option but to try to discredit you. As always, a pleasure to play with you.

Valier - I think it was Cailín who said that you have an instinct for spotting Wolves/Ducks. She was right. Happily, I didn’t have to attack you as it was pretty clear you were doomed to die by Night after Mith named you as innocent.

Nogrod - Another one that I was looking forward to playing with for the first time. And you did not disappoint me. You really gave me a run for my money with your continued suspicion that there may have been two Owls. You came across as so genuine, I am really looking forward to seeing if you can maintain that when you are a Wolf (as one day you surely will be). And finally, someone to beat morm and I in the post count stakes. :D

Cailín - I am so glad that you were able to keep yourself in the game. And credit to non-Cailín too, for picking things up so quickly. He had me worried on the final day. And the two of you left me with no chance of trying to make a case against you. There was nothing incriminating there, so I just didn’t bother.

Kath - My Lady Duck and fellow (blind) conspirator. You kept your cool so well when, on multiple occasions, you looked a dead cert to be lynched. Well played, and it was a pleasure to play my part in your victory.

Great game, well played by all. It certainly ranks among the best that I have played in.

[The Saucepan Man]

Nogrod, I was incredibly surprised when I logged on on Day 3 and saw so much support for Mith. Delighted too, as I thought her the final Duck. The Night before, when spawn was lynched and Mith looked a dead cert to be the final Duck (not knowing that there were two left at the time), I thought our Goose was well and truly cooked. So, with so much support for her, I seized upon the opportunity to declare her the Owl and Glirdy the Goose.

My belief, on Day 3, that Mith was the final Duck was, by the way Jenny, the main reason that I had no reservations about declaring my suspicions of you. So it cut both ways.

Up until about Day 5, I thought that I had been a fairly useless Goose and that I had lost the Ducks the game. Thinking Mith the Duck until she died, I did not see how she could avoid suspicion until the end if she continued to stay alive.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, I was incredibly surprised when I logged on on Day 3 and saw so much support for Mith. Delighted too, as I thought her the final Duck. The Night before, when spawn was lynched and Mith looked a dead cert to be the final Duck (not knowing that there were two left at the time), I thought our Goose was well and truly cooked. So, with so much support for her, I seized upon the opportunity to declare her the Owl and Glirdy the Goose.

My belief, on Day 3, that Mith was the final Duck was, by the way Jenny, the main reason that I had no reservations about declaring my suspicions of you. So it cut both ways.

Up until about Day 5, I thought that I had been a fairly useless Goose and that I had lost the Ducks the game. Thinking Mith the Duck until she died, I did not see how she could avoid suspicion until the end if she continued to stay alive.

This is just the fun in this game! How differently can you see the game -and still come to trust / distrust the others!!! (I think in this thread it's safe to use some more exclamation marks than necessary,and still be avoiding the suspectible four! ;) ). Well, I too suspected Mith after Glirdy's revelation - not to say, after Spawn turned out a wolf. I just can't see, even if I started to trust Mith, how I let that suspicion of there being something totally wrong in the popular account (Mith = Owl, Glirdy = goose) gradually go! So stupid of me!!! I kind of noted it day after day, but actually did nothing to really go for it...

So as my trust to Mith grew all the time, your trust had just to be dropped off by her death - from exactly the opposite reasons!

Btw. I guess, your insecurity in those most important days just somehow came through, and gave me the "free"-signal -calling me not to start thinking about you in earnest... Funny, if it is like that? :)

[The Saucepan Man]

Btw. I guess, your insecurity in those most important days just somehow came through ...I wouldn't say that I was insecure. I was actually more confident once I thought I had found my Duck, as it gave me some purpose to my posts. Even though I was wrong ... :rolleyes:

And I was never fully confident at the end that Kath was the final Duck. I just had to stick with what I thought and waddle with it.

[Nogrod]

I wouldn't say that I was insecure. I was actually more confident once I thought I had found my Duck, as it gave me some purpose to my posts. Even though I was wrong ... :rolleyes:


Well, whatever it was. You just seemed more trustful to me on those days... On the first days I suspected you a lot - and so on the last days. But in the middle, I was quite confident... or just ignored you as a threat. As I've said before: my bad!

And I must confess that in the end your defence over Kath partly influenced my judgement on her - and that way turned me to look at Morm. What would have happened, if I had decided otherwise (as I had promised that morning), and had taken a closer look at Kath, and not Morm? She really flew under my radar almost all the game... :rolleyes:

[Roa_Aoife]

Well, that was the most interesting read I've had in awhile. I do apologize for having to drop out, but all the same, everyone did a really great job. We had a great group of really intelligent players. I have to say, the day after my departure, when I read everyone's suspicion of Glirdan, I was pretty shocked. I was yelling, "For heaven's sake, he gave you a Duck! What more do you want from him? If he were a Duck or a Goose, he would have made up a dream! Duh!"

Ang, don't feel bad. I've yet to play a game with a hunter where the hunter didn't kill the seer. In fact, I've almost decided that that's the true role of the hunter, and nothing else.

Oh, Nogrod, I was cheering for you this time. I kept saying, "Come on, Nogrod, you can spot the discrepencies, I know you can." I was thinking that you'd jump on it and tear it to pieces. You almost did too.

Valier, your instincts are really amazing. You almost had all the Ducks. You even picked up the Two Owls deal.

Kath, that was a brilliant display of luck and confidence working together. You were so cool about everything that I even started to doubt the case against you, and by that point I knew who you were!

Lote, good work for your first game. I hope next time you can get more involved and post a bit more.

Jenny, I never would have picked you. You are quite ferocious in your attacks. Always a pleasure.

Ah, Nilp, I won't lie- I don't like your Day 1 style. In fact, I hate it. However, I sincerely hope that in the next game we play together you live past Day 1 so I can see that awesome wit of yours put to work.

Saucie, I finally get to play a game with you, and I had to cut out! Ah, well. You are truly the force your reputation says you are. I look forward to the next game.

(Not-)Cailin, what a wonderful solution you came up with. Cailin was as good as always while she was in, and I hope NC joins up so he can play again as well. You did a great job picking things up quickly, and you were highly perceptive.

Spawn, being picked on Night 1 by the seer is the worst possible luck a Wolf can have. Even so, you did a great job. Those analysis were a great ploy.

Mith, you panicked a bit the first and second day, but after that you calmed down and became the reasonable thoughtful player I know you to be. Despite the confusion of two owls, you regained your head and even figured out what was going on. Kudos!

Morm, it's a shame people weren't listening to you. I had hoped you would be able to sway the remaining villagers, but you did well despite that.

Glirdan- I believed you! Unfortunately you were victimized by a terrible Goose, a lot of confusion from two owls, and people siding with others over previous dealings. Your reaction was perfectly understandable given the circumstances. I hope things get better for you.

Lalaith, I had no idea you had a special role. You just looked like a regular ordo to me, which I guess it what you're supposed to do. Great Job!

Elu, computer troubles are a terrible thing. I'm glad you got it fixed now.

Sleepy, you played well up until your departure. Looking forward to our marriage in the next game!

And of course, Diamond. Those were great death scenes! Two out of two little girls approve! I enjoyed reading them immensly. This was a great idea for a game. Such a fun twist!

[Hookbill the Goomba]

By request of Diamond...

Award pictures curtsy of Hookbill photo shopping INC.
Need a photo mangled? Call Hookbill now!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Kath, you are our hero! Although, I knew you could do it. That's why I always supect you on Day 3 by latest if I'm an Ordinary. ;)

I had a strange feeling of deja vu in this game. Once again, Mith was a gifted who made the trio's life more difficult, Sauce was the Cobbler (this time we let you live past Night 2, though!) and I was a hapless miscreant.

This is the third time in a row when I didn't live to see Day 3. :( This would have been a wonderful game to play... (Thanks a lot, Glirdy! :p ) Still, it was fun as long as it lasted, and the award is very pretty. As I thought, Diamond was a great mod, and my death was absolutely horrible (which is, of course, a compliment).

I guessed that Sauce is the Goose since he continued pursuing Mith with me. Also, I suspected that he would have gone after Kath had he been innocent. It was a great performance and very enjoyable to read.

Oh, and Valier, your instincts are scary! You voted for Nilp on Day 1, you were suspicious of me already before Glirdy's revelation on Day 2, you voted for Jenny on Day 3 and you voted for Kath on Day 5. Very nice!

[Lalaith]

Regarding Ang's suggestion of posting our correspondence, I too have kept most of our chat, and can collate/edit it for publication if anyone is interested. (We also sent a few PMs after we were both dead, speculating on duckish identities and the outcome of the game.)

Any ducks care to do the same?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I too have kept most of our chat, and can collate/edit it for publication if anyone is interested.Please, do. It would be nice to read them.

Any ducks care to do the same?Well, Nilp didn't make it on Night 1, on Night 2 Jenny and I didn't get to talk due to my full inbox and by Night 3 I was already choked on spiders, but I have saved the PMs Kath and I exchanged during Nights 1 and 2.

Kath and Jenny, do you have any PMs? I'd be interested to read them, too.

[Kath]

I'm afraid I didn't save any PMs this time no, though I don't know about Jenny. Still, you lot go yourselves killed so early we barely had time to communicate anyway!

Sauce, you really didn't get that I was the Duck? I felt so obvious!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm afraid I didn't save any PMs this time no, though I don't know about Jenny. Still, you lot go yourselves killed so early we barely had time to communicate anyway!Yeah... :o

Well, I'll post the PMs from Night 1 and 2 then.


Night 1:

spawn: Speaking of werewolfing - or wereducking... can I believe my luck! I'm thrilled to get to terrorize the village with you and Nilp.

Kath: I know! I get the most insane person and the most rational person to work with. Should be interesting. Speaking of that, we're allowed to start plotting now aren't we?

spawn: It's probably a bit hard to make any masterplans yet. Maybe we should play Day 1 in a same way as usual ie. even if one of us does something suspicious, we can point it out... normal innocent stuff. Oh, and the most important thing is to have fun.

Kath: That sounds like a very good plan. Let's just hope people go for the usual plan of thinking you innocent and thinking Nilp too insane to kill. It may serve us well.


Night 2:

Kath: Yes that did go rather badly, and now we've lost Nilp! I'd say going after Mith tomorrow would be a good idea. I can pick up on that statistic thing again, and her defensive overreactions to everything.

The one person I thought might be the Owl was Jenny for this sentence:(truly the largest I have ever overseen)

spawn: That's a good find. Also, her analyses can be scary, too. I'll go rereading her posts, but she could be one option. Do you think she might be acting Owlishly on purpose, though?

Kath: Well I was wondering about that, I think Nogrod said something about doing that to protect the real Owl from the Ducks (and doesn't saying that make you feel so silly!) and she has supported him over Roa most of the Day so perhaps.

Kath: The only person I would really advocate killing right now other than that [Jenny] would be Sauce. We both know what a dangerous player he is, so basically we have a choice between killing him now so there is no way he can work out that it's us or we can leave him for a few days and hope he doesn't figure that it's us and brings suspicion on itself.

spawn: I don't know about Sauce. He might be protected tonight... Also, he doesn't usually suspect us very early on.

Kath: This is true, and right now he thinks you innocent. Ok, we'll leave him for toNight.

Kath: Still, taking down someone who voted Nilp might be an idea. But who?

spawn: Sleepy? He didn't say much, so it doesn't leave many clues. Lote is a newcomer, it would be nice to let her play for a while and Valier might be protected because of her vote.

Kath: Sleepy's an odd one, he tends to bring suspicion on himself very quickly due to the way he plays. But if we really want to kill a Nilp voter then I would choose him over the others.

spawn: I've been working on a rather thorough case against Mith. I try to post it early tomorrow. I've also analysed Glirdan, Valier and Elu. I hope tomorrow goes more smoothly.

Kath: Ok, I'll leave that to you then. Your analyses are always helpful, and usually cause people to trust you. We need someone who will be trusted til the end!

spawn: We can see how Mith reacts to my case in the first place, but you questioned her pretty strongly yesterday, so go ahead and ask her for an explanation if you feel like doing it. If we attack her too strongly, though, I think Sauce won't be going after her so much anymore. I think he likes to muse things over by himself and too fierce accusations would feel as though we were swaying him.

Kath: Well, if you stick with your usual analysis style and I concentrate on the weirdness of her using statistics we might be ok as it will be an attack from two different fronts. But yes if he starts to stop suspecting her we might want to tone it down a bit.

spawn: Hmm, Jenny suspected Roa, Mith and Sleepy the most. I don't know if killing her will help or hinder our attempt to get rid of Mith. She didn't say much about either of us, but seemed to regard us as mostly decent villagers. I think she'd make a good snack.

Kath: Well, did she suspect her a lot? If not we should be ok killing her.

spawn: All she said was: "My suspicions right now fall mostly on Roa, Mith, and Sleepy" and "Mith because she didn't really make the logical sense today she usually does." She voted for Sleepy

Kath: Right that's ok then. That's not major suspicion.

spawn: So, is it going to be Jenny? Do you have any last ideas about what we shall do tomorrow, or who would be a better kill?

Kath: I think she's our best shot toNight. I can't see a better kill, and she tends to avoid suspicion so I think it would be a good thing.


There. I had to change the order of the PMs a bit to make it easier to read, but that's about all we talked. The rest is history.

[JennyHallu]

Sorry didn't save anything...

[Kath]

Ah well, after even Jenny had died all my PMs consisted of were fears that I would be dead the next Day and various scrounged up reasons for why I should or shouldn't kill this or that person.

If anyone really wants to know how they died by my beak I can try to remember!

[Diamond18]

Thanks, spawn, for the PM's. Interesting read -- I had been wondering just why you chose Jenny. Good thing for you that you didn't nix SpM, eh?


Well, Nilp didn't make it on Night 1,

Yes, which is why this post by Kath on Day 1 really cracked me up:


Ah I see Nilp has arrived! :rolleyes:

I kept expecting someone to read something into that, but no one did.

[Nogrod]

Thanks Spawn, nice read!

[Lalaith]

As Ang and I were both in the same timezone, and we could PM day and night, we produced *rather* a lot of material between us...I've tried to edit it down as much as poss. Just as well I was killed on Night Three, really....
Here is the correspondence for Night One and Day One. More to follow.
Night One:
Lalaith: Interesting twist of Diamond's, not revealing the role of the gifted after death. I feel for the poor Seer, s/he's going to have to come out as soon as they dream a Duck, as they can't leave any post-mortem hints.
Anguirel: Ah, this is perfect. Never been a Hunter before and I'm terribly excited…
I think you'll find Rangering rather fun. I certainly did. I like anticipating schemes and foiling evil plots even more than enacting them...
Now; when the Day starts I don't think it'll be that unwise for us to have quite a lot of conversation, if tinged with suspicion. After all, we usually do. Just get them thinking it's business as usual. We're also very lucky to be in precisely the same timezone...
As for Nightly choices-shall we decide them through mutual consultation or act as free agents? Or some kind of compromise?
PMing in the Day is going to be a gift. But like you I don't like the sound of the mysterious deaths. A dead Goose could pose as a dead Owl by sprinkling in hints. Ulp. Tricky.
But we have our own information on our side, so we might be able to tell when people are defending or attacking us with a false note. Then one of us can go for them for a completely different reason...
Ranger/Hunter pairs are usually quickly spotted by the wolves. But I think we might just prove an exception.
Anguirel Papageno, called "the Hawk

Lalaith: I think consultation, and compromise if we can, would be my preference for the Night choices. I'm very glad to have someone to bounce off during the decision-making process. Poor Spawn had to put up with the most dreadful screeds from me during the Shamville game (although that was partly of course due to the confusion caused by a certain Hunter-impersonating Fool) to which of course she could only make non-committal responses.

And yes, the usual banter should be maintained. I just hope you don't get yourself killed by the wolves early....they seem to like your taste....be careful!
Anguirel: good luck for tomorrow... Feel free to pick "fights" with my early posts though, and then I can "defend" them when I return.
Lal: Here's an early hunch: I don't think Diamond picked roles at random. So the Ducks might include some of the more interesting players. I'm looking at That Cailin, for starters.

Day One, the game has begun:

Anguirel: My main misgiving this morning...
Look at morm's first post. It seems to me he's asking to be guarded...
Now, why?
An unsubtle Owl?
A Duck or Goose leading us astray?
Or a selfish, canny villager?
Lal: Morm was a bit odd I agree. Goosey, even.
What about Cailin's comment about you and spawn, I kind of understood what she meant, but still....
Anguirel: Saucie too apparently thinks Morm the Goose...
You know what, does Mith give you a rather bad feeling, or just me? She's non-committal and normal and...statistical. And that comment about Hawk and Nightingale being in league...
I'm going to keep that suspicion to myself for a bit, but it struck me hard...
Lalaith: You're right… this Roa/Nogrod squabble does remind me of phantom/Eomer in WWIV, when of course both turned out to be innocent. Mith...well, last game I played in with her, she started arguing right away, got lynched first day and was in fact a wolf. Maybe she's being cautious because she doesn't want to get lynched again, but that doesn't mean she isn't a wolf.
PS. Nilp wasn't invisible this morning and I saw him PMing. I got a bit excited about that but of course now Diamond has confirmed Ducks can't PM during the Day.
Papageno: I'm leaning towards voting for Kath, a fairly neutral option, though am still tempted to vote morm...what about you?
Lalaith: I don't know who to vote for yet Protecting you seems to me as good an option as any:
1. You are one of those at risk of being killed, as Cailin so helpfully pointed out.
2. I know you are innocent.
3. I'd like to still be able to talk to you tomorrow...
Who are you going to hunt tonight? If, Eru forbid, you get lynched toDay, you may want to take someone with you.
Ang: Excellent point. Well, I'll go for Cailin now...she's not my top suspect but it's quite traditional...for my serious pick tomorrow we'll consult...

[Lalaith]

Nilp Fowlagund has been successfully lynched.
Anguirel: It's excellent, of course, but I may be under suspicion for defending Nilp...on the plus side though, I think that means I'm unlikely to be attacked tonight...
Lal: what about Spawn? I do remember her as a wolf once, getting found out on the first day, maybe wolfishness sits uneasily with her. I'm surprised about her asking about wolf PMs. She normally knows the rules better than anyone, and she herself has found it suspicious when others ask/bring up such things. (I remember in the last game, I reminded everyone about wolves PMing in the day, she and elempi were seers and in the post-game PMs published, she flagged it as a suspicious comment.)
Do you think Diamond would make those two wolves together?
Some more thoughts:
Mith - very defensive. But then again, she can be.. We should watch her closely.
Saucie - just making too much damn sense. Again, watch him like the hawk you are.
Cailin - she thinks highly of us which is obviously gratifying but we mustn't let flattery lull us into a false sense of security.
Jenny makes sense, I've not played with her before but she feels reasonably innocent to me. You've had more experience here...(NB, at this point Jenny was still innocent!)
Morm, Kath - I know we were suspicious of them at first and by the end of the Day, I was still wondering about them. Did you see Morm's comment about his grandmother - ie "i am little red riding hood, not the wolf"?
Roa and Nogrod - I find their rowing difficult to deal with but I realise that doesn't actually make them guilty.
Valier, Sleepy, Glirdan, Elu and Lote haven’t been especially helpful today and one of them may well be a duck. Not Lote, actually, I refuse to believe a young newbie would be so cunning as to vote for a fellow duck straight out like that. (of course, big sis wilwa might be advising her)
Valier of course made the decisive vote against Nilp which should clear her, but she's probably smart enough to do that even as a Duck.
Those who didn't vote - why? Nogrod's alarm probably didn't go off, maybe spawn also thought she'd wake up early and didn't. Elu and Glirdan were probably just preoccupied.
Some thoughts about the Hunter role: I found it difficult, when I was the Hunter, to reconcile my wish to survive with the fact that if I didn't die my gift was useless. Also, I was terrified of killing the wrong person.
How do you plan to play it? Will you try to survive regardless or will you try to die at some point?
Anguirel: This is the fun bit. We think like wereducks, and anticipate their actions, without the moral compromise and stress of having to be them!
I'll approach your suspects and points one by one :
I don't yet particularly distrust spawn yet. A little hypocrisy perhaps in her question about PMs, as you say, but I feel there's more idleness than intrigue, which I can sympathise with.
On the other hand, it seems to me that Mith rather over-eggs the anti-spawn case over the PMs question. I also agree with Kath's worry about her statistical stuff, as you know. It seems unlike her. I strongly suspect Mith and may Hunt her tonight.
Saucie-well, I agree with you. I was contorting my self to find a proper weak spot. I can't find any grounds for suspicion yet really.
I still slightly suspect Cailin although not strongly. Still I no longer take her first words as a threat.
I think Jenny might be the Owl. I can't see many other explanations for her low profile.
Kath is no longer worrying me due to her later contributions. And though Jenny picked up the Little Red Riding Hood aspect I think it's a stretch too far...morm doesn't really work like that. Remember his odd request to hire protection at the beginning though? And his flawed attempt to make us wary of Owl-hoots? Hmm.
I genuinely do suspect Roa a bit-because of the rapidity with which she moved from defending to attacking Nogrod fiercely on the Owl point. The likelihood is though that they're both innocent.
Not much to say about the quiet ones, except that when we were wolves together, I sort of tutored Valier in the paths of unrighteousness, and I pulled the same trick she might have done today-needlessly killing our fellow wolf to strengthen my cred. So I wouldn't be that surprised if she's taken up that habit.
Now, my approach to the Hawk role-I can explain best by quoting Hector. "No man shall send me down to Hades before my time." I intend to die, but in the late stages if possible when I have a much more certain bead on a wolf than I do now.

This means I may ask you to guard me sometimes, but not, I think, tonight, as I don't see there's a real likelihood I'll be attacked. You may perhaps think differently, but I think my defence of Nilp might prove fortunate.

Any Owl-hinters, do you think? I think morm might be one, but I doubt his veracity seriously. Still, I think you should either take him at his word and guard him, or guard one of the most high-profile players, like Saucie, who might be at risk if Mith is a wolf, having also contributed to Nilp's fall.
What do you think?
Lalaith: One other thing - I think Ducks will be much less concerned about finding the seer than they normally are. So I think protecting helpful players, rather than possible seers, is the way forward for me.
Lal: another question - why, if Mith is a wolf, would she try to get a high-profile player like spawn lynched on the first day? If she's worried about spawn, she could kill her at night, couldn't she? It's highly unlikely that a spawn bandwaggon would succeed on the first day...much better to go for a low-level ord.
Anguirel: Because it's what she'd do were she not a duck? Because spawn is an unusually suspicious-looking candidate at the moment? The two combine to in principle make it look like both a brave and a sensible vote-but not so sensible that spawn will actually be pushed into the lead.
I don't think Mith was expecting or hoping spawn would be lynched-a reliable wolf tactic is to strongly attack someone who's well defended and will probably not be lynched-they then sidestep all blame for deaths that follow.
I agree with you about Owls...not so much that the ducks won't try to get them, but that, bar chance, they won't be able to get them, due to the reticence of the Owl on hints...so that means that they are likely to attack whoever they think is being most helpful, or has the best potential, to the village.
This is where you have to ask: as a duck, who would you go for? You can even add: as a duck with Nilp, your fellow duck, recently outed, who would you go for? And who would you think the Nightingale would guard? Where would you feint? etc.
Think about it and try and sketch out a picture, and I'll do the same. You can of course insist on guarding me if that truly seems the best choice. Maybe it's cowardice as the Night draws on, but I'm starting to think about it myself!
Oh, and were you the Hunter, would you go for Spawn? Saucie? Mith? Cailin?
Mith and Roa are leading for me at the moment I think...arrrgh...
Lalaith: You've put me to rights about the Mith/spawn thing, thank you. (at least for now)
So, who voted for Nilp?
Other than le canard soi-meme, it was Valier, Lote and Sleepy. If any of those are the Owl, I'm a Dutchman.
You know, I'm damn glad I didn't vote for Nilp, as I nearly did, or they might have had me out for Minerva's familiar. As it is, I think I might be all right.
I do think protecting you tonight would get us both off the hook. It's a good option for first night, because neither of us really have that much to go on. Of course might regret it tomorrow if you look to be in more danger. Oh, I don't know. Maybe we should go back to plan A, where you hunt Mith/Roa and I protect, I think, Saucie.
You decide.
Anguirel: Okay. Cowardice has won, and I'd rather strike my Pyrrhic blow tomorrow night than tonight. I just don't have enough information yet.
Please protect me after all-which makes my target academic. I'll hunt morm tonight just for the principle of the thing...
I don't think I'll be attacked actually, but a successful save might actually be counter-productive at this stage. The ducks had better not attack you though...but there's nothing we can do if they decide to. There's no one more helpless than a Ranger/Nightingale...
Maybe get yourself into a more suspicious position tomorrow? Pick a fight? We really don't want them cottoning on to you.
Lalaith: The only thing I'd worry about re being eaten by Ducks is if I accidentally said the right thing and made myself look Owlish. (as I nearly did with Nilp) Otherwise, there's enough heavyweights around, for Ducks not to bother themselves overmuch with little me...on the other hand, Rangers do not have a good survival rate. Well, lets see what tomorrow brings. You're right, though, being in a Good Conspiracy is fun, rather like the French Resistance...

[Lalaith]

Day Two:
I am being more ruthless with editing, you’ll be glad to hear. We are of course delighted that my save appears to have been successful. We speculate a lot on why the ducks chose Anguirel, and what we should do next in light of this - speculation that I won’t bore you with as it was of course based on a completely false premise.

Lalaith: I'm still not happy with spawn. Her summaries so far are unusually verbose and lack her customary incisiveness.
Ang: Do you think I should state my genuine suspicions today or dissemble? For instance, I could hide my true feelings against Mith by denouncing Spawn, with a view to shooting Mith tonight.
Do you really suspect Roa that much? All your other statements seemed genuine, but there you almost seemed to be stating my view rather than yours...did I convince you? I'm not so sure of my Roa theory myself anymore...
Lalaith: No, I do suspect Roa, and unless something else happens, or you persuade me otherwise, I'll probably vote for her tonight . However, I am more suspicious of spawn than I said I was, in my post just now. I'm in watching mode, however.
(At this point Saucie makes his bird-lime suggestion and throws us both into a panic)
Ang: On the Nightingale's consecutive guarding...what could it mean?
Ordinary villager being officious?
Duck being unsubtle and unSaucelike but possibly trying to out the Nightingale through reactions?
Owl who thinks he was guarded last night and is worried, or just generally wants to find out about his life expectancy?
To me this is a far more "red alert" question than spawn's one on PMs...
Lalaith: Yes, absolutely, major red alert, which is why I have been studiously ignoring his remarks. I had thought of the first two options but not third, Owl one.
I am obviously not going to ask him what he was on about but maybe you could. They (the ducks) know you're NOT the guardian, as you couldn't have guarded yourself.
Or maybe...wait....he's a duck trying to find out if you really are the hawk. Because as the hawk, you would know that it was you that was guarded last night, and thus you would be more interested in this question.....
Ang: Another, and ironic, possibility is that Saucie himself is our pate-de-foie-gras gander! (Editor’s note – oh clever Ang)
Lal: Saucie as goose....interesting...I'm also wondering if Roa might be the Goose. Very goosey, actually, to provoke Nogrod like that, and she knows him well. Her rage against Nilp might be 'how can I help you if you won't help yourself...'
Ang: So are we just completely playing it cool about Saucie's question? With luck a player like Nogrod will realise just how peculiar it is, I suppose.
I'm probably going to have to commit myself by voting morm tonight. I might provisionally shoot Mith-lynchings can be frightfully sudden affairs-and then we'll think what to do toNight. But that's still a while in the future.
Support my morm movement if you like-I'm inclined to think it'll lessen rather than increase suspicion of a link. And we'll comb the thingamajig for strategy hints.
It's amazing to think we have only two and a half foes-I feel as if there are still at least four! (Editor's note: Again, clever Ang...)
Lalaith: I know what you mean...however I don't think I will vote morm. It looks too inconsistent, I've said nothing about him other than that he is vaguely goosey. I think I will stick with Roa unless something bad happens, eg if I have to save you or me. But neither of us seem under much suspicion.
I want to hear Saucie's protection racket. I hope he posts it soon
Ang: That Nogrod......I think the apposite phrase is a brick. (Editor’s note: To those not versed in English slang - this is a compliment, we are delighted that Noggie has just asked Saucie exactly what he meant by his plan) Just as I predicted! The ducks might even think he's the Ranger...
Lal (posting around midnight after the double Seer debacle, after Ang’s server has shut down) I'm certainly in no mood to try to dissect this all now. Despite my misgivings about spawn earlier, I'm just not going to trust Glirdan blindly.
Lets see what the lynching brings and have a proper chat tomorrow.

[JennyHallu]

I got so irritated that people commented and commented on how quiet I was...and I was honestly kicked off the internet at work, and had no time. I've fudged on that some, but not that week....

[Lalaith]

I know, Jenny, must have been very annoying...
Anyway, this is my final installment, phew.

Night three
Ang:I missed the climax of this drama, Glirdan's arrival. Even with spawn unmasked, I'm unwilling to trust him! I was so convinced my Mith's revelation-could all that Iliad stuff be a mere ruse...? What if Glirdan's the final duck? We should test him by not guarding him, perhaps...
Thank God we both stayed quiet. You're the village's most important asset right now and I don't think the duck has a clue who you are.
Lal: I know what you mean about the Glirdan/Mith thing. I just instinctively was more inclined to trust her.
Ang: I now think Glirdan can't be a duck-it's a move that leads to inevitable long term defeat if he is. But he could be a Goose who tried things out and got lucky-seeing Spawn as a likely duck for the same reasons you did.
I came round to your view by the way. Before Glirdan's arrival, I'd left with my beak trained not on morm but Spawn... I think you should call Glirdan's bluff and guard Mith at the moment.
Lal: I'm not convinced - yet - about protecting Mith. I'll throw my own plan at you later, for you to pick holes in. Incidently, what about this 'hidden aspect' Diamond mentioned, have you given that any thought? Don't tell me, you're really a duck...

Lalaith:
Possible Glirdan scenarios:
1. Glirdan is a goose. But WHY then in the name of all that is quacky would he offer up a duck for lynching? He wants the ducks to win. And he couldn't have known for sure that spawn was a duck.
2. Glirdan is a duck. If so, he will be unmasked either today or tomorrow, and lose. (Partly because if he survives more than two nights he is clearly a duck)
3. Glirdan is an owl. In which case we need to find the last duck.
Why Glirdan might be the goose/duck:
post 256 where the scenarios seem badly thought out.
Why Glirdan might be the owl:
because the other options make little or no sense.


Possible Mith scenarios
1. Mith is a goose. In which case Glirdan is the owl, Glirdan scenario 3, and we don't know who the duck is, but Glirdan might dream him/her tonight.
2. Mith is a duck. In which case, ditto as Glirdan scenario 2.
3. Mith is the owl. In which case Glirdan must be the duck because it is so unlikely that he is the goose (vid. Glirdan scenario one)

There is also the option that Mith is a Goose and Glirdan a duck. In which case we will also find this out in the next two days, and win.

So, if Mith is the owl, we do not need to protect her because we know anyway that Glirdan is the duck.
But if Glirdan is the owl, we DO need to protect him as Mith is probably the Goose and we still don't know who the duck is.

Now, shoot away, Papageno.

PS I looked on Saucie's Grimoire and found that the Ranger has had a zero survival rate.
Ang: That's because they tend to reveal themselves. Make sure you don't and you might yet break the mould. Besides, they've survived in WWJ games, I think. Take heart.

Now. Glirdan. As I say, I really cannot see him as a Duck anymore. Why would a Duck act as he has done? There's no way they could win.
I dismiss the idea of both being guilty. Surely the real Owl would have come forward? Unless they're being seriously canny and longtermish.
Mith seemed so blasted genuine. Maybe Goose Glirdan hoped to have a shot at assassinating a duck many of us suspected as such and so getting cred; effectively sealing Mith's doom; and giving the last wolf, about whom he had no clue, a chance at Kurusing it to the end.
Odd coincidence that both Owls declare Sauce innocent...a very plausible choice of dream by Glirdan, eh, particularly as it required little rejigging from Mith's mindset.
If Glirdan is the goose, remember the last duck won't himself know who is the real Owl.
Note Glirdan didn't apparently take in that roles are hidden at death-what does that say about his strategy?
Is there some, shudder, Third Way of compromise we could take? I don't really know who to hunt-my suspects have been shot to pieces and I fear my morm case was shoddy.

Lalaith: As for hunting, do you think you're a likely kill-candidate? I'm pretty sure either Glirdy or Mith, whichever is the real McCoy, are for the chop tonight.
I'm just still not convinced about Goose Glirdy. Getting a seer eaten is just not enough payback for losing a wolf. I could have protected Mith toNight but she'd have been eaten tomorrow anyway.
If Goose-Glirdy had been wrong about spawn, he would have been revealed as a fraud and lynched tomorrow, and Mith would still have been protected tonight.
It would have been too silly to say it, unless he was sure and the only way he could be sure was if he was a duck or owl.
Oh dear. I wish you weren't so convinced about Mith's genuineness.
And what about Diamond's hidden agenda, which I mentioned earlier today?
Ang: I agree, I'm not that likely a candidate, but I need to keep up appearances-and there is the fact that the duck knows I'm unguarded. And could kill two innocents. I'd say after the two Owls I'm one of the more possible targets.
Diamond's secret won't affect the the game- it'll be an anagram or a literary reference or some similar easter egg.
You'd best protect Glirdan if you feel he's the more likely. In any case thanks to spawn's demise it's no catastrophe. I'll analyse to find a suitable hawk victim.

Lalaith: Well, leave me a message to let me know who you hunt.
I don't know, maybe Diamond's secret is that there are two owls!!
Ang: I will not hunt morm-that's what the last duck expects me to do.
I am literally shooting in the dark when I choose Valier. I have had a little suspicion of her for a long time and I increasingly trust to marginal, out of the way, "winging" Hawking. I did after all pick Spawn last night before the two Owls controversy...
So...let's hope.

After both Nightingale and Hawk had died, their ghosts resumed some correspondence:

Lal: Oh, I was SO cross on Saturday morning.
You did exactly the right thing, I suspected you might be killed, and was hoping you would make Glirdan your hunt. I think we can assume Morm is innocent, don't you?
That fourth wereduck, grrr...and there I was, so pleased with my save...
Ang: At least thanks to my deception about Philomela Mith got an extra dream. I was pleased with that. Now we can have fun watching their efforts to find the Nightingale!
I suspect Valier again. But I had to remove Glirdan and his chaos, goose or duck.
It is sad about your save, but you did do well nonetheless. I wonder how on earth they spotted you...
Lal: Yes, the Philomela subterfuge was excellent, well done.
You know, I wonder if Mith turns out to be the last duck after all...the existence of an extra duck would make a false seer move more sensible.
Otherwise I would say Valier or Noggie. He changed so abruptly in style after day one...
If I were still in the village I would insist Diamond answer the following questions:
1. Did the ducks know that their first kill would join them, beforehand?
2. Was the cursed villager pre-selected and the ducks got very lucky, or would any first duck kill become a duck?

A day or two later…

Lalaith: I can't believe they killed Morm, the fools!
Who do you think the final duck is? I'm starting to wonder about Saucie...I fear we've lost. What do you think?
Ang: I'm sure it's Nogrod. He encouraged the nonsensical Kath/morm duel and pretended to trust Mith while she lived only to cast doubt on her after her demise, when her Owlishness was painfully obvious.
I trust Saucie and I think he's onto him. At one point he asked morm and Kath to consider that they might both be innocent...they ignored him...
But I'm confident Saucie will swing Kath-for Nogrod will surely kill Valier-and they'll unmask the final Duck, I hope.
Lal: I hope so. But I can't understand why Saucie, whose intellect I have the greatest respect for, didn't light on the obvious point (made by Mith before her death) that morm would never have risked killing you. Which makes me suspect him.
But you're right, Noggie is pretty suspicious too.
And the absence of Cailin/not Cailin is sorely felt.
Oh well, we shall see...

[Kath]

PS I looked on Saucie's Grimoire and found that the Ranger has had a zero survival rate.
That's probably down to me. My life as Ranger is rarely long!

Thanks for those PMs Lalaith, it's nice to see what you guys were thinking, since we Ducks had to try and work it out each Night!

[Nogrod]

Thanks Lalaith!

It was just so good read! And how you gifteds can be so right, and then so wrong!

Just nice stuff to see...

And really well thought of, by both of you two!

[Diamond18]

Diamond's secret won't affect the the game- it'll be an anagram or a literary reference or some similar easter egg.

Mwah ha ha ha ha..... ha ha.... bwahahahahahaha!

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :p

Thank you muchly for all that Lal, you certainly were a verbose duo!

By the way -- both times I mentioned the "secret" I did it in conjunction with announcing the roles -- once in poem form and once in "plain English." That was a hint as to the nature of the "secret," that it had to do with the roles. Also, since I was not revealing roles upon death, I thought that would point to the fact that I had something to hide about the roles. Kind of obtuse hinting, but it was there.

[Mithalwen]

Argh. I must have been the most catastrophic Hunter in history...

...

Fea, I think beat you that WWJ game when she killed the Seer .... and your bold bluff saved my feathers for another night so kudos

I don't think I can improve on "Kafkaesque nightmare" from my own experience of the early days at least I really started to doubt my own sanity - and I can't believe Saucie thought me a duck at all... especially given my voting. It was my best voting record since WW1 - 2 ducks and 2 reasonable (though wrong ) picks...not bad considering I had to vote so early.

Even though I didn't know I could trust him at that point, Mormegil's accurate character assessment was a comfort. It was a bit shattering to realise that just about everyone thought that my being irrational/deranged/pathological liar was a more plausible explanation than my telling the truth . If I play again I shall try to avoid such a stressful RL time and make sure I am filled to the gills on Evening Primrose Oil :rolleyes: ... In many ways it was a brilliant game - just not an ideal one for an anxiety sufferer ..... Ah well, I might well be paranoid but you were out to get me!!!

[JennyHallu]

Honestly, when I'm a wolf/orc/duck, the first thing I make sure stays fairly good is my voting record. As a werecreature, I have the knowledge to make sure my voting record is good...

And I don't think an innocent should ever make a vote they feel is unreasonable...

[Kath]

Hehe, all you need is Sauce on your side! My voting record this game was appalling, yet he turned it round so it looked innocent :D

[Lalaith]

It was a bit shattering to realise that just about everyone thought that my being irrational/deranged/pathological liar was a more plausible explanation than my telling the truth

No! You underestimate yourself, and our opinion of you. I for one was concerned that you were just being unbelievably cunning, making a brilliant show of being stressed and nervy in order to fox us all....

[JennyHallu]

Lalaith hit it exactly...

I did think you were the goose...but I thought it was an absolutely brilliant strategy, and envied you the cunning necessary to throw so many up against eachother. And then after I was dead, Glirdy revealed his Seerishness to me in a PM...so I thought I had proof that you were a Goose and was even more impressed.

[Mithalwen]

making a brilliant show of being stressed and nervy in order to fox us all....


Stressed and nervy is my default setting so I thought I was being quite natural! And do you think I would have admitted to the worlds dullest occupation if hadn't been telling the truth!!!! You know of all jobs, accountants avoid telling people what they do for a living for the longest? That is a statistical fact. There is only one accountancy joke too....

[Kath]

There is only one accountancy joke too....
You have to tell us what it is now! :D

[Mithalwen]

Well you may have to be in the trade to find it funny:

Q What's 2+2?

A What do you want it to be?

[Roa_Aoife]

Q What's 2+2?

A What do you want it to be?

*dies of laughter*

Really, Mith, I found your nervousness odd, because every other game I've played with you, you've been the voice of reason. You're panic and over-reaction was amazingly different than what I've seen from you before. I guess this game just had poor luck in the timing category for everyone. *hugs*

[Mithalwen]

I felt ratty rather than nervy at the time- PMT can be mitigation for murder you know!! and given my extremely limited net time I was rather annoyed (knowing that I was innocent) that the best thing our "great minds" found do was count my punctuation. They had said they wanted to seriously catch ducks and seemed to be rearranging the proverbial deckchairs. Of course that made them look suspicious to me but of course the more I tried to fight back the worse I looked :rolleyes:

Roa, bear in mind you had played with me as a rather gormless innocent (who Anguirel found useful to keep alive a little too long! ) and a very fatalistic wolf. Remember our PMs when I said that I would be grateful not to be lynched Day one again? I was so relieved to do that that everything else was a bonus. I think giftedness does make you play slightly differently - you are looking for your target for dreaming/ protection perhaps more than the werebeast. It was very like being Draugluin and I blew a fuse then too :o

[Kath]

Haha! That was actually pretty funny Mith.

Roa, Mith tends to get stressy when she's a Gifted (cheers for that clue Mith :p ) because she has to keep it hidden yet not get killed at the same time and it seems to make her panic. I can see why I must admit! The one time I was Seer I think I reacted the same way and ended up dead by Day 3.

But don't worry Mith, we love you really! It's just during the game we want to kill you :D

[Mithalwen]

er thanks I think ....

But you are right, if you are gifted you have to try to be involved and constructive enough in the debate not to get lynched without making yourself a prime target for the night's kill. If you succeed at that you then look as if you are "flying under the radar" which of course is the default suspicion mode round about day 3 if the villagers have had no luck with the more evident suspects.

Should you last any longer, and have a "reputation" then you will be found suspicious because you aren't dead. All the time you are thinking about the best use of your gifts and the slightly different perspective does make you seem different. For example when Saucey said I had backtracked in my attack on him, I had simply at that moment decided to vote for Spawn and find out about SpM in my dream.

It is not surprising that gifteds rarely survive the games.

[Kath]

It was a compliment Mith I promise.