Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread

[Folwren]

I have asked Gwathagor to play the character of Jord and he has accepted the role. I asked him to post here and as soon as possible, to post to the game thread. I think he'll be reporting soon, therefore. :)

Might we possibly be willing to wait and let him take some part in this occurance? :)

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

I indicated that Khandr was going to the great hall to snoop unless someone objected. (See my earlier post on this discussion thread dated 12/12.) No one responded to the contrary so I am going ahead with that. As to whether or not Khandr is killed there, that has not been determined. Originally, at the beginning of the rpg, I had Jord lined up to do in my character. However, since Durelin is not here, that poses a problem.

I am open to new ideas, or should we just use Jord for the killer and have someone post for her? I do not mind if Khandr is killed when he goes to the palace or sometime later.

Regarding the planning.....I don't want to hammer down every nail. However, since we're not even sure who is going to kill my character, or who will post that scene, I think we may want to establish at least that much. Then whoever is doing the posting for the murder is free to kill my character whenever they think best. I will continue to write for him until someone topples him over dead. The alternative would be for me to post the killing by using Jord, but I think it is more interesting if another writer does this, either using Jord or in their own personna.

Will the potential murderer please let me know, either on this thread or by pm? ;) If I get a volunteer by pm, I'll let people know on this thread (though not the name of the actual writer.)

BIG EDIT: Folwren and I doubleposted. Waiting for our new writer sounds fine to me. However, I will go ahead and continue to the palace after Thorn replies, unless someone does me in before then.

[piosenniel]

Please note I have changed the player listed for Jord/Thuringwethil to Gwathagor - HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491522&postcount=11).

-----

Gwathagor

If you wish to tweak any of Durelin's Character Bio for Jord, just place your revisions on this thread and I will insert them where needed.

Thanks for joining the game!!

~*~ Pio

[littlemanpoet]

Gwathagor, welcome!

I'm preparing a post for Thorn.

I mean for Thorn and Jord to have a confrontation at some point. I had expected it to precede Khandr's murder, but that now looks unlikely. No matter. It can occur after the murder, which would make it an interesting exchange in its own way.

Let me know, Gwathagor, when you're ready for such a confronation.

EDIT: post is up and very short since it's just one part of a conversation.

[Gwathagor]

Hey everyone...I've read all the posts involving Jord, and many of the others, especially those involving the Ul- bros and Lachrandir. So I'll try to just jump in and start treading water; we'll see how I do. I am not, however, up to date on discussion thread posts, so please fill me in. I'm particularly interested in how I ought to relate to other characters, or if there is anything expected of my character, like knocking off Khandr, or other things I might not know if I hadn't read all the proper discussion thread posts.

I'd love advice from the game owners and the posters.

[Folwren]

Wonderful, Gwathagor. I'm so glad you agreed to take on this role.

What's happening at present in the game is as follows.

In the morning of this day, Uldor and his brothers and those of their household that were invited (different lords and servants and stuff, I guess) along with Lachrandir and his squire fellow saddled up and prepared for a hunt. They were invited by Khandr. When they arrived, and before they set off, Thorn, a new character to the story, arrived and told Khandr that he was going to be murdured that day. He also told him that Uldor was trecherous.

Khandr, suddenly rather disoriented, headed off towards home to arrange his affairs and try to get stuff figured out before he was killed. He sent word to Uldor and Co. to go ahead, and so they have.

Uldor, suspecting something, sent someone after Thorn, but the messenger person was waylaid and knocked out and so Uldor doesn't know what Thorn said.

Jord, your character, is supposed to, according to original plans, kill Khandr. However, this plan has changed a couple times since Durelin and I'm not entirely sure what's been decided. If you decide that you want Jord to kill Khandr, say so, and the thing will be settled. :D

For now, I think that's all that's going on. If I think of anything else that you need to know, I'll tell you... And if you have any other questions, jsut ask and someone will be sure to answer to the best of their ability.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

I'd love to kill Khandr.

Did Jord and Uldor plan the killing, or is Jord acting on her own still?

[Gwathagor]

LMP: So how 'bout this confrontation with Thorn? I'm ready, just give the word.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Gwathagor,

I'd love to kill Khandr.

Ah....that's what I like to hear. An able bodied character willing to do away with Khandr. :D Originally, Durelin and I had talked about some kind of confrontation between Jord and Khandr and then Jord acting on her own. However, all that is open to change. So let me know what you prefer or just spring it on me in the storyline...however you want to handle it.

Khandr is on the way to the palace to snoop around. However, I'll make sure and finish off Khandr's post with Thorn now so LMP will be free to go anywhere that you two desire.

Welcome to the game!

[Noinkling]

Pio

I've set the scene up as best I could. Bring on Fálki.

Maybe Dag should show up sometime; what do you think?

[Folwren]

I have nothing to do with this murder...and therefore, most likely, neither does Uldor. But he does stuff behind my back sometimes, the villain....

So, just say that it's Jord acting on her own.

[littlemanpoet]

LMP: So how 'bout this confrontation with Thorn? I'm ready, just give the word.
The plot seems to be calling for Khandr to meet up with Jord no matter what Thorn might do. Khandr has left Khandr's homestead and is going directly to the palace. Jord has left the palace and is going directly to Khandr's holding. These two bee-lines look too direct for Thorn to reach Jord first; he may have special knowledge, but he is only human.

Noinkling! Great to have you back! I've been reading your posts with great respect, and now there's more to enjoy. :)

[Gwathagor]

Gwathagor,



Ah....that's what I like to hear. An able bodied character willing to do away with Khandr. :D Originally, Durelin and I had talked about some kind of confrontation between Jord and Khandr and then Jord acting on her own. However, all that is open to change. So let me know what you prefer or just spring it on me in the storyline...however you want to handle it.

Khandr is on the way to the palace to snoop around. However, I'll make sure and finish off Khandr's post with Thorn now so LMP will be free to go anywhere that you two desire.

Welcome to the game!

I like the idea of some kind of confrontation between Jord and Khandr, so: Jord will knife Khandr, and then they can have a sort of a metaphysical/dream confrontation while Khandr hovers between the living and the dead (ala Assassin's Creed).

How does that strike you?

[piosenniel]

Noinkling

I've put up a SAVE and will try to get to it later. Work calls :rolleyes:

~*~ Pio

[littlemanpoet]

I like the idea of some kind of confrontation between Jord and Khandr, so: Jord will knife Khandr, and then they can have a sort of a metaphysical/dream confrontation while Khandr hovers between the living and the dead (ala Assassin's Creed).

How does that strike you?I don't know..... doesn't sound particularly Middle Earthish, but I suppose it may be in how it's done. I don't know Assassin's Creed.

[Gwathagor]

Well, I suppose we COULD be conventional...

[Child of the 7th Age]

Gwathagor,

"Assassin's Creed"? Hmm.

Sorry for my denseness. I need some help here. I'm very familiar with the historical Assassins, hired Shi'ite killers of the middle ages who allied with Saladin during the Crusades. I've also heard of the recent videogame Assassin's Creed, which features an imaginery assassin, but I've never played it. I'm not sure how either of these relate to hovering between life and death.

I'm also not sure about a post-death metaphysical/dream struggle in the context of Tolkien. The author is so adament about no one knowing where men go when they leave the circles of the world. I suppose there's the possibility of some dead souls hanging on within Arda like the men of Dunharrow in LotR, or the houseless Elves. But again I'm not sure how this would relate to Khandr. You need to convince me that this is believable within the context of Middle-earth before we start to post. I have no problem with unconventional, but it needs to fit loosely within the context of Tolkien. If you can explain in those terms, I'm more than willing to have Khandr adapt.

[Gwathagor]

In Assassin's Creed, after you assassinate your target, there is a short cut scene depicting a conversation between you (the assassin) and the victim. This conversation does not take place in the physical world, though. It's as though they converse in a kind of limbo/spirit world, as the dead man's spirit is still hovering over his body, having not yet departed for the realm of the dead.

If it were any other character, I would agree that this wouldn't fit Middle-earth at all. However, Jord IS a Maia (and a vampire), and so I think we could get away with her talking to dead people.

But, it's just a suggestion.

[Folwren]

Depending on what you have in mind, Gwathagor, you could have the discussion before he dies. :)

[Gwathagor]

Sure.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks Gwathagor for making that clearer, also Folwren with her idea. How about this? We could use Tolkien's concept of Ósanwe and have the exchange of thoughts take place as Khandr lies dying.... fëa to fëa so to speak. I could envision such an exchange between a Maia and a human. Frodo certainly picked up vibes from Gandalf.

I am still a bit uncertain exactly what that exchange of thoughts would be. Khandr is a decent man but I don't think he could mentally challenge a Maia in any way. I suppose that Jord could reveal to him the full extent of the treason that will be taking place on the battlefield. That would certainly depress him! What general direction do you see this exchange going? Feel free to reply on the thread or send me a pm if you want to get into details.

[Gwathagor]

That's exactly what I had in mind. Because she's mean and cruel and more than a bit self-satisfied, Jord can give Khandr a vision of what is to come, with the intent that he dies despairing. Maybe we can think of some last glimmer of hope, something positive, for Khandr to grasp as he dies, so that Jord's present victory is not absolute. What do you think?

[littlemanpoet]

Now this is intriguing! And Thorn would have a bit more into this than what I had been thinking, as he is a listener to the Song. His "second hearing" (rather than "second sight") would give him some percipience into this, which could lead right into his own confrontation with Jord. Thoughts?

[Gwathagor]

That sounds great.

It would give Thorn a pretty clear idea of Jord's/Morgoth's plans for the Easterlings (they are Easterlings, aren't they?), and would therefore have to speed the choosing of sides and the actual betrayal considerably. Jord would realize that if Thorn knows, he's probably going to tell the good guys (Lachrandir in particular). Is that an accurate assessment?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Would this work?

As Khandr lies dying, overwhelmed by the grim news that Jord has conveyed to him, he desperately reaches out for another fea to pass on what he has learned. He can do no more than briefly feel a hint of Thorn's mind and then immediately dies. But this would set up the scene for a confrontation of some sort...whatever sort you want....between Thorn and Jord.

It might also make sense that, since Thorn already knows that Khandr is in deep trouble, he might actually be making an attempt to "read" the latter from a distance and would therefore respond more readily when the old Borrim diplomat reaches out for help.

[Folwren]

If Jord finds out about Thorn and knows that he is knows somewhat about the future and knows about the treachery, is she not going to want to do something about it? She doesn't want Lachrandir to ever learn about it. And, I don't believe that according to the history, Lachrandir can learn about it. The men's treachery was not known to the elves until their moment in the battle.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Folwren,

A valid question that also crossed my mind: how are we going to make this come one with the same ending as Tolkien did? Littlemanpoet definitely needs to weigh in on this.

I suppose there is more than one way to handle this. A few spring to mind. One possibility is that Jord is able to shield all or part of the information from Thorn so that he only suspects what might be going on and must find out more to be able to persuade anyone, which he somehow fails to do. Another possibility is that Thorn tries to warn Lachrandir but, for whatever reason, the Elf turns a deaf ear so that it never goes beyond the two. (Or is this stretching the storyline too far?) There is also the possibility that Thorn does learn exactly what is going on, but somehow does not live long enough to make use of his information. :eek:

Perhaps Littlemanpoet has additional ideas, or has already thought this through.

[Folwren]

I doubt Lachrandir will turn a deaf ear. He already dislikes the Ulfings.

There is also the possibility that Thorn does learn exactly what is going on, but somehow does not live long enough to make use of his information. :eek:

I think we could arrange that. ;)

In all seriousness - Elempi, what are your thoughts?

[littlemanpoet]

Lachrandir? A good guy? Never thought of him that way myself..... ;)

Here's how I see things possibly unfolding.

Option 1:

Thorn knows a confrontation is about to take place and is waiting for Jord to reveal herself as Morgoth's rather powerful pawn. Therefore he is listening to the Song and through it hears Khandr's final plea, and somehow manages to give him peace though not necessarily hope. Because this happens within the harmonies of the Song, Jord cannot perceive it and doesn't know who Thorn is but that someone has intervened.

Lachrandir doesn't trust the Ulfings, true; Thorn is an Ulfing; why would Lachrandir listen to him any more than the others? So Thorn could attempt to tell him and be rebuffed.

If Thorn maintains his distance from Jord - for now - he can tell Lachrandir and be rebuffed - which he expects anyway and which is why he spoke first to Khandr.

Option 2:

Thorn intervenes between Jord and Khandr, gives Khandr enough knowledge of the Song to give him peace in death, and then is killed by Jord. Plain and simple.

Option 1 seems more interesting to me than Option 2, and Option 1 has the added mystique of Jord not necessarily knowing that Thorn knows; which would make their confrontation later a lot more interesting too.

Does this seem workable?

[Gwathagor]

If Jord finds out about Thorn and knows that he is knows somewhat about the future and knows about the treachery, is she not going to want to do something about it? She doesn't want Lachrandir to ever learn about it. And, I don't believe that according to the history, Lachrandir can learn about it. The men's treachery was not known to the elves until their moment in the battle.

So maybe we just KILL everybody...

[Gwathagor]

Lachrandir doesn't trust the Ulfings, true; Thorn is an Ulfing; why would Lachrandir listen to him any more than the others? So Thorn could attempt to tell him and be rebuffed.

Option 1 seems more interesting to me than Option 2, and Option 1 has the added mystique of Jord not necessarily knowing that Thorn knows; which would make their confrontation later a lot more interesting too.

I like this!

[Lalaith]

Ang and I had originally worked out that Embla would take a kind of Cassandra role, that she would try to warn Lachrandir but he would be too haughty to listen to her or understand her properly.

However, it obviously would be stupid/unlikely for both Thorn AND Embla to try to warn the elves and for them to refuse to listen to either of them.

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...

[Folwren]

Well...It scarcely seems good to cut you out of something that was planned originally.

I just thought that it might be dangerous for Thorn to even try to contact Lachrandir at all, wanted as he is by Uldor. And yet...I, like Gwathagor, liked Elempi's idea.

Perhaps, Lalaith, Embla might attempt it and not get to Lachrandir. She coudl tell Tathren, or try to, anyway... I don't know. :confused:

[Nogrod]

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...Well she might go skulking somewhere with Fastarr... :)

I was indeed thinking about a post which would lead the two to Khandr's residence and meet Thorn there - and possibly Briga if she hasn't left already (there hasn't been a long time).

But do you wish for Thorn to leave first so that Fastarr and Embla try themselves or should they meet the old man (and / or Briga) first?

PS. Sorry. I've had some hectic days and will have until the weekend is over but I'll try to keep up.

[littlemanpoet]

Ang and I had originally worked out that Embla would take a kind of Cassandra role, that she would try to warn Lachrandir but he would be too haughty to listen to her or understand her properly.

However, it obviously would be stupid/unlikely for both Thorn AND Embla to try to warn the elves and for them to refuse to listen to either of them.

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...On the contrary, I rather like the idea that Lachrandir gets not one but two chances, and blows it both times. :D

Noggie and Lalaith, if is seems all right to you, how about Fastarr and Embla attempt to talk to Lachrandir first, and then after Thorn has also tried and failed to convince the arrogant Elf, they meet and talk?

[Gwathagor]

Yes, I really like the Embla=Cassandra concept.

[piosenniel]

Noinkling

I've filled in my SAVE. Take it and run with it! :p

~*~ Pio

[Noinkling]

Thanks, Pio!

Will see what I can do. :)

[Nogrod]

Noggie and Lalaith, if is seems all right to you, how about Fastarr and Embla attempt to talk to Lachrandir first, and then after Thorn has also tried and failed to convince the arrogant Elf, they meet and talk?Suits me fine.

I'll try to post tomorrow:
- Embla and Fastarr come to Khandr's place and find him gone.
- Fastarr suggests they find Thorn but Embla calls for an immediate attempt to find Lachrandir.
- They go to search the elf.

I could write them as far as finding him but I can also leave to them leaving Khandr's residence.

Embla surely would be the one to address the elf.

Is that okay with Lalaith and lmp?


PS: Where should they find the elves? Any ideas where Lachrandir is right now?

[Lalaith]

Nogrod, I think you should certainly get those two somewhere, so by all means, take them to the elf!

Ok, so now we talk to the elf before we find Khandr dead....that would kind of work actually, because if we come to Lachrandir with a dead body, then clearly that's hard evidence he should listen to, while at the moment it's just speculation and Embla's visions, and its easier for him to dismiss us.
Or maybe we should talk to Mith's little chap, I'm sure she won't mind.
Whatever, you decide.

What will happen, btw, when we do find the body? Should we in fact find the body?

[littlemanpoet]

Lachrandir will be found with Uldor and Ulfast on the hunt; and being with them is finally becoming respectful of their prowess. So he'll have to be hunted for on the hunt. ;)

I think the body should be found. Would Jord/Thruingwethil want to hide it?

[Gwathagor]

By no means! Jord wants to breed as much suspicion and division as she can. Hopefully, lots of characters would be suspect.

I think I'll just kill him now, if it's alright with everyone.

[Gwathagor]

I've done it! He's dead! Or nearly...

I hope I haven't attributed too many attitudes and feelings to Khandr, Child of the 7th Age? I'll edit it if you need me to.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks Gwathagor.

Therefore he is listening to the Song and through it hears Khandr's final plea, and somehow manages to give him peace though not necessarily hope. Because this happens within the harmonies of the Song, Jord cannot perceive it and doesn't know who Thorn is but that someone has intervened.

Littlemanpoet -- Are we still going ahead with this? Shall I post something where Khandr tries to reach out at the instant before death and then you can post?

[Gwathagor]

Ha ha. :p Thorn feels a disturbance in the Force!

[littlemanpoet]

You can post if you like, Child. I felt so inspired by Gwath's post that I actually wrote one and was almost finished when my computer time at work ran out and I lost the whole thing! :( But it's still tucked away in my memory, so I'll be able to reproduce it. But I can wait.

[Gwathagor]

That's very sad.

[Nogrod]

As Embla and Fastarr were last left heading towards Khandr's residence I had to use some imagination to twist them from that route to go for the elves instead. I hope my choice is okay with you Lalaith. I was kind of running low with better ideas.

And Lalaith, as usual please inform me if I have represented Embla the wrong way and I will change whatever you wish.

People in the hunt! Feel free to crush on these two who are rambling through the forest if you wish... especially Ulfings and elves... Just be aware that Fastarr is short-tempered, not loving the Ulfings and now he feels both love and a duty to protect Embla... :rolleyes:

[Lalaith]

It's all cool, Noggie.

If anyone wants to meet us, that's also cool. If not, I'd better push the couple on at some point soon, in which case we need to meet Lachrandir, where is he right now?

[littlemanpoet]

we need to meet Lachrandir, where is he right now?Wherever you decide to find him - - on the hunt, not far from the "Ul----" brothers and Tathren.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Save filled. Thorn, your turn. At least I managed to mess up Jord's skirt!

[littlemanpoet]

Save filled. Ouch, that was hard. :p

[Folwren]

Yes, it didn't look easy. It would have been impossible for me. I can't write verse. Good job. :)

My save is filled as well.

[Gwathagor]

What needs to happen now? Who is going to find Khandr's body?

[Folwren]

I am not sure what is happening next. Someone in the hunt could post... Someone could find Khandr's body, but I don't know who is going to do that - I believe Lalaith's and Nogrod's character are on their way to find Lachrandir, so they're not available. Unless Thorn finds him.

[Lalaith]

Well we could find Khandr after going to Lachrandir. I suppose.
Am I on next btw?

[Folwren]

Am I on next btw?

If you wish to be. :)

[littlemanpoet]

I am not sure what is happening next. Someone in the hunt could post... Someone could find Khandr's body, but I don't know who is going to do that - I believe Lalaith's and Nogrod's character are on their way to find Lachrandir, so they're not available. Unless Thorn finds him.

Thorn is moving away from Khandr's body. He will not find it.

[Nogrod]

How about Briga finding him? Wasn't Khandr killed quite near his residence?

Am I on next btw?
Lalaith please do not hesitate making the two find the elves or at least the Ulfings... I wouldn't like to post two times in a row for them.

[Nogrod]

If you Lalaith are not going to make the two meet some hunters pretty soon (I've been waiting for quite a month now) - or if you Ulfings will not post to see the two of us I'll make a post about which I will will not take responsibility of... But let's say I will kill at leat one of the central characters which according to the rules are dispendable (not written by anyone in X weeks) and will not hesitate to do that to someone else as well.

Now where are you?

How drastic post do I need to make before you continue?

[Folwren]

Nogrod, you are superb. I'd love to see a main character killed off....to a certain extent - if only becasue I'd never seen it done before. lol!

Okay, seriously...Elempi said he was going to post for Ulfast a few days ago. That would be more than nice. I'd love a reaction from my last post.

I am considering what to do with Ulwarth. Unfortunately, my characters are close together, so I can't really write all that much without cutting out other players.

But, yes, as Nogrod said, we do need to be getting on.

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks for the kick in the rear, Noggie. :) It's way too late and I'm out of gas for this day (which actually ended 30 minutes ago) :rolleyes: I'll post to this rpg tomorrow.

[Nogrod]

There are different ways of kick-starting things indeed... :D

[Lalaith]

Oh I do like a forceful man!

Sorry, I have been incredibly busy. I will post something this weekend. It probably won't be very good, but it will get us (F and E) to the elves.

[Folwren]

Elempi, I think you made a typo or sommit...

And you!" he said, turning to Ulfast. "Next time you act like my near death is a sideshow for you, I'll put a mark on you where you'll remember it!"

What did you mean really?

[littlemanpoet]

Elempi, I think you made a typo or sommit...What did you mean really?NO kidding, Elempi, what did you really mean? :p Ah, Ulwarth, actually. I'll go change it. (Elempi slaps himself on the forehead and tips over) CRASH!!!!! (oops)

[Folwren]

NO kidding, Elempi, what did you really mean? :p Ah, Ulwarth, actually. I'll go change it. (Elempi slaps himself on the forehead and tips over) CRASH!!!!! (oops)

*Folwren tiptoes around the table to look down at him.* Are you entirely well, old chap?

Good! If it's Ulwarth, I should have something interesting to write. :)

[littlemanpoet]

*Folwren tiptoes around the table to look down at him.* Are you entirely well, old chap?Elempi lifts his head and looks up at Foley. "Oh, I'm fine. Just you go knock yourself out writing a post (after a manner of speaking). :p

Good! If it's Ulwarth, I should have something interesting to write. :)I eagerly awayt. ;) (yes I know the spelling's wrong but I like it somehow)

[Folwren]

Knock myself out? No thanks. I see what that can do to a person. ;)

I'll write a post tomorrow morning if I don't get 'round to it tonight after the movie. Mom and Pop went out to watch the Super Bowl, so my younger siblings and I are going to eat pizza and watch Star Wars III. Harrah!

[Lalaith]

Right, I've got to rewrite my post a bit as we've already been brought almost to the presence of the elf 'imself. Back tomorrow...

[littlemanpoet]

Lalaith, I can edit if it helps you. It's not like my stuff's granite and can't be changed.

[Folwren]

I should tell everyone that I'm going to be gone from Sunday the 10 to Sunday the 17, that's all week next week. Carry my charaters if necessarily.

[Lalaith]

That´s kind of you to offer elempi but not necessary, its much better that you moved the story on as you did.

[Lalaith]

Abject apologies for the appallingly tardy post.
It's up now, and if it's any consolation, I'm around most of this week. I can therefore be slightly less crap than I have been, in moving the story along, if anyone else is around too.

[Nogrod]

Good to see this thing moving forwards Lalaith!

I made a short post as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Ulfing lords are indeed around and thence the situation is quite awkward for Embla and Fastarr... If I'm mistaken I will edit my post accordingly.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow! What a position of power Lachrandir finds himself in! I shall post up shortly. Which way to go? Which way to go?......

[Finduilas]

Posting for Folwren: I really wont be getting back till Tuesday, so continue carrying my character if necessary.

At least, that is what I assume Folwren would write, if she were here...

[Child of the 7th Age]

I am not sure what is happening next. Someone in the hunt could post... Someone could find Khandr's body, but I don't know who is going to do that - I believe Lalaith's and Nogrod's character are on their way to find Lachrandir, so they're not available. Unless Thorn finds him.

How about Briga finding him? Wasn't Khandr killed quite near his residence?

Yes, I would like for Briga to find poor Khandr. She would, of course, arrange to have his body brought back to the house. Additionally, since she fears for her own life and that of the other Borrim, Briga would surely hope to convey the news to Nogrod rather than to those engaged in the hunt. Is there some way she could come barging into your dinner party conveying this information? Of course, we wouldn't want to do this until your own affairs and conversation are sufficiently wrapped up.

Would this work?

If so, I will put up a post where she finds his body and has it brought back to the house but will wait to come barging in to the dinner party.

[Nogrod]

Additionally, since she fears for her own life and that of the other Borrim, Briga would surely hope to convey the news to Nogrod rather than to those engaged in the hunt. Is there some way she could come barging into your dinner party conveying this information?You won't find me or my character Fastarr from the dinner party at Dag's house... :D

But more seriously she might take the servants Hugo and Grogr with her I suppose - or at least make sure they take care of the body or something? Well, depending on how she wishes to act to be sure...

[Lalaith]

Depending on how things go with Lachrandir and the Ulflings, Embla and Fastarr might want to find out what happened to Khandr, or they might in fact need to clear the hell out.

[Folwren]

Hi! I've returned. Thanks, Fin, for letting people know when I'd be back.

Lalaith may be right - clearing out pretty quick might be a good idea. I was thinking while reading the posts that it might not be a good idea for Uldor or any of his brothers to hear. On the other hand, it makes it very interestig if they do hear, but it puts Nogrod's and Lalaith's characters into a lot of danger, methinks.

I've no idea when I'll get around to posting.

-- Folwren

[Lalaith]

Noggie, do you want us to go with Lachrandir, and which of us should post?

[Nogrod]

Noggie, do you want us to go with Lachrandir, and which of us should post?I think that would be reasonable - that they go with him I mean. If you have time please do post as I'm not able to do it in a few days time anyway.

[littlemanpoet]

Here's the idea. Because Lachrandir can do osanwë, he is going to believe Nogrod's and Lalaith's characters. Then when Thorn comes and tells him the same thing, only with more details, namely about Jord/Thuringwethil and her ties to Morgoth Bauglir, well the jig is up, isn't it? We can't have Lachrandir go back and tell Caranthir the wrong thing, now, can we? So instead, Jord/Thuringwethil realizes that something did not go as she wished since Khandr did not die in complete despair; she knows some intervention occurred, but she does not know what or how or where from. Can she still turn herself into some other creature, like a bat? If so, this will be easier. She turns herself, and flies back toward Khandr's lodgings, and senses the flight of Fastarr and Embla, and gives chase. She bypasses Uldor and brother, and reaches Lachrandir, Fastarr and Embla, and finds Thorn with them, telling Lachrandir everything, and he believes. Jord must therefore fix things. She wrests Fastarr's sword, murders Lachrandir and Thorn, and shoos the two humans away, setting up the frame. She then meets up with Uldor and Ulfast separately (each unaware of the other) and they both find the bodies and Fastarr's sword, and they accuse the Borrim of treachery and murder. That leaves it to Tathren to return to Caranthir with the news of Lachrandir's death, the treachery of the Borrim, and the resolute loyaly of the Ulfings.

What do you think?

Okay, you're probably wondering why I want to kill off both of my characters. It's because I'm going to leave the Barrowdowns; not because of anything wrong, it's just time. But I want to see all of my commitments through, including this one. Let me know.

[Gwathagor]

I am content. As long as I get to kill people. :)

[Folwren]

It makes sense. I wanted Uldor to kill him, but I guess he can't, if he wants to try to frame somebody else. Bummer. He has perfect reason to, now.

No, no, it looks good, Elempi. *sigh* If it's absolutely necessary. Can you write Tathren all the way out of the city?

Once Lachrandir is gone and the Borrim have separated from the Ulfings, we should travel on swiftly to the battle and end it. Hopefully before June...before my schedule goes whacko and I cease to be around so much during camp.

Now, I believe hte Borrim were supposed to still fight on the elves and men's side? If Tathren goes bearing tales of treachery, will that allow the history to remain in tact? I can't look anything up tonight, so this'll take a little bit of research, but we should be able to twist somethings to make it work out.

[littlemanpoet]

That shouldn't be so hard, Foley. Fastarr and Embla can flee to some other Elven group beside Caranthir. With what Elven group did the Borrim fight?

[Folwren]

I thought this morning that Uldor could still have Thorn killed. If Thorn comes to Lachrandir, it's not absolutely out of the question that he could be caught by one of Brodda's or Uldor's henchmen. Then he could be brought to Uldor, as Uldor wished earlier, and from there, things would progress quickly and end, undoubtedly, in Thorn's termination. :eek:

Can we do that? Thuringwethil can have Lachrandir (presumabely, she doesn't know about Thorn), and Uldor, suspecting Thorn from when he first contacted Khandir, can deal with that old man.

[littlemanpoet]

Makes sense to me. :)

[Folwren]

And you grin about it. Oh! The morbidness of all this is almost scary. (Is morbidness even a word? I doubt it.)

[littlemanpoet]

I believe "morbidity" is the more common rendering. This is a smile-> :) This is a grin-> :D My smile was intended to reflect my willingness to cooperate. ;)

[Lalaith]

Elempi, I'm sorry to hear you're going.

As for what the Borrim should do...historically, as it were, the sons of Bor (Borlad, Borlach and Borthand) followed Maedhros and Maglor, while the Ulflings marched with Caranthir.
It is important, canonically, that no elf that marches to the Nirnaeth should have any inkling as to the treachery of the Easterlings. So I suggest the following:
a. Fastarr and Embla, who know the truth, do not go back to the Borrim. I think they should be thoroughly terrified by the whole affair, and go perhaps to Embla's people.
b. The rest of the Borrim - Briga and co - would also bring troubled tidings, so perhaps they do not get back in time; the sons of Bor have already left with Maedhros and Maglor when they return?
c. Tathren - if he tells Caranthir of alleged Borrim treachery, why do the Borrim still march with Maedhros and co? Communication issues between the brethren?

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks, Lalaith. :) I would love to stay, but I must not; I have had so much fun here. :)

Good questions.

a. I think you're right. Fastarr and Embla go their own way.

b. Again, good solution.

c. Caranthir could be construed as too haughty to bother to send word to Maedhros and Maglor? Or word could get to M & M too late?

[Gwathagor]

Caranthir could descend upon the village in wrath at the end of the story, learn the truth of the treachery, vindicate the Borrim, deal with Jord, and generally exact justice. Jord might escape by turning vampire and flying away, but I'd rather she got hers, so to speak. It would make me feel better about writing such an awful creature. :cool:

[Durelin]

*slinks in and cries for Jord's poor misunderstood soul*

[Folwren]

*slinks in and cries for Jord's poor misunderstood soul*

Oh! Likely! ;)

I would have loved it if you could have stayed and played her, and I do understand if you are feeling sorry that she didn't turn out how you had originally planned...but I highly doubt she's any less evil than you had intended.

Gwathagor, I think that your idea is rather impossible. Caranthir can not come back and get the truth, for he must, according to the history, ride into battle believing that he is totally and completely backed up by the Ulfings. Unfortunately, Jord probably isn't going to get her just desserts in this game. :(

Lailath, your ideas make sense, but the only thing I don't like is the fact that if Fastarr and Embla leave, you and Nogrod wouldn't be in the game so much. Am I wrong? Would you still be able to play?

What would happen if Tathren were killed as well as Lachrandir and no ambassadors were sent back, but the army showed up to join in with Caranthir's army instead? I don't know what that would mean, politically and all, so if anyone knows better, do tell.

And I really have no idea what the Borrim are to do.

[Durelin]

I would have loved it if you could have stayed and played her, and I do understand if you are feeling sorry that she didn't turn out how you had originally planned...but I highly doubt she's any less evil than you had intended.

Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant at all! Lord, Gwathagor has done such a beautiful job with Jord! I could never have done Khandr's murder so...gorgeously. I just would hate to see the Woman of the Secret Shadow perish. ;) And the 'misunderstood' was just a joke about her not really being evil... :p

[littlemanpoet]

We need someone besides me to post next. Who will it be?

I think the Sil has the ambassadorship to the Ulfings reporting back to to Caranthir, so if Lachrandir does not survive, Tathren must.

Fastarr and Embla can continue to write their adventures (ahem love story) as long as the thread continues. Who knows where it might take them? ;)

[Folwren]

I will write a post just as soon as I have both time and inspiration on my hands. That being said, the earliest time that I'll have time is Saturday...but that will be after a very, very, very busy week and my inspiration as well as creativity may be at a very, very low ebb. So.....Sunday evening? Monday morning?

What I mean to say is, I don't know when I'll be able to post. So if anyone arrives to post before I do, go ahead and do it. As of now, I believe that Lailath or Nogrod, or even Gwathagor, or Pio or Noinkling, if their about, can post..... Even Elempi could post for Thorn, possibly.

Dury, I grasped your joke at the very outset, I just wasn't sure if I'd interpretted it correctly. :) (Dumb internet...;))

[Lalaith]

I think its my turn in the Lachrandir/Fastarr and Embla scenario, and will post soon.

As for leaving, well I think the game is reaching the final throes anyway, is it not? The tribe has been turned, yes?
(I'm sorry, but due to time constraints I haven't been following the story strands so closely that don't pertain to my character...)

Anyway, Embla and Fastarr need not leave immediately....perhaps Embla and Briga could have some sort of reconciliation, at least...Child, do you think that would be ok?

[Folwren]

Tell me if I've jumped the gun somewhat.

[Gwathagor]

Do I need to kill Lachrandir? :) Feel free to give me directions.

[Folwren]

Do I need to kill Lachrandir? :) Feel free to give me directions.

Not yet. There has yet to be quite a bit of talk between Embla, Fastarr, and Lachrandir.

[littlemanpoet]

Also, I'm looking forward to Thorn being forcibly brought to the Ulfing lords before whom he will demand to see Lachrandir. They'll insist he tell them why, which he knows is suicide, but will do so anyway, every last bitter bit of truth, which will of course raise the stakes of competition between the brothers, for each will suddenly realize just how ambitious and ruthless his siblings is in regard to himself. At least, that seems like a pretty cool scenario to me.

And THEN they can kill him.

[Folwren]

Elempi,

I was definitely planning on a confrontation between the Ulfing brothers and Thorn. However, I was not thinking that it would happen at the hunt - there being so many people about.

How does Uldor and his brothers convince the entire following of Ulfings to change sides - from the elves to Morgoth? Just wondering...I hadven't thought about it in any great detail, see.

Anyway, I'm thinking Brodda should haul Thorn off back to the hall, throw him in the dungeon, and await the lords return. How's that sound? Or do you prefer to do it at the hunt? I can go along with whatever you most prefer, I think - so long as it's reasonable.

[littlemanpoet]

Well well, I've found my way back to this place thanks to Esty's xanga site.

You know, the question you pose, Foley, is a toughy, and it sort of reveals to me that this an entire rpg may be based on a misconception of the Ulfings as more wholesome folk than Tolkien wrote them to be.

Because they would have to be more orcish by nature to want to turncoat, unless they were really stupid instead and believed the lies of Morgoth. Either way, there's a major issue with how secretive Uldor and the other brothers have been, and I frankly don't know how to resolve it; unless it has to do with sheer Machiavellian threat on the part of the Ulfing lords..... ????

[Folwren]

Oh. That is tough. Whoops.

Or, somehow, the Ulfing lords will orchestrate something to make it appear that it is the elves who were treacherous and Morgoth worthy of fighting for...and somehow sway the people that way.

In this sort of setting, thought, would not the Uflings fight for whomever their leader tells them to fight for? It is a sort of feudal system, isn't the Commoners may not like it, but it doesn't really matter what they like - it's Uldor and his brothers who call the shots, and their people obey.

What do Pio and Noinkling, and the other village people- writers say?

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Elempi, I had thought that Brodda would take Thorn to the great hall and ther await Uldor's return from the hunt. But it appears, from your latest post on the game thread, that Thorn is expecting to go to Uldor immediately, on the hunting field. What should I do in my next post?

[littlemanpoet]

My post does not appear to me to exclude Brodda taking him to the great hall. Continue with your plans.

[Folwren]

Okay, excellent. Just making doubly sure, my dear chap.

I am glad to see the forums seem to be back on normal track...

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Elempi,

I took them all the way to the hall, as you've likely observed. If you wanted to put anything before that, let me know. I can easily edit.

Also, I didn't say to what degree of roughness the guard handled Thorn with. I didn't want to say 'led' as that could seem too gentle, depending on what you were thinking. I also did not want to say 'dragged' becasue that seemed too rough... So you get to make the call as to how he's treated. :)

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

I noticed that. Thanks. :) It depends on a few things I have to decide. Are these "yes" men who are trying to impress Uldor (or Ulfast), or are they simply guards with a job to do? I suppose there could be both types. And there could be three different camps of guards all jockeying for the top honors into the bargain. I'll have to give this some thought before I post up. I'll probably have a chance Friday.

[Nogrod]

If Lalaith is not going to post something soon I think I need to take it over then and write Embla's and Fastarr's response to Lachrandir.

It would be nice if Lalaith were to post it as I have made the last one for the two.

Are you around Lalaith?

[Folwren]

I noticed that. Thanks. :) It depends on a few things I have to decide. Are these "yes" men who are trying to impress Uldor (or Ulfast), or are they simply guards with a job to do? I suppose there could be both types. And there could be three different camps of guards all jockeying for the top honors into the bargain. I'll have to give this some thought before I post up. I'll probably have a chance Friday.

I had something to say to this last night at home...but I couldn't sign out of Finduilas' account, so I decided to wait until today, at work...but now I forget...

It was probably either in agreement, or saying I didn't know if the guard who took Thorn away was one to suck up to Uldor and the rest. So, Elempi, you can decide to do whatever you want and whatever is most interesting for you.

You're right, Nogrod. It would be nice if Lailath (and some others) showed up and posted. I really wanted to see what came of Mem and the young man interested in her.

-- Folwren

[Lalaith]

Hello people. Sorry, I got kind of disheartened by the multiple forums. I'll post shortly.

[littlemanpoet]

That's a great post, Lalaith! :)

I'm finding myself confused about location, however. Lachrandir and the Ulfing lords have been on the hunt, and nobody ever moved them in their writing back to town. So my picture of this has been out in the wild, with Fastarr & Embla running away from the village into the wild to find them (which would be hard, no doubt); and Thorn would have been walking in that direction too until turned around and let to the great hall. But now Embla and Fastarr are with Lachrandir in the great hall, I presume, which is, I suppose, okay, if we understand that they've traveled for perhaps 15 to 30 minutes to get there. Or am I missing something?

I'll post by the end of the weekend.

[Lalaith]

Elempi, I was also confused and now I come to think of it, I don't know why I thought we were in a hall. Would you like me to edit the post?

[Nogrod]

My understanding is that Embla and Fastarr rode into the woods to find the stream / pond where the hunters should be (as the animals could be find there the easiest) and then they met the Ulfings and the Elves in the woods.

Then Lacharandir asked the two to follow him...

My initial reaction was that it would be just some hundred yards (max.) away to somewhere they could discuss things in peace (without the Ulfings hearing everything they said as Lachrandir understood the delicacy of the situation). But there still was a hunt going on so they shouldn't wander too far off...

I think your post is just great Lalaith... if you'd just change it to a forest setting. That would be the easiest way of solving this after all.

Anyway we want to make it...

[littlemanpoet]

Lalaith, I'm in agreement with Nogrod; just change it to a forest setting and it works.

[Nogrod]

Lmp: Is this bird-stuff something like an opening for anyone to catch or are there some more sinister ideas behind it?

I mean I could write Fastarr jumping to action - showing his qualities as it would be - but if you have other plans then I'd rather not spoil them... :rolleyes:

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I should have explained. The bird is my effort to bring Jord into the scene. I can edit it to meet with Gwathagor's intentions for her.

So basically, this is the set up for Lachrandir to be killed by Fastarr's sword in Jord's hand, and Fastarr and Embla to run away and then be implicated.

[Nogrod]

Sorry, I should have explained. The bird is my effort to bring Jord into the scene. I can edit it to meet with Gwathagor's intentions for her.Somehow I was thinking about Jord here...

So basically, this is the set up for Lachrandir to be killed by Fastarr's sword in Jord's hand, and Fastarr and Embla to run away and then be implicated.Okay. Please Gwath make the next post and then I will finish the scene. Feel free to make Fastarr running to protect the elf and however it is you will then make it twisting his sword against the elf... Just tell me whether Jord should survive the scene unharmed or is it okay if Fastarr in my post after yours manages to damage her physical form before she leaves?

[Gwathagor]

Somehow I was thinking about Jord here...

Okay. Please Gwath make the next post and then I will finish the scene. Feel free to make Fastarr running to protect the elf and however it is you will then make it twisting his sword against the elf... Just tell me whether Jord should survive the scene unharmed or is it okay if Fastarr in my post after yours manages to damage her physical form before she leaves?

I'll endeavor to read the last few posts, get myself into diabolical mode, and then work a post up in the next couple of days. :cool:

[Nogrod]

I'll wait for both your post and instructions Gwath... :)

And as I said feel free to use Fastarr if you make Jord to attack. He's a soldier (not a bad one) and will at least try. He will probably use his staff which is his preferred weapon as he's a big man being able to use it a lightly like using a stick.

[littlemanpoet]

I would prefer not to be the next person to post, as I did last, but if nobody else does by the end of the weekend, I will.

[Folwren]

I'll post for Uldor until after Nogrod has filled his save. :)

[Nogrod]

I'll post for Uldor until after Nogrod has filled his save. :)Gah! I was quite happy to go on writing back then and decided to do something I seldom do and made a save... and somehow it has just buried under all the stuff. I'll be filling it asap. Sorry.

[Folwren]

Gah! I was quite happy to go on writing back then and decided to do something I seldom do and made a save... and somehow it has just buried under all the stuff. I'll be filling it asap. Sorry.

You're fine. I didn't really post to hurry you along - I posted so everyone would know that I was still around. :)

[Nogrod]

I'll post it tomorrow.

[Folwren]

Sounds fine, Nogrod.

I'm leaving tomorrow morning early and will not come in contact with a computer again with enough time or energy to post until Sunday afternoon or evening.

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

Okay, I have added my part to the action. I deleted the save and added my post to the end of the thread.

Please Gwath and Lalaith come in as well... like everyone else.

(yeah, I'm not in position to take the moral high ground here but after all we're in the middle of action so let's get on with it!) :)

[Gwathagor]

What needs to happen with Jord? I want to be sure I'm following the intended plot-line. I could kill some more people.....:cool:

[Nogrod]

I could kill some more people.....:cool::)
I think Embla and Fastarr would need to get at least some time to live - to be able to make an attempt to find Tathren. And some of the Ulfing-lords might be interested in their lives as well.

But I do share the interest in the general plot line at this point. We are pretty near the end of the story, right?

Should we try to fex. unite the two Borrims with Thorn before this ends? It's also okay to me if Embla and Fastarr die in the forest as Huntha is already carrying the message of the treachery to the Borrims so the two might as well die - if it suits Lalaith to be sure.

How about the plots between the "princes"? Should they play them out themselves, have Jord taking part in it - or even the two Borrims and/or Tathren, Thorn?

And how about this "other gang", Dag and others? Is there a role for them in the unfolding of the last events?

[littlemanpoet]

I dunno, there's something romantic about lovers fleeing into the unknown together, surviving against all odds, finding happiness together despite the huge tragedy they couldn't avert. They don't have to die, but if you really want it; my idea, if you want it, is that Jord frames them for the murder of Lachrandir, and the ULfing lords hunt them unsuccessfully.

Thorn should have a chance to level his accusations against ULdor and Ulfast themselves before he is executed.

I think that Thorn and the two Borrim need not meet again.

Tathren (who will write him with Mithalwen not doing so?) will believe the framing, and take personal responsibility for getting the message back to Lord Caranthir that the Ulfings are to be trusted.

At least, that's what I'm suggesting. If you'd rather do something else, by all means.

[Noinkling]

Wow! I have a SAVE from January!! :eek:

Hmmmmmm.....well, I'll talk this all over with Pio and we'll see what we can come up with.

[Lalaith]

Well, Fastarr my dear, I don't mind if we live or die....I thought we could go back and live among the Bairka, if they'd have us, but hey, doing a tragic Babes in the Wood works for me too.
But I don't think anyone, Hunta or whoever else, should be carrying a message of treachery to the Borrim. Otherwise they would warn the elves at the battle.

We could get round that, as I suggested earlier, by the fact the Borrim force would have left for battle by the time any of us lot got back.


As for the Ulflings and their characteristics, here's what Ang said in the original planning:

Finally, a careful re-reading of "Of the Fifth Battle" reveals that the Ulfings who did not change sides in the Nirnaeth generally fled as best they could, discomfited by the lies and deceit filling their lives (paraphrase.) So this is another possible fate for those of you Ulfings who have good, but not especially brave, hearts

[Lalaith]

So what's happening, guys?

[Gwathagor]

I won't be able to post for several days as I'm going to be out in the woods shooting blanks at the ROTC cadets :). I'll try to post after I get back.

I think Fastarr and Embla should escape, and you could all post that without me, if you like.

[Nogrod]

With regards to Embla and Fastarr I think it's your go now Lalaith. :)

I guess the two would try to get away from both Jord and the Ulfings and to find Tathren. They probably are the only humans who know the truth now so would the others let them get away?

If you write them at least beginning an escape - and if we get some reactions to that from the other parties (Ulfings and Jord) ie. whether they concentrate on dealing with each other or whether some of them try to catch our characters - I could then continue.

Is that okay?

[littlemanpoet]

Fastarr and Embla should not find Tathren, who will always be in the company of the Ulfing lords until he leaves for Caranthir. After all, Tathren must not have any doubts about the Ulfings and must bring a positive report in their regard to Caranthir. I meeting between Fastarr and Embla and him would compromise that.

Thorn awaits his confrontation with the Ulfing lords (who will interrogate him with Tathren not around), and for that I need Folwren to post.

[Nogrod]

I thought it as well that Embla and Fastarr should not find Tathren but still searching for him is the option for them now as Lachrandir is dead and most of their friends either dead or gone. Just a minute... they don't yet know Khandr is dead. If they can't find Tathren from the forest then they should try to find Khandr.

Should fex. someone be sent to finish them off so that they would run for their lives and thus not be able to find Tathren? Maybe reaching their horses and going for Khandr then only to find him dead?

Just suggestions. I will not have time to write anything within a week I'm afraid as my scheduals look downright frustrating. But if you Lalaith could take the two a bit forwards I could then continue. And others as well, feel free to fex. send someone after the two.

[Finduilas]

Folwrens got chicken pox, so that's why she hasn't been 'round. Just thought you guys might like to know where she disappeared to...

[Lalaith]

I've been away for a few days but I'm back now and will post in the next day or two.
Hope Folwren is ok. Getting chickenpox when you're older can be nasty.

[Folwren]

Fastarr and Embla should not find Tathren, who will always be in the company of the Ulfing lords until he leaves for Caranthir. After all, Tathren must not have any doubts about the Ulfings and must bring a positive report in their regard to Caranthir. I meeting between Fastarr and Embla and him would compromise that.

Okay, if this is the case, then I need you, Elempi, to edit an earlier post and take out the place where it says that Tathren followed Lachrandir when Lachrandir took Embla and Fastarr away. Tathren will remain behind with the Ulfings. That way, no one except the two Borrim will have witness the killing.

I can try to write Tathren if you do not want to, Elempi.

-- Folwren

EDIT: I posted as though Tathren remained behind. If you wish to keep your earlier post the way it is, I can re-write mine, but I don't see how anything would work if Tathren actually saw what happened. Jord would probably kill him.

[littlemanpoet]

I've altered post # 232 as you suggested, Foley.

Foley, Uldor doesn't know who or what killed Lachrandir. He would naturally assume a "who" instead of a "thing", and he would most likely suspect the Borrim. Otherwise, great post. :)

[Folwren]

Aha. There. I have changed it - better? :)

Thanks for editing your earlier post.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

Jord has returned to the settlement and is about to find out (somehow...) that Thorn is trouble and needs to die.

[littlemanpoet]

:D "Her dress was dirty." :D That cracked me up, especially set off against all the dire evil. :D

[Lalaith]

Ok Noggie. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether we live or die.

[Nogrod]

Ok Noggie. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether we live or die.Aren't you afraid you're giving your "brother" a bit too much leeway? :D

Okay. As this is going to end pretty soon - correct me owners of the game if I'm wrong here - so I will come up with something nice either tomorrow or on Sunday.

I think the two deserve a nice ending though... be it a romantic death or something more JamesBond-like... :rolleyes:

[Gwathagor]

:D "Her dress was dirty." :D That cracked me up, especially set off against all the dire evil. :D

Oh good. I'm glad the irony of that wasn't lost on everyone.

[Nogrod]

Oh good. I'm glad the irony of that wasn't lost on everyone.

To ease your uncertainty, it did make me smile as well... ;)

[Gwathagor]

To ease your uncertainty, it did make me smile as well... ;)

:cool:

[Lalaith]

I enjoyed the dirty dress too.... but isn't it, technically speaking, deliberate bathos rather than irony?

And, Brother Nog, I await your James Bond and/or tragic finale with bated breath.

[Gwathagor]

What's bathos? :confused:

[piosenniel]

HERE (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bathos)

ba•thos (noun)

1.) a ludicrous descent from the exalted or lofty to the commonplace; anticlimax.

2.) insincere pathos; sentimentality; mawkishness.

3.) triteness or triviality in style.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Origin: 1630–40; < Gk: depth ]

—Synonyms: maudlinness, tearfulness; mush, gush, schmaltz; insipidity, inanity.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Gwathagor]

Huh, ok. Maybe it was bathos then. I don't know.

[littlemanpoet]

Leave it in. Considering such chapters as "Flotsam and Jetsam" in LotR, Tolkien purposely descended to bathos himself often enough; all he needed was Pippin to achieve it. ;)

Any thoughts, Gwath, on how Jord figures out that Thorn is her final problem top be rid of? It's kind of tough: Khandr's dead and Fastarr and Embla are fugitives. The only other person to hear his foretelling words was that other member of the Borrim house, the npc whose name escapes me. Does Jord have any mental "Osanwe" types of skills? Or are we going to simply have to have a deductive approach to this?

[Gwathagor]

Perhaps Jord finds out about Thorn through Uldor. It's been a while since they spoke, and Jord has some manipulating to do. It could come up in conversation.

[Folwren]

Perhaps Jord finds out about Thorn through Uldor. It's been a while since they spoke, and Jord has some manipulating to do. It could come up in conversation.

By the time Jord finds anything out about Thorn through Uldor, she won't have to do anything about him. Uldor will have taken care of all the details.

I thought Thorn was my character's duty to dispose of?

[Gwathagor]

Ok. Well, the main problem with Thorn is that he might tell Uldor about Jord's evil badness. Perhaps Jord should take care of this problem by convincing Uldor that Thorn is lying and needs to die. That has potential - gives Jord a chance to flex her manipulative muscles and show that she has more than one way of disposing of her foes. What do you think, LMP?

[littlemanpoet]

All right, I'll fess up. I was getting impatient - again! - with the pace of this rpg so I hatched a plan to Gwath to have Jord kill off Thorn, the only problem being how Jord was to find out who Thorn was and what he's been up to. What ever way this turns out, let's make it interesting! JOrd should manipulate Uldor - and Ulfast too. It's part of the set up.

[Lalaith]

Gwathagor, I hope you don't misunderstand me, I meant nothing but compliments with regard to the bathos.

I meant it as the first of pio's definitions, and when used deliberately, it is very funny. It is a fine literary device and some of the world's best writers such as Alexander Pope and Cervantes have used it to great effect. :)

[Gwathagor]

That's OK, that's what I figured.

[Mithalwen]

I just wanted to say sorry.

I never meant to abandon this and I do realise I must look like I had a terrible sulk but I work for an agency and in the Autumn I took on what I thought would be an easy two month assignment but turned into six incredibly demanding months (went in as assistant and ended up covering for the Financial controller from the new year, with a myriad of issues ) and usually 2 to 3 hour a day in the car. And then there were various illnesses and accidents ... I know I have been around the downs but I just haven't been able to do anything that requires much concentration and I just seem to have lost any creativity I ever had.
And it got to the point I was so embarassed that I couldn't even look at the thread...

Anyway I don't expect or deserve forgiveness and obviously you can do as you will with my abandoned child though if it helps he would have been extremely affected the death of Lachrandir who was a kind of father figure to him, and I always expected he would wind up as one of the many dead of the Nirnaeth should you do an epilogue.

[Folwren]

Mith! Your apology is of course very, very muchly accepted! I'm sorry to hear life has been so insanely busy for you. 3 hours in the car a day would be the worst part of it for me. I hope things calm down for you and you'll be able to sit back someday and join another RPG and really get to participate.

Thank you for your input on how Tathren would take this tragedy. If you wish to write for him until he leaves the game, then I would be so, so happy.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

I agree with Foley. Mithalwen, it would be great if you could write Tathren for the rest of this rpg.

[Mithalwen]

Thank you .. I felt so terrible about this ... I do like to see things through usually. Life has calmed down a lot for the moment so unless I am completely blocked I will try. I'll try to catch up tonight or tomorrow.

[Folwren]

Oh, no, no! You're not completely (or even halfway) blocked, by ANY means. If you want, someone could give you a summary of what has happened and what the current plans are, so you wouldn't have to read through both threads all the way, and you could concentrate more on reading the game thread.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

I meant writer's block actually not blocked by other characters.

I certainly don't expect anyone to alter their stuff for me.

Future plans would help ... and current ones .. I would prefer to concentrate on the game thread since I will end up not seeing the wood for the trees.

[Folwren]

O-oh. The ol' writer's block. Right.

Okay. What is currently taking place is this:

Lachrandir has just been killed by Thuringwethil. She killed him because a seer like character (introduced and played by Elempi) was receiving information from The Song about the intended treachery of the Ulfings and this seer told it to Khandr (Child of the 7th Ages character) who told it Fastarr (Nogrod's character) who informed Lachrandir. Thuringwethil first killed Khandr and then Lachrandir. I don't think she knows about Thorn (Elempi's seer) at this point.

Tathren and Lachrandir had joined the Borrim and the Ulfing lords on a hunt. After the first boar was killed, Fastarr and Embla had come running up to Lachrandir to tell them what they know about the Ulfings treachery. Lachrandir took them aside, leaving the Ulfings, Borrim, and Tathren. While they were alone, out of sight in the woods, and just after Fastarr and Embla had tried to make their message clear, Thuringwethil, in the form of a vampire bat thing, swooped down and killed Lachrandir. In his dying moment, he tried to connect to Tathren through telepathy, but only got out two words, not even complete thoughts - "Tathren! Treason!"

So, Tathren now knows, presumably, that there is treason somewhere. He is going to be made to believe that the treason is on the side of the Borrim and sent back home to Caranthir with that message. (Through cunning, Thuringwethil and Uldor are going to convince people that it was Fastarr who killed Lachrandir, I believe.)

Thorn, the seer, has in the mean time been thrown in prison. As soon as Uldor returns home, I imagine he'll have him killed.

As soon as Tathren is convinced and he leaves the settlement, we'll probably skip to the battle and finish the game.

Am I correct, everybody? If anyone has anything to add, any of my words to contradict, go right ahead. That is how I understand things at present, and I am very possibly wrong about some matters.

[Mithalwen]

Right I got that Lachrandir had been killed but not quite the prior situation. I think it is quite fitting that due to a misunderstanding it will be "all his fault" :rolleyes: ... OK well I have a nice long bank holiday W/E and only myself to answer to for once so I should be able ot get to grips with it. I will shove up a save, pick up from Folwren and develop Tathren's reaction to his master's death and be up to speed I hop for the beginning of next week.

I don't expect the save-fill to have much action, though I don't know how far out from the village they are, I am sure Tathren won't wan't to leave Lachrandir's body whatever the immediate danger.

Let me know anything I need to know inthat context.

Cheers

[Folwren]

Now the distance to the Ulfing settlement is something I do not know. Not terribly far. A mile or so, maybe? I don't know.

But they can certainly get Lachrandir's body on a horse to get him back...surely.

[littlemanpoet]

My sense has been that a boar hunt can lead a hunting party far afield. So at least a mile, but no more than 10 miles from the home site. However, the way we've been writing, it has been closer to around a mile.

I don't think the Elves would find it in their culture to throw an fellow Elf's body over a horse; they'd put together some kind of wooden bed that could be dragged between two horses at a slow pace, "in state", as it were.

[Mithalwen]

It may have to be that - I don't think Tathren would just sling the body across the horses back and though Elves seem light LAchrandir was a very long elf otherwise Tathren might carry his body before him as Imrahil did the injured Faramir... well won't have time til this evening...

[Mithalwen]

Save filled - the computer ate last nights version. Apologies for the wholesale rip off of the doom of Mandos.

I did write a scenario with Lachrandir's horse bearing Lachrandir in tathren's arms but besides being extremely sappy I had a sudden vision of Lachrandir's head falling off which I now can't rid myself of. So I deleted it.... the bier thingy may well be the way to go.

[Folwren]

I did write a scenario with Lachrandir's horse bearing Lachrandir in tathren's arms but besides being extremely sappy I had a sudden vision of Lachrandir's head falling off which I now can't rid myself of. So I deleted it.... the bier thingy may well be the way to go.

Oh, wow. The laugh that got out of me was practically shameful, considering the circumstances.

Yes, when I said put him on a horse, I meant, bear him before another rider (Tathren, presumably), as Imahril did Faramir, or eomer did Theodred in the movie. But a bier is good.

[Mithalwen]

Dreadful isn't it? Meant to be so moving and pieta like but I can't get beyond this potentially precarious head, what with Lachrandir being about a foot taller than Tathren and somehow them riding bareback eems to make the whole thing more difficult to manage.

I think it is all fault of a casualty (ER )nurse I used to know who told me some very gruesome tales about motorcyclists....

[Folwren]

Dreadful isn't it? Meant to be so moving and pieta like but I can't get beyond this potentially precarious head, what with Lachrandir being about a foot taller than Tathren and somehow them riding bareback eems to make the whole thing more difficult to manage.

I think it is all fault of a casualty (ER )nurse I used to know who told me some very gruesome tales about motorcyclists....

*chuckle* Your post was very good - it was moving. Riding bareback isn't difficult, but riding bareback holding someone a foot taller than you probably would be difficult. Never tried it.

I'll try to post today or tomorrow.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Well some horses are more comfortable than others, though personally I'd prefer a saddle over any distance but I imagine it would be harder to support the body if you, yourself don't have the support of the stirrups. It probably is possible - but probably a bit undignified...

[Anguirel]

I've just read the RP through and it is beyond my expectations and hopes in its success so far...

I am basically off-Downs, but if he is needed at the end, I would very much like to play Caranthir.

Poor old Lachers, eh!

[littlemanpoet]

Phew! I was worried you'd be angry at Lacher's death. :eek:

[Gwathagor]

When Uldor gets back, Jord will appear and converse with him in a sneaky, I'm-secretly-plotting-to-enslave-your-people-to-Morgoth kind of way and hopefully find out about Thorn through a comment dropped by Uldor. Then she can figure out how to get Thorn killed off while simultaneously pitting the brothers against each other so that they want to fight for Morgoth...this may require some serious thinking on my part. :eek:

[littlemanpoet]

I had been hoping for a conversation between Thorn and Uldor - but a conversation between Jord and Thorn would be even more interesting.

[Folwren]

Jord can still converse with Thorn but we can also still have the conversation between Uldor and Thorn, too. Jord can't very well kill Thorn in Uldor's prisons, can she? And why would she, when she knows Uldor is probably going to kill him anyway?

Anguirel, I'm glad you dropped by and read through the game, and I'm glad you approved. lol...like Elempi, I was worried you'd dislike the turn of events. :D

I don't know if Caranthir will be needed, but if you think of a way he could be brought into the story and you want to play him, then I won't be one to stop you!

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

Well I suppose my poor little elf-mite is going to have to do some explaining when he gets home..... to lose an emissary may be regarded as careless at least...

[Gwathagor]

Jord can still converse with Thorn but we can also still have the conversation between Uldor and Thorn, too. Jord can't very well kill Thorn in Uldor's prisons, can she? And why would she, when she knows Uldor is probably going to kill him anyway?


The trouble being that Thorn might reveal Jord's identity and mission to Uldor. Hence the motivation to kill him sooner rather than later. It must be thought on.
:)

[Folwren]

Uldor knows that Jord comes from Morgoth, if that's what you're worried about.

Yes...Tathren will have a great deal of explaining to do for himself back home. :eek:

[Gwathagor]

Uldor knows that Jord comes from Morgoth, if that's what you're worried about.

Well then...no point in killing Thorn just yet.

[Lalaith]

Nogrod, so it looks like you are being smeared re the death of old Lachy. What are you going to do about it, do you think?

[Mithalwen]

Uldor knows that Jord comes from Morgoth, if that's what you're worried about.

Yes...Tathren will have a great deal of explaining to do for himself back home. :eek:

Yes, and Caranthir isn't exactly cuddly and approachable is he?... might be a tad worse than being summoned to the headteacher's office...

[Folwren]

Yes, and Caranthir isn't exactly cuddly and approachable is he?... might be a tad worse than being summoned to the headteacher's office...

I'd definitely dread it a bit more.

Hey, it looks like Anguirel may be able to play Caranthir after all! This could be extremely interesting.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

It would certainly be more exciting than one of those dreary lectures.... although the end of term speech by the head when I was Assistant Matroning was a corker ...full of unintentional humour and backhanded comments such as while congratulating one girl on getting a place at a fairly prestigious girl's senior school effectively saying that when she arrived she seemed so thick that you wouldn't think that she would stand a chance of getting in to such an academically selective institution.

the wretched computer has just eaten my post .... I will have to redo tomorrow... will teach me not to save :(

[littlemanpoet]

Mithalwen, I'm not going to fill my save until you fill yours because what you write for Tathren may affect what I write for Ulfast. It has been almost a full week now since those saves went up.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry I haven't had any significant online time since monday when the post literally got swallowed as I was about to save. I will try tonight if I can get an hour at the library but if not tomorrow definitely.

I don't htink it should affect anyone else.
Tathren really just lays out Lachrandir and does not register the significance of the attitude of the body ie that it was dropped from a height rather than just fell to the ground. Being elvish I thought it would not occur to him to close the eyes .... which may freak out the servants when they return. Lachrandir's horse will have joined them. Tathren will be thinking about what happens next as far as he is able in his current state.

Oh yes .. would that bag of cash have been handed over already?

[Mithalwen]

Save filled enfin

[littlemanpoet]

I expect to have my save filled by the end of the day.

[littlemanpoet]

My save is filled. Foley, I think it's about your turn.

[Folwren]

Yes, I'd agree. It's my turn in more than one game...eehh.. Late tonight, at earliest, I'm guessing.

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

I'm leaving tomorrow morning and won't come back until June 6. Then after that, I will be gone every week, and back every weekend, until the middle of July. On the weekends, I will try to catch up on all my necessary writing of posts. I'm volunteering at a camp, you see, for approximately 8 weeks. :)

If I'm lucky, I'll get a post in for Uldor before I leave.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

Should I post, or should we just wait for Folwren to return from her goings out and comings in?

[littlemanpoet]

Gwath, Ulfast wants to find Jord, and Jord no doubt wants to work her wiles on both brothers, so if you want to do an insidious type post, I think it would be appropriate; then Foley would have something very useful to work with when she posts.

[Mithalwen]

given that LMP is winding up his RPG involvement and Folwren has plenty of stuff going on to state what further posting if any we envisage to complete our character's story? It mighty provide a bit of framework for the endgame.

For example Tathren on a personal level is going to have to dispose of Lachrandir's body (funeral pyre), hand over the cash (if that has happened I missed it), and make his way home to face Caranthir.

Would the Ulfings be sophisticated enough to demand a sort of inquest in to Lachrandir's death or would it be - he's dead, these things happen?

Any other suggestions of what he might need to do or that others need him to do, gratefully received. :D

[Lalaith]

I left it to Nogs to decide if those poor benighted Borrim lovers are going to live or die...and they're still blundering around the forest weeks later...:rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Tsk, tsk..these people who don't post for ages... :o

So you are Schrödinger's cat? Tricksy.....

[littlemanpoet]

I'm still around and waiting for someone to do something so that I can post again. I've asked Gwathagor to post for Jord and he said he would, and still intends to according to word I've had but he's gotten distracted (as has Nogrod) by a certain Dueling Wizards werewolf game. So we can either pester the heck out of them or wait until the deuced game is over (in about 10 days or so). I haven't been pestering in regard to this because it feels like it's winding down anyway, and I have rather intense involvement (yes, still) in 2 other rpgs one of which has reached its dyscatastrophe and now is ratcheting up toward its eucatastrophe (if we are capable).

As to an inquest, I think the Ulfings are sophisticated enough to go through some sort of basic inquest for the sake of at least the appearance of justice; after all, Lord Caranthir could come calling asking for an explanation before the battle begins, and the Ulfings will not want to be without an answer. Of course, I don't care to see that get drawn out into some months long posting chore... :rolleyes:

[Gwathagor]

I'm sorry that DW II has distracted me from this RPG (not that I'm very good about posting regularly anyway...):rolleyes:. I'll do my best to post real soon.

[Nogrod]

I left it to Nogs to decide if those poor benighted Borrim lovers are going to live or die...and they're still blundering around the forest weeks later...:rolleyes:I try to post this weekend as Lommy and Greenie will be away and my time that is not going to the DW II can be assigned elswhere... :)

Sorry.

[Mithalwen]

(yes, still) in 2 other rpgs one of which has reached its dyscatastrophe and now is ratcheting up toward its eucatastrophe (if we are capable).

As to an inquest, I think the Ulfings are sophisticated enough to go through some sort of basic inquest for the sake of at least the appearance of justice; after all, Lord Caranthir could come calling asking for an explanation before the battle begins, and the Ulfings will not want to be without an answer. Of course, I don't care to see that get drawn out into some months long posting chore... :rolleyes:

One of these days I will learn what those words mean...

It was because it is so near the end that I thought we could discuss what we felt was needed to do in the few posts that remain with the aim of simplifying rather than complicating.

The inquest need not be a chore for anyone particularly, it could be as little as a reference in the funeral post - " inquiries had been made but it seemed the exact circumstancees of Lachrandir's death would remain a mystery" (depened on what happens to the Borrim - eg if they die and their bodies are found they would be recognised as the people who had spoken to L. It certainly doesn't need to be played out.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, that sounds better. All there needs to be for my posting is for Jord and Ulfast to connect with appropriate ramifications, including Jord finding out about Thorn and wanting to influence both Ulfast and Uldor in regard to Thorn. Then there needs to be an "interview" between Uldor/Ulfast/Jord and Thorn, and then Thorn gets killed.

[piosenniel]

Since all the players for the Ulfing sub-story have abandoned the game, except for Noinkling and myself, we’ve brought our little sub-plot this far:

HERE (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=543179&postcount=221).....then.....HERE (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=550023&postcount=238)

Once the inquest is started my oldest male Ulfing and his two grown sons will attend. Noinkling’s character and mine will then discuss our opinions on the event. And before the Ulfings leave for the battle, our family group and that originally of bill_n_sam will leave the main group and head back east, away from the intrigue and the soon to be disaster.

At the end of the game, I’ll most likely wrap up our story with an epilog - a happier ending, I think, than comes ultimately to the rest of the Ulfings and the Borrim.

[Lalaith]

Out of interest...this is my first RPG so I don't know what the score is. Is 21 months a normal amount of time or was this an unusually drawn-out game?

[Mithalwen]

Very long .... I have just checked the ones I have been involved in and they were four to six months. Island of Sorrow was over a year though.

I think a lot depends on the structure of the story and the context. Darker Days was a relatively simple plot and because it didn't relate to the "known" history of Middle Earth the writers were not too restricted by "known historical facts". However Red flows the Sirannon came in at under six months despite the historical context but the plot was still simpler and had a lot of experienced players.

This kind of complex set up where there are lots of separate groups make it particularly hard to gain momentum....

I can only conclude that minimally historical journey style RPGs with only one or two groups are the easiest to keep going.. at least that is the way I shall go if I ever dare take the plunge... :cool:

[Gwathagor]

All there needs to be for my posting is for Jord and Ulfast to connect with appropriate ramifications, including Jord finding out about Thorn and wanting to influence both Ulfast and Uldor in regard to Thorn.

I'll see what I can do on my end. I'm always scared of instigating events or situations, but I'll give it a shot.
:)

[Gwathagor]

Voila, I post.

[littlemanpoet]

Foley, your turn unless Gwath wants Jord to show more initiative.

[Folwren]

K. Thanks for giving me the heads up.

[Nogrod]

I'll be bringing an end to Fastarr and Embla within 24 hours... I hope... Just to wrap it up as well - and Lalaith will have a veto on that... :)

[littlemanpoet]

I'll be very disappointed if Fastarr and Embla get killed. :(

[Mithalwen]

I probably won't be online till Monday now. I'll bring back L's body then or you can just have him arrive if it is easier!!!.

[Nogrod]

I managed to write an ending post for Embla and Fastarr but as there were so many things I'd like to hear Lalaith's POV on I sent it to her first to be corrected / revised / deleted... :rolleyes:

But that hopefully is coming soon and then the two will be written off.


It has been a great game but possibly a bit too complicated as a story in this kind of forum. The several sub-plots just didn't catch fire similarily and then many people were forced to wait when they would have wished to write and were required writing when they hadn't a chance.

But a great story!

*Just wondering how good this could have been* (never do that, I know... :smokin:)

PS. Don't worry elempi, Embla and Fastarr will be fine!

[Nogrod]

Embla and Fastarr have left the story. So it's all wrapped up for me and Lalaith.


Thanks Lalaith! It was fun and a pleasure to wrote those characters with you!

[littlemanpoet]

Nice closing, Noggie and Lal. :)

Looks like Foley missed her chance and is off to camp until the weekend. Gwath, that makes it your turn.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry to be a pain in the proverbial, Nogrod, but we decided that it would be too undignified for Lachrandir's body to be carried on a horse. They are sending a wain for him. Tathren is waiting by the body with the horses and 2 servants.
When it arrives he will follow it back.

:(

[Nogrod]

Sorry to be a pain in the proverbial, Nogrod, but we decided that it would be too undignified for Lachrandir's body to be carried on a horse.Sorry Mith. I'll change that.

And in the end the two had run a considerable distance so they just follow the wain disappearing.

No problem.

EDIT: Done.

[Lalaith]

Nog's wrap-up for us was rather nice, wasn't it? That happy ending cheered me greatly during all the traumas of XLVII....

[Gwathagor]

Okay! I have posted, and hand the baton off to...Ulfast!

[littlemanpoet]

Back to you, Gwath. I added a little bit more to my last post, so please check it out.

[littlemanpoet]

Let's stop dragging our heals, folks.

If by July 7 posts don't get written that take Uldor and Ulfast (presumably with Jord listening in) to speaking with Thorn, I will kill Thorn off my own way and leave Ulfast to whomever wants to write for him.

[Folwren]

There. I brought it forward a little more. Maybe the ball will contiue rolling. I'm home for a few days yet.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

I'll get a post in before Friday, when I'm leaving for a week.

[Gwathagor]

Post up.

[Folwren]

Hi. I wanted to post today, but it doesn't look like I'm getting the chance. I'll try to write something this week, but I'll be at camp, so I can't promise anything.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

Great! Let's get Thorn good and dead for LMP, who has been really patient.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm wondering if a 3-way PM-built post might be a good idea between Gwath, Foley, and me; that would help us to include Uldor, Ulfast, Jord, and Thorn in more of a dialogue format. Let me know what you think.

[Gwathagor]

I'm game. Let's do it.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, but it has to be Foley who starts it unless I change the ending of my last post so that Jord can interrupt Uldor. Which way do you want to proceed?

[Folwren]

Okay. Great. This is the first time I've read this thought. I'll start it as soon as I've energy to think. I'll get the beginning sent to you two as soon as possible. That is, tomorrow sometime.

[Mithalwen]

Just out of curiosity - is there any progress on this?

[Folwren]

Yes, there is. Slow but sure, a post is being built by PM between Gwath, Elempi, and myself.

Sorry it's taking so long.

-- Foley

[Mithalwen]

No that is fine ...just wondering .... :cool:

[littlemanpoet]

I decided to post the three way PM-built post between Foley, Gwath, and me, because it seemed like, as a post, it had reached a conclusion.

Gwath, I'll give you a day or two to post for Jord unless you prefer me to do so for Ulfast and/or Thorn.

[Folwren]

How long do you think until we can draw this to a close? We've got to hurry before someone talks Uldor into being reasonable and start listening to the truth. :eek:

We need to send Tathren back to Caranthir and then I believe once he is gone, we can draw it to a close, somehow.

What if...what if Uldor sent Tathren back, telling Caranthir that he would fight for him - almost fully intending to - but after the ambassador left, Jord somehow changed his mind? Right now, it feels to me as though Uldor is in a position of imbalance. He's not sure what to do, but Caranthir needs an answer. His oath compels him to swear allegiance, so he does, but temptation and fear later convinces him to commit treason.

Did that make sense?

[Gwathagor]

Yes, I think so. What sort of thing would be likely to persuade Uldor? He has been pretty resilient to Jord's promises of power and wealth, thus the speculation in my last post that Uldor would eventually be driven to serve Morgoth through his own pride and arrogance - rather than by any outward temptation.

[littlemanpoet]

Perhaps, Foley, it might be helpful to consider that Uldor doesn't have much of a conscience. He's too ambitious and ruthless and willing to lie to himself to believe what he wants to believe - such is the nature of evil - so the self-doubt you put in the tale end of that post could be quite temporary, and of course Jord could "sweeten" the temptation in whatever ways Gwath deems appropriate.

I can post for Ulfast and for Thorn early this week, maybe yet tonight. Then Gwath can post Thorn's death by Jord's hand (no doubt). And then things can wrap up as Foley suggested. Sound good?

[Folwren]

Perhaps, Foley, it might be helpful to consider that Uldor doesn't have much of a conscience. He's too ambitious and ruthless and willing to lie to himself to believe what he wants to believe - such is the nature of evil - so the self-doubt you put in the tale end of that post could be quite temporary, and of course Jord could "sweeten" the temptation in whatever ways Gwath deems appropriate.

I guess so. I can work that. Right now, he's just wondering which is the best for himself - the elves or Morgoth?

I can post for Ulfast and for Thorn early this week, maybe yet tonight. Then Gwath can post Thorn's death by Jord's hand (no doubt). And then things can wrap up as Foley suggested. Sound good?

Gosh, would Jord really want to kill Thorn when Uldor already has torture in mind?

[littlemanpoet]

Gosh, would Jord really want to kill Thorn when Uldor already has torture in mind?Can Jord control herself enough not to commit the deed, especially when she can rationalize that her version of killing is a most exquisite torture? ;) And nobody said she had to do it fast.

[Folwren]

Can Jord control herself enough not to commit the deed, especially when she can rationalize that her version of killing is a most exquisite torture? ;) And nobody said she had to do it fast.

I guess Gwath's the only one who can answer that question. If I were writing an evil character (which I am), I'd leave Thorn to the torturer's (which I did).

[littlemanpoet]

So what's next here? Does someone need to narrate the end of Thorn and get the wagons of war rolling?

[Gwathagor]

Finishing Thorn is a job for either you Folwren, I'd say.

I'll help out with them wagons o' war.