Werewolf XXXII: The Lost Age

[Rikae]

Yeah...I kind of miss being an ordo. In the last four games I've been: Wolf, Seer, Ranger, Seer. :eek:

[Rikae]

But at least I made it to day two this time...:rolleyes:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I didn't suspect Kitanna. I chose her purely because she had made only one post and no-one had really mentioned her. This meant that the so-called 'Kitanna-suspicion' would have started with me, and allowed others to jump on it.

I haven't commented too much on it, though I did vote for Celuien, because others have been all too willing to discuss the ins and outs of it.

Celuien had indeed commented on Kitanna's post before my scheme, and while it was not exactly a major point that Celuien made, I think it's possible that Rikae could have been referring to this. And so she mistook me for Celuien, yadda, yadda.

I keep switching back and forth on Nogrod. I think he defends himself too much against all accusations. He seems to be panicking a bit. But then SPM and Roa (especially those two) are pushing his buttons.

Right now I'm confused about the number of votes and this phantom Celuien voter. Let me go check that now.

[Thinlómien]

But at least I made it to day two this time...:rolleyes:Poor you. :) (And poor us if you're really the seer, which I'm inclined to believe since I don't see why would a vampire-Rikae bluff this way at this phase of the game...)

edit: xed with Eomer

[Thinlómien]

(of course I was not taking into account the possibility of a more believable contesting claim there... the appearing of such is possible even though I doubt it)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hrm.

Can't stay for this discussion unfortunately. One quick thought about the 'Celuien 5 votes/only 4 accounted for' saga:

Maybe a vampire said that he/she would vote for a fellow vampire in public, but then actually cast his/her real vote for Celuien. In that case, look for pairs of voters and whom they voted for.

Must dash, sorry if that doesn't make sense (I haven't thought it through perfectly). I'll try and get back on the thread later but I might just be forced to hack someone's email account ( :p ). I have no idea who to vote for right now. Sorry. Maybe that lazy Ranger...

[Aganzir]

Maybe a vampire said that he/she would vote for a fellow vampire in public, but then actually cast his/her real vote for Celuien. In that case, look for pairs of voters and whom they voted for.
Did I read this completely wrong, or are you saying that the vampires can vote?

[Aganzir]

...but Eomer's post caught my eye, and I had to ask.

I'm sorry I have been relatively silent. There's been a huge amount of schoolwork (and will be more after the May Day holiday has ended), and I haven't had too much time for computer. The other reason is that I'm quite new to this and don't have many ideas - and usually, when I finally make it to the Downs, everything I was going to say is already said. There are so many players that it's also a bit difficult to remember everything I've been thinking about them.
I will try to be more active.

Now, I'm going to sum up my thoughts about others. I don't have any idea who to vote for today, and I hope this will help me to decide. I'll be back with a post soon.

[Kath]

Just to warn you, I may not be able to be here exactly on the deadline, so you're all on your honour to stop talking at 3PM, which is an hour and 10 minutes away by my clock. Hopefully I will be here, this is a just in case.

[Rikae]

All right, I'm sending in a vote for

++Legate

And I suppose I will dream of either SPM, Nogrod or Roa tonight...(any suggestions?)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

eah...I kind of miss being an ordo. In the last four games I've been: Wolf, Seer, Ranger, Seer
awww it must be so hard on you actually being allowed to play gifted roles, just imagine the bliss of those who play countless of games, but never get to be a gifted. . .

anyways I find what Roa says about Durelin and Nogrod in post something. . .anyways I must do a lot of quick reading to decide who to vote for.

[Nogrod]

Oh my...

So without a contesting claim I'm going to trust you Rikae. How familiar this is, the gifteds look like vampires... :eek:

But happily the ranger probably is able to cover you toNight and then at least another of possible dreamees can be saved the next Night.

With a village of this size it's a thin comfort but well, better than nothing.


Then again I must joint the gang who are pretty unsure about whom to vote toDay as I don't think Rikae an option anymore, toDay that is.

Nogrod and Roa both worry me. I mean, they're both smart, reasonable players. However, in this game they've both been making more or less weak cases and then accused each other of making weak cases. I don't think this is very normal of them. And I can't help thinking that a vampire-Noggie and a vampire-Roa might co-operate in this way...Were we the wolves one day... *sighs* ... we would build up such a presentation... not this mess we seem to have right now. :confused:

Now where are you Legate? I would really like to hear more from you...

Voting for the lazy partners is an option to me as well...

(I need to go shopping as the shops close at the dealine hour here but I'll be back with hopefully something to say actually... hopefully)

[Nogrod]

Just to warn you, I may not be able to be here exactly on the deadline, so you're all on your honour to stop talking at 3PM, which is an hour and 10 minutes away by my clock. Hopefully I will be here, this is a just in case.No Kath. It's two hours... Please.

[Rikae]

Clearly it's five hours. :p

[Thinlómien]

Clearly it's five hours. :p
So you don't agree with Nogrod's (and my) conception of the deadline? :confused:

[Rikae]

According to what Kath said, I get to talk for five more hours (though it won't be much fun talking to myself)!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Well, then Nogrod and Lommy actually have 11 hours still if. . .I am quite sure we should think of it as in GMT :p

[Thinlómien]

anyways I find what Roa says about Durelin and Nogrod in post something. . .anyways I must do a lot of quick reading to decide who to vote for.Err, sorry what did you mean by this? :confused: <- this is soon to beacome my fave smilie, I see...

Voting for the lazy partners is an option to me as well...For me too since I have pretty much no idea who I think is a vampire. Of the silent ones I'd prefer to lynch Xyzzy, since he might be active enough to avoid the modfire, but passive enough to leave no tracks of any kind and because the few things he has said aren't very innocentish...

edit: xed with Rikae and Rune... haha :D

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, the deadline is creeping up and I may as well vote. As I was apparently wrong about Rikae, I've voted for Boromir88, one of my other suspects whom I've listed reasons for earlier.

[Thinlómien]

The correct deadline can be seen from the time stamp of this post of Volo's
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=518852&postcount=113

(Just if anyone's still confused...)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I was just saying that when reading through the post Roa's was the one that jumped to my attention and that in a good way as I found it very well constructed.

I find the points made about Nogrod and Durelin in post 229 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519576&postcount=229) are worth noticing and I for one will take it in to consideration.

The thing is I always have a hard time figuring Dureling out, actually I have never tried to truly suspect her to be confident of her innocens. It just makes it easier when other people have some valid points as I am clearly not capable of producing any my self.

anyways I was thinking about voting for Menel once more or maybe a non-contributer. . .Of course I could also see who the most realistic candidates are and base my desicion on that and another possibility is to vote for Gil with the reasoning "He speaks too much" :D

[Thinlómien]

I suspected Menel yesterDay and still do to some extent, but I just feel that I can't judge him just yet... Maybe tomorrow when there's been more posts from him I can form a clearer picture of him.

Is there anyone else than me who might be interested in voting xyzzy today? Because it'd be pointless to go on a solo crusade against him and waste a vote.

[Macalaure]

I'm growing slightly worried about Mac. He seems to be slipping under everybody's radar. Nobody's suspecting him, nobody's almost even talking about him. How is this possible? I understand people let Celuien-voters slip under their radar at this phase, but Mac is a Legate-voter - a group I'm fairly sure at least one vampire is hiding in. I don't think Mac is very suspicious, but I'm worried of him slipping under the radar, especially as he's been more silent than usually - is he trying to contribute to his slipping under the radar by this?
Ehm, what?

Lommy, either you have a point or two against me or you don't.

If you do, I'd be pleased to hear them, if you don't, then why do you say a completely unreasoned "I don't think he's suspicious, but he might slip under the radar" as the first paragraph of your post?

You start to puzzle me.


And now we're about to lose our seer so early. Especially in this game, where there is so little knowledge, this is a bad thing.

And I suppose I will dream of either SPM, Nogrod or Roa tonight...(any suggestions?)Well, if you're asking, I would take El Saucepan Hombre.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

hmmm so far all I have seen xyzzy doing is making weird cases against me, but I don't know how suspiciouse that is. . .

and Rikae I would take Nogrod or Roa as your last dream.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy, either you have a point or two against me or you don't.I guess you didn't understand me. I was not saying that I find you suspicious. (If you want to know, you're on my "grey zone" right now.) I was just saying that I find it worriesome that you seem to be slipping under everybody's radar.

[Boromir88]

I only have an ordo now, let me have one more dream~Rikae
Would you care to share who that ordo is? I think any known innocent at this point is a great help, but it's up to you.
And I suppose I will dream of either SPM, Nogrod or Roa tonight...(any suggestions?)
Keep that to yourself and make the decision yourself. With the ranger protection the vampires won't be going after you, but if they know who you're going to dream of they will be going after your dream.

Yes, Mac, I am well aware that Legate hasn't posted yet today. Is there a reason I've missed? I checked briefly through the admin thread but didn't see anything. And Legate not posting isn't going to change my mind especially now that Rikae (my other likely vote receiver) is the seer.

Anyway, tomorrow I think Nogrod and SPM will be getting looked at more by me.

[Boromir88]

And just as I say this

Keep that to yourself and make the decision yourself. With the ranger protection the vampires won't be going after you, but if they know who you're going to dream of they will be going after your dream.
Mac gives a name :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

Gil: He's been speaking quite much, and mostly sense. I think he's probably innocent, but he's not on the top of my probably innocent -list.

Shasta: He stopped roleplaying and started speaking after some had expressed concern about him. It's maybe a good thing, and it wouldn't have been very clever to continue in-character, as it's easier to be sensible when not roleplaying. I don't have an opinion of my own about the Shasta-Legate connection, so it's maybe better that I don't start speaking about it. Slightly suspicious, maybe innocent.

Spm: I can't say anything about him - he's made good points, but others have also found some things he has said suspicious. I'm afraid he's a player who I would never catch, were he a vampire.

Boro: I'm not very concerned about him at the moment. There hasn't been anything eye-catching in his posts.

Mac: It's really difficult to say anything about him.

Menel: I'm a little concerned about him. Something in his posts just struck me, though I can't define what it actually is.

Rikae: She's been suspected a lot, and I understand why, but still I couldn't see her as a vampire, not even before she revealed herself to be the seer.

Legate: It's hard to say anything. I'm more inclined to classify him as "slightly suspicious" than "probably innocent".

Sleepy: Not much to say about him.

Nogrod: The other player who I surely wouldn't catch. Spm's & Nogrod's reasoning is on a much higher level than mine.

Rune: He's a difficult one. I can't say anything about him. He's not suspicious enough that I would vote for him today, though.

Sixth: I think he's more probably an innocent than a vampire.

Kitanna: It's hard to say anything about her, but I'm inclined to believe she's rather innocent than a vampire.

Xyzzy: He hasn't actually said anything. I think he's voted with quite vague grounds. Slightly suspicious.

Di: I think she's more probably innocent than a vampire. She looks quite genuine.

Roa: She looks quite innocent to me. She was one of Celuien-voters, and if we trust the voting records, all of us (Lommy, Eomer, Roa, me) + an extra-voter who didn't reveal him/herself should be innocent.

Eomer: I can't see any reason why he would be lying (about the lynch seer thing, about his "attack" against Kitanna). Celuien-voter.

Lommy: She looks quite innocentish. She, too, a Celuien-voter.

Durelin: Probably innocent.

Glirdan: Has he posted anything? No?


While reading the thread, this caught my eye:I'm only mildly suspicious of Rikae, but perhaps the seer could decide for us...
I'm not sure if it means anything, but it could be interpreted that Xyzzy is hinting he knows Rikae is the seer. This could make Xyzzy either the Vampire seer or the Shade. I don't think this is very probable, but maybe it's worth mentioning.

I don't think I will vote for anyone who voted for Celuien yesterday. It's quite unlikely that a vampire would be hiding in this group. At the moment I think I will vote for either Menel or Xyzzy.

edit: x'd with many

[Boromir88]

Would you care to share who that ordo is? I think any known innocent at this point is a great help, but it's up to you.~myself
actually scratch that Rikae, it's better you reveal all your info tomorrow

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Would you care to share who that ordo is? I think any known innocent at this point is a great help, but it's up to you.

Keep that to yourself and make the decision yourself. With the ranger protection the vampires won't be going after you, but if they know who you're going to dream of they will be going after your dream.

Yes and if she reveals the ordo, the ordo will be dead by tomorrow. . .if she does not reveal the name we might have 3 known innocents. (if you count Rikae)

[Nogrod]

Would you care to share who that ordo is? I think any known innocent at this point is a great help, but it's up to you.
Keep that to yourself and make the decision yourself. With the ranger protection the vampires won't be going after you, but if they know who you're going to dream of they will be going after your dream.A really bad advice (the first) and a good one (the second) in a same post...

You do puzzle me Boro. I hope the first was a mistake. Rikae should not pose the innocent as an open target to the wolves if the one is not going to be lynched.

EDIT: X'd with Boro & Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

actually scratch that Rikae, it's better you reveal all your info tomorrow
I am gald you added this. . .I found the other sugestion a bit worrying.

[Aganzir]

Isn't the Shade able to protect during Nights, too? What if the Ranger protects Rikae next Night and the Shade the following Night? This would win us one dream more.

Of course, it's up to the Shade.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK I am willing to vote xyzzy if others are as well. . .but I have to know now otherwise I vote Menel.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Menel

[Thinlómien]

Well, Rune, like I just said I'm willing to vote him. I think Nogrod and Saucepan might be inclined too, and Aganzir seemingly too...

Yet I must say I'm not very suspicious of xyzzy, for me voting him is more like an attempt to eliminate a possible threat and an attempt which may give even unexpectedly good results (if xyzzy is a vampire that is)...

edit: xed with Rune :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

I can vote for Xyzzy, although I'm probably saying this too late for Rune. I would, however, like to wait before casting my vote, in case that either Xyzzy or Menel shows up and wants to defend himself.

edit: x'd with Lommy

[Boromir88]

That was probably the worst advice I have ever given in my WW history but I realized that before you and Rune could jump down my throat (my computer is locking up and I can not use "periods" or "commas" so sorry if this is just a giant blob of words)

anyway I am going to vote for

++Legate

[Nogrod]

I might go for Xyzzy as well, but it just feels bad... Yes I know I have been the one who always calls for the elimination of those who do not contribute to our case early on if there are no better candiodate but then when it comes to it in practise I find myself wawering... :(

Boro's suggestion of Legate isn't impossible either. I voted him yesterDay and could do it again. I referred to the reasons earlier toDay and if I have time (I'm sharing the computer still with Lommy) I will try to see if I can manage to make at least myself assured about it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

ehm


Just to warn you, I may not be able to be here exactly on the deadline, so you're all on your honour to stop talking at 3PM, which is an hour and 10 minutes away by my clock. Hopefully I will be here, this is a just in case.

[Nogrod]

There's just too many of us in this game! :p

I was looking back the thread and realised it again... I mean I could as well go for Kitanna, Shasta, Sleepy, Glirdy, Durelin, Diamond... So many people under my radar at the moment and only a half an hour (shared with Lommy) on this Day.

[Aganzir]

Whoever the Lynch Seer will be, I think it's better if s/he won't give the lynchee a chance to kill somebody (even though s/he her/himself thought the lynchee was innocent), now that we know Rikae is the seer. Just in case.

[Nogrod]

Rune. The deadline is 3PM GMT. So we have forty minutes still...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes GMT. . . I am in GMT+1 and it is 16:20 here, I am sorry, but it is you who have mixed up the timezones.

[The Saucepan Man]

We still have another 40 mins or so before the deadline, right? I hope so.

Rikae, we must stop clashing like this ... :rolleyes:

I'll believe your claim for now (with no counter claims having been made thus far), and I am sorry for pressing you. It's just that slip looked so suspicious to me.

I have no problem at all with you dreaming of me, although you would not catch a Wolf. In any event, you should most certainly not given any further hints here concerning your dream subject.

By my calculations (and subject to any cross-posts), the stated votes stand as follows at present:

Diamond: Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1)
Shasta: Gil (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1)
Kitanna: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2)
Rikae: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1)
Menel: Boro (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1)
Rune: Menel (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Boro: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)

Obviously, we should look to save Rikae. My preference would be to vote for Nogrod, who was second on my suspicion list before Rikae revealed. I would, however, be prepared to vote for Menel, Shasta or Xyzzy, all of whom I also find suspicious, to save Rikae.

I guess that if Rikae's known innocent looks like a strong possibility for lynching, she should reveral. Otherwsie, most certainly not.

[Thinlómien]

No, Rune, because of the daylight saving time you're currently on GMT+2... And the British people are in GMT+1, not in GMT.

[Durelin]

Just a quick post to let everyone know I want to vote for Boro but I want to save Rikae, too.....

A post with some explanation will follow shortly, promise.

[Thinlómien]

I'd maybe prefer to vote xyzzy, but I could vote maybe Menel or Legate as well.. I don't know. I should revise but I lack the time...

[Aganzir]

I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.

[Durelin]

Looking over the thread, with Legate voters from yesterDay in mind, Boro strikes me as very suspicious...(actually he, Roa, and Mac seem like such a perfect trio...)

His play style yesterDay in particular, after everyone jumped on Celuien and Rikae, was interesting. He furthered the suspicion of both Celuien and Rikae nicely with his "By God, bloody brilliant vampire-trapping, ol' chap" to Eomer, without actually stating that they were "great suspects" of his or anything. Seems safe to me.

Then Roa follows up just a post later with Celuien and Rikae being suspicious to her for "falling for Eomer's trap."

He said himself that he didn't say anything about Kitanna...was there really a trap there? It seems a little odd to me to focus on people "outing" other people, so to speak. I think a great deal of what people do is to try and get reactions. And when people bite, everyone gets to see their behavior...it's their behavior that matters, right? I don't know, it just feels odd.

You know what really sucks? We don't even know for sure if Rikae really is in danger of lynching or not. Bleh. But we can't risk it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

(copy from andmin thread) Sorry folks for me not being playing today, I wasn't at home from yesterday's afternoon till now since I was away from the city, I originally thought I'd make it home from faculty to be here at the start of the day or at least post that I'll be away, but I didn't make it.

I guess it's not much time here so I'll try to look through the thread, hopefully'll be yet back.

[Durelin]

Oh, I forgot to say the obvious - that after encouraging the Celuien vote, Boro states his vote to be Legate. He doesn't actually go as far as really being partly responsible for her lynching, but he does act behind it. Obviously people can change their minds, but hey...that's what I got right now.

Edit: And just as I was wondering where Legate was...

It seems odd to me that Boro would stick to a Day 1 vote, particularly when his suspect wasn't even here toDay. I know that doesn't mean anything, but it seems more like something I'd do than Boro...or something...less "sensible" seeming. Or something.

[Roa_Aoife]

I refer the honourable lady to my post #218 and to the post referred to therein.

I assume what you refer to (which you never deigned to quote) is post #34, in which Rikae is almost enitrely in character, both when she accuses Mac and when she accuses you. The only not in-character thing she says is to agree with you about your plan. You, my dear, Saucey, read it mistakenly. (Similar to how you misread Volo's joke about Nogrod, Lommy, and Aganzir being the Vampires.) Or else you are intentionally spreading misinformation. I do not fail to note that you direct us to your post on the matter, and not the actual post in question. Very sneaky of you.

Roa, I agree with much of what you have said, but why do you feel so confident (as it appears) about Rikae?

I'm not at all confident of Rikae. Especially not after display post Eomer's trap. However, I will not simply oblige a mistaken case just because I also suspect a person. Only people who aren't thinking of the good of the village do that. If we are to find wolves, we must be objective. That includes discarding inaccurate points about someone we find suspicious.

You propose that we should be assured that argumernts can win the game so give us one then and do not hide behind far-fetched suppositions and speculative ideas! Quit making these "a vampire might have done this" things and give some evidence you're so happy to rely on at the level of rhetorics. You play only on the level of rhertoric and have nothing solid to go for - even though you call for optimism about the solid things we have... Cut the crap, please. And don't fool us any more.

Touchy, aren't we? My case, as you either intentionally or mistakenly misread, is not a "A vampire might have done this" case. It's a "You blatanly lied about someone and then tried to cover it up. This makes you suspicious," case. My case is not built on Far-fecthed suppositions, but on hard fact: what happened, and then what you said about what happened. I used almost entirely your quotes for it. No speculation necessary. I have pretty solid evidence in everything you've said. So you cut the crap and admit that you've been acting strangely- if you hadn't denied it so vehemently, I would have let it go.

I am the seer.

*sigh* I was supecting you were a gifted of some kind. I told you guys you didn't have a good case aginst her.


I don't have time to finish reading.

Rikae, dream for who you want (I'm a little surprised thar one us three was not your first choice) but I wouldn't mind getting dreamed- it'd be nice to shut Nogrod up about how I'm clearly evil because I dared to suspect him.

As for me, I will vote Nogrod. He just keeps looking worse- jumpy, over defensive, retaliatory, and just plain mean at some points. PLus despite finding me so clearly evil, he doesn't have me on his possible vote list.


Sorry about the lack of posting- I will explain on the Admin thread.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

anyways nevermind the timezone talk, I still think that it could be debated that we are undermining the mods divine rights, even if the mods decition is based on a misunderstanding.

Now of course there is no reason to stop, but maybe one ought to have guide lines for what to do in similar situations.

[Rikae]

actually scratch that Rikae, it's better you reveal all your info tomorrow
Yes, exactly...as I somehow think you would have known. :rolleyes:

As for suggestions on who to dream; I thought it might prove useful, later, to see what was suggested by whom.
I'm not going to reveal who I've actually chosen to dream about until tomorrow.

[The Saucepan Man]

Picking up on some comments from earlier:

I wonder why SPM calls Nogrod's vote a safe vote. With so many votes not given, the fake votes of the vampires and the course of the suspicions near the deadline, I too thought we had a good shot at lynching Legate.At the time Nogrod voted (right at the deadline), Legate had 1 stated vote, whereas Rikae had 3 and Celuien had 4. Other than you, no one else had given any indication that they might vote for him. Sorry, but it looks one of the safer votes to me.

Unless a vampire (who has a better idea about who the actual lynchee is than innocents do!) has a reason to fear for himself or one of his companions, I don't see why they shouldn't post the riddle. For them it's nothing but a calculated risk to have another innocent killed.Fair point. I was considering whether we might be able to draw conclusions on the Lynch Seer’s guilt or innocence from whether or not he or she posts a riddle. Perhaps, however, it is best to wait and see how things actually pan out each morning and then try to draw conclusions.

Maybe a vampire said that he/she would vote for a fellow vampire in public, but then actually cast his/her real vote for Celuien.No, the Vampires cannot vote. The missing Celuien vote was either cast by Glirdy (unlikely) or by someone who stated that they voted for someone else/did not vote. Most likely the Shade, in my view.

Isn't the Shade able to protect during Nights, too? What if the Ranger protects Rikae next Night and the Shade the following Night? This would win us one dream more.A good point, worth making. But we can’t rely on it. The Shade is playing the perecentage game. Hopefully he or she will see that, as matter stand, his/her best interests lie with siding with the innocents.

I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.A fair point, unless Rikae can get a good indication of who is likely to be lynched from the stated votes.

[Nogrod]

Durelin, you're just voicing my thoughts! All this stuff of Eomer's trap was pretty awkward to me as well - and later he even confessed there was no trap...

Also: I don't know if it would be clever to vote toDay for someone who Rikae is possibly going to dream of toNight, as we won't know who has been lynched until morning.Exactly! Spm, if I'm alive toMorrow I will ask a few questions from you but toDay I'm not wishing for your lynching. Let's be sensible here.

And let's add some names to Rikae's list of possible dream-candidates just as not to make it too easy for the vamps the next Night. So please Rikae consider also dreaming of Boro, Mac, Lommy at least - I have nothing against your initial list of three I would indeed love to find out either of the two and would be glad to be declared innocent as well - although that would mean getting killed pretty soon afterwards but whatever.

The fact that the wolves killed Brinniel last Night suggests to me that we have at least one vampire in that list of five I've suggested.

But let's see to it toMorrow.

And shade! This is your moment of glory! Protect one from the list while the ranger protects Rikae. That way we may have one more known innocent toMorrow.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1

Pretty spread votes...

I think Nogrod and Boro to be more on the innocent side, so I wouldn't want to vote for them.

I would only vote Gil or Shasta reluctantly.

Though I suspect Legate, he hasn't been here much today, so I would give him the benefit of doubt.

I therefore would prefer Menel.

[Aganzir]

Nogrod, if the Shade protects someone from Rikae's list, that means s/he couldn't protect Rikae the next Night. If I remembger correctly, the rules stated that the Shade can't do same thing two Nights in a row.

[Durelin]

Well, everyone's just stating their preferences, so I'm going to actually vote for my preference and hope for the best from the previous votes and the votes that are to come....

So, ++Boro and all that...

[Nogrod]

Oh my. Good point! The shade can't do the same thing twice in a row...

Okay shade. do not consider my suggestion any more.

[Rikae]

Somebody better vote for someone with two votes, or what I dream won't matter! :(

[Roa_Aoife]

++Nogrod

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Didn't read almost anything, but basically looking at the last page - so Rikae is a Seer and the most votes are now for her? I don't really have any evidence, but I might cast my vote in order to help someone get more votes over Rikae. Probably whatever it'd be, it'll be better than lynching the Seer. I'm probably going to look who's contesting her number of votes and vote him.

[The Saucepan Man]

I assume what you refer to (which you never deigned to quote) is post #34, in which Rikae is almost enitrely in character, both when she accuses Mac and when she accuses you.No, I was talking of her post #14, as I thought was perfectly clear from my post, in which she cast suspicion on me based upon my opening banter:

And what is this talk of "less developed characters" from Esspiem? I never quite trust someone who starts off with a joke about his or her own vulnerability, combined with a long speech reiterating the situation at hand. Obviously, it has little bearing now as far as Rikae is concerned, but I pick you up on it as you are seeking to use it to cast aspersions on my character.

[Thinlómien]

I think voting xyzzy would be of no use: it'd just spread the vote more and there wouldn't probably be enough support to get him lynched... I guess I'll vote Menel then, though I'm feeling a bid bad and loads unsure about it... I'll do a very quick Menel's today check...

[Roa_Aoife]

SPM you can vote Nogrod now, since he has two votes, and save our seer at the same time.

[Rikae]

Legate...you are. And so is Nogrod...and Menel, I think...

[Macalaure]

Rikae 2
Legate 2
Nogrod 2
Boro 2
Menel 1
Gil 1
Shasta 1

[Thinlómien]

No check needed and no time fort it. To play it safe (seer-wise) I'll vote Menel, as I find him slightly more suspicious than Legate.

[Macalaure]

Though I would prefer Menel, I will rather vote Legate than see Boro or Nogrod gone.

[Roa_Aoife]

No, I was talking of her post #14,

Sorry, typo. No, when I posted that, it was more to clear up the point about Rikae than to "cast asperations on your character."

Battery gone, have to go.

[The Saucepan Man]

Diamond: Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1)
Shasta: Gil (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1)
Kitanna: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2)
Rikae: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1)
Menel: Boro (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1)
Rune: Menel (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Boro: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Roa: Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Durelin: Boro (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 1)

This is ridiculous. We need to save Rikae!

Much as I counselled against saving votes until the last minute, I will hold my vote until it becaomes clearer who the "save Rikae" candidate is. It should be someone who curremtly has 2 stated votes. My preference is still Nogrod.

[Thinlómien]

Did it.

++MENEL

edit: mass xing

[Rikae]

Obviously, it has little bearing now as far as Rikae is concerned, but I pick you up on it as you are seeking to use it to cast aspersions on my character.
No, I was making a vague, in-character accusation in hopes of tricking a wolf into making too much of it, and simultaneously making an obscure joke.
My first post in my first WW game was exactly what I described - joking about my own death and a long description of the situation at hand - and I caught a lot of flack for it, I might add.
Ah, WWJ XII! Good times!

[Aganzir]

++ Menel

Let's seal this.

[Macalaure]

So be it:

++ Meneltarmacil

[The Saucepan Man]

Menel it is then.

++Meneltarmacil

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate...you are. And so is Nogrod...and Menel, I think...
So I'm going for Menel, he had stranger posts yesterday, at least more than Nog...

++Menel

EDIT: x-d with all from Rikae's last but one

[Nogrod]

++ Menel

it is then...

Have a good dream Rikae!

And it will be nice to read some of this last posting toMorrow. Please read carefully then.

[Durelin]

Six votes after mine...anyone could have been lynched.

Why doesn't anyone ever try and vote for who they really think is suspicious?

If Menel is by some miracle a vampire my foot will be in my mouth, but that would be a sucky way for a vampire to be killed, anyway.

Pfft. These "last minute settlings" are a new fad.

No, the game thread isn't technically closed yet...so there. :p

[Kath]

It is now. And there was me trusting you lot to shut up of your own accord. I won't make that mistake again.

Day 2 is over. No more posting. Anyone that hasn't sent in their dream/protection/hunt etc may do so now and the vampires may talk amongst themselves.

Night 3 begins.

[Kath]

The next half-period arrived, and at first glance it seemed that the night had been less busy than the last. But 5 among the villagers knew this was not the case.

~ ~ ~ ~

The vampires stood again upon the high tower, not speaking to each other for fear of another argument breaking out between them. They simply stood in the silent darkness, their vampire hearing allowing them to listen to the quiet breathing of the sleeping Men below.

Or perhaps not sleeping. Lossenatar was the first to notice the almost silent footsteps creeping around the small home the Men had made for themselves. Quickly he nudged Numundo and Firithhyando, motioning for them to listen too.

Their sharp eyes soon caught sight of a figure robed in black flitting among the various beds, apparently searching for something.

"What is it?" Numundo asked, but received only demands to be quiet in reply.

Suddenly the figure stopped and turned back on itself, heading with purpose toward one bed in particular. As it moved a glint of metal could be seen, a glint that soon turned into a full-blown sword that was raised above its unsuspecting victims chest.

The vampires held their unneeded breath and watched, knowing they couldn't reach the figure in time to stop it from killing whoever was under the blanket. But someone could.
A shadow so cloaked in the darkness that even the vampires hadn't been able to pick them out appeared before the armed figure.

"No." It said. "This one is protected."

The arm wielding the sword paused for a moment, and then pushed its weapon downwards with as much force as it could, only to find it's route blocked. With a snarl the figure turned on it's heel and ran, disappearing through the torchlit chambers. The protector looked down at their still sleeping charge and, with a smile, did the same.

~ ~ ~ ~

"They have protection!" Cried Numundo.

"And why shouldn't they?" Asked Lossenatar. "They are only Men, most without weapons, and entirely unaware of the dangers that could befall them here."

"Enihilion knew and Yulnagar allowed him to be killed. He had no protection. No, these humans will not be let off so lightly"

Before the others could give words of warning Numundo had set off again, his bat-like form swooping down.

This time his flight took him to Roa, the observer of people. She was asleep, her petite form curled tight to keep her body from feeling the cold.

Numundo watched as she shivered in her sleep and a devious thought came into his mind.

"If you want warmth my friend you will have to fetch it."

Roa's eyes opened, and if anybody had been there they would have seen that they were glazed over, for she wasn't truly awake. Just as Brinniel had, she heard a voice in her head, and it was so lovely that even the thought of not doing as it suggested made her feel ill. And so she went outside, picked up the torch that was burning just outside her house, and set it's flame to the wooden structure.

As the orange tongues licked their way up the side of the building she walked back into it and lay down on the bed, hugging the torch to her chest to keep warm.

Numundo watched in satisfaction. There would be no more protection this night.

~ ~ ~ ~

The time of reckoning again approached, and all but one of the Men were gathered by the clock as it struck and the Oracle arrived.

"Let us see if you have chosen any more wisely today.

”The archer great, a knight of old from the land of old. To the heart of fun half the arrows fly.”

"What's that you say, soldier?" Came a loud voice from the back of the crowd. "A war starting in far yonder lands? Well we'd best get over there quick hadn't we!"

And Menel came bursting through the ranks of his fellow villagers, intent upon making it out of the chamber, but the Oracle was in no mood to 'play' today.

"Stop!" It called, and Menel found himself obeying. "We will not have another scene like yesterdays. You have been chosen, you will die."

The watching villagers covered their faces with their hands, not wanting to witness another dreadful sight, but unable to avoid hearing the sickening crunching sounds. Collectively they counted to 10, and then gingerly uncovered their faces to find out Menel's fate.

The Oracle met their gazes as it slowly puffed on the ornate pipe in Enohl's mouth. The villagers looked confused for a moment, unable to work out what had happened, when suddenly Sleepy cried out in disgust.

"Ugh! You're ... you're smoking Menel! That's just horrible!"

A groan of dismay met his words as the others realised that he was right.

"That's it. I can't take this anymore. You lot can stay here and meet your doom if you like, I'm ending this now!"

He took off at a run and the villagers followed behind, wanting to put as much distance between them and the sick-minded Oracle as possible. They trailed Sleepy to the highest tower where, unbeknownst to most of them, the vampires had spent the night. They watched as he climbed to the top, and gasped as they realised what he was about to do.

"Don't do it!" They cried, but it was too late. Sleepy's form hurtled toward them, moving so fast they could barely hear his scream on the wind, and slammed into the ground before them.

Sickened they turned away, and then saw with dismay the burnt and blackened shell that had been the house of Roa. Slowly they made their way toward it, dreading what they were going to see next. The walls had been completely destroyed, so they crept carefully over the planks lying on the floor and made their way inside. But there was nothing to see, for all that was left of Roa was a pile of ash.

~ ~ ~ ~

Feeling thoroughly defeated the villagers made their way back to the square and despondently inquired of the Oracle whether any of the deaths so far had actually taken a vampire.

"No." It said, and with a final puff of it's pipe the Oracle left them to their talk.

~ ~ ~ ~

The living:


Gil-Galad (Gil)

The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)

Rikae

Boromir88 (Boro)

Nogrod

Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)

Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)

Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate)

Aganzir

Xyzzy

Macalaure (Mac)

Diamond18 (Di)

Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)

Kitanna

Durelin

Glirdan (Glirdy)

Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)

The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)


The dead:


Celuien (Cel) – Turned into a chair by the Oracle after being voted out on Day 1. Innocent.

Brinniel – Possessed by the Vampires to write poetry with her own blood on Night 2. Innocent.

Menel - Turned into a pipe by the Oracle after being voted out on Day 2. Innocent.

Roa - Possessed by the Vampires to torch herself on Night 3. Innocent.

Sleepy - Committed suicide by jumping off the highest tower on Night 3. Innocent.



DAY 3

All votes should still be sent to the gmail address, or PMed to me if you've cleared that with Volo.

You may now start talking.

[Rikae]

Oh no.

I'm afraid I don't have good news either.
My dream last night only revealed a second ordo.

I'm not sure whether I should reveal them or not.
I take it from the narration that the vampires thought Roa was the ranger, but she was not...
though she's still a great loss to us.

It also looks like the...shade tried to kill me last night?
So I can't count on his/her protection, that's for sure.
I don't know why the shade would want to kill me, though. Finding the werewolves is everyone's best chance for survival, including his or hers...

I suppose, since I certainly will be killed tonight, I'll have to reveal both innocents; though they can't both be protected. But before I do, I want your input...just in case I'm missing something.

[The Saucepan Man]

I suppose, since I certainly will be killed tonight, I'll have to reveal both innocents; though they can't both be protected. But before I do, I want your input...just in case I'm missing something.It looks that way. So, I can't see any reason not to reveal them.

I don't know why the shade would want to kill me, though. Finding the werewolves is everyone's best chance for survival, including his or hers...Possibly, the Shade was worried that you might reveal him or her. Still, at least we know that the Shade cannot try to kill again toNight. Perhaps he or she might be persuaded to protect you, although we cannot rely on it.

Here's yesterDay's "voting record":

Di: Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1)
Shasta: Gil (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1)
Kitanna: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 1)
Sixth: Rikae (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2)
Rikae: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1)
Menel: Boro (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1)
Rune: Menel (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Boro: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Roa: Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Durelin: Boro (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 1)
Lommiella: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 2)
Aganzir: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 3)
Mac: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 4)
Esspiem: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 5)
Legate: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 6)
Nogrod: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 7)

No stated vote: Eomer, Sleepy, Xyzzy, Glirdy

I would like to hear from Eomer and Xyzzy (and Glirdy, if he's still with us) as to whether they submitted a vote to the Oracle yesterDay and, if so, what it was.

I would also like to hear from the Lynch Seer (assuming it was not one who died) as to the number of votes cast for Menel, although perhaps after Eomer and Xyzzy at least have been given a chance to speak.

Some thoughts on the Celuien voting situation coming up.

[Nogrod]

I'm not sure whether I should reveal them or not.You shouldn't take those names to your grave with you... THey will have at least toDay and toMorrow to be with us.

And yes. It looks like the shade was on you, which I find pretty troubling...

[The Saucepan Man]

Roa was almost cetainly killed because she was dangerous to the Vampires (so much for them being sporting, eh, Noggie ...). It is possible that it was also an attempt to set up Nogrod, although it is also possible that he is a Vampire and the Roa kill was a bluff to make us think he was set up. I’m not pursuing that train of thought until Rikae reveals her dreams, though, as it is quite possible that she dreamed of him last Night.

Now, this Celuien vote. With only Glirdy not having stated a vote for Day 1, four people claimed to have voted for her and yet the Night 2 Lynch Seer, Eomer, told us that she received five votes.

As I see it, there are two possibilities. The first is that Eomer is a Vampire and told us that there were five votes for her in attempt to hide the fact that there were only three (as his would not have counted). However, that would require at least one of the stated Day 1 Legate voters also to be lying, since Celuien would have needed to be tied with him at least to have been chosen for death. I regard this situation as unlikely.

The other possibility is that Eomer was telling the truth and that there were five votes cast for Celuien. In which case, either it was Glirdy who cast the fifth vote for her (unlikely) or one of those who claimed to vote for someone else was lying and actually voted for Celuien. In these circumstances, it is virtually certain that all those who claimed to vote for Celuien actually did vote for her and are therefore innocent. Unfortunately one of those, Roa, is dead. But it speaks greatly in favour of Lomiella, Eomer and Aganzir.

[Thinlómien]

It indeed that the shade has taken the vampires' side, at least for now. That is not especially good news. Maybe he or she finds the baddies more intriguing - I mean, if I was the shade, I wouldn't necessarily be playing for the village, even though it'd be easier. I just hope he or she sees what is best to his or her own interest and changes sides... Or then he or she is just crazily switching sides from day to day just to amuse him/herself... Actually I wouldn't wonder if he or she was doing so... :rolleyes:

edit: xed with SPM

[Thinlómien]

Sauce, I think Roa was killed because the vampires maybe thought that Rikae would dream of Roa (or that she already had).

[The Saucepan Man]

Sauce, I think Roa was killed because the vampires maybe thought that Rikae would dream of Roa (or that she already had).Yes, fair point. And she was under less suspicion than Noggie and me, the other two from Rikae's original dream possibilities. In fact, I am not sure that anyone really suspected Roa that much. Nogrod made a weak case against her, but that was seemingly mainly in response to her suspicion of him.

I have had a brief review, and Roa's other suspects appear to have been Gil and Durelin and, possbly, me. But her main suspect was definately Noggin.

Given his weak case against her and her strong case against him, I am not sure at all that a Vampiric Nogrod would have chosen Roa as his kill.

[The Saucepan Man]

Reviewing yesterDay‘s “voting record“, it is quite possible that one (or possibly even two) of the Vampires was at risk of being lynched before the votes for Menel poured in and so a Vampire took the opportunity to state a vote for Menel in order to turn the votes against him. After all, we were all waiting to see who the best “save Rikae” candidate would be. And, with the “save Rikae” candidate likely to receive a lot of votes, it would have been less risky for a Vampire to be caught among them.

Something worth considering, possibly, as and when we have more information on the Menel voting situation.

[Nogrod]

Given his weak case against her and her strong case against him, I am not sure at all that a Vampiric Nogrod would have chosen Roa as his kill.
Roa's strong case? :rolleyes:

Saying something loudly and confidently doesn't make up a good case.

I would also wait for Rikae now (where are you?) as it's no use to put our energies to things we may know in a minute or two.

I'm going to be more active in an hour or two (after Lommy & her sis have left).

I'm still trying to think this a bit meanwhile.

And I agree with Spm here. It would have been very reasonable for a vampire to jump on the Menel bandwagon yesterDay if the vampire hadn't yet declared a vote. Someone who wouldn't have voted Menel at that time would have been looked at pretty closely toDay so the vampire was pretty much forced to vote Menel.

[The Saucepan Man]

Saying something loudly and confidently doesn't make up a good case.Well, it seemed to me that she had some very good points. But, as you say, perhaps Rikae can clear this up ...

[Thinlómien]

It just occured to me that one extra reason (not a very important reason, definitely) for the vampires to kill Roa might have been to disprove Nogrod's theory about "ethical wolves". But I'm not sure if this holds water, since Roa's surely not the only person you could kill in order to disprove the theory...

[Durelin]

Mac's vote for Menel conveniently placed. And just a little bit before the votes for him started piling in, he states, "Though I would prefer Menel, I will rather vote Legate than see Boro or Nogrod gone." Seems very buddy-buddying to me, as well as a nice "vote in favour" of Menel without actually saying he's voted for him. And it's another "I'd prefer," not, "I think he's suspicious," or "I really think he's a vampire."

As far as I can tell, he didn't pay much attention to Menel at all before that.

I'm probably voting for Mac today. Though Boro is far from forgotten...Boro seems to be acting almost a little too odd to me to be guilty, though.

I'll be back with more a little later... Yes, you must suffer without me for a while longer....

[Rikae]

I'm afraid I can't clear up the SPM/Nogrod question...as I didn't dream of either of you, though both of you look at least slightly questionable to me.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy and Durelin

[Durelin]

Ah, so you didn't dream of anyone on that trio you listed. Should've known... :D

[Thinlómien]

I'm afraid I can't clear up the SPM/Nogrod question...as I didn't dream of either of you, though both of you look at least slightly questionable to me.Can you still tell who you dreamed about? I mean, if you tell about it early, people don't need to speculate about those people... Or do you see some reason not to reveal them now or not to reveal them at all?

[Boromir88]

It seems odd to me that Boro would stick to a Day 1 vote, particularly when his suspect wasn't even here toDay.~Durelin
True, usually I don't do that, but sometimes I back away from my instincts and it turns out I was right. Last records I have I quickly jumped on Lal (who was a wolf) but backed away as she smooth talked me, and couldn't pull the trigger until a few days later. Than long long long time ago I voted for Formendacil 3 straight days on the 3rd he was finally lynched and turned out to be a wolf...oh and neither time did I have any special knowledge of their wolvishness :D .

When I find something that comes to me as guilty I'm gonna go after it and I won't let up on Legate until I know for sure his identity...either until he turns up dead or if Rikae happened to dream him innocent.

Which leads me to asking Rikae to reveal her 2 known innocents. Any further info will be a great help. We are down to 18 and for today we have 1 already known innocent and potentially 2 more.

A quick comment to Thinlo regarding Shasta. This is the first time Shasta has been involved in WW with us, but don't think he's new at this by any means...post 203 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519546&postcount=203) for one example.

[Rikae]

Boromir88 and Macalaure are innocent.

[Durelin]

Hah. :rolleyes:

[Gil-Galad]

Well so far it is being broken dead-even... the more innocents we learn of the closer we get ot the vampires though

And I agree with Spm here. It would have been very reasonable for a vampire to jump on the Menel bandwagon yesterDay if the vampire hadn't yet declared a vote. Someone who wouldn't have voted Menel at that time would have been looked at pretty closely toDay so the vampire was pretty much forced to vote Menel.

so basically we look at who voted for Menel and who didn't vote...

i am still podnering about Shasta/Legate pair, so maybe Rikae, if you could dream one of them that could help us determine where both of them lie, if one of them turns out to be the vampire, then we got 2 vampires bagged

[Rikae]

i am still podnering about Shasta/Legate pair, so maybe Rikae, if you could dream one of them that could help us determine where both of them lie, if one of them turns out to be the vampire, then we got 2 vampires baggedwell, you see, Gil, the thing about that is...
I'm not going to be having any more dreams.
The shade is not on our side. He/she tried to kill me last night.
Tonight...I'm dead.

[Diamond18]

Now, this Celuien vote. With only Glirdy not having stated a vote for Day 1, four people claimed to have voted for her and yet the Night 2 Lynch Seer, Eomer, told us that she received five votes.

As I see it, there are two possibilities. The first is that Eomer is a Vampire and told us that there were five votes for her in attempt to hide the fact that there were only three (as his would not have counted). However, that would require at least one of the stated Day 1 Legate voters also to be lying, since Celuien would have needed to be tied with him at least to have been chosen for death. I regard this situation as unlikely.

I agree that this is unlikely... if Eomer were a vampire trying to "look good" I don't see this as a good plan, because the discrepancy is easily noted. Unless I'm missing something, the best tactic for a Vampiric Lynch Seer would be to just keep completely quiet about the subject.

The other possibility is that Eomer was telling the truth and that there were five votes cast for Celuien. In which case, either it was Glirdy who cast the fifth vote for her (unlikely) or one of those who claimed to vote for someone else was lying and actually voted for Celuien. In these circumstances, it is virtually certain that all those who claimed to vote for Celuien actually did vote for her and are therefore innocent. Unfortunately one of those, Roa, is dead. But it speaks greatly in favour of Lomiella, Eomer and Aganzir.

I'm confused as to why someone who voted for Celuien would have lied about it. Only Innocents can vote, right? So why would you vote for one person (as is your right as an innocent) but say you voted for someone else? So... why is it unlikely that Glirdy voted for Celuien and that's why there is an unaccounted-for vote? That seems to make the most sense, because it doesn't involve an innocent lying for no apparent reason.

[Macalaure]

I don't have very much time toDay, but I'll do what I can. Just a quick thing before I'm off to go through the thread again to see clearer.

Mac's vote for Menel conveniently placed.Why was my vote for Menel more conveniently placed than SPM's, Nogrod's or Legate's?

And just a little bit before the votes for him started piling in, he states, "Though I would prefer Menel, I will rather vote Legate than see Boro or Nogrod gone."I wanted to save Rikae while not getting Boro or Nogrod killed. Legate was the only one who had two votes, too, but Menel looked more suspicious to me.

And it's another "I'd prefer," not, "I think he's suspicious," or "I really think he's a vampire.""I'd prefer" means to me that I thought Menel more suspicious than Legate. They were both suspicious to a good degree. If I had gone with my top suspicion I would have voted SPM and thrown my vote away by it.

As far as I can tell, he didn't pay much attention to Menel at all before that.He was my second best suspect on Day One.


I'm aware there's little point for a known innocent to defend himself. I'm just pointing out the above because it's hard for me to think this coming from an innocent mouth.

[Durelin]

I'm aware there's little point for a known innocent to defend himself. I'm just pointing out the above because it's hard for me to think this coming from an innocent mouth.

*snort*

You just cannot imagine someone finding you suspicious... I still find you suspicious, but I guess I have to assume you're innocent.

Oh sigh.

But yes, actually - yours was more conveniently placed. Smack dab in the middle. Though trust me, I don't like SPM's vote, either. Nogrod, as the last vote, was needlessly piling it on. I see Nogrod's as in an inconvenient position, and so more innocent.

Actually, you could be right about SPM's vote. Still, your only argument is that your vote isn't any less conveniently placed than their votes, which doesn't mean yours isn't conveniently placed.

Whatever.

Hmm...I haven't voted for SPM in a while...oh wait, yes I have, nevermind.... :D

[The Saucepan Man]

Typical! Just as I was beginning to think Mac looked suspicious, he turns out to be a known innocent. :rolleyes:

I'm confused as to why someone who voted for Celuien would have lied about it. Only Innocents can vote, right?No. The Shade can vote, as Aganzir correctly pointed out to me on Day 1.

So... why is it unlikely that Glirdy voted for Celuien and that's why there is an unaccounted-for vote? That seems to make the most sense, because it doesn't involve an innocent lying for no apparent reason.Because Glirdy has not spoken a word since we started. I think it unlikely that he has cast a vote.

In any event, the Celuien vote thing reassures me about Eomer, Lommiella and Aganzir. I am, for now, going to work on the basis that they are innocent. And Rikae, Mac and Boro we know to be innocent (unless Rikae is playing a very dangerous game, a possibility which I regard as highly unlikely).

Why was my vote for Menel more conveniently placed than SPM's, Nogrod's or Legate's? It wasn't. Unless the Lynch Seer (if still alive) is able to confirm that the apparent votes for Menel match the actual votes for him, I think it fairly likely that either Nogrod or Legate (though probably not both) is a Vampire.

[Nogrod]

Boro and Mac then. Good to hear that.

And to open this game a bit more:

I'm the Hunter.

I have thought this through a couple of times and think this is a reasonable moment to reveal myself. We now have four known innocents and that makes the choice of the lynchee somewhat easier.

(Roa was right in one point. I have played a bit strangely because I have not been able to voice my strongest suspicions)

I have had two strong suspicions from Day1 onwards. Boro was one... I must admit. :rolleyes:

But happily he was the one I was a bit more insecure about.

And no Spm, you're not the other one. I may have my suspicions of you but nothing so good as to hunt you yet.

The voting on Day1 is twisted in part because of me. I voted Rikae and not Legate. As the hunter I may need to lie about my vote or of my suspicions as I hope you understand.

I also hope you understand my reasons to stay quiet about my primary suspicions. I will try to help to find the vamps as well as I can but my top suspicions I will leave to myself. You'll find out my prime target when I die.

EDIT: X'd with Spm

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

hehe that collective beating of Menel was not something I suspected would happen when I voted for him. . .most interesting, possibly a reaction to Rikae's possible lynching.

Anyways I am glad that he is gone, this should make me ablse direct my focus eslewhere and by elsewhere I of course mean Durelin.

I would like to say Nogrod as well, but he has a special status after his Hunter stunt.

[Macalaure]

You just cannot imagine someone finding you suspicious... I still find you suspicious, but I guess I have to assume you're innocent.I welcome every good point against me? :p


I've been looking over the thread again, and still the Saucepan Man is the only one who really sticks out to me.


Add the following to him being one of the greatest chasers of Rikae, putting in a doubtful vote for Kitanna on Day One and my previous points:


- His devoted concern about the voting record is a good thing, of course. But then, it is also a good way for a vampire to appear more helpful as he really is. Keep in mind that a vampire has a better knowledge about whether a voting record is helpful to the village / detrimental to the vampires or not.

- I don't really like the way of his accusations of Rikae. It's not his joking with it, but the way that he has no doubts about it and fails to see anything that spoke against her being evil.

- In #181 he says we shouldn't leave our votes to the last minutes, yet that is what he does and his admitting it doesn't change the fact. He was so determined to save Rikae, on the surface. He said he wanted to wait and see who the save-Rikae-candidate is: Why didn't he just make someone into it?

- Nogrod might not always be right (note euphemism ;) ), but I don't like the way SPM discredits his points succinctly.



Besides all this, I think that Rune is being strange.


edit: Nogrod's the hunter! Which one? ;)

[Rikae]

I'm the Hunter.

I have thought this through a couple of times and think this is a reasonable moment to reveal myself. We now have four known innocents and that makes the choice of the lynchee somewhat easier.
For some reason, I'm just not buying this...:rolleyes:

[Diamond18]

Oh hey, my post made it through. The wireless I was using at the time chose the very moment I hit "send" to disappear into the ether and so I thought (in a snit) that I would have to rewrite it. That was actually going to be a good thing, since as I was driving the point about the Shade lying about his/her vote occured to me and I wouldn't have asked the question, but que sera sera.

At any rate, I am now at my parents' house using their dialup. I don't know how long I'm going to be sticking around -- it depends on whether or not they're going to feed me, I think -- but I have a few hours or so of leisure. I will probably be voting with the next 6 hours and then going silent until the next Day.

So. Who to vote for? Well, the people who not to vote for are:

Rikae
Mac
Boro
Nogrod (unless another Hunter shows up to contest his claim)

I also find Eomer very likely innocent. It would be nice to hear from last night's lynch seer, as that would give us another likely innocent and a number of votes for Menel.

I am not feeling overly suspicious of Sauce but that in itself seems alarming as I'm always suspicious of him. I've been known to pursue innocent SpM with rabid fervor. :rolleyes:

Durelin seems odd. Why argue with Mac after he's been declared innocent? Just to be cantakerous? The only reason to suspect Mac is if you don't trust Rikae is the Seer, but surely if she were an imposter she would have been challenged openly by now?

[Diamond18]

For some reason, I'm just not buying this...:rolleyes:

Hmmm... Evil-Nogrod does have a history of impersonating Gifteds. Say he is doing it again. What's the plot? To draw out the "real" Hunter? To cause confusion? To save himself? *sigh* It's easier for me to just believe him for the time being, unless and until someone dramatically posts "I am ze hunter, thou spawn of bats, *slap slap*!!"

BTW, Durelin, can you explain your "Hah :rolleyes:" from earlier? Right after Rikae declared Mac and Boro innocent? I don't quite understand what was "hah" about it.

[Boromir88]

BTW, Durelin, can you explain your "Hah " from earlier? Right after Rikae declared Mac and Boro innocent? I don't quite understand what was "hah" about it.~Di
Probably because Mac and myself were Durelin's biggest suspects.

Well Nogrod could be the Hunter and not be lying...he could be the vampire hunter, but for now I trust him as the true Hunter.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think it was because she had just made a point out of suspecting Mac and then our seer shows up and say "you know that one guy you find suspicouse. . he is innocent"

What can you say to that?

[Durelin]

BTW, Durelin, can you explain your "Hah " from earlier? Right after Rikae declared Mac and Boro innocent? I don't quite understand what was "hah" about it.

Just a few posts before that the only two people I said anything about suspicion-wise (or really at all) were Boro and Mac.

I am sorry if no one can perceive my uber skillz in the art of wit.

[Nogrod]

Thanks Mac for your point on Spm's interest in the vote tallies... I had already thought there was something that bothered me in them.

As I see it, there are two possibilities. The first is that Eomer is a Vampire and told us that there were five votes for her in attempt to hide the fact that there were only three (as his would not have counted). However, that would require at least one of the stated Day 1 Legate voters also to be lying, since Celuien would have needed to be tied with him at least to have been chosen for death. I regard this situation as unlikely.I'm not sure if I followed the argument well enough (I'll take a look at it in a minute) but as long as Eomer's chance of being a vampire rests on someone lying about voting Legate then the option is still on as I did lie about my vote to keep the vampires off my real thoughts then.

Now Spm didn't know that I had lied - and thence went on to try and cleanwash his buddy?

And he continued later on the topic:In any event, the Celuien vote thing reassures me about Eomer, Lommiella and Aganzir. I am, for now, going to work on the basis that they are innocent.Taken together all his discussions on the Celuien-voters looks like drawing a bit too lot of comfort from one quite unsure source of information. And why he keeps coming back to that Day1 voting stuff again and again unless it's something that works for his interests?


Besides all this, I think that Rune is being strange. Agreed. But I always find him hard to read. The only thing we know of him is that he at least wished people to look at him as the shade on Day1. Whether that was a joke of somekind or what, I don't know.

I see no good reason for anyone innocent to act like a shade.

I might see a reason for the shade to make his presence known hoping that both sides would then leave him be (but that's in dark contrast to our shade trying to kill Rikae last Night - although there were basically no chances in him succeeding in it anyhow, so why then even try?)

I might see a reason for one of the vampires to pose as the shade as well but then last Night's action would be quite too reckless from him.

EDIT: X'd with a lot...

[Durelin]

You know, I could see Saucie being the uber shade. I mean, everyone suspects him of being a wolf, vampire, whatever, all the time...but who would suspect him as a stand-alone shade, were-bear. It just seems so vastly different.

And I can see Sauce attempting to off Rikae, taking the risk of catching the Ranger "bluffing" so to speak.

Though I can see a number of people doing that purely out of their sense of humour.

Personally I find it hilarious that anyone would think the Shade would side with anyone, even for a limited period of time.

[Nogrod]

I might see a reason for one of the vampires to pose as the shade as well but then last Night's action would be quite too reckless from him.An interesting possibility opened to me as I realised I had miswritten this last part... (and produced a totally stupid idea).

But what if Rune is a vampire posing as a shade and now our real shade who is leaning on our side wishes to expose him by making the shade look our enemy? Remember it was pretty safe trial to kill Rikae as she had been suspected a lot earlier so she very probably was not protected earlier.

It would make sense as - on contrary to Dury's idea - it seems pretty straightforward that the shade has best possibilities to win by aiding the villagers. It's only in the end when switching loyalties might help the shade.

[Boromir88]

Personally I find it hilarious that anyone would think the Shade would side with anyone, even for a limited period of time.
I find it funnier that no one except the same 5 or so people have a desire to say something...I mean anything at all. I think I might start following Nogrod's plan and just lynch people who refuse to talk. I say we start with Legate. :p

And Nogrod if you are the Hunter (which I think you are) you might have shot yourself in the foot. See a reason I was jumpy to get Rikae to name her innocent yesterday was because I had a feeling it was me, and I just wanted to get knuckle-heads like Menel (oh rest his soul) and Durelin off my back. If I was one of the dreams and everyone than knew that I was planning on posing as the Hunter to give the real one a bit of cover...but I guess I can't do that now. Thanks, I was going to sacrifice myself and become a martyr...now I'm going to just get ripped apart in my sleep soon and probably not have a clue who the vampires are because no one wants to talk.

I say we do it this way...any innocent villager say 'aye' and whoever doesn't say 'aye' must be a vampire.

Let me start:

"Aye"

[Nogrod]

Hmmm... Evil-Nogrod does have a history of impersonating Gifteds. Say he is doing it again. What's the plot? To draw out the "real" Hunter? To cause confusion? To save himself? *sigh*No plot this time Di. It would be just plain suicidal for a vampire to impersonate the hunter. There would be another claim and then the impersonator would face certain death. Even if the villagers would decide to check the real hunter by lynching him the impersonator would die in his hands at the same time or then the villagers might just manage to choose the impersonator to check him. Anyway. Fast and certain death.

EDIT: X'd with Boro

[Diamond18]

Just a few posts before that the only two people I said anything about suspicion-wise (or really at all) were Boro and Mac.

I am sorry if no one can perceive my uber skillz in the art of wit.

Sorry. My reading comprehension skills are pretty bad for a librarian. Heh.

But what if Rune is a vampire posing as a shade and now our real shade who is leaning on our side wishes to expose him by making the shade look our enemy? Remember it was pretty safe trial to kill Rikae as she had been suspected a lot earlier so she very probably was not protected earlier.

It would make sense as - on contrary to Dury's idea - it seems pretty straightforward that the shade has best possibilities to win by aiding the villagers. It's only in the end when switching loyalties might help the shade.

Er, so you're saying perhaps the Shade was trying to do GOOD by attempting to kill our Seer? That seems... awfully fancy. Right now I think it makes a lot more sense to just assume that the Shade isn't on the side of the innocents.

[Durelin]

It would make sense as - on contrary to Dury's idea - it seems pretty straightforward that the shade has best possibilities to win by aiding the villagers. It's only in the end when switching loyalties might help the shade.

What's to say the Shade wants to play it safe?

Alright, since it seems to be a fad now, this revealing roles bit, I have an announcement to make...

I'm afraid I am your...

Cannon-fodder, at your service.

I could go for Boro's lynching the quiet ones. I'd prefer starting with xyzzy, Shasta, or Eomer.

Oh, and I kid, Di, I kid...I really don't make sense.

[Nogrod]

And Nogrod if you are the Hunter (which I think you are) you might have shot yourself in the foot.
.................
If I was one of the dreams and everyone than knew that I was planning on posing as the Hunter to give the real one a bit of cover...but I guess I can't do that now. Thanks for the nice idea. But I still think the Hunter is the last one who needs covering as he can fight back on his own and that makes the vampires a bit uneasy of killing him - I mean basically they can just let the hunter live to the end winning with numbers. Therefore he's almost more a pain in the arse to the vampires when laying open as they need to count what is the worth of making a go against him as there could be retaliation making the vamp's work of winning much harder.

[Diamond18]

No plot this time Di. It would be just plain suicidal for a vampire to impersonate the hunter. There would be another claim and then the impersonator would face certain death. Even if the villagers would decide to check the real hunter by lynching him the impersonator would die in his hands at the same time or then the villagers might just manage to choose the impersonator to check him. Anyway. Fast and certain death.

Indeed. Which is why I'm inclined to trust you.

What's to say the Shade wants to play it safe?

Alright, since it seems to be a fad now, this revealing roles bit, I have an announcement to make...

I'm afraid I am your...

Cannon-fodder, at your service.

Are you saying you're the Shade?

I could go for Boro's lynching the quiet ones. I'd prefer starting with xyzzy, Shasta, or Eomer.

What about Glirdan? Isn't he going to be suicided soon?

[Aganzir]

It would be just plain suicidal for a vampire to impersonate the hunter. There would be another claim and then the impersonator would face certain death.
Unless the Vampire Seer has dreamed of the real Hunter, who has been revealed to be eg. Glirdan or someone other silent. Then, were Nogrod a Vampire (hunter?), this wouldn't be very risky. And if someone claimed to be the real Hunter and Nogrod was lynched, he could kill Rikae, too. Unlikely, but not totally impossible.


Er, so you're saying perhaps the Shade was trying to do GOOD by attempting to kill our Seer?
The Shade apparently wanted to tell the Vampires that s/he wouldn't be protecting Rikae next Night. Now the Vampires will probably attack Rikae, and if the Shade protects her anyway, there will be no kill. At least we know that the Shade can't kill anyone next Night, so maybe the known innocents may sleep peacefully.

I don't think either of these options are very probable, and at the moment I'm ready to trust Noggie. I still wanted to bring them up, and am sorry that I'm mixing things up this much.

[Nogrod]

Er, so you're saying perhaps the Shade was trying to do GOOD by attempting to kill our Seer? That seems... awfully fancy.Fancy maybe, but logical. I could name a few who could do it.

So you see your best interest as a shade (to be on the villagers side).

You see someone impersonating your role and thence will know that that one is no good for us.

You realise that the Seer is going to be protected so you could attack her safely to make people wishing to lynch the one they think is the shade.

Nice, isn't it? :)

At least I would love to try and make a trap to someone who impersonated my role...

But I would suggest that we do not vote for Rune toDay. If the shade is playing wisely s/he will protect Rikae toNight and we will have one more dream - and the more reasons to lynch Rune toMorrow. Understanably if the shade doesn't protect Rikae s/he's acting against her/his own good and also the case against Rune must be reconsidered.



I'm pretty frustrated with the silent ones as well. There are so many people I would wish to hear something from.

Please speak up!

EDIT: X'd with Di and Aganzir

[Durelin]

Okay, now that really did look bad.

Cannon fodder is supposed to = ordo.

Aganzir - Very good point about the possibility of the Vampire Seer dreaming of the Hunter....

[Nogrod]

Three days absence -> death.
Glirdan has this Day (and Night) time to come alive.I think posting this here is quite legal as it concerns the rules of this game.

I just find that little add-on quite interesting. So why has he also the Night to appear as no one innocent-ordo can't do anything at Night and so his time to call in ends as this Day ends?

And clearly Glirdan is none of our gifteds or the shade as they have played. So that leaves only the possibility that he's a vamp...?

Of course I may read too much into Volo's adding the Night there but why then it is there?

[Aganzir]

I thought "Night" might be there because we won't know who are killed until morning, and if Glirdan lets Volo or Kath know that he's around and wants to play, he won't be killed in the morning. Interesting observation, though.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

woohoo things are happening!

Nogrod you are absolutely delightfull, mindbogingly twisted. . .(I do not know how to spell that)

To think that the shade first of all is on our side and only tries to kill Rikae to make me look bad and furthermore thinks that people naturaly will kill me if the shade suddenly seems evil, is probably the most far out theory I have heard in a long time. I simply love it!

Honestly Nogrod had you said that before your Hunter revelation, then I would have called for you emidiate execution. But I will let it be, because there is the slight chance that now when you feel more secure that you are not getting lynched, actually have the guts to speak openly about your more "special" theories.

I mean we all have had crazy ideas that we have not put forth in fear of being lynched. . .or is that just me? I have often thought that it would be interesting to vote for the person you least suspect since we are so often wrong anyway.

Let me just say that I belive the shade tried to kill Rikae because there was a chance of her reavealing who the shade was. . . We should never count on the shade, the shade in on no-ones side, but its own.

[Nogrod]

Just a minute!

The ranger may protect Rikae every other Night:
The person the Ranger protects won’t die if a Vampire or the Shade tries to kill him/her. Can't protect the same person twice in a row

The shade that sides with us villagers can protect Rikae every other Night as well.:
To survive the Shade has the skills of the Ranger, Seer and Vampire, this means that the Shade can either protect (The Shade is an exeption in the Ranger category as it can't protect itself!), dream or kill during the night, but can’t do the same thing twice in a row.

And as our Ranger protected Rikae last Night the shade can do it the next and then it's our ranger's turn to protect her and...

:smokin:

Surely this gives the game a new twist! It will be the vamps trying to spot our ranger and the shade against Rikae trying to spot the vamps. Whichever gets there first gives her/his side the keys to victory.

I think you Rikae might live for a few Days still. :cool:

[Boromir88]

That is, if the Shade thinks it's in his/her best interest.

[Diamond18]

I really don't like this idea of trusting/hoping for the Shade to be on our side.

[Nogrod]

Mr./Ms. Shade!

Please read this.

As there seem to be some people who don't see the evident fact let me spell it out just in case you're one of them who don't see it. And my apologies from giving you advices in case you don't need them. :rolleyes:

At the moment your chances of winning at the side of the villagers are something like 3:1. A pretty good one.

We need to kill three vamps and we can afford losing about 10 of us pretty easily doing that without the situation turning so much as to make you rethink where your loyalties should be. And with this double protection scheme we will have one Dream every Night. With all the probabilities we should also start getting the vamps lynched as well and I will take one out if they come to me. So good chances if you stick to our side and it will not probably take that long (ten dead) in any case.

Think of how many Nights you will have to avoid both us and the vamps if you do not join us and try to play in the hands of the vamps!


Btw. I first thought this 100% security on Rikae as long as both the shade and ranger do live was a mixed situation as I thought that it would take out some of the suspense from the game. But now I'm pretty confident this will be quite interesting indeed!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I do not think you are being fair Nogrod.

As I saw it people understood what you where saying perfectly, but they see no point in putting their trust in the shade when the shade could change sides anytime s/he sees it fit.

That is not saying that we do not get the point about both the shade and the ranger protecting our seer, it goes without saying that we all like the thought of that.

[Diamond18]

As long as I'm talking about things I don't like -- I am rather concerned about the whole Modfire business. We've already lost Sleepy and if we lose Glirdan (and possibly Legate, see admin thread) that's more and more people dying in addition to the regular way. If Glirdan and Legate are innocent, the "Village" is looking to lose out and that rather sucks. I think we need to start seriously thinking about what, if anything, we are going to do about this.

Do we vote to lynch those in danger of suicide? I mean, I may not find them particularly suspicious, but if it's a case of them dying anyway, making them the lynch victim minimizes the sheer number of losses. On the other hand, if we actually lynch Vampires instead, that's much better. But are we confident enough in our suspicions as to who the vamps are? That's the question.

[Diamond18]

As I saw it people understood what you where saying perfectly, but they see no point in putting their trust in the shade when the shade could change sides anytime s/he sees it fit.

Quite right. So what I'm saying is, can we just forget about this whole "tell the Shade what to do" business and concentrate instead on figuring out who to lynch? Right now I really don't know who to vote for. I was going to vote Nogrod until the Hunter reveal. Now I'm torn between voting for Glirdan (whom I don't really suspect, but may die anyway) and... well I don't know.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

As long as I'm talking about things I don't like -- I am rather concerned about the whole Modfire business. We've already lost Sleepy and if we lose Glirdan (and possibly Legate, see admin thread) that's more and more people dying in addition to the regular way. If Glirdan and Legate are innocent, the "Village" is looking to lose out and that rather sucks. I think we need to start seriously thinking about what, if anything, we are going to do about this.

Do we vote to lynch those in danger of suicide? I mean, I may not find them particularly suspicious, but if it's a case of them dying anyway, making them the lynch victim minimizes the sheer number of losses. On the other hand, if we actually lynch Vampires instead, that's much better. But are we confident enough in our suspicions as to who the vamps are? That's the question.This is a tought one. . .I do like the whole idea about "damage controll" but it would also be quite a gamble as we would not really be looking for people to lynch and make the whole buisness a lot easier for the vampires.

I could also belive that a lot of people would have a problem with voting for people they do not really suspect.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I believe someone called me quiet, up there.

I had a reason to be, yesterday. It was my senior prom. :P

I have skimmed all the posts, and will be back later with something to chew on, but right now I have to get ready for work.

Edit: Oh, I remember what I wanted to draw attention to; Sleepy's death. Why'd he die?

[Nogrod]

As I saw it people understood what you where saying perfectly, but they see no point in putting their trust in the shade when the shade could change sides anytime s/he sees it fit.What do you mean by "putting our trust in the shade"? How does it hurt you to hope that the shade acts reasonably as it doesn't require any action from you? I can't see you point (or Di's).

I don't know who the shade is. If Spm is the shade, or Lommy, or someone like them they will immediately see the situation and know how to act and my worries have been in vain. But if the shade doesn't see the situation correctly s/he might act against her/his own good - and thence also against us. The last one surely is something we wish to avoid, now isn't it? So all those who try to spread a feeling that it might be advisable for the shade to side with the vamps are purely hurting us and our case. They could be seen as advising the shade to act differently... and we know who are the ones that would hope the shade to side with them... :eek:

I hope the shade has reason enough to see through this. We'll see it toMorrow morning anyhow.

The shade surely has a chance to win with the vamps if it's alive when there are only a few players left (depending on how many vamps there are then). It's a long way to duck nightly kills and lynchings... so her/his best bet now is on us. Let's hope it never gets to the situation where the shade would have an actual place of rethinking it's position.

[Nogrod]

As long as I'm talking about things I don't like -- I am rather concerned about the whole Modfire business. We've already lost Sleepy and if we lose Glirdan (and possibly Legate, see admin thread) that's more and more people dying in addition to the regular way.If we don't have a good shared candidate toDay, lynching Glirdan might be a good choice indeed. Not the least as there was this funny thing about the next Night being a possibility for Glirdy to show up I wondered earlier.

EDIT: #379 is the place

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Well, Nogrod you seem to have put your trust into the shade being on our side even yesterday, at least that was your argumentation for "Rune = False Shade" and again now it dominates your theories. All that we are saying is that we cannot be sure what the shade does! It might very well, be that defending Rikae is the best option for the shade, but is it not right that some people like to go for the dificult solutions sometimes?

So all those who try to spread a feeling that it might be advisable for the shade to side with the vamps are purely hurting us and our case. They could be seen as advising the shade to act differently... and we know who are the ones that would hope the shade to side with them... ubb/eek.gif
Maybe I am mis-understanding something, but I do not like the way this looks. If this is a comment about what me and Di have statet, then I do not think it is fair argumentation. Then you are saying that people who inform that it is not sertain that the shade does as you want it to is most likely vampires. Then one might as well say "You are either with me or agains us"
That sort of argumentation where you try to potray the others as "traitors" is nothing, but a cheap trick.

[Diamond18]

What do you mean by "putting our trust in the shade"? How does it hurt you to hope that the shade acts reasonably as it doesn't require any action from you? I can't see you point (or Di's).

I can't speak for Rune but I was just getting a bit frustrated that we were concentrating more on speculating what the Shade could do than talking about what we can do. In the end, the Shade is going to do what he/she wants and thinks best and it's up to the rest of us to Lynch people. Anyway, mainly I'm just frustrated with the lack of a good lynch candidate today. I feel almost forced to vote for Glirdan but I'm not happy with the thought.

[Diamond18]

I just need to put this down to clear my own thoughts:

The list of people still around...

Gil-Galad (Gil)
The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)
Rikae
Boromir88 (Boro)
Nogrod
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)
Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate)
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Macalaure (Mac)
Diamond18 (Di)
Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)
Kitanna
Durelin
Glirdan (Glirdy)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)
The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)

[Aganzir]

Let's lynch Glirdan only if we don't have a better choice.

I don't think we need to discuss more about what the Shade will do next Night. Either s/he protects Rikae or not, but we probably can't do anything about it.

It would also be nice to hear what the Lynch Seer can say about Menel's lynching. Unless someone is lying (or accidentally forgetting to tell s/he was the Lynch Seer) we are left with those who haven't posted toDay:
Eomer
Legate
Xyzzy
Shasta
Kitanna
Glirdan
Sixth
of which anyone could have been the LS. I include Shasta to the list although he made one post, because he didn't actually say anything in the post.

Anyway, it's 1 AM here and I'm off to sleep. Will be back in less than 12 hours, hopefully, as I haven't slept long enough for too many nights.

edit: xed with Di.

[Kitanna]

I just wanted to come by for a minute or two. I'll be free to completely look over the thread in an hour or two. For now I'm not sure I like focusing on the Shade. There are more important issues I think. I believe we should be suggesting dreams to Rikae and deciding who is most likely a vampire, rather than worrying if the shade is going to be with or against us.

That said, what are the chances of Glirdan not becoming "suicidal" tonight?

[Nogrod]

Funny how we seem to be doing the same things...

So our innocents are:
Rikae – The Seer
Nogrod – The Hunter
Boromir88 (Boro) – an innocent
Macalaure (Mac) – an innocent


Then there are those more actively playing "veterans" whom are easier to suspect but who normally might also be of a great help to a village:
The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)
Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)
Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate)
Diamond18 (Di)
Durelin
Gil-Galad (Gil)
Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)


Then there are the less active veterans who are harder to pin down and thence more frightful:
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)
Kitanna
Glirdan (Glirdy) - who's possibly facing a modfire

Of the newer players I would say that Aganzir plays greatly and I would'n like to vote for her just because of her good points (even though she has said very little anything definitive or concrete and later on thay might start to mean something).

That leaves the enigmas:
Xyzzy
The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)
Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)

Feel free to disagree with my categories...

At this point of the game I might suggest lynching one from either the category of the "quieter veterans" (Eomer, Kitanna, Glirdy) or of the "newer enigmas" (Xyzzy, The Sixth, Shasta).

My hunted one is not among these six but we need three vampires anyhow... :)

I'm off to sleep as well.

[Rikae]

Let's lynch Nogrod.

If he's really the hunter, he, being a very clever player, will probably take a wolf with him...and he will also be proven innocent.
If he is not the hunter, he's certainly a vampire.
In either case, we benefit.

++Nogrod

[The Saucepan Man]

His devoted concern about the voting record is a good thing, of course. But then, it is also a good way for a vampire to appear more helpful as he really is.Yes, it would be, if I did not also seek to analyse it. I would prefer that you judge me on my analyses of the votes, rather than simply by the fact that I state them (it is, in any event, traditional for me to do so :D ).

I don't really like the way of his accusations of Rikae. It's not his joking with it, but the way that he has no doubts about it and fails to see anything that spoke against her being evil.What can I say? I truly believed her highly likely to be a Vampire until the moment she revealed. I have a long history of suspecting Seers ... :rolleyes:

He was so determined to save Rikae, on the surface. He said he wanted to wait and see who the save-Rikae-candidate is: Why didn't he just make someone into it?It would have been Nogrod, had I done so, but I could see that few others were likely to vote for him.

I'm the Hunter.Well, then Noggins. If your claim is to be believed, then I think that Legate could be one of our Vampires (subject to what, if any, Lynch Seer information we receive). I will believe your claim for now, but I will nevertheless remain wary until there has been sufficient opportunity for an opposing claim to be put forward.

Your point about it being in the Shade’s interests to protect Rikae is a good one, though, and speaks in your favour. I hope that the Shade sees the sense in it. We will probably know one way or the other after the coming Night, in any event.

And given that we will know toMorrow, I am not sure that I like the way that Rune carried the argument on.

I'm not sure if I followed the argument well enough (I'll take a look at it in a minute) but as long as Eomer's chance of being a vampire rests on someone lying about voting Legate then the option is still on as I did lie about my vote to keep the vampires off my real thoughts then. Yes, I agree that this does increase the possibility that Eomer was lying. Indeed, it would have given him a good motive to state that there were five votes. He would have been told that there were four, but (since his would not have counted) would have known that there was an additional, undeclared one.

Taken together all his discussions on the Celuien-voters looks like drawing a bit too lot of comfort from one quite unsure source of information. When catching supernatural beasties, I like to try to knock people out of consideration. In light of your information, Eomer is back on my list. But we can still view the other Celuien voters (Loiella and Aganzir) as likely innocents, can we not? Please, someone tell me if my reasoning is off here.

As for lynching Glirdy, I can see the sense of it, but instinctively dislike voting for someone who I think is unlikely to be a Vampire. However, given that all my other main suspects have turned out to be innocent (as far as we know), it might perhaps be the best vote for me :rolleyes:. I am willing to go with it if there is a sufficient majority in agreement with it to carry it through.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

And given that we will know toMorrow, I am not sure that I like the way that Rune carried the argument on.I'll take you on too if I think you are using cheap rethorical trix!

[The Saucepan Man]

Let's lynch Nogrod. :eek:

While I remain slightly wary of Nogrod for the time being, I am certainly not prepared to vote for him without any indication that his claim is false.

Are you sure that you're the Seer Rikae? I find it hard to see any basis for you not being, though. The only possibilities are that Glirdy's the real Seer or the real Seer has chosen not to contest your claim so as to remain hidden. But, in either circumstance, it would have been mad for you to claim Seership, if a Vampire.

So, is there something that you are not telling us? What makes you so distrustful of Noggie's claim that you are prepared to vote for him?

[The Saucepan Man]

I'll take you on too if I think you are using cheap rethorical trix!I understand that you were not seeking to advise the Shade to side with the Vampires, as Nogrod suggested. But it did seem rather pointless to carry on the argument in the circumstances. We will most likely know toMorrow if the Shade is with us our not.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yeah it might have been, but I felt for it at the moment and so I chose to argue back. That is not something I regret. . .

[Durelin]

What can I say? I truly believed her highly likely to be a Vampire until the moment she revealed. I have a long history of suspecting Seers ... :rolleyes:

Even when he's a wolf... :p

Actually, that statement makes me feel he's innocent.

But anyway...

Lommy's not getting enough attention, but what's new there.

Gil-galad's playing style has changed drastically.

Eomer is Eomer.

Those are our vampires.

[The Saucepan Man]

Even when he's a wolf... :p True enough. :D

Although, even when I was a Wolf, I had no idea that the person I was feigning to suspect (erm, Rikae ...) was the Seer.

I have reviewed the events of Days 1 and 2. Here are my thoughts, in brief:

Known innocents (subject to any contrary evidence)
Rikae
Boro
Mac
Nogrod

Presumed innocent (for now)
Lomiella
Aganzir
Both were Celuien voters and both have come across as genuine and helpful to me.

Feeling quite warm and fuzzy about
Gil - Nothing really alarms me about him, and I like his new approach. :D As I understand it, he's having a day off toDay, so I'm prepared to wait 'til he's back with us.
Di - I'd like to hear more from her, but she's coming across OK to me. I still think it unlikely that a Vampire would have so obviously objected to stating our votes.
Durelin - Not much to add to my previous thoughts. She's coming across to me just as I would expect an innocent Durelin to act. I think that she would be more jumpy (and also more involved) if she were a Vampire.

Nothing to go on
Xyzzy - Vaguely suspicious for his possible attempt to out the Seer in #164, but that's about it.
Glirdy - As I said, I'd be willing to vote for him in the absence of a better candidate, and with sufficient agreement from the village as a whole.

Some Suspicion
Eomer - Moved onto my "suspicious" list now I can see a good motive for him, as a Vampire, having indicated (and lied about) five votes for Celuien, when the Lynch Seer.
Kitanna - For no other reason than the residual possibility that her seeming confusion over the Vampires and their votes may have been a bluff.
Sixth - Has been fairly uninvolved and may be trying to lay low.
Rune - has contributed regularly without really saying a lot. Possibly tried to divert the village toDay by prolonging the Shade discussion.

Most suspicious
Legate - Spent a lot of time on Day 1 saying a lot without really saying a lot, if you know what I mean. I still think that there may well have been a Vampire among those who claimed to voted late for Menel and, of those who did, he looks the most suspicious to me.
Shasta - Spent much of Day 1 roleplaying. Famously left Legate of his Day 1 suspicion list, posted at the beginning of Day 2. In #178, claims that it didn't occur to him to state who he voted for, despite most having agreed that it was a good idea to do so (and despite himself noting what a good idea it was in #188). In#203, claims to be confused about the voting, despite having said earier (in response to Kitanna's confusion) that the rules seemed pretty clear to him.

[Boromir88]

Glirdy - As I said, I'd be willing to vote for him in the absence of a better candidate, and with sufficient agreement from the village as a whole.~SPM
I would rather go for Shasta or Legate....though you probably already knew that.

I can't imagine all the vampires laying low and being inactive. Though I can't find any good reason to vote for one of these people, I just can't shake off the feeling there's a vampire in some of the 'active' members today:

Durelin
Diamond
SpM
Rune

I'm not going to vote for one of these today, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if one of them was a vampire. I really want to find out about Shasta or Legate as that will be like lifting off a 2 ton Mumak off my chest. I definitely think if one is a vampire, there is a good chance the other is. Though I don't agree with what Gil thinks if one is innocent:

if Shasta = innocent, then Legate = innocent

[The Saucepan Man]

I would rather go for Shasta or Legate....though you probably already knew that.As matters stand, I would be prepared to vote for either of these. Although I would prefer, if possible, to hear from the Lynch Seer before making my mind up on Legate.

I'm off to grab some sleep now. See y'all on the morrow.

[Diamond18]

I'm about to leave... I'm waffling between voting for Glirdan or voting for Gil. Of the two I find it more likely that Gil is a vampire. I'm going to give it another hour or so and if Glirdan doesn't show up I think I'll vote for him, so the mod doesn't have to. But Gil's change in playing style is the most suspicious thing I can really latch onto right now.

[Boromir88]

Di, out of curiosity how do you feel about Shasta and Legate?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Who to vote for: Once again I find my self with out an answer, at least not one I am truly confident about.

SPM: I am really torn about him, there small things that makes me un-easy about him, but then he will go on and say something that makes me think that he is innocent.

Like the way when he casually mentions that he is not sure about how he feels about me carrying the argument on. That is just one of those kind of comments that is brilliant for a wolf/vampire to use. . .Withour jumping too much on a person you still voice a slight suspicion that you can use one of the following days if it fits into your game. I have seen many a skilled wolf use it. But then Saucie tells me that he is totaly aware that I was not trying to advice the shade, the way he does this then makes me think that it really just was a casual remarc from an innocent.

and then he mentions it again when he lists his suspects and I can totaly understand that, that makes sense wither you are vampire or innocent, but it does not help me.

Di: I think she is Innocent. . . I don't know why she just seem innocent, it might be that the fact that we were kind of on the same side on the whole shade thing has made me look upon her with gentler eyes. I don't know, but she is not getting my vote today.

Durelin: I know I never specified this, but there is just something slightly wrong with her. . .well in the way she plays. It is one of those things that seems hard to put a finger on. (save for the one point that Roa made, unfortunately that was not mine)

Glirdan: I am willing to lynch him, but it would purely be as damage controll. . .I am just a bit worried that the vampires could use such a kill to hide in, if you know what I mean. If everyone starts voting Glirdan, well it would be easier to hide in a big groub than in a small one.

Xyzzy: I actually think that we should lynch Xy. . . soon, it gives me bad nervers to have some one around that says so little.

If people wants to go for Legate or Shasta, I would be more inclined to vote Shasta as previouse post confused me a bit, where as Legate left no real impression neither good or bad.

hmmm yeah that is the people I feel like commenting on right now. . .if I get inspired I might return with a few more comments.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

btw don't count on Glirdan to show up. . .homework has taken him away!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I thought that I should say a bit about Lommy and Nogrod as well.


Lommy: What is there too say, she seems innocent as always. I cannot remember who, but someone said that too little atention was directed at her. This I can only agree with and will, take a closer look at her posts from now on. I don't think I have ever really suspected Lommy.

Nogrod: Now this is an interesting fellow. Never before have I had such a desire to embrace and lynch a person at the same time. I think the posts he made after his "I am the hunter" one has been some of the most interesting I have read in ww in a long time. I think some of his reasoning has been silly and on one hand I wan't to kill him for it as it could just be a vampire making stuff up and on the other hand I find it awesome because I love when people think unconventional. No matter what he has put forth a claim to be the Hunter and for now I do not think I will be contesting that claim.

[Diamond18]

Di, out of curiosity how do you feel about Shasta and Legate?

Honestly, I don't know. I don't really have an opinion on them.

Edit: toDay was the first day I had time to properly read over everything posted, and they were both absent.

[Diamond18]

Well I have sent in my vote. I voted for Glirdan. I'm too confused about the others to pick one.

[xyzzy]

On post #164... I was implying that the dreamer could throw a name into the conversation, repeatedly. It wouldn't quite look bad, since, at that point, we had no clue who the Seer was.

And since no one is paying attention to me:

I voted for Lommy (random) on day one, and Rune (suspicion of Shade-ness, a suspicion I still hold, along with others) on day two, both of which I've already said...

Today, it's Nogrod. NOGROD. N-O-G-R-O-D. Alrighty? Yes, I have been stating who I'm voting for, so stop accusing me of otherwise...

And, in a bit of irony, I'll rehash a strategy that totally failed last game when I was a wolf:

It's pretty much my nature to be suspicious of anyone who reveals their role before endgame, so I'm keeping an eye on Rikae. It's easy to get the weakest wolf killed off and look like the hero of the innocents. If other people die, and Rikae isn't protected, I will be looking veeeery carefully at Rikae...

[Gil-Galad]

As I understand it, he's having a day off toDay, so I'm prepared to wait 'til he's back with us.

OOC: sorry about that, had to go to this convention today... met the Incredible Hulk

but i am now returned, and the way i see it, Nogrod has proclaimed himself the hunter... yet Rikae, who has proclaimed herself the seer, has voted for Nogrod... i won't say anymore, because if it is what i think it is then it be best i shut up... :p

I think that wasting votes on Glirdy is, well, a waste because he is on the verge of suiciding anyways, so instead of helping the vampires by wasting votes on a probably innocent, we should use our votes worthwhile, the more people we lsoe the harder it will be us to win... but then again, if none of us have anyone better to vote for, it would be good to vote Glirdy and save ourselves by making a mistake and watsing a good innocent...

too much to ponder... and i msut vote now too... hmmm... i don't want to vote glirdy because i hate the aspect of wasting a good vote, but it doesn't look like any other vote will do any good.

This brings me back to Legate/Shasta again, both have been rather quiet this day (haven't seen any of them) and i really want it figured out, so i'll probably send my vote in for

++Shasta

EDIT: wow, after reading Xyzzy's post, i just remembered that the vamps got gifted too, how certain can we be that Rikae isn't the Vamp Seer and the innocents she proclaimed were fellow vampires... i don't mean to bring the spotlight on you Rikae, but its a thought

also, if somebody has already resolved this, let me no and save me from being an idiot...

[Kitanna]

I'm a bit worried about Rikae's lynch Nogrod idea. She expressed some doubts about him and his Hunter role. Four innocents could well die with the lynching of Nogrod.

I like what Rune said on the subject of Glirdan I feel it rings true for voting in general:
Glirdan: I am willing to lynch him, but it would purely be as damage controll. . .I am just a bit worried that the vampires could use such a kill to hide in, if you know what I mean. If everyone starts voting Glirdan, well it would be easier to hide in a big groub than in a small one.
If we all vote one way (ex: most for Nogrod, Glirdan, Shasta, or Legate, since those four have generated a good deal of attention for different reasons) I worry that the vampires will find it easier to lie and blend in. I also realize spreading the votes out to much will only cause confusion, but I'm also worried about an extreme bandwagon.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I guess there wasn't much point in defending myself, since it all seems to have gone in Gil's right ear and out his left. <_<

I'm tempted to revenge-vote Gil, as I still think he's a vampire. And no one's explained Sleepy's death yet... was he modkilled? Why was he killed before Glirdan, if that's the case? Also, Nogrod may be the hunter, but I'm not sure whether he's innocent or vampiric at this point... I think maybe Roa was the hunter, and Sleepy died with her, in which case Nogrod would be the Vampiric Hunter. What do you guys think?


And seriously, how does a post explaining where I was yesterday end up confusing someone?

[Boromir88]

And no one's explained Sleepy's death yet... was he modkilled? Why was he killed before Glirdan, if that's the case?~Shasta
Well in the narration Sleepy commits suicide, so my guess would be Sleepy told Kath and/or Volo he did not have the time to participate anymore and to just 'kill' him.

Also, Nogrod may be the hunter, but I'm not sure whether he's innocent or vampiric at this point... I think maybe Roa was the hunter, and Sleepy died with her, in which case Nogrod would be the Vampiric Hunter. What do you guys think?
Looks like you're getting a bit desperate. If Roa was the hunter we would have been told so, and she would have taken down Sleepy with her. Instead Sleepy killed himself and Roa was an ordinary innocent. So, I say again, I think it looks like you're getting desperate.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

There's one vote against me. I have no reason to be getting desperate.

Is there some reason you and Gil are banding together to take me out, or am I just being paranoid?

[Nogrod]

I can see one point behind Rikae's move to suggest voting me - remember she has only said she has voted for me, we don't know whether she actually has done that. With this kind of "trap" we could see people's reactions and that might have helped us in spotting the vamps. Sadly it seems only to have produced the most obvious result. The people who think a bit see the flaw in it easily (why to make the work of killing an innocent ourselves and thence lose on numbers with one as we can force the vamps to kill me as well - and any contesting claim would give us a 100% kill anyway). And it is quite clear that the vamps would be the first ones to notify this flaw as to make them look better - or maybe even because they are afraid of what might happen if I'm lynched.

This far it seems only Xyzzy fell for Rikae's suggestion. Now that does make me think. There is also the bit weird point in there as well: And, in a bit of irony, I'll rehash a strategy that totally failed last game when I was a wolfI know he may wish to say something else but to me this reads: voting someone over whom someone else has made a suspicion a short while before his own voting without caring to make any arguments oneself. I do dislike this kind of action (he was pretty much the same in his last game) but I am not sure if I'm ready to vote on it.

[Nogrod]

I might indeed be ready to vote for Glirdy toDay.

I think there are at least two reasons to do that.

1. Damage assessment. If he's going to be modfired let's save one on numbers.

2. By killing Glirdy we get some confirmation on Rikae (and myself too). Even though I think the chance that Rikae is fooling us with her Seerness is a thin one it's a possibility. And as I believe that the shade is wise enough to protect her on the next Night we would do well to get some comfirmation on Rikae's status.

[Rikae]

Nogrod called it correctly..

I haven't voted yet.

I'm somewhat disturbed by Kitanna's post.
Spreading out votes will not help us - it will mean fewer known innocents if the number of votes is as expected.
It looks like she is trying to make life easy for the wolves; give them a reason for throwaway, and therefore undetectable, "votes".

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod's last post and very confused.
How would lynching Glirdy confirm anything?

[Nogrod]

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod's last post and very confused.
How would lynching Glirdy confirm anything?Not exactly confirm but give us further reasons. I think you have noticed that the theories of you or myself not being what we say depends on a supposition that the vampire-seer has dreamt of someone really quiet who is the actual gifted but who wouldn't be around to contest the claim of yours or mine.

So it looks like Glirdy is the last chance. I think others have been around at least after you revealed yourself - and I hope the rest will turn out toDay so that the same can be said of myself as well.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Hmmm... Evil-Nogrod does have a history of impersonating Gifteds. Say he is doing it again. What's the plot?

One possible is that he is the Vampire Seer, dreamed Xyzzy or Glirdan is a Hunter and decided to take the chance. Personally I find that too confounded, though. Why would he dream of Xyzzy or Glirdan? I don't have much experience with people falsely impersonating Gifteds...

Personally I find it hilarious that anyone would think the Shade would side with anyone, even for a limited period of time.

Why so hilarious? I think it is in the Shade's best interests to side with one team, and I would have thought he/she will have gone with the villagers. The vampires know who is innocent, can confuse the villagers during the day and have all the innocent's gifted powers. Wouldn't it be better to even up the tables a bit?

Is Durelin the Shade? Comments like this:

What's to say the Shade wants to play it safe?
and
You know, I could see Saucie being the uber shade.
and
I'm tempted to not state my vote just to bother people,
and
The Shade might well be playing with our heads already.
and
I didn't state my vote because I didn't vote.
and
In other words - stay away from me

It just seems hostile. Durelin keeps mentioning the Shade, which is a bit wierd, if I was the shade I wouldn't do that... don't know.

[The Saucepan Man]

Just a quick one.

Spreading out votes will not help us - it will mean fewer known innocents if the number of votes is as expected.As I see it, there are arguments both ways. A broad concensus on one candidate, eg Glirdy, will mean that we can be more certain that the apparent lynchee is the actual lynchee, and this will assist the Lynch Seer in identifying the subject of the riddle. However, it will be easier for a Vampire to hide among a large number of votes for the same person because it will be more difficult to identify which was the "bluff vote" from the Lynch Seer's figures. A wider range of possible lynchees will also make it more difficult for the Vampires to place their stated votes more "safely".

So, for example, it would have been more risky for a Vampire to place a vote for Celuien on Day 1 than it would have been for one to place a vote for Menel on Day 2.

[Aganzir]

Sixth - If one thing's almost certain, it is that Nogrod is not the Vampire Seer. Were he a Vampire, he would most probably be the Vampire Hunter. The Vampires wouldn't risk their Seer, who can be said to be the most important for them.
And, if the Vampires had a reason to fear that the Shade might protect Rikae next Night, and the Ranger the following etc, it would be most profitable for them to have one of their own (V. Hunter) killed, and Rikae with him, before Rikae has a chance to dream of one of them.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Alright, I no longer suspect Nogrod as much, because he said that we may as well lynch Glirdy and thus help prove his innocence.

I don't think I have ever really suspected Lommy.

I thought that last game and got ... TOWTALLY PWNED. Don't fall for it. ;)

<EDIT> X-ed with Aganzir. Who I agree with by the way.

[The Saucepan Man]

It occurs to me that the Shade might be more willing to protect Rikae if she agrees not to reveal his/her identity if she dreams of him/her. We don't need to kill the Shade, or indeed to know his/her identity, in order to win.

The only consideration is that the Shade does not count as an innocent for the purpose of deciding a Vampire win, but I would have thought that protecting Rikae is a more important consideration right now.

[Thinlómien]

I was more and more inclined to think either SPM or Noggie is a vampire - so if Nogrod's the hunter (which I'm almost ready to believe) should I be suspecting SPM?

And then, Durelin's been worrying me of late too...

(Hmmm - any chance Legate is the third one? And where's TGWBS? ;))

Seriously though. SPM slightly worries me and Durelin too. Of Legate I can't say almost anyhthing though. His day1-vote was pretty weird, but that doesn't certainly make him a vampire. I wish his computer didn't have a virus...

Durelin. Her cases and suspicions have been pretty flimsy. Not only her case against Mac, but her other suspicions too. (And I'm not saying this because she's started suspecting me. :p)

If SPM is a wolf, I advice looking at me, Eomer and Aganzir, as he has been a staunch supporter of the Celuien voters' innocence. It'd be easy for a SPM-wolf to sneakily sway suspicion away from a fellow wolf who was a Celuien voter byt giving the "lynch seer evidence" for their innocence. (But on the other hand, I know I'm innocent and I'm inclined to think that Eomer and Aganzir are innocent as well.)

~*~

I have the feeling that our lynch seer for yesterDay was a vampire and s/he's not going to tell us anything, but post about different things and feign that s/he has no clue... :rolleyes:

~*~

I'd love to lynch xyzzy. He's pretty annoying (sorry to use such a harsh word) and besides he keeps doing suspicious things. Just look at his jumping to Rikae's Noggie-thingy. But anyway my vote is far from fixed.

edit: xed with Sauce

[The Saucepan Man]

If SPM is a wolf, I advice looking at me, Eomer and Aganzir, as he has been a staunch supporter of the Celuien voters' innocence.If I was a fellow Vampire with Eomer or one of the other Celuien voters, this would have been a darn stoopid thing for me to do, as it establishes a clear and sustained link.

I had been hoping that we could more or less clear the Celuien voters, but Nogrod's information changed all that. In light of that information, it is apparent that a Vampiric Eomer, as Lynch Seer, would have had a good motive to state that there were five votes for Celuien in circumstances where only four had been stated. However, this would have required Eomer to have taken quite a risk in placing his stated vote for Celuien (in circumstances where she was quite likely to be lynched), with only a small likelihood of him being nominated the Lynch Seer.

It also occurs to me that if Eomer is a Vampire and lied about the number of votes for Celuien, one of the other Celuien voters might also be a Vampire (the actual number of votes Celuien received could, conceivably, have been three). But this is highly unlikely and would have been extremely risky for the Vampires. I am, in any event, currently quite comfortable with Lomiella and Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Day 1:

#33: Plays in-character, and doesn't actually say anything. The word "shade" appears quite a many times.

#51: Doesn't actually say anything.

#58: Answers Rikae's questions (=jokes?).

#87: Generally confused.

#100: Decides to vote for Menel, who has made short posts, and said little, yet agrees with Menel that no one should be given the benefit of doubt.

#105: Votes for Menel, tells that he has already sent the vote.

Day 2:

#149: Supposes that Brinn was killed due to her little chance to be online on Day 1. Suggests talking about the Lynch Seer and strategies.

#236: Comments on one comment about himself, tells he saves his better posts until next day.

#261: Says nothing significant.

#267: Jokes about the deadline.

#271: Appreciates Roa's points about Nogrod and Durelin in post 229 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=519576&postcount=229). Thinks he will vote for either Menel or a non-contributer.

#274: Doesn't know how suspicious it is that Xyzzy is making weird cases against him. Suggests that Rikae should dream of either Nogrod or Roa.

#280: Says Rikae shouldn't reveal the ordo she had dreamed of.

#282: Finds Boro's suggestion that Rikae should reveal her known innocent a bit alarming.

#284: Says he will vote for Xyzzy if others are ready to vote for Xyzzy, too. Otherwise will vote for Menel.

#285: Votes for Menel.

#290: Reminds us of the deadline.

#294: Discussion about the deadline.

#304: Discussion about the deadline.

Day 3:

#359: Now that Menel's dead he can focus on Durelin, and would also like to focus on Nogrod but for his Hunter status.

#365: Explains to Di Durelin's "Hah :rolleyes:".

#381: Speaks about crazy ideas & suggests that the Shade was after Rikae in fear that Rikae would reveal him/her.

#386: Says everyone understands what Nogrod is saying, but there's no point in trusting the Shade.

#389: Likes the idea of damage control but doesn't like that we wouldn't actually be looking for people to lynch (Vampires) as we'd just try to get rid of those in danger of suicide.

#393: We can't be sure what the Shade will do. Argues with Nogrod about the Shade.

#401: Answers to Spm.

#404: Answers to Spm.

#411: Is torn about Spm, thinks Di is innocent. Hard to put finger on Durelin, but there's something slightly wrong with her. Is willing to lynch Glirdan, but fears that it would be easy for the Vampires to hide by voting for him. Thinks it would be good to lynch Xyzzy. More inclined to vote for Shasta than for Legate.

#412: Tells that homework has taken Glirdan away.

#413: Says that Lommy seems innocent, but at her posts have been looked too little. Wants and doesn't want to kill Nogrod - either he's a Vampire impersonating the Hunter or the real Hunter.

I hope I managed to notice all his posts. I would have done more, but my bus leaves in five minutes and I really have to run. I'll be back before the deadline and see what I can make out of this.

[Thinlómien]

If I was a fellow Vampire with Eomer or one of the other Celuien voters, this would have been a darn stoopid thing for me to do, as it establishes a clear and sustained link.Not necessarily. Were you a vampire with some of us, that'd exactly be your defense. And ever heard of double-bluff? :Merisu: :p I predict that if one of us turned out to be a vamp, you might even be given the benefit of doubt. So not that darn stoopid at all as far as I see.

[The Sixth Wizard]

Curses, I find myself agreeing with Lomiella just like last game.

Does the role of a player get revealed when they commit suicide? If so, I see no reason to kill Glirdan. There are much more productive leads to go on than just lynching a quiet(er than me) one. Soon they'll all be gone the way of madness, though we could lynch Xyzzy.

Sixth - Has been fairly uninvolved and may be trying to lay low.

Hey, I live in Australia and go to school. It's hard enough to get on at all, let alone when all of you are here. Anyways...

It's a close run thing between Durelin and Xyzzy, but I think I will vote for the former. Some of the things she said just don't feel right to me. It's a mystery I would like to see resolved.

++Durelin

[Rikae]

Well, I can't say I have any certainty about any vote I might make at this point...I'm afraid my heart really hasn't been in this game, seer though I am...
I just have too many suspects, too.
Durelin
SPM
Legate
Xyzzy
Kitanna

all look ridiculously evil to me...and obviously at least two aren't.
Rune seems a bit odd as well, and no one's looked at Sixth.
I really don't see much point in lynching Glirdan today.
If I can be kept alive for one more night, I swear, I will not reveal the shade's identity if I happen to dream of him/her. That would be counterproductive in any event.
I'll have to cast my vote soon, but I really feel as though I have no clear leads at the moment.

[Nogrod]

A piece of information and my apologies!

I was the lynch seer last Night! It was posted to my e-mail and not on my BD PM and I noticed it just now.

No problem as I would have not given Menel a free kill anyhow.

But the inmportant part is here. He got 5 votes.

Here's the tally of voiced votes with Menel on:
Rune: Menel (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 1, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Boro: Legate (Nogrod 1, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Roa: Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Menel 1)
Durelin: Boro (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 1)
Lommiella: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 2)
Aganzir: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 3)
Mac: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 4)
Esspiem: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 5)
Legate: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 6)
Nogrod: Menel (Nogrod 2, Shasta 1, Gil 1, Rikae 2, Legate 2, Boro 2, Menel 7)

Of those bolded two have lied. Mac and I are innocent (and this time I didn't lie).

Rune, Lommy, Aganzir, Spm, Legate - and two wolves (or one wolf & the shade possibly) in there.

Good that I found that e-mail...

[Rikae]

Well, that's an eye opener, and no mistake...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So do we just start at one end of the list and start the killing or what are peoples thoughts?

hmmm I suppose this is not the sort of thing you would lie about, then you would surely only have said that there was one wolf amongst us.

Think about how useful a tool this could be for a bold wolf, if the real lynch seer did not make it to the next day. . .

anyways I am not thinking that this is the case, it was just a thought that popped into my mind.

[Rikae]

I'm inclined to think SPM is the best candidate from that list...who's with me?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think him a better candidate than Rune and Aganzir, they both seem innocent to me.

I would be equally willing to vote Lommy, SPM and Legate.

[Nogrod]

The list is almost like my top five to begin with. :p
(And yes my top suspect is in there too which I'm pretty delighted about)

I hope you keep on understanding me not being too open about all of my convictions but I have time now and could try and see for some points on all of the five.

I hope Mac and Boro could come to share their thoughts. Although they're probably not right in everything they think they're still innocents and thence we should hear their advice as well.

But I'll try to do my part.

Hope you Rikae have a moment or two to spare as well.

And I do hope that you others contribute too. This might be made a lot easier with lively discussion.

[Thinlómien]

Uh-oh. Well that's definitely an interesting piece of news! But the lynch seers seem to be far greater advance for us than I first thought. :D

Of those I could vote Rune, SPM or Legate, since I pretty strongly feel Aganzir is innocent. Of those I'm least suspicious of Rune being a vampire... So I guess my vote is going to be for Legate or SPM. Maybe it'd be better to vote Legate since that might also be getting rid of a possible wolf-slipping-under-radar-because-of-absence. And I have to vote and leave soon (in an hour probably).

[The Saucepan Man]

Not necessarily. Were you a vampire with some of us, that'd exactly be your defense.Well, most things said and done in this game can be interpreted either way. Which is why, even with the limitations we have here, the voting record still provide us with some of the best evidence we have. And this is particularly so now, in light of this:

Rune, Lommy, Aganzir, Spm, Legate - and two wolves (or one wolf & the shade possibly) in there.... which is incredibly helpful, I think (although also slightly unhelpful to me ... ;) )

I'm inclined to think SPM is the best candidate from that list...who's with me?Think what you like, but I can assure you that I submitted a vote to the Oracle and, as far as I am aware, it counted in the votes for Menel. Would I really have been banging on about the Menel vote if it was likely to prove this unhelpful to the Vampires ...? Oh wait. Yes, because that would be exactly my defence. :rolleyes:

Rune and Legate seem the most likely candidates to me, although I still wonder whether Rune might be the Shade.

I was thinking of voting for Shasta but, in light of this information, I will cast my vote as follows:

++Legate

I must vote now, as I will not be back before the deadline.

Current stated votes are, believe, as follows:

Di: Glirdy (Glirdy 1)
Xyzzy: Nogrod (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1)
Sixth: Durelin (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1)
Esspiem: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1)

[Rikae]

I have to leave now...I'll just cast my vote for
++SPM

and let the chips fall where they may.

Goodbye! I doubt I'll be back...:rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Okay. Here are some thoughts then to begin with.

Aganzir has been remarkably cool and intelligent. She plays sharply. And that's kind of the reason why I suspect her on the basis of gut-feelings. She has been the most knowledgeable about things the vampires might do like reminding us about the special roles and how the vamps might use them. I at least forgot them in the beginning of the game quite a many times. But still she's quite reserved. She rarely makes any concrete points but feels more like avoiding any controversy or straight suspicions on anyone. ToDay she at last managed to make one more concrete post (about Rune) but in the end she didn't say anything about it...

So a witty vampire playing it safe? Seeing how no one seems to think her the vampire kind of strengthenes the point here. And if she is, then my congratulations to her for one of the coolest first games I've seen.

[Thinlómien]

I'm kind of torn between Sauce and Legate... I already stated the reasons to vote Legate, but Sauce feels slightly a tiny little bit more suspicious. And I'm not definitely going to do an analysis - in Legate's case there would be almost nothing to analyse and in Sauce's case there would be too much. :rolleyes:

edit: xed with Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

ToDay she at last managed to make one more concrete post (about Rune) but in the end she didn't say anything about it...
Yes, but she said:
I hope I managed to notice all his posts. I would have done more, but my bus leaves in five minutes and I really have to run. I'll be back before the deadline and see what I can make out of this.
So I gather she's to be back and to continue her case against Rune.

[The Saucepan Man]

A parting thought.

I am rather concerned with the way that Nogrod has used his claimed Hunter status to come up with al this useful information, rather late in the day as it were. It remains possible that the Vampire Seer established that the real Hunter was one who would not be around toDay, allowing a Vampiric Nogrod to make the claim. If so, he has certainly not wasted his opportunity.

I think it unlikely, because it would be rather unsporting of Nogrod, and so out of character, to claim that he did not notice a PM when there was no such PM there. So, it is probably best to work on the assumption that his claim is true for now.

But it may be a point to bear in mind for the future ...

See y'all either toMorrow or, if not, in the afterthread ... ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So I gather she's to be back and to continue her case against Rune.
Hey! What makes you think there is a case against me? She might just be highligting all the brilliance I have brought to this game. . . :D


Should we discus wither Lommy is a possibel lynch or have we already decided to save her for last?

Even though SPM is the one that has been giving me the biggest headaches so far, I would rather vote Legate. . .Yeah after thinking it over, I think I am going to vote Legate if not Lommy. The thing about SPM is that he always seem suspicouse at some point in the game.

[Nogrod]

And if Aganzir is a wolf then it just might be conceivable that Lommy is one as well. She's playing in her cool way as ever ducking almost all suspicions. And I wouldn't put it past Volo to handpick his two friends as the vampires just for the fun of it...

So I have some bad feelings about this duet being the vamps. And Lommy as the veteran seems to be givin her support to underline Aganzir's innocence.


I already discussed my theory of Rune being the shade impersonator vampire earlier and will not elaborate it more in here. It is a possibility as I can't see there being any reason why an innocent would like to pose as a shade even jokingly.


Legate was surely around on Day1. After that he has got RL problems. I did share the suspicions some voiced here about him being too nice. And somehow he wished to be seen and heard, mating around people but in the end saying pretty little. So that might be just a perfect cover-up for a vampire. Nice and friendly, good spirited roleplay-writing, feeling to be all around but still avoiding every suspicion.

With cases of Aganzir, Lommy and Legate we must remember that the worst nightmare to a baddie is a seer-dream and they would do anything to avoid it. So the baddies rarely - if they play wisely - stand in the middle of things and wish to avoid all controversy. Otherwise they have to be so reliable feeling ones that the seer doesn't bother. And that's pretty risky. I once almost made it that way but that requiered me to lynch two of my mates... :cool:

[Thinlómien]

Sheesh, now that you say it and I think of it I guess I've been kind of shielding Aganzir - but because she genuinely seems innocent to me and because she is a RL friend fo mine and this is her first game...

[Nogrod]

And Spm then... Well, well, well.

Myself and Mac have made a few questions on him and it seems Lommy and Rikae at least are thinking him suspicious. I'm not going to recount those things but only add one small thing more that has caught my eye lately.

He has been the second staunchest defender of the voice of reason and the shade. Now underlining openly that it's best for the shade to help us villagers in a situation where no one knows how the shade will act will make things in reality harder for the vamps and helps us if it influences the decisions of the shade. So doing that actually might help us indeed. But I've done the very same bluff a long time ago. By bringing forwards a way of playing that made it harder for the wolves (which I were one myself then) to win won me a lot of trust... And I know Spm is easily capable of pulling the same trick.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod... If I and Aganzir were (both) wolves (who don't have a vote) , how come Celuien died? :rolleyes: Who on earth voted her then?

I gather that was not an especially serious speculation from you, but it was definitely not a very good piece of speculation... ;)

edit: xed with Woggler

[Nogrod]

Nice variety here...

Di: Glirdy (Glirdy 1)
Xyzzy: Nogrod (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1)
Sixth: Durelin (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1)
Esspiem: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1, Spm 1)

The list candidates boldened.

Happily a lot of votes to follow.

[Thinlómien]

Having thought of this more, I'd kind of prefer to vote SPM. But to say it straightforwadly: if other people than Rune are seriously accusing me, I'm afraid I will vote Legate (who pretty much everyone seems to suspect at some level) to save my own skin, as I know that lynching me does not profit the village unlike lynching Legate or Sauce (or Rune?) might.

Anyway I will be voting very soon and I have to make the final decision in minutes...

edit: xed with Noggie

[Nogrod]

Nogrod... If I and Aganzir were (both) wolves (who don't have a vote) , how come Celuien died? :rolleyes: Who on earth voted her then?Possibly a good point. I need to check that myself too. I just put in my feelings and didn't check any earlier votings to back them...

Well, these voting lists might actually turn out much more effective than I'd imagined! (well, someone said this already but I just felt I had to say it myself too)

[Kitanna]

I need vote now, since I'll be in class when Day ends, but I'm entirely sure what to do. I'm tempted to vote for Glirdan since it looks like one way or another he will die due to his inactiveness. But I don't like the idea of voting for someone for that reason and that reason alone. In what little time I have left I'm going to look at a few people and make my decision from there.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I would just like to point out that I have not been putting seriouse accusations forth against Lommy, I was just trying to raise awareness about her and possibly hear what others think.

Of course I am willing to vote for Lommy if it is necisary, but that is a completely different talk.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think it would be amusing if Glirdy were an actual vampire. However, since he's probably going to be modkilled anyway, I think I'm going to vote Legate for two reasons:

1. He's on the list of five, two are vampires (if Nogrod's not lying)

2. Gil and Boro keep bringing up the possiblity of a connection between Legate and myself, and if to lay this to rest, one of us has to die, then I'd much rather it be him than me. ;)

++Legate

Edit: x'ed with Rune

[Boromir88]

I am rather concerned with the way that Nogrod has used his claimed Hunter status to come up with al this useful information, rather late in the day as it were.~SpM

I think it unlikely, because it would be rather unsporting of Nogrod, and so out of character, to claim that he did not notice a PM when there was no such PM there. So, it is probably best to work on the assumption that his claim is true for now.~SpM

And this is why I'll be voting for...

++The Saucepan Man

Clever vampiric tactic here to try to sew some confusion and doubt at the end. I think our Sir SpM realizes he's going down and is now trying to cast doubts in everyone's heads. Quite clever, as when I'm a wolf and I know I'm going down I want to do the exact same thing. He comes out to try to cast doubt into Nogrod's claims, and then he goes on to say its unlikely and we should believe it.

Nogrod is the hunter and is the lynch seer, if you can't tell this by the sincerity of his posts than go build me a bridge.

x-ed with Rune and Shasta

[Nogrod]

(if Nogrod's not lying)You'll find it out toMorrow in any case. Either Glirdy is modkilled and we know how things are or then he miraculosly appears back to the game and will tell himself.

[Boromir88]

Oh and I know I said I likely wouldn't vote for SpM today, but I think the situation and information has dramatically changed (thank you Nogrod for finding that e-mail)

[Thinlómien]

Okay then. I'm not a coward. I'll vote Sauce. He's slightly more suspicious than Legate, and I'd love too see Legate around saying something before he's lynched, I think it'd be just fair, (if he could come around toMorrow...? I'd like to give him the last chance toMorrow.)

Others (especially Mac and Nogrod) have raised good points against Sauce and I will not repeat them here. If you say two of me, Aganzir, Rune, Legate and Sauce are vampires (or one might be the shade) I can rule myself out and am inclined to trust Aganzir, so that leaves me with Rune (who I feel least vampiric of the remaining ones), SPM and Legate. So I wouldn't be surprised if Sauce and Legate were actually both wolves and as I said I want to give Legate a chance so my choice is logically SPM.

++El Hombre Saucepán (or whatever that funny version of his name was :D)

edit: xed with everyone after Kitanna

[Kitanna]

I have no time to explain, but

++ Eomer

I'm already late for class, but when the next Day begins I will give my reasoning behind this vote.

[Thinlómien]

Kitanna looks quite bad, but maybe she's actually too uninvolved and careless to be a vamp... I'd love to hear more of her toMorrow!

If both SPM and Legate are wolves, I think there's a good chance of Shasta being a wolf as well.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think it'd be just fair
When did fairness become introduced to this game? I for one was not notified.

I always feel weird about giving people a chance to speak up one of the following days, even though I do it sometimes. The thing is that often the game takes an unexpected turn and people forget about their previouse suspicions. . .There is a lesser chance for it to happen as we are fairly sure that 2 vampires are in this group.

anyways I will be voting Legate!

I did not get him killed in the last game I played in and he turned out to be a wolf, so this is going to be sweet if he is a vampire.

++Legate

[Nogrod]

Di: Glirdy (Glirdy 1)
Xyzzy: Nogrod (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1)
Sixth: Durelin (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1)
Esspiem: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1, Spm 1)
Shasta: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 1)
Boro: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 2)
Lommy: Spm (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 3)
Kitanna: Eomer (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Spm 3, Eomer 1)
Rune: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 3, Spm 3, Eomer 1)

If that is correct...

I'm looking at the voting on Day1 yet again to make some comparations with yesterDay's one.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Kitanna looks quite bad, but maybe she's actually too uninvolved and careless to be a vamp... I'd love to hear more of her toMorrow!

If both SPM and Legate are wolves, I think there's a good chance of Shasta being a wolf as well.


*headdesk* I give up. I've explained that there is no connection between me and Legate, and I don't know where the SPM connection came from, but apparently no one's listening to me.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that SPM and I are both voting for Legate, when it would be just as easy to vote Eomer instead, as they have the same amount of votes.

Edit again: Scratch that last part, it's SPM, not Eomer, with 3 votes. Sorry about that.

[Aganzir]

She has been the most knowledgeable about things the vampires might do like reminding us about the special roles and how the vamps might use them.
Because this game is, after all, quite new to me and I wanted to be sure I understand the rules.

I'm going to at least see if I can make anything out of my Rune project, but when I posted it, I really didn't have the time. The main reason why I decided to make it was that Rune was, as I saw it, avoiding suspicion because everyone seemed to suspect he was the Shade.

There were 30 posts I found, but he actually said very little - enough that others saw he was around, but not anything that would really have helped.

I would like to hear, why Rune thought Rikae should dream either of Nogrod or of Roa. Why not Spm, who was suspected more than Roa? If two of Menel-voters have lied, I think they might be Rune & Spm (though there's still the possibility of Legate being a Vampire, as I am not, and don't believe that Lommy is). Rune's vote for Legate is strategically placed, as now Legate and Spm are tied - if he had voted for Spm, it could have been expected that most of the following votes were for Spm (seeing what happened on the first two days). Even if Rune's vote didn't count, it'd not be obvious that Spm would die.

edit: xed with Shasta

[Nogrod]

This is a corrected vote count of votes from Day1;
Kitanna 2
Rikae 4 (not3)
Gil 1
Sixth 1
Menel 2
Legate 2 (not3)
Celuien 4 (told openly) / 5 (told by Eomer)
Rune 1

No vote stated: Xyzzy, Di, Shasta, Kitanna, Durelin, Glirdy

Now Dury told us she didn't vote and Glirdy we know didn't vote.

How about the rest? Did anyone of them comment their voting afterwards?

There are four unknown votes in here. If there is one vote for Celuien among them then Celuien-voters indeed look pretty much safe. That means: Lommy, Eomer, Aganzir & Roa (whom we know already). But if there is more than one there might be a vampire lurking within the Celuien-voters.

Of course if Eomer was messing with the tally the situation is different.

So it would help us a lot to know who of those four we don't know voted for whom.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nogrod, I didn't manage to vote Day 1 (didn't I say that?)

Edit: Yeah, just looked it up, post 176. :)

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, I didn't manage to vote Day 1 (didn't I say that?)YOu might have said it. I just don't remember it but I was going to ramble the thread through to find about these "missing votes"... Thanks for the info. So it's Xyzzy, Di and Kitanna and one vote for Celuien enough to make the Cel voters kind of safe but two votes to make one of them look pretty bad...

You probably understand the reason I'm doing this... As Lommy and Aganzir are on this list as well it would help us a lot to see this connection through.

Sadly both Di and Kitanna seem to have left for toDay.

They must be asked toMorrow!

[Aganzir]

hmmm I suppose this is not the sort of thing you would lie about, then you would surely only have said that there was one wolf amongst us.
This caught my eye. Are you speaking metaphorically or saying that there really was only one wolf, erm, vampire among Menel-voters? Or are my English skills (or wits) misleading me? :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Some pretty remarkable information again...

No vote stated: Xyzzy, Di, Shasta, Kitanna, Durelin, GlirdyNow it looks like the following:
Xyzzy -> Lommy
Di -> Legate
Shasta -> no vote
Kitanna -> no vote
Durelin -> no vote
Glirdy - no vote

Which means the ending number of votes is:
Celuien 4 (got them earlier)
Rikae 4
Legate 3
Menel & Kit 2
Gil, Sixth, Rune, Lommy 1

= 19 votes + 4 no votes = 23 = all declared

So either Eomer lied about the vote tally (and should be lynched because of that - and if this is why Kit was after him then kudos to her!) or then someone innocent has lied about voting for someone else while giving her/his vote to Celuien which I find a bit odd...

If someone has made that little trick, please let us know because otherwise we might have toMorrow's lynching ready already... :cool:

I need to think this again if there is a flaw in this but I'll post it for you others to see.

[Boromir88]

Interesting SpM and Legate tied up at 3...but is that really the case? If SpM and/or Rune/Shasta can not actually vote this would mean SpM is still in the lead.

I don't think any SpM voter (myself, Rikae, Thinlomien) is a vampire. And I have a feeling there is at least one vampire (SpM) in the Legate voters. With Rune/Shasta being either another vampire (Shasta) or the shade (Rune?)

Which leaves the mass of voters who haven't voted yet, voted for someone else, or we have no clue who they voted for:

Di
Xyzzy
Gil
The Sixth
Kitanna
Eomer
Glirdan
Aganzir
Nogrod
Durelin
Mac
Legate

Of that massive group Nogrod and Mac are known innocents (no ifs ands or buts about it people).

If Aganzir is a vampire, congrats in your first game and completely fooling me and sending me back to school.

Gil has posted more than me, so for that alone if he's a vampire he deserves to win.

Leaving everyone else in one glob to start figuring out...ummm tomorrow seems like a better day to do that.

Edit: x-ed with Nogrod and Aganzir

[Nogrod]

The shade might have lied... surely.

But if we are having a problem filling the votes for Celuien in the first place that would make Lommy and Aganzir look pretty good and I wouldn't encourage you to lynch them toDay.

[Macalaure]

I knew I was going to be busy today, but I had no idea just how busy...


I only skimmed the thread and so have nothing of importance to add. :(


I see SPM and Legate are on the block. Excellent. I could go for either of the two. Lead me and I follow.

[Nogrod]

Lead me and I follow.Check #437 if you already haven't. There's the basic line now...

[Aganzir]

I think I will go for Spm. I don't feel like voting for Rune, for if he's the Shade (which is more probable than that eg. Saucie was the Shade), we would truly need him alive next Night. But if Spm is a Vampire, then I think we should consider also Rune toMorrow.
And I think we really should hear more from Legate before lynching him.

++ Spm

[Macalaure]

Check #437 if you already haven't. There's the basic line now...
But according to that, both SPM and Legate are equally good.

[Durelin]

Bleh...no time, and a choice to make.....

++Legate

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This caught my eye. Are you speaking metaphorically or saying that there really was only one wolf, erm, vampire among Menel-voters? Or are my English skills (or wits) misleading me? :rolleyes: What I ment was that if one was to make such a bold bluff as pretending to be the lynch seer, then it would be more advisable to say that only one vote was missing. That way there would be more innocent killed before the treachery was discovered.

I hope that is good enough for you.

I would like to hear, why Rune thought Rikae should dream either of Nogrod or of Roa. Why not Spm, who was suspected more than Roa? Because I found them more interesting at the time. . .
I think it is very odd that you are implying that I should look at whom people in genneral suspects the most and advice Rikae to look at them. Not only would that allow the vampires great infulence on the dream (if Rikae listened to the advice) it would also be very populistic. . .I hate populists.

just a small comment: There is of course also the possibilty that a person mixed up with the voting and therefor did not get his/hers vote counted.

Edit: just adjusting the last bit of my post

[Durelin]

Well, I think who dies toDay will be very telling of who the vampires are, even if we don't get one toDay...

[Macalaure]

Ah well, let's just say:

++Saucepan Man

[Nogrod]

Okay. Let's lynch the Spam-man then... Legate earns one more hearing to be fair.

++ Saucepan Man

[Rikae]

So long, and thanks for all the fish...;)

good luck...

EDIT: Write me a good death, Volo!

[Nogrod]

But according to that, both SPM and Legate are equally good.Yes indeed... I thought if you weren't up to date to see the reason for our choices in the first place...

Rikae: Let's hope the shade knows what to do...

[Nogrod]

... and hopefully everyone has also voted... not just declared a vote here... :rolleyes:

[Macalaure]

Yes indeed... I thought if you weren't up to date to see the reason for our choices in the first place...
I was semi-up-to-date.

[Volo]

Night 4 began.

Now stop chatting and start doing your hidden stuff.

[Volo]

Kaimoir seamed dark and calm, only the sound of wood crackling in the great pyre could be heard. Lossenatar looked sadly into the blaze, it was alien to his world. The times before this quest for survival weren’t too bad. But Yulnagar knew better. Or did he...

Firithhyando walked to stand beside Lossenatar. Numundo sat by the other end of the tower.

”Loss...”

”Huh? What is it, Fir?”

”We have begun to fade”.

”I know. I know...”

They looked at each other, and then at Numundo.

Firithhyando continued, ”You are going to be the first one”.

”Sad to hear, but nothing can be done. You’ll have to fight your way out through this”.

”Do you think we should quit?”

”No... The Men are not going to let us go. Hilly died and so shall we. The only thing we can do is fight”.

”Hmm... I promise we will. Thank you for it all, Loss”.

”As you wish”, said Lossenatar and smiled bitterly. He walked to the ledge beside Numundo, said ”Farewell” and jumped off. Lossenatar’s bat figure flying towards the fire.


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


In the house near the great pyre slept a person who couldn’t even imagine what would happen so soon. The end was near.

A cloaked figure sat in the chair beside the bed sipping coffee. Soon the moment would come when the sword would be revealed.

Something creaked outside the room. The cloaked figure grasped the hilt of the sword tighter. Sweat flowed down the waiting figure’s brow.

The handle of the door started turning slowly.

And then it stopped.

Surely whatever was behind the door didn’t notice the Ranger waiting for the murderer.

The Ranger put on the hood and walked to the door. Heart beating overtime the Ranger listened. Something was breathing just as nervously on the other side of the door.

Strange as it was, footsteps were heard going away from the door.

The Ranger took a deep breath and waited. As nothing suprising happened, the Ranger opened the door and walked out to the corridor.

Without a sound something hit the Ranger’s head and before the Ranger hit the ground, the Vampire caught the body and put carefully on the floor.


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


The Vampires weren’t the only ones preparing to die. A man was lying in his bed, looking at the roof and sweating. His fever had gone up again. While he could still get out of bed occationally the other day, now he found that impossible. He had laid in his room thinking about his preveous life. Should he complain? He could, he thought, but won’t. During his life he had travelled to many beautiful places and seen many wonders. This is just one of the adventures that overcame him. His bones ached and his eyes burned into his head. He knew death would come for him and he took it calmly.

Would it have been any different if he weren’t there in bed, helpless? He tried not to think about it, but the words he heared from outside couldn’t leave him to his peace. They were going to vote for him just because they were too afraid to kill anybody who wasn’t dying already. But eventually they did. Some poor lad would also meet his fate. He wondered if he’d meet the lad in whatever came next. Maybe... He was ready to find out.

The fever continued to rise.

Glirdan closed his eyes for the last time.


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


Lossenatar smiled broadly. He couldn’t believe that the Ranger fell for the trick. He would have wanted to kill the Ranger, but not now. Somebody else would meet fate.

He opened his claw and the door. The darkness invited Lossenatar and he entered. So easy, he thought to himself. He walked to the bed and looked at his victim. The face looked so calm, how could it belong to somebody so cruel... Well, enough thinking, Lossenatar drew his claw back and prepared to strike.

He never struck, for he couldn’t. An immense pain filled the Vampire’s body. He felt a wind push him away from the bed. Lossenatar couldn’t scream, except in his mind. Blackness so perfect that even Lossenatar couldn’t see through it grasped him.

The Shade flung Lossenatar straight through the wall so that when the Vampire came back to his senses he was caughing blood on the pavement outside.


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


Many sleepless figures gathered on the square before the clock stuck. When it did, everybody who had the luck to sleep crawled out too.

Rikae brushed her hair back with her hand and smiled at Mac who stared into the fire.

Gil-Galad was thinking over the preveous day.

Boromir tried to ajust some of his dragon-slaying strategies into the current situation.

And Enohl the Oracle was sitting on Celuien waiting patiently for everybody to gather around.

”Hmm... Lies, lies, lies... Why do you always lie to each other, now look what you have done. Yes, a decision has been made, though some of you may regret it.

”Twice lost, but well alive. One of the members of the Fellowship, though not the one with the cross.”

People looked at each other waiting for somebody to start running or shouting. It suprised then that nothing like this happened.

Legate walked calmly forwards and said to the crowd, ”No way can we stand against a force like that, you Men, you deserve to live. I won’t say I’m happy with this, but be it so”.

He turned to face Enohl, ”What did the monster do to you, poor friend...”

Enohl rolled his head around and stood up, ”Humph, Lossenatar...”

”Yes, Lossenatar”, answered Legate.

”I always trusted you”.

”And I trusted you, Yulnagar...”

”It’s a pity...”

”What is, my lord?”

”You must now die”.

”I must now die...”

”Farewell”.

Legate smiled a bitter smile and kneeled before the Oracle. He put his long staff on the ground beside himself and looked down.

The people around were so absorbed by the event that most of them forgot to close their eyes.

The tall dark haired man suddenly began shrivel. Legate’s hair began turning gray, before falling off completely. His flesh started disappearing from his bones. As if age came to him many hundreds times faster than it should have. Legate fell to the ground eyes wide open. His skin wore off and pale bones showed. They too corroded and all that was left of Legate, or Lossenatar was the small pile of dust at the Oracle’s feet.

Enohl walked away.


-~~-----------------------------------------------------------------------~~-


The living:

Gil-Galad (Gil)
The Saucepan Man (Esspiem/SPM)
Rikae
Boromir88 (Boro)
Nogrod
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Eomer)
Thinlómien (Lomiella/Lommy)
Aganzir
Xyzzy
Macalaure (Mac)
Diamond18 (Di)
Shastanis Althreduin (Shasta)
Kitanna
Durelin
Rune Son of Bjarne (Rune)
The Sixth Wizard (Morgan/Sixth)

The dead:

Celuien (Cel) – Turned into a chair by the Oracle after being voted out on Day 1. Innocent.

Brinniel – Possessed by the Vampires to write poetry with her own blood on Night 2. Innocent.

Menel – Turned into a pipe by the Oracle after being voted out on Day 2. Innocent.

Roa – Possessed by the Vampires to torch herself on Night 3. Innocent.

Sleepy – Committed suicide by jumping off the highest tower on Night 3. Innocent.

Legate of Amon Lanc (Legate) – Aged to death in seconds after being voted out on Day 3. Vampire Ranger.

Glirdan (Glirdy) – Died of sickness in his own bed on Night 4. Innocent.


Day 4 has started. You may now talk.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I have to say that I was utterly furious when I first reviewed events at the end of yesterDay and ready to call you all ninnyhammers on the afterthread. But now I am rather surprised and delighted.

I must now be down to seven lives ... although I am somewhat honoured to become (as far as I know) the only player to have twice received the most votes on the game thread and yet still lived. :D

Here's yesterDay's "voting record":

Di: Glirdy (Glirdy 1)
Xyzzy: Nogrod (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1)
Gil: Shasta (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1)
Sixth: Durelin (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1)
Esspiem: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1)
Rikae: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 1, Esspiem 1)
Shasta: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Esspiem 1)
Boro: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Esspiem 2)
Lomiella: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Esspiem 3)
Kitanna: Eomer (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 2, Esspiem 3, Eomer 1)
Rune: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 3, Esspiem 3, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 3, Esspiem 4, Eomer 1)
Durelin: Legate (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Esspiem 4, Eomer 1)
Mac: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Esspiem 5, Eomer 1)
Nogrod: Esspiem (Nogrod 1, Glirdy 1, Shasta 1, Durelin 1, Legate 4, Esspiem 6, Eomer 1)

No vote stated: Eomer, Legate, Glirdy

I need to think about why Legate is dead and why I am still alive (I have some ideas) but, for now, I would be interested to hear from Eomer concerning his vote, and from the Lynch Seer.

One Vampire down, two to go. The Shade appears to know which side his bread is buttered on. I get the feeling that our luck is turning. :cool:

One sour note, though. It appears that the Vampires have identified our Ranger ...

[The Saucepan Man]

It appears that the Vampires have identified our Ranger ...Actually, it appears that I misread in my haste. I had thought that the Vampires had targetted the Ranger. But it appears that they actually targetted someone else (presumably Rikae) and that she was saved by the Shade.

[The Saucepan Man]

I think that, with the death of Glirdy and Legate, we can lay to rest any doubts that Rikae, Mac, Boro and Nogrod are anything other than what they have claimed (or been revealed) to be (and, believe me, I had my doubts before this Day began).

And am I also right in concluding that, unless Eomer was lying about the Day 1 votes (still a possibility) both Lomiella and Aganzir must be innocent and that, even if he did lie, at least one must still be innocent? With Boro and Mac both voting for Legate on Day 1, Celuien must have received at least 2 votes, one of which was Roa's.

[Kitanna]

With one vampire down and two to go I figure this is as good a time as any to say this:
I dreamt of Eomer with my first Shade dream. He's a vampire.

[The Saucepan Man]

Kitanna - If you are the Shade, why are you revealing? I mean, if you are, it's all very helpful of you and thank you and all that - but surely it puts you at risk of losing the game?

[Boromir88]

Funny how the day I don't vote for Legate he is the one that ends up dying...and I was right all a long.

As luck would have it us villagers have been amazingly fortunate as I was the lynch seer yesterday. I thought it was going to be Esspiem, but the riddle didn't make sense for him and figured out it was Legate, but I wasn't going to give him a license to kill either. So the riddle was:

”Twice lost, but well alive. One of the members of the Fellowship, though not the one with the cross.”

And Legate received 5 votes, which means either Eomer or Glirdan voted for Legate, or someone lied. Plus this means that at least one of the 6 who voted for Esspiem is a vampire...or the shade maybe?

I have too much work today this day, so I can't be around a lot and can't really be on until late tonight. I just wanted to share this information for everyone to mull over. I would be bragging right now that I knew Legate was a vampire, but I can't really because I didn't vote for him on the day he ended up getting lynched! :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Well I guess the shade couldn't have lied, because the shade (Kitanna) didn't vote for Esspiem. I see no reason to doubt Kitanna's claim and I say we go after Eomer today...which means based on the voting tally someone who voted for Esspiem has to be a wolf:

Rikae
Boro
Thinlomien
Aganzir
Macalaure
Nogrod

I'm innocent, I still trust Mac and Rikae to be known innocents. Which starts putting some doubt in my head about Nogrod's 'hunter' revelation, or leaves Thinlo and Aganzir as our final vampire. (If Kitanna is the shade...which I'm going to say she is).

[The Saucepan Man]

I am sure that there are answers to be found in the Day 1 voting. I messed up yesterDay in my musings in this regard because I somehow got it into my head that Nogrod had said that he had voted for Celuien and not Rikae.

So, bear with me while I go through it again ...

Stated votes for Rikae: Menel, Gil, Brinniel.

Of those, we know that Menel and Brinniel were innocent. Nogrod said yesterDay that he did not vote for Legate (as stated on Day 1) but instead voted for Rikae.

So we have three known votes for Rikae, possibly four (if Gil is innocent).

Stated votes for Legate: Boro, Mac and Nogrod.

As noted, Nogrod did not vote for Legate. So that’s two known votes for Legate.

Stated votes for Celuien: Lomiella, Eomer, Roa and Aganzir.

That’s one known vote for Celuien. But she must have received at least three to have been lynched instead of Rikae. Eomer, as Lynch Seer, claimed that Celuien had received five votes.

Possibility 1: Eomer is innocent and stated the votes correctly. It follows, in these circumstances, that Lomiella and Aganzir are most likely innocent and that at least one other innocent (probably two, as it is unlikely that Glirdy voted) stated a vote for someone else, but in fact voted for Celuien.

Possibility 2: Eomer is lying. But we know that Celuien must have received at least three votes. One of those was Roa’s Even if Eomer is lying, Lomiella and Aganzir are most likely innocent, since their two votes are the most likely explanation for Celuioen, rather than Rikae, being lynched.

Possibility 2 seems the most likely to me. If so, why would Eomer lie about the number of votes cast for Celuien unless he is a Vampire? In which case, Kitanna is telling the truth and is the Shade. On the other hand, in the unlikely event that Eomer is not a Vampire, Kitanna almost certainly is one.

So, it would seem sensible to lynch either Kitanna or Eomer toDay. My strong inclination is to go with the latter.

Unless I have messed up in my reasoning again - in which case, I should be grateful to have it pointed out.