Werewolf XLIV: In the House of Tom Bombadil

[Aganzir]

The summer of 2911 waned to autumn and then arrived winter. First snows appeared at the end of October. It was perfectly normal – until the Hobbits and other Northeners noticed that the snow didn't show any signs of melting, nor was the cold breaking. Earth was covered by a thick, white blanket that gained height daily. The sun had seemingly deserted the North. In December, food was already getting scarce. And then came the wolves.

**

Late one night, in the middle of December, a miserable figure scratched the door of a little house that was nestled under the shoulder of hills, at the edge of a forest. By the time the door was opened, a new layer of snow had almost covered its tracks. The creature was skinny and shivering, its white fur dull and heavy with frozen snow. It cowered from the light that came from the inside.

”Oh, look at her!” cried the woman at the door. ”She's sick and hungry. We can't leave her out there; she will freeze to death in no more than one night!”

The creature turned to look at the woman with a strange, almost triumphant expression in her feverish, gherkin-coloured eyes - as if she had understood every single word. Slowly, she pattered over the wide stone threshold, and a golden light was all about her.

**

After being banished by their villages and neighbours, some poor beggars had gathered together, eventually broken into the mounds and formed their own little community on the Barrow-downs. They weren't treated any more kindly by the winter than some others more fortunate. When everything burnable was burnt and everything edible, except for a certain duck, eaten, the unofficial leader of the outcasts, Nogrod the Agreeable, summoned a meeting in the Great Barrow.

”We can't keep going on like this”, he said. ”We must admit the inevitable: we're going to die if we don't get more food soon.”

”Aye,” observed Rikae the Kind, ”I get stomachaches from the food offerings left to the king with whom we share a barrow.”

”Don't you say I haven't told you to keep away from them! It's your own fault if you don't heed my words!” Durelin cried at her.

”And the Yule is only a few days away...” sighed McCaber sadly.

”Is there any way we could please the Powers of the West?” asked Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene.

”Like the people in the old tales!” continued satansaloser2005, knocking her stick on the floor. ”You know, the first year they sacrificed oxen, the second year men... And when they sacrificed the king in the third year, the crops returned...” She eyed Nogrod ponderingly.

”I've always found you more ox-looking than some people here,” Nerwen joined the discussion.

”Back to the business,” interrupted Boromir88 the Silent One. ”I say we don't go begging to Bree if we just can avoid it.”

”Because they would catch you and put you in jail for pickpocketing, eh?”

”That was not too kind of you, Rikae!” Mithalwen rebuked her.

”I suppose I'd get more food in prison than here anyway. Don't start quarrelling now.”

”Yes, I agree with you, Boro - we can't go there. They would just turn us out again...”

”Now, you're optimistic, A Little Green. They don't have any more food than we do but they don't want to eat their own relatives and neighbours,” THE Ka observed dryly.

”Daddy...” Meneltarmacil plucked at Boro's sleeve.

”What about asking that merry fellow down the hill if he could put us up for the Yule?” Mithalwen aired the thought that had probably crossed everyone's mind.

”Are you nuts, dear?” asked Nerwen, ”there's no trusting a person like that. I, for one, am not going to let my little one have any dealings with him!”

”Are you rather going to let your little one starve, then?” snapped Volo and put his hand protectively on McCaber's shoulder.

”Daddy!” Macalaure the Guileless plucked at Boro's sleeve.”

”You never know what mushrooms that grandpa will feed to your children!”

”But Mummy, mushrooms are good, aren't they?” Gwathagor looked confused.

”Daddy! There's a big dog at the door!”

**

The wolf has already been there for a while, observing the beggars and their argument. Now she starts walking towards them, her motions controlled yet graceful. She looks well-fed and well-pleased, her white fur is thick and shiny, her eyes gleam with amusement. And although she could be considered an easy prey by the starving, no one raises their hand against her. She walks to the middle of the ring, stretches and lies down. Then she opens her mouth, and her voice is like honey.

”What an awful weather, don't you think? I'm sure it must be rather horrible here in these cold and damp barrows...” She smiles at the nodding beggars. ”That's what we thought with my master also. Now, we got this idea of inviting you to be guests in his house, to feast and celebrate the Yule. Nice to see that the same idea has seemingly occurred to some of you as well,” she says, smiling at Mithalwen and Nerwen, and lets her gaze wander over the beggars, who eye one another reservedly, not knowing what to say.

Finally, Thinlómien decides for everybody.

”We accept your offer gratefully,” she says. Nerwen looks at her as if she wished to object, but doesn't say a word.

The wolf smiles again. ”You're welcome to come, then. Tomorrow, shall we say?” She gets up and is about to jump out, but a small voice stops her.

”What's your name? I have never seen a talking animal before.” The expression on McCaber's face is genuinely curious.

The wolf turns to look at the child. ”Oh, did I forget to introduce myself? So sorry. You can call me Death.”

**

That night some barrow-wights got caught by wolves. A blizzard hid the inhuman noises, but the beggars slept shivering, and every once in a while someone stirred for a moment to listen to the howling of the wind before dozing off again.

Behind the clouds, the Moon travelled its way through the sky. It was already sinking when three hideously deformed shadows returned to the barrows they had used to haunt. They picked themselves new bodies to inhabit.

**

In the mid-day, the beggars set off for the little house at the edge of the forest. They had taken with them the little property they had, and all were in a gay mood. Even the old Barrow-Wight was asked to join the merrymaking.

**

The players
Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars
his wife, Nerwen
Gwathagor, their child
elderly couple; Rikae the Kind
and Durelin
Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket
his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene
their children Macalaure the Guileless
and Meneltarmacil
satansaloser2005, a slightly mad crippled woman
Volo, a young widowed man
his child, the Right Honourable McCaber
THE Ka, a blind old woman
orphaned little Thinlómien
and her little sister A Little Green

It is now Night 1. The wolves may PM. No posting here yet.

[Aganzir]

The Yule has turned into night. It has begun to snow again, but inside the house it is warm and cosy. Although the room is otherwise dark, the embers are still glowing red in the wide hearth. Some people are sleeping in another room, but most have their mattresses laid on the floor and lie deep in drunken sleep, happy and their stomachs full after feasting. Someone snores lightly, one mutters something in his sleep.

Fear nothing! For tonight you are under the roof of Tom Bombadil!

Death has been curled up in front of the hearth for the most of the evening, only her eyes flickering greenish light every now and then, but now she gets up and stretches. Goldberry's words still echo in her ears.

She patters softly amidst the sleepers towards the wall and pushes a door open. With a new determination, she treads over the short passage until she comes to another door. Inside, two persons are sleeping. She stands upon the threshold for a moment, then enters the room.

**

Tom Bombadil wakes up suddenly. Sharp fangs tear the flesh of his throat.

”I am sorry, Tom,” an almost gentle voice whispers in his ear. ”You know, I always rather liked you.”

Tom's eyes are not quite merry anymore. He tries to lift his hand but doesn't manage to do it. Soft footsteps move to the other side of the bed.

”Besides, if I didn't know you don't really die...” A sound of a tearing fabric. ”At least this easily, I would probably just have evicted you for a while...” Death claws Goldberry's stomach open. ”But you cannot deny that it's much funnier this way. And you would have spoiled my Yule. I know you will understand.” She sounds almost apologetic.

When she is done, she leaves the room, in search for the Barrow-wight.

**

A sleeper wakes up suddenly. A dark shape, surrounded by dim, red light, is standing next to his mattress. For a moment he blinks his eyes, as if trying to remember where he is. Then, a look of recognition and affection passes over his face.

”What's this? A werewolf caught off his guard?” she mocks him gently.

”Has it begun?”

”Yes.”

”Why didn't you wake us up until now?” asks another voice.

”I wanted to have some fun all by myself. It's so much more intense, you know.”

”But you killed them all!”

”And you will kill the rest in nights to come. Fair enough.”

A third voice interrupts the discussion. ”The night is passing and we still have work to do.”

The corners of Death's mouth turn upwards. ”Good. Go plotting, then. And please take that green thing away with you. It smells.”

”Here is to victory!” the pack greets her.

”To world domination, rather!”

**

The beggars woke up in the grey morning only to notice that the fire had gone out and the house was cold. Neither Tom Bombadil nor Goldberry was to be seen. The whole world was silent; an oppressing, almost threatening air was about the house.

A slimy green trail led from one corner of the room to the door. At its end lay the shapeless body of the Barrow-wight.

This raised the beggars' suspicions.

Rikae and Durelin rushed to the room where the host and the hostess were supposed to be sleeping, but there was no one there. Only the torn blankets bore evidence of that something out of ordinary had indeed happened in the night.

Nogrod and Volo tried the front door of the house, but it was stuck.

”It looks like the lock has frozen,” observed Boro.

”We cannot get out,” said Nerwen.

”Trapped!” cried Ka. ”Why did we delay?”

But the house wasn't as deserted as it had first seemed. The white wolf was lying on her back in front of the newly rekindled fire, and the children were stroking her.

”What on earth has happened here?” asked Mithalwen, a trace of panic in her voice.

Death opened one eye, then turned to her stomach.

”Nothing of great interest.” She smirked maliciously. ”Some sweet little bunnies just got hungry in the night, I think.”

”Speak more plainly,” demanded sally.

”If you insist...” Death stretched the words. She was seemingly enjoying the situation. ”Naturally, I know nothing about it. I just happened to pass by last night and saw three werewolves chatting in a corner. They're going to kill you all, that's what they said.”

A shocked silence followed her words. Her smile grew wider.

”Oh my,” whispered Nogrod. ”Escaping hunger and frost to be caught by wolves...”

Lommy started crying and hugged Greenie tightly. Macalaure looked shaken and just sat where he was, Menel ran to his mother.

”I feel so helpless,” McCaber sobbed.

However, there was one who knew from the first moment what he was going to do:

”I want to kill them!” shouted Gwathagor, "and I have a foolproof way to find them! Everyone who calls me Gwathy is a wolf!"

”How aggressive a child you are, little Gwathy,” observed Death, turned to another side and began to sleep.

**

Alive:
Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars
his wife, Nerwen
Gwathagor, their child
elderly couple; Rikae the Kind
and Durelin
Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket
his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene
their children Macalaure the Guileless
and Meneltarmacil
satansaloser2005, a slightly mad crippled woman
Volo, a young widowed man
his child, the Right Honourable McCaber
THE Ka, a blind old woman
orphaned little Thinlómien
and her little sister A Little Green

Dead:
Tom Bombadil (ranger) - killed on Night 1
Goldberry (seer) - killed on Night 1
The Barrow-wight (hunter) - killed on Night 1

It is now Day 1. Wolves stop PMing. Start talking.

[Gwathagor]

First!

[Thinlómien]

Quite a disgusting situation we're in... trapped in a house, our hosts dead and companied by a rather annoying hound. :p

Well, what is there to say, except to comment that Gwathy looks rather over-enthusiastic? ;)

At least that I'm interested to see how a giftedless village works and rather enthusiastic too: now we can pursue suspicious behaviour without worrying that we're flushing out gifteds. Personally, I think this is a great advantage for us and also with no gifteds we can have no gifted impersonators...

I'm also looking forward to taking the challenge of using my own brains instead of waiting for a seer revelation. ;)

[Thinlómien]

It is now Day 1. Wolves stop PMing. Start talking.Just noticed this: looks like only wolves can talk now. So did we now reveal ourselves, Gwathie? :eek:

:p ;)

[Gwathagor]

Hush.

[Gwathagor]

Wait, what did you call me?

[Gwathagor]

Well, I supposed I DID rather ask for it by making such a fuss on the admin thread. :(

[Volo]

Meh... I might be around tomorrow, but right now I'm going to do my homework, search for my batteries and listen to Ulver. I leave the work for my dear son, he's old enough to be responcible for his and his daddy's lives.

[Thinlómien]

Well, I supposed I DID rather ask for it by making such a fuss on the admin thread. :(Yes, you did. :p But now that I've done it once I doubt I need to do it again...

But is it just the two of us here...?

edit: xed with Volo who made my question unreasonable

[THE Ka]

Great, trapped. Well, at least this place has food, and if we run out we can always eat the mice from the cellar...

*mouse scurries across the floor to a scrap of bread*

Steady... Thankfully my hearing or sense for touch hasn't gone.

*smacks the mouse with walking cane and carefully roasts it on the fire*

There you go kiddies, now be sure to share.
You two, we have a crisis to deal with, you can flirt later. Oh and btw, Gwathy is a fitting name, or maybe Gwathyn, hmm...

I love being old, blind and grumpy. :D Thanks for the role Agan.

Well, I won't be around for another few hours, because of classes and such, but I should be back well before the deadline. Take care.

~ Ka, the old blind and grumpy mouse killing woman

[Nogrod]

I think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son... :rolleyes:

I'm looking forwards to this as well as I tend to be the "always look at the bright side of life" -person. With no gifteds we really have to work this out ourselves and that sounds like a challenge. Managing that of course means we need to actually play, everyone of us. No seer will pick the under the radar creepies for us and no ranger will defend our assets either. I guess I need not continue this train of thought any further at this point...

I'd suggest getting rid of that wolfsie with her creepy name as our first step but I'm afraid that's not within our powers. :(

EDIT: x'd with the Ka

[Volo]

Ok, last check.

I'm going to vote the quietest person (if it isn't me). ;)

[Macalaure]

At last, at last, no more second-guessing "X is acting strange, but wait, he might be gifted, better say nothing". No more laying low hoping that the seer will stay hidden and get it right in the end. It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped. :rolleyes:

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again. Why was he, who has to fear this more than most, the first to mention that the wolves might be after our assets?
Weak suspicion? Definitely. Only suspicion at all? Absolutely. Would I even have mentioned it if there was anything better to be found anywhere? Probably not.
Oh, the joys of posting on the first page of a werewolf thread. :smokin:

First!First to be lynched? Not a problem. I can manage. :p

[Boromir88]

What's with the excessive use of the smilies?

My head is going to explode (:eek:)...so after this moment:

:smokin:

I forbid the further use of smilies...:rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

With no gifteds we really have to work this out ourselves and that sounds like a challenge. Managing that of course means we need to actually play, everyone of us. No seer will pick the under the radar creepies for us and no ranger will defend our assets either. I guess I need not continue this train of thought any further at this point...I can but agree. Now, I this certainly must be the first time in history that I and Nogrod urge people to talk... :p ;)

I do not wih to start the loud vs quiet debate once again, but the situation being what it is, if no one seems particularly suspicious to me toDay (like sometimes happens on Day1) I will vote someone who contributes little, given that there is such person. Now, of course I hope I need not make such vote, not only because it feels a bit wasted (being a shot in the dark), but also because if I end up doing that it means the Day has been rather unfruitful. I think making one more person join the Fenris pack toDay would not be a bad idea... (on the other hand, tell me when it isn't... :rolleyes: )

edit: xed with Volo, Mac and Boro - yay!

[Boromir88]

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again.~Mac
Actually I'm feeling bad about Thinlo...again...confident, a swagger of arrogance, and an aura of chipperness. The attitude I would expect from a wolf in a village with no seer to spot them and no fear except the fear of the votes from ordinary, clueless, villagers.

[Thinlómien]

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again. Why was he, who has to fear this more than most, the first to mention that the wolves might be after our assets?Wha..at? I don't follow your reasoning for why is that suspicious.

Weak suspicion? Definitely. Only suspicion at all? Absolutely. Would I even have mentioned it if there was anything better to be found anywhere? Probably not.Am I stupid or are you vague? :) What are you talking about here? Your own feelings about Nogrod's post or...?

Mac is definitely odd. I mean, I don't get his logic and I completely missed his first joke too. At last, at last, no more second-guessing "X is acting strange, but wait, he might be gifted, better say nothing". No more laying low hoping that the seer will stay hidden and get it right in the end. It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped. Not that any of this measn he's necessarily suspicious. :p

edit: xed with Boro

[Thinlómien]

Actually I'm feeling bad about Thinlo...again...confident, a swagger of arrogance, and an aura of chipperness. The attitude I would expect from a wolf in a village with no seer to spot them and no fear except the fear of the votes from ordinary, clueless, villagers.Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf. I never really enjoy it. So if I'm genuinely confident and enjoying myself, I'm innocent. Which of course doesn't mean I couldn't try to feign confidence if I was a wolf. But I'm bad at deception so if I'm only playing confident I'm probably ringing false or overdoing it...

And the term "swagger of arrogance" made me miss Anguirel, I wish he'd come back some day. Now, I know, that was totally unrelated but it just crossed my mind. Especially as it feels odd to be described to have "a swagger of arrogance". But I'm taking it as a compliment. :D

[Meneltarmacil]

I really do not like the look of Lommy here. She seems to be deliberately provoking Gwathagor and casting suspicion on him for no good reason. Could be nothing, but it still isn't helping anything.

I also predict that Boromir88 will do something in the future that appears innocent to everyone except me. I will become suspicious of him, and he'll start attacking me if he hasn't done so already. He'll be innocent during the whole thing, though.

[Thinlómien]

I really do not like the look of Lommy here. She seems to be deliberately provoking Gwathagor and casting suspicion on him for no good reason. Could be nothing, but it still isn't helping anything.Provoking? Yes, deliberatedly. Casting suspicion? *raises eyebrow* Not so that I can see it. That was a curious accusation.

[satansaloser2005]

Meh... I might be around tomorrow, but right now I'm going to do my homework, search for my batteries and listen to Ulver. I leave the work for my dear son, he's old enough to be responcible for his and his daddy's lives.


Yeah, he'll be responsible for ENDING his daddy's life. Really, to leave such a child as Cabbie to his own devices is bordering on suicide. When you finish your studies, do find yourself a nice clinic; I'm sure they'll be able to help. ;)

As for Dr. Gwathenstein, is this the truth? Are you volunteering yourself as the first lynching victim? *pats the little kamikaze on the shoulder and pinches his cheek* Alas, I can't take you up on your offer, dearie. I promised Cabbie he'd garner my vote this game. And being one of the eldest members of our village, I feel obligated to set an example and stay true to my word. *puts her glasses on and squints maliciously in Cabbie-Kabob's direction*

P.S. Lest I end up in the same boat as last time, yes I'm TEASING Cabbie, not actually going after him. Yet. :p
P.P.S. Agan, if you want to have me listed as Sally as opposed to my actual username, that's fine with me; it saves you some keystrokes. Or you can just call me Sally the Insufferable :smokin:

[Meneltarmacil]

More along the lines of "jokingly casting suspicion" than anything else. Check the abuse you gave him in your second post. I can see it was intended as a joke, but wolves have shown a tendency to toss out "silly" suspicions on Day 1.

EDIT: X-posted with Sally.

[Macalaure]

Wha..at? I don't follow your reasoning for why is that suspicious.Not necessarily suspicious, but strange. Almost like waving a flag saying "I'm a good kill".

What are you talking about here?About it being very early Day One and there being nearly nothing to go on yet.

Mac is definitely odd. I mean, I don't get his logic and I completely missed his first joke too.Now slowly there. You bring out terms like "definitely odd" after only one short post of mine? I think you're rather quick to accuse there.

Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf. I never really enjoy it. So if I'm genuinely confident and enjoying myself, I'm innocent. Which of course doesn't mean I couldn't try to feign confidence if I was a wolf. But I'm bad at deception so if I'm only playing confident I'm probably ringing false or overdoing it...Would it be far-fetched to paraphrase this paragraph by "When I'm a wolf, I play like this. But now I play like that. Ergo: I'm not a wolf. Of course, I could feign it, but could these eyes lie. :Merisu:"?

:p

[Thinlómien]

More along the lines of "jokingly casting suspicion" than anything else. Check the abuse you gave him in your second post. I can see it was intended as a joke, but wolves have shown a tendency to toss out "silly" suspicions on Day 1.And innocents never toss out silly suspicions, right? ;) As to that second post of mine, well if you were taking it seriously, it would incriminate me as well as him and I can't see the actual advantage for a wolf for making such an "accusation". Not that it would be of any advantage for an innocent either.

edit: xed with Mac

[Thinlómien]

Now slowly there. You bring out terms like "definitely odd" after only one short post of mine? I think you're rather quick to accuse there."Definitely odd" is not an accusation. It is an observation. And I simply commented on what I had seen that far, I can't see anything suspicious with that. If it comforts you, you're definitely less weird now, even though you're casting suspicion at a weird direction. ;)

Would it be far-fetched to paraphrase this paragraph by "When I'm a wolf, I play like this. But now I play like that. Ergo: I'm not a wolf. Of course, I could feign it, but could these eyes lie. "?:D Possibly, possibly not. :p

[Boromir88]

Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf.~Thinlo
Flaw? My logic have a flaw? Touchee, Thinlo, touchee.

But to counter...those past times there be gifteds, there be no gifteds here, which may turn a timid and nervous wolf into a confident and chipper one.

I also predict that Boromir88 will do something in the future that appears innocent to everyone except me. I will become suspicious of him, and he'll start attacking me if he hasn't done so already.~Menel
I'm glad you've accepted fact and are fully prepared to face your destiny.

[Nogrod]

Good to see things starting to happen albeit slowly.

I'll put my two cents into this as well.

Disregarding any timezone-issues and other RL hindrances I'd say that at this point both The Ka and Volo give me mildly bad vibes. Possibly Gwath as well but not so much.

Now why is that? This is a matter of principle in the first place.

Because they have played it the most safe not lending themselves or their ideas to the discussion (in hope of being forgotten but still taking part?).

Mac and Boro have already cast some suspcions around and Lommy has pointed out things in others' posting as well. That's what we need to do to both look at the reactions and to gather information about what others think (or what they want us to believe they think).

I know it's a bit early to start suspecting Ka or Volo for real about non-posting (there was little for them to go on at that time) but let me use them as examples here and as their behaviour this far meets the problem I'm talking about. My opinion sure is liable to change if they come back and start posting later toDay.

I had a wonderful but somewhat frustrating eperience the last time I played. I posted only once in the first part of Day1 and a few short ones in the end of the Day and what happened? Unlike oftentimes when I'm either lynched or getting the second highest vote I got almost no suspicion and sailed nicely through the Day.

What do we learn from here? If you don't speak you're rarely mentioned and when you're rarely mentioned you're not lynched.

So unless there are no real suspcions in the end of this Day I will be voting for someone not taking part openly - eg. saying who s/he thinks is suspicious and why. It is all the more important in this game as there are no gifteds. As I said already: no one will dream our silent murderers to us but they need to be lynched. And with no ranger we're in danger of losing our helpfuls sooner than later - so that's an urgency matter: the weight of possible submarines may get heavy soon. (Hopefully this answers your question as well Mac?)

EDIT: x'd with a host of posts...

[satansaloser2005]

I really do not like the look of Lommy here. She seems to be deliberately provoking Gwathagor and casting suspicion on him for no good reason. Could be nothing, but it still isn't helping anything.

I concur with Little Miss Lommie. They're just two kids having some fun. Boys (and girls) will be boys (and girls) as the saying goes.

I interrupt my own regularly scheduled post so that you young ones may laugh at an old lady. I just noticed that the three "night kills" were listed as gifteds. Very nice touch, Mistress Agan, Currently Reigning Princess of Narrations. I quite like it. I feel dumb for not noticing it right away, but it's amusing nonetheless.

Back to business. Young Mac, why do you feel the need to so quickly label Little Lommie as a wolf? You and your brother Menel seem to take what she says and use it to cast her in an evil light. You should really be nicer to little girls, or your parents may make you sleep outside tonight.
On the other hand, I do think it's odd that Little Lommie explains herself like that. "When I'm innocent, I'm chill, but if I'm a wolf, I'm a nervous wreck." Sorry Lommie, but I think you have the capacity to fake levelheadedness beautifully.
On the other other hand....wait. I only have two. *yells* Could someone lend an old lady a hand? Thank you. Okay, on the other other hand (Rikae the Kind's to be exact; how....kind of her) I do the same thing a lot of times. I'm a terrible bluff, so if I'm lying it's pretty easy to catch me on it. Besides, I'm insufferably honest, which also means that if I am a wolf, I won't lie about it. Perhaps Little Lommie is the same way, which after playing a few times with her is a distinct possibility. Meh. I still want to kill Cabbie. ;)

EDIT: X'd with everything since Mac's post on Lommie

[Gwathagor]

I'm not going to say anything yet, NOT because I'm trying to fly under the radar, but because I'm not sure what to make of the first page. There's so much speculative finger-pointing that goes on on the first day, and so little substance. At this point, everyone looks equally suspicious to me.

I promise I'll contribute in a few hours after I've eaten.

Meneltarmacil used my full name! :cool:

[Nogrod]

Menel worries me somewhat. If he is a wolf trying to look helpful and active what he has said would be reasonable indeed. After Boro made his first general suspcions on Lommy (about her overall style) Menel jumps in to second the suspcion using Lommy's banter with Gwath as a reason to suspect her (which clearly misses the mark). He also gets defensive after Lommy answers him and starts talking about wolves tendency to make silly suspicions... which I do find quite ad hoc.

Menel also could be interpreted to try to make Boro feel good by insisting that even if there'd be some rants between them (like there tends to be) Boro would be innocent. Now how come does he know that unless he's a wolf?


It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped.Now this wasn't actually necessary now was it? I know innocents do weird things as well but somehow this is a bit odd. It's a joke yes but still after Menel's posting possibly the single most suspicious points made toDay this far. Which is not much...

A few ideas thrown into the air before I go to sleep...

Sally I just can't read.

Boro is hard to read as well but for different reasons.

Lommy feels innocent. I mean she's like that. Although it often happens that those you know from RL are the best to fool you...

[satansaloser2005]

A few ideas thrown into the air before I go to sleep...

Sally I just can't read.


That's okay love. No one ever can. :p

Alrighty young whippersnappers. I'm off to work. Make Granny Sally lots and lots of posties while I'm gone, okay chillens? :)

[Meneltarmacil]

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

*sigh* And now there's my playing style coming back to bite me. Why must I always focus on a single suspect to the exclusion of all else?

Oh, and Nogrod, my comment about Boro being innocent was made because he usually was innocent whenever I suspected him. I am not certain of his role by any means.

[McCaber]

Nice to see you, too, Sally. As much as I don't want to become a Cabe-kabob, maybe I'll actually give you something to look at this time. And Pappa Volo, I'll try not to disappoint you toDay.

I do enjoy the more experienced ones throwing around suspicion. So I think I'll try it too:

I like how Gwath is refraining from forming an opinion. He could be not trying to leave a paper trail of suspects. Not a full-on point yet, but it could become one.

Anyway, I'll return soon with some serious thoughts in a while. Supper awaits, if I can find some in this house of doom.

[THE Ka]

I do not wih to start the loud vs quiet debate once again

I don't care what the rest of you think, but if I have to suffer another one of those arguements I'll club over my own head...
Thankfully, as Menel has already pointed out it is safe to say the majority of us have played before or with one another so we don't have to have a coffee chat about playing styles all the time.

but let me use them as examples here and as their behaviour this far meets the problem I'm talking about.

No hurt taken Nogrod, I just wanted to let everyone know that my posting will be sporatic at times due to the callings of RL. It's a healthy thing to suspect one another, and probably would be an honor to the game if we at least at fun with it. Which as a warning right now, I tend to take the game too lightly, so if I unintentually hurt someone, I am sorry.
I felt like I did that last time I played, so I'll try not to be so sporatic in my nature, but it will be very hard.

And innocents never toss out silly suspicions, right?

Heh heh... It is always fun to see how many Schrodinger's Wolf scenarios we can come up with.

Now for the part some of you will hate me for, but I'm going to take an observing stance for awhile, because that is what I do (even if I'm apparently... blind...), and return once I'm finished with schoolwork and taming the disaster zone of my house.
Ta ta for now.

~ Ka

[Nerwen]

II think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son... :rolleyes:

I'm looking forwards to this as well as I tend to be the "always look at the bright side of life" -person. With no gifteds we really have to work this out ourselves and that sounds like a challenge. Managing that of course means we need to actually play, everyone of us. No seer will pick the under the radar creepies for us and no ranger will defend our assets either. I guess I need not continue this train of thought any further at this point...

I'd suggest getting rid of that wolfsie with her creepy name as our first step but I'm afraid that's not within our powers. :(

EDIT: x'd with the Ka

I'm glad to see everyone loking on the bright side– of course that's only to be expected of my husband. He only recently stopped referring to this winter as a "cold snap".

I seem to recall from the old tales that gifteds were quite useful in our ancestor's villages.

At last, at last, no more second-guessing "X is acting strange, but wait, he might be gifted, better say nothing". No more laying low hoping that the seer will stay hidden and get it right in the end.

Yes, but let's not allow that to get twisted into, "well, hey, it doesn't matter who we lynch". I suspect the wolves may try that.

I don't have time to say any more (or read everything properly), but I'm a bit worried about why everyone is going after the poor orphan Lommy. It wasn't nice of her to pick on my son, but children will be children. I really think it was just a joke. Although:

Would it be far-fetched to paraphrase this paragraph by "When I'm a wolf, I play like this. But now I play like that. Ergo: I'm not a wolf. Of course, I could feign it, but could these eyes lie. :Merisu:"?

Well, it's possible...

I can't say anymore now... working my fingers to the bone,I am, and does anyone care? *goes off muttering*

[Durelin]

*wakes up*

Wha? Huh? Yes, of course, absolutely right... *mumbles*

Well, this brings back some memories... Back in 457 - of the First Age, mind - yeah, then there were real Werewolves, back when Sauron ruled the Island...

Wait, where am I? Rikae, where are you?!

*tries to relax without falling back to sleep*

Right...well...I don't see anything wrong with good little Lommy, but I am hardly surprised she's getting attention. She's just doing a lot of talking, and no one's too fond of reading through page after page... Just seems Nogrod and Boro and Mac and...who else in this game likes all that analyizing stuff?...haven't gotten quite warmed up yet for anything too lengthy, anyway, so she's the biggest target at the moment.

Really I think Lommy's behaviour can easily be explained by her youth. Lots of energy there. Of course, some of us are hardly acting our age... *glances at Sally*

Macalaure did rather jump on her, but he's just as young and hasty.

*sighs* I can see already I'm going to have trouble understanding you people. Some of you are certainly mad. *glances at Sally, then at Nogrod* I mean, an agreeable, optimistic beggar?!

[Gwathagor]

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

Huh. This seems unlikely to me. I mean, obviously the player would like to maintain some kind of general consistency regardless of role, so that it's not immediately apparent when they are a wolf, BUT: 1) their goals are going to be different, and so the playing style would have to alter somewhat to suit those goals, and 2) not all players are going to be able to avoid acting different when they are a wolf, if only for lack of confidence.

Good to see Durelin up and about. Who hasn't posted yet? Mithalwen and A Little Green?

[Durelin]

Okay, wait. Who is this 'Little Green Person'??

[Boromir88]

Interesting...what to make of this.

Sally says Mac is quick in labelling Thinlo a wolf:

Back to business. Young Mac, why do you feel the need to so quickly label Little Lommie as a wolf? You and your brother Menel seem to take what she says and use it to cast her in an evil light.

Durelin concurs:

Macalaure did rather jump on her, but he's just as young and hasty.

Yet it was myself who first made a connection between Thinlo and wolfishness.

What to make of this?

Maybe they are both raising a point that Mac was quick to switch from Nogrod to Thinlo...hmm that would be a good eye from our two elders in the town. Or maybe they (as wolves) are seeking to try to focus suspicion on Mac based on Thinlo's earlier concerns?

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Gwathagor]

Who accused Lommy more? You (Boro) or Mac?

[Durelin]

What to make of this?

Your post was too small. I scrolled right past it. :p

Who accused Lommy more? You (Boro) or Mac?

All I can say to that is...el-oh-el, mate, el-oh-el. I have definitely missed this werewolf stuff. :D

[Meneltarmacil]

Frankly, I am somewhat puzzled as to why Macalaure should make a big deal out of Nogrod's "protect our assets" line. The leap from that line to "Oh, he must be referring to himself as an asset to avoid being lynched" seems pretty weak to me. All I see in Nogrod's line is a simple statement that we can't rely on a ranger to protect us.

[Gwathagor]

My point being, Boromir, that Durelin and Sally may simply have seen Mac's accusation of Lommy as more serious than yours. I don't think that the circumstances should give us any reason to think there's a conspiracy there. You might have a point regarding Mac appearing to switch his suspicions, but that looks more to me like first-day-fishing than anything creepy. That's all I was trying to say.

[Rikae]

I'm sorry to show up so late, but the day starts while I'm in class and I've had quite a lot going on here until now...
I haven't had a chance to go carefully over the thread -- it looks as though Macalaure is once again the center of controversy. There does seem to be something slightly edgy in his manner toDay, at first glance. I'm going to go over things again and post my thoughts soon.

[THE Ka]

All I see in Nogrod's line is a simple statement that we can't rely on a ranger to protect us.


Which doesn't count to begin with, since there exists no more of the sort.
I guess it is a bit of a hard transition, since we're all fairly used to having a good collection of gifted's tip toeing and, well, singing around here...
It is safe to say there won't be many alliances this time. I would say that all of this talking about gifted's would be distraction, but I don't have room to talk either because here I am now as well, and this is my first time playing without them. Though, I think we've established very entishly that yes, there are no more gifted's and there won't be for the rest of the game.

Okay, wait. Who is this 'Little Green Person'??

A fellow member and player o'course. He hasn't come by yet, but there is still plenty of time.

He could be not trying to leave a paper trail of suspects. Not a full-on point yet, but it could become one.

Well of course, all cats are black at night...

Or in this case, wolves, as I seem to remember before m'eyes faded. :rolleyes:

So, maybe we need to bring a bit more sunshine out, as Yule has passed and a new sun is coming. Though, that requires a bit more investigation of course. :rolleyes:

~ Ka

[Boromir88]

Your post was too small. I scrolled right past it.~Durelin
Should I speak louder or write in a bigger font?

My point being, Boromir, that Durelin and Sally may simply have seen Mac's accusation of Lommy as more serious than yours.~Gwathagor
There's your first mistake, I'm always serious, and it would be foolhardy to think otherwise of my suspicions.

[THE Ka]

I'm always serious, and it would be foolhardy to think otherwise of my suspicions.


Hee hee...

Yes, but also not to take you so seriously either.

Should I speak louder or write in a bigger font?

You should bring back the disclaimer in your signature again...

Now how come does he know that unless he's a wolf?

Past... Experience?

Though, I guess this is a new game, so all of our usual role handouts have been completely changed, and it is a pain looking at the majority of you without thinking about any past games, because there are so many past gifted's here.
Yes, I'm admitting that I have no idea about any of you yet.

Menel jumps in to second the suspcion using Lommy's banter with Gwath as a reason to suspect her (which clearly misses the mark). He also gets defensive after Lommy answers him and starts talking about wolves tendency to make silly suspicions... which I do find quite ad hoc.

Will have to agree with this, they were mostly playing in character and on the joke of Gwath made in the Admin thread. It was a nice way to break the first day ice though.
Sometimes in character or back-forth jokes are suspicious and useful, sometimes Schordinger's wolf is just schordinger's wolf. It's talked into existance, but really, there's nothing there of a threat.

I'm trying to make myself think more about all the posts, so that hopefully I'll have something real to say later on, hope that others do too.

[Rikae]

Hmm, okay. It seems to me people are falling into old patterns more than ever - Nogrod advocating lynching the quiet people, Mac suspecting Nogrod for rather flimsy reasons, Gwath underestimatiing the dramatic abilities of wolves, Menel being aggressive, etc.

In this vein, my first reaction to Nerwen's post was "wolf!" but I think it might be wise to try to look beyond what is apparently a bias on my part. If anyone's interested, it was the structure of her post -- banter, followed by a rather off-the-wall bit of wolf-strategy-theory, followed by a defense. Too people-pleasing, I thought, too cautious.

However, although that was my first reaction, I'm aware I have a tendency to always find Nerwen suspicious (and Durelin, and Aganzir... just laying my cards on the table), so, on second glance...

There is something that I don't like about Gwathette, and also particularly about his relationship to the Sally-Durelin-Boro-Mac fiasco. The former has a sort of cautious jitteryness about him which is often seen among wolf-cubs, and he protests too much. There is something strange about the way he jumps on Boro's comment about Sally and Durelin's words about Mac suspecting Lommy. Whoa, that is complicated. Let me trace it back...for my own benefit, if no one else's.

-Mac posts a *very* weak suspicion of Nogrod. I don't know how he arrived at this conclusion about what Nogrod meant by "assets" -- I myself read it as if it referred to the absent seer or known innocents we would have in a normal game. I could chalk it up either to the misreading of a non-native English speaker, or eagerness to start the ball rolling (which could be innocent or not, of course.) His following lines, as well as the self-deprecating opener, seem a little excessive, though.

-Boro posts suspecting Lommy. While I don't agree with the assessment - it doesn't seem odd to me if Lommy is chipper - and don't necessarily trust Boro, there isn't really anything objectionable. It's the sort of blunt accusation, though, which might make a Lommywolf (if one exists) nervous.

-Lommy crosses with Boro, making a rather odd response to Mac. To me, it looks as though a tentative and not entirely honest "you look odd, but I'm not going to be the first to suspect you" sort of thing.

-Lommy defends herself from Boro. Now, this is the sort of defense that twists one's head up in "is she the sort of woman who would put the poison into her own cup, or her enemy's" knots. A wolfish Lommy would know better than to give such a vociferous and flimsy explanation -- a wolfish Lommy would also know we would think that. Therefore, we (or I, at any rate) can't deduce much from this alone.

-Mac replies to Lommy - I don't read this as a stronger attack than Boro's, by any means. There is a lightheartedness in the last bit, and it is, after all, a self-defense. Still, there is something odd about the way he accuses her of being quick to accuse. He seems over-eager (and in his earlier post, over-apologetic.)

-Sally suggests Mac and Menel are targeting Lommy, but then suspects Lommy herself in the next breath, then says she does the same herself. Ok, confusion, self contradiction -- who am I to criticise that? Analyzing Sally, I fear, would take another post at least this long.
However, it *is* odd that she picks Mac and Menel to mention. She also says if she's a wolf, she won't lie about it... that's nice to know, Sally. Would you be so kind as to say "I am not a wolf" for us please? :Merisu:

- Durelin says Macalaure "jumped on" Lommy. I suppose this can be explained by the fact that it's already been mentioned and, as she says, she didn't see Boro's post. As for what the mention is supposed to accomplish, saying Mac jumped on Lommy and then "absolving" him with in-character banter is kind of slippery. The reader might absorb the meme "Mac jumped on Lommy" while also assuming Durelin doesn't think this is important.

- Boro notices Sally and Durelin's mistake (?) and suggests both are wolves. I suppose that is possible. It's also possible that Durelin is, and trying to help along the beginnings of a bandwagon; it's possible just Sally is, and Durelin is a misguided ordo. It's possible none of them are, though, and what looks oddest of all to me is:

- Gwath jumps in with an abrubt -- and off-base, I would say -- defense of Sally and Durelin. He then explains this in a second post -- it seems like he realises he's made a mistake and is trying to fix it, too late.

This whole mess suggests to me the possibility that Gwath may be a wolf with either Sally or Durelin... however, I am not entirely comfortable with Lommy's or Macalaure's behavior either. I have a feeling I may be able to get a read on the latter after a few more posts, though (not to brag or anything...)

EDIT: X'd with THE Ka, name-bolding.

[satansaloser2005]

For Rikae:

I'm not a wolf. :) And don't worry, I really am not a wolf. I promise.



I hate first days; they seem so silly and meaningless until after they're over, and then there's tons to analyze. I really should vote before I get to bed, because I have to work until two (DL is at one my time) and I probably won't want to get up early and vote. But I have nothing really to go on, just silly banter and half-hearted accusations. I'll think about it a bit and then come back.

[Nerwen]

Hello, everyone. I'm sorry for my lack of contribution so far, but I've been in class all day– my previous post was made in a a tiny window of opportunity and with my tutor breathing down my neck– I don't think I've started the term very well...:(

Well, I've skimmed the thread– and what a tangle we have here. I need to read in detail before I can form any opinion.

Back soon.

[Gwathagor]

- Gwath jumps in with an abrubt -- and off-base, I would say -- defense of Sally and Durelin. He then explains this in a second post -- it seems like he realises he's made a mistake and is trying to fix it, too late.

It was less a defense of Sally and Durelin than it was a criticism of Boromir's post. I figure that if I'm not going to make first-day accusations like everyone else, I can at least try to find flaws in other people's posts.

[Gwathagor]

I hate first days; they seem so silly and meaningless until after they're over, and then there's tons to analyze. I really should vote before I get to bed, because I have to work until two (DL is at one my time) and I probably won't want to get up early and vote. But I have nothing really to go on, just silly banter and half-hearted accusations. I'll think about it a bit and then come back.

I agree; first days are rubbish until they're over, after which they're just cryptic. Hence my hesitation about calling anyone out yet.

[Nerwen]

Okay, I've read a bit more now.

First up, Thinlómien–

I still can't see anything at all wolfish in her early baiting of Gwath. It looks perfectly innocent to me and I can't for the life of me see why Menel seized on it. However, I agree with Mac and Boro that this

Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf. I never really enjoy it. So if I'm genuinely confident and enjoying myself, I'm innocent. Which of course doesn't mean I couldn't try to feign confidence if I was a wolf. But I'm bad at deception so if I'm only playing confident I'm probably ringing false or overdoing it...

doesn't look too good– protesting too much and could be read as a double– bluff. On the other hand, she might be getting nervous under pressure– it happens to innocents too.

[Gwathagor]

I'm going to have to vote in the next 15 minutes, since I'll be in history class (19th Century Paris, if anyone is interested) during Armageddon -- I mean, the deadline.

[Gwathagor]

[QUOTE=Rikae;548760]- Gwath jumps in with an abrubt -- and off-base, I would say -- defense of Sally and Durelin. He then explains this in a second post -- it seems like he realises he's made a mistake and is trying to fix it, too late./QUOTE]

I should also point out, Rikae, that I didn't actually defend Sally and Durelin until my second post - the "fix-it" post - in which I explicitly make them part of my argument. If I was trying to downplay any association with them, then I did a pretty poor job.

[Gwathagor]

For the sake of justice and informed voting, I am going to hold off for the time being. I'll get up early, read any new posts, and vote then (probably around 2:00 GMT). I'll still miss an important part of the Day, but that's the best I can do. Alas and alack. Good night. Happy...werewolfing.

[Nerwen]

Next, Macalaure–

Seems rather jumpy, and, as others have mentioned, his argument against Nogrod is extremely strained. However it was early in the Day and he could have been just trying to get people talking. I say this because he did something similar last time, when he was innocent (and we lynched him).

[Nerwen]

Menel–

Follows Boro's suspicion of Lommy, though he gives his own, very weak, grounds.

Later says this

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

Which looks to me like he's saying, "See? I didn't jump on Boro's suggestions at all!"

EDIT: accidentally put in an extra quote

[Nerwen]

The Ka–

Is apparently trying to win a prize for saying the least in the most words. A possible "safe" wolf-tactic?

[Thinlómien]

Ah, the good old Days1s suck discussion... how I've been missing it.... :rolleyes:

And with no ranger we're in danger of losing our helpfuls sooner than later - so that's an urgency matter: the weight of possible submarines may get heavy soon.This just rhymes so beautifully that I had point it out. :D But I had an actual question too: I suppose submarines mean slip-under-the-radar people? If that is so, I agree with you here.

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.As a wolf I never intentionally play differently, but it shows in my behaviour nevertheless so I do end up playing a bit differently. And I could bet I'm not the only one here who's like that.

Sally's craziness feels like her innocent craziness and Nerwen pessimism and overall attitude makes me feel good about her too. Boro's reasonableness seems innocentish, but I know better than to trust him - even though I'm not getting the-once-so-common wolvish vibes from him.

Unfortunately, I'm finding it more difficult to judge who looks guilty. No one has really made me suspicious this far. For the sake of my sanity, I hope that Mith and Greenie will look super guilty when they appear. ;) But that, I'm afraid, is a vain hope. Volo and McCaber strike me as having an aura of hidden evilry, but they've both posted very little so I need to know more of them before I judge. Besides, I think I'm going to be naturally wary of McCaber for the next decade or so for his recent extra sly performances both as a cobbler and a wolf...

[Nerwen]

Durelin and Sally:

Individually I can't get much of a fix on either of them. Durelin I've never played before, and as for Sally... :rolleyes: I mean, as usual she's managed to say something

I'm a terrible bluff, so if I'm lying it's pretty easy to catch me on it. Besides, I'm insufferably honest, which also means that if I am a wolf, I won't lie about it.

which sounds highly wolfish– but the thing is, she always does. After what happened last game I'm almost afraid to form an opinion of her.

As for them being in it together, and trying to cast suspicion on Mac– yes, I can see that as a possibility. I find it less likely that Gwathagor is part of it too, though. I'll look at him next.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy.

[Macalaure]

A couple of hours into the game, and already everybody is talking about me...

Frankly, I am somewhat puzzled as to why Macalaure should make a big deal out of Nogrod's "protect our assets" line.
I think I made it quite clear that I'm not making a big deal out of it. I only mentioned it because it was the only suspicious thing I saw at all at that point. Should I have said nothing at all instead?

Ka, in #46, you gave a quote which isn't mine but McCaber's. Of course, you could refer to Cabbie as 'Mac', but that's gonna cause some confusion. :D

The Ka–

Is apparently trying to win a prize for saying the least in the most words. A possible "safe" wolf-tactic?

I agree with that. I'm not sure what to think of it, too.

Rikae, did you just call me self-deprecating, over-eager, and over-apologetic in only one post? What happened to Rikae the Kind? ;)

No clear-cut suspects so far, and what's almost as bad, apart from Nerwen I don't find anybody particularly innocent as well.

[Nerwen]

Gwathagor–

Early posts are just banter with Lommy– nothing there. Also makes a couple of posts of little or no substance. Then we have him saying this:

My point being, Boromir, that Durelin and Sally may simply have seen Mac's accusation of Lommy as more serious than yours. I don't think that the circumstances should give us any reason to think there's a conspiracy there. You might have a point regarding Mac appearing to switch his suspicions, but that looks more to me like first-day-fishing than anything creepy. That's all I was trying to say.

Now, Rikae says that he "jumps in" with a "defense" of Durelin and Sally.

Well, okay, you could see it that way... but you could also see it as Gwath just trying to be helpful and offer an alternative explanation. As it stands, I find that more likely.

[Nerwen]

McCaber–

Sole contribution is to follow this post of Gwath's

I'm not going to say anything yet, NOT because I'm trying to fly under the radar, but because I'm not sure what to make of the first page. There's so much speculative finger-pointing that goes on on the first day, and so little substance. At this point, everyone looks equally suspicious to me.

I promise I'll contribute in a few hours after I've eaten.

Meneltarmacil used my full name!

With this

Nice to see you, too, Sally. As much as I don't want to become a Cabe-kabob, maybe I'll actually give you something to look at this time. And Pappa Volo, I'll try not to disappoint you toDay.

I do enjoy the more experienced ones throwing around suspicion. So I think I'll try it too:

I like how Gwath is refraining from forming an opinion. He could be not trying to leave a paper trail of suspects. Not a full-on point yet, but it could become one.

Anyway, I'll return soon with some serious thoughts in a while. Supper awaits, if I can find some in this house of doom.

Which is to say that he's basically doing the same thing as Gwath– except for suspecting one person (also Gwath).

[Nerwen]

Well, I don't have time for anyone else. I'm either going to have to vote very soon– which I won't be happy about since I have no clear suspect– or get up very early in the morning, which will be cutting it fine and which may not give me time to read through everything.

Also, we have yet to hear from A Little Green and Mithalwen. My feeling at the moment, though, is that at least two, and probably all three, of the wolves have already posted. I'm getting much the same nasty "there's something going on but I don't know what" feeling as in the last village. Maybe it's left over paranoia.:(

I have a tendency to always find Nerwen suspicious

Thanks, Rikae, I love you too.

[Thinlómien]

Where is Greenie? I know she's at home right now and having a flu, but I hope she's not so ill she can't play ww or avoiding it for any more sinister reasons. ;) But looking at the clock, it seems likely that she will post soon, or at least I hope so. Of Mith I can't provide similar analysis, but I hope that she will appear soon-ish too.

A couple of hours into the game, and already everybody is talking about me...An interesting comment and one that might have more to it than it first reveals. I mean, if you ask me, everybody's not talking about Mac. Granted, he is among those most talked about, but he seems to imply he is the main subject of discussion (or that's the feeling I get from his tone), which, in my opinion, is not true and thus Mac has made a wrong evaluation. Ok, what about it? you might ask, everybody makes mistakes. Yes, I agree with that. But Macalaure seems to overestimate the suspicion and/or discussion around him especially and that is a rather wolvish mistake. I mean, I always do it as a wolf, however hard I try not to. Thus this little comment looks a bit sinister.

[A Little Green]

Where is Greenie? I was sleeping, obviously. But the same should be asked of you, my love. Shouldn't you be at school? :Merisu:

Okay. The day's been quite a mess, and I haven't quite got my thoughts cleared yet since I only just read it.

First of all, Boro makes me uneasy. He seems like a sort of sardonic observer, popping up once in a while to make a little, clever post, and meanwhile being very careful of his suspicions and letting out very little of himself. Of course that might just be those silly playing style matters. :p

Secondly, I'm rather annoyed at myself at the moment. I just noticed that I have a tendency to automatically trust people who make long and fruitful(-looking) analyses of others. In this round, I find Rikae and Nerwen rather innocent. Rikae's jump on Gwath in her novel strikes me as slightly worrisome, though. I saw Gwath's post simply as a genuine offer of an alternative theory. Of course it is important to recognise the possibility of him defending sally and Durelin, but completely leaving out the alternative to that doesn't look good.

Of the others, both Mac and Lommy look innocentish, Sally, Durelin and Nog I cannot read, Menel and McCaber I find slightly worrying, and Gwath looks genuine enough.

Coming back with more, hopefully.

[Thinlómien]

I was sleeping, obviously. But the same should be asked of you, my love. Shouldn't you be at school?Sleeping 'til 2pm? Good, you're finally taking after your sister. :p ;) As for school, I happened to have lunch and currently I'm having an hour off...

I do enjoy the more experienced ones throwing around suspicion. So I think I'll try it too:

I like how Gwath is refraining from forming an opinion. He could be not trying to leave a paper trail of suspects. Not a full-on point yet, but it could become one.Now I just don't like the tone of this at all. It just sounds wrong, throwing suspicion around merely for the sake of throwing it, not because of actually suspecting anything AND not standing behind his suspicion by stating he's just throwing it around.

Rikae seems to make a big mess of the me-Mac-Boro-Sally-Durelin-Gwath thing, which troubles me a little. It seems like she wants people to stick to speculating and arguing only about it for the whole Day, or to phrase it a bit more nicely and realistically, keep the debate going. Which I'm not sure an innocent would do. :rolleyes:

The Ka–
Is apparently trying to win a prize for saying the least in the most words. A possible "safe" wolf-tactic?It seems to be her normal playing style. Which of course does not guarantee she's innocent.

[Mithalwen]

I forbid the further use of smilies...:rolleyes:

I love it when he's masterful... ;)

sorry to be so late - couldn't get online last night and just have a few minutes now but will be able to say more later, so no hasty vote from me.

I agree there are advantages to no gifteds - firstly it discourages laziness since we can't rely on them and secondly it removes that doubt that so often occurs that odd behaviour means a wary gifted rather than a nervy wolf.

Off for another read. May get another post up .. may not...

[Rikae]

Gwathagor–

Early posts are just banter with Lommy– nothing there. Also makes a couple of posts of little or no substance. Then we have him saying this:



Now, Rikae says that he "jumps in" with a "defense" of Durelin and Sally.

Well, okay, you could see it that way... but you could also see it as Gwath just trying to be helpful and offer an alternative explanation. As it stands, I find that more likely.

Actually (and in answer to Gwath as well) I was referring more to his question to Boro in his previous post -- which, though it doesn't mention Sally or Durelin by name, is a defense of them, whether that was his primary intention or not; it is a question implying their behavior was not suspicious.
Besides, Boro clearly did not suspect Lommy less strongly than Mac did - so it is also a groundless defence. It just strikes me as very knee-jerk and jumpy (the question and the follow-up.)
Now, back to reading the thread...

[Meneltarmacil]

I think I made it quite clear that I'm not making a big deal out of it. I only mentioned it because it was the only suspicious thing I saw at all at that point. Should I have said nothing at all instead?

I probably wouldn't have read it as suspicious at all, and I don't see why it was worth discussing.

As for McCaber, I don't know what to make of him. He seems to be a suspicious character regardless of what his role is.

[Rikae]

OK, not much left here to go on, but if my years as an English major have taught me anything, it's how to write several pages about a half-page text. :p
Let's see what I can do here:

Nerwen seems so easily satisfied with the innocent explanations of Mac and Gwath's behavior and yet is suspicious of Menel for reasons I don't really understand... oh, and Nerwen, sorry if I offended you by saying I always find you suspicious -- but the alternative would be to simply find you suspicious. I'm trying to be fair... :rolleyes:

Menel deserves a closer look ... he is somehow on the edges of things. He started off aggressive, but since then he's been unusually uncontroversial. Nerwen and somebody else (sorry, can't find it again) called him suspicious, but I'm not sure about the reasons... anyway, he shouldn't be ignored. If I have time, I'll look at him later.

I agree with Lommy about Mac's statement that everybody is talking about him -- it looks fishy. However, I could also see this as a reaction to the way the last several games have gone -- he *has* been the number one suspect on day one for a while. I'm keeping my eye on him, though.

I find it odd that Lommy accuses me of trying to focus everybody's attention on a controversy involving half the village! Statistically, there is probably a wolf in there, and I certainly think it's better to analyze what can actually be analyzed rather than taking a shot in the dark with a "quiet person" who may or may not be quiet toMorrow. If someone insists on lurking in shadows then too, I say lynch him/her... but even if we don't lynch one of the controversial figures, discussing them leaves a trail -- and the trails of dead innocents and wolves will be all the solid evidence we have in this game. There also wasn't any such concept as a "Lommy-Boro-Gwath-Sally-Durelin-Mac" situation until I coined it, and therefore there was nothing for me to continue. It's a way into the problem, nothing more... but maybe Lommy doesn't want us to have any handle on things?

Coming up with overarching concepts invariably pushes some considerations aside while spotlighting others -- however, it's a necessary start to wolf-hunting. Every individual, considered in isolation, doesn't reveal much, but the interactions do. It's the easiest thing in the world to suspect the people who create such concepts, because all one has to do is point out that they are trying to focus the village's attention. Well, that's exactly what I'm doing, because without focus, we'll get nowhere. I may be bringing myself down, but I intend to take some wolves with me... a controversy is exactly what we need for later analysis.

Well, sorry for being long-winded, but this issue gets me fired up. At any rate... I am still uneasy about Mac and Lommy, probably more so at this point than Gwath and Sally and/or Durelin. Still, it's good to see connections forming which might help us later...

EDIT: X'd with Menel

[Boromir88]

Before going to bed last night the one I felt most comfortable with was sally...and now that she promises she's innocent, well nothing's changed.

This morning I feel good about Rikae and Thinlomien.

Rikae because I think her suspicions of Gwath are an innocent one and she's onto something there (which I will get to more in a bit).

Thinlo, mostly because she passed my test. I'm always suspicious of Thinlo because of her "chipperness" and Thinlo always responds in some way similar to what she did..."If I was a wolf I wouldn't be like this." (And I'm pretty sure it's either Mac or myself who always find that even more suspicious). Anyway, point being Thinlo passed the test and her observation on Mac is spot on:
An interesting comment and one that might have more to it than it first reveals. I mean, if you ask me, everybody's not talking about Mac. Granted, he is among those most talked about, but he seems to imply he is the main subject of discussion (or that's the feeling I get from his tone), which, in my opinion, is not true and thus Mac has made a wrong evaluation. Ok, what about it? you might ask, everybody makes mistakes. Yes, I agree with that. But Macalaure seems to overestimate the suspicion and/or discussion around him especially and that is a rather wolvish mistake. I mean, I always do it as a wolf, however hard I try not to. Thus this little comment looks a bit sinister.
Nice observation and it is hard not to have that knee-jerk reaction of "I'm being suspected...it's only Day 1...crap" I think you remember all too well my Fenris Penguin days and perhaps 2 people raised some concerns about me and I felt a need to overly defend myself, because I was worried by all the "suspicion" eventhough as the ordinary villagers had observed wasn't all that much...and that led to my Day 1 downfall. I still can't stop that nervous reaction of "Thinlo is suspecting me...oh crap I'm feeling the noose!"

Secondly, I'm rather annoyed at myself at the moment. I just noticed that I have a tendency to automatically trust people who make long and fruitful(-looking) analyses of others. In this round, I find Rikae and Nerwen rather innocent. Rikae's jump on Gwath in her novel strikes me as slightly worrisome, though. I saw Gwath's post simply as a genuine offer of an alternative theory. Of course it is important to recognise the possibility of him defending sally and Durelin, but completely leaving out the alternative to that doesn't look good.~Greenie
This I find odd, he thinks Rikae looks rather innocent, yet her jump on Gwath is worrisome? Perhaps this is a defense against Gwath? Too early to say but it does look like a clever wolf tactic to make it look like you're defending someone "innocent" when you're really not you're inadvertantly defending someone else.

Let me explain, no that would be too long, let me sum up. It looks like Greenie is defending Rikae (saying she seems innocent), but that comment is only meant to divert us from who Greenie truly is defending (and that is Gwath). By saying, but Rikae's suspicion of Gwath looks "worrisome" because she left out the other alternatives. So, it's actually a defense of Gwath disguised under the "Rikae is innocent...but she worries me because of...blah blah blah.

but completely leaving out the alternative to that doesn't look good.
Since this is the first village I believe we have had the honor of being in together Greenie I'll let you in on a little secret. I'm an extremely biased person, so when I spot something I jump on that like a cat on a mouse and won't let up until I see that person dead (just ask Menel he's suffered from my biases far too often). I think too much thinking goes on (how ironic...I think), which can be a great weapon for me, but that sets me up to be easily fooled (just ask Nogrod I'll never forget that little under-handed, dirty, yet brilliant trickster).

[Boromir88]

Oh and please no more complaints about Day 1...I think it can be the most exciting and liberating days if you let it be so. Because, after Day 1 I actually have to do work and all this analyzing baloney that never helps me out anyway, but I continue to do it, but on Day 1 I don't have to. Just have the attitude of "Day 1 is my friend" and it'll be fine.

[Nogrod]

I guess I've never did this kind of thing before but here's what I have gathered from the thread this far what comes to people in someway - more or less seriously - suspecting or defending others. They are in the order they have appeared in the thread. I'm trying to elaborate on them after I post this one as I started this one to both look at whether some people are trying opportunistically to ride on others' suspcions or who have been careful not to open their minds as to whom they suspect.

If I have misrepresented anyone's points please correct me but I have tried to explicate everyones points in a most economical manner.


Mac getting a funny feeling about Nog because mentioning the wolves being after our assets freely.

Boro feeling bad about Lommy for joyousness and lightness.

Lommy: Mac is odd (not necessarily a wolf though).

Menel suspecting Lommy for suspecting Gwath.

Mac pointing out Lommy's fast to accuse & self-explained innocense.

Sally defends Lommy, questions Mac & MEnel for their atack on her. Reminds of her before the game wish to kill McCaber.

Nogrod suspects Menel for bandwaggoning. Think's Mac's joke raises eyebrows. Feels Lommy mostly innocent.

McCaber tries Gwath because he restrains from forming an opinion.

Nerwen doesn't like people suspecting Lommy so much.

Dury doesn't see anything wrong with Lommy, agrees that Mac jumped on her (did he?) but she doesn't see it suspicious either.

Boro points out Sally & Dury pointing out Mac's jump on Lommy: so wolves trying to attract suspcion on Mac based on Lommy's initial suspicion?

Gwath asks which one accused Lommy more, Mac or Boro himself.

Menel puzzled by Mac's initial suspcion of Nogrod.

Gwath indirectly defending Dury and Sally.

Rikae says there's something slightly edgy in Mac on a first glance.

The Ka agrees with Nogrod's suspicions on Menel to trying to ride Boro's suspicion of Lommy.

Rikae's analysis: Nerwen's way of posting if wolvish but she always suspects her, there are things she doesn't like in Gwath (acting like a wolf-cub, the way he jumps on Boro, defence of Saly & Dury), Mac is odd, over-eager and over-apologetic, raises questions about Dury's handling of Mac-Lommy case. The result: Gwath maybe a wolf alongside either Saly or Dury, not entirely comfortable with Lommy & Mac.

Gwath saying he didn't so much defend Sally or Dury but was pointing a fault in Boro.

Nerwen sees Lommy's banter with Gwath innocent but her self-defence looks bad - adds she might be an innocent under pressure as well. Finds Mac rather jumpy but thinks he might just be trying to get people talking, seems to suspect Menel a bit (it was hard one to me to interpret), says The Ka might play safe-wolf -tactics talking a lot without saying anything.

Lommy finds Sally's craziness, Nerwen's pessimism and Boro's reasonableness innocentish. Volo and McCaber have an aura of hidden evilry but have posted to little to judge.

Nerwen says Sally looks wolvish but that's what she always looks like.

Mac says only Nerwen feels innocent.

Nerwen seems to hold Gwath innocentish.

Lommy suspects Mac on overestimating the discussion about himself (which is how wolves tend to feel).

LG finds Boro making her uneasy with his short, clever and uncommiting posts. Menel and McCaber are slightly worrying. She finds rather innocent: Rikae, Nerwen, Mac, Lommy and Gwath.

Lommy suspects McCaber for merely suspecting on suspicion's sake and not being honest. Is troubled with Rikae's discussion on the Boro-Lommy-Mac-Sally-Dury-Gwath -thingie.


Okay that's it. Thoughts to follow... (and I see there are already some new posts around...)

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, I have to leave in like five minutes, and I just can't make up my mind. *curses herself for being so tired* So in lieu of any hard evidence, I'm just going to have to go with my gut. I find

++Boro

to be odd. He's not really said a lot, but what he says strikes me as just....I don't know, wrong. May just be the way he is, but at the moment it looks off to me so that's where my vote's gotta go.

Good morning little ones! Tiny Green, why do you sleep so long? Stop being sick and get well, I command thee! Or else let me sleep too. ;) As for the rest of you, make some nice posties for me while I'm gone, savvy? And kill a wolfsie!

[Volo]

*sigh*

The only wibe I got, Sally had to mention it just in front of my nose. :rolleyes:

While reading through the thread I got the feeling that somebody might be trying to frame Lommy. I mean she was quite in the middle of everything a while ago and slowly some people started calling her innocent. Something feels fake there.
The best "proof" to Lommy's innocence is exactly this, to me.

And with that idea I stumbled upon Boro's post #74 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=548798&postcount=74). It fits well to what I thought of and I can't really say what it is but Boro is... overdoing it? Not exactly...

Ok, I noticed that I don't really have anything to say so I'll reread stuff.

[Nogrod]

The first thing that jumps up from there is Menel's happiness to support Boro's idea of Lommy being suspicious with a very weak argument (the banter between Lommy and Gwath in the beginning). A wolf would like to confirm the suspicions on others than themselves early on - and Menel-wolf in particular knowing his lynch-rate on Day1's...

The same could be said of Mac as he is the next to continue this Lommy bandwaggon. Even though I must say that those people who have repeated that "Mac jumped on Lommy" I find a bit disturbing as well as I don't see his points as any straight attacks... But just looking at the placement of Mac's suspicion looks a bit bad indeed.

Gwath's indirect defence of Sally and Dury also looks a bit fishy to me. I do undertand that it could be seen as just giving another explanation to their posts but there is something in the way Gwath makes it that makes me a bit worried about it.

Menel's late wake up to question Mac's first-post suspicion on me looks quite out of context. Why say that (nothing new a host of people hadn't voiced already) at that moment? Was he looking at the possibility of adding to a possible Mac bandwaggon as there had been this "Mac jumped on Lommy" discussion just before it?


It's also interesting to see who we miss from the list of actually saying anything in suspcion or defence of anyone even if people have posted.

Nerwen's analysis are very roundabout. It was a task to try and explicate whether she was actually suspecting someone or not. McCaber's suspicion was a sham. The Ka has only once backed my suspicion on Menel in passing. Gwath has only made an indirect question on Boro. Dury, Volo and Mith haven't suspected anyone - but there's just a post each this far from them to be sure (okay, two for Volo).

[Volo]

I think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son... :rolleyes:

Could you please explain what you meant? I didn't see any sense in either, but neither anything nasty.

[Nogrod]

I need to do some work now but I will be back well before the deadline. But here's what I think right now.

My top suspect of those who have actually taken part in the discussion so far is Menel. He has tried to follow two suspcions nicely just when they have been on the air (first going with pushing Lommy then on Mac). Knowing his lynch-rate it would be important to him to steer the discussion anyway but to him, thence the eagerness to push people aready suspected. Also I don't see it as too farfetched to see his declaration of Boro's innocence as a way of trying to make Boro restrain his usual attack on him. Now why be like that unless a wolf?

My second suspicion is Mac. As Lommy pointed out the wolves feel surrounded and pressured if they are talked about and easily slip in there. As Lommy and Boro confessed about themselves I've myself also fallen victim to that paranoia. Mac's point about everyone discussing about him definitively looks that as it was not true. His suspicions on Lommy also fit the idea of a wolf trying to help the downfall of someone else.

But already here I seem to have a problem as I think it somewhat unlikely both of them are wolves. It's perfectly possible Menel tried to point at a fellowMac after he had been talked about a bit more. It might be seen as not too daring either but I'm not sure if I'm convinced about that kind of a plot between the two of them.

Then there is this trio Sally, Dury and Gwath. I think it highly unlikely they all three are wolves but two of them could well be. And that in turn would probably undo my first two suspects being wolves.

Also I'm not at all happy with the posting of McCaber, The Ka, Volo and Mith. But there is time for them to come more involved.

As I said earlier, espacially in a game with no gifteds I'd be inclined to vote the silent submarines in the beginning rather than leaving them to be a greater problem later.

Unless we had a better case.

Now I'm just wondering whether the suspicions I have do fit the description of being good enough...

[Durelin]

I think Boro is being too combative to be a wolf. Or people not reading threads entirely and thoroughly ruffles his fur enough that he forgoes all restraint. :p

Okay, never played with Sally, but uh...is this *oh, loves, you know I'm not a wolf! I'd never lie to you!*...typical? So, Sally - if you were a wolf, would you come out and tell us and make sure you got lynched? :rolleyes:

Ah, so the looonnng posts begin already. *le sigh*

We are already getting a lot of interesting reactions out of people, though. I agree Gwathagor and Mac have been a little...defensive? It's really okay, Mac, I was just looking for something to say. :p

I'm finding Nerwen, A Little Green, McCaber the hardest to read of anyone. I've never played with them before, and though I've never played with Sally, either, she's a bit more...out there. I would not have a problem with that except that her "I promise I'm not a wolf" seems so utterly ridiculous to me, and I disagree with her on Boro.

On the other hand...Boro, along with Lommy, is among those pulling the preemptive "this is how I always am, it doesn't mean I'm a wolf", or "this is how I am as a wolf, and I'm not that now, so I'm not a wolf" stuff. Not as bad as Sally's "I'd tell you if I was a wolf cause I can't lie!", but it still annoys me. I know plenty of the people in this game have complained before about the problem of playing with the same people with the same styles, so let's stop trying to use that to our advantage, eh?

Menel, Nogrod, and Gwathagor are attempting to be very pleasant it seems. It's almost boring, and bothers me a little. Menel and Gwath both seem to have felt they needed to correct their behaviour a bit, and Nogrod being overly pleasnt could be a bad sign.

But then again, those on the offensive who are already forming wonderful conspiracy theories are confusing me, too. Seriously, Rikae, five dashes? Already?

Volo and Ka seem the most innocent right now to me.

Rikae, Menel, and Sally bother me the most, all for very different reasons. If I had to pick a wolf from them, I'd probably drop off Sally cause I have absolutely no idea about her. But beyond that...eh, who knows.

Edit: Crossed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

I think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son... :rolleyes: Could you please explain what you meant? I didn't see any sense in either, but neither anything nasty.Look at the first few posts... Lommy at least says a thing or two unlike Gwath; not anything extraordinary but reasonable compared to "First!" or "hush". :) And I didn't say either of them said anything nasty.

What makes me answer your question is the chance to ask you in turn why did you thought this so important thing as to bother asking in the first place? I mean I don't see any point in your question but could see a host of other questions to be raised.

[Volo]

So, computer stopped working, I burnt my fingernail and... nothing else actually.

What makes me answer your question is the chance to ask you in turn why did you thought this so important thing as to bother asking in the first place? I mean I don't see any point in your question but could see a host of other questions to be raised.
You were around.
Do ask the other questions if you have them.

Okay, never played with Sally, but uh...is this *oh, loves, you know I'm not a wolf! I'd never lie to you!*...typical? So, Sally - if you were a wolf, would you come out and tell us and make sure you got lynched?My opinion on Sally is that she's a totally crazy player and jokes around more than anybody else. Talking the way she does now isn't something she'd do only as a Wolf. Of course, it might be a way to cover up for not saying anything else and to look "normal".
You know, she's a bit like Fea actually. Thankfully not as radical, but they are similar in some ways.


I feel so lazy, clueless and hungry at the moment that I'll go and feed myself. After that I might want to try planning my school essay. Though I doubt I'll start actually doing homework, which is good news on the WW front.

[A Little Green]

This I find odd, he thinks Rikae looks rather innocent, yet her jump on Gwath is worrisome? Perhaps this is a defense against Gwath? Too early to say but it does look like a clever wolf tactic to make it look like you're defending someone "innocent" when you're really not you're inadvertantly defending someone else.
Oh well. I've been contradicting myself again. Let me explain myself. My first impression on Rikae was that she's possibly innocent. Later on, while I skimmed through the thread to check something (can't remember what :rolleyes: gosh I love it when my brain is working...) I happened to reread that paragraph and found it somewhat disturbing so I added it to my post. My overall image of Rikae was still innocentish, so I didn't alter the earlier part. Did that explain anything?

Okay, never played with Sally, but uh...is this *oh, loves, you know I'm not a wolf! I'd never lie to you!*...typical? Well... umm... yes. :D Quite frankly.
Nogrod being overly pleasnt could be a bad sign. True, though one must take into account that he promised to be agreeable in this game. (On the other hand, he promised to be silent in the last game, so... :rolleyes:) He does seem weird, though.

As I said earlier, espacially in a game with no gifteds I'd be inclined to vote the silent submarines in the beginning rather than leaving them to be a greater problem later.

Unless we had a better case.

Now I'm just wondering whether the suspicions I have do fit the description of being good enough... What do you mean by "a better case"? While I understand your point, I, for my part, will vote for the one I find most likely to be a wolf, whatever that means, regardless of whether he/she is silent or not. Simple as that.

Gah. The people, then.

Green zone (=innocent-looking):
Lommy
Nerwen
Sally

Yellowish green zone (=mostly innocent-looking):
Macalaure
Nogrod
Durelin
Rikae
Gwath

Yellow zone (=slightly suspicious):
Boro - has improved somewhat since my previous post.
McCaber
Menel

Red zone (=suspicious):
...
Gosh, my red zone looks empty. I'm too credulous, it seems.

No zone at all (=no opinion):
Volo
Mithalwen



My thoughts aren't being too clear. Nog's suspicion summary gave me a headache.

Off to have some tea, back before long.

EDIT: x'd with Volo

[Gwathagor]

I found a later time slot in which to vote, which is good (yay!). Vote: ++Boromir88, because of his anti-rational methodology. Even if he isn't a wolf, a player who doesn't want to reason is bad news.

[A Little Green]

A quick sidenote,
I feel uneasy about Gwath's vote. It looks somewhat like the start of a bandwaggon to me.Even if he isn't a wolf, a player who doesn't want to reason is bad news. A player who doesn't want to reason? What do you mean by that, Gwath?

Something's wrong in his post. Just... plain wrong.


EDIT: 90th post!!

[Boromir88]

On the other hand...Boro, along with Lommy, is among those pulling the preemptive "this is how I always am, it doesn't mean I'm a wolf", or "this is how I am as a wolf, and I'm not that now, so I'm not a wolf" stuff. Not as bad as Sally's "I'd tell you if I was a wolf cause I can't lie!", but it still annoys me.~Durelin
Well, I would say I'm sorry for causing that annoyance, but I would be lying. It's hard when you're a wolf to hold back that blood-thirsty reaction of "There are a couple people mumbling about my wolfishness...it's only Day 1...this isn't good, how do I turn suspicion away from me?" Trust me, I know, I've been down that road before.

My top suspect of those who have actually taken part in the discussion so far is Menel. He has tried to follow two suspcions nicely just when they have been on the air (first going with pushing Lommy then on Mac).~Nogrod
Take this as a defense for Menel, if you want to, in many ways it is, but I don't find his behavior all that suspicious at all this day. Menel, as an innocent, typically does feed well off of others (though not literally "feed" but you know what I mean). He's good at following up on other people's suspicions, which naturally makes him look like a wolf, but that's rather Menel-like.

Our long history where I've caught on to Menel being a wolf (very early in the game) was because his comments seemed to be forcing something, forcing suspicions towards certain people, instead of "going with the flow." It's very possible that he's changed up, but I don't find him wolfish in the least bit today.

Sally's vote for me looks like an innocent one and appears genuine. This is our first village together, and I understand my Day 1 style usually does get me into trouble early.

Volo's follow up suspicion of me seems like it's all too convenient and is an attempt to get more support against me. What do I mean?
While reading through the thread I got the feeling that somebody might be trying to frame Lommy. I mean she was quite in the middle of everything a while ago and slowly some people started calling her innocent. Something feels fake there.
The best "proof" to Lommy's innocence is exactly this, to me.

And with that idea I stumbled upon Boro's post #74. It fits well to what I thought of and I can't really say what it is but Boro is... overdoing it? Not exactly...
It sounds like...

"This suspicion towards Lommy early, than baking away looks fake, so it looks like Lommy is innocent. Oh and looky here...Boro's post fits exactly with what I was thinking...how about that coincidence?"

I'm blunt Volo, and I must say it is that which seems fake not the "stuff" going on with Lommy.

Edit: x-ed with several people

[Boromir88]

A player who doesn't want to reason? What do you mean by that, Gwath?

Something's wrong in his post. Just... plain wrong.~Greenie
That is quite interesting and Gwath's last post (with the vote for me) reminds me of Menel's behaviour when I spotted him as a wolf early in these villages.

What I mean is Menel had the attitude of "I don't think anyone looks all that suspicious, but we can get away with lynching innocents it's ok, if they're just ordinary." Which I find to suggest "it's early, it's ok to lynch a couple innocents" to be just plain out evil behavior. In my opinion, you vote for who you think to be the most wolvish, even if it's something small, weak, and insignificant you go with it. That is why I think Sally's vote looks like the vote of an innocent, Gwath's on the other hand just looks evil..."Even if he's not a wolf...it's alright to get this one wrong Boro isn't going to do this village any good with his reasoning."

And especially in this village, where we have no gifted, I am definitely against this vote by Gwath. If you think I'm a wolf so be it, you're doing your duty, but don't vote for me if you think I'm probably innocent but it would be ok to get it wrong, because it's only day 1. That was Menel's attitude when I found out he was a wolf...and this is very troubling.

So, I still have an hour or so, I will see what happens, but probably will vote for Gwath or Volo.

[THE Ka]

Ka, in #46, you gave a quote which isn't mine but McCaber's. Of course, you could refer to Cabbie as 'Mac', but that's gonna cause some confusion.


So sorry about that!:(
I completely missed it, i'm sorry, after about 10:30 my brain goes off and forgets the details about anything.

Is apparently trying to win a prize for saying the least in the most words. A possible "safe" wolf-tactic?

Yes, I'm admitting that I have no idea about any of you yet.


Oooh! Oooh! Did I win anything?

Could you please explain what you meant? I didn't see any sense in either, but neither anything nasty.

I think it was just a bit of in-character joke, at the joking arguement that took place in the first few posts.
... And just forget what I said, looks like Nogrod cleared that up.

While reading through the thread I got the feeling that somebody might be trying to frame Lommy. I mean she was quite in the middle of everything a while ago and slowly some people started calling her innocent. Something feels fake there.


People are always trying to frame Lommy though. Either out of turning suspicion elsewhere than themselves, or out of wary because Lommy is a tricky wolf at times and they certainly do not want to be caught off guard, no offense Lommy.

As for Sally, I am glad there is at least someone who enjoys being crazy around here, despite their role. I had the chance of playing with her before when she was a wolf, I believe, but it is going to be difficult to tell whether she's telling the truth or not concerning her role this time.
Sorry Sally, I love your style and nature, but I still have as much suspicion and no idea about you as I do about some others.

Yay! Mith came.

Okay, I have to leave now, but I should be back in time to re-read (if it'll actually help me at 'tall), and vote before deadline.

[Volo]

Boromir, I got quite worried for you getting a second vote, as the stuff I said are barely speculations. But your answer to me looks more evil than not, you didn't explain yourself or defend yourself but simply attacked back like trying to frighten me away. I'm uncertain after your latest post about Gwath. Again you're turning the attention to somebody who attacked you first, but then again you have a point, a brave point. If Gwath is lynched Innocent you will probably be targeted and a Wolf doesn't want that.

EDIT: Xd with the Ka

[Macalaure]

I'm here again and now finally free to really read what happened since I went to sleep yesterday. Skimming through the thread from work earlier, I didn't see anything that stuck out to me. Hopefully I'll find something now.

[Volo]

It's so funny, Boro. You talk much more about your preveous experiences, when you lynched Menel-Wolf and when you became a Fenris-Penguin. Menel and Lommy your partners to wake up such memories? ;) :D

To say the truth I can't decide on Gwath. Otherwise he looks Innocent to me but that vote is a bit easy. :eek: Please, anybody, give your opinions on this. Somebody who knows such situations better than me. Although I have been Fenrisifised, but for different reasons.

EDIT: Xd with Mac.

[Rikae]

And with that idea I stumbled upon Boro's post [URL]It fits well to what I thought of and I can't really say what it is but Boro is... overdoing it? Not exactly...


Eh? What's Boro overdoing, Volo? I can't really see what you're driving at here.


Seriously, Rikae, five dashes? Already? Oh, I can do better. It's now the Boro-Durelin-Gwath-Lommy-Mac-Rikae-Sally situation, you see. ;)

I don't understand either Sally's or Gwath's vote for Boro -- neither explained properly, and they both go up a couple notches on my suspicion meter for it. In fact, I may as well give that suspicion-meter -- however, in the interest of accuracy, it may not look typical:

Combination of Wolfish Irresponsibility (seeming eagerness to get a bandwagon rolling) and Wolfish Defensiveness:

Gwathy

Wolfish Defensiveness without Wolfish Irresponsibility:

Macalaure

Wolfish Irresponsibility without Wolfish Defensiveness:

Sally
Durelin
Lommy
Menel

Submarine-ishness:

THE Ka
McCaber
Mithalwen

None of the above:

Nogrod
Boro
Volo

...and all people with two "o"'s in their name, by default... :rolleyes:

What to make of this? I'm afraid I can't decide. Sometimes apparent irresponsibility is just pot-stirring... sometimes apparent defensiveness is just ordoish indignation... often the newbie/oddball who looks most suspicious on day one is an ordo. Frequently, very frequently, the people who avoid all errors are evil... bah. I'm talking myself in circles... I'll await further developments.

EDIT: X'd with everything from Mr. 88's post #88, and fixed Volo quote.

[Rikae]

Oh, I left Nerwen out...
she goes in the "Neither" category, spoiling the nice double-o theme, or possibly in the "Irresponsible" one.

[Nogrod]

What do you mean by "a better case"? While I understand your point, I, for my part, will vote for the one I find most likely to be a wolf, whatever that means, regardless of whether he/she is silent or not. Simple as that.I do have to disagree with you here. It always seems to be that those who are in the fray are also more easily seen as suspicious. Those who say things give food for thought to others unlike those who hide in the shadows. With the latter group it's always like tossing a coin. Therefore it's easier to come up with a case against one who talks a lot or tries to make a difference as there is lot to take hold on to. That in turn sadly turns out just too often with lynching an innocent who could have helped us in the later stages of the game and leaving us surrounded by enigmas we can't say anything about. Or how do you suspect one silent person over another?

So it's not simple as that. We need to take account of the relative risk. Like Mac toDay. I know he is a good player and he could really help us were he innocent. Thence I'm somewhat reluctant to vote for him just based on what I have on him now as it is only Day1 and there's generally quite little to go on with anyone. Therefore I need to ask myself whether I have a good case enough to vote for a vocal player on Day1 or whether I should try to find out a "sneaker"-wolf and go for her/him as in the beginning of the game it's easier to actually accomplish than later - and because the overall chances of getting a wolf onDay1 are smaller now than later so the relative risk for blunder is smaller as well.

EDIT: x'd with Volo and Rikae

[Boromir88]

Boromir, I got quite worried for you getting a second vote, as the stuff I said are barely speculations. But your answer to me looks more evil than not, you didn't explain yourself or defend yourself but simply attacked back like trying to frighten me away.~Volo
I am very confrontational and in your face, Volo, I would have thought you would know this by now. :rolleyes: Not because I'm rude, or I like being a big meanie, but it's what helps me. I like feeling the pressure during the day because it keeps me safe at night, but I also like attacking and putting the pressure on others because wuite frankly I like pushing people's buttons (especially the wolves)...and being blunt "in your face" does both for me.

The fact is Volo, I'm not going to defend myself, really is that going to do me any good? I'm going to be me, which means I'm going to be confrontational.

As far as your "speculation" against me, it was some good speculating, but it's not valid and you're barking up the wrong tree. I thought it sounded all too contrived and fake. Why? Because I know you are very crafty and as a wolf you can make your argument look logical and wise. I explained why it looked fake, and seeing as you haven't gone back to change anything, it still looks fake.

[Boromir88]

Nogrod, may I ask your thoughts on Gwath and Volo? Mostly you've been focusing on Mac, and you said you want to give other considerations...well I do happen to think Gwath and Volo have been posting enough to form some sort of judgement on.

[Thinlómien]

I have to agree with Boro about Volo. He jsut strikes me as ungenuine and his reasoning is even odder (no offense, Volo ;)) than usual. In short, he is suspicious. He's making a fuss of odd things and looks like a wolf who just can't come up with proper suspicions. He just simply doesn't sit right with me.

I also agree with Boro and Greenie on what they said about Gwathagor. His vote looks quite troubling, but on the other hand, Gwath could be the easy newbie lynch victim. *sigh*

Now, I'll follow the list trend:

Innocentish
Nerwen
Boro
Sally

Slightly innocentish
THE Ka
Menel

Neutral
Mith
Greenie
Durelin
Nogrod
Rikae

Suspicious-ish
Volo
McCaber
Gwath
Mac

I find Rikae less suspicious than I did, because I give credit to her response to me and because she has felt overall more reasonable lately, but I'm still not ready to be less wary of her.

THE Ka and Menel seem innocentish because albeit they're suspicious, they both act so much like their innocent selves.

edit: xed with Rikae, Boro, Nogrod & Nogrod

[Thinlómien]

Rikae, it seems you left Greenie out as well.

And, by the way, Nogrod is making more sense post by post so I should consider him innocent but some weird brake in my head restrains me from doing so. *shrugs*

[Meneltarmacil]

Let's see here:

Lommy and Mac have been noted as odd, and I'm inclined to suspect Mac more.

Gwathagor... Well, I've read what you've been saying about his defense of Durelin and Sally, and it doesn't seem TOO suspicious at this point, given that Mac really did seem to be more aggressive than Boro. The only odd thing I can see about it is the words he used, and I've seen enough of his style lately to know that he tends to take things personally to a certain extent, enough that this sort of abruptness isn't overly strange for him.

I think I'll be voting for

++Macalaure

for now. It's a bit weak, I know, but none of us really have a whole lot to go on.

[Nogrod]

It looks like a list time then... and some explanations about things I've not discussed this far.

I have a suspicion based on reasoning I've already explained:

Menel
Mac

The alarm-bells are ringing a bit louder now:

Gwath

as I tend to agree that his vote looks nasty indeed. Even though it might be based on just missing knowledge... calling Boro anti-rational surely sounds like a misconception... But his fast defence of Sally and Dury must be taken account as well.

A fifty-fifty case (if Gwath indeed is a wolf):

Sally
Dury

If Gwath is innocent it's harder to say: Sally seems her normal unfathomable self and Dury has improved a lot since her first post.

I'm uneasy about for different reasons (I'll try to elaborate if I have time):

Nerwen
Volo
McCaber
The Ka
LG

I'm not wishing to bring them up toDay:

Boro
Rikae
Mith

Boro and Rikae are sensible. Although there's one thing I'm a bit worried about the two and that's the fact that they have been so easy and nice towards me toDay. That's a bit disconcerting to be honest - not that I don't feel good about it, but that's just the problem. Somehow I'm not so concerned about Mith toDay even if her posting has been the least substantive - has given the least of what she thinks - this far (okay one could argue that The Ka or Sally contests the place). Maybe it's because I know she can be like that but may turn out very helpful later. Or is just so darn amiable person... But not her toDay with these grounds.

Feels somewhat innocent in earnest:

Lommy

She just looks her lively and happy penguin-self she is. When she is a wolf she tends to be a bit more uptight and careful like she said herself.

EDIT: X'd from Boro onwards...

[Mithalwen]

Well I am here later than I hoped and am somewhat distraught to see that sibling rivalry among my children is getting extreme and that my own dear husband has at least one vote (Has anyone a tally - I have so little time). Haven't you heard of the rehabilitation of offenders? He is an ex-pickpocket you know.... and while I can't guarantee he isn't a wild beast under the ...
... cover of darkness he is the only husband I have and I would like to keep him for a bit!

A child on the other hand might be expendable.... ;)


OK time for a re read and I hope a more serious post or two before it is too late.

[Macalaure]

I find Boro's behaviour a little too authoritative, but otherwise more innocent. Btw, Boro, to the best of my knowledge, A Little Green is female. ;)

I don't like Gwathagor's vote, and I think Boro has a point against him.

I used to agree with Boro on Menel - until I saw his vote. It looks to much like "let's start a bandwaggon against a widely suspected villager". But I guess I'm still overestimating the amount of attention given to me. :rolleyes:

I can't get a read on Sally, Volo and THE Ka.

I'm not sure about Lommy. The argument that she wouldn't talk about her possible wolvishness if she really was a wolf is a valid one, but she simply doesn't give me an innocentish feeling. I can't explain why. I have the same unspecific bad feeling about Nogrod. I don't understand why I'm so suspicious to him, but I find the eagerness with which he pursues this suspicion worrisome.

Nerwen I used to think innocent, but her post about McCaber doesn't look good, very hasty actually. But then, a wolf might like to give her posts a more polished look.

Rikae looks innocentish. So do Lily and Durelin.

Mith and McCaber are enigmas.

[Nogrod]

Tally for Mith and others as well...

Boro 2 (Sally, Gwath)
Mac 1 (Menel)

Back to Volo and Gwath in a minute...

[Rikae]

Rikae, it seems you left Greenie out as well.

And, by the way, Nogrod is making more sense post by post so I should consider him innocent but some weird brake in my head restrains me from doing so. *shrugs*

So I did...! Well, that is kind of telling in itself, when I think about it -- Greenie has somehow posted enough to not look "quiet", but hasn't made much of an impression on me. Reading over her posts, it seems as if she has been very uncontroversial thus far, maybe too much so.

EDITL X'd with Mith, Mac and Nog

[Thinlómien]

Basically I could vote Volo, McCaber, Gwath or Mac and I have hard time deciding. I'm inclined to agree with Nogrod's logic of not voting vocal players without comparing their suspiciousness to their loudness, so I think I will leave Mac be for toDay, unless I have to choose between him and someone who simply looks more innocent. So I will vote either Volo, McCaber or Gwathagor.

edit: xed with Mac, Noggie and Rikae

[Boromir88]

Although there's one thing I'm a bit worried about the two and that's the fact that they have been so easy and nice towards me toDay.~Nogrod
Frankly Nogrod I don't think I will ever lynch you on day 1, unless if you feel like admitting you're fanged than I would. Because you're going to sound sensible and reasonable no matter what, and that's no reason to vote for you on Day 1. I'm sure sometime down the road if we are still both alive we will have our inevitable battle for who will be the supreme super talker, but nah it will never happen on Day 1.

++Gwathagor

Making the tally:

Boro: 2 (sally, Gwathagor)
Mac: 1 (Menel)
Gwath: 1 (Boro)

As an aside for everyone else's ears (so this is not for my wife) if I die soon...just know I don't trust her.

Edit: crossed with a lot of people...I have a feeling this is going to be one crazy ending at the deadline

[Nogrod]

Okay. Even if I don't generally like this kind of reasoning I would say that Gwath might be a good candidate (my son!!! :eek:) as he has raised enough eyerbrows with his overall presence this far, because of his easy /malicious-looking vote and because his death might shed some light to the Sally / Dury thing - in the end he's the factor that binds the two together.

I do also agree with those who say Volo has been acting even weirder than he normally does. I mean it has always been a bit hard for me to follow his reasoning but now I'm quite baffled.

To Mac: as I said, I'm not happy to lynch you, on the contrary - as I said before. I'd rather see someone else go toDay.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm... I actually think I'd rather vote Volo or Cabbie than Gwath. Is there anyone else who agrees with me or will I just be content with voting Gwath?

edit: xed with Nogs

[Rikae]

I'm not sure about Lommy. The argument that she wouldn't talk about her possible wolvishness if she really was a wolf is a valid one, but she simply doesn't give me an innocentish feeling. I can't explain why. I have the same unspecific bad feeling about Nogrod. I don't understand why I'm so suspicious to him, but I find the eagerness with which he pursues this suspicion worrisome.


Hmm. I also have an unspecific bad feeling about Lommy... trouble is, I have the same bad feeling about you. Now, what was that you said after the last game? Just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean [he] is innocent...? Yeah, gotta remember that...

He is an ex-pickpocket you know.... and while I can't guarantee he isn't a wild beast under the ...
... cover of darkness he is the only husband I have and I would like to keep him for a bit!

That's great. :D

EDIT: X'd with BoroNogLom

[Mithalwen]

Pfft - in that case my own true love I shall check the insurance policies before I vote ..... if you don't know me by now...

[Durelin]

It's now the Boro-Durelin-Gwath-Lommy-Mac-Rikae-Sally situation, you see.

Good gracious! Now it's a situation?! :eek:

I'm really not sure about you, Rikae.

Menel's vote confuses me. But it doesn't strike me as anything. He seems almost too...out of it? to be anyone sinister.

Gwathagor's vote seems way too bold for a wolf. I mean, number 2 for Boro, following Sally who he's been accused of defending...

I am worried about shrugging off Sally. It seems like that's what most people do with her, which is frustrating. I'm not quite so concerned about *submarines* (has that become an official WW term?), but it looks to me like she is going to slip under the radar in a bit of a different way.

Mac's last post seems sensible - a little hesitant, but we all are on Day 1.

Boro and Rikae are sensible

Perhaps. My only complains it that Boro has spent a good deal of time talking about himself, and Rikae is enjoying her hyphenated theories. Now, I do find her category titles in her list quite interesting, in a good and sensible sort of way.

Now where the heck does that leave me... I thought Boro was too combative to be a wolf, but all he's been talking about is his personality and now he's going after easy meat. I mean, come on, guys...Gwath is just too easy pickins' at this point. Yes, who knows, but putting forth an easy lynch like that will give a good hiding place for wolves, eh?

Edit: Crossed with last 3 people.

[Nogrod]

McCaber surely is a candidate... just the way one forgets he's playing should remind us of it and his only post wasn't the most sincerish.

But then again... *oh these last minute doubts* ... maybe we're being hasty? Truth to be said I'm now almost accustomed myself that Gwath could be the one we should go for and so I find myself troubled bringing a new candidate to the fore twenty minutes before the deadline... That's how being a submarine works: in the end one starts to waver voting them after forgetting they even existed. :(

[Rikae]

I understand where Durelin's coming from with Gwath being too easy pickings -- I was thinking the same things myself, and besides, I don't really like lynching him on day one in his second game.

Still, he's the best suspicion I've got. I could see the sense, though, in voting for McCaber - (the submarine-theory) as he seems the most likely to slip under the radar in the future. But that just strikes me as slightly unfair... curses.

[Mithalwen]

I'm not wishing to bring them up toDay:

Boro
Rikae
Mith


[/B]



you'd have to eat us before you brang us up - is that an admission? ;)

But really I have just not had time to be too substantive, Gwathaagor's eagerness might be just that but it would not be the first time a novice wolf made the first post (my old superstition ).

I don't see why Mac was so suspicious of Nogrod so soon ... rattled a small bell but I am rusty and not sure how mormal it is. I do know it is normal for Boro to try to stir things up a bit and since he only risks driving wolves rather than gifted from cover it may be a profitable activity.

And for some reason he always suspects me when I sense he is innocent and try to save him from a first day lynch. I am innocent and so the fact he says he doesn't trust me strengthens my feeling he is innocent too again.

[Durelin]

Gad, yeah...I'd completely forgotten about McCab.

Ugh, I hate how the voting seems to come down to "coming to an agreement". There are only three among us who know who is on their side - I don't like compromising with people whose intentions are unknown to me. I mean, duh.

[Macalaure]

I don't expect he's going to be lynched today, but here's a bit about Nogrod. Yes, I am aware this post is ridiculously defensive, but his reasons against me are too weak to not comment on it.

The same could be said of Mac as he is the next to continue this Lommy bandwaggon.

A bandwaggon? During the first hours of Day One? Come on.

But just looking at the placement of Mac's suspicion looks a bit bad indeed.

I placed it just after I read Lommy's post about me. I fail to see what's suspicious about that.

Mac's point about everyone discussing about him definitively looks that as it was not true.

I exaggerated by saying everybody was, yes. However, this point of yours (and others) is very flimsy.

His suspicions on Lommy also fit the idea of a wolf trying to help the downfall of someone else.

My suspicions were early ones, placed in order to see what responses from her (and maybe others) I could get. I fail to see your interpretation.

To Mac: as I said, I'm not happy to lynch you, on the contrary - as I said before. I'd rather see someone else go toDay.

Now, of course an evil Nogrod would neeever claim that. :D :p

[McCaber]

Please don't forget I exist. I'll even try to be loud on the next Days to make up for this. I'm in the middle of prepping for class, but I should still have time to vote.

Boro seems to know what he's doing, and he raises good points. I would prefer it was not him lynched today.

Gwath looks bad to me, but I'm still not sure. I'll get some thoughts soon and vote quickly.

[A Little Green]

Honestly now, I'm quite at a loss with my vote.

Well, anyway, here it comes.

++ Gwath

Because his vote was just... horrible. Besides, his lynching will give more light to many things.

My other choice would have been McCaber because his posts have a suspicious air and in addition to that he has been contributing very little.


EDIT: x'd with very many people

[Mithalwen]

Haste people we have only a few minutes..

[Volo]

Being more odd than usual? I don't think playing badly counts as being odd. I have little idea to what to do and am uselessly lazy, though I hope I'll try more if I survive 'til later. And the sad part is that I really shouldn't die, because anybody is a better lynch candidate than yourself, always, because there are no more valuable Gifteds.


I might as well do something odd, because the current situation isn't leading to anywhere.

Gwath might be a Wolf, but feels too easy.
Boro might be a Wolf, but I'm reluctant to voting him.
McCaber doesn't look especially suspicious, just non-existent. It's one reason to vote him, but such people usually end up as Innocent.

I say that I'm not catching a Wolf right now and will turn completely around and vote for somebody who hasn't made anything that I regard as flaws yet.


EDIT: Xd with everything since #114.

[Rikae]

Well, may as well stick with my top suspect.

++Gwath

EDIT: X'd with GreenMithVolo

[Nogrod]

Mac: your post makes you look more innocent to me... just saying it now if I'm not around toMorrow.

Agreement / disagreement aren't the marks of innocence / evil.

[Thinlómien]

Mac! You said that post is on Nogrod. If you ask me, it was all about you, not him and it strengthens my suspicion of you... you did the same defensive mistake again.

edit: xed with a lot

[Mithalwen]

I don't want Boro lynched. Mac seems a bit off but ..

++Gwathagor

[Rikae]

Mac's post makes him look more innocent to me as well.

EDIT: X'd with Lommymith. And Lommy's makes her look less so...

[Nogrod]

Funny crosspost with Lommy... :rolleyes:

Okay. Is it Gwath (too easy) or McCaber (shot in the dark on a master deceiver)?

[Macalaure]

Sally -> Boro
Gwath -> Boro
Menel -> Mac (Boro 2, Mac 1)
Boro -> Gwath (Boro 2, Mac 1, Gwath 1)
Lily -> Gwath (Boro 2, Gwath 2, Mac 1)
Rikae -> Gwath (Gwath 3, Boro 2, Mac 1)
Mith -> Gwath (Gwath 4, Boro 2, Mac 1)

I would prefer to give Gwath another day, as I'm really not sure of him. On the other hand, I would really not like to see Boro go. And I have no idea for a responsible and feasible last minute counter-waggon.

I don't like toDay's voting.

[McCaber]

I hate to this, but here it is.

++Gwathagor

I'm still not completely sure, but several things he did just put me off.

And now here I am joining a bandwagon...

[Thinlómien]

Indeed, Nogrod, I'm facing the same choice... it all feels wrong but voting Boro would feel even more so... *sigh*

edit: xed with both Mc-men

[Mithalwen]

Maybe I should have gone for Mac but I feel more strongly about Boro's innocence than anyone's guilt....

[Durelin]

Okay, I feel now I can vote for McCab. I mean, how shocking that he returns suspicious of Gwath. I will lynch myself if Gwath turns out a wolf, though. :o

++McCaber

I do want to know what's up with Macalaure and Boro, though. As Lommy just pointed out about Mac's last post, both of them seem to be posting about themselves a lot.

[Nogrod]

If there is a chance then...

++ McCaber

Five votes left...

[Volo]

Ok, I'll please one of Nogrod's odd thoughts.

++THE Ka

To widen the vote scope.

Gwath's eagerness is a possible sign of Wolf, but I'll be a coward and give you the rights to kill someone you want.

Nah, curses! :(

--THE Ka
++Gwathagor He is suspicious after all.


EDIT: Xd with all since #125.

[Thinlómien]

++McCaber

to whatever end.

edit: xed with everybody since my last post :eek:

[Rikae]

Do we have retractable votes?

EDIT: X'd and guess so.

[Nogrod]

Look at Volo and McCaber toMorrow!

That was possibly a bit too neat...

[Thinlómien]

What?

[Macalaure]

++Gwathagor

though I'd very much prefer Lommy at the moment.

[Mithalwen]

I think not else I might have gone for mc Caber for that vote ... but perhaps more of a cop out even than Gwathagor...

[Macalaure]

Where did the Caber-waggon come from?

[Aganzir]

Do we have retractable votes?
No.

Deadline.

Is it Gwath? *goes to count the votes*

Narration coming soon.

[Mithalwen]

Look at Mc and Mac too for that save?

[Thinlómien]

Sorry to post after DL, but does Volo's vote count as one for Gwath or Ka? Or does it even matter?

[Volo]

I doesn't matter, but by all logic that I can understand (which is regarded odd :rolleyes: ) it counts for Gwath.

[THE Ka]

I'm unsure about voting for Gwath just yet, something tells me that if we turn him into a fenris we might be cutting off any chance of catching other wolves, considering Gwath's pattern of 'agree' then 'disagree', and then going under the radar at times in relation to defending others. Otherwise the only major suspicion I have of Gwath is him being too agreable at one point then retracting back later on, especially when Rikae analyzes his posts.

It was less a defense of Sally and Durelin than it was a criticism of Boromir's post. I figure that if I'm not going to make first-day accusations like everyone else, I can at least try to find flaws in other people's posts.


then:

I should also point out, Rikae, that I didn't actually defend Sally and Durelin until my second post - the "fix-it" post - in which I explicitly make them part of my argument. If I was trying to downplay any association with them, then I did a pretty poor job.


I dunno, this could be a wolf trying to carefully arrange things, or a frustrated ordinary. I'd like to see Gwath's actions on the second day especially, if for say, McCab or Mac was voted out, or attacked by wolves (if they are innocent).


McCabbie (see? I can remember now it's not late... Sorry again Mac :rolleyes:), I really wish would give more reasoning and overall opinion on what others are saying about him, or at least some standing as for position. He is acting very, very different than from last time when he was an ordinary. As for suspicion he is rising on my list, but I am hesitant to vote immediately and brashly. I guess being quite from now on would cause him to loose his skin.

I will have to agree somewhat with what Nerwen mentioned earlier, about the connection or at least bandwagoning of McCab after Gwath's fluster of reasoning, but being careful enough not to single out anyone as a wolf or having wolvie behaviour. It does carry its own suspicion for being careful, but uneventful.

OKay, I have no more time right now, and neither does the voting time count down, so I will stand by my above suspicion about Gwath. I want to see what he does later on without either the pressure from Mac, Menel or McCab, or their comfort zone of suspicion that he's using at times. I am not even going to try and throw a suspicion about Boro out here, because they would be stupid, even for me. I'd rather see what he has to say and do when someone, such as Nogrod pokes for information (though I've already seen it before). Mac is still on my list, but I'm curious about his actions later on as well. As for McCab, he is sticking out too much from his past nature, even when he was an ordo and voted. Maybe trying to be different in sake of this game, but his actions are warning me.


++McCab


~ Ka

[Aganzir]

The beggars were in the living room and argued. The situation didn't actually look that different from that in the Barrow, before the coming of Death - only the topics were darker. One of them was to die in the evening, and they had to decide who that unlucky was.

In the beginning of the day, Nogrod had sneakily tried to attack the gorgeous white animal that was lying in front of the hearth, but his attention was luckily caught by a fight that had suddenly started: his son Gwathagor was scuffling with the nasty little Thinlómien who had called him names. Nogrod decided to settle the situation by singing a song he had composed just a while ago:

”And with no ranger
we're in danger
of losing our helpfuls sooner than later
so that's an urgency matter:
the weight of possible submarines
may get heavy soon!”

The other beggars cheered and laughed and even the fighters forgot their argument, but there was one who wasn't impressed.

”I hereby forbid you to smile! It's darn annoying,” exclaimed Boro.

”I love it when he's masterful,” sighed Mithalwen, ”he's worth far more than some boring child!”

”But how do you expect I can hear what you say when you peep no louder than the mice Ka eats?” complained Durelin.

”Well, I'm not called Boro the Silent One for nothing...”

Unfortunately, the happy couple's children didn't feel as confident as their parents. Mac the Guileless was dwelling in self-pity and felt that everybody was speaking about him, Menel was sure that his father would eventually drive him to his death.

”I'm not a wolf, really!” said sally suddenly.

”Well, who is it, then?” asked McCaber.

”Probably my Durelin,” answered Rikae. ”I always suspect she's up to something...”

”Hey, I know the feeling! It's quite terrible when one can't trust his own wife...” started Boro, but was soon silenced by a threatening glance from Mith's direction.

”It's even worse when you can't trust your child!” exclaimed Nogrod in anguish. Gwathagor looked at him, astonished.

”Yes, there's really something strange about Gwathagor,” said Volo.

”Aye, let's kill him!” agreed Greenie.

Nerwen smirked. ”I have an idea. We could use him as a battering ram... You know, to break the door.”

”Hey, that sounds wonderful!” said Boro enthusiastically. ”I volunteer! But I need some strong men to help me, come on now! Volo, Greenie... Nogrod, will you come too or does it hurt too much?”

”Oh, not at all, I'll come,” said Nogrod.

”Daddy, I think Greenie is a girl,” observed Macalaure.

**

The men took hold on Gwathagor.

”One... Two... Three!”

They swung him so that his head hit the door. The door didn't break, but a cracking sound was heard.
They swung him again. Blood was dripping on the floor.
When they swung him the third time, the door gave way. Cool, fresh air flowed from the outside. Gwathagor's dead body fell to the floor. A pool of blood formed about his head.

As the beggars turned to examine him, they noticed that he was still completely human. Not even a single hair of beard had sprouted from his chin.

The night fell.

**

Alive:
Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars
his wife, Nerwen
elderly couple; Rikae the Kind
and Durelin
Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket
his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene
their children Macalaure the Guileless
and Meneltarmacil
Sally the Insufferable, a slightly mad crippled woman
Volo, a young widowed man
his child, the Right Honourable McCaber
THE Ka, a blind old woman
orphaned little Thinlómien
and her little sister A Little Green

Dead:
Tom Bombadil (ranger) - killed on Night 1
Goldberry (seer) - killed on Night 1
The Barrow-wight (hunter) - killed on Night 1
Gwathagor, the child of Nogrod and Nerwen (ordo) - used as a battering ram on Day 1

**

It is now Night 2. Wolves may kill. No posting here.

For those who are interested, Volo's vote counts as a vote (so failing to vote once again won't get him killed yet), but I didn't count it as a vote for either Ka or Gwath (not that it would have mattered anyway).
I'm ready to be lenient enough to count Ka's vote as such also, but from now on all the votes that are cast after the deadline, which is 7.00 PM GMT, don't count.

[Aganzir]

Four wolves were running through the swirling snow, their breath steaming out into the dark sky. Tonight, there were no clouds. The moon shone brightly enough to cast their shadows on the ground. It was freezing.

”How much wood is there left in the house?” asked one suddenly.

”Not much, I'm afraid. We used it quite a lot yesterday.”

”Which is not surprising, given that it's ages since any of us lived in a real, warm house.”

”I actually find it surprising. Living like we did should have taught them thriftiness.”

”They are enjoying everything as long as it lasts.”

”Well, what I am thinking is that although we have it nice and warm now, what about tomorrow?” interrupted the first wolf. ”Remember that we won't be wearing our pretty furs then... And it will be a hell if we have to go to fetch more wood.”

”Don't argue,” said Death. She was standing on a high barrow and looking over the forest. ”I want to enjoy the landscape.”

”Hey, I got an idea!” said a wolf. ”We could make ourselves some nice warm clothes!”

”Of what?” asked another.

**

The room was full of sleepers. Their breathing was deep and their sleep looked comfortable and peaceful.

”I wonder how they can be so calm although they know what is happening here,” whispered one.

”But isn't it good if they are able to accept their fate?”

”Good for them. They are happy till the end.”

”They think it won't hurt,” said Death.

**

”Now, whom shall we take?”

”What about these?”

”Err... Are you sure? One is maybe a little too old, the other a little too small.”

”So what? I'm sure they are a good choice anyway.”

”Alright, then.”

**

It is told that geese have roused their masters if an attack is about to come, but unfortunately ducks don't seemingly have the same ability. Emily slept unaware on sally's lap when the wolves carried her to another room and put her on the floor.

Sally woke to voices whispering around her.

”I've got the knife.”

”Who brought the needle and the thread?”

”I did. Can either of you sew?”

”I could knit a hat of her hair, but I'd rather leave the sewing for you.”

”Is there enough material to make boots also?”

”Hey... what's this?” sally lifted her head and saw three white shapes in the darkness.

”Nothing, dear. Just sleep,” a familiar voice said in her ear.

”Give me a gag,” said another.

”Huh...? But hey, I know your voices... Hey... What are you doing?”

One put a gag in her mouth. Another cut her dress off her and took a knife. The third was about to clip her long white hair, but noticed soon that there was an easier way.

”Buddy, lend me that knife! I'll just take her scalp and then I can go there to knit and be out of your way.”

The last thing sally saw before she died of shock, loss of blood and cold was a wolf biting the furiously quacking Emily's head off.

”I can make this a tassel hat!” rejoiced the third wolf.

**

The night was already turning into a dark blue morning when the wolves were finally ready.

”What a beautiful coat this is! I must say I have excelled myself,” admired one.

”Indeed it is! But look at these boots of shiny shiny leather!”

”Plain gorgeous. And what about my hat! It's so soft and warm!” The third wolf shook his head so that the tassel with Emily's head pinned on it swung from side to side.

Suddenly, one of the wolves went pale.

”Did it possibly occur to either of you that we can't wear these clothes?”

”Eh? Why not?”

”Why not!? Surely the other beggars don't realise from where we got these, do you think?”

”Oh no. Of course you're right.”

”But we did beautiful work anyway. Maybe we can wear these sometime later.”

**

When the beggars woke up, they found sally's skinned and scalped body in the passage. The headless Emily was lying next to her. On the coat rack was a brand new leather coat and a grotesque white bobble hat with the duck's head hanging from it. Next to the wall was a nice pair of boots.

**

Alive:
Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars
his wife, Nerwen
elderly couple; Rikae the Kind
and Durelin
Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket
his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene
their children Macalaure the Guileless
and Meneltarmacil
Volo, a young widowed man
his child, the Right Honourable McCaber
THE Ka, a blind old woman
orphaned little Thinlómien
and her little sister A Little Green

Dead:
Tom Bombadil (ranger) - killed on Night 1
Goldberry (seer) - killed on Night 1
The Barrow-wight (hunter) - killed on Night 1
Gwathagor, the child of Nogrod and Nerwen (ordo) - used as a battering ram on Day 1
Sally the Insufferable, a slightly mad crippled woman (ordo) - skinned, scalped and made to clothes on Night 2

It is now Day 2. Wolves stop PMing. Start talking.

[Mithalwen]

Am I the only one around? Shall I talk to myself? I can not stay indefinitely and may have to vote early tomorrow - so if you ignore me now don't you dare say I was quiet then!!!

I guess Sally went becasue she posted little and left little trace - but Aganzir and McCaber also had a low post count.

This gives a few possibilities .... there is a wolf among the quieter posters (statistically probable - but equally true that there will be one among the loudmouths). That Mc Caber had attracted enough suspicion for him to be a likely lynch target today and so if he is innocent the wolves stood a good chance of all surviving another day. That one of the lower number posters had posted something that might be incriminating which might be drawn attention to by that persons death. Greenie might be the likeliest candidate for that. So htat is what I am going to look at aswell as that vote mayhem.....

[Thinlómien]

I'm not sure if agree with you, Mith. I'm not sure I can follow your logic on how Sally's death incriminates Greenie. And even as the low post-count Aganzir seems to be a wolf we can't unfortunately lynch her as she's the mod. ;)

I think Sally might have been killed because quite many considered her innocent. Also, like Mith already said, her death leaves little tracks. But none of this means we should dismiss what she said yesterDay: I will have a little look at her yesterday's post when I have time and see if there's anything interesting.

Also, yesterday's voting was a bit odd. I'm going to have a look at it right now, especially as I think there might have been a couple of things I would have responded to had I had more time.

[Macalaure]

I'm surprised to see Sally dead, I have to say. What can we take from her death, apart from some warm clothing? :smokin:

There's only really two things she did yesterDay, apart from being entertaining.
She defended Lommy from Menel and me, and she voted Boro on a gut feeling.

Boro, Lily and Lommy thought she was innocent (Boro repeated it several times even).

Nogrod, Durelin and Rikae thought she was suspicious, but none of them seriously considered voting for her.

Many said they were confused by Sally.

Sally’s death probably has the main goal to leave no track. I guess this is a good strategy in a giftless village. Nevertheless, it points towards careful wolves. Are they careful because it’s their nature, because they’ve been under strong suspicion already, or because it’s a cold-blooded strategy?
What I don't understand is: Why pick a no-trailer who causes confusion when other, less confusing, no-trailers are there to choose from. Maybe they thought her death would cause sufficient confusion, more than anybody else's death.

Both Boro voters are dead now. Does this point towards him being a wolf? I don’t think so. Sally went by gut when she voted him, so she would likely have changed her mind today. Boro was very sure about Sally’s innocence yesterDay and I’m not sure what to make of that.

I feel good / a little better about the people who have suspected Sally yesterDay (Nogrod, Durelin, Rikae), because to them she could have served as a future lynch candidate. I also think better of THE Ka, because she said she enjoyed Sally's posts and it would be cold-blooded indeed to kill her after that.

[THE Ka]

I may be blind, but poor Emily, she sounded off like an earthquack, I mean, -quake. And Sally too, it will be quite boring now being the only old wise cracking lass around. *sniff* Sometimes I think wolvies are unfair to our disabilities...


Ahem anyways, I have a bit of a question. Volo, if you changed your mind, and tried to retract a vote, why didn't you just edit it within your post, before you posted it?
No worries of course, but I am curious about your format, it seems somewhat of a signal to someone or something if you did a 'stream-of-thought' vote.
It doesn't seem something to take so lightly, now is it?

He is suspicious after all.

Yes, but so are many of us, and you.

I'm also curious about citing Nogrod's early suspicions as a grounding source for your vote, could you explain your reasoning a bit more please?

That is all I have now, because I have a long day ahead where I won't be able to access a computer, but I will be back well before the deadline.
Sorry about leaving so early, but I promise I will be able to vote this time around and stop making the mistake of putting the game's deadline in my time zone... :rolleyes:

~ Ka

[Nogrod]

And some people say my narrations can be grotesque at times... :rolleyes:

I'm bending towards the same explanation as Lommy that Sally was killed because she wasn't suspected too much and her death seems to leave no tracks. But it still is kind of out of the blue choice. Maybe the wolves just wanted us to waste the whole Day searching for the (possibly non-existant) sense behind that?

But I'm up to see the voting as well first.

EDIT: X'd with Mac and Ka

[Macalaure]

I guess Sally went becasue she posted little and left little trace - but Aganzir and McCaber also had a low post count.YesterDay, Aganzir only posted very early in the Day, and very close to the deadline. ToDay, it appears like she's going to do the same. I'd say this is worrying indeed. :eek:

:D

*hides*

[Mithalwen]

I'm not sure if agree with you, Mith. I'm not sure I can follow your logic on how Sally's death incriminates Greenie. And even as the low post-count Aganzir seems to be a wolf we can't unfortunately lynch her as she's the mod. ;)
.


Gah ..yes for Aganzir read Greenie .... (if it ain't one Finn its another ;)) ..they all posted less than the mod which is always a little strange ... I meant that if Greenie is innocent she may have been left alive because her posting was more substantive. If she had been killed instead of Sally we would have perhaps looked at her posts and found a clue. So it isn't that Sally's death incriminates Greenie (other than increasing the probability) but that of the low posters, Greenie's death might have given us more clues.. or not...

However since Greenie presumably is sharing a computer with someone who posts a lot...there may be absolutely nothing in this...... I was thinking aloud...

[Mithalwen]

YesterDay, Aganzir only posted very early in the Day, and very close to the deadline. ToDay, it appears like she's going to do the same. I'd say this is worrying indeed. :eek:

:D

*hides*


*searches for the largest wooden spoon in the house*
Bear in mind young man that I am not one of those parents who don't believe in the efficacy of corporal punishment in exceptional cases ... and in some cases capital punishment might be apropriate...

[Mithalwen]

Glut of cross posting .... interesting that you all suddenly came out of the woodwork :rolleyes: any reason why you didn't break cover sooner? I mean nothing for an hour then a flurry in ten minutes ... cannot believe you all just arrived....

[Thinlómien]

Ok, I reread late yesterDay posts. Result: I suspect McCaber even more (just look at his vote) and started suspecting Mith: she feels a bit dishonest and is treating Boro quite similarly as Rikae treated Mac in last game. (For those who don't know, Rikae was a wolf and Mac was an innocent and Rikae kept fishing for his trust by bantering with him and claiming his innocence quite loudly. I know Mith and Boro are good friends so I could very well see Mith doing something like that, especially as their in-character roles allow it so smoothly.)

Mac is confusing me. In any ordinary game I'd think he was gifted, because there is a streak of innocent aura in him, but he is wolvishly nervous. However, now the matter is more complicated... His late yesterDay post resembles lommywolf's posts. I do posts like that as a wolf and always fail to see why do people suspect me when I make them. And funnily, now I'm suspecting Mac for making a post like that. :rolleyes: On the other hand, after rereading the post, I'm not finding it as bad as I did yesterDay. True, it's defensive but there are some good or goodish points in there and it gaves me a vaguely innocent gut-feeling. But nevertheless, it was quite nervousily defensive of him to post it at all in a manner like that so truth be told I'm quite baffled.

Nogrod - you semi-suspected a handful of people and said you'd elaborate if you have time. Do you still suspect those people and why did/do you suspect them?

I also think better of THE Ka, because she said she enjoyed Sally's posts and it would be cold-blooded indeed to kill her after that.Not sure I entirely agree. I don't think that a Wolf-Ka would suggest killing Sally, but she might agree with such a proposal, so in my opinion Sally's death does not exonerate THE Ka.

edit: xed with Mith's triple posting

[Nogrod]

The tally with minutes before the deadline the vote was cast in brackets.

(early votes)
Sally -> Boro
Gwath -> Boro 2

(-46) Menel -> Mac (Boro 2, Mac 1)
(-27) Boro -> Gwath (Boro 2, Mac 1, Gwath 1)

(-9) Greenie -> Gwath (Boro 2, Gwath 2, Mac 1)

(-6) Rikae -> Gwath (Gwath 3, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-4) Mith -> Gwath (Gwath 4, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-3) McCaber -> Gwath (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-2) Dury -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 1)
(-2) Nogrod -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2)
(-2) Volo -> Ka (trying to retract to Gwath) (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2, The Ka 1)

(-1) Lommy -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

(00) Mac -> Gwath (Gwath 6, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

+ on overtime
The Ka -> McCaber

[EDIT: Nerwen didn't vote.]

Thoughts coming soon...

[Thinlómien]

However since Greenie presumably is sharing a computer with someone who posts a lot...there may be absolutely nothing in this...... I was thinking aloud...She is sharing a computer with me, yes, but I think her relative quietness is her own choice, I'm not occupying the computer all the time. :D The only change in her (or my) behaviour that can be caused by us sharing the computer is that we might be a little less vocal right around the deadline and both of us can't vote über-late.

Glut of cross posting .... interesting that you all suddenly came out of the woodwork any reason why you didn't break cover sooner? I mean nothing for an hour then a flurry in ten minutes ... cannot believe you all just arrived....Interesting observation yet I'm not sure if it means anything. For my part, I was doing a huge grimoire-research (you can check it from the time stamp of my post on that thread ;)) not hiding deliberatedly and waiting for someone else to post...

edit: xed with Woggles

[Mithalwen]

Well statistically one of us should be a wolf. I know it isn't me and if you are innocent Lommie it narrows the possibilities!!!!! Of course we all may have been distracted - me by fangirldom - however maybe one of us was reluctanct ot look conspicuous? I don't know.

[Nogrod]

The first thing that confuses me in yesterDay's voting is the fact that even if it felt that many people started thinking lynching of Gwath a bad idea during the last half hour he still got lynched with a clear majority. And I must say that the merry agreement reached by that great numbers looks fishy indeed. Is there a greater place to hide for a wolf but within an unanimous bandwaggon?

Okay there is the question of relative risk we already discussed yesterDay. But I also think it a bit far-fetched that so many declared while voting that they don't want to see Boro lynched - which I think never was an actual option. So some sweet-talkin there?

Also Volo's vote looks not only confusing (the retraction thing) but also a bit fishy as he says two minutes before the deadline that he is "widening the vote scope"! And that in practice nailed it down and took Gwath to the gallows - or saved McCaber, whichever way you want to see it.

EDIT: X'd with a few

[Mithalwen]

Ooh that put a damper on the conversation? Am I on to something or are you just winding me up?

[Macalaure]

Menel's vote looks suspicious
Lommy and Mac have been noted as odd, and I'm inclined to suspect Mac more.
He picks out two that have been mentioned by many and votes one of them. He gives no reason of his own. It looks like he tried to start a bandwaggon against one who was likely to attract a few votes.

Boro and Lily give the first votes for Gwath. Neither looks particularly suspicious or innocent.

Rikae puts him in the lead, but she votes according to her prior suspicions.

Mith's vote would look bad if Boro is a wolf

McCaber's vote looks not too good. Not so much because of who he voted for and at what time, but because of his reasoning.

Durelin and Nogrod start the counter-waggon, which is innocent-looking.

Volo's vote is entirely confused. I'm not sure whether innocently or not.

Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't.

[Nogrod]

Menel's vote looks suspicious

He picks out two that have been mentioned by many and votes one of them. He gives no reason of his own. It looks like he tried to start a bandwaggon against one who was likely to attract a few votes.That action of his is following the very same pattern I suspected him on yesterDay and even if Boro managed to speak me away from trying to get him lynched (and yes I had my doubts as I know something of his history as well and he tends to be lynched on Day1's most of the time as he's so lynchably suspicious-looking everytime) I will keep him on my list of suspicions.

McCaber's vote looks not too good. Not so much because of who he voted for and at what time, but because of his reasoning.I was about to say that I disagree as it was clear he was trying to save his own neck and go for the leader in votes but then I just realised he didn't actually mention that being his reason. An innocent would have no problem saying that aloud or a seasoned wolf. Then again he has played quite sneakily and well the first games he's been in - or have we just been too easy on him this far (in the earlier two games)? It would be quite a track-record: three games; twice a wolf and once a cobbler (and winning all the time)!

Volo's vote is entirely confused. I'm not sure whether innocently or not.I wouldn't hold it impossible Volo tried to save McCaber... but I need to look a bit more about them before saying more about it. It may be I kind of over-lived with the last minute bandwaggoning yesterDay and got a bit carried away looking Volo's vote as more malignant it actually was.

[Mithalwen]

Mac dear, wpould you ahve preferred me to vote for you - that was the only other option given I believed Boro-dear innocent ? At least at the time I actually voted...

[Mithalwen]

well that was confusing. I have to go now, I hope things will be clearer tomorrow as I won't have a lot of time.

[Macalaure]

Mac dear, wpould you ahve preferred me to vote for you - that was the only other option given I believed Boro-dear innocent ? At least at the time I actually voted...

I certainly wouldn't have preferred you to vote for me. However, your desire to save Boro would make you look bad if he is evil. But then, you're so open about wanting to save him, I doubt a wolf would be so close to another. There's the possibility that you're evil and trying to get the trust of Bordomir, but I think there are better leads to follow at the moment.

[Mithalwen]

That would be a pointless activity. And I hope I would not be quite so crass .... in game marriage or not ..
If Boro is a wolf I am just wrong not a fellow wolf. Rikae's vote had taken the pressure off saving his neck. If I had been a wolf I would have voted for you for certain to avoid this suspicion. It is probably not fair but if push comes ot shove - which is often the case on day ones - I prefer to keep around those I feel are innocent :rolleyes:, people I enjoy playing with, and people who contribute a lot to the game. I don't know Gwathagor at all but I know it would have been a pity to lose you or Boro so soon. Innocent or guilty you are players...

and I really must go now...

[Boromir88]

I really don't trust Mith now. Usually she is a "breath of fresh air" like our dear Kath (who not be present in this village); something seems rotten with her:

Maybe I should have gone for Mac but I feel more strongly about Boro's innocence than anyone's guilt....~Mith

This doesn't sit right...you feel "strongly" about my innocence, eh, dear? Do you feel so "strongly" that you know I'm innocent? (So, at this point...just to make sure everyone is on the same page...I'm saying Mithis a wolf).

I guess Sally went becasue she posted little and left little trace - but Aganzir and McCaber also had a low post count.
As pointed out Agan is not a viable option...but are you simply "guessing" sally went because of such and such...or do you know for a fact? (Again, if we aren't clear, I'm saying here Mith is a wolf).

This argument is one of my favorites to see...
Well statistically one of us should be a wolf. I know it isn't me and if you are innocent Lommie it narrows the possibilities!!!!!
(and so we're all clear, I'm saying here Mith is a wolf)

I wonder if Mith is handing herself over to us as a sacrifice today, because she's doing a good job of posting often today, yet not saying anything. Mith's typical calm, reserved self is refreshing to have in a hectic village, but she's not doing that. She's posting either a bunch of nonsensical buddy-buddy stuff, or is pushing for the lynching of the quieter people.

My adorable puppy is calling to go have some fun in the snow, so I will be away, then I have a conference from 7 til about 9 pm, but I'll be back before heading to bed tonight to respond to Nogrod's point...

But I also think it a bit far-fetched that so many declared while voting that they don't want to see Boro lynched - which I think never was an actual option. So some sweet-talkin there?

While I am touched yall wanted to save me...I smell a set up a brewing.

I just wanted to bring out my uneasiness about Mith, that's what struck out at me early on in this day.

[Nogrod]

I took a quick scroll through yesterDay to look at both Volo and McCaber as they left me puzzled in the end of the Day.

McCaber's posts can be given here in their entirety as there is not much of them.

Early post:
Nice to see you, too, Sally. As much as I don't want to become a Cabe-kabob, maybe I'll actually give you something to look at this time. And Pappa Volo, I'll try not to disappoint you toDay.

I do enjoy the more experienced ones throwing around suspicion. So I think I'll try it too:

I like how Gwath is refraining from forming an opinion. He could be not trying to leave a paper trail of suspects. Not a full-on point yet, but it could become one.

Anyway, I'll return soon with some serious thoughts in a while. Supper awaits, if I can find some in this house of doom.

Ten minutes before the deadline: Please don't forget I exist. I'll even try to be loud on the next Days to make up for this. I'm in the middle of prepping for class, but I should still have time to vote.

Boro seems to know what he's doing, and he raises good points. I would prefer it was not him lynched today.

Gwath looks bad to me, but I'm still not sure. I'll get some thoughts soon and vote quickly.

Three minutes before: I hate to this, but here it is.

++Gwathagor

I'm still not completely sure, but several things he did just put me off.

And now here I am joining a bandwagon...
Now there is something here that looks contradictory or wrong. A kind of self-conscious "newbieness" added with vagueness that feels deliberate. Let me give a few examples to explain (read more form the posts above):
- "I do enjoy the more experienced ones throwing around suspicion. So I think I'll try it too:"
- "Please don't forget I exist. I'll even try to be loud on the next Days to make up for this."
- "And now here I am joining a bandwagon..."

And he managed to sail through the whole Day with no one in practise even realising he was in the game in the first place! In his first games he has used basically the same tactics - only taking a bit more bigger role later in the game.

What I mean is that he should not be underestimated because he wears a newbie-mask for a mask it is I must say: he was just superb in his first games. I'm not sure if this is enough to lynch him but if he's a submarine-wolf we can't but blame ourselves in the end. In the last two games people fell for it.

Darn it's getting late.

I'll post my thoughts on Volo tomorrow as I have an early morning call...

[Nerwen]

Hello. Once again, I have failed to vote on Day One. I'm sorry– I'm doing a rather heavy course and possibly I shouldn't have signed up for the game.

I will look at Sally's posts in detail, because someone needs to, though as I recall she didn't say much of any substance.

I also need to read through the posts around the deadline, because it seems like there was some peculiar stuff happening there.

Back soon.

[Rikae]

Well, there we go. My top two suspects were innocent -- don't listen to me.

I'm actually pretty mystified at the moment, I'll admit. I have a creepy feeling about Lommy, and it's only getting creepier, but as I can't explain it I can't really rely on it much. Mith's "certainty" of Boro's innocence and Boro's mistrust of Mith look very odd - I'm inclined to think there may be a wolf between them.
McCaber's insubstantialness yesterday can be busyness and dayoneishness, but I agree with Nogrod that those comments -- which seem rather selfconscious -- were strange.

I'm going to look over yesterday's votes a little more closely when I get the chance -- perhaps some wolf voted suspciously safely or something -- worth a look, anyway. As for Sally's death, it seems odd to me in that she was attracting some suspicion -- I would expect the wolves to choose someone generally seen as innocent. Still, I've never been one to think much can be learned from nightly kills -- there are too many variables (in the last game, Legate, Cab and I chose Lommy simply because everyone else got killed early too often, or was new!) Not to be discouraging, mind you, but I can't make anything of it, at least.

EDIT: Spelling, X'd with Nerwen

[McCaber]

Wow, Day 2 and I'm already at the center of attention. Thanks, guys. I guess I deserve it, though.

One point, though. When I voted, Gwath was the worst-looking of my suspects. I was considering others, but I went with my initial feelings. And If I'm not mistaken, the Caber-waggon started rolling just before my vote, but it really picked up just after. My vote was not to save myself. If it was, I would have said so.

Now I need to take a long look at things and say something constructive.

[Durelin]

Well, I suppose Sally was telling the truth this time. :rolleyes:

As everyone seems to be, I am at a loss about Sally. The first Night with a kill, and it's the most sporadic player...I don't see there being any trails to follow back to anyone. And I agree with Rikae. The nightly kills only say so much. It's what people say and do during the Day that really counts. Which brings me to...

That landslide against Gwath still bothers me. Of course the initial run for Boro confuses me, but that's a slightly less worrisome feeling.

That was such an easy lynch after enough people started jumping on Gwath's "mistakes." Which brings me back to Rikae. :p Her hesitance to vote for Gwath rather than just making her vote and blending in with the rest makes me feel better about her.

And I agree with several people (Boro, Mac...who else?) that there is something fishy about the whole "oh it's to save Boro!" thing.

For one thing, as Boro has pointed out himself...we don't know who is innocent, unless we are guilty ourselves. Secondly...Gwath got 6 legitimate votes, 7 with Volo's. I'd say that's a bit more than just saving him.

A Little Green, Mith, and McCaber seem the most guilty to me. I don't expect all three are, but possibly two. McCaber actually seems the least guilty of the three now that I look back. Yes, I know, makes me look like an idiot for trying to start a run at him, but with that deadline coming up fast I did not quite have the time to think about it. Which is no excuse, but hey... McCab just seems so careless in his posts and really I think his vote was rather careless, unless of course he wasn't aware that he was getting any attention (which I guess is careless, too...).

Mac also bothers me. He could have just voted for Lommy if he really wanted to make a statement, instead of just off-handedly wishing she was a lynch-candidate. But that would stand out more.

*shrugs and wanders off*

[Nerwen]

Sally–

#22. Silly banter. Asks Gwath if he's volunteering himself to be lynched (this is because he posted first and said "First!"). Says she suspects McCaber– but this seems to be a joke (I'm not sure he'd even posted yet).

#29. Tone still jokey, but there is a bit more substance. Finds Mac and Menel somewhat suspicious for going after Lommy, but finds Lommy's explanation of her playing style odd too. Then says,

I do the same thing a lot of times. I'm a terrible bluff, so if I'm lying it's pretty easy to catch me on it. Besides, I'm insufferably honest, which also means that if I am a wolf, I won't lie about it.

Then she again expresses her desire to lynch McCaber, but again it sounds like a joke– no reason given.

#32. Short post, all banter.

#50. (Replying to Rikae) I'm not a wolf. And don't worry, I really am not a wolf. I promise.

Says she hates first days and that she has nothing really to go on, just silly banter and half-hearted accusations :D:D

#77. Votes Boro, giving no reason other than gut feeling. Yet more banter.

That's it. She hasn't said anything that I can see as making her dangerous.

I'd say she was picked as a safe kill– except that she's said things that would have made her an easy lynch toDay. She was also under suspicion because of the perceived connection between her and Durelin. YesterDay most people were taking the line, "Oh well, that's Sally– who knows?" –but surely it would have been easy for the wolves to turn that around.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

[THE Ka]

I mean nothing for an hour then a flurry in ten minutes ... cannot believe you all just arrived....

Time zones probably, well, for me at least. It's a bad habit of looking to my clock at the wrong time and posting when it's 'talk time' here. I'm really trying to break out of it.

It does seem obvious that Sally was unfortunately a very good move for the wolves, one example I think that lead to this was her confessing that she wasn't a wolf and our general impression of this.

Either you believed or didn't believe her, but she didn't give any ultimate vibes immediately that she was a wolf bluffing in the worst way possible, or she was acting out as fenris bait (where one wolf takes the dive to fuddle up the reasoning of the villagers. I don't know how common this is now, but I've been fenris bait before and they certainly bit, and played in another game where wolves tried the same thing and ended up ruining the reasoning we made.).
It's only a thing wolves would do if they were either very confident of the action, or they knew by leading astray and making up a new suspicion list that they could afford to loose one of their own and bag the villagers at the same time. Though, this is reasonably done later in the game, so even if Sally was a wolf, I don't think our wolvie friends would do this (if they didn't already know about it yet.).

Though, since Sally really didn't make any strong or direct connection to a group or certain player, she was isolated and our current suspicion list pushed her towards the bottom, where we were expecting maybe Nogrod or Nerwen to be attacked last Night (which would make us say, "Ah ha! See? They attacked them because they pushed too many of the right buttons!"), but by taking Sally out of the picture is a random killing at first, but a good one that has no leads.

Unfortunately, wolvies, I think you can only play that card maybe once or twice before it becomes old like herring, and we smell something fishy.
Plus, everyone seems to know one another well enough to suspect each other, so it won't be as easy to pick someone out at random this time, unless they just don't post at all, but that is a loss for both parties since no one learns anything.

Not sure I entirely agree. I don't think that a Wolf-Ka would suggest killing Sally, but she might agree with such a proposal, so in my opinion Sally's death does not exonerate THE Ka.


Good point. Mac, thank you, but that isn't the strongest point to make in arguing for my innocence or no. If I was a wolf arguing last night that killing Sally would be beneficial to diverting attention or just general confusion, I would agree, but I have more inclination to hit more to the point and save my own skin and any suspicion around me so that my fellow wolves would not loose anymore than they need to (as a wolf, you have to be oh so selfish for the greater good of wolfy kind.). Sally's attack was a good one, but I prefer an observation, wait for someone else to make the first move, then strike somewhere that is more generally to my benefit method, but not too obvious (like going after someone that has been hounding at you all Day... generally they are loud enough for other players to remember what they said.) so that it labels me or fellow wolves in the game the next Day.

I'd like to say more, but I need to go over a few more posts again, and I'm awaiting Volo to appear sometime and answer my question... hopefully, if he wants to be that honest.:rolleyes:

~ Ka

[Meneltarmacil]

Ungh...

I have a lot of work to do, and I doubt I'll be posting much at all toDay.

I'm inclined to suspect Mac and McCaber. The former was suspicious enough yesterDay, and I doubt that the Gwathagor bandwagon was entirely wolf-free. McCaber got a lot of votes near the end, and if he's a Wolf, it would explain why the Gwathwagon needed reinforcement.

I know, I should provide more reasons, etc. but I don't have the time right now. I'm sorry.

*goes back to drowning in homework*

[Rikae]

A Not So Brief History of the Lynching of St. Gwathagor, Ordo and Martyr.
(if you feel I misrepresented you, please correct me)


Joking (except things after dashes)
Lommy banters with Gwath.
Nogrod says Lommy is making sense, unlike Gwath.
Mac says to Gwath “First to be lynched? Not a problem. I can manage. :P”
----Menel suspects Lommy for provoking and casting suspicion on Gwath.
----Lommy denies casting suspicion on Gwath.
Sally continues joking about Gwath volunteering for lynching.
----Menel insists Lommy cast suspicion on Gwath, refers to it as “abuse”

Beginning of mild suspicion
McCaber says Gwath is avoiding leaving a paper trail, refraining from forming an opinion.
---- Gwath argues with Menel about Lommy, saying people's playing styles do change as wolves.


Gwath's “jump” on Boro (* for suspicion, @ for defense --- including mild and indirect)
---- Gwath argues with Boro about Sally and Durelin and why they overlooked Boro's suspicion.
*Rikae analyzes Gwath's indirect defense of Sally and Durelin, concludes he may be a wolf with one.
Gwath says it was not a defense, but more a criticism of Boro.
----Gwath says first days are rubbish until they're over, and after that they're just cryptic.
Gwath says he didn't actually defend Sally and Durelin until his “fix it” post.
@Nerwen thinks Sally and Durelin might be suspicious but it's less likely Gwath is part of it.
@Nerwen defends Gwath, saying he was trying to be helpful and offer an alternative explanation.
@Greenie thinks Rikae's accusation of Gwath is worrisome for leaving out the possibility Nerwen just mentioned. Says Gwath looks genuine enough.
@Lommy says Rikae wants everyone to keep talking about the Lommygwathsallydurelinboro thing. (look, no dashes! :P)
*Rikae clarifies she was calling Gwath's first post the defense, calls it very knee-jerk and jumpy.
Rikae says Lommy and Mac are probably more suspicious than Gwathsallydurelin.
*Boro says Rikae is onto something with suspicions of Gwath. Thinks Greenie is defending Gwath suspciously.
*Nogrod calls Gwath's indirect defense of Sally and Durelin fishy.
*Nogrod says two out of Sallydurelingwath could well be wolves.
Durelin says that Gwath is defensive (along with Mac) and attempting to be very pleasant (along with Menel and Nogrod)
Greenie puts Gwath in her yellowish-green zone


Gwath's Vote for Boro
Gwath votes for Boro for “anti-rational methodology”
*Greenie says she's uneasy about Gwath's vote
*Boro says Gwath's vote looks evil.
@ Volo says Gwath looks innocent to him.
*Rikae more suspicious of Gwath and Sally because of their votes, puts Gwath in wolfiest category.
Boro asks for Nogrod's thoughts on Gwath and Volo. [my note: Wolf looking for a bandwagon?]
*Lommy calls Gwath's vote suspcious, but “he could be the easy newbie lynch victim”. Puts him in most suspicious category.
@ Menel says Gwath doesn't seem too suspicious, given that Mac seemed more aggressive than Boro.
*Nogrod says “the alarm bells are ringing a bit louder now” for Gwath. He lists Menel and Mac as more suspicious, though.
*Mac says he doesn't like Gwath's vote, and Boro has a point against him.
*Lommy “could vote for Volo, McCaber, Gwath or Mac”.
Boro votes for Gwath
*Nogrod says Gwath may be a good candidate “he has raised enough eyebrows”, his vote, and his death might shed light on the Sally/Dury thing.
@Lommy says she'd rather vote Volo or Cabbie than Gwath.
@Durelin calls Gwath's vote “too bold for a wolf”, Gwath “too easy pickins'”
Rikae understands where Durelin's coming from, but still, Gwath is the best suspicion she's got.
*Mith says it wouldn't be the first time a novice wolf made the first post.
*McCaber says Gwath looks bad to him, but he's still not sure.
Greenie votes for Gwath (his vote is horrible and his lynching will shed light on things)
Volo says Gwath might be a wolf, but feels too easy.
Rikae votes for Gwath
Mith votes for Gwath “I don't want Boro lynched”
McCaber votes for Gwath
Volo votes for Gwath
Mac votes for Gwath “but I'd very much prefer Lommy”




Now, a few thoughts:


Nogrod helped gradually raise the suspicion level on Gwath, but did not vote for him. Slightly creepy...
Nerwen looks more or less sincere.
Durelin's certainty of Gwath's innocence seems possibly too certain.
Boro does indeed look bad. He played a major role in building suspicion towards Gwath but did not start it, and fished around for support before voting.
The way Mith pops in with added accusations once the bandwagon has begun to roll, but acts as though her vote is to protect Boro, looks a bit fishy.
Mac didn't do anything particularly suspicious in yesterday's voting. There is still something I don't like in his tone, though.
Menel says things that don't make sense, as far as I can see, but I don't know if that's necessarily wolfish.
Volo is off the wall and votes for Gwath after having defended him. Explanation?
The way McCaber came to his decision, although not very helpful, seems honest enough.
THE Ka managed to stay out of the whole controversy completely. Not sure what to make of that...
Lommy first defends Gwath, then is fairly neutral and doesn't vote for him. Not suspicious in this regard.
Greenie follows the crowd in a rather suspcious manner.

If yesterday's voting shook out a few wolves from their hiding places, I think there is a good chance they'll be found among some combination of Boro, Mith, Greenie, or possibly Nogrod or Durelin.

EDIT: Added a space, because I'm geeky like that.

[Nerwen]

Let's not overlook Volo. I mean, that vote of his...

[Thinlómien]

Ok Rikae is probably innocent, or then she is a wolf putting a lot of effort to seeming so.

Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't.Even if I was a wolf, it wouldn't have been either risky or smart: I cross-posted with Durelin and Nogrod, as I - quite clearly, I think - marked. :rolleyes:

Boromir looks worse than he did... but I'm afraid I'm just affected by the village consensus. *deep sigh* I need to take a closer look at him and decide for myself.

There's something fishy about Nogrod. I can't define it, but everything does not seem right. I think I'll keep an eye on him. Besides he has quite effectively flown under my radar this far.

More vague bad feelings á la Thinlómien:
Good point. Mac, thank you, but that isn't the strongest point to make in arguing for my innocence or no. If I was a wolf arguing last night that killing Sally would be beneficial to diverting attention or just general confusion, I would agree, but I have more inclination to hit more to the point and save my own skin and any suspicion around me so that my fellow wolves would not loose anymore than they need to (as a wolf, you have to be oh so selfish for the greater good of wolfy kind.). Sally's attack was a good one, but I prefer an observation, wait for someone else to make the first move, then strike somewhere that is more generally to my benefit method, but not too obvious (like going after someone that has been hounding at you all Day... generally they are loud enough for other players to remember what they said.) so that it labels me or fellow wolves in the game the next Day.Something in this just seems wrong. Whether it's the general tone, the length in which wolf tactics are discussed or the actual content, I don't know. Nevertheless THE Ka feels less innocent then yesterDay.

I seem to have a lot of undecidedness and vague bad feelings and a couple of people (Nogrod, Greenie, and Durelin & THE Ka to some extent) have slipped under my radar. In short, I'm rather unsure of things and confused yet having a lot of suspicions. I think I'll reread the thread when I have an hour off after the next lesson and look at everybody more precisely and analytically. Right now I don't have time for that.

[Macalaure]

I'm rather confused about the who could be a wolf, at the moment.

Nogrod looks fair, but feels foul. I can't put my finger on it yet, but I strongly hesitate t trust him.
Nerwen looks innocent enough for now, but I'm not sure.
Rikae feels most innocent of all, but I learnt recently to be careful about saying this about her
Of Durelin I'm not sure.
Boromir88 falls into the same category as Nogrod. A vague bad feeling.
Mithalwen puzzles me.
Meneltarmacil would be my top suspect at the moment, but there's something telling me I'm getting something wrong there.
I need to take a closer look on Volo later. He's the biggest question mark to me right now.
McCaber.... he seems too easy a choice to me, at least at the moment.
THE Ka looks reasonably innocent.
Thinlómien.... absolutely no idea.
A Little Green looks more innocent than guilty.

Maybe it's because we don't have a seer that nobody is acting really nervous. Maybe the benefit of the seer is not only in his actual dreams, but also in the pressure he puts on the wolves indirectly.


Even if I was a wolf, it wouldn't have been either risky or smart: I cross-posted with Durelin and Nogrod, as I - quite clearly, I think - marked. :rolleyes:Oops. I overlooked that.

[Volo]

Hey, I haven't read through what has been said, just about skimmed through. I'll do that later today and participate more.

However, it looks like my vote is a topic. I might not have had good explanations to why I voted for Gwath, but otherwise than that it looks completely clear to me.

Q: Why Gwath?
A: He looked more suspicious than McCaber.

Q: Why did I "vote" Ka first?
A: I though that Gwath isn't suspicious enough to be lynched so I wanted to vote somebody else. Since I didn't have enough time to read through Ka's (or others') posts I had to guess. Then I thought that even if I did vote for Ka I wouldn't have affected anything, so I went safe and voted for Gwath.
For me it was completely clear that the vote for Gwath would count. Sorry, Aganzir, but I'm a bit disappointed that it wasn't to you.


From yesterDay, I find Boro, Mith and Ka suspicious. Right now I don't have anything to point at, but I remember that there was something. I'll see to it later toDay.


Now to a chemistry lesson.

[Volo]

I suggest that you (and I too will) go through people, who concentrate on my vote more than needed. It's format isn't confusing, whoever makes a big deal about it might be trying to sidetrack the discussion.

Ok, bye.

[Thinlómien]

I really can't understand Volo. He votes in a manner that is very questionable - he himself could not have been sure if his vote counts at all and if it does, does it count for Ka or Gwath - and then claims it's a minor thing we shouldn't be concentrating on. I spent some time thinking about this in my art lesson and concluded that it seems very unprobable an innocent would be that careless of his vote - it is the only way of eliminating wolves. I mean, no innocent would take a joke or demonstration of his confusion as far as to risk his vote being legitimate or for the correct person.

Secondly, it occured to me that with no seer wolves dare to be more bold because there is no one whose special attention they don't wish to attract. Thus I would not be surprised at all by bold or eccentric wolf actions. Again the accusing finger points at Volo and his ununderstandable vote mess.

Now, I'm off to reread...

[Thinlómien]

Some observations:

The more I read Mac, the more innocent he seems. I said I didn't understand his suspicion of nogrod yesterday, but now it makes a bit more sense. He has a habit of predicting his own death and talking what the village has to do when he's dead so I can very well see him starting that as a wolf. I don't know, it's just a bit odd. Back to the topic of Mac, I think his latest post feels very innocent, but I'm not ready to trust him yet (not that I would trust anyone in this village but there some I'm not very troubled about). The fact that he is wolvishy defensive remains.

McCaber surely seems suspicious, but I'm a bit concerned about how wide-spread the suspicion of him is. I don't like the almost unanimous consensus against him. (I know I'm part of it as well and have been one of those who've suspected him the most. Nevertheless I think there's something wrong with this situation.) Yes, and there's something wrong with McCaber himself.

I confess. I have closed my eyes from Durelin's suspiciousness, because I didn't want her to be a wolf or to suspect her in general or most importantly, get her lynched early, because she's playing after such a long while and I like playing with her, but now I must admit there's something fishy about her. She's not my top suspect or anything like that, but she seems to play a bit too neatly, if you know what I mean. But still she seems quite honest at times and I think her voting yesterDay looks quite innocent... argh. She's a difficult one.

There is some hint of edginess or aggressiveness to Boro that is usually only found in Wolf88s. But I'm not actually getting "bad vibes" of him and there is nothing in particular to raise my alarms, in fact he seems pretty honest and innocent. It might be only that I haven't played with him for a while and I don't properly remember how he's like or that he hasn't played for a while and is only being accustomed to playing again. But on the other hand, those explanations sound a bit far-fetched as I don't think there really is a very long time at all when he last played. Anyway, what I wanted to say was - I guess - that he seems innocent but I have mild reservations about him that are based on his manner.

I know, Menel seems terribly suspicious from an objective perspective and has been so all the time but he always is, so I'm quite baffled. Yesterday I was inclined to believe he is a suspicious innocent, now I'm not so sure. Well, usually when he's a wolf he slips something or does something completely false-sounding. Maybe I'll refrain from judging him before he does that. ;)

Secondly, I'm rather annoyed at myself at the moment. I just noticed that I have a tendency to automatically trust people who make long and fruitful(-looking) analyses of others. In this round, I find Rikae and Nerwen rather innocent. I'm not sure I like this how she first questions her tendency and then happily claims she trusts Rikae and Nerwen, the analysers. Granted, she continues with questioning Rikae's judgement, but there's something odd here, I think. There is really little to go on about Greenie and I wish she'd post a lot toDay. (Even if the cost of it is that I must post less. ;))

Despite the rather fishy wolf-tactic musing I pointed out earlier toDay, THE Ka looks quite innocent. Her after-the-deadline post yesterDay looks very genuine and I have hard time picturing a wolf writing such things and in such manner.

Yes, that was some observations indeed. :rolleyes:

~*~

A list

Innocentish
Nerwen

Slightly innocentish
Rikae
Boro
THE Ka

Neutral
Nogrod
Mac
A Little Green (ugh, she really slips under my radar)

Slightly suspicious-ish
Durelin
Menel

Suspicious-ish
McCaber
Mith

Suspicious
Volo

[Rikae]

I suggest that you (and I too will) go through people, who concentrate on my vote more than needed. It's format isn't confusing, whoever makes a big deal about it might be trying to sidetrack the discussion.

Ok, bye.

Volo, no, the format isn't confusing, but the reasoning behind it is, and your explanation is not an explanation at all, insofar as, assuming you decided to vote for Gwath before hitting "post", there was no reason whatsoever to leave the Ka vote in. No reason, that is, except to make a bigger case that your vote was reluctant...?

And threatening people to keep them from looking at your vote is not an innocent looking thing to do (and draws more attention to you, not less!)

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, I don't have many real leads. I agree with Boro's sentiment that Mithalwen has been posting a lot but saying little. This is suspicious.

Then there's McCaber. Problem with him is that he tends to be suspicious wherever he goes. Yet, I can see what everyone sees in him. His constant suspicion of Gwath with little reason other than "He hasn't formed an opinion" puts me off. Why should anyone have formed a definite opinion that early on?

I doubt I'll be doing much on here later (big day, lots of work), so

++McCaber

[Mithalwen]

OK I don't have time as you know and noone was around when I did - why perhaps I posted lots and said little.

All I am going to say is as Phantom's most devoted disciple is:

I am not a wolf.

I have never been wrongly lynched but if you decide to change that record well you know what to do when you find that I have spoken the truth.

I will try to vote.

[Mithalwen]

By the way I nver said I was certain of Boro's innocence but I am an instinctive player and I felt it to be so... heigh ho....

[A Little Green]

Okay, I'm here. Off to read the posts, back soon.

[Nerwen]

Well, I'm back. This is just letting you all know that I will be voting shortly, because I can't guarantee being around near the deadline, and I'm in danger of getting modfired.

Some thoughts on people:


Rikae, Lommy and Mac seem okay to me, as of the time of posting.

The Ka– does she always ramble this much? That latest post of hers (#178) literally gave me a headache. The gist of it seems to be that that although Sally was under some suspicion, she was really the safest kill because her death didn’t point to anyone. So far, well and good– but then it turns into a rather creepy description of her preferred wolfing tactics... I don’t know what to make of her.

Durelin likewise.

Menel seems to have fallen off the radar, and after yesterDay I think he should be on it.

I’ll second (or third) the opinion that Boro and Nogrod seem slippery– and both of them certainly played a part in getting Gwath killed. However, I never like to vote people without more to go on. Also Boro's suspicions of Mithalwen today strike me as quite genuine.

Leading me to–

Mith– her reasons for voting Gwath look rather bad. Half of her posts toDay sound vaguely sinister, the other half just vague. (Btw, what is the count now of people using the “If I were a wolf I’d do X, and I’m doing Y, so I can’t be a wolf” argument?)

McCaber– Another slippery one, another one who helped start the Gwath bandwagon, another one who voted in an “I’m not really doing this” kind of way. The combination of all three looks nasty.

Volo. Gave a weird vote, giving a strong impression that he didn’t care who got lynched, and was perhaps trying to vote “informal”. ToDay (#184) he gives an “explanation” that doesn’t help at all, followed by this:

I suggest that you (and I too will) go through people, who concentrate on my vote more than needed. It's format isn't confusing, whoever makes a big deal about it might be trying to sidetrack the discussion.

I mean– WHAT?

EDIT: typo.

[Nogrod]

I promised a few words on Volo so here comes.

- The vote-stuff: yesterDay's actual vote & how he has reacted to it toDay + the possible McCaber connection. Enough has been said I think this far (by me earlier and just a moment ago by Lommy & Rikae).

- There is something that doesn't quite sit right in his general "attitude" this time round. He's pretty quiet, well never been an actual flood-poster, but that's not it. The problem I have is when he constantly says he's rather going to listen to music or feels lazy etc. thus creating an impression he's not actually too enthusiastic about playing - so he's just an innocent villager with nothing to lose. Add to that the low posting that makes him slip under the radar of many of us and it starts to look like perfect wolf-tactics.

- After his remark on Boro, Boro attacked him back to which Volo retaliated with a couple of posts. So not too interested about the game but when suspected interested enough to counter-attack?


So I still think that McCaber and Volo might be in cahoots but am less positive about it I was in the end of yesterDay.

McCaber surely seems suspicious, but I'm a bit concerned about how wide-spread the suspicion of him is. I don't like the almost unanimous consensus against him. (I know I'm part of it as well and have been one of those who've suspected him the most. Nevertheless I think there's something wrong with this situation.) Yes, and there's something wrong with McCaber himself.I'm agreeing with Lommy here although I'm not sure how unanimous this suspicion is in the end. But anyhow what I kind of find disturbing with him is that in almost all of his posts he has promised to be more substantial later. And what has happened? I'd sure like to se something from him and hopefully sooner than later.

I'm now going back to yesterDay once more to check at the Gwath-bandwagon and "let's not lynch Boro" -people. Hopefully there are other leads there as I'm not too convinced about Volo and McCaber - they're just the best I seem to have right now.

[Nerwen]

Well, then–

++Volo.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod.

[Boromir88]

Boro does indeed look bad. He played a major role in building suspicion towards Gwath but did not start it, and fished around for support before voting.~Rikae

I did not fish around for support before voting...that's a disturbing misrepresentation. Look at all the times and the mass of cross-posting. I jumped on something that looked like an evil wolf vote. I asked Nogrod for his thoughts so I could get him to say something about Gwath or Volo two people he hadn't said much (if anything about) and see if I could get any information about Nogrod that way.

Although you could argue that since Gwath was one likely to get lynched yesterday, he'd be easy pickings for a wolf. But my vote came before I could "fish" for support...My vote for Gwath came before Nogrod posted his thoughts on Gwath, because as I said I was interested in getting information about Nogrod.

What I find interesting too is the one's who started out suspecting Gwath, and getting supsicion against him, once it seems like he's going to be lynched than those people distance themselves by saying "Oh he looks too wolvish to be a wolf," but secretly they are smiling because their goal has been accomplished. They got their lynch victim and then they back off a little bit. The "people" who would fall under this are:

Rikae and Volo, who both remarked Gwath seems "too easy" and particularly Rikae was first to start suspicion against Gwath.

Mith's "certainty" of Boro's innocence and Boro's mistrust of Mith look very odd
Interesting how as Mith points out words can easily be changed and twisted to benefit someone's purposes:
By the way I nver said I was certain of Boro's innocence but I am an instinctive player and I felt it to be so... heigh ho....

Rikae and Mith you can say are my main suspects.

I know I've been edgy, wierd, and all out awkward. And I know it looks bad, but there is a RL reason for it, which I will be sure to explain before the day is over. I have to vote soon, I won't be around for a while, don't discuss about this last little bit I'm adding. Let's focus on getting a wolf and I promise I'll explain it all at the proper time.

[A Little Green]

Argh. Now I really am confused.

I wonder why has no one paid any heed to this little quote? Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't. That sounds like he knows Cabbie is a wolf. I mean, WHAT?

I tried to find out something by looking at Mac's statements on Cabbie. In the same post as the strange quote above, he says, McCaber's vote looks not too good. Not so much because of who he voted for and at what time, but because of his reasoning. Doesn't look like he's certain about Cabbie's guilt at the time. He suspects him, of course, but I'd say not enough to write on the assumption that he is a wolf. Later on, he says, McCaber.... he seems too easy a choice to me, at least at the moment. Can't decipher that one.

In addition to the Mac-Cabbie-mess, Lommy actually quoted this same specific passage in her post, and apparently noticed nothing weird in it. Deliberate? She quoted Mac's paragraph and commented it: Even if I was a wolf, it wouldn't have been either risky or smart: I cross-posted with Durelin and Nogrod, as I - quite clearly, I think - marked. She, too, looks like she knows Cabbie is a wolf, or at least assumes it. (On second thought, one could suppose she assumes him guilty after she voted for him... :rolleyes:) I'm not so sure of how she fits in this picture.

What is to be concluded? Could the pack be Mac, Lommy, and Cabbie, or is that too far-fetched? The way Mac just sort of slips it makes me guess he knows Cabbie is a wolf, and because there are no gifteds, the only ones who know everyone's role are the wolves. I'm not sure whether or not I can draw conclusions on Lommy based on this find.

I don't know what to make of this conspiracy theory. I must say it makes both Mac and Cabbie look suspicious. Of Lommy I'm not so sure.

Thoughts?


EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Nerwen and Boro

[Rikae]

Just a comment on Nerwen's "I never like to vote people without more to go on" --
in my experience, wolves are most often caught (without a seer) because their general tone seems off, people have a bad feeling about them, they "seem fair and feel foul", etc. They rarely slip up in blatent ways -- after all, they have reason to play more carefully than ordos -- and tend to survive by subtly keeping attention on the people who do behave strangely or erratically.

Although I don't like lynching strong players early on, I think we need to seriously consider the possibility that one of the really "big" players -- Boro and Nogrod, that is -- is a wolf. Neither of them would slip up in any obvious way if he were, so, in their cases at least, we'll have to judge based on more subtle "vibrations".

EDIT: X'd with Greenie

[Thinlómien]

Now Greenie, that is interesting, but I thought - and still think, although you made me reconsider a little - that by saying it was a risky vote for a wolf Mac meant that had the Caber-wagon succeeded my vote would have been analysed a lot and I would have been blamed for it and a wolf would like to avoid such attention.

But yes actually I'm not even sure if that really makes a lot of sense. To be honest I'm quite baffled and I can hear little wheels turning in my head.

Mac's quote... if it implies that Mac knows what McCab is it could also mean that he knows McCab is an innocent: giving him the nailing vote would be a situation a wolf would like to avoid.

But there is something really odd in here and I'm quite baffled.

I request Mac to come here and explain this mess. :p But I'm just afraid that be he innocent or not he manages to create an explanation that I believe and makes me feel stupid for agreeing even a little with Greenie's theory... :rolleyes:

And now I reread the quote and it seemed just as normal as I first thought it seems. Argh. I need to think about this more, in fact I don't even understand why am I writing my thought process here instead of thinking first and writing then... possibly because it would be against my deepest nature... :rolleyes: Anyway, I'm going away now for a while but I'll be back eventually/soon-ish.

edit: xed with Rikae

[Nogrod]

There had been voices saying we shouldn't lynch Boro on Day1 (including my own when I said I wouldn't like to see Boro, Rikae or Mith go on Day1). When the actual voting began there were then these:

Boro seems to know what he's doing, and he raises good points. I would prefer it was not him lynched today.Boro leading the tally with 2 against one at that time. That indeed takes McCaber apart from the rest in a way as he referred by name only to those two who had garnered votes so far (Boro and Gwath).

Boro might be a Wolf, but I'm reluctant to voting him.Boro 2 - Gwath 2 at that time. Volo also only referred to players who had garnered votes or talked about as possible options - and it was 2-2. Although no one had kind of voiced a desire to vote for Boro either at that time.

I don't want Boro lynched.Putting Gwath to 4 votes against Boro's 2. Quite unnecessary I'd say eg. overdoing it?

I would really not like to see Boro go.Gwath 4 - Boro 2. Now why?

it all feels wrong but voting Boro would feel even more so... *sigh*It was already Gwath 5 - Boro 2. Looks like overdoing it...

Maybe I should have gone for Mac but I feel more strongly about Boro's innocence than anyone's guilt....Still Gwath 5 - Boro 2. :D

So looking at who tried to look nice justifying one's vote also with not wishing to vote for Boro this would make Mith, Lommy and Mac look the most suspicious with possibly Volo trailing behind.

McCaber is an interesting case here as it looks like he chooses between the ones who have garnered votes that far in a hurry. Now is this deliberate tactics - and why to vote for someone who has already gotten votes if the votes given are only three from fifteen when he begins his consideration? A wolfsy way of looking at things?

EDIT: X'd from Greenie onwards...

[Volo]

I'm unsure about voting for Gwath just yet, something tells me that if we turn him into a fenris we might be cutting off any chance of catching other wolves, considering Gwath's pattern of 'agree' then 'disagree', and then going under the radar at times in relation to defending others.
Sorry, Ka, but I can't agree with you. Yes, one might learn more by leaving a newbie Wolf alive to have him/her make more mistakes, but mentioning so that he/she hears it isn't very useful. I'd like more of your, Ka, thoughts on this.

McCabbie (see? I can remember now it's not late... Sorry again Mac ), I really wish would give more reasoning and overall opinion on what others are saying about him, or at least some standing as for position. He is acting very, very different than from last time when he was an ordinary. As for suspicion he is rising on my list, but I am hesitant to vote immediately and brashly. I guess being quite from now on would cause him to loose his skin.Has McCaber actually ever been Innocent? I think he started out in my game, where he was a Cobbler and after that played only in Farael's game where he, looking from what has been said now, a Wolf.

I can't say that either Ka is a Wolf or was confused, because she clearly was confused posting after the deadline. Other than that she talks a bit too much about Gwath, who was already on the way to the gallows by the time - which is odd. And if McCaber hasn't been Innocent, then her reasons for voting him are also invalid.


Sally’s death probably has the main goal to leave no track. I guess this is a good strategy in a giftless village. Nevertheless, it points towards careful wolves. Are they careful because it’s their nature, because they’ve been under strong suspicion already, or because it’s a cold-blooded strategy?
What I don't understand is: Why pick a no-trailer who causes confusion when other, less confusing, no-trailers are there to choose from. Maybe they thought her death would cause sufficient confusion, more than anybody else's death.

Both Boro voters are dead now. Does this point towards him being a wolf? I don’t think so. Sally went by gut when she voted him, so she would likely have changed her mind today. Boro was very sure about Sally’s innocence yesterDay and I’m not sure what to make of that.Probably. Sally's death points at loud Wolves too, because it puts more pressure on the remaining quiet players. I hope you know what I mean.
I have a feeling that Boro is bluffing a great big deal right now. Sally's death, among other things points also at Boro, but I wouln't put it past him to "frame himself".


If she had been killed instead of Sally we would have perhaps looked at her posts and found a clue.To me, this looks suspicious. Or at the very least, I don't agree. Like Rikae later says, little can be found from the posts of Nightly targets. Especially in a game like this, the Wolves are free to kill anybody they want without the fear of being blocked by a Ranger and have no need to seek for a Seer in our posts. And only a Seer's posts truly need to be gone through to give any valid information. Not that one shouldn't read to what the dead have said, you know, they might be right about the Wolves too.


I have the same fault as Boro admits himself having, it seems. I feel more and more certain that he's up to no good. His whole post #171 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=549036&postcount=171) screams Wolf. To me, Mith is like she always is. Otherwise his arguments are weak. Do you feel so "strongly" that you know I'm innocent?As pointed out Agan is not a viable option...but are you simply "guessing" sally went because of such and such...or do you know for a fact?Everybody says things like that! I would even venture to say that Wolves say them less that others, because they bring an air of suspicion.


What I mean is that he should not be underestimated because he wears a newbie-mask for a mask it is I must say: he was just superb in his first games. I'm not sure if this is enough to lynch him but if he's a submarine-wolf we can't but blame ourselves in the end. In the last two games people fell for it.I might be doing wrong in defending McCaber, but this kind of explanation doesn't look too valid to me. I feel like newbie myself, although this is already my 12th game if Lommy's Grimoire post is to be trusted. I say self-conscious things about not playing well enough myself - you might have noticed - and truly mean them. It looks stupid and useless, but I can't help it.
I can't say that I completely trust McCaber, either.


Well, there we go. My top two suspects were innocent -- don't listen to me.This makes me feel better about Rikae, although she really is such a crafty player that I shouldn't trust.


I've read through the the thread until Rikae's post I mention, I'll do the rest right now.

[Rikae]

Here I go, defending Mac again... :rolleyes:

Argh. Now I really am confused.

Originally Posted by Mac
"Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't."

I wonder why has no one paid any heed to this little quote? That sounds like he knows Cabbie is a wolf. I mean, WHAT?

It doesn't look like that at all! I don't know how you could see it that way -- it seems quite clear to me that Mac is referring to the (well known) fact that wolves would prefer, in general, not to draw attention to themselves by casting the deciding vote. Regardless of the role of the person lynched -- if McCaber and Lommy were wolves together, she wouldn't actually want him lynched on day one, but going after him might make her look better if he's lynched later on -- if he's innocent and she's a wolf, she wouldn't want to be responsible for lynching an ordo and come under scrutiny -- and thus, would probably prefer to vote for Cab but see Gwath lynched.

Makes perfect sense to me -- now, what do I make of Greenie's theory? It's either an honest misunderstanding or a wolfish attempt to get the suspicion moving in a direction more agreeable to her (which probably means, if Greenie's a wolf, at least one other wolf is attracting suspicion toDay.)

[Rikae]

OK, on further reflection, it may be slightly more likely it was a wolf-slip on Mac's part (along the lines of knowing Cab is innocent, I think), than what I said above... the reason being, if Mac meant what I said above, I think he might have explained more thoroughly. Maybe not, though. I have to go to class now, see you in a couple hours...

[A Little Green]

About the Mac thingy. Rikae and Lommy, well I hadn't really looked at it from that viewpoint at all. Might be, but if he really meant that I think he would have explained more if you know what I mean. So I'm still somewhat wary about Mac. However, up until he reappears and sheds some light on my little (green) conspiracy theory (sorry mates... couldn't resist :p), I might as well look at the other players as well. (I mean, others than Mac or Cabbie.)

Some thoughts on Volo first. He looks bad. His vote was plain weird, and when put to question about it he gives a very vague explanation. The thing that worries me more is that when he comes back after that one, there have been several notions on how insufficient his explanation was, but he ignores them completely in his post. A possible interpretation: He realised his explanation was... well... leaky when people didn't buy it, and had the reaction I think is characteristic for wolves (or... ummm... me as a wolf? :rolleyes:); "if I say nothing about it, people will forget it, and I'm off from under the radar for a while." But... wait... isn't Volo too experienced a player to do that? But I can't think of another reason for his behaviour. I'd think an ordo would just want to explain himself properly and go on with business.

I might as well make a list. So:

Green zone (innocentish):
Nerwen
THE Ka
Same goes for both - just some weird "good vibes" I suppose.

Yellowish green zone (leaning innocentish):
Rikae
Lommy
Mith
Boro

Yellow zone (slightly suspicious):
...
No people on the yellow zone? Curious. Last time it was the red one that was empty. Just wondering where this leads, maybe next time the green one is empty... :rolleyes:

Red zone (suspicious):
Volo
McCaber
Macalaure at least until he answers me.

No zone whatsoever (cannot say):
Durelin - just cannot read her at all.



EDIT: x-ed with Rikae

[Nogrod]

(early votes)
Sally -> Boro
Gwath -> Boro 2

(-46) Menel -> Mac (Boro 2, Mac 1)
(-27) Boro -> Gwath (Boro 2, Mac 1, Gwath 1)

(-9) Greenie -> Gwath (Boro 2, Gwath 2, Mac 1)

(-6) Rikae -> Gwath (Gwath 3, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-4) Mith -> Gwath (Gwath 4, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-3) McCaber -> Gwath (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-2) Dury -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 1)
(-2) Nogrod -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2)
(-2) Volo -> Ka (trying to retract to Gwath) (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2, The Ka 1)

(-1) Lommy -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

(00) Mac -> Gwath (Gwath 6, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

+ on overtime
The Ka -> McCaber

Did not vote: Nerwen


First notice: everyone who voted for Gwath was voting safe in a way that he had been suspected widely from quite early on the Day so anyone could just refer to that general suspiciousness of him.

Looking at the wagon I'd say Boro's starting vote was pretty safe as there had been a lot of discussion and suspicion on Gwath already at that point.

Greenie's vote doesn't look too good because she had first defended him lightly earlier into the Day but then turned around and only referred to suspicons others had made when she needed to vote.

Rikae agreed that he might be a bit too easy pick but still went for him stating that she sticks with her top suspect. What makes me uneasy about this is the logical and calculated feel I get from it. Innocents are unsure and insecure about their votes as it's bad for them if they get it wrong but the wolves can be cool and principled when they know everything is going their way...

Mith could already be quite sure Gwath was a goner - so was that the reason why she had to underline the "let's not lynch Boro" -thing so much as she actually had no specific reason to vote for Gwath but didn't want to look like someone who votes randomly at anyone who's not a fellow wolf? She even made that Boro remark one extra time after she had already voted...

McCaber I can see as voting to save himself... even if he denied that toDay which kind of makes me totally confused about him.

Mac's vote I don't get. The situation was over and everything was clear but still he says he would have rather voted for Lommy... So why did he vote for Gwath after saying himself he would like to give him at least one more Day?


It was such a nice wagon - seven people eg. about half of the Bombadil's house in the same wagon while many people said it wasn't looking like a good idea. Something fishy and a very good place for a wolf to hide in. The question remains who is it / are they? I need to give it a thought - and to finally turn towards toDay. :)

EDIT: X'd with a lot...

[Volo]

Volo, no, the format isn't confusing, but the reasoning behind it is, and your explanation is not an explanation at all, insofar as, assuming you decided to vote for Gwath before hitting "post", there was no reason whatsoever to leave the Ka vote in. No reason, that is, except to make a bigger case that your vote was reluctant...?

And threatening people to keep them from looking at your vote is not an innocent looking thing to do (and draws more attention to you, not less!)

Ha! It is clear that I wanted more effect than what the vote on its own could have given and don't deny it. I was feeling that we were going into a wrong direction (you might remember how catastrofic the last game I played in was).
I'm not threatening anybody, although neither do I deny that it might not look like it. Just since I know I'm Innocent (and so on), I know that the Wolves could be eager to use a flaw like my vote as an easy excuse to get me lynched. So whoever jumps too eagerly to the conclution that I'm a Wolf might very well be a Wolf him/herself. Probably a newbie Wolf, though.
Think of Lommy's game, when everybody jumped at you because you played provocatively, that's what I mean. I was a Cobbler and was eager to vote for you.

Actually Nerwen is a great example of what I mean!
She doesn't actually mention anything new and her actions are what I'd expect a rather unexperienced Wolf to do:
An analysis about the Nightly victim, doesn't reveal anything.
Post #193 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=549096&postcount=193), which doesn't actually tell much. All she says are quite general opinions, and she doesn't actually suspect anybody.
Then an easy vote for a possible (probable?) lynch candidate.
Played safely and smoothly.

(Oh dear, by now I've contradicted myself several times...)


Good point. Mac, thank you, but that isn't the strongest point to make in arguing for my innocence or no. If I was a wolf arguing last night that killing Sally would be beneficial to diverting attention or just general confusion, I would agree, but I have more inclination to hit more to the point and save my own skin and any suspicion around me so that my fellow wolves would not loose anymore than they need to (as a wolf, you have to be oh so selfish for the greater good of wolfy kind.). Sally's attack was a good one, but I prefer an observation, wait for someone else to make the first move, then strike somewhere that is more generally to my benefit method, but not too obvious (like going after someone that has been hounding at you all Day... generally they are loud enough for other players to remember what they said.) so that it labels me or fellow wolves in the game the next Day.Ka is mentioning her "observative method" already for more than the second time, I find it slightly suspicious.


Suspicious (more or less):
Nerwen
Boromir88
THE Ka

Innocent-ish:
Rikae
Mithalwen
McCaber

Can't figure, will have a look:
Nogrod
A Little Green

Nothing has caught my eye yet, will have a look:
Durelin
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
Thinlómien


EDIT: Xd with all since my preveous post.

[Volo]

Some thoughts on Volo first. He looks bad. His vote was plain weird, and when put to question about it he gives a very vague explanation. The thing that worries me more is that when he comes back after that one, there have been several notions on how insufficient his explanation was, but he ignores them completely in his post. A possible interpretation: He realised his explanation was... well... leaky when people didn't buy it, and had the reaction I think is characteristic for wolves (or... ummm... me as a wolf? ); "if I say nothing about it, people will forget it, and I'm off from under the radar for a while." But... wait... isn't Volo too experienced a player to do that? But I can't think of another reason for his behaviour. I'd think an ordo would just want to explain himself properly and go on with business.:( I don't think you're being fair.
WHAT do you want me to answer to?
I mean I don't have more reasons than I said I had.

I didn't feel comfortable about the voting, because I was afraid that we were concentrating on wrong people while letting too many fly over the radar.
I "voted" for Ka the way I did because I was completely sure that the vote for Gwath would count, and I wanted to emphasise that I feel wrong with the voting.
However I didn't have the gut to vote Ka or anybody else simply because I hadn't concentrated enough on them and wouldn't have the hope to lynch them anyway.
Gwath looked more suspicious than McCaber and I admit that I followed Boro's word.

As you might have noticed (by now) from my preveous post that I don't want people to forget my vote.

Ok, enough about that. I got quite frustrated, that's why the rant. I assure you that I have posted my reasons and not only now.

[Boromir88]

Here's my final input and my vote will be here then I will be gone...and most likely for good.

I'll be honest I'm completely lost on far as where to go. After Gwath was found to be innocent, and sally dies (the one person I said I felt most comfortable as far as her innocence), I definitely feel some set up. I think there is one, maybe two wolves trying to get me lynched (Rikae, Volo) and one, maybe two, who are defending me trying to get on my good side (Mith, Thinlo).

As far as the latter, Thinlo seems the more innocent and genuine than Mith. As Thinlo remarked, I know Mith quite well, but I got nothing else on her than saying I don't trust her support for me.

Now, Mac enters the equation, and for today I feel most comfortable about Lily who's eye regarding Mac's comment on McCaber went completely unnoticed by me and everyone else.

++Mac

I got nothing else, although I would caution to pay attention to Menel, he's slipped in once today (maybe twice) and I don't think he's been mentioned at all. It's really hard to build something against someone who doesn't (or maybe can't) post as much. But to let one slip through is completely dangerous. So, Menel, time to put some pressure on you...please share your thoughts? input?

[Macalaure]

Here's a quick defense. I'll be able to post more later.

To Lily, Lommy, and Rikae:

Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't.This argument works for both, McCaber's guilt and innocence. If both were guilty, then Lommy was either taking a risk that the waggon would have succeeded, or she reckoned that it wouldn't, but would look risky enough to make one look good if the other got killed. In the case of Caber's innocence, it was risky because Lommy would have given a deciding vote to an innocent, or smart because it would look like she did while she was sure that she didn't.
I'm not claiming this idea was thought through well. I was actually quite confused about her vote. Anyway, I overlooked the crosspost, so this is rather redundant in regards to her.

To Nogrod
Mac's vote I don't get. The situation was over and everything was clear but still he says he would have rather voted for Lommy... So why did he vote for Gwath after saying himself he would like to give him at least one more Day?I wasn't aware of the votes McCaber received, so I didn't knew there was this alternative. It didn't look like I could get any support for lynching Lommy, and among Gwath, Boro and... me!, Gwath looked at least most suspicious.

[A Little Green]

Now I know why my yellow zone was so empty. I had accidentally left out both Nog and Menel, who would probably belong there, both of them. So:

Yellow zone (slightly suspicious):
Menel
Nogrod - something just doesn't sit right with him..

Other than that, I have little to say. I'm still waiting for Mac to appear, to see in what kind of a manner he denies my theory. :D Of course we can't derive straight conclusions from his answer, but I hope it will be of help.

Sorry folks - I'm a bit obsessed right now with this affair. Can't help it. :p


EDIT: x-ed with Mac *ahem*

[McCaber]

I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.

Boro I'm split on. Sometimes he looks extremely suspicious, other times merely wise.

This argument works for both, McCaber's guilt and innocence.

I was about to bring that up myself. Thank you.

As I have class very soon, I will return with some actual thought.

[Thinlómien]

As far as the Boro seems innocent -thing goes, I think there was some confusion afoot. Let's take me for an example. ;) I knew the vote count, but I was slightly confused about how many people really suspected Boro or wanted to lynch him. And whatever you say, he was one of the lynch candidates and so I felt necessary to state the fact that I don't want to vote him. Now, I don't know, but I could see many people thinking the same way I did so *gasp* I don't see anything that suspicious about the "Boro is innocent"-case you and some others are so enthusiastically examining. I mean, you may go on and do some research on it but I doubt it will bear fruit. It's a bit similar as analysing sally's posts in order to find out why she was killed: it might be useful but more probably isn't.

Volo's odd. I mean, he looks so foul it hurts. Only a tiny bit of the things he says looks even a tiny bit innocent. In the last two posts, I think he made hardly any sense at all. It seems weird he has so little opinion on a bunch of very all-over-the-place people (me, Mac and Menel) who have been debated a lot. It is especially weird as he states that nothing in us has caught his attention yet. I mean... what? How can someone have avoided forming an opinion on the three of us?

Yet there is something very innocentishly sincere in his frustrated tone too... argh. This game is doing no good to my nerves. :D It is so annoying: first, I learned not to trust my wits in ww, lately I've learned not ot trust my gut feelings either and now I'm completely paranoid about everything all the time.

I'm still a bit confused on this Mac-thingie... I'll comment it when I've formed my opinion.

I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.Actually, I would like you to go on and do so. So please do it if you feel like it at all anymore, I'm sure it would be interesting.

[Durelin]

Hmm...Mac is still posting defenses of himself and Boro is convinced the wolves are setting him up, messing with his mind. Yes, both have gotten quite a bit of attention, but they seem to be harping on it a bit...but I don't know if that's particularly wolfish or not. Overly defensive? Maybe. Trying too much to look like they're shrugging it off? Maybe.

I don't know what Mith's doing but I don't think she's a wolf. She seems so very careless, as does McCaber. As does Volo. I guess I'm making the assumption that wolves are not overtly careless, and I guess really that could be a tactic as well.

Of course Mith's pulling a phantom-Sally. What I'm starting to feel like is that this is just going to turn into everyone promising they're not wolves and kissing and making up...

I am bothered by A Little Green because she seems so neat with her suspicions. She tries to be as focused as possible on one or two people to the point that to me it seems almost contrived.

On the other hand, I have similar bad feelings about Mac, and she brings up good points about him. Though I agree with Rikae that her interpretation of

"Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't."

was a bit off, as it can go either way - as Mac explains was his reasoning in his last post.

He is a little defensive, but not wanting to die isn't necessarily a sinister desire. And he's not he only one into himself.

Volo is confusing the heck out of me. I've never seen such long posts out of him!

Both Menel and McCab are barely here, and when they are, they seem rather in their own little worlds. I don't really know what to do with them.

Nerwen's no vote yesterDay hasn't been of any question... Her vote for Volo toDay seems rather safe, as does Menel's vote for McCab. Both of them don't seem to have much time for the game, which sucks for trying to get much on them. Bleh.

Lommy, Nogrod, Rikae...they all give me creepy feelings but I really have no clue. Though the beginning of Lommy's last post bothers me. She seems to be freaking a little. I understand frustration; I mean, I'm rather frustrated with the promises of innocence and the like (are you trying to appeal to people's compassion? cause you won't get that from me.. :p), but my dear, regardless of if Boro was in danger or not it still seems odd to be so afraid to lose him. In a gifteds game we could leave it to suspecting giftedness (but then being so open about that would be really...not smart), but obviously we can't do it. But I agree that a great amount of energy shouldn't be put into investigating the *everybody loves Boro* theory.

I do wonder though what Lommy meant by this earlier:

Ok Rikae is probably innocent, or then she is a wolf putting a lot of effort to seeming so.

Eh?

I am not talking about anyone else in this post because it is already way too long. *sigh* This WW thing has been good for one thing, anyway - avoiding homework doing...

[Durelin]

Ah, I just realized - my "similar bad feelings about Mac" statement means that I have similar bad feelings about Mac as A Little Green does, not about Little Green...make sense? Maybe? Oh well.

[THE Ka]

It's format isn't confusing, whoever makes a big deal about it might be trying to sidetrack the discussion.

Maybe they'd just would like a less strained explanation.

As you might have noticed (by now) from my preveous post that I don't want people to forget my vote.

It was kindof hard not to forget or understand, despite all of the explanation.
I can understand the logic behind that, making sure that people don't fly over your vote and completely spew out nonesense, but usually if you are going to do that you'd explain the second day, make a link to the vote, and then allow others to interpret. If your vote was left in a single vote stage, there wouldn't be anything there that was either highly suspicious or confusing, thus with your explanation the next day it would be rather hard for others to list you as suspicious immediately.

That is the only reason why your vote confused me at first, because if you were trying to retract a vote, it would make more sense to simply post your second vote without the trail of thought. Anyways, now that its cleared up, I am still a bit suspicious, but I can understand some of the logic behind making sure your vote was read clearly.
Albeit very, very confusing and abrupt.

I'm wanting to believe that Volo was flustered, but as for experience it is becoming harder to swallow.


but mentioning so that he/she hears it isn't very useful. I'd like more of your, Ka, thoughts on this.


Just like an experiment, I was trying to study the reaction. I know that if I say something, it obviously is out in the open and wolves probably won't do it. I wasn't as much interested in what Gwath would do, but what his fellow wolves would do. Talking about Gwath was purely a distraction and supposed to be banter.
Though, since Gwath was innocent, I am having to re-look at who I suspected before and reform any thought.


Unfortunately, I really have to go now, and would like to explain more but, I'll be late for my classes if I stay any longer. I should be back early enough to vote, though as of now I am horribly confused, hopefully thinking over all of this will clear my mind.


~ Ka

[Nogrod]

I need to make some late dinner but I just saw this as I got home and thought it needed commenting.
I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.
Actually, I would like you to go on and do so. So please do it if you feel like it at all anymore, I'm sure it would be interesting.Agreed! I mean everytime you post you promise to write something and then you don't. That way you stay under the radar as no one thinks it "nice" to lynch you as you have not said so much. Looking at your last performances I'm getting a growing sense that's the way you play intentionally - and with success.

So please McCaber at last do what you have promised all the time and talk - or convince me that that's only your tactics to make boots of us at Nights with not talking your mouth.

I'll be back a bit later.

[Thinlómien]

Of course Mith's pulling a phantom-Sally. What I'm starting to feel like is that this is just going to turn into everyone promising they're not wolves and kissing and making up...Good that you said that because it reminds me of what I wanted to say. I suspect Mith less ebcause she claimed so vocally that she's innocent. I mean, as a wolf, I would never do such a proclamation of innocence. I could say I'm innocent, but I would not make a show of it. It would feel so completely dishonest. Maybe I'm naive, but I instinctively assume other people be as honest/stupid as me...

Though the beginning of Lommy's last post bothers me. She seems to be freaking a little. I understand frustration; I mean, I'm rather frustrated with the promises of innocence and the like (are you trying to appeal to people's compassion? cause you won't get that from me.. ), but my dear, regardless of if Boro was in danger or not it still seems odd to be so afraid to lose him. In a gifteds game we could leave it to suspecting giftedness (but then being so open about that would be really...not smart), but obviously we can't do it. But I agree that a great amount of energy shouldn't be put into investigating the *everybody loves Boro* theory.Freaking a little? Frustrated? I hope not, because I actually did not feel frustrated, I was simply wondering. Or okay, I started to become gradually slightly frustrated when I wrote that. But "frustrated" is too strong a word, "mildly annoyed" would do better. I just don't understand why do people concentrate on it so much.

I do wonder though what Lommy meant by this earlier:Was that a sarcastic comment on my flip-floppiness or an actual question to me? :D

edit: xed with Noggless

[Rikae]

Mith looks a little better to me now. It would, at least, be very unsporting for her to make the statements she did if she were a wolf -- not that I'm certain she isn't, but I suppose I'll leave her alone for toDay anyway.

Both Boro and Nogrod suddenly find me suspicious after I suspect them... Boro, especially, seems odd with his statement there is a wolf or two among each of two groups of two people, followed by a vote for someone in neither group! Like yesterday, I'm getting the impression that he doesn't particularly care who gets lynched.
Nogrod, plain and simple and like I said, I didn't suspect anyone else as much and there was no support for lynching my other suspects anyway. I don't see the point in making a big show of reluctance (actually, I tend to distrust such shows.)
Speaking of shows of reluctance, though, I don't think Volo's was actually wolfish. I think it's actually the sort of wackiness that wolves are more likely to seize upon, trying to make an ordo into a lynch victim, than to actually engage in themselves. The fact that he admits it was a show of reluctance, plus the general relaxed feel he has, make him look more innocent.

At this point, my top suspects (in order of wolfyness) are:
Boro
Greenie
Nogrod
Durelin

EDIT: X'd with Durydurykanoggielommy

[Rikae]

Correction: I didn't actually have the impression Boro didn't care who was lynched yesterDay, but rather upon analyzing yesterDay's voting toDay.

[Macalaure]

As far as I'm concerned, the wolves play it very neatly so far. There's a couple of people that I find innocent-looking (Rikae, Lily and Volo, less so Ka and Nerwen, mostly because of Volo's points against them). Nogrod, Mith and McCaber are probably innocent, too, but I'm not sure yet. This leaves Durelin (who I have no idea about), Boro, Menel and Lommy. I find neither particularly suspicious, but one of them is propbably going to receive my vote, out of sheer lack of something better.

About Boro, I don't like the way he tried to make Mith look bad, the way he retaliated against Rikae and, of course, his sudden vote for me.

About Menel, I have nothing new (his vote and what Nogrod already said yesterday)

About Lommy I only have a strange feeling.

[Durelin]

Actually it was a question, Lommy. I'm not keen on attacking flip-flopping too much, because I'm just as confused. I just really wonder what you meant by that - how she's acting so blatantly wolfish she can't be a wolf, if that's what you meant?

[Nogrod]

Both Boro and Nogrod suddenly find me suspicious after I suspect them...

Nogrod, plain and simple and like I said, I didn't suspect anyone else as much and there was no support for lynching my other suspects anyway. I don't see the point in making a big show of reluctance (actually, I tend to distrust such shows.)
I didn't say I found you suspicious - or at least extremely suspicious... :)

What I did was going through that Gwathwagon to look for anything that could be seen as suspicious and you must agree yourself that when the lynch is going nicely the wolves can posture as principled standing behind their voiced suspicions but the innocents are always a bit nervous about their votes if there isn't a seer-revelation or something like that.

You were one of the many who acted in a way that could be seen also as wolvish and not all of you could be wolves.

What innocents need to do is to think, think and think - and to get food for that thought they need to suspect, suspect and suspect. The gifteds may need to stay a bit lower but now it should be clear that it's the duty of everyone of us to be vocal about anything we see that is even bordering suspicious - and to voice these things so that we can get reactions to them.

[Thinlómien]

Actually it was a question, Lommy. I'm not keen on attacking flip-flopping too much, because I'm just as confused. I just really wonder what you meant by that - how she's acting so blatantly wolfish she can't be a wolf, if that's what you meant?I actually took it as a serious question but when Greenie appeared behind my shoulder, saw your post and said "quite evil" of that, it occured to me it might be a sarcastic joke as well. But no, I didn't mean that. I simply meant all her innocent-looking reasonableness and helpfulness (mainly the floods of analysis). When I'm a wolf, I'm reluctant to write long analyses because it feels pointless and it always takes a lot of time and effort. It is probably a very stupid tactic and I don't claim Rikae would play similarily, but there is still something very unwolfy in her helpfulness.

Currently I feel like my head could explode. I'm quite sure there is at least one wolf among the experienced village loudmouths - Nogrod, Boro, Mac and Rikae - and they all keep bringing up good points that contradict each other and seeming innocent at one moment and suspicious at the next. Truth be told it's quite frustrating. I think I need to have a pause and think about things wthout taking anything they say into account, but it's quite difficult as one of the things I want to think about is what they're actually saying. I don't know, I just have a bad feeling that four gifted rehtorics (rhetoriciens? what?) are trying to talk me over to their side and not all of them are innocent. Argh.

edit: xed with Nogrod and just realised my word formation looks suspiciously French... that's what you get from French-lessons, I guess...

[Nogrod]

The tally:

Menel -> McCaber
Nerwen -> Volo
Boro -> Mac

And 45 minutes to go.

I'll come forwards with what I think after I've had a cigarette and hopefully collected my thoughts.

[Volo]

I'll add Lily to the Innocent-list, for now. Either she has greatly improved as a Wolf, or she really is Innocent. Her cases look honest.
Ok, not all things make sense to me, but she reacts in a genuine way.

I'd like Lommy to make way for her sister to update her Mac-case.


I'm quite inclined to vote for Nerwen, but I'll do such a nasty deed as to see if there's any sense to vote for her. Otherwise, my targets are Boro and Ka - Ka slightly more. I'm falling for Boro's frustration, it looks a bit like SPM's in the first game I modded. But I won't vote in a such way that Boro is left alive, in a case that neither [b]Ka[b] nor Nerwen is on the way to be lynched.


I'll check Nogrod next.

[Durelin]

Thanks, Lommy...I understand now and am glad I asked because obviously I wasn't reading it that way. And I'm sorry A Little Green already thinks I'm so nasty. ;)

Blarghity...I need to get working on homework...

++Macalaure

Of the random voters for Gwathagor he worries me the most. Of course I don't feel good voting for the same person as Boro, but I can't say I trust any of you sneaky lot, so what's the use spending another 40ish minutes on this...

Edit: Crossed with Volo

[Thinlómien]

What? Only 35 minutes to go?! And I thought we had ages and I have no clue who to vote... *faints*

edit: xed with Durey

[Thinlómien]

I'd like Lommy to make way for her sister to update her Mac-case.Now tsk tsk, it is her own choice that she has not been around for a while and she left to buy cookie ingredients a moment ago... I hope she realises how late it is...

[Rikae]

I think I'm decided enough at this point, so:

++Boro

Smooth on the surface, but the overall pattern of his behavior looks like there's a nasty undercurrent. Look over his posts, and think about the intention behind them.

[McCaber]

Apparently I have half an hour for final thoughts.

Right now I'm kind of torn between Mac and Volo. I don't like Volo for his contradictions and general tone, and Mac just worries me.

[Thinlómien]

I feel like using a certain German swear word. Agh. This is just too confusing. Ok, of the loudmouths I complained about Nogrod and Mac seem more innocent, Rikae and Boro seem more guilty. I'm perfectly aware this is quite opposite to many things I've said before, but there is something overall innocently laid-back in Nogrod's manner and innocentish uncertainity in Mac's while Rikae and Boro look a tad too confident. Now I'm not actually suspecting them very much and I refuse to vote them before I've had a closer look at them - and I will do that toMorrow, if I'm still alive.

Who to vote then? I'd be inclined to go against Volo, Menel or McCaber... The latter two are quite suspicious and I confess I'd like to get rid of them so that I needn't to wonder about them any more. The totally baffling Volo is another case; he feels both far more guilty and a little more innocent than the two others. Ouch.

Now Greenie came home. She'll come to post now.

edit: xed with Rik and Cab

[Mithalwen]

Rikae I may avoid telling the truth but I don't tell any blatant lies other than the compulsory "What a beautiful baby" one.

And Boro my posts are not nonsensical because you don't understand them :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

If we lynch Mac and he's innocent, don't let Greenie slip out of the spotlight toMorrow. In fact, whoever we lynch, I want to make sure to get this across in case I'm not around toMorrow:
Her way of casting suspicion on Mac was very questionable, I think, and she's been going with the flow throughout the game. Her voting yesterday looks deliberately safe, like Boro's.

EDIT: Added bolding, and also wanted to add:
the way she manages to escape notice should be a warning sign. She is keeping out of the spotlight.

[Macalaure]

What I don't like about voting Boro, is his edginess. The Borowolves I remember all "looked fairer". His actions today look quite bad, but I feel like buying his frustration. I actually happen to share it.

[Nogrod]

Here's the list of characters...

Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars

his wife, Nerwen - I never seem to be able to suspect her but after Volo's point about her over-carefulness I'd say she needs to be looked at.

Gwathagor, their child - R.I.P. dear son.

elderly couple; Rikae the Kind - a bit touchy when suspected even a little but otherwise looks good and sensible.

and Durelin - no idea.

Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket - looks more like an innocent.

his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene - I'm really torn between her guilt and innocence, sometimes more the first, sometimes more the latter. Lommy said a wolf wouldn't go to such extremes defending her innocence - but remember Rikae last time...

their children Macalaure the Guileless - feels better all the time but I must say I'm a bit uneasy with him as I know what he's capable of.

and Meneltarmacil - screams wolf but then it's Menel who more often than not ends up lynched as an innocent. That said one of my candidates still.

satansaloser2005, a slightly mad crippled woman - dead duckmaster...

Volo, a young widowed man - I'm not too easy with him as I've pointed out already but doesn't top my list either.

his child, the Right Honourable McCaber - if he doesn't show up I'm quite ready to lynch a timebomb that doesn't look too innocent.

THE Ka, a blind old woman - no idea.

orphaned little Thinlómien - felt very innocent yersterDay and mainly toDay as well.

and her little sister A Little Green - I'm a bit worried about with her conscise low-flying and if I can borrow the hip-phrase around here toDay: there's something that bothers me with her even if I can't quite say what.

EDIT: X'd after Lommy onwards

[Mithalwen]

Gah ....

++Rikae

becasue she is doing the "I'm too super helpful and analytical to be a wolf" thing- and I have no more time....

[McCaber]

++Volo

He's been freakin' me out for a while, and I think he's the most suspicious right now.

EDIT: crossed with Nogrod and Mith

[Macalaure]

Menel -> Caber
Nerwen -> Volo
Boro -> Mac
Durelin -> Mac (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1)
Rikae -> Boro (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1, Boro 1)
Mith -> Rikae (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1, Boro 1, Rikae 1)
Caber -> Volo (Mac 2, Volo 2, Caber 1, Boro 1, Rikae 1)

I don't like the way this is going...

[Rikae]

Gah ....

++Rikae

becasue she is doing the "I'm too super helpful and analytical to be a wolf" thing- and I have no more time....

Only according to Lommy, mind you. I would actually be just as helpful and analytical as a wolf -- that's where the fun is! ;)

[A Little Green]

I'm back with my vote.

++ Mac

And if you start accusing me of joining a bandwaggon then I suggest you go and reread my posts from toDay. (Sorry - just had to say that.)

No further babblings then.


EDIT: x-ed with everyone since Lommie

[Nogrod]

Menel -> McCaber
Nerwen -> Volo
Boro -> Mac
Dury -> Mac 2
Rikae -> Boro
Mith -> Rikae
McCaber -> Volo 2
Greenie -> Mac 3

Sorry aboput the shorthand tally...

This is getting crazy with all the candidates!

EDIT: update

[Macalaure]

*takes A Little Green off his list of innocents*

[Rikae]

Indeed.
I rather wish I'd voted for Greenie...

[Volo]

I really don't know what to, which means that I'm waiting.

I don't want to get lynched, but neither do I want to vote Mac.
Voting Boro might be too dangerous at this point, because he's quite clearly not going to be lynched.
McCaber? That's one alternative...

[Nogrod]

I could go for McCaber as he hasn't come back to his words another Day in a row and has just stood back and watched.

Greenie's vote doesn't look too good to me either.

I could see Menel but I'm afraid it would go wrong in the end.

Volo I'm a bit baffled about...

EDIT: X'd from Mac...

[Macalaure]

What really makes me feel bad about those who are voting me, is that not one of them has a good reason behind it.

[Rikae]

I take what I said back.
The above statement by Mac is wolfish.

[Nogrod]

Let's not lynch Mac.

He can be very helpful indeed and if he's a wolf the Day will come when he is caught acting contradictory or talking himself into a corner...

EDIT: X'd with Mac & Rikae & kind of agree with Rikae... though my point stands... even heightened...

[Volo]

What really makes me feel bad about those who are voting me, is that not one of them has a good reason behind it.
That's what the Innocents always think.

Noggie, I doubt you have a chance in lynching Menel.
It's either me, Mac or Cabbie.

[Macalaure]

I feel better about McCaber than I feel about Boro, but an innocent Boro would be a graver loss than an innocent McCaber (no offense :)).