Werewolf XLVIII: When Virtual Becomes Reality [Archive] - Page 3

Aganzir

07-13-2008, 07:41 AM

I think Kitanna could be a wolf.

Her first post looks forced. I don't know... I guess I first seized on it because it reminds me so much of how a wolfish me could post on day 1.

ppl who do lots of loNg posts sayng nUthing & then maek liSts taht dont maek sence r up 2 sumthing IMHO.
Sometimes in the nothing the most is said.
I fail to see what you are referring to. Your response to Nerwen meets the criteria of communicating a little with a fellow wolf so as not to look like team members.

On day 1 she thought the A/N/F brawl brought up by Nerwen was moderately suspicious, but at the same time she found Nerwen herself moderately suspicious, too. She was inclined to think there was one or two hackers among us three (me, Nilp and Form, that is), and I really fail to see why. If we have talked to one another on day 1, why on earth does it make us hackers? She was suspicious also of EW who was quick to jump to his own defense, and Sixth, based on gut feeling, who advocated voting for Nerwen, probably IC.
Then she voted for Nerwen because she posted often but sayid little. In her defense I must say, though, that her vote post didn't look like she was trying to discourage others to vote for Nerwen, although she wasn't trying to encourage voting for her either.

I don't really know why a hacker would vote a fellow hacker as early as on day 1. Of course it would be a good plan since few would believe they actually did it, but it's risky as well. And Kitanna has been pretty suspicious even before the new wolf was turned (actually she's been less suspicious after that).
Except... On day 2 she asks Shasta (who was talking about Kath) if he thinks there would be wolf-on-wolf votes so early. The improbability of wolf-on-wolves on day 1 should make Kitanna look more innocent if/when Nerwen was to be revealed a wolf.

Yesterday Nerwen looked like an easy target for the wolves, today I'm not so sure. She's still posting frequently, but the posts are all empty.
A worrying truth indeed. Nerwen's posts are one liners, ICs, with an occasional post that clarifies or half-heatedly accuses.
Would a wolf continue suspecting her, especially as there are others who do it also?

Most suspicious
Eonwe- Voted not long after Eomer for Mith based on her vote for Sally who was the first to vote for Sixth
Boro- Next vote for Sixth
Elf-warrior- Third vote for Sixth
Agan-Tied Eonwe and Sixth, though a tie doesn't result in a double-lynch a tie remains a tie. If nothing else it confuses and muddles things especially close to deadline.
This is based purely on when and how they voted for, not their reasoning behind it.

Agan & Eonwe's look the most suspicious to me based on timing. Though I'm going to read through their posts before deciding fully how I feel about either.
Then there's this, the most suspicious of the "bandwagoners". Next vote for someone? Third vote for someone? Ties someone? Ties are confusing? What on earth is suspicious about that? Honestly, I can't see that as innocent reasoning.
I think it was Nog who had a good point that that's an easy way to add pressure on those who are suspected a little already (Eönwë and me, mainly).
Eönwë is suspicious because his vote is so neat and tidy, comes out of the blue and right after Eomer's vote. And votes for Mith, mind you.
I am suspicious because I accused Sixth of joking suspicions (which, as I already explained, weren't apparently such), I seemed to have a case on Nerwen rather than Sixth, if Sixth was a wof he would (in Kit's opinion) have returned instead of disappearing, and I base my case on Sixth's only post (what did other Sixth-voters base their cases on, then?).

On day 2 she votes for me, despite feeling more confident in mischief on Nerwen's part than when voting for her the previous day, but not feeling confident enough. My suspicions (against Sixth) feel wrong and don't make sense. Or was it just because I was going after Nerwen that day myself?

I have no idea about Shasta anymore - good points were brought up about his yesterday behaviour, so I will treat Shasta as a possible wolf now in relation to Kit.

On day 3 Kitanna comments on Eomer/Shasta row, saying neither of them smells like a rose, but she finds Eomer slightly stranger-looking and explains it "Simply because of my, as he called it, colorful WW past with him."
Later she wonders if Shasta and Eomer could have staged their row. Maybe, and if not, Eomer looks worse to her. Because of their colourful past, and his behaviour raises her eyebrow. Now, if Shasta was turned on night 3, this makes Kitanna look worse. She tries not to defend Shasta, but doesn't really accuse Eomer either - it's rather that she adds her vote for the case "look at Eomer before you look at Shasta".
She's also inclined to vote for Eönwë, who's "up to no good", and later votes for him. Eönwë went after Mith.

With the number of times Durelin was suspicious of Nogrod "just because", I have to wonder if she didn't dream him and find that he was a wolf.
I'd like to look at Durelin's posts myself to see what I can draw from this theory.
This worries me. That myself. "I want to go through Durelin's posts and see that nothing that incriminates my fellows too much is revealed!"

If she did dream of Nogrod as a hacker it would make sense why she never voted or cast "damning" evidence onto him. That would have ended her life sooner or drawn her out so she had to reveal her role before she was ready.
I'm pretty sure Nog isn't a hacker now... And Kit just explains how it's possible that Dur found Nog a hacker although she didn't cast "damning" evidence onto him.

She is inclined to believe, though, that Durelin dreamed or was planning to dream of Mithwolf, which caused her death. But if the wolves thought it likely that the seer had dreamed of one of them, and especially if that one was Mith, they could well have decided to sacrifice her in order for others to look better.
Or then she wanted to go through Durelin's posts herself so as to be among the first to suspect that she dreamt of Mithwolf, and therefore look better.

Kit votes for Mith. In response to Eomer's wondering why he wasn't killed she says it points at Shasta being a wolf. But, in my opinion, it can also point at wolves being afraid of Eomer and wanting to frame Shasta.

**

I won't have time to go through Form's posts, at least not to this extent, today. I'll have to leave in less than an hour and won't probably have a chance to come back.

Anyway, right now Kitanna is my top suspect. Though I have been so wrong about everyone that I don't really know how much I should trust my judgement anymore.

Next I'm planning to go back to day 1 and see if I could find at least some innocents and hopefully also a wolf given their interaction with Nerwen and Mith. I dare a guess that Mith was a wolf from the beginning.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 07:45 AM

Well, well... If Boro is still alive after a Day or two I say you people should lynch him... Just an idea...~Nogrod
I hate when people say this, because it's just an easy way to set someone up if they're still alive. It's like saying "If Boro isn't dead by Night 6 he's a wolf, because the wolves wouldn't leave an innocent Boro alive for that long." Very clever way of setting someone up, and coming from you Nogrod?

I want to look at the last couple days of posts between Nogrod and Mith. Nogrod is not shy of lynching a fellow wolf if he thinks it will benefit him, and Mith isn't shy of sacrficing herself if she thinks she's dead meat.

I highly suspect a wolf in the Formendacil bandwagon.

Rikae
Sally
Agan
Shasta

It's interesting that sally voted for to make it a 3-way tie between Mith, Shasta, and Form. What does this say about Form and Shasta? Form said he feels ashamed by using the cobbler to argue his own innocence, but this could reveal something. I would say without question sally believed Mith was a wolf, and why she's saved Mith (or tried to) in her voting. But did she also think Shasta was a wolf too? If she's trying to save Mith and thinks Shasta is innocent wouldn't she vote Shasta? Maybe she thought both were wolves and she was trying to save both? Or maybe being the cobbler she just wanted to have a 3-way tie to mess things up even more.

I also think that if one wolf is trying to save their buddy, then the last wolf is trying to be the one who survives and tries votes for Mith, trying to look innocent. This would point to Kitanna, Eonwe, Nogrod, and Form.

edit: crossed with Agan

Aganzir

07-13-2008, 08:22 AM

Anyway can't decide about Kitanna & Nerwen and Form .. but Sally's vote just seems a bit too parasitic... at least Kitanna and Form stuck their heads above the parapet.
I don't know if this means she couldn't decide which one of them to vote or that she couldn't decide what to think of them. But if she was planning to vote for one of them, I think the wolves could have had a plan that they would accuse one another on day 1, and therefore also Kitanna's vote for Nerwen doesn't necessarily speak for her innocence.

Eönwë suspected Nerwen to some extent for not doing anything useful and voted for Mith: Because of the way she posts, as if she's hiding behind hersef being IC but not at the same time. Hard to explain what I mean. Also, her attitude seems slightrly suspicious

Eomer and Nog kept going after Mith for long. Although Nogwolf is capable of killing his fellows, I'm not sure if he would have started it already on day 1.

In fact, Eomer's been suspicious of Mith since before her vote (#64). Hmm...
Why that hmm? What were you thinking?

Like Eomer said already, Shasta found both Nerwen and Mith innocent.

Ok, I don't have time to do more but I post what little I have managed to gather by now. It would be lovely if someone else could check the rest.

Sorry to be of little use today but RL calls.

++ Kitanna

If you decide to lynch me, I hope you will at least consider her later.

Oh and I forgot to comment on this in my previous post.

Mind you, I hardly expect to get away scot-free today
Why? I think the fact that you were tried to lynch instead of Mith should make you look more innocent and us who voted for you suspicious? Or is it just that a wolf always thinks he's suspected more than he really is?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 08:30 AM

I'm not sure both Shasta and Aganzir would have voted Formendacil at the end (were they both wolves). I'm thinking only one is. Actually, that's a good spot Agan; I remember Shasta defending Mith there. I must say, though, that your case against Kitanna does not convince me. It seems a bit too ... constructed, if you like.

Rikae

07-13-2008, 09:23 AM

I'm leaning toward thinking Aganzir more wolfish than Shasta. Looking at Shasta yesterDay already made me more inclined to forgive his odd behavior, but Aganzir's vote really seems to have come out of nowhere. Her behavior toDay seems very much like a typical wolf who is under some pressure - her case aganst Kitanna seems rather forced (especially the "myself" bit) and the make a case, vote, and leave pattern is a tactic I've used myself as a cornered wolf - throwing something out there for the village to chew on (she even encourages us to look into it more) and then dropping out of sight and, hopefully, out of mind.
Also, the way she deals with Shasta toDay is so ambiguous, it really has me thinking even more they may be wolves together. She could simply go after him as an easy way to get herself out of danger, and might even do so as a wolf, but it looks as though she's trying to protect her last packmate by drawing suspicion elsewhere, while making wishy-washy statements about him to cover herself, should he be lynched.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 09:58 AM

I'm just a bit concerned about you Boro... You seem to be the only one around who has not been suspected the whole game and you live still. Also I'm pretty much positive you would love to pay me back the one game I managed to fool you nicely and I'm in no way wishing it to take place in this game... :)

But the actual reason that made me say it aloud yesterDay was your amazing turn-around vote for Shasta - and the reason given ("I don't think I would be able to take another day of Shasta and Eomer battling.") just felt bad. I understand you were at least partially joking there but somehow the fact you made that kind of joke there worries me as much. You had talked of lynching Mith all Day and come forwards with reasons for it and then in the tight spot you try to get her off the hook...

Also, were you an innocent I'd think you would have commented the situation unfolding after your vote - and the ill consequences it had of making it possible neither Mith or Shasta would be lynched - but you stayed away. I somehow feel bad about that too.

But don't you worry. I think I may have even better candidates toDay and I'd need to really look at your posting and actions before getting confident in anything like a case on you.

As I tend to agree with Rikae on Agan's case on Kitanna being more a forced reaction of a wolf than a genuine trial of finding one I'd be willing to look at her more closely - and Shasta once more - toDay. Her grin in the end of yesterDay just gives me creeps.

And yes, Boro has been a staunch defender of Aganzir... hmm...

Kitanna

07-13-2008, 10:06 AM

This, unfortunately, is my only post today (work destroys all :rolleyes: )
And because of that I was limited to looking at the end of yesterday and today's posts.

Highly Suspicious - Shasta
He tied Form and Mith. If he was looking to be self-preserving it would have been easier to vote Mith ahead than create another tie. When he voted Mith, was at four votes and Form and himself were at three each. That seems like cobbler behavior, but since the cobbler is now dead and gone...
He also tries to make a case against Nogrod on the grounds of indecision.
Pretty simply, it seemed to be that both you and Form were extremely indecisive on who to vote for, saying "well, that person seems suspicious, but then so does that person, but I'm not saying that person's innocent either..." but then suddenly Form has two votes and is in danger of being lynched; immediately both you and Form vote for Mith.
Form's vote was pretty self-preserving and Nogrod had long suspected Mith of wolvery. I don't see Shasta having much of a case here.

Moderately Suspicious - Agan
I have suspected Agan of being the cobbler, but even though the cobbler is dead I still hold onto some suspicion. I don't think Shasta and Agan are both wolves that participated in the Form bandwagon. If one is innocent, then I believe the other is guilty.

Not Very Suspicious - Nogrod, Eonwe
I have a nagging feeling about Nogrod. He looks more innocent to me, but I'm not one to ignore gut feelings because they've been right from time to time.
For Eonwe I'm still holding some suspicions I've had for a while. They've only lessened because I have other people to worry about.

Not Suspicious - Eomer, Form
Since the cobbler is dead I have no reason to doubt his claim as Hunter.
I have never really suspected Form, but the bandwagon against him seemed like an attempt to ease pressure off a wolf onto an innocent. Rikae's vote was no surprise. I'm unsure what to think about Agan's. But Shasta's didn't seem right to me.

Unsure - Boro, Rikae
I haven't been able to form a solid opinion of either since the game started.

++ Shasta

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 12:51 PM

And here I thought I'd have reams to catch up on..:rolleyes:

Well, I'm both flattered and a little surprised, Rikae, that you've apparently decided to drop the "Form is a wolf" thought for the moment, although given the low postage today, that might just be a case of "have not yet mentioned", since you were clearly responding to the general trend of "Shasta and Again: which is a wolf thought?"

Myself, I'm very much inclined to think Shasta lupine, and while it may be personal grudge getting in the way of more reasoned thinking, at this point I do not foresee voting for anyone else--barring perhaps another out-of-the-blue bandwaggon against me.

I agree that if Shasta is a wolf, then Aganzir very probably isn't... although she's certainly looking suspicious in the interim. If, perhaps, Shasta isn't the wolf, then Agan certainly bears further innocence, but in the meantime, I'll take my continued instinct that, despite her malevolence, Agan is innocent as a confirmation that Shasta probably is.

Back later, towards the deadline...

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 01:13 PM

Highly Suspicious - Shasta
He tied Form and Mith. If he was looking to be self-preserving it would have been easier to vote Mith ahead than create another tie. When he voted Mith, was at four votes and Form and himself were at three each.That's a good point indeed - and it lead mo to re-read once again that stuff in the end of the previous Day.

The last three voters must all have been aware of Sallycobbler's vote after which the situation was: Mith2, Shasta2, Form2 - all even.

Okay then myself and Form voted at the same minute on 10.56.

I already told I was about to do that in any case and that I didn't like the way the voting was heading and decided to act. Form I think had at least self-preservation issues behind his vote and looking back at the Day it looked quite self-evident Mith would be the one to be lynched. If I remember it correctly he had also thought of voting Shasta (or me). Now were Form a fellow-wolf of Mith, voting Shasta would have been a decent idea he could have defended if needed. So I think it less likely Form is a wolf because of his vote there. Not impossible though.

After the two votes for Mith at 10.56 the situation was: Mith4, Shasta2, Form2

Then we get to the interesting part.

The next one to vote is Boro.

10.57 Boro – Shasta (Mith4, Shasta3, Form2)

Now the first question is, whether he had seen my vote and Form's vote eg. was he up to the situation where Mith was in the lead with four votes or whether he still thought it was a threeway tie? He writes that someone has to break the tie when he votes; also his post came at the next minute from the two earlier ones so it looks quite believable he really thought he was the first to break the tie.

This leaves me yet the questions I've already raised A) why Shasta and not Mith & B) why no reaction after the presumed "breaking of the tie" ended up messing the situation?

The second last is Aganzir (on the same minute with Boro but there were a few posts in bewtween them and as her votepost is such a short one I'd bet she was knowledgeable at least of Mith's lead if not also Boro's vote on Shasta.)

10.57 Aganzir – Form (Mith4, Shasta3, Form3)

Let me walk you through her last posts leading to that vote and then make a few comments...

9.22 I think lynching Mith would give us the most insight today.

9.44 It's funny that yesterday Mith looked much more suspicious than Nogrod and today it's vice versa.

10.30 Actually, I thought it was likely that either Mith or Nogrod was a wolf, and Mith looked more wolfish. Though today Nogrod has been much more suspicious ...
Somehow I'm not so sure anymore if I want to vote for Mith. Kitanna and Nogrod feel worse, and to an extent also Form.

10.42 I could vote for Nogrod too.
I'll eat my hat with feathers and all if neither Mith nor Nog is a wolf, and today I'd prefer trying Nog.

10.49 Starting to sound a bit desperate, are you, Nog? Either you or Mith is a wolf, yesterday I thought Mith, today you.

Two tallies between 10.49 - 10.55...

10.56 I think our chances with Form are better than with Mith.

10.57 Votes Form: I've grown so suspicious of him in these last few minutes.

10.58 Even if Mith dies, it's going to reveal a lot about Nog.

10.59 *just waiting for someone to vote for Shasta so three people are tied :D*

Now a few things.

- Up to ten minutes before the deadline she repeats her point that either me or Mith is a wolf. When it came obvious that she couldn't get me lynched (a nice try though) she also abandoned the idea of lynching Mith.

- Her constant tallying (and toying around with phantomness to explain it) is interesting as well. At least it shows she was extremely keen on being up to date. It might speak of a situation where things were not going nice from her angle as I don't remember she is normally like that...

- Her point that we'd have better chances with lynching Form than Mith is has two things I keep wondering. First of all how about Shasta as a chance? Her not even mentioning him speaks on behalf of the theory they're together the last wolves. By remaining silent about Shasta whom people had talked a lot the last few hours speak for that. Secondly, and referring at my first point, it is interesting that the other one of her "either X or Y is a wolf" isn't that good a chance anymore even if Mith hadn't posted a single post between the ones I've quoted up there... but she'd rather vote for someone she had "picked" just in the last minutes.

- That last big grin is just pure evil - something I'd believe coming from evil Aganzir... and the need to kind of lighten it up in the post-DL answer.

And last but not least Shasta

10.58 Shasta – Form (Mith4, Shasta3, Form4)

First of all I'm inclined to believe he knew the voting-situation as he managed to post once already after Agan's vote for Form. If he didn't, his vote becomes even less comprehensible...

So when he voted the situation was Mith 4 votes and himself and Form on 3. But even more interesting I think is the question of whether he was fully aware that there was still The Ka to vote, or did he think he was the last to vote?

In the first case (he was aware The Ka hadn't voted) his vote looks quite odd for an innocent as well as a wolf would have gladly voted for Mith to secure their own heads as the Ka could have voted for him bringing him to the shared top-position. Unless he weighed the risks and thought it such unlikely that The Ka would turn out that he decided to risk it for a reason or another: for an altruistic reason of getting not the "obvious wolf" lynched but the might be wolf... :p) or then in effort to save his mate Mith.

In the second case that calculation-possibility sounds much more probable to me. If he hadn't no fear there was someone coming to vote after him he could go his way (look above for the options).

Summa summarum: Looking yet another time at the last minute voting has made me feel a bit better about Boro and a lot more suspicious of both Agan and Shasta.

Eönwë

07-13-2008, 01:42 PM

Hmmm....
I'm inclined to agree with Nogrod about Shasta. It seems highly suspicious to me. He is only one vote behind top-spot, yet he cooses to keep his position there, instead of furthering (is that a word?) himself away from being lynched. Looks like he was trying to save Mith. If I hadn't known who the cobbler was, I would definitely say him. But he was definately trying to stir things up a bit.

Nogrod seems to be making a lot of sense lately, but maybe that just means he's a wolf trying to look good... We'll just have to wait and see.

edit: Did not x-post with anyone. Slow, quiet Day- we're still on the same page as yesterDay.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 02:01 PM

and the ill consequences it had of making it possible neither Mith or Shasta would be lynched - but you stayed away.~Nogrod
The only thing I was thinking at that time was how could everyone be that stupid? How could that Form bandwagon start so easy? It was interesting to see once Rikae came and was wondering why it was assumed Shasta and Mith were the only "candidates" that others were quick to latch on and then tack on votes for Form. Granted that situation wouldn't have happened if I had gone through with a vote for Mith, but I thought Shasta was more likely a wolf, and Mith's gibbering yesterday (and overall diversionary jabber throughout her time here) was spammish. Now that sally is the spammer though, I still think Shasta is the wolf and Agan is innocent. If Mith knows she's dead meat she'll take the noose to give her buddies a chance at getting away.

The mistake that I made yesterday is when I was looking through everything I kept coming to the conclusion on several people, well this would really depend upon what Mith's identity is? Knowing Mith's identity would reveal more, and thinking Mith was guilty in some way, I should have gone with her eventhough I thought she was the spammer and we'd get a wolf with Shasta.

As far as Agan today, I don't see at this point why a wolf would cast a vote for Kitanna. And now that Agan can't be around for the rest of the day, I'm afraid the remaining wolves will go after her as it would be easier to get us to vote for her. I don't know if Agan's case against Kitanna is forced, she certainly has me mulling it over. Because I have felt Kitanna's voting has been pretty safe.

Maybe it just looks that way because Kit isn't around for the deadline and she usually has to vote early, but even though she is still pretty active, her votes just look like she's trying to stay out of trouble. I know I said if she was correct about Mith, I would probably trust her for the rest of the game. But that was also because of her thoughts about a wolf Mith and a wolf Nogrod, and now she backs away from Nogrod.

I don't see any reason why I should vote for Kitanna today. After Mith being a wolf she looks pretty innocent, but I will say if one wolf did vote for Mith, to look more innocent, I would imagine it would be Kitanna's vote or Nogrod's. Kit's because it is the first one and if Mith is the one lynched she looks innocent. But it is also a safe one because it removes her out of a tough decision at the end to either send her partner to the noose or vote for someone else and keep her partner alive for at least another day. And Nogrod's looks suspicious because he has made that bold decision to send his partner to the noose before.

edit: crossed with Eonwe

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 02:17 PM

Sigh. For my first game as a Gifted, this really isn't going very well. I don't think I have much choice other than to reveal, since everyone's so focused on me. :(

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Sigh. For my first game as a Gifted, this really isn't going very well. I don't think I have much choice other than to reveal, since everyone's so focused on me. :(Uh-oh... that changes things I'd say. If none calls your revealment a bluff.

But now that you have come into the open you might tell us whom you did protect the first Night if the wolves (hopefully only a wolf) kills you the next Night... We'd do with one more innocent on our list even if it meant s/he would die the next Night.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 02:28 PM

You actually had it right, Nog. I protected Kath, hence the wolves attacking her again Night 2 when I was busy elsewhere.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 02:32 PM

Why didn't you reveal yesterday, Shasta? You looked in a lot of trouble then too.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 02:34 PM

Why didn't you reveal yesterday, Shasta? You looked in a lot of trouble then too.

Yesterday there was still Mith (and to a lesser extent, Form) to focus on. The plan was to keep my vote till the end and if I still couldn't save myself, THEN reveal. Luckily though people decided to vote for Mith instead. Today though I'm pretty much by myself as a lynch target.

The idea was to get enough suspicion that the wolves wouldn't kill me, but not enough to be lynched. :rolleyes: It worked for a while.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 02:34 PM

Okay.

Btw. if you're now true with us you surely understand you won't see the light of the Day anymore after the Night falls. So could you do us a favour and make a last effort, trying your best to come forwards with your mind about all of us.

None of us is infallible but we'd at least know you're not trying to fool or deceive us.

PS. I really don't get a few of your decisions during the game if you're the ranger but maybe we'll discuss them later in the post-game discussion... :)

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 02:36 PM

The idea was to get enough suspicion that the wolves wouldn't kill me, but not enough to be lynched. :rolleyes:That's what I try to do as innocent too. It's a tender balance... I know it (just look at this game!!! :rolleyes:).

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 02:39 PM

And we need some new candidates now...

Happily I had started reading Rikae as I realised she has been left quite unnoticed and I had some suspicions slowly developing in the back of my head. Now it seems all the more urgent to get it done.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 02:42 PM

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 02:47 PM

I know, I know. :( But given that I truly did think Nerwen and Mith innocent, I don't know how valuable my insights are going to be...Cheer up mate! If you've got so many wrong you'll eventually get it right as well. Stay with us a while still. It's a nicer way to exit a game than just shutting the computer and be down.

Just coming to think of it: our hunter and ranger tearing each other apart Day after Day... And poor Brinn not able to share the fun with anyone... ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 02:49 PM

Cheer up mate! If you've got so many wrong you'll eventually get it right as well. Stay with us a while still. It's a nicer way to exit a game than just shutting the computer and be down.

Just coming to think of it: our hunter and ranger tearing each other apart Day after Day... And poor Brinn not able to share the fun with anyone... ;)

Well I suppose there is that. :rolleyes:

And I suppose my hint on Day 2 was a bit too subtle. Ah well. I can point to it and say "SEE?!" :D

Rikae

07-13-2008, 02:54 PM

Here's the exchange about grinning I found a bit sinister - first SallySpammer said "Look at Agan's grin", and then Agan said "How did you guess I'm grinning right now? :p

Though only at the absurdity of this day ending. :D"

Not much, but it gave me the creeps.

Well, I said earlier that I found Agan more suspicious than Shasta anyway, and now Shasta's reveal makes it clear.

++Aganzir

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 02:57 PM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 03:02 PM

Why did the wolves kill Sally and not me? :confused:

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 03:10 PM

I seem to have lost a host of tracks now if and as Shasta is innocent...

Some of the points I had on Agan were built on the presumption that she's a wolf together with Shasta. Also my first nagging suspicions on Rikae were brought about by her such staunchly trying to divert the vote away from Mith & Shasta... and trying to say Shasta looks innocentish.

I need to check a few things more...

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 03:10 PM

Well, Shasta, I'll believe you for now. Even if you don't die during the night, I'm sure if you are lying the real Ranger would come forth at some point tomorrow. That Shasta & Eomer show was right funny looking back. :D Are you ready to join forces to brutally slaughter these loathsome wolves?

I haven't been able to make much sense of the Sally kill but perhaps we can gain more if we discuss. I have been thinking that Sally wasn't being too cobblerish. No-one suspected her at any point, really. Then, after her vote yesterday, when it looked as though she might finally be getting some grief from the village today, and thus keeping attention away from the wolves, she's killed by the wolves. I found it strange.

Hehe, it was quite amusing. Hmm.

I think Rikae and Aganzir to be the most innocent here; but knowing what I do about who I used to think was innocent, this is worrying. :p

And I still can't shake the feeling that Dury dreamt of Nogrod!

I'm not sure why Sally was killed. Unless it was because she had pointed the wolves out somehow?

Edit: X'd with Nogrod. Oh dear, I feel I've set you to running in circles. :(

Rikae

07-13-2008, 03:11 PM

And we need some new candidates now...

Nog, are you saying that Shasta's revelation should let Aganzir off the hook? Because in your last post, if I recall correctly, you suspected her as well.

Eönwë

07-13-2008, 03:11 PM

Why did the wolves kill Sally and not me? :confused:

Maybe because if you really are the hunter (and my guess is that you are) then one of them may get killed.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 03:12 PM

Why did the wolves kill Sally and not me? :confused:Why did they kill Kath? And why Dury?

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 03:13 PM

Nog, are you saying that Shasta's revelation should let Aganzir off the hook?Not the least! She's the best candidate I have at the moment. But there's two of them left and betweem them there are connections which need "to work"...

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 03:14 PM

Why did they kill Kath? And why Dury?

I already explained why they killed Kath, :p. But I do wonder why they attacked her the first time.

Eönwë

07-13-2008, 03:16 PM

*switches to IC mode*

Or maybe both Shasta and Eomer are wolves, trying to look like gifteds so we don't vote them for lynching. And that way the gifteds don't need to reveal until later (if they are about to be lynched), and because no-one knows who they are, then they are safe from the wolves too. That way they can continue to save us.

*switches off IC mode*

Seems I got a bit carrried away there.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 03:17 PM

Now onto a Mith and Nogrod connection. (If there is one).

Day 1 I didn't see much interaction between the two, Mith doesn't name Nogrod at all, and Nogrod only mentions her in a couple of posts, in passing. I don't see anything that would point either to Nogrod being Mith's partner, or not.

On Day 2 in Post 188:
So there was a danger of a tie of three emerging including Mith or Nerwen (whom I considered and still do consider not good lynches at least before any better reasons are given).
Nogrod names both Nerwen and Mith. Both are known wolves. I think this looks innocent for Nogrod, he's a smart wolf. Would he name his two partners in the same sentence and defend both of them? With Nogrod anything is possible, but at this time there were still only 3 wolves, and I don't think a wolf-Nogrod would stay that close to his two partners.

Post 232:
We need to check Kit toMorrow. As well as Mith. And I'll promise to read Nerwen properly.
Again he names Mith and Nerwen practically in the same sentence. And he does follow up the next day by "looking" at Mith.

Day 3 we start getting a little more...

Mith in post 300 goes on a tirade:
If I give up trying to sort through the posts (and time is against me) I may well may well vote for him on the principle that I am getting heartily fed up with him acting as some kind of cyber sheep-dog, voting literally at at the last minute, expecting everyone else to vote before him, then wringing his hands in moral outrage when they fail to do what he wants. Especially as when he has done it in other games he has played he has been a wolf. Just seems like such a major back covering exercise as if he is terrified a vote may incriminate him in some way - manipulative without risking the exposure of taking a lead.

And less than an hour later in post 306 she votes for Nogrod:
However I have skimmed again and it strikes me that not only is Nogrod being quietly amnipulative but he is being quiet.... normally you can't look away for a moment without there being more analysis. This time ( and I don't regard it as a bad thing as such) there are many others who are much more active in the discussion. Hard as it is to believe but Nogrod seems to be flying under the radar. Is that because in the classic scenario, Nerwen was a very loud wolf indeed?

Well I seldom regret voting for him and often regret not following through when I do suspect him.
This is what got me first seriously suspicious about Mith. I said her vote for Nogrod seemed really out of the blue, and I remember her the next day saying it wasn't out of the blue at all, she had said she was going to vote for Nogrod before. Going back through everything (unless I missed something from Days 1 and 2) the only time she talked about voting for Nogrod was less than an hour before her vote on Day 3, and only 6 posts before. Sorry Mith, that is still out of the blue.

Also at that time I came to a different conclusion than Mith's reasoning which was just plain out odd...Nogrod's quietness? Nogrod a quiet wolf? He's not afraid to blabber away if he's a wolf. Also, I didn't think Nogrod was that quiet at all. So, definitely Mith's Day 3 vote was what got me suspicious and at that point I thought Nogrod looked innocent.

In Post 311 Nogrod strikes back by saying Mith is wrong. I won't quote the whole thing, because it's rather long and Nogrod is pretty much just saying the same thing that he always votes late (if he can) and Mith saying he does it when he's a wolf is just wrong.

Nogrod strikes back pretty forcefully and a wolf-Nogrod would not be afraid to do so. But, my question is would he start to encourage others to vote for wolf partners? I still remember when I was dooped and as far as I remember he let me lead the case against his partners and he made the crucial lynching votes to look innocent.

In Post 328 Nogrod makes known his willingness to vote for Mith. I want to so bad say oh he's a wolf! But I can't let my bias get in the way here, this doesn't say either way because an innocent Nogrod would do the same.

Day 4:

Nogrod in post 356, 359 and through the rest of the day he keeps remarking that he wants to see Mith lynched, and still thinks Mith is a wolf. There are a couple posts where they have some playful exchange.

In 382 Nogrod defends his reasons for not always voting for his top suspects. Normally I would say to vote for who you think is most suspicious, but when you like to be around at the end like Nogrod he is absolutely right. The situation could be very different and who you want to see lynched might not be possible. So, in that instant you have to make a decision to choose who you think is more suspicious. That's just what Nogrod does, I've noticed so far in this village, at the end, Nogrod making known who he wants to go after tomorrow, but also promising to look at those he thinks are innocent.

There isn't anything else that strikes out to me on Day 4, just the same Nogrod saying he definitely wants to lynch Mith today.

I gone in thinking haha Nogrod you will not fool me again, I know you've gone and done it again. I know you've backstabbed one of your wolf partners. But, I think the conclusion I've reached is completely different, and if you are fooling me again Nogrod I will bring hell down on you next time this happens.

Anyway the conclusion I've come to is obviously Nogrod is a smart wolf, and from the talk throughout these days we are in a village very keen on trying to catch wolf on wolf votes. Plus, I'm in this village and through our lovely past he knows I would want to quickly jump on him for a wolf-on-wolf vote, so would wolf- Nogrod really do it again is the question? Perhaps in the right circumstances, but these aren't the right circumstances. Also, taking into consideration Mith knows me well, and thus knows it would be easy to latch on to Nogrod and frame him. Mith's playful banter looks like an attempt to get me to go after Nogrod, where Nogrod has been pretty much straight to business against Mith since Day 3.

And here comes another flip-flop from me. :rolleyes: After thinking Kit's analysis of a wolf-Mith and wolf-Nogrod made sense, I'm going to say it's wrong.

Kit was right when she said if Durelin dreamed of Nogrod early she would not come out strong against Nogrod, she would more or less try to hint at it. I know because when I was a wolf and Durelin dreamed of me on Day 1 that's what she did. She let me have fun and mess around for a few days until I lost Naria and it was down to me and Valier. Then she came out and revealed I was a wolf and she dreamed of me on Night 1.

However, I think Kit was wrong in part of her analysis. Back in that past village I talked about above Durelin would not send confusing messages. She let me have fun for a few days but since she knew my identity she would only address me and the way she avoided my fellow wolves detection was when I would post she would say something like "Boro looks less suspicious to me now." She doesn't do that with Nogrod, she lumps Nogrod and myself together:
Also, Nogrod and Boro haven't been getting nearly enough attention. But really, I feel good about Nogrod's vote, because I like sticking to principles. And I liked Boro's attitude on Day 1 anyway. Day 2 I need to look at...obviously.
I'm inclined to believe Durelin didn't know about Nogrod or me, and like a wise lets the village know that. Let's them know she thinks we're innocent, but we have not been getting enough attention and she doesn't know. I don't think she would confuse us as Kit's analysis suggests, if she dreamed of Nogrod and found out he was a wolf she would be subtle about it. Which Kitanna was right about, but I think she is only half-right.

Edit: crossed with every post since my last one

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 03:39 PM

Why did they kill Kath? And why Dury?

To kill the Seer, obviously. With the Seer gone why not kill the Hunter while he's focused on innocent Shasta? Yeah, they want to kill the Guardian, but there's no way to distinguish the Guardian from anyone else, and they could spend the whole game trying to kill him/her.

It's all so curious. I didn't mention anyone else as being high in my suspicions. It was Mith and Shasta for me yesterday. There would seem no danger of me taking a wolf down with me.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 03:44 PM

First the wolf-kills.

They spent the two first Nights killing Kath. The second Night is pretty understandable as they had a secure kill then and they must have been feeling a little bad they failed on the first one. But why her in the first place?

On Day1 she posted twice only saying she's in a hurry. Then she voted Eönwë accompanied by this: Alright, I'm giving up because I need to go to bed and I've people wanting to use the computer. Random vote because hey, it's Day 1. So truly random, I'm voting for the last person to post.

Now did she hit it right? If she did I'd understand the wolves thinking her the seer and wishing to do away with her whatever the cost - not the least remembering the tight spots Eönwë was the first Days.

And how he has not been given almost any attention after that (but by Shasta...)!

Then they went on Dury. If the above is correct then her posts & voting for Mith might have gotten the wolves to their feet once again.

If not... well they both still fit the general description of being good players even if from the quiter end of the scale.

And then Sally - who had actually tried to help Mith. I'm not sure has anyone looked at Sally's suspicions? I mean is she someone who leaves as little trails as possible? At least with Kath and partly by Dury (remember we have read her through a looking glass only because she was our seer) that could be counted as the common denominator as well.

But I'd consider bringing Eönwë back up in the front of suspicions again...

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 03:47 PM

++Shasta

Nice try wolf. I guess you get what you want, but now you only have one wolf left and still with the hunter, I feel his/her days are numbered.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 03:53 PM

Ha! :D

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 03:55 PM

Now Boro you speak such a lot of sense I'm getting scared... :eek:

But going back to your earlier post.
I have felt Kitanna's voting has been pretty safe.

Maybe it just looks that way because Kit isn't around for the deadline and she usually has to vote early, but even though she is still pretty active, her votes just look like she's trying to stay out of trouble.That was exactly what I thought in the first couple of Days but after she has also voted "well" I have kind of let her slip away from my radar as there have been more suspicious candidates to fill my mind. Voting for Mith that early in the Day is not too risky and would be a good move indeed - and possibly even agreed by Mith.

OOOOOPS!

I just saw something raising my eyebrows a bit in the thread...
*goes back to see and probably need a cigarette*

EDIT: explanation to the last three lines - x'd with Boro & Eomer...

Rikae

07-13-2008, 04:02 PM

++Shasta

Nice try wolf. I guess you get what you want, but now you only have one wolf left and still with the hunter, I feel his/her days are numbered.

If you're the ranger, who did you protect on Night 2?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:04 PM

Have to go to bed very soon. This Boro/Shasta thing -- it doesn't matter who to believe. The village has the numbers on its side. If the liar succeeds in fooling us today he will die tomorrow, with enough innocents left to keep this game rolling for another couple of days at least.

Also, the remaining wolf will have to consider whether to risk killing me or having a known innocent around until the last day. Last night was your chance!

Edit: speaking gibberish: last night was not your chance, if Shasta is indeed the wolf. The sleepiness is making me stupid. Oh alright, I can't blame the sleepiness for that...

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:04 PM

If you're the ranger, who did you protect on Night 2?
It was Kath.

Rikae

07-13-2008, 04:07 PM

It was Kath.

Bummer. I was hoping we'd have a known innocent after all.
Why Kath, anyway? That might give us some insight...

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:08 PM

Boro-wolf would have nothing to gain from this claim. Shasta-wolf at least gets the benefit of discovering the Ranger for his buddy.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:09 PM

If that is a challenge... what else it could be... then I'm inclined to trust Boro on this matter; just look at the points made on Shasta this far.

Also and more poignantly: why would Borowolf do that kind of thing? If Shasta is the ranger they already have a secure kill the next Night and no ranger-problem after that!

I need to think if there is a more cunning possibility but at the moment I tend to trust Boro.

EDIT: X'd with the last four

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:12 PM

Bummer. I was hoping we'd have a known innocent after all.
Why Kath, anyway? That might give us some insight...~Rikae
I've been in a lot of games with Kath, and usually wolves don't go for a loud talker early in the game, but they want to get rid of someone who could be dangerous. Kath is an experienced and good player.

Also Eomer, I have not protected myself yet.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:16 PM

++Boro

I can prove I protected Kath Night 1.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:16 PM

Rangers can protect themselves nowadays, eh? ;)

So it's very straight-forward? We kill Shasta today and, if Boro has fooled us for some reason, we kill him tomorrow. I can't see how Boro could possibly benefit from such an act.

I will vote in a couple of minutes and then I must go.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:19 PM

Rangers can protect themselves nowadays, eh? ;)

-The ranger can protect someone more than once, but not two Nights in a row. He/she may protect him/herself once the entire game.I was looking at the same thing...

So it's very straight-forward? We kill Shasta today and, if Boro has fooled us for some reason, we kill him tomorrow. I can't see how Boro could possibly benefit from such an act.Exactly. Unless that self-defence rule doesn't change things... as some of you know I can be quite a conspiracy-theorist at times and I need to mull that over one time before voting for Shasta.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:20 PM

I'm here, I'm here...

but apparently my services are no longer required as Nerwen seems fully capable of making herself understood.

Woe.

Given that I'm not entirely here yet, would it be a bad idea to query as to why there was an attack by the hackers (prevented by the ranger - kudos to you!) and then McCaber... died? Surely there hasn't been enough time for someone to be modfired (the pun was inevitable...)?

Off to read the thread in one go-through now.

Okay, first decent post.

Things that caught my eye Day 1, from my reading:

Bit of an early-on banter-scuffle between Nerwen and Elf-Warrior, Formendacil and Boromir.

Formendacil's bit of a throwaway vote for Nogrod on the grounds, basically, that "it's Day 1, oh well". (Nogrod agrees with me, post #55... but then he would, wouldn't he?)

Nerwen seeing a wolf in "the Agan/Nilp/Form brawl". Personally I don't see one. (Kitanna does, though, post #52.) I see Agan replying to a couple of Form's statements, and Nilp with a bit of unfounded suspicion. To me, the odd one out here is Nilp.

Durelin is, as usual, more concerned with amusement than anything else. Not that that's a bad thing, necessarily, because I do have to join her in "guffawing" at Eonwe's first post, which smacks of trying too hard.

Ka seems to be metagaming a bit (#71) which I frown upon on principle, but not harshly (:p). Something about her "oh you may suspect me, but I don't suspect you, see how affable I am" attitude in this post strikes me as somehow off, though, even if Agan's suspicions were facetious.

I agree with Mith's #79 about Sally's bit of opportunism - er, her vote. I'm curious as to why Eomer then voiced suspicion of Mith (#84), calling her an early-vote critic, when both Form and Kitanna had people critique their early votes (Agan and Nogrod respectively). In fact, there was quite a lot of discussion about Kitanna's vote and the reasoning behind it. Why wait until Mith posted critiquing Sally's vote? Interestingly, Boromir does the same in #91.

In fact, Eomer's been suspicious of Mith since before her vote (#64). Hmm...

In #98, Eonwe votes for Mith without having previously had any suspicions against her (that I could see, anyway). Curiously, this post comes right after Eomer's post, coincidentally also voting for Mith. Eonwe X'ed with it, apparently... but...

Kath random-votes. At least she's honest. Of course, a random-vote during Day 1 is nearly guaranteed not to be followed up, making it quite safe (and possibly wolf-on-wolf).

Hmm. In #102, Nogrod expressly edits, mentioning Eonwe's edit to say he X'd with Eomer, but apparently did not X with anyone above him, leading me to an odd conclusion. To quote Alice; "Curiouser and curiouser!"

I like Nerwen in #107, where she mentions what I've garnered so far about Eomer and Eonwe.

"So be it", Elf-warrior, I think your vote in #116 is suspicious as it "just happens" to make Sixth the frontrunner in votes. :rolleyes:

So, my list (as it is) is as follows:

Suspicious: Eomer, Eonwe

Sort-Of Suspicious: Kath, Sally, Elf-warrior

Mediocre: Everyone not mentioned above or below this line -----------------------

Not-So Suspicious: Nogrod

Not Suspicious: Mith, Nerwen

Thanks, Ka, for clearing up the McCaber business.

I find it amusing that a crossbow is the weapon of choice for our dear Ranger - and why are we in tents anyway? I miss civilization.

Translation:

Hey, silly new person!

Don't you know I was tied for votes with yourself, Mithalwen, and Sixth near the deadline?

Are you being in-character and making up ridiculous conspiracy theories?

Or, are you stupid or what?

Translation:

Why are you posting ridiculous conspiracy theories? Or are you just backing off now?

Yes, but Eonwe wasn't suspicious then, really, all the attention was on Agan, Form, and Sixth.

I don't see why not. It's not as if anyone would follow the first vote for someone, clearly labeled as "random".

I think my next course of action will be to go back and see if I can figure out who was conspicuous enough (assuming they both picked a loud person) to be targeted both by the wolves and the Ranger - that path hasn't been taken yet, can't hurt, and might help. How long before deadline, may I ask? I wasn't here for it yesterday.

Edit: X'd with Agan and... Elf-warrior. Oh, dear.

As to my previous post; I decided to go do something different, and leave the wolves and Ranger - however, I might go back to that later. :rolleyes:

Is the deadline in the next hour, then? It's 5:00 PM for me right now.

There's a reason I mentioned the Ranger so much Day 2. Look at each word following "Ranger -" in my four posts. Now look at the first letter of each word. What does it spell?

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:23 PM

Crivvens!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:26 PM

Well, you knew you had attacked Kath and failed to kill her; and you set up this puzzle to try and convince people that you were the Ranger in exactly this scenario?

Quite intriguing, dear Shasta. :smokin:

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:27 PM

Crivvens!Seconded... even if I have no idea what that means... :)

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:27 PM

Other side of exactly this scenario, Eomer.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:30 PM

Like I said Shasta, nice try, I can prove I protected Kath too, but the only way would be illegal.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:30 PM

Scots exclamation of surprise. Yes, you're right, Nogrod; you were thinking along those lines too. :D

Look: it doesn't really matter who the Ranger is. The village will have both your heads on pikes and thank the real one retrospectively if need be. Whichever course we choose leads to the same result. Right?

If Boro is lying, we lynch Shasta, lose someone, lynch Boro and lose someone. That still leave us 2 days to find the last wolf.

And vice versa.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:31 PM

Like I said Shasta, nice try, I can prove I protected Kath too, but the only way would be illegal.

You're so cute. It's a good thing my way was legal. :)

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:32 PM

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:34 PM

(let's be clear, on Night1 the wolves were not allowed a kill and on Night2 they failed because of the ranger, right?)~Nogrod
Yes

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:35 PM

If it's a preplanned ploy I would raise my hat to you Shasta (if I had one to be sure) and bow low. And maybe it's possible. The wolves decided on that kind of a plot Shasta would pull off when in dire danger.
But those secret messages are not a proof of anything... They only prove that you knew who the target was on Night2 (let's be clear, on Night1 the wolves were not allowed a kill and on Night2 they failed because of the ranger, right?)

EDIT: X'd with everyone since my last post...

The hint was there because I was afraid I might die, had planned not to use my self-protect until I was forced to reveal, and I figured it would be a good idea to help the villagers out by letting them know who I protected.

But now that I'm going to be lynched for it... :rolleyes:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-13-2008, 04:35 PM

Ach. I'm going to bed.

++SHASTA

If you are telling the truth, my friend, then know that we will avenge you. The village will win, and that's something to be happy about. :)

If you are lying, then let us finally end the Shasta/Eomer show. I believe gruesome executions still draw ratings like no other spectacle. :D

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:36 PM

I am getting ever-increasingly annoyed that it seems I'm going to be lynched my first time as a gifted just because Borowolf has been here longer and is more believeable, though. :mad:

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:37 PM

If you are telling the truth, my friend, then know that we will avenge you. The village will win, and that's something to be happy about.

A postmortem vengeance is NOT what I had in mind.

I apologize if I seem to be taking this in bad grace, but really...!

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:38 PM

Shasta no you're getting lynched because you're a wolf and realized yours (and your partners) days are numbered.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:38 PM

Shasta no you're getting lynched because you're a wolf and realized yours (and your partners) days are numbered.

You be quiet. You've done enough.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:39 PM

Look: it doesn't really matter who the Ranger is. The village will have both your heads on pikes and thank the real one retrospectively if need be. Whichever course we choose leads to the same result. Right?It should be that. I was only pondering whether that self-defence right would change anything, like making it more important to get the actual ranger lynched (if the numbers right now are such they need that security) - just to be sure. But as it's not a wolf's self-defence right it should be the same with my logic.

We lynch Shasta toDay and he's a wolf - great, and Boro will live one Day more - leaving us with 6-1 toMorrow morning.
We lynch Shasta toDay and he is the ranger - bad, but we will lynch Borowolf toMorrow - leaving us with 5-1 (4-1 in the morning of Day7).

EDIT: X'd with a lot once more... God I'm slow!

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:41 PM

When I'm dead, people, please notice how Nogrod has completely thrown out the idea of lynching Borowolf today.

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 04:42 PM

Of all the Days to get a headache and come on late... I mean, we still have twenty-plus minutes, but this double-revelation business has me very confused...

On the one hand, I still very much want to see Shasta as dead, since his vote continues to strike me tenderly... but I have to say that his "proof" of innocence... which I'm not entirely sure wasn't planted... has at least the semblance of validity.

Boromir, on the other hand, is entirely capable of pulling a double-bluff like this, as I recall from games long past--though that was cobbler he was bluffing at in the last hours. Still, the knowledge of his capability leads me to think him suspicious, especially in light of Shasta's self-revelation.

On the other-other hand... Boromir was hardly appearing lynchworthy today. Why come forward--if he's a wolf? Even if we didn't kill Shasta Ranger today, he'd still have revealed, and they could eat him at night... and in all probability another innocent would be lynched.

Eomer, I really wish you hadn't taken off right before this... the guidance of our only apparently-Innocent would have been appreciated, though I guess I can always follow your vote (and I'm still bitter enough over yesterDay to like the example set).

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 04:45 PM

I am getting ever-increasingly annoyed that it seems I'm going to be lynched my first time as a gifted just because Borowolf has been here longer and is more believeable, though. :mad:

Well you really did make a mess of it yesterday... even if Mith had been innocent, she was just that--innocent, not Gifted, since Eomer had already revealed. As a Ranger, you really should not have made yourself so incredibly high-profile in the last moments--if indeed you were.

Boromir, on the other hand, has no apparent reason to reveal himself as a Gifted today except for the fact that you--a wolf--would be able to hitch a free ride on his Giftedness were he to remain silent.

That, at least, is how I'm reading it... Your posting since the last post I read (Eomer's sign-off) is making me much more confident in your lupinity.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:47 PM

Well you really did make a mess of it yesterday... even if Mith had been innocent, she was just that--innocent, not Gifted, since Eomer had already revealed. As a Ranger, you really should not have made yourself so incredibly high-profile in the last moments--if indeed you were.

Boromir, on the other hand, has no apparent reason to reveal himself as a Gifted today except for the fact that you--a wolf--would be able to hitch a free ride on his Giftedness were he to remain silent.

That, at least, is how I'm reading it... Your posting since the last post I read (Eomer's sign-off) is making me much more confident in your lupinity.

You know what?

Fine.

If you're so "confident in my lupinity", and you're going to criticize my first-ever performance as a gifted, then go right ahead. Vote me.

I've had it.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:48 PM

please notice how Nogrod has completely thrown out the idea of lynching Borowolf today.Hah... :)

Okay. Don't take it personally Shasta. And as Eomer said you look like a better candidate at the moment - not because Boro has been around longer but because of all the things that have made you suspicious and because of the fact that it's hard to see the gain a Boro-wolf would have made by a fake-revealment toDay.

If you're true and Boro fakes rest assured we will lynch him and win this for you and us.

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 04:50 PM

You know what?

Fine.

If you're so "confident in my lupinity", and you're going to criticize my first-ever performance as a gifted, then go right ahead. Vote me.

I've had it.

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but what's needed isn't so much a defence of your decisions, as you've already given a plausible accounting of them, but rather an accounting of Boro's actions that makes clear why he would come out at this point in the game and accuse himself. There was hardly enough suspicion, as far as I can see, to merit coming out into the open as a wolf right now.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:51 PM

I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but what's needed isn't so much a defence of your decisions, as you've already given a plausible accounting of them, but rather an accounting of Boro's actions that makes clear why he would come out at this point in the game and accuse himself. There was hardly enough suspicion, as far as I can see, to merit coming out into the open as a wolf right now.

Which is not something Boro is going to give, since you're already lynching me, so your willingness to be convinced means nothing.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:51 PM

You know what?
Fine.
If you're so "confident in my lupinity", and you're going to criticize my first-ever performance as a gifted, then go right ahead. Vote me.
I've had it.Okay. Rikae used this tactics once, not so long ago, and made almost everyone nervous as I think no one wants to hurt other's feelings either.

Now please whatever the facts let's not get personal - and I do dislike this as a method of survival if it's that...

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:54 PM

Okay. Rikae used this tactics once, not so long ago, and made almost everyone nervous as I think no one wants to hurt other's feelings either.

Now please whatever the facts let's not get personal - and I do dislike this as a method of survival if it's that...

I can't help it if it's true and it's how I feel at the moment.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 04:54 PM

Formendacil, I'll be honest, I considered not revealing because I knew Shasta was trying to drag me out. Since I haven't used my protection yet, that was the biggest reason, and thus had to make sure Shasta's last ditch effort of survival didn't work.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:56 PM

I wouldn't even be this angry if I could see a reason for Boro doing what he's doing. But it seems to me that there isn't one. Like Boro was so confident that he'd be believed over me that he could say whatever he wanted.

This is all coming out so muddled, I don't type well when I'm frustrated. I'll be quiet.

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 04:57 PM

I can't help it if it's true and it's how I feel at the moment.

Be that as it may, I hope it will not be taken as overtly personal if I vote:

++ Shastanis Althedruin

Given our history after yesterDay, I'd be inconsistent and inconsiderate to do otherwise.

Mind you, if you're innocent, I am very well aware that I may be on the block soon, given that you suspected me yesterDay and put your neck out for it, and given that I've suspected you strongly today, but as far as my (very faulty, often, in this game) logic can take me, Boromir is vastly more likely a candidate for lupinity.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 04:58 PM

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 04:59 PM

Be that as it may, I hope it will not be taken as overtly personal if I vote:

++ Shastanis Althedruin

Given our history after yesterDay, I'd be inconsistent and inconsiderate to do otherwise.

Mind you, if you're innocent, I am very well aware that I may be on the block soon, given that you suspected me yesterDay and put your neck out for it, and given that I've suspected you strongly today, but as far as my (very faulty, often, in this game) logic can take me, Boromir is vastly more likely a candidate for lupinity.

So in other words, you're voting me, but saying that Boro is a very likely wolf, so you can cover yourself tomorrow.

Nicely done.

Wolf.

Boromir88

07-13-2008, 05:00 PM

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 05:00 PM

All right then.

++ Shasta

If you're the werewolf I must say I strongly disliked your last defence (not the faked revealment but the emotional act).

If you're true we'll make the wolves pay for this trick - whatever the reason behind it might be...

Don't worry, Nogrod, it wasn't an emotional act.

You'll excuse me, of course, if I don't find your constant protestations of "but we'll win it!.... after you die" to be very comforting.

Nogrod

07-13-2008, 05:00 PM

Like Boro was so confident that he'd be believed over me that he could say whatever he wanted.It's not that Shasta. It's the presumed reasons why people do what they do...

Brinniel

07-13-2008, 05:00 PM

Deadline. Quiet everyone!

Shasta has been lynched.

Formendacil

07-13-2008, 05:00 PM

So in other words, you're voting me, but saying that Boro is a very likely wolf, so you can cover yourself tomorrow.

Nicely done.

Wolf.

You'll rue those words when I'm dead and revealed Innocent.

In the meantime, however, I would add to Nogrod that, Gifted or Lupine, Shasta's emotionalism need not be contrived... it's just as painful to get lynched as a playacting wolf as it is when innocent.

EDIT: X-d with the Moddess. My most abject apologies.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-13-2008, 05:01 PM

They'll know my reason tomorrow. I'm sorry Shasta for any pain and suffering I have caused (seriously I know how frustrating it is when you're not believed). You just took my last defense left and it had to be this way.

Of course it did.

I fully expect you to attempt to claim ordo tomorrow when the narration reveals that I am who I claim to be. And at the moment, they'll probably believe you.

Edit: Sorry Brinn. Can I storm off in disgust instead of dying, do you think?

Brinniel

07-13-2008, 06:28 PM

Though the BDers had managed to lynch a wolf yesterday, they still had to sort out the mess that created such a risky tie which left them pointing fingers.

When Shasta felt the increasing pressure put on him, he felt it was time he say something. “Wait guys!” he cried out. “Don’t lynch me….I’m the ranger!”
“Really?” Nogrod replied. “Well then, I will believe you…..as long as no one else claims rangership.”
“In that case, I’m the ranger!” Boromir shouted out.
“That complicates things,” said Formendacil. “But if Boromir were a wolf, what reason would he have to contest Shasta now? Therefore, he must be the truthful and Shasta is the lying wolf.”
“No! No! Boromir is lying!” Shasta yelled. “I really am the ranger! I even have proof!”

Shasta ran to his tent and returned with a piece of paper clenched in his fist.
“See….let me show you,” he told the others.
“We don’t need to see,” Eomer responded. “I’m sure a clever wolf like you would’ve pre-planned this sort of thing by planting some sort of ‘evidence.’ What are we waiting for? Let’s kill this wolf already!”
“Please don’t!” cried Shasta. “Killing me would be a mistake.”
“I sort of doubt that,” Nogrod said. “But if you are telling the truth, I swear we will avenge your death.”
“But why should I have to die at all?” Shasta sobbed. “Okay fine…I give up. Don’t believe me. I’m leaving this place.”

Shasta started to walk away, but the BDers picked up their pitchforks and torches.
“We can’t just let you go,” said Rikae. “How will we ever know whether you are a wolf or not?”
“Let’s just get this done with,” said Aganzir.
“I will do the deed,” spoke up Boromir. He held a large crossbow and aimed it at Shasta.
“Hey, that’s my bow!” Shasta shouted. “It’s mi-“
He grunted loudly as the first arrow hit his chest.
“Oh c’mon guys, don’t do this-“ Another arrow landed in his stomach. “Can’t you see that Boromir’s evil?” A third arrow hit him.
“Oh please,” Shasta continued. “Just give me a chance-“
Boromir fired a fourth arrow.
“I’ll show you-“ A fifth arrow hit Shasta. “I have proof…”

Shasta continued to plead his innocence while Boromir shot more arrows. Meanwhile the others watched, making bets on how many arrows it would take to kill Shasta. After a good twenty minutes, Shasta finally slumped over and said no more.
“Ooh, that makes twenty-six arrows. I win!” Eomer cheered as he collected his winnings. But his smile quickly dropped when he looked over to the dead Shasta realising no change had occurred.

Eönwë pulled the paper from Shasta’s clenched fist and started to read it aloud: “Dear Shasta, I have chosen you to be one of the three new moderators. Your job is to protect-“ Eönwë stopped reading. “Uh oh…”
Boromir shrugged, still holding the crossbow. “So? How do we know Shasta didn’t write the letter himself?”
“Hey…lemme see that,” Kitanna demanded, grabbing the bow from Boromir.
The others surrounded Kitanna examining the crossbow. Then they found it. Carved out neatly into the stock was Property of Shastanis Althreduin.

The BDers had killed their ranger.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Boromir88~the one upper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably
Eomer of the Rohirrim~easily-offended trendy
Nogrod~the wanna-be moderator
Eönwë~conspiracy theorist
Formendacil~Tolkien Canonist

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Night 6 has begun.

The wolves may choose a kill. The hunter may hunt. Everyone else should remain quiet.

Brinniel

07-14-2008, 05:05 PM

The BDer awoke in his dark tent to hear heavy breathing coming from both sides of him. He began to shout for help, but a furry paw covered his mouth, allowing no sound to escape.

“Best you stay quiet,” said the wolf.
“Why should I?” the BDer whispered back. “I mean, you’re gonna kill me, aren’t you?”
“Well….maybe, but not necessarily,” the other wolf replied.
“All this nightly killing business has gotten a tad boring,” the first wolf said. “There used to be a time when our victims would actually run away from us. Now they won’t even try….they just let us eat them.”
“So here’s the deal,” explained the second wolf. “We want to play a game. Do you know hide-and-seek?”
“Of course…” answered the BDer.
“Good. We’ll count to 100. If we don’t find you by dawn, we’ll let you live.”
“And what if you find me?”
“Well then, sucks for you,” said the first wolf. “So you better find a good hiding spot.”

The BDer scampered out of his tent, still dressed in his pajamas. Coming from inside the tent, he could hear the werewolves counting: “1….2….3….4….” The BDer hurried through the camp, trying to find the perfect hiding place. Unfortunately for him, he had never been good at these childhood games. He didn’t understand why, but he always managed to lose. As he circled the camp a seventh time, he could hear the wolves again: “89….90…91…”
“Eeps!” squealed the BDer, and he scurried to the first hiding place he spotted.

“Ready or not, here we come!” announced the wolves.
As they stepped out of the tent, they could hear a whimper coming from the trees at the edge of the camp. Behind the smallest trees, they could see a figure shaking.
“Oh man….now that’s just pathetic,” sighed the first wolf.
“Of all the BDers we could’ve chosen, we just had to choose the one who was rubbish at hide-and-seek,” the second wolf complained.
“You better start running,” the called out to their found victim.

The frightened BDer immediately took off, but he had not gone twenty meters when he tripped over a tree root. The werewolves caught up to him, but since all the BDers were heavy sleepers, no one could hear him scream.

The wolves took turns stirring the pot as it cooked over the fire pit.
“I think I’ve had more fun chasing rabbits,” one commented.
“Oh who cares….a meal’s a meal, and that’s all that matters,” replied the second wolf.
“And I must admit, this is a mighty good one,” said the first wolf as they sampled a spoonful. “It’d be rather selfish not to share…”

---------------------------------------------

The next day, the BDers sat down around the fire pit to discover their breakfast had already been fixed. They did not bother to question who had gone to the trouble, but simply passed the pot around as each camper splattered a large spoonfuls of oatmeal onto their plates.
“Mmmm….this is really good,” said Nogrod as he took the first bite.
“It’s amazing,” Eönwë added. “The best oatmeal I’ve ever had.”
The other BDers dug into their breakfast and agreed with full mouths.
“I can’t believe it actually came from a box,” commented Aganzir. She picked up an empty cardboard box labeled Lupine Oatmeal.
“Ooh, can you tell us what the ingredients are?” asked Rikae. “There’s just this curious taste that I can’t identify.”
“Let’s see…” Aganzir replied scanning the box. “Main Ingredients: Formendacil.”

The BDers froze, then spat into their plates. One by one, they slowly dumped the remainder of their breakfast into the garbage sack without saying another word.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Boromir88~the one upper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably
Eomer of the Rohirrim~easily-offended trendy
Nogrod~the wanna-be moderator
Eönwë~conspiracy theorist

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)

----------------------------------------------------------

Day 6 has begun.

Wolves stop PMing. Everyone may post.

Nogrod

07-14-2008, 05:22 PM

We lynch Boro toDay. We owe it to Shasta - and we need to do it for ourselves.

Secondly - I hate to sound like that evil Borowolf a little while ago - we should also try to do something constructive as well even if our lynch is clear; to discuss, to ponder about things, to reveal our thoughts... I will personally hold those very suspicious who don't toDay come forwards with their ideas without a really heavy RL-reason.

It's 5-2 toDay.

After we lynch Borowolf and the remaining wolf kills one of us it's 4-1 the next Day (and 2-1 if we miss then the next Day).

So we have three Days to go. But we shouldn't lose this one with more of us around.

I need to write some football results to Arda soccer tournament but I will be checking every once in a while for an hour or something before going to sleep. I hope to see you around.

I mean after I post my thoughts on Boro's actions yesterDay first... :)
(It takes a moment...)

Rikae

07-14-2008, 05:31 PM

I don't understand why Boro would sacrifice himself like this. He wasn't under any pressure, after all... my first thought was that the remaining wolf must be under even less pressure than Boro, and the kill last night looks as though it might be designed to get me or Aganzir lynched toDay, making Aganzir innocent. But I suppose it's possible that it's a double bluff, and Agan is a wolf...
And who is under even less pressure than Boro was? Only Eomer is in a really secure position, and if he is a wolf, why doesn't the real hunter come forward?
Sorry I'm not being much help at the moment.

Rikae

07-14-2008, 05:32 PM

Ooops, I guess that wouldn't be me or Aganzir lynched toDAY, but rather toMorrow.

Nogrod

07-14-2008, 05:46 PM

So why Boro thought it a good idea to make a fake-revealment?

The strongest reason for me to believe him over Shasta yesterDay was the fact that there was no gain or at least no gain big enough for him and his mate that it would be wise for him to come forwards and get himself killed on the next Day with that show-off... It just looked totally insane.

Any gains they could have then?

I had started suspecting Boro openly earlier yesterDay but it was more probing on my suspicions and quite far from me going after him with a full crusade (I really thought I had better suspects at that time) - not to speak of the probability of you others taking my points and going forcefully against him. So it wasn't that he was afraid of a certain death and thence trying to minimize the casualties taking Shasta with him as a last possibility of harming us.

With the ranger away they certainly had a free kill last Night - and lynching the ranger would be the preferable option to the wolves against the need to try and kill him during the Night because of the self-defence -option (and yes, I had totally ignored the ruling and only realised - and checked - it after Boro himself started talking about that option not being used by him yet... oh, that cunning bastard... :mad:)

So, had Shasta been there they would have to have gambled whether he had defended himself already or not. That's 50-50 and they had already been denied once by Shasta - and if they tried others the ratio of ranger-defence vs. possible kills would go worse for them Night after Night. Would that be the psychological / logical factor that made Boro do his trick? Is that worth losing one of the two remaining wolves in a situation where there still are enough villagers to overpower a lonely wolf? I just can't bring myself to believe it so easily while I at the same time think that is the answer (and I was right then yesterDay on the self-defence -possibility being the clue!).

Or was it a panic reaction as Boro saw that his mate Aganzir was going to the gallows and he was getting suspected and that there were two known gifteds, and...? *pressure-pressure-pressure*

Somehow I think Boro is cool enough player not to act in panicky ways in that manner but that option should not be forgotten either.

Nogrod

07-14-2008, 07:04 PM

This is ridiculous...

Let the wolves roam then. :confused:

Okay. I'll come back soon myself and try to do something but it's getting very late here (4.12 AM right now), I just need to finish the Arda 2008 post first... and maybe go to sleep at an hour or another... :rolleyes:

Boromir88

07-15-2008, 03:22 AM

++Eomer

I'm the hunter.

Nogrod, I thought best case scenario it' 5-2 and we get Shasta at night, takes 2 days to win. Could I pull off the charade for another 2 days, afterall I hadn't even received a vote yet and somehow I wasn't dying at night? That was best case, what if blasted Shasta stops us again? What if Agan is lynched? And after doing some final number crunching when all is said in done, as you, my fellow hacker have so wonderfully explained it's 4-1 and still takes 2 days to win. Thus I reached the conclusion I had to stop Shasta during the day before she could stop us at night.

But I think the real deciding factor was you know how much fun I have being a known wolf for an entire day. :D I hope we can oblige you and make you all eat Shasta's words. RIP you played admirably, and even left a clue proving who you protected, but you know this village...overthinks everything. :rolleyes:

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2008, 05:41 AM

Well, I'm very happy you did all that, Boro; it just makes our job that bit easier. :)

++BOROMIR88

Yes, I'm finally here. Agree with Nogrod: let's discuss who might be the other wolf. That gives us 3 days rather than just 2.

I suspected Aganzir quite a lot, before this Ranger nonsense. I wonder: Formendacil was killed, despite getting 4 votes the other day. I wonder if wolfy-Aganzir, say, thought that only Form would remember that silliness, and took him out so that the village would forget.

Aganzir

07-15-2008, 06:54 AM

I'm here, but I lost net connection at home so my playing is now dependent on libraries (the one closest my home closes at 15 pm gmt even at its latest) and the goodwill of my friend, but I'm afraid I'm not able to be around till the deadline anymore, nor post as much as I would like to.

Now, onto yesterday.

*GRINS TO GIVE EVERYONE EVEN MORE CREEPS*

Her behavior toDay seems very much like a typical wolf who is under some pressure - her case aganst Kitanna seems rather forced (especially the "myself" bit) and the make a case, vote, and leave pattern is a tactic I've used myself as a cornered wolf - throwing something out there for the village to chew on (she even encourages us to look into it more) and then dropping out of sight and, hopefully, out of mind.
1. I've been suspecting Kitanna the whole game, wanted to make a case to see if my suspicion still hold and they did. I'm sorry if it looks forced to you. Maybe I have just decided that she must be a wolf and therefore refuse to take off the wolf-coloured glasses.
2. I would never, even as a wolf, lie about not being able to play. Maybe I should have posted in the admin thread "I'm going to spend the night at one of my friends' now that they all have returned from their summer cottages, oops now she called and said we're meeting like an hour earlier than we first planned, sorry I can't post more."?

Also, the way she deals with Shasta toDay is so ambiguous
I wasn't nearly convinced about his guilt, but people did bring up good points that pointed at it so I wasn't as sure about him as earlier. If everyone else is suspecting someone you find innocent, do you think that they or you is the most likely wrong?

Well, at least I can pat myself on the back for being right about him (I wasn't sure he was the ranger, but I was inclined to believe so since day 3 or 4).

it's hard to see the gain a Boro-wolf would have made by a fake-revealment toDay.
No it isn't. Can the wolves afford yet another missed kill? Can the wolves afford having two known innocents in a village that is getting smaller and smaller? To me it makes much more sense that one of them sacrificed himself to get the ranger lynched. Only why was it Boro, who hadn't been suspected practically at all? The only reasons that I can think of are that either his fellow was not around (which would point at Kitanna, me, or Eönwë I think), or that he didn't think his fellow would come out as the ranger (this might point at least at Nog and Rikae's innocence, who I'm rather sure could have done that, if wolves, though Nog was suspected very little too so I don't know).

**

++ Boro

**

I wonder if wolfy-Aganzir, say, thought that only Form would remember that silliness, and took him out so that the village would forget.
To be honest, I could well do that as a wolf - of course it's not forgotten, but it's maybe not remembered as vividly. Though I wonder if that's just what the wolves want the village to think.
Anyway, I'm darn glad Form was killed because I was becoming rather sure of his guilt when reading through yesterday.

Innocent
Eomer

Guilty
Kitanna

Of the rest, I would consider Nogrod and Eönwë more innocentish and Rikae more wolfish, though I'd like to take a look at all of them at some point.

**

Now, was Boro an original wolf or one turned later? Which ever he was, one thing is certain - Boro, Mith & one yet unknown were wolves together from day 3 on. I'm not going to continue my "people's relations with Nerwen & Mith" thing now (though I think I would if I had better chances to be online), but I'll rather go and see how Boro and Mith treated Kit, Nog and Eönwë.

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 06:55 AM

Quiet... *sigh*

Just to post something.

My prime suspects at the moment are:
Aganzir (for all that mentioned yesterDay)
Eönwë (because of Kath-kill)

I'm going downtown now but will come back later to actually try something more constructive fex. looking Agan again in the light of Boro actually being the wolf etc.

Oh and not to forget it... :D

++ Boromir 88

EDIT: X'd with Aganzir... wow, life in the thread!

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 07:00 AM

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2008, 07:44 AM

Let me also say: good point Aganzir, and one which makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe that's why Form was killed. He and Nogrod could be excused because they were both around and, indeed, more suspicious looking than Boro. Pity about Form but maybe this means Nogrod looks quite good.

Kitanna

07-15-2008, 08:54 AM

++ Boro

I go to work and return to find Boro has gone from ranger to hunter quite magically.

In regards to what is to be done tomorrow I'd like to look at Eonwe. Form is now dead after being considered fairly innocent and surviving a bandwagon. Eonwe survived two bandwagons and everyone seemed to push him out of mind after that. I think it would be a good idea to relook at Eonwe.

Kitanna

07-15-2008, 09:03 AM

Only why was it Boro, who hadn't been suspected practically at all? The only reasons that I can think of are that either his fellow was not around (which would point at Kitanna, me, or Eönwë I think), or that he didn't think his fellow would come out as the ranger (this might point at least at Nog and Rikae's innocence, who I'm rather sure could have done that, if wolves, though Nog was suspected very little too so I don't know).
But what if Boro acted alone? He revealed himself to ensure the death of Shasta, I think that much is clear. I don't think he did it as an attempt to save his last partner. If he wanted to do that he could simply have swayed the village another way. No one suspected him too much except Nogrod and in light of yesterday's performance he obviously can convince the village quite well.

Even today he comes out as our hunter. Not exactly going to work two days in a row, but I'm not so sure Boro was trying to save anyone from the gallows yesterday. I think it was to ensure the ranger was taken out of the picture before another night kill could be prevented for Boro and his partner.

Aganzir

07-15-2008, 09:54 AM

Sorry it took this long - I had to leave for a while.

Boro & Nog
Day 3 Boro found Nogrod trusty, but on day 4 his votes worried him. He said Mith's death would reveal a lot about him. Nogrod considered Boro innocent, but notified it was only a feeling from the previous day since someone had changed sides. He also said he tends to trust the judgement of Boro due to his record and the sense he had spoken.
On day 5 Nog said he's a bit concerned about Boro. After analysing the votes he felt a bit better about him.
Boro said if one vote for Mith was wolfish, he would imagine it to be Kit or Nog's. He made a big analysis of Nog, which gave the impression of Nog being innocent.
Nog was more inclined to trust Boro's hunter claim than Shasta's, and asks what a Borowolf would benefit from pretending to be the ranger.

Mith & Nog
On day 3 Nogrod was baffled about Mith, but notified that it was only a feeling from the previous days, since someone had changed sides.
His top suspects were Mith, Kitanna, Nilp, Eönwë, & Rikae, all of whom (except Nilp and Mith) are still alive. Mith suspected Nog and voted for him on day 3.
From day 4 on also Nog suspected Mith heavily, to the extent of being sure about her: "First of all you know you don't need to act on that promise as Mith is a wolf."

Conclusion: Nog looks pretty innocent. I can believe if he goes after his fellows when they are already suspected, but would he really be the first one to say someone is concerning him, even a little? Or be so much against Mith? Unless this is the pack's masterplan to help Nog survive till the end, but I'm not inclined to think so.

Boro & Kit
On day 4 Boro said he had that far thought Kit looked pretty innocent. He said he trusts Kitanna, and she doesn't look misleading. Also, if she was right that Mith was a wolf, he would probably trust her for the rest of the game.
On day 5 Kitanna was unsure of Boro (and Rikae) - of all the others she had an opinion. Boro said he has felt Kitanna's voting to be pretty safe, maybe just because she usually has to vote early. If a vote for Mith was wolfish, he would imagine it to be Kit or Nog's.

Mith & Kitanna
On day 4 Kitanna believed Dur had dreamed of Mith and found her a wolf, and voted for her.

Conclusion: Somehow that Boro's trusting Kit for the rest of the game if she's right about Mith makes me feel better about her. Otherwise, I don't really know.

Boro & Rikae
On day 3 Boro said Rikae looked the most innocent of those who had voted for EW while he and I had been talking about lynching Nerwen. On day 4 he was worried that Rikae had slipped into the background, but her voting didn't look suspicious, and that day there were far more wolfish people around than her. The same day Rikae said that that day Boro seemed quite sensible and sincere, at least.

Mith & Rikae
On day 4 Mith didn't look especially suspicious to Rikae, and she found herself wondering where the bandwagon came from the previous day. Voted for Form when it was all about Mith or Shasta being lynched.

Conclusion: They didn't speak much about one other, and if they did they found one other innocent. However, there's something I noticed about Rikae. After Shasta's revealing he voted for me, and was worried when it started to seem other people might not follow her; "Nog, are you saying that Shasta's revelation should let Aganzir off the hook?" Somehow it looks like she knew there would not be a competing claim (since Shasta was the ranger). If you have suspected him yourself, didn't it occur to you that he might have just been bluffing in order to out the ranger, since he was heavily suspected?

Boro & Eönwë
On day 3 he said he may have to start reconsidering his thoughts about him, since he had voted for EW while Boro and I were talking about lynching Nerwen. On day 4 Boro was baffled about Eönwë, but hinted at the direction that he might be a wolf ("An apologetic wolf is not unheard of."). As far as I can see, Eönwë didn't really mention Boro.

Mith & Eönwë
On day 4 Eönwë said he didn't know why he had voted for Nilp, and had he been there later, he would probably have voted for Mith. He also voted for her that day.

Conclusion: Could be fellow wolves or could be not. Somehow, Eönwë seems to avoid mentioning Boro, who didn't speak about him more than in the analysis, which he made of everyone. Eönwë says he could have voted for Mith also the previous day, but voted for Nilp instead, for no reason, "I'll explain when I can," (when it was either Mith or Nilp who would be lynched) - the wolves had probably decided to sacrifice her after that.

**

I feel a bit better about Kitanna, a bit worse about Rikae, and worse about Eönwë.

**

Whoops, a correction to my last post. Eönwë was indeed around after Shasta's revelation (but did he vote? No? Why?). However, Boro might not have counted on him going to reveal.

**

I'll be leaving again, and I'm not sure if I'll be back anymore today.

edit: xed with Eomer and two Kits

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2008, 09:54 AM

I've just been panicking slightly because I thought we had only one chance to get things right tomorrow. Luckily I had forgotten about one of our quieter players, Eonwe. Great relief! :D

I should not speculate on who I find most suspicious today, because I don't really want the wolves to come after me (known innocent will make our odds much nicer on that last day). So I don't want to give the wolves any part of my mind.

Must dash now but will be back a couple of hours before deadline.

Aganzir

07-15-2008, 10:04 AM

I'm not so sure Boro was trying to save anyone from the gallows yesterday. I think it was to ensure the ranger was taken out of the picture before another night kill could be prevented for Boro and his partner.
And I'm not thinking so, either. I was rather wondering why it was Boro, whose wolfishness might not have been discovered too soon had he not done it - didn't he trust his fellow wolf would pose as the hunter to get Shasta killed, or was his fellow maybe not around to do that? That's what had me wondering.

Also, I think it would be useful if someone could check how those still alive possibly changed their opinions about Boro after day 2. It's either him or the one yet undiscovered who was turned on night 3, I'm pretty sure of that.

Okay, leaving now.

edit: xed with Eomer

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 01:52 PM

Just a short one here...

I like the way Aganzir works now - and seems to make sense. And what she said affirms some bad feelings I've had with Rikae.

Now try to bear with me. I'll try to explain.

There's in a way no problem with her, she plays nice, considerate, reasonable... but somehow I'm not able to trust her - it's like with Kitanna... I could say the same of her as well.

But I'm also still a bit worried about Eönwë. The kill of Kath (which took two Nights) is kind of out of the blue looking at her posts - unless she hit it right with her "this is totally random, hey it's Day1, totally random..." etc. behaviour. I'd think wolves like Mith or Boro would jump on that (not discussing now who the original wolves were, and anyhow at least one of them was) and think her a seer who had luckily got it right...

Arrgghh!

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-15-2008, 02:38 PM

Aganzir's post just there (the detailed one) is a good read. Reminds me of that post by Boro I praised a couple of days ago. What does that tell me? :D

Nogrod, I too am seeing a lot of sense in what Aganzir posts; this is why I'm especially sensitive to the idea of her stringing us along. I agree with her the first few days; then she looks really suspicious; now she speaks more sense again. She's tricksy.

Could go either way with her. ;)

No indication of who I'm going to hunt (and not only because I have absolutely no idea yet who I'll choose!). I know I wasn't able to contribute today but I'll hopefully be able to do a lot more tomorrow (in the night -- I need to look at the Formendacil stuff) and the next day too -- or, failing that, kill the wolf who dares disturb my slumber.

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 02:59 PM

Okay. Here are the votes (Days 1 and 2 by courtesy of Mr. Nilp Felagund).

I've bolded the votes of those yet alive.

I've italicized the votes of those known to be wolves at least at some point of the game (so not taking sides to the question who was turned)

Sally's votes are underlined - she had bad intentions but only the knowledge of an ordo...

Votes from Day1

Form - Nogrod (Nogrod - 1)
Kit - Nerwen (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1)
sally - VI (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1)
Erenor - sally (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1)
Eomer - Mith (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1, Mith - 1)
Eönwë - Mith (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1, Mith - 2)
Kath - Eönwë (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 1)
THE Ka - Rikae (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 1, Rikae - 1)
Durelin - Kit (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 1, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 1, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Boro - VI (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 2, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 1, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Nilp - Eönwë (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 1, VI - 2, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 2, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Rikae - Nerwen (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 2, VI - 2, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 2, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
EW - VI (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 2, VI - 3, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 2, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Nerwen - Eönwë (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 2, VI - 3, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 3, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Agan - VI (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 2, VI - 4, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 3, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)
Nogrod - VI (Nogrod - 1, Nerwen - 2, VI - 5, sally - 1, Mith - 2, Eönwë - 3, Rikae - 1, Kit - 1)

Votes from Day2

Nilp - Eönwë (Eönwë - 1)
Kit - Agan (Eönwë - 1, Agan - 1)
Erenor - EW (Eönwë - 1, Agan - 1, EW - 1)
THE Ka - Eönwë (Eönwë - 2, Agan - 1, EW - 1)
EW - Eönwë (Eönwë - 3, Agan - 1, EW - 1)
Form - EW (Eönwë - 3, Agan - 1, EW - 2)
Eomer - EW (Eönwë - 3, Agan - 1, EW - 3)
Shasta - Eönwë (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 3)
Eönwë - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 4)
Rikae - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 5)
Nerwen - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 6)
Sally - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 7)
Boro - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 8)
Agan - EW (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 9)
Nogrod - Kit (Eönwë - 4, Agan - 1, EW - 9, Kit - 1)

Votes from Day 3

Aganzir -> Nilp
Mith -> Nogrod
Rikae -> Formendacil
Nilp -> null vote
Kitanna -> Eönwë
Eomer -> Nilp (Nilp2, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1)
Shasta -> Eomer (Nilp2, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer1)
Eönwë -> Nilp (Nilp3, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer1)
Form -> Eomer (Nilp3, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer2)
Boro -> Mith (Nilp3, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer2, Mith1)
Dury -> Mith (Nilp3, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer2, Mith2)
Nog -> Mith (Nilp3, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer2, Mith3)
Sally -> Nilp (Nilp4, Nogrod1, Form1, Eönwë1, Eomer2, Mith3)

From Day 4

Kitanna – Mith
Eomer – Shasta
Mith – Shasta (Mith1, Shasta2)
Eönwë – Mith (Mith2, Shasta2)
Rikae – Formendacil (Mith2, Shasta2, Form1)
Sally – Formendacil (Mith2, Shasta2, Form2)
Nogrod – Mith (Mith3, Shasta2, Form2)
Form – Mith (Mith4, Shasta2, Form2)
Boro – Shasta (Mith4, Shasta3, Form2)
Aganzir – Form (Mith4, Shasta3, Form3)
Shasta – Form (Mith4, Shasta3, Form4)

Day 5

Aganzir -> Kitanna
Kitanna – Shasta
Shasta reveals
Rikae -> Aganzir
Boro “reveals”
Boro -> Shasta (Kitanna1, Shasta2, Aganzir1)
Shasta -> Boro (Kitanna1, Shasta2, Aganzir1, Boro1)
Eomer -> Shasta (Kitanna1, Shasta3, Aganzir1, Boro1)
Form -> Shasta (Kitanna1, Shasta4, Aganzir1, Boro1)
Nogrod -> Shasta (Kitanna1, Shasta5, Aganzir1, Boro1)

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 03:00 PM

Aganzir's post just there (the detailed one) is a good read. Reminds me of that post by Boro I praised a couple of days ago. What does that tell me? :DExactly my thoughts as well... and all the effort she needs to go through posting only from a library...

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 03:17 PM

I didn't find Eönwë voting yesterDay. Just a RL problem or frightened to take sides?

Eönwë has voted for Mith twice though (Days 1 and 4).

Rikae voted for Nerwen to bring her even with VI, Mith and Eönwë on Day2. After that she has been after Form and now Aganzir...

If there is a turned wolf alive I'd say Rikae would fit the description... and her crusade to spread the votes away from Mith would fit the picture.

With Agan's votes I'm just disagreeing! She has played it very safe and it all looks cunningly so - the thing she accuses Kit of - and only lately has been a deciding factor... Hard to say now.

Kitanna has voted for two different wolves...

Aganzir

07-15-2008, 03:21 PM

There's in a way no problem with her, she plays nice, considerate, reasonable... but somehow I'm not able to trust her - it's like with Kitanna... I could say the same of her as well.
I had the same problem with Rikae on the first days, but then I just found myself agreeing with her so much that I couldn't really suspect her anymore... I should probably go back and see which things we agreed on (like, was she, too, sure about Nilp's guilt?).

And somehow I'm not so sure about Kitanna anymore. She has started to look like the kind of person whom I always suspect, rather than a real wolf. I don't know - somehow I'm just more concerned about Rikae and Eönwë now.

and all the effort she needs to go through posting only from a library...
Actually, I haven't had to go to the library yet - only one of my best friends is getting totally annoyed with me hanging on her laptop, at her house, typing ww posts for hours and being ready "soon, I just must do yet this" (she's nodding contently at this passage).

**

My list has got a new look.

Guilty, from the most to the least guilty-looking
Rikae. The reasons she's going after me aren't pretty convincing - on the first glance it looks like they are proper ones, but they don't bear further looking (my case looks forced, that grinning episode is creepy, whatever), they're just nicely phrased. Plus the things I mentioned in that post of mine which handled Mith & Boro's connections.
Eönwë. When did he become silent? After day 2 or 3? Where is he now? I think his connections with Mith and Boro are a bit fishy. I remember considering him innocent earlier, a great part of my reasoning being that a newbie wolf would probably be more apparent. However, I'm not so sure about him anymore.
Kitanna. I don't really know about her. I'm not nearly as confident about her as yesterday, but I'm not ready to consider her innocent yet, either.

Innocent
Eomer
Nogrod. If he's a wolf I promise to do the dishes for him when we go to their summer cottage because then I totally deserve it. :p

Okay, I'm heading home now.

edit: xed with Nogrods

Aganzir

07-15-2008, 03:24 PM

With Agan's votes I'm just disagreeing! She has played it very safe and it all looks cunningly so
Guess how stupid I'm considering myself when looking at my votes.

Rikae

07-15-2008, 03:36 PM

Somehow it looks like she knew there would not be a competing claim (since Shasta was the ranger). If you have suspected him yourself, didn't it occur to you that he might have just been bluffing in order to out the ranger, since he was heavily suspected?
I don't even understand this. Why should I have? I didn't even realize the ranger could protect himself until after Boro mentioned it, and I just assumed any false ranger would be discovered by his survival, as usual. If Shasta were a false ranger, I certainly didn't see any reason why the real ranger should put himself on the wolves' menu that night just to reveal a wolf who would be caught anyway. I still didn't understand it after Boro's revelation.
Now, why are you seemingly convinced that what Boro did made perfect sense - so much so that I should expect someone to do it, and so much that he could have expected his fellow wolf to do it if that wolf were around? To me, his stunt looks, frankly, nutty.

Eönwë

07-15-2008, 03:38 PM

First of all, the obvious:

++Boromir88

Eönwë

07-15-2008, 03:41 PM

Hmm... Have I become a chief suspect now?

Whoops, a correction to my last post. Eönwë was indeed around after Shasta's revelation (but did he vote? No? Why?).

My internet died on me, just as I was about to post. Not my fault.

Eönwë (because of Kath-kill)
And how am I connected to the Kath kill, someone please tell me.

Eönwë

07-15-2008, 03:43 PM

The only problem is that now we have no ranger and no seer, so all our defensive powers are gone, and the wolves are free to do what they want, without being stopped or seen. That's obviously why they killed Shasta.
So that they could be free.

Rikae

07-15-2008, 03:47 PM

Eönwë, you mean so he or she could be free? Because here goes the second (third) wolf:

++Boro

Eönwë

07-15-2008, 03:54 PM

Eönwë, you mean so he or she could be free? Because here goes the second (third) wolf

Well, yes and no. Last night they were free, but from today onwards, there will only be one who is.

Boromir88

07-15-2008, 04:07 PM

If there is a turned wolf alive I'd say Rikae would fit the description... and her crusade to spread the votes away from Mith would fit the picture.~Nogrod
But why would a wolf Rikae be that obvious in defending a wolf? And one that was going to get lynched?

RIP Mith, I'm sorry for stabbing you in the back but it was Nogrod who turned the knife.

Eomer have you considered that Aganzir has had good coaching overnight?

Kitanna you know my mind too well to be innocent.

And how am I connected to the Kath kill, someone please tell me.~Eonwe
Because I told you to kill her.

Boromir88

07-15-2008, 04:29 PM

Now I bow out and say my good bye. I have some last words for all of you. Do I get something for being a good wolf and going out nicely?

To Kitanna: Go all the way for me and your fellows.

To Agan :D

To Eonwe: Do exactly as we discussed and you won't fail.

To Rikae: It's been an honour

To Nogrod: You are the biggest backstabber I have ever seen.

And last but not least, to Eomer: You sly hunter you, my only regret has been not killing you 2 nights ago. I didn't have the guts.

Nogrod

07-15-2008, 04:51 PM

Hey Boro! We're not listening to you any more, as sad as it is... :D

And how am I connected to the Kath kill, someone please tell me.The only post Kath made on Day1 that said something else than "I'm busy" or "Just coming in" was this:
Random vote because hey, it's Day 1. So truly random, I'm voting for the last person to post.

++EONWEAnd after that the wolves tried to kill her. They indeed spent two Nights to do that (okay, it was a safe kill the next Night but anyway).

So were they thinking Kath was a seer (she doesn't normally vote like that on Day1 even if she tends to hide in the shadows anyway) as she hit it right? I think players like Boro or Mith would have thought of that - as I said already earlier. And I know it from experience that the wolves will try to kill anyone they even remotely think is the seer - how discriminating that might be to anyone of them - as the first thing. The seer is the dangerous opponent and s/he should be killed a.s.a.p. whatever thew cost.

So that's why...

Looking at the latest posts I must say I'm really torn between Agan and Rikae. They both look considerate and sensible.

Maybe Agan's actual involvement speaks bad for her and vice cersa? Then again I'd hate that kind of a conclusion as I myself think an innocent should play hard and full and give all s/he has to give for the common cause. The most, I would hate to lose to a sneaky "non-committal" wolf who just snaps in and doesn't really care to actively play... :(

This is hard indeed.

But it's good we have a wolf to Day, it's only toMorrow we'll have the hard times... those of us who will take part in it.

Brinniel

07-15-2008, 05:07 PM

Deadline. Everyone silent!

Boromir88 has been lynched. Ehm...I might not have the narration up for awhile, but all you really need to know is that Boromir was a wolf....which was already pretty obvious.

Night 7 has begun...and I promise to get the narration up sometime tonight.

Brinniel

07-16-2008, 01:28 AM

The day passed by rather slowly and quietly for the remaining BDers. After killing Shasta the ranger yesterday, the truth behind Boromir’s identity became apparent and even Boromir didn’t bother hiding it as he showed up for the day just as furry as he was the night before.

So the BDers sent Boromir to the timeout corner to think about his actions while they talked about him.
“Boromir is obviously a nutter to reveal like he did,” said Rikae.
“It makes perfect sense to me,” Eönwë argued. “The wolves wanted to rid themselves of an extra gifted so they could fly free….like birds….”
“Instead of speculating, why don’t you just ask me why I did it?” Boromir called out from his corner.
“Because we aren’t listening to you anymore, wolf,” Nogrod shouted back. “Now turn back around and think about what you’ve done.”
Boromir muttered to himself as the other BDers huddled together and changed the subject to who the fourth wolf could possibly be.

Eventually the discussions died down and the hour arrived to decide the fate of Boromir.
“So Boro, have you thought about your actions?” asked Eomer.
“Yes,” he replied.
“And are you sorry for what you’ve done?”
“Of course not. Some of those BDers have provided quite the tasty meal.”
“Well, I guess we’re gonna have to kill you then,” said Kitanna.
“Oh c’mon, give me a break,” Boromir whined. “I’ve been a good wolf. I confessed.”
“So what…you want a cookie?” Aganzir responded.
Boromir grinned back at her, showing off his giant wolf teeth.
“Ugh, let’s just kill him already,” said Eönwë.

Nogrod volunteered to perform the execution. He picked up an ax and separated the wolf’s head from its body in one clean blow.
“Hurray!” cried the others as blood splattered onto them. “More blood, more blood!”
And Nogrod continued to hack apart the dead wolf limb from limb. After he was done, the BDers dumped Boromir into the fire pit and Aganzir lit a match. The remains burst into flames and that evening the BDers celebrated with a bonfire. They danced, sang camp songs, and roasted marshmellows. But as the flames died down, the sound of Boromir’s evil laughter erupted from the fire pit.

After all, though the BDers had caught yet another werewolf, there was still one more among them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably
Eomer of the Rohirrim~easily-offended trendy
Nogrod~the wanna-be moderator
Eönwë~conspiracy theorist

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)
Boromir88~ the one upper~made excellent firewood (hacker/wolf)

--------------------------------------------------------

It is currently Night 7.

To the remaining wolf and hunter, please send in your choices if you have not yet done so. Everyone else remain quiet.

Brinniel

07-16-2008, 05:00 PM

The hunter had trouble sleeping for the last few nights. He had been kept restless wondering when the werewolves would come for him. And now with only one left, it was more important than ever for him to do his job. So when he heard movement come from outside his tent, the hunter was ready. The wolf had finally come for him, but he would not go down without a fight. So the hunter put on his ninja mask and picked up his sword, sneaking out of the backside of the tent. This time he would have the element of surprise.

The wolf opened the tent door only to find the inside empty. Where was he? Then from behind came a “Hiya!” and the wolf suddenly felt a blow to the head. The wolf stumbled, but managed to dodge the next blow. And at last, the wolf and hunter came face to face.

The hunter ninja-attacked his enemy, while the wolf fought back using its supreme kung fu skills. The two went at it for much of the night, creating the ultimate martial arts action scene. Finally, the hunter caught the wolf off guard and grabbed it by the neck.
“Aha! I’ve got you now!” he triumphed. But suddenly his expression changed to one of surprise as he looked into the werewolf’s eyes. “Wait a minute….you aren’t the one I expected.”
The werewolf laughed at the hunter. Taking advantage of his confusion, the wolf wiggled free of the hunter’s grip, then sunk its teeth deep into his throat.

Tonight, victory would belong to the werewolves.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The next morning, the BDers woke to discover the entire camp left disheveled ; it was evident that there had been a struggle the previous night. But in the center of the camp lay only one body—the bloodied hunter, Eomer. On his forehead was written one word: LOSER.

With no more moderators left to help them, the battle was now left between the ordinary BDers and the remaining werewolf.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably
Nogrod~the wanna-be moderator
Eönwë~conspiracy theorist

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)
Boromir88~ the one upper~made excellent firewood (hacker/wolf)
Eomer of the Rohirrim~ easily-offended trendy~his ninja moves could not match kung fu werewolf (moderator hunter)

---------------------------------------------------------

Day 7 has begun.

The remaining five may now discuss.

Nogrod

07-16-2008, 05:29 PM

Quite a move!

Now this suggests me a two things to begin with...

First of all the wolf is either incredibly bold or then felt her/himself relatively safe to do that. Killing a known innocent is good politics for a wolf when the village becomes smaller and smaller anyway.

Secondly I think this lessens my suspicions on Aganzir a bit as looking at Eomer's posting from yesterDay she would have had all the reason to fear Eomer was targetting her.

I'll go and check Eomer's posts a bit to get a clearer view.

PS. I'm going to a theater festival for two days tomorrow in the countryside and need to go to sleep a bit earlier than usual during the vacation - and I'm going to vote early toDay for the same reason as I'm not sure there is an internet connection there.

Nogrod

07-16-2008, 05:40 PM

Okay. Here's what we have from Eomer yesterDay.
(These are not individuals posts as such but selected parts from them which in a way or other deal with his suspicions or intended actions)

I suspected Aganzir quite a lot, before this Ranger nonsense. I wonder: Formendacil was killed, despite getting 4 votes the other day. I wonder if wolfy-Aganzir, say, thought that only Form would remember that silliness, and took him out so that the village would forget.

Let me also say: good point Aganzir, and one which makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe that's why Form was killed. He and Nogrod could be excused because they were both around and, indeed, more suspicious looking than Boro. Pity about Form but maybe this means Nogrod looks quite good.

I've just been panicking slightly because I thought we had only one chance to get things right tomorrow. Luckily I had forgotten about one of our quieter players, Eonwe. Great relief!

I should not speculate on who I find most suspicious today, because I don't really want the wolves to come after me (known innocent will make our odds much nicer on that last day). So I don't want to give the wolves any part of my mind.

Aganzir's post just there (the detailed one) is a good read. Reminds me of that post by Boro I praised a couple of days ago. What does that tell me?

Nogrod, I too am seeing a lot of sense in what Aganzir posts; this is why I'm especially sensitive to the idea of her stringing us along. I agree with her the first few days; then she looks really suspicious; now she speaks more sense again. She's tricksy.

Could go either way with her.

No indication of who I'm going to hunt (and not only because I have absolutely no idea yet who I'll choose!). I know I wasn't able to contribute today but I'll hopefully be able to do a lot more tomorrow (in the night -- I need to look at the Formendacil stuff) and the next day too -- or, failing that, kill the wolf who dares disturb my slumber.

A few comments to follow... in a moment...

Nogrod

07-16-2008, 06:16 PM

He talked the most of his suspicions of Aganzir and went a little to and fro with it (why her sensible posts could still be wolfy).

He seemed to imply he thought I was innocentish.

He mentioned that he had forgotten Eönwë.

He didn't mention Rikae or Kitanna at all.

He underlined it twice that he shouldn't speculate about his real suspicions as not to give the wolves a hint about whom is he going to hunt.

The earlier Days do not give much in way of helping...

On Day3 he had this list which I just found too amusing not to post it.

Innocent
Aganzir
Boromir
Rikae
Eonwe
KitannaSo all the remaining players - except me who was under the header "dodgy" - and Borowolf of course. :rolleyes:

But basically Eomer just ranted with Shasta and speculated about Boro's revealment. So nothing that would help us much.

THe only post where he speculates about someone still living is from Day5 where he says.
Aganzir and Shasta look very evil and wolvish to me.

I'm not sure both Shasta and Aganzir would have voted Formendacil at the end (were they both wolves). I'm thinking only one is. Actually, that's a good spot Agan; I remember Shasta defending Mith there. I must say, though, that your case against Kitanna does not convince me. It seems a bit too ... constructed, if you like.So only confirming us that he suspected Aganzir the last Days (but not on the first).

I didn't go back to Days1 and 2 as I thought it wouldn't help us anymore. But if someone has time...

My thoughts then.

Being a little easier with Aganzir I'd say that the last remaining wolf is one of Rikae, Kitanna or Eönwë. They all seemed to have reason to believe they were safe from Eomer's hunting.

I've already voiced my suspicion of Eönwë as Kath's out of the blue "This is soo random!" -vote on him on Day1 could have alarmed the wolves to attack her as the possible seer.

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with Rikae. She feels calculated and her Form bandwagon almost saved Mith. Then again it seems I have no clearer points and would love to trust her in the end game. She would definitively one able to take the risk and kill Eomer though...

Kitanna I suspected a lot in the early Days for being all too careful but then again she has voted "well" all the time... Even too well to be an innocent without knowledge? Her station as always voting the first or second kind of gives her an advance for ducking suspicions.

Hard to say.

Or then Aganzir is just the most unscrupulous and bold wolf who loves to live dangerously...

Kitanna

07-16-2008, 07:32 PM

Nogrod

07-17-2008, 01:47 AM

Oh my... one post. :(

Well, I guess it was a fool's hope in the beginning you would flood the thread while I slept...

Okay. I need to go now and as I can't promise I find a net connection in the evening I will vote as well.

++ Eönwë

It looks to me the most straightforward choice as it would explain why the wolves picked Kath in the beginning. Also he was playing quite suspiciously in the beginning (possibly almost too suspiciously to be a wolf indeed which worries me a bit) but has clearly played more easily after that which could suggest some guidance from the fellow-wolves...

Kitanna

07-17-2008, 07:33 AM

Also he was playing quite suspiciously in the beginning (possibly almost too suspiciously to be a wolf indeed which worries me a bit) but has clearly played more easily after that which could suggest some guidance from the fellow-wolves...

I was thinking about that myself. I think Eonwe was innocent at the beginning and then was changed. That would explain his often frantic obsession with the bandwagons that started against him (what innocent wouldn't be terrified?) He was absolutely horrified that Kath "started" a bandwagon against him and didn't buy into her random vote. I think he was changed and then slowly changed his playing style so as not to arise any more suspicions. His playing style changed over time and after people starting pushing him down on their suspect lists. He moved out of sight and mind and all the while his posts seem to have become more helpful and less frantic. Of course Eonwe may just buckle under pressure.

Kitanna

07-17-2008, 09:16 AM

The only person left now that I have given no real thought to is Rikae. I stated the other day I had paired her with Boro in the "unsure" group. In light of Boro's role and the fact there are so few of us left it is clear it would be unwise and potentially dangerous not to have a look at Rikae. I am going to go through her posts and get through as much as I can before I go off to work.

As of right now I suspect Eonwe the most and like most other days I'm going back and forth on how I feel about Nogrod and Agan. Though for the most part I am inclined to believe Nogrod is innocent. Agan, well I've been going back and forth since day one. I say guilty because I am not wholly convinced of innocence. But for now I will hold off deciding anything until I have a look at Rikae.

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 09:17 AM

Now, why are you seemingly convinced that what Boro did made perfect sense - so much so that I should expect someone to do it, and so much that he could have expected his fellow wolf to do it if that wolf were around? To me, his stunt looks, frankly, nutty.
Because attacking Shasta in the night would have been pretty risky - a missed kill this late in the game when there are so few of us left is not what the wolves want.
I am convinced that what Boro did made sense, but I don't know why it was just Boro who did it, given that he was one of the least suspected. But I can't see what's nutty in getting the ranger lynched, even at the cost of sacrificing himself, when the other option was to have a known innocent in the village, possibly for several days (since who knows if Shasta had gambled and not protected himself the first night after his revelation?).

But why would a wolf Rikae be that obvious in defending a wolf? And one that was going to get lynched?
Because no one would think she were.

So were they thinking Kath was a seer (she doesn't normally vote like that on Day1 even if she tends to hide in the shadows anyway) as she hit it right?
Or did they want a random kill that would help to frame innocent Eönwë? Or was Kath just totally random?

Maybe Agan's actual involvement speaks bad for her and vice cersa?
Haven't I been actually involved until now? :eek:

**

I've reached the point of not trusting anyone.

If anyone else but Eomer had died in the night, I would be gunning for Nogrod now. No one seems to be suspecting him but he's still alive.

Rikae just feels wrong.

Somehow I'm feeling a bit better about Kitanna (and now, if you're the wolf, I don't know what I'll do when the game ends :p).

And I would really love to see Eönwë post more today. Your opinions, whatever, just post.

**

I could try to do something useful and go through Rikae's posting.

edit: xed with Kitanna. Great - I'll do something else then. :p Like, check Eönwë's posts.

Kitanna

07-17-2008, 10:11 AM

Day 1:

Red

Kitanna
The Elf Warrior

Orange

Nerwen
Aganzir
Sally
Eönwë

Yellow

Shasta
Boro
Kath
Durelin
Eomer
Nogrod
Sixth
THE Ka
Form
Nilp
Mith
McCaber

Green

Rikae
Her first suspicions were as such. She seemed to have a gut feeling about EW and was agreeing with Nogrod about my vote from Day 1. She ends up voting for one of her oranges though. Her vote for Nerwen makes sense in that she didn't like Nerwen's Form/Agan/Nilp brawl theory and she thought it was a premature wolf move.

But what about her red suspects? What had changed and why did Nerwen's not answering of her question push her high enough on Rikae's suspect list to be voted for?

Day 2:

She returns to suspecting EW above all others. She defends Mith against the Mith voters (Eonwe and Eomer) from Day 1. Because of the Ranger save she feels better about Nogrod. She makes a few comments regarding Eonwe's vote for Mith as a cross post or maybe a lie about a cross-post and/or that sort of speculation. Mostly it boils down to Rikae not thinking Eonwe was all that well reasoned in voting for Mith.

If EW doesn't start speaking up in a helpful and non-evil manner very soon, I suggest we lynch him. He's contributing very little and what he does contribute exudes evil.
Granted quiet villagers (whether quiet for RL reasons or because they're hiding something) are dangerous. But in EW's case he could well have been a wolf kill that left few tracks, like many of the early kills were. What does that say about Rikae? I have no idea. Her vote from Day 2 broke the EW/Eonwe tie, but I don't find it overwhelming suspicious because it was clear from Day 1 she was going to vote for EW at some point or another.

Day 3:

She has one post where she votes for Form on a hunch. Because of RL issues she was unable to explain her hunch at the time.

Day 4:

Formendacil~I thought him likely to choose Kath as a kill yesterDay, and he seems to be taking a very controlled, rather ... hypnotic? ... tone. I just have a bad feeling about him.
Here she explains a bit about Form.

She also lists her other suspicions in the same post.
Kitanna~eh. I'm still uneasy about her, especially because of the way Shasta and Formendacil dismiss her.
Aganzir~Neg-repping and spamming do go well together...
Shastanis Althreduin~ I will have to look at him more closely. Really, he needs to be properly analysed, though I'm not sure I have time.
Some she has flying under her radar.
satansaloser2005~Not getting much of a read on her, as usual.
THE Ka ~ No idea. Flying under the radar a bit.
Eönwë ~ Another that has fallen off the radar. There is far too much of this going on...

She defends Mith a bit.
Mithalwen~Not looking especially suspicious to me at the moment, and I find myself wondering where that bandwagon yesterday came from.
She also states a belief in Boro's innocence.
Boromir88~ToDay he seems quite sensible and sincere, at least.

Next she does a Shasta analysis and finds him less wolfish than before. Is not pleased with how the votes have been narrowed to Shasta and Mith. Doesn't feel inclined to vote for either. Feels nervous about Nogrod and I and entertains the idea Eomer may be the spammer.

Eh? No one else found you suspicious yesterDay - if I thought you were doing something obviously suspicious, I would have pointed it out, even in the limited time I had - but I merely had a bad feeling. It was pretty obvious you weren't going to be lynched.
And I still find you suspicious toDay. I was just waiting to see if my suspicions would be confirmed by your behavior, and... guess what?
Responds to a Form query. Again she talks of her hunch and how Form has in a way done nothing to stop her suspicions of him. For the second day in a row she votes for him.

Day 5:

With Mith a confirmed wolf she apologizes to Form about her hunch vote and says either Shasta or Agan are wolves because of the way they followed her vote. Here is where I find myself confused. The reference to Agan's grinning. Creepy? Perhaps. But I never found it suspicious. And if I'm not mistaken (I have no time to check) others found it creepy as well.
She states Shasta's was the vote that almost saved Mith. She wonders why he voted Form and not Mith. She finds Agan more wolfish though and believes her reasoning for suspecting me is forced. She also believes the way Agan deals with Shasta is to ambiguous.
She explains what she found creepy about Agan's grinning and votes for her. She seems to believe Boro was the Ranger or at least her questioning his "ranger save" of Night 2 suggests she did.

Day 6:

Not a whole lot that points toward guilty or innocent.

Now what to think of Rikae.

Things that point toward innocence
She votes for Form two days in a row. I don't feel that's a wolfish thing to do. It could be, but such a move doesn't feel overwhelming evil.

Her votes and suspicions have been pretty constant since Day 1.

Things that point toward guilt
After Form survived a bandwagon she was willing to completely drop her hunch about him. Form was in no way confirmed an innocent at that point, I find it fishy she was so ready to apologize and forget him.

I don't understand why she voted Nerwen on Day 1 over EW who she seemed pretty sure was a newbie wolf. Or even me for that matter. We were both in her red zone and she didn't vote for us.

Things that could go either way
Her defense of Mith. I'm a bit rusty with WW, but in my experience most wolves don't consistently defend their mates. They distance themselves or suspect them just enough. That's why her defense of Mith is tricky. She could be an innocent defending someone she felt was not guilty, but just as easily she could have been fooling us all so if Mith died she wouldn't look bad.

She was looking to rid the village of the somewhat unhelpful EW. Again tricky because it can be annoying to have a player who innocent or guilty rarely contributes. Her constant suspicion of him and her vote fit together nicely. Could be innocent, but then again her vote placement was pretty convenient on Day 2 which could have been her grand design or maybe it was a coincidence.

Hard to say with Rikae. Some things look innocent enough, but there are a few things that feel wrong.

Kitanna

07-17-2008, 10:23 AM

I need to go and get ready for work.

++Eonwe

His behavior from Day 1 - now suggests to me that he could well be the changed wolf. His early posts suggest to me an innocent who just wants to survive. But as the game progressed he became less noticeable and everyone was shifting their suspicions elsewhere by Day 3, so he had a chance to gradually make the shift in his playing style from innocent to wolf without anyone really noticing.

As for everyone else I'd say Rikae looks the worst. But for all three it's hard for me to say. Somethings look innocent, but other things look downright sinister. However, this must be one day at a time.

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 10:59 AM

On day 1 Eönwë accuses Nerwen purely in character, and says she isn't doing anything useful, suggesting she's the spammer (though he also suggests that Nilp or Form is the spammer). He's a bit jumpy and says my accidental twisting of his words sounds wolfish.
He voted for Mith that day because she looked like she was half hiding behind her character and her attitude seemed slightly suspicious.

He continues being jumpy on day 2, but innocentishly so. He didn't suspect Mith as much anymore then - he thought she needed monitoring, but there were much more suspicious people around. He found EW the most suspicious for voting him without a reason after two others had done so, although he mentioned that Ka didn't seem to suspect him, either, but voted still. He voted for EW, and commented it seemed like he had become a suspicious character lately.

If he was a wolf from the beginning, I'll eat my head. There's something genuinely honest in those posts of his, and besides he voted for Mith on day 1. I don't want to underestimate a possible Eönwolf, but it would be an extremely bold move to vote for his fellow on day 1 in his first game as a wolf.

Okay, then day 3 when the new wolf was turned.

He's seemingly surprised by the Kath kill, but agrees that she left little trails. He thinks the extra wolf might not be easy to find, but hope shouldn't be abandoned. In his opinion, the person with the biggest change was Shasta, who was, if not silent, at least laid back, but was on day 3 lively and engaged in conversation. It didn't mean he was wolfish, though - the change might have been just because of time restraints.
Then he disappeared for hours and was back to vote for Nilp (who had 2 votes already), promising to explain it when he can.

On day 4 Eönwë replied to Boro's question about Dur saying she wants to look at Kit, asking if he had considered that Durelin would have just wanted to hide her identity by not naming the wolves, since if she had dreamed of her, a radical change of mind would look suspicious. This looks unlikely to me, and though I agreed with him then, my suspicion on Kitanna has lessened since. Somehow he looks like he's trying not to let suspicions on Kitanna fall.

I asked him to explain his vote for Nilp since he had promised to do it, and he said he didn't really know why he voted - it was more of a feeling. If he had been there at deadline, he would probably have voted for Mith. This is the first thing about him that I think is a bit suspicious. Mith had attracted so much suspicion on day 3 that it would make sense if the wolves had decided to sacrifice her after that. Eönwë might have wanted to make himself look better by saying that - but on the other hand he had been suspicious of her from the beginning (although he didn't mention her at all on day 3). Though if I remember correctly, Mith didn't have any votes by the time Eönwë voted whereas also Eönwë himself had one, so his Nilp vote might also have been for self-preservation.
In the same post he said that Shasta and Eomer seem suspicious, but he hopes they are "as innocent as they are entertaining".

He suspects Eomer for not voting Mith:
And how come Eomer is not voting Mithalwen?

He kept on saying how suspicious he was of her on the first two days, but then on the next two he votes Nilp and today he votes Shasta, specifically avoiding voting Mith. Is he our innocent-turned-wolf?
Now, now... There should be nothing suspicious in changing one's mind. This post suggests Eomer became a wolf and was informed Mith is his fellow. Eönwë accuses someone of not voting for a wolf before Mith's role is revealed to the village. Whoa.
Thus far I've been more inclined to think Eönwë could be innocent, after all, but not anymore after this one. Or, say, his innocence became just much less likely.

Then he votes for Mith himself. His main suspects were Mith, Shasta, Nogrod, Eomer, and maybe Kitanna, who was sometimes suspicious and sometimes not at all.
He replies to Nogrod's comment on his eyebrow-raising habit of not reading posts by asking if it wouldn't be too obvious even for him, if a wolf.

Day 4 is the last day he's really vocal. Only eight of his 57 posts were written during three last days.

On day 5 Eönwë agrees with Nogrod about Shasta being suspicious - he looks like he was trying to save Mith. Nog seems to be making a lot sense, but he doesn't know if that means he's a wolf trying to look good. After Shasta's revelation he jokingly (IC) suggests that both Shasta and Eomer are wolves who are just trying to look like gifteds, and ends his post by saying he seemingly got a bit carried away. That day he didn't vote, and tells later that his internet died. Now, tell me, Eönwë, who would you have voted, and why?

On day 6 he votes for Boro, notes that he has become a chief suspect, explains not voting and asks how he is connected to the Kath kill.

**

On days 1 & 2 Boro says Eönwë looks innocent.
On day 2 Mith says Eönwë could be the spammer.
On day 1, Nerwen votes for Eönwë when there was the risk that either she or Mith might have been lynched.

**

He doesn't look very suspicious after day 2, either, although more than on the first few days. But there are some things that really make me uncomfortable, like that quote I posted. And also that Mith thing - suspecting, not mentioning, suspecting again. But somehow I don't like the thought that he was turned in night 3 - or then Boro just is a damn good wolf and a horrible backstabber. :p

I think I could take the risk of lynching Eönwë today, and if he's not the wolf, my next choice would be Rikae.

Off to take my friend's dog for a walk (that's the price I have to pay for being allowed to stay at her home while she's fencing).

edit: xed with two Kits

Eönwë

07-17-2008, 02:07 PM

First of all, I want to say that I think Boro is the changed wolf.
Just for example look at what he said about me.

On day 1:
I think he's innocent.
on day 2:
I don't want to see Eonwe lynched

But then there is a change in day 3:

Now people that I strongly felt were innocent (Eomer, Eonwe, Agan) could suddenly be the one who changed sides overnight. Spotting a flip is possible, but I agree it definitely shouldn't be our priority.
he hints, but then later on:

and I may have to start reconsidering my thoughts on Eonwe.

On Day 4:

I said that Eonwe's Day 1 vote didn't look suspicious, but I might do a complete flip-flop here on Eonwe who is baffling me right now. (I'll get to that in a bit). Day 2 vote was out of self preservation, that doesn't say anything. Whether wolf or not, most people would want to stay in the village (occassionally we get a couple suicidals).

An apologetic wolf is not unheard of.

and after that he starts treating me as a wolf.

Now, you could just say that he is an innocent that changed his mind, but that's obviously not true.

Then you could say that he was doing this to protect me if/when he died and we had planned it out. But then I wouldn't make it this obvious, would I?

The point I was trying to make is that we should look at all the posts, not just those after Night 3 (or just comparing before and after Night 3). All, I'm saying is that I think that this person has been a wolf since the very beginning, and has been hiding well. Of course, I may very well be wrong, but I'm just saying we shouldn't limit our sights.

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 02:14 PM

Form suspected Nogrod more or less through the whole game, and wouldn't have minded lynching Eönwë in the first few days. He thought it likely that Durelin had dreamed of Kitanna and found her innocent. He suspected Rikae, and said she could also be a wolf who found him too innocent. On day 4 he thought Eönwë and I (and Boro) were innocent, started suspecting me, and seemed to find me innocentish again on day 5 unless my English skills fail me.

Eomer promised to take a look at Form but never got the chance.

Just thought if there was anything that would be of any help, since his kill probably wasn't completely random but chosen according to the interests of the last wolf - he might even have been relatively easy to frame after voting for Shasta despite finding Boro more wolfish.

Now, did he hit something right? If the wolf wanted to reduce pressure on him/her, Form's death would point to Rikae or Nog. If Kitanna or Eönwë were the wolf, wouldn't it have been easier to pick someone who really suspected them? Though very many didn't suspect Eönwë anymore when Form died, so could it have been a precaution, since Form had suspected him earlier? Or do they want to bluff? Somehow it would make more sense to pick someone who is more dangerous to the wolf, instead of bluffing, at this point of the game.

I'll go and watch the Sleeping Beauty now with my friend, but will be back to vote. :cool:

edit: xed with Eönwë. Yay, life in the thread!

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 02:22 PM

First of all, I want to say that I think Boro is the changed wolf.
---
All, I'm saying is that I think that this person has been a wolf since the very beginning, and has been hiding well. Of course, I may very well be wrong, but I'm just saying we shouldn't limit our sights.
Exactly which one did you mean? :p

In my opinion, either Boro or you is the changed wolf. You, because you started being more suspicious after day 2. Or Boro, because he was arrgh so innocent-looking before that (though also after that :rolleyes:) and I don't want to admit to following a wolf so blindly.

Then you could say that he was doing this to protect me if/when he died and we had planned it out. But then I wouldn't make it this obvious, would I?
You would. Then you could ask "But then I wouldn't make it this obvious, would I?" and try to look innocent.

It would make sense that he started suspecting you when you were turned, since his fierce defense of you on the first days would have looked like defending a fellow wolf when one of you was discovered.

Okay going now.

Eönwë

07-17-2008, 02:39 PM

You would. Then you could ask "But then I wouldn't make it this obvious, would I?" and try to look innocent.

It would make sense that he started suspecting you when you were turned, since his fierce defense of you on the first days would have looked like defending a fellow wolf when one of you was discovered.

But people would say that anyway, so I was already pre-addressing the point.

Rikae

07-17-2008, 03:24 PM

I'm exhausted - nine hours at work - just a few quick thoughs on toDay for the moment, though:
First:
Because attacking Shasta in the night would have been pretty risky - a missed kill this late in the game when there are so few of us left is not what the wolves want.
Worse than losing one of the two remaining wolves? Not to most wolves, I would think.

I do think Eomer's death makes Aganzir look more innocent.

Second:
I don't like Kitanna's post #635 - too much stating the obvious and too much "we can't tell anything". Sinister when Eomer's death points to her, among others.
Second, I don't like her vote. Her suspicions toward Eonwe don't seem particularly well formed, and seem to have come along, perhaps, in response to Nogrod.

Rikae

07-17-2008, 03:50 PM

An hour ago, I thought I'd be too exhausted to participate, so I told Mac to help me out and do a quick Nogrod-analysis (since nobody seems to actually suspect him at all, which is odd). Now that he has finished it, I don't want to waste his effort and would still like to post it. Mac would like to remark that he has a little bit of a history to suspect Nogrod, but he really tried to be objective. He's not sure whether he succeeded, though.

Day One: He doesn’t seem to make any major points on day one, but on the first day, that’s nothing to be worried about. I noticed that he mostly criticised a few votes, which is a little convenient, because people who have voted are unlikely to return. It’s an easy way to go through day one without stepping on the feet of anybody who could step back.

Day Two: As I understand, Nogrod has been short on time up to this point? Anyway, I’m starting to wonder about the lack of real points in his posts. In #224 he gives us some on Kitanna, but that’s already it. I would expect Nogrod to try harder to read sense into the situation. In #168 he defends Nerwen rather vehemently, which raised an eyebrow of mine.

Now it’s getting more interesting, since it’s possible he was only turned into a wolf now (or Mith was just turned into a wolf).

Day Three: #258 is a bit suspicious to me: he makes a quite definite statement about what a wolf would do and, of course, what he did himself so far is unequal to that. He then builds up his suspicion on Mithalwen, which looks genuine at this point. Nothing more to say about this day.

Day Four: On this day his suspicion of Mith is starting to look fishy. He repeats to be certain about Mith several times, without giving any new input. Look at #356 and #359, for example. I’m undecided whether the chat between him and Mith that follows could be “wolf-on-wolf chat” or not. Later, he keeps on suspecting Mith strongly, but look at #408 as an example on how unaggressively he does this, mentioning his top suspect somewhere in the middle among his lesser ones. The way he handles it sounds like “I’m absolutely certain about Mith, but if you want to lynch someone else, oh well”. This really looks wolvish to me, because in hindsight he can claim to always have suspected Mith, but at the same time, he did not do much to actually get Mith lynched.
Another thing I noticed is that, after Eomer revealed, he kept on talking about the possibility of the “real hunter” challenging him. Is it just me, or does this look like a wolf hinting to the cobbler to challenge Eomer? (#378, #432)

Other than that, what he did that day looks quite innocent.

Day Five: He complains about the voting, which is a little fake, since he could have tried to alter the outcome earlier by urging a few people to vote for Mithalwen. I’d say that’s a sensible thing to do if your best suspect is on the verge of being lynched.
When Shasta and Boro came forward, he takes the side of Boromir. But then, many did.

I’m puzzled by how confused Nogrod is about his other suspicions. Is this genuine or a wolf trying to look confused in order to not have to come up with anything? In any case, it’s a bit untypical for him.

Day Six: I’m wondering why people think Nogrod to be so innocent-looking this day. He urges people to give their thoughts on everybody and keep on giving input, but then he fails to do so himself. All day long, he only agrees with what other people (Agan, especially) said. The only person he attacks a little is Eonwe, the least experienced villager left (no offenses here, Eonwe). However, his only real point against him - at this point! - is his DayOne behaviour. #615 is something a wolf would post to appear helpful without giving opinions of his own. I’m really sorry if I’m wrong about this, but, as I felt before, Nogrod doesn’t appear to be really interested in reading sense into the situation.

Day Seven: Continues going after Eonwe and does an analysis of Eomer, leading him to drop prior suspicions of Aganzir. Not much to say.

Rikae

07-17-2008, 03:53 PM

Eönwë

07-17-2008, 04:01 PM

OK, I don't have much time. I vote:

++Kitanna

Because something's not quite right about her.

Rikae

07-17-2008, 04:09 PM

Agan, would you consider voting for Nogrod? I think I might slightly prefer him to Kitanna, although I also suspect her.

Eönwë

07-17-2008, 04:15 PM

There's a plot somewhere here to get my lynched!:p (wait, no:eek:)

Good night, people.

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 04:31 PM

Another thing:
It seems to me that it's more likely Boromir would have sacrificed himself like he did if his fellow wolf was an experienced one (because otherwise he would have little hope s/he could survive to the end as a lone wolf).
I agree with you here.

Agan, would you consider voting for Nogrod? I think I might slightly prefer him to Kitanna, although I also suspect her.
Aiee! I would. I suspect everyone now, at least to some extent, so yes - I'm considering voting for Nogrod, too.

It's two votes for Eönwë and one for Kitanna now. So we could either lynch Eönwë or Kitanna, or tie Eönwë and Nogrod and let the dice decide for us.

But I've been pretty much suspecting Rikae for some time, and I really don't know.

I really wonder, though, if wolfish Nogrod would have defended Nerwen as much as he did - after all, he's known for his love to sacrifice his fellows. His certainty about Mith is something I noticed myself and found strange, too. But otherwise I don't really know. You have good points about him, I think I had a few good points about Eönwë, too, and Kitanna had some good points about you (although I could have added there some more :p).

I'm quite torn right now.

And now that no one else is seemingly suspecting me, you, Rikae, drop your suspicions because Eomer's death might point to my innocence, and ask me if I would vote how you like?

Rikae

07-17-2008, 04:45 PM

And now that no one else is seemingly suspecting me, you, Rikae, drop your suspicions because Eomer's death might point to my innocence, and ask me if I would vote how you like?
Yes, I lowered my suspicion level on you because Eomer's death indicates you are probably innocent.
If you're innocent, I need your help in lynching a wolf, obviously, since we're so few.
If I cared who anyone else suspected or didn't suspect, I'd just vote Eonwe and be done with it. :rolleyes:

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 04:52 PM

No, I don't think I would vote for Nogrod today.

If Eönwë is not the wolf, it is (obviously) one of the more experienced players. Now Rikae is trying to get possibly the strongest, or at least one of the most persuasive, players lynched. Yes, Nogrod might be a wolf, but so might Rikae. Somehow I don't feel happy about this.

And maybe it's just me, but I don't like how so many changed their opinions about me after Eomer's death - Nogrod and Rikae, mainly. Unfortunately both of them cannot be wolves. Besides Rikae looks all too much like she's now trying to buddy up to me.

Argh.

Or then I should just vote for Nogrod and leave it to the dice.

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 04:54 PM

And there's still that Eönwë quote about Eomer and Mith that is bugging me...

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 04:57 PM

But if Eönwë is a wolf, why did he vote for Kitanna after your case on Nogrod since it seems unlikely that we others would vote for her, too?

Sorry I'm just thinking aloud

Rikae

07-17-2008, 04:59 PM

Ok, well.

++Nogrod

Aganzir

07-17-2008, 04:59 PM

++Eönwë

Let's see what happens tomorrow.

Brinniel

07-17-2008, 05:00 PM

Deadline. Silence!

Eönwë has been lynched.

Brinniel

07-17-2008, 06:35 PM

With now only five BDers remaining, the camp was growing increasingly smaller and therefore quieter. But with one more wolf still around, the day resumed as usual.

Each BDer took the time to voice their suspicions. Nogrod and Kitanna agreed that Eönwë seemed the most likely wolf among them.
Eönwë fired back remarking, “I say we kill Kitanna! Something’s not right about her…”
Rikae disagreed with the idea of Eönwë’s guilt. “I think he’s innocent,” she said. “But as for Nogrod…there we might have a wolf. Why else is he still alive?”
And so the decision came to Aganzir. “Errr…..ummm….well….. Eönwë it is,” she decided.

The four BDers picked up their pitchforks and torches and brought Eönwë to the same tree where they had first hung the Sixth Wizard. But instead of stringing him up by the neck, they hung him upside down by the ankles.
“Oh c’mon guys, this is extremely uncomfortable,” complained an upside down Eönwë.
“Will you confess?” asked Nogrod.
“Of course I won’t,” he replied. “Because I told you…I’m not a wolf. I’m innocent, I swear!”
“Hmm….too bad,” said Kitanna. “But I’m sure batting him around in a game of piñata ought to reveal a thing or two…”
“Nah,” Rikae responded. “Frankly I’m too tired to do any killing today. Why don’t we just leave him to the mosquitoes?”
“That’s actually a good idea,” said Aganzir.

Once they came up with a plan, the four BDers (including Nogrod) ran to their tents to retrieve their own bottles of scented hairspray. Then they returned to the hanging Eönwë and proceeded to spritz him with hair product, covering him from head to toe. There they left a now sticky Eönwë kicking and screaming, and resumed preparing dinner and their usual chores.

The BDers had such a pleasant evening sharing stories around the campfire as they ate their dinner, they had completely forgotten about Eönwë for most of the evening, only barely remembering him just before heading to bed. They returned to the tree to find poor Eönwë swinging limply from the branch completely covered by mosquitoes. Those pesky insects had sucked him dry.

There had been no change, and the BDers quickly realised they had lynched the wrong person. It was an unfortunate mistake (for the innocents, that is)….but on the bright side, at least Eönwë had provided them for once a mosquito-free evening.

--------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably
Nogrod~the wanna-be moderator

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)
Boromir88~ the one upper~made excellent firewood (hacker/wolf)
Eomer of the Rohirrim~ easily-offended trendy~his ninja moves could not match kung fu werewolf (moderator hunter)
Eönwë~ conspiracy theorist~his blood was irresistable to mosquitoes (ordo)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Night 8 has begun.

The final wolf may send me their kill. And as usual, everyone should remain silent.

Brinniel

07-18-2008, 05:07 PM

That night, one of the BDers awoke to the sound of sobbing outside. Concerned, he crawled out of his sleeping bag and stepped out of his tent. By the fire pit sat a figure burying her face and crying.

“What’s the matter?” the BDer asked the sobbing shape.
“Oh, like you would care,” she replied bitterly.
“Of course I do,” he said approaching her. “I just wanna help. Tell me-“ He stopped, suddenly noticing this crying figure was a lot furrier than normal. “Wait a minute,” he realised. “You’re the werewolf.”
“Yeah yeah, I’m wolf,” she said. “Now go ahead and run away, little man. That’s what you all do.”
“Well lucky for you, I’m not like everyone else.” The BDer sat down next to the wolf and put his arms around her. “Now tell me what is wrong.”
“It’s just…nobody likes me. Everyone wants me dead. I can’t help that I like to eat people….it’s just my nature. And now that all my mates are dead, I’m all alone and I have no one to talk to.” The wolf buried her head into the BDer’s lap and sobbed loudly. “I’m so lonely!”
“There, there,” the BDer said, stroking her fur. “Everything will be alright.” He cradled the sad wolf as though she were a small child.

They sat there for several minutes. As the BDer comforted the werewolf, her sobs slowly quieted until she was silent.
Then she finally spoke in almost a whisper: “I can’t believe you actually fell for that.”
“Huh?” replied the confused BDer.
Before he realised what was happening, the wolf suddenly turned around and shoved the BDer to the ground. She giggled delightfully as she ripped open his chest and tore out his organs. Unfortunately for him, the other two BDers never heard his screams as the werewolf ate his insides.

--------------------------------------------------------

The next morning, three BDers emerged from their tents to find the remains of Nogrod spread out throughout the camp. The three girls looked at each other realising they were the only ones left. Yet, one of them was the wolf responsible for this mess.

This was the last day. Today they would have to do this right. Anymore mistakes…and they were goners.

---------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all
Aganzir~non-anonymous neg-repper
Rikae~the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)
Boromir88~ the one upper~made excellent firewood (hacker/wolf)
Eomer of the Rohirrim~ easily-offended trendy~his ninja moves could not match kung fu werewolf (moderator hunter)
Eönwë~ conspiracy theorist~mosquitoes loved him a little too much (ordo)
Nogrod~ the wanna-be moderator~killed by kindness (ordo)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The final day has begun.

The three remaining may now discuss.

Rikae

07-18-2008, 05:18 PM

Oh, what a situation. As far as I'm concerned, you both look like wolves - Aganzir has been voting like a wolf, and Kitanna has been posting like one since the beginning (as I mentioned other times). Ack.

One thing that I've wanted to mention since yesterDay evening is this:
++Eönwë

Let's see what happens tomorrow.
Now, talk about seemingly knowing too much... Aganzir, if you were so certain Eönwë was not the wolf (i.e., the game would continue toDay), why did you vote for him? Also, why were you so sure you would be alive toDay?
I suppose Nogrod's death makes sense. I expected I would be killed, but since I was the one seriously looking at him yesterDay, killing him sets me up for lynching toDay.
My gut is telling me Aganzir is a wolf (and has been doing so since her vote for Form), but logic tells me she wuoldn't have killed Eomer...

Rikae

07-18-2008, 05:48 PM

Isn't anyone else going to discuss things toDay? Two of us have to agree on a vote... I know one of you is innocent... we have to get this right. Doesn't anybody have any thoughts?
Aganzir, what do you think of Kitanna? Kitanna, what do you think of Aganzir? Ok, you're married. :D
Seriously - I have time to talk now, but tomorrow I'll be working all day & won't be able to participate until the last few hours before DL. I hope that doesn't mean I'll come back to find you've both voted for me when I couldn't defend myself... (and in that case, I swear, the village loses).

Kitanna

07-18-2008, 09:09 PM

Kitanna, what do you think of Aganzir
I've been going back and forth on her for a while. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what to think. I really need to sleep and I will only have a few hours to post before being whisked away to my job.

It'd be nice to at least here from Agan and even again from you Rikae before I have to vote, but I know that can be wishful thinking.

When I get up I'll look through at Agan (since I've already done so with Rikae) and I'll make my vote from there.

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 04:22 AM

Now, talk about seemingly knowing too much... Aganzir, if you were so certain Eönwë was not the wolf (i.e., the game would continue toDay), why did you vote for him? Also, why were you so sure you would be alive toDay?
Because I figured Nogrod would be more dangerous for you, and I trusted Kitanna a bit more than Eönwë. I was not sure of Eönwë's innocence, naturally, but you made me more confident about it at the end of the day, so to say. :p
I didn't say I was sure I would be alive today. I thought I could well be killed since no one seemed to think I would have attacked Eomer.

I suppose Nogrod's death makes sense. I expected I would be killed, but since I was the one seriously looking at him yesterDay, killing him sets me up for lynching toDay.
And if you had killed Kitanna, it would have pointed to you because she made a case on you and somewhat suspected you anyway. If you had killed me, it would have pointed to you because I think it was pretty clear I would be suspecting you today.
And why do you claim you expected to be killed? Surely there were people who were suspected less than you (like, pretty much everybody else), and a wolf doesn't want to leave clearly innocents around for the last day. ;)
Nog's death makes sense to me because he was generally considered innocent.

I think Kitanna is innocent. I did suspect her pretty heavily earlier, but over the last few days I've been more and more inclined to think her innocent. And I'm also rather sure Rikae is the wolf.

I hope that doesn't mean I'll come back to find you've both voted for me when I couldn't defend myself... (and in that case, I swear, the village loses).
I dare say I'm going to vote for you today. And really, those threats don't work.

And if we're both innocent and Kitanna is laughing at us now... Well, then I guess she deserves the victory.

I'm going to take a quick look at Rikae now and see if there's anything that wasn't in Kit's analysis that I'd like to mention.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 04:25 AM

Hmm, ok, off to work now, and things really aren't any clearer. I don't want to vote until I've heard from both of you toDay. I'll be back about 3 hours before DL.

EDIT: Apparently I crossed with Agan - and didn't notice that until now.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 05:07 AM

Ack. They switched my schedule. Now I'm working until half an hour before DL.
I'll be here for the next three hours, but I have to vote before leaving since it's not certain I'll make it home in time this evening.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 05:15 AM

Agan, if you are innocent, I suggest taking another look at me, because you're about to lose the game for us. I don't even see what you are basing your "certainty" on.

Still, it makes sense, if you are a wolf, for you to buddy up to one of us and strongly suspect the other the way you're doing. You suspected me yesterday - based on what? Because I suspected you earlier but thought you wouldn't kill Eomer? I think I was pretty clear about my reasoning. Still, if you knew you would be playing with me toDay (as everything seems to suggest you did), it would have made sense for you to prepare a "history" of suspecting me.

Kitanna "deserves" to win if she's a wolf? I daresay not. She has been quite low-profile during the whole game, so if we fail to look at her properly now, shame on us.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 05:25 AM

I'm going to take a quick look at Rikae now and see if there's anything that wasn't in Kit's analysis that I'd like to mention.
All right - looking at this again, I've pretty much made up my mind. An innocent wouldn't only look at one person. Aganzir also backs up her suspicion of me, and assertion that Kitanna is innocent, with nothing but saying she's thought it for a while. I'm getting a very gloating feeling off her posts (and have been since she voted Form) and an innocent shouldn't be gloating yet.

Now, I'm getting the impression she doesn't actually care about voting for a wolf, but rather, about getting Kitanna to vote with her.

Still, an innocent in this situation should look at both other people, and I haven't had a look at Kitanna recently. I'll do that before casting my vote. It looks like I'll have to vote first, and if I choose wrong, I lose the game for the village. Pressure? What pressure? :eek:

Rikae

07-19-2008, 05:40 AM

Now I'm second-guessing myself... :rolleyes:

Would Agan come on this strong toDay if she were a wolf? Or would a wolf more likely make a wishy-washy post like Kitanna's and wait until someone else votes (not that Agan has voted yet, either). Certainly, Kitanna's behavior toDay is an example of the easiest way for a wolf to win in a case like this, but I somehow doubt an Agan-wolf would behave similarly.

*tears hair out*

EDIT: Quintuple post! Go me.

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 05:51 AM

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 06:07 AM

Still, it makes sense, if you are a wolf, for you to buddy up to one of us and strongly suspect the other the way you're doing.
It would make sense also for a wolf, but I just can't help feeling pretty confident about your guilt.

You suspected me yesterday - based on what?
Based on a bad feeling, the reasons of which are hopefully explained in my case against you.

Because I suspected you earlier but thought you wouldn't kill Eomer?
You have been a bit too quick to declare people innocent when it seems to suit your interests best throughout the whole game.

Kitanna "deserves" to win if she's a wolf? I daresay not. She has been quite low-profile during the whole game, so if we fail to look at her properly now, shame on us.
Maybe I should have said "I deserve to lose" instead of that "she deserves to win"? Funny that you called my case against her forced when I made it. Yes, I suspected her and don't suspect anymore, and if I have been so wrong in dropping my suspicions, I deserve to lose.
And werewolf is not a matter of life and death, and I doubt other players will get angry even if we lose the game. ;)

I'm getting a very gloating feeling off her posts (and have been since she voted Form) and an innocent shouldn't be gloating yet.
Oh, that's interesting. Care to elaborate?

Now, I'm getting the impression she doesn't actually care about voting for a wolf, but rather, about getting Kitanna to vote with her.
I care about voting for you. Even if Kitanna doesn't and we lose, I can at least take comfort in being right.

Still, an innocent in this situation should look at both other people
I have looked at Kitanna earlier, and after that I've started feeling better and better about her, as you can see if you read my posts from the previous few days.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 06:41 AM

Kitanna

#17
IC banter with Boro and Nerwen.

#50
Telling Aganzir IC posts can be useful on day 2 (things hidden in them, hackers flying under radar).

#52
List of suspicions before leaving. Thinks there is a wolf among Agan, Nilp and Form. Finds Nerwen, EW & Sixth moderately suspicious. No one person she feels strongly about.

#54
Votes for Nerwen because she “posts often and says little”.

#62
Answers Nogrod, who said her vote looked forced: “I would rather vote for one who raised my suspicions for even a remote reason on Day 1, than randomly pick a name from a hat.”

#140
Will have to vote early for work reasons.

#164
Asks Shasta if he thinks there's wolf-on-wolf voting so early (re: Kath's vote). Seems to be suspicious of EW's vote for Sixth. Agrees with Boro that Nerwen's posts, even non-IC, have little content. Vote tally. Finds EW, Agan, Boro & Eonwe suspicions.

#167
Eonwe's vote for Mith “too neat and tidy”.Can't see a hacker-Agan basing all her suspicions on Sixth's one post, but maybe a spammer.

#169
Agan's vote for and suspicions of Sixth feel wrong. Votes Agan.

#260
Doesn't have much time to post, looks like EW was dropped as dead weight, Rikae & Eonwe's votes unsurprising, will look at Eonwe voters.

#289
Analyis of Nerwen. Thinks her connection to Agan makes Agan look innocent, Nilp, Eonwe or Form may have been a wolf with Nerwen.

#315
Looking at Eonwe voters. Finds Eonwe suspicious, hasn't totally dropped suspicions of Agan but thinks she is more likely the cobbler than a wolf, Of Shasta and Eomer, Eomer more suspicious.

#321
Votes for Eonwe.

#357
Wants to look at Durelin's posts. Durelin aybe might have dreamt of Nogrod or Mith.

#361
Looks at Durelin, finds Mith suspicious based on it (Mith a constant in Durelin's suspicions).

#366
Votes for Mith. Shasta looks wolvish too.

#515
Finds Shasta highly suspicious, Agan moderately suspicious, votes for Shasta.

#608
Votes for Boro. Suggests looking at Eonwe toMorrow.

#609
Suggests Boro acted alone to take out the ranger, not to protect his partner.

#635
We can't tell what Eomer or the wolf were thinking. Still wants to look at Eonwe.

#637
Thinks Eonwe's playing style changed and he might be the new wolf (agreeing with Nogrod).

#638
Has to look at Rikae, unsure about Agan, thinks Nogrod innocent.

#640
Wonders why Rikae voted for Nerwen and not someone on red list (Kitanna or EW). There are things that point to my guilt and innocence. Thinks it's suspicious that I dropped my suspicions of Form.

I think I should answer this now. I dropped my suspicions toward Form because the way Shasta and Aganzir followed my vote suddenly and with little apparent reason, coupled with Mith's wolfishness, made the two of them look far worse than anything Form had done made him look, and if a wolf voted Form to save Mith, it stands to reason Form would be innocent. Also, regarding Nerwen – I don't make lists to mechanically follow them. She looked worst to me at the point when I voted (I don't remember my thought process exactly, it's been too long, but I put my reasons in my vote-post).

#641
Votes Eonwe, finds me most suspicious of the remaining people.

#665
Unsure about Agan, wants to look at her before voting.

Conclusion:
Kitanna was more helpful, and less suspicious, than I initially thought. Her case against Mith speaks in her favor, since Durelin's posts might not have resulted in Mith's lynching without it. Her quietness also seems mostly due to RL... I wouldn't declare her certainly innocent under other circumstances, but compared to Aganzir, she is the more innocent looking of the two.

I see Aganzir posted while I was writing this in another window, so I'll address that in a moment.

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 07:25 AM

I have to leave - I think I will be able to come back, but I'm not perfectly sure, so I rather vote now.

++ Rikae

You are a fighter and good at that, but it would take a confession from Kitanna to make me change my mind.

Rikae

07-19-2008, 07:37 AM

On day 1 Rikae accuses Kitanna of her vote (which, I agree, was suspicious), but ends up voting for Nerwen herself. I wonder indeed what made her vote for her over her top suspects - the only thing she had posted between Rikae's list and vote was an "I'm back" post (since Rikae xed with her other post). However Rikae's vote tied Mith and Nerwen, both wolves, and I don't know what to make of that. Was Mith or Rikae the one turned on night 3, or had the wolves agreed on suspecting one another? Well, all of us alive suspected Nerwen at some point, and also Boro the wolf was all for voting her on day 2.
So basically, I voted for a wolf, but that doesn't make me look more innocent. OK, fair enough, but it also doesn't make me look more guilty.
And, as I said to Kitanna, I don't make lists so I can follow them like a robot. I don't remember exactly, but I think I had reflected more on the matter at that point, and thought Nerwen looked worse.because of her Nilp/Form/Agan thing.

Rikae was one of the main contributors in EW's lynching. A perfect case - suspect someone from the beginning, but vote for him also because of being unhepful. That's a sure way to start a bandwagon, against an innocent in this case.
I made a case against the best suspect I had at the time. I can't control who follows me. It's funny you talk about me starting bandwagons, though, when you've participated in one of "my bandwagons" yourself.

On day 4 Rikae found both Boro and Mith innocent. Other than that, she doesn't speak about them too much.
At the time, I thought the most suspicious thing going on was the way people were narrowing the choices based on Durelin's posts, which didn't seem to reveal much to me.
Any time too many people agree, I tend to suspect there's conspiracy involved.

And then she calls my seizing on a single word or phrasing forced?
*shrug*
I said it was minor.

I think people have got so used to wolf-on-wolf votes that it just makes sense that Rikae said she won't vote for Mith (or Shasta either) on day 4.
I didn't say "I won't vote for Mith (or Shasta either)." I said I didn't like the choices narrowed to them and probably wouldn't vote for either because the narrowing of the field itself looked suspicious.
I don't see what this has to do with wolf-on-wolf votes.
Somehow Rikae has had the ability to start bandwagons in this game, and her Form bandwagon almost saved Mith.
Thanks to you and the cobbler...
Do you honestly think I knew, or intended, that it would become a bandwagon? I was looking for Form's reaction. Why should other people follow my gut feelings (unless those other people are wolves trying to save a fellow)?
She made a post analysing how Mith and Shasta became the main candidates for that day's lynch, and concluded by saying she can't shake off the feeling there's something fishy. So, both defending a fellow wolf and threatening those who suspect her.
Well, that kind of goes with the territory, doesn't it? If some people don't look suspicious to one, those who suspect them appear to have little reason, and therefore look suspicious themselves. :rolleyes:
She found Kit and Nog the most suspicious, and told us not to discount the possibility that Eomer was the cobbler instead of hunter. I don't see a reason why the real hunter should be lying low and watching how the cobbler pretending to be a known innocent has everybody trusting him. Besides then the cobbler would risk the wolves wasting a kill on him, which is not quite what he wants. But what a better way to make people feel they cannot completely trust a known innocent?
I suppose you're right about that. I didn't think of that at the time. As I've said, I get nervous when too many people agree. Wolves tend to be hesitant about killing hunters, anyway.

And then she accuses people who followed her vote?
Absolutely, as I've explained many, many times. If I recall correctly, you still haven't given a reason (besides "feeling") that you helped tie Form with Mith. I cast the first vote for Form and had no reason to think anyone would follow it. After all, I didn't exactly "make a case" against him. I had a hunch, and wanted to see how he'd act under pressure.
Looks like a nice wolf tactic - try to save her fellow by appealing to others to vote for Form, and when Mith ends up being lynched accuse the other Form-voters. Rikae has been good at starting bandwagons but not taking responsibility for them; see for example her post the next day:
An initial vote, without even an analysis, is not "starting a bandwagon", however you slice it. I am not psychic.
As for taking responsibility, I apologized. What else do you want? That I continue suspecting Form even though the events at the day's end and over night have made him look innocent (as I just explained in my post to Kitanna)?
She finds me suspicious because of voting for Form and that "little exchange about grinning",
That little exchange with the spammer, which is one of the examples of the "gloating" I mentioned earlier.
and suggests both Shasta and I are wolves. She's also pretty quick to dismiss the possibility that Form was a wolf - maybe it was easier for her to find him innocent after he had started suspecting her?
Actually, I tend to have a bad habit of finding people guilty when they start suspecting me. It was because (for the 4th time), Mith was a wolf, Sally the spammer, and you, Sally and Shasta followed my vote out of the blue and without explanation.
If I had actually made a case aganst Form, or if you or somebody else had, if your votes had made sense and not come out of the blue, if they hadn't almost saved a wolf, I wouldn't find them suspicious.

Seemingly Shasta just preferred to vote for Form. Maybe because he found Mith innocent? And since Shasta was not a wolf, that thing about me doesn't work, either.
Hindsight's 20/20, isn't it? Obviously Shasta voted for Form innocently, as he was innocent, but that was hardly obvious at the time.
Your being a wolf doesn't depend on Shasta being a wolf (especially not now). Your vote was still suspicious.

Like I already said, I had to leave because of RL reasons, and I wouldn't lie about it even if I was a wolf. And by the way, I didn't encourage you to look into my Kitanna case more, but people's interactions with Nerwen and Mith, which I believe might have been useful.
I wouldn't lie about RL reasons either. The most I would say is "I'm leaving, I'll be back later". Just to clear that up, since you seem to have been insinuating, since I suspected you first, that I claimed I would.
You encouraged us, if I recall correctly, to look into "it" more after making a case against Kitanna.

Would Rikae have chosen me to be a wolf in DW if she really thought I would be that apparent?
If I thought everything apparent to me was apparent to everyone, I wouldn't bother posting at all. :rolleyes:

Then she votes for me after Shasta's reveal - based on that grinning thing. By then it's clear Shasta and I can't be fellow wolves, which was one of the reasons for Rikae to suspect us. And quite honestly, if Shasta was a wolf and knew he would be under much pressure, wouldn't it have been useful if he had come out as the ranger in order to reveal the real one? Say Rikae what she will, it takes a coolheaded ranger to not instantly reveal someone's claim a fake.
Hm? So when one of my two top suspects revealed as a ranger, I was supposed to vote for him rather than for the other one? Sure, gifted reveals can be false, but false gifteds will eventually be found - one doesn't generally lynch a newly revealed gifted.
I already suspected you more than Shasta after my analysis of him, anyway.
She seems a bit... I don't know what's a good word, upset? that suddenly others don't seem to suspect me anymore. Her vote for me looks like she was trying to start a bandwagon again, and now, all of a sudden, it doesn't look so likely that I will be lynched.
You were the most wolfish person in sight. Of course I wanted to lynch you.

It looks like she said that because she couldn't come up with anything else but had to say something. Do you really think the wolves would have been so busy elsewhere that they would have forgotten their known innocent?
It looks like you're saying that because you can't come up with anything else. It was what I was thinking at the time. Why shouldn't I say it? Why should I say anything?

On day 8 she says Eomer's death makes me look more innocent - no one else is really suspecting me at that point, and I guess she doesn't want me to suspect her because of suspecting me.
Ha. I'm not afraid of you (sorry if that hurts your pride).
I didn't want to lynch an innocent, and Eomer's death did make you look innocent (now that I'm nearly certain you're a wolf, I have to compliment you on the boldness of that move).
She also finds Kitanna suspicious, and has a case on Nog, who hasn't been suspected very much. Yes, it's dangerous not to pay attention to someone this late in the game, but yesterday I couldn't shake off the feeling of a wolf trying to get a dangerous player lynched.
Anyone who makes a case against Nogrod is called that. Comes with the territory. Leaving Nogrod unlooked at at that point in the game would have been crazy.
She had been suspecting me heavily (though with pretty few reasons), and now that it suited her current case, she was buddying up to me, trying to have me vote for Nogrod.
Actually, I had more reasons to suspect you than I usually have to suspect anyone in any game. I really thought yesterDay you were unlikely to be a wolf, but obviously I was wrong.
She would have preferred to lynch Nogrod or Kitanna, and leave Eönwë (the most inexperienced player, who therefore might be easier to convince than the older ones) and me (who has been pretty wrong about everyone but Nerwen) alive.
I also thought Eonwe was unlikely to be a wolf, for reasons I gave. You apparently thought so too, but voted for him anyway - something you still haven't adequately explained.
With four people to choose from and previous events making two look innocentish, I'm going to look more at the remaining two - surprise surprise.

And now today she's suspecting me again. Because Kitanna hasn't really suspected me and she knew she would be dead if she couldn't make her feel uncomfortable about me?

edit: xed with four Rikaes

Um, I just took a look at Kitanna and it seems she's been suspecting you for some time, actually.
I can't believe you accuse me of trying to buddy up to Kitanna. :rolleyes:

Based on a bad feeling, the reasons of which are hopefully explained in my case against you.

Nope, I'm afraid it wasn't. The only case you've made is that my reasoning has not always been perfect and I am not psychic.

I care about voting for you. Even if Kitanna doesn't and we lose, I can at least take comfort in being right.
In that case, you will lose, but at least you can take comfort in being the last wolf standing.

I think I'll also make note of the fact that it's interesting, to say the least, that Aganzir is so certain about me yet still hasn't cast her vote.

Well, it's up to you now, Kitanna. Choose well.

++Aganzir

EDIT: X'd with Aganzir, obviously.

Kitanna

07-19-2008, 07:51 AM

++ Aganzir

Rikae

07-19-2008, 07:54 AM

Which of you is a wolf? I've got to leave for work right now and can't stand the suspense!

Rikae

07-19-2008, 07:57 AM

Bah. Can't be late for work... I suppose Kit would probably have gloated if she was...

Kitanna

07-19-2008, 08:21 AM

I am, but I'm not particularly interested in gloating.

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 09:41 AM

Arrrrgh sorry Rikae. :( It's quite a bad combination to be very confident and very wrong at the same time.

And congratulations, Kit. :) Well played - hopefully I will now learn not to drop my suspicions at a crucial point. :p Were you a wolf from the beginning?

*totally deserves to be lynched*

Nerwen

07-19-2008, 09:44 AM

So it was you, Kitanna! I was hoping...

And I can answer your question, Agan: she was the new wolf.

Aganzir

07-19-2008, 10:08 AM

Oh and sorry for being so damn suspicious - at some point I realised I was behaving like a wolf half-deliberately. Suppose I was traumatized by DW. :p

Sorry Sixth. I really thought you were suspicious.
Sorry EW for lynching you in spite of not suspecting you very much.
Sorry Nilp. Your innocence was a bigger surprise to me than Kit's guilt.
Sorry Form, but at that moment I was feeling rather good about Mith.
Sorry Eönwë. I think I would have voted for Kitanna, had I not become certain of Rikae's guilt then.
And sorry Rikae.

Though I guess we shouldn't start the post-game discussion before Brinn has posted the final narration...

Nerwen

07-19-2008, 10:17 AM

I'll second the "sorry, Nilp". I guess I helped put the noose around your neck (posthumously)... and it was so sweet of you to defend me.:D:D:D

(Hey, someone has to gloat.)

Brinniel

07-19-2008, 02:05 PM

Though I guess we shouldn't start the post-game discussion before Brinn has posted the final narration...
Yeah, thanks. It's kinda weird to get online to discover your game has ended without you.... :rolleyes:

Technically it's still day, but obviously there's no reason to wait for deadline to put up the narration. I'll get to work on it right away and put it up as soon as I can. And until it's up, I'll request that everyone please don't post just yet.

Brinniel

07-19-2008, 04:07 PM

The last day was a critical one for the two lonely innocent BDers. The fate of the Barrow Downs was left in their hands. The pressure was on.

For most of the day, Rikae and Aganzir butted heads.
“You are the furriest wolf I’ve ever seen!” accused Aganzir.
“Ha, I’m no wolf and you know it…wolf!” Rikae yelled back.
“Hey Kitanna, what do you think?” asked Aganzir.
“Yeah,” said Rikae. “We assume you’re innocent, so you decide. Who should we lynch?”
Kitanna, who had spent most of the day watching in the sidelines, stared hard at Rikae then moved her gaze onto Aganzir. She was silent for several minutes before deciding. “Let’s lynch Aganzir,” she finally spoke.

Kitanna picked up her pitchfork and Rikae grabbed her torch as they approached Aganzir. Aganzir’s expression changed to one of horror as she realised what was about to happen.
“No, wait!” she cried. “You’re making a mistake! I’m innocent, I tell you!”
“I seriously doubt that,” Rikae replied.
Aganzir squealed and took off running. But the poor girl was so frightened she couldn’t run in a straight line, but instead ran in circles around her accusers. Rikae and Kitanna watched in amusement as she lapped them a dozen times before collapsing to the ground from dizziness. The two looked at each other and shrugged.
“Time’s up!” said Kitanna and she sunk the pitchfork deep into Aganzir’s chest.
“Oww! This…really….hurts…” were Aganzir’s final words. And then she died.

Nothing happened.
“Why isn’t she changing?” Rikae wondered.
She glanced up at Kitanna who was wearing an unusually large grin.
“Crap,” Rikae realised. “It’s you!”
“Yep, I’m the wolf,” Kitanna laughed. “And how fun it was to watch you two go at it all day. Now, to finish it off…”
Rikae slowly backed away. “Oh please, won’t you spare me?” she begged.
“Let you live?” she replied. “Just so you can squeal?”
“No, I won’t tell anyone. I swear!”
“Well it’s a thought,” the wolf considered. “But then again, I’ve already fixed supper. All that’s missing is the meat.” She grinned.
“Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” Rikae screamed and sprinted straight into the forest.

Rikae ran as fast as she could, not bothering to see if the werewolf was following her. She kept running, until she ran straight off a cliff.
“Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!” she yelled and then landed on top of the Ka’s rotting corpse with a sickening crunch.

Back at the camp, Kitanna laughed to herself as she threw the meat of Aganzir into the boiling pot.

-------------------------------------------------------------

It wasn’t always this way. Kitanna had started off like any other ordinary BDer. She had come to the camp to finally meet her online friends, and for the first two days she had honestly helped try to uncover who was responsible for the Barrow-Wight’s death. But when the wolves came to her on that third night, she received a new calling. Being evil is always so much more fun…so who could resist? And once bitten, she could never go back.

Though her mates were dead, Kitanna would finish what they started. They had sacrificed themselves so that she could finish what they started. The night before he died, Boromir had taught her all the secrets to being a hacker. It was her destiny to continue what her fellow wolves had started, and she would do them proud.

Back in the real world (where there’s electricity), Kitanna plugged in her laptop and turned it on, waiting patiently as the computer loaded. The Barrow Downs log-in page appeared on the screen and she punched in the necessary codes. “Thank you for logging in, The Barrow-Wight.” Kitanna smiled.

The hackers were now in control. A new age had dawned on The Barrow Downs, and nothing would ever be the same.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The Living:

Kitanna~the self-righteous know-it-all (hacker/werewolf)

The Dead:

The Barrow-Wight~took up permanent residence in a barrow (mod)
The Sixth Wizard~ grammar Nazi~strung up in a tree (ordo)
McCaber~ does it 4 teh lulz~made the narration much more amusing than it originally was (ordo)
The Elf-Warrior~nitpicker~didn’t know how to float (ordo)
Nerwen~ rabid fangirl~willingly traded her life for an autographed Legolas poster (hacker/werewolf)
Kath~artiste~wrote her last poem (ordo)
Nilpaurion Felagund~ Ainulindalë Addict~had a mouthful of dynamite (ordo)
Durelin~ Unreliable RPG Addict~made a delicious s’more (moderator seer)
Mithalwen~ therapist~provided a satisfying meal while keeping her BDers warm (hacker/wolf)
THE Ka~Artful Dodger~took a wrong turn (ordo)
satansaloser2005~a fan of everything but Tolkien~suffered from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome (spammer/cobbler)
Shastanis Althreduin~ chatspeak translator~became an easy target (moderator ranger)
Formendacil~ Tolkien Canonist~wasn’t very good at hiding (ordo)
Boromir88~ the one upper~made excellent firewood (hacker/wolf)
Eomer of the Rohirrim~ easily-offended trendy~his ninja moves could not match kung fu werewolf (moderator hunter)
Eönwë~ conspiracy theorist~mosquitoes loved him a little too much (ordo)
Nogrod~ the wanna-be moderator~killed by kindness (ordo)
Aganzir~ non-anonymous neg-repper~didn’t know how to run in a straight line (ordo)
Rikae~ the person who tries to fake knowledge of the books and fails miserably~ran in too straight of a line (ordo)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Werewolves win!!
Cobbler wins!!
Innocents lose.

Everyone may now feel free to discuss the game.

Volo

07-19-2008, 04:13 PM

Haha! I told you! :p

Shastanis Althreduin

07-19-2008, 04:13 PM

Sigh.

I was positive Agan and Rikae were innocent, but until yesterday (you can ask Sally) I was equally sure Nogrod was the last wolf.

Well played, Kitanna.

Brinniel

07-19-2008, 04:17 PM

(This is mainly from memory...if I've made any mistakes, let me know. :) )

Night 1

Dream: Formendacil

Day 1

Hunt: Mithalwen

Lynch: The Sixth Wizard

Night 2

Dream: none

Protect: Kath

Hunt: Mithalwen

Wolf Kill: Kath

Day 2

Hunt: Mithalwen

Lynch: Elf-Warrior

Night 3

Dream: Rikae

Protect: Sally

Hunt: Mithalwen

Wolf Kill: Kath

Day 3

Hunt: Nilpaurion

Lynch: Nilpaurion

Night 4

Dream: Aganzir

Protect: Eomer

Hunt: Shasta

Wolf Kill: Durelin

Day 4

Lynch: Mithalwen

Night 5

Protect: Rikae

Hunt: Shasta

Wolf Kill: Sally

Day 5

Lynch: Shasta

Night 6

Hunt: Boromir

Wolf Kill: Formendacil

Day 6

Lynch: Boromir

Night 7

Hunt: Rikae

Wolf Kill: Eomer

Day 7

Lynch: Eonwe

Night 8

Wolf Kill: Nogrod

Day 8

Lynch: Aganzir

Rikae

07-19-2008, 04:51 PM

I can't believe Aganzir's case against me was made with good intent! Come on, Brinn, Agan's the secret cobbler, right?

Shastanis Althreduin

07-19-2008, 04:51 PM

I do like how at one point or another every gifted targeted Rikae.

Edit: X'd with the object of my post, how ironic.

satansaloser2005

07-19-2008, 05:00 PM

Yay! *celebrates*

And you, you ungrateful little fuzzbuckets.... *slaps the wolves, just for effect* But we won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Nogrod

07-19-2008, 05:25 PM

It was great to see a game going to the end after a long time! These games are one good reason to play these games one after another (even if I myself had no opportunity to follow it to the bitter end).

Thanks Brinn for the genuine idea and the beautiful implementation of it! I loved the narrations – and especially mine: I would be just that guy myself – not such a looney possibly (which of us likes to be portrayed an idiot?) but the one to go and try it that way just believing things could be changed...

Congrats wolves! You were a sneaky team indeed!

Nerwen: You totally fooled me! Yes, I had only scant possibilities ond Days 1 and 2 to read and play but nevertheless you managed to convince me about you being innocent whom the others just suspected because of your IC-posts... How wrong I was!

Mith: Soo sorry! But I just felt you were a wolf this time and even if I wished to see you in the game - as I always do - I needed to see you lynched. It's not usual for me to be that confident but now I was. I just knew it from Day2-3 onwards...

Boro: Oh you devious wolf you! ;) My only credit is that I finally managed to write it open that I suspected you - and why I did it - before you started your ranger-show... A risk taken and won by you! Kudos. Your vote on Mith kept me away from attacking you full forwards as it made me insecure about that before your show-off which kind of changed everything...

Kitanna: Isn't it ironic that I suspected you heavily the first Days you were innocent and when you finally were turned into a wolf I jusat "forgot" you? Oh my! I was coming back with my suspicions but I never got there... *bows for cunningness & Night-boldness* (*not loving evasive victories though*)

And the special one:

Sally: You're "the natural born cobbler"! And you played it well indeed! I mean you really helped the evil-side win! Absolutely fantastic!

And a cheer to our gifteds!

Dury: It was such a fun to read your posts again! So sad you had to die so early. I'd bet a million the wolves got lucky that Night! Now what were your actual dreams?

Eomer: Gallant as ever and fun to play with (even if it took time for you to realise I was innocent). But battling it out with our ranger! :rolleyes:

Shasta: Sooooooooooo sorrrry! Well, I tried to PM you after you were lynched but your PM-box was full (hopefully for the reason some others felt bad too). But as I said in the game already, it was not that Boro is someone who has been here longer but just because a false-revealment just didn't seem to make sense - and oh, how I pondered it only to realise it later there was a sense in it! Just don't overdo the "being controversial enough not to be killed by Night" -stuff the next time - I haven't learned it yet but maybe you could.

And kudos to the villagers! It was a nice & crowded one! I don't have time to thank you all now but just a few ones I can come forwards right now...

Aganzir: I know you're a wolf more than half of the games you play and that leads me to suspect you all the time. Your chosen tactics of playing it the way you did, didn't quite ease my suspicions - added to the way you voted. Sorry I suspected you so heavily. We could have played it fine together!

Rikae: You were on this game less than normally and I understood it as I was myself able to play less than normal... But you were just so sensible that I had to suspect you for that! (now what does that tell us of WW-games in general?) And so sad as it sounds, your individual behaviour happened to turn out "defending the wolves" and thence arousing my suspicions. Good game from you, sadly it was not enough...

Eönwë: One more sorry to be voiced! You really made yourself look suspicious in the beginning but then got much better... Sadly it was easy to interpret that as getting some Nightly advices... Also you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time as Kath's kill pointed towards you so nicely... It was no problem in the early Days but in the end I thought it started to look like we had to check that out just to be sure.

Formendacil: Somehow your last posts during the Day you were almost lynched made me believe in your innocense. They just felt like it. It was nice to play a game with you that lasted more than one Day! Appreciated your game - but not your Day1 vote... :)

Boromir88

07-19-2008, 06:11 PM

An amazing job Kitanna, I knew you could do it. :D

Sorry you had to leave us Nerwen, and sorry we couldn't sacrifice you. To tell you the truth, I didn't think we deserved to have a new wolf, because Nerwen informed us she had things come up and we had the sinister plan of lynching her that day. I wasn't intending on getting tied in too closely, but the more and more Elf-warrior kept begging to get lynched ( :rolleyes: ) the harder I tried to get all of you after Nerwen.

Mith and I were laughing because of all the talk about our strategy, we really didn't have anything "pre-planned." (The only thing being trying to sacrifice Nerwen). Everything else we just kind of went with, an "in the moment" sort of thing. I don't know if I told Kitanna, but my other partners knew I was going to act as an ordinary innocent and jump on anything I thought was suspicious (whether they were my teammates or not). And I think it was Mith's reminder that we didn't "know" anything that helped me the most.

I guess I could tell everyone what I sent Shasta after you all lynched him ( :evil laugh: ). This is the play-by-play of what all went through my head in about 3 minutes:
Since I caused you a maddening headache and such frustration you will be first to hear my reasons for the fake reveal.

The best case scenario is we lynch an innocent kill you during the night and it's 5-2. So, it still takes 2 more days for a win. The problem I was considered extremely innocent and yet I was still alive, so I didn't know if I could keep the charade up for 2 more days. That was the best case.

So, I thought you might not have used your protection yet, and if we go after you during the night, you stop the kill, it's 6-2 and we have 2 known innocents. That wasn't good. Or we could risk it and kill the hunter hoping we go into the next day 5-2. It still takes 2 more days to win.

That's when I thought you had to go today, I wasn't going to risk you preventing another kill at night, so you had to go today. I back tracked a bit and considered killing an innocent, setting you up tomorrow, but in order for that to work I would probably have had to claim to be the ranger tomorrow. Who would believe me then when I was around at the deadline and I let you get away while we lynch an innocent? I did some final number crunching and if I was successful after all of this it would be 4-1 and it would still take 2 days to win. And plus you wouldn't be there at night to stop a kill. The hunter might be a problem but he's not during the day if his suspicions are wrong.

Thus the conclusion I reached was with already the suspicion around you the last couple days, and no one suspecting me, they would believe me if I just came out right there and claimed to be the ranger. Because why would a wolf Boro do such a thing right?

And I'm telling you this because I honestly believe it, you did great for your first time as gifted, truly an admirable ranger. (My 2 times as a Ranger I've had no successful protections and I believe I've protected more wolves than innocents). Not only that but you even left a clue for everyone if you died! I swear after you said that I thought I was dead. I thought you just outplayed me and my evil plan was going to blow right up in my face. You just had the unfortunate circumstance of being in a village that likes to overthink everything.

So there you have my reasoning before anyone else. When all is said and done they will realize you had a wonderful performance, and I did what I did because I thought we had to get rid of you during the day, to stop you from stopping us at night.
So, Shasta, sorry you got caught up in an evil bluff, but as I said in the game...that was just the way it had to be. Also, something else I took into consideration was I had just made a defense of monstorous proportions for Nogrod (and yes, Nogrod, I was hoping to use that to my advantage), I had added on to Aganzir's suspicion of Kit, and a big reason I did it was because the last wolf was Kit. :)

Kitanna

07-19-2008, 09:19 PM

Danke, for all who thought I played well. I thought I'd have a fight ahead of me today. I figured I'd be the first to vote and I'd have to make a serious case against either Rikae or Aganzir. But when I woke up this morning and logged on all I had to do was pick randomly.

Well played by all and an excellent mod job, Brinn.

Durelin

07-19-2008, 09:23 PM

I almost mentioned the idea that Nerwen had actually informed her fellows ahead of time that she was going to have to drop out. But I didn't want to get into the fairness of everything...

I also almost dreamt of Boro my first Night, to sorta keep up a one-time tradition. *sigh*

My plan wasn't to dream of just big names or whoever the village was suspicious of, or eve of people I was suspicious of either. I wanted to dream of people I didn't think I could figure out, and who the village probably wouldn't figure out for a while...as in, people who'd survive. On that at least I'd say I did fairly well. Keeping myself alive...not so good.

Of course my worst moment was completely missing an entire 48 hour period!! Egh.....

I also didn't do so well with leaving clues. I didn't really try to, because I didn't find it worth blowing any cover by throwing around random "this person is innocent...I just feel it" statements to point to my dreams. Interestingly, only Boro read me properly, noticing statements about Form and Rikae.

I'm so glad you were innocent, Nog, because I so felt you had to be. It seems like we think along the same lines at points only when we are both innocent. We both should have kept after Kitanna. :p

Congrats to the wolves! Boro, that was insane. Mith, you were so cool. Kitanna...that was painful to watch. ;)

Finally...one big SORRY to Shasta. You really were starting to remind me a bit of myself and a bit of TGWBS as wolves... :D And I'm afraid I would have lynched you after Boro's stunt, too. We've never seen anything like that. Well...the game when there ended up three people claiming to be seers (CoD as a wolf and Gil as an ordo both claimed to be the seer after the real seer revealed...) was madness...

Nerwen

07-19-2008, 09:29 PM

I almost mentioned the idea that Nerwen had actually informed her fellows ahead of time that she was going to have to drop out.

Just to clarify this: I didn't know until after Day 2. It was just a possibility.

Durelin

07-19-2008, 09:32 PM

Oh, I dreamt of Form Night 1 because I don't recall ever playing with him (apologies if I have...just ask Aganzir, my memory sucks). Besides thinking they would survive a while, I dreamt of Rikae because she's Rikae and especially with our WW history I didn't think I'd ever figure her out. I dreamt of Aganzir after Nilp was revealed innocent, also because I didn't think I'd ever figure her out.

Not that I think I can figure anyone out. Nooo way.

Edit: Nerwen - That was part of why I didn't mention it, because I didn't want to accuse anyone of anything. Really don't mean to, especially because I wouldn't have any problem with it even if it was all planned ahead really.

Shastanis Althreduin

07-19-2008, 10:14 PM

Oh yes.

I protected Kath because I expected the wolves to continue the pattern of attempting to kill someone who would leave no trace. :p And because she hadn't been able to participate yet.

Sally was a random draw as I had no clue that day.

Eomer because I imagined he was Hunting me that day, and if I imagined it, so might the wolves, and his ability would go to waste.

Rikae because she was the person who seemed the most innocent to me at the time. Also because she was loud and drawing attention.

Then I DIED. :p

Formendacil

07-19-2008, 10:26 PM

time. Also because she was loud and drawing attention.

Then I DIED. :p

Yes... sorry about my part in that. I was 100% ready to believe you when I first reading your coming out post--despite your vote for me the day previous--but then Boromir came out, and I was in a quandary. I just couldn't see Boromir faking it unless he was in some sort of trouble as a wolf--and as he said, he was as clean-looking as a baby.

I will not make that mistake again, ever. Sorry, Boro.

I'm also quite pleasantly surprised to see that both Nogrod and Aganzir were innocents, since this accords, despite misgivings, with my general instincts. I'm vaguely disappointed Rikae wasn't a wolf, though I must say that Kitanna fully deserved to win, given that she barely registered on my radar at all during the game, and never as a guilty party.

Very sorry, Mith to have stolen the last-minute save from you there, but I really can't say I'm sorry to have survived another day... though there WAS a little part of me that wanted sweet, sweet vindication of Proven Innocent status--notwithstanding that it would set the village back farther and lead to the rest of your deaths.

And... that's all the random after-game comments I have at the moment. A failure to comment personally is in no way intended as a personal insult... just so the rest of you know.

Whoever you are...:p

Brinniel

07-20-2008, 02:09 AM

Thanks to everyone for participating in my game. It's the first one I've modded (though certainly not the last), and I really enjoyed watching everything play out from a new perspective. And I'm simply quite surprised how long it lasted...I don't think many games last eight Days.

I have to say the hardest part was having to decide whether to bring in a new wolf or not when Nerwen dropped out...I'm such an indecisive person, so it really did help to get people's opinions on the matter. And I admit even after I made the decision, I wavered on whether I made the right choice, worrying that I gave the wolves too much an advantage. But as I watched the Days and Nights play out, I think in the end the game was fairly balanced...or at least I hope so. I probably should've put four wolves into the game in the first place...I seriously considered it. Previous games with approx. 20 players have had both 3 and 4 wolves, so I figured it could work either way. And who knows...perhaps the wolves still could've won even if I didn't add a fourth wolf.

To the wolves-

Mithalwen: Though you got lynched, it was only really due to an unlucky roll of a die (sorry about that). I thought you played very well and didn't seem terribly wolfish to me at all. Btw, you were spot on with Durelin (I recall it was your PM that mentioned the possibility of her being the seer?)

Nerwen: I'm really sorry you had to leave, but as always, RL happens. You did a great job playing the loud wolf who's "too obvious to actually be a wolf." Considering that it was mostly Boromir who was gunning for you on Day 2 (for reasons I didn't discover until later), who knows how much longer you could've survived if you didn't have to drop out. Maybe only a couple Days...or perhaps much longer..

Boromir: What a clever wolf you are. I think you went after all your teammates at one time or another (a strategy I've been tempted to play), and it really helped you slip under the radar. Had you not revealed as the ranger, I think there was a chance you could've survived until the ends. Like the others, I was confused as to why you did it...until I thought it through and understood. It was a smart sacrifice that ultimately helped you win...having Shasta still around could've been a dangerous obstacle.

Kitanna: As I think I already mentioned to you, if I had put in four wolves to begin with, I'm quite sure you would've been the fourth anyway. I have to say, you are a sneaky wolf and played brilliantly. I found it rather amusing that several people found you more suspicious before you turned, and later disregarded you as innocent. Only a truly great wolf can pull that off.

And Sally the spammer: Silly wolves for killing you off...I couldn't see what was so innocent about you. You caused a bit of trouble for the village. Especially when you helped keep Mith from the noose by voting Nilp on Day 3. I must ask...did you know she was a wolf?

To the Gifteds-

Durelin: I was sorry to see you killed so early...especially when I noticed that two of your dreams were among the final three. And even though you never dreamt of Mith, I think your death and vote for her was what helped get her lynched the next Day.

Shasta: Oh what a mean thing Boromir did to you. But hey...it's all part of the game, and he had good reasons behind it. It's unfortunate no one believed you, I felt bad as they all voted for you. But don't let that get you down. You did an excellent job as the ranger and I'm glad I picked you. Not only did you manage to save Kath on Night 2, but you never actually protected a wolf...which is pretty well done, if I may say so.

Eomer: You were right on the money in the beginning with Mithalwen. You were so right, that I was a bit surprised when you changed your mind about her (before you sent the hunt, I thought you were bluffing). And then you revealed...which wasn't such a bad thing, since it left quite an obstacle for the wolves. After all, if they didn't fear you, they would've killed you earlier on.

And to the ordos...you all certainly kept me entertained. While some of you were quite a ways off on some suspicions, there were others who completely accurate with your suspicions.

Anyway, there's so much more I'd like to say but it's getting late and I have a headache, so I think I'll stop for now. Again, well played to everyone. I will be sending reps to all the players as soon as I get the chance.

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-20-2008, 03:56 AM

Great game everyone, I really enjoyed myself. :)

Wolf team: well done on winning! The sweet, sweet glory is yours. Of course, special praise to Kitanna, who has one-upped me again. I tell you, that's not the first time she's consigned me to defeat, and whenever I do get to win she's always there to share in the victory. :p

Shasta... :D That was quite something. Boromir totally fooled me. I'm still not sure it was totally beneficial to the wolves to do that, but oh well. It worked out for them in the end.

Special praise to Brinniel for the great concept and the highly amusing narrations.

Boromir88

07-20-2008, 08:12 AM

Eomer, well it wasn't wise, I left Kitanna to fend for herself, and for me I took the easy way out. See I thought about building up a case to lynch another innocent and then risk it and kill you at night...(that was probably the best choice). But, that would have meant I had to go dig up more garbage on an unlucky victim...and I got lazy. Also, when I said I didn't have the guts to kill you, I meant it, I told Kitanna I thought your assurance of my innocence was all an act, and you were trapping us.

Form, but what if I'm telling the truth next time?

Rikae

07-20-2008, 08:13 AM

Wow, I just realized -
I was right about there wolfish activity behind the narrowing of the field to Shasta and Mith. Take that, everybody! :p Kitanna, did you decide to sacrifice Mith assuming Durelin actually had dreamt of her?
I have to say, the wolf team in this game was one of the best I've ever seen. Mith really appeared perfectly normal to me. Boro's plan was bold and brilliant, and Kitanna did a great job of looking innocent after she was turned. I really should have considered more seriously the possibility her attack on Mith was wolf-on-wolf, but being under so much pressure at that point I didn't think I'd have a choice in my vote anyway, and I wanted to vote first to show a (hopefully) innocent Kitanna that I was innocent too. :rolleyes:
Aganzir, I basically played the whole game with little concern about looking innocent until the last day, since as an ordo I figured I had nothing to lose - so I'm not too surprised you ended up finding me wolfish.

Kitanna

07-20-2008, 09:59 AM

Kitanna, did you decide to sacrifice Mith assuming Durelin actually had dreamt of her?

Yeah, when I saw Durelin was the seer I decided to use it as evidence of Mith's wolvery. Sorry about that Mith dear.

Formendacil

07-20-2008, 12:57 PM

Well, Boro, I guess there would be disastrous consequences... if I was an ordo again.

And yes, many thanks to Brinn for her moderating. The regularity of it, especially, is commendable from one who, way back in the day, found that the hardest part of moderating... together with coming up with new ways to kill people...

Nilpaurion Felagund

07-20-2008, 06:16 PM

satansaloser2005

07-20-2008, 10:24 PM

Meh, I feel useless as an ordo.

I'm good for nothing but looking (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=562158&postcount=305) for Seers (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=505658&postcount=29). *pouts*

Ah, well, at least my mummie's side won. :D Well-played, Kitanna, never suspected you at all.

Heh. Yeah, sorry about that sweetie. It was between you and Mith and I was almost positive you weren't a wolf (I thought Mith might be, but of course I wasn't sure) so I had to kill you. *shifty eyes*

By the by, why did you all kill me? Hehe I'd hatched a brilliant plan because there was no way I'd not be lynched after saving Mith two or three times in a row, so....well, it wasn't particularly brilliant but I was going to either cause complete and utter chaos or tell you all that I was the ranger because we needed him out of the way and I knew that the ranger wouldn't sit back and watch me get credit for their (well, his, now that we know who it was) spectacular save. *grins evilly*

Nerwen

07-20-2008, 11:10 PM

Don't look at me– I wasn't there.

–Kudos to Sally and Eomer for picking Mith so early. I really don't know how you did it! I swear she wasn't acting suspicious.

–By the way, Eomer, we wolves noticed your Seer-act on Day One. We just saw through it.:p That's why you weren't killed.

satansaloser2005

07-20-2008, 11:26 PM

Don't look at me– I wasn't there.

Heh. No, I blame it all on you. ;)

By the way, Boro, major kudos for making people believe you were the ranger. That whole ordeal just made my day. *chuckles*

And kudos for Shasta himself for the amazing Kath save and his breadcrumb posts. (I about died when I saw it.)

Obviously, everyone did really well, but let's see....off the top of my head....

Kit, I didn't have any idea you were the last wolf. Very sneakily done.

Agan....erm, nice job getting lynched the last day? ;) No, you did really well, just a bit of a rough day there toward the last. It happens.

Nerwen, I'm really sorry you had to drop out, because you were doing well, and it would have been great for you to stay on the team. Sadly, it wasn't meant to be.

Eomer did a fantastic job as well, and when I saw your name on the list of the dead I was scared for a bit that you'd caught one of my "friends" (my internet wouldn't load the page right) and you were amazing in general.

And why did I keep thinking Form was a wolf? Probably because I pretty much suck at this. Heh. Well, I have something to base him off of for next game, and you were excellent even if I did try to get you killed a lot. (I couldn't get the Formwolf image out of my head, even though I was almost positive he wasn't....I would have been quite angry with myself had I gotten him lynched and he turned out to indeed be lupine)

Brinn, excellent modding. Fantastic. The narrations made me giggle a lot and the game idea was amazing. Very nice. :)

Oh, and Sixth. Sorry, buddy, you understand. I really wanted you to stick around, but you were easy enough to lynch and I didn't want to risk killing Nerwen on the off chance (which occured, mind you) that she was a wolf. Pleasure sort of playing with you. Maybe next game you can actually stay alive long enough to have some fun.

Obviously, you were all fantastic, but I should probably toddle off and do something productive. Nicely done everyone (I'll try to get around to repping you all eventually) and good game! *cough* Go wolves! *cough*

~~Sally~~

Eomer of the Rohirrim

07-20-2008, 11:35 PM

Seer act? Explain. :cool:

I just love causing Mithalwen annoyance and mischief. :p

Aganzir

07-21-2008, 07:34 AM

I can't believe Aganzir's case against me was made with good intent! Come on, Brinn, Agan's the secret cobbler, right?
Yeah. :-D

Your chosen tactics of playing it the way you did, didn't quite ease my suspicions - added to the way you voted. Sorry I suspected you so heavily.
Ha! Shouldn't it be me to apologize? ;) I didn't actually choose my tactics of playing - it just happened. And, well, voting... Let's say this wasn't one of my best games. :D What's wrong with me when lynching Mith has been ok for me all day but just before the deadline I change my mind?

I have to say, the wolf team in this game was one of the best I've ever seen.
Seconded.

I'm not sure if I would have catched Nerwen if not for that Agan/Nilp/Form brawl. Day 1 was a day I decided to be a difficult person (that happens occasionally) and just kept questioning about things that were seemingly minor at first glance. And then I got the feeling that I might be right after all.

When someone mentioned Mith hadn't said she's innocent, I grew wary of her. I was pretty confident either she or Nog was a wolf - first I agreed with her about Nog, but then started suspecting her. However, she just managed to look quite innocent to me on that last day...

I will never ever want to play with Boro again! That was nasty. I was annoyed when no one else seemed to find Nerwen worth a vote, and was completely ready to believe in your innocence when you considered voting for her.
Though I'm quite happy that I believed Shasta rather than you when you both claimed to be the ranger... Unfortunately it was only after the day ending when Shasta had already been lynched. :rolleyes:

Kitanna, like I said on day 8 (without thinking that might really be the case), you deserve to win. I was pretty sure of your guilt since day 1 (he-he), but unfortunately for me, you started looking more innocent when the number of the villagers reduced. And then I was so sure about Rikae that I didn't even consider voting for you.

Also, great job Shasta. If it is of any comfort, I can tell I know how it feels to first battle with the hunter and then get lynched... :-D I didn't get your hints, but I remembered you saying Kath looked honest and Nog seizing on it. When I checked it, I realised you were rather talking about her vote, but there was something that gave the impression of knowing better. I thought you could also be a wolf, but you really looked too innocent for that. Only when people really started suspecting you did I become unsure.

Last but not least, thanks so much Brinn! The narrations were funny, and the idea of the game turned out well (I remember you sitting on Nogrod's sofa what feels like a long time ago and telling us about your plans).

Mithalwen

07-21-2008, 11:20 AM

Seer act? Explain. :cool:

I just love causing Mithalwen annoyance and mischief.

Ah but Eomer, you don't realise that I knew you were the hunter immediately which is why you weren't killed until after I died. You were far too unsubtle to be the seer. You were more or less saying "Kill me and I'll kill Mith" - and you kept on wondering why we didn't. I am not so green as cabbage looking.

And yesI picked Durelin but it was only for Kit's sake that I didn't tell you to kill Nogrod.

As for my Packmates - full marks to Nerwen for steadying my nerves on night one - I thought we might end up doing a Thelma and Louise the next day!!!

Boro is lucky a, that he is one of the few people on the planet who can tell me to relax when I am stressed out and not get his head ripped off ;) - and with him incommunicado and Nerwen on her way out it was a bit fraught. I was a very lonely wolf that weekend. So the attempt on Kath was my idea. It wasn't such a backfire as it seemed in the time - and the reasons I stated openly, though of course that didn't stop you lot continuing to speculate!!b, that we won since I thought it was an unnecessary risk And besides confessing is MY trick.

By the way all of you who went "Mith hasn't said she is innocent yet so she's a wolf - well Ihad resolved I wouldn't do that spontaneaously before I got my role. But if I had been asked directly while online I would have surely lied. You lazy blighters will have to make up your own minds... I would have made more of a defence but I had told Boromir to do what he had to do to make himself look good from the beginning as once Nerwen and I had attracted suspicion he had the best chance of going the distance. Another reason why I rode the storm of Eomer and didn't really defend myself against Nogrod. I couldn't decide how to do it without incriminating Kit who had done such a good hatchet job. And I hoped that Nogrod's certainty might incriminate him. As Boro said, my mantra was "only wolves are certain". The fact that I was only lynched by a coin toss has given me a lot of confidence in my wolvish abilities so be afraid , be very afraid. After all there is a chance I might get to be a wolf when I don't have PMT ... when the difference between me and a werewolf is negligible anyway:p

Durelin - I can't believe you didn't dream of me - my hunch you were the seer was based on your resolute suspicion of me - but I think you were suggested originally because you fell into the very dangerous but so far quiet category.

As for Kitanna - fantastic.... I should point out that even with the extra day we weren't able to discuss as such before she started. I am very grateful that Brinn and the rest of you gave her to us especially since we hadn't particularly wanted a new wolf at the time! I had felt it might be as incriminating as helpful and said it was up to Boro (because he was likeliest to survive) and he had said we would go it alone! However Kitanna would have been my first choice if we had been given the choice with the state of play as it was and we were truly blessed.

Brinn - I loved my death scene - I was summarily executed in my first game and so always particularly appreciate a good death. Now can I have my coat back?