Tol-in-Gaurhoth L: Battle of the Fandoms

[Nogrod]

When is the deadline?About twenty minutes...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Quick correction: the list in question was by the known wolf CaptainofDespair, not Nogrod. (Nerwen)Ach so. :o I was confused what with that statement coming so hard upon the heels of his strong accusation of Nogrod.

[satansaloser2005]

Shoot shoot shoot shoot! *mutters and flails* Back in five minutes with THE most watered down "what I think" post ever.



I'm still wondering why everyone (well, not everyone, but you know what I mean) thinks Gwath is so guilty. I'll have a look at it toNight and see where that vibe seems to be coming from.

Back in five. Ish. Hopefully less.

EDIT: x'd, I'm sure.

[Macalaure]

Mith -> Gwathagor
Boro -> Lal
Fea -> Boro
Izzy -> Nogrod
Gwath -> Nogrod (Nog 2, Boro, Lal, Gwath 1)
Caber -> Sally (Nog 2, Sally, Boro, Lal, Gwath 1)
Rikae -> Caber (Nog 2, Caber, Sally, Boro, Lal, Gwath 1)

There's no better way to give only two wolves voting power than to spread the votes like that. :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Good point, and then he casts a throw away vote for Gwath. Something I'm not used to seeing from Nogrod. I remember back when we were all younger Mith going on about Nogrod's need to stay until the dead line and poll/organize the voting. And Nogrod was doing that yesterday, it's a really nice thing to at least have some order at dead line, if that person isn't a wolf. What's so strange about Nogrod, is after polling around, being involved, trying to see the options (and saying Brin would be the best choice) he chooses to stay out of the action and cast a throw away vote.
Hmm...well I think his vote can point either way. I've seen an innocent Nogrod make a throwaway vote at the end of deadline before...

Well, I'm not looking for any sort of alliance (despite what Rikae says ). When I have no sort of gifted information, my only hope of getting a wolf is putting my trust in certain people. I genuinely think I can trust you and Mith, and so far you've done nothing to make me think otherwise. It's not like I'm looking for some sort of tribal pact where we agree not to vote for eachother. I might not agree with who you suspect, you probably don't agree with mine, but generally I trust you're being helpful, in a good way, thus you're innocent. If you're a wolf, congrats you've fooled me, next chance our paths cross we'll see if you can do it again.
I'm glad you trust me (and I promise I'm not fooling you), but I just can't help but wonder if I can trust you. Bah, I think my mind's still stuck on last game; phantom repeatedly said he trusted me as an innocent (and I think that's what caused me to hesitate in voting him)...then of course he turned out to be a wolf. I just don't want that to happen again. :rolleyes:

For the record, Mac and Brinn, I said I thought Lal looked innocent.
I was just commenting about what you said in post #187.

Nilp (and Brinn) what is this about Boro/Nog chumminess? Are you suggesting they are wolves together? That doesn't seem particularly likely, and it seems even less likely that, if they were, they would let any obvious "chumminess" show (in fact, I would expect one to get the other lynched, more probably).
Or are you suggesting that one is a wolf "buttering up" the other one? Does either of you have any specific quotes you'd like to point to? As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her).
Sorry, but I'm really confused. I can't recall ever mentioning the Boro/Nogrod relationship...

Lal's behaviour is a bit a odd toDay. Being so convinced she's the next wolf kill (I can still see better candidates) and also some mixup on the rules (retractable votes). But is this odd behaviour wolfish? I'm not sure...

[Nogrod]

There's no better way to give only two wolves voting power than to spread the votes like that. :rolleyes:Exactly.

Funny thing you said Sally, of people thinking Gwath is generally felt suspicious. There's me... then...?

So over-reacting or just not reading anything from the thread (but why then make the comment?)?

[Macalaure]

Since I wouldn't like to see Nogrod go now, I think I'll vote for one of the given candidates (unless a secure Brinn-waggon suddenly appears). I'm leaning towards voting for Boro, with Sally and Gwath as possible second choices.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Danke for the list, Mac.

Hmm, and yes, voting for Brinniel does nothing. Suspect #2, however, already has a vote.

Ergo:

++Gwathagor

[Nogrod]

So a last minute madness to come then?

At this situation I might vote for Sally... mainly because of yeterDay's end actions... possibly Boro for cobblery.

[satansaloser2005]

Forced? tsk-tsk... I already told you the nature of them, testing whether they would hold. And looking at how you will react to them.

Illogical? No way. Sorry. Very much logical indeed (which doeasn't mean they are correct as the premises need to be correct for a deduction to bring forwards a true outcome - and we don't yet know the truth-value of the premises).

Exaggerative? That's in your eyes my friend. I'd like to remind you that the wolves think they're under tons of pressure when they in fact are not.

So you find me suspicious because I have suspected you? Retaliation then? If you're an inocent that's very bad playing. If you're a wolf I'd understand, but a good wolf would also know better if not under a direct death-threat.


Next stops, reconsidering Brinn & looking at Sally...




Quicklike. Sorry, I haven't counted the votes so I really have no idea what's going on in that direction. *mutters and flails again*

See quote above? I read the thread last night and noted that Noggie's been on Gwath like Captain Jack on a TARDIS. I still don't see Gwath's big fault, he looks innocent to me, and it makes me think Nog is grasping at straws. Besides, why kill Gwath? It's the same reason I didn't vote for Captain yesterDay; not enough information from him (although I turned out to be right, dang it! heh) that I felt comfortable killing him. Maybe I'll agree with the case against Gwath at some point, but right now it feels too forced, and the post I quoted doesn't help things.

I'm sorry I couldn't explain more, but I don't want to completely spam you people like ten minutes before DL, so I'll just vote.

++Noggie


EDIT: x'd pretty much since my last post. sorry if I'm a bit muddled

[Rikae]

Brinn[/B]]I was just commenting about what you said in post #187.
Not a suspicion, but a request for clarification.

Sorry, but I'm really confused. I can't recall ever mentioning the Boro/Nogrod relationship...
Maybe I mixed you up with someone else... I'll have to go back and find the person who said that (I remember thinking it didn't seem reasonable, and less when Nilp echoed it.)

[Brinniel]

Rikae's recent posts make me a bit uncomfortable. I won't vote her toDay (no need to spread the votes anymore), but I want a better look at her toMorrow. I'm also not ready to vote Lal but she's also someone I definitely need to take a closer look at. And Nilp...who seems to be jumping on other people's comments. Hmmm.

Best I stick with voting my original top two suspects. So will it be Nogrod or Sally?

[satansaloser2005]

So a last minute madness to come then?

At this situation I might vote for Sally... mainly because of yeterDay's end actions... possibly Boro for cobblery.



Oooo, there's an interesting angle. I thought Boro was possibly furry(ish) yesterDay. I totally forgot we had a cobbler.



P.S. In my last post, I didn't clarify very well at all. Noggie sounded like he was trying to defend his accusations, which I still think are a bit silly by the way. (Not silly so much as semi-unfounded)


Off for a drink. Back in a minute (literally)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Maybe I mixed you [Brinniel] up with someone else... I'll have to go back and find the person who said that (I remember thinking it didn't seem reasonable, and less when Nilp echoed it.) (Rikae the not-copier)Aw, c'mon, Mistress Rikae, that's not the way to get me lynched. ;) :p

[Lalwendë]

Out of my 3 candidates, I'm taking a punt on the idea of a wolf-on-wolf vote early yesterday, so I'm voting:

++McCaber



Lal's behaviour is a bit a odd toDay. Being so convinced she's the next wolf kill (I can still see better candidates) and also some mixup on the rules (retractable votes). But is this odd behaviour wolfish? I'm not sure...

No I'm just a clown and didn't read the rules properly ;)

[Macalaure]

If I can't get Boro, I'd prefer Gwath over Sally.

[Nogrod]

Oh Sally... If you're innocent learn the better from this then. You guys lynched me in the last game in just the similar way: when in doubt lynch the one who has been controversial. But is exatly the opposite!

Wolves don't wish to be controversial. They wish to be your buddies and rub you the right way. We need to do the "dirty bussiness" to trigger people into posting seriously - the wolves especially.

[Brinniel]

++Sally

Explanation coming...

[Macalaure]

++Gwathagor

(edit: crossed with Brinn... great...)

[Nerwen]

Running out of time...

++Boro.

EDIT: X'd with Sally and Macalaure.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh Sally... If you're innocent learn the better from this then. You guys lynched me in the last game in just the similar way: when in doubt lynch the one who has been controversial. But is exatly the opposite!

Wolves don't wish to be controversial. They wish to be your buddies and rub you the right way. We need to do the "dirty bussiness" to trigger people into posting seriously - the wolves especially.

And the last game in which you were a wolf you duped me like no other. Nothing personal, I'm not bitter about it, I just don't want to be fooled again. If you are innocent I'm truly sorry, but I'd rather err on the side of caution than of calamity.

[Nogrod]

++ Gwath

[Durelin]

Gwathagor just couldn’t deal with these people. They lived in their own little worlds. Worthless hobbies consume their lives. And they were all mad.

Werewolves?

What were they on? Didn’t they even stop to think about more logical explanations?

Somehow this Nogrod fellow was the worst. He seemed to believe in his own personal creation story. Something about ‘procedurally-generated’ and ‘open-ended gameplay’. As if the existence as they knew it was a game. It was frightening, the direction the world was headed in. These were certainly the living consequences of the Internet.

Gwathagor greatly desired to be among people of superior intelligence. Cultured people. This was not culture. Right now at the conference he could be listening to a Classicist compare Suetonius’ Life of Nero and “Commodus Antonius” from Aelius Lampridius’ Scriptores Historiae Augustae. Because that wasn’t completely inane.*

Of course it was not long before the lunatic nerdlings realized that he did not belong there, and so he was singled out in these sick, primitive proceedings. He had seen what they did to that other one…of course he had not exactly been sorry to see him go, but…

The mob surrounded him – there was no way to escape. As they pummeled and stabbed him, he cried, “I’m still alive!”

The con-goers were not sure if he was mocking them or just crazy. Soon he lay still, and the mob looked down at the fresh corpse with disappointment. He was only a man.

(*This Classicist-in-training wrote about this, so its random inclusion is both egotistical and self-deprecating. Wee!)

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge
Kath (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Tortured and ripped apart by the wolves on Night 2
Gwathagor (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Assassinated by con-goers on Day 2.


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Brinniel - 'Reality' TV Fan
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies


Right, so... Night 3 has begun. Wolves, PM away, send me your kill. Seer, send me your dream; Ranger, let me know who you want to protect.

[Brinniel]

I was going to vote Nogrod, but this bandwagon against him worries me that I might be horribly wrong. Sally...her voting has been rather suspicious...

EDIT: X-ed with deadline...sorry, my computer's being annoyingly slow.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nogrod 3

Caber and Gwath 2

Lal, Boro, Sally 1

~*~

Hmm, all this 'looking more closely at Nilp' will do me tons of good tomorrow. ;) I get to go in a blaze of plus-pluses, and it gives me less things to occupy me--general busyness, I realised, is burdensome enough. :D

[Durelin]

The pair of werewolves knew exactly where to find their next victim – all they had to do was follow the obnoxious crooning of Alicia Keys. Climbing up the side of the hotel to the second floor, they slipped through the open window. Teeth bared, they were ready to pounce. But Brinniel was too busy singing, with much passion, into her iPod as if it were a microphone.

One of the wolves came up behind her and ripped the ‘earbuds’ out of her ears. She continued singing for another line before she realized that she could no longer hear the music. Brinniel laughed. She just sounded too good – she couldn’t tell the difference.

But then when the woman turned to look for her earbuds, she let out a scream as she saw the two creatures who had been standing right behind her. They smiled wickedly.

“Pfft, okay guys, you got me. What is this, “Scare Tactics” or something else? Dorks.”

The wolves’ cruel smiles faltered slightly. Then they growled angrily as the girl ignored them, and started searching the room for the camera.

“You are going to die,” one of the werewolves growled menacingly.

Brinniel turned back to them for a moment. “But I thought you could only be voted off this stupid show!” she cried indignantly.

“Stupid girl,” the werewolves barked. Suddenly one of them had its claws at her throat. “This is reality!” they howled, as the claws ripped through flesh.

~*~

Again the werewolves left the gruesome corpse of their victim in the convention center. When the con-ies arrived the next morning, they found Brinniel hanging in the doorway by her ‘earbuds’. They wondered for a moment if the poor woman had found all of this too much, but then someone gave her a poke. The body slipped from the thin noose, her head remaining precariously above.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge
Kath (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Tortured and ripped apart by the wolves on Night 2
Gwathagor (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Assassinated by con-goers on Day 2.
Brinniel (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Made really dead on Night 3.


~The Living~

Rikae - Stalker of the preciousss Andy Serkis
Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
satansaloser2005 - "Doctor Who" Luuuver
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies


Day 3 has begun!

[Lalwendë]

Your resident psephologist has been waiting to bung the votes on so here goes before I make the tea ;)

Rikae - Sally / McCaber
Nerwen - ??? / Boro
Fea - Boro / Boro
Boro - Lal / Lal
Nilp - ??? / Gwath
Nogrod - Gwath / Gwath
Gwath (deceased) - Rikae / Nogrod
Sally - Boro / Nogrod
McCaber - CoD / Sally
Shasta - Boro / ???
Brinn (Deceased) - Mac / Sally
Mith - CoD / Gwath
Isabellkya - CoD / Nogrod
Lalwendë - Brinn / McCaber
Kath (Deceased) - Brinn / n/a
CoD (Deceased) - Day 1 / n/a
Mac - CoD / Gwath

[Nogrod]

Well, well... At least my table is now clean as my two most long-standing suspicions eg. Gwath and Brinn are gone... Bad thing is they were innocents both and the only decent thing we have done so far was the lynching of CoD which seems to have been at least half-luck... :confused:

*Looking at the void of the empty table*

So, refocusing then.

YesterDay's voting was interesting to say the least and I'm going back there right now.

[Macalaure]

Brinn has been killed? Hmm. From the top of my head I can't think of a reason why out of all people she has been chosen. Maybe a closer look at her posts and the posts directed at her will bring more clarity.

Apart from that I have to second Nogrod concerning the voting yesterDay. That was plain madness.

[Mithalwen]

I was able to read through at lunch time and Lalwende continues to ring my alarm bells - particularly for harping on about how she wouldn't survive the night. Hardly a certainty in a game with a living Ranger. And the ignorance of the voting rules .... all seemed a bit contrived "I am just an ordo so I didn't bother to look at the set up thing". Also didn't like her saying she thought I had a special role on day one.

But it is that certainty that she would be killed - yes we all say sometimes that we think we are likely targets but when there is a ranger.... either as someone said a cobbler trying to get a clean kill for the wolves or conceivably a very certain Hunter but we are a bit early for that I guess.

There was something else but I need to read again.

[Isabellkya]

I wonder why Brin was killed.
They could've gone with another trail-less kill.

Here are yesterDay's votes.

Mith -> Gwath (11:02 pm GMT)
Boro -> Lal (3:28 pm GMT)
Fea -> Boro (4:15pm GMT)
Izzy -> Nogrod (4:37 pm)
Gwath -> Nogrod2 (4:55pm)
Caber -> Sally (5:17pm)
Rikae -> Caber (5:28pm)
Nilp -> Gwath2 (5:51pm)
Sally -> Nogrod3 (5:53pm)
Lal -> Caber2 (5:57pm)
Brin -> Sally2 (5:59pm)
Mac -> Gwath3 (5:59pm)
Nerwen -> Boro2 (6:00pm)
Nogrod -> Gwath4 (6:00pm)



I wonder what it says about a person; who's top two suspects for at least a day and a half - both turn out ordo.


X'ed since LAl.

Edit2. Put spacing between names and times. Was jumbly.

[Lalwendë]

Well I was wring with that, wasn't I? Thankfully!

It's what I'd have done if I was a wolf - make it look like one of the ones I'd voted for had killed me. However, it doesn't mean the wolves won't get me tonight, does it? McCaber is still in there.


Edit - that was to Mith ;)

[Isabellkya]

Why are you so certain you are at the top of the wolves' list, Lal?
Why did they pick Brin over you?

[Lalwendë]

Why are you so certain you are at the top of the wolves' list, Lal?
Why did they pick Brin over you?

1. Because I always cop for it early, this time probably because of doing dumb things like forgetting rules, which makes you an easy kill for a wolf.
2. Because they want to stymie my strategies for flushing them out. Plus Brinn was an easy kill, having already attracted suspicion quite widely. Which is yet another reason why I am still a likely kill - some, but not heaps of, suspicions against me.

[McCaber]

However, it doesn't mean the wolves won't get me tonight, does it? McCaber is still in there.

Wait, so does that mean I'm a wolf or an innocent who's likely to get killed soon? With your pessimism, it's probably the former.

Now please stop trying to reverse-psychology the wolves and talk about other people for a change.

[Macalaure]

Things Brinn said yesterDay:
She stated that the CoD-voters were probably innocent, especially me and Mith.
In her list, leaning innocent: McCaber, me, Mith, Isabellkya
Unsure: Nilp, Shasta, Nerwen, Fea, Boro, Rikae, Lal
Leaning guilty: Nogrod, Sally (which later are her voting options, too)
She states that she doesn't return Boro's trust in her. Confused about Rikae and finds Lal odd.
She says she will take a closer look at Rikae.
Votes Sally.

Apart from the short explanations in her list, she sadly doesn't give much reasons for her suspicions of Nogrod and Sally. The Rikae thing might be interesting to keep in mind.


Things said to/about Brinn yesterDay:
There's Boro's theory in #150. Again, why, if he thought her innocent, did he question her that? As a test?
Rikae thinks Brinn is very innocent. Later she changes her mind and she's her second-best suspect (third-best in the end).
Nogrod goes after her because of her defense against Boro's question.
Boro thinks Brinn's defense was sincere and Nogrod's case forced. Nogrod defends his case.
Lal thinks she will be killed if Brinn is a wolf. Later, she states that she doesn't think Brinn is a wolf.
Nerwen doubts a Brinnwolf would have gone after Kath.
I agree with Nogrod's case. I consider a vote for her but decide against it.
Nilp agrees strongly with Nogrod's case. Votes Gwath because he doesn't see enough support for her.
In the end, Nogrod acknowledges Boro's point and relaxes his suspicion.

I still don't like Boro's part in this very much. Nogrod's case looks over-eager in hindsight, mine and Nilp's agreement stupid - if not worse. Nogrod's and Rikae's back-and-forth on Brinniel looks like the outcome of normal ordo unknowingness.

Why was Brinn killed:
There were others who looked more innocent. There were others who left less trails. I don't think what she said would have made Nogwolf or Sallysawolf think she was the seer. I assume that the wolves picked the most talkative villager who didn't leave trails towards them, but that's a risky conclusion. I can't shake off the feeling that there was something deeper behind it. A case against Rikae could be made but would be a stretch, I think.


Voting:
Mith -> Gwath (semi-random vote with a little reason, neither innocent nor suspicious)
Boro -> Lal (said it then, say it now: terrible reasoning)
Fea -> Boro (consistency in pointlessness?)
Isabell -> Nogrod (consistent with her suspicions, not a very suspicious vote)
Gwath -> Nogrod
McCaber -> Sally (consistent and non-suspicious)
Rikae -> McCaber (I don't really understand her case against him)
Nilp -> Gwath (fuel for a counter-bandwaggon to save fellow Nogwolf?)
Sally -> Nogrod (the suspiciousness of this vote largely depends on Nogrod's role)
Lal -> McCaber (keeping a third option alive)
Brinn -> Sally
Me -> Gwath (this vote looks very ugly if Nogrod turns out to be evil)
Nerwen -> Boro (this vote came out of nowhere - Nerwen, why oh why didn't you say a thing before? I would have preferred to vote for him, too, and Nog surely would have followed... if Boro is really evil, this could have been a secure wolf-on-wolf vote)
Nogrod -> Gwath (self-preservance and consistent with his suspicion)

A lot depends on Nogrod's role here, naturally. If Nogrod dies, it could be useful to have a look at yesterDay's voting again.


Gwath:
Thinks either Boro or Rikae is a wolf, but doesn't know which.
Other than that, he mostly defends himself against Nogrod and suspects him, of course. He votes for him, too.

Very little can be taken from that.

[Boromir88]

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff").~Mac
And I pointed out what was so "strange"...her insisting she would be wolf-meat last night.

Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context.~Mac
Was I the one who kept bringing up Lal's experience? Oh look who it is who keeps talking about Lal's experience...wow it's Lal!

For the record, I don't think a wolf would vote for another wolf, because I've been a wolf before and it doesn't work like that.

Again, cause I've been a wolf before. If I was one again I know I'd eat me up tonight.

Then after Mac pointed out how he felt my reasons were suspicious, Lal doees a 180.

I've been a wolf just the once!

I'm not an experienced player but even I wouldn't do that. I'm sure you wouldn't be so plain about it.

Which identity are you trying to play Lal? The "I've been a wolf and I know a wolf wouldn't do that" or the "I'm not experienced and I didn't know about the voting rules."

[Lalwendë]

Wait, so does that mean I'm a wolf or an innocent who's likely to get killed soon? With your pessimism, it's probably the former.

Now please stop trying to reverse-psychology the wolves and talk about other people for a change.

Ah, so I am talking about the wolves?

Heh.

This is how I work things out you know. However, I also have another thought which is to look more closely at bandwaggoning. Another Wolf trick is to hang off the back of a bandwagon. That would bring up any number of suspects but especially late votes out of nowhere. I'm going to have a look at those I think, too.

Also, for those who consistently vote for the same person, I see three possibilities: 1 - they have courage of their convictions (yeah, right); 2 - they are trying not to appear shifty by relying on us thinking they are honest; 3 - they are lazy and cannot be bothered to think of anyone else. I might look at these, too.



Which identity are you trying to play Lal? The "I've been a wolf and I know a wolf wouldn't do that" or the "I'm not experienced and I didn't know about the voting rules."

Pht, no point trying to get me onto the lynching bandwagon that way, because I was being honest. Yes, I've been a wolf (and wasn't too bad at it, not great though) and I know the mindset you need to get into. Yes, I've been a wolf just once - which was a response to Mac who posted querying how many times I'd been a wolf.

So I didn't read through the rules before getting stuck in, as you and Mith have both been a bit too keen to pick up on. What's up? Wolves not get enough to eat last night so they have to eat scraps, eh? It's just a shadow and a thought because you should know I'm not exactly a rule-reader, am I?

[Rikae]

Eh, it absolutely doesn't make sense, under normal conditions, for the wolves to kill someone as widely suspected as Brinn was. Thinking back, she also didn't seem remotely seerish.
Normally, I wouldn't think much could be gleaned from analyzing a kill, but this is a rather odd kill - almost a "wasted" kill, it looks like at first glance. Did Brinn say anything that looked possibly rangerish? Aside from that, I'd say it points to one of the following:
1) wolves under pressure who feel Brinn's death would relieve that pressure
2) inexperienced wolves

or does anyone else have other ideas?

I also think I'd like to go back and look at the Gwath voters - although the last few had a pretty straightforward "Nog saving" mission, of course.
I certainly approve of that, if only because I think the most skillful, talkative players are better kept around a little longer before judging them. I'm a little surprised to see Mac participating, though - from what I have seen, Mac has always suspected Nogrod (with or without reason) - it may even have been in every game the three of us have played together.
I shouldn't, I suppose, suspect Mac just because he may be trying to become less biased, though. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Oh come on...don't play the rebel without a clue card. I just don't believe you. Apart from anything else there is the extreme egotism of assuming you are the wolves top priority. Not to mention defensive....

[Nogrod]

The times are GMT meaning the deadline is 17.00. The underlined/bolded are the persons whose posts are cited below them...

I've tried to collect a point or two people have made of their voting choices to give you a view of what they were doing. There's also a tally of that moment (after one's vote) so you can see the situation where the vote was made. Surely in the end there were a host of cross-votes. I fex. waited to the last moment to see Mac's vote on Gwath and acted accordingly then. And some people actually marked their X'votings.

So here we go then...

Mith

(about 19 hours before the DL)
I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.

Especially since he just agreed with Nogrod that it was unlikely that a COD voter were a wolf.

Sorry got to go but will vote

++Gwathagor

Gwath1


Boro

(14.09 GMT)
Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?) Lal is an experienced wolf and I can't pin her behaviour as a wolf. She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself, so she could be the cobbler, just out to confuse us and try to turn the discussion away from the people she thinks are wolves.

(14.28)++Lalwende

There's something evil behind her intentions today, I don't know if she's feeling the pressure, or what it is, but it doesn't look right.

Gwath1, Lalwendë1


Fëa

(14.43) Because I know what I intuitively think you are, but that doesn't mean I'm going to apologize for any attempt I make on your life. 1) it's a game, and it's understood that it's a game. 2) why draw attention to yourself with a conspicuous display of confidence? 3) I'm not going to apologize for voting for you, because I'm highly likely to do it again.

I have to leave for work in a few minutes, and won't be back. That means a vote. And right now I'm tied between Shasta and Boro, for reasons that rationality don't yet support, but which I couldn't forgive myself for not acting on.

(15.15) ++Boromir

(who could have seen that coming?)

Gwath1, Lalwendë1, Boro1


Isabellkya

(8.46) I don't know if I would vote for Nog, but I definately have my eye on him.(the outcome of her analysis)

(15.37) Voting time..

++Nogrod

Gwath1, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod1


Gwath

(15.55) Since, at this point, there's no question in my mind who I am going to vote for, I may as well do it now.

++Nogrod

His arguments against me have, from the start, been forced, illogical, and exaggerative. I find him highly suspicious.

Gwath1, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod2


McCaber

(16.07) Yeah, I really don't like the way sally posted yesterDay, what with the "suspicion" of the Captain in quite a lot of posts but her vote trying to lead away from his death. (Old news, I know, but I just woke up. Give me a break.)

(16.17) Voting time!

++sally

for reasons already explained.

Gwath1, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod2, Sally1


Rikae

(14.37) Right now, my strongest feeling is that I don't like the way Brinn handles McCaber - and, furthermore, I don't like the way McCaber posts. I get the distinct impression she is trying to cover her bases where he's concerned (don't look like you're ignoring the possibility he's a wolf, but don't make it look like he actually is, either), while he is just poking his head in at the fringes of things, saying nothing that will elicit a response, and hoping no one notices him. Because Brinn is the more vocal of the two, I'm leaning toward voting for McCaber.

(16.02) As it stands, this allegation of "chumminess" looks suspiciously vague and makes me uneasier about both Brinn and Nilp (especially Nilp, because he repeated Brinn's wording without adding to it, and while claiming to suspect her).

(16.28) Nilp or McCaber... McCaber or Nilp... hmm....

++McCaber

Gwath1, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod2, Sally1, McCaber1


Nilp

(16.32) Gwath is rather twisty. Hehe. Meaning he seems to start with the premise that Nogrod is indeed a Wolf:
Quote:
However, I'm inclined to be more wary of any lists of "suspects" that wolves produce, no matter what point in the game they occur. (Gwath 168)

and then kinda goes on from there (198). Hey, I hate DAY 1s, too, man, but at least I listen to DAY 1 theories. Would you rather have us pulling names out of our hats? You vote for who you think the most suspicious is, no matter how you reach that conclusion. (Well, an innocent does. So far as I know . . . )

But your defence was simply . . . *shakes head* All this talking about what you might do if you were one or other, what you think he might think of what you're doing, etc. (which you did twice--once yesterDAY and this now toDAY) and rehashing DAY 1 discussion (I thought you hated DAY 1s, why bring them here in DAY 2?) is just *shakes head some more*.

(16.51) Hmm, and yes, voting for Brinniel does nothing. Suspect #2, however, already has a vote.

Ergo:

++Gwathagor

Gwath2, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod2, Sally1, McCaber1


Sally

(16.53) I read the thread last night and noted that Noggie's been on Gwath like Captain Jack on a TARDIS. I still don't see Gwath's big fault, he looks innocent to me, and it makes me think Nog is grasping at straws. Besides, why kill Gwath? It's the same reason I didn't vote for Captain yesterDay; not enough information from him (although I turned out to be right, dang it! heh) that I felt comfortable killing him. Maybe I'll agree with the case against Gwath at some point, but right now it feels too forced, and the post I quoted doesn't help things.

I'm sorry I couldn't explain more, but I don't want to completely spam you people like ten minutes before DL, so I'll just vote.

++Noggie

Gwath2, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod3, Sally1, McCaber1


Lalwendë

(~7½ hours before dl) So I'm watching these today: McCaber, Isabellkya, Nerwen, Fea.....with Nilp most likely to be drawn out of my bag for a vote if no obvious wolves turn up.

(14.52) I'm still fishy about McCaber. After what Nerwen said, and now after what you've just said (= Rikae saying “I don't like the way McCaber posts.”), I have to admit he's looking shady.

(16.38) What about those who are being too careful too? To be honest, I'd worry about those more than I'd worry about Gwath and Nogrod.

(16.57) Out of my 3 candidates, I'm taking a punt on the idea of a wolf-on-wolf vote early yesterday, so I'm voting:

++McCaber

Gwath2, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod3, Sally1, McCaber2


Brinniel

(12 hours before DL) Nogrod: I don't really like the reasoning behind his suspicions. As I mentioned yesterDay, I think was reading too much into Gwath's post. He's definitely someone I need to take a closer look at tomorrow.

satansaloser2005: I agree that her vote was definitely the most suspicious of Day 1. But it isn't just the vote...I agree with Boromir; her behaviour feels a bit furry to me. She's another that I want to take a closer look at tomorrow.

(16.55) Best I stick with voting my original top two suspects. So will it be Nogrod or Sally?

(16.59) ++Sally

Explanation coming...

(17.00) I was going to vote Nogrod, but this bandwagon against him worries me that I might be horribly wrong. Sally...her voting has been rather suspicious...

Gwath2, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod3, Sally2, McCaber2


Macalaure

(16.23) Worried about:
Boro(+1) - still don't like his behavior at the end of last day and has said a few worrying things today.
Brinn

Slightly worried about:
Fea(-1) - still don't know what to do with her, but I somehow feel a Feawolf would act differently.
Gwath(-1) - even though some seem to think differently, I think his posts today have looked more innocent than guilty.
Sally(-1) - her vote looks bad, but she hasn't done anything today to make me more suspicious.

(16.49) Since I wouldn't like to see Nogrod go now, I think I'll vote for one of the given candidates (unless a secure Brinn-waggon suddenly appears). I'm leaning towards voting for Boro, with Sally and Gwath as possible second choices.

(16.57) If I can't get Boro, I'd prefer Gwath over Sally.

(16.59) ++Gwathagor

(edit: crossed with Brinn... great...)

Gwath3, Lalwendë1, Boro1, Nogrod3, Sally2, McCaber2


Nerwen

(11.39)
Boro cannot be a wolf or he'd have jumped onto one of those bandwagons to save CoD and not randomly voted for moi. He gave no reason to be umming and ahhing and waiting til the end for nefarious reasons, he clearly had no clue.
Or he was waiting to see who else (other than CoD) would get the most votes. Or he's the cobbler. I should have thought both of these possibilities were fairly obvious.

(17.00) Running out of time...

++Boro.


Gwath3, Lalwendë1, Boro2, Nogrod3, Sally2, McCaber2


Nogrod

(17.00) ++ Gwath

Gwath4, Lalwendë1, Boro2, Nogrod3, Sally2, McCaber2


I'll take a short break and come back with hopefully some ideas drawn from this mammouth - and of the latest posting as well (after I read it, that is).

EDIT: corrected quotes & boldings

[Rikae]

I just realized the above theory about the wolves excludes me - and there is nothing more wolfish than excluding oneself with a theory. :eek::D
Although I am neither inexperienced, nor under pressure, as a wolf I might have killed Brinn (in certain moods) just to create the impression the wolves were either of those things.
Other than me, I might suspect Nogrod... Fea... and Boro... of such shenanigans.

Brinn's death also proves that Boro defended, and Nogrod attacked, an innocent. Not sure where to go with that...

EDIT: X'd with Mith and a huuuuuuge post from Nog

[Rikae]

Nogrod - thanks for posting the votes, that's a big help.

Looking over them, Mac perhaps gets off the hook for voting to save Nogrod - Mith's Gwath vote looks a little fishy (at least by the reasons given here), and Nilp seems to vote based on what he said earlier about Gwath even after it was pointed out some of it was mistaken. The rest of his case against Gwath doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - meh.

EDIT: Sally's reasoning behind voting Nogrod looks very fishy. She compares Gwath to a known wolf, might suspect him later but doesn't want to now, and then (apparently) votes Nog for going after him? Bizarre.

[Boromir88]

Also, for those who consistently vote for the same person, I see three possibilities: 1 - they have courage of their convictions (yeah, right); 2 - they are trying not to appear shifty by relying on us thinking they are honest; 3 - they are lazy and cannot be bothered to think of anyone else. I might look at these, too.~Lalwende
I won't speak for Fea (I bet I can guess why), but I'm sure this includes me. I'll tell you, it's nothing personal dear, but I see a wolf and I won't be satisfied until I know your identity for sure.

So, Lal, care to tell us why you killed Brin last night?

[McCaber]

I still think that the Day 1 voting record is the best to find a wolf. I'm going to take a closer look at those who tried to save the Captain at the last minutes. I know that includes sally, but I'm not sure who else.

[Mithalwen]

Rikae - It was just bad timing. Gwathagor struck me as oddest at the time I had to vote. I had hoped a few more people would have been around before I had to go but..they weren't. I knew I was highly unlikely to get back on line and I believe in voting if at all possible. But I hadn't seen the godson since his birthday last December so I couldn't really not go and fill him with excessive amounts of icecream - I mean feeding godchildren lots of icecream is in the Baptism Service along with renouncing the Devil and all his works and buying slightly unsuitable (as in noisy, messy and not educational) presents . :cool:

[Boromir88]

Random thought...I don't like Nerwen's vote for me, it's a throw away, and based on my vote for Lal. Wasting your vote on me Nerwen, so you can keep your hands clean yesterday?

[Mithalwen]

How about "At least two people called my vote pure spite, and I don't enjoy people thinking I would be the type of person who does that"?

You are getting a bit obsessive about this- if I am included in this I would remind you that I said your attack on Boromir looked as if it could be spite but because I didn't think you were that type of person, it might well be using history as a cover.

[Boromir88]

You are getting a bit obsessive about this-~Mith
I don't think so...Fea went after Shasta pretty good for that "apology" and Shasta responded back.

[Nogrod]

Some points from yesterDay's voting then.


Mith - Pretty light grounds but it was also stupenduosly early. I'm not sure what to make of it - actual haste and just voting for the first reason coming by or something else. Hard to say. (add: seeing Mith's new post there kind of makes me a bit easier with the grounds for her vote)

I'm a bit bothered by Nilp's way of making his points with it's recurring *shakes head* -theme. There is a general twisted feeling in there but it maybe I'm just seeing ghosts.

Sally pushed me nicely into the lead - on the brink of the lynch in fact. Now if she's a wolf that was something she would be happy about. Looking at the grounds for the vote do not look too impressive (well, whose grounds would do that?) but her timing looks like perfect for a wolf.

It's interesting that Nerwen comes in and votes Boro just like that at the deadline. And the short quote I gave you in my giant-post was all she had to say of Boro before that on Day2...


Lal managed to creep into Boro's suspicions worth a vote in twenty minutes (quite fast creeping!). That was quite an easy vote from Boro...

Fëa's insistence on lynching Boro is either having fun with him with no better options around or a perfect wolf-hide. Last time I suspected her on somewhat similar grounds and we lynched her she was an ordo though, so I'm going to be a bit more careful this time with her as long as I'm along in this game.


Isabell, McCaber, Rikae and Lalwendë are pretty consistent all the time. Now that might look good to a hasty player but in the end only the wolves have an easy time being consistent as they know what they are doing... :eek:


Finally from Mac I'd like to ask which made him change his mind in the last 30 minutes from this: Gwath(-1) - even though some seem to think differently, I think his posts today have looked more innocent than guilty.
Sally(-1) - her vote looks bad, but she hasn't done anything today to make me more suspicious. to this: I'd prefer Gwath over Sally.Wouldn't it feel that "looks more innocent than guilty" is giving cleaner papers than "not made me more suspicious"? :p



So sorry guys, I'm suspecting you all at the moment. :smokin:

[Mithalwen]

I don't think so...Fea went after Shasta pretty good for that "apology" and Shasta responded back.

I missed that ... sorry...

[Lalwendë]

Oh come on...don't play the rebel without a clue card. I just don't believe you. Apart from anything else there is the extreme egotism of assuming you are the wolves top priority. Not to mention defensive....

What card? Everyone knows what I'm like. More than ever these days.

You can call me egotistical if you like, I'll admit it does look like that, though I was only looking at what a wolf-Lal might have done in the circumstances. And I won't drop the thought because it's still a possibility, even more so now the wolves are picking up on that.

[Mithalwen]

I won't vote know becasue I don't have too but it very likely will be for Lalwende
Reasons

Too much ic nonsense day one accompanied by a list of names with helpful comments such as No idea. About only constructive comment said that she thougth I might have a special role. Cheers. If you think I am a wolf say it, if not don't point me out to them... :rolleyes:

Day 2 we have paranoia without good reason.

Overall spectacularly jumpy - jumps on to other peoples ideas. Professes expertise on wolfing on one outing but professes not to know the set up... goodness knows I sometimes skim the narrative for the hard facts but surely everyone checks out the basics before the start - no of wolves, gifteds, vote type? Don't they?

Altogether far too like the last time I spotted her as a wolf... which perhaps means she is a cobbler, but I can't believe she is up to any good.

[Rikae]

Isabell, McCaber, Rikae and Lalwendë are pretty consistent all the time. Now that might look good to a hasty player but in the end only the wolves have an easy time being consistent as they know what they are doing... :eek:
Can't speak for the others (two of whom are high on my own suspicion list at the moment), but it's been easy for me to be consistent because no one seems to agree with me. It might seem perverse, but it's when too many people start agreeing with my suspicions that I usually start doubting them (suspecting wolvish bandwagoning). Too much consensus makes me antsy.

[Mithalwen]

What card? Everyone knows what I'm like. More than ever these days.

You can call me egotistical if you like, I'll admit it does look like that, though I was only looking at what a wolf-Lal might have done in the circumstances. And I won't drop the thought because it's still a possibility, even more so now the wolves are picking up on that.

Well it is basic courtesy to a moderator to take some notice of the arrangements they have made and I am sure that it is a logical impossibility for you to say you would kill yourself as a wolf - thougth I am sure Nogrod has a fancy name for it. I still believe that unless you are one, the wolves just aren't that into you

I think we will hear cries of Wonga-wonga very soon.....:p

[Rikae]

That aforementioned "suspicion list":

Naughty:
Rikae - Naughty, as always, but not wolfishly or cobblerishly so (unless my right hand doesn't know what my left is doing :p).
Nilp - For reasons already given (copying nonsensical arguments wording and all, faulty reasoning) plus odd voting yesterDay.
Sally - For some very creepy voting yesterday.
McCaber - For reasons given before. I think he's flying under the radar, and what little he gives us hasn't been reassuring.
Isabellkya - For similar reasons as McCaber. There are also some specific things in her posts I didn't like, but I'll have to go back over them later.

Neutral:
Nerwen - She hasn't set off any alarms yet, but she hasn't inspired my trust, either.
Boro - Yes, I suspected him before, and I still do, but moderately. Sometimes he looks downright evil, sometimes not... he's the closest here to the "naughty" category.
Fea - I haven't seen anything particularly worrying, but I'm wary of her anyway.
Mith - Nothing particularly bad, but she seems a bit slippery.
Lalwendë - Although - she played the "confused innocent" role during her time as a wolf, if I recall correctly - she seems perhaps cobblerish, but not wolfish now.

Nice:
Nogrod - For the time being, anyway, I think he looks innocent. Trouble is, I have a hard time spotting evil Nogs - he tends to look the same to me whatever his role.
Mac - He looks ok to me (except for defending Nogrod being out of character... but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one). His vote on Day 1 looks good.
Shasta - No alarms so far, but he hasn't given us enough for me to decide he looks innocent, either. Still, not really a suspect now.

[Mithalwen]

Well I am off. Just to focus minds - since seemingly there is a point of stating the obvious. I make it 13 players left. 2 wolves, 1 cobbler, 3 gifted, 7 ordos. Bear the different agendas in mind while looking at suspects.

Time to go home..... time to go home, Mithalwen is waving good bye....

[Nogrod]

It might seem perverse, but it's when too many people start agreeing with my suspicions that I usually start doubting them (suspecting wolvish bandwagoning). Too much consensus makes me antsy.It's nothing perverse indeed. Or then we are both perverts as that is very much a shared feeling.

In the first games I tended to jump on those who suspected me - and it is a natural reaction as it feels bad - but one should get over it in the end. Aren't all those suspecting your own high-innocentness the ultra-evil...? :rolleyes:

Also it was easy to see that those who disagreed with your suspicions in general were purposefully preventing your own great ideas to win the day. :)

I'm at least hoping I'm getting a bit better at overcoming these but sadly the gut reactions are still functioning even if I know where the ideas they bring me come from...

Just to give you an example.

I have been quite comfortable with Mac's sober attitude towards me this game and was almost delighted when he shared some of my ideas - and I do owe my continued existence in this game to him to be sure (that's pretty tough to overlook - although it would indeed be the perfect trick performed by the wolf!). But somewhere in the back of my head there has been a quiet voice squeaking: "Look, look, he's dangerous now, why is he doing all that? Every other time he's at you from his first post onwards?" (just a slight overexaggeration for the dramatics).

So I'm very much aware that he might be toying with me with his attitude but the feel-good factor does help a bit to overcome the critical instinct inside. That's just how it works even if you know it works like that.

EDIT: X'd from Rikae...

[Lalwendë]

I won't vote know becasue I don't have too but it very likely will be for Lalwende
Reasons

Too much ic nonsense day one accompanied by a list of names with helpful comments such as No idea. About only constructive comment said that she thougth I might have a special role. Cheers. If you think I am a wolf say it, if not don't point me out to them... :rolleyes:

Day 2 we have paranoia without good reason.

Overall spectacularly jumpy - jumps on to other peoples ideas. Professes expertise on wolfing on one outing but professes not to know the set up... goodness knows I sometimes skim the narrative for the hard facts but surely everyone checks out the basics before the start - no of wolves, gifteds, vote type? Don't they?

Altogether far too like the last time I spotted her as a wolf... which perhaps means she is a cobbler, but I can't believe she is up to any good.

Most of the above we could say about you.

You wrote just as much 'IC nonsense' on the first day (I think I did 2-3 posts with it in before I got bored with it) as I did. You made no constructive comments. I started day 2 with my own theories, no other people's, even though sticking your neck out does make you bandwagon fodder (it would be a boring game if everyone played it safe and just hid away).

And as for the (yawn) thing about me not knowing about the votes, I perhaps have more excuse than most to be distracted but I have not stooped to pull out excuses until now. Oh, there it is, I made an excuse, now I'm just the same as everyone else ;)

Are you, to quote the mighty Duran Duran, Hungry Like The Wolf.....?

You are singularly obsessed with this, and yet you accuse others of having obsessions over someone in the game? Do you know your own tricks best? That's coupled with the small suspicions I've already had for you, based on some seemingly flippant (artfully flippant?) voting and early voting.
:eek:

Edit - and late voting. Very late voting, folks. There's an interesting Mith/Boro exchange on page 4 where Mith asks Boro if he wants to get lynched, and then she votes for CoD at the last minute (Boro would have been curtains otherwise). Boro says that he 'wouldn't have been the biggest loss'. What? Out of 3 wolves? And now I am on their bandwagon...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If you want somebody to say yes to a request, you ask them in person.

If you want to know what a person's really like? You don't ask. You accuse. You make a scene. You cause some trouble. And you observe reactions. Reactions are very much more telling than actions.

Shasta and Boro, congrats for passing my unofficial test for the day. Tomorrow, who knows. Today, you're off my hitlist.

I could see a Mithwolf in this game...

[Boromir88]

I have debated whether I wanted to say this, because I'm sure some of you will be reminded of my last village (when I was fanged) and I did a comprehensive Durelin (the seer) analysis after we killed her. But, I don't care, I'm going to say this about Brin's death and if it makes me look furry, so be it. It needs to be brought up.

A post of Brin's that stuck out (to me) is post 196 where she gives her thoughts on everyone in the village. Thus, I think it's possible the wolves might have seen this as the seer trying to give out information. Brin says "I will look at [insert name here] more..." or "I want to see..." I guess the problem is words like "look" and "see" aren't necessarily seer hints, because they're commonly used by everyone. But, what if the wolves went after Brin, because they thought she was the seer and in 196 she was trying to give hints.

I think that because her "possible wolf list" is really short:
Possible Wolf
Nogrod
Sally
And here's what she said about Nogrod:
Nogrod: I don't really like the reasoning behind his suspicions. As I mentioned yesterDay, I think was reading too much into Gwath's post. He's definitely someone I need to take a closer look at tomorrow.
And Sally:
satansaloser2005: I agree that her vote was definitely the most suspicious of Day 1. But it isn't just the vote...I agree with Boromir; her behaviour feels a bit furry to me. She's another that I want to take a closer look at tomorrow.
This would point towards Nogrod and sally then. Durelin obviously notes she doesn't know for "certain" about these two, but if one of them was a wolf, maybe they were looking to silence the (assumed) seer, before she found out for sure?

By Brin's admittance her "no idea" list is too big, and she has 5 people (including herself) in the "probably innocent" list. I will add on though there was a lot of dialogue between Nogrod, Brin, and me on whether the seer would dream of Brin, or not. Maybe the wolves thought that was a tip off too? I don't see anything else that would suggest some type of seer hint, and right now I'm thinking this idea is a bit of a stretch.

Edit: oops...when I said "Durelin obviously notes..." I meant Brin. :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

If you want somebody to say yes to a request, you ask them in person.

If you want to know what a person's really like? You don't ask. You accuse. You make a scene. You cause some trouble. And you observe reactions. Reactions are very much more telling than actions.

Shasta and Boro, congrats for passing my unofficial test for the day. Tomorrow, who knows. Today, you're off my hitlist.

I could see a Mithwolf in this game...

Do I get a gold Charms feather? :D

In all seriousness, Lal is acting extremely oddly. I could definately see her as the cobbler in this instance; I'm as-yet unsure of her wolfishness factor. I'll do some more reading.

Expect more posting from me after rehearsal (e.g. in about three or four hours from now).

Edit: X'd with Boro.

[Boromir88]

Boro says that he 'wouldn't have been the biggest loss'. What? Out of 3 wolves? And now I am on their bandwagon...~Lal
If I had any special role I wouldn't want to get lynched on Day 1, and would do whatever I could to not get lynched. As no one special, I would have liked to stay around longer, but if I did get lynched it wouldn't have mattered.

I think Mith's provided good reasoning to why she's jumped onboard against you (and don't you think you over-exaggerate? 2 people doth a bandwagon not make).

Anyway, I'll tell you why I don't like your "I'm going to be killed by the wolves" stuff last night. If you're innocent you're either gifted or ordinary.

1. If you're gifted I have no idea why you would be so obvious in telling the wolves you're gifted, and clueing them into killing you . It would make sense for the hunter, but you can't be the hunter, because there is no hunter in this village.

2. You're an ordinary innocent trying to pose as someone gifted (thus providing cover for the real gifteds). If you're innocent I say bravo, but obviously the wolves didn't buy it so just give up the act.

3. You're a baddie. You're either a wolf and trying to scare people into believe you're gifted and thus you shouldn't be lynched. Or you're the cobbler just creating confusion.

[Nogrod]

That was a fine one Boro! :)

(EDIT: The theory about Brinn being looked by the wolves as being the seer that is. Just to make it clear this is not referring to Boro's post on Lalwendë)

I mean I really appreciated that one. I've never thought you lacked capabilities or were not in these games for good sport.

The scenario you suggest is near plausible* one, though as you say yourself: I guess the problem is words like "look" and "see" aren't necessarily seer hints, because they're commonly used by everyone.Not indeed as they are used about 90% of the time people talk about their intentions of what they will do the next Day or later that Day. :p

But the problem with this is that this kind of speculation is coming from you! Really, when you're innocent you're quite straightforward, no monkey-bussiness, no conspiracies, "if it talks like it & walks like it - it is it" -man. You were supposed to be the guy who always told me not to fabricate too far-fetched or streched arguments as they were no good.

Then again it really looks like you've doing this somehow in "earnest" - or at least wished to make it look like a bit more serious thought - even if the reservations you put there yourself. That was no banter or joke thrown on board which you do all the time when innocent as well but basically a semi-serious effort to really suggest the focus the search to be adjusted.

I don't see you as a wolf. But my idea of you being actually the cobbler of the town just strengthens...


* "near plausible" meaning I will keep this in mind when looking at Sally but if my sense of your cobblerism doesn't come down I will in the end probably ignore it... if you thought by that way to save Sally whom you think is a wolf, then kudos for you! You deserve a feather into your hat that being the case.

EDIT: X'd with Boro

[Nogrod]

Decent points on Lal, Boro. I'm actually torn between which one of you is the cobbler... :)

[Isabellkya]

Boro, do you usually 'mimic' the words and phrasing of others?

[Rikae]

Yep, I don't like the way Izzy hangs around the fringes of things, occasionally "poking" at someone as if in an attempt to see if she can get suspicions flowing that way.
That's one thing that was bugging me.

[Rikae]

Nothing more?
Well, I have to work tomorrow, so I suppose I'd better vote now.

++Sally

[Nerwen]

Random thought...I don't like Nerwen's vote for me, it's a throw away, and based on my vote for Lal.

No, that's not why I voted you.

This is why I voted you–

I find Boro's behaviour most peculiar. His neck was on the line for the last hour– why didn't he vote one of the other leads to save himself? (True, I guess he couldn't have known about Sally's vote for him, but then he couldn't have known about Mith's for CoD either).

You still haven't explained that, Boro.

As for Lal herself... I don't know. Yesterday her behaviour looked more newbie-ish than anything to me, but toDay... I don't know. Can anyone really be this naive?

[Isabellkya]

I'm not sure how analyzing Nog's and Sally's posts for a day and a half is considered poking.

It is a legitimate question which I posed to Boro.

You put Nilp on your naughty list for copying arguments, yet I don't see Boro there for that reason as well.




Edit. Fixed a tag.

[McCaber]

So I'm still convinced that sally is a wolf, but the only other late distracters were Nogrod for Gwath and Boro for Lal. And I'm pretty sure both of them are innocent.

If only sally gave me more to analyze. And I'm still not sure why Lal and Rikae have harped on me as a suspect. I just don't really get their arguments.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

So, that's two of my suspects gone.

*sigh*

So, aside from believing the four CoD voters to be innocent, I have nothing.

The problem, really, is I can't find the time to pore over the thread and get my own ideas, so I just read a well-written accusation, think 'Hmm, yes', and go with it.

Haha, maybe I should print up the thread again. (I did that with DWW, and by DAY 3 I had 50+ pages. :eek: )

So, yeah, be back later. Still have classes 'n stuff.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Hm, has anyone looked closely at Fëa(sic) lately?

[Nerwen]

I'd like to hear from the Gwath voters.


Nogrod had been after him all day, so it was hardly surprising that he voted him. Still, it does look not unlike the good old "force your opponent to defend himself" wolf-tactic. (I'll bear in mind that half the time when two people go at it hammer and tongs, they're both ordos.)


Mithalwen votes him on grounds which I did not like at the time, and still don't:

I find Gwathagor's response, to my response on his "correct me if I am wrong" re Captain of Despair baffling. How that pointing out that COD isn't an unsphisticated thinker makes me a wolf is beyond me.

Especially since he just agreed with Nogrod that it was unlikely that a COD voter were a wolf.

I said this at the time: all he said was, "of course, you could be a wolf."

A possible attempt to silence him?


Nilp finds Gwath "twisty"– on grounds which I pointed out to him were incorrect. Then he votes him anyway... apparently for putting up a poor defence?

But your defence was simply . . . *shakes head* All this talking about what you might do if you were one or other, what you think he might think of what you're doing, etc. (which you did twice--once yesterDAY and this now toDAY) and rehashing DAY 1 discussion (I thought you hated DAY 1s, why bring them here in DAY 2?) is just *shakes head some more*.


And Mac gives no reason at all.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm moving in the morning, I won't have time to post much of anything (that is if I even manage to check the forum!), I didn't like Nog yesterday, I would have voted him yesterday, and he's done nothing to assuage my suspicions today.

Therefore:

++Nogrod

[Lalwendë]

If I had any special role I wouldn't want to get lynched on Day 1, and would do whatever I could to not get lynched. As no one special, I would have liked to stay around longer, but if I did get lynched it wouldn't have mattered.

Anyway, I'll tell you why I don't like your "I'm going to be killed by the wolves" stuff last night. If you're innocent you're either gifted or ordinary.

2. You're an ordinary innocent trying to pose as someone gifted (thus providing cover for the real gifteds). If you're innocent I say bravo, but obviously the wolves didn't buy it so just give up the act.


Love the way you neatly side-step the notion that those with special roles include those who are wolves; why would you signal your approval of Mith's vote for CoD and you 'not being the biggest loss' if you had a role other than that of a Wolf, seeing as only wolves know each others' identities ;) Page 4 is evidence enough for anyone...plus we know Mith is likely to kill a fellow wolf when they look like they are doomed - I'm not the only one to note that.

I also love the way you and Mith assume to know what the wolves think about my theories yesterday. Funny that, given that Brinniel being killed was the most obvious curveball they could throw in.

[Macalaure]

Wouldn't it feel that "looks more innocent than guilty" is giving cleaner papers than "not made me more suspicious"?Those were just the reasons why I put both back from "suspicious" to "somewhat suspicious". In the end, I gave Gwath the notch over Sally out of gut feeling.

I have been quite comfortable with Mac's sober attitude towards me this game and was almost delighted when he shared some of my ideas - and I do owe my continued existence in this game to him to be sure (that's pretty tough to overlook - although it would indeed be the perfect trick performed by the wolf!). But somewhere in the back of my head there has been a quiet voice squeaking: "Look, look, he's dangerous now, why is he doing all that? Every other time he's at you from his first post onwards?" (just a slight overexaggeration for the dramatics).Oh, come on. If you now suspect me for not suspecting you, I shall change my ways back. :p
There are a few minor things that I could have pointed early out on, but I didn't, because then you would have suspected me in turn and defended yourself in a way that I would have found even more suspicious, and down the drain it goes. This just happened too often in the past and very rarely did it do any good, so I'm trying to change it this time (and in the future, I hope). One thing I do find suspicious about you is your Day1 vote, which is why I did not go as far as to put you on my innocent list so far.
(Rikae mentioned something the same thing, too)

And Mac gives no reason at all.

There's little reason I had, sadly. I pointed out several times on Day1 that I felt Gwath's tone of voice was off. On Day2 I felt better about him, but out of the people on the voting block, he was the one I still felt worst about.


A remark about Boro's #311. That is a very good point there (if only it wouldn't come from my lone suspect left), and I would extend it. In Brinn's unsure list, there are also several people that she said she needed to pay more attention to. Now, if one wolf gets such a comment, I don't think it is usually given much heed during the night's plotting, but if both get such a comment from someone who they think might be the seer, it might cause paranoia. Next to Nogrod and Sally, those candidates are: Rikae, Nerwen, Fea, and Lal. Both wolves in that list?


Well, my current suspicions are thin, like butter spread over too much bread. I'll better go and reread to address that.

[Boromir88]

You still haven't explained that, Boro.~Nerwen
When I voted, the last vote I saw was Mac's for CoD. I didn't know about Nogrod's, sally's, or Mith's votes.

I'm almost certain I've said this a couple times, but I'll entertain you Nerwen...I had no clue about Brin or CoD's roles. I felt Brin looked innocent (and didn't like Mac's 'case' against her), and as wierd as CoD's vote was, I don't like last minute bandwagons when no one is around. More often then not they turn out bad. However, I know my role, and hence why I told Mith I wouldn't be the biggest lost and I went ahead and voted for Lal.

why would you signal your approval of Mith's vote for CoD and you 'not being the biggest loss' if you had a role other than that of a Wolf~Lal
This is precisely why I'm not buying your innocent. How could I signal my approval for Mith's vote if I said "I wouldn't be the biggest loss" after Mith's vote? Not to mention while cross-posting?

I don't know why Mith asked me if I wanted to get lynched, she'll have to tell you.

I also love the way you and Mith assume to know what the wolves think about my theories yesterday. Funny that, given that Brinniel being killed was the most obvious curveball they could throw in.~Lal
I didn't assume anything, you're either the Ranger, Seer, an ordinary, or a baddie, and I tried to figure out why someone would want to attract that much attention to being "wolf meat."

It doesn't make any sense if you're gifted.
If you're ordinary, trying to give cover to the real gifted, it didn't work and I asked you to give up the act.
or...
you're a baddie trying to make the village believe you're gifted and weary about lynching you.

Izzy, I've been after Lal since Day 1, and I disagreed with Mac and Nogrod's suspicions against Brin, and I wondered whether the wolves thought Brin was the seer...I don't know how I'm copying everyone's arguments.

Edit: crossed with Mac

[Lalwendë]

I didn't assume anything, you're either the Ranger, Seer, an ordinary, or a baddie, and I tried to figure out why someone would want to attract that much attention to being "wolf meat."

It doesn't make any sense if you're gifted.
If you're ordinary, trying to give cover to the real gifted, it didn't work and I asked you to give up the act.
or...
you're a baddie trying to make the village believe you're gifted and weary about lynching you.


This is what is so interesting to me, especially after reading that exchange between yourself and Mith on page 4, that you are so singularly attracted to my theory that my actions were going to flush out a wolf. You can theorise all you want about me trying to cover something fishy up, but I said it was about flushing out a wolf and I hold by that ;)

[Boromir88]

You can theorise all you want about me trying to cover something fishy up, but I said it was about flushing out a wolf and I hold by that~Lal
And you better bet I'm going to go back and double-check whether you stated those reasons or not. I could very well have missed that yesterday. But, I'm not really sure how Mith and my exchange on Day 1 are tied in with this.

If I remember yesterday Rikae pointed out it was odd Brin and Nilp suggest I had been "chummy" with Nogrod. Brin said she didn't suggest that, Nilp withdrew his statement later. I looked, Izzy was the other one who suggested Nogrod and I were buddying up. Maybe now someone will start asking you questions Izzy...why did you think that?

[Macalaure]

A second look at Boromir:

Day1: Buddies up to Rikae and has an exchange with Fea that could be something but likely is not. Criticises my points against Brinn, which is fair, but concludes that I'm a wolf, which is a leap. Makes points on everybody but me (who he makes an extra category for) and starts his chase of Lalwende. Dissuades people to vote for CoD just after I did. "Well I was hoping to stay around longer...but I wouldn't be the biggest loss."

The last comment (shouting "I'm an ordo, I'm an ordo!" just before the deadline could be the reaction of a seer who suddenly noticed he was a bit too open, or a reverse-psychology hint to the ranger for the same reason), together with his sureness about my guilt make me think he's the cobbler who, at the time, was preparing for a fake seer reveal later. With Brinn's vote for me, he had a chance to get me lynched, but didn't, preferring to throw his vote away. Of course, he could also be an ordo setting up a trap for a possible me-wolf (if he had been killed that night, it would have pointed very strongly towards wolf-me thinking he was the seer).

Day2: His theory about Brinn... you can explain it as often as you like, to me, it still carries the smell of getting her to make herself look bad with a defense and then sitting back and enjoying the show. Makes a case against Sally which is more or less sensible. He decides that Mith isn't a wolf. He's suspicious of Nogrod and picks apart his case of Brinniel. Just before he has to vote he remembers Lal and votes her.

He discards his suspicion of me entirely, which is surprising. After he was so suspicious before, I would have expected a bit more hesitation. This is in line with the cobbler-seer theory, which a cobbler would have commentlessly discarded at this point.
His reasons for voting Lal twice in a row are paper-thin.

Day3: He gives points against Lal and later starts putting actual pressure on her. Doesn't like Nerwen's vote. Makes a point about Brinn's list. Responds to Nerwen about his Day1-vote and I'm not sure I buy that. Goes after Izzy a little.

How is this for a wolf-strategy: Pick a villager (Lal) who isn't listened to much but who is also unlikely to get lynched quickly, and then consistently go after her. Your cases will look sensible and consistent but it will take a long while until the victim's death makes you look bad and forces you to make wrong cases against somebody new. A cobbler could do the same if he's sure that his victim is not a wolf.


Conclusion: His insistence to go after Lal doesn't seem right with me. He did a few things that point towards cobblerdom, maybe wolfdom, too, but not necessarily. Unfortunately, apart from his voting, which is odd, I could see an innocent Boro do the same things. He's still up there in my list, but I can't make my mind up entirely.


I think I'll look at Sally next.

[Mithalwen]

...plus we know Mith is likely to kill a fellow wolf when they look like they are doomed - I'm not the only one to note that.

.

How do we know. THis has NEVER happened. I didn't vote for Roa when she slipped up in her first , I didn't vote for Izzy in Sauce's game or Nerwen in Brinniel's.

Oh and I vowed I wouldn't do this again and make you blighters thinkbut for those who set store on such things I am not a wolf. Gospel.

[Macalaure]

A second look at Sally.

Day1: Mostly joking around first. Criticises CoD for his (non-)vote, then subsequently keeps on mentioning him, which is weird, but I'm not sure whether it's evil. Goes after Boro with no real reason. Also suspects Brinn and Rikae. Let's Nogrod dissuade her from Brinn.

One certainly, like Boro, see her treatment of the Captain as a nervous wolf-on-wolf thing. What makes me doubt it is, that for Sallysawolf it would have been far more effective to simply not mention him at all. There's nervousness, but also carelessness. The placement and the reasoning for the vote suspicious.

Day 2: Thinks Kath was a random kill. Apologises for voting Boro. Thinks Gwath is not guilty. Votes Nogrod because he went after Gwath. She defends her vote from Nogrod.

Not much to comment here. I don't agree with her stance on Nogrod, but that doesn't make her suspicious.

ToDay she has not shown herself yet.


What can I say? There is certainly enough to keep on suspecting her, especially from Day1, but it doesn't earn a top spot. I really hope she'll be around more later. I need to read more of her.

[Mithalwen]

I asked Boro if he wanted to be lynched because he could have ensured his own safety and didn't. Most of us would want to save our own skin innocent or not. After all unless you thought a gifted was going down you would want to keep yourself as an innocent alive. Wolves obviously want to stay alive. Only cobblers and confident hunters might do otherwise.

[Lalwendë]

I asked Boro if he wanted to be lynched because he could have ensured his own safety and didn't. Most of us would want to save our own skin innocent or not. After all unless you thought a gifted was going down you would want to keep yourself as an innocent alive. Wolves obviously want to stay alive. Only cobblers and confident hunters might do otherwise.

Page 4.

:eek:

4:57 - Do you want to get lynched, Boro?
4:59 - Voting for CoD because of not wanting to lose Boro.
4:59 - Boro says he wouldn't be the biggest loss anyway.

[Macalaure]

A look at Nilp:

Day1: Nothing of importance. Misses vote.

Day2: Captain-voters look innocent. Thinks Nogrod looked suspicious on Day1, but now no longer. Is convinced by Nog's case against Brin. Boro and Nerwen look innocent. Brings up the chumminess of Boro and Nogrod which he later takes back. Doesn't give any additional reasons against Brinn, and his reasons against Gwath... *shakes head* (though I'm probably not the one to criticise flimsy Gwath-suspicions). Suspects Fea and Shasta of being wolves together. Votes Gwath. Expects to get under fire the next day (which strangely he hasn't very much so far).

The way Nilp takes up Nogrod's points, I have a hard time imagining the two are in cahoots. I could see this as Wolfnilp copying points of Nogrod that he knew were wrong.

Day3: Wants Fea to be looked at and
The problem, really, is I can't find the time to pore over the thread and get my own ideas, so I just read a well-written accusation, think 'Hmm, yes', and go with it.Well, well, I understand. I'm not happy with it, though. The question is, of course, why would Nilpwolf have killed Brinniel? It took away his only suspect. Did Nilpwolf fear retaliation? It will be interesting to see what he comes up with later toDay. I'll reserve my judgement til then.


I asked Boro if he wanted to be lynched because he could have ensured his own safety and didn't. Most of us would want to save our own skin innocent or not. After all unless you thought a gifted was going down you would want to keep yourself as an innocent alive. Wolves obviously want to stay alive. Only cobblers and confident hunters might do otherwise.

*ponders*

[satansaloser2005]

Quickly (finally got my computer working again and I'm running out the door for class) I still feel uneasy about Nogrod. I hate that I'm concentrating on just one person but he seems too....blah. Just not good.


From the beginning (well, semi the beginning) he's made a grasp-at-straw case against Gwath and finally got him lynched. Guess what? Gwath's an ordo.

His interaction with Boro seems unnatural and the way he spoke to me yesterDay seems very suspicious (he seemed to me to be making too much of a fuss in that one post, if you ask my little opinion)



For some reason Lal and Nilp jump out at me as well, and Mac doesn't want to suspect me even though he thinks I'm suspicious. Not that I'm not flattered, but why? Meh. I wish I had more time. :(


I'll be back a bit before the deadline (unless class gets out early) to vote and such.

[Nerwen]

How do we know. THis has NEVER happened. I didn't vote for Roa when she slipped up in her first , I didn't vote for Izzy in Sauce's game or Nerwen in Brinniel's.

Hey, you were going to, though... we just couldn't get anyone else to follow suit, remember?:D

But anyhow, the remark of mine Lal is quoting, that you (if furry) "may have thought CoD was doomed anyway" was about situation, not individual character, if you see what I mean.

She's taken a couple of things I said in that post and run right out of sight with them.


Oh and I vowed I wouldn't do this again and make you blighters thinkbut for those who set store on such things I am not a wolf. Gospel.

Well, that's a load off my mind...:cool:

X'd since Mac at 333.

[Lalwendë]

My problem right now is whether I should vote for Mithwolf or Borowolf.

Boro had me lined up from day one with no good reason, especially on day one when he actually had much better reasons to vote for Brinniel or CoD who were his co-runners for lynching. He leaves voting until after Mith has voted (and also poked him to vote quickly) and he is then safe to vote for me - as was no doubt planned by them. Note that Mith's excuse that they voted at the same time doesn't wash as wolves could have planned this exit stratgy all along beforehand.

Then on the next day, he builds a mild case to vote for me again, while Mith cunningly avoids voting for me and builds a slight suspicion (and gets Gwath out of the way without attracting suspicion by leaving a trail).

Today, following the murder of Brinn, they are straight in with the accusations based on the spurious excuse of me forgetting to read the rules. Yet when I was looking at evidence today, I found a post I made towards deadline on the first day, where I mention something about holding on to my vote for Brinn and not changing it even after she made a good defence.

Very cunning, to have a plan and not join together on it until the 3rd day...however, it does depend rather on there being a bandwagon forming.

It could, however, be possible that only one of them is the wolf and that Page 4 is simply an example of one wolf trying to signal to a cobbler who they are. In which case, if this is a Mith/Boro wolf/cobbler thing (it would be Mith as Wolf and Boro as cobbler, if you look at page 4) our votes are being split and someone else is trying to rope in votes for another victim elsewhere. Divide and Conquer. It won't matter which one the wolves see lynched, because they will be able to eat the runner up tonight, and there will always be at least one of them undetected...so far.

[Boromir88]

The last comment (shouting "I'm an ordo, I'm an ordo!" just before the deadline could be the reaction of a seer who suddenly noticed he was a bit too open, or a reverse-psychology hint to the ranger for the same reason)~Mac
Or an ordinary innocent who knows it's no big loss if he gets lynched.

Day2: His theory about Brinn... you can explain it as often as you like, to me, it still carries the smell of getting her to make herself look bad with a defense and then sitting back and enjoying the show.~Mac
Umm...that's not how it happened, I didn't sit back. If I did what you are suggesting why did I go back and defend her when Nogrod went after her defense?

How is this for a wolf-strategy: Pick a villager (Lal) who isn't listened to much but who is also unlikely to get lynched quickly, and then consistently go after her. Your cases will look sensible and consistent but it will take a long while until the victim's death makes you look bad and forces you to make wrong cases against somebody new.~Mac
You should know by now, as a wolf, I have no troubles about casting the lynching, seal the deal, vote for an innocent. I don't know why I'm saying this, because you're going to say I'm using reverse psychology and Nogrod is going to say "ya that's what you want us to think" but whatever...

If I was a wolf I would have had no problems lynching Brin on Day 1, no matter what I said throughout the day, I would have had no problems doing it. Because you better believe I could come right back the next day and defend it.

Nogrod wants to see the straight forward, no outrageous conspiracy Boro...well why don't you go back and just look at the hard evidence Mac (the votes). Dump all the reverse-psychology crap and just look at it, why would (as a wolf) I not either attempt to save CoD (by voting for Brin) or vote for CoD and sacrifice him? When you look at it, it's right in front of your face, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I just knew I didn't want to vote for Brin, I didn't want to vote for CoD, I'm not going to vote for myself, so I went with my top suspect.

Edit: crossed with Lal...I hope anyone with brains can see how misleading that post is...
Boro had me lined up from day one with no good reason, especially on day one when he actually had much better reasons to vote for Brinniel or CoD who were his co-runners for lynching.
When did I state that I had much better reasons to vote for CoD or Brin over you? I didn't buy into Mac's reasons for suspecting her, and the only time I mentioned CoD was when I said I think he's going to be the victim of a wolf bandwagon. I specifically came out and stated my reasons for suspecting you:
Lalwende, 1 point for posting and being present, yet not giving us any sort of depth as far as her thoughts. Seems like she's got an evil secret to hide. 1 point for being careful and staying out of any sort of confrontation. .5 for referring to me as fishy, then claiming:
I don't think anyone needs to be told they weren't good reasons, but to me, they were as good as any from Day 1.

Note that Mith's excuse that they voted at the same time doesn't wash as wolves could have planned this exit stratgy all along beforehand.
So, you're saying that during the first night, Mith, CoD, and I, set up this scheme to get two of us in trouble and then Mith chooses which one of us she wants to save? And I thought Nogrod was far fetched! Sorry Lal, but anyone who knows my wolvish habits, knows I never pre-plan going into the village...never! I wait to see how the village is acting, what things they're looking for, and then I plan.

[Macalaure]

Or an ordinary innocent who knows it's no big loss if he gets lynched.That's the question.

Umm...that's not how it happened, I didn't sit back. If I did what you are suggesting why did I go back and defend her when Nogrod went after her defense?You're right there, "sitting back" doesn't describe it correctly. You used the opportunity to make yourself look better after Brinn had been lynched. Or let's say, if you're a wolf, that's what you did. The problem is that there's always a way to interpret a thing both ways. My feeling tells me the evil way is the right one.

You should know by now, as a wolf, I have no troubles about casting the lynching, seal the deal, vote for an innocent. I don't know why I'm saying this, because you're going to say I'm using reverse psychology and Nogrod is going to say "ya that's what you want us to think" but whatever...
Well, you will have to admit that the "If I was a wolf, this is the way I would play" argument is not the most convincing one. ;)

Nogrod wants to see the straight forward, no outrageous conspiracy Boro...well why don't you go back and just look at the hard evidence Mac (the votes). Dump all the reverse-psychology crap and just look at it, why would (as a wolf) I not either attempt to save CoD (by voting for Brin) or vote for CoD and sacrifice him? When you look at it, it's right in front of your face, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I just knew I didn't want to vote for Brin, I didn't want to vote for CoD, I'm not going to vote for myself, so I went with my top suspect.
I overlooked that first, and now that Mith pointed it out, it's what I'm thinking about.
You say you had absolutely no idea what you were doing. If it applies to Bordomir, it could apply to Wolf-Boromir as well...


edit: crossed with Boro's edit

[Boromir88]

Mac, what are you thoughts on Lal?

[Lalwendë]

When did I state that I had much better reasons to vote for CoD or Brin over you? I didn't buy into Mac's reasons for suspecting her, and the only time I mentioned CoD was when I said I think he's going to be the victim of a wolf bandwagon.

You had no need to state any reasons to vote for CoD or Brinn, they were on the lynching bandwagon along with you, so only a suicidal cobbler would choose not to vote for them in that situation (and everyone would go yeah, cool, he's just saving his skin) - unless of course, like you, he had just been Saved By The Mith ;)

[QUOTE]So, you're saying that during the first night, Mith, CoD, and I, set up this scheme to get two of us in trouble and then Mith chooses which one of us she wants to save?

Not a plan to get into trouble, but a rescue plan if you did ;)

And I thought Nogrod was far fetched! Sorry Lal, but anyone who knows my wolvish habits, knows I never pre-plan going into the village...never! I wait to see how the village is acting, what things they're looking for, and then I plan.

I keep hearing you and Mith vehemently state you Do Not Do That In Werewolf but what a perfect smoke screen to cover up for evildoing, eh?

[Nerwen]

I second that. What are your thoughts on Lal, Mac?

In fact, anyone's thoughts on Lal would be welcome. Who's played with her before? Is she normally like this? Can she have been serious about thinking she was on the menu?

And while we're waiting, I'll give you my thoughts on Mac.

Out of everyone, he does appear the most innocent– and not just because of his fortuitous Day One vote. Everything he's done since then has simply shone with purity... so much so that I fully expected him to be the one eaten last Night.

In fact so innocent does Mac appear that if he's still alive toMorrow, I suggest the Seer check him out, just to be on the safe side.;)

EDIT: X'd with Lal.

[Boromir88]

I keep hearing you and Mith vehemently state you Do Not Do That In Werewolf but what a perfect smoke screen to cover up for evildoing, eh?
We don't. It would be foolhardy to come up with a plan before knowing how the village is reacting.

It's interesting Lal, that for the last two days you said my Day 1 vote doesn't make me look like a wolf. I turn the pressure up on you and now I must be a wolf? Mith jumps on and thus we both must be wolves. You've completely ruled out any possibility that we're innocent.

I have to go...

++Lalwende

[Nerwen]

Well, we can't accuse Boro of inconsistency, can we?:D

[Boromir88]

Oh and a couple more things, if I'm lynched, so be it...it'll be your loss.

If Lal tries any sort of fake reveal, I would ask the real gifted to not step out to save me. It wouldn't be worth it.

Lal if you're lynched and innocent, I'm sorry for being so dead wrong.

Edit: crossed with Nerwen the last 2 times.

Well, we can't accuse Boro of inconsistency, can we?

I guess not...I've only voted for somebody 3 straight days once (Formendacil).

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

So I was writing this summary/analysis of Fea's post, and then just when I was about to start with DAY 3, the computer decided it's the perfect time to freeze and splutter and die.

*sigh*

Enedwaith, I think she's innocent, if a bit too tactical. If that's of any help.

[Isabellkya]

To Boro:

I didn't say everyone. I suppose it is more phrasings used when making an argument. Either way, it rang bells to see "what the heck's" used two posts after I used them, in conjunction with the same person - when I don't recall seeing them before that.

I said that, because of how the two of you interacted. 'What do you think about this person'; 'I'll do this if you might do that'. It gave me the feeling of two people out picking curtains, or a new couch - not wolf hunting.



X'd with Nilp.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

In fact, anyone's thoughts on Lal would be welcome. Who's played with her before? Is she normally like this? Can she have been serious about thinking she was on the menu? (Nerwen)I started thinking she may be t3h Cobbler yesterDAY, ergo, I ignored her. Although she may be a bold Wolf.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

She is not being too helpful, getting obsessed with 'Oh, I'll be killed tomorrow!' and getting into fights and whatnot. But with only two Wolves I don't think a Lalwendë-wolf would risk doing this unless she's sure the last Wolf can win it all.

Hmm . . . maybe the Wolf-on-Wolf voting idea wasn't so bad, after all . . .

[Lalwendë]

It's interesting Lal, that for the last two days you said my Day 1 vote doesn't make me look like a wolf. I turn the pressure up on you and now I must be a wolf? Mith jumps on and thus we both must be wolves. You've completely ruled out any possibility that we're innocent.

I examined the possibility and likelihood of your innocence the past two days but now I have found Page 4 and read it in the light of the voting and the odd accusations. I suppose this is what happens when it gets hot, everyone gets burned ;)

Oh and a couple more things, if I'm lynched, so be it...it'll be your loss.

If Lal tries any sort of fake reveal, I would ask the real gifted to not step out to save me. It wouldn't be worth it.


That makes as much sense as the Push-me, Pull-you. If he goes, it's a loss, but if he goes, it's no loss? I'm reminded of what Mith said about filibustering....;)

Now I'm quite sure that Boro is mending the shoes Mith has torn through in her nightly transformations.

[Nogrod]

Darn what a day! (RL that is)

So an hour to go through the stuff then... *dives in*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Temporarily considered a negligible threat: Nilp, Nogrod, Mac, Shasta

Worrisome: Rikae, Nerwen, Boro, Mith, Lal

I'm barely aware they're playing: Sally, McCaber, Izzy, Fea

I'd hoped to be around between now and deadline (out of class at 12:10, deadline at 1:00), but something came up and I have to run out in a few minutes and won't be back fast enough to vote.

++MITHALWEN

Sorry, darling. You know I love you, but...

[Mithalwen]

I am only vehemently refuting absolute balderdash. I don't claim to know what the wolves think about Lal's theories but I can't see why she thinks they would be so interested in them... after all she hadn't exactly been a threat to them. Not like she had voted for a wolf or something. Of course on Planet Lalwende getting a wolf killed makes you a wolf whereas NOT doing so - makes you wolvish enemy number one. And for all her bluster you haven't answered what you were playing at by pointing out my possible "special" role. I cannot imagine a scenario in which your behaviour fits an innocent.

Oh and since you seem determined I am a wolf could you decide whether I am a stupid one who lynches a packmate completely unnecessarily or some kind of uber machiavellian one who spends her life making byzantine plans.... :rolleyes:

Nerwen if I were a wolf who wanted to silence Gwathagor why wouldn't I have jumped on Nogrod's vote for him on day 1 ? Of course becasue it would make SO much more sense for me to kill a pack mate when I have such a good record of surviving to the end as a wolf... I had to make an early vote or no vote... so much easier if I were a wolf to say "oh I hoped to get back and vote but X cropped up"... instead of saying I would be away and saying so...

[Mithalwen]

++MITHALWEN

Sorry, darling. You know I love you, but...

you can't read me at all .... ah well at least I might feel it is really safe to trust Boromir now....

[Lalwendë]

Oh and since you seem determined I am a wolf could you decide whether I am a stupid one who lynches a packmate completely unnecessarily or some kind of uber machiavellian one who spends her life making byzantine plans.... :rolleyes:


Page 4.

You had no option but to dive in and lynch a packmate. :eek:

[Macalaure]

Mac, what are you thoughts on Lal?

Not sure yet. She's the next on my list to look at closely. From the top of my head I'd say some good thoughts mixed with quite some incoherence. Can't really tell whether lupine or not. Nerwen is number two, because I have given her far too little attention so far.

Out of everyone, he does appear the most innocent– and not just because of his fortuitous Day One vote. Everything he's done since then has simply shone with purity...

Thanks! :)

so much so that I fully expected him to be the one eaten last Night.

In fact so innocent does Mac appear that if he's still alive toMorrow, I suggest the Seer check him out, just to be on the safe side. ;)

Hey! :eek:

[Isabellkya]

I'm debating between Nog and Sally right now.
Maybe Nilp for his initial posts of copy.


I find Lal comedic. Yes, some of the things she says are from left field; whether or not this is how you usually are - you are committed.

From her actions, she could quite honestly be anything.

Cobbler, trying to draw attention from Gifted's and make herself known to the wolves.

Gifted, using the actions as a Cobblery cover - so the chance of her being eaten at night could be smaller. Risky, since the chance of being lynched are higher.

Wolf, trying to look like a Cobbler so she isn't killed off. Wolves won't waste a night kill on a Cobbler and innocents won't waste a lynch on one; if there are better targets.


X'ed with Lal and Mac.

[McCaber]

So a quick recap of my opinions:

Almost guaranteed innocent:
Mac
Mith
Izzy

Probably innocent:
Boro
Nogrod
Fea
Nilp
Shasta

Probably wolf:
Rikae
Nerwen
sally

Cobbler:
Lal

[Nogrod]

so much so that I fully expected him to be the one eaten last Night.

In fact so innocent does Mac appear that if he's still alive toMorrow, I suggest the Seer check him out, just to be on the safe side.

Hey! :eek:What an interesting choice of a smilie! So that's how you feel about being checked by the seer? :eek: I already said you were playing too smothly to be a good guy! Should I start to believe that as well? :confused:

[Mithalwen]

Page 4.

You had no option but to dive in and lynch a packmate. :eek:

Rubbish a, I have no packmates in this game therefore that could not be an option.
but ot humour you, I repeat, there was a three way split most of the way. There are only 3 wolves go figure. My question to Boromir was simple incredulity.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

you can't read me at all .... ah well at least I might feel it is really safe to trust Boromir now....

Either that or you can't read me.

[Mithalwen]

No I never can and frankly it drives me nuts when you and TP do all that, I think X may have picked up on Y because I never get it.... but since I love you too I will try to believe that you want me dead in my own best interests....:rolleyes:

[Macalaure]

Before I go and see whether I have the time to check Lal, here's an overview of my thoughts, just to get them out of my head.

Suspicious:
Boro - far from being sure about him, but he's my best bet right now.

Mildly suspicious:
Nilp
Sally

Not sure:
Fea - probably innocent, but you can never really tell with her.
Lal - next on my to-look-at-list
Mith - probably innocent, but if Boro is a wolf, it would make her look a lot different.

Mildly innocent:
Isabellkya - no alarms, but no assurance either.
Nerwen - no alarms, but really needs another look.
Nogrod
Rikae - still can't get myself to find her completely innocent. In the not-so-distant future, I will have to have a closer look at her.

Innocent:
McCaber

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Don't worry, mum, at least I love you.

Enedwaith, so I have no-one to vote toDAY -- ignoring Lalwendë cos I really think she's a Cobbler and not a Furrier. Hehe.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I miss the phantom right now. He'd get a kick out of what I'm about to do. I wonder if anyone else will understand...

Here are my rules:

1) For the love of all things holy, will the real seer PLEASE not refute me?

2) Don't listen to a word I say.

Here's my action:

Village, I am the seer.

[Macalaure]

What an interesting choice of a smilie! So that's how you feel about being checked by the seer? :eek:
Makes me feel naked. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No I never can and frankly it drives me nuts when you and TP do all that, I think X may have picked up on Y because I never get it....

Sorry, I just cross-posted with this.

In which case, please forgive me for what I've just done?

[Mithalwen]

I love you back, birthday boy *hugs*, and I agree that Lalwende is probably a cobbler.... but is doing all too well at getting our eyes off the target.

[Lalwendë]

Rubbish a, I have no packmates in this game therefore that could not be an option.
but ot humour you, I repeat, there was a three way split most of the way. There are only 3 wolves go figure. My question to Boromir was simple incredulity.

Makes no difference. I think your question to Boro was you trying to see if he was the Cobbler, and now from looking at the way things have panned out I think he is. There are two more wolves to hunt, yourself included. I just hope that if I survive bandwagons and night-time wolf feasts that I can figure out the third party tomorrow.

++ Mithalwen

[Nerwen]

You had no option but to dive in and lynch a packmate. :eek:

Um... you know, Lal, all I was trying to tell you yesterday was that it's possible one or more of the CoD voters was a wolf– since you claimed no wolf would ever lynch another– not that it's certain!:rolleyes:

EDIT: X'd since McCaber at 360.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry, I just cross-posted with this.

In which case, please forgive me for what I've just done?


Seeing as it is you ... and I know you can make the sky rain diamonds at times.... as long as you forgive me for not being able to see such things ..far more a Barliman Butturbur type .. takes me time to see through brick walls.

[McCaber]

Here's my action:

Village, I am the seer.
For some reason I am so tempted to contradict you, but it would serve no purpose. Ah well.

[Mithalwen]

Just in case ... because I am not one of those people who don't like to say "I told you so" . I do love to say "I told you so".

so i I am dead at Six.... "I told you I so"
:cool:

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

*hugs mum*

So, lists are all the vogue, eh?

Wuv:
Mac
Mummie
Izzy
McCaber

Meh:
Nogrod
Boro
Nerwen
Fea
Rikae

Huh?
Sally

Grr:
Lalwendë

Hmm, so I might vote for Sally. :D

[Isabellkya]

Crap gotta go.
Just when things took a turn, oh dear.


++Nogrod



X'ed since 372.
I'm confused now.

[Nogrod]

Darn Vista!

Just as I was posting it shut the computer to get an update to the system (I had turned that request down two times as I wanted to play first). I'll sue Microsoft one day for these automatic thinking of the best of the user -things...

But what I was saying was shortly that:

I think Boro is a cobbler or an ordo.

I think Lal is a cobbler or an ordo.

I don't think either of them is a wolf... which leaves me quite empty handed with our wolves who seem to be playing nicely. Fortunately we lynched CoD and there are only two of them so we still have time...

[Lalwendë]

*hugs mum*

So, lists are all the vogue, eh?

Wuv:
Mac
Mummie
Izzy
McCaber

Meh:
Nogrod
Boro
Nerwen
Fea
Rikae

Huh?
Sally

Grr:
Lalwendë

Hmm, so I might vote for Sally. :D

Wolf child! ;)

:eek:

[McCaber]

umm...

++sally

nothing if not consistent.

[Mithalwen]

Village, I am the seer.

Like to tell us who you didn't dream of?

Anyway wish I could get a woluf but surviving and a cobbler would do for today.

++ Lalwende

[Nogrod]

Crap gotta go.
Just when things took a turn, oh dear.


++NogrodJust when things took a turn you decided to go with your nice suspcion of old... I'd liked to have known what is it for... Surely you haven't given any reason in ages - and it's exactly that which worries me. I mean an innocent would try to elaborate her/his "case" as days go by as one wouldn't like to lynch an innocent. But you sem to be just too happy to leave a nice picture of you going with a "grounded" vote not bothering to check your "grounds".

Hmm...

[Nerwen]

I was having a serious think about voting for the de facto cobbler– that's what Lalwendë is, whatever her official role– just to get her out of the way– but I think I'll go with

++Boromir88

EDIT: X'd since Lalwendë at 379.

EDIT 2: Meaning I missed the Fea sensation.

What the-?

[Mithalwen]

Wolf child! ;)

:eek:


If he is it doesn't get it from me.... but I have always thought furbabies were cuter ... may be aquiring a cat from some folks who can't cope with a baby and a kitten.... inexplicably it is the gorgeous tabby that is up for adoption....

[satansaloser2005]

Darn Vista!

Just as I was posting it shut the computer to get an update to the system (I had turned that request down two times as I wanted to play first). I'll sue Microsoft one day for these automatic thinking of the best of the user -things...

But what I was saying was shortly that:

I think Boro is a cobbler or an ordo.

I think Lal is a cobbler or an ordo.

I don't think either of them is a wolf... which leaves me quite empty handed with our wolves who seem to be playing nicely. Fortunately we lynched CoD and there are only two of them so we still have time...


To the Vista comment: I feel your pain, sweetheart. If I could keep my computer funcitonal this game would be going a lot better.


Quick list of stuff while I continue to catch up:

Fea's "reveal"....what???!?!?!?!?!?
Lal is looking pretty shady, and Mith continues to confuse me.
Rikae really wants me dead. Why? (Not that I'm complaining, she's not succeeded yet, but she's after me like no other. I wonder....blah, have to talk about that later)
Mac seems thoroughly convinced of Boro's guilt. I can't say I disagree, but his (Mac's) vote toDay might reshape my opinion of both of them. Maybe Mac sacrificed one wolf to save another? In which case the "Borowolf! Borowolf!" campaign is THE biggest risk ever. I think there's a wolf between the two of them for sure, just not sure which one yet. Maybe a cobbler at least....
Speaking of Boro, he still seems off to me. I can't decide whether he's evil, an Igor (aka cobbler), or just confusing me for giggles. Blah.


Submitting this now. At the moment I still want to vote Nogrod, even though I sympathize with the poor guy's computer problems. You can see my other suspects by my thoughts above, so yeah.

[Macalaure]

I knew there was not enough time. I was only able to get a skim-read of Lal now (til Day2). Her idea that she might be eaten is strange, to say the least. Her theories of what wolves might do are as well. Both do not really point towards her being a wolf, I think, to cobblerdom maybe, but I'm mostly getting the feeling of a careless ordo.

[satansaloser2005]

*hugs mum*

So, lists are all the vogue, eh?

Wuv:
Mac
Mummie
Izzy
McCaber

Meh:
Nogrod
Boro
Nerwen
Fea
Rikae

Huh?
Sally

Grr:
Lalwendë

Hmm, so I might vote for Sally. :D




I'm confused. You find Lal most suspicious but are choosing to vote someone else? (Never mind that it's me. Heh you ungrateful son of a Sycorax. ;))


Grrrr. I need a minute or two to think.

[Nerwen]

Fea's "reveal"....what???!?!?!?!?!?

My sentiments exactly.

WHAT???!?!?!?!?!?

[satansaloser2005]

I was having a serious think about voting for the de facto cobbler– that's what Lalwendë is, whatever her official role– just to get her out of the way– but I think I'll go with

++Boromir88

EDIT: X'd since Lalwendë at 379.



Again. Confused. Adding another candidate this close to deadline never makes me happy. (Unless he DOES have a previous vote and I missed it, in which case mildly disregard this comment)


(Sorry for the triple post if there is one as I suspect. I'm skimming through and keep realizing I'm missing things. Blah.)

EDIT: No triple post after all. x'd with Nerwen.

EDIT #2: Happy birthday, Nilp!

[Nogrod]

Just went back to check the situation...

Sally, Lal, Mith and Nogrod 2 votes
Boro 1 vote

[Lalwendë]

If he is it doesn't get it from me.... but I have always thought furbabies were cuter ... may be aquiring a cat from some folks who can't cope with a baby and a kitten.... inexplicably it is the gorgeous tabby that is up for adoption....

OT

Can't cope with both? Poor kitty :( Give him a home! :)

[Macalaure]

Rikae -> Sally
Shasta -> Nogrod
Boro -> Lal
Fea -> Mith
Lal -> Mith (Mith 2, Sally, Nogrod, Lal 1)
Izzy -> Nogrod (Mith, Nogrod 2, Sally, Lal 1)
Caber -> Sally (Mith, Nogrod, Sally 2, Lal 1)
Mith -> Lal (Mith, Nogrod, Sally, Lal 2)
Nerwen -> Boro (Mith, Nogrod, Sally, Lal 2, Boro 1)

[Mithalwen]

I can't decide whether he's evil, an Igor (aka cobbler), or just confusing me for giggles. Blah.

.

I still can't quite cope with him being nice to me - considering he ripped me apart when we were on the same side... but confusing for giggles is a good eachway bet. I would discount cobbler - he would have no compunction in getting me killed if he were a cobbler. I am leaning towards innocence but he is a very confident wolf so .....

[satansaloser2005]

Just went back to check the situation...

Sally, Lal, Mith and Nogrod 2 votes
Boro 1 vote


Make that three for


++Nogrod


Again, of my suspects he's top of the list. I wouldn't mind a Lal lynch either, but at the moment I've got bigger Finns, erm fish, to fry. ;)

[Nogrod]

Fëa isn't exactly helping to be sure... A third cobbler candidate is a bit too much for me.

[Nerwen]

I knew there was not enough time. I was only able to get a skim-read of Lal now (til Day2). Her idea that she might be eaten is strange, to say the least. Her theories of what wolves might do are as well. Both do not really point towards her being a wolf, I think, to cobblerdom maybe, but I'm mostly getting the feeling of a careless ordo.

Or a newbie wolf? ...but if so, I'd think her remaining packmate would have told her to pipe down after yesterDay.

[satansaloser2005]

Fëa isn't exactly helping to be sure... A third cobbler candidate is a bit too much for me.


Yeah. Let's leave cobblers for another day (or night, if the wolves decide to be silly like my last game ;)) and work on wolves for now. Savvy? ;)

[Macalaure]

Who still has to vote and which way are you tending?

[Mithalwen]

OT

Can't cope with both? Poor kitty :( Give him a home! :)

Her .... am tempted but she is very young so a big commitment ... had thought could cope with a venerable cat who had given up hunting and just wants food ,warmth, comfort and a bit of fuss.... we'll see.

[Nogrod]

Make that three for


++Nogrod


Again, of my suspects he's top of the list.Funny you should act exacly like Izzy: no new ideas, no grounds just the vote.

Like I said, an ordo would try her/his suspcions to be sure s/he is not having it wrong but some people need to watch first how consistent they seem or things like that.

[Mithalwen]

Who still has to vote and which way are you tending?

Mac - I have two votes ...can you amend your list to show ?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm confused. You find Lal most suspicious but are choosing to vote someone else? (Never mind that it's me. Heh you ungrateful son of a Sycorax. ;)) (Sally)Cos, she be Cobbler, and I don't want her stealing my vote-gathering limelight. :D

Enedwaith, really sorry, but I really no serious suspicions (aside from the aforementioned Cobblery-Lal), so:

++satansaloser2005

[Nogrod]

I would prefer Boro, Lal or Sally

[Macalaure]

I suppose a last minute run at Boromir isn't going to happen?

[Lalwendë]

Her .... am tempted but she is very young so a big commitment ... had thought could cope with a venerable cat who had given up hunting and just wants food ,warmth, comfort and a bit of fuss.... we'll see.

OT - keep her as a house cat and she'll be no bother - go for it, kitties need nice mums!!!

[satansaloser2005]

Cos, she be Cobbler, and I don't want her stealing my vote-gathering limelight. :D

Enedwaith, really sorry, but I really no serious suspicions (aside from the aforementioned Cobblery-Lal), so:

++satansaloser2005

Now that's just not nice. Didn't your mommy ever teach you to share with the other hobbitses?


EDIT: my comment is in response to the first line of Nilp's post, not his vote. Just so it's clear as mud. :p

[Nerwen]

Cos, she be Cobbler, and I don't want her stealing my vote-gathering limelight. :D

Cobbler-candidate #4.:(

*whimpers*

[Nogrod]

I'm afraid not even if I would join. Sadly it would kill me...

[Mithalwen]

But not fair to keep inside when we has lovely garden my precious ... but have spent catless years encouraging birdies :( ... may go for the cowbell route...

[Lalwendë]

Cos, she be Cobbler, and I don't want her stealing my vote-gathering limelight. :D


Is this War of the Psephologists then?

[Nogrod]

++ Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Cobbler-candidate #4.:(

*whimpers*



My thoughts exactly.


I x'd with Nog's last post but quote it anyway (yay for recent replies at the bottom)


I'm afraid not even if I would join. Sadly it would kill me...

Selfish son of a mother. ;)

[Macalaure]

I'm tempted to vote both Mith and Lal for going off-topic that way right before the deadline.


*sigh*

Let's hope the best with this:

++satansaloser2005

[Mithalwen]

All this and now my parenting is questioned.... :rolleyes:

[Durelin]

Day has ended.

satansaloser2005 has been lynched; she was a Werewolf.

[satansaloser2005]

++ Sally


Bugger.


Well, parting words then? If I may?

[Mithalwen]

I'm tempted to vote both Mith and Lal for going off-topic that way right before the deadline.


*sigh*

Let's hope the best with this:

++satansaloser2005

sorry .. bit demob happy and we have both voted...

[satansaloser2005]

Bugger.


Well, parting words then? If I may?

Blast. Didn't mean to submit that. Oh well.




Friends, Gallifreyans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

"Avenge my foul and most unnatural murder." And I say this to....

....

....

....

....




....My lovely wolf partner. I won't make you all suffer. *dies* Enjoy the game!

~~Sally~~



EDIT: x'd with Durelin, who ruined my fun. :( *dies again and stays that way*

[Durelin]

Night 4 is over.

Day 4 has begun.

Rikae has been killed. She was an Ordinary Innocent.

Start talking!

Here's the list...really quite blah of me not to give it to you as it's certainly helpful!


~The Dead~

Leonard Nimoy (Half-Vulcan) ~ illogically murdered by the wolves
CaptainofDespair (Wererat) ~ Crushed on Day 1 to reveal his Dark Side
Day One (Evil Wizard) ~ Brought down alongside the might of Cluny the Scourge
Kath (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Tortured and ripped apart by the wolves on Night 2
Gwathagor (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Assassinated by con-goers on Day 2.
Brinniel (Ordinary Innocent) ~ Made really dead on Night 3.
satansaloser2005 (Werewolf)
Rikae (Ordinary Innocent)


~The Living~

Nerwen - Jedi Master, specializing in memorabilia collecting and movie quoting
Feanor of the Peredhil - Rabid Cosmo fan and TOS-TNG Trekkie with opinions
Boromir88 - Fireworks Pyro and Sean Bean's #1 fan
Nilpaurion Felagund - Noldo with a zanpakutou named Telpelin and the Mangekyou Sharingan
Nogrod - "Spore" anticipator who wants to play Eru
McCaber - Old School RPer
Shastanis Althreduin - Rabid Hermione Fan-wizard
Mithalwen - Confused hardcore Tolkienista who thought she was going to Oxonmoot
Isabellkya - Rabid fan of Vampire Princess Miyu
Lalwendë - "In The Night Garden" Fan-mother
Macalaure - "Civilization" fan with Machiavellian tendencies

[Lalwendë]

Just time to post up the votes before I go and serve up my middle class chicken and chips (being chicken wrapped in bacon with roast potatoes ;)).

Kath (Deceased) - Brinn / n/a
CoD (Deceased) - Day 1 / n/a
Gwath (deceased) - Rikae / Nogrod / n/a
Brinn (Deceased) - Mac / Sally / n/a
Sally (deceased) - Boro / Nogrod / Nogrod
Rikae (deceased) - Sally / McCaber / Sally
Nerwen - ??? / Boro / Boro
Fea - Boro / Boro / Mith
Boro - Lal / Lal / Lal
Nilp - ??? / Gwath / Sally
Nogrod - Gwath / Gwath / Sally
McCaber - CoD / Sally / Sally
Shasta - Boro / ??? / Nogrod
Mith - CoD / Gwath / Lal
Isabellkya - CoD / Nogrod / Nogrod
Lalwendë - Brinn / McCaber / Mith

Mac - CoD / Gwath / Sally

[Mithalwen]

Ah I was wondering how you could tell if a chicken were middle class, I had thought you meant it knew which cutlery it should be eaten with. I am going to read through again in the light of Rikae's death. The only thought I have fromskimming at lunchtime is better not shared for now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Boromir, do you want me to vote for Lal today?

[Mithalwen]

Don't vote for me again will you darling, it really isn't helpful.... assuming you are on the side of the angels rather than a cobbler asking a wolf for instructions -which would be a tad blatant even for you...:Merisu:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Don't vote for me again will you darling, it really isn't helpful.... assuming you are on the side of the angels rather than a cobbler asking a wolf for instructions -which would be a tad blatant even for you...:Merisu:

Well at least at this point you know that if nothing else, I'm not a wolf asking another wolf for instructions.

And don't worry, I don't actually want to lynch you. I won't stop the village if they try it, but I won't be joining the party.

[Mithalwen]

Well as the man said I would not be the greatest loss.... but... I will go and play while the great ones discuss high matters....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well as the man said I would not be the greatest loss.... but... I will go and play while the great ones discuss high matters....

Hope you're not considering me to be one of the great ones... I wouldn't know a high matter if it hallucinated at me.

[Mithalwen]

cognoscenti if you prefer....

[Lalwendë]

Just time to post up the votes before I go and serve up my middle class chicken and chips (being chicken wrapped in bacon with roast potatoes ;)).

Kath (Deceased) - Brinn / n/a
CoD (Deceased) - Day 1 / n/a
Gwath (deceased) - Rikae / Nogrod / n/a
Brinn (Deceased) - Mac / Sally / n/a
Sally (deceased) - Boro / Nogrod / Nogrod
Rikae (deceased) - Sally / McCaber / Sally
Nerwen - ??? / Boro / Boro
Fea - Boro / Boro / Mith
Boro - Lal / Lal / Lal
Nilp - ??? / Gwath / Sally
Nogrod - Gwath / Gwath / Sally
McCaber - CoD / Sally / Sally
Shasta - Boro / ??? / Nogrod
Mith - CoD / Gwath / Lal
Isabellkya - CoD / Nogrod / Nogrod
Lalwendë - Brinn / McCaber / Mith
Mac - CoD / Gwath / Sally

I was surprised at Sally - though she did get a bit panicky at the end there - and I suppose if minds aren't already made up and you dare risk being close to deadline, then that's a good place to find a wolf. Alas, I may have to get a vote in early tomorrow due to being busy so I might not get to give that a bash.

Anyway, obvious things from the above list.... If we do not have wolf-on-wolf voting....

Not Sus: Nilp, Nogrod, McCaber, Mith, Isabellkya, Mac
Sus: Nerwen, Fea, Boro, Shasta

However, it all depends on whether or not there has been WoW votes, and there's a strong case for that. Though I think we could eliminate those who have multiple votes to lynch wolves. McCaber and Mac are therefore definitely good guys! And I don't think I'll be listening with two ears if anyone else claims to be the Seer ;)

[Boromir88]

Boromir, do you want me to vote for Lal today?~Fea
If you think it would be beneficial, than go ahead...but I have a feeling she's not the last wolf, she's the tricksy cobbler.

I'm not quite sure why you're happy to still see me alive, but I'm not complaining.

[Lalwendë]

Ah I was wondering how you could tell if a chicken were middle class, I had thought you meant it knew which cutlery it should be eaten with.

That's if it's an Organic one - it practically comes out of the wrapping with a copy of the Guardian under it's plucked wing. I added Lancashire cheese between pig and hen and it turned out very nicely anyway...

I have a feeling she's not the last wolf.

Must be a strong one, what what? ;)

[Macalaure]

Rikae is dead? You... you... there are no words in Entish, Elvish, or the tongues of Men (that would not get deleted from a mod) for this!

Well, I guess it doesn't make much sense to bemoan her death now. Only one wolf left while both gifteds and many ordos are still alive. That sounds like pretty good odds for us, but that one wolf needs to be caught still. With Rikae's death and all the stuff that happened near the deadline, I think I have a few opinions to revise now.

[Mithalwen]

Guardian is more lefty, Islington pseudo intelligentsia middle-class traitors - make it the Telegraph and source chook from Waitrose....:p

[Mithalwen]

Rikae is dead? You... you... there are no words in Entish, Elvish, or the tongues of Men (that would not get deleted from a mod) for this!

.

Calm down dear! It is only a game. And she did pick up on Sally before anyone else which may have been a factor if the last wolf followed Sally's request.

The odds are good but if the last wolf is among the quieter souls then it may be hard to spot them. :S Night kills may end up being the clues and that is not ideal. Of course with the seer and ranger it makes it harder for them because if they think they have spotted the seer there is a good chance the ranger will spot the same signs and they then have to decide whether to risk it.

[Lalwendë]

Guardian is more lefty, Islington pseudo intelligentsia middle-class traitors - make it the Telegraph and source chook from Waitrose....:p

Actually, yeah, no chicken would be seen... errr... dead with a copy of the Guardian. Now, if it was a piece of Quorn in a Jamie Oliver sauce, now you're talking ;)

[Nogrod]

Now where are the celebrations?

One wolf left (and the cobbler) in a village of 11 with the seer and ranger still alive! So 1-10 in counting the outcome, or 2-9 in intentions or alignments, which means we have about five Days to find the last wolf.

We can't lose this. Or if we do... then we shall have to blame our incapability for the wolf has really a hard time to survive now alone.

I'm going to look back at yesterDay and will promise not to make such a gigantic post I made yesterDay of it. :rolleyes:

[Macalaure]

The fact that the votes were so spread and we still got a wolf is interesting.

Rikae -> Sally
Shasta -> Nogrod (not a surprise, he's been after him for a while)
Boro -> Lal (no surprise at all)
Fea -> Mith (not commenting on Fea at all now, though I wish I could - let the wolf figure her out alone)
Lal -> Mith (made sense from her point of view)
Izzy -> Nogrod (this vote might be shady)
McCaber -> Sally (consistently after her. If he's a wolf, he's the most lupocidal one ever)
Mith -> Lal (again, made sense from her point of view)
Nerwen -> Boro (see below)
Sally -> Nogrod (this vote puts Nogrod into a pretty good light, there were so many other choices to vote for)
Nilp -> Sally (very innocent vote)
Nogrod -> Sally (self-preservation)
me -> Sally (out of all Sally-votes, probably the least innocent-looking)

Well, that was less yielding than I thought... the remaining wolf is making his/her cases well, I suppose. Judging by vote placement only, the people who gave a second vote to not-Sally are the most suspicious: Lal, Izzy, Mith. Nerwen is, too: the way she voted, it's a throwaway. If you start something new close to the deadline, you have to be active and get others to follow. She didn't.

I will look at what can be learned from Rikae and Sally later.


Calm down dear! It is only a game.Actually, I was half-joking there. *needs to use more smileys* ;)

[Mithalwen]

Rikae really wants me dead. Why? (Not that I'm complaining, she's not succeeded yet, but she's after me like no other. I wonder....blah, have to talk about that later)Sally posted this yesterday.

Maybe the last wolf thought that she was the Seer.

Mac..I know that - there was an annoying car insurance commercial here where someone gets very agitated about their car being hit and is told "Calm down dear, it's only a commercial"....

[Mithalwen]

Have to leave soon.... anyone out there before I say goodbye?

[Lalwendë]

Rikae really wants me dead. Why? (Not that I'm complaining, she's not succeeded yet, but she's after me like no other. I wonder....blah, have to talk about that later)Sally posted this yesterday.

Maybe the last wolf thought that she was the Seer.

Mac..I know that - there was an annoying car insurance commercial here where someone gets very agitated about their car being hit and is told "Calm down dear, it's only a commercial"....

Michael Winner creeps into WW? Meh.

It wasn't just Rikae who wanted Sally dead so you could be right there, as why would she pick on Rikae? Though Rikae had flown right under the radar yesterday so she was probably a really easy meal. There will almost certainly be no traces but I'm going to look anyway.

I was hoping to bung more on tonight but I had to go and help clean up baby vomit. And then change all the sheets. And put baby vests to soak and so on. And I found Shelob dead inside the duvet cover. :eek: Eyuw.

[Nogrod]

Okay and here we go again... (I see Mac has done about the same thing but well, now we havew two accounts of yesterDay's voting. Interesting to see if they differ...

Rikae -> Sally
(01.39)
For her voting mainly… also her other posting.

Sally1

Shasta -> Nogrod
(06.23)
“I didn't like Nog yesterday, I would have voted him yesterday, and he's done nothing to assuage my suspicions today.”

Sally1, Nogrod1

Boro -> Lalwendë
(15.32)
After an intensive and consistent campaign against her.

Sally1, Nogrod1, Lalwendë1

Fëa -> Mith
(15.59)
“Sorry, darling. You know I love you, but...” Only her second post of the Day. Very early on the Day she said: “I could see a Mithwolf in this game...” but that’s all.

Nogrod1, Lalwendë1, Mith1

Lal -> Mith
(16.28)
After a whole Day of a row with her.

Sally1, Nogrod1, Lalwendë1, Mith2

Izzy -> Nogrod
(16.34)
“Crap gotta go. Just when things took a turn, oh dear.” Was consistent though.

Sally1, Nogrod1, Lalwendë1, Mith2

McCaber -> Sally
(16.38)
Had been consistently suspecting Sally for her Day1 voting trying to save CoD (which we now know was a correct idea).

Sally2, Nogrod1, Lalwendë1, Mith2

Mith -> Lalwendë
(16.40)
“Anyway wish I could get a woluf but surviving and a cobbler would do for today.” And we know how they were fighting yesterday anyway.

Sally2, Nogrod1, Lalwendë2, Mith2

Nerwen -> Boro
(16.40)
“I was having a serious think about voting for the de facto cobbler– that's what Lalwendë is, whatever her official role– just to get her out of the way”. Has suspected Boro from his Day1 vote onwards, consistently votes him even if discussed him yesterday not too much (one comment that is).

Sally2, Nogrod2, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1

Sally -> Nogrod
(16.52)
“Again, of my suspects he's top of the list. I wouldn't mind a Lal lynch either, but at the moment I've got bigger Finns, erm fish, to fry.” Is being consistent though.

Sally2, Nogrod3, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1

Nilp -> Sally
(16.55)
Said he didn’t have any serious suspicions but that of Lal the Cobbler.

Sally3, Nogrod3, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1

Nogrod -> Sally
(17.00)
She was one of my top candidates but there were obvious reasons why I chose her from the other possibilities…

Sally4, Nogrod3, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1

Mac -> Sally
(17.00)
“I'm tempted to vote both Mith and Lal for going off-topic that way right before the deadline.” Wished to get Boro lynched. Sally was her suspicion number two (shared place with Nilp).

Sally5, Nogrod3, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1

[Mithalwen]

Gah 'puter has just eaten my post. Still think Lal is best cobbler bet but given that I don't understand what is going on with Fea. Nerwen , Izzy and Shasta are creeping me out. Nerwn probably most. Izzy's vote for CoD could have been wolf on wolf gone bad.... played safe with Nogrod since .. and you can usually make a case for voting Nogrod I find. Though he is looking fairly innocent now by his voting.

Hmm thing that is Goodnight from me now.

[Lalwendë]

So you accept there could have been WoW voting going on?

[Mithalwen]

It happens I never said it doesn't. I contested only that my voting was not wolf on wolf which I knew to be a fact:rolleyes:

But Izzy was swift to point out that she had voted CoD the next day which could have been making the best of a bad job. Or not.... really got to go, tired eyes.. drive..early start...

[Nogrod]

News for you: Boro is not a wolf.

I was just looking back a few things when I realised the following.

On Day1 the voting situation before Sally's vote was:

Sally 1 [wolf]
Boromir 2
Mac 1
Rikae 1 [ordo]
CoD 3 [wolf]
Brinn 2 [ordo]
Gwath 1 [ordo]

And Sally decided to vote for Boro! If Boro is a wolf it would mean that Sally would have raised her other mate to the pole-position alongside the other one just a few minutes before the deadline...


Another thing:

This one raised my eyebrows already yesterDay and helped me feel a bit better about voting for Sally. It's a reply to my half-joking posting about Fëa becoming the third cobbler-candidate with her "revelation". Yeah. Let's leave cobblers for another day (or night, if the wolves decide to be silly like my last game) and work on wolves for now. Savvy?The situation, as everyone remembers, was that many people were thinking about Lal as a cobbler and quite a few thought similarily on Boro. And I think there was something like that in the air as "let's lynch a cobbler if we have no idea about the wolves" - well at least I was getting into that mood. So is it that one of those "cobbler-candidates" is indeed her last packmate or was she just trying to save a presumed cobbler? Or was it just to assure others it being a good idea to lynch me?

At the time she wrote that post the voting was: Sally2, Nogrod3, Lalwendë2, Mith2, Boro1. So Lal had two votes and looking like one plausible candidate to be lynched (Boro 1 vote eg. it was possible he might go for the gallows as well) and Sally had just voted for me herself.

[Nogrod]

Looking at the voting against wolves kind of assured me about a few things. I'm not saying there couldn't have been WoW -votes but looking at the tightness of the race on Day1 I find it quite improbable there (and at least Sally actually tried to save her mate). On Day3 it would be quite suicidal from a wolf to help her/his last mate to go down however good it might look as playing alone against 9 innocents would be the least s/he would wish for (I have tried it once so I know what I'm talking about - I had no chance even if I think I played pretty well).

And looking at the votes on Day3 it seems also that every vote in a way put Sally into the lead which would be dangerous indeed (well, not Mac's vote but he had put CoD to a late lead on Day1 - and mine could be seen as just trying to save myself which is in a way also true).

So.

Voted CoD Day1

McCaber (first vote for CoD when voting was spreading wide)
Isabell (put him to the shared lead)
Macalaure (put CoD to the lead)
Mith (chose CoD over Boro – nailed it)

Voted Sally on Day3

Rikae (known innocent started it)
McCaber (brought Sally into a shared lead)
Nilp (brought Sally into a shared lead)
Nogrod (put Sally in the lead, ahead of himself)
Macalaure (confirmed Sally’s death)



So I'm tempted to say that now as we have only one wolf left I will leave

McCaber
Isabell
Macalaure
Mith
Nilp

in peace unless they do something that really raises my eyebrows.

Adding to the list

Boro

for reasons explained in my last post will leave me with four candidates for wolvery:

Shasta
Fëa
Lalwendë
Nerwen

I'm not promising to eat my hat or anything like that but I will be really surprised if the wolf is not one among the four listed there.

[Lalwendë]

Looking at the voting against wolves kind of assured me about a few things. I'm not saying there couldn't have been WoW -votes but looking at the tightness of the race on Day1 I find it quite improbable there (and at least Sally actually tried to save her mate). On Day3 it would be quite suicidal from a wolf to help her/his last mate to go down however good it might look

I can't rule out page 4 because the evidence is that strong there. No need to look for any kind of mad theories, it's there. All you have to see is that two were going down and one had to be chosen - it's just working out which player thought which other player was in which role.

However I cannot see any reason why, apart from desperation, a wolf would vote WoW, so for me, this rules out Mac and McCaber completely. Anyone else still needs looking at.

[Boromir88]

Lal, since you are without question the cobbler, I'm going to treat you like others treat me when I'm a known wolf. Have fun talking to yourself dear, keep yapping, if it so pleases you. I refuse to go another day bantering with you.

I suggest everyone else do the same.

[Boromir88]

Nerwen, you're going to have some answering to do...

I was having a serious think about voting for the de facto cobbler– that's what Lalwendë is, whatever her official role– just to get her out of the way– but I think I'll go with

++Boromir88
Not only is it another throw away vote from you (like Day 2's vote), but if you believed Lal was the cobbler, why would you think I'm a wolf? I've been after her for over 3 days. Sure the wolves and cobbler don't know eachother, but if you believed so strongly Lal is the cobbler than what's your justification for me being a wolf?

I'm going to have a good long look at Nogrod, sorry, while I agree with your list, and it looks right to me, you can't expect me to exactly find you the most trustworthy person in this situation.

[Isabellkya]

Briefly, I’d like to get this out of my system right away; since I’ve been simmering over it since yesterDay after work.

Isabell, McCaber, Rikae and Lalwendë are pretty consistent all the time. Now that might look good to a hasty player but in the end only the wolves have an easy time being consistent as they know what they are doing... ~Nog

Boro vote Day 1: Lal
Boro vote Day 2: Lal
Boro vote Day 3: Lal

So, first question. Why isn’t Boro on your list of consistency? When you made that post; he’d already voted for her two days in a row. Why leave him out?

Izzy, I've been after Lal since Day 1…. ~Boro

Fea vote Day 1: Boro
Fea vote Day 2: Boro

Second question. Why isn’t Fea on your list of consistency? She has been after Boro since Day 1.

Fëa's insistence on lynching Boro is either having fun with him with no better options around or a perfect wolf-hide. Last time I suspected her on somewhat similar grounds and we lynched her she was an ordo though, so I'm going to be a bit more careful this time with her as long as I'm along in this game. ~Nog
You mentioned it here, but seemed to pawn it off.

Is it just the ‘consistency’ aimed in your direction which you find suspicious, and take note of?
I think you are guilty of this ‘consistency’, which you seem to be paranoid of.

I think, the only reason I wouldn’t vote for you today - is because WolfSally put you in the lead, for two days in a row.

But toDay, it looks like you've got some of the paranoia out of you.


Edit. Fixed a tag.

[Nerwen]

If you believed Lal was the cobbler, why would you think I'm a wolf? I've been after her for over 3 days. Sure the wolves and cobbler don't know eachother, but if you believed so strongly Lal is the cobbler than what's your justification for me being a wolf?

I said de facto cobbler– meaning that she was causing confusion. I did not say I "felt strongly" she was a cobbler. Don't put words into my mouth, please.

Besides, just because I genuinely suspected her doesn't mean you couldn't have been a wolf feigning suspicion.

But that was yesterDay. Now that we know Sally was a wolf I guess that clears you of lupinity– I agree with Nogrod on that one (though he's come up with some pretty dodgy reasoning this game).

EDIT: X'd with Isabellkya

[McCaber]

So are we finally clear that Mac and Iare innocent? Good.

Now that we're all on the same page, I think I can afford to take it easy for a few hours and think it out for a while. 2 gifted and 8 other innocent versus 1 lone wolf - I like our odds.

And I figure that between the mob killings and the seer dreams we can kill/exonerate the five (or so) SPs (suspicious persons) remaining without much difficulty. I hope it doesn't come to that, though.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

My post didn't go through... I sent it through hours ago... maybe my internet acted up. :(

Now that it's 1 in the morning, I'm a bit tired and not inclined to re-type the whole thing. The gist: I still don't like Nogrod, but as Sally (really, dear? really?) was a wolf, it puts him in a more innocent light. I do like and agree with his list (even if I am on it, :p).

Hopefully will post more on the morrow, depending on how early I wake up.

[Nerwen]

So are we finally clear that Mac and I are innocent?

Unless we're dealing with a wolf suicide squad.:D

*cues Lal's next theory*

And while we're on the subject of Lal...

I can't rule out page 4 because the evidence is that strong there. No need to look for any kind of mad theories, it's there. All you have to see is that two were going down and one had to be chosen - it's just working out which player thought which other player was in which role.

However I cannot see any reason why, apart from desperation, a wolf would vote WoW, so for me, this rules out Mac and McCaber completely. Anyone else still needs looking at.

This post is hurting my brain. Paragraph 2 appears to be a direct contradiction of paragraph 1.

What are you trying to say?

[Macalaure]

You know what makes me doubt the "Lal's the cobbler" theory? She still makes points (however contradictory they may be). Usually, if a cobbler has been identified correctly by a large number of people to the point that the cobbler's no longer listened to, the cobbler gives up on making points and turns to mere bothering instead.

I agree with pretty much all of Nogrod points above. I agree with Mith: Nerwen is creepy, and quite a lot. Rikae's thoughts still have to be summed up, so I'll go at that first.

Sally was her suspicion number two (shared place with Nilp).ahem! :rolleyes: :p

[Lalwendë]

This post is hurting my brain. Paragraph 2 appears to be a direct contradiction of paragraph 1.

What are you trying to say?

Simply that put into a situation where you must choose between members of a wolf pack, voting WoW may have to happen. However, as a long term strategy, it would be suicidal. Therefore I can't get on board with the idea that a wolf would vote for another wolf more than once unless in the most desperate of circumstances - something we only really had once, on day 1.

That's why McCaber and Mac just can't be wolves - they'd have voted WoW more than once and haven't shown the possibility of being wolves in desperate circumstances.

However if you look at Page 4 then we see every likelihood of WoW voting. There is panic, suspicious questions and statements, and a last minute bandwagon traffic jam. There are no alibis you could pull out to defend yourself against what's on that page.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Me Uchiha Madara, me have Mangekyou Sharingan (Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye), me see Rikae, Nogrod, Brinniel, and Shasta and see them Ordos.

Any suggestions where you would like me to cast my eyes next?

I would like to ask the Ranger not to protect me this NIGHT. They won't dare kill me.

[Macalaure]

Rikae's positions are neatly summed up in #306, so I'll go along that list.

Wolvish are (apart from Sally, of course - Rikae deserves some kudos for picking her out correctly from the first day on!) McCaber, Nilp, and Izzy. McCaber now looks more than innocent, and I have a hard time seeing Nilp wolvish. Izzy might be worth a look, but my feeling speaks against her being in a pack with CaptainofDespair and Sally.
In her neutral category, she's also in the Lal-cobbler fraction, though a bit hesitating. Furthermore, there is she who I will not mention and Boro, who's much more innocent-looking now. Nerwen and Mith she is unsure of.
Nogrod, I, and Shasta are innocent to her. On Nogrod I agree, on Shasta I'll trust her for now (not that I would have found him suspicious before).

People who I think need to be inspected are Nerwen, Mith, and Izzy. Most likely the last wolf is in there.


edit: crossed with Nilp... oh!

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

So, here's how it stands.

Innocent:
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nogrod
Shastanis Althreduin

Voted for a Wolf twice:
Macalaure
McCaber

Voted for a Wolf once:
Mithalwen
Isabellkya

Unknown:
Lalwendë
Nerwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
Boromir88

[Boromir88]

Innocent:
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nogrod
Shastanis Althreduin~Nilp
I would watch out for Nogrod, don't think he'd shy away from casting a "crucial" vote for a partner, even if there are other innocent options. The question is would a wolf-Nogrod have done it in the current situation? We still have both gifteds, and 8 innocent with 1 wolf.

He would have to be very bold, very confident, and slightly insane. Also, a if Nogrod was a wolf, he would probably know I would jump on him for any wolf-on-wolf vote. So, until I have a closer look at Nogrod (in a few hours) I'm going to say "don't know."

I said de facto cobbler– meaning that she was causing confusion. I did not say I "felt strongly" she was a cobbler. Don't put words into my mouth, please.~Nerwen
My mistake, Nerwen, by de facto I thought you were saying you reached the conclusion she was the cobbler.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I would watch out for Nogrod, don't think he'd shy away from casting a "crucial" vote for a partner, even if there are other innocent options. (Boro)He is innocent. I have spoken.

I don't think I'll vote for you today, either, cos of Nogrod's 444 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=568144&postcount=444). (Vzv, I take other people's idea far too often this game cos I went into it with a strategic mindset rather than the usual tactical mindset. I intended to win this game mathematically--which has never been done before, I think, without double/multiple lynching--, which makes me lament I lost two of my Sharingan's targets.)

Obviously I will be voting for one of the unknowns, unless the other chappies from the Wolf-voting groups do something *shakes head*. ;)

Ah, well.

++Lalwendë

Might as well know who she really is.

[Nerwen]

I would watch out for Nogrod, don't think he'd shy away from casting a "crucial" vote for a partner, even if there are other innocent options.

Agreed... but did you miss the post where Nilp says he's the Seer, and has dreamed Nogrod innocent?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I still so desperately want to know Boro's role. Now, please remember that I'm sleepy and about to go back to bed (classes canceled for a traditional school holiday brought on by other people's drunken revelry on the president's front lawn), so I don't have numbers or coherence:

Is it such a bad idea to kill him just to find out? Will we be setting ourselves back in a dangerous way? My thoughts were really that he was either the Seer or a Wolf (though cobbler wasn't a bad thought, once I remembered we have one), but I'm still uncomfortable with having him around. He splits too often between feeling fair and foul.

PS, Nilp, I heart you.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Hm, I think I'll look at Boro toNIGHT.

Heh, finally, I get home at a decent hour (8pm) instead of staying up at a computer shop 'til 1am wondering if:

OmniCon will kill me cos I tightrope too well with suspicion


I've said too much and Durelin gets to do a cool death scene the following DAY with me using my bankai and Amaterasu (but ending with my eyes getting plucked out.)
So, g'nite y'all. Much <3 (teehee!)

P.S. RANGER, I'm serious, guard someone else. Like Nog or Mac.

[Mithalwen]

Me Uchiha Madara, me have Mangekyou Sharingan (Kaleidoscope Copy Wheel Eye), me see Rikae, Nogrod, Brinniel, and Shasta and see them Ordos.


I would like to ask the Ranger not to protect me this NIGHT. They won't dare kill me.


I knew!!!! That was the thought I referred to in my first post today but since I didn't do a Shasta style acrostic I can't prove it :D Was very glad to see you still alive .

So now Nerwen is pretty well my top suspect.

[Lalwendë]

I must vote early today because I have to go out and I don't know if I'll get a chance later.

Now, I'm being tempted to vote to lynch someone from one of these vomit-worthy love-ins. Go and get a room! Bleurgh. :p I prefer Boro's style, he's always the Simon Cowell of the game (though I hope he doesn't wear those nasty kex) and I can respect nastiness, because that's what it's all about! Plus it doesn't make me feel sick ;)

Still, nowt will dissuade me from the solid evidence of Page 4. No point voting for Mith today simply because it will be a wasted vote as I can see the way things are going in the love-in. Luckily I have two candidates with overpowering evidence against them so I've still got someone worthwhile to vote for rather than feeling obliged to jump onto some poor soul's bandwagon that's been formed from a shadow and a thought. So I might go for my cobbler candidate.

Nogrod's case for his innocence is well thought out, but there is more convincing evidence on Page 4.

Sorry mate, but you knew it was coming.

++Boro

Hopefully I'll get to check in around deadline. :smokin:

[Boromir88]

Agreed... but did you miss the post where Nilp says he's the Seer, and has dreamed Nogrod innocent?~Nerwen
Whoops...in that case I will take a look at our wolf-slaying efficianados McCaber and Mac. Perhaps they knew too much.

P.S. SEER, I'm serious, don't waste a dream on another ordo.

P.P.S.

I still so desperately want to know Boro's role.~Fea
It's odd how anytime our paths cross, it doesn't matter whether you believe I'm innocent, you just want to lynch me so you know for sure. To which I will say the feeling is mutual. :smokin:

[Boromir88]

Lal, I prefer Simon Cowell's mini-me, Piers Morgan. Would it be an all-time WW record if I voted for Lal again?

[Nogrod]

Okay then... interesting indeed.

Boro's sudden insistence to go after me even if Nilp had kind of shadily revealed himself and given the information. So he wanted to try - until Nilp became more articulate.

And then this: P.S. SEER, I'm serious, don't waste a dream on another ordo.So the seer should indeed do that? And waste the dream on you because you try to look suspicious by doing that?

Boro = the Cobbler.

He's no wolf. And here I'm going to argue against Lalwendë that Sally's vote which raised a fellow-wolf (Boro) alongside to the lead with her other fellow-wolf (CoD) just a few minutes before the deadline on Day1 is just too far-fetched - whatever "evidence" one manages to read from page 4.


Nilp: if - and when - you're the seer I'd suggest Nerwen for your dream. She could be the last wolf and if not she would be of great help to us as a known innocent.

[Boromir88]

Boro = the Cobbler.
Nogrod, I repeat...I am not the cobbler. Wasn't it I who pointed you specifically to Brinniel mentioning you and sally as her two possible wolves. Thus, the wolves killed Brin because they were afraid she was the seer? Wasn't it I who pointed out on Day 2, Sally's strange reactions to CoD's vote? How did I know? Because I've used that exact strategy successful as a wolf, and it was to sally's misfortune that I was in this village.

See Nogrod, instead of looking at the actual "evidence" you just assume that since I said "don't waste a dream on me" I must be the cobbler. Yet, you completely ignore Lalwende who is still harping about the "page 4" evidence, and that's all she's been going on about for over 2 days now. Nogrod, use your noggin.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, use your noggin.I'm trying, all the time... :)

I'm getting that cobblery from your performance this far but I'm ready to change my mind if you continue being that convincing (what you said was either true and noteworthy or a masterful deceit). I'm going to do some re-reading after I get my dinner out of the way. But anyway, I'm very much against lynching you (and also somewhat against the seer "wasting" his dream on you) as we are after the wolf here and I'm pretty much confident you're not a wolf for reasons already stated.

I'm still thinking our best bets for the wolf are from the group: Lal, Fëa & Nerwen, possibly Izzy or Mith but that would require a WoW... which is not generally improbable but in this game I wouldn't count on it too heavily.

[Boromir88]

I'm getting that cobblery from your performance this far but I'm ready to change my mind if you continue being that convincing~Nogrod
I admit to looking cobbler-ish, but I think that's the effect of my different playing style than from a usual Boro. I like variety, changing it up a bit, I get bored if I stay the same static Boro.

Enough talk about that, so to give Fea a clearer answer...I would love to see Lal lynched today, that I hope will clear my name from all the cobbler talk.

Alright, known Innocent...

Nilp
Shasta
Nogrod

That's a nice, healthy list, as if the the lone wolf wants to eliminate known innocents during the night, it will take him/her a couple days.

Who I have no reason to suspect/I feel good about.

Fea
Mith

I'm sorely tempted to call for Fea's lynching, just so I'm absolutely certain, but for now I'll keep her (and Mith) out of the equation.

That leaves -

Mac
McCaber
Izzy
Nerwen
Lalwende

I'm not doing this because I have any desire to lynch Mac or McCaber today, but somebody has to do it and not make the mistake of just assuming they are both innocent (like I did when I was the seer and Nogrod pulled a cover over my eyes) when we really don't know for certain. I will probably vote for Izzy, Nerwen, or Lal today, but I'm going to do a Mac-analysis and Mc-analysis to consider a possilble wolf-on-wolf vote.

[Boromir88]

Starting with the shorter one :p

McCaber

Day 1: He pretty much echoes the feelings of the village. He does say I look innocent, because he doesn't think a wolf would stir that much controversy in the beginning.

Brin seems a little off to me, as does the Captain. Gwath and Mac both look fine by me.
So, he notes CoD feels a little off. And in his other post for the day, he votes for CoD.

I have to go soon, so here's my semirandom vote:

++CaptainofDespair

for cryptic remarks and other general nonsense.

As others have noted, if there was a wolf-on-wolf vote, I think McCaber's looks to be the most likely. It's early enough, it would make a wolf look good, and there wasn't a strong reason (at that time) to believe CoD would be lynched.

Day 2:

Says Gwath looks innocent, and that he certainly talks a lot.

Says he doesn't know what to think about me.

Something possibly interesting:

On my "possibly, nay, probably a werewolf" list goes Nogrod, for an attempt to bandwagon away from a wolf, along with Sally.

Suspects Nogrod and Sally. So, McCaber picks up on CoD and sally, two known wolves...hmm

Yeah, I really don't like the way sally posted yesterDay, what with the "suspicion" of the Captain in quite a lot of posts but her vote trying to lead away from his death. (Old news, I know, but I just woke up. Give me a break.)
Agrees with the reasoning against sally, that her suspect and then defense of CoD looks strange. Later in the post, he said between Gwath and Nogrod, he would rather vote the latter, but believes both of them are innocent just looking for wolves in the wrong places.

Day 2, votes for sally

2 wolves in 2 days. Impressive instincts. Not unlikely, but as Mith would always caution me when we were both wolves, don't make it look like you're completely certain about everything. Plus with the focus on Nogrod and Gwath, perhaps McCaber felt safe about voting for wolf-partner sally, and again it would make him look good.

As another interesting observation, on Day 2 Rikae votes for McCaber.

Day 3:

I still think that the Day 1 voting record is the best to find a wolf. I'm going to take a closer look at those who tried to save the Captain at the last minutes. I know that includes sally, but I'm not sure who else.
Again mentions sally for her attempt to save CoD.

So I'm still convinced that sally is a wolf, but the only other late distracters were Nogrod for Gwath and Boro for Lal. And I'm pretty sure both of them are innocent.

If only sally gave me more to analyze. And I'm still not sure why Lal and Rikae have harped on me as a suspect. I just don't really get their arguments.
Continues to go after sally, if only she "gave me more to analyze." That looks strange, are you trying to find a reason to get out of voting for the wolf sally?

In post 360 he says Nogrod and I are probably innocent. Nerwen, Sally, or Rikae are probably wolves, and Lal is the cobbler.

remarks about Fea's seer revelation:
For some reason I am so tempted to contradict you, but it would serve no purpose. Ah well.
Either Fea is a wolf, or the last wolf didn't believe Fea's seer revelation (or maybe the last wolf thought Fea would get the ranger protection). Anyway, McCaber makes the point that he doesn't really believe Fea.

umm...

++sally

nothing if not consistent.
Ends up being the 2nd vote for sally (puts her in the early lead). Still, a rather safe, early vote. It would make McCaber look good, if sally is lynched, but with all the stir between myself, Mith, and Lal, maybe he thought sally was safe.

And this just doesn't sit right with me, today (from post 451)

So are we finally clear that Mac and Iare innocent? Good.

McCaber comes out and attaches himself to Mac. Both he and Mac voted for wolves twice (McCaber voted for sally two days in a row). But this just seems like he's trying to push the fact that he and Mac are finally "proven" innocent, when really neither of them are.

I'm not liking the look of McCaber, he could have extremely good instincts in this game, but this just looks like he's too certain about everything. Not just who the wolves are but who he thinks are innocent. He felt I was "likely" innocent, he pointed out Gwath and Nogrod going after eachother, but felt both were two innocents looking for wolves in the wrong place.

Now, he comes out and forces the opinion that he's a "known" innocent (and Mac in the process). He's not a known innocent, and I don't like the look of it. I don't know what the wolf strategy was, but maybe with McCaber's style of being more quiet and reserved, plus a good voting record (3 wolves, 3 votes!) this was a strategy to make McCaber look as innocent as possible, and then he could slip into the background.

[Macalaure]

A look at N'Rwen:

Day1: She makes one post pointing into multiple directions and adds some inconclusive things on Gwath. Not her fault she couldn't come back. The one post could come from both baddie and goodie, you can't tell.

Day2: She copies all statements about the Captain into one post. In conclusion, she says Sally is odd (but relativates it, hmm...) and suspects Boro. She goes after Lal a bit and defends Brinn. She doesn't think good of Nogrod and Gwath and takes up a point of mine against Boro and votes him in the end. Apart from the shadiness around Sally, I'm fine with all this, except that she could have tried harder to get support for Boro, which had untapped potential.

Day3: Defends her vote for Boro. Questions the Gwath-voters (which is a neat thing to do if she knew there were no wolves to find in there). #344 doesn't sit right with me at all: She seconds a thing Boro (who later received her vote!) said and makes me, and everyone, give opinions on Lal. Why? Why if you didn't seriously intend to vote for her yourself? This move would make sense if you were trying to see how much support for Lal there was, but first teaming up with Boro and then voting him looks simply wolvish. Of course, if she is a fellow of Sally, why didn't she vote for Lal to save her? Maybe she considered Sally to be a goner and didn't want to get involved in a competing bandwaggon for Lal or Nogrod.

Day4: Defends her vote for Boro (again) and agrees with Nogrod on Boro's innocence now.


I admit that I looked at her in the worst possible light now. But even in a more positive light, pretty this isn't.

[Boromir88]

Triple-posting, I won't have time to look at Mac today, but with the wolves being wrong about Brin (being the seer). I'm going to look into Rikae's post to see if maybe the wolves thought she was the seer (as I made note of Rikae's vote for McCaber on Day 2).

Edit: Mac ruined my first ever attempt at a triple post.

[Nogrod]

Just first impressions before actually looking back to at least some of these three.

Fëa has played her own game bantering with Boro and voting for him the two first Days at least looking like just making it in fun. Changed her vote to Mith yesterDay. Not too involved.

Lal goes around with first the insistence of she being the major target of the wolves and then sticks to her "Page 4" -theory on Mith and Boro. I think I can see the idea she's going after but it seems like a "storm in a glass of water" as we say in Finland. Has voted differently every Day (Brinn, McCaber and Mith).

Nerwen has been very cool and somewhat fallen under the radars of most. Didn't vote on Day1 and has then cast two pretty much throw-away votes for Boro (on Day2 it was a conmplete waste, on Day3 one could see a chance of a late Boro-waggon starting...). Somehow she looks the most suspicious to me but I will have to look closer before making any stronger judgements.


Btw. I'd like to see Shasta to contribute as even if you are not any more infallible than we others are, it would be nice to hear an opinion of which we could believe it was made with no malice behind it. Now you have a chance to raise up to your reputation as the psychic! (yeah, you got it wrong this far with me but now you can use your talent as that disrupting veil has been taken away from your eyes) :)

Also I'd appreciate thoughts by Macalaure and McCaber whom I tend to trust now.

And well anyone!

I'm going to look at Nerwen and if time gives in also the two others topping my list for now.


EDIT: X'd with Boro x2 & Mac - nice to see you are up to this as well. I need to read your points first and then decide in what way to pursue the things as it seems we are doing a lot of same things...

[Isabellkya]

Here is where my head is at, at the moment.

"known" innocent:
Nog
Shasta
Nilp

Looks pretty innocent:
Mac
McCaber

Cobblery:
Boro
Lal
Fea


undecided:
Nerwen
Mith


So my vote will go to one accused of Cobblery, or I don't have a read on.

X'ed with Nog, Boro, Mac.

[Boromir88]

Rikae

Day 1 votes sally.
Day 2 votes McCaber.
Day 3 goes back to sally.

Can't speak for the others (two of whom are high on my own suspicion list at the moment), but it's been easy for me to be consistent because no one seems to agree with me.
Could this be taken by the last wolf that Rikae is a seer trying to get people to listen to her?

I find Rikae's 306 post interesting, she puts herself on the naughty list:
Rikae - Naughty, as always, but not wolfishly or cobblerishly so (unless my right hand doesn't know what my left is doing ).
Could that be taken as a hint that Rikae was someone gifted? She's on the naughty list, but not wolf nor cobbler?

Notes she doesn't like Izzy's way of poking around.
Yep, I don't like the way Izzy hangs around the fringes of things, occasionally "poking" at someone as if in an attempt to see if she can get suspicions flowing that way.
That's one thing that was bugging me
And next post she votes for sally.

Izzy, McCaber, and sally make it on Rikae's wolf list. Rikae votes sally, sally ends up being a wolf. Did either Izzy or McCaber believe Rikae was then the seer?

I don't know if there's enough evidence to drum up against McCaber, but I have to go soon and I got a feeling either him or Izzy is the last wolf. Taking into account I don't like McCaber certainty (or his entire post 451)
And I figure that between the mob killings and the seer dreams we can kill/exonerate the five (or so) SPs (suspicious persons) remaining without much difficulty. I hope it doesn't come to that, though.
Seems a bit hasty to go after the 5 remaining "suspicious people," obviously you're off that list McCaber? I think it is McCaber. And this is so rough, because now is as good of a chance as any to finally get Lal out of the picture....

++McCaber

[Boromir88]

Oh and before I go, if anyone is still doubting my sincerity that I am not the cobbler. Why would I drum up a case against someone who is presumed innocent by everyone (McCaber) when I could try to steer people towards easier targets?

I seriously think McCaber's the last wolf, and it's been attempted to clear his name, slip under the radar. The only person who could counter that would be the seer. Rikae found McCaber and sally suspicious. Rikae ends up dead.

If you don't want to go for McCaber today, Nilp, I say check him out.

edit: bolding the names

[Nogrod]

That was a good one Boro! And now with no smilies added to take a distance from the proposition.

I had not bothered to look back at McCaber as he has felt pretty good lately and his voting record is neat - but I felt quite bad of him the first Days. Now you seem to stir those feelings back.

It really seems looking back at the things that he has been a bit too right - and I can see if you will be upset by this claim if you happen to be an innocent who just got it so right this time McCaber! But that's really a performance a bit too good to be true!

Anyway... I'm not sure I'd wish to lynch him toDay. I mean even if the case looks nice there are probably stronger reasons not to believe it (would McCaber want to be left alone against 10 villagers with seer & ranger around?). But it is good the points on McCaber were made for if he is indeed the wolf he can't now ride with the free ticket of extra-credibility anymore in the end did things go that far...

EDIT: X'd with Boro's latest posts...

[Lalwendë]

Lal, I prefer Simon Cowell's mini-me, Piers Morgan.

He might have better taste in trousers, but he's nowhere near evil enough to match your style ;)

He's no wolf. And here I'm going to argue against Lalwendë that Sally's vote which raised a fellow-wolf (Boro) alongside to the lead with her other fellow-wolf (CoD) just a few minutes before the deadline on Day1 is just too far-fetched - whatever "evidence" one manages to read from page 4.

I agree and Page 4 corroborates this. I think he's the shoemaker, and racing off like Michael Schumacher with it. Sally wouldn't have had a clue who the cobbler was, but I think she thought it was me yesterday because she got reight mardy with me when she was panicking yesterday.

Got to say again, you can be almost certain that the only almost certain innocents are Mac and McCaber due to their voting. Plus no really shady behaviour.

Nobody else is really a safe bet. An OK one maybe. But not evens. Despite trying to be pukey ;)

[Mithalwen]

No stomach of concrete elephant for you clearly ..would you like some brandy....

Don't see what is pukey about loving my son. He is adorable. So leave him alone...

Oh no not page 4 again..... personally I think page 3 has been underrated... :rolleyes: and the half dozen or so subsequent pages...

[Nogrod]

Now which is the heaviest weight in the scales?

Nerwen's under radar "safe play" & last moment throw-away votes?

Lal's monomaniac game which is most impossible to pin down even if it would be a daring strategy from her side?

Fëa's idiosyncratic ways - with an added possibility she was indeed trying to send a message to Boro (whom she thought the cobbler?) via all that banter and votes?

Boro's case on McCaber? Remembering that at least I've not totally thrown off the idea Boro is the cobbler... He was very fast to defend himself after I suspected him openly from cobblery, stating he is now trying a different mode of play! I'm not so sure he's that different now but still he took the chance of underlining his difference as it had been suspected...

Oh my...

My last Day probably so I'd need to try and do something... :confused:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Oh dear, now I'm scared I'll die tonight. :( Thanks for dreaming me, though, Nilp, I don't think I've ever been dreamt by the Seer before. :D

Class! Must dash.

++Nerwen

[Nerwen]

She seconds a thing Boro (who later received her vote!) said and makes me, and everyone, give opinions on Lal. Why? Why if you didn't seriously intend to vote for her yourself? This move would make sense if you were trying to see how much support for Lal there was, but first teaming up with Boro and then voting him looks simply wolvish. Of course, if she is a fellow of Sally, why didn't she vote for Lal to save her? Maybe she considered Sally to be a goner and didn't want to get involved in a competing bandwaggon for Lal or Nogrod.

Mac, I wasn't "teaming up with Boro and then voting him", I was hesitating between him and Lal. The fact that he suspected her just made it harder to decide. Haven't you ever been in that situation yourself?

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod and Shasta.

[Macalaure]

P.S. RANGER, I'm serious, guard someone else. Like Nog or Mac.Nah, don't protect me. Unless Nilp is the cobbler, which I highly doubt, there are now three known innocents. The wolf won't waste his kill on someone who, while regarded innocent by most, is still someone who could get lynched in the end. If you want to gamble, ranger, better choose between Nogrod and Shasta.

I didn't understand it when Rikae went after McCaber and I don't understand it now. Yes, he might be a wolf, but please, let's look for the more obvious choices first. I appreciated it when Boro took a look at him, but voting him based on that is over the top. The idea that Boro is indeed the cobbler is more and more manifesting itself.

Mac, I wasn't "teaming up with Boro and then voting him", I was hesitating between him and Lal. The fact that he suspected her just made it harder to decide. Haven't you ever been in that situation yourself?I have, but it is something that wolves do, too. I'm not saying you are certainly a wolf, but for me right now, you're the most wolvish one around.

[Nogrod]

Thanks for the input Shasta! :rolleyes:
(Yeah, classes are classes and that's it, but you might have found time to contribute something at some moment... maybe?)

My thoughts right now.

Known innocents are going to be the ones to go - every Night now. So I'm a bit reluctant to lynch Nerwen toDay as she would be one known innocent - if not a wolf that is - who might make a difference. So let's leave her to Nilp. I mean if you have people as dedicated as Shasta as known innocents they're of not too much help if they just pop in and vote without reading (sorry mate, but true). And no one can grant Fëa would turn into a dedicated village-saver or Lal would leave her page 4 and look at other possibilities - if either of them were proven innocent. But I know Nerwen could do it.

And she still is one of my top suspects so learning she is a wolf the next Night would just end the game right there. Fine.

EDIT: X'd with Mac

[Macalaure]

Point taken.

[McCaber]

Wow, I did not expect an argument like that, Boro. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am indeed just a very lucky innocent. In fact, up until Nilp's reveal, I was trying to convince the wolves that I was the seer and should be killed.

And Boro is indeed showing remarkable strains of cobblery.

[Isabellkya]

I must go in 5 minutes, after I get my shoes on.

I've gone through Mith's posts until 399 on page 11.

All in all, I don't think there is a whole lot to say about her. She posts a lot, but not much is said. She says her suspicions, but doesn't (as of yet) put in a lot of analyzing towards them. There are a lot of misreads/clearing things up between her and other people.

I don't think I will place my vote with her toDay.

Will get shoes on and debate with my head.
Back shortly to vote.


X'ed with Mac, McCaber, and same time as Nerwen.
To point out - do not take the shoe references as a Cobbler claim/hint. I really do need to get my shoes on, so I can leave for work.

[Nerwen]

Oh yes, I must have skimmed past this:

Izzy, McCaber, and sally make it on Rikae's wolf list. Rikae votes sally, sally ends up being a wolf. Did either Izzy or McCaber believe Rikae was then the seer?

I don't know if there's enough evidence to drum up against McCaber, but I have to go soon and I got a feeling either him or Izzy is the last wolf. Taking into account I don't like McCaber certainty (or his entire post 451)

Seems a bit hasty to go after the 5 remaining "suspicious people," obviously you're off that list McCaber? I think it is McCaber. And this is so rough, because now is as good of a chance as any to finally get Lal out of the picture....

++McCaber

I read your analysis of McCaber, and I just thought it was an honest attempt to cover all bases, but now I see you actually voted him... on awfully thin grounds.

This thing about the wolves thinking Rikae was the Seer, because she mentioned Izzy, McCaber and Sally as guilty– with that premise that Izzy or McCaber is the last wolf– look, at least half the village has mentioned one of the three as a possible wolf at some point.

Had Rikae been the Seer, she couldn't have dreamed both wolves, or she would have told us, wouldn't she? The wolves would know this.

EDIT: X'd since my last post.

[Nogrod]

Izzy!

Check out my #486 and Mac's following one before voting and consider them. You could also look at Nerwen's last one...

If Nerwen is innocent we need her and Nilp can check her the next Night.

We've had enough hasty votes in this game even if everything has turned out well so far. Some mighty providence in the air? ;)

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=Isabellkya;568221]I must go in 5 minutes, after I get my shoes on.

I've gone through Mith's posts until 399 on page 11.

All in all, I don't think there is a whole lot to say about her. She posts a lot, but not much is said. She says her suspicions, but doesn't (as of yet) put in a lot of analyzing towards them. There are a lot of misreads/clearing things up between her and other people.

I don't think I will place my vote with her toDay.
QUOTE]

I don't really do analysis very much (to much of a busman's holiday), I try it sometimes but usually I find instinct more useful and chips n chat poker a more enticince way to spend time... yes that was a confession - I haigh proportion of the times I say I'm off to have a look at something I am really playing a few hands but that is laziness not malice ....

[Macalaure]

Had Rikae been the Seer, she couldn't have dreamed both wolves, or she would have told us, wouldn't she? The wolves would know this.

Exactly. Of course, you could argue if McCaber is a wolf and suspected Rikae to have her knowledge of Sally via a dream, he would have known for sure that he'd be next. But then again, he would have asked himself why she hadn't dreamt of him already (she seriously went after him on Day2, after Sally on Day3) and concluded that Rikae was just smart/lucky. He would have avoided killing her (and hoped she would just find somebody else to go after) to not frame himself.

[Nogrod]

To me it would be then either Fëa or Lal. If I'd have to vote right now I would go for Fëa as Lal's style of play would be a bit risky.

[Mithalwen]

Only thing is that Lal is being so cobblerish that it is hard to think anyone else could be.

Part of me says Boro is just like that but I would mind being fooled by him more than most people, Fea is another. Trouble is both are the sort of players who can get a bit bored if they don't have a special role and like to amuse themselves if deprived of official significance.

[Mithalwen]

Ok folks not much more than 20 mins left by Downs Time. Does anyone have a vote tally already?

[Nogrod]

Trouble is both are the sort of players who can get a bit bored if they don't have a special role and like to amuse themselves if deprived of official significance.That is true as well... now why did you remind me of that Mith? :rolleyes: I mean thanks, but there goes the confidence as you're right in this...

[Isabellkya]

Well, I suppose I'll not vote for Nerwen and leave her in Nilp's hands.

Boro seems a throw a way vote to me, same for Lal since they are both so darn Cobblery.

Which leaves me with..

++Fea

X'ed since 494

[McCaber]

Nilp -> Lal
Lal -> Boro
Boro -> McCaber
Shasta -> Nerwen
Izzy -> Fea

[Macalaure]

Where am I?

Nerwen I suspect but won't vote for the reasons Nogrod gave above.
Fea I highly doubt is the wolf because of her (presumably) fake reveal. Cobbler maybe.
Boro is unlikely to be a wolf - again, possible cobbler.
Nilp is the seer (unless he's the cobbler).
Nogrod is proven innocent (").
McCaber I don't suspect.
Shasta is proven innocent (").
Mith might be a wolf, but I'd like to take a closer look tomorrow.
Izzy I'm not sure about. I'd like to take a closer look at her, too, before I'd want to vote for her.
Lal I have a hard time imagining as a wolf. Another possible cobbler.

May I abstain? :D :rolleyes: