Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Diamond18]

Welcome to the “Lonely Hearts Club” seventh annual month-long romantic getaway. Twenty lucky singles have traveled to a remote island resort hotel, orchestrated by an online dating service. Looking for love and hoping to leave the resort with a new special someone, little do they realize that they will soon be hoping to leave with their lives.

For on the first night, the secluded lover’s paradise is witness to a murder. Young Diamond, one of the lovely but lonely ladies of the club, is murdered in her bed. No one is coming back to check on the Lonely Hearts for a month, and soon suspicions turn to accusations and vigilante-style justice. But justice is blind, and will the Lonely Hearts survive until they can escape?!??!?

Beware -- the truth of what is happening is shrouded in mystery. You cannot know how many among you are murderous, or who among you are there to help and protect. You must search for clues among each night’s happenings.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Lommy
Aganzir
Legate
Kitanna
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Rikae
Mac
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eönwë
Lalaith
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)

Some basic rules: No modfire. No retractable votes. First one to reach the majority in a tie, dies.

[Aganzir]

Err this has begun, right?

Poor Diamond! She was so sweet and pretty and all.

Hey darlings, time to stop snogging and talk. I'll be here for a while but I don't really bother to post anything proper as long as I'm the only one talking. Is there anybody else around?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sticking my head in- I won't be properly around until after lunch (it's 7:44am just now)... but I am here.

[Aganzir]

Hmm of course I could analyse my own posts.

Agan's a baddie cause she was the first one to talk and says she's sorry for Di's death. I suggest lynching her.

Or then let's lynch Gwath. He's always a good choice.

In truth Agan and Gwath are lovers and Agan's just trying to double bluff since no one's going to take these first few posts seriously anyway.
Now she said it aloud so it's a triple bluff.

The sex ratio here on our pretty little island should be 9/10 (hey Gollum are you male or female?). In case Di has decided to play it chaste and hasn't paired up people of the same sex, we can systematically execute members of one sex in order to kill the lovers effectively.

edit: ooh xed with Fea

[Macalaure]

I agree with Aganzir: we should lynch Aganzir today.


Well, since Di hasn't informed us about any significant changes in the rules, I guess the basics are the same: four couples of lovers, each equipped with the ability to kill at night. There is once again going to be ridiculous slaughter during the first nights and everyone who makes it til day3 can consider himself lucky.

The one lynch we poor little lonely hearts have looks quite pitiful compared with the four kills a night our evildoers have. The good thing is that the were-creatures and their lovers seek to kill each other at least as much as they seek to kill innocents. Each couple is more likely to be killed by another couple than by us! They're each other's worst enemy.

Eventually, it will come down to a situation of one were-couple against a few innocents. We're unlikely to have contributed much to the deaths of the others, but at that point, the outcome is in our hands again. In fact, as hopeless and kill-outnumbered as we are now, our chances then will be rather good, with two possible targets.

However this ends, it is going to be interesting. :)


Oh, and in the first part, same-sex couple were allowed, so I would suppose it's the same this time.

[Aganzir]

Mac you're evil, you weren't allowed to say so! It's a privilege reserved to me. I'll remove your name instantly from my top 18 list. :(

Hmm if they are allowed (Di! How immoral of you!) then my little plan doesn't work. Gah.

I think Mac is a baddie because he just talks about game dynamics which is a good way to appear helpful without really being it. Besides he's trying to dishearten us by saying that we're unlikely to contribute much to the deaths of the were-creatures. He could for example accuse people instead!

[Macalaure]

He could for example accuse people instead!

we should lynch Aganzir today.

Hmmm?

You in turn seem to be quite over-eager to accuse, my dear. ;)


By the way, I think it's quite sensible to discuss game dynamics when you haven't even reached post 10 yet. I daresay it's more helpful than just bantering - though maybe not as funny, I admit.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I was under the impression that we're not allowed to know the particulars of roles at all.

Beware -- the truth of what is happening is shrouded in mystery. You cannot know how many among you are murderous, or who among you are there to help and protect. You must search for clues among each night’s happenings.

Ie: we may or may not have a bazillion wolves, we could all, in fact, be wolves, maybe secretly nobody is? We're all for ourselves? This is just me exaggerating, but the point it: we don't actually know how many bad guys are amongst us.

This reminds me of the game I ran when both my wolves were dead in the first day or so and I didn't want to end so I just didn't bother revealing roles and let the village kill itself. Last man standing won (Saucie). Di, I merely assume roles will be revealed upon death?

[Aganzir]

You in turn seem to be quite over-eager to accuse, my dear. ;)
Yesss. I love blood.
And your agreeing we should lynch me wasn't an accusation - it was a nasty joke which made me very sad. *sniff*

By the way, I think it's quite sensible to discuss game dynamics when you haven't even reached post 10 yet.
Me too. I was just trying to come up with a reason to accuse you. You know, everything can be used against you and such. Maybe you're just a were-creature trying to be sensible. ;)

I was under the impression that we're not allowed to know the particulars of roles at all.
Oops, I should probably have read the narration a bit more closely. From now on I promise to be nice and read everything well.

Anyway I'm off to do something else now, see you later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And as it looks, post 10 won't come yet for a long while (EDIT: okay, x-ed, now it doesn't fit that much anymore). To say something serious, in contrary to most things which have been told here: I agree that speaking about game dynamics is nothing bad, at least to me, Mac's post helped to kind of sort my thoughts. But then, I think not much further discussion on that topic is needed. So, let's try not to make it the main topic from now on.

Now to say something even more serious: bxcblamsxfrt.

Okay, that'd be it from me now. Let's see if anybody else shows up. Hopefully they will.

...
P.S. Especially for some people, just a preventive note: no, we are not.

[Macalaure]

And your agreeing we should lynch me wasn't an accusation - it was a nasty joke which made me very sad. *sniff*
Aww... *hands Aganzir a tissue* *hug*

Friends? :D

Oops, I should probably have read the narration a bit more closely.

Me, too. :o


And Legate is sending secret messages and using a strange language in his post. Veeery suspicious.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No, no, let me make this clear. First, this is no secret language. It is a part of common education to know it. Second, these are no secret messages. You may as well ignore that.

Now, to say something constructive: a crane.

No, please, people, come and post. The fact that this far, just five people showed up, and one of them is dead, has probably bad impact on me.

[satansaloser2005]

And as it looks, post 10 won't come yet for a long while (EDIT: okay, x-ed, now it doesn't fit that much anymore). To say something serious, in contrary to most things which have been told here: I agree that speaking about game dynamics is nothing bad, at least to me, Mac's post helped to kind of sort my thoughts. But then, I think not much further discussion on that topic is needed. So, let's try not to make it the main topic from now on.

Now to say something even more serious: bxcblamsxfrt.

Okay, that'd be it from me now. Let's see if anybody else shows up. Hopefully they will.

...
P.S. Especially for some people, just a preventive note: no, we are not.


Yeah, like that makes any sense. He's just trying to confuse us. Let's kill him. ;)



All in all, it seems rather quiet(ish). Sorry I wasn't around first thing this Morning but I decided to crash early and then I didn't get up at like 4am like I planned. (That's right. 4am. To play Werewolf. Gah, I'm a strange little one.)


I think I'll pop out to class and hope it's a bit louder when I return. Either way, I'll post something more then.


EDIT: x'd with Legate. Sweetie, are you sick? Because you aren't making a lick of sense. :p

[Kitanna]

No, please, people, come and post. The fact that this far, just five people showed up, and one of them is dead, has probably bad impact on me.
It is rather quiet isn't it? I was hoping to wake up and find a whole slew of posts waiting for me.

The only thing that jumped out at me was Agan and Mac's back and forth, but simply because it amused me. Other than that there's nothing to really comment on. I'll return after class and hopefully have a decent post to put up.

[Eönwë]

Strange.

I woke up and went on here, but no-one posted, so I thought that maybe we weren't meant to post.

Anyway, here I am, and it seems a very quiet first day.


I think this game is quite to different to many others in that the wolves want each other dead just as much as we want them dead. Or have I read the rules wrongly?

[Eönwë]

This really is a quiet Day!

Seems I have the whole thread to myself *Mwah ha ha ha ha* er...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No way, sir. I am here now, too. But yes, you got it right - in fact, the werelovers should wish the other werelovers dead more than us, just because they can cause them more harm than the ordos do (not just lynching, but also killing during the Night). And, seemingly, only one pair can win. So werelover wereloveri lupus. ( :rolleyes: ) Although it's a matter of tactics, we surely are not to rely on it.

[Thinlómien]

The people who accused me based on my Day1 behaviour in last game should now be after Aganzir.

Whatever the changed rules are, I guess we can assume there are lovers. So obviously, we should look out for pairs. And looking out for fishy behaviour is always a good thing. I think that's a good starting kit. (Starting Kit hahahaha. :D Okay, sorry. :D)

No, no, let me make this clear. First, this is no secret language. It is a part of common education to know it.Yes, Mac - it was obviously Czech: that language only consists of consonants, you know. ;)

I wonder if I should be worried - this must be the shortest starting post ever on my whole wwing career (possibly discounting my first few games)...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm here, but it seems I haven't missed much.

Am I right in suspecting we won't know anything of cite-worthy value until Tomorrow? Because right now we don't know anything at all:

We know our own roles. Depending on what information Di's messages contained, we might know several roles. For instance, it's a fair assumption that there are Lovers, since this is a Lovers game. Also there will be ordinary villagers. There are an equivalent number of Lovers to bad guys? Maybe? Well, at the very least, there are bad guys as well as lovers, we just don't know how many.

1) # Lovers

2) # Ordos

3) # Baddies

What other roles?

I would expect a seer-type character, and the last game had a ranger sort of fellow...

Will Di have cobblers, do you think? Or is that sort of what lovers are anyway?

I know this isn't a particularly helpful post in that it's a post which concentrates on game dynamics, blah blah blah

-however I think it's necessary to put together as much information as we can in one clear place.

Because we know what Di did before and we know that this game resembles the old one, but that it's changed in unmentioned ways.

Consequently... we don't know anything. Literally, we know only our own roles. Not just in terms of we don't know who fills the other roles, but we don't know what roles they actually are to be filled.

I'm concerned because I don't know what magic powers exist in this um... sketchy motel...

[Nogrod]

I looked back at the previous installment of this game. There were five deaths on the first gameNight: watcher, one pair of lovers and two ordos. So about 1/4th of the village was wiped out in a single Night.

Now that might be called a carnage. :eek:

But even if our effectivness in the killing-business is somewhat meager we should remember that if we hit it right we'll get two with the effort used for one. So let's show some brave faces around there. :)


I'm a bit confused about the discussion about the silentness of this village this far as the sleepiest hours - the sleepiest half of any Day in any ww-game have just taken place. The game normally starts to get active from something like an hour or two from now on.

But what little there is as yet I must say this is one of the weirdest beginnings of a game I've seen. I mean when enough people have seen enough Day1's they try to adjust - and what sometime ago was kind of honest trying or joking has now become meta-trying or meta-joking... It sure adds to the complexity of the game. Like we needed that challenge on top of all the other challenges! :p

EDIT: x'd with Fea

[Aganzir]

P.S. Especially for some people, just a preventive note: no, we are not.
How wolfish! You try to defend yourself before anyone has even accused you.

Aww... *hands Aganzir a tissue* *hug*

Friends?
Okay if I can lynch you then.

Legate is a cobbler as always. He says something unnecessary and claims it's serious, and then he tells us no further discussion on the topic is needed. He just tries to confuse us.

The people who accused me based on my Day1 behaviour in last game should now be after Aganzir.
Ah but isn't it a good thing if people are after me here? That's the whole point of this trip. ;)
But, you know, the thing is that you and me are different. You're so boring and serious while I can be a bit crazy at times. :p I can understand if you have grudges about the last game but you should know better than to hint vaguely that people should suspect me because I remind you about some wolf performance of yours. I think that's a bad way to start your first post and I promise to keep my big nasty eye on you.

Yes, Mac - it was obviously Czech: that language only consists of consonants, you know.
HA you and Legate are lovers and you're trying to defend him! And you're even a bad liar since there was one vocal!

What about lynching either Lommy or Legate today just to be on the safe side? ;)

edit: xed with Fea and Nog

[Thinlómien]

I'm a bit confused about the discussion about the silentness of this village this far as the sleepiest hours - the sleepiest half of any Day in any ww-game have just taken place. The game normally starts to get active from something like an hour or two from now on.Hey, that's an interesting point. I think it's simply that the deadline is so different that it kind of twists the picture...

edit: xed with Agan

[Thinlómien]

Can we lynch Agan just because she's fussing around? :p;):D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But I do feel moved to note that there are no "Werewolves."

I feel like I'm in a twisted torture chamber constructed by... myself.

How delightfully maddening.

[Rikae]

Well, I came here to find a man, and I still aim to do so - I can work it in around WW hunting, after all. I'm going to be 30 soon, and I'm unmarried! Horrors!
(Don't modkill me, Di, I'm not roleplaying :p)

Macalaure is evil. I think this for three reasons:

1) He pops in early on day 1 bursting with overconfidence that he knows exactly how this game will go down - ie, just like the last. It's not that he's discussing game dynamics - it's the fact that what he's saying could only possibly be useful to confuse ordos and throw other baddies off his trail. I'm fairly sure this game will have some new twist thrown in, myself.

2) Di wouldn't make both Mac and I ordos. Ergo, he has a role, and, judging by point #1, that role is an evil one.
I realize this point doesn't do anyone any good until I'm dead, but that shouldn't take long when Mac is evil.

3) After the last game, I swore to do my utmost to get him lynched on day one.

Now, as for you other folks - Lommy looks a bit self-conscious. There are too many women in this village. Legate's multilingualism is charming, but Eönwë's confusion is just too cute (if it looks a little feigned...) :Merisu:

At any rate, if we really do have the high numbers of baddies we did last time, our chances of lynching one are high - and if they are lovers, we'll get two for one. Don't lose heart!

And, Aganzir, I agree on the gender thing - we should lynch all the females in alphabetical order. :D

Edit: X'd with Fea, Nog, Agan, Lommy, Lommy, Fea.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, Mac - it was obviously Czech: that language only consists of consonants, you know. ;)

Hey! That's not true. There was one A in the word.

Okay, now something more constructive (and no, it won't be "two cranes" this time). This far, I could state my opinions on people this way:

Aganzir - as much as she can look innocent when she's a Wolf, she does not look exactly like that now - she looks a bit different. What does it mean? She could be a Werelover.

Mac - joins the general joking around, but does not forget to put a quite lengthy helpful summarisation of our situation (with putting the emphasis on "our" as innocents). That might be a preventive behavior by which he is trying to prove that he is "normal", even though he is a Werelover actually.

Fea is a bit saying something of a value, and a bit not, but this far hard to say anything concrete.

Sally is being a bit silly, but seeming relatively normal.

Kit is hardly saying anything, could be wishing to slip under the radar.

Eönwë is hardly saying anything, but maybe that's normal.

Lommy's post is a bit unusually-seeming at the beginning, but normally lommiish-seeming in the end, so who knows.

Looking forward to see more.

(and I am x-ing since Lommy's first post, the one I quote, but I am not going to prolongate this anymore by refreshing and reacting even to something which may have been posted meanwhile...)

[Groin Redbeard]

Can we lynch Agan just because she's fussing around?

Sounds fair enough. I promised that I'd lynch her if I ever played with her again. :D

EDIT: X'ed with Legate & Rikae

[Thinlómien]

Aganzir - as much as she can look innocent when she's a Wolf, she does not look exactly like that now - she looks a bit different. What does it mean? She could be a Werelover.I think she looks rather innocent. But I wouldn't bet on it.

By the way, this village is rather crazy. No one is taking this seriously... I wonder if I should be amused or worried. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Sounds fair enough. I promised that I'd lynch her if I ever played with her again.

EDIT: X'ed with Legate & Rikae


I'm up for it too. ;)


Is Lommie crazier than usual? Or is it just me? (Just saying)


Alternatively, Legate has a nice little organized list. Very nice. Too nice mehbe?


And yes, Rikae. Mac is evil. He's always evil, darling. :p


I'm fairly optimistic about toDay actually. Like a couple others have said, our chances of finding a baddie aren't too shabby. And two for the price of one always makes me happy. :)

The problem is that once night hits a big chunk of this village is going the way of the dodo, so we best hope to indeed get baddie(s) today so they can't kill off so many in the Night.



Sorry to be so brief, catching up on some homework that I spaced off. Back hopefully soon.

[Macalaure]

Okay if I can lynch you then.
Shall we try to lynch each other? ;)

Macalaure is evil.
Oh no, my dear. ;)

He pops in early on day 1 bursting with overconfidence
If you look back on my past wolf appearances, you will see that the bursting and overconfident wolves usually ended up as very early roadkill. Why should I play like that if I was evil?

Di wouldn't make both Mac and I ordos.
Last time she semi-randomized the roles, so it might actually be possible we're on the same side at last. Otherwise, since I know I'm innocent, you're evil, which would mean that I would have to try to get you lynched, which I rather wouldn't.

After the last game, I swore to do my utmost to get him lynched on day one.
That's only fair, I admit. :D


I'm sensing some very bad karma from the directions of Lommy and Legate. I don't mean that they're a couple themselves, but they both feel like they have ill intentions, independently from one another. I can't put my finger on it, though.

Fea is innocent, says I.

[Groin Redbeard]

Alternatively, Legate has a nice little organized list. Very nice. Too nice mehbe?
On the contrary, on the last game Legate was a wolf and his attitude now is different from his wolvish attitude. Before he would just pop in and give his analysis of people, in the hopes of creating confusion I'm assuming, and would only enter into disscussion with the players if he was accused. Now he is actually entering into the disscussion. But if I'm wrong...:rolleyes:

[Groin Redbeard]

As for Lommy being in a silly mood I think that is normal for her to have.

[Thinlómien]

If Mac is aknowledging that Rikae is attacking him just as a joke, why does he bother to defend himself? Is he a bit jumpy maybe?

edit: xed with Groin - :D

[Aganzir]

-however I think it's necessary to put together as much information as we can in one clear place.
Why?
What does it really matter whether we know what roles there are or not? Well if we want to talk about something which doesn't reveal much about a person's alignment (except for a possible yet unlikely slip), okay. I suppose it's a way to get the discussion rolling, too, but... I don't like it. I do it occasionally anyway. Still, it's a way to talk much without really saying anything.

Can we lynch Agan just because she's fussing around?
How dare you suggest that my love?

And, Aganzir, I agree on the gender thing - we should lynch all the females in alphabetical order. :D
Or what about lynching first those who have posted the least?

Aganzir - as much as she can look innocent when she's a Wolf, she does not look exactly like that now - she looks a bit different. What does it mean? She could be a Werelover.
It means that you have dirt on your glasses.

I really don't have proper opinions about anyone yet - mostly it's just that I haven't seen anyone who looks innocent. Argh I should do some thinking but I feel more like posting nonsense.

edit: xed since sally

[Rikae]

If you look back on my past wolf appearances, you will see that the bursting and overconfident wolves usually ended up as very early roadkill. Why should I play like that if I was evil?
Ah, but if you played a cautious wolf, someone might note that that is exactly the strategy that always worked for you before. At least, this way, you have the above excuse ready-made. ;)

Otherwise, since I know I'm innocent, you're evil, which would mean that I would have to try to get you lynched, which I rather wouldn't.
Is that flattery, or a threat? Either way...

I'm sensing some very bad karma from the directions of Lommy and Legate. I don't mean that they're a couple themselves, but they both feel like they have ill intentions, independently from one another. I can't put my finger on it, though.

Stirring the pot? I can see what you mean in Lommy's case, but vague suspicions aren't worth much, are they (until everyone starts echoing them, and, before you know it, you have a pointless, useless bandwagon on your hands which isn't even helpful after the fact for finding baddies... :rolleyes:).

EDIT: X'd with Groin, Lommy & Agan

[Rikae]

If Mac is aknowledging that Rikae is attacking him just as a joke, why does he bother to defend himself? Is he a bit jumpy maybe?


For the record, just because I add a joke to something, doesn't mean I'm entirely joking.
Now, does Mac know that? Is he being jumpy? It's possible, I suppose.

[Thinlómien]

I really don't have proper opinions about anyone yet - mostly it's just that I haven't seen anyone who looks innocent. Argh I should do some thinking but I feel more like posting nonsense.Would you like to trade situation with me? I haven't seen anyone who looks suspicious... :rolleyes: ("Particularly suspicious, would be a better phrasing, though.)

What does it really matter whether we know what roles there are or not? Well if we want to talk about something which doesn't reveal much about a person's alignment (except for a possible yet unlikely slip), okay. I suppose it's a way to get the discussion rolling, too, but... I don't like it. I do it occasionally anyway. Still, it's a way to talk much without really saying anything.While I agree that rule-talk can lead to talking much without revaling your own alignment, it's not a bad thing to know the rules. It's easier to get rid of someone when you know what you're looking for. It doesn't matter so much now, but on say Day4 it would be nice to know how big a percent of the fellow villagers are your enemies and how many are not.

How dare you suggest that my love?Easily. ;) By the way, I find it mightily amusing, that in this game everybody is calling each other "dear", "darling" or "love". Makes me paranoid. :D


edit: xed with Rikaex2

[Thinlómien]

For the record, just because I add a joke to something, doesn't mean I'm entirely joking.I thought you were... I thought that your third point was there kind of just turn the setting around and announce you're accusing him just because of principle, not because you really suspect him.

[Aganzir]

I don't know if it's because reasons to suspect somebody are always so fabricated this early in the day, but sally doesn't look innocent. A post full of nice little rhetorical questions: Is Lommie crazier than usual? Legate has a nice little organized list. Very nice. Too nice mehbe? Vague things that are intended to make people feel bad about someone.

Yes I'm fine with trying to lynch you Mac, unless I come up with someone better. :p

If you look back on my past wolf appearances, you will see that the bursting and overconfident wolves usually ended up as very early roadkill. Why should I play like that if I was evil?
Because of getting to say this. Some people just can't get enough of risks. That's a bad defense really.

And Rikae and Mac, it's not that black-and-white. Who knows if one of you is an ordo and the other a gifted? ;) Mac's response to Rikae looks a bit like, I don't know, wolfish (I am going to use this word despite there being no werewolves, period).
Last time she semi-randomized the roles, so it might actually be possible we're on the same side at last. Otherwise, since I know I'm innocent, you're evil, which would mean that I would have to try to get you lynched, which I rather wouldn't.
I can't put my finger on it really. Dunno. Mac just seems to be too quick to forget the gifted factor, like a wolf trying to think like an innocent but not wholly succeeding. Does anybody understand what I mean?
And no, it doesn't really matter whether I speculate about gifteds at the beginning of day 1 - especially as we don't even know for certain if there are any. If someone has something against it, lynch me, that's the only way to get me to shut up.

edit: xed with Rikae and two Lommys
edit2: typo

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What does it really matter whether we know what roles there are or not? Well if we want to talk about something which doesn't reveal much about a person's alignment (except for a possible yet unlikely slip), okay. I suppose it's a way to get the discussion rolling, too, but... I don't like it. I do it occasionally anyway. Still, it's a way to talk much without really saying anything.

Imagine you're writing a research paper about potential cures for adrenoleukodistrophy. Don't you want your readers to know what ALD is? So before you start explaining how introduction of certain lipids can slow the deterioration of the myelin sheath, you should probably include a brief definition of ALD and how lipids have anything to do with it. You can't just assume your audience knows what you're talking about: so before you get to the point, you make sure everybody's got a bit of foundational knowledge.

It's like trying to get people to read before teaching them the alphabet.

If you want anybody to be able to follow what you're saying, you need a valid starting point. Attempting to create a solid start point (trying to figure out what roles exist) makes it a lot easier to follow when you start positing theories. I mean, how can you suspect people when you don't even know the crime?

[Aganzir]

Would you like to trade situation with me? I haven't seen anyone who looks suspicious... :rolleyes: ("Particularly suspicious, would be a better phrasing, though.)
No.

While I agree that rule-talk can lead to talking much without revaling your own alignment, it's not a bad thing to know the rules. It's easier to get rid of someone when you know what you're looking for. It doesn't matter so much now, but on say Day4 it would be nice to know how big a percent of the fellow villagers are your enemies and how many are not.
But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
What was the actual point of your response?

Easily. ;) By the way, I find it mightily amusing, that in this game everybody is calling each other "dear", "darling" or "love". Makes me paranoid. :D
Well since we're all looking for a partner or two, it should be normal.

edit: xed with Fea

[Thinlómien]

And Rikae and Mac, it's not that black-and-white. Who knows if one of you is an ordo and the other a gifted? ;) Mac's response to Rikae looks a bit like, I don't know, wolfish (I am going to use this word despite there being no werewolves, period).

I can't put my finger on it really. Dunno. Mac just seems to be too quick to forget the gifted factor, like a wolf trying to think like an innocent but not wholly succeeding. Does naybody understand what I mean?I understand, and I agree to an extent. Like, I can understand why you say that but I'm not sure if Mac really strikes me as suspicious.

And no, it doesn't really matter whether I speculate about gifteds at the beginning of day 1 - especially as we don't even know for certain if there are any. If someone has something against it, lynch me, that's the only way to get me to shut up.Quite a jumpy statement.


edit: xed with Agan

[Groin Redbeard]

Okay I have to be leaving soon so I'll give you my analysis so far.

Legate: Back to his usual self: giving good analysis and entering in the disscussion to help stimulate a chance of catching a real wolf.

Lommy: Silly.:p:D

Aganzir: Trying to sound like she's helping everyone by posting and showing that she's here. Her posts are somewhat helpful, but they're mostly full of petty arguments on the best way to capture a wolf (something along those lines).

Rikae: No clue yet, seems intent on getting Mac lynched.

That's it, I'll be back later.:)

EDIT: Xed 2Aganzir, 1Fea, 2Lommy

[Rikae]

Hmm...
just wanted to add, "jumpiness" is a very easy accusation to use against Mac, since he tends to respond that way regardless of his role. Not saying he's not suspicious, but since we almost certainly have baddies going after each other in this game...

Agan -
First, sure, let's lynch the quiet ones - I'm fine with that (but it's it Noggie's job to bring that up?)
Second - Sally's rhetorical questions aren't very helpful (I mean, seriously, who's going to suspect Legate for having a "nice little list"?), but seem to be something she uses fairly often, baddie or innocent.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since Fea, who makes me wonder if she's ever read a scholarly article on literary theory. ;)

[Thinlómien]

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
What was the actual point of your response?
Well, we don't get to know the rules, but surely we are not in total darkness even now. We know there are lovers. We know there are no werewolves as such. It's almost safe to assume that we have some gifted. So there is stuff to discuss. (But we have done quite a lot of that already, yes, and I'm not implying we should do more of it.) And besides, you didn't ask "what does it matter if we talk about the roles" but "what does it matter whether we know them or not", and there's a big difference.


edit: xed with Groin and Rikae

[Rikae]

We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...

EDIT: X'd with Lommy.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

It goes along with the phantom's theory of lists: only ordinary villagers can create suspicion lists without motive. A bad guy creating a suspicion list must by definition use the list to cast suspicion intentionally. By the same principle, a bad guy creating hypothetical constructions of game roles can't possible hurt us while it can very easily give us information.

Ergo, anybody denying the validity of creating hypothetical lists either doesn't understand the significance of seeking motive, or doesn't want to have to construct posts which look more innocent than they are.

[Brinniel]

Okay, in an attempt to get the game straight...

We have an unknown amount of lovers, but after the Night phase we will have a somewhat idea of how many there are. Then again, how will we know if a player's been successfully protected by the ranger? Or what happens if two pairs of lovers choose the same kill...will only that player die or will one pair get to pick again? Also, if one pair of lovers kills the another pair, does the doomed pair still get to kill?

The rules here are rather vague, and it seems as usual I'm confused... :rolleyes:

The idea that each pair gets a separate kill is a bit scary...the Nights could end up as quite a slaughter. Then again, the fact that the lovers go down together means that we only have to kill half of how many baddies there are out there...which I suppose evens things up a bit.

Btw, the Day might've started out quiet, but now it's so active I'm having trouble keeping up with everyone. :D

EDIT: X-ed with a gazillion posts...

[Rikae]

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

An excellent point - shame you had to mention it.

[Aganzir]

If you want anybody to be able to follow what you're saying, you need a valid starting point. Attempting to create a solid start point (trying to figure out what roles exist) makes it a lot easier to follow when you start positing theories. I mean, how can you suspect people when you don't even know the crime?
There are lovers who kill, that much should be clear although Di hasn't dold anything, and in my opinion that's all we need to know. How does speculating about what roles there might or might not be help to make a valid starting point? Do you want to make a dozen different theories about what roles there are, and then a few theories about how different players would fit in those roles?

Quite a jumpy statement.
Why?

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...
It came from my head and the point is that there might be anything and we wouldn't get to know it so why speculate at all.

edit: xed since Fea

[Brinniel]

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
Am I wrong to assume that this game is supposed to go something similar to Di's last game, and in that game weren't there multiple lovers working in pairs? Or perhaps we should completely throw that last game out the window and assume that anything is possible?

[Thinlómien]

Okay, Brinn, in an attempt to get this game straight ;) I will answer your questions and tell what I think...

Then again, how will we know if a player's been successfully protected by the ranger?In a vast majority of the ww games I've played in, the succesfull protection can be read in the narration.

Or what happens if two pairs of lovers choose the same kill...will only that player die or will one pair get to pick again? It would make far more sense to me that only the one person would die. I mean, why would one pair get another chance then? And how would it be determined which one will get the new kill? The ones who submitted their kill later? What if tha players are not around to give a new name? Too complicated, I say.

Also, if one pair of lovers kills the another pair, does the doomed pair still get to kill?I would assume that they would.


edit: xed with Rikae, Agan and Brinn

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm fairly optimistic about toDay actually. Like a couple others have said, our chances of finding a baddie aren't too shabby. And two for the price of one always makes me happy. :)

But the worse it would be if we did not manage to lynch any. So, let's beware!

On the contrary, on the last game Legate was a wolf and his attitude now is different from his wolvish attitude. Before he would just pop in and give his analysis of people, in the hopes of creating confusion I'm assuming, and would only enter into disscussion with the players if he was accused. Now he is actually entering into the disscussion. But if I'm wrong...:rolleyes:

One note, Groin. In the last game, I was a Wolf only on Day 3. Before that, I was completely innocent.

Why?
What does it really matter whether we know what roles there are or not? Well if we want to talk about something which doesn't reveal much about a person's alignment (except for a possible yet unlikely slip), okay. I suppose it's a way to get the discussion rolling, too, but... I don't like it. I do it occasionally anyway. Still, it's a way to talk much without really saying anything.
I don't think so. If there are any Gifteds, that would be a big bonus, and an important thing to know. Because otherwise, we may lynch "weird" people who are behaving unusually just because they are Gifted.

EDIT: Oh my, x-ed since somewhere on the previous page.

[Rikae]

:mad:
:p
:D

Yellow light means -go very, very fast.

Methinks Aganzir, Macalaure, and Lommy are all baddies of some sort. I have a pesky 'lil paper to write on Machiavelli (who is a cobbler), ya know, so I'm going to have to skedaddle for a bit, gosh darnit, but if I keep talking like this, well, heck, somebody might make me vice president.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

An excellent point - shame you had to mention it.

Being truthful doesn't make the strategy any less effective.

If we let people be silent by agreeing that there's nothing worth discussing, we have nothing to go on. If we force discussion about a specific topic, we force what will essentially be a series of lies from people who know more than everybody else about what's going on. The more lies a person is forced to tell, the easier it is to pick out inconsistencies, as well as it being easier to glean knowledge we probably wouldn't otherwise have. Plus creative thought spawns creative thought.

Ergo, my suspicion is:

There are no werewolves, but there are presumably bad guys who exist as metaphorical werewolves as we know them. There are lovers for at least a portion of the bad guys. The bad guys may or may not (as Agan pointed out) work with both each other and their lovers: so there may be a tangled web of non-ordos with victory in mind, trying to kill everybody but themselves by manipulating others. Does that make sense? I think it does, but I'm not sure.

In that hypothetical situation, say there are like four wolves, all of whom can work together. And we know there's at least one lover, because this is a lovers game. So of those wolves, in this situation, one of them is working with the wolves to kill all of the ordos except for the lover. So in this case, as I see it, the lover-wolf would have to be careful not to reveal which ordo is the lover, because the wolves don't want them to win any more than they want the ordos to. My god this is complicated.

Okay so, so far if we go with Agan's theory that there's a creature team as well as individual sets of lovers, than the bad guys should be even more crippling to each other because they'd have to work together while trying not to. I wish I could be a fly on the wall for those PM sessions if that's a reality. Can you imagine?

Agan, just questioning: was there something you read that made you suspect there might be both a 'wolf' team as well as individual lovers? Was that something that happened in the last game?

[Thinlómien]

Why?You take the defensive mode rather quickly. Why would anyone want to lynch you just because you speculate a little about gifteds in the beginning of Day1? Isn't that normal?

And your latest post too, it's so defensive. You are playing oddly.


edit: xed with Legate, Rikae and Fea

[Aganzir]

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.
I really doubt that. I was a wolf once in a game where roles were kept secret - we knew there was another wolf team but the village didn't, so we had to pay extra attention so as not to slip anything (and we succeeded in that). I don't think our baddies would be any less careful.

Am I wrong to assume that this game is supposed to go something similar to Di's last game, and in that game weren't there multiple lovers working in pairs? Or perhaps we should completely throw that last game out the window and assume that anything is possible?
She said some changes might be introduced but didn't tell anything more. It might or might not be like the last game. We can't know.

edit: xed since Legate

[Aganzir]

Agan, just questioning: was there something you read that made you suspect there might be both a 'wolf' team as well as individual lovers? Was that something that happened in the last game?
No. It was something that occurred to me while I was writing the very post in which I mentioned it. And no, it's not a theory I would really believe in unless I am proven otherwise. I didn't play in the last game but apparently there were just separate lover pairs.

You take the defensive mode rather quickly. Why would anyone want to lynch you just because you speculate a little about gifteds in the beginning of Day1? Isn't that normal?
The point was not that someone would want to lynch me because of speculating about gifteds, the point was that today I am too talkative to be silenced but by death. :p I should probably have said "if someone has a problem with me talking and being annoying and demanding all the attention &c."

[Aganzir]

I don't think so. If there are any Gifteds, that would be a big bonus, and an important thing to know. Because otherwise, we may lynch "weird" people who are behaving unusually just because they are Gifted.
But we won't know if there are gifteds, and we can lynch gifteds without knowing they are gifted anyway. Like I could be a gifted and since I won't be around at deadline you could just lynch me (not that I'd be a gifted - I'm not).

Hah now I know what's the problem with me! My avvie! Lommy once said she can't take anything I say seriously while I have this avatar.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Aganzir actually looks more like innocent to me lately.

Rikae looks more like innocent to me now, too.

Fea seems to look also innocentish to me.

Anyway:

I really doubt that. I was a wolf once in a game where roles were kept secret - we knew there was another wolf team but the village didn't, so we had to pay extra attention so as not to slip anything (and we succeeded in that). I don't think our baddies would be any less careful.

But about this, I am not so sure. I think such slips may actually happen.

EDIT: Great! At last I didn't crosspost with anybody.

[Lalaith]

Only skim-read so far - I'll read everything closely later tonight.
But I am presuming, for the sake of my sanity, that Di linked to her previous rules for a reason, in that they have some bearing on the current game.

But I don't wonder that this game feels weird. Even if the rules are the same as previously, we will, as Nogs has already shown, face carnage tonight. So there's a certain devil-may-care, eat-drink-and-be-merry-for-tomorrow-we-die feeling about the place. :smokin:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea seems to look also innocentish to me.


All I ever ask for in life... :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

But about this, I am not so sure. I think such slips may actually happen.
And I said it's possible but very unlikely. If you have to keep in your mind all the time that you know more than the rest, would it make you more careful? And mind you, the game I was speaking of had three newbie wolves and no one slipped anything.

edit: xed with Lal and Fea

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But we won't know if there are gifteds, and we can lynch gifteds without knowing they are gifted anyway. Like I could be a gifted and since I won't be around at deadline you could just lynch me (not that I'd be a gifted - I'm not).
Wait, one thing. Somehow I did not notice this one before (I probably crossposted with it, later thinking it was the one I already read). What you say does not make sense (syntactically, semantically) with what you reply to. I said: it will be good to know what roles are around, f.ex. if we have Gifteds. Because for example, had I known for sure that there are NO Gifteds in this game now, I would not have any doubts if I found somebody behaving really, really weirdly, and I would lynch him rightaway. But if I knew there are Gifteds, I could start to ponder whether this weirdness is not a Giftedness instead of Wolfiness.
Not sure what you were supposed to say by the comment.

And I said it's possible but very unlikely. If you have to keep in your mind all the time that you know more than the rest, would it make you more careful? And mind you, the game I was speaking of had three newbie wolves and no one slipped anything.
Now thinking of it again, thank you for saying it. Now it makes sense.

[Gollum the Great]

After what happened last game I find it difficult to trust either Legate or Lommy, but I won't let that bias me. Agan seems jumpy, Legate the guy with a massive brain he always is, and Mac and Rikae ready to go for Agan's throat. The others have made to few (if any) posts for me to make any decisions off of.
Tinkertetonk. Be back soon.

[Aganzir]

What you say does not make sense (syntactically, semantically) with what you reply to. I said: it will be good to know what roles are around, f.ex. if we have Gifteds. Because for example, had I known for sure that there are NO Gifteds in this game now, I would not have any doubts if I found somebody behaving really, really weirdly, and I would lynch him rightaway. But if I knew there are Gifteds, I could start to ponder whether this weirdness is not a Giftedness instead of Wolfiness.
Not sure what you were supposed to say by the comment.
Err in truth I'm not sure. My thinking process goes in Finnish and I'm positive that when I don't pay too much attention to what I write, at least half of my thoughts are lost in translation. And now that I read it, it doesn't make sense to me either.

I suppose the main point was that there's no way we could find out what gifteds there are, if there are any. Ahh and also I had myself as an example of someone who's behaving weirdly, and meant that if I was a gifted instead of just weird and you had a bandwagon against me towards the end of the day when I would be fast asleep, I wouldn't have a chance to come out before it would be too late.
Okay in truth I have no idea where I was getting at with that post.

edit: xed with Gollum

[Macalaure]

Ah, but if you played a cautious wolf, someone might note that that is exactly the strategy that always worked for you before. At least, this way, you have the above excuse ready-made.

ooops. :D

Stirring the pot? I can see what you mean in Lommy's case, but vague suspicions aren't worth much, are they (until everyone starts echoing them, and, before you know it, you have a pointless, useless bandwagon on your hands which isn't even helpful after the fact for finding baddies...).

Of course vague suspicions aren't worth much, but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?

Talking about useless bandwaggons: I'd like to jump on Aganzir's against Sally.

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).

[Aganzir]

Agan seems jumpy
Your reasons please.

Oh and before long you will probably find out that my throat is very popular among these lonely people. Fetishists...

edit: garr xed with Mac

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

After what happened last game I find it difficult to trust either Legate or Lommy, but I won't let that bias me.

Yes, and are you aware that until the last day when I was rightfully lynched, I was a wrongfully suspected innocent? :rolleyes: ;)

EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

[Aganzir]

Talking about useless bandwaggons: I'd like to jump on Aganzir's against Sally.
Hey darling it's not a bandwagon, it's random suspicion though the grounds could be called feeble since it's only this early in the game (but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?). If you go back and read like five games I've last been playing you can see similar suspicions regardless of what my role has been.

[Eönwë]

Is Lommie crazier than usual? Or is it just me?

Lommy is always crazy (well, at least in WW)

The problem is that once night hits a big chunk of this village is going the way of the dodo, so we best hope to indeed get baddie(s) today so they can't kill off so many in the Night.

But won't there also be more chance of them killing each other (If it's like the last game). Well, it's all shrouded in mystery. But there's no use speculating on what roles there are today, because we have nothing to go on, and we might just make it harder for ourselves.

I'll be back after reading the thread

[A Little Green]

And, Aganzir, I agree on the gender thing - we should lynch all the females in alphabetical order. Thanks a lot, darling.

Well, anyway - I'm finally here and I can say right away that I don't suspect anyone. :rolleyes: Maybe I'll just make a list.
Groin - No read.
Lommy - Basic lommism, meaning that she feels innocentish but knowing her she could as well be a naughty evil thing who is laughing at us all.
Aganzir - She's indeed playing a bit oddly. Maybe she's a cobbler. :p She tends to be more smooth as a real baddie and certainly more smooth as a gifted. but then somehow she doesn't feel like an ordo.
Legate - That guy is plain silly. :p Which means that I should be worried - he plays very differently from what I remember, or at least gives different vibes. He seems somehow more joking and absurd and cheerful than he usually does in WW. As though he had nothing in the world to worry about.. Then another thing related to Legate - I don't know why, but I'm a bit uneasy with the seeming air of"Oooh Legate he's a good wise player let's listen to what he says!" around. Not that we shouldn't listen to him also, but if he's a baddie that attitude can be pretty dangerous.
Kitanna - No read.
Gollum - No read.
Nogrod - Has been surprisingly quiet, I wonder if this is again one of those games where he promises to talk less...
Brinniel - Nice and confused, as always. No idea of what her role could be.
Sally - No idea.
Shasta - Where is he?
Gwath - Where is he?
Rikae - A hard case. No idea as yet.
Mac - Seems innocentish?
McCaber - Where is he?
Fea - I haven't the foggiest idea, could be anything.
Eönwë - No read.
Lalaith - Where is she?
Eomer - Where is he?

This is all I can come up with this far. Nice jokes at the beginning, guys.
Ahem.

Maybe I'll just shut up when I have nothing more to say.


EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

[Macalaure]

Hey darling it's not a bandwagon, it's random suspicion though the grounds could be called feeble since it's only this early in the game (but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?). If you go back and read like five games I've last been playing you can see similar suspicions regardless of what my role has been.

I said "useless bandwaggon" as a joke, what I just meant was: I agree with your point. I wonder... what I said was absolutely no attack against you, why did you defend yourself? You confused me there, honey.

[Aganzir]

Then another thing related to Legate - I don't know why, but I'm a bit uneasy with the seeming air of"Oooh Legate he's a good wise player let's listen to what he says!" around. Not that we shouldn't listen to him also, but if he's a baddie that attitude can be pretty dangerous.
I definitely agree, but then on the other hand we all know those young men are crazy about him. ;) I guess we just have to understand them...

Anyway there was especially this:
Legate: Back to his usual self: giving good analysis and entering in the disscussion to help stimulate a chance of catching a real wolf.

Aganzir: Trying to sound like she's helping everyone by posting and showing that she's here. Her posts are somewhat helpful, but they're mostly full of petty arguments on the best way to capture a wolf (something along those lines).

Sorry if I overestimate myself but I don't really see how Legate was at that point so much more helpful than I. Yes I admit I was joking more than he but still. It's the way you have formulated the post; Legate is helping and clever while I try to sound helpful (instead of actually trying to be helpful) and my arguments are petty (although I was joking, I wasn't doing it all the time).

[Eönwë]

If Mac is aknowledging that Rikae is attacking him just as a joke, why does he bother to defend himself? Is he a bit jumpy maybe?

Aren't you being jumpy? Picking out anyone who might be the slightest bit suspicious, or just simply wants to defend themselves so early in the game (After all, despite what I said in my above post, it's better- or at least more sensible- if we kill the wolves now. Both ways its down to luck and vague suspicions, at least this early in the game).

I'm definitely going to x-post so I won't even bother writing who with.

edit: turns out it's only Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

I said "useless bandwaggon" as a joke, what I just meant was: I agree with your point. I wonder... what I said was absolutely no attack against you, why did you defend yourself? You confused me there, honey.
I didn't get your joke, bunny, and thought it was a weak point since you had just said yourself that you posted something because it was all that you had.

edit: xed with Eönwë

[Eönwë]

Now, does Mac know that? Is he being jumpy? It's possible, I suppose.

First she disassociates herself from him by suspecting him, then she defends him. But would Di really make them a couple just to tease us?

x-ed with Agan again

[Thinlómien]

Hah now I know what's the problem with me! My avvie! Lommy once said she can't take anything I say seriously while I have this avatar.I just really can't!

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).I'm not trying to make enemies with her! Do you want proof? For I was just thinking that she looks more and more innocent as the Day proceeds. ;)

Oh and before long you will probably find out that my throat is very popular among these lonely people. Fetishists...Really too bad - I first read "Fenrisists" and thought "ha! caught you!"... :D

Lommy is always crazy (well, at least in WW)Why thank you. :D

Nogrod - Has been surprisingly quiet, I wonder if this is again one of those games where he promises to talk less...Well, I wouldn't be worried - it's less than 9pm, he could still be at work and returning about this time and then be around here until the wee hours of the morning... Haha.

Aren't you being jumpy? Picking out anyone who might be the slightest bit suspicious, or just simply wants to defend themselves so early in the game (After all, despite what I said in my above post, it's better- or at least more sensible- if we kill the wolves now. Both ways its down to luck and vague suspicions, at least this early in the game).No, I'm merely trying to find suspiciousish behaviour. Too bad if there isn't very much of it at this phase yet.

Now that I've been thinking, I've got the feeling there's something odd about Rikae.

[Eönwë]

Is it me, or is it just us Europeans at this time of day (night- well, 7 here, but it's dark).

[Kitanna]

I looked back at the previous installment of this game. There were five deaths on the first gameNight: watcher, one pair of lovers and two ordos. So about 1/4th of the village was wiped out in a single Night.
Oh the carnage...at least a pair of lovers was killed, right? (insert hopeful smile)

Kit is hardly saying anything, could be wishing to slip under the radar.
Curse that busy schedule of mine. :p

3) After the last game, I swore to do my utmost to get him lynched on day one. About Mac.
Sounds fair enough. I promised that I'd lynch her if I ever played with her again. About Agan
I'm up for it too. Agan again...
There seems to be a lot of vengeance out in this village. I feel left out because I don't have anyone to take revenge out on.

But in seriousness (even if for a moment) is the idea that Lommy and Legate had jumped out to a few people. I want to take a look into those who suggested it and Lommy and Legate themselves. I see nothing particularly odd about either so I'd like to see what makes them so suspicious to the few (sally and Mac I remember off the bat) who brought them up.

Also this from Rikae makes me wonder:
2) Di wouldn't make both Mac and I ordos. Ergo, he has a role, and, judging by point #1, that role is an evil one.
I realize this point doesn't do anyone any good until I'm dead, but that shouldn't take long when Mac is evil.
Very easily her attempt to see Mac lynched is a joke, but at the same time...
For the record, just because I add a joke to something, doesn't mean I'm entirely joking.
Now, does Mac know that? Is he being jumpy? It's possible, I suppose.
So her suspicions of Mac are half-serious. What worries me about this is it feels like a bluff. Something like "Well, I'm obviously innocent and you'll completely and utterly regret lynching me, so don't even try." At first glance the first quote from Rikae didn't seem all that bad, but as I reread it I started to worry. It looks like Rikae is trying a bit too hard to cement herself as an innocent.

Mac's response to Rikae looks a bit like, I don't know, wolfish...Mac just seems to be too quick to forget the gifted factor, like a wolf trying to think like an innocent but not wholly succeeding. Does anybody understand what I mean?
I get what you're saying, but given how I feel about Rikae's "accusation", I don't know how suspicious Mac really is. Maybe Mac was jumpy, but innocents can get jumpy and defensive too.

I am still frantically trying to read through the posts, but I have to attend to a few other things first. I will probably vote in a little less than an hour and a half, hopefully I'll get a chance to look at those who pointed out Lommy and Legate.

[Thinlómien]

Alright then, let's force Lommy to think more about this all...

Groin - innocent enough. He's calling me silly, though. :D
Aganzir - my opinion of her varies from jumpy baddie to a sweet flibbertigibbet. Currently, I'm not worried. (And even if I were, I wouldn't vote her toDay. She hasn't played ww for ages and I like her contribution.)
Legate - does not worry me.
Kitanna - doesn't reveal much of herself. I think she tends to be more silent when she's evil but it would be very hasty draw that kind of conclusions at this phase of the game.
Gollum - don't have an opinion on yet.
Nogrod - is ghastlily silent. Where is he?
Brinniel - my greenish sister said: "Nice and confused, as always. No idea of what her role could be." and I can agree with that statement.
Sally - her normal self, which sadly does not mean we can trust her (yet).
Rikae - I can't pinpoint it, but she seems a little odd to me. Maybe she does too sharp turns, or something.
Mac - well, despite everything I've said, he seems innocentish to me, although it would be foolish to be anything close to certain. He just seems more like his innocent self than his guilty self... but I know, he has fooled me before.
Fea - innocentish, but I'd rather vote myself than bet on it.
Greenie - no idea yet.
Eönwë - another young gentleman who calls me silly. :D More innocent than guilty, but that means absolutely nothing at this phase.
Lalaith - not enough to form an opinion on. Smart as always, for sure.
McCaber, Shasta, Gwath & Eomer - given how innocent the others seem in general, they must be all evil. :rolleyes:

Ouch, no idea who to vote and bed-time approaches... I have a feeling I might vote someone who has not contributed much but given the weird deadline it does seem a little unfair...


edit: xed with Kittie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But in seriousness (even if for a moment) is the idea that Lommy and Legate had jumped out to a few people. I want to take a look into those who suggested it and Lommy and Legate themselves. I see nothing particularly odd about either so I'd like to see what makes them so suspicious to the few (sally and Mac I remember off the bat) who brought them up.

I don't think a serious person may believe anything like that, unless it is a mass conspiracy, in which case: stop that! Just for this reason, and after the experience from the last game, I put this into my very first post in this game:

P.S. Especially for some people, just a preventive note: no, we are not.

[Nogrod]

Oh my! :eek:

I predicted the game would gain some speed a few hours ago only to find that there are something like one and half pages of stuff written between my last visit here and now...

To answer Lommy shortly about my "ghastly silence" as I can see her post right up above: working... sadly, working... :(

But I'll stick to reading the thread now and will be back shortly, hopefully with something to say.

[Aganzir]

Okay I read quickly through the thread in order to see if anything should catch my eye.

I think Mac and Rikae are weird.

1) He pops in early on day 1 bursting with overconfidence that he knows exactly how this game will go down - ie, just like the last.
I agree about this.

However, Rikae's certainty that Mac has a role because she hasn't is strange. The point that Di wouldn't make them both ordos is just bad. There's a certain likelihood that two good players get a special role, but there are many others than Mac and Rikae as well - and who knows if the roles were selected randomly? In any case, it definitely isn't a point I would use against somebody, and to me it seems Rikae should know better, too. I don't find it that surprising that Lommy thought her accusations of Mac were a joke.

If you look back on my past wolf appearances, you will see that the bursting and overconfident wolves usually ended up as very early roadkill. Why should I play like that if I was evil?
Saying "As a wolf, I wouldn't do this" isn't really the best possible way to defend oneself.

Last time she semi-randomized the roles, so it might actually be possible we're on the same side at last. Otherwise, since I know I'm innocent, you're evil, which would mean that I would have to try to get you lynched, which I rather wouldn't.
This quote just keeps bothering me... Really I know it's quite petty but that on the same side just feels wrong. I can't explain it (I tried to write my thoughts down but got so mixed up that decided to let it be).
I don't know - Mac just seems to find the idea that one of them has a role so normal, so casual... And to him role only means either an ordo or a baddie - no thoughts about possible giftedness. Like "if you don't (at least pretend to) believe I'm innocent I will have to lynch you, so better believe it!" Sorry, this is unclear. I just can't put it any better.

You can't just assume your audience knows what you're talking about: so before you get to the point, you make sure everybody's got a bit of foundational knowledge.
That's a totally different matter. You don't get a bit of foundational knowledge by speculating.
I still think Fea's reasons as to why we should talk about the possible roles are bad. The last one (about the chance of slipping) wasn't as bad as the earlier ones, but even it looked more like she had just come up with it suddenly after running out of other reasons. I doubt very much anyone would slip anything, and therefore all rule talk seems to me more like a futile thing to do.
I'm not saying you couldn't do it, I just don't see the sense in it.
I remember once asking a player if she encouraged speculating and trying to get into some conclusion because she was afraid of slipping something she shouldn't have known and therefore wanted some public agreement about how things most likely could be. It came to my mind now.

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...
The tone of this post is somewhat accusing, as if Rikae tried to indicate she had caught me slipping something. Dunno - too surprised-sounding to sound honest. Overreacting to a comment. (For the record, it was the sentence where I said we couldn't know if the baddies had both a team and lovers.)

Ergo, anybody denying the validity of creating hypothetical lists either doesn't understand the significance of seeking motive, or doesn't want to have to construct posts which look more innocent than they are.
You know, it sounds a bit like you were implying that speculating about rules instead of people is more significant when trying to pester out the baddies and their lovers, which is certainly not the case.

If we force discussion about a specific topic, we force what will essentially be a series of lies from people who know more than everybody else about what's going on. The more lies a person is forced to tell, the easier it is to pick out inconsistencies, as well as it being easier to glean knowledge we probably wouldn't otherwise have.
You're really too keen on that rule discussion now.

Actually I think Fea could be a lover or something - the way she stubbornly sets out to defend the pros of rule discussion is odd, and especially taken to such lengths, it doesn't sound entirely honest.

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).
I agree she's being somewhat too nice.

I'm not trying to make enemies with her! Do you want proof? For I was just thinking that she looks more and more innocent as the Day proceeds.
What you refrained from saying when replying to Mac actually says: "I'm being too nice and try not to make any enemies, not even Agan!"
Lommy is really too tra-la-la-ley, happy and nice.

So now if I had to make a list of people who have posted enough to catch my attention in a negative way thus far, it'd consist of Mac, Rikae, Lommy and Fea.

edit: xed with Kit, Lom, Leg & Nog

[Thinlómien]

To answer Lommy shortly about my "ghastly silence" as I can see her post right up above: working... sadly, working... :(Be at peace, daddy, I suspected as much. ;) Nice to see you around. :D


edit: xed with Agan

[Gollum the Great]

Yes, and are you aware that until the last day when I was rightfully lynched, I was a wrongfully suspected innocent? :rolleyes: ;)

I remember that, rather funny.

I try to sound helpful - from Agan

I don't know about the others, but your posts haven't helped me.

[Aganzir]

I don't know about the others, but your posts haven't helped me.
Then the problem is certainly with you, not me. ;)
The point was that in my opinion there weren't enough differences in helpfulness between me and Legate's posts at that point to justify Groin's entirely different treatment of us. It had me wondering if he was trying to get a strong ally in Legate.

And what actually were your reasons to call me jumpy, my dear Madam/Sir? ;)

[Thinlómien]

Now I know what's wrong with me. I've been wolf in the past two games, and I last played as innocent in early June. So small wonder if I have problems accustoming myself to really hunting wolves. I mean, I do pay attention to suspicious things people say, but I don't go as far as to start really suspecting them. I'm not thinking about who's a wolf, I'm just commenting everything that people say... Not good. Maybe I should let Greenie back here now and go re-wire my brain meanwhile...

[Aganzir]

I get what you're saying, but given how I feel about Rikae's "accusation", I don't know how suspicious Mac really is. Maybe Mac was jumpy, but innocents can get jumpy and defensive too.
Well technically it's possible they're both baddies, if there are just lover pairs who don't know of one another.

Groin - innocent enough. He's calling me silly, though. :D
Eönwë - another young gentleman who calls me silly. :D More innocent than guilty, but that means absolutely nothing at this phase.
Someone should be reeeally careful now... After all, we know how easily Lommy is seduced by saying silly! ;)

edit: xed with Lommy

[Kitanna]

Well technically it's possible they're both baddies, if there are just lover pairs who don't know of one another.
Possible, of course, but I feel better about Mac than I do about Rikae, but don't think I'd discounted the fact they could both be up to no good. ;)

[Gollum the Great]

And what actually were your reasons to call me jumpy, my dear Madam/Sir? ;)

You post often, make long posts, were swift to accuse and are quick to defend yourself. You're also out for lots blood and seem very excited about the game (not that blame you;)). That is my idea of jumpy.

PS, I'm male.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think Mac and Rikae are weird.
I am not feeling anything especially strange about Rikae, and I have not been paying much attention to their exchanges (rather because I am really not the one for deep analysis of these exchanges), but Mac at least seemed weird to me from the beginning, and I have him marked as one to eventually vote for.

Lommy is really too tra-la-la-ley, happy and nice.
Yes, actually, this is true, too. Too unconflicting, and as I recall her from the last game, there is perhaps something similar in there. And she seems to be more... reserved to talk about various topics, keeping just out of the main spotlight, while still contributing enough to be noticed.

I remember that, rather funny.
Depends for whom...

EDIT: x-ed since the Gollum I quoted

[Thinlómien]

Yes, actually, this is true, too. Too unconflicting, and as I recall her from the last game, there is perhaps something similar in there. And she seems to be more... reserved to talk about various topics, keeping just out of the main spotlight, while still contributing enough to be noticed.Bah, give me any topic and I'll talk about it. ;)

[Aganzir]

You post often, make long posts, were swift to accuse and are quick to defend yourself. You're also out for lots blood and seem very excited about the game (not that blame you;)). That is my idea of jumpy.
My idea of jumpy means quickly defending oneself against the smallest of suspicions and therefore I don't consider myself more jumpy than I usually am. Posting much and being accusatory, on the other hand, aren't a part of that idea.

And yeah I like blood (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=569675&postcount=1266). Downer blood is especially tasty.

edit: xed with Legate & Lommy

[Macalaure]

++*
Lommy

+
Legate ~ something's wrong there
Sally
Eonwe ~ another one who's being too nice
Brinniel ~ has talked exclusively about the rules so far
Groin ~ gives me a bad feeling

o
Kitanna ~ always have a hard time reading her
Gollum ~ no idea
Lily ~ one post, and that was a list - easy way to appear involved
Lalaith ~ no idea

-
Aganzir ~ too argumentative to be a wolf, methinks
Nogrod ~ no alarms yet, which is alarming
Rikae ~ accuses and defends me, which is what innocent Rikaes tend to do, but evil Rikaes might as well

--
Fea ~ strikes me very innocent

?
Shasta, Gwath, McCaber, Eomer ~ these fellows really better show up. This large number of silent ones is especially worrying since we are lacking modkill.


It's nice that we have so many baddies in this village (well, presumably): I can call six people suspicious without having to worry about who of them I'm necessarily wrong about. :D

(*edit: no, this was no vote - sorry about the stupid formatting)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The point was that in my opinion there weren't enough differences in helpfulness between me and Legate's posts at that point to justify Groin's entirely different treatment of us. It had me wondering if he was trying to get a strong ally in Legate.
That's actually a good point, too, and I noticed it too. (Great. Now I seem like doing nothing but quoting Agan and agreeing with her, but she simply says things which make sense now. This is also why I am inclined to trust her: she probably would not have made such an effort had she not had the best intentions of the village in her mind. Well, of course she could have just her own best intentions, which include helping to get rid of other lover pairs... or she is simply bored and has lots of time...) Anyway, trying to "jump on the train" of me would fit well with a Guilty Groin, and I am inclined to think about it as of a likely possibility. Still though, for example Mac I suspect more strongly than him (or, have more grounds for it).

Bah, give me any topic and I'll talk about it. ;)
Really? ;) Okay, you said it yourself, sweetheart...

[Eönwë]

Aganzir ~ too argumentative to be a wolf, methinks
Or just a bold wolf?
She seems very - dare I say it?- phantom-ish (in her own little way) to me this game. I don't know whether that's good or bad thing.

Rikae ~ accuses and defends me, which is what innocent Rikaes tend to do, but evil Rikaes might as well
And now your defending her too, but not obviously so. Hmmm... The plot thickens

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm a bit surprised by how much people have been able to chat. Far as I can see, we know nothing, and it's deliberate. We're not supposed to know anything; we're supposed to grope blindly in the dark, providing delicious entertainment for the mod in the process. Well, I'm not falling for that yet. I presume only that there are villains. It's probable that some will stay quiet and some will be very involved in discussion, trying to determine, in public to greater the acclaim, the nature of the game.

Whether you're doing that by reference to the last game, I'm not sure. I would say that it's dangerous to let the past game affect your appraisal overly. I'd say that there's been far too much talk over little not to have some active villains, acting the wise.

Well, I'm all for a bit more substance. So:

++Rikae

Have at it. :smokin:


Edit: crossed with Mac, who has seemingly got the first vote in. Curse him, stealing my thunder...

[Kitanna]

I have to hurry and vote. I stand by my suspicions of Rikae. I don't like her "joke" accusation toward Mac, seeing as she admitted it wasn't necessarily an entire joke. I feel bad about her.

++Rikae

I find the talk around Agan and Agan herself. But I'm not sure I find anything overly suspicious about here. I probably won't be back, though I'll try, but I've voted now just in case.

Edit: I see Eomer beat me to the Rikae vote...jerk :P

[Eönwë]

Edit: crossed with Mac, who has seemingly got the first vote in. Curse him, stealing my thunder...

No! yet again you beat me to it! Stealing my thunder.

Now I will stay longer and see if anything makes me change my mind.

edit: x-ed with Kitanna- another person stealing my Rikae vote. Grrr!:p

[Lalaith]

This large number of silent ones is especially worrying since we are lacking modkill.

I don't like silent players either, but in this game they are less worrying, probably, than in normal games because in this game all baddies are linked with another baddie. So even if one flies under radar his/her lover could still cop it.
Unless of course we have a pair of silent lovers.

[Diamond18]

I can't tell if Mac's post contains an actual vote or not. Mac, if it is a vote, please clarify. If it isn't, I shall slap you for your formatting.

[Aganzir]

Great. Now I seem like doing nothing but quoting Agan and agreeing with her, but she simply says things which make sense now.
Don't worry - you can't help it that I'm so darn smart.

She seems very - dare I say it?- phantom-ish (in her own little way) to me this game. I don't know whether that's good or bad thing.
Ooh Eönwë I love you! Let's get married!

I've got to vote in about two hours if I don't want to wake up hours earlier than I otherwise should (which I don't). I think I'd prefer voting Mac over Rikae but since Rikae already has votes, I'm maybe a bit more inclined to add there one more.

Anyway, now I need something to eat, and I should probably also do some school things. Maybe. But I'll stay online anyway so I'm not entirely gone.

edit: xed with Lal and The Honourable Corpse

[Macalaure]

I can't tell if Mac's post contains an actual vote or not. Mac, if it is a vote, please clarify. If it isn't, I shall slap you for your formatting.

Ai! Sorry. No, that was no vote... it's not on the same line and the "++" is not bolded. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I don't like silent players either, but in this game they are less worrying, probably, than in normal games because in this game all baddies are linked with another baddie. So even if one flies under radar his/her lover could still cop it.
Unless of course we have a pair of silent lovers.

I would not worry about that. Except for the last alternative (in which case however, I'd call them cowards not worthy of winning), given that there'll be probably lots of nightly kills, even the silent players may meet their ends. And still, this village is relatively big, so not that much need to worry about silent players for right now (although of course we may slowly extend the pressure on them, but that will, I think, come naturally as the numbers of players will be lowering).

I am keeping my eye on the silent Nogrod, though. Horrible! Such an irresponsibility! How comes he does not find any time to post? A few almost one-liners? Now come on! That's too much! Such people should not even play! :p

I am not quite comfortable with the idea of everybody voting Rikae suddenly, as I am more inclined to think that Mac is the evil one here (if not both, of course). I just hope there will be more people to vote for Mac as well, as he is No.1 for me toDay.

EDIT: x-ed since Lalaith

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ai! Sorry. No, that was no vote... it's not on the same line and the "++" is not bolded. :rolleyes:

Hmm, I'd suggest you use asterisks or something rather next time. That confused me, too (and seemingly lots of others). The symbol of two pluses is already taken... (hey, then what about using three or such?)

[Macalaure]

I don't like her "joke" accusation toward Mac, seeing as she admitted it wasn't necessarily an entire joke.It is perfectly normal for her to mix seriousness with joking. Even though I was at the receiving end of this suspicion, I really didn't see it suspicious in turn at all.

I really don't like this sudden rush of Rikae-votes. Aganzir's pondering to add more fuel to the waggon does not sit right with me.

[Nogrod]

I am keeping my eye on the silent Nogrod, though. Horrible! Such an irresponsibility!You guys keep posting such a lot that it takes time to catch you up... But I'm there now... at this minute. Just a moment... :p

[Macalaure]

I'm not comfortable with the general focus of suspicions at the moment (almost exclusively me, Rikae, Aganzir, and Lommy). Too many people got by without anybody noticing. Please, have a closer look at things each of you. There's an incredible number of submarines right now.

[Gollum the Great]

I don't quite understand why Rikae given those two votes. Perhaps I was not paying attention. I cannot think of anyone who would bear a great deal of watching at the present; we have so little evidence to build suspicions off of.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I really don't like this sudden rush of Rikae-votes. Aganzir's pondering to add more fuel to the waggon does not sit right with me.
Indeed. Let's lynch you instead. ;)

You guys keep posting such a lot that it takes time to catch you up... But I'm there now... at this minute. Just a moment... :p

What do you think I was trying to do all the evening :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm not comfortable with the general focus of suspicions at the moment (almost exclusively me, Rikae, Aganzir, and Lommy). Too many people got by without anybody noticing. Please, have a closer look at things each of you. There's an incredible number of submarines right now.

Okay, point taken. I am going to re-evaluate everything, though still, of course people are voting for those for whom they have most grounds... or who are easy to lynch by starting/jumping on a bandwaggon :rolleyes: (like we just saw...)

[Eönwë]

This post was about to be a vote-post, but for some reason I just had a sudden feeling that I shouldn't vote Rikae.
I'll wait and see what she has to say for herself (if it's in the next 45 minutes).

[A Little Green]

Bah, give me any topic and I'll talk about it. Let's see... How about electromagnetic wave equations? :p

Unless of course we have a pair of silent lovers. Now that is a scary thought. I don't like the number of silent ones, either - but I'll live in hope that they get the chance to contribute still toDay even though I didn't see it until tomorrow.

Which brought to my mind... I want to go to sleep pretty soon, which means I should vote pretty soon, which means I'm in trouble since I'm having my traditional Day 1 "Oh no I don't suspect anyone" crisis. :rolleyes:

Then, some other random stuff that crossed my mind while I read..

1) Legate and Agan bring up good points about Groin; I didn't really pay attention to the matter before, but now that I reread the post it does seem weird. This is something I should think about a little more.

2) I don't know what to think of this sudden cross-post flood of Rikae votes. Granted, she has been a bit strange - but still, what, something like four Rikae-votes or semi-votes just suddenly appearing all at once? It's plain weird.

3)Actually I think Fea could be a lover or something - the way she stubbornly sets out to defend the pros of rule discussion is odd, and especially taken to such lengths, it doesn't sound entirely honest.I agree that sticking to the rule discussion is a bit odd, but I wouldn't be so hasty as to call it suspicious. After all, in the early phases of the game, it's as good a topic as any, and if it gets people to talk then I don't see the harm in it. It's a way to get some discussion going similarly as joking and banter is, though it isn't as entertaining ( :rolleyes: ). I don't really think much can be derived from Fea's excessive rule discussion thing.

Like I said I am not yet decided on who to vote. I think I'll read some bits again and come back (hopefully) with some ideas and a vote.


EDIT: x-ed OH MY GOSH with everyone since Agan's post number 103...

[Aganzir]

I really don't like this sudden rush of Rikae-votes. Aganzir's pondering to add more fuel to the waggon does not sit right with me.
This comment of Mac's doesn't sit right with me and makes me more inclined to vote for him instead. It's wolfish.
However, you can see my points against Rikae (added to a general bad feeling) in some earlier post I won't bother to find for you myself now.

I don't quite understand why Rikae given those two votes. Perhaps I was not paying attention. I cannot think of anyone who would bear a great deal of watching at the present; we have so little evidence to build suspicions off of.
I don't know about Eomer but at least in my opinion Kitanna had valid reasons.

As for submarines, have we all Europeans forgotten that only a bit more than a half of the first day has passed? They have well time to appear although most of us might not be around then.

edit: xed with Legate, Eönwë & Greenie

[Nogrod]

In the earlier game there were four independent pairs of lovers (werecats, werebirds etc...). In one game - possibly it was the Hoy Brasil - there were wolves as normal but they all had secret lovers behind the others' backs (so in the end all the wolves were playing for themselves even if they posed as friends to each other).

We have a host of possibilities then.

But one thing we should remember is that whatever the case this is a lovers game and in those two are always interconnected. So more than normal, the lovers will defend each other if it looks like it the other one is going to get lynched.

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.

Other defendings have been more vague up till now, but I need to look at it again.

And I have some other suggestions as well but I'll post this first not to write a novel out of this first one.

[Eönwë]

As for submarines, have we all Europeans forgotten that only a bit more than a half of the first day has passed? They have well time to appear although most of us might not be around then.

Yes, I'm used to being in the second half of the game, once all the main stuff of the day has happened and I'm reading over it. It seems strange now that I'm only in the first half.

[A Little Green]

As for submarines, have we all Europeans forgotten that only a bit more than a half of the first day has passed? They have well time to appear although most of us might not be around then.Alas, so true.

There was one thing I forgot to mention in my last post. About Lommy's list, then. I'm too lazy to look for it again, but I noticed that at almost every single point there was some kind of "seems a bit suspicious because of xxxxx, but then feels quite OK and it's silly to draw conclusions at this phase". I know we can't be sure of anything at this phase, but the way she has to emphasise it so often in order to sort of soften her points seems a bit exaggerated.

I'll vote soon because I want to go to sleep. No idea who to vote, though. I will definitely not vote Rikae - I don't find her particularly suspicious and besides I don't like it when there is but one person who is being voted. It's nothing to encourage discussion other than "Oh my, a bandwaggon!" and is the perfect spot for baddies to slip away unnoticed.


EDIT: x-ed withNoggins and Eönwë

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I remember once asking a player if she encouraged speculating and trying to get into some conclusion because she was afraid of slipping something she shouldn't have known and therefore wanted some public agreement about how things most likely could be. It came to my mind now.

I assure you with all seriousness and all understanding of the implications of the statement: if I was going to slip something, I'd do it on purpose.

Actually I think Fea could be a lover or something - the way she stubbornly sets out to defend the pros of rule discussion is odd, and especially taken to such lengths, it doesn't sound entirely honest.

What in the world makes you think I want to be honest?

I'm not comfortable with the general focus of suspicions at the moment (almost exclusively me, Rikae, Aganzir, and Lommy). Too many people got by without anybody noticing.

And here I thought that we were supposed to be excited about the number of bad guys, what with it meaning that our suspicions can exist with impunity. :rolleyes:

As for submarines, have we all Europeans forgotten that only a bit more than a half of the first day has passed? They have well time to appear although most of us might not be around then.

Gracias, m'dear. I know I for one have been in classes or at work for the better part of the past ten hours. But after that I'm basically free until I go to bed a couple hours before deadline. This is possibly the most convenient deadline period I've ever played in: I'm actually around for most of the second half of the day.

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.

Sorry, stupid question: Lovers know each others' identities, right? They're not fumbling in the dark hoping they don't accidentally kill their counterpart?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This comment of Mac's doesn't sit right with me and makes me more inclined to vote for him instead. It's wolfish.
However, you can see my points against Rikae (added to a general bad feeling) in some earlier post I won't bother to find for you myself now.
Unnecessarily getting yourself provoked, I'd think... though of course nothing against your intentions to vote Mac.

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.

Okay, now I will once again sound like repeating something, but I have thought of that too. I was not only sure if it is not just me making up things. Apparently I am not the only one to whom that idea occured: that Kitanna's choice to go after Rikae (and to vote her, especially timed so, when the option to vote either Rikae or Mac was hanging in the air for some people) and her comments about Mac seeming innocent which are not bringing him into that much spotlight but defending him still, can be more than just sideway comments. One more reason to lynch Mac, to find out if she by chance does not die, too... (now I must be sounding rather nasty, but that's the way it goes.)

EDIT: x-ed since the Nog I quoted

[A Little Green]

Bah, I'll just vote now.

++ Groin

No proper suspicion as I have that on no one - this is based almost entirely on gut-feeling. He has been one of the least innocentish toDay and I don't quite like the tone of some things he has said.

ToMorrow I'll have an eye on at least Lommy and, well, just about everyone.

Good night darlings.


EDIT: x-ed with Fea and Legate

[Nogrod]

Okay from the beginning onwards then...

Sally looks from the beginning a bit too, how should one call it, up to the real thing? I mean maybe I'm just a paranoid but this really made me worried as Sally's second post - after a comforting nonsense-babble of her first post: I'm fairly optimistic about toDay actually. Like a couple others have said, our chances of finding a baddie aren't too shabby. And two for the price of one always makes me happy.

The problem is that once night hits a big chunk of this village is going the way of the dodo, so we best hope to indeed get baddie(s) today so they can't kill off so many in the Night.I mean all of this is right and straight. But it's Sally saying this! Somehow the general attitude looks like it betrays Sally is not her normal self but tries something she isn't.


Also I'm a bit weary of Fea as well. Not because she brings up the rule-discussion but because she acts like a helpful and reasonable villager. Now to my experience she likes to toy around when she has nothing more interesting to do to keep her interested in the game. Now she has been ashtonishingly active for her on Day1 and soo sensible! It just cries evil to me. My only doubt is would she be that readable and is it only a change of tactics?


And to add my two cents to the discussion about the relative profit of voting the quiet ones / submarines toDay. I'm absolutely for it!

Normally we always risk just getting our numbers down by one but in this one we have a chance of bringing down the real player (however the roles are spread between them) who's tied with the submarine if we hit.

Okay. Need to take a short break. Back soon...


EDIT: X'd from my last one onwards...

[Macalaure]

I just skimmed the entire thread again to find the post in which Legate gives his reasons to suspect me as strongly as he does. I did not find it. Would you help me out, Legate? Either I completely overlooked it (I really hope I didn't - that'd be embarrassing), or I finally have a valid reason to suspect you.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

My only doubt is would she be that readable and is it only a change of tactics?

A couple responses to this: the last few games I've played in, I've been absolutely swamped with school work and the deadlines were at absolutely horrid times for me. In this game, I'm awake for all but a couple hours of the day. I mean, I'm asleep for the first few hours and maybe for the last one or two, but the midsection? For the first time in ages, game time occurs when I'm wide awake and not busy. Also, midterms have passed and I'm in the lazy spot before finals become a legitimate concern. I've literally finished all the reading homework assigned for the rest of the semester for one of my classes, I'm for once that far ahead. My term paper for another class? Practically written already. I seriously have nothing better to do.

I was also cracked out on caffeine for most of today, thus leading me to not only post a lot but to start a new painting, write a story, do reading homework, clean and organize my room--

Yeah. Anyway. Caffeine + good deadline - scary schoolwork = more involved player.

Besides- I'm fascinated by Di's manipulation of us all. It reminds me of a game I'd mod. And we all know I'm interested in myself more than I'm interested in most others...

[Aganzir]

About Lommy's list, then. I'm too lazy to look for it again, but I noticed that at almost every single point there was some kind of "seems a bit suspicious because of xxxxx, but then feels quite OK and it's silly to draw conclusions at this phase". I know we can't be sure of anything at this phase, but the way she has to emphasise it so often in order to sort of soften her points seems a bit exaggerated.
I noticed it too but didn't pay it any more attention back then - at least consciously.

I assure you with all seriousness and all understanding of the implications of the statement: if I was going to slip something, I'd do it on purpose.
I can believe that. ;) However, let's say you were a lover who wasn't sure her counterpart could avoid slipping. It works also that way.

What in the world makes you think I want to be honest?
It was a nice way to say you were suspicious.

Sorry, stupid question: Lovers know each others' identities, right? They're not fumbling in the dark hoping they don't accidentally kill their counterpart?
I would assume they do. I can't see the sense in it being any other way.

Unnecessarily getting yourself provoked, I'd think... though of course nothing against your intentions to vote Mac.
I'm not. His comment really was wolfish. Now that the first bandwagon has started to form and I say I could vote for her since I've been suspecting her anyway, he suddenly finds it wolfish. I don't like how Mac's hesitating whether or not to suspect people who suspect him - or so it seems to me.

edit: xed with Mac and Fea

[Eönwë]

Is it just me, or has everyone just said- "Vote me and you're evil"?

[Nogrod]

Just adding to my comments about Fea in light of her latest one...

First I thought it looked liked her becoming more to her normal self but then this last one kind of caught my eye: Sorry, stupid question: Lovers know each others' identities, right? They're not fumbling in the dark hoping they don't accidentally kill their counterpart?She has played if not more games than I have but definitively she's been around for a longer period. But I've played a quite a few games myself as well, also with lovers, but I don't recall a game were the lovers would be blind to each other (I may be wrong though and wish to be corrected in that case). And if - and when - I'm right I'm just wondering what was that remark of Fea for as she should know it? To give the impression she is not one of any of the pairs because of her total ignorance over the basic rule? Somehow I can't bring myself to fully support even that conclusion... at least yet.

Of course Di said we will not know how the dynamics of the game will work and that is true. She might have come up with an idea about blind lovers... or then my memory or experience have just failed me.

EDIT: X'd from Fea onwards. Good to hear what you say about your energies!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

However, let's say you were a lover who wasn't sure her counterpart could avoid slipping. It works also that way.

If I'm a lover then our dear Moddess thought it would be hilarious not to tell me who my counterpart was.

[Lalaith]

Having read over the thread, here are some thoughts on the lot of youse.
First, the ones that I'm feeling ok with...
Nogrod seems quite calm and sensible.
Mac has made some good points too.
Brinniel asks a lot of questions but they are questions I'd pondered too, so I'm not terribly worried about her right now.
Eomer is nonchalant, his points are sensible and he seems ok for now...
Then the don't knows.
Gollum, no idea. Never played with him, of course.
Kitanna and Little Green...both have voted, but strangely that's not helping me get an idea of them.
Lommy, Fea and Rikae - well, I'd always be watching you girls closely... the most suspicious of you three right now, to me, is Fea.

Then there's the no-shows - McCaber, Shasta and Gwath. I think its best to leave them for now, they can die with their lovers, if they are guilty.

So, on to the ones I am finding most suspicious right now.

Legate is just being weird.

There's a group of semi-participants that I'm feeling uncomfortable about: Groin, Sally and Eonwe. Groin gives a kind of semi-analysis of a handful of players, leaving lots of people out...Sally is giving an impression of being cheerful and breezy but doesn't have the sincerity of innocence, and Eonwe's ingenue act is not quite sincere either.

And as for Aganzir's hyperactivity...could be due to a number of reasons. One thing I wondered is the mention of a Basilisk in Di's old rules post. Is Agan trying to get dreamed of, or lynched, for some nefarious purpose of her own?

My real problem is that usually I go by helpfulness as a way of distinguishing innnocence but in this game the baddies will all be very helpful, catching rival baddies. Sigh.

[Aganzir]

If I'm a lover then our dear Moddess thought it would be hilarious not to tell me who my counterpart was.
What in the world makes me think you want to be honest? ;)

edit: xed with Lal

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

She has played if not more games than I have but definitively she's been around for a longer period. But I've played a quite a few games myself as well, also with lovers, but I don't recall a game were the lovers would be blind to each other (I may be wrong though and wish to be corrected in that case).

I've played in a lot of games, but you may have not noticed that I consign myself to 'old school' games with just wolves, a seer, and maybe a ranger or something. I hate the confusion. I've never played a lovers game before, hence my apparent idiocy.

[Macalaure]

This comment of Mac's doesn't sit right with me and makes me more inclined to vote for him instead. It's wolfish.
No, it's not. Yes, you stated your suspicion of Rikae before, but #103 looks a lot like a wolf (or lover thereof) trying to get a bandwaggon rolling without getting her fingers too dirty.

I don't like how Mac's hesitating whether or not to suspect people who suspect him - or so it seems to me.
It is beyond me how it seems to you that way. I never seriously suspected Rikae. I suspected you in a bantering way in the beginning, thought you innocent-ish thereafter, and only increased my suspicion now that you started posting wolvish things. No hesitation whatsoever.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What in the world makes me think you want to be honest? ;)

Touchè.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, maybe I'm paranoidly self-centered, but I don't like Mac's suspicion of me because it seems so... easy. He often suspects me, and he's generally been quite good at reading me. This time, he jumps on me all too easily. It looks like an evil Mac who has found a good culprit - someone he often suspects (won't raise eyebrows) and someone he is reputedly rather good at reading (might persuade people to agree with him).

There have been interesting points against Groin and Kitanna. I'm inclined to agree but I'd rather reread and see for myself. The only problem is that it's rather late here...

I find it fascinating that first there's this wave of votes and suspicion against Rikae, and then there comes a huge wave of defending her. Makes me raise my eyebrows.

I'm not comfortable with the general focus of suspicions at the moment (almost exclusively me, Rikae, Aganzir, and Lommy). Too many people got by without anybody noticing. Please, have a closer look at things each of you. There's an incredible number of submarines right now.Ooh Mac says something I totally agree with! :p

Let's see... How about electromagnetic wave equations?Wikipedia says: "The electromagnetic wave equation is a second-order partial differential equation that describes the propagation of electromagnetic waves through a medium or in a vacuum." and I can support this view 100%. ;)

I'm entertaining myself with the thought of Mac and Agan being lovers... :Merisu:

Lastly, I don't like the fact that I suspect Mac and Rikae probably the most at the moment. I haven't played with them for ages and I love playing with them so I don't really want to see them go early... *grumblegrumblegrumble*


edit: xed with Agan's #125 and everything after that...

[Aganzir]

It is beyond me how it seems to you that way. I never seriously suspected Rikae. I suspected you in a bantering way in the beginning, thought you innocent-ish thereafter, and only increased my suspicion now that you started posting wolvish things. No hesitation whatsoever.
Hmph the thought of you suspecting me just stuck in my head. But what are these wolfish things you are referring to?

edit: xed with Lommy

[Eönwë]

I've played a quite a few games myself as well, also with lovers, but I don't recall a game were the lovers would be blind to each other
They wouldn't really be lovers then, would they?
More a sort of secret admirer.

edit: x-ed since Fea #128

[Macalaure]

Hmph the thought of you suspecting me just stuck in my head. But what are these wolfish things you are referring to?

Your reaction to the two votes for Rikae and in particular your reaction to my criticism of it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I just skimmed the entire thread again to find the post in which Legate gives his reasons to suspect me as strongly as he does. I did not find it. Would you help me out, Legate? Either I completely overlooked it (I really hope I didn't - that'd be embarrassing), or I finally have a valid reason to suspect you.

Now looking through my posts, to my embarassment I see I really have not been voicing that much, but I have been thinking about it from very early in the game, since this post:

Mac - joins the general joking around, but does not forget to put a quite lengthy helpful summarisation of our situation (with putting the emphasis on "our" as innocents). That might be a preventive behavior by which he is trying to prove that he is "normal", even though he is a Werelover actually.

This was the first mentioning, and since that time, I had you marked as suspicious, and I kind of counted with the fact that you are No.1 on my list, and everything I saw just made me affirm that. Then I said this:

I am not feeling anything especially strange about Rikae, and I have not been paying much attention to their exchanges (rather because I am really not the one for deep analysis of these exchanges), but Mac at least seemed weird to me from the beginning, and I have him marked as one to eventually vote for.

Which was quite plain, if nothing else. And since then you may have counted on that. You were just behaving all the time along the lines "I am your friend, people of Congo", the way you spoke to and about Rikae... okay, although now after reading all that again, you don't seem as suspicious to me as you did before. However there is my problem - I often reevaulate, and either for good or for bad of the concerned person, after re-reading. But now the question is whether I should take heed to this reevaluation and not rather stay behind my former opinion, for which I had some grounds.

Is it just me, or has everyone just said- "Vote me and you're evil"?
Not everybody, but I wonder if it is me who is stupid or the others around here.

Okay, maybe I'm paranoidly self-centered, but I don't like Mac's suspicion of me because it seems so... easy. He often suspects me, and he's generally been quite good at reading me. This time, he jumps on me all too easily. It looks like an evil Mac who has found a good culprit - someone he often suspects (won't raise eyebrows) and someone he is reputedly rather good at reading (might persuade people to agree with him).

There have been interesting points against Groin and Kitanna. I'm inclined to agree but I'd rather reread and see for myself. The only problem is that it's rather late here...
The problem, darling, is that you raise your eyebrows at many things and go on with many things that the crowd does, yet otherwise behaving un-conflictingly (no suspicions of your own production, so to say). I cannot say I really like that... starting to suspect Mac coming from defending yourself makes me raise eyebrows a bit.

EDIT: x-ed since Lommy

[Aganzir]

Your reaction to the two votes for Rikae and in particular your reaction to my criticism of it.
I reacted to Rikae votes the way I did because I suspect her and rather vote for someone who has already a few votes than a suspect of mine who doesn't have at all.
I can see why you think my reaction to your criticism looks wolfish, but then on the other hand so does your criticism itself. You know I'm an intuitive player more than a rational one, and something in that post is bugging me.

Are you sure you didn't criticize me just because I said I'd actually prefer voting you?

edit: xed with Legate

[Eönwë]

Lastly, I don't like the fact that I suspect Mac and Rikae probably the most at the moment. I haven't played with them for ages and I love playing with them so I don't really want to see them go early

I definitely agree with you there... even if you are suspicious (and silly:p)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As this debate is getting confusing, and I started to question myself about voting Mac, I am now starting to think more and more about voting Groin instead. But then, is one post really enough grounds? Otherwise, there will be for example Kitanna... but that is rather this Mac-defense thing, so I would rather vote Mac and see if she goes as well.

Huh. So hard to choose.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post, not that it changes anything...

[Eönwë]

Ok, let's do votes (not many, but...):

Eomer: Rikae
Kitanna: Rikae (2)
Greenie: Groin

I think that's it. It just helps for me to see them all in one place.

[Aganzir]

As this debate is getting confusing, and I started to question myself about voting Mac, I am now starting to think more and more about voting Groin instead. But then, is one post really enough grounds? Otherwise, there will be for example Kitanna... but that is rather this Mac-defense thing, so I would rather vote Mac and see if she goes as well.
While that post of Groin's is suspicious, it doesn't sound so untypical to him that it would necessarily indicate guilt. Therefore at least I would rather vote someone I suspect more, and see what to do with Groin later when he has had a chance to post more.

[Eönwë]

I should probably sleep, but I haven't got any good ideas yet.

What makes it harder is I'm afraid to accuse a gifted.

[Nogrod]

I still think the basic idea fits and there are three or four lover-pairs of which one is an innocent and another is a baddie (whatever weresalmon or wererhinoceros they are). Di said there might be adjustments, but not that there would be a total overhaul of the lovers game.

That means many baddies (and innocents with evil intent) will attack other baddies (and innocents with evil intent) as they both don't know about each other and because they wish to do away with the others.

That's all for the village to gain!

And even if we go "Hoy Bresil" -style the individual wolves would easily go after the lover of a buddy-wolf. Although Di said there are no wolves in this game which kind of confirms to me the first interpretation...


So we must also read the Days after this one a bit differently than we are used to. The normal patterns do not hold. And hopefully the carnage of the next Night will actually teach us something about the build-up of this game.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

"Hoy Bresil" -style

Hoy Bresil...?

[Eönwë]

What worries me is that there is a significant number of evil people, and if they do know each other, as has been suggested, then they might be enough to shift the votes. Now that it scary.
If not, then we might get lots of votes for different people (the lovers probably trying not vote the same as their other half) on the later days. This could mean that potentially anyone could change the lynchee.

We shall see how it turns out.





And now Nogrod seems to talk sense...

[Thinlómien]

I reread the whole thread with no apparent results. :rolleyes:

This caught my eye though:Eonwe ~ another one who's being too niceToo nice? I think he's rather been suspecting everyone. One more point against Mac?

And now I'm toying with the idea of lover pairs of Mac&Fea (he could really pull it off declaring her innocence like that) and Legate&Agan (they're a bit too careful in their interaction).

I'm a little tempted to vote Eomer for submarineishness in case he won't reappear.

Greenie strikes me as pretty innocent even though I really don't understand why does she always suspect me on Day1.


edit: xed with Legate's #138 and onwards...

[Eönwë]

Hoy Bresil...?

Hoy Bresil...?

Others: "Hoy Bresil...?"

Nogrod: It's only a model.

All: Shh!

[Lalaith]

Guys, don't you listen to your Moddess, or you trying to be deliberately confusing?
But I do feel moved to note that there are no "Werewolves." This is a "Lovers" game
That's what she says in the Admin thread. So, no, no Hoy Bresil.

Oh, and I am also now even more slightly suspicious of Fea's veracity, when I see that she is claiming to "hate confusion."

[Aganzir]

If not, then we might get lots of votes for different people (the lovers probably trying not vote the same as their other half) on the later days.

Why? I see no problem with them doing that.

And now I'm toying with the idea of lover pairs of Mac&Fea (he could really pull it off declaring her innocence like that) and Legate&Agan (they're a bit too careful in their interaction).
Yeah, we both are so loyal to you, aren't we Legate my love? :Merisu:
Mac & Fea pair occurred to me as well.

edit: xed with Lal

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh, and I am also now even more slightly suspicious of Fea's veracity, when I see that she is claiming to "hate confusion."

Why do you think I only ever play really simple games and mod the nutty ones? I need everything to be obsessively laid out in front of me for me to function on a human level. I don't do so well dealing rationally with too many variables. I'd have skipped this game entirely if I didn't so badly want Di to play in my upcoming game- which is, in fact, going to be rather insane. [/shameless advertising]

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

While that post of Groin's is suspicious, it doesn't sound so untypical to him that it would necessarily indicate guilt. Therefore at least I would rather vote someone I suspect more, and see what to do with Groin later when he has had a chance to post more.
Indeed, I'd wait for him to post more too, however, what I thought was of course that it would be typical of him, but that's exactly the point. I said "that's something which a WereGroin could do" - doing something that would go well with his general behavior, but simply using it to his advantage. Nevertheless, yes, probably better to let him post more and then see what to make out of it.


I still think the basic idea fits and there are three or four lover-pairs of which one is an innocent and another is a baddie (whatever weresalmon or wererhinoceros they are). Di said there might be adjustments, but not that there would be a total overhaul of the lovers game.

That means many baddies (and innocents with evil intent) will attack other baddies (and innocents with evil intent) as they both don't know about each other and because they wish to do away with the others.
Hey, wait, wait, I didn't get it probably in that case. My original thought was that there were (at least in the previous game) simply four or how many pairs of lovers, but in fact, it was more like that they were (technically) four teams of wolves by two, whose fates were entwined. Because otherwise, it has no sense to say that one of the lovers is an ordo and the other is a baddie, since they both pick a kill, and kill somebody, not? Or how is that? I don't get it.

EDIT: x-ed since Eönwë before Lommy

[Eönwë]

Why? I see no problem with them doing that.

I edited *gasp* my post to make it understadable. Well, not really edited. Just added a bit.

Basically, my point is that because the posts are so spread out, a groou of misguided villagers or one dtermined couple could change the fate of the village.

[Thinlómien]

The problem, darling, is that you raise your eyebrows at many things and go on with many things that the crowd does, yet otherwise behaving un-conflictingly (no suspicions of your own production, so to say). I cannot say I really like that... starting to suspect Mac coming from defending yourself makes me raise eyebrows a bit.I assure you, if I was a wolf I would have fabricated some nice little suspicion of my own in order to look better. And I know I'm just raising my eyebrows at stuff, but really, what else could I do if a lot of things look a little suspicious to me but nothing really looks mightily suspicious? :rolleyes:

And as for all this "Hoy Bresil" stuff, wasn't the game actually called "Hy Brazil"? :p;)


edit: xed with Agan, Fea, Legate and Eönwë

[Eönwë]

Indeed, I'd wait for him to post more too, however, what I thought was of course that it would be typical of him, but that's exactly the point.

Yes, last time we (well not me) killed him before he even had a chance to say anything. At least let him defend himself.

Then again, we only account for the first half of toDay. We (or at least I) won't be able to finalise anything

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yeah, we both are so loyal to you, aren't we Legate my love? :Merisu:
Of course :p

Mac & Fea pair occurred to me as well.

Not to me, unless I had to reevaluate Dr. Huhlenstein's fifty-three laws on how things look and what they are.

I assure you, if I was a wolf I would have fabricated some nice little suspicion of my own in order to look better. And I know I'm just raising my eyebrows at stuff, but really, what else could I do if a lot of things look a little suspicious to me but nothing really looks mightily suspicious?
Yes, well. But sure you don't mind if I raise my eyebrows and find you a little suspicious ;)

And as for all this "Hoy Bresil" stuff, wasn't the game actually called "Hy Brazil"?
And I always thought it was Huy Braseal...

[Nogrod]

Hoy Bresil...?Gah... :o

Okay.

I'm a bit suspicious of Kit's way of defending Mac.

I'm a bit suspicious of Sally's way of posting.


That I have said already.


I'd like to add the following.

Eomer's self-assured vote-post (the only one he made) bothers me a lot.

With Groin I have a problem of separating a possible blatant chauvinism out from a possible mischievous link to Legate in this game. :)


Fea's explanations about more time in hand and playing the old-school games is enough for me, toDay at least. She has been very reasonable toDay.

The same (reasonableness) goes for Lalaith and in a way to Brinn as well.


So a slight reason to vote:
Kit
Sally
Eomer

A slight reason to vote for being a submarine, hopefully in a pair:
McCaber
Shasta
Gwath

Of the disputed talks of the town toDay I'd prefer leaving Agan and Rikae alive toDay.

I'm very much at loss with Mac, Legate and Lommy. There are reasons why I should vote each and every one of them but I'm afraid they all are not baddies - God forbid they are! But what I said about the probable dynamics of this game we'll be much more informed toMorrow - and I really think we should have those who talk around rather than those who give us no food for thought and only need to be guessed at in random...

That said, I'm going to sleep and will try to wake up early enough to read & vote in the morning before the deadline.

EDIT: X'd after Fea's Hoy Bresil remark...

[Lalaith]

Ok, my Downs clock right now says 10.29pm. How long til deadline? I'm confused.

[Aganzir]

Well to be honest I only thought they could be a couple because Fea looked like she could possibly be someone's lover and Mac labelled her innocent to straightforwardly. Apart from that I haven't really had a look at their communication with each other, and won't do it now since I don't have time.

I'm planning to vote soon and think I could go for Mac.

edit: xed with Nog & Lal

[Aganzir]

With Groin I have a problem of separating a possible blatant chauvinism out from a possible mischievous link to Legate in this game.
:D:D:D
Nog I love you! Let's get married!

Ok, my Downs clock right now says 10.29pm. How long til deadline? I'm confused.
About eight hours I think. We go by real time.

[Macalaure]

I'm rapidly losing my ability to think, so here's the last of mine for today:

I don't know what to do with Legate, but I'll give him the benefit of doubt for today. He admitted that he had not much against me and reconsidered his suspicion, but only pedalled back a little bit. It sounded somewhat honest.

You were just behaving all the time along the lines "I am your friend, people of Congo"

Eh? :confused:


I'm afraid Legate and Aganzir have to share my benefit of doubt. There seems to have been a bit of a mutual misunderstanding.

Are you sure you didn't criticize me just because I said I'd actually prefer voting you?

Umm, yes?


One more point against Mac?

I don't know. Is it? You found it, you should know...

...but you decided to give your point in the form of a rhetorical question, and I think that's a rather wolvish way to suspect someone.

I was likely going to vote for you before, and that little thing just tipped the scales.

++Thinlómien


In the case I'm no longer alive tomorrow, look at the people flying under the radar more - especially Brinn and Eomer come to mind right now.

[Eönwë]

Ok, my Downs clock right now says 10.29pm. How long til deadline? I'm confused.

By your Downs clock, I think it would be 6.26am

edit: x-ed with this page

[Nogrod]

Hey, wait, wait, I didn't get it probably in that case. My original thought was that there were (at least in the previous game) simply four or how many pairs of lovers, but in fact, it was more like that they were (technically) four teams of wolves by two, whose fates were entwined. Because otherwise, it has no sense to say that one of the lovers is an ordo and the other is a baddie, since they both pick a kill, and kill somebody, not? Or how is that? I don't get it.You're right that technically they are four duettos of baddies. But remember that there is a difference in calling the other one innocent as s/he's the one the possible seer sees as an innocent.

Now was this a tactical trick by Legate or was he just innocently confused? :rolleyes:

EDIT: X'd from Lalaith onwards...

[Eönwë]

Ok, I'm going now. I'll try to back by DL, but I'm not promising anything.
Since I have no idea then I'll just go randomly with:

++Legate

[Thinlómien]

Yes, well. But sure you don't mind if I raise my eyebrows and find you a little suspiciousI'm only offended by people suspecting me when I'm a wolf. ;)

I'm planning to vote soon and think I could go for Mac.I should vote soon too. *sigh* I'm thinking about Mac or Eomer, or maybe even Rikae after all... but somehow, none of those choices feels right. :rolleyes:


edit: xed with Mac, Nogrod and Eonwex2

[Eönwë]

I'll just leave with this message:


Hello to all you people on the other side of the Atlantic!

[Thinlómien]

I don't know. Is it? You found it, you should know...
...but you decided to give your point in the form of a rhetorical question, and I think that's a rather wolvish way to suspect someone.So I'm evil because I'm unsure? Fishy logic...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You're right that technically they are four duettos of baddies. But remember that there is a difference in calling the other one innocent as s/he's the one the possible seer sees as an innocent.

Aaah yes, okay, that makes sense then. But the question is: do we actually even have a Seer? I would presume so, but not much of a chance for him to survive for long, I'd say...

Anyway, in general, my thoughts on people:

Aganzir an ordo: vocal, hard-working, making sense. No problem with her.
Brinniel radaaaar!
Eomer he seems like an okay guy. If it's just a mask of Superman under which there is in fact a... Batman... is hard to say.
Eönwë hard to say
Fea makes sense, innocentish
Gollum nuzzing
Greenie seems innocent, and as far as I remember evil Greenies, she does not look like one.
Groin besides not having much of his own opinion to present, and that thing we mentioned, we'll see
Gwath ...
Kitanna I don't like her somewhat; there is this Mac-defense thing, at moments she has been better, but sometimes again not.
Lalaith nuzzing
Lommy slightly suspicious
Mac I am not really sure now, but I am still keeping an eye on him
McCaber ...
Nogrod I am not really sure, but he looks like usual ordo-ish Nogrod, except for some moments, when he seems a bit off-track to me. But nothing big in particular.
Rikae seems more innocentish to me than not
Sally could be either
Shasta ...

[Nogrod]

Nog I love you! Let's get married!In an instant... wasn't that what we were here for in the first place? :D

Since I have no idea then I'll just go randomly withThis always makes me soo uneasy!!!

[Aganzir]

So I'm evil because I'm unsure? Fishy logic...
Actually I think Mac had a valid point there. It's just so often that baddies ask rhetorical questions - while not real accusations, they leave a bit bad feeling about the person in question, and the one who first asked them can hide easily by saying "I just thought aloud, it's not my problem these people carried it on and lynched an innocent!"

I'm going to take a shower now and be back to vote then.

edit: xed with Leg & Nog

[Gwathagor]

:eek::eek::eek:

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...

Great. Well...I guess I'd better start reading. I'll see you all....in a few hours.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This always makes me soo uneasy!!!

What am I supposed to say... ;)

Though no, actually, this did not make me uneasy... yet. Had he been doing it all the time, that would be something different... (although I would prefer to know some grounds for the vote, at least... at least a bit... sure he did not just roll a 19-sided dice)

[Thinlómien]

Actually I think Mac had a valid point there. It's just so often that baddies ask rhetorical questions - while not real accusations, they leave a bit bad feeling about the person in question, and the one who first asked them can hide easily by saying "I just thought aloud, it's not my problem these people carried it on and lynched an innocent!"Well, maybe, but both you and Mac should know that I do have the habit of thinking aloud (including questions).

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...
Heehee, poor Gwathie. :p Nice to see you around. :D


edit: xed with Legate

[Nogrod]

What??? FIVE PAGES?!?! I thought Day One started tomorrow...
Great. Well...I guess I'd better start reading. I'll see you all....in a few hours.Welcome to the Barrow Downs Werewolf! :rolleyes: :)

[Gwathagor]

Or then let's lynch Gwath. He's always a good choice.



Har har.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Har har.

Now I would stop that if I were you; there's five pages in front of you and if you are going to stop like that by every post, you are not going to finish reading even the first page in these eight hours that remain till DL... ;)

[Thinlómien]

I've got to go now.

I'm going to give Mac the benefit of doubt whether that's wise or not.

++Eomer

Because he has only posted once, joined a bandwagon-ish thing, said little and probably won't be coming back.

Not very innocentish, not to speak about being constructive.


edit: xed with Legate

[Aganzir]

In an instant... wasn't that what we were here for in the first place? :D
Yes. There are some people who claim we can't pair up if we didn't do it in the very beginning, but who's going to listen to them?

Har har.
:)

[Aganzir]

I think Lommy's vote is made with possibly the worst grounds thus far. Not that Eomer looked very innocent, but he definitely didn't look that suspicious either.

Although there had been some suspicion on Rikae, Eomer was the first to vote her. And so what if he's not coming back today?

He could have given some reasoning for his vote, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it "not innocentish".

I was fairly sure I'd vote for Mac but now I actually feel more like voting Lommy.

edit: I forgot to mention I'll hang around still for a short while now and cast my vote then

[Lalaith]

Right, it's bedtime for me.


I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.
Then there are Groin and Sally, who worried me earlier. (Eonwe too, although he is now worrying me less.)

Well, I will go for
++LEGATE

[Aganzir]

++Lommy

Votes

Eomer: Rikae
Kitanna: Rikae (2)
Greenie: Groin
Mac: Lommy
Eönwë: Legate
Lommy: Eomer
Lalaith: Legate (2)
Agan: Lommy (2)

11 still to vote.

If I die, either by lynching or in the night, I hope you don't forget Lommy (if she's alive), or Mac, Rikae or Fea. Or Groin.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.

And care to explain what do you mean by "what is ***** up to"? What does it mean "his posts feel so odd"? I mean, what kind of a reasoning is that? "I am going to vote Lalaith. Her posts are yellow and taste of cinnamon." Sure you won't accept that kind of a reasoning???

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Lalaith]

All right, to be clearer: my suspicions are often directed at those who I feel are being confusing, possibly deliberately so, and for a purpose. Is that better?
Now I really must go to bed, I am tired and will start getting confused even more easily. If I am still here after toNight, I bid you au revoir and au demain, dear Lonely Hearts.

.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I guess this is the time to vote for me. Hmm... I was thinking. And thinking. And thinking. And somehow fear that if I don't do one thing, I will end up dead. But then what if... I could as well vote Lalaith after her last outright rude vote for me, or Kitanna to try that Mac-theory by another means, and also because of her really suspicious vote. I don't feel like voting Mac that much anymore.

I don't want to vote Lommy, as I am afraid of a bandwagon. And okay, okay, also because I am afraid that she may be innocent after all. But what then? Of all the people she seems the best choice, unless I were to vote for some of those named above.

I could vote for one of the quiet ones just because of that. I could vote sally-happy-go-lucky. Now wouldn't that be a good choice?

It actually would. Whoever posts some two posts like that (no substance) is well enough suspicious to me, of course it is sally who does that often, but still, too much for slipping under the radar. But then, sally may yet show up before the DL... so it will be pretty rash to vote for her now. Let's see what she does tomorrow (if I am here still).

I am just horrible, am I? Okay. Kitanna. Hmh. Lommy. Hmh. I am going to toss a coin...

Darn. Tails. That's Kitanna. I just now recalled how Nog said that one learns which choice he'd prefer only after tossing the coin. Quite. Had there been heads, it would have been far easier for me to vote Lommy. But maybe that's just what I think now and it will be exactly the other way around.

But okay, whatever. Let's see. If I am alive, there are other Days to go. And mainly, I can't possibly think now for a counterpart for Lommy...

++Kitanna

Vote well, people, and hope to see you toMorrow.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, that was a LOT of WW to try to digest at a single go. :(

As far as I can tell, the most attention has been directed at Rikae, Mac, Thinlomien, Aganzir, and Legate. Of these, I initially found Mac most suspicious, because I agreed that his responses to Rikae really did seem jumpy. Of course, as was pointed out, this is not a sure sign of guilt, since innocents can often respond in a defensive or jumpy manner. I've done it before.

Well, I have a headache from reading too much. I'll take a break and try to come back with something more helpful later on.

[Gollum the Great]

Hmmm... I'd better think this over...

Legate, Eomer, Eonwe, Groin, Green, Sally, Gwath, Brinn, Kitanna, Mac, and Nogrod seem fairly innocent.

I am slightly wary (but not suspicious) of Rikae (her reasons for mistrusting Mac didn't have much by way of a foundation), Aganzir (too excited), Lommy (she always bears watching, but I have little say beyond that).

Lal and Fea-not sure and too tired to spend time evaluating.

Shasta and McCaber- Nothing to speak of.

[Gollum the Great]

I'm going to make vote soon.... and unless something happens to sway my choice I thinking of Agan.

[Rikae]

Okay, I guess this is the time to vote for me.
Well, if you say so, although I don't find you all that suspicious... :p

Heh, there's nothing quite so convenient as going after someone who says she won't be back for a while, eh, Lommy?
I'm inclined to think Eomer was just attempting to stir the pot with an unexplained vote for a vocal player, but the way Kitanna jumped on it looks fairly nasty to me, though, and Agan's threat to go along, without an actual vote, looks perhaps worse. (It seems she's trying to keep things moving in that direction while avoiding any commitment herself).

Regarding whether people might slip in a discussion of rules (yep, I'm going back to that, since I didn't get a chance to say more earlier), yes, it does happen - I've seen it happen - but that possibility went right out the window when Fea mentioned it (unless we have some incredibly careless baddies). It probably never was that much of a chance to begin with, considering that we probably have baddies just as worried about hiding from each other as hiding from us, but the meta-meta discussion was fun while it lasted, anyway. :D

Macalaure has not made himself one whit less suspicious in my eyes. However, because of his new signature & heartwarming defense of me, I don't think I can bring myself to vote for him toDay.
I'm sure that everybody thinks I'm so cold and calculating that the above couldn't possibly be true, and that I'm just looking for an excuse to back out of voting for him...
and I'm also sure that someone is going to call the above explanation "jumpy". That's the trouble with playing this game so much, though - you can predict the direction discussions will take, and it's tempting to do so. :D
Fact is, I truly don't have the heart to vote for him for those reasons, and besides, I have other suspects (who may well all be evil), and it's probably wise to reserve my vote in case I need to save myself, in any event.

And, Agan, what "points"?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

All right, kids, I know it's early. I can hear it already, "You're going to bed at 9:52? That's practically sunset!" But I'm going to do some homework in bed and I have no inclination to get back out of bed to vote.

So...

I'm thinking-

Agan blipped for me by reacting so strongly to the idea of positing theories. Yeah, I know we're not going to get any facts, but we might at least have ended up with a better idea of possibilities than if we're all stumbling around without communicating. But then throughout the day she sort of quit blipping by maintaining her stance- so now it seems like she just legitimately thought it wasn't a profitable idea, not that she was really hiding anything.

Mac blipped my radar quite powerfully. But I think it's because I'm so paranoid he's going to slip my notice like the last game we were in. I'm willing to vote for him, I think. But I'm not sure on anything, really.

Nog seems innocent, and Lommy didn't set off any alarms. Eomer seems innocent as well, though if he's not more active tomorrow (if he lives through the night) I'll try to kill him off on principle: quiet players are a waste of village space. Rikae is blipping a bit, but it might just be reactionary to other people's suspicions and I'm not willing to vote until I'm sure.

Okay...


++MAC


because I'm sleepy and of everybody in the village thus far today, he's tweaked me out most.

[Gollum the Great]

May as well get this over with, though I've changed my mind.

++Lommy

I can't bring myself to trust her.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Argh, five pages to read. Must you really? :mad:

Lucky me, I have a chance to read because there's three hours to the deadline. :D

Hi guys.

[Brinniel]

Really, must you all be so talkative? :p I'm actually thankful for the silence because now I can post without x-ing with a gazillion people.

All Day I've been reading (or rather skimming) through the thread in between doing other things, but I didn't have time to get a word in edgewise. Even now I still have homework to do, but I'll procrastinate for the sake of WW :D

But geez, there's so many posts to review, I don't know if I'll be able to catch up on it all. And I always play so horribly on the first Day; I don't post much because I never know what to post...which is probably why wolves always kill me so early. But with all this talking, surely I've gotta have something to say.

Let me go back to reread and collect myself....

[Brinniel]

Voting Count (for the record):

Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)

Have not voted yet: Groin, Nogrod, Brinn, Sally, Shasta, Gwath, McCaber

Okay, there are so many players in this game and there's simply not enough time to evaluate them all. The voting is spread out enough as it is, so for toDay I think I will focus most of my attention on those who have already been voted for..

[Gwathagor]

And care to explain what do you mean by "what is ***** up to"? What does it mean "his posts feel so odd"? I mean, what kind of a reasoning is that? "I am going to vote Lalaith. Her posts are yellow and taste of cinnamon." Sure you won't accept that kind of a reasoning???


I don't know, Legate...if Lalaith's posts actually tasted like cinnamon, I would become very suspicious indeed.

Still: intuition is as much a part of the game as logic, and always complements the latter.


So I thought I was going to vote for Macalaure, but I've discovered that only his very first couple of posts seem jumpy/defensive. His later posts don't, so I can't vote him in good conscience now. Better go read some more.

[Brinniel]

Rikae

#25
-Suspects Mac because 1) he's overconfident 2) Di wouldn't make them both ordos 3) she swore to get him lynched on Day 1

-Also comments on Lommy, Legate, and Eonwe

Okay, we know that part of that suspicion is joking...but is reason 2 included? Because I don't think that's a good reason to suspect anyone.

#35
-All of post is a response to Mac's previous post.

#36
-States that her suspicion towards Mac isn't entirely joking.

#44
-States that Mac tends to be jumpy regardless of role.

-Says she's okay with lynching quiet ones.

-Doesn't like Sally's rhetorical questions, but doesn't think it particularly suspicious.

#46
-Questions Aganzir's comment theorising about who the baddies are.

#49
-Comments on Fea's statement about people with roles accidentally spilling unknown information.

#54
-Thinks Mac, Aganzir, and Lommy are baddies.

#189
-About votes for her: Thinks Eomer was "stirring the pot," Kitanna's jump on it looked nasty, and Aganzir's threat looked worse.

-Comment that slips are possible, but probably won't happen now that Fea mentioned it.

-Still suspects Mac, but not sure she'll vote him. Says people will probably find her suspicious for that.

On the comments about the votes against her: A pretty typical response for anyone who's been voted for. Though let me note that I'm pretty sure Kitanna's vote x-posted with Eomer's.

Overall thoughts:

Rikae does seem to focus on Mac a whole lot, but that's nothing new. ;) But who can blame her when she knows his playing style best...

Anyways, while I find that first post about Mac a bit odd, there's nothing that looks terribly suspicious about her to me.

[Kitanna]

So far I have seen Kitanna defend Mac twice. Mac has been under pressure and Kitanna has really not stated any more elaborated reasons for her backing of him.


I haven't read a whole lot, just got home, but I saw this and thought I'd respond while I still have a chance. I just don't feel Mac is all that suspicious. I didn't see anything in his posts that pointed to him being a werelover, though depending on what has happened in the posts since I was on last could shift my opinion.

[Brinniel]

Groin

#27
-Banter about his promise to lynch Aganzir.

#31
-Compares Legate's behaviour to the previous game when he was a wolf.

I think Legate mentioned this, but remember he wasn't a wolf until his final Day.

#32
-States that Lommy's silliness is normal.

#43
-Says Legate is his usual self.

-Lommy is silly.

-Thinks Aganzir is trying to look like she's helpful, but her posts are full of petty arguments.

-No idea about Rikae.

Overall comments:

So far Groin hasn't said enough for me to form an opinion on him. He seems to be trying to add substance, but I would like to hear more.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

:rolleyes: Okay, I admit it, I took a timeout to watch a movie. I'm here now though, and have just read page 1.

*reads the rest, will form an opinion or two then*

I love this DL so much.

[Brinniel]

Lommy (has too many posts to analyse them all, so I'll only go over the highlights)

#28
-Thinks Aganzir looks rather innocent.

#33
-Comments that Mac seems a bit jumpy.

#42
-Doesn't think Mac's that suspicious.

-Call's Aganzir's comment about her speculation on gifteds jumpy.

#56
-Responds to Aganzir questioning her jumpy statement. Calls her defensive.

#81
-Analysis post- doesn't really have strong suspicions of anyone.

#88
-Says she's been a wolf so much lately, she's having trouble suspecting suspicious people. Needs to rewire her brain.

#134
-Doesn't like Mac's suspicions against her.

-Finds points against Groin and Kitanna interesting.

-Toys with the possibility of Mac and Aganzir as lovers.

#148
-Thinks of Fea and Mac and Legate and Aganzir as possible lovers.

-Considers voting for Eomer.

-Thinks Greenie looks innocent.

#166
-Considers voting Mac, Eomer, or Rikae.

#178
-votes Eomer for being a submarine

Overall comments:

Out of all her posts toDay, only two were lengthy. Most were one or two lines. Perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I remember her giving longer posts with more substance. I usual find her posts impossible to analyse because they have so much info. Lommy does a lot of flip-flopping; she can't seem to make up her mind about Mac or Aganzir. I don't really like her vote for Eomer...nothing looks too strange about his vote, at least not for Day One. Too often innocents have been lynched because they came, voted, and left.

[Gwathagor]

Ok,

++Fea

because I disagree with her about Mac. I don't think he's worth voting toDay.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Page 2 done. Thoughts:

It came from my head and the point is that there might be anything and we wouldn't get to know it so why speculate at all.


Awfully pessimistic of you.

Methinks Aganzir, Macalaure, and Lommy are all baddies of some sort.

Is it weird that I thought the exact same thing the moment I laid eyes on the game thread? Kind of a gut feeling. For what it's worth, I had the same feeling about Nogrod and Fea, too... :p

There seems to be some sort of odd relationship between Aganzir and Legate, as well. They're very... civil? toward each other.

On to the next level! ...Er, I mean, page!

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. Sorry, back now and need to catch up a bit.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Page 3 done. Thoughts:

Actually I think Fea could be a lover or something - the way she stubbornly sets out to defend the pros of rule discussion is odd, and especially taken to such lengths, it doesn't sound entirely honest.

I dunno, kinda sounds like regular Fea to me. :p

these fellows really better show up. This large number of silent ones is especially worrying since we are lacking modkill.

Phooey on you, Mac. :p I will probably be around at this time every day, for future reference.

Legate's #96 seems to strengthen the relationship between him and Aganzir, to my mind anyway.

Aganzir ~ too argumentative to be a wolf, methinks

Because we've never seen a bold, argumentative wolf. :rolleyes:

I think Eomer and Kitanna's vote immediately following him is kind of weird.

I think I'd prefer voting Mac over Rikae but since Rikae already has votes, I'm maybe a bit more inclined to add there one more.

This kind of screams baddie to me, to be honest. :/

A couple people evidenced worry about a "flood" of sudden Rikae votes. Last time I checked, two votes does not a flood make. Hee hee.

On to page 4...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Thoughts on Page 4.

Greenie's vote for Groin kind of came out of the blue, to me. Seemed like a throwaway vote.

I am now starting to think more and more about voting Groin instead. But then, is one post really enough grounds?

Yes, because we've all seen how well that works. *coughSixthcough* :rolleyes: Particularly alarming is that it came after Greenie's vote.

A slight reason to vote for being a submarine, hopefully in a pair:
McCaber
Shasta
Gwath

I'm starting to get a little tired of this. I live in the USA. I'm fairly sure McCaber and Gwath also live in the USA. Just because we don't live in Europe like the majority of the players does not mean we are submarines. I mean really now. :mad:

And now, page 5 (where I made my first entrance. The irony!)

[Rikae]

I can't stay awake any longer - I guess I'll just have to find out if I'm still alive when I wake up. :rolleyes:

About the point #2 - half serious. It is something that I thought about (not because of our strength as players, but because mods seems to love setting us against each other), but I didn't expect anyone else to take it seriously - except possibly Mac himself: I was interested in his reaction.

At any rate - the person I find most suspicious right now is Aganzir. I've suspected Lommy too, but I don't like to lynch her on Day One... plus, I double checked, and it seems Kit did crosspost with Eomer after all. Well, it may seem kind of useless now, but my intuition is pointing this way, and there are quite a few votes left, anyway, so:

++Aganzir

[Nogrod]

It's weird to be in a game of wererwolf at 7AM... :rolleyes:

Well I need to vote then.

++ Kitanna

I was getting more and more uneasy about voting Kit as I started to think she had just stated her gut feeling on Mac's innocense, but then her sudden reappearance only to defend herself felt like overdoing it. Not the least because there was only a reservation and a comment on a feeling - still she defended Mac twice when he was suspected a lot...

[Brinniel]

Legate (has even more posts)

#26
-Says Aganzir looks different

-Thinks Mac could be possible lover.

-Unsure about Fea.

-Sally seems normal.

-Kitanna's slipping under the radar.

-Eonwe doesn't say much.

-Lommy looks unusual in the beginning, but normal in the end.

#60
-Aganzir, Rikae, and Fea look innocent.

#92
-Thinks Rikae looks normal, considers Mac as a voting possibility.

-States that Lommy looks like she's trying to stay out of the spotlight while still contributing.

#96
-Agrees with Aganzir about Groin looking like he's trying to buddy up with him.

#105
-Admonishes Nogrod for his silence.

-Doesn't like everyone voting for Rikae.

#120
-Finds Kitanna suspicious for voting Rikae and finding Mac innocent.

#141
-Questions voting Mac and considers voting Groin or Kitanna.

#153
-Decides it'd be better to wait for Groin to post more.

#169
-Another analysis post..

#185
-Considers voting for Lalaith in retaliation.

-Decides not to vote Mac.

-Considers voting Sally for quietness.

-Considers voting Lommy, but hesistant.

-Flips a coin and votes Kitanna.

Overall comments:

Way too wordy, as usual. :p

Nothing jumps out to me in particular, though he does seem indecisive as ever (as does everyone else...it's Day 1 after all).

EDIT: X-ed with a bunch

[Nogrod]

I'm starting to get a little tired of this. I live in the USA. I'm fairly sure McCaber and Gwath also live in the USA. Just because we don't live in Europe like the majority of the players does not mean we are submarines. I mean really now. :mad:Don't get mad Shasta. What I said was said at that moment. Surely you are not such a submarine now...

Although fex. Rikae and Fea (among others) live in the US as well... :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Bah, really guys...you just keep spreading out the votes. :rolleyes:

A half an hour before deadline and I can't analyse them all by then. So perhaps I'll just start looking at the ones who have two or more votes. I don't know why I'm analysing anyway...it's too time consuming (though helpful).

[satansaloser2005]

Don't get mad Shasta. What I said was said at that moment. Surely you are not such a submarine now...

Although fex. Rikae and Fea (among others) live in the US as well... :rolleyes:

*pipes up* And me. Thanks for that. (Kidding, kidding)


Really sorry. I kind of dozed off. Another quick skim and I'm ready though.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Thoughts on pages 5 and 6 (and a vote count, oh my!)

Lommy's vote for Eomer strikes me as in the same vein as Greenie's vote for Groin, but in a better light, for some reason.

I could vote for one of the quiet ones just because of that.

Again, annoying.

May as well get this over with, though I've changed my mind.

++Lommy

I can't bring myself to trust her.

Could you explain this? It seems to me that you're voting someone you've "changed your mind on"; ergo, you think she's innocent, but in the next breath you "can't bring yourself to trust her?" Can you see where I might be confused?

Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gwath: ++Fea (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1)
Rikae: ++Aganzir (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Nogrod: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)

I stole Brinniel's vote count and added all the votes after it in italics.

I haven't read a whole lot, just got home, but I saw this and thought I'd respond while I still have a chance. I just don't feel Mac is all that suspicious. I didn't see anything in his posts that pointed to him being a werelover, though depending on what has happened in the posts since I was on last could shift my opinion.


This doesn't strike me as a good defense at all...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Don't get mad Shasta. What I said was said at that moment. Surely you are not such a submarine now...

Although fex. Rikae and Fea (among others) live in the US as well... :rolleyes:

I'm not mad, Nog. It just irked me that so many people said id. :rolleyes: You were just unlucky number... three, I think.

Fea and Rikae live in the US??! :eek: Since when?! And why wasn't I informed?!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well and... hm. Lommy is in line to be executed, with three votes. I'm okay with that, but I think I'm more sure of Aganzir at this point.

++Aganzir

And in hindsight I should have known Fea lived in the US when she mentioned being quite happy with the deadline, thank you very much. :rolleyes: Shows how comprehensive I am past midnight sometimes.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd also like to point out that Gwath seems to be voting Fea in retaliation for voting Mac. Something to look into tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gwath: ++Fea (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1)
Rikae: ++Agan (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1, Agan 1)
Noggie: ++Kit (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Agan 1)



A couple votes that bother me.

Gwath-->Fea. His reason is listed "because I disagree with her about Mac". Seriously? You don't agree with her so she's a wolf? Seems like fuzzy (aka furry) logic to me.

Rikae-->Agan. Just because it's spreading out the votes even more, and especially this close to the deadline. Trying to complicate things even more right before Sunset is just not cool, my dear.

So....since it's Day One (not saying that there's nothing to be gleaned, but those two votes are what jumped at me the most, actions louder than words and all that) I'm inclined to vote one of those two. But Gwath has no votes, and Rikae has two, so if I had to pick one of them I'd obviously go with her.

But....I still think Lommie's acting strangely. Like, I'm used to her being a tad....silly's not the right word, my apologies, bear with me....off or whatever you wish to call it, but it's almost as if she's taking the cute banter with Agan too far (at the beginning of the Day I mean) and after that....*looks at the time*


Post break to catch up.


EDIT: x'd since my last. And oh look, Shasta did a vote tally too. Lovely.

[Brinniel]

Kitanna

#14
-Found Mac and Aganzir's back-and-forth amusing.

#80
-Wants to take a better look at Lommy and Legate and those who suggested them.

-Wonders if Rikae's bluffing.

#90
-Feels better about Mac than Rikae.

#99
-Votes Rikae.

Overall comments:

Don't know why she seems so suspicious, she looks fine to me.

[satansaloser2005]

Well and... hm. Lommy is in line to be executed, with three votes. I'm okay with that, but I think I'm more sure of Aganzir at this point.

++Aganzir

And in hindsight I should have known Fea lived in the US when she mentioned being quite happy with the deadline, thank you very much. :rolleyes: Shows how comprehensive I am past midnight sometimes.

And again. ~15m to deadline and bringing another candidate up to a lynchable level. Bah.



I'll have to finish my thoughts on Lommie later/in a minute. I need to seriously consider who I'm voting for.


EDIT: x'd with Brinn

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I feel like my options are for Legate, Kit, Aganzir, or Lommy. I want to take a better look at Mac, but I'm running out of time.

Btw, my roommate's being awful to me again...so I have even less time in between talking to her. I better vote soon just in case...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Down to... Brinn, Sally, McCaber, and Groin, I think?

McCaber's probably not going to show up, and I'm not sure Groin is either.

[Brinniel]

Kitanna looks innocentish, Legate doesn't seem suspicious enough, and while I'd consider Aganzir, I haven't gotten a chance to analyse her...plus this sudden bandwagon is a bit fishy.

Therefore:

++Lommy

While I'm uncertain about her, she's the most suspicious of the four. Plus, she managed to fool me the last games and I can't let her get away with it this time.. :p

Boy do I hate Day Ones. My vote never feels concrete enough...

[Diamond18]

Deadline is in 5 minutes.

[satansaloser2005]

Down to... Brinn, Sally, McCaber, and Groin, I think?

McCaber's probably not going to show up, and I'm not sure Groin is either.


Maybe Cabbie didn't know the game started today? :rolleyes:


Nogrod: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)


Vote count stands as such (will edit to add if Brinn votes while I'm posting this)
Three Votes: Lommie
Two Votes: Rikae, Legate, Kit, Agan
One Vote: Groin, Eomer, Mac, Fea
No Votes: the rest of us :)


I'm not causing a tie and leaving it up to someone else. Between Rikae and Lommie I vote:

++Lommie

Sorry, sweetie. *hands you a stuffed penguin, then runs before you try to fillet the village*


EDIT: X'd with both Brinn and our moddess. Lommie now stands at five votes.

[Brinniel]

Without our European friends, it seems so strange for the burden to fall on just us on the other side of the Atlantic...

[satansaloser2005]

Without our European friends, it seems so strange for the burden to fall on just us on the other side of the Atlantic...




I know. It feels strange not running out in the middle of class to place my vote. Not that I've ever done that....:rolleyes:



Alternatively, I don't like how Agan suddenly came up less than an hour before deadline. (The votes for her, not Agan herself. Sorry, it's not that late I'm just a little more tired than usual. I'm going to shut up now, yeah?) It's sneaky and bordering on just-plain-furry. But I'll leave that for toMorrow's discussion.


Good Night, and to those of us who survive see you (hopefully) in the Morning.

[Diamond18]

Lommy will die. Narration in a short bit.

[Diamond18]

The Lonely Hearts Club had indeed descended into a lonely hotel full of distrustful people. Not romantic at all, despite the large number of endearments being bandied back and forth. No love was to be found this day, at least not on the surface, and at the end, one young lady by the name of Thinlomien was doomed to die.

Above it all, in a cloudy palace in the sky, was one who watched the goings on with delicious amusement and great hilarity. For it was she who had set out The Task which killed Diamond and disrupted the mortals. Venus, goddess of love, and orchestrator of mischief, took delight in every accusation and manipulation. In the end, her Lovers did well, for Lommy was no servant of Venus.

The Lonely Hearts tied up the young maiden and stabbed her though the heart. She slumped down and bled onto the floor, but no one among them shed a tear or stepped forward to caress her dying form. After a few awkward moments in which nothing momentous happened, they buried her in the garden and shuffled off to bed, exhausted.

But some among them, did not sleep....

It is now Night.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Aganzir
Legate
Kitanna
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Rikae
Mac
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eönwë
Lalaith
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)

[Diamond18]

The next morning at the Remote Romantic Retreat dawned sunny and clear. A perfect day for strolling through the garden, lounging on the beach, and getting to know the other singles. But, alas, such leisurely activities were not to be on the agenda for this day.

Two less Lonely Heart Clubmembers came down to the breakfast table that morning. Legate and Lalaith where each absent. They were found, later, each in their separate bedrooms, alone and dead in their lonely beds. Both had been stabbed through the heart, and their blood ran red, staining the sheets.

Let the paranoia commence.

The Living Lonely Hearts Club:

Groin
Aganzir
Kitanna
Gollum
Nogrod
Brinniel
Sally
Shasta
Gwath
Rikae
Mac
McCaber
Fea
Greenie
Eönwë
Eomer

Hearts Which Have Stopped Beating:

Diamond (Lonely Heart)
Lommy (Lonely Heart)
Legate (Lonely Heart)
Lalaith (Lonely Heart)

[Rikae]

Two deaths, and no mention of a ranger save. Can we hope that we only have two lover pairs among us? Two pairs against each other, as well as the rest of the village, would make for an unbalanced game, though.

As for Legate and Lalaith, the first thought that comes to my mind is that both look like classic wolf-kills - players who weren't much suspected, thus unlikely to be lynched, and who leave little trail... maybe there's more to it I'm missing, though.

Now, Sally - I'll have you know, dearie, I don't much appreciate what I see as attempts to intimidate and pressure me into conformity! I vote as I please, thank you very much, and I find the artificial narrowing of the field to the first few people with multiple votes a suspicious, or at least dangerous, move.
In this game, time zones are obviously a major factor. Americans (although not so much those of us on the east coast) are going to find it far easier to be around at the deadline. I don't think that means that we can suppose there is an evil conspiracy among Americans to vote without the rest of the village's input. :rolleyes:
(If there is, you're in on it! :p)
I don't find you suspicious just yet, love - only a bit misguided. Shasta may well be buttering me up - he seems to be following my suspicions a bit.
Well, I suppose we won't see much activity here until after I've gone to bed (even though I'm staying up far too late already for #$@# midterms...) - good night, USA, good morning, Europe, play nice and all that. ;)

[McCaber]

Sorry about Day 1, folks. Apparently things happen when I'm not paying attention.

And I missed six whole pages of discussion. Great.

I didn't glean too much from a quick first readthrough. Basically that Aganzir, Lommy, Mac,and Rikae talked a lot and suspected each other, with fatal results for Lommy.

Anyway, time to think, react, talk, and listen.

[satansaloser2005]

Two deaths, and no mention of a ranger save. Can we hope that we only have two lover pairs among us? Two pairs against each other, as well as the rest of the village, would make for an unbalanced game, though.

As for Legate and Lalaith, the first thought that comes to my mind is that both look like classic wolf-kills - players who weren't much suspected, thus unlikely to be lynched, and who leave little trail... maybe there's more to it I'm missing, though.

Now, Sally - I'll have you know, dearie, I don't much appreciate what I see as attempts to intimidate and pressure me into conformity! I vote as I please, thank you very much, and I find the artificial narrowing of the field to the first few people with multiple votes a suspicious, or at least dangerous, move.
In this game, time zones are obviously a major factor. Americans (although not so much those of us on the east coast) are going to find it far easier to be around at the deadline. I don't think that means that we can suppose there is an evil conspiracy among Americans to vote without the rest of the village's input. :rolleyes:
(If there is, you're in on it! :p)
I don't find you suspicious just yet, love - only a bit misguided. Shasta may well be buttering me up - he seems to be following my suspicions a bit.
Well, I suppose we won't see much activity here until after I've gone to bed (even though I'm staying up far too late already for #$@# midterms...) - good night, USA, good morning, Europe, play nice and all that. ;)



Can't stay and chat but I had to tell you. Your post just made my day. (Granted it's 1:30 in the morning so I haven't done much yet, but it amused me. How are you so perky at this time of night?)


Sorry. Off to write a paper, gorrammit. Back when I'm awake.


P.S. Lallie and Legate, especially the former. Bwah?


Discuss amongst yourselves!


EDIT: X'd with Cabbie. Mehbe. I'm not sure; I should have been paying more attention.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...so two more are dead. What does this mean? Do we only have two sets of lovers among us, or is it possible that two pairs chose the same kill?

Lalaith's death isn't terribly surprising...she didn't post a lot and left little tracks. Legate I'm more curious about. He had the second most amount of posts and was getting plenty of attention...so why kill him? Did they think he was gifted or perhaps even part of another team of lovers? Of the two, I think the former would be more likely...especially since I recall Legate speculating about gifteds.

Gah, it's late and I'm tired...but I'd like to look back at yesterDay before going to bed since I know by the time I return there'll be a whole slew of posts and I'll probably be kept plenty busy catching up.

EDIT: X-ed with everyone

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So for all the talk of absolute carnage, two are dead? That means there is either two teams of lovers, each with a kill; or one team of four lovers, and Diamond emerges as somewhat less interested in monogamy than I might have suspected. :p

Or another option that I'm not seeing right now. And I'm afraid I won't be around until much later as I have work... er, I mean, I'll be busying myself constructing romantic poesy.

If there are teams, do they all know who each other are? Then they could try setting each other up with the kills. But if they don't know their enemies then this line of speculation does the village no good (I think).

What may be more useful is playing the percentage game, in choosing those who were not involved with, say, Lalaith, and selecting a pair from the two of them. This assumes that Lalaith and Legate were killed to leave no trail, which is often agreed upon as being at least 'not a bad method'.

Ach, it still seems tricksome today.

As for my vote yesterday, Rikae got it spot on. Pot and stirring. That's all.

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry to pop back in, but I wanted to put this out there.



Just because there were two deaths and no ranger save doesn't mean there's only two teams of lovers. It's distinctly possible (at some point someone was discussing it) that if two/more teams pick the same person, only that one person dies (i.e. no repicks). Not to be a pessimist, but I thought it was worth mentioning.


I'm really off now. (My post originally said "they're were two deaths and no ranger kill doesn't mean they're only two....". So yeah, I'm going to bed when I get finished.)

[Brinniel]

The Voting:

Eomer: ++Rikae (Rikae 1)
Kitanna: ++Rikae (Rikae 2)
Greenie: ++Groin (Rikae 2, Groin 1)
Mac: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1)
Eönwë: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Eomer (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1, Eomer 1)
Lalaith: ++Legate (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 1, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Aganzir: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1)
Legate: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1)
Fea: ++Mac (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 2, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gollum: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1)
Gwath: ++Fea (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1)
Rikae: ++Aganzir (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 1, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Nogrod: ++Kitanna (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Shasta: ++Aganzir (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 3, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 2)
Brinn: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 4, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)
Sally: ++Lommy (Rikae 2, Groin 1, Lommy 5, Legate 2, Eomer 1, Kitanna 2, Mac 1, Fea 1, Aganzir 1)

Didn't vote: Groin, McCaber (am I missing anyone?)

Just because there were two deaths and no ranger save doesn't mean there's only two teams of lovers. It's distinctly possible (at some point someone was discussing it) that if two/more teams pick the same person, only that one person dies (i.e. no repicks). Not to be a pessimist, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Yes, it's something I mentioned as well and it's certainly a possibility (though in that scenario I would guess there are no more than three pairs). But of course, we don't know whether Di has something completely different up her sleeve...which is entirely possible..

Bah, I was going to do more than just paste the vote count but I'm so sleepy.. I think I'll just go to bed now and return to share my thoughts when my head is clearer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

One post before bed (and I'm only up this late because I was typing a rehearsal report!)

Legate and Lalaith. I'm not sure at all about the latter, but I have a strong suspicion the former was targeted in hopes that he was a Lover. :rolleyes:

As for Lommy, I wouldn't have guessed she was a plain old Lonely Heart. Guess I'm 0/1 as for right now, :p.

Good night (to my neighbors; good morning to those across the pond!)

[Eönwë]

Good night (to my neighbors; good morning to those across the pond!)
Good Morning!


As for the game...

Lalaith didn't really get say enough for there to be any trails there.

But then Legate was one of the most active. And if I remember correctly, he and Mac were at each others throats until quite late that Day (well, actually, more into the afternoon but we Europeans suffer from jet-lag on this island- for us it was late-ish). So in that case it could have been either Mac being very bold, and because its so obvious, thought no-one would suspect him, or more likely it could be someone framing him. Obviously I could be going down the completely wrong path, and maybe that's what the lovers want me to do.

[Eönwë]

Just adding the night phase bits to what Rikae did:

Day 1:

Eomer: Rikae (1)
Kitanna: Rikae (2)
Greenie: Groin (1)
Mac: Lommy [ordo] (1)
Eönwë: Legate [ordo] (1)
Lommy [ordo]: Eomer (1)
Lalaith [ordo]: Legate [ordo] (1)
Aganzir: Lommy [ordo] (2)
Legate [ordo]: Kitanna (1)
Fea: Mac (1)
Gollum: Lommy [ordo] (3)
Gwath: Fea (1)
Rikae: Aganzir (1)
Nogrod: Kitanna (2)
Shasta: Aganzir (2)
Brinn: Lommy [ordo] (4)
Sally: Lommy [ordo] (5)


Lynched: Lommy [ordo]

Night 1:

Killed: Lalaith [ordo], Legate [ordo]
Saved: ?


*= vote didn't count
+= thought/ knew vote didn't count
()= total votes for person that day so far
<>= total votes for person from an individual so far
[]= known status/ postion e.g. ordo

[Macalaure]

Only two deaths?

So that means that either we have only two pairs of lovers, or it just happened that some chose the same target. It could also be that the lovers are in some way impaired in the way their kill is carried out (4 couples that only get 2 kills?). Well, let's say we have two pairs lovers (or do we maybe have two teams of lovers?). I suppose they're still interested in eliminating each other as well as killing the seer (they probably don't know whether there's a seer either) and making the usual kills to improve their individual situation. That gives the intention behind the choice of the kills an additional dimension that should be considered.

We probably have no chance to accurately guess what the situation for the lovers is really like, because we have an evil moddess who came up with a scenario nobody is supposed to be able to guess. Hmph.

I think Rikae is too quick to discard the possibility that anything useful can be learned from Lalaith's and Legate's deaths. I will have a look at them later today.

I don't really like Eomer's post. His rule speculations sound very specific, and following Fea's idea yesterday that somebody who knows the rules might slip up when discussing them, this makes me wary. I'm not convinced of Eomer's percentage game, to say the least. He also explains his vote by simply agreeing with somebody else, which is the easiest way.


I'll be back later with some comments on what happened after I voted and thoughts on our kills.

[Rikae]

How are you so perky at this time of night?)
Coffee.
*yawn*

Legate I'm more curious about. He had the second most amount of posts and was getting plenty of attention...so why kill him?
An awful lot of the attention he was getting seemed to run along the lines of "Legate is smart and wise and all-good and all-knowing and we should bow down and worship him in grovelling admiration." as far as I could see.
Or, for another possibility, perhaps the lovers are hopeless romantics who thought he couldn't stand to live without Lommy? :D

I think Rikae is too quick to discard the possibility that anything useful can be learned from Lalaith's and Legate's deaths. I will have a look at them later today.
Probably true, studmuffin,, but that's all I was able to come up with - not to mention I generally don't believe a lot can be learned from kills.

I suppose it is possible we have three sets of lovers, and two picked the same person. A wacky idea suggested to me by the Venus scenario in the narration also was that the number of lover pairs might be increasing, somehow, and we could expect greater carnage in the nights to come. Now, that would be devilish - if that's not what Di's doing, perhaps I'll try it someday myself... ;)

[Aganzir]

I am slightly wary (but not suspicious) of Rikae (her reasons for mistrusting Mac didn't have much by way of a foundation), Aganzir (too excited), Lommy (she always bears watching, but I have little say beyond that).
You have to understand the way I am, mein Herr
A tiger is a tiger, not a lamb, mein Herr

Gollum, do elaborate to me how I am too excited.
Someone said on day 1 that I seemed jumpy and then you just came and repeated it. When I asked for reasons, you listed everything I had done by then; speaks much, accuses people &c...
And now, no real suspects, but you're slightly wary of people for poor reasons. Although I find Rikae suspicious myself, I think her reasons for mistrusting Mac were good enough. Besides just a moment earlier you had said you didn't understand why she was voted.
I myself can't see me as too excited. You, of course, have never played with me and don't know how I am, and therefore you should have no way of knowing if I'm excited or not. Was that the best you could come up with? Even if the person you were referring to as too excited was my top suspect, it wouldn't add anything to my suspicions of her. Sorry if I sound aggressive but that's the most stupid reason I have ever been suspected with.
Also you're wary of Lommy because she always bears watching?
It looks like you were just trying to go with the flow and pick up people you thought could be suspected later on. With weak grounds.

Agan's threat to go along, without an actual vote, looks perhaps worse. (It seems she's trying to keep things moving in that direction while avoiding any commitment herself).
It was not a threat, I was thinking aloud. I thought I said I'd prefer voting Mac but I could vote for you, too, since you already had votes so there would even be a chance I could contribute to the lynching of one of my main suspects although I had to vote so early. I changed my mind several times while time passed, but for the life in me I just can't see what's so suspicious in telling who I could possibly vote.

And, Agan, what "points"?
Hmm, I see that in the process of writing my thoughts down, they were reduced only to the following. In my opinion they were still a valid enough reason for suspicion, though.
However, Rikae's certainty that Mac has a role because she hasn't is strange. The point that Di wouldn't make them both ordos is just bad. There's a certain likelihood that two good players get a special role, but there are many others than Mac and Rikae as well - and who knows if the roles were selected randomly? In any case, it definitely isn't a point I would use against somebody, and to me it seems Rikae should know better, too. I don't find it that surprising that Lommy thought her accusations of Mac were a joke.

This kind of screams baddie to me, to be honest. :/
Then get earplugs.

About the point #2 - half serious. It is something that I thought about (not because of our strength as players, but because mods seems to love setting us against each other), but I didn't expect anyone else to take it seriously - except possibly Mac himself: I was interested in his reaction.
I am definitely not the best person to complain about half serious suspicions. Still, it would be so easy for a wolf to throw around random suspicion, get a great many different reactions from people and then say she was just testing the ice. "I didn't except anyone else to take it seriously" is in itself a veiled accusation against people who actually did.

A couple votes that bother me.

Gwath-->Fea. His reason is listed "because I disagree with her about Mac". Seriously? You don't agree with her so she's a wolf? Seems like fuzzy (aka furry) logic to me.

Rikae-->Agan. Just because it's spreading out the votes even more, and especially this close to the deadline. Trying to complicate things even more right before Sunset is just not cool, my dear.
It somewhat bothers me that those votes bother you. Of course I don't like being voted, especially if I'm not around to defend myself (not that Rikae or Shasta had any accusations against which I should have defended myself at that point, though), but (and I might be in the minority in this one, also) I think everybody should vote the person they suspect the most, no matter if it's close to the deadline or spreads out the votes. From Gwath I want to see more before judging him.

As for the kills, there's one thing I found worth noticing - they both were killed the same way (stabbed through the heart). I don't know if there's a team or if both/all pairs just decided to kill their victims like that, and I'm not going to speculate on it today, either. I just felt the need to point it out.

I wouldn't find it surprising if Legate was killed because of being suspected to be a lover. However, since we don't know how the killers work, I think we should be traditional and concentrate more on what the dead said than what they were possibly thought to be.

By the way, I always suspect Mac and Rikae. Always.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

*yawns*
...need coffee...

I wanted to stick my head in and say the following about In Game:

"While we don't know anything for certain, last night was highly beneficial in that some things are at least partially revealed to us which weren't before. For the number-of-Lover-pairs question, I'm willing to assume two pairs due simply to the low odds of multiple baddies picking the same kill on a Night One out of an almost full village."

and
more importantly, Out of Game:

"My Wednesdays have turned into a joke so you're unlikely to see me for the next twelve hours since I barely have time to eat much less play online. Do yourselves a favor and don't kill me while I'm gone."

[satansaloser2005]

*yawns*
...need coffee...

I wanted to stick my head in and say the following about In Game:

"While we don't know anything for certain, last night was highly beneficial in that some things are at least partially revealed to us which weren't before. For the number-of-Lover-pairs question, I'm willing to assume two pairs due simply to the low odds of multiple baddies picking the same kill on a Night One out of an almost full village."

and
more importantly, Out of Game:

"My Wednesdays have turned into a joke so you're unlikely to see me for the next twelve hours since I barely have time to eat much less play online. Do yourselves a favor and don't kill me while I'm gone."


*seconds the yawning* You know, I love college, I really do. It's just the classes and assignments that I hate. ;)



From Agan's last post, because it caught my eye. (How sad is it that I just scanned through for now and caught bits where people were talking to me. Heh I'll go back and look at everything again later.) I'm glad you don't mind getting voted, dearie -I'll remember it closer to deadline ;)- but it just struck me as odd not that the votes came that close to deadline, but that they introduced new candidates so close to deadline. Mostly it's the fact that it could have easily turned into a last-minute bandwagon and I hate those (for the most part). I'm sorry, I should have made that a bit more clear.


Anyway, final touches on paper. Not a morning person, me. Blah.


P.S. Oh, the theory that maybe Legate was killed because someone thought he was a lover? Very possible. The gifted theory's plausible too. I would think, though, that lovers (if there are more than one team) would want to get rid of their competition first (because then they'd be safe during the Nights) but at the same time I know that -hypothetically, o'course- if I was a wolf I would almost rather get rid of a seer than a fellow baddie. I don't know. I'm going to stop babbling. Sorry.

[Aganzir]

I'm glad you don't mind getting voted, dearie -I'll remember it closer to deadline ;)- but it just struck me as odd not that the votes came that close to deadline, but that they introduced new candidates so close to deadline. Mostly it's the fact that it could have easily turned into a last-minute bandwagon and I hate those (for the most part). I'm sorry, I should have made that a bit more clear.
Hey, I said I don't like being voted (but bringing in a new candidate close to deadline is not something I find particularly suspicious)! :p If it had turned into a last-minute bandwagon, I'd be dead and proven innocent now and you'd at least have something to analyse. Annoying as they might be, I refuse to believe nothing can be found out of them. Besides, what's really the difference between a bandwagon and a last-minute bandwagon? That the votee is not necessarily around.

I know that -hypothetically, o'course- if I was a wolf I would almost rather get rid of a seer than a fellow baddie. I don't know. I'm going to stop babbling. Sorry.
Well I don't know. If the seer dreams of you, you might still have a plenty of time to kill her since she probably doesn't come out after finding just one baddie. However, if another team chooses to kill you, you're dead that very night. If I was a baddie, I'd much rather get rid of the other baddies before throwing wild guesses about who the seer could be.

I'm getting a bad feeling of sally. The way she reacted to Gwath & Rikae's votes looks somehow so opportunistic. They were after all quite petty things, and somehow she seems to try to make them look bigger than they really are.

[Aganzir]

Lalaith plays so seldom that it would be quite evil to pick her as a random kill (which doesn't mean it couldn't have happened, though. It just seems more likely that there's some actual reason).

Her opinions on people from yesterday:
Innocentish: Nog, Mac, Brinn, and Eomer.
Didn't know what to think of: Gollum, Kitanna, and Greenie.
Didn't know what to think of, but bear watching: Lommy, Fea (the most suspicious of them, got even more slightly suspicious of her later on), and Rikae.
Weird: Legate.
Feels uncomfortable about: Groin (semi-analysis of a handful of players), sally (not sincere-looking), Eönwë (not sincere-looking).
Also wonders if I want to get lynched or dreamed of for some purpose of my own (no, I don't).

Then there are her last two posts which I rather quote here (only the important parts, though) than try to sum up.
I want to know what Legate's up to, his posts feel so odd, they aren't making sense to me at all. I also want to know what Agan is up to and I am getting more worried about Fea.
Then there are Groin and Sally, who worried me earlier. (Eonwe too, although he is now worrying me less.)
All right, to be clearer: my suspicions are often directed at those who I feel are being confusing, possibly deliberately so, and for a purpose. Is that better?
Now I don't know what to make of her attitude towards Legate. Was he attempted to frame (which failed when he got killed, too), is it a coincidence that they both were killed, do the baddies have a team? Dunno. It's also possible that whoever killed her wanted it to make look bad on me, but I find it less likely since to me it looks more like she was just curious of me rather than actually suspicious. It could also point at either Fea being a baddie and/or someone trying to frame her. Or Groin and sally, maybe even Eönwë. At least to me it isn't that difficult to think so since I suspect them all (with the exception of Eönwë) more or less. But still, you can never know if someone's death points at someone's guilt or a framing attempt.

I skimmed through Lal's posts but couldn't see anything that might have been interpreted as giftedness or evil intents. However, if she got something right, she might have been killed preventively - just in case she was the seer.

I wonder why I do this so often although it never helps me to find reasons why somebody could have been killed. However, I'm going to keep my eye on Fea, Groin and sally anyway.

By the way, just a thought - in a village of 19, how likely is it that there are four baddies, especially as it's possible to kill two for the price of one?

I can say it straight that although I have the energy to post much, I don't have the energy to go through Legate's posts and analyse the causes of his death. That's what one gets for being a flood-poster.

Okay I'm probably off for a while now.

[Gwathagor]

Good morning, I am awake, but I don't have time to post right now. I'll be back in a few hours.

[Kitanna]

So Lalaith and Lommy? Lalaith seems pretty obvious given her quietness. Legate though I believe, as others do, that he may have been believed to be another lover.

I'd like to look at Lommy voters, but by the time I'm able to get back on I'm sure it'll have been done many times. But I do have a whole list of people and things I want to look at so hopefully it won't all be covered later. It'll be at least nine hours before I'm able to get back on unless I can steal a laptop at some point.

[Aganzir]

Or, for another possibility, perhaps the lovers are hopeless romantics who thought he couldn't stand to live without Lommy? :D
:D Rikae I love you! Let's get married!

I'll be around still for a while because Lommy came online on MSN and apparently wants to talk to me in the lack of some better company.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Agan, how do you keep a wave upon the sand? :p

Popping in as I'm home sick and didn't go to class today. A thought occurred to me last night; what if we're facing two trios of lovers? That makes more sense - numbers-wise, anyway - than two pairs (four baddies? Really?).

[Macalaure]

I just looked at Legate and Lalaith and found... nothing. Lalaith focussed on Legate and Legate focussed mostly on me, Groin, and Kitanna, but he didn't go after either of them in a way that would have really put them into danger. The people who suspected Legate most are either dead or identical to me. The list of people who mentioned being unsure of him is too long to be helpful.

Eh, I thought I'd come up with more, but I can't think today...