WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales [Archive] - Page 5 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Brinniel

06-24-2009, 10:16 PM

It was barely dawn 'n th' crew was still processin' th' death 'o Inziladun Jones. But Lommy th' Infected was ready to get th' day goin' 'n she eagerly grabbed her pitchfork.
"Alright mateys," she said. "Let's end 'tis day early 'n murder that swab Mac Sparrow. He's obviously a mutineer 'n I won't be satisfied 'til I spy wit' me eye him in Davy Jones' treasure chest."
"Why do ye have a pitchfork on a scurvy pirate ship?" asked Eön Bloodbeard. "Seems a wee bit random, don't it?"
"Don't ask questions," th' quartermaster snapped back. "'An don't just stand thar like blubberin' idiots. Be on wit' it 'n lynch th' mutie already!" She gave a fierce roar as she pointed her pitchfork at th' cooper.
Boromir th' Malformed shrugged. "Well, she does have a point. That Mac Sparrow has be actin' awfully weird lately. We probably would be better off without him."
A few others nodded in agreement, 'n grabbin' their makeshift torches, they surrounded Mac Sparrow.
"Let's lynch him now!" yelled Lommy th' Infected.
"Arrrrr!!!" replied her followers.

Th' frightened Mac backed away from th' mob, 'til he found himself trapped in a corner.
"Avast thar," he cried in desperation. "ye can't murder me, I be th' one who's be protectin' ye all 'tis time."
"Don't listen to him," Lommy retorted. "That be bilge he speaks. He's just lyin' to save his sorry self. Now let's be done wit' it 'n murder him!"
"But what if he really be th' protector?" said Ham-Hands Izzy, lowerin' her torch in hesitation.
"'O course he's not," replied th' quartermaster. "Now what all ye be waitin' fer? Lynch him!"
"Don't ye see?" Mac Sparrow told th' crew. "She wants me dead because she knows that once th' deed be done, she 'n her mutie buckos gunna have killed enough to control th' Grey Gaurhoth."
"Ye're right, Sparrow," replied Shark Tooth Shasta. "Lommy be much too bloodthirsty to be an innocent. She wants to lynch Mac Sparrow, but I say we lynch her!"
"Arrrr!!!" agreed several others. They picked their torches back up 'n turned around towards Lommy th' Infected.
"Oh c'mon, ye scallywags aren't really goin' to believe Mac, be ye?" Th' quartermaster was becomin' frantic. "Don't murder me, murder him!"
But th' corsairs did not back down.

Realisin' her fate, Lommy dropped her pitchfork 'n took off runnin' in th' opposite direction.
Mac Sparrow picked up th' pitchfork. "Get her!!!" he shouted, 'n th' crew started after her.
"Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!" Lommy screamed.
"Arrrrrgh!!!!" yelled th' mob.

After a few laps around th' ship, they finally caught up to her. Mac Sparrow knocked Lommy over 'n proceeded to stab her wit' th' pitchfork. Shark Tooth Shasta, Ham-Hands Izzy, 'n Almost-Blind Nerwen joined in on th' fun usin' forks from th' galley (since thar were no more random pitchforks lyin' around). They continued to stab 'til Lommy stopped twitchin'. Th' poxy quartermaster was no more.

"Oh, ye gunna so regret 'tis in th' mornin'," th' ghost muttered.

The Living:

-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner
-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob

Night 7 has begun. Aggressors attack and gifteds make your choices.

Brinniel

06-25-2009, 10:06 PM

Boromir th' Malformed was up late that nightfall, cleanin' his cannon. He had be neglectin' th' cannon fer days now 'n it was beginnin' to look a wee bit filthy. So he grabbed a rag 'n began to polish it, whistlin' a sea shantey while at it. Unfortunately fer Boromir, bein' up past midnight made him a perfect target.

He did not hear th' mutineers come 'til they were right behind him. 'An even then he was too involved in his work to notice. A mutineer cleared his throat. Startled, th' gunner turned around to discover th' aggressors.
"Aha, so ye must be th' swabs we've be attemptin' to track below fer th' past days," he said to them.
"Aye, we be," they replied.
"'An I suppose I be meant as ye next murder?"
"Yarr," th' aggressors nodded.
Boromir laughed. "Hah, then it be lucky fer me ('n unfortunate fer ye) that I have a cannon sittin' right here next to me. Murder me ye can try, but I gunna blow ye away."
"But th' cannon be not loaded, be it?" commented th' mutineers.
Th' gunner's smile faded. "Well...no..."
"'An 'tis facin' th' opposite direction," they continued. "But no worries; we can help ye out wit' that."
"Uh oh," realised Boromir th' Malformed as th' aggressors grabbed hold 'o him.

Th' followin' mornin', Boromir was nowhere in sight. Shark Tooth Shasta ordered a search fer him 'n each hand went their separate ways to search each nook 'n cranny. Finally it was Short Ruth Mith who spotted him 'n she quickly called fer th' others. Boromir th' Malformed had be shoved into his own cannon. All that could be seen were his feet danglin' from th' end.
"Mmphrrrhhh" spoke th' dead gunner from inside his cannon.

Another nightfall had passed 'n so had another victim. Thar were only seven hands left now. It was gettin' down to th' wire 'n th' band 'o pirates could feel th' pressure. They had to find these mutineers soon, or else it wouldn't be long before they all were ghosts.

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder

It is now Day 7, so start talking.

Boromir88

06-25-2009, 10:12 PM

Oh phooey...now are ye all going to finally lynch Mac? :rolleyes:

Full props to you though sir if you wiggle out of this one. ;)

Boromir88

06-25-2009, 10:18 PM

Erm....thanks? I think?

Yes, I meant well by it...just pointing out that your "aside" commentary as a ghost is refreshing, and at that point it didn't matter where your allegiance has been, 'cus humorous ghosts are fine ghosts by my standards. :D

Isabellkya

06-25-2009, 10:20 PM

Hahaha.
Didn't I tell you that Nerwen would switch her vote?

satansaloser2005

06-25-2009, 10:27 PM

Yes, I meant well by it...just pointing out that your "aside" commentary as a ghost is refreshing, and at that point it didn't matter where your allegiance has been, 'cus humorous ghosts are fine ghosts by my standards. :D

Ahhhh....thanks then. :)

Sorry, but I'm bloody exhausted so I won't be back until morning. Well, hopefully morning. I'll be 'humorous' again then. ;)

Macalaure

06-25-2009, 10:38 PM

Not sure whether I'll wiggle myself out of it, but that wasn't the point anyway. I got you a dead Lommy-mutineer, even if you might not believe me now.

Yes, claiming the ranger was a risky move, but I couldn't watch how the entire ship just blindly followed her. Taking her out was worth the risk of possibly revealing the ranger. Since Boro doesn't seem to claim to be that ranger, I assume that the real ranger is either already dead, or managed to keep his hands clean. I'm relieved! (Well, only if it's the latter.) Be assured, if you would have contested my claim, I would have thrown a whole stack of "You're a cobbler!"'s at you, for your own sake.

Now for some reason the mutineers ended up with the conclusion that I'm not the ranger after all. Did something Boro said make them think he was the real one? Did they think I'm the real one after all and tried to set the ranger up? Beats me. Anyway, I doubt that I can convince many of you that I'm not a mutineer, or a cobbler at best. That's the way it is, and I can live with it (well, except that I'll be dead... you know what I mean). Do what you have to do. If you decide to lynch me, though, please don't spend the entire day doing nothing but that. That would be a horrible waste of time. Look for the real mutineers, or, from your (probable) perspective, the other mutineers, too.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-25-2009, 10:43 PM

Okay, so the logical thing for an innocent Mac to do would have been to continue posing as the Ranger and to have said that the mutineers were framing him by not killing him, instead of recanting his confession and claiming that "oh, the mutineers must have figured me out!" Now that he's done that, he's either a mutineer himself, or he's opened the door for the mutineers to search out the real ranger.

I'm honestly confused now.

Macalaure

06-25-2009, 10:49 PM

There is absolutely no reason for me to keep up the act, unless I want to increase the risk of the ranger revealing himself. Also, "Oh, the wolves are trying to set me up" is not any more likely to keep me alive.

Gwathagor

06-25-2009, 11:17 PM

Well, I'm back.

Boromir88

06-25-2009, 11:21 PM

Well Mac, maybe you and whoever partners you have left thought I was the Ranger for me not buying your claim. Maybe you were right, or maybe I just knew you were full of baloney? You'll have to kill me again to find out. :p

Hi Gwath...ye have lots of reading to do I'm afraid...:D

Shastanis Althreduin

06-25-2009, 11:23 PM

I'm unsure what to believe about Mac, now.

satansaloser2005

06-25-2009, 11:46 PM

Well, I'm back.

That's what he said.

Wait. What do you mean I'm a phantom, not the phantom?:p

Isabellkya

06-26-2009, 12:16 AM

Tsk Tsk Mac.

Such a lie.
The "entire" ship did not follow her blindly.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 12:37 AM

Brinniel

06-26-2009, 12:43 AM

Wait. What do you mean I'm a phantom, not the phantom?
Your mom is the phantom.

:p

satansaloser2005

06-26-2009, 01:06 AM

Your mom is the phantom.

:p

Then I'm still the phantom. Well, half the phantom. Well, not really the phantom at all but still....

Oh, and....

*uses your head to play soccer*

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 08:44 AM

It certainly is quiet here, considering all the late drama, So many questions.
Will Mac talk his way out of the noose? 25-1
Will Mith have a reasonable explanation of why she threw her vote away on Gwath? 5-1
Will Eönwë and Gwath show themselves long enough for people to get a good read on them? 10-1

Boromir88

06-26-2009, 09:18 AM

Oh have mercy on my soul, I get a constant attack of 'your mom' jokes from my roommate...I come to the 'Downs not so I can see even more o' 'em! :p

Nerwen, and really to point out this from Mac, which is quite possibly the most wolvish thing anyone can say except if he said "I'm a wolf."
Taking her out was worth the risk of possibly revealing the ranger.
I find it difficult an ordo, innocent, Mac would find it be a good idea to fake a ranger claim and lead to someone else's lynching. I remember one really good fake Ranger claim...do you recall it Shasta? :D

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 10:01 AM

Will Mith have a reasonable explanation of why she threw her vote away on Gwath? 5-1

don't do reason darling...

But I was tired and really los tthe plot not trusting anyone including and increasingly monomaniacal Lommie.

Also had a vague and unlikely hope that the reason Gwath got extra grace was because the moddess didn 't want to end the game by modfire.

But you can't vote for me so whether you believe me is somewhat academic:p

I am an ordo, I just hope things are clearer today. Unfortunately Boro who seemed relatively OK is dead ...

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 10:02 AM

I find it difficult an ordo, innocent, Mac would find it be a good idea to fake a ranger claim and lead to someone else's lynching.

Oh, you missed Izzy getting Shasta lynched last game... (real Ranger, but faked a Seer-dream). Still, it's not something I see Mac as likely to do.

remember one really good fake Ranger claim...do you recall it Shasta? :D

Shhh! He'll double-kill you for reminding him...;)

Another thing: we've killed at least one wolf, but there may be as many as three remaining. And if it's three, then lynching an innocent toDay is the end of us. So an ordo Mac shouldn't be so resigned to his fate.

EDIT:X'd with Mith.

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 10:21 AM

But you can't vote for me so whether you believe me is somewhat academic:p

That wouldn't have a bit of a gloating tone, would it? Surely I'm mistaken.

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 10:31 AM

No - well not in a "I am a villain and you can't touch me kind of a way" more of in an "I'm innocent and you are wrong but I dont' have to waste time justifying myself" fly swatting way.

I have just too easily distracted this game... if I were a cobbler I promise I would have stirred up mayhem in this set up - go and have a look at Sauce's game if you want to see what I am like when I have nothing left to lose.

And Boro and Nerwen who I have wolfed with know that there is no way I would have missed a kill.

Now I really have very little time to make my mind up so I am not going to waste it justifying myself further.

Macalaure

06-26-2009, 10:33 AM

The "entire" ship did not follow her blindly.That's true. The cobblers followed her seeing. :p

And you knew she was a wolf... how?I guess I was only 99% or so sure. I definitely felt sure enough.

Will Mac talk his way out of the noose? 25-1Aw, come on. I'm sure my chances are at least 20-1 or 15-1. ;)

Oh have mercy on my soulYou mom have mercy on your soul. :p

I find it difficult an ordo, innocent, Mac would find it be a good idea to fake a ranger claim and lead to someone else's lynching.With a certain wolf campaigning your lynch and the village blindly following it? A ranger can buy you another day by saving someone from dying, a dead wolf serves the exact same purpose. There was a minor chance that Lommy was not a wolf, but there was a decent chance that either the ranger was already dead, or would manage to stay hidden.

So an ordo Mac shouldn't be so resigned to his fate.I have reasonable doubts I'll be able to, but I'm trying my best to convince people.

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 10:50 AM

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ - not wolf per Greenie
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ absent .. but?
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Either a cobbler or Cassandra
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Ordo though I know you can't take that for granted.
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~Night kill, Seer soi-disant, Seer or possible cobbler
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Hunter - claim proved by death
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Nightkill - presumed innocent - unlikely cobbler due to near silence post-mortem
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Night kill presumed innocent - unlikely cobbler
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Night kill presumed innocent , inclined not to think cobbler

-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Lynched -unknown
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ modfire - unknown
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ Lynched - Unknown
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Modfire - Unknown
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Lynch Unknown
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~Hunter kill - unknown
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Lynch unknown
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Lynch unknown

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 11:10 AM

Another lonely decision approaches.... but which I will no doubt be reproached for...

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 11:33 AM

Is noone out there?

I have ten minutes probably... unless I drive 20 miles which seems pointless with noone to talk to.... gah

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 11:34 AM

I'm here, but then again I'm a non-factor. :p

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 11:38 AM

but you are a know innocent ... ok I wonder about Gwath a lot... Eonwe seems to fly too low for a reading .. iffy Issy seems to be very cobblerish, Nerwen's continued existence is puzzling..Shasta Gah ... Help! Mac has messed with my head...

Shastanis Althreduin

06-26-2009, 11:39 AM

...
...
...
...
PLUSPLUS BOROMIR88*

*not a real vote

Shastanis Althreduin

06-26-2009, 11:40 AM

Nerwen is right. Every time there's an actual good competitive Gifted fake, I get lynched. Why is that? :(

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 11:43 AM

Don't whine Shasta.. not helpful...

May be able ot look in briefly but.. need to vote now....

Mithalwen

06-26-2009, 11:44 AM

++Macalaure ...

trusting Boro not myself..

satansaloser2005

06-26-2009, 01:44 PM

No posts in two hours? Rubbish.

Well, I'm off, not to return until after the game. I just wanted to leave a message.

Good night packmate(s)
Good night packmate(s)
Good night packmate(s)
Turn the village into tasty chow

*snickers, scurries off*

Farewell, everyone! Enjoy the rest of the game! :)

~~Sally~~

satansaloser2005

06-26-2009, 02:02 PM

I can't decide
Whether you should live or die
Oh, you'll probably go to heaven
Please don't hang your head and cry
No wonder why
My heart feels dead inside
It's cold and hard and petrified
Lock the doors and close the blinds
We're going for a ride

Walk the plank, me hearties!

K, now I'm leaving. ;)

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 02:02 PM

No posts in two hours? Rubbish.

Well, I'm off, not to return until after the game. I just wanted to leave a message.

Good night packmate(s#
Good night packmate#s#
Good night packmate#s)
Turn the village into tasty chow

*snickers, scurries off*

Farewell, everyone! Enjoy the rest of the game! :)

~~Sally~~

Ah, yes. Well, you'll not be around to enjoy the spoils of the mutineers, anyway. If they win out, that is. I'm still hopeful we've gotten at least two of them. I think the odds are for it in any case.
Fellow innocents, I submit that it may be dangerous to focus too closely on anyone at this point, if it means someone else can lurk in the shadows unnoticed.
And is Mac too obvious a choice? Perhaps exhibiting Cobbler behaviour? It seems he's taken most of the attention for quite a while now but managed to avoid both lynching and night-killing.
I'm not advising anyone not to vote for him necessarily, I just think that's something to keep in mind.

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:15 PM

Ok, well there's 2 main scenarios:

1. They lynched/killed the two people that were going after Mac(The rest that were there seemed to be believing his claim, or voting Lommy at least, in the case of Izzy). The obvious next step for them is to lynch me (Mac's already started a case against me) and then Night-kill Mith, who's voted for Mac.

2. It's all a huge Mac-framing.

However, scenario 2 seems unlikely because they're risking a save, and that's not good this late in the game.

What I think is really happening is that we have at least 2 wolves alive, I'm guessing 3. Now they've gone all out on the Mac-lynchers. I think Mac was being prophetic when he said:

Give me another day and another protection, of course.
He knows that he's not going to be lynched in the Night, which makes him seem to be either (more likely) a mutineer, or (possibly) a co-conspirator that's somehow managed to communicate his ploy to the mutineers.
Now, because of this, I think that really what's happening is that the wolves only need one Day to finish us off. We are 7. If they are 3, they only need one misguided lynch toDay to see them win. The Night is irrelevant. Mac, it seems to me, was just fighting to stay alive so that he and the other 2 mutineers can sway the lynch. Izzy seems to be the cobbler (though she could actually be an innocent in disguise- so the wolves think that she's a cobbler, but really she's helping us, or a wolf, but that's risky and therefore unlikely), and so they only need her to vote for their choice. That way they can force a lynch through.

That is the reason that they lynched and killed the anti-Macs. Everyone else seems either slightly suspicious or hasn't voted for Mac (With the exception of Mith, but she's just mysterious), and so would be "misguided"(in their eyes) or possible lynch-fodder for toDay, which they could even suck the "misguided" ones into.

We must lynch Mac before it's too late:

++Macalaure

edit: x-ed with second Sally and Inzil

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:20 PM

2 possible variations on the main scenario:

Another possible option is that there are 2 of them left, which makes them have to sway toMorrow's vote as well, but if they kill a suspicious ordo then cobbler-Izzy can help them.

Or (this is with 3 again) maybe Mac is a huge set-up, and he is the ranger, and the wolves know we'll vote him toDay, dooming us all. Or if they have 2, they can lynch Mac toDay and use Izzy-cobbler to force another lynch toMorrow.

Lucky I still have my retraction...

McCaber

06-26-2009, 02:21 PM

Wow. I'd say sally is definitely a wolf, simply because that's the exact sort of thing she's done many times. And there's too many other potential cobblers for a sally-cobber to reveal now.

But it means we got at least one of them.

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:22 PM

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:23 PM

Lucky I still have my retraction...
I say this, however, unless there are amazing amounts of evidence against Mac being a wolf, I will stick with my vote. I can't believe he managed to get himself out of it yesterDay!

Thinlómien

06-26-2009, 02:30 PM

I can't be around much but I have one post to make - I owe you all an apology and an explanation. I'm sorry I got myself lynched for I was the ranger. (Why reveal now, well, what kind of a living ranger would not have revealed yesterDay? :rolleyes: And I want to make sure there are no more false reveals.) I was just so darn stupid, I knew Mac was trying to flush me out so I couldn't just give up and give him what he wants - but I should have done that when I got the two votes. (You know, when I was trying to sleep after staying awake so long, I had a few lines from the song Hellfire from Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame stuck in my head: "mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" and "it's not my fault, but in God's plan, he made the devil so much stronger than a man".)

Anyway, you can now finally stop wondering at my behaviour - you know why Mac's "reveal" didn't make me falter, you know why I had to stay awake all night. (Yes, I'm stupid, I decided already very early I have to stay awake as long as possible so that I can counter when Mac makes a ranger reveal - I knew he was going to do it at some phase - and then I didn't do it even when it would have been necessary, not that people would necessarily have believed me anyway... But I was so darn stupid, argh, it's going to take months or Nerwen's proven cobblerism that I can forgive myself, I let pride go before common sense, I didn't want Mac to flush me out and I was so sure I'd finally make a save next Night if I was allowed to live... Well, I learned a lesson there.)

Why was I so aggressive about Mac? Well I was and am really certain of his guilt, it looks evident. But like I told Boro yesterDay, I did not let my occasional swings of uncertainity show, I just kept trusting my general impression and attacking him recklessly - I figured after a while that it'd keep me alive because the mutineers would never ever expect a ranger to be so reckless and they wouldn't kill me if I was right about Mac. So it was all well until yesterDay's disaster.

And because you probably want to know, even though it doesn't matter, my picks were Mira, Nerwen, Rikae (holy cow she threatened to take me with her so I had to protect her even though I thought she was probably lying and that the mutineers may avoid her because of the possible protection, I just couldn't take the risk - I wish I had followed the no riks tactic later on too), Kath (I think, I'm not sure to be honest, I might have protected Mith or Nerwen too, but I think it was Kath) and Boro (I was so sure it's going to be me that Night, or possibly him, but no one else for certain - well I was thinking Zil is a mutineer :rolleyes: ).

So maybe knowing this, you can also judge Mac better. I say we lynch him, and Shasta next, the way he acted yesterDay was definitely NOT innocent. I advice looking at everybody's reactions yesterDay, it will probably help a lot.

I'm not sure we can win this anymore, there being probably 2 wolves and 2 cobblers around, but we can try, and that starts with lynching Mac.

++Macalaure

Goodbye. You managed to get the ranger lynched, hats off to that, but otherwise you were a crappy mutineer because you were so obvious. :p

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:34 PM

Also, Nerwen could be a cobbler as well, and if that's the case then they've already won unless the cobblers make a mistake and vote with the wrong side.

Thinlómien

06-26-2009, 02:34 PM

Mac is a wolf.

Izzy is a cobbler. The other cobbler is either Mith or Nerwen.

Shasta is either a wolf or an ordo, but probably a wolf because I can't believe we'd be so lucky as to have just one wolf remaining. (If Shasta isn't a wolf, then Mith is, but that seems unlikely.)

Eönwë and Gwath are innocent. I think Gwath has been kept around just so that the innocents don't die unfairly early just because of numbers, especially as already two of us have gone by modfire (assuming they were innocent, of course).

Thinlómien

06-26-2009, 02:37 PM

Eönwë, I think Boro was killed because he was quite evidently innocent, he has proven to be very sharp, and Mac a known-wolf-to-be they didn't need Boro anymore as his other remaining-alive cover. :rolleyes:

Thinlómien

06-26-2009, 02:41 PM

I'd love to stay to chat, to suspect, to help, to smash Mac to pieces by finding all the holes in his story, but this is my grandmother's computer and due to various reasons no one can sleep while I'm online and it's getting close midnight, so I have to go. Maybe it's better too, my attacks againstMac seem only to have helped him this far. :rolleyes: Anyway, if there is a toMorrow, I will be around more then and I will do my best to help you catch the final baddie(s) and redeem myself after being such a lousy living ranger. Good night and lycnh well (I guess I don't have to elaborate what that means ;))!

Boromir88

06-26-2009, 02:43 PM

You must pardon my inactivity, with the tense situations and dreadfully tough decisions for over a week now, it feels good to have the pressure off, and I would simply like to retire with me fellow ghosties, whilst I wait for the end and me spirit can finally rest.

Mith, you should really be trusting Lommy, that is one of the reasons I didn't retract my vote in the end...the other well based on pretty much what he said with regards to Kath, I didn't think he was the Ranger. And well apparently he's not, so now why would an innocent Mac make a Ranger claim.

Since Mith defended me long long time ago, on page 6 or something in the Cap'ns log against Annu. I shall now offer what I can on her and return the favor. I doubt she be a mutineer, or cus I doubt she would have said anything in my defense at all, she either would have just ignored it and enjoyed the suspicion, or prodded more my way. However, eventually I expect Mith as a wolf to change that up, throw me for a loop one of these days, but nothing else fits her being a wolf. She's right, especially with that no-kill, she would have gone through great lengths to make sure a kill got in. Even if her other partners were gone, if there was a communication slip up she would have taken it upon herself to get in a kill. How do I know? Because as fellow wolves before when there was a day with a severe lack of communication (myself and Nerwen were unable to be around) that's exactly what she did.

With her Gwath vote I thought co-conspirator, because of the entire "I'm lost about Mac, so let me vote Gwath." But the thought quickly vanished, because she's got a point about Gwath not being mod-fired, and I can see why anyone would be confused by the Mac and Lommy situation the last couple days.

The reason I stuck with Lommy, was simply because of prior days I determined she was innocent, and even though her zeal was something entirely new, and I've never seen before, that innocent reaction didn't change. Of course when Mac said he was the Ranger, I began sweating thinking I had the entire situation wrong, but based on what I read from Mac's posts, his Ranger claim just didn't make sense (and well Mac's not disputing that!)

Long story short, I trust Mith's innocent.

I began thinking like Inziladun and wondering if Mac is actually a cobbler who is now sacrificing himself and thus helping out whoever remains as mutineers. This is because his defense today looks pretty lackluster, in that he's accepted his fate and now as the..."Well I'm an ordo, I just said I was the Ranger, because I know Lommy's a mutineer...and it's worth the real risk if the real Ranger actually did reveal." I mean that type of defense, to say if the Ranger revealed, "oh well, I know we got a mutineer" should leave no one with doubts about Mac's role.

When I can be back, I will explain actually while Mac's presented a rather lackluster defense for himself (thus appearing perhaps cobblerish), it's been a pretty strong defense because of the creativity. I will explain that when I have the time, but you (meaning the innocents left who can vote) should consider that maybe a mutineer Mac is putting on a cobbler mask to dissuade people from lynching him, as do we really want a cobbler at this point in the game? But actually, it's a creative defense for himself, and I will tell you why when I can be back.

After that, well I don't feel like I have many other good ideas, and feel my contract with our devil Cap'n should come to an end.

You mom have mercy on your soul.~Mac
I knew I was walking straight into one of those as soon as I protested. :rolleyes: :p

Edit: crossed with a bunch...'Tis ok Lommy, I'm quite glad to see this side of you. Even if it got you into trouble, that is typically how I find myself in trouble.

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 02:44 PM

Yet another option is that they had 3, sacrificed Lommy to get Mac lynched the next Day, and then can turn on anyone, and everyone being so disorientated wouldn't know who to vote, and even if there aren't cobblers (which I highly doubt) they could probably create a convincing lynch target.

Argh my head hurts- too many possibilities!

Eönwë

06-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Oh.

I was still reading the last page during my previous posts and hadn't seen Lommy's confession. So that settles it. Either she really was the ranger or she was (And is) a sacrifice by the confident wolf-team which is now almost certainly going to win. I think that the former is the truth, as I don't think that Lommy would stay up all Night if their victory wasn't totally certain (however, it would be if they have cobblers).

Ok, I have probably around 2 hours left. If Mac doesn't come in that time and give a very very very good reason why we shouldn't lynch him, I'm sticking with my vote.

Boromir88

06-26-2009, 03:06 PM

I can't be around much but I have one post to make - I owe you all an apology and an explanation. I'm sorry I got myself lynched for I was the ranger.~Lommy
Argh nabbit, I was trying to relieve some pressure from whoever the real ranger was by rejecting Mac's claim and looking like I was sure he was lying through his wooden teeth.

I think that's more or less the mutineers took me out, they bit and thought I was the Ranger. This is why I can't be too critical against Mac, and why I think despite the "oh well" way he's presented it, has come up with a pretty ingenious defense. Basically, I thought, well since I might have been killed because they thought I was the real Ranger, maybe I could just claim it and provide protection for the true Ranger if he/she still be out there.

But I realized this was not a good idea, as well I'm already dead, and even if I was the real Ranger, I would be no threat to the wolves, and they would not kill me again. So, saying I was would be pretty useless. And in the worst case, everyone would think I was the cobbler, because what if the real Ranger didn't catch on and then revealed anyway.

So yes, I just decided to accept my fate and since I was the one who was night-killed felt good that perhaps the real Ranger was still out there...alas this is not so.

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 03:10 PM

I began thinking like Inziladun and wondering if Mac is actually a cobbler who is now sacrificing himself and thus helping out whoever remains as mutineers. This is because his defense today looks pretty lackluster, in that he's accepted his fate and now as the..."Well I'm an ordo, I just said I was the Ranger, because I know Lommy's a mutineer...and it's worth the real risk if the real Ranger actually did reveal." I mean that type of defense, to say if the Ranger revealed, "oh well, I know we got a mutineer" should leave no one with doubts about Mac's role.

Problem is, unless there's a convincing case against someone else, I'm not sure if the innocents can take the chance of leaving him alive. But maybe that's the plan....

Shastanis Althreduin

06-26-2009, 03:13 PM

I know I'm innocent, and I'm afraid that's the main basis I was so sure of Lommy's guilt, because the only thing she's ever had against me is process-of-elimination, which I've already blown out of the water (there's no way of knowing how many mutineers we've lynched already).

So we've got a dead Lommy claiming to be the Ranger, Mac claiming to be the Ranger yesterday but retracting and saying he's just an ordo today...

I'm tempted to vote Mac, but I know I'll be on at deadline, so I'm going to wait. My main reason for not voting him now is still Lommy.

Boromir88

06-26-2009, 03:21 PM

One more thing...

++Macalaure (x 5,025,646 ghost votes)

I'd like to see him avoid this lynch.

...wait you're telling me you will count pregnant chads but not ghost votes? :rolleyes:

Macalaure

06-26-2009, 03:28 PM

And is Mac too obvious a choice? Perhaps exhibiting Cobbler behaviour? It seems he's taken most of the attention for quite a while now but managed to avoid both lynching and night-killing.
I'm not advising anyone not to vote for him necessarily, I just think that's something to keep in mind.That's exactly the way it is. You make me feel really bad for suspecting you earlier.

2. It's all a huge Mac-framing.Can't be. Lommy tried to, and she did so well that I had to resort to extreme means to get her lynched. Now I will probably suffer her fate, but that does not mean at any rate that all my voters are guilty or misled. At the very least Boro does what he does for innocent reasons, as frustrating as it is. (Iow, I don't think he's the cobbler.)

I'm puzzled by Eonwe. His behaviour today is not what I expected it to be (I expected a quick dismissal of all my defenses). Especially,Lucky I still have my retraction...does not seem to make any sense for a mutineer, unless he thinks I'm indeed a cobbler and wants to maintain the option of keeping me around if it doesn't hurt him.

Also, Sally's confessed evilness (of whichever sort), makes me feel better about him because of his important vote against him.

I'm puzzled by Lommy, too. She either has to be pretty darn certain that I will be dead today (more certain than I am), because why else should she switch her tone today? This makes me feel even more certain about her. If I was lynched and thought a wolf was behind it, I would be even more fixated on getting rid of that wolf. If I had been lynched as a wolf with an innocent behind it, well, that's what happens to most wolves, after all. It doesn't necessarily merit more involvement.

you know why Mac's "reveal" didn't make me falterBecause you are a wolf who had her head far, far too deep inside the mess? ;)

I advice looking at everybody's reactions yesterDay, it will probably help a lot.Translation: Gwathagor is a wolf and if you follow my advice you will only lynch innocents and we win.

and Mac a known-wolf-to-be they didn't need Boro anymore as his other remaining-alive cover.What are you talking about?

the other well based on pretty much what he said with regards to Kath

Are you serious? That I had a "very bad" feeling about Kath was one of the two reasons? *shakes head*

This is because his defense today looks pretty lackluster, in that he's accepted his fate and now as the..."Well I'm an ordo, I just said I was the Ranger, because I know Lommy's a mutineer...and it's worth the real risk if the real Ranger actually did reveal." I mean that type of defense, to say if the Ranger revealed, "oh well, I know we got a mutineer" should leave no one with doubts about Mac's role.I'm afraid I can only put up such a performance now and then. YesterDay I could save myself and kill Lommy with the ranger-reveal. Today it will take a miracle, and I won't burn myself out for one that won't come.

maybe a mutineer Mac is putting on a cobbler mask to dissuade people from lynching himIf I was actually doing that, I would give you a much more entertaining and obvious cobbler, trust me.

One thing I noticed about Boro's death. The kills so far have pretty much followed a pattern, haven't they? Greenie, Eomer, Inziladun - involved posters (usually), independent voters, and completely ignored since they're dead. Rikae was an obvious deviation from the plan, but Boro is a completely different type of kill. I don't know what it could mean, though.

Nogrod

06-26-2009, 04:25 PM

One thing I noticed about Boro's death. The kills so far have pretty much followed a pattern, haven't they? Greenie, Eomer, Inziladun - involved posters (usually), independent voters, and completely ignored since they're dead. Rikae was an obvious deviation from the plan, but Boro is a completely different type of kill. I don't know what it could mean, though.I think you're up to something quite important here Mac. Whether you just spotted it or whether you know it because you have been discussing those kills with your mates is another matter. But the pattern has changed to be sure.

The problem of course is that both Mac and Lommy could be seen to pick that kind of style: take first down those independent minded and involved players who might be able to make the right decisions but who are not the "highest profile" -ones, and then, when it's safe enough and the game is "old" enough, start killing those loudmouths influencing the village against your wishes... Then you could say you were good sports giving the addicted players a chance to play but finish them off before they got too dangerous.

But it means one of them probably is a mutineer (or then Mith is?) as that kind of tactics suits certain people better and not so well others...

So which one of you speaks the truth? I can see why Mac the innocent would do what he did - and I can see why Mac the mutineer would have done that. And the same goes with Lommy: her actions are understandable both ways as well.

Although looking at how it all played out I'd be a bit more confident with Lommy speaking the truth here - and there we should check those who lynched her at the last minutes thus saving Mac. But I must admit - and as a ghost I can do it freely - that I can see the counterwise scenario being possible: the wolves & cobblers tried to lynch Mac but the decent innocents came to rescue him in the end.

The only problem with the latter interpretation is that innocents not knowing about each other - or anyone - rarely manage to make that kind of illustrious "saves" at the last moments but the mutineers have all the tools for it (eg. knowledge) - not the least in a game where nothing is revealed with the death of someone where they can quiite boldly execute those saving operations...

I need to check that voting...

Isabellkya

06-26-2009, 04:43 PM

Nerwen. That was not the case, and you know it. -eyerolling-

I am not a Cobbler, thank you very much.
Like -enter expletive- seriously, there is too much elitist stuff going on here.

Nerwen is a mutineer.
Mac... is Mac

I've no time to catch up on missed reading right now.

Nogrod

06-26-2009, 05:02 PM

YesterDay's voting then...

Izzy ++ Mac
Nerwen ++ Mac 2
Lommy ++ Mac 3
Mith ++ Gwath
Eönwë ++ Mac 4
Boro ++ Mac 5
"Mac’s "reveal"
Shasta ++ Lommy
Izzy -- Mac 4
Izzy ++ Lommy 2
Mac ++ Lommy 3
Nerwen -- Mac 3
Nerwen ++ Lommy 4

Taking out Lommy and Mac from the stir it leaves us with:

Izzy and Nerwen voting for Mac and then retracting it to Lommy - they were first to vote for Mac and the last to change.

Eönwë and Boro (known to be not a mutineer) voted for Mac.

Shasta voted for Lommy.

Mith went voting for Gwath - early it was though...

Shastanis Althreduin

06-26-2009, 05:28 PM

Izzy, do you or do you not believe that Greenie (where is she anyway?) was the Seer?

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 05:41 PM

Izzy, do you or do you not believe that Greenie (where is she anyway?) was the Seer?

By her own words, she doesn't.

The more I see. I don't believe the claim of Greenie, and subsequent "known-innocence" of Nerwen. She sure isn't acting like an innocent.

And this, in response to Rikae questioning her about the previous quote:

Just because someone is innocent, doesn't mean they don't have schemes of their own. xD

Nogrod

06-26-2009, 06:00 PM

Greenie (where is she anyway?)She's at her mom's summer cabin and has very bad access to the net - and probably doesn't care too much any more.

But talking of which... unless we have Greenie's spy-reveal contested we just need to stick with Nerwen being not a mutineer. But I'd bet she could be a co-conspie... (well, it seems I'd bet that for everyone of you...:rolleyes:)

Even if you call me a co-conspie, I think I need to say this: if there is a real spy still alive somewhere with even one living innocent's name, you should really consider coming forwards. We can't trust Nerwen for ever if Greenie was an impostor and soon even one known innocent might make the difference (in case we were going to lynch her/him). But your call to be sure.

The sad possibility is that Greenie was a co-conspie and got it right naming a mutineer-Nerwen as the innocent (a blind shot but amazingly well made!) and the real spy has been killed or lynched without us knownig anything. Although I think that ghosted seer would have said a word or two about the matter already, so I'm somewhat confident that is not the case.

Also Gwath is not a mutineer as he was so heavily suspected by Rikae - the proven hunter - and the mutineers wouldn't have tried to get her killed during the Night just because of that.

Also I strongly suspect thet one of the pair Lommy - Mac is a mutineer but which one? I'm leaning towards Mac at this point but can't really be too sure. Lommy could fool us.

I suspect Mith a lot right now. A lot. Like I did in the beginning.

Izzy's and Nerwen's turn-arounds might even speak good for them; afraid of losing the ranger they turned on their heels and retracted. I mean, if they (either of them) were mutineers with Mac why should they have voted for him in the first place - and so early as they had an opportunity to come back later in the Day? Hard to say...

Shasta's vote for Lommy directly after Mac's "revealment" is also understandable.

But with all the three I must say there is something that bothers me. It looks like they hadn't read the discussion and how things evolved... or then they used that possible interpretation as something to hide their more uglier motives?

I mean Mac's "revelation" was just downright horrible. When he made it he was having 5 votes with only Gwath having one vote besides him (and clearly Gwath is a no lynch candidate right here). So a last desperate option that did pay off to the amazement of Mac himself even? And as I said already yesterDay, he managed not to point the most obvious reason why people should not lynch him as a ranger which any ranger would have voiced in that situation...

But I do have problems with Lommy as well... It was just a bit too neat she would only now "reveal" she was the "true ranger". A bit too convenient a timing! Although there is this from yesterDay eg. long before Lommy "revealed": If he's the ranger then it's my mistake and you are all welcome to neg-rep me. But after the discussion after his reveal it should be obvious to others than me too that he's not.Which does look like something the real ranger might write...

Nogrod

06-26-2009, 06:11 PM

Good night and good luck you silent pirates...

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 06:50 PM

Huh. Obviously, Mac's "reveal" yesterDay was a last ditch effort to save himself from the lynch, and I think on that basis that we can dismiss the possibility that he is the ranger. In that regard he is clearly telling the truth. THe tricky part, in my mind, is that both an innocent and a mutineer would have equal reason to try anything to stay alive - so which is Mac? Lommy's posthumous ranger reveal doesn't help me that much either, since she could also go either way.

I guess Mac could also be a cobbler just trying to distract us at this point, but my big question is - and I suppose this also applies to the issue of whether he's evil or not - why would an evil player, particularly a cobbler, who had convinced the village that he was the ranger proceed to immediately admit that he was not? That kind of relinquishing of power gained reminds of George Washington and Cinncinnatus, and looks almost innocent. A wolf could conceivably do something like that, but a cobbler certainly wouldn't. There would be nothing to gain, as far as I can see.

So we can rule out that Mac is a cobbler, just as we can rule out that he is a ranger (IMO). It's going to take some further reading for me to decide whether he's innocent or a mutineer though. I'll try to come back after dinner.

Boromir88

06-26-2009, 07:47 PM

Problem is, unless there's a convincing case against someone else, I'm not sure if the innocents can take the chance of leaving him alive. But maybe that's the plan....~Inziladun
Exactly, it'd be a huge mistake to not lynch Mac. Let's assume worst case 3 wolves, and Mac is a cobbler, he's lynched and it's over. If he's a wolf there's still some game left. And of course that is worst case...who knows what situation we are in? Mac is a baddie (about to put my own nail in his coffin in a bit :p) and it would be a major blunder if he's not lynched.

But first...
I suspect Mith a lot right now. A lot. Like I did in the beginning.~Nogrod
Care to say why? I mean I spent a good half a post saying she's definitely not a mutineer, and there is a slight chance of maybe a co-conspirator. That's your response. You suspect her "A lot." I do suppose you have a good reason? I'd imagine you could give a bit more than "A lot." :p

Are you serious? That I had a "very bad" feeling about Kath was one of the two reasons? *shakes head*~Mac
It was everything you said about Kath. You went along with the suspicion by casting the 4th (and final) vote for her, but just said you had a feeling it was going to be a bad choice. You can't even call what you did a flip-flop, it was the a massive contradiction right within your vote post..."I don't like this...hmm ok ++Kath" Then moments later, "oh wait...--Kath, ++Izzy"

So, now Mac says he's not really the Ranger, but he's an ordo, who faked being a ranger because he knew Lommy was a mutineer. It may look crazy, why didn't he just stick with the Ranger defense, no one said otherwise?

But just realize the ingenuity of his defense...I seriously do give him props for creating one like this. He obviously has to answer if he really is the Ranger, why he would still be alive, so even if he managed to get another day because of the Ranger claim, he painted himself into dead meat the next day once he didn't show up dead. Well, there goes trying to keep up the Ranger act.

Now maybe he can come in and say..."Ahh they are setting me up!" But this would be full of holes too, as Inziladun accurately pointed out the previous day the Ranger can't defend xemself. Hmm, risk going after someone else, and having a blocked kill, just so you can "set up" the ranger for the next day, or simply kill a Ranger who can't protect xemself at night? You take out the Ranger at night, because then you leave the village with no more gifteds and any band of mutineers can drum up some quick case to lynch an innocent, bingo-bango, and they're done. So, that defense is out the window for a wolf-Mac.

He really took the only escape that was possible, and that he is an ordo, who said he was the Ranger, only because he was entirely sure of Lommy's mutineering...and if the real Ranger revealed oh well. It looked pretty "out there" but really it's the only choice he has left, as to why he's still alive after supposedly being the Ranger. It's clever, but there are so many holes in this thing.

-The wolves would somehow have to figure out that Mac really wasn't the Ranger. How they would do that after Mac says "don't kill me I'm the Ranger" can someone tell me?

-Now I said I can't be too critical of Mac, because as an ordo, I've considered doing the same thing...that is faking a claim as a gifted so a real gifted can stay alive longer. The problem is, at most as an ordo I will hint and try to look gifted, even if I'm about to be lynched as an ordo, I would never claim to be a gifted. And Mac suggesting that as ordo he actually did this, and having the "Oh well if the real Ranger reveals, who cares?" reaction...ya right.

The big problem with this defense, is say Mac's actually is an ordo, and he says "I'm the Ranger" to avoid a lynch, and turn the tables on your attacker who you know for some reason is a mutineer. To explain the gynormous hole in this logic, I will have to set up a scenario. I really do think Lommy is the Ranger, but I'm just saying "what if" to blow apart Mac's logic.

Alright, so Mac is actually an ordo, and he 100% believes Lommy is a mutineer, whether she is or not, no one knows, but Mac is sure of it. Let's say that I'm the actual Ranger then.

Once Mac says "I'm the Ranger" to save his skin, and "vote Lommy, because now I know she's a wolf." You do realize that in this scenario, if I'm the real Ranger (or anyone else for that matter), you'd be the one who would wind up getting lynched, not Lommy. Because once I decide to step out and say...uh wait a second Mac, no you're not, the village isn't going to listen to you and lynch Lommy, they're going to lynch you! You're entire logic that you were an ordo, claiming to be a ranger, just so you could lynch a mutineer Lommy is full of gaping holes. And you are a wise enough player to know if you really are an ordo that logic you laid out this morning, would not work in the least bit.

So, then interesting enough as Mac has pointed out there was a shift in the village targets. Now at first I believed it may have been because by me not-believing in Mac's Ranger claim, the wolves fell in and thought I was the actual Ranger.

However, I realize now (and I hate to turn on the pessimism switch here) it's probably more likely Mac has definitely one, and maybe 2 partners left, and they are hoping there is a cobbler or two alive. By killing me, they get rid of a sure vote for Mac, because there was no way I was going to buy any of his balogna if he appeared alive the next day. So they killed a sure vote for him, and he's pretty much accepted his fate, but if there is a cobbler left, and he's got a couple mutineers he is hoping that will be enough to not be lynched and make it game, set, match, or pretty much game, set, match.

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 08:01 PM

Eh. Go ahead and string Mac up, mates. You know you'll feel better. :)
Unfortunately, I fear that won't be enough as things now stand, as you'll still likely be dealing with at least one mutineer. The ranks of the good guys are getting a bit thin. But you never know: I still have hope it'll work out.
Mith blew off my questioning her about the Gwath vote, but she did vote for Mac. Only because she figured it was a done deal, and everyone would go after him anyway? I wouldn't think she could afford the appearance of another throwaway vote, so I could see her voting him even if she was a fellow mutineer.

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 08:39 PM

Once Mac says "I'm the Ranger" to save his skin, and "vote Lommy, because now I know she's a wolf." You do realize that in this scenario, if I'm the real Ranger (or anyone else for that matter), you'd be the one who would wind up getting lynched, not Lommy. Because once I decide to step out and say...uh wait a second Mac, no you're not, the village isn't going to listen to you and lynch Lommy, they're going to lynch you! You're entire logic that you were an ordo, claiming to be a ranger, just so you could lynch a mutineer Lommy is full of gaping holes. And you are a wise enough player to know if you really are an ordo that logic you laid out this morning, would not work in the least bit.

On the whole, this post made sense but - could you run this part by me again? If what you're saying is true, then it seems like Mac's false ranger claim (it's clearly false, regardless of his alignment) would be equally risky whether he's a wolf or an ordo and so the weakness of that ploy wouldn't really have any bearing on the issue of determining his guilt or innocence. Maybe the facade was full of holes, but I don't see how that can tell us anything about his alignment. Either way, he was desparate and about to be lynched anyway.

Am I totally missing your point?

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 08:47 PM

Exactly, it'd be a huge mistake to not lynch Mac. Let's assume worst case 3 wolves, and Mac is a cobbler, he's lynched and it's over.

Maybe this is totally academic, but I think you're wrong here. I'm pretty sure that a cobbler is the only thing that Mac is surely not. He's definitely either mutineer or ordo. Not that it really makes much of a difference, since Mac is all but lynched already with 3 votes.

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 08:49 PM

*just notices sally's second to last post*

Hey, WHAAAT?

Now there's a cobbler if I've ever seen one. Probably trying to draw attention away from Mac.

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 09:07 PM

Shastanis Althreduin

06-26-2009, 09:09 PM

No, you're not, Gwath, but I'm thinking it might be a better idea to resolve the Mac situation first.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 09:09 PM

++Macalaure

For reasons stated previously.

X'd with Gwath and Shasta.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 09:14 PM

Out of curiosity - has anyone considered trying to lynch a ghost? I've been gone for the past couple of days, so I don't really know what's happened, but maybe there's a ghost whose total demise could give us some very helpful certainty. Otherwise it's just going to be total guesswork right until the end and as right as we think we might be about someone's guilt or innocence, we'll never know for sure. Am I the only one who thinks that this might be a good idea?

If there's three wolves left, that's suicidal.

Besides, Sally's confessed to being a baddy. She might not be a wolf, though... but then again she might. I'm sure she's trying to get us to double-kill her, either way.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 09:16 PM

If we survive toDay, we'll know at least two wolves are down.

Gwathagor

06-26-2009, 09:17 PM

Isabellkya

06-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Nog, Nerwen and I were the only ones to change our votes from Mac to Lommy.

No Zil, that was not in response to that quote. It was in response to something else that she said.

Nice try though. ;)

No, I don't believe Greenie's claim and the subsequent assumed innocence of Nerwen.

Greenie would do something like that. Along with Nerwen's following behavior, I really doubt she is the seer.

As I stated previously - Nerwen isn't acting like an innocent, nor anywhere near someone whom is in the realm of a known innocent. She isn't being thoughtful with her votes and her reasonings.

She seems to have only named me a Cobbler or a Mutie - because I called her out first. Defensive reaction in that manner - is suspicious. Suspecting someone only because they suspect you first? Uhh yeah.

X'd with Nerwen x2, and Gwath.

Inziladun

06-26-2009, 09:28 PM

What about these ghosts, anyway? I want to take a closer look at the ones that have continued to be involved after their deaths, since I that takes a lot of dedication and almost certainly in some of the cases indicates some kind of ulterior motive. But which ones - ?

I believe Boro, Nogrod and I were all night-killed, so I think it would mostly be a waste. Nogrod is, I think, the only active ghost there could legitimately be some doubt about. And Lommy, I suppose. I realize I'm just a powerless voice in the darkness here, but I don't think you can afford to chase the ghosts this close to the end.
As to why I'm still here, I'm interested in this game and I want to see it to the end, that's all. It's the weekend, too. So unless I come down with the nasty virus that's been plaguing my daughter, I plan to be around the next day as well.

Macalaure

06-26-2009, 09:33 PM

Gah, almost everytime I get lynched it's because RL gets in the way and I can't be there to defend myself.

I guess now it's decided. At least I will still be able to contribute as a ghost, and maybe some will even listen to me. :rolleyes:

Isabellkya

06-26-2009, 09:40 PM

Vote time.

++Nerwen

Macalaure

06-26-2009, 09:49 PM

Too tired right now to properly refute anything.

Boro, what you say about my Kath-vote makes no sense. It seriously doesn't.

If I really was a wolf, I'd gladly accept your props, Boro. :)

I think the bottom line is what Gwath said - what I did would have as much holes if I was a wolf than in reality. You're biased, Boro, because you can't get the idea out of your head that Lommy is innocent. But I understand that, it's the default reaction for any werewolf player to lynch somebody who presents them a story like mine. Just look what everyone else did (except Izzy, but she's.... let's say unique). You merely backed it up with theory.

I have to give props in turn to Nog, Inzy, and Gwath for considering what I said could be true. Actually, I'm considering to remove Gwath from my high suspicion. He's been pretty sensible since he came back. (Then again, he kept on harping on the double kill, which is indeed a bad idea at this point.) Of course, with my recent doubt of Eonwe, this leaves me with 0 wolves. I haven't checked the actual numbers, but I'm sure we have at least one more day. I'll make up my mind about the baddies again and try to help you with whatever I will come up with.

I believe Boro, Nogrod and I were all night-killed, so I think it would mostly be a waste.Nogrod was picked by the hunter.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 09:53 PM

Izzy, sweetheart, have some common sense.

It's perfectly reasonable for me to think you're a baddie when you've been fixated on me ever since Greenie named me innocent. (There are other things, e.g. your behaviour to Rikae after her Hunter-reveal.)

Wolves are less likely to go all out after a semi-known innocent, because it brings them out into the open, and because they can kill at Night anyway. Besides, for a cobbler who doesn't have a good idea of who the wolves are, someone like me is the only safe vote.

Ergo, you're probably a cobbler. However, I could be wrong: you might be a mutineer trying to look like one... I've played that game myself.

Now quiet. We're lynching Mac toDay. I really don't think you're going to swing it my way.

EDIT: X'd with Mac.

Nerwen

06-26-2009, 09:56 PM

I haven't checked the actual numbers, but I'm sure we have at least one more day. I'll make up my mind about the baddies again and try to help you with whatever I will come up with.

Depends on how many wolves are left. If you are innocent and there's three wolves... game over.

Unfortunately, in that case you've basically set things up so we can't very well not lynch you.

Isabellkya

06-26-2009, 09:57 PM

Oh boy are you wrong.

But nice try on the half-effort. ;)

Brinniel

06-26-2009, 10:03 PM

Deadline. I think it's quite obvious who's to be lynched next.

Brinniel

06-26-2009, 11:23 PM

No narration yet here, but I did finish Night 6.

-----------

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper

Night 8 has begun. You know what to do.

Brinniel

06-28-2009, 01:32 AM

Three and a half hours late...but now it's Day 8. I won't even try to do any narrations tonight considering I'm slightly drunk (but legal). :D (*wonders how she will survive getting up at 7:30am to work*)

Oh btw, Mith is dead.

----------------

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook

Day 8 has begun. Talk, talk, talk....everyone (including all you ghosts).

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 02:21 AM

So we're down to five; Izzy, Eonwe, Nerwen, Gwath, and myself.

I'm removing myself (I know I'm innocent) and Nerwen (no one's come forward and challenged Greenie's seer claim, and I'm not sure I'd believe them now if they did) from my calculations entirely.

Gwath I'm unsure about. He was gone for too long for me to have a clear read on him, but was he gone during the no-kill?

Izzy and Eonwe have looked like cobblers to me for a while. I think it's time we consider lynching one of them; my preference is Eonwe as I think he's more likely to be a mutineer.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 02:21 AM

And besides, if we lynch Eonwe, we'll still have a powder monkey! Arr.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 03:30 AM

I wonder how many villains (both kinds) are left? If it's three we're in trouble.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 03:35 AM

Izzy and Eonwe have looked like cobblers to me for a while. I think it's time we consider lynching one of them; my preference is Eonwe as I think he's more likely to be a mutineer.

More likely to be a mutineer than a cobbler, or just more likely to be a mutineer than Izzy?

I'm not hair-splitting. At this stage it makes a difference.

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 05:10 AM

I'm hoping that one of Lommy or Mac was a mutineer (I think Mac), but can't be certain.

Well, to me it seems that one if not both of Gwath and Shasta are the mutineers. I know I'm not, and I'm hoping that Nerwen is indeed a non-mutineer (could be a co-conspirator, though), and I think Izzy is the co-conspirator.

Since Gwath hasn't voted for many Days, I hope the Cap'n wouldn't let him win like that as a mutineer, so I say we lynch Shasta and hope for the best. On another note- how has Shasta survived so long? Usually an innocent Shasta gets lynched or killed early on in the game... which makes him look even more suspicious to me.

If we haven't won by lynching Shasta, then I'd suggest we lynch Izzy toMorrow, as she could be a mutineer avoiding lynching by pretending to be a co-conspirator.

I also think it's way too late to be looking for a double lynch.

Also, if Greenie isn't the seer and you are the real seer, then I suggest you reveal toDay, otherwise we have no chance.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 05:30 AM

Well, looks like Shasta and Eönwë aren't in it together, anyway.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 05:47 AM

so I say we lynch Shasta and hope for the best. On another note- how has Shasta survived so long? Usually an innocent Shasta gets lynched or killed early on in the game... which makes him look even more suspicious to me.

"Even more" suspicious? What was your case on Shasta before? I can't remember.

Also, if Greenie isn't the seer and you are the real seer, then I suggest you reveal toDay, otherwise we have no chance.

A bit eyebrow-raising, Eönwë. I rather think the real Seer would have revealed by now, don't you?

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 06:04 AM

Come to think of it, it's surprising we haven't had a counter-claim yet. Izzy keeps hinting she's something, but then backs away when she's asked directly. I bet she's been planning to claim Seer-hood for Days now... but is too chicken to go all the way.:p

And yes, this is one situation in which I feel entirely justified in suspecting anyone who suspects me of being a wolf.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 07:02 AM

Oh btw, Mith is dead.Well, there went my wildcard... *sighs*

Okay the good news first: we have not more than two mutineers left - so we've managed to lynch at least two. Good.

In the best scenario we only have one left. In that case we would have ample chances of winning as I think we can somewhat rely on Nerwen being a non-mutineer and slight reasons to believe the same of Gwath.

So the lynchee should be probably picked from the trio Shasta, Eönwë and Izzy.

The bad news are that if we (well you who vote) miss toDay and there are two mutineers left, well that's the end of it and we lose.

An unnerving point to add. Now interestingly Nerwen keeps staying alive Night after Night even if she has a semi-innocent status on the ship. It's clear the normal dynamics don't work in here and the baddies probably don't have as much reason to kill a "known innocent" because she can't be silenced by the kill.

So are they just trying to keep up our insecurity concerning her innocence by letting her live or is there a real problem here?

And why did they pick Mith?

Well "they" or "s/he"...

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 07:46 AM

In that case we would have ample chances of winning as I think we can somewhat rely on Nerwen being a non-mutineer and slight reasons to believe the same of Gwath.

Hmmn. I wasn't all that keen on Gwath's talk of lynching ghosts yesterDay.

The bad news are that if we (well you who vote) miss toDay and there are two mutineers left, well that's the end of it and we lose.

The worse news is that if there's two wolves and a cobbler, they can win toDay whatever we do.

However, as it stands I think there can only be two wolves if Izzy's one of them... unless they've screwed up.

Now interestingly Nerwen keeps staying alive Night after Night even if she has a semi-innocent status on the ship. It's clear the normal dynamics don't work in here and the baddies probably don't have as much reason to kill a "known innocent" because she can't be silenced by the kill.

So are they just trying to keep up our insecurity concerning her innocence by letting her live

Presumably– but if so they're being pretty silly (not that I like to sound ungrateful). What's the point? It should be obvious that even if Greenie were lying, the real Seer would have dreamt of me– and would have denounced me if I were a wolf.

Why Mith? *shrugs* Well, I'd made up my mind she was a goodie... guess the wolves did too.

Mithalwen

06-28-2009, 08:00 AM

becasue I had an open mind perhaps?

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 08:04 AM

I was going to put together a list of those alive and how many times they voted along with Mac...maybe that would give us something. I'll see if I can get that done, I'm going out to the Bullfrog to enjoy the Finals (USA! USA! :p)

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 08:12 AM

becasue I had an open mind perhaps?

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.

Oh, I don't particularly trust him... but I can't very well vote him.

Actually, Noggins started the "will the real Seer please step forward" meme yesterDay. I didn't much like that then, and I don't like Eönwë's carrying it on toDay– looks a bit like, "Pssst! Cobbler! Here's how you can help out!"

EDIT:X'd with Boro.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 08:38 AM

Actually, Noggins started the "will the real Seer please step forward" meme yesterDay. I didn't much like that then, and I don't like Eönwë's carrying it on toDay– looks a bit like, "Pssst! Cobbler! Here's how you can help out!"I see what you are thinking but that's not the case. I think if anyone comes forwards toDay as "the real seer", we'll have a bunch of tough questions to her/him before even considering of believing her/him.

Staying silent for this long in this kind of situation would be just irresponsible behaviour - even if s/he had only a little information. But as Nerwen said, she should have knowledge on Nerwen at least and I can't see why s/he wouldn't have enlightened us about that already.

Don't' trust Nogrod.. remember Rikae chose him and he suspected me with no evidence presented.Do you really think no innocent ever suspects another innocent? That innocents, especially gifteds have it right everytime? Like those hunters who kill the seers in revenge during the Night when they are killed... (some of you probably remember that one?) :rolleyes:

And to add: if you suspect me for not giving evidence to suspect you, then did you present evidence for actually voting me Mith? And what kind of evidence could one produce in this game in the first place with no knowledge about anything? :)

It was a gut feeling arising from the way you played and how you were more than happy to jump on me in the very beginning "with no reasons whatsoever" (sic) - but it has now been proved wrong. Were there not so many competing claims for cobblery already I'd say you Mith were one of them cobblers but maybe not... or whatever.

Hmmn. I wasn't all that keen on Gwath's talk of lynching ghosts yesterDay.Neither was I. And I think that's one of the reasons Gwath almost always gets lynched pretty early in the games. He throws in things like that and looks so suspicious people lynch him just to be sure. But I still think that Rikae's strong suspicions against him and the mutineer's decision to attack Rikae the confessed hunter would have been a bit too risky move from the mutineers if Gwath was one of them.

Alongside with Nerwen's possible (probable?) innocence that's the only other "fact" we can even imagine to stick with in the situation we are. (Fex. I wouldn't bet too highly on either Lommmy or Mac being the innocent one - it could really go either way).

The worse news is that if there's two wolves and a cobbler, they can win toDay whatever we do.Looking at the brighter side of it, the co-conspie still doesn't actually know anything and therefore can vote in a wrong way from her/his perspective. And there is a chance we have alredy lynched (or the mutineers have killed) both the conspies already...

We just don't know.

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 08:53 AM

So Mac voted for...

Day 1: Nogrod (retracted and Nogrod again)
Day 2: Eomer
Day 3: Gwath
Day 4: Gwath
Day 5: Izzy (after retracting vote for Kath)
Day 6: Lommy

Eonwe: (Day 3)

Gwath:

Shasta: (Day 6)

Izzy: (Day 6)

Nerwen: (Day 4, Day 5, Day 6)

Other notes:

Day 3- Mac votes for Gwath, and at the end Nerwen retracts Rikae (after revealing as the hunter), votes Annu, and Gwath votes Annu.

Day 6- Everyone who was around after Mac's reveal (excluding myself) switched to Lommy. That doesn't really reveal too much, as well Mac said he was the Ranger, and someone innocent could believe that.

The only thing that sticks out is Shasta without question accepts Mac's claim and quickly votes for Lommy. His suspicion for it was not just Mac's reveal, but Eonwe voting with Lommy. Hmm...I also recall a defensive Mac when I pointed out Shasta's, Eonwe's, and Inziladun's post spurt after Mith said something. Inziladun is not a mutineer, and I believe he's innocent...but jury still out on Shasta and Eonwe.

Nerwen voted along with Mac the most amount of times...which is kind of odd. But actually I think this makes Nerwen look even more innocent (if there really was any doubt, I thought Nerwen could be a co-conspie). Mac trying to follow a presumed innocent's vote? Especially on Day 5, Nerwen votes for Izzy, and Mac retracts his vote for Kath and follows.

Gwath did not vote with Mac at all, but Mac tried to lynch Gwath twice, and when I wondered how Gwath's non-appearance would play into the mutineers strategy, Mac praised the observation and used the suspicion against Gwath to try and get Lommy lynched.

As for why Mith? How come it seems like I make a statement of innocence about someone they wind up dead? I apologize Mith. Anyway, I think it was Mith, because she's been here everyday and voted everyday. Even if she hasn't been an 'active' force, she votes everyday...plus no one really thought she was a mutineer.

The 5 still alive are all wildcards, which will make this very difficult vote for ye 5. Even if I believe Nerwen's innocent, I still have no idea what she is going to do. :p

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 08:57 AM

And to add: if you suspect me for not giving evidence to suspect you, then did you present evidence for actually voting me Mith? And what kind of evidence could one produce in this game in the first place with no knowledge about anything? ~Nogrod
Yes she did. After my vote against you on Day 3, she added why she was suspicious of you and voted for you. ;)

For what it's worth, after re-reading posts of yours that I missed the first time after Mac's reveal, I thought you looked a bit more innocent, but I've already resigned myself to not-trusting you until the curse is over. What the living do now...well that's their own choice, you've at least proven you deserve to say your piece, without the dead (erm well me) getting in your way. :)

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 09:06 AM

Yes she did. After my vote against you on Day 3, she added why she was suspicious of you and voted for you. ;)Actually already on Day2 with nothing to say of her vote. Just the vote... :confused:

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:56 AM

I'm hoping that one of Lommy or Mac was a mutineer (I think Mac), but can't be certain.

Alongside with Nerwen's possible (probable?) innocence that's the only other "fact" we can even imagine to stick with in the situation we are. (Fex. I wouldn't bet too highly on either Lommmy or Mac

True, Lommy went after Mac in a positively fanatical way, and generally acted quite strangely– but Mac admitted to lying about being the Ranger in order to get Lommy lynched. By his own account, he had no way of knowing her role.

Besides, if Lommy wasn't the Ranger, who is?

Actually already on Day2 with nothing to say of her vote. Just the vote... :confused:

Mith = Night-kill = non-wolf = case closed.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 10:07 AM

Mith = Night-kill = non-wolf = case closed.Obviously... and I don't claim anything else. That should be clear from what I have said already. And as I said in my post a short while ago: if there weren't so many candidates for being the co-conspies I'd say she was one of them but maybe I just have to conclude that she was only greatly misguided and somehow overcareful even with "Mith-standards"...

Anyway, that's not the most fruitful discussion we might had as we should concentrate on those from which you'd need to lynch one toDay. I'll be back later to try to give my cents for it.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 10:10 AM

Besides, if Lommy wasn't the Ranger, who is?
If Greenie wasn't the seer then who is? :rolleyes:

This is a pretty complicated one as games go...

And anyway, if pressed to choose I would believe in Lommy more than Mac for being innocent. Sure. But it doesn't make me 100% sure - or confident about it.

Then again what's the point in discussing these? We have no way of knowing but need to pick up the remaining mutineer(s). Sure we can check the relations to Mac and Lommy (as Boro has done) - and that's good.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:17 AM

And anyway, if pressed to choose I would believe in Lommy more than Mac for being innocent. Sure. But it doesn't make me 100% sure - or confident about it.

After what Mac pulled, I would be 100% sure– but I've just played a game where one innocent lied to get another lynched. So I'm... oh... 95% sure.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 11:49 AM

There's still that 5%, though. After re-reading, Lommy still does look rather sinister... I'm reminded of why I voted her.

Now, Mac tried to get Eönwë and Gwath lynched. So, if he's a wolf, does that leave Shasta?

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 12:26 PM

More likely to be a mutineer than a cobbler, or just more likely to be a mutineer than Izzy?

I'm not hair-splitting. At this stage it makes a difference.

I think Sally was a co-conspirator. That leaves one, and I think Izzy fits the profile better. Which leaves Eonwe as the mutineer.

Inziladun

06-28-2009, 12:28 PM

To add to Boro's earlier vote analysis, here's the voting by the five remaining.

Day 1

Shasta > Boro
Eönwë > Rikae
Gwath > Wilwa (did not bold)
Izzy > No show
Nerwen > No vote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 2

Nerwen > Me
Shasta > Rikae
Gwath > Mira (known to be a probable modfire)
Izzy > Mac
Eönwë > No vote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 3

Shasta > Annu
Eönwë > Gwath
Nerwen > Rikae retracted after her hunter reveal, then Annu
Izzy > Nogrod
Gwath > Annu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 4

Nerwen > Gwath
Izzy > Herself
Eönwë > Sally
Shasta > Sally
Gwath > No show
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 5

Nerwen > Gwath, retracted for Izzy
Gwath > No show
Eönwë > Me (did not bold)
Izzy > Nerwen
Shasta > Kath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 6

Izzy > Mac, retracted for Lommy
Nerwen > Mac, retracted for Lommy
Gwath > No show
Shasta > Lommy
Eönwë > Mac
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 7

Nerwen > Mac
Gwath > Mac
Shasta > No vote
Eönwë > Mac
Izzy > Nerwen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps that will help someone. I have to conclude that Gwath is innocent, or at least not a mutineer. It would seem he's been allowed to use an unfair tactic if he is.
Izzy's voting appears highly suspect due to the useless vote for herself
and the votes for Nerwen because, as she said, she doesn't believe Greenie's reveal.
Shasta doesn't seem to have made any particularly odd votes.
Nerwen has three retractions.
Both Gwath and Eönwë made unbolded votes, otherwise Eönwë is like Shasta.

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 12:41 PM

Ok, well I'm thinking that we know that we've managed to get rid of at least two of the baddies: Sally and one out of Mac and Lommy. Hopefully th

At best, we have only one mutineer left.

At worst however, I could be the only innocent left in the game, with there being two mutineers and two co-conspirators.

edit: x-ed x2 (computer froze)

edit 2: I x-post and now it's suddenly all gone quiet.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 12:54 PM

At worst however, I could be the only innocent left in the game, with there being two mutineers and two co-conspirators.Sorry Eönwë, but that was pretty pathetic indeed... :rolleyes:

Yes, sorry (nothing personal).

But really, honestly, would you say that at this moment being an innocent? Maybe you could, just maybe... but that does look soo vile!

Thanks for the list Inzy! That could prove handy. I have a few things at my hands right now but I'll promise to take a closer look on that later.

Now, Mac tried to get Eönwë and Gwath lynched. So, if he's a wolf, does that leave Shasta?I think it all depends on how seriously he tried to get those two lynched and whether we can believe he's a mutineer (sorry to bring this issue to the forwards again... I'm leaning on Lommy being the innocent one but just can't shake the doubt from my mind)? But I think that would be a case to be inspected more closely in any case. A promising find Nerwen!

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 01:04 PM

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 01:09 PM

Sorry Eönwë, but that was pretty pathetic indeed... :rolleyes:

Yes, sorry (nothing personal).

But really, honestly, would you say that at this moment being an innocent? Maybe you could, just maybe... but that does look soo vile!
Ok, well how would you say it?

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 01:18 PM

Ok, well how would you say it?I wouldn't say it in the first place... it looks darn underlining, or self-sufficent, or trying to appear like something - and thence suspicious... :rolleyes:

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 01:23 PM

I wouldn't say it... it looks darn underlining - and thence suspicious... :rolleyes:
Well, yes it does. But in this game I don't say something because it does or doesn't make me suspicious- I say it because I mean it. It is possible that there are two mutineers and two co-conspirators (Ah! There's a way to say it without incriminating myself in the process).

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 01:50 PM

I don't know about Lommy - she is so misguided about me, and all because of "process of elimination" (her words) - but if she's not the Ranger, who is?

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 02:06 PM

I need to go. I will hopefully be back before DL (If Brinn extends it by an hour or more), but just in case, I'll make it official:

++Shasta

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 02:13 PM

Shasta, there should be enought to wonder about the living, don't waste your energy on the dead. This game will end in one way or another in a few days, so I guess you can wait that much to find about the roles of the dead... unless of course you know enough about the living so you're only troubled by the dead and whether they're gifted as they claim or not? ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 02:18 PM

Macalaure

06-28-2009, 02:48 PM

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 03:12 PM

At the moment I died, I had no idea how much the danger to die affects one's motivation to participate. There is just no way in hell I could bring myself to scoop through 30 pages to sieve the posts of the remaining living, especially considering that no one is going to listen to me anyway ( :rolleyes: ). But I'll be around and comment.I noticed the very same thing. And I still haven't read through those two Days I missed in the beginnig of the game - and thence I'm a bit unsure with all these cases against or for Izzy, Shasta and Eönwë... It really does affect one's motivation. Agreed. Although had I been killed by Night by the mutineers I might have been more keen to get involved as some people might have listened to me. But looking at Boro's and Nerwen's reactions (in particular) it feels sometimes like a waste of time alltogether... and as you have seen, I have mainly commented on discussions that have been going on right when I have been around - and maybe on some general principles. That's where the lack of the threat of personal survival gets one into. Laziness and a kind of disinterestedness.

I think it's definitely worth to spend a thought or two on the dead, especially you and Nogrod, who are still participating lively and having influence. If someone could give us a convincing guess at the identities of the dead mutineers, it'd probably be the key to victory, since in the given setting, the mutineers were/are probably less careful in their interactions than usual.You're kind of right here and then at the same time looking like a bloody mutineer... Do you think Shasta would make a detailed overall analysis - from Day1 onwards to the present - or Eönwë... or even Izzy (well she might, possibly) - and then use hours to make the connections between what they had worked out from the dead to the present living? You're suggesting a sidetrack Mac and you know it.

There is no way to be sure about the dead - but there are chances of hitting it right with the living if you make an effort towards it. Using the energy to look at the dead - where nothing firm can be found - is waste of energy from this lazy crew we have alive. So let them stick to the actual matter at hand with the few posts they have an interest to make in the first place... :(

Could I prophetise that the dead will post more toDay than the living - even with these motivation-issues? :confused:

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 03:19 PM

Exactly, if there are dead players that seem to be holding particular sway over the surviving crew, I think we have to at least try to analyze their motivations. I'm not suggesting we ignore the living; not at all. But I'm not sure why it's such a big deal to Lommy that we focus solely on the living, especially when quite a few of the dead are continuing to be pretty vocal and influential. Fortunately there is a fair consensus regarding the alignments of several players (Lommy, Greenie, Sally, maybe Mac), so I don't think it will be necessary to go so far as lynching any ghosts yet.

Shoot, crossed with Nogrod.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 03:29 PM

I'm here...

I think Shasta is the evil one. Truly, Eönwë and Gwath sound honest to me, Izzy is a cobbler and trusting Greenie and what I'm seeing, I think Nerwen is probably an innocent (*sigh* I wish she'd been a cobbler, I'd feel much better about getting lynched).

I think we've caught three baddies this far, I have no idea who the third is, but two of the mutineers were Sally and Mac, I could bet a lot on that. So, as soon as I have the time, I will look through their posts and look for clues and see if my Shasta-hypothesis rings true or if someone else comes out looking worse...

What gives you the idea we've caught three? Is it statistics, or just a theory? Why do you think Shasta is the fourth?

I need to go. I will hopefully be back before DL (If Brinn extends it by an hour or more), but just in case, I'll make it official:

++Shasta

Eonwe, it kind of looks like you just pick up on whatever suspicion has recently been suggested and vote on it. Or did you give some reason somewhere for why you're voting Shasta and I just missed it?

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 03:33 PM

Oh, I guess Shasta did express some suspicion of Eonwe earlier. Well, that makes a little more sense, but still - if going with the flow was not Eonwe's typical M.O. (regardless of role), I would find that kind of ostensible attempt at bandwagoning pretty suspicious. As it is, I'm not sure that it can tell us much.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 03:36 PM

Well, I'll be back later. I intend to analyze Izzy and Shasta, who are the two biggest question marks for me. We'll see if I get around to it.

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 04:07 PM

Just a short peek-in before I go to sleep...

Oh, I guess Shasta did express some suspicion of Eonwe earlier. Well, that makes a little more sense, but still - if going with the flow was not Eonwe's typical M.O. (regardless of role), I would find that kind of ostensible attempt at bandwagoning pretty suspicious. As it is, I'm not sure that it can tell us much.

Bandwagon? I was the first one to suggest we lynch Shasta toDay.

Eönwë

06-28-2009, 04:08 PM

Anyone around?

edit: Oh well. I'll try to come back just before DL.

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 04:45 PM

Sally's interactions with those who still live

Eönwë
Day1 he banters with her, she thinks he is ok
Day3 he thinks she's innocent
Day4 he votes her
Day6 chatter

Gwath
Day1 she banters with him on Day, she says: "nothing on him, except that I like to rib him"
Day3 he questions Rikae over her
Day4 she wouldn't like to vote him to save herself, she votes him
Day7 he calls her a cobbler

Izzy
Day1 S has nothing about I
Day2 I accuses S on Day2, I debates voting S
Day3 I suspects S for the quick vote , I keeps suspecting S, I suspects S yet more
Day4 I is very suspicious of S
Day5 I notes it's interesting to see S is more active when dead

Nerwen
Day1 S doesn't suspect N on
Day4 N points a possible slip from S, N says S and Gwath can't be mutineers togethe
Day5 talk about Kath, slight suspicion back and forth
Day6 chat about N's misreadings
Day7 N says S has confessed she's evil

Shasta
Day1 she calls him "power-hungry son of a sea w(hor[s]e)", she votes him and gives him the second vote
Day3 she votes him right when the Day starts,
Day4 he is unsure about the wagon against her, he doesn't like her possibly trying to manipulate him, he votes her

Mac's interactions with those who still live

Eönwë
Day1 M lists E as "more innocent than guilty"
Day2 M lists E under "simply no idea"
Day3 E likes the stuff M's done, M has E leaning towards innocent
Day4 M says E is probably innocent
Day5 M says E needs a closer look, M says E is worth a raised eyebrow for being unreasonable
Day6 M has a bad feeling about E, M makes a really straw-grasping case on E and proclaims him guilty, E says M has started to look a little suspicious, M suspects the wolf pack consists of E + Lommy + Gwath, M thinks Lommy defending E is mutineer defending a fellow, E calls M Boromir under the influence of the Ring, E wonders about the M-Lommy argument, E votes M
Day7 E speculates rather thoroughly about possible M-scenarios, E votes M but mentions his retraction but then clarifies it's very unlikely he'll retract, M is confused about him

Gwath
Day1 talk about whether there'll be a double-lynch on, M lists G as "clueless" and wonder about his contribution, M dismisses the option of giving G a second vote based on his cluelessness
Day2 talk about whether to believe Greenie , M doesn't find G's vote suspicious on, G asks M to explain his vote
Day3 M wants to have another look at G, M suspects G on Annu is mutineer-on-mutineer, G answers M's suspicion, M says to G "while I agree that the other people voting for you may not have the best reasons, I'm afraid I still suspect you more than the rest o' the crew", M votes G
Day4 M is suspicious of G, M votes G
Day5 M thinks G had a reason to suspect he'd be picked by Rikae , M comments the votes: "Gwath is in the lead?? Yikes!"
Day6 M wonders if G'll be back since he's alive according to the lists, M is sure about G's guilt, M suspects the wolf pack consists of G + Lommy + Eönwë, M speculates about G's guilt
Day7 G needs more reading to determine whether M is ordo or wolf, G votes M, M decides G's innocent after all because he considered M was telling the truth

Izzy
Day1 he lists her under "clueless"
Day2 she accuses him, he lists her under "simply no idea", she remarks he's voting alongside a suspect of his, she debates voting him, she votes him
Day3 she wonders about him and Nog, she doesn't alarm him, she doesn't like him
Day4 he's fine with her, he thinks she didn't have a reason to suspect being picked by the hunter
Day5 she considers voting him, he says she's probably not a wolf but may be a cobbler
Day6 she debates voting him, he doubts she's a mutineer, she votes him, she says her vote signifies he's a mutineer, she thinks both he and Lommy are mutineers, he claims to have protected her, he tries to sweet-talk her to his side, she reatracts her vote for him
Day7 she rebukes him for twisting the truth, she says "Mac is... Mac"

Nerwen
Day1 he lists her under "clueless" and claims he won't be able to read her, he dismisses the option of giving her a second vote based on his cluelessness
Day2 he takes her word for Nog because of her known innocence on, he lists her as almost known innocent
Day3 he thinks Eomer's death solidates her innocence, she says he's speaking sense, she wonders if he and Nog are in cahoots
Day4 he calls her a quasi-known innocent, he explains her deathlessness, she says his guilt can't be ruled out because of Rikae's suspicion of him
Day6 he says she's probably innocent, she votes him, she wonders if his claim has credit, she retracts her vote for him and saves him
Day7 she speculates in which cases a wolf-Mac would be so resigned, she votes him

Shasta
Day1 M lists S as "more guilty than innocent"
Day2 S says "An' he keeps 'em pearly white, Mac." (no idea what he's referring to!), M's reply is "An' ye be keepin' it out of sight, I reckon?", M says S is getting "worked up" so he's probably innocent, M is doubtful about S and thinks he may be a cobbler
Day3 M thinks S may be a co-consp but nothing worse
Day4 M keeps saying S may be a cobbler, M reminds S that the vote is up to him
Day5 S thinks M+Lommy stuff is staged, M says S has slipped his attention, M says S is too much in the shadows but genuinely helpful, S repeats suspicion of a stage act, M asks S who he's going to vote
Day6 S asks M to clarify stuff, M feels good about S, S thinks both M and Lommy are mutineers, S believes M's ranger claim, S defends M's claim
Day7 S is unsure about M, S is tempted to vote M but still unsure

And that's it. Thoughts coming in a separate post, this is too long already.

edit: mass-xed

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 05:00 PM

I think Eönwë may look the worst. Mac and he ignored each other pretty much, Mac kept calling him rather innocent and then, when suspicion was building against him, he attacked Eönwë with a totally stupid case. I'm only wondering if he'd turned on his fellow when they were still so close to the victory...

It's pretty clear Izzy and Gwath aren't mutineers. Izzy's attacks against Mac and Sally are relentless, so I can't see them being in cahoots. Gwath then - Mac voted him for two Days in a row and suspected him really all along until his last post alive.

Nerwen I'm ignoring because she's not anything worse than a cobbler but it might be of use for Izzy to check my notes, and it's good they exist for argument.

Shasta then... this is the tricky case. If he's a mutineer, Sally is a mere co-consp. For who'd vote their fellow two times in a row, both times possibly risking his neck? Shasta's interactions with Mac puzzle me. They were clearly allied, but why? Because they're mutineers who knew they had to stick together to win (quickly)? Or because Shasta believed Mac and he abused it? It makes sense that the mutineers would have stuck together as long as possible, especially if they had hopes of co-consps being around. But then again, would they dare to be so darn obvious? And is Mac twice reminding Shasta he has the decisive vote too obvious to be a sign of alliance?

I suggest one of Eönwë and Shasta is lynched toDay and the other one toMorrow if needs be.

PS. And what's this nonsense about the dead losing motivation? Are you evil or lazy? :p

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 05:05 PM

I think I'm going to sleep soon, this time I have no interest to keep me awake all night. ;) Just, I want to say something I was reminded of when I was rereading - I'm so glad Boro turned out innocent. I'm glad because it proves my boroscope is working, proves I wasn't manipulated and proves that sometimes it's worth it to trust another player in ww even if you have no way of knowing each other's roles. :)

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 05:09 PM

PS. And what's this nonsense about the dead losing motivation? Are you evil or lazy? :pLazy... or not willing to pull all life aside because of the game where already dead - and lagging behind a few Days anyway... and because there is nothing one could deduce without hours of searching which just doesn't interest with the status I have... (nobody listens anyway - look at Boro's and Nerwen's reactions...) :rolleyes:

I'm so glad Boro turned out innocent.I wouldn't call that a fact looking how stubbornly misguided he has been... a co-conspie he must be. He is more sensible when pure innocent.

this time I have no interest to keep me awake all night. What were you asking of us others just a moment ago? :D

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 05:14 PM

Nog, you could've used all the time you've hanged around here up until now... :rolleyes:

And as for Boro, well, he could be a co-conspie, but it doesn't matter, he never messed my mind too badly and they can be forgiven for manipulating because that's their job, but a manipulating mutineer is the same as the first word in the combination of words that signifies a sword that can be wielded with one or two hands... :p And I think he was an ordo.

Macalaure

06-28-2009, 05:21 PM

Gah, I thought I could get away with little participation today, but now Lommy is using the fact that many people foolishly believe her ranger-claim to make big outrageous cases.

Please, people, when reading that, always keep in mind that,
1) You don't know what her role is.
2) Her analysis depends entirely on Sally and me being mutineer role. The latter is wrong, though inanely consistent for her, the former is a fallacy, since Sally could just as well be a conspirator (think about it just once: the fact that she admitted to being evil makes conspiration infinitely more likely than mutiny).

I think a similar analysis of Lommy is due, if only for some balance.

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 05:22 PM

I think I'm going to sleep soon, this time I have no interest to keep me awake all night. Just, I want to say something I was reminded of when I was rereading - I'm so glad Boro turned out innocent. I'm glad because it proves my boroscope is working, proves I wasn't manipulated and proves that sometimes it's worth it to trust another player in ww even if you have no way of knowing each other's roles. ~Lommy
See it's not ever over yet and you already know you were right about 2 people. :p Trust, trust, trust, sometimes that's the only way I can ever figure anything out, and if you are being pulled around by someone, just say well done when it's all over and shrug it off. ;)

I wouldn't call that a fact looking how stubbornly misguided he has been... a co-conspie he must be. He is more sensible when pure innocent.~Nogrod
Haha, I'm not stubborn when I'm innocent, that's the first time someone's told me that.:rolleyes:

And you must have not been in Mith's game when I was the cobbler...I think if Mith or someone who was a wolf/in that game would tell you I made a very sensible cobbler, dropping hints to the wolves as to who I was so I didn't die, and lasting until the end once the wolves decided they lynch me they win. Gwath may be able to tell you that, I think he was a wolf in that one.

Thinlómien

06-28-2009, 05:28 PM

I'm far from certain that Sally was a mutineer and not a co-conspie, but as you see, it's taken into account. And I'm certain you're a mutineer (funny you say nothing about that ;)), you made it sure if not otherwise then by that silly ranger claim.

People have no way of knowing my role, yes, that's true, but they can still see what I say and judge with their own judgement. Or are you afraid of their judgement? Poor desperate mutineer. ;)

Going to sleep now. Good night!

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 05:28 PM

Also, if I had any sort of role that was somewhat importantin this game, I doubt I woud have went out at noon to start pre-gaming for US v. Brazil and spent 6 hours at a sports bar getting my hopes up for the 1st half just to see them smashed in the last half. I'd spend some more time here, trying to work some magic...hmm actually I think before now I only had 2 posts today...

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 05:48 PM

Nog, you could've used all the time you've hanged around here up until now... :rolleyes:I haven't actually hung around even if I have posted... I have written the Arda Football Cup match descriptions, making dinner to myself, watching the Confederations Cup finals from the telly... I've just occasionally checked this thread.

Something in what you say - overall, not just that particular one - bothers me Lommy. Dang, it was looking so easy (choose from three) just before you started posting toDay... But I'm afraid I'm out of fuel to start turning all the stuff around this Day any more (2.40AM).

Haha, I'm not stubborn when I'm innocentThat's exactly what I was saying. I said you are more sensible when innocent - and less stubbornly misguided - as your stubborness is an intentional misbehaviour when you're a baddie of some sort. :rolleyes:

Also, if I had any sort of role that was somewhat importantin this game, I doubt I woud have went out at noon to start pre-gaming for US v. Brazil and spent 6 hours at a sports bar getting my hopes up for the 1st half just to see them smashed in the last half.Talking about convincing arguments... :D

Of course you went to see the game - and it was a good one! All the merit to the US team. They fought valiantly but Brazil is... well just Brazil...

But why did you actually think it worth mentioning in the first place - or thinking it fit to make explanations on your inactivity toDay Boro? Interesting... and dreadful indeed, looking at the possible implications.

Boromir88

06-28-2009, 06:06 PM

You seem to be under the impression the still living have somehow been taking me more worthy of trustworthiness than I have taken of you. Not sure what gives you that impression, considering I haven't done much since Mac's lynching.

The reason I still don't take you serious Nogrod, is because you still haven't admitted that you have been still showing a persistent caring in what happens, despite your protests that you really don't. It's makes it look like you have more to lose than I do.

Mac's lynched, you're a ghost, I'm a ghost, my conscience is clear, now it's time to tune in to this SVU marathon on TV...hmm probably the only Law and Order I will ever watch. So, I bid ye goodnight.

Nogrod

06-28-2009, 06:50 PM

The reason I still don't take you serious Nogrod, is because you still haven't admitted that you have been still showing a persistent caring in what happens, despite your protests that you really don't. It's makes it look like you have more to lose than I do.You should know me better Boro... Of course I care how the game ends. I'm just fighting against my bad conscience of not doing more (like actually forcing myself to read the Days I missed etc.). Yes, I feel bad of not doing more - while I sometimes actually think "why bother"...

Anyway, good night you living-lazybones... :rolleyes:

Looking at Lommy's list of interactions - with Mac (I'm not too sure Sally was a mutineer, maybe rather one of the thousand co-conspies) - I'd say Shasta might be a good idea to try out. I mean that looks suspicious indeed.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 06:57 PM

What gives you the idea we've caught three? Is it statistics, or just a theory?

Well... there is a logical reason, but I'm not sure if it's what Lommy had in mind. Given what has happened– or rather failed to happen– toDay, I'd guess that we do not have two wolves plus Izzy. I could be wrong, though– they could be hedging their bets in case she doesn't show up.

Eonwe, it kind of looks like you just pick up on whatever suspicion has recently been suggested and vote on it. Or did you give some reason somewhere for why you're voting Shasta and I just missed it?

Bandwagon? I was the first one to suggest we lynch Shasta toDay.

Yes, Eönwë suggested Shasta off his own bat... but he still hasn't given a reason (other than, "he's still alive").

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 07:33 PM

Nice of you to finally hop on the "Izzy is a Cobbler" Train Shasta.

Nice of you as well Eonwe. Both of you need to pay double for jumping on so late. Plus double that for being wrong.

No, Nerwen. Perhaps you need to go and re-read my posts.
I haven't hinted at anything.
This has been covered already.

Haha. Had to pre-emptive it eh?

Which is it Nerwen? Wolf or Cobbler. I can't be both. Unluckily for you, I am neither.

Boro - Nerwen will probably still try to "look innocent", even though she isn't.

Interesting that you "suddenly" step up your post count and involvement Nerwen. ;)

What exactly is "the profile" of a Cobbler, Shasta? And how do I "fit it better"?

Izzy is not a Cobbler.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 07:35 PM

ToDay, my vote will be for Nerwen or Shasta. I think.

Though Eonwe already voting for Shasta makes me pause.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 07:50 PM

Haha. Had to pre-emptive it eh?

Oh, you were going to play Seer? Ha ha yourself.:p

Which is it Nerwen? Wolf or Cobbler. I can't be both. Unluckily for you, I am neither.

If you're neither I should rather say, "unluckily for the village". People say you're a Cobbler because you're acting like one. They also say you might be a wolf... because that's pretty much the only other thing you could be.

Once again: it makes no sense whatever to think I'm a mutineer at this stage. Yet you're still talking of voting me!

Not the action of an innocent, Izzy.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 07:57 PM

I don't know. I suppose it's out of Eönwë and Shasta now.

So–

++ Eönwë

Of the two, he's looked worse toDay.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 08:46 PM

And yes, this is one situation in which I feel entirely justified in suspecting anyone who suspects me of being a wolf. - Nerwen

Haha. Had to pre-emptive it eh? - Izzy

"Not the action of an innocent, Izzy."

I think I've said the same of you Nerwen.
I've even elaborated on why I don't think you've been acting like an innocent.
Yet I think it took another person, or persons of calling me a Cobbler- before you hopped on the wagon.

Yes. Wolf or Cobbler.
It really does depend on what post is being read of yours. ;)

How am I acting like a Cobbler?

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 08:47 PM

How is it out of Eonwe and Shasta?

Only one person had made their vote.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 08:49 PM

++Eonwe

For reasons previously stated.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 08:52 PM

Feel free to answer the questions before deadline Shasta.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 08:56 PM

If you're talking about the "profile of a Cobbler" question, Izzy, it's because you've repeatedly ignored Greenie's Seer claim and tried to paint Nerwen as a mutineer, without giving a single good reason why Greenie's claim is false.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:02 PM

"Not the action of an innocent, Izzy."

I think I've said the same of you Nerwen.
I've even elaborated on why I don't think you've been acting like an innocent.
Yet I think it took another person, or persons of calling me a Cobbler- before you hopped on the wagon

I've been saying you were evil for Days. I don't know if I was the first (I think that was Rikae) but I don't see that as relevant. Nobody could act as you have and fail to be suspected. How could you expect otherwise?

Yes. Wolf or Cobbler.
It really does depend on what post is being read of yours. ;

No. Mostly I think you're a cobbler, but now and then I have a nasty moment of doubt where I think, "Surely a real cobbler wouldn't be so blatant?"

How am I acting like a Cobbler?

I've already given the number one reason. More than once, I believe. It doesn't matter whether you think I'm "acting like an innocent". You cannot logically think it likely I'm a mutineer, and that's what matters now.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta and Izzy (2 of each).

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 09:03 PM

Profile.. implies a text-book definition.

Is that your textbook definition? xD

Oh, I've covered this topic already. I believe it was perhaps my first post after Greenie claimed Seer.

What adds to not believing the claim, is Nerwen's behavior. Which I've also covered in previous posts.

I also don't believe I've done it repeatedly. I think.. twice, maybe three times.

X'd with Nerwen.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 09:05 PM

You cannot logically think it likely I'm a mutineer, and that's what matters now.

Why not?

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:09 PM

Why not?

Why did the real Seer not dream me? Why has he or she still not come forward?

...Why am I even bothering to argue with you?:rolleyes:

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 09:13 PM

Have you forgotten about those... modkilled already?

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:23 PM

Have you forgotten about those... modkilled already?

So... your whole theory is based on the Seer being Wilwa? And on Wilwa keeping silent even when she dropped out of the game... knowing that she could be dooming the village?

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 09:42 PM

Hahaha. Not at all.

++Shasta

;)

Brinniel

06-28-2009, 09:47 PM

Do you guys need extra time? I can extend the deadline a bit since I started the Day late. Though I don't think I can extend it anymore than an hour as I do want to go to bed soon.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:48 PM

Do you guys need extra time? I can extend the deadline a bit since I started the Day late. Though I don't think I can extend it anymore than an hour as I do want to go to bed soon.

Please. Gwath hasn't voted yet.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 09:51 PM

I'm fine with ending now, but I'm probably biased.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:52 PM

*sigh* I've made a tactical error here: I should have held my vote until Izzy had voted. Now if I retract and vote Eönwë again, she can do the same with Shasta. I was too afraid of my connection going out- it's been horrible lately.

Oh well. For all I know, it is Shasta– in which case the joke's on Izzy.

EDIT: Sorry, it's the first to reach the tie that dies. I could have sworn it was the other way around when I checked it ten minutes ago. Odd.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 09:56 PM

How is the joke on me now?

I think Shasta pretty much admitted to something there. You admitting to something as well?

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 09:59 PM

How is the joke on me now?

I meant if you lynched Shasta and he was a wolf, obviously.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:00 PM

Yes. But I'm not a Cobbler.

The only way the joke could be on me.. is if I was the only innocent left. :)

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:02 PM

Yes. But I'm not a Cobbler.

The only way the joke could be on me.. is if I was the only innocent left. :)

If you're innocent, my dear, the joke is on all of us.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:03 PM

Just think about it.
Five people left. Probably one cobbler and one wolf left.

People have been saying (even writing me off as one,)I am a Cobbler for Days. With probability of being a wolf.

So why would I continue denying?
If I were a Cobbler, I would either admit it - or actually try to get lynched.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:03 PM

While we're here... Izzy, what is your theory, since it's "not at all" what I outlined?

EDIT:X'd with Izzy.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:05 PM

Oh, I think the joke is on all of us.

Beside the point, was there any inclination that Gwath was coming back?

X'd with Nerwen.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:05 PM

Izzy, I was gone for a couple of days, so would you mind summarizing what you think is wrong with Nerwen? I'm really having a hard time seeing how you can seem to be so suspicious of her. Obviously we can't totally assume that anyone is either innocent or guilty, but if we have a good idea about anybody's role, it's Nerwen's I think. And how has her behavior seemed suspicious?

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:05 PM

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:09 PM

So you're saying you're a wolf, then?

I don't know what she's doing, but it doesn't make any sense.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:10 PM

I'm not a Cobbler, or a Wolf. Nor am I gifted.

Now, what does that leave?

Cannon Fodder of the Ordo kind. xD

Gwath.
I think Nerwen is suspicious because of her behavior.
People seemed to believe Greenie's claim of seership. By believing that, they believe Nerwen is an innocentordo, or a Cobbler.

Yet no one seemed to really factor in that she could be a Cobbler, until later Days.

As I said before. I've seen her where she was a known innocent, and she behaved drastically different then, as opposed to now. Yes, you could say that is metagaming, styles change... yadda yadda.

However, she wasn't even trying to act like a "known" innocent, which most seemed to write her off as. She wasn't giving reasons with her votes, or suspicions - if at all. She followed others a lot.

If you are in that position of being a "known" innocent, then it can be all too easy for others to follow you. Yet she wasn't watching herself. So her flimsy reasons on voting for people and suspicions, became even more flimsy when/if someone followed her with them.

X'd with Gwath.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:13 PM

I don't know what she's doing, but it doesn't make any sense.

It does if she's a cobbler and, in her own words, "actually trying to get lynched" now.

EDIT:X'd with Izzy.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:13 PM

Cannon Fodder Ordo's don't have to make sense.
I just am.
;)

X'd with Nerwen.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:14 PM

Nope, not trying to get lynched.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:15 PM

Huh. This is looking more and more like one of those innocent vs. innocent brawls where the village always loses. Nogrod and I have had several of those. That would leave Eonwe and Shasta - but Eonwe's trying to get Shasta killed, so if either one of them is a mutineer, it's probably Eonwe.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:17 PM

Would it not be funny if Gwath is a Mutineer?

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:19 PM

I don't know about "funny," per se.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:19 PM

Shasta is also trying to get Eonwe killed....

X'd with Gwath.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-28-2009, 10:20 PM

Izzy, yes, it's possible on an outside chance that Nerwen's a cobbler, but frankly there are several better candidates for Cobblership, which is why no one's given that possibility much thought.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:20 PM

People seemed to believe Greenie's claim of seership. By believing that, they believe Nerwen is an innocentordo, or a Cobbler.

No, Izzy, you can't just say that. You have to come up with a theory that plausibly accounts for the lack of counter-reveals. I've asked you for it already.

What is it?

However, she wasn't even trying to act like a "known" innocent, which most seemed to write her off as. She wasn't giving reasons with her votes, or suspicions - if at all. She followed others a lot.

My schedule most Days has forced me to leave early and then return an hour before DL. Therefore I've often had to make snap decisions. That's all.

Besides, what happened to your repeated claim that I was trying to look innocent?

You see? You can't even get your own story straight.

EDIT: X'd since my last post.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:23 PM

Cannon Fodder Ordo's don't have to make sense.

Yes, they do.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:25 PM

Shasta is also trying to get Eonwe killed....

Has he voted for him and I just didn't notice?

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:25 PM

No they don't. Nothing has to make sense, people just have become accustomed to things that make sense, and so prefer it. Nothing has to have order either.
So when things that "don't make sense" to you appear, you immediately make a judgement call and try to fit it into preconceived notions and ideals.

Hehehe.
You wish my I had issues with my "story".
There are no issues and you know it.
;)

X'd with Gwath.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:27 PM

I believe the vote tally stands at...

Eonwe -> Shasta
Nerwen -> Eonwe
Shasta -> Eonwe 2
Izzy -> Shasta 2

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:30 PM

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:33 PM

Gwath, what I think is happening is that Cobbler-Izzy believes Eonwe is a wolf and is trying to get me so rattled that I switch my vote to her.

She appears to have given up on actually making a case against me– in fact, she's now, it seems, admitted she doesn't have one.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:35 PM

Like I've said before - don't try putting words into my mouth. Don't twist my words either Nerwen.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:40 PM

Like I've said before - don't try putting words into my mouth. Don't twist my words either Nerwen.

Well, what are you saying, then?

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:43 PM

../
./
/______ is not a Cobbler. Not a Mutineer. Not a Gifted.
\
.\
..\

Edit. Well then silly spacing doesn't stay spaced.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:47 PM

Just about bed-time for Gwathy, but here's what's going on in my head.

I thought for a while that Izzy might be a cobbler trying to attract votes away from Shasta and Eonwe, but I see now that she voted for Shasta, so that doesn't make sense. I suppose she could conceivably be a mutineer, but she's been going after Nerwen pretty aggressively - so if Izzy's a mutineer, than I'd bet that she's got another mutineer working with her (at the very least she would have to be cooperating with a cobbler), since a lone mutineer would likely play conservatively. Or a lone mutineer Izzy would anyway, I'd guess.

I really think Nerwen is probably innocent, which is what makes me wonder about Izzy.

Shasta and Eonwe are enigmas for me. I can't remember them doing anything noteworthy - which I guess does concern me a bit, as there's always at least one wolf who plays it quiet. Shasta has done that on at least one occasion. I honestly can't remember what Eonwe's like as a wolf.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:48 PM

../
./
/______ is not a Cobbler. Not a Mutineer. Not a Gifted.
\
.\
..\

Edit. Well then silly spacing doesn't stay spaced.

ARRRRGH! Yes, I know you're claiming to be innocent! You've said that about fifty times.

The important part is that you keep saying I'm guilty and that Greenie must be lying... but you won't explain how that can be.

And now you "don't have to make sense" at all. How very convenient.

Brinniel

06-28-2009, 10:48 PM

I hope an extra hour is enough...deadline is in fifteen minutes (1am EST). I can't stay awake any longer than that. :rolleyes:

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:52 PM

Ok, Eonwe, I'm narrowing it down to you. There's no way Izzy's a lone wolf, not the way she's playing. She's either a cobbler or a wolf with a pal. She's attacking Nerwen and she's voted for Shasta, which leaves you.

++Eonwe

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:53 PM

I thought for a while that Izzy might be a cobbler trying to attract votes away from Shasta and Eonwe, but I see now that she voted for Shasta, so that doesn't make sense. I suppose she could conceivably be a mutineer, but she's been going after Nerwen pretty aggressively - so if Izzy's a mutineer, than I'd bet that she's got another mutineer working with her (at the very least she would have to be cooperating with a cobbler), since a lone mutineer would likely play conservatively.

I said this before: if there's two mutineers, Izzy's probably one of them. Otherwise they'd know there was a cobbler (Izzy) around and they could come out in the open.

EDIT:X'd with Gwath.

Gwathagor

06-28-2009, 10:54 PM

I said this before: if there's two mutineers, Izzy's probably one of them. Otherwise they'd know there was a cobbler (Izzy) around and they could come out in the open.

RIght. And I agree.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:56 PM

:)

Congratulations I think are in order for the Mutineers & Cobblers, I'm guessing?

If so, too bad I wasn't either one.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 10:58 PM

:)

Congratulations I think are in order for the Mutineers & Cobblers, I'm guessing?

If so, too bad I wasn't either one.

If you are innocent you've played like a lunatic and have no business gloating.

Isabellkya

06-28-2009, 10:59 PM

*shrug*

Wasn't gloating. Merely congratulating them if they won.

Izzy can be a bored Cannon Fodder Ordo ya know.
Weird behavior doesn't HAVE to mean Cobblerism.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 11:00 PM

Oh, and congratulations on making me waste much time arguing with you.

EDIT: X'd with Izzy.

Nerwen

06-28-2009, 11:03 PM

Izzy can be a bored Cannon Fodder Ordo ya know.
Weird behavior doesn't HAVE to mean Cobblerism.

If you acted as you did just out of boredom, you were still playing for the evil side– even if not officially.

Brinniel

06-28-2009, 11:06 PM

Deadline. Eonwe will be lynched.

The game isn't over quite yet; there is still one more Day to go.

-------------

The Living:

-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate
-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey

Night 9 has begun. Choices, please.

Brinniel

06-29-2009, 10:05 PM

A mutineer has overthrown yer first mate. Poor Shark Tooth Shasta be now Shark Bait Shasta. :p

----------

The Living:

-Almost-Blind Nerwen ~ Navigator/Sea Artist
-Cowerin' Gwath Slasher ~ Powder Monkey
-Ham-Hands Izzy ~ Striker

The Ghosted:

-Black Death Brinn ~ Captain ~ shish kabobed (mod)
-Slippery McCabbie Dagger ~ Boatswain ~ danced the hempen jig
-Lil' Green the Staggering Drunk ~ Powder Monkey ~ drank up all the rum
-Dancin' Mira Blythe ~ Striker ~ danced her way off the deck
-Whinin’ Eomer Bonny ~ Musician (Pur-loined Violin) ~ his pur-loined violin pur-loined him
-High-Pitched Annu ~ Surgeon ~ halved by her own saw
-Stutterin’ Wilwa Scab ~ Cook ~ gave her heart to Davy Jones
-Legless Sally Dawkins ~ Carpenter ~ was shark bait for a day
-Puffy Shirt Rikae ~ Cabin Boy ~ was never fond of pointy objects
-Pirate Nogrod the Fashionably Late ~ Gunner ~ had an unfriendly encounter with cold steel
-Poop Deck Kath ~ Musician (Pipe) ~ death by seagull
-Gangrenous Inziladun Jones ~ Pilot ~ was a little too attached to the wheel
-Pirate Lommy the Infected ~ Quartermaster ~ mobbed by her own mob
-Pirate Boromir the Malformed ~ Gunner ~ cannon fodder
-Snifflin’ Mac Sparrow ~ Cooper
-Short Ruth Mithril ~ Cook
-Stinkin' Eön Bloodbeard ~ Powder Monkey
-Shark Tooth Shasta ~ First mate

It's your final Day, so make the most out of it. :smokin:

Shastanis Althreduin

06-29-2009, 10:07 PM

Would you like me to wait until you get back to say "I told you so", Lom-mutineer?

Horrible, horrible people. I had such a plan set up for today, too.

Isabellkya

06-29-2009, 10:10 PM

Exactly what are you admitting to, Shark Bait?

Hehe. Shark Bait is much more fun to say than Shasta. xD

Isabellkya

06-29-2009, 10:22 PM

You shouldn't of killed Shasta.

I really thought he was the Mutineer, and was completely ready to vote for him once Day started, and if I was still alive. ;)

One of "each" left then eh?

Shastanis Althreduin

06-29-2009, 10:24 PM

Meh. My plan was to come out at the very beginning of the day as the baddie, claim the win, and have the cobbler vote with me against the real baddie.

Would have been the first time an innocent claimed baddie to win. Ah well.

Isabellkya

06-29-2009, 10:27 PM

Ahh.

So which one is which? ;)

Gwathagor

06-29-2009, 10:32 PM

This is the perennial question.

Rikae

06-29-2009, 10:32 PM

Wow, last day.

*eats popcorn*

Oh, by the way, I actually am a mutineer - the special alpha-mutineer with the power to have an extra kill one night - which happens to be the night my companions stabbed me in the back. Curses!

;)

Isabellkya

06-29-2009, 10:39 PM

I think "logically" it would be Gwath the mutineer and Nerwen the probable Cobbler; if you believe Greenie's claim.

If you were paranoid, and trying to delve into conspiracy-land Nerwen would be the Mutineer - and both Gwath and I as the innocents.
..

Because obviously the Mutineer(s) wanted to keep the Cobbler(s) around as long as they could, the same for their Mutie pals.

So why waste a kill on Nerwen or myself? Both of us whom were suspected/labeled as Cobblers. Though myself moreso than Nerwen.

If Nerwen were the Mutineer, why kill Shasta over Gwath; since Shasta looked to be a better lynch candidate than Gwath.

One of you can make a theory as to how/why I would be the Mutineer here.

Nerwen

06-29-2009, 10:42 PM

Meh. My plan was to come out at the very beginning of the day as the baddie, claim the win, and have the cobbler vote with me against the real baddie.

Unfortunately there is no point my trying this. Very clever, Wolf.

I wonder if you're Gwath after all? When Eonwe's death didn't end the game, I thought it must be Shasta or Izzy. I mean, if I've been spared because of Izzy's fixation on me, that suggests it's not Izzy.

Not sure, because I don't understand how Izzy thinks, and if she's a wolf she's a lone wolf now...

EDIT:X'd since Izzy at 1227.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-29-2009, 10:46 PM

Unfortunately there is no point my trying this. Very clever, Wolf.

I wonder if you're Gwath after all? When Eonwe's death didn't end the game, I thought it must be Shasta or Izzy. I mean, if I've been spared because of Izzy's fixation on me, that suggests it's not Izzy.

Not sure, because I don't understand how Izzy thinks, and if she's a wolf she's a lone wolf now...

EDIT:X'd since Izzy at 1227.

Right, cause the mutineers totally would have killed a mutineer. Geez. I PMed my strategy to Brinn earlier today and everything, cause I was so happy to have thought of it, and now I'm dead and disappointed. Excuuuse me.

Isabellkya

06-29-2009, 10:50 PM

I'm doubting that there were two Mutineers hanging around yesterDay.

Otherwise.. if Gwath is the Mutie - well he just added his vote on Eonwe, so it didn't really matter. Since Eonwe was already sentenced to death by Shark Bait. I doubt Shark Bait would've unvoted and voted for himself, and I don't think you wouldn't done so either Nerwen.

Nerwen

06-29-2009, 10:54 PM

Right, cause the mutineers totally would have killed a mutineer. Geez.

Huh? I'm not addressing you as "Wolf"!:rolleyes:

Is that what you thought?

Shastanis Althreduin

06-29-2009, 11:39 PM

Huh? I'm not addressing you as "Wolf"!:rolleyes:

Is that what you thought?

...Yes.

*blush*

Nogrod

06-30-2009, 07:55 AM

Okay, I just don't get it. :confused:

Any reasonable lone-mutineer would try to have as "lynchable" fellows around her/him on the last Day. But what did s/he do? Killed Shasta!

Now we have the two only people in this game a kind of case could be made they are not mutineers eg. Nerwen (via dream) and Gwath (via mutineers attacking hunter-Rikae suspecting ang voting for him).

If you Izzy actually are the last mutineer... *shakes head and rolls eyes*

So what other possibilities there are?

Greenie was a co-conspie and made the swindle of the year choosing Nerwen - and getting it right from what, four out of twenty possibilities eg. 1/5! Thus Nerwen is the mutineer. That would explain why she continues to live - but as I said already yesterDay: the dynamics of this game sure are different and there probably isn't the same urge here to get rid of "known innocents".

The mutineers went for Rikae who was a self-confessed hunter. And even if she suspected Gwath heavily & even voted for him, still with mutineer-Gwath in the pack they decided to go for her? Okay. This I find even less believable than Greenie's possible hoax. It's suicidal for the mutineers to attack a hunter suspecting heavily one of their own. I just don't buy it. Although it's interesting why they attacked Rikae in the first place? One would think the mutineers would let the hunter stay as there are risks in killing her.

Blah... It must be Izzy. But why did she play her cards this way were she a mutineer? Beats me...

Interesting scheme Shasta! I would have loved to see it unfold!

Buit it would have been pretty complicated indeed and have different result-options depending on fex. whether there are two inncents or one innocent and one co-conspie alongside the last mutineer.

Heh, just thinking about one option (with one cobbler still in the game):

Player X: "HAhaa, I'm the mutineer, now you co-op, vote with me for Player Y!"
Player Y: "Wait a minute! I'm the mutineer. Let's vote that lousy trickster-goodie X off!"
Player Z (Cobbler): Hmph... :confused:

:D

Isabellkya

06-30-2009, 09:00 AM

Nice try Nog. ;)

Then how do you explain Gwath not being eaten by modkilling.. for not voting three days(?) in a row?

Nerwen, why were you wanting to wait yesterDay for Gwath to vote?

Did you think his vote would make a difference and matter, or just didn't want him to be modkilled?

Nerwen

06-30-2009, 09:16 AM

The mutineers went for Rikae who was a self-confessed hunter. And even if she suspected Gwath heavily & even voted for him, still with mutineer-Gwath in the pack they decided to go for her? Okay. This I find even less believable than Greenie's possible hoax. It's suicidal for the mutineers to attack a hunter suspecting heavily one of their own. I just don't buy it. Although it's interesting why they attacked Rikae in the first place? One would think the mutineers would let the hunter stay as there are risks in killing her.

I can only make the same suggestion I did then: maybe there were still four wolves then, and they thought it worth the risk.

Blah... It must be Izzy. But why did she play her cards this way were she a mutineer? Beats me...

*shrugs* Maybe so much of her fake-cobbler act was built around attacking me that she didn't know what to do without me. Or maybe she thinks she's made a far more convincing case against me than she actually has.

I agree it certainly ought to be Izzy... I'm just trying to work out whether that's too easy.

There is one thing in Izzy's favour, and that's her reaction to Rikae's death and yours. It looks evil, but it also looks like the response of someone who was not expecting to find Rikae dead, i.e. not a wolf. However, if she's a wolf she's been working very hard at cobbler-impersonation.

EDIT:X'd with Izzy.

Nerwen

06-30-2009, 09:18 AM

post deleted because I accidentally quoted my last post instead of editing it.

Nerwen

06-30-2009, 09:23 AM

Nice try Nog. ;)

Then how do you explain Gwath not being eaten by modkilling.. for not voting three days(?) in a row?

Well– I'd hope Brinniel wouldn't allow a Gwathwolf to win that way.

Nerwen, why were you wanting to wait yesterDay for Gwath to vote?

Did you think his vote would make a difference and matter, or just didn't want him to be modkilled?

Both– the former because I got confused about the voting rules, and thought Shasta was doomed without another vote on Eonwe.

Isabellkya

06-30-2009, 09:27 AM

If I'm lynched, game over and innocents lose.

Of course I'm hoping that there isn't a Mutineer, a Cobbler, and an Ordo - here. Because that would just be.... a bit evil.

If that is the case, trying to figure out who the real Mutie is, Cobbler?

I think it could be Gwath just a smidge more over Nerwen.

If Nerwen were the Mutineer, then why choose Shasta over Gwath?

hmm.
I'll probably make my vote in the next twenty minutes. Since I'll be blowing stuff up all day, since this is our last Day... and Miss Mod said to make the most of it. :D

X'd with Nerwen.

Isabellkya

06-30-2009, 09:44 AM

Day One:

Day two:
Nerwen -> Zil
Mith -> Nog
annu -> Shasta
Rikae -> Shasta (2)
Kath -> Annu
Eomer -> Mira
Shasta -> Rikae
Wilwa -> Eonwe
Rikae -- Shasta
-> Mira (2)
Nog -> Eomer
Mac -> Eomer (2)
Boro -> Mira (3)
Zil -> Annu (2)
Gwath -> Mira (4)
Izzy -> Mac

Day Three:

Sally -> Shasta
Nog -> Annu
Boro -> Nog
Rikae -> Sally
Mith -> Nog (2)
Shasta -> Annu (2)
Wilwa -> Gwath
Eonwe -> Gwath (2)
Nerwen -> RIkae
Kath -> Annu (3)
Lommy -> Gwath (3)
Zil -> Rikae (2)
Mac -> Gwath (4)
Nerwen -- RIkae
Izzy -> Nog (3)
Nerwen -> Annu (4)
Gwath -> Annu (5)

Day Four:

Rikae -> Gwath
Nerwen -> Gwath (2)
Mith -> Sally
Lommy -> Sally (2)
Izzy -> Izzy
Eonwe -> Sally (3)
Zil -> Sally (4)
Boro -> Gwath (3)
Mac -> Gwath (4)
Shasta -> Sally (5)
Sally -> Gwath (5)

Day Five:

Nerwen -> Gwath
Mith -> Izzy
Lommy -> Mac
Kath -> Gwath (2)
Boro -> Nog
Eonwe -> Zil (not bolded)
Boro --Nog
Izzy -> Nerwen
Boro -> Kath
Zil -> Kath (2)
Shasta -> Kath (3)
Mac -> Kath (4)
Nerwen --Gwath
-> Izzy (2)
Mac -- Kath
-> Izzy (3)

Day Six:

Izzy -> Mac
Nerwen -> Mac (2)
Lommy -> Mac (3)
Mith -> Gwath
Eonwe -> Mac (4)
Boro -> Mac (5)
Shasta -> Lommy
Izzy --Mac
-> Lommy (2)
Mac -> Lommy (3)
Nerwen --Mac
-> Lommy (4)

Day Seven:

Mith -> Mac
Eonwe -> Mac (2)
Nerwen -> Mac (3)
Gwath -> Mac (4)
Izzy -> Nerwen

Day Eight:

Eonwe -> Shasta
Nerwen -> Eonwe
Shasta -> Eonwe (2)
Izzy -> Shasta (2)
Gwath -> Eonwe (3)

Actually, I'll hold off on my vote.
I'm posting this now, will add analysis a bit later.

Isabellkya

06-30-2009, 09:50 AM

Day Four voting speaks in Gwath's favor... if one of Mac/Sally is a wolf.

Day Three a bit as well... again if one of Mac/Lommy is a wolf.

Day Five, does Nerwen come out of the gating, wanting to vote for GWath in hopes that he would be lynched, since the Day before he almost was?

Some of Nerwen's voting is a bit in her favor. She has frequently voted at the beginning of the line. So that speaks a bit in her favor, because what wolf would vote first.. yet it could be due to time constraints. However, her voting choices are suspect. Wolf having to vote that early.. can probably be a bit more daring in their vote... try to get the votes going in that direction?

Mithalwen

06-30-2009, 10:29 AM

Oh Issy why do you have to confuse things by becoming a sane useful member of society now? :p

Has Gwath explained his absence anywhere? If so Imissed it... I was a bit suspicious of his days grace but of course none listened to me and then I was lilled...coincidence? Or the reason I was killed? Hmm

Boromir88

06-30-2009, 10:44 AM

I'm usually not into off the wall conspiracy theories, but Nerwen still being alive at this is scary. I will actually agree with Nogrod on his point that the dynamics of the game are interesting, but whoever the last wolf is (assuming it's not Nerwen), would have to be pretty confident to take away one of his/her choices to lynch...probably knowing that Nerwen will not be lynched...that is again assuming Greenie is not a co-conspirator who luckily picked a wolf to lead us all into thinking we can have a trusted innocent.

Now what I will say that these dynamics are different, I think I was killed a couple nights ago so there could be one less person who would unquestionably vote for Mac.

So, Nerwen, like I said...I don't believe in crazy conspiracy theories, if you are the last wolf you and Greenie without question will deserve the win for your super play. If you are innocent, consider why you are still alive. Whoever the last wolf may feel you were more likely to vote with him/her than Shasta would have...hence why Shasta was killed and not you. ;)

Another hint, it might be good to do what I like to on Day 1 if it's possible. :D

Mithalwen

06-30-2009, 11:01 AM

Stir up trouble and get yourself lynched as an ordo? Not helpful Boromir!!! :Merisu:

Boromir88

06-30-2009, 11:19 AM

Stir up trouble and get yourself lynched as an ordo? Not helpful Boromir!!! :Merisu:

Hehe, no no the other thing...I meant make use of the retractable :D

Mithalwen

06-30-2009, 11:42 AM

Oh THAT other thing...... :p

Nogrod

06-30-2009, 12:33 PM

Nice try Nog. ;)Now this is an interesting reaction to someone making plain pure sense and weighing the different possible scenarios... An innocent - even if one that would end up suspected by that kind of analysis - wouldn't react that way, I'd suppose. "Nice try"? :confused:

Then how do you explain Gwath not being eaten by modkilling.. for not voting three days(?) in a row?I don't know. I hope he had good enough reasons so that Brinn let him stay with the game because of them. For here I would go even farther than Nerwen who said she'd hope Brinn didn't let Gwath continue because he's a mutineer; I'd say it would be a bit lousy victory indeed were it because special rules were applied because of one's role.

And anyway I don't see why the mutineers would have attacked Rikae in those circumstances (Gwath being one of them, that is)... And here I disagree with Nerwen. maybe there were still four wolves then, and they thought it worth the risk.First of all: why? Why take the risk? They could keep her around for the last Day if they wished - or wait for a better opportunity. Secondly: if there were four mutineers (or even three) after Day4 it would mean that Brinn would have no reason whatsoever to let a mutineer-Gwath live on special grounds. The only reason I could see Brinn take special steps with Gwath is that the mutineers were so badly beaten already at that point that the game would have ended really prematurely - not that I think it's fair politics, but it would be somewhat understandable. But were they low on numbers on Day4, they would not have risked killing Rikae in the first place...

So that explanation doesn't quite add up with other considerations I'm afraid.

Boromir88

06-30-2009, 12:52 PM

For here I would go even farther than Nerwen who said she'd hope Brinn didn't let Gwath continue because he's a mutineer; I'd say it would be a bit lousy victory indeed were it because special rules were applied because of one's role.~Nogrod
If Gwath's a mutineer, whoever said he was given special considerations though?

El Capitain has already pointed out she doesn't like to have to mod-fire someone, but the rule was in place for a reason. Mira and Wilwa both had to leave for most likely not being able to participate not just for 1 or 2 days, but for the rest of the time. Maybe one of them's a wolf, maybe not...but to Brinn it didn't seem like their role mattered. They would have been mod-fired eventually had they not shown up.

Had Gwath not shown up, whether he's a mutineer or not, I think Brinn would have done the same. But Gwath did come back, and who knows whether he told Brinn why he didn't vote for 3 days, or not? It seems the mod-fire is there to make sure of course that there is no 'sour' victory, but that doesn't mean based on other circumstances the mod-fire rule can not be bent.

Basically I'm saying Gwath not being mod-fired should not 'prove' whether he is am mutineer or not, because from the sound of it Mira was going to get the same treatment from the Captain. She was going to get the chance to 'come back,' because of an internet situation, and Gwath was probably getting the same courtesy.

Doesn't mean he's a mutineer, doesn't mean that he isn't, and doesn't mean Brinn didn't want to mod-fire one of the mutineers. It looked to me (at least with both Mira and Gwath) she wouldn't want to, but if necessary would have mod-fired them.

Makes no difference now, because Gwath is back, and I agree with Mith...in this circumstance, an explanation for why the prolonged absense is due.