WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[autume98]

Wait, wait. So you were fine with Mac because he wanted to go hunt for wolves, and you instantly give up on wolf-hunting to pick between innocents?


Here's (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635402&postcount=466) the post where I explain in more detail why I choose BG.

Edit: x-ed with Eonwe, tp, and Eonwe again

[Eönwë]

Yeah, whatever, I'll try Nienna if you want, Mac, just so long as you understand that, should Eonwe end up being saved today, we're going to go through all of this again tomorrow.
But it'll be fun to have me around another Day!

And also not killing me toDay will give the Seer a chance to test themselves by dreaming someone that they know will get killed.

[Macalaure]

In case you didn't notice, that post where I said to look at Nog if Steve were lynched did make that point yesterDay. I would have posted more, but you see, I really didn't have time. I mentioned that I wouldn't really be around. Don't you read what others post? :p

I didn't overlook it, of course. You overlooked that I commented on it. ;)

Anyway, you said you would look for Nogrod depending on Eonwe's innocence. Eonwe did not get lynched, and your reasons for Nogrod toDay are independent of Eonwe's role, but are founded on Nogrod not voting for him. The case you presented toDay was readily available yesterDay.

You only picked this one item out of my reasons to suspect you. I usually do that when I'm a wolf: picking the few things I can defend myself against to discredit a whole analysis.

[Eönwë]

Here's something to talk about, which I raised earlier: Blind Guardian did, I think, drop a hint about her role. I never picked it up until after she died, but it's possible Hephaestus was looking a bit harder.

It may be worth seeing if anyone seemed to be particularly protective of her. (Or to be hinting back, perhaps– though look where searching for hints has got us...)

Well, when I said that Mac could be Hephaestus, did I mention that he said this?
Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that. :rolleyes:
And then voted you.

[Nerwen]

The last bit I saw was people thinking about lynching me. All I can say is:

Do it. Really, go ahead. I'm not upset, I'm not tired of the game in any way, and this is not said in anger. I wouldn't mind being lynched.

??? Is this a conundrum?

[the phantom]

And also not killing me toDay will give the Seer a chance to test themselves by dreaming someone that they know will get killed.
Ha ha! So in other words, the Seer should dream of you tonight and then tomorrow we should go ahead and lynch you and then the Seer will know if they are legit? What a brave sacrifice, sir!

Okay, okay, obviously it would be good for the Seer to know this, but you've got to figure one of the Seer dreams is going to die at some point anyway without purposefully flushing a dream like that. So no, bad plan I think.

[the phantom]

Come on now, Nerwen. Surely we don't have to discuss that.

Wow, Eonwe, you're really scrapping. Perhaps it would be fun to do this again!

[Loslote]

Okay:

I wasn't just thinking about my vote. I was thinking about the way others were probably going to vote too. By the time I put my vote in it was down to BG and Eonwe. BG had 5 and Eonwe had 4. I think there were four votes left. Don't quote me on that though. ;) So I'm thinking that there are still some votes that are going to vote for BG and some for Eonwe. So my vote is now who do I want around more: BG or Eonwe. I decided that I wanted Eonwe to stick around for one more day instead of BG. I wasn't voting for 1 in 20. I was voting for one or the other.

No, there was a chance to get someone else lynched. You didn't even try to even ask around to see if anyone else wanted to lynch, say, Mac. You remember, you top suspect? Who at least one other person who'd yet to vote wanted lynched? It seems like a pretty poor effort to not even attempt to get him lyched. But it's pretty good wolf-on-wolf.

As for voting for someone who was innocent, I thought both of them were innocent. Yet one of them was going to be lynched. There wasn't anything I could do to stop one of them from being lynched. So I chose between the one that I wanted to have stick around.

And I still didn't like people going after BG. I'll stand by that. However by the time I voted there was nothing I could do to stop it. Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good. I can see why you think my vote looks bad. I'm not sure what else I can tell you since everything I've said is the truth. I'll do my best to try and clarify things, however sometimes it seems my logic doesn't match up with everyone else's logic. :p

How would you know? You didn't try.

[the phantom]

The Tally:

Greenie ==> Mac
Shasta ==> Nog
Kath ===> Nog (2)
Lalaith ==> Eonwe
Nog ====> Eonwe (2)
Wilwa ==> Eonwe (3)
Nienna ==> Eonwe (4)
Inzil ====> Eonwe (5)
Rikae ===> Rikae

Yet to vote:
Sally, Mac, Phantom, Nerwen, Mira, Folwren, Lottie, Tum, Eonwe

Who is around:
Mac, Phantom, Nerwen, Lottie, Tum, Eonwe

[Macalaure]

Options seem to be Eonwe, Loslote, Autume, Nienna. Three of them are around and ready to save themselves, making Nienna a possibly easy victim.

[the phantom]

I'm not usually the sort to bend to the will of others, but Mac, just this once I'm willing to follow Rikae's lead and give her suspect a try. :p

Okay, but seriously, are we going to take a submarine shot or not? Because the only way it'll amount to anything is to pile on.

(x-post)

[autume98]

Okay:

No, there was a chance to get someone else lynched. You didn't even try to even ask around to see if anyone else wanted to lynch, say, Mac. You remember, you top suspect? Who at least one other person who'd yet to vote wanted lynched? It seems like a pretty poor effort to not even attempt to get him lyched. But it's pretty good wolf-on-wolf.

How would you know? You didn't try.
By that time I was getting tired and wanted to go to bed and get some sleep. Yes I'm up later than I was yesterDay. However some nights I'm more tired than others. So I didn't stick around to see if someone else could get lynched.

edit: x-ed with tp, Mac, and tp

[Nerwen]

Options seem to be Eonwe, Loslote, Autume, Nienna. Three of them are around and ready to save themselves, making Nienna a possibly easy victim.
Are you saying that's good or bad?

EDIT:X'd since Mac.

[Eönwë]

Think I'll just do a quick summary of what was going to be my Nog post:

First, I think he pretty much ironically sums himself up here:
it looks like those things wolves love to jump on: when they have no real suspicions themselves - because all they should suspect are innocents - they like to cling on scenarios some others suggest or that stand out in any possible way. Looking at the number of comments where Boro's wordings were deemed suspicious or noteworthy of a raised eyebrow I'd bet there are wolves involved.

In that post, he already begins to suspect me, though he just implies it without saying anything obvious- he doesn't actually say any particular person is suspicious- only those looking for meaning in Boro's use of Zeus. Apparently I'm "at it again" when I change my mind from believing the point I believe I was the first suggest, that Zeus just meant the good team to believing that he was hinting something.

So it seems he already had me as a target from then, so obviously even mentioning the word "Dionysus" makes me suspicious to him. And that's after criticising everyone for trying to find meaning in Boro writing "Zeus" twice. Total hypocrisy (though he does explain away any reason for Boro to say Zeus twice, he doesn't even consider an alternative for the Dionysus thing, that is, me being Dionysus because I just mentioned his name).

And so he's just gone after me after that no matter what.

There's also the Nerwen thing, and if I survive until toMorrow I'll get to that too.

edit: x-ed since my last post.

[the phantom]

Okay, of those four Mac-

Tum looks honest. All in all Lottie's entrance hasn't looked bad to me. So that leaves Eonwe and Nienna, which are probably the only viable candidates anyway given that the other two are around to vote the other direction.

[Nerwen]

If you guys are gunning for Nienna, 'fraid I can't oblige. I haven't looked at her myself, and it's too much of a shot in the dark.

As I said, I'd be willing to vote tum or maybe Nog, but I don't think it's going to happen now. We've dithered too long.

I think we'd just better hope Steve is evil.

[Glirdan]

Half an hour left for voting.

Voting tally is still the same as last time.

[Eönwë]

Options seem to be Eonwe, Loslote, Autume, Nienna.

How about Nog? And he's already got two votes...

edit: Forgot that DL was in half an hour *is relieved that he didn't miss vote*

[the phantom]

Half an hour left for voting.
Ha ha! I completely forgot this. I was rushing to decide for nothing.

[Macalaure]

Are you saying that's good or bad?More to the bad side, but mostly just the facts.

Would you consider not voting Eonwe if we should decide to go for Nienna?

[Nerwen]

Half an hour left for voting.

Voting tally is still the same as last time.

Oh, I didn't know we got extra time toDay.

[autume98]

How about Nog? And he's already got two votes...

I'd be willing to go for Nog.

[Macalaure]

I just got a big shock looking at the clock. I thought the deadline was still 2am, but the lack of incoming votes made me think it was earlier. :eek:

[autume98]

And since I've got the time and you're here Nerwen. I know you have some concerns regarding me. So ask away and I'll answer your questions.

[Loslote]

I didn't overlook it, of course. You overlooked that I commented on it. ;)

The fact that you commented on it was meant to be part of the point - you're picking and choosing. You mention it for a matter of wording, then say that I didn't use the argument Day 1.

Anyway, you said you would look for Nogrod depending on Eonwe's innocence. Eonwe did not get lynched, and your reasons for Nogrod toDay are independent of Eonwe's role, but are founded on Nogrod not voting for him. The case you presented toDay was readily available yesterDay.

No, I said that if Steve was proven innocent, we really needed to look at Nog. The fact that he wasn't lynched and proven innocent doesn't negate this, it simply makes it less obvious.

You only picked this one item out of my reasons to suspect you. I usually do that when I'm a wolf: picking the few things I can defend myself against to discredit a whole analysis.

Alright:

Loslote

I suspected her, but without really knowing why, so here's the analysis. She also seems to have been forgotten by everyone, so I hope this might change it a little.

She's the first to make actual points, which one could interpret as a wolf trying to look helpful and not banter too much. However, her following posts are rather "light" in points. A lot about roles etc. and a lot about people's possible hints.

Yeah, that's me. I'm rather silly. I'm rather okay with this.

Her first actual suspicion is only on page 4 - erroneously thinking Nerwen's hint might point to her being Persephone. She believes the theory that Eonwe is the cursed, but doesn't want to lynch him (sensible opinion, I think).

Wait, by "only" do you mean I should have waited longer? Like, for instance, Nog, The Phantom, and you did? ;)

Makes a list which has everybody innocent except for slight suspicions towards me and Autume. (Not stepping on too many people's toes. However, it's just a mid-Day1 list.) Disagrees with me about Zeus's almightiness. (Being the most mighty and being almighty is not the same.) She agrees with me that we shouldn't lynch BG, and suggests me instead (and Autume). She keeps on stating to want to lynch me and her multiple times, and that I find very suspicious. In her list, Tum and me stood out as most suspicious, but it looked more like we were 2/10 in a sea of 1/10. Looking at #231, #234, #260, it really seems to me like she used the list to be able to justify singling out two and then being able to keep those around as prime suspects without having to answer any more questions about it.

I was partly trying to remind Tum that there were other options, something she adamently denies existed.

Could you explain the bold? I'm afraid I don't follow your argument or your example.

She votes Eonwe since Tum and I are not going to be lynched, Eonwe is probably the cursed, and everybody else is still innocent. She notes that BG-voters need to be looked at. Sensible, but also convenient for a wolf who voted someone else. She covers the case of Eonwe being lynched by saying if he's innocent, we need to look at Nogrod (the unpicked cursed villager is an ordo in the tally. If the theory is right, we definitely would have lynched an innocent).

I was under the impression that he would be labled "Dionysis." The BeiGei voters, especially later on, were suspicious. Convenient? More like I thought that particular bandwagon was very ill-advised and wanted no part in it.

ToDay she starts with suppressed anger and a new list, which looks suspiciously like the old one, except that Nogrod is suspicious now, too. She backs off me a little bit. She suspects Nogrod because he didn't vote for Eonwe. Not exactly a great argument, but alright, except that she could have made the same point yesterDay, after his vote, already. But yesterDay she was content to carry only Tum and me around.

Supressed anger, yes. Could have made the same point, yes. As it happens, I did.

There are several things that could be both evil or good, but the way she handled her suspicions of Autume and me, talks about the BG-waggon and Eonwe's possible innocence (each on its own fine, but in combination it looks bad), and the reason for suspecting Nogrod look rather bad. Prime suspect now, since I lack other strong suspects at the moment.

Why is the combination particularly bad?

If I'm alive toMorrow, I'll have analysis, don't worry. I was pressed for time toDay, as I had stated explicitly more than once.

[Rikae]

Well, I'd say that was a nice scene I just wrote, and...
people, people, people. Can't say I was wild over the original candidates, but this last minute scrambling isn't likely to do much good either... :( I mean, Nienna? Why her? You'd do as well to lynch me, and I already have a vote.

[Nerwen]

I just got a big shock looking at the clock. I thought the deadline was still 2am, but the lack of incoming votes made me think it was earlier. :eek:

Yeah, me too.

Okay, what's the case against Nienna? I'm not going to vote her if it's just random.

After all, we probably will have to go through this again toMorrow if Steve lives.

EDIT:X'd since Mac.

[Loslote]

Okay, but seriously, are we going to take a submarine shot or not? Because the only way it'll amount to anything is to pile on.

If it's Nienna you're piling on, count me out.

By that time I was getting tired and wanted to go to bed and get some sleep. Yes I'm up later than I was yesterDay. However some nights I'm more tired than others. So I didn't stick around to see if someone else could get lynched.

Then why didn't you say that before? Your previous posts made it sound like you were desparing of any possible other option, rather than going to bed. There's a big difference. One implies not caring all that much, the other implies that you did care, but were prevented from that by RL. The fact that you waited this long to mention it kind of indicates that you're grasping at straws.

How about Nog? And he's already got two votes...

edit: Forgot that DL was in half an hour *is relieved that he didn't miss vote*

You know that I'd be more than fine with this.

[Rikae]

For that matter, what's the case against Steve... (and yes, I've heard the arguments, and still I ask...)

This day has been such a waste of time, for the most part. I'll be very surprised if any good comes of it.

You know, Mac seems to be directing all this "hey! Let's vote a random person instead of Steve!" business, which makes me think we may have been wise to lynch him after all...

[Glirdan]

Sheez.....Did ANYONE read my message on the Admin thread last night? :p:rolleyes:

Due to the fact that I had stopped the Night half an hour later, I changed toDay to 2:30am to make up for it.

HOWEVER, the Night will LOOSE half an hour as I will be starting the Day at the regular time of 2am (unless otherwise specified.

Sincerely,
Glirdanmod (ooo...Wilwa was right, I like that name too :D )

[Rikae]

Another person than Steve wouldn't have been a problem in the first place, but to say the least, all this seems pretty unfocused.

[autume98]

Then why didn't you say that before? Your previous posts made it sound like you were desparing of any possible other option, rather than going to bed. There's a big difference. One implies not caring all that much, the other implies that you did care, but were prevented from that by RL. The fact that you waited this long to mention it kind of indicates that you're grasping at straws.


I mentioned it in my post when I voted for her.


So after making that post I think it's time for me to vote and go to bed.

++BG


Edit: x-ed with Rikae, Mod, and Rikae

[Macalaure]

Could you explain the bold? I'm afraid I don't follow your argument or your example.

The arguments you gave in your list against Tum and me were not exactly strong. That's fine for a mid-Day1 list, but to keep those two names around til deadline without considering voting anybody else, that's not good. And you didn't consider voting anybody else: you did not want to vote for Eonwe, you just didn't mind it. And while you talked about Nogrod, you didn't ponder voting for him, but maintained Tum and me based on little reasoning.

Why is the combination particularly bad?

Because it's a way to supply yourself with suspects for Day2 in a very convenient manner. If A dies we have to look at the people voting her, if B dies, the person creating the case against him should be looked at.

[Loslote]

I mentioned it in my post when I voted for her.

Ah, I see. Okay then, scratch my last point. You were not grasping for straws with that last defense.

[Macalaure]

Voting somebody random instead of Eonwe? Not really. I asked around what people's options were, so that we would not consider lynching someone random, but one that is suspected.

Lottie and Nienna were the ones I was planning to analyse toDay, but time restricted me to Lottie. I can't offer any good points against Nienna, but I do remember having a bad feeling reading any of her posts.

[Macalaure]

I guess it won't work, though. It doesn't look like we'll be able to decide on one person...

[Rikae]

Suspicion doesn't necessarily equal good reasoning, but you know that.

[Rikae]

At any rate, at least we'll be able to learn something from Steve's role, I'd guess.

[Loslote]

The arguments you gave in your list against Tum and me were not exactly strong. That's fine for a mid-Day1 list, but to keep those two names around til deadline without considering voting anybody else, that's not good. And you didn't consider voting anybody else: you did not want to vote for Eonwe, you just didn't mind it. And while you talked about Nogrod, you didn't ponder voting for him, but maintained Tum and me based on little reasoning.

That doesn't explain the bold, but okay. I did look at other people, but none jumped out at me as suspicious. Nog was not a vote option on Day 1.

Because it's a way to supply yourself with suspects for Day2 in a very convenient manner. If A dies we have to look at the people voting her, if B dies, the person creating the case against him should be looked at.

I see your point. And I admit that it's a good one. But they were both suspicious. What would you prefer, I wrote them all off as being wolvish to pursue and wallowed about with no suspicions?

[autume98]

I'm thankful for the more time we had toDay, and then this idea hits me. Why not lynch someone else, and have the Hunter go after Eonwe. If he dies than we know he's a wolf. The big flaw we'd have to pull this all of in nine minutes, and the Hunter would have to see this post. So basically a bad plan this late toDay.:rolleyes:

Edit: x-ed w/several

[Macalaure]

Nog was not a vote option on Day 1.

Neither was Autume.

[the phantom]

The Tally:

Greenie ==> Mac
Shasta ==> Nog
Kath ===> Nog (2)
Lalaith ==> Eonwe
Nog ====> Eonwe (2)
Wilwa ==> Eonwe (3)
Nienna ==> Eonwe (4)
Inzil ====> Eonwe (5)
Rikae ===> Rikae

Yet to vote:
Sally, Mac, Phantom, Nerwen, Mira, Folwren, Lottie, Tum, Eonwe

Who is around:
Mac, Phantom, Nerwen, Lottie, Tum, Eonwe

[Loslote]

I'm thankful for the more time we had toDay, and then this idea hits me. Why not lynch someone else, and have the Hunter go after Eonwe. If he dies than we know he's a wolf. The big flaw we'd have to pull this all of in nine minutes, and the Hunter would have to see this post. So basically a bad plan this late toDay.:rolleyes:

Edit: x-ed w/several

The Hunter is not a "smart" Hunter. Whoever xe picks dies no matter what role they have. So all we really do is waste our Hunter and kill Steve anyway.

Also, I think we had enough people willing to vote Nog to swing a Nog-lynch.

++Nog

Make of it what you will, and follow it up if you want.

[Nerwen]

And since I've got the time and you're here Nerwen. I know you have some concerns regarding me. So ask away and I'll answer your questions.
No new ground– just that you voted someone you believed innocent, when there was someone else you actually suspected. Now, toDay you explain this by saying it was clearly going to be either BG or Steve, and Steve was the one you wanted to save.

All right.

But you also seem more concerned about how you look than the rights or wrongs of the case:
Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good.
Are you saying you're hoping Eonwe is lynched and turns out innocent? Because that's what it looks like you're saying.

And then, you seem to be latching on to everyone's suspicions.

EDIT:X'd with everybody. And now I'm running out of time again (slow internet!)

[autume98]

Thanks for clearing that up Lottie. So another reason that's a bad idea.

I'm going to vote for:

++Nog

Edit: x-ed with Nerwen

[Eönwë]

Unless anything major happens in the next 3 minutes, I'm voting for Nogrod.

[Macalaure]

Not going to go the Nogrod-way toDay.

[autume98]

No new ground– just that you voted someone you believed innocent, when there was someone else you actually suspected. Now, toDay you explain this by saying it was clearly going to be either BG or Steve, and Steve was the one you wanted to save.

All right.

But you also seem more concerned about how you look than the rights or wrongs of the case:

Are you saying you're hoping Eonwe is lynched and turns out innocent? Because that's what it looks like you're saying.

And then, you seem to be latching on to everyone's suspicions.

I'll have to address this toMorrow if I'm around.

[Glirdan]

1 Minute left to vote

[the phantom]

You know what? Let's go with it. Perhaps it will tell us something.

++ Eonwe

If he's guilty then Nog will look pretty good, and Tum will not look good at all.

[Macalaure]

++Eonwe

[Eönwë]

Ok, there's no point in waiting any longer. This was going to be my vote since the beginning of the Day:

++Nogrod

[Nerwen]

At any rate, at least we'll be able to learn something from Steve's role, I'd guess.

Yes, and there's also the fact that– as someone said– we'll just have to do this all again toMorrow if he lives.

Well, then–

++Steve

EDIT:X'd with a host, including a lot of vote-posts.

[Eönwë]

NOOOOOOO!!! *Dies*

Now go and lynch Nogrod.

[the phantom]

Possibly an interesting war will develop tomorrow, eh? With, of course, Rikae, Nog, and I at the center, cutting at each other. Sounds like fun!!

[Glirdan]

Okay, Everyone stop posting.

[Glirdan]

The Gods gathered in the main chamber once more (Hermes's body had been removed earlier in the Day) to make a choice on who they were ready to single out of the group. Everyone was gun ho for taking out someone.

That is until Hades piped up. "What about that mortal? Where the heck did he go?" Everyone seemed to have forgotten about the mortal that somehow ended up on Olympus with Hercules. A quick scan of the room pointed him out, cowering in a corner, completely soiled, a look of petrification set on his face.

"What are you doing here mortal?" Zeus's voice rumbled out. "Or are you really a mortal? Perhaps you are another God sent to set the Twilight upon us!"

"No, no! I swear, I am just a measly little human! I have no idea how I got here!" The Gods began advancing on him, he scrambled away from them in fright. "Please, you have to believe me! I don't know anything about this Twilight you keep talking of." He kept backing up as the Gods advanced menacingly.

"How do we know you're actually telling the truth!?" Hera demanded scathingly.

"No, please!! I swear I don't know - AAAAAAHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh......." His voice echoed all around the Mountain as the Mortal fell to his untimely death.

Dead
Night 1 - Glirdan aka. Thanatos (Mod) - Scythe through the stomach
Day 1 - BeiGei aka. Aphrodite (Lover) - Suicide of a broken heart
Night 2 - Boro aka. Hermes (Seer) - Wings through the eyes
Day 2 - Eonwe aka. Only True Ordo - Plummeted to an untimely, mortal death

Alive
Wilwa
Kath
Mira
Zil
Lottie
Nienna
Nerwen
Folwren
Tum
Lalaith
Greenie
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog
Phantom
Sally


IT IS NOW NIGHT 3

You all know what to do.

I would type it all out, but I'm exhausted and need to get to bed.

[Glirdan]

The death of the mortal did not ease the Gods that Night, for they unwittingly murdered a purely innocent mortal (not that some of them cared) who worshiped and revered them.

Once again, Apollo was back in his regular trance and Pan was out on patrol. Zeus and Hera were once again locked in their bed chambers, awaiting the coming of dawn. Even Hestia was not herself, seeing things that she never dreamed she could.

Yet they all dreaded the coming of the Day, where they knew they wouldn't have any peace....

STILL NIGHT 2
Artemis and Eros need to send me a name
Also waiting for the Wolves to send me their pick.

[Glirdan]

The Gods awoke the following morning, expecting the worst of the worst, and with good reason. After all, they congregated in the Dawn only to find that two of their own were slaughtered in the Night.

However, this dawning was different...much different. For one, when they congregated, a slight glimmer of sunshine peaked through the purple clouds to illuminate the Grand Hall.

Another great surprise was when Eros walked in the room with a fantastic announcement.

"I was able to keep one of our own safe last Night!" He went on to tell the tale of what happened. Apparently, four figures were approaching the room of one of the Gods (who's he could not guess) as he was patrolling the halls. He rushed in to stop them and engaged them in a very short battle. Whoever it was, gave up quite easily and scampered away in the Night.

The Gods shouted in delight at Eros's victory. But they weren't through the woods yet. The Gods separated, earnest to discuss the previous Day's events and the events of the Night.

RANGER SAVE NO ONE DIED!!

Dead
Night 1 - Glirdan aka. Thanatos (Mod) - Scythe through the stomach
Day 1 - BeiGei aka. Aphrodite (Lover) - Suicide of a broken heart
Night 2 - Boro aka. Hermes (Seer) - Wings through the eyes
Day 2 - Eonwe aka. Only True Ordo - Plummeted to an untimely, mortal death

Alive
Wilwa
Kath
Mira
Zil
Lottie
Nienna
Nerwen
Folwren
Tum
Lalaith
Greenie
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog
Phantom
Sally

IT IS NOW DAY 4

Shirrifs may continue posting.
Everyone start posting.

[the phantom]

Heh heh... I don't mean to get carried away after the events of the night, but- we've totally got this, guys.

Though we've found no WWs, we lynched the one and only Ordo, which is as good as you could hope for when you lose a good-guy. Our other lynch was a Lover, keeping the Wolves from gaining an ally.

And if I read the narration correctly, Hestia the Mytho is now a Seer. And then this morning our Mod actually told us which Ranger it was that had the successful protection, meaning that we essentially have a Seer dream in our pocket (Eros knows that person is innocent). And Athena knows one of the Gifteds, so that's sort of another Seer dream in pocket. If Hades has found Persephone and we kill him, she comes back with yet another dream for us, plus we have Demeter who knows who Persephone is (and thus can perhaps find Hades more easily). And if we kill Hera, Zeus comes over to us with an extra power. And we still have two Rangers, and a Hunter, and two Shirrifs, and a Unicorn.

So people- do not mess this up. In other words, don't leave without voting thinking you will probably be back. A random vote is better than getting yourself modfired.

[Nerwen]

And if I read the narration correctly, Hestia the Mytho is now a Seer.
Of course, if our remaining Seer (Apollo) happens to be false, so is Hestia, unless I've got things badly wrong. However, looks like Boro was the false one, anyway.

And then this morning our Mod actually told us which Ranger it was that had the successful protection, meaning that we essentially have a Seer dream in our pocket (Eros knows that person is innocent).

Regarding which:
Apparently, four figures were approaching the room of one of the Gods (who's he could not guess) as he was patrolling the halls.
Eros must know who he protected, so what (the Hades!:p) does this mean?

[A Little Green]

Eros must know who he protected, so what (the Hades!) does this mean?I believe it's just a narrational thing - Glirdanmod didn't want to reveal the protected one's identity in the narration, so he wrote it like that. (Because any logic would say that Eros knows who he protected!)

Anyway, I have some comments on yesterDay, and will analyse one of the baffling guys who escape the general attention ie. Inzil, Nienna, Shasta, Sally or Lalaith (any preferences?) I'll do all that in some hours, as I have some important (and confusing!) paperwork to do. Just popped in to check what happened during the Night.

[Nogrod]

Eros must know who he protected, so what (the Hades!) does this mean?
Maybe that's just poetic licence? Otherwise it's hard to see what it means.

Heh, the phantom, the official optimist! :p

Though to remind us of the truth from the opposite perspective: we have all four wolves left + one cursed, and we haven't been nowhere near lynching even one. Yeah, we've only got two band-wagons on innocents. You others cannot know this, to be sure, and I'm not supposing you will take my word for it - but as I'm going to be posting quite scantily the next few Days (if alive anyway), I'd like to remind you about it. It has some relevance when you try to look at how the wolves might have acted. But I'll come to that a bit later.

[Loslote]

Okay, so I decided to analyze Tum. I'm trying something where, if I can find someone else saying the same thing a few posts ago, I post that, too.

Note: After being informed that I had 27 images in my post, I just disabled smilies. Too much bother to try to go through and get rid of them. >.<

If you find a purpose for day one other than what you mentioned you will have to share.

So far I got a whole lot of nothing.

She said this after quoting Foley:

Good glory, is there any purpose to this first day at all, besides bantering, teasing, and otherwise killing time?

And basically agreeing with her.

That's true. Didn't think about that. At the time though it is quite confusing. :p

Edit: x-ed with Sally

She then quotes Nerwen:

Seriously, Fowlren, Day Ones are generally useful for analysis later on, if nothing else.

Also, with so many weird roles, things could get interesting even this early on.

And agrees with her.

I second this! There has been some good discussion, but it also seem like there has been some dragged on discussion regarding the lovers.

I don't think the Seers should reveal. Obviously they should give some hints, confuse some wolves, and hopefully help out the town while they are at it.

I think I skipped over the Zeus comments so I'll have to go back and see if there is anything there.

She then quotes Nog:

Okay let's get into the bussiness of trying to tie the Day up for now - from my part that is.

And agrees with him. She also mentions an opinion on a widely-talked about topic and says she didn't catch the Boro-Zeus controversy.

I think it'd be good for Eonwe to comment on this. I personally am leaning towards him being innocent at this point. However am going to be keeping my eye on him.

She then quotes Zil:

But if he's turned he can't be good. And if that was indeed a hint, he had to have known the wolves could pick up on it as easily as innocents.

And says she needs to keep an eye on him, but wants him to comment.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who got confused! :cool: And a cheat sheet chart sounds like a really good idea. I think I might have to make myself one too. :smokin:

She then quotes Mira (in the same post):

Okay so three pages later, I'm pretty thoroughly confused (but what else is new) soo as per usual I'm just going to start talking.

I really don't see Boro's Zeus comment and Nerwen's Hades one as slips or hints of any kind. It's Day 1 of a Greek god themed game. There is nothing suspicious about working in banter, especially in the first few posts (which I think those were).

And now I shall go make myself a stupidly detailed cheatsheet chart of all the roles because that's what's been confusing me the most. I shall return!

And agrees with her about being confused.

I was going to post the same thing. I'm so glad I made the list cause it made all this Zeus talk even more interesting. Is it just something to stir up the pot and add confusion?

Edit: xed with Lottie

She then quotes Mira:

I might be missing something here, but don't Zeus and Hera know who each other are? If that's the case then there's no reason for Borolover to be hinting to his counterpart.

And says she was going to post the same thing.

Looks like so far I don't have much as far as suspicions. The people that have hit my radar so far toDay are:

Boro - There was all the Zeus talk around him. However he generally confuses me so it probably means nothing.

Lottie - That might just because I'm on her radar so it probably is just a knee-jerk reaction to that. However she's also is on Nog's radar and I tend to trust Nog.

Mac - I'm not sure about him. I really can't put my finger on it, but it also might be that once again I'm on his radar so it probably means nothing.

Eonwe - I'd like to know more about this statement:


Everyone else seems to be ok or hasn't said a lot so really don't have much to go on.

On another note I talked to Sally and she said she's having internet that seems to be working sporadically.

Edit: xed up to post 172

Her suspicions are two of the people most people talked about and the two people who talked about her.

So this post got me thinking. Could this just be a hint that he's a lover? Maybe, maybe not. Which got me thinking more how all this talk about lovers would be a perfect opportunity for someone to slip in a hint to their lover.



So now I'm not the only one who has suspicions of Mac. I really am beginning to wonder if some hints are going on. Granted it would seem to be pretty obvious that he's giving a hint to a fellow lover if that's what he were doing. Anyone have any thoughts?

Edit: x-ed with Rikae, wilwa, and Nog

She quotes Mac:

Hephaistos, not Ares. In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". Since we only have three, that's not a bad hint.

And suggests that he might have been hinting as a lover. Actually, I think she was the first to come up with this theory, which looks much better for her.

I was throwing that out as a possibility. I thought it might be a little too obvious on Mac's part which is why I asked for other's opinions. ;)

I didn't realize I had dismissed the idea the that Boro was hinting. I didn't really comment on it if that's what you mean. :confused: Since it's been brought up though I could see that yes it could be a hint coming from Boro. Yet I'm not convinced at all. I am pretty much on the fence with this one.

I have also been going through the posts to see if there are any hints that the lovers have thrown out. So far I haven't come across anything that stands out.

Edit: x-ed with wilwa, Nog, and Rikae

She quotes Rikae:

Tum, are you saying that Mac's suspicion of Boro being a lover is a hint that Mac is a lover?

Although there's something to the idea that people tend to talk about their own roles more than might be wise, I think that's a little bit of a reach, especially considering that you dismiss the idea that Boro's hinting - which, though I don't really buy it, is more plausible than that Mac is.

And backs away from her theory a little bit, but sticks with it - I must admit, this is a good sign.

At this time I don't think the others are lovers. Mac's last line just jumped out at me making me think that maybe he was trying to hint that he is a lover as seen below.



Edit: x-ed since #206
I guess I didn't see it as dismissing it. But I addressed it in an earlier post so I won't do so here.

At this time Mac is most suspicous in my book.

Quotes Rikae:

Too obvious? No, I don't think so. Quite the opposite. Unless you mean something more specific than just the fact that Mac talked about Boro's potential hint (which Wilwa, Nerwen, Phantom, Nogrod, etc. etc. talked about before Mac, for that matter - are they all lovers, too?)


Well, saying that calling it a lover hint amounts to making a lover hint oneself is essentially dismissing it, unless you imagine that a lover-Mac would try to hint by outing what would essentially be an ally for possible lynching.

And takes what I think was a joke and makes it serious. She also labels Mac as her top suspect.

I am definitely with you on this one. I also know that we definitely see each other as enemies right now. As much as I have my suspicions about you I'm not sure I'm willing to vote for you just yet. Maybe it's because I feel the same way about the BG votes. It'd be an easy lynch and I don't agree with that.

Edit: x-ed with BG, Rikae, and Nerwen

Quotes Mac:

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that. :rolleyes:

And agrees. She says that not only is he her top suspect, but that she doesn't want to vote for him.

It was this line:


Edit: Changed coding

Quotes Rikae about Mac:

Hm, so Tum, do you mean the "it's frustrating to be alone with it" bit or the "I am a lover" bit? Or something else?




Silly. I always defend you - even when we're not on the same side. You know that. :Merisu:

And explains herself - in a very confusing manner, I must sau...

I know there are rules about editing posts. So quick question, anyone here know if I can fix the quote since it shows: [ /quote] I can't believe I forgot to preview my post before I hit Submit Reply. :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance!

Mentions coding difficulties. No problems there.

As I was looking at my list I am wondering about wilwa and her post for BG.

I am also not sure about Boro. He sure did stir up the pot, but I'm not sure that he's a wolf.

Looking at my list of players no one is jumping out at me screaming wolf. I'm wondering if they are one of the quiet ones.

You mentioned Zil. Is there something that makes you suspect him or you just suspect him on principle?

Edit: x-ed with up to #231

Mentions that Wilwa's BeiGei vote made her wonder, and agrees about Zil.

I want to touch on a few of the items you mentioned. For the most part I agree with your innocent list. I say most part instead of all because I'm not in your innocent list. ;)

I know I've played with Nienna but can't seem to remember how she plays. However as you pointed out she's a BG voter. I think some of the people who have voted for BG have been throwing their votes away.

Not sure what you meant by this: Greenie (the nagging Persephone-suspicion persists since it fits so well)

I think you make a good point about Keeper. Maybe something to look at.

As you pointed out Inzil is a BG voter.

And I wanted to touch on Nerwen. To me her comment seemed innocent, and I didn't see her defending herself as being tense.

Edit: x-ed with up to post #237

Quotes Mac:

[QUOTE=Macalaure;635029]6 pages on Day1... and there's still two hours to go... I needs me a list.

Probably innocent
Rikae (argumentative plus defending me when I'm misunderstood, that's innocent-Rikae)

Fine with me
Kath (hasn't said much, but what she said I liked - defending me is the way to my heart ;) )
Folwren (couldn't say anything bad about her)
Lalaith (simply no alarms)

Fine with me at the moment, but still wary
Wilwa (talks about roles too much, but since she helped planning, that's ok for now. Don't like her vote, though... really bad)
Nogrod (went on about Eonwe too much and followed Greenie with her suspicions of me, but otherwise fine, especially his vote)
Phantom (nothing bad to report yet, but you never know with him)

No clear opinion, but no alarms
BG (really don't get those votes, she's being herself perfectly)
Eonwe (I don't buy the cursed theory. If he is the cursed, he's aligned with good at this point and should behave that way. I don't think he would bend the rules like that)
Shasta
Sally

Somewhat suspicious
Lottie (vague bad feeling again)
Nienna (had a bad feeling about all her posts so far. Also: BG-voter)
Greenie (the nagging Persephone-suspicion persists since it fits so well)
Keepandir (just the vote. Annoyance might be cover for convenience)

High on my list, but not an aim toDay
Boro (I still think he made a hint, but I'll let it rest for now - don't come complaining to me when you feel his or his lover's fangs in your neck)

Baddie, baddie, bad, bad
Inzil (vague bad feeling from the beginning on; don't like the way he went after me; BG-voter)
Nerwen (I would have given her the benefit of the doubt with the hint-thing, but her behaviour around it now is suspicious. She dismissed it very casually and went after me instead, and now that Nogrod addressed it, she seemed very tense)
Autume (passive, going along with the crowd / after easy victims -type feeling, which, to her defense, is not out of character for her)

And agrees with him about three fifths of the comments she quoted.

Now that just put a BIG smile on my face! :D In a strange way that really does make sense.



I hear you Nog! I keep thinking that I really do need to vote soon, but then this is just sooo interesting that I'm not ready to put my laptop away and call it a night. Not to mention I really need to look at who I want to vote for. Yet at this time I don't see any unity on the votes other than the ones for BG.

Quotes Mac and Nog:

Autume: this might irk you now - or a few others - but I'll vote Nerwen. I suspect her, and you don't mention her. Since I don't really trust you, that makes perfect sense to me. ;)

[*highlight]++Nerwen[/highlight]

Says this makes sense and made her smile.

I seem to be trapped in a vicious circle... going to have a cigarette, going to brush my teeth... while leaving the computer on and just looking after every thing done if there is anything that is interesting... and of course there is... Gah!

Agrees fervently about being tired.

Thought I'd share the vote count:

Foley -> Eonwe
Greenie -> Mac
Kath -> BG
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> BG (2)
Nienna -> Eonwe (2)
Sally -> BG (3)
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> BG (4)
Keeper -> BG (5)
Rikae -> phantom
Mac -> Nerwen (2)
BG -> Inzil

I did notice that Keeper didn't give a reason.

Shares the vote count and throws out a potentially bad note about Mira.

With that the vote for Inzil is up in the air. So my list may or may not include Inzil.

Edit: x-ed with Mod and Shasta

Quotes TP about her vote tally:

All right- I've skimmed everything now at least. Two things-

1) Does anyone have an updated tally?

2) Does BG's vote count (it doesn't have ++)?

edit: x-posted, so never mind the tally

And seconds his question about BeiGei's vote.

I think we should keep Eonwe around. If he turns then we can always lynch him the next day. Right?

Wants to keep Steve around. I didn't find a nearby relevant quote, but I do know that Nog and I (at least!) said this earlier.

It seems as though one of the people I see as innocent is going to get lynched toDay. Out of the three with the most votes I see all of them as innocent. It doesn't seem right to vote for any of them.

The one I feel least inclined to vote for is Eonwe. Not sure who to vote for between BG and Nerwen. However if it came to where I had to save Eonwe I think I'd have to vote for BG. Sorry BG. :(

Protects Steve. As Steve was more innocent than BeiGei, this looks better than not.

So after making that post I think it's time for me to vote and go to bed.

[*highlight]++BG[/highlight]

Edit: x-ed with Nog and BG

Votes BeiGei. While I don't have a (huge) problem with her voting to protect Steve (I do still think it's weird, but...), I do have a problem with her "suspicion" of Mac without any actual attempts to lynch him to back it up.

I haven't gone through all the thread yet, but I do want to post my reasoning for the reason I voted BG yesterday since I've noticed a few concerns.

The reason I didn't vote for Mac yesterday is simply because I wanted to keep Eonwe around for a little bit longer. At the time Eonwe was also being looked at being lynched. At the time specualation was that he may be Dionysis, and I wasn't ready to lynch him yesterDay. I felt like we should keep him around and in order to do that I had to vote for BG. If I would've had enough people on my side I would've voted for Mac.

Here she says that she protected him because she thought he was Dionysis. She gives her reason for not voting Mac because she wanted to protect Steve.

Just want to make sure everyone saw my post. I noticed a couple of people had missed it. Look here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635333&postcount=414) to see my post explaining my vote.

Reminds people about her post.

It looks like she did give a hint here:



Not sure if anyone picked up on the hint. I'll will have to go back and see.

Quotes Nerwen:

Well, I hope so.:rolleyes:

Here's something to talk about, which I raised earlier: Blind Guardian did, I think, drop a hint about her role. I never picked it up until after she died, but it's possible Hephaestus was looking a bit harder.

It may be worth seeing if anyone seemed to be particularly protective of her. (Or to be hinting back, perhaps– though look where searching for hints has got us...)

And brings up the same basic point.

So apparently I'm a little confused. I know shocker! :eek: I thought for some reason the Aphrodite had to do with wine. I looked it up and it has to do with Love and Beauty. So please ignore the above post. :rolleyes:

Edit: x-ed with tp and wilwa

So after going over BG's posts again, this time looking for something to do with love and beauty. I came up with nothing. I don't see one iota of a hint that she tried to give her partner Hephaestus.

So she did. I think I just made a fool of myself. :o I did not see anyone who responded to it so it doesn't help us find her partner.

All three of these are confusion with BeiGei's possible hints.

I've been sitting here and skimming through the posts seeing if something would catch my eye. I went through the BG votes and I didn't really see anything suspicious there. So I thought I'd take a look at the Eonwe voters. And of course the one that really struck me was the vote from Boro.

I am interested in finding out what Eonwe's role is. I also took another look at his posts from yesterday. He did bring up quite a bit of Greek mythology in his posts yesterday. Another question to ask: Would Eonwe be so blatant as to say "Wolf!" in his first post?

She claims that she saw nothing suspicious in the BeiGei voters, despite having wondered about Wilwa's vote earlier. She also swaps positions on Steve overNight.

First: What do you mean by suspecting submarines? I haven't heard this term before. :confused:



Well Mac wanted to actually go for a wolf. I was cool with that. We weren't getting anywhere by suspecting each other. So I left him alone. Besides I knew at this point there was no way I'd be able to lynch him.

Yes Eonwe only had 4 votes and BG had 5. And if I voted for Eonwe then they both would've had 5. So by voting for BG I was doing what I could to keep Eonwe yesterDay as I wanted BG gone more than I wanted Eonwe gone. Does that make sense?

Asks for clarification of game terminology and makes her very confusing argument. I still have trouble matching up "My main suspect wanted to wolf hunt, so I left him alone" and "I didn't vote for anyone I found suspicious because I wanted to protect an innocent."

Thanks for the explanation! :cool:



I wasn't just thinking about my vote. I was thinking about the way others were probably going to vote too. By the time I put my vote in it was down to BG and Eonwe. BG had 5 and Eonwe had 4. I think there were four votes left. Don't quote me on that though. ;) So I'm thinking that there are still some votes that are going to vote for BG and some for Eonwe. So my vote is now who do I want around more: BG or Eonwe. I decided that I wanted Eonwe to stick around for one more day instead of BG. I wasn't voting for 1 in 20. I was voting for one or the other.

As for voting for someone who was innocent, I thought both of them were innocent. Yet one of them was going to be lynched. There wasn't anything I could do to stop one of them from being lynched. So I chose between the one that I wanted to have stick around.

And I still didn't like people going after BG. I'll stand by that. However by the time I voted there was nothing I could do to stop it. Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good. I can see why you think my vote looks bad. I'm not sure what else I can tell you since everything I've said is the truth. I'll do my best to try and clarify things, however sometimes it seems my logic doesn't match up with everyone else's logic. :p

Edit: x-ed with Mac, Sally, and tp

I've responded to this post before, and I still find it strange.

It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to save him so badly. I never said I wanted to save him really bad. I just wanted him here toDay more than my other choice. :cool:

So now I have to ask...why did you vote for BG? What made you suspect her so early on?

Now says that she didn't want to save him particularly badly. She also asks Zil for his reasoning behind his vote.

I can see why you say that. The two I'd really like to hear about why they voted for BG are Wilwa and Mira. It doesn't look like I'll get an explanation from Wilwa tonight, and I'm not sure where Mira is.

No, it's not looking to good for Eonwe right now.

Is okay with Zil's vote now, but not so much with Wilwa's and Mira's - interesting, considering she'd said she found nothing suspicious with the BeiGei votes. She also quotes Zil:

I didn't like the way she kept dropping by and saying nothing. It looked to me as if she was just trying to seem as if she was participating without sticking her neck out. The only other one on my radar was Mac, and as I said yesterDay I didn't want to vote him on Day 1, since I couldn't tell if it was a real suspicion I had or just the general uneasy feeling he always seems to give me.

And it's not looking as though Eönwê's going to be here toMorrow.

And agrees with both paragraphs of his post.

Classic! Can I just say I really like your vote. :D

I can totally see why you did it though. No one has jumped out at me as a wolf.

Quote Rikae:

Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

[*highlight]++Rikae[/highlight]

Seriously, I really hope toMorrow we can focus a little attention into the dark corners of this village, instead of on the over-examined and probably innocent loudmouths - and I have a novel to finish, so tschüss.

And both praises her vote and agrees with her reasoning.

Now that just cracked me up! :D

Quotes Mac:

After those two votes, you probably deserve that, love. ;)

And is most amused by it.

Maybe I haven't played with Nog enough yet. It seems as thought a few people have made comments about him acting strange. So I could be wrong about him.

As for Lottie, I haven't heard enough from her outside of her gunning for Mac and me. I think I'd like to know more about her reasoning and let her explain herself before I go after her.

Anyone else is pretty much fair game. I don't feel strongly about anyone at this point.

Edit: x-ed with both of tp's posts

Has no strong opinion on Nog, and strangely enough, no strong opinion on Mac either - and I don't think I saw her ever say she stopped suspecting him as her top suspect.

Funny that you should mention Nienna. I had gone back through her posts earlier today and there wasn't much there. However that can be said of a few people at this time.

And I already covered thoughts about Lottie and Nog.

Edit: x-ed with Nerwen

Quotes TP:

Not anything strong. But there might be a couple I'd roll the dice on if you wanted to give them a try. One of the low-posters? Nienna maybe? I dunno. You said Lottie earlier- heck why not? And what do you think of Nog? Wait and see if he's right first, or push him to the brink?

(x-post Mac, who posted ANOTHER hint *makes note to guess Mac as Hades tonight*)

And pretty much agrees with him.

I'd be willing to give Nienna a try too, and for some reason I'm not too keen on going after me either. :p

Edit: x-ed with Lottie

Quotes Mac:

I'd rather give Nogrod the benefit of a good night's sleep. Nienna I'd be willing to try.

Nerwen mentioned Autume. I'm not so keen on that.

And agrees with him.

Here's (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635402&postcount=466) the post where I explain in more detail why I choose BG.

Edit: x-ed with Eonwe, tp, and Eonwe again

Responds to me with a link to her old post.

By that time I was getting tired and wanted to go to bed and get some sleep. Yes I'm up later than I was yesterDay. However some nights I'm more tired than others. So I didn't stick around to see if someone else could get lynched.

edit: x-ed with tp, Mac, and tp

Finally mentions that she was going to bed, her most reasonable defense.

I'd be willing to go for Nog.

Quotes Steve:

How about Nog? And he's already got two votes...

edit: Forgot that DL was in half an hour *is relieved that he didn't miss vote*

And agrees, despite having no strong feelings about him before.

And since I've got the time and you're here Nerwen. I know you have some concerns regarding me. So ask away and I'll answer your questions.

Asks for Nerwen to ask questions and she'll answer them.

I mentioned it in my post when I voted for her.



Edit: x-ed with Rikae, Mod, and Rikae

Says that she mentioned her tiredness when she voted - which she did, in fact, do.

I'm thankful for the more time we had toDay, and then this idea hits me. Why not lynch someone else, and have the Hunter go after Eonwe. If he dies than we know he's a wolf. The big flaw we'd have to pull this all of in nine minutes, and the Hunter would have to see this post. So basically a bad plan this late toDay.:rolleyes:

Edit: x-ed w/several

Has a plan to lynch the Hunter and thus determine Steve's alignment.

Thanks for clearing that up Lottie. So another reason that's a bad idea.

I'm going to vote for:

[*highlight]++Nog[/highlight]

Edit: x-ed with Nerwen

Votes Nog - a good idea.

I'll have to address this toMorrow if I'm around.

Says that she'll answer Nerwen toMorrow - conviently after she could potentially get tips from her packmates. I might be grasping a straws here, though. Here's Nerwen's quoted post:

No new ground– just that you voted someone you believed innocent, when there was someone else you actually suspected. Now, toDay you explain this by saying it was clearly going to be either BG or Steve, and Steve was the one you wanted to save.

All right.

But you also seem more concerned about how you look than the rights or wrongs of the case:

Are you saying you're hoping Eonwe is lynched and turns out innocent? Because that's what it looks like you're saying.

And then, you seem to be latching on to everyone's suspicions.

EDIT:X'd with everybody. And now I'm running out of time again (slow internet!)

Tum, I would like to see you answer these.

~~~~~~

NOOOOOOO!!! *Dies*

Now go and lynch Nogrod.

Words of wisdom from the mouths of mortals shall spring...

Pre-edit: I've xed since Nog's first post of the Day.

Real-edit: Whaaa? I didn't x? How utterly boring...

[Nogrod]

Ahh… so I tried to look at the votings yesterday evening as I knew Iwould be short on time this morning and like I said above, one thing emerges from there quite clearly – and it’s not going to ease our job. We have had two days with two major bandwagons in both – and all those wagonned have been innocents (you'll see the truth of this later, so bear with me for a while).

But what doest that mean? Well, basically the wolves have been able to sit back and relax in all idleness on both Days, without any risk one of them or their lover’s were at stake (only Nerwen got two votes outside the major wagons and actually was tied for a moment with the other to-be-real-wagoned, but it was immediately voted into a non-possibility – all the other votes outside the wagons have been singular!). Somehow what happened in the end of D2 also just looks soo like it.

Also it is unhelpful because so few did any real work trying to come up with suspicions of their own and most ran on the suspicions of others – as there were only a few talking points on both Days. So it has been relatively easy for the wolves to fit in with their votes just echoing others on the few who have been discussed (and I do carry the blame myself as well).

I think two situations merit some discussion though. That doesn’t mean the wolves are there and only there, but that those are the two situations that stick out from the other, possibly more carefully placed votes of which it’s just so much harder to say anything. And sure, voting-action isn’t the only place to look for wolves. I know.

So on D1, on a situation where BeiGei had 5 votes, Eonwë had 2 and Nerwen had just received the 2nd vote (with a few one voters), Shasta and Lottie give votes to Eonwë lifting him high up above Nerwen and practically make it a race between BeiGei and Eonwë, two known innocents.

Okay, if they (or one of them) were trying to help Nerwen out why didn’t they just vote for BeiGei? A good question, but then again, it might have been too suspicious a choice to go for such an overpowering wagon (and /or maybe their earlier comments didn’t allow them to - I don't have time to go through them at the moment, sorry).

Interestingly I have suspected all three already before noticing that… (which doesn't make it a better case, but I'd say worthwhile to remember)


Another one is the deal-making at the end of D2 where phantom and Mac (with the late confirmation of Nerwen) decided between me and Eonwë – while suggesting different candidates to each other and Lottie & Tum. I mean, yes I do appreciate your discussions of choice reasoning-wise – and heh, it’s nice to be alive anyway, so I also do appreciate your final decision. But there was something in the air of that discussion, in the relative ease in which different people were brought in and taken out of it, that makes me really feel like I should rethink one or some of you (remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents). Surely I do not think you all three are wolves, but it is most unlikely you all are innocent. Or then we really do have a “lay-low” lupine community who are not interested in hanging around there in the end.

And Lottie and Tum then? They were clearly not so happy with the alternatives but tried to get me lynched whatever the other possibilities? Hmm… Maybe the given alternatives included a wolf they (one of them) didn’t like at all? Also, it is easy to see why the wolves would have wanted me dead rather than Eonwë – now that they had a chance. Eonwë could be lynched later, or maybe he really was the cursed and they could turn him the next Night?

In general I’d suggest that as wrong as it was, it did look pretty plausible Eonwë was the cursed yesterday, so those trying to save him might have been those who thought he could be useful to them?


On another note. There are only two people who have systematically stayed out of both bandwagons, namely Greenie and Rikae. I need to give the benefit of doubt to Greenie as she has voted so early on both Days and Mac has seemed to be a possible candidate on both Days at that time (which doesn’t mean a smart wolf wouldn’t take her chances with the time-zone situation and laugh at it behind the scenes how easy it is), but Rikae has been around to the late hours and has still avoided the bandwagons on both Days (first with the only vote to the phantom and the other one with a self-vote). Does that look like trying to show an independent image? Well, clearly. But what’s the reason behind it?


A random point…

Inzil and Wilwa have been successfully attending the winning bandwagon on both Days, staying low but still adding to the wagons at more or less important points. Neat.

[Nogrod]

Hey Lottie. If you see the trouble going through someone's posts and re-posting them, you could add some analysis of your own - or points of your own. I mean what do you think of the person and her possible innocence / lupinity? Otherwise it's quite futile bussiness that doesn't exactly help that much.

[Nogrod]

I need to hit the road now. Will be back occasionally (hopefully) the next few Days.


We have been so far from getting a wolf thus far that some re-scanning might do us good.

Looking at the votings I do find Lottie involved in both cases I found worth noticing.

On D1, if there was an attempt to save Nerwen, then Lottie's vote is the one that looks more suspicious.

In the end of D2 she seemed more intrested in discussing with Tum than actually considering the voting. So she had her mind made and avoided taking too much a stance on the alternatives. But that's often the mistake the wolves make: when they are on safe-ground at the end of the Day they play casually and do not pay too much attention as to who gets lynched (if it's okay to them, whicever of the candidates dies). Innocents are always a bit worried there, and it mostly shows somewhere.

++ Lottie

It's not the best vote ever made, but I have a feeling it's not that bad either.

Hoping to get online in some near future... hopefully toMorrow, but at least on Day5... (if alive and all that).

Better luck for wolf-hunting toDay!

[Loslote]

So on D1, on a situation where BeiGei had 5 votes, Eonwë had 2 and Nerwen had just received the 2nd vote (with a few one voters), Shasta and Lottie give votes to Eonwë lifting him high up above Nerwen and practically make it a race between BeiGei and Eonwë, two known innocents.

Okay, if they (or one of them) were trying to help Nerwen out why didn’t they just vote for BeiGei? A good question, but then again, it might have been too suspicious a choice to go for such an overpowering wagon (and /or maybe their earlier comments didn’t allow them to - I don't have time to go through them at the moment, sorry).

You know, that Day I really didn't see Nerwen as at all a possible candidate for lynching. There was no (or at least very little) support at that time for suspecting her. And you don't get to call Steve a known innocent for Day 1 and then say that it was perfectly viable to think he was Cursed Day 2:

In general I’d suggest that as wrong as it was, it did look pretty plausible Eonwë was the cursed yesterday, so those trying to save him might have been those who thought he could be useful to them?


I'm sorry, but that just doesn't match up.

Another one is the deal-making at the end of D2 where phantom and Mac (with the late confirmation of Nerwen) decided between me and Eonwë – while suggesting different candidates to each other and Lottie & Tum. I mean, yes I do appreciate your discussions of choice reasoning-wise – and heh, it’s nice to be alive anyway, so I also do appreciate your final decision. But there was something in the air of that discussion, in the relative ease in which different people were brought in and taken out of it, that makes me really feel like I should rethink one or some of you (remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents). Surely I do not think you all three are wolves, but it is most unlikely you all are innocent. Or then we really do have a “lay-low” lupine community who are not interested in hanging around there in the end.

And Lottie and Tum then? They were clearly not so happy with the alternatives but tried to get me lynched whatever the other possibilities? Hmm… Maybe the given alternatives included a wolf they (one of them) didn’t like at all? Also, it is easy to see why the wolves would have wanted me dead rather than Eonwë – now that they had a chance. Eonwë could be lynched later, or maybe he really was the cursed and they could turn him the next Night?

So they're suspicious for throwing out different options and we're suspicious for not liking this?

Hey Lottie. If you see the trouble going through someone's posts and re-posting them, you could add some analysis of your own - or points of your own. I mean what do you think of the person and her possible innocence / lupinity? Otherwise it's quite futile bussiness that doesn't exactly help that much.

Okay. I think it's likely that she's a wolf. In fact, I think it's probable. If you saw no points in my post, I don't know what to tell you. I wrote down what I saw, and made points for and (more often) against her innocence.

In the end of D2 she seemed more intrested in discussing with Tum than actually considering the voting. So she had her mind made and avoided taking too much a stance on the alternatives. But that's often the mistake the wolves make: when they are on safe-ground at the end of the Day they play casually and do not pay too much attention as to who gets lynched (if it's okay to them, whicever of the candidates dies). Innocents are always a bit worried there, and it mostly shows somewhere.

I thought you just suspected me for taking a stand against the proposed lynch options? Yeah, I had my mind made - I was going to vote for one of the people I'd thought rationally about, rather than a last-minute "hey, she exists - let's kill her" type bandwagon.

[Nerwen]

Another one is the deal-making at the end of D2 where phantom and Mac (with the late confirmation of Nerwen) decided between me and Eonwë – while suggesting different candidates to each other and Lottie & Tum. I mean, yes I do appreciate your discussions of choice reasoning-wise – and heh, it’s nice to be alive anyway, so I also do appreciate your final decision. But there was something in the air of that discussion, in the relative ease in which different people were brought in and taken out of it, that makes me really feel like I should rethink one or some of you (remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents). Surely I do not think you all three are wolves, but it is most unlikely you all are innocent. Or then we really do have a “lay-low” lupine community who are not interested in hanging around there in the end.
Isn't this paragraph self-contradictory? By your own logic, Nog, the wolves had no reason to be active in the voting. You know, since you're so clearly innocent.:rolleyes:

For the record, as one of the people involved in what you call "deal-making", it seemed to me the talk went round and round, not because we were all having a relaxed friendly chat, but because of the general level of distrust. ("Why is Mac so intent finding someone else to lynch instead of Eonwe?" etc.)

Also, it is easy to see why the wolves would have wanted me dead rather than Eonwë – now that they had a chance. Eonwë could be lynched later, or maybe he really was the cursed and they could turn him the next Night?

In general I’d suggest that as wrong as it was, it did look pretty plausible Eonwë was the cursed yesterday, so those trying to save him might have been those who thought he could be useful to them?
Oh. I thought you voted him for being a possible wolf. (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635382&postcount=454) And who else was even talking about him being the Cursed yesterDay? I don't say it was never mentioned in passing, but I thought the main question was whether he might be a wolf.

Still, I'm thankful. There I was, feeling bad at having helped lynch an innocent– but apparently I can set my mind at rest, since trying to save him was the true sign of wolvery! I see!

EDIT:X'd since Nog at #566.

[Nerwen]

So they're suspicious for throwing out different options and we're suspicious for not liking this?

I hereby dub this type of reasoning "Nogrod's Fork". :smokin:

[A Little Green]

Also, it is easy to see why the wolves would have wanted me dead rather than Eonwë – now that they had a chance. Eonwë could be lynched later, or maybe he really was the cursed and they could turn him the next Night?

In general I’d suggest that as wrong as it was, it did look pretty plausible Eonwë was the cursed yesterday, so those trying to save him might have been those who thought he could be useful to them?
Oh. I thought you voted him for being a possible wolf. And who else was even talking about him being the Cursed yesterDay? I don't say it was never mentioned in passing, but I thought the main question was whether he might be a wolf.I imagine Nog was speaking in retrospect (ie. now that we know Eonwe wasn't a wolf) and from the wolves' point of view (they would have known Eonwe was not a wolf, but could have suspected him to be the cursed). At least, that was the impression I got.

[Lalaith]

What follows is more or less a transcript of my notes of impressions as I read through everything that has happened since I went to bed on Day 2, so apologies if it is a little bitty.

Eonwe – well, he was telling the truth after all, he was the Ord. I think the most likely thing is that Boro was a false seer and dreamt of Eonwe as a wolf. It occurred to me today that the -4 might have been a reference to four wolves. If this is the case then it’s very good news for us because we would now have two True Seers rather than two False.

My other main voting possibility of yesterday - Tum – looking over Loslote’s analysis and my own reading of her posts, she seems to be playing the ingénue. Well it might be playing - or it might be for real. Zil’s analysis of her yesterDay was more damning that Los’ analysis today (which made her look more like a for-real ingenue.) And on the subject of Los - I agree with Nog, why post such a long analysis without drawing any concrete conclusions? It looks a bit dodgy to me.
One thing that did play well with me, was Tum’s “here I am, what do you want to know” late last Day. It seemed a fairly candid, innocentish thing to do.
I think I am fairly sure about one thing - Tum, Mac and Los are unlikely to be wolves together.
And further development on this theme - both Mac and Nogs seem to have stopped going for each other and both turned their sights on Lottie. I need to look at her more closely myself, I don’t think we’ve ever played together so I don’t have a real feel for her at all.

Then, one of the major post-bedtime events of yesterday was this last minute rallying of votes for someone other than Eonwe. Now I can see the purpose of doing that but that purpose is rather defeated if the voting is orchestrated in the way Mac seemed to be doing. And the talk of Nienna as “easy victim” needs explaining.

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:
remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents

Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...

[Nerwen]

I imagine Nog was speaking in retrospect (ie. now that we know Eonwe wasn't a wolf) and from the wolves' point of view (they would have known Eonwe was not a wolf, but could have suspected him to be the cursed). At least, that was the impression I got.
Well, maybe it's a language problem, again. But he does sound like he's saying it was a common consensus yesterDay that Steve was a likely Cursed, and it certainly wasn't.

I draw attention to this because it provides such a convenient reason to argue that the people who tried to save a known innocent look worse for it than those who lynched him (such as, you know, Nog himself).

EDIT:Added comment.

[Nerwen]

#565 revisted

Nogrod's Guide to Suspicious Behaviour

1. Jumping on bandwagons
Inzil and Wilwa have been successfully attending the winning bandwagon on both Days, staying low but still adding to the wagons at more or less important points. Neat.

2. Not jumping on bandwagons
...Rikae has been around to the late hours and has still avoided the bandwagons on both Days (first with the only vote to the phantom and the other one with a self-vote). Does that look like trying to show an independent image? Well, clearly. But what’s the reason behind it?


3. Voting for known innocents
Shasta and Lottie give votes to Eonwë lifting him high up above Nerwen and practically make it a race between BeiGei and Eonwë, two known innocents.

4. Not voting for them
In general I’d suggest that as wrong as it was, it did look pretty plausible Eonwë was the cursed yesterday, so those trying to save him might have been those who thought he could be useful to them?


5. Looking for alternative candidates
Another one is the deal-making at the end of D2 where phantom and Mac (with the late confirmation of Nerwen) decided between me and Eonwë – while suggesting different candidates to each other (...) But there was something in the air of that discussion, in the relative ease in which different people were brought in and taken out of it, that makes me really feel like I should rethink one or some of you (remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents). Surely I do not think you all three are wolves, but it is most unlikely you all are innocent.

6. Not looking for them
And Lottie and Tum then? They were clearly not so happy with the alternatives but tried to get me lynched whatever the other possibilities? Hmm… Maybe the given alternatives included a wolf they (one of them) didn’t like at all?


Nogrod's Fork sure has a lot of tines, hasn't it?

[Macalaure]

Quick analysis of the late votes yesterDay:

Even before I asked around, Nerwen voices suspicion of Nogrod. She doesn't mind lynching Eonwe and suspects Autume. She later goes on to ponder voting Eonwe and is the only one at this point to actually give reasons. After it's narrowed down to him or Nienna, she declines voting for her.

Phantom doesn't have any suspects. I start to think this is suspicious, since I tend to expect more from him. Replying to my question, he pulls Nienna out of his hat and is willing to shoot in the dark with Lottie. He's really vague around Nogrod, first saying that being wrong doesn't make him evil, then asking me whether we should lynch him before finding out. It creeps me out a little, since he's obviously willing to go along with lynching Nogrod as long as somebody else does the work. Passiveness from the phantom?
Then there's:
Yeah, whatever, I'll try Nienna if you want, Mac
What? While I was very willing to lynch her, he brought her up in the first place. This really looks like he knows she's innocent, doesn't mind lynching her, but tries to put the blame on me.
Okay, but seriously, are we going to take a submarine shot or not?
I kind of took over the lead of "let's not lynch Eonwe", that's true, but the way he's defering to my leadership and tries to keep his hands cleaner than mine is unsettling. He then officially narrows the possibilities down to Eonwe or Nienna, however. No mention of Nogrod anymore. After the Nogrod-votes come in, he saves him by voting Eonwe.

Autume doesn't know about Nogrod and is not eager to go after Lottie. She's willing to go after anyone else, though, a statement so general it makes me uneasy. She later states about Nienna that there's not much there, but that that's the case with other people, too, and she'd give it a try. Don't know what to think of that. She also spends some time defending herself from Loslote. Later she says she'd try Nogrod and does so after Lottie took the lead. She's passive again, but that's the way she is, I guess. If the Nogrod-waggon had been successful, her vote would have stood out, so I don't think a wolf would have made it.

Loslote defends herself a lot and dares us to lynch her. Declines Nienna, is willing to go for Nogrod and then does so. She doesn't really take much part in the actual who-to-vote-for debate, which makes me feel better.

Should be find Nienna to be a wolf, we'll have some nice pointers on Nerwen and Lottie, right? Probably not. They wouldn't have been so clear that they won't vote for her if they were packmates.



Comments on toDay:

The phantom is way too optimistic. We were lucky to not lynch a heavy gifted, but the way of our votings have been very clueless. I would really like to know who you actually suspect.

Lottie made a post that takes longer to scroll past than it takes to read others. :rolleyes:

Another one is the deal-making at the end of D2 where phantom and Mac (with the late confirmation of Nerwen) decided between me and EonwëDealmaking looks different, I think. And if you closely read the discussion, you were barely discussed between us. It was others who chose to go for you. In the end, all discussion between me and tp was pointless.

I understand the reasons behind Nogrod's vote. On the other hand, he did choose a person who could conceivably be turned into a bandwaggon that will eventually run against his own.

Though it might be painful to plough through it again, I think we'll need to have a close look at the debate around Eonwe yesterDay and who gave what reasons. There have to be some bad points made.

I think the most likely thing is that Boro was a false seer and dreamt of Eonwe as a wolf. [...] If this is the case then it’s very good news for us because we would now have two True Seers rather than two False.Don't bet too much money on this. We absolutely do not know for certain Boro dreamt of Eonwe, so we don't know whether he was real or not. Also, as neat as it would be to be able to tell the realness of both seers at once, Hestia took her pick during Night 2, so she could have picked the still-alive Boro.

[satansaloser2005]

When Phantom's right, he's right.

-OR-

I know something you dunno. :)


Have to eat breakfast or I may die. But I'm not going to work today (my aunt needs my help with some stuff) so I'll hopefully be around more than I have in the past.

[Nerwen]

We absolutely do not know for certain Boro dreamt of Eonwe, so we don't know whether he was real or not. Also, as neat as it would be to be able to tell the realness of both seers at once, Hestia took her pick during Night 2, so she could have picked the still-alive Boro
I was thinking, from the narration, that for some reason Hestia hadn't got to make her pick until last Night, but I see I misunderstood. So in theory we night have two false Seers!

But I do think Boro was likely the false one– we now know for certain that he didn't correctly dream an Eonwolf, and if he dreamed Mira it seems he was given wrong information about her.

EDIT: X'd with Sally; fixed quotes.

[satansaloser2005]

I was thinking, from the narration, that for some reason Hestia hadn't got to make her pick until last Night, but I see I misunderstood. So in theory we night have two false Seers!

But I do think Boro was likely the false one– we now know for certain that he didn't correctly dream an Eonwolf, and if he dreamed Mira it seems he was given wrong information about her.

EDIT: X'd with Sally; fixed quotes.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What's this about Mira?

[Macalaure]

I was thinking, from the narration, that for some reason Hestia hadn't got to make her pick until last Night, but I see I misunderstood. So in theory we night have two false Seers!Or one real and one false.

But I do think Boro was likely the false one– we now know for certain that he didn't correctly dream an Eonwolf, and if he dreamed Mira it seems he was given wrong information about her.We know that Boro was suspicious of Eonwe, but an actual dream is very uncertain to me. And I don't think we can infer anything about Mira's role from Boro.

[Nerwen]

Or one real and one false.

We know that Boro was suspicious of Eonwe, but an actual dream is very uncertain to me. And I don't think we can infer anything about Mira's role from Boro.

I said, "likely". I agree we can't tell for sure, but at least there's no positive evidence for his having dreamed correctly.

[wilwarin538]

Of course, if our remaining Seer (Apollo) happens to be false, so is Hestia, unless I've got things badly wrong. However, looks like Boro was the false one, anyway.


It doesn't matter either way, the Mytho could have just as easily picked Boro as they could have picked whoever the other Seer is. There's no way to know whether they're False or not right now.


Eonwe – well, he was telling the truth after all, he was the Ord. I think the most likely thing is that Boro was a false seer and dreamt of Eonwe as a wolf. It occurred to me today that the -4 might have been a reference to four wolves. If this is the case then it’s very good news for us because we would now have two True Seers rather than two False.


That's interesting (about the number 4). But yeah, about your last part, not necessarily, since the Mytho made their choice Night 2 (when Boro was still alive).

So about my vote yesterDay, I feel bad for just coming in like that without much explanation, but I won't apoligise for it cause there was some unexpected family issues happening, and I had a hard enough time walking away from it long enough to vote, there was no way I could do more. But I'll try not to let it happen again, I would much rather vote for someone I really suspect.

Also about yesterDay (I've only lightly skimmed through what I missed, I'll get back to it later), I have no idea where the Nienna thing came from. Was her name just randomly chosen? Are we just going to lynch random people now without any real suspicion? Later today I'm taking a closer look at that, because the whole thing just makes me uneasy. Eonwe made at least a bit of sense, even if he maybe didn't look *that* suspicious, he had been discussed to be a possible Cursed and if anything it would have stopped us from just considering him again toDay and wasting time. It was ideal, but it made more sense than Nienna.

Lottie's long post there, I'm not even going to read it, it's huge and unnecessarily so. It just looks to be a bunch of quotes with little comments. Maybe a nice little summary of the important points you were trying to make, would make it easier to understand what you think is so bad about Tum? At this point, I don't feel like reading all that.

Nerwen's points about Nog's "fork" are interesting. He does seem to be rather stubborn in his suspicions, and then suspects anyone who doesn't agree with his reasoning. And it seems no matter what someone does, it can be seen as suspicious somehow (which I guess can always happen, but when it's to the point that you're contradicting yourself, than it just seems like a stretch).

edit: Gotta run out for a couple of hours, than I should be around alot.

x'ed with Mac and Nerwen

[Nerwen]

I'm sorry, but I must have missed something. What's this about Mira?
Boro made a funny remark to her on Day One, asking her to pick him if she could, because "I gotta know"– sounds like he might have dreamed her as Pan or Eros. Only, he died in the Night anyway, which of course suggests she isn't.

EDIT:X'd with Wilwa.

[satansaloser2005]

Boro made a funny remark to her on Day One, asking her to pick him if she could, because "I gotta know"– sounds like he might have dreamed her as Pan or Eros. Only, he died in the Night anyway, which of course suggests she isn't.

EDIT:X'd with Wilwa.

Oh, that's right. I do remember that now. I actually thought he might have picked up on what he thought were hints that she was a ranger, not that he dreamt her. (I didn't see any hints, but you never know what Boro might have interpreted as one.)

[satansaloser2005]

Consider the source? :rolleyes:

So I hate to bring this up, because it's completely cheap, but Hestia ccould totally come out toDay. I'll give you how (that's the cheap part) and then I'll give you why.

Eros could protect him/her toNight (provided that he didn't last Night) and Pan (under the same restrictions) could protect hm/her the next, etc. We could test Hestia's dreams and see if they were true, and if not, the rangers could (I suppose) stop protecting him/her on rotation. If he/she is the real seer, though, we'd have him/her around at least long enough to clear a hopefully long list of people.

Of course it would be better in a way if Apollo came out, because he/she has had more dreams, but if Hestia told us who he/she picked (as in whether or not he/she picked Boro, as we don't want to know otherwise) we could find out through the above process whether Boro was the false seer, and likewise, Apollo would know if they were the true seer or not. So Apollo gives us more information, but Hestia can tell us if any of that information is useful.

So basically....I think I'm suggesting that we sacrifice Hestia. Sort of. I don't really like the idea of putting her in harm's way, but at the same time it will give us (or at least the other seer) invaluable information as to the truth of the seers' dreams.

Of course if Hestia is now our real seer and he/she is killed because of this plan, we're in deep crap. (If that happens, I completely offer myself for lynch as penance, though it won't really help us with anything at that point.) However, at least we would know which seer is which, as would Apollo. If Apollo's dreams are false, they're (by which I mean the dreams) are of no use, so they'll obviously not rely on them. However, if they know their dreams are in fact true, it could help us out later (especially if Apollo manages to stay hidden for quite a long time).

So, what do you think? Could it work? Is it worth it?

[autume98]

But you also seem more concerned about how you look than the rights or wrongs of the case:

Are you saying you're hoping Eonwe is lynched and turns out innocent? Because that's what it looks like you're saying.

And then, you seem to be latching on to everyone's suspicions.


I want to address this since I didn't get a chance to yesterDay. I was NOT hoping for Eonwe to get lynched. I was saying that IF he did get lynched that I was hoping he was innocent which it turned out he was.

As for latching onto everyone's suspicions, I didn't realize I was. I know that people have made comments about me agreeing with others. It was day one. I haven't played that many games so I am still getting used to the feel of day one. I think I am catching on, usually it is ok to joke around on day 1, but form your own opinions. Don't just agree with others or else it looks like a wolf hiding amongst the innocent. Gotcha! :)

[Nerwen]

We could test Hestia's dreams and see if they were true, and if not, the rangers could (I suppose) stop protecting him/her on rotation.
But how do we test them, unless she's dreamed a wolf?

EDIT:X'd with tum

[A Little Green]

I was NOT hoping for Eonwe to get lynched. I was saying that IF he did get lynched that I was hoping he was innocent which it turned out he was. This makes me raise my eyebrows a bit. Why on earth would you hope the one we lynch turns out innocent? Unless you're a wolf that is, but if you are you wouldn't say it aloud!

[satansaloser2005]

I want to address this since I didn't get a chance to yesterDay. I was NOT hoping for Eonwe to get lynched. I was saying that IF he did get lynched that I was hoping he was innocent which it turned out he was.

Dude, that don't make no sense. (And the double negative was strangely to prove my point, believe it or not.) I know you didn't want to get him lynched, but only one group of peole hopes that a lynch victim turns out innocent. That's the wolves.

Let me explain. Once (off-Downs) I was an innocent and the lynch was going in a direction I didn't approve of. I was fairly certain (as certain as another innocent can be anyway) that the person was innocent, but no one would listen to me. After the fact, I did an "I told you so" dance, but I was not hoping that he was innocent. I was hoping that people would either listen to me and not lynch the person I thought innocent, or that perhaps I was wrong and he would turn out to be a wolf. Occasionally, yes, I've been known to trap people with their votes, and innocents have to die, but I never hope for an innocent to die, I hope for the tells from the people who are trying to lynch them. There's a big difference.

Basically, you never hope that you're right about someone's innocence and that they'll be lynched. The game doesn't work like that. Unless you're evil.


EDIT: x'd with a little sensical one :)

[satansaloser2005]

But how do we test them, unless she's dreamed a wolf?

That's my problem. Unless of course one of his/her dreams is Night killed or something, or he/she dreams a wolf, we're rather without a way to test this theory.

Actually, I have a rather fool-proof (to some extent) plan for this. If Hestia dreams Nog toNight (assuming that Nog isn't Hestia, of course) and Nog is something the village can spare (no offense, dear) we can lynch him as our test subject. I say this (and am okay with his sacrifice) because he's stated he can't be around, and this will both help the village and free him of his commitment to the game. Seers receive actual roles, like god/goddess titles, so if Nog isn't exactly what Hestia was told, Hestia is the false seer (or Nog's role was revealed correctly by chance, but those odds are very slim with so many people still alive).

[Nerwen]

I was saying that IF he did get lynched that I was hoping he was innocent which it turned out he was.
So you were saying that!

EDIT:X'd with Sally.

[autume98]

So you were saying that!

EDIT:X'd with Sally.

Let me try this again. Am I happy that an innocent is dead. No. I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

[autume98]

Did I miss something? How do we know Hestia is Seer?

[Rikae]

Ok, something I noticed in Lottie's Tum-analysis:

And suggests that he might have been hinting as a lover. Actually, I think she was the first to come up with this theory, which looks much better for her.

Just one example of several; apparently Lottie's suspicion of Tum is based heavily on the assumption that Mac is evil. Slip? What is this? Nope, Lottie, we can't know this "look\s good" without knowing Mac's role... do you?

So yeah, there is analysis in the post, despite what Nog and Nerwen say; yet it's illogical at best and suspicious at worst. Makes me wonder about them, as well.

Now, as for Sally's Hestia plan... we've already discussed how someone protected every night can be taken out by a revenge-kill, so no, I'm not sure that's the best strategy.

Hmmm... and to Nog, though he isn't around, I'd just like to say: when have I ever been one to jump on bandwagons? I don't approve of them. If my vote makes a difference, I may vote for someone who has votes on a weak suspicion to save someone I think is innocent, sure, but when there's an unstoppable stampede toward someone I don't think should be lynched, would you have me join in just to be - what? Inconspicuous? Nope. Not how I roll. :rolleyes:

I'm afraid I have a lot on my plate today, so I can't promise the volume of posting I've had up until now, but I'll do my best.

[Inziladun]

Nice! No wolf-kill and possibly two legitimate Seers. I do tend to lean toward Boro being the false one at this point.

A few thoughts about last Night:


Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

++Rikae

Let's just take this as an admission and lynch her. Any takers? :p

Classic! Can I just say I really like your vote. :D

I can totally see why you did it though. No one has jumped out at me as a wolf.

A pointless vote on Day 2 meets your approval, does it?

For my own part, I do think the fact that the Seer voted Steve while making the cryptic "neg 4" remark– and got killed in the Night may be significant. I've said why I don't think Boro actually dreamed an Eonwolf, but if such he is, it might be enough if the pack thought he had.

Well, that "Neg 4" bit was what in the end induced me to vote for Steve. I couldn't see why Boro would have said something so emphatic unless he knew something (or thought he did).

I'm thankful for the more time we had toDay, and then this idea hits me. Why not lynch someone else, and have the Hunter go after Eonwe. If he dies than we know he's a wolf. The big flaw we'd have to pull this all of in nine minutes, and the Hunter would have to see this post. So basically a bad plan this late toDay.:rolleyes:

This looks like a ploy to get two innocents lynched. You yourself kept saying over and over you thought Eönwë was innocent. Yet you were ok with the Hunter killing him?

And toDay:

And further development on this theme - both Mac and Nogs seem to have stopped going for each other and both turned their sights on Lottie. I need to look at her more closely myself, I don’t think we’ve ever played together so I don’t have a real feel for her at all.

That's interesting. Mac also stated yesterDay he would not be voting for Nog.

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:


Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...

Another interesting observation. I'd also like to hear his explanation of that.

#565 revisted

Nogrod's Guide to Suspicious Behaviour

1. Jumping on bandwagons


2. Not jumping on bandwagons



3. Voting for known innocents


4. Not voting for them



5. Looking for alternative candidates


6. Not looking for them



Nogrod's Fork sure has a lot of tines, hasn't it?

There seems to be a good deal of truth in this. It seems as if anyone can be suspicious to Nog in this game, for any reason, depending on the moment.

Let me try this again. Am I happy that an innocent is dead. No. I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

However, like I said, you were on board with the Hunter killing him.

Did I miss something? How do we know Hestia is Seer?

Said so in the narrative.

x/d with Rikae

[Nerwen]

Just one example of several; apparently Lottie's suspicion of Tum is based heavily on the assumption that Mac is evil. Slip? What is this? Nope, Lottie, we can't know this "look\s good" without knowing Mac's role... do you?

So yeah, there is analysis in the post, despite what Nog and Nerwen say.

Eh? I don't think I commented on that post at all. Tell the truth I haven't read it properly yet.
EDIT:X'd with Zil; added comment.

[Rikae]

Sorry Nerwen - I seem to have gotten something confused. When I went back over the posts I couldn't even figure out where I got that.

[the phantom]

First, Nog is flailing again.

Lottie and Nerwen already pointed out many problems with his arguments, and as far as his vote is concerned... Sorry, but after the events of Day 2, Lottie is about as innocent a person as we have around here. (And no, I'm not going to explain that remark, so don't ask. If you view me as innocent then just take that one on faith.)

Mac, in answer to you- due to the way this village is set up (it's very unique with all the gifted roles and the like), I am playing in a much different mode, particularly early on. Now that we're three days into the game I imagine I'll normalize a bit (as far as suspecting people), but my first two days was primarily trying to identify gifteds I could work with and not lynch them rather than looking so much for suspects, especially with all the people who could swap affiliations. Frankly the village was too large and complex, and I wanted to wait until we were at a more managable number to really roll my sleeves up. And hey- I like where we stand, and I feel I have a bead on a few roles.
Replying to my question, he pulls Nienna out of his hat and is willing to shoot in the dark with Lottie.
Nienna wasn't completely out of a hat. Out of the low posters (Kath, Meeper, Sally, and Folwren) she was the one I had the least feel for (I had said specifically earlier that I liked Folwren and Meeper), and I was keen to take a shot at a submarine since I figured I might not get a feel for them at any point anyway. And as far as Lottie goes, I only was willing to take a shot at her until she showed up, at which point her defense completely took her off the table so far as I was concerned.

And your quotes of me where I'm letting you take the lead and I'm "keeping clean"- instead read them as me trying to say, "Hey, Mac, seriously, I'm on board with you. I trust you. Make the call." Not to mention that doing such a thing isn't "keeping clean" at all, but quite clearly letting someone else take the risk. Honestly, who exactly is going to be fooled by such completely obvious posturing?

And the reason there was no mention of Nog any more was because you said you wanted to give him another day! Once you said that I left him alone so far as I remember. Fact is I thought you were innocent and also thought I had your possible role narrowed quite far down, and was attempting to come on board with you. And no, I'm not putting you at increased risk by saying that, as everyone is gifted at this point.

[Nerwen]

Ok, something I noticed in Lottie's Tum-analysis:
Originally Posted by Lottie
And suggests that he might have been hinting as a lover. Actually, I think she was the first to come up with this theory, which looks much better for her.

Just one example of several; apparently Lottie's suspicion of Tum is based heavily on the assumption that Mac is evil. Slip? What is this? Nope, Lottie, we can't know this "look\s good" without knowing Mac's role... do you?

Now that I have waded through Lottie's autumalysis, I believe she just meant that it "looked much better" because tum actually came up with that particular theory herself, whereas most of the time she's been like that one spambot that kept quoting other posts and adding "I agree with you".

While we're on the subject– Lottie, that is a horribly confusing way to set out your analysis. I think I know why you did it that way, but honestly, I'm not surprised so many people gave up in despair.:rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

So I knew Glirdan had to have plans up his sleeves; this game has been far too simple so far. I combed through the narrations carefully, looking for clues, but there were none to be found on a special game event or secret code.

Then I started looking at his admin thread posts. Still nothing. I was becoming disheartened but I knew that if I looked hard enough I could find his plan.

And found it I did.

the Night will LOOSE half an hour

Now the only thing we have to figure out is what the Night loosed upon us. Half an hour clearly stands for something, but I can't decide what. Perhaps it was a play on words for "half of our" and it's meant to signify another evil lover's activation? "Hell hath no fury" and all of that? Who could this be?!?! :eek:

[autume98]

This looks like a ploy to get two innocents lynched. You yourself kept saying over and over you thought Eönwë was innocent. Yet you were ok with the Hunter killing him?


That was an illogical plan that came to me as I was typing. It wasn't a ploy. It would've been a ploy if I pushed for it. In the end I negate it. With what u pointed out I would've negate it after that too. I don't want to lynch innocents.

I am beginning to wonder about Rikae's vote. I know I made a comment about it, but the first sentence was all said in fun...nothing was meant by it. My second line was about the fact that I wasn't sure who guilty at the time. Even then I didn't deem it appropriate to throw away my vote. I would take a look at her, but I have to be at work. If no one else does before I get back then I will.

[satansaloser2005]

I think the only one who wants to take a look at Rikae is Mac. :smokin:


In seriousness now, I think Tum's being a squirm nugget. (Yes, nuget. Shut up.) She seems very frustrated misunderstood new kid but it's not frustrated misunderstood innocent new kid. Her comments on Steve (despite her attempt to clean them up) and her general lack of proper....anything?....make me think that she is in fact a wolf (or evil on some level, or just plain not out for village victory like I am, and I don't like people who disagree with me :p).


I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't make that very clear in my original Nog plan post, but he's either unable to help the village -not his fault, but dying and revealing information could help us out considerably- or he doesn't want to help the village. Either way, let's get rid of him and make him as useful as possible.

[Rikae]

autume, if you want to try to get me lynched, that's all well and good, but can I just ask that you don't use chatspeak while doing so? That would really be adding insult to injury.

EDIT: X'd with Sally - more insults, hey.

[the phantom]

lol, Rikae, r u serius? :D

[satansaloser2005]

EDIT: X'd with Sally - more insults, hey.

That wasn't meant in a rude way. That was meant in a way I can't put on the Downs. See the dude? He's....well he's very....never mind, you get it. :cool:


EDIT: x'd with Phantom. I will smite thee with an epic smite (if I had such skills)!

[Rikae]

I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty.

But Sally, if we lose Hestia in the process, that doesn't do us a lot of good, does it? Let's say Hestia's a true seer, and Nog is a wolf - best case scenario. He dies, and if he has a lover, said lover is on the side of the village with special powers. Still, as soon as the remaining wolves have a chance, they'll take her out. But what if he's a wolf's lover? By lynching him we'd give special powers to a wolf, who would certainly use them to take out Hestia, right? And by not lynching him, we wouldn't learn anything.
And if Nog is an innocent, we've flushed out one of our seers for nothing. Now, if Hestia got her powers by picking the remaining seer and we find she's the genuine article, we then know we have another seer we can trust anyway, but if she got them by picking Boro, we'll have flushed out our ONLY TRUE seer. Soo... I think Hestia should only reveal, if she does want to do that, if she picked the other seer. If she picked Boro, she should keep quiet, as she may be too valuable to sacrifice. Just my two cents.

[Nerwen]

Let me try this again. Am I happy that an innocent is dead. No. I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

tum, it would be fair enough to argue the next Day, after Eonwe was dead, that his innocence made you look better.

It's quite another to say this about a still-living lynch-candidate:
Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good.
Do you really still not understand the difference?

Basically, you never hope that you're right about someone's innocence and that they'll be lynched. The game doesn't work like that. Unless you're evil.
Yes, but then, how often do baddies straight-out say, "Ooo, I do hope we lynch an innocent toDay"? They think it, of course, but they tend to keep that to themselves, rather.

I mean, I'm not saying what she said doesn't sound bad, but it's also just... weird.

Is it possible that tum is an innocent who still hasn't quite grasped the idea that WW is a team-game, and thinks it's about winning by herself? Some newbies do see it that way... but then I know she's played several games before this.:confused:

EDIT:X'd since Sally at #599.

[satansaloser2005]

Well from RL experience I know she's far from stupid, so....I don't know. I'm pretty sure she's of the furry variety. After all, this would only be her second (real) game as a baddie, so I could see some wolf cub mistakes like this still happening.

[Rikae]

lol, Rikae, r u serius? :D

Glirdan, I would like to use my assassination power on Phantom. What? I don't have any? Bah.

[A Little Green]

I still think my Hestia plan is valid. Not only do I think it would be nice to know that Hestia is te false seer (or the real one, if that's the case), I also think Nog's guilty. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't make that very clear in my original Nog plan post, but he's either unable to help the village -not his fault, but dying and revealing information could help us out considerably- or he doesn't want to help the village. Either way, let's get rid of him and make him as useful as possible.Hmm. While I'm not sure about Nog myself and while I think his death would shed some light on other things, I distrust Sally's idea of offhandedly killing him while he's not properly present. Like, not the idea itself so much, but the way she talks about it. Especially in the underlined part she sounds not only opportunistic but downright bloodthirsty. It's rather like she saw a great opportunity to get rid of Nog (ie. he's unable to put up a huge self-defense show) and decided to use it seemingly for common good. Now I believe an innocent Sally could certainly come up with something of that kind, but I'm not sure she'd introduce her idea quite like that.


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae, Nerwen, Sally and Rikae

[satansaloser2005]

Hmm. While I'm not sure about Nog myself and while I think his death would shed some light on other things, I distrust Sally's idea of offhandedly killing him while he's not properly present. Like, not the idea itself so much, but the way she talks about it. Especially in the underlined part she sounds not only opportunistic but downright bloodthirsty. It's rather like she saw a great opportunity to get rid of Nog (ie. he's unable to put up a huge self-defense show) and decided to use it seemingly for common good. Now I believe an innocent Sally could certainly come up with something of that kind, but I'm not sure she'd introduce her idea quite like that.


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae, Nerwen, Sally and Rikae


Greenie, I think he's guilty anyway (or at least has a good possibility of being so). I also don't plan to act without him being here. Hestia could dream him toNight and toMorrow we could enact the plan if everyone likes. I'm not sneak attacking him.

[Nienna]

Hey all, I'm around. I should be here now until Deadline if I must (though my sleeping habits would not approve). I agree that Hestia should only come out if she's comfortable with that. Sally's plan seems like that of an innocent. I'm not really worried about her at all.

I have some time so I think I'll do a few analysis(es?) of people. I'll probably pick a heavy poster and a light poster to begin with just because these things take me forever. Lets say Rikae and Zil.

I'll also try and keep up with what is being currently posted and give you my thoughts.

[the phantom]

I see no reason to do a special Seer-test plan. Remember, the Seer is not just being told innocence/guilt, but the actual role! It won't take long at all for the Seer to figure out if the dreams are right, and there's no reason to set up a special kill for it, especially if you believe that you are purposefully letting someone furry live an extra day in order to have a test subject. Plus, the business that it wouldn't be proper to off him because he's gone? If you think about it, your plan is much more cruel, as you're basically deciding, "We're going to wait for Nog to come back and then lynch him. That way he has all day to experience the frustration as he kicks and thrashes in vain."

[Lalaith]

A couple of points, having read through (very quickly) what's been posted since I've been gone...
1. Yes, I now see that Hestia could have named Boro just as easily as the other Seer. My bad.
2. Could somebody please try to explain that statement of Nogrod's that I highlighted about innocents earlier today? It's been niggling me all day and I simply can't think of a reason why he said it that isn't really, really dodgy.
3. A variant on Sally's Hestia-plan that might work better and be less wasteful of innocent lives.....we could wait until either Seer actually dreams of something that confirms that they are true or false, and they could then tell us. If it is Hestia, s/he would be able to confirm if the other Seer is true or false, without naming them. If the other Seer, Hestia would then know if s/he were true or false. Then the protection racket with the Ranger/Hunter-Guardian could kick in...does that sound better?
Anyway, more later when I've gone over posts more closely.

[A Little Green]

I went through Lalaith's posts. I'm not going to quote or even mention them all here, and most of my quotes are not entire posts - I'm just commenting on stuff that seemed noteworthy in one way or another. I picked her because I had no opinion whatsoever on her and don't believe many others do, either. Besides, her avatar is so cute that I keep forgetting that she can be a wolf just as well as anybody else. :rolleyes:

Day 1
Some interesting discussions here - I think the stuff about how to deal with the true/false seers is very helpful. Lots of people have actually been genuinely helpful today, and normally I go with that as a sign of innocence...unfortunately, I think that in this game, everyone, guilties and innocents alike, is trying to make sense of things so that is no longer a helpful guideline on how to vote.

Well, I am, like a few others here, forced to vote early due to European timezones. It's a baffling choice even by first day standards, and all I've got to go on is a hunch that the following vote could throw up something useful:
++BOROMIRThe fourth vote of the Day, and the only one for Boro. As she voted so early it's hard to condemn the vote this way or that. (Having voted even earlier on Day 1, I can totally relate to the lack of proper material.) I disagree with her on helpfulness=innocence, but that has nothing to do with her innocence/guilt so I won't dwell on that. Moving on...

Day 2
Interesting ideas about Boro. I missed the Mira/Keeper comment that phantom picked up on, it's ambiguous to say the least. As for my thoughts - reading over the thread yesterday, I thought I had picked up on Hunter hints from Boro.
Wilwa and Mac know better, if they're wolves to try and pick a fight and lynch me this early, because they know I wouldn't go down easily and in the veyr least if I died they would follow. Wilwa I like slightly more than Greenie in all of it.
In hindsight, it is of course good Seer tactics to pretend to be a Hunter. But would any of the above-named, if indeed they were wolves, seemingly being threatened, have risked a Boro kill?A good point about possible Hunter hints from Boro, and unless I'm mistaken she was the first to bring that up.
Greenie, like you I was unimpressed by the BG voters - to me she was newbie-ish, not wolf-ish - but but there were seven of them and they can't all be wolves. It was an easy first-day option for innocents and wolves alike, I guess. The Eonwe bandwaggon I have more sympathy with, as there was some reasoning behind it.For some reason this made me think of a really smooth wolf, disagreeing with the bandwagon but not too aggressively (so as not to rub anyone the wrong way). Hmm. Really I might be just paranoid though, there's nothing legitimately wrong with the quote.
Reading through the thread, I am finding Mac, Wilwa, Loslote and Nogrod (before it got too late, that is...!) looking helpful.
I am finding Keeper/Mira, Sally and autume rather strange.Apart from all the Boro stuff, this is the first time she posts opinions on other players.
Oh, I just wanted to remind everyone, in case they had forgotten, that today the Mythomane comes into play. Potentially. Although given the number of gifteds in this game, the chance of him/her picking something that makes a difference is pretty high.This makes me think better of her, because I'm not convinced a wolf would want to draw attention to the Mytho. If the Mytho picks a wolf, the pack certainly doesn't want the village to be reminded of that any more than is unavoidable; and if s/he picks a Gifted, I don't see a wolf wanting to parade that too much, either.
Sally, I know what you mean about feeling useless though. You actually worry me less today than you did yesterday.

Who has posted so far today? It seems like the focus has been on just a handful of players....it feels like a smaller village than it should be.

Also, the MM. I don't want to sound like I've got a bee in my bonnet but you do all realise there is just under a one in 4.5 chance that we now have five wolves?She keeps making sense and being nice. The last paragraph, about the Mytho, is something that left me a bit baffled. There was some confusion I believe about when the Mytho changes roles, but it didn't happen until the next Night. So I'm thinking - who, in the village, is most likely to dwell on the Mytho turning into a wolf? (Answer: the wolves.) A Lalwolf might have paid a lot of thought to the Mytho turning to a wolf (counting the probability and all such) and then thinking like "well, why not post it?" I'm not sure I'm making sense now though.
A lot of rowing going on, some of which is kind of hard to follow.
Well, I need to make up my mind soon as it is bedtime over here.
So first,....Our Big Beasts. I am actually not inclined to vote for any of these at present. Probably they are just fighting for the hell of it and most of them innocent anyway. Also I believe that the wolves and gifteds will sort out the high profile players – they will surely kill/dream of them at night leaving us with fewer suspects. My thoughts on them anyway…
Rikae…she does love a scrap, guilty or innocent she will never let things lie. I have never been able to tell the difference between a good or bad Rikae and this time is no different.
Nog – lots of talk and noise. Quite a lot of it makes sense but some of it is a bit more bonkers than usual. Why? Could be any number of reasons.
Phantom – definitely touchier than usual but he hasn’t played for a long time.

Next – some of the others who are coming under suspicion/attracting attention today
Mac – now I may be rusty but I don’t get where all this Mac suspicion is coming from. It could be because I was thinking along the same lines about Boro as he was, but he seems quite sensible to me.
Eonwe – now there is more cause for concern here. I agree Boro’s words are open to interpretation. But Eonwe also did something rather unhelpful today which might just have been careless but still…with not much to go on I know but with an early vote needed from me, he is a likely candidate.
Tum – Again, someone who may get my vote. Not happy about her(?) at all. Yesterday she seemed ‘off’, she was arguably the dodgiest of the BG votes and Zil’s case against her today was pretty good.
Nerwen – The Hades thing – well, maybe. If she’s Hades herself, she’s very bold. If she’s Persephone, all she would have needed to do is watch and read, so there would have been no need for such rashness. She’s definitely active and ready to get involved in all the rows.
And the rest…
Nienna – Now I didn’t much like her post today. She covered just a few players, only to say that she didn’t have a feel for half of them. Seemed overly desultory and posting-for-the-sake-of-it, although she might have just been RL busy.
Mira/Keeper – the whole Boro interchange yesterday was weird and I am not happy about her in general.
Shasta – comes, makes a few reasonably sensible statements and goes off again.
Folwren, see above, much like Shasta. Could be anything. I know some of you have said the same about me so it’s only fair to reserve judgment.
Lottie – I don’t know, I thought she seemed thoughtful yesterday but odd today. Reserving judgment
Zil – I liked the case he made against Tum, and he seemed to be unhappy about Nienna’s post as was I. as with Mac, I tend to trust those who seem to be thinking the way I do, so…
Sally – like I said, I thought she was acting oddly yesterday but I feel better about her today
Greenie – active, thoughtful and clearly trying to be fair – so I trust her for now
Wilwa – not seen her around as much today but seemed helpful yesterday so I’m quite at ease with her
Kath – her voice was ever soft, gentle and low, an excellent thing in woman, I suppose, but not necessarily during WW. Come on girl, check in and lets hear what you’ve got to say… So, if I may over-simplify a bit, she's saying approximately the following:
Positive: Mac, Inzil, Sally (was suspicious before but better now), Greenie, Wilwa
Negative: Eonwe, autume, Nienna, Mira
Has no clear opinion on the alignment of: Rikae, Nog, Phantom, Nerwen, Shasta, Folwren, Lottie, Kath
Oh curse these early votes. So difficult to decide.
Well as things stand it is between Eonwe and autume for me. Now Tum hasn't even been on today to defend herself, so it seems harsh to vote for her...I'm going to go for Eonwe. As I said before, there's a reasonable Boro-based case against him and the something else too.

++ EonweAnd here is her Day 2 vote. I'm debating now if it's the genuine tone or the plain easiness of the vote that I should pay more attention to. Her reference to "something else" (or " But Eonwe also did something rather unhelpful today which might just have been careless but still…" in her list post) makes me think slightly better of her, as I can't see what a wolf would gain in saying that, or how a wolf would come up with such in the first place.

Day 3
Eonwe – well, he was telling the truth after all, he was the Ord. I think the most likely thing is that Boro was a false seer and dreamt of Eonwe as a wolf. It occurred to me today that the -4 might have been a reference to four wolves. If this is the case then it’s very good news for us because we would now have two True Seers rather than two False.

My other main voting possibility of yesterday - Tum – looking over Loslote’s analysis and my own reading of her posts, she seems to be playing the ingénue. Well it might be playing - or it might be for real. Zil’s analysis of her yesterDay was more damning that Los’ analysis today (which made her look more like a for-real ingenue.) And on the subject of Los - I agree with Nog, why post such a long analysis without drawing any concrete conclusions? It looks a bit dodgy to me.
One thing that did play well with me, was Tum’s “here I am, what do you want to know” late last Day. It seemed a fairly candid, innocentish thing to do.
I think I am fairly sure about one thing - Tum, Mac and Los are unlikely to be wolves together.
And further development on this theme - both Mac and Nogs seem to have stopped going for each other and both turned their sights on Lottie. I need to look at her more closely myself, I don’t think we’ve ever played together so I don’t have a real feel for her at all.

Then, one of the major post-bedtime events of yesterday was this last minute rallying of votes for someone other than Eonwe. Now I can see the purpose of doing that but that purpose is rather defeated if the voting is orchestrated in the way Mac seemed to be doing. And the talk of Nienna as “easy victim” needs explaining.

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:
remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents
Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...Her only post this far toDay. She makes some shrewd points that are made from a very innocentish point of view. Just stuff that I'm not sure a wolf would have thought of.

So that was it. Conclusions? I'm fairly okay with Lal for now, though I haven't entirely abandoned the possibility of her being a very smooth wolf, either. The thing is, my logic can find nothing wrong with her. The Mytho thing was pretty much the only even half-legitimate point that could be made against her from what I read - and even that is rather questionable. Mostly the bad feelings I got from her posts were due to her being too understanding and nice and not rubbing anyone the wrong way, but as far as I recall she's always nice, so that's hardly a legitimate argument, either. Both her votes were relatively easy (the second one especially), but an early vote almost always is. She's generally consistent and sharp and makes points from an innocent viewpoint. So, in short - if she's a wolf, I'm almost tempted to say she deserves to win.


EDIT: x-ed with Nienna, Phantom and Lalaith herself

[Loslote]

I think I am catching on, usually it is ok to joke around on day 1, but form your own opinions. Don't just agree with others or else it looks like a wolf hiding amongst the innocent. Gotcha! :)

People have commented on this before, but I had to note - this looks very suspicious. She even says that she's working out how to not look like a wolf, instead of learning how to find wolves.

I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

It doesn't really, though. Because you see, only a wolf would know that he wasn't another wolf.

Just one example of several; apparently Lottie's suspicion of Tum is based heavily on the assumption that Mac is evil. Slip? What is this? Nope, Lottie, we can't know this "look\s good" without knowing Mac's role... do you?

No, but I can say that Tum coming up with her own ideas is a refreshing change that makes me feel better about her. I would have felt better about her with very little care as to what original idea she came up with, simply because it proved she was actually thinking.

While we're on the subject– Lottie, that is a horribly confusing way to set out your analysis. I think I know why you did it that way, but honestly, I'm not surprised so many people gave up in despair.:rolleyes:

Sorry...it made sense in my head, but looking back over it, I can really see why it wasn't a good idea.

That was an illogical plan that came to me as I was typing. It wasn't a ploy. It would've been a ploy if I pushed for it. In the end I negate it. With what u pointed out I would've negate it after that too. I don't want to lynch innocents.

I am beginning to wonder about Rikae's vote. I know I made a comment about it, but the first sentence was all said in fun...nothing was meant by it. My second line was about the fact that I wasn't sure who guilty at the time. Even then I didn't deem it appropriate to throw away my vote. I would take a look at her, but I have to be at work. If no one else does before I get back then I will.

Her "I don't want to lynch innocents" sounds too much like trying to insist she's innocent. Her flip on Rikae is odd, too - especially coming right after Zil commented on her earlier position.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading.

[wilwarin538]

About the Cupcake's plan. I think not. I'm strongly against gifted reveals, except when the Seer has a wolf or it's at a crucial part of the game where known innocents can give us the win. Day 3? No. At this point, I just hope the Seers can figure out for themselves whether they are false or not. ONLY situation I'd be good with Hestia revealing is if she realises she's false, then she could come out with being false and say one of two things: "I picked Boro, therefore the other Seer is real" or "I picked someone else whom I shall not name, and therefore they are false". That way the other one can stay hidden either way. Even then though, I'd still kind of frown upon it.

But right now? It seems unlikely that Hestia knows whether she's legit or not, so everyone should keep their mouth shut. In a game like this where there are already a bunch of people who know other's identities (Seer, Lovers, Shirriffs, Hunter-Hunter/Guardian, those Protectors, Hestia knows the Seer, and possible extra dreams if a Lover dies), if we start getting a bunch of reveals than that's just too much role knowledge going on, and it could start unbalancing the game.


So I knew Glirdan had to have plans up his sleeves; this game has been far too simple so far. I combed through the narrations carefully, looking for clues, but there were none to be found on a special game event or secret code.

Then I started looking at his admin thread posts. Still nothing. I was becoming disheartened but I knew that if I looked hard enough I could find his plan.

And found it I did.

Now the only thing we have to figure out is what the Night loosed upon us. Half an hour clearly stands for something, but I can't decide what. Perhaps it was a play on words for "half of our" and it's meant to signify another evil lover's activation? "Hell hath no fury" and all of that? Who could this be?!?! :eek:

This whole thing just cracked me up. Cause I started reading and got all excited that my brilliant bestie still had something sneaky going on, and that it would be awesome. And then, it was just a spelling mistaking. Hehe, *hearts cupcake*.

So I get what is so strange about Tum, and the whole being excited Eonwe was innocent since it made her look better? Really weird. I don't get why Lottie seems so adament on her though, like almost overly suspicious.

I'm also not feeling great about Nog, but it seems kind of low to lynch him if he won't be around toDay.

Maybe I'll go make a list or something...

x'ed with Shasta

[Inziladun]

A variant on Sally's Hestia-plan that might work better and be less wasteful of innocent lives.....we could wait until either Seer actually dreams of something that confirms that they are true or false, and they could then tell us. If it is Hestia, s/he would be able to confirm if the other Seer is true or false, without naming them. If the other Seer, Hestia would then know if s/he were true or false. Then the protection racket with the Ranger/Hunter-Guardian could kick in...does that sound better?

The Hestia matter is a vexing one. I can see the attraction of Sally's plan, but others have noted some variables that cause problems.
Lalaith's idea does sound better, but carries the risk of both Seers being vulnerable to wolves until one of them gets a dream they can confirm is valid.

In other news, I thought it strange how tum was seemingly so fixated on Nog the first Day. Since he started getting suspected (and I commented on her repeatedly "agreeing" with him), she's dropped that altogether and even voted for him last Night. It rather reminds me of the way she said Mac was the most suspicious and then dropped that, only in reverse.

[A Little Green]

Eurgh. I just realised it's getting late again and I feel very clueless. I'd love to look at Shasta but I don't think I have the time. So - I'm kind of in trouble. About who to lynch, I mean. I don't think I'll make a full list, but just quickly:

I'm disinclined to believe the wolves are among the following nine:
Lottie
Nerwen
Foley
Lalaith
Phantom
and, a bit more arguably,
Wilwa
Kath
Mira
Sally
(Though given my usual accuracy in things like this, I bet one of them is a wolf anyway. :rolleyes: )

Which would leave four (or arguably three) wolves among the following seven:
Zil
Nienna
autume
Rikae
Shasta
Mac
Nog

Now obviously I will not vote for any of the first list. Of the second then. I could go for someone I have no idea about and who could just as well be a wolf ie. Zil, Nienna, Rikae or Shasta. (Not too keen on that since I have no arguments whatsoever against any of them - just not for them, either.) Or I could do the easy thing and vote for autume, who has done a lot of fishy stuff - but I'm not very keen on that either since pretty much all of that could be explained by her simply not getting the hang of the game quite yet. Or I could vote for one of the confusing two that I have arguments both for and against, ie. Nog or Mac. (And, surprise surprise, I'm not keen on that - especially since neither has really been around toDay.)


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil

[Macalaure]

I'm getting uneasy about Wilwa, but I can't put my finger on why. I need to take a closer look at what she said when I get to it. Same with Inzil. And Nienna.

Seems like Sally's plan won't make the cut. Phew. ;)
Also, I doubt a wolf (other than a very bold one) would bring forth such a plan, so Sally is most likely innocent or a non-furry lover.

Now that we're three days into the game I imagine I'll normalize a bit (as far as suspecting people)

*is waiting for that to happen*

Not sure what to think about all that stuff around Autume. Have to make up my mind again. I just hope I won't have to go "who wants to vote for someone else than this poor kid?" three Days in a row...

So, yeah, I've got some work cut out for me, I guess.

[the phantom]

Reading and thinking...

Kath and Nienna are lying low (not neccessarily intentionally, but they are). I'd say there's a pelt between the two of them, due largely to the fact that I'm not seeing fur in many other places.

Inzil and Sally have not been as quiet as far as posting goes, but they've made about the same level of impression on me (before just recently). I'm not a fan of Sally's plan, and wonder if she simply wanted to know where the Seer was and wanted the Rangers to be occupied protecting the Seer so that she'd be free to kill who she wished at night. Possible Wolf there.

Nog has been different because he's both busy and fabricating. Most likely furry.

Lalaith is... Lalaith. Someone said earlier she's either innocent or a very smooth WW. Well- yeah. I've been a WW with her before. She's very smooth. I wouldn't try her first, but at the end as a desperate shot, I'd try her.

Of those that I did not name, it's probable there's a Wolf there, very possibly two, but either I don't suspect them at all or I have a reason to believe they may have a particular role and thus I don't feel comfortable putting them up for lynching at this time.

(edit: Oh, be quiet Mac, I'm busy with other stuff at the same time here. You are so needy.)

[Nienna]

Rikae - 2.5 hours of analysis later.

29 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634805&postcount=29) – Mostly banter, doesn’t think much of Boro’s Zeus comment
32 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634808&postcount=32) – Jokes at being a wolf
69 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634856&postcount=69) – First post of content, explains to Foley that we don’t always need to be serious to be useful, mentions how another role will be revealed when Poseidon comes back
76 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634864&postcount=76) – explanation and call for Mod-god interference about lovers and their goals
80 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634868&postcount=80) – She mentions that the false seer can lead the village astray with false information and that that is worse than baddies being able to narrow down their potential-seer list
82 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634870&postcount=82) – Mentions lovers or anyone trying to save wolves can happen especially in a game like this. Also reiterates how moot the point about Romeo-Juliet lovers is concerning what happens when a partner dies
83 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634871&postcount=83) – Both seers are probably leaving trails
88 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634877&postcount=88) – Admits that she may misread seer/false seer hints
90 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634880&postcount=90) – Nerwen’s “Hades” comment could be leaving hints at Persephone but could just as easily be something else
100 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634897&postcount=100) – Converses with Phantom about his lovers talk, mentions how his way can create a suspect where there may actually be no grounds as people’s playing styles vary so much
104 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634902&postcount=104) – Mentions how there isn’t generally any reason for the false seer to keep quiet though maybe there is in some circumstances
108 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634906&postcount=108) – Thinks Nog’s idea about Seers revealing is interesting but that if there is a false reveal it may tie up a ranger
111 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634911&postcount=111) – Says it’s up to individuals to play as they want to. The wolves also get the same information that the village gets and there is no reason to suppose they will miss seer-hints
121 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634923&postcount=121) – Didn’t think that Nerwen was trying to get Persephone to pick her and that maybe Mac was trying to confuse Persephone into picking her
128 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634931&postcount=128) – Mentions that joking banter may contain hints too Interesting with her own joking banter which could be wolvish – see later as well
133 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634938&postcount=133) – Mentions that Steve joking about Dionysus could just be him having too much to drink
137 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634942&postcount=137) – Is most suspicious of those seeing hints everywhere than those supposedly leaving hints
142 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634947&postcount=142) – Didn’t know Steve’s age and thinks we can just lynch the cursed after they are turned
145 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634950&postcount=145) – If Steve is the cursed then he helped the village without knowing it because the wolves wouldn’t pick him now anyway
158 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634965&postcount=158) – On Boro’s Zeus-hints: Phantom started it, and Lal kept it going – wonders about Phantom’s intentions in that were
179 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634988&postcount=179) – “allied to Zeus” could mean wolf’s lover but she doesn’t think that’s what Boro meant
194 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635004&postcount=194) – Doesn’t think that Mac is a lover just because he was suspicious of Boro being a lover
198 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635008&postcount=198) – Thinks because the narration will say when the cursed is turned there is no reason to lynch Steve now. Doesn’t want to vote BG because she hasn’t really shown she’s a wolf but she may vote for her because of not participating. Other suspects include Nerwen (though she thinks her suspicion might be based on IC banter and nothing else), Phantom but he hasn’t explained himself and it would be a throwaway, and Wilwa for trying to stir up suspicion about Boro but still keeping her hands clean (also thinks that would be a throwaway)
213 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635027&postcount=213) – Admits it must be frustrating for BG but says she has to participate more or why bother. Won’t vote BG (too harsh) or Steve (hasn’t had time to explain himself). Votes Phantom because it should happen more on Day Ones. This doesn’t actually bother me at all… she suspected Phantom a little bit and it seems like as reasonable for a Day One vote as any other
223 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635037&postcount=223) – Says she always defends Mac even when they aren’t on the same side

Day 2

334 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635226&postcount=334) – Thinks Boro must have coupled his Seer-hints with correct suspicion (accidental or not) as he was killed. Boro also could have coupled Seer and Hunter hints so maybe he didn’t point to a baddie at all and the wolves called his bluff… or he could be the false seer
336 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635228&postcount=336) – Mentions it’s weird that Nerwen argued her and Mac weren’t wolf-on-wolf when that’s not even what Nog said
345 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635244&postcount=345) – Torn about Mac’s wording about “frustrating to be alone”… chalks it up to second language
350 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635250&postcount=350) – Says she knows what Phantom is up to and is more concerned about Nerwen. Doesn’t like people picking on her “sweetie” so much, calls him sweetie again in an edit to the post interesting use of pet names which as I’ve mentioned I don’t believe I’ve seen before…maybe her being playful, maybe not
352 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635252&postcount=352) – Now wondering where all the Steve-is-not-the-cursed stuff is coming from, leaning toward Phantom being Zeus and that being what Boro dreamed
354 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635254&postcount=354) – Still thinks Phantom is Zeus but not that he should be lynched, it’s debatable anyway
378 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635287&postcount=378) – After re-reading Mac’s “frustrating” comment she is pretty sure it is because of English being his second language
412 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635331&postcount=412) – Explains that Nerwen was probably talking about Hades the place not the person
467 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635403&postcount=467) – Wants to look at the Inzil/Tum stuff and Tum’s voting of BG after finding her innocent
474 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635412&postcount=474) – Doesn’t buy Tum being a wolf, doesn’t buy Mac being a wolf, doesn’t buy Steve being a wolf. Votes herself saying that she is the “wolviest wolf that ever howled at the moon” This is the second time she joked at being a wolf and on Day Two when voting matters a little more
485 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635426&postcount=485) – More fake (?) lover banter with Mac
526 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635469&postcount=526) – Doesn’t like the last minute scrambling for a random lynch candidate
529 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635472&postcount=529) – Thinks Mac is behind the lynch-someone-not-Steve business so now she wonders if maybe it would be wise to lynch him

Day 3

593 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635614&postcount=593) – Has some problems with Lottie’s Tum-analysis, doesn’t think Sally’s Hestia plan is best, she doesn’t approve of bandwagons
602 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635627&postcount=602) – Doesn’t want to get lynched with chat-speak
608 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635633&postcount=608) – Sadly doesn’t have any assassination power

Conclusions: Generally she has been very helpful and even reprimanding to the village where it is needed. She's been logical and consistent. The only thing that worries me a tiny bit is her joking about being a wolf. I don’t think she is a wolf but it is interesting. She is also very flippant about her own lynching which leads me to think that maybe she doesn’t have one of the more important roles... maybe a lover (with all the lover banter) which could mean she can have assassination powers later.

[Nienna]

Reading and thinking...

Kath and Nienna are lying low (not neccessarily intentionally, but they are). I'd say there's a pelt between the two of them, due largely to the fact that I'm not seeing fur in many other places.


Phantom, your logic fails me. You think that Kath or I is a wolf just because you can't see fur elsewhere? That's lovely. :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Someone's got to be a WW, Nienna. If it's not you, then you'll have to give me a chance to get more comfortable with you before I'm going to start feeling that (talk more, argue, etc). Come on now- you know how the whole submarine thing works. If I'm not mistaking it was after WW III that I swore that if I could help it I was not going to ever again lose a game due to allowing WWs to slip by via being extra quiet. If I'm going to be beaten I prefer it to be out loud and straight up. In other words, not the Frodo method. :p

[A Little Green]

I want to go to sleep, but I also want to vote reasonably. Unfortunately, it's kind of hard to fit those two together as I'm really really clueless right now. Could someone please do something blatantly wolvish? Like, now? :Merisu:

[Nienna]

Someone's got to be a WW, Nienna. If it's not you, then you'll have to give me a chance to get more comfortable with you before I'm going to start feeling that (talk more, argue, etc). Come on now- you know how the whole submarine thing works. If I'm not mistaking it was after WW III that I swore that if I could help it I was not going to ever again lose a game due to allowing WWs to slip by via being extra quiet. If I'm going to be beaten I prefer it to be out loud and straight up. In other words, not the Frodo method. :p

I understand that submarines are bad. I apologize for being one thus far. I have time now and so here I am talking. I'm sure arguing will come up as well. :D

[Inziladun]

I'm not a fan of Sally's plan, and wonder if she simply wanted to know where the Seer was and wanted the Rangers to be occupied protecting the Seer so that she'd be free to kill who she wished at night. Possible Wolf there.

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Nog has been different because he's both busy and fabricating. Most likely furry.

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.

Lalaith is... Lalaith. Someone said earlier she's either innocent or a very smooth WW. Well- yeah. I've been a WW with her before. She's very smooth. I wouldn't try her first, but at the end as a desperate shot, I'd try her.

I know she can be a highly effective wolf who doesn't tend to attract suspicion, but I'm not getting much in the way of furry vibes from her at the moment.

x/d with Greenie and Nienna

[wilwarin538]

So....I took a nap. That's why it took me so long to come back. *is exhausted* But here's the list I said I would make:


I'm ok with the following people

Lalaith
Nerwen
Rikae
Mac
Sallycakes
Greenie

Meh, neutral

Kath: I liked her post yesterday cause I appreciated her effort, but I would like more from her before I form a realy oppinion
Nienna: just not enough to go on from what I can see, still don't get why people wanted to lynch her, unless I missed something
Inzil: just hasn't stood out for me
Mira: still not too much from her
Phantom
Folwren

I'm uneasy about

Tum: because of some of the things she's been saying it just seems very odd, but I'm not going to push it as much as some people cause this just seems like it could turn into a repeat of yesterDay and the Day before
Lottie: only because of how much effort she's putting into going after Tum, besides that I don't feel strongly about her either way
Shasta: purely a gut thing I'll admit, I'll need to look at his posts more
Nog


So I'm not overly suspicious about anyone but I'd be comfortable voting for anyone in my last category, and could possibly be persuaded to vote for some of the ones in the middle one. Hopefully tonight when I need to decide I'll have narrowed it down more.

x'ed with a couple

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sorry for not posting earlier. I'm dealing with a lot of crap at the moment.

In any case, I agree with those who say Lottie's mega-post is one that was virtually unreadable. Summaries, please. :p

Re - Nog and the question he asked of me yesterday: when I said that your case on Nerwen was double-, triple-, and quadruple-bluffing, I meant that it relied on 'would a wolf have done this, or would a wolf not have done this knowing we'd think they did, or...?' That's basically all it is, and I don't see anything else supporting it.

Re - Sally's plan: the main point against it is the revenge-kills, as Rikae pointed out. For that reason alone I'd be against it.

[A Little Green]

I'm quite all right with lynching Nog toDay. Or Tum. Still.I might consider Nog after all, though he's absent which makes me feel kind of bad about it. And I'm not all that convinced about his furriness - he has certainly done stuff that points to that direction, but he has also done stuff that points to the exact opposite. So I don't know.

As for autume - I still think the numerous wolvish parts of her behaviour might be due to some misunderstanding concerning the nature of the game. She has made it clear, many times in different situations, that her main goal is to not look wolvish (as opposed to finding wolves). I can sort of understand that, I remember subconsciously thinking that way myself as a new player (which might be partly due to the fact that I played my two first games as a wolf and the habit kind of stuck, though). Now I don't know autume's WW history at all, I've never played with her, so I can't compare the two cases. But the thing is, I'm not convinced a furry autume would be so open about this. But then again, all the inconsistencies in her behaviour (like, about Mac and Nog for example, I think Inzil has covered these pretty effectively) would point more to the furry side... Heck if I know, now I just caused myself a headache. :p Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.


EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa and Shasta (to the latter: *hug*)

[wilwarin538]

Clearly I shouldn't get that understanding about her motives, because if I only apply cold logic I'm leaning towards thinking she's a wolf. But I also have this nagging feeling that she'll be toDay's easy bandwagon everyone can jump on without racking their brains too much.

This very clearly sums up how I feel about her. I get why she looks so bad, but it could so easily become a repeat of BG and Eonwe.

I wonder whether Sallywolf would have been so bold, though. She had to have known it probably wouldn't be that warmly received, and subjected to some scrutiny.

Even though you could potentially say that she knew we'd react that way and said it all to make herself look innocent, I do agree, I think it makes her look rather good.

Could someone please do something blatantly wolvish? Like, now?

*growls like the Wereduckling*

[Macalaure]

A list to sort my thoughts before I go analyzin'.

Pretty confident is innocent
Greenie (While my wolf-spotting is shaky, my innocent-spotting is usually good, which is why I really don't like to only have one person in here.)

Probably innocent, but there's that nagging feeling
Lalaith (As phantom said, smooth. I remember Lalaith-wolf to be more nervous. Really not worried at the moment.)
Rikae (The mistress of the nagging feeling.)
Nog (He's wrong with such persistence that I doubt he's evil. As a wolf, once you realize that your approach is irritating everyone, you alter your ways.)
phantom (My problem is, that I've never played against a phantom wolf. I don't see anything suspicious, but I'm not sure what to look for.)
Sally (Seer plan too risky for a wolf. Possible lover, though.)

Not really sure where to put
Loslote (While I must've missed what tp saw yesterDay, her defense did look innocent.)
Nerwen (I don't see anything suspicious, but every time I put Nerwen higher than this, I regret it.)
Autume (Not sure what the stuff around her is about, but I'll trust people that there's something. I'll see for myself eventually.)

Varying degrees of submarinity
Kath (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Mira (Really quiet. Can't tell anything.)
Nienna (Picking up some pace at last. Will be interesting to see.)
Folwren (Innocent-looking, but there's so to go at that she could easily be a quiet wolf.)
Shasta (He could go in the category above, too. Really uncertain here.)

Uneasiness that has to be checked out
Wilwa (Can't tell what it is, but I'll find out.)
Inzil (same)

I was hoping that I forgot a suspicious one somewhere. This list contains too many question marks for Day3.

[satansaloser2005]

My top suspects are as follows....


Nog: He's been too twitchy and weird (without quoting any posts because there's so many to choose from) and generally not innocent Nog-ish.

Tum: Her "innocent lynches are bad, but I like them" attitude, among other things, makes me think she's a floundering wolf cub or possibly an evil lover. (Actually I really like that theory. I hope to look at it more closely after dinner.)

Foley: I'll have to find the post again, but at some point she tells us not to lynch phantom because she thinks he's possibly a good gifted. I don't see why a goodie would do that, unless Phantom was under extreme pressure to be lynched (which he wasn't at the time). Other than that standing out, though, I'm unsure of her, so I'll try to look at her later tonight as well.

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches* I should not have these kind of thoughts as I'm leaving. It's just not fair. *harrumphs*


Leaving for said dinner now, so I'll be back when I can and will try to post more.

[A Little Green]

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover? *twitches*I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

[satansaloser2005]

I doubt that. It would be really really bold for a lover to so persistently push for the lynch of her partner. Needlessly bold, I'd say, for I see no particular gain. Sure, some suspicion every now and then is not a bad tactic at all, but to take it to such a level would be foolish.

Oh. My. Goodness. I did not mean what I said there. *headdesks* I'd been thinking earlier that Tum could be an evil lover, but putting her with Lottie makes no sense. Please excuse my complete lapse of brain cells. :o

I'll decide what I actually meant when I return, hopefully soon. :)

[Rikae]

Ok, now Mac is making me uneasy. All that stuff in the post he just made, plus similar stuff in an earlier post toDay (if anyone doesn't know what I mean, just read his post again) can't possibly be well intentioned or sincere. If what it suggests were true, there wouldn't be a good reason for him to do it; it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal. Very, very fishy.

EDIT: X'd with everyone since Mac.

[Macalaure]

it seems instead like an attempt to tie up the rangers or prepare for a false reveal.Not sure what you're seeing, but rest assured that there are no false reveals intended. In fact, there are no reveals intended at all anytime soon, so I'm really kind of puzzled here. Not that there would be anything to reveal anyway. Dare to be plainer?

[the phantom]

I still don't get why people (Mac, Wilwa, Inzil, maybe others) think Sally's plan makes her look innocent. Let me ask you- what's the NUMBER ONE thing on the minds of the WWs after last night? The pair of Rangers in the village.

So I can guarantee you that the WWs, the moment they started this day, were thinking of ways to avoid a repeat of last night. The best way to do that? Assign the Rangers to protect a particular person. It's so Wolfish.

And I don't like her list either. And I don't like the fact that her plan involves waiting a day to lynch Nog. A possible theory- coming into the day he may have been written off by his partners perhaps as a lost cause? But they figure if they can hold onto him for one extra day and have a wrong lynch today then it won't be so bad to throw him under the bus? I just don't like it at all. The whole thing smells fishy.

[A Little Green]

*growls like the Wereduckling*Aww! But I can't push for the lynch of anyone half so cute!

Whoa. It's late, and I have a relatively early start tomorrow - in other words, I need to vote and be off to bed. That is very sad since I fear whatever I decide turns out to be the exact wrong thing to do. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to live with that. It's between Mac, Nog and autume for me toDay I think, and of those two I think I'll go for

++ Nogrod

For a couple of reasons.
1) He has acted unreasonably in ways that point to furriness.
2) His death would shed light on other people's roles (I'm thinking Mac, Lottie, Sally, and possibly Nerwen and pantom too).
3) My logic is suspicious of Mac and autume while my gut isn't, with Nog both are suspicious of him albeit to a slightly lesser extent. Still, he's my best bet toDay.

Good night!

[Lalaith]

This game is a right old bugger. You look at players and posts, you spot something that might be patterns and alliances, and then you think, but there are so many innocent alliances too, it might not be a sign of evil. You remember how easy it is to mistake a gifted for a wolf, and then remember that every blessed person is a gifted. Oh lawks.

Ok, list time again.
Phantom – full of beans today, and getting *very* cocky. Trusts Mac. Believes Lottie is innocent. His suspect list is interesting but I don’t get what he says about why he's putting Kath at the top of it...I agree she can be a lethal quiet wolf but if that’s what he means he should say so.

Nog I’ve already harped on about my concerns here. I would probably vote for him on the strength of that comment of his, (given my lack of solid suspects) were it not for the fact he is not here to explain himself and it seems unsporting.

Tum – I’ve already given my opinion on her earlier. My reservations about voting for her are similar to those voiced by Greenie and Wilwa.

Loslote – that great long analysis. It seems to be trying to prove that Tum agrees with what everybody else says...and the impression it gives me is that it could be the kind of analysis a wolf might do on someone the pack had decided might make a good lynch for the Day... something non-committal that others could pick over...she is another possible vote for me today but that in itself annoys me because I think it so unlikely that she and Nogrod are *both* wolves.

Nerwen is out to get Nogrod today. Well fair enough, there’s enough rope to hang him, but I’m surprised she hasn’t picked up on my point which does look quite bad for him.

Mac – my problem with him remains his callous attitude to Nerwen yesterday. Too callous for an innocent, arguably....but Today he has once more been generally sensible and incisive.

Sally – I think that despite flaws her Hestia plan was inspired from a genuine desire to help; not the sort of thing a wolf would come up with I think. I do see Phantom's point about tying up the Rangers but still, if you were a wolf, why would you encourage the survival of a Seer?

Greenie – again trying to be fair and even-handed. Her suspicions and also her reservations about Tum are more or less the same as mine.

Wilwa – not as incisive or detailed as Greenie as yet today but the same sense of trying to play fair which looks good in my book.

Nienna – as so many have said, giving an impression of ‘lying low’. However, she does do a thorough analysis of Rikae and finds her consistent and logical. I personally look at Rikae and see chutzpah and erratic brilliance, but ok, if you say so...

Rikae – as I said yesterday, I never can see past the chutzpah with her so I’ll leave that to others.

Zil – still feels ok - has opinions, not afraid to express them, and what he is saying seems to make sense to me.

Shasta – very brief, not enough to go on.

Not posted yet today? (correct me if I’m wrong)
Kath, Mira, Folwren. (Btw - Where IS Kath? I’m on the same time zone as her and it’s bedtime...tsk...dirty stop-out...)
Have I left anyone out? I need to decide, as I need to go to bed soon...

[the phantom]

but I don’t get what he says about why he's putting Kath at the top of it
She's not "at the top" of my list, but rather she happens to be listed first. I wasn't meaning to imply order of suspicion. Sorry for being unclear.

[Lalaith]

No worries. Btw my list is not meant to be read in order of suspicion either, it started off as an "order of posting" list and then went off on a tangent.

[autume98]

I am here now and should be here until DL.

[Macalaure]

my problem with him remains his callous attitude to Nerwen yesterday.

Callous? :eek: I definitely did not mean to act that way. I'm not sure what you mean, in fact, and it would be great if you would specifiy what exactly in my behavior was callous. If I appeared that way, I do sincerely apologise. :(

[Nienna]

Zil:

31 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634807&postcount=31) – Wonders why Boro singled out Phantom, teases that Rikae is a wolf for singling out possible gifteds
36 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634813&postcount=36) – No one should be blindly followed
64 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634850&postcount=64) – Mentions how the lovers are unpredictable, calls Nog “mate” Interesting thing there… could be just “friend” but if either of them turns out a wolf I’d be seriously considering the other … word choice is very important
66 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634853&postcount=66) – More lover stuff
93 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634887&postcount=93) – Thinks the false seer – once they know they are false – needs to come clean and let us know so that we aren’t following false hints
131 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634934&postcount=131) – Wants to know what Steve has to say about the Dionysus thing
134 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634939&postcount=134) – Mentions Steve’s age and more about the cursed role being revealed
152 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634959&postcount=152) – More about the cursed not being good once they are turned
172 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634981&postcount=172) – Who stands out: Boro – confusing; Mac – wants to lynch just for being Mac but not today; Steve – Dionysus thing but doesn’t see him as a threat; BG – popping in and out
174 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634983&postcount=174) – Is hesitant to vote Mac even though he thinks that Mac’s reasoning was reaching (re: Boro and Zeus)
185 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634994&postcount=185) – Votes BG for poking her head in and saying nothing except what others have said

Day 2
337 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635229&postcount=337) – Looks at some of Boro’s posts, mentions how his sudden vote for Steve is jarring, mentions that Lottie has been suspicious of Tum and wants to have another look at her
342 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635237&postcount=342)– Analysis of Tum – finds her very suspicious especially going back and forth between suspects and then voting for someone who she thought was innocent. Reading what he wrote and quoted, Tum did say she would vote BG to try and save Steve which seems to be what happened… yes after checking Tum voted when Steve was only behind in votes by one and there had been a few recent ones so she could have been voting to save him
395 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635308&postcount=395) – Wonders why I find him suspicious while I voted for someone who I admitted was innocent I shall respond to this now if you’d like… I didn’t say you were suspicious I just said your vote doesn’t look fabulous because of it’s timing, and I voted for someone I thought was detrimental … which doesn’t have to mean wolf
457 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635387&postcount=457) – Of the people who have the spotlight: Rikae – surprisingly OK with; Mac – doesn’t trust but won’t be voting; Phantom – doesn’t seem evil but not trustworthy; Nerwen – confusion; Nog – think’s Nog is being too single-minded to be innocent; Tum – doesn’t like her flip-floping with Steve
462 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635397&postcount=462) – Doesn’t like Tum’s defenses
471 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635409&postcount=471) – Defends his vote for BG
473 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635411&postcount=473) – Votes Steve to hopefully shed light on his real suspects Not my favorite vote… he votes for Steve even though he has other top suspects

Day 3
594 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635615&postcount=594) – Happy no wolf-kill, jokes about Rikae being a wolf, gives more points against Tum – thinks looks like a ploy to get innocents lynched. Thinks Nerwen and Lal’s points against Nog have validity
618 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635644&postcount=618) – Can see the attraction to Sally’s plan but sees the flaws too, more points against Tum – fixating on players and then dropping them
627 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635655&postcount=627) – Fine with lynching Nog or Tum today, not getting furry vibes from Lal

Conclusions:
I don't know if I would say that he's furry. He had some disconcerting votes and he seems to be really stuck on Tum and Nog. On the whole he's been consistent at least. I don't trust him but that doesn't mean he's a wolf either.

[Rikae]

Not sure what you're seeing, but rest assured that there are no false reveals intended. In fact, there are no reveals intended at all anytime soon, so I'm really kind of puzzled here. Not that there would be anything to reveal anyway. Dare to be plainer?

All the talk of checking people and finding out about people, of course. You don't expect me to believe your over-the-top excessive seer hints weren't intentional at all, do you?

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

EDIT: X'd with Nienna

[the phantom]

On my way out the door. I'll be back for the final 2-3 hours.

[Macalaure]

I meant that I was going to analyse them.

[autume98]

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

So where do you stand on wanting me to get lynched and why?

[satansaloser2005]

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

THIS.

Also, I'm back, but spending time with my auntie.

[satansaloser2005]

So where do you stand on wanting me to get lynched and why?

Oooo I can answer that!

I want to lynch you. Why? Because I think you're evil.

[Lalaith]

Callous? I definitely did not mean to act that way. I'm not sure what you mean, in fact, and it would be great if you would specifiy what exactly in my behavior was callous. If I appeared that way, I do sincerely apologise.

Sorry I actually meant Nienna, when you called her "an easy victim."

Anyway bedtime and thus voting time. It crossed my mind - is there a chance Nogrod and Tum could be wolves together? I haven't got time to go back through the whole thread to check now. And I still have reservations about voting for either of them which I have already voiced.
That leaves me with Loslote as the only one I have any kind of case against. I do see there is an apparent illogicality of suspecting Nogrod and then voting for the same person as he does - but what I do think either Nogrod OR Loslote is most likely a wolf.
++ Loslote

Hmmm...If we don't get a wolf today, and if I am spared, I think I might change tack toMorrow and start shooting randomly at submarines.

[satansaloser2005]

Lal, dear, you need to put the two plusses in front (or Glirdan might eat you). Just sayin'. :)

[Rikae]

So where do you stand on wanting me to get lynched and why?

Well, that's kind of a strange question, autume, but here goes: you've done a lot of things that look foolish for a wolf and even more so for an innocent; you have openly talked about wanting to make yourself look innocent and being glad of an innocent's death, you've given a general impression of following wherever you think the trend may be headed (your sudden "suspicion" of me seemed to be a direct response to Inzil's questioning of you - looked like a very blatant attempt to win him over) and Mac, Wilwa, and Lalaith, none of whom are on my "most innocent" list, have all made what I consider very illogical arguments against lynching you. Sally, who seems to know you pretty well, vouches for the fact that you're not actually as clueless as an innocent acting as you have would probably be. You also have been discussed enough to make your role a source of useful leads. Plus, you used chatspeak.

On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 as "would sacrifice myself to prevent them being lynched" and 10 as "will sacrifice myself to take them down", I'd put you at about a 6.5. In other words, not opposed to lynching you, but would prefer to lynch someone more suspicious, if such a person there be. There are other people on my radar right now, too.

[Rikae]

Maybe even a 7.

[autume98]

Let me try this again. Am I happy that an innocent is dead. No. I just felt that his innocence proved the reason I voted for BG. Which just happens to be why people were going after me yesterDay.

tum, it would be fair enough to argue the next Day, after Eonwe was dead, that his innocence made you look better.

It's quite another to say this about a still-living lynch-candidate:

Now if Eonwe turns out to be a wolf then I know that will look REALLY bad. So I'm really hoping that Eonwe is someone good.

Do you really still not understand the difference?

Basically, you never hope that you're right about someone's innocence and that they'll be lynched. The game doesn't work like that. Unless you're evil.

Yes, but then, how often do baddies straight-out say, "Ooo, I do hope we lynch an innocent toDay"? They think it, of course, but they tend to keep that to themselves, rather.

I mean, I'm not saying what she said doesn't sound bad, but it's also just... weird.

Is it possible that tum is an innocent who still hasn't quite grasped the idea that WW is a team-game, and thinks it's about winning by herself? Some newbies do see it that way... but then I know she's played several games before this.:confused:



I really think that you are looking into the wording too much. I never meant anything bad out of it. It's like when you're getting blamed for something that you didn't do, and then it comes to light later on that you were right. It was a bad thing for me to do. What I did was a lapse in judgment. I'll try not to do this in the future.

I know that this is a team-game, and I DO want to get the wolves.

Edit: x-ed everyone since my last post

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

I've been thinking about sally's idea of flushing Hestia out. While originally I rejected it, after giving it some serious consideration I think it would be best to wait to do anything to that effect until if/when the village starts to flounder. As of now we're in decent shape, despite not having nabbed any furry ones yet. If things start getting desperate though, I'm all for it. Well, not necessarily all for it. As for it as one can be considering the circumstances.


Also, in a desperate attempt to not fall back asleep and have more weird dreams, I am going to go look at phantom

*stalks to Facebook*

...

Okay, now I'm going to go analyze his posts. :p

[Loslote]

I really think that you are looking into the wording too much. I never meant anything bad out of it. It's like when you're getting blamed for something that you didn't do, and then it comes to light later on that you were right. It was a bad thing for me to do. What I did was a lapse in judgment. I'll try not to do this in the future.

I know that this is a team-game, and I DO want to get the wolves.

Edit: x-ed everyone since my last post

By wording, do you mean the post itself? Because I can't think of any other way to interpert that post than a suspicious one. You say that you're being blamed for something you didn't do, but then say that it was bad anyway. Wolves are the ones who worry about how they come across to other people, Tum. Not innocents. And you've made it very clear that you care over much about how you come across.

EDIT: xed with Keepandir of Dol Mira

[Nienna]

List:

Very Suspicious:
Tum

Sort of Suspicious
Zil - for reasons mentioned in my analysis post
Lalaith - her most recent vote seems a little off... maybe it's because I haven't seen much to suspect Lottie
Phantom - something about him today has been rubbing me the wrong way... maybe it's his assault on Sally which I think is very unfounded or his strong desire to see me lynched...

Hesitant about: I need to look into these players more... they are coming under heavy suspicion and I want to check it out myself
Mac
Nog
Nerwen

Need more from:
Kath
Mira
Folwren
Shasta

feeling ok:
Wilwa
Lottie
Greenie
Rikae

Pretty sure as innocent:
Sally

Edit: Crossed since Mira

[autume98]

Oooo I can answer that!

I want to lynch you. Why? Because I think you're evil.

Reason?

...you've given a general impression of following wherever you think the trend may be headed (your sudden "suspicion" of me seemed to be a direct response to Inzil's questioning of you...Plus, you used chatspeak.



So I had to go back to see what you were talking about. And found this:


That was an illogical plan that came to me as I was typing. It wasn't a ploy. It would've been a ploy if I pushed for it. In the end I negate it. With what you pointed out I would've negate it after that too. I don't want to lynch innocents.

I am beginning to wonder about Rikae's vote. I know I made a comment about it, but the first sentence was all said in fun...nothing was meant by it. My second line was about the fact that I wasn't sure who guilty at the time. Even then I didn't deem it appropriate to throw away my vote. I would take a look at her, but I have to be at work. If no one else does before I get back then I will.

The first paragraph is in direct response to what Inzil said. The second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with what Inzil said. I should've separated it out a little bit better. I can see where you get that it's a direct response to what Inzil said. However I'm not sure how you get that I was following the trend with your example since no where in his post did he say you were suspicious.

Edit: x-ed with everyone since my last post

[autume98]

By wording, do you mean the post itself? Because I can't think of any other way to interpert that post than a suspicious one. You say that you're being blamed for something you didn't do, but then say that it was bad anyway. Wolves are the ones who worry about how they come across to other people, Tum. Not innocents. And you've made it very clear that you care over much about how you come across.


The only reason I care is because I don't want another innocent to get lynched tonight. Not enough wolf blood has been shed this game. I can see where you are coming from though.

[autume98]

Plus, you used chatspeak.


I forgot to ask, what is chatspeak? :confused:

[Nienna]

*twiddles her thumbs*

Tum who are your suspects?

And chatspeak is like: lol, or instead of saying "are" or "you"... one says r u.

[Rikae]

The first paragraph is in direct response to what Inzil said. The second paragraph had absolutely nothing to do with what Inzil said. I should've separated it out a little bit better.

Yeah, if you had, it would have looked less suspicious. ;) Next time you're a wolf, you might want to remember that.

And you were going with the trend, in this case, in the sense that, as I recall, you were being questioned for praising my vote (which I don't really understand, since self-votes are so thoroughly cool :smokin:); plus Inzil jokingly suggested lynching me earlier, based on that same vote. So yes, I do see a connection; not a very logical one, but no less logical than a lot of your other behavior.

[Rikae]

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that. :D

[Nogrod]

Reading the few first posts and stalling majesticallly...

“Okay. I think it's likely that she's a wolf. In fact, I think it's probable. If you saw no points in my post, I don't know what to tell you. I wrote down what I saw, and made points for and (more often) against her innocence.”
Sorry, you just describe what she is saying, you’re giving up 0,5% your own… You just say: she said x did Y and didn't appreciate it... Really. Some real effort, please.

“I was going to vote for one of the people I'd thought rationally about, rather than a last-minute "hey, she exists - let's kill her" type bandwagon.”
Why didn’t you protest or let us know of that yesterday? Did you just come up with it? (Nicely done). Why didn't you say - if you were so sure - "hey guys, here's the case against Nogrod I have and you should believe it too after I presented it to you!" Let me tell you why you didn't... You didn't have it as it was all thin air; and anyway you would have tried to build it, it would have been plain false... It's hard to be a wolf who wishes to take the forefront. It actually takes more effort... So back to the boot camp Lottie, try even. I'd hate to die to someone saying "I don't like him" (as you said - nevertheless how you protest, but you said that. And that's the best argument you've made thus far) :rolleyes:

So sad that kind of arguments seem to work.

“Isn't this paragraph self-contradictory? By your own logic, Nog, the wolves had no reason to be active in the voting.”
No. Or yes. I mean they had no urge to save their friends aka. they could be relaxed – that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t drive the voting in the way they wished – like a host of you voting to let me live and thus making me look you guys more nicely. And it works, even if I try to fight against my urge to think positively of you who kept me alive… That is such a sham Nerwen I really am starting to suspect more again... "Needs to be" is a different thing from "wants to be". You can be when you don't have to... With no problem around the lynching (no mates in the fray) you can either drive for someone you'd like to see lynched - or someone whose lynch would benefit you - or defending one whom might benefit you... or whatever, maybe just toss the coin? And really, you're grasping at straws here - and wasting my time as well, as I see now.

I never specified who were the suspicious ones and who were the innocents - because I JUST DON'T FREAKIN' KNOW. You might, or why else do you require me that without giving the answers yourself?

As I said, anyone of you, but not all.


“And who else was even talking about him being the Cursed yesterDay? I don't say it was never mentioned in passing, but I thought the main question was whether he might be a wolf.” That’s what you say… Maybe it was not suitable for the wolves to talk about it? Maybe it was even bad for them to talk about it? Blah... You love to keep that interpretation of the reality, but why? I'm not answering that, you should.


So they're suspicious for throwing out different options and we're suspicious for not liking this?
“I hereby dub this type of reasoning "Nogrod's Fork".I do hereby dub this type of argument as the "Australian stab the sleeping"-argument. It’s closer to the truth as your dubbing – with better grounding - that being more or less in my case.

How does that sound? I did manage to get online… Sorry to ruin your plan. And really that's nasty. Are you, with your mate Lottie, that desperate of doing away with me? I'd think you'd have other problems as everyone can't be wolves - or do you just think I'm the easy target as I'm not around to talk for myself? You two really took your chances after you heard I was going to be away, didn't you? Hadn't you anything better to do? :)

Am I hitting the right targets? Does it hurt that much?

Nogrod, lots of your reasoning this morning seems sensible to me (result of a good night’s sleep?) but this I would query quite strenuously:
Quote:
remember, any wolves present in the end had no mates in trouble there, they were toying with innocents known to them to be innocents Actually , unless I have really misunderstood your point, it is not general knowledge that any of them were innocents except Eonwe. How do YOU know? It is a shame that you're not around to answer this...
Well I know because I know my role, and I said twice that I do not expect you to trust it – but after my death. Sorry if two times were not enough.

And there were no others than us three! (Beigei and Eonwë on D1 and Eonwë & me on D2). All innocents – I know that. You know that only up to me. Get used to it.


Oh my, once again, hey Nerwen, get real! English is not my first language, but you should not be allowed to put just anything into my mouth because of that! Really. I’m looking at the nearest object to throw at you right now.
“Well, maybe it's a language problem, again. But he does sound like he's saying it was a common consensus yesterDay that Steve was a likely Cursed, and it certainly wasn't.”
What? If you have complaints to how your mates perform during the Day when you can't advice them, keep it to them at Nights. Show me someone who knew Steve's role except Steve himself? You knew it? "He certainly wasn't" like you knew it yesterDay, or what are you trying to say? So just stop it then. It was an open thing and we all had our different thoughts about the probability of it, but you can't claim - but in hindsight - to have been 100% sure either way. And I never claimed it was either way, but I gave quite a long arguments why it could be one way or another.

Where were your arguments yesterDay? I mean no hindsight but your arguments before you knew afterwards how it was?

And this then...[Nogrod's Fork sure has a lot of tines, hasn't it?Now this sure gets out of the bounds of ridiculousness itself... Let me see how you put into one shortish post most of the people and why you suspect them! Just let me see you try it without breaking the rule you just laid on my post! And don't use more than twenty minutes into it.
(so do not suspect different people for different reasons there – and be definitive with all your suspicions)

– heh, be a wolf.,. No one else can be that secure and straightforwards - and logical.

Okay. Sorry. I'm really sorry. But reading this thread feels like walking an ever raising climb, rocks falling down to you every minute, and the guys around you whom you thought to climb the mountain trying to drag you down... or just perceiving those guys and none else.

Okay, I’ts getting late and I’m getting more and more annoyed with this… Maybe I just go to sleep and let you do this yourselves - anyway, if you lynch me I can get away from this nauseating problematics of trying to find a net-connection every-other day. You clearly have the wolves - or very ill-reasoned innocents to call the shots. At least the early shots of the Day.

I’m going to have a cigarette and then maybe I’ll read the rest, or then will not bother. I sadly started by way of commenting on every issue that looked like it was worth of commenting - and now I'm just out of any touch to anything that has happened... Okay, I need to try and read the Day through, but I'm not sure I'm able to give any decent comments after that...

But I'll try.

[Nienna]

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that. :D

That is fabulous. Fabulous. And we know the Wereduckling is always right.

Edit: x-ed with Nog

[Macalaure]

I have a half-written Wilwa-analysis, but I'm too tired and nothing makes sense anymore. I'll be around for a while more before I vote early, but don't expect much. I know I'm kind of sucking toDay, but I hope I'll be better toMorrow, provided the lynch mob/wolves/gifteds with kills let me.

And now Nogrod returned and brought a bag of headaches with him...

[satansaloser2005]

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that. :D

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. :p


Hey, I'll be off for a little while. Trying to upgrade my computer so she'll be strewn all about the couch. Thus, internet? Not going to be able to poke at it. ;)

[autume98]

*twiddles her thumbs*

Tum who are your suspects?

And chatspeak is like: lol, or instead of saying "are" or "you"... one says r u.

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks. I can't believe I did that! :eek: I try to go through my posts and make sure that they don't have any of that.

As for my suspects, I'll just give a list of people and my initial thoughts. They are in no particular order.

Wilwa - I haven't heard a lot from her. What she has posted hasn't made me suspicious of her.
Kath - I've never played with her before, and I haven't heard enough from her to get a feel for her.
Mira - I don't like her vote on Day 1 and her no vote yesterDay. I find it suspicious. I would like to hear more from her.
Zil - He seems a little off to me.
Lottie - I feel like she's an innocent.
Nienna - I haven't gotten a feel for you yet. I haven't seen anything to raise flags though.
Sally - I'm wondering if she's going after me because I'm an easy target. Interesting enough I'm not sure how I feel about her this game.
Nerwen - I'm leaning towards innocent. It seems that she genuinely wants to help us catch the wolves.
Foley - I've never played with him before, and there hasn't been a lot of posts. So I haven't been able to get a read on him.
Lalaith - I've gotten good vibes from her.
Greenie - I haven't played with Greenie before. So far I feel good with Greenie.
Rikae - I'm a little suspicious of her. She's been giving me some wolf vibes. First night she votes Phantom. And last night she voted for herself. I'm not sure this isn't a wolf throwing away a vote.
Shasta - I haven't heard that much from Shasta. I haven't gotten any suspicions on him at this time.
Mac - The more and more he's posted the more innocent he looks. I'm still holding him in reservation for later on, and I am keeping a close eye on him.
Nog - I'm not sure where he's coming from. He's definitely looking more and more suspicious. However he's not here to defend what he wrote this morning.
phantom - I'm sooo excited to be playing with him! So far he's only been giving off good vibes and I'm not suspcious with him at all.

All in all if I had to vote right now it would either be for Rikae or Sally.

Edit: x-ed with a few

[Macalaure]

Nogrod -> Loslote
Greenie -> Nogrod
Lalaith -> Loslote

Personally, I feel pretty good about Nogrod right now. I've never seen a wolf throw a hissy fit unless they're about to die. While Nog has a few people suspecting him, there's no bandwaggon yet and Autume is likely to join him and Lottie.

[Nienna]

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks. I can't believe I did that! :eek: I try to go through my posts and make sure that they don't have any of that.

As for my suspects, I'll just give a list of people and my initial thoughts. They are in no particular order.

Wilwa - I haven't heard a lot from her. What she has posted hasn't made me suspicious of her.
Kath - I've never played with her before, and I haven't heard enough from her to get a feel for her.
Mira - I don't like her vote on Day 1 and her no vote yesterDay. I find it suspicious. I would like to hear more from her.
Zil - He seems a little off to me.
Lottie - I feel like she's an innocent.
Nienna - I haven't gotten a feel for you yet. I haven't seen anything to raise flags though.
Sally - I'm wondering if she's going after me because I'm an easy target. Interesting enough I'm not sure how I feel about her this game.
Nerwen - I'm leaning towards innocent. It seems that she genuinely wants to help us catch the wolves.
Foley - I've never played with him before, and there hasn't been a lot of posts. So I haven't been able to get a read on him.
Lalaith - I've gotten good vibes from her.
Greenie - I haven't played with Greenie before. So far I feel good with Greenie.
Rikae - I'm a little suspicious of her. She's been giving me some wolf vibes. First night she votes Phantom. And last night she voted for herself. I'm not sure this isn't a wolf throwing away a vote.
Shasta - I haven't heard that much from Shasta. I haven't gotten any suspicions on him at this time.
Mac - The more and more he's posted the more innocent he looks. I'm still holding him in reservation for later on, and I am keeping a close eye on him.
Nog - I'm not sure where he's coming from. He's definitely looking more and more suspicious. However he's not here to defend what he wrote this morning.
phantom - I'm sooo excited to be playing with him! So far he's only been giving off good vibes and I'm not suspcious with him at all.

All in all if I had to vote right now it would either be for Rikae or Sally.

Edit: x-ed with a few

Thank you for trying, Tum... Your top suspects are my one most trusted and another who I think is seeming rather innocentish... This doesn't put you any higher in my graces, I fear.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here's another note I thought of. Rikae, why did you bring up what you did about Mac earlier? People (possibly even you) have chided others for doing the same - it doesn't seem like an innocent thing to do. The way you brought attention immediately to it seems off to me.

[Nienna]

I crossed my last post with Mac and I put this in a new post because I do wonder why everyone is suspecting Lottie. Is there a case I've just missed??

Edit: x-ed wth Shasta

[Inziladun]

And while I'm accusing people, I'd like to mention - what is all this balderdash from various quarters about an autume lynch being a repeat of the last two lynches? At this point we have much more to go on, and as far as I'm concerned, a Tum lynch would be the only one of the three that has much logic behind it at all. Just because you see players as somehow similar doesn't mean their roles or the cases for their guilt are also identical. It's a really flimsy defense, and if Tum does turn out to be evil, I will be very wary of those who used it.

Since I don't think it's likely a wolf's going to pop out of the woodwork and confess, I see no reason to vote anyone except Tum. There's just too much there to ignore. Yes, innocents have acted confusedly before and therefore looked suspicious (don't I know it? :rolleyes:). But here we're talking multiple incidents. I just don't buy that it's just all the work of a misguided innocent.

Anyway bedtime and thus voting time. It crossed my mind - is there a chance Nogrod and Tum could be wolves together? I haven't got time to go back through the whole thread to check now. And I still have reservations about voting for either of them which I have already voiced.

A possible link between Tum and Nog is one thing I'm very curious about. I put what I saw as signs of it here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=635237&postcount=342). I'd still rather go for Tum over Nog at this point.

x/d with all since # 669

[satansaloser2005]

I crossed my last post with Mac and I put this in a new post because I do wonder why everyone is suspecting Lottie. Is there a case I've just missed??

Edit: x-ed wth Shasta


I'd kind of like to second this. I understand the post of fail (no offense, pumpkin) and that she's been a bit off, but what's the big deal?

Abigail (^_^) says hello to everyone, and that she's super duper fast and happy. That being said, she's rewarding me with the net access to analyze Foley. Back with that.

[Inziladun]

I crossed my last post with Mac and I put this in a new post because I do wonder why everyone is suspecting Lottie. Is there a case I've just missed??

I don't see a great deal there, at least nothing to compare with the evidence against Tum.

x/d with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Before I pop off to look at Foley, I'd like to say that, even more than Nog, I'd like to lynch Tum. I'd be happy with either one (at least more than Lottie) but Tum's looking more evil....at the moment anyway.

[Nogrod]

2. Could somebody please try to explain that statement of Nogrod's that I highlighted about innocents earlier today? It's been niggling me all day and I simply can't think of a reason why he said it that isn't really, really dodgy.Reading here... Do you mean the lynchings?

Easy.

On D1 it was between Beigei and Eonwë - both known innocents.

On D2 it was Eonwë (a known innocent to all) and me (I know I'm innocent).

So in the end no wolf has ever been even close to the gallows - and that's quite a disheartening fact. And we need to change that.

(And to bore you... yes, I know you won't trust me by my word of it, like I've said like ten times already, but I'll be the one who says "I told you so" in the end - believe it or not).

[Inziladun]

Abigail (^_^) says hello to everyone, and that she's super duper fast and happy. That being said, she's rewarding me with the net access to analyze Foley. Back with that.

Let's have it then, Abigail.

I forgot Folwren was playing. Same goes for Shasta, really.

x/d with Sally and Nog

[Inziladun]

Might as well go ahead....

++Tum

[Rikae]

Here's another note I thought of. Rikae, why did you bring up what you did about Mac earlier? People (possibly even you) have chided others for doing the same - it doesn't seem like an innocent thing to do. The way you brought attention immediately to it seems off to me.

I said why in the post. :rolleyes:
There was no way that was a sincere seer hint. No real seer - except maybe a total newbie - but certainly not a Mac-seer would be so clumsy.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Day 1

6 - Comments on how many roles there are and how formulating plans will be difficult. Wants to watch SPM.
Want to know how tired I am? I was within an inch of posting a first post that was IN CHARACTER!! Thankfully I remembered just in time that characters were tied to roles, and that posting in character would be stupid for most and downright illegal for some.
There's really nothing suspicious about this, but it rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Willing to chalk it up to phantom being phantom, though.
8 - Banters with Lottie regarding lynching her. Normally not suspicious, but the wording gives me pause.
I had no plans for lynching you, but seeing as you are expecting it- well, I would hate to let you down. :p
The only reason to not have plans to lynch someone is because you're furry and they're furry. Or you know something the rest of us don't, which is highly unlikely this early in the game.
10 - More banter with Lottie. Nothing worrisome though.
12 - Goes to bed.
34 - Responds to Foley Just great. What you're basically saying is that if I start acting silly you'll lynch me. Way to take my fun away! :(
This could very well just be my impression, but he has been acting less silly than usual...Maybe he actually took it to heart?
Also sarcastically agrees with Rikae about lynching the seer.
34 - phantom's ego responds to Inzil.
47 - Oh, come now, this day isn't useless at all! I've already seen three players for certain (possibly more but I haven't had enough time to read carefully) who have done something to point towards a particular sort of role, and the only thing that remains to be seen is if they are serious in doing so or if they are merely hoping to cause the opposition to make an incorrect choice. The mind games have already started! :cool:
51 - Responds to Nerwen re: Zeus' allegiance. Says if Hera dies, Zeus sides with the village since he isn't furry. Also asks for clarification that that holds true for the other non-WW lovers.
54 - More Lover talk. Says surviving one can't win as lover, so can do whatever they please after partner dies (including off themselves). Insert Romeo and Juliet analogy here.
While not overly stoked on how much of Day 1 was spent talking about the lovers, there's no doubt that we have a tendency as a group to latch on to things like a dog (wolf?) with a bone for much longer than really necessary. As such, I don't particularly find the people who perpetuated the conversation suspicious, as there wasn't really anything else going on to distract from at the time.
57 - Defends Romeo and Juliet analogy as not meant to be true to the original tale and just for demonstration purposes.
As a fairly well educated young man (heh) I find it hard to believe that this was an innocent slip, but can't figure out what it would mean if it's not, especially since player gender aren't tied to their character genders.
71 - Responds to Nog's concerns about the lovers forming an alliance and thus voting block:
This is why early on I'd be more than willing to kill an "innocent" lover if I felt I had some idea who one was, as it would at the least remove the doomsday scenario of four wolves plus three lovers (plus possibly the cursed and the mytho!!) working in concert.
Nothing overly suspicious about wanting to prevent that particular scenario.
73 - Steve asks what we do if a Seer reveals. Pretty much says depends on what is said.
77 - Re: false Seer revealing. Nog suggests a reveal if the false Seer figures xerself out. Phantom disagrees as would narrow down who the wolves should kill. Reminds that Hera and Hephaestus (both wolves) can dream if lover is killed under right circumstances:
Plus, don't forget that the Wolves can dream too! Hera and Hephaestus both can dream if their lover is killed under the right circumstances, and what if they dream of the Seer, eh? If the false Seer has already revealed, they'll know that's the real one. But if the false Seer hasn't revealed, they may use their dream on him.
Yadda yadda good point yadda yadda.
81 - Clarifies that last post was in regards to false Seer knowing he was false.
86 - Responds to Rikae about Romeo and Juliet thing being moot since now have mod clarification. Also begins to get a little snarky:
Do you really think a village would be stupid enough to start at the beginning of the Seer trail and follow it to a lynch without first checking the end of the trail for signs that the Seer knew he was false?

Again- Nog and I were discussing a Seer who knew he was false. That fact completely negates (or should anyway) the idea of following their words to disaster.
91 - More snarking in Rikae's direction, but nothing much beyond babbling.
106 - Talks with Rikae about peer pressure, villager priorities ("to do what is possible to win"), more false Seer talk this time regarding hints and wolves following them
110 - the wolves dream of the false seer's role as seer. Why would the wolves be any less able to see the hints, in that case, than the village?
Under that circumstance the advantage to keeping quiet has already been won, due to the fact that the WWs were forced to waste a dream on the false Seer (who must have taken our advice and NOT revealed).
221 - returns.
240 - Responds to Rikae's questioning of his intentions in regards to Boro's opening post.
246 - Asks for updated tally and if BG's vote counted (no ++)
251 - Not keen on lynching BG, going to look at Steve, disagrees a lot with Nog.
258 - Thinks Steve is innocent.
261 - Warns everyone against last minute reveals in an attempt to save themselves. Points out that he is NOT suggesting reveal earlier, but instead defend yourself until you can't possibly afford to wait and see what's going to happen.
267 - Suggests to BG that if he was in her position to try to get people to vote for Nog for making arguments he doesn't agree with or Boro for not being around.
Obviously thinking about lynching what is now a known Seer, false or not, is suspicious. However, since phantom didn't look at Boro extensively, he might not have given that consideration.
271 - Asks what happens in case of a tie. Glirdy responds lsat person to receives votes will be lynched.
278 - Likes Nerwen. Takes pity on BG. Votes Steve.
In 258 he says he thinks Steve is innocent. Then he votes him for no apparent reason other than not wanting to jump on the BG wagon. Personally, I'd rather bandwagon than vote for someone I had said was probably innocent.
282 - I feel really stupid for defending Eonwe and suspecting Nog for his suspicion of Eonwe, but then I VOTE for Eonwe. :rolleyes:

This is one of those days I'd like to forget.
Points out his own failings. phantom doesn't make mistakes. Who can PM during the Day?
290 - Responds to Nog about Steve.

Based on just Day 1, however, phantom's looking rather sketchy to me. My problem lies mostly with his vote for Steve and his comment following it (282). I still have an issue with him making more sense than usual and not making me have strong homicidal feelings in his general direction, but it has been a while since he played. I'd rather not vote him toDay without getting to go through his Day 2 posts, but if a better option doesn't present itself, I probably will.

Oh, and next time I decide to analyze someone who posts this much, someone please punch me in the mouth. Day 2 will come either later tonight or tomorrow, assuming I'm still alive.

[Nerwen]

Well, Nogrod has now come back to explain himself... only he kind of hasn't.:rolleyes:

What to make of this? Generally I'd think an experienced wolf would try to answer the points against him– I think they're rather good points, actually– properly, rather than just yelling, "Nyaaah! Wolf yerself! I hate you!" Which I believe largely sums up that post. (#666).

Or is this a tired, cornered Nogwolf giving way to frustration, and hoping he can somehow bluster his way out of trouble? An experienced innocent, you'd think, would try to answer those points too.

Mmmn. It's not easy for me to be objective about him after three Days of this...

Could somebody please try to explain that statement of Nogrod's that I highlighted about innocents earlier today? It's been niggling me all day and I simply can't think of a reason why he said it that isn't really, really dodgy.
He didn't mean "everyone voted for was innocent" but "everyone who was the subject of a major bandwagon was innocent". (That bit he did explain). Still not a great argument, as it rests entirely on everyone else taking his word that he's innocent.

A variant on Sally's Hestia-plan that might work better and be less wasteful of innocent lives.....we could wait until either Seer actually dreams of something that confirms that they are true or false, and they could then tell us. If it is Hestia, s/he would be able to confirm if the other Seer is true or false, without naming them. If the other Seer, Hestia would then know if s/he were true or false. Then the protection racket with the Ranger/Hunter-Guardian could kick in...does that sound better?
Yes, that sounds more viable.

Autume (Not sure what the stuff around her is about, but I'll trust people that there's something. I'll see for myself eventually.)
An odd statement. I've said why her suspicious behaviour could be that of an innocent newbie... but you haven't noticed it at all in the first place? Really?

Foley: I'll have to find the post again, but at some point she tells us not to lynch phantom because she thinks he's possibly a good gifted. I don't see why a goodie would do that, unless Phantom was under extreme pressure to be lynched (which he wasn't at the time).
I don't know what post this is– but pointing possible giftedness doesn't mean so much in this particular game, does it?

Lottie: She makes no sense, like at all. Maybe Tum's lover?
Then they need to seek couple counselling ASAP. ...Seriously, where does that come from?

I just asked the wereduckling who we should lynch, and she said "lynch Papa."

Now, you can't get a better argument than that. :D

Well, that settles it, then. ÷÷Mac!

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[satansaloser2005]

Nerwen, look at my post after that. I headdesked aplenty for that one.

I meant that Tum was a wolf lover and that Lottie was possibly another one. My brain muddled the points when I was making the post and I said that they were lovered to each other, not each a possible lover of a wolf. Sorry about the fail. :o

[autume98]

So I went to do my analysis on Rikae. For the most part she comes across as innocent. And it's my experience that when she comes off innocent she's really a wolf. I also didn't like her votes. She admits that her vote for phantom would be a throw away vote and then does it anyway?

Hm, so apparently the narration will indicate when the cursed is turned - the ModGod has spoken. In that case, there really is no reason to go lynching Steve now.
I don't really want to vote for BG, since as far as I'm concerned she's done just as little to show she's a wolf as to show she isn't - but I still might vote for her for plain old lack of participation and sleeping under the reindeer. My other suspects are Nerwen, but I still think it's quite likely what she said was IC banter and I wouldn't like to lynch her for that; Phantom, but he hasn't explained himself and it would be a throwaway vote anyway, and Wilwa, simply because of the way she seemed to be trying to stir up suspicions around Boro's remarks while keeping her hands clean, so to speak, but again, that would be a throwaway.


I'm not going to vote BG because, well, it seems a little harsh at this point. The point about not participating has been made, and I don't see her as especially wolfish. I also don't see much purpose in voting for Steve: he hasn't had a chance to explain his "hint", and, if it was, he's on our side for now and we'll know when he isn't. Instead, I'm just going to do something that really should be done more often on day Ones everywhere:

++the phantom

For being the phantom.

Yeah. That felt good.

:smokin:

And then Day 2 she does another throw away? Now I'm no experienced player by any stretch of the imagination, but this just seems wrong. I would expect a more experienced player to not throw away their votes two days in a row.

Nope, don't really buy the theory that Autume's a wolf.

Don't buy the theory that Mac's a wolf.

Definitely don't buy the theory that Steve is a wolf.

I, however, am the wolfiest wolf that ever howled at the moon, therefore:

++Rikae

Seriously, I really hope toMorrow we can focus a little attention into the dark corners of this village, instead of on the over-examined and probably innocent loudmouths - and I have a novel to finish, so tschüss.

Edit: x-ed with all posts from #682

[Nerwen]

I said why in the post. :rolleyes:
There was no way that was a sincere seer hint. No real seer - except maybe a total newbie - but certainly not a Mac-seer would be so clumsy.
Um... what about Boro?

EIDT:X'd with Sally and tum.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen, look at my post after that. I headdesked aplenty for that one.
Sorry, I'd missed that one.

[Macalaure]

I would like to nominate this game's Nogrod-Nerwen fight for the WW Hall of Fame.

I'd consider staying up late just to watch it. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry, I'd missed that one.

Meh, I figured. Don't worry about it. I did look pretty stupid. ;)

[wilwarin538]

Okay, so who do I wants to vote for. Well, I don't think I want to vote for Nog, just cause he hasn't been around a lot and his last big post actually made me feel better. I don't want to vote Lottie because that's flimsy, I just think she's going after Tum very strongly (though I get the reasons), nothing else really seems so aweful. And pretty much everyone else either just slightly confuses me, or I feel good about, or haven't posted enough. And then there's Tum, who has a nice little pile of stuff against her. It kind of feels like it could maybe turn into a repeat of the last few Days, but there is a lot more solid stuff on her than what we had for the other two, so I suppose it's not exactly the same situation.

So than, since she does look quite bad, I'm going to go with Tum, and hope that this doesn't turn into another disastrous bandwaggon.


++Autume


Now I'm off to bed. Good luck.

x'ed with a couple

[Inziladun]

And then Day 2 she does another throw away? Now I'm no experienced player by any stretch of the imagination, but this just seems wrong. I would expect a more experienced player to not throw away their votes two days in a row.

But you, Tum, expressed appreciation and understanding of Rikae's motives for that vote at the time, didn't you? :confused:

Um... what about Boro?

Ouch. Funny, but...ouch. :)

x/d with all since # 687

[Rikae]

Tum, dear, it's kind of difficult to make an influential (that is, non-throwaway) vote in a village that is bandwagoning as much as this one has. You can make a throwaway vote or you can join the bandwagon, and I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon simply because it's there. :rolleyes:

But I think you know that perfectly well, don't you? Nice try, though, wolfiepie.

[autume98]

But you, Tum, expressed appreciation and understanding of Rikae's motives for that vote at the time, didn't you? :confused:



The appreciation was all fun and games lightheartedness. The understanding was I can see why she's doing it, however I'm not ok with it. If I were ok with it thought than I would've done the same thing myself last night. However I didn't think that would be the right thing to do. I thought it would be better for us as a village to go after a wolf. What good does a throw away vote do us?

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

[autume98]

Tum, dear, it's kind of difficult to make an influential (that is, non-throwaway) vote in a village that is bandwagoning as much as this one has. You can make a throwaway vote or you can join the bandwagon, and I'm not one to jump on a bandwagon simply because it's there. :rolleyes:

But I think you know that perfectly well, don't you? Nice try, though, wolfiepie.

So why not vote for someone you find slightly suspicious?

[Rikae]

I thought it would be better for us as a village to go after a wolf. What good does a throw away vote do us?

Uh huh. And what about when the entire village is going after what looks like an innocent? You think it's better to go along with the village and make yourself less conspicuous, right, Autume? Not so for me. If my vote is meaningless, it might as well make a point (as in Phantom's case) or be funny (self-voting.)

[Rikae]

So why not vote for someone you find slightly suspicious?

Oh, you mean one of those multiple candidates for lynching we had the last couple Days?
:rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

So why not vote for someone you find slightly suspicious?

You mean like Mac, who you said was your top suspect Day 1, then you voted for BG?

[autume98]

Uh huh. And what about when the entire village is going after what looks like an innocent? You think it's better to go along with the village and make yourself less conspicuous, right, Autume? Not so for me. If my vote is meaningless, it might as well make a point (as in Phantom's case) or be funny (self-voting.)

Well if this is less conspicuous you sure could of fooled me. :p

I haven't played enough games with you to know if this is something you do on a normal basis.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae and Inzil

[autume98]

You mean like Mac, who you said was your top suspect Day 1, then you voted for BG?

I thought I already hashed this out. If what I did was wrong it was a newbie mistake.

[satansaloser2005]

Well if this is less conspicuous you sure could have fooled me. :p

I haven't played enough games with you to know if this is something you do on a normal basis.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae and Inzil

Rikae's insane. We love her for it. <3

EDIT: x'd with Tum's last

[Rikae]

Well if this is less conspicuous you sure could of fooled me. :p

No, it isn't. I'm not the one who thinks the point of the game is to be as inconspicuous as possible - that's you.

I haven't played enough games with you to know if this is something you do on a normal basis.

Then just listen to the people who have. Can you hear them all screaming how guilty I am for not jumping on bandwagons like I always do? That Rikae, she's known for following the crowd and never doing anything unusual! Am I right, folks?
:D

[Rikae]

So anyway, since I really would like to focus on people other than Tum...

am I the only one who finds Mac creepy right now?

[satansaloser2005]

Rikae hasn't an original thought in her head. She's a very lemming-like player who always hops onto the opinions of others and never breaks away from the group. I don't think I've ever heard her act "out of turn" or "strange" in the thirty-some games (or so) I've played with her over the last two and a half years.

:Merisu:

Oh, and she's incredibly awesome. But that part's actually true. :D

[Inziladun]

Then just listen to the people who have. Can you hear them all screaming how guilty I am for not jumping on bandwagons like I always do? That Rikae, she's known for following the crowd and never doing anything unusual! Am I right, folks?
:D

I think this is at least the third game I know of that you've voted for yourself. :rolleyes:

Rikae's insane. We love her for it. <3

What she said. ;)

x/d with Rikae and Sally

[Inziladun]

So anyway, since I really would like to focus on people other than Tum...

am I the only one who finds Mac creepy right now?

I ought to go back and have a close look at him. I've found it somewhat odd that he refused to vote for Nog last Night, and then they both have seemingly been after Lottie toDay.

[autume98]

No, it isn't. I'm not the one who thinks the point of the game is to be as inconspicuous as possible - that's you.


Basically what I meant was that I didn't realize I was trying to be inconspicuous. It was just some dry humor that fell flat. What I need is a smiley that falls fat on their face right here. :)

Edit: x-ed with Rikae, Sally, and Zil twice

[Nogrod]

Hey Obie-phantom, shouldn't you cool your fan-girls a littlle bit? :rolleyes:
phantom - I'm sooo excited to be playing with him! So far he's only been giving off good vibes and I'm not suspcious with him at all.

Anyway, if that's the level of arguments used let's just call it a day - like I will call it anyway a Day pretty soon.

Heh, no need for your fancy set-ups tp - or any nice triple-bluffs anyone... it's up to how cool you are being perceived as... like politics in the real world! :rolleyes:




What to make of this? Generally I'd think an experienced wolf would try to answer the points against him– I think they're rather good points, actually– properly, rather than just yelling, "Nyaaah! Wolf yerself! I hate you!" Which I believe largely sums up that post. (#666).

Or is this a tired, cornered Nogwolf giving way to frustration, and hoping he can somehow bluster his way out of trouble? An experienced innocent, you'd think, would try to answer those points too.

Mmmn. It's not easy for me to be objective about him after three Days of this... Heh... you're quite right in a few points, like experienced, tired and frustrated... and having too little time for these few Days now.

But if you are really able to say that there are some good points, I'd really love to see them. I mean actual points other than annoyed retaliations or Lottie's "I don't like him" (and for the second time, despite your denial, you Lottie said that! word by word). I mean which are the points?

- Your innocence Nerwen? Should I take your word for it - would you take mine? Be what it may, it's something you only know and can't share (and even if I don't push for it right now doesn't mean I have forgotten it totally).
- Eonwë's role was not known by anyone before yesterDay.
- Lottie's "dislike" is no argument.
- Boro may be the false seer (I trusted the other way) but you didn't "know" it any earlier I did - and none of us actuallly know it, even now.
- Being over the top and playing it openly not considering one's own safety is not wolwery - kind of vice versa, but I might be fooling you to be sure.
- You don't know if you'd wish me dead. Happily.

So where are your actual points?

I'd really love to know them. Especially when you like to fly the flag of one who has made points and has not been given answers...


I would like to nominate this game's Nogrod-Nerwen fight for the WW Hall of Fame.

I'd consider staying up late just to watch it.If you had the chance... I'll be off in a minute (6.00AM right now) so sorry to deny you of your fun...

Anything to say now?



As a summmary...

Well I get a bad feeling from Lottie and her voting history is possibly very bad (instead of bad that fits everyone's votes!). And I just get the bad feeling from her. Sorry, no logic on top of what I have said (which is nbot little), but just a malicious feeling on top of all (read the thread to learn about other points))

I'm really at odds with Sally's masterplan (she must be a non-thinking ordo or then a wolf who has been told to suggest that to look like one).

I'm very concerned about the phantom and Rikae... and to a bit llesser extent, of Mac.

You three (four) - add Nerwen - I could really eat my hat if two of you were not wolves. Or maybe it's just one of you... if none of you is a wolf, then what could I do? Maybe eat that infamous 72oz. steak in Texas in an hour... (I could never make it) I mean 16 oz- was like real heroism for me in Amarillo. :rolleyes:

Add to that...

Greenie threw away her vote a bit too conveniently. Actually I think she's a wolf being first such a nice towards me ("to my own amazement I'm not suspecting Nog!") and striking immediately when she thought I was away... I could bet on that. A lot.

Who of you would stand up for her if someone made a case?

[the phantom]

I'm home, and reading to catch up. In the skimming that I've done so far I've seen some really really lame stuff. I'm thinking I'll have some strong words for some of you when I'm done and ready to post.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm really at odds with Sally's masterplan (she must be a non-thinking ordo or then a wolf who has been told to suggest that to look like one).

No one tells me to do anything, no matter my role. I'm just sayin'.

Also, just because you don't like the plan (likely because I brought up the possibility of your death as part of it) doesn't mean you can call me non-thinking. If you'd make a positive contribution to the village I'd take it more lightly, but....no.

Who are you and what have you done with my darling Noggin (and his noggin)?

I suppose I'll take your point about Greenie though. The difference is, I don't think she has evil intentions; I think she's just going for the person she thinks is the best lynch. I'm majorly agreeing with her at the moment.

[satansaloser2005]

Where the blazes of Hades is Kath? She'll be modfired if she stays disappeared, won't she? :(

[autume98]

Where the blazes of Hades is Kath? She'll be modfired if she stays disappeared, won't she? :(

I'm not sure where she is, but she did vote yesterDay.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

xSeeing as how I'm in this pretty content half-sleep watching Batman Forever, I'm just going to vote now so I don't fall asleep, miss deadline, and get modfired.

++phantom

[satansaloser2005]

I'm not sure where she is, but she did vote yesterDay.

Okay, good. I just noticed that she only had four posts and was concerned that I didn't remember seeing her vote yesterDay (that I remember anyway).


xSeeing as how I'm in this pretty content half-sleep watching Batman Forever, I'm just going to vote now so I don't fall asleep, miss deadline, and get modfired.

++phantom

WHAT?!?!

[Inziladun]

Where the blazes of Hades is Kath? She'll be modfired if she stays disappeared, won't she? :(

She voted for Nog yesterDay, so she should be all right if she misses toDay. Come to think of it, I don't think she's been here at all toDay.

xSeeing as how I'm in this pretty content half-sleep watching Batman Forever, I'm just going to vote now so I don't fall asleep, miss deadline, and get modfired.

++phantom

Because of your analysis? Hmm. I think there are better options, but what do I know?

x/d with Sally

[Nienna]

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie (2)
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum (2)
Mira --> Phantom

[Rikae]

Where the blazes of Hades is Kath?
Sally is Hades and Kath is Persephone! ZOMG! Lynchlynchlynchitylynch!

:D

[satansaloser2005]

<3

K, must to dash. Foley's analysis and I will be back soon. :)

[Nerwen]

Nogrod, kindly go back, read my post and answer my actual points rather than your strawman version thereof.

I am getting very tired of you, indeed. At best, you've spent the entire game causing massive confusion and wasting everyone's time. I don't know what's up with you, but... honestly, whatever you are, why are you being such a jerk?

Heated battles are one thing, but the way you're been acting takes a lot of the fun out of the game.

You don't know if you'd wish me dead. Happily.
I don't know what this means, but it sounds like a threat. Is it?

Well I get a bad feeling from Lottie and her voting history is possibly very bad (instead of bad that fits everyone's votes!).
Meaning?

Greenie threw away her vote a bit too conveniently. Actually I think she's a wolf being first such a nice towards me ("to my own amazement I'm not suspecting Nog!") and striking immediately when she thought I was away... I could bet on that. A lot.

Who of you would stand up for her if someone made a case?
This... doesn't look good.

EDIT:X'd since phantom at #709.

[Nogrod]

Also, just because you don't like the plan (likely because I brought up the possibility of your death as part of it) doesn't mean you can call me non-thinking. If you'd make a positive contribution to the village I'd take it more lightly, but....no.Actually your suggestion of lynching me has nothing to do with my approval of the plan. Actually I have nothing to oppose being lynched as I'm most probably not being around that much in the few Days to come. But it's just the plain astonishment of how you are so sure Hestia is a (true) Seer? So how are you that confident? OR does it fit your position?

I mean tp has oftentimes good points to make but that shouldn't make you eat everything he says. Really. Did Hestia turnn into a seer - and into a real seer? How do you show me that so as I could believe it?

Unless you come with a plausible presentation of believable enough facts about that ultimate happy-scenario let's stick with what we have. And thence no double-seers or whatever you'd like to promise for lynching me.. :D

Hey Wolfie, how does it feel to get caught? ;)

EDit X'd with many

[Macalaure]

++Loslote

I won't vote for Nogrod or Autume, and the only alternative to throwing my vote away is to go for Lottie, who I don't really suspect anymore, but at least a little.

I'm too lazy to look right now, but didn't Wilwa and Inzil vote for the same person every Day?

Oh, and now that I see Nerwen's post, I realized that I overlooked some of Nogrod's.Who of you would stand up for her if someone made a case?It would always depend on the quality of the case, of course, but in all probability: me.

[satansaloser2005]

Actually your suggestion of lynching me has nothing to do with my approval of the plan. Actually I have nothing to oppose being lynched as I'm most probably not being around that much in the few Days to come. But it's just the plain astonishment of how you are so sure Hestia is a (true) Seer? So how are you that confident? OR does it fit your position?

I mean tp has oftentimes good points to make but that shouldn't make you eat everything he says. Really. Did Hestia turnn into a seer - and into a real seer? How do you show me that so as I could believe it?

Unless you come with a plausible presentation of believable enough facts about that ultimate happy-scenario let's stick with what we have. And thence no double-seers or whatever you'd like to promise for lynching me.. :D

Hey Wolfie, how does it feel to get caught? ;)

Exactly why you were a good subject, for lack of a better word. And we don't know Hestia is the true seer. That's what the plan was supposed to tell us. I'm honestly hoping that Hestia would be the false seer, because then the true seer would know they were the true seer and would still be safe. Whether the plan actually would work or not I don't know, because of revenge kills and other factors, but in theory the plan could work. And yes, it fits my position. It fits my position of getting rid of what I consider a major threat (that's you, love) and at the same time allowing the gifteds to learn the truth of their gift. You have a problem with the seers being clear on their dreams why?

Also, I read the narration and made the connection myself. Hestia is "seeing things she never before thought possible", which could mean anything, it's true. However, I think Glirdan wouldn't screw with us that much. (At least I hope.) What makes you think that Phantom is some kind of god (in non-game terms here) that I'm just going to blindly follow? Do you think that little of me, or are you trying to stir up more trouble to keep suspicion away from/direct it toward someone?

I second Nerwen. I'm sorry, but you're being a severe letdown in this game. If there's something wrong I'm more than happy to let this go, but I simply can't decide why you're acting so out of normal lovely Nog character and being a complete mess.

Are you all right? Do I need to worry about you or lynch you? Or both?

*goes back to Foley analysis*

EDIT: x'd with Papa Lupine :p

[Nogrod]

Oh just forgot... let Hestia (or someone with real seer-abilities) dream me. That's the nice part of your plan Sally.

Let's get this thing clear so that we can concentrate on more pressing things.

*Kick Adonis wolves!* :D

[Inziladun]

I'm too lazy to look right now, but didn't Wilwa and Inzil vote for the same person every Day?

As a matter of fact, we did! You and Nog voted the same Day 1 and Day 2. We've got you beat so far, but you two still have time to synchronise. :p

[the phantom]

Rikae- about Mac's supposed hints... I'm assuming you're just pressuring/testing him? Because honestly. I love to look for Seer hints, and his previous post that you pointed to was pretty much a nothing so far as I'm concerned. I'm not saying you're suspicious looking, but you are being too paranoid.

Lalaith- you voted for Lottie? *shakes head* I thought you read more carefully than that.
Phantom - something about him today has been rubbing me the wrong way... maybe it's his assault on Sally which I think is very unfounded or his strong desire to see me lynched...
How is my assault unfounded? She proposed something that would show the Wolves who the Seer is and get the Rangers occupied, thus minimizing the chances of a repeat of last night, for a benefit that is questionable (the Seer may not even be real). That's not difficult to understand. And you categorize my desire to lynch you as "strong"? Exactly how much have I attacked you? I mean- earlier today Mac was complaining that I wasn't going after anyone at all. You're majorly exaggerating.

Also, in a desperate attempt to not fall back asleep and have more weird dreams, I am going to go look at phantom

*stalks to Facebook*

...

Okay, now I'm going to go analyze his posts. :p
I love you for that, Meeper, but I'm afraid that's all I have nice to say about you, as you say some insane things in your post about me. Like, seriously. Way lame.
I had no plans for lynching you, but seeing as you are expecting it- well, I would hate to let you down. :p
The only reason to not have plans to lynch someone is because you're furry and they're furry. Or you know something the rest of us don't, which is highly unlikely this early in the game.
*rolls eyes*
1) It was obviously a joke to start with.
2) When first entering the game you don't have PLANS to lynch ANYONE!! Duh!! How could you possibly have someone singled out for lynching already? That point is just really ridiculous.
57 - Defends Romeo and Juliet analogy as not meant to be true to the original tale and just for demonstration purposes.
As a fairly well educated young man (heh) I find it hard to believe that this was an innocent slip, but can't figure out what it would mean if it's not, especially since player gender aren't tied to their character genders.
How can you possibly make something of an example? I was attempting to demonstrate a situation involving loyalties of lovers, so R&J was the first thing that popped to mind. But how can you fault me for which one died first when in fact in the play BOTH of them died, where as my example was about a situation demonstrating the loyalties of a lover who remains alive? It had nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the play. I mean... this is a nonsensical thing to even bother commenting on.
In 258 he says he thinks Steve is innocent. Then he votes him for no apparent reason other than not wanting to jump on the BG wagon. Personally, I'd rather bandwagon than vote for someone I had said was probably innocent.
I didn't think either of them were Wolves, and I felt bad for BG, so I went for Steve. I mean- on Day 1 what is so weird about that?

So yeah- I'm not even going to say you're grasping at straws. That gives you too much credit. Seriously, shape it up.

(edit: x-posted with tons of people)

[Folwren]

I'm here, just popping in to say that I'm around, am reading what has happened toDay and writing a post at the same time.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Meeper
57 - Defends Romeo and Juliet analogy as not meant to be true to the original tale and just for demonstration purposes.
As a fairly well educated young man (heh) I find it hard to believe that this was an innocent slip, but can't figure out what it would mean if it's not, especially since player gender aren't tied to their character genders.
How can you possibly make something of an example? I was attempting to demonstrate a situation involving loyalties of lovers, so R&J was the first thing that popped to mind. But how can you fault me for which one died first when in fact in the play BOTH of them died, where as my example was about a situation demonstrating the loyalties of a lover who remains alive? It had nothing whatsoever to do with the plot of the play. I mean... this is a stupid thing to even bother commenting on.
Oh yes, I meant to comment on that earlier. Meeper, well... you've said it yourself: what kind of non-innocent slip could that possibly be?

[autume98]

I have to say that I don't like this what could be the beginning of a Lottie wagon at all. Obviously I don't like the votes towards me, but I'm really not liking the votes for Lottie either. I can't say I like Mira's vote for phantom. I'm really not sure what to think about her. She pops in then heads out, and her votes haven't sat well with me from the beginning. I understand family stuff coming up, but what about Day one and toDay?

Edit: x-ed with Nerwen

[Macalaure]

Would everybody drop it a notch, please? Heated arguments are one thing, and it's all been fun for a while, but personal attacks and offenses are really going too far now.

[the phantom]

I mean tp has oftentimes good points to make but that shouldn't make you eat everything he says. Really. Did Hestia turnn into a seer - and into a real seer? How do you show me that so as I could believe it?
Dude, are you kidding me?

1) Glirdan practically spells it out in the narrative that Hestia is a Seer now.

2) And where have I stated that we knew she was the real Seer? I'm quite aware that she may be false, and that's part of the reason I was against Sally's plan! (The Rangers might be protecting someone useless.)

Ah, and Meeper carried her insanity further by voting for me. Her reasoning is so awful that I almost want to suspect her for it. *grits teeth* But I don't. I still feel good about her. But she's not doing us any favors.

And Mac- another Lottie vote? I'm telling you, she's clean.

And is this day turning into Tum versus Lottie? I'm totally not liking this.

[Inziladun]

And is this day turning into Tum versus Lottie? I'm totally not liking this.

Not liking that either are up on the menu, or just that Lottie is? If the latter, I agree.

[Nienna]

Mmk so I'm still around but if things don't start happening I'm going to go to bed probably before deadline. Just letting everyone know.

I'd much prefer Tum over Lottie. Just mentioning.

[the phantom]

Inzil- neither is my preference.

And does anyone have a tally?

[satansaloser2005]

Phantom, dear, the point of that plan was to make sure that the rangers weren't protecting someone useless.

Let me spell it out for you (and improve it a bit, since I didn't completely plot it out).

1. ToNight, Hestia would dream of Nogrod (or someone else that seemed a common suspect, for that matter).
2. ToMorrow, Hestia would come out.
3. Tomorrow, we would lynch the person Hestia dreamed.
4. If the person's role is what Hestia was told, we know Hestia is the real seer, and the rangers protect him/her. If the person's role isn't, the rangers can still protect him/her, but not of course on as strict a basis because Hestia's basically an ordo.

Of course if we agree on toMorrow's lynch toDay (which I actually don't want to do, but it's necessary for the plan if we pull it off like this) Hestia doesn't have to come out, instead just dreaming of Player X and finding out their validity at the end of the Day. Apollo could of course dream of that person as well, but that'd be a bit silly.


Again, I don't care about the plan, like whether we do it or not, but I don't see why people are saying it's so illogical. Personally, I'd like to know if I was the real seer or not. Maybe it's just me, but I think it would be helpful to the village (especially if we didn't have Hestia come out and both seers kept to the shadows and just learned their validity and were able to operate as normal).


EDIT: x'd since Phantom's 730. Darn it, I want to get my Foley analysis pasted in but keep getting distracted by other posts. Back in a tick.

EDIT #2: I had "seers protecting someone useless" at first, but fixed it. Whoops.

[Nienna]

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie (2)
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum (2)
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)

[Inziladun]

Inzil- neither is my preference.

Who would you prefer then?

[Rikae]

Well, Tum, you'll be pleased to know that toDay I won't be making a throwaway vote, since someone who actually has votes looks reasonably suspicious to me. It doesn't seem as if any of my other suspects are going to be on the chopping block, so...

++Autume

Sorry, Phantom.

[autume98]

Nog --> Lottie
Greenie --> Nog
Lal --> Lottie (2)
Zil --> Tum
Wilwa --> Tum (2)
Mira --> Phantom
Mac --> Lottie (3)

There are a total of 17 votes today. Six have been used leaving 11 left. That gives us a possible 11 votes. We need to use these votes wisely.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

[the phantom]

Inzil- I would prefer Nog, and I'd definitely give Sally a try. I'd also be somewhat willing to go for Kath maybe. Perhaps Lalaith even, as given what I said to her before and where she ended up... I think she's trying to be wrong.

[Nienna]

There are a total of 17 votes today. Six have been used leaving 11 left. That gives us a possible 11 votes. We need to use these votes wisely.

Edit: x-ed with Rikae

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

[satansaloser2005]

Phantom, tell me what's wrong with my plan. Don't tell me that you don't like it, tell me why you think it's so evil. This isn't half as whack as some of the stuff you've come up with in the past, so why am I evil for having an independent thought? I'm the queen of independent thoughts, for gods' sake, so tell me why I'm denied them?

I don't think I understand. I also don't understand why Nog apparently thinks I'm a stupid groupie. :(

[Inziladun]

++Loslote
I'm too lazy to look right now, but didn't Wilwa and Inzil vote for the same person every Day?
As a matter of fact, we did! You and Nog voted the same Day 1 and Day 2. We've got you beat so far, but you two still have time to synchronise. :p

Ah, you already did tie us when you wrote that. And there was me thinking Nog hadn't voted yet.

x/d with all since Rikae

[satansaloser2005]

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

This. :(

[autume98]

Well I'm thinking that Kath and Shasta probably won't show up.

Which would mean we have eight votes.

Edit: x-ed with Sally, Zil, and Sally

[Inziladun]

Inzil- I would prefer Nog, and I'd definitely give Sally a try. I'd also be somewhat willing to go for Kath maybe. Perhaps Lalaith even, as given what I said to her before and where she ended up... I think she's trying to be wrong.

I wasn't adverse to Nog, but I couldn't let Tum go another Day. As for your other three, Lal might give me the nearest thing to an uneasy feeling, but not enough to get me to vote her now.

x/d with Sally and Tum.

[the phantom]

Phantom, tell me what's wrong with my plan. Don't tell me that you don't like it, tell me why you think it's so evil.
No, Sally. No.

I've already done that. More than once. I wasn't using an invisible font. And no one seems to get my objections anyway, so forget it. I'm done with this.
Sorry, Phantom
Meh, whatever. At least you didn't vote Lottie. Of the two that's the one I'm the most confident about. Maybe Tum will pan out for us? Doubt it- but hope.

[satansaloser2005]

No, Sally. No.

I've already done that. More than once. I wasn't using an invisible font. And no one seems to get my objections anyway, so forget it. I'm done with this.

Erm, no, not really. Finding out which seer is which is not bad. I understand the flaw with them coming out, and it's a very valid point; we can't possibly risk the only legitimate seer we have, and I should have considered that further when I thought of the plan in the first place. I get that bit, but I don't understand why giving the seers added clarification is such an evil pursuit. Why don't you want the seers to know if their dreams are correct? Why don't you want them to have information?

[Nienna]

Children from Nebraska: can we be done? - love me. :)

[satansaloser2005]

Children from Nebraska: can we be done? - love me. :)

Oi, don't look at me! I'm trying to be a helpful little girl. *whimpers* Mummy?

[Nogrod]

Nogrod, kindly go back, read my post and answer my actual points rather than your strawman version thereof.And that woulld be like post #? Sorry too late to for me to go skimming over alll the unrelated stuff + all the nonsense. So where is it, if there is it? And really, a post that has been posted already... you are free to make a new one but let's then drop this moral high-ground you're climbing for...

I am getting very tired of you, indeed. At best, you've spent the entire game causing massive confusion and wasting everyone's time. I don't know what's up with you, but... honestly, whatever you are, why are you being such a jerk? Hey! Let's be decent out there! We have our roles, but let's not call each other jerks? If you're an innocent then trust me, we'll hopefully gain from this - and if you're not - then try to cope with it as a losing wolf...

And really, wasting everybody's time... the last Day (D2) I felt you were the one -with a few others who called for the same things - that were taking all my time! I had no chance of doing anything on D2 as all my time went into answering your ridiculous suspicions, and one's of those who backed you!

Also, it was not me but you who came back again and again too those issues we had already talked over (I tried to say time and time again that let's proceed from here). Were those others your lupine-friends or where they just ones to use you, I don't know.

That's the basic scenario from my POV. If someone says something then the lazy vultures come circling around without no need to give up anything themselves... they're vultures, you know. And the only substance they have is borrowed by those who really try to do something...


Heated battles are one thing, but the way you're been acting takes a lot of the fun out of the game.Seriously? I mean if yes, then I have to consider refraining from these multi-role games. I have nothing against you as a person and I really feel bad if that is the feeling you have - if you're innocent that is; as a wolf you need to be prepared to take everything, you knew that?

But seriously, if you're honestlly feeling bad I will apologise immediately...

*Apologises*

And I can always drop out - it would be more or less easy to me as I'm not sure how much I can be online on the next Day - or the one after that. Really my intention is never to make someone feel personally bad.

Games are games and no one should be offended or left feeling wounded because of it.



Anyway, back to the game-related questions...

You don't know if you'd wish me dead. HappilyI don't know what this means, but it sounds like a threat. Is it? Nope. Read it as you like. But let me say your reading of it that way makes you look worse than better...

And why are you so interested in saving Lottie? I mean why do you especially ask for my reasons to suspect her?

Or why do you think my off-hand "counter-attack on Greenie"didn't loook good? Looking at how she's been treating me I think mine was even easier than any immediate retalitation so many hear tend to do. And at the same time I was trying to find out who would stretch their necks for her - if she was a wolf I think she could very well be - okay, I don't need to explain you these basics to you, do Í?