Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The clan gathered around the fire, their eyes glowing faintly in the dim light. Several torches made of femurs, rags, and animal fat were smoldering.

"Thus far," said Feanorc, "the only deaths have come from rival clans."

"Curse them!" growled Niennorc. "Cut out their spleens and eat their eyes!"

"You are needlessly violent," Feanorc admonished.

Niennorc bared her teeth at Feanorc and shot her a nasty look. "Let them kill the beastly goblins that steal our food!"

"They'll come to us next!" shouted Shastorc.

Sallyorc stamped her foot, at a very sweet and well decorated grub, and, nodding to the grub, said, "They'll eat all our khup-kahks."

Losloblin fell over and muttered from the floor, "I think my feet will be safe from their appetites... they are unusually small..."

Borc leered drunkenly at Losloblin, but said nothing. Nerwoblin eyed her most reliable customer with disdain. Not even she would drink the brew she concocted from fermented things Shastorc discovered in the depths of the mountains. But Borc would drink anything, and tended to order the worst of her wares on purpose!

Storc suddenly muttered something that nobody quite heard.

"Hark!" called Vanilwoblin, "the vagrant has said something!"

"I doubt it was important," said Mirandoblin.

The Little Green Goblin crushed a spider that crawled up her leg and studied the remains intently. "Not so hard to squish, are they?"

Lommoblin scraped the spider's goo from Little Green Goblin's fingers and smeared it on the cave wall. "It will serve as a record," she said, though nobody listened. They were rather too busy trying not to hear Glorc's rather terrible singing.

He cried:

Forc is withdrawn and is terribly quiet
And Runorc the pool orc ought to go on a diet
because we all know it's true, we all know we've seen this:
his scandalous swim trunks barely cover his-

Nogroblin shoved a dead fish into Glorc's mouth. "You can't carry a tune," he said simply. Izzoblin and Celuioblin cheered as Legoblin and Kathorc began to ponder what Glorc could possibly have intended to rhyme with 'seen this.'

Inzoblin and Phantoblin coughed meaningfully. "If we could please get back to the discussion?"

Feanorc nodded. "The song was lovely, Glorc, and I'd love to hear what you have to sing about each of us, but we really rather need to discuss the very pressing problem of genocide that is occurring in the next cave over."

And it was true, for in the sudden moment of silence, screams could be heard echoing through the mountains.

--

Night One is currently in session. Please do not post to this thread.

[Nienna]

There is no visible difference between Night and Day in the caves beneath the Misty Mountains. As such, though days and nights above ground followed the rising and setting of the sun, the Days and Nights underground followed the internal rhythms of the goblin folk. Awake for twice as long as you sleep. Perhaps some of this rhythm was provided by the sheer discomfort of sleeping on craggy wet stone. The goblin folk stayed awake as long as they coherently could before collapsing into the rag piles that served as their beds. Once asleep, though they tossed and turned, the orc clan slept soundly, exhausted past any real notice of their physical pain. Except for one orc that held a secret.

This orc knew many secrets, to be fair, but they all stemmed from one, the biggest secret. All other bits and pieces of knowledge came from the unfortunate truth that this orc had never, ever slept an entire night without receiving vivid and prophetic dreams. The orc knew the dreams were true, and found no comfort in this fact: the orc knew all manner of distasteful things about every other being. It is hard, for one who sees the inner truths of those around them, to interact with others without revealing too much information. For, after all, how many individuals desire to spend time with a person who mysteriously learns all their darkest thoughts?

Of course this orc was not the only one with a secret; it was merely just that this orc was the only one whose secret affected the rhythms of the Night. The other orc with a secret desperately wanted to fit in with the clan, but couldn't help but think they were raging idiots.

As such, this latter orc watched every other little goblin tremble with fear of the legendary Sons of Elrond and their minions, and thought a little guiltily that maybe they all deserved whatever they got. Still, this orc felt a little tied, at least, to its roots... Conflicted, this orc simply tried to stay out of the way until it could figure out which side it was on.

Still, Feanorc and Niennorc knew nothing of this prophetic orc or this orc of questionable allegiance. They only knew that they'd been voted to stand guard over the rest of the clan while everybody slept. The congressional attempts to cast out the fiends of the clan would begin in the morning. Feanorc and Niennorc were simply required to keep an eye on the cave passages until Day.

As they paced and bickered, for they were bored and they were goblins, and that tends to mean grumbling, they managed to completely miss the one thing they should have noticed: creeping up behind them were four forms with calamitous intent.

Clad in rags and makeup like orcs, they approached Feanorc and Niennorc.

"Borc, is that you?" asked Feanorc.

Niennorc elbowed Feanorc in the trachea. "No, idiot, it's obviously Shastorc scavenging for noms!"

The forms moved closer, hazy in the poor lighting. Niennorc's torch did nothing to illuminate the situation.

Feanorc asked, "Glorc?"

Niennorc brandished her torch. "If it was Glorc he'd be singing really horrible songs!"

"True," said Feanorc.

By then, the four had finished their approach. "They don't smell right," said Niennorc. "They smell... good. Like... like baths. Or like... like perhaps they aren't covered in slime and whatever that thing that died out in the cavern is."

Feanorc cocked her head, curious. "You... you aren't one of us."

"No," growled Elrohir, straightening from his crouch, letting his orc rags and rusty helm fall from his gleaming hair. "But I'm good enough at pretending to KILL YOU!"

With that, Elrohir, Elladan, Arathorn, and Other Guy pounced on Feanorc and Niennorc, cutting their heads from their necks.

"I think that counts as half for each of us," laughed Elladan. "Which means I'm in the lead by two thousand eight hundred and fifty seven and a half. Take that, brother!"

Arathorn and Other Guy moped, for they knew that in their puny Man lives, they would never behead more than a few hundred goblins.

---

Day One has begun. You may begin posting.

Dead:
Feanorc and Niennorc - beheaded in the dark

Alive:
Boro
Celuien
Foley
Glirdy
Greenie
Izzy
Kath
Legate
Lommy
Lottie
Mira
Nerwen
Nog
Phantom
Rune
Sally
Shasta
Steve
Vanilwa
Zil

[Loslote]

I would go look at the site of the murder for clues, but the past few times I've tried to walk over, I've fallen over, so I'll just take you guys' word that Fenorc and Niennorc are dead. Dark times, dark times...(pun intended :p)

[satansaloser2005]

I didn't do it. I was too busy making the moddesses cookies. The end.

And now to vote, because I probably will be busy most of toDay (first half, anyway) and I have nothing better to do. Besides, I'm pretty sure Fea wants to be entertained. ;)



++Fea
and
++Nienna
for cookies

++Boro for snuggles

++Greenie for catchiest tune

++Mira for asylum

++Sally for coolest kid ever

++Lottie for game losing

++Steve for most mispronounced name

++Vanilwa for noms

++Phantom for representative

Totally not even kidding. Well, on the last one, anyway.


Repeat, for later ease of vote counting....

++Phantom for representative


EDIT: x'd with Lottie. No, seriously, I just noticed her post. Go me, right? >.<

[Loslote]

That's a lot of red text, Sallycake. Written in blood, per'aps? ;):p

[Inziladun]

Totally not even kidding. Well, on the last one, anyway.

Repeat, for later ease of vote counting....

[highlight++Phantom for representative[/highlight


Really? That amazing phantom gets a vote for rep in the first two posts of Day 1 without even showing up first? :eek::rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Lottie and Inzil- why have you not voted me for representative yet?

Nice to see at least Sally knows how to do this thing properly.

[satansaloser2005]

That's a lot of red text, Sallycake. Written in blood, per'aps?

Only if you got careless last Night, my dear Lottiepop. :Merisu:


Really? That amazing phantom gets a vote for rep in the first two posts of Day 1 without even showing up first?

Well, if he's good, I'll trust his judgement (for toDay, anyway). If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One. It's a win-win from my perspective, as he either is good and tries to do something helpful or he's evil and isn't dumb enough to do something horribly destructive....yet. ;)

EDIT: x'd with our beloved shadow itself....or, as I call it, BS :smokin:

[Loslote]

Well, if he's good, I'll trust his judgement (for toDay, anyway). If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One. It's a win-win from my perspective, as he either is good and tries to do something helpful or he's evil and isn't dumb enough to do something horribly destructive....yet. ;)

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you. :p



...yet.

[the phantom]

If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One.
To be perfectly frank, with sides as they are (only one gifted goodie) I would as a baddie most certainly try to off the Seer with a Day 1 lynch. It'd totally be worth it, and I'm sure I could disguise my intentions well enough to get away with it. I'm just daring and awesome like that.

Ah, but lucky for most of you I am not a baddie. Or, erm, I should say that I am a baddie, seeing as the enemies in this community are good guys. What do you folks think- should we reverse our terms for the sake of accuracy? It's rather weird to refer to the species that exists to kill and rape as the "good" side.

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

[Nerwen]

Or, erm, I should say that I am a baddie, seeing as the enemies in this community are good guys.

Ya hoi! What's this, lads? An Elf-friend in our midst?:eek:

[satansaloser2005]

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny.

I'll make everyone cookies if this happens. (Assuming Phantom pays the postage to mail them, of course, 'cause Sally is poor.)


And actually, sir, you do have a point. Stupidly, I'd looked over the rules and roles and then promptly forgotten them. So yes, you would do that, but you'd at least be classy about it, so you're still worth the vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Sallyorc stamped her foot, at a very sweet and well decorated grub, and, nodding to the grub, said, "They'll eat all our khup-kahks."

Somehow I missed this before, but I approve SO hard.

Also, Chrome won't let me format as I type? That's SO lame. :(

[Loslote]

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time! :p

[Nerwen]

And actually, sir, you do have a point. Stupidly, I'd looked over the rules and roles and then promptly forgotten them. So yes, you would do that, but you'd at least be classy about it, so you're still worth the vote.

Now, this is what I don't understand, my lass: why do you think one of these filthy Elves or their sneaking friends wouldn't want to murder our Seer first chance they get, no matter how the rules work exactly? Because they'll give 'emselves away? Nah! There's four of 'em, remember?

[Boromir88]

Borc starts one of his usual drunken performances late at night, in the middle of Nerwen's establishment, which always grabs everyone's attention. This time he's drawn his scimitar on a stool.

"I'll run you through, I will, if you don't leave this place, Demons!...What's that you say? You go around instructing everyone to hunt us for sport and you have the stones to come here to claim some kind of moral high ground? Bahahaha. You disgust me, you filth."

"Do you hear this lads, this pure Elf thinks we are cockroaches?" *Borc points to the stool. Some of the orcs who know Borc better laugh, other stare confused* "We are cockroaches huh? Better to live as a cockroach then live in fear of creatures who have done no harm to you. So while you spend your entire life in a wasted, and miserable existance, to rid your world of cockroaches, I will continue enjoying the simple things in life: good draught, free food, and pretty orc-women." *At this most of the orcs laughed*

"Oh, so you're not doing this for sport, but because a group of orcs several hundred years ago, committed some act of violence against you? Have you never heard this thing called, the sins of the father will not pass to his children? I would have thought you smarty-pants high elves would know this...but you continue to wantonly kill for crimes that have long passed and that I had no part in...Begone foul elf! Begone, I say" *Borc swung his scimitar down on the stool with such force two of the legs snapped*

This seemed to snap Borc back to attention and reality. "Ehm, hai hoi there, sorry 'bout that Nerwen jus' add it onto my tab."

"You mean the tab with the hole in the wall you left yesterday or the tab with the tray of my best china you dropped last week?"

"Erm...ah...can you just put it on a new tab?"


Ah, but lucky for most of you I am not a baddie. Or, erm, I should say that I am a baddie, seeing as the enemies in this community are good guys. What do you folks think- should we reverse our terms for the sake of accuracy? It's rather weird to refer to the species that exists to kill and rape as the "good" side.


"Villains and goodies you say? Alright, let's talk about who's good, and who's bad. We may be cruel, and we may be harsh, particularly to our orclings, but it's necessary because it's the only way to make sure they stay alive in this world. They are still young and naive enough to assume the best in others. To think those nasty Men and Elves, won't care they are different, and that they will be accepted for who they are. Not judged on a history they had no part in. These young'uns don't know this yet, but I've seen the hate in the eyes of those nasty tarks and prissy elves. If any one of our boys went up to an Elf, he would be gutted like a pig, before he could even finish the hai in hai-ho."

[the phantom]

Come now, Boro- what's with all the useless justification?

Face it- we orcs are evil. We were created for it. We can't be punished for the sins of our fathers? You know good and well that we'd commit those same sins if given the chance. If everyone keeps trying to paint Elrond's sons as the baddies here I'm going to start being deliberately unhelpful in disgust.

We orcs are the vicious and cruel baddies, and we're going to kill Elrond's sons and their helpers, NOT out of some sort of misplaced sense of justification, but because it's what we do, and we enjoy it!! We're going to capture them, and hurt them, and deliver their bodies one piece at a time back to their father, and their grandmother in Lorien. I say we work on plans to use them to draw her out of her woods. Heh heh heh... Oh the things we would do to that elf-queen.

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

[the phantom]

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time!
Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

[Loslote]

So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Not. Happening. I don't particularly think Fea and Nienna want their game hijacked.

As of right now, I'll probably give my vote to anyone (besides Phantom) who promises to try and get either Sally or Lottie lynched, because they're both pretty clearly trying to hide behind 'oh it's Day 1 I can do whatever I like and it won't matter'.

[the phantom]

Threatening my constituents, eh? And requesting kickbacks as well? "Do me this service and I'll put you into power."

You are just the dirtiest sort of politician!

Well done, lad. I'm glad to see someone who knows how the system is supposed to work. *snicker*

[Nerwen]

Now, lads, let's look at what we know: there's four of these sons of Elrond slinking around the place. Won't they be trying to get themselves elected? And won't they be able to get it done easier than you can roast a Dwarf? And if the phantomorc is one of them, mightn't he be talking treason just to confuse us? Regular Elvish trick!

EDIT:X'd since Lottie; originally quoted this post by accident– have deleted post in question.

[Loslote]

And if the phantomorc is one of them, mightn't he be talking treason just to confuse us?

What treason is he talking? This sounds important, but I'm not following your logic.

[Loslote]

As of right now, I'll probably give my vote to anyone (besides Phantom) who promises to try and get either Sally or Lottie lynched, because they're both pretty clearly trying to hide behind 'oh it's Day 1 I can do whatever I like and it won't matter'.

Or we're sleepy and know we won't be around, so we're voting for someone who's not likely to be easily manipulated by the wolves. Either way, really. :p

[Nerwen]

What treason is he talking? This sounds important, but I'm not following your logic.

Gah, didn't you hear him praising those murderers and Elf-friends? Maybe we're supposed to think, "oh, he wouldn't say that about himself..."

[the phantom]

Gah, didn't you hear him praising those murderers and Elf-friends?
Praising them? All I did was correctly state that they are the good guys, while we orcs are the evil side. Any orc pretending otherwise is not being true to his Morgoth-given nature! Know thyself. Embrace your true evil nature. We cannot hope to win if we adopt this namby-pamby attitude towards who we are! Give in to the dark side!

Need a second opinion. Let's ask Emperor Palpatine again-

Emp Palpatine: "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus- makes you stronger."

What do you think, Lord Vader?

Vader: "It is useless to resist."

(Remember- vote Phantom for representative.)

[Loslote]

Gah, didn't you hear him praising those murderers and Elf-friends? Maybe we're supposed to think, "oh, he wouldn't say that about himself..."

Now, that I wouldn't believe of him. Far too obvious. No, I'd look for at least a triple- or quadruple-bluff in tp's posts.

EDIT: xed with TP

[the phantom]

Oh, and I also thought I'd mention that anyone that votes me for rep is completely safe for that day. No lie.

[Nerwen]

Now, that I wouldn't believe of him. Far too obvious. No, I'd look for at least a triple- or quadruple-bluff in tp's posts.

Then look for it. I don't trust him.

Who's this Emperor Palpatine he keeps talking about? Some filthy tark, I'll warrant!

EDIT:X'd with the phantom; typo.

[the phantom]

Who's this Emperor Palpatine he keeps talking about? Some filty tark, I'll warrant!
"Palpatine, Palpatine," said Phantom, shivering and licking his lips, as if the word had a foul taste that he savoured painfully. "You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Nerwen," he said. "Palpatine! Ah! A tark?! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape!" he snarled fiercely. "You ought to know that he's the apple of the Great Eye."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Then look for it. I don't trust him.

Who's this Emperor Palpatine he keeps talking about? Some filty tark, I'll warrant!

EDIT:X'd with the phantom.

For this, Nerwen is probably getting my vote. I'm just saying.

That and I love her to pieces, yes I do. <3

Edit: X'ed with Phantom.

[Loslote]

Then look for it. I don't trust him.

Based on what, banter? He hasn't actually said anything provocative yet. While this is in itself almost odd, it's hardly something to mistrust him for. *shrugs* Then again, you have the advantage of sleep over me, don't you? :p

EDIT: xed since the post I quoted - and Shasta, you're looking at Sally and I for easy Day 1 votes? ;)

[the phantom]

I realize the thread is "UNDER" the Misty Mts, but every time I read it I get that tune stuck in my head from the old Hobbit cartoon. You know, the dwarf song-

"Far o'er the Misty Mountains cold...." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwqAhwqWkUk&feature=related)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Based on what, banter? He hasn't actually said anything provocative yet. While this is in itself almost odd, it's hardly something to mistrust him for. *shrugs* Then again, you have the advantage of sleep over me, don't you? :p

EDIT: xed since the post I quoted - and Shasta, you're looking at Sally and I for easy Day 1 votes? ;)

Yes, I am. Differences -

1. I said probably. You already voted, making it impossible to analyze your vote tomorrow should you live.

2. Of the posters right now, Nerwen is the most likely (besides myself) to not go along with any games Phantom might be playing, which is not an attitude I'd trust you or Sally to take (sorry, but it's true).

[Nerwen]

"Palpatine, Palpatine," said Phantom, shivering and licking his lips, as if the word had a foul taste that he savoured painfully. "You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Nerwen," he said.

Call my dreams muddy, will you? Enough of that, snaga, or I'll make you squeal, that I will!

Based on what, banter? He hasn't actually said anything provocative yet. While this is in itself almost odd, it's hardly something to mistrust him for. *shrugs* Then again, you have the advantage of sleep over me, don't you? :p
Said it before, Orcling: it's too easy for the Sons of Elrond to take over, right out in the open. I'd be careful trusting anyone too much– even if I didn't know half of you would stab the other half in the back, soon as look at 'em! No better than Elves, some of you lads and lasses are! And what's with all his Elf-talk? Bluffing? Trying to signal to someone? Yah!

Praising them? All I did was correctly state that they are the good guys, while we orcs are the evil side.

From the Elvish point of view! From our point of view, the Elves are evil!:p

EDIT:X'd since Lottie.

[Loslote]

Yes, I am. Differences -

1. I said probably. You already voted, making it impossible to analyze your vote tomorrow should you live.

2. Of the posters right now, Nerwen is the most likely (besides myself) to not go along with any games Phantom might be playing, which is not an attitude I'd trust you or Sally to take (sorry, but it's true).

1. No matter when I voted, there wouldn't have been any difference in how much there was to analyze.

2. True - there's really no point to it, in my mind. Either he's working for the Orcish Folk or he's not, same as everyone else. He happens to be louder and less likely to be manipulated by the SoE. See, my thinking is it's about 25% chance he's evil normally, but for most people, I'd have to add between 5 to 10% chance of accidentally working for the SoE. TP does his own thing, not very influenced by manipulations - other than his promise not to vote for those he is representing, which doesn't bother me - as I am not a SoE, which lessens the chance of him voting for a true Orc. Since I don't have a chance to really look at people toDay, this is the least risky move I could make, in my mind.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen

[Loslote]

Trying to signal to someone? Yah!

Who, in this game, is trying to signal to anyone? Even the Undecided Orc is, in fact, undecided. If the SoE signaled to xe, and xe noticed, and chose to remain true to xyr people, the SoE would be in huge trouble.

On second thought, it's an amazing idea for the SoE to signal to the Undecided Orc! You guys have nothing to lose! In fact, just reveal! It'll be so much more efficient! :D

[the phantom]

I never should've gone to YouTube to get that link, as there is so much LotR stuff I haven't watched in forever. I ought to be asleep now. *sigh*

Have you heard the news? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyAOss--A4)

Classic voice-over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLGx2lGtOc)

Sped up version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8t03nYyyDU&feature=related)

Just for Sally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=fvw)

[Nerwen]

Who, in this game, is trying to signal to anyone? Even the Undecided Orc is, in fact, undecided. If the SoE signaled to xe, and xe noticed, and chose to remain true to xyr people, the SoE would be in huge trouble.
That's a second option. First is (double–, triple–, quadruple–) bluffing. But the phantomorc could also be the Undecided Orc trying to let those cursed Elves and Elf-friends know he was on their side, couldn't he?

EDIT:X'd with the phantom.

[Loslote]

That's a second option. First is (double–, triple–, quadruple–) bluffing. But the phantomorc could also be the Undecided Orc trying to let those cursed Elves and Elf-friends know he was on their side, couldn't he?

If tp was the Undecided Orc, he'd never have decided already. Surely you remember the game where he was Zeus, and killed his own Seer to even out the game? If he were the Undecided Orc, he would not decided instantly to align himself with the SoE, he'd choose whichever side was doing worst at the time when he had to choose.

[the phantom]

From the Elvish point of view! From our point of view, the Elves are evil!
Seriously, stop taking this line on things people. I am going to be bad this game, darn it, and if you people keep putting forth this ridiculous notion that we are the good guys, I will have no choice but to become a Cobbler!

And no, I'm not the undetermined allegiance person. No bluffing here, just telling the truth. My allegiance is clear (evil), but if my entire team decides that they are in fact the good guys, then logically they have placed me on the other side. That's just the way it is.

Last week I snuck down to the Anduin and knifed a young boy and hid the knife beneath his sleeping brother's bed where I hope it will be found by someone and used as evidence of the brother's guilt. The week before that I mauled an old woman and left some great eagle feathers upon her. *snicker* And remember that little village I used to terrorize against the forest a bit farther north? The chief- I'd kill one of his friends or family each year on his birthday, ha ha! In the end he couldn't stand it and took his own life! *cackles with glee*

Don't tell me we're not as bad as they come! I know better!

[the phantom]

All right- seriously sleepy here. Before I go, just to make sure everyone knows what they need to know, a summary... Be sure to point newcomers back to this post, as it is doubtless the most important thing that will be posted until I'm back posting again tomorrow.

1) Vote Phantom for rep!
2) Phantom-Rep will not lynch his supporters.
3) We are Orcs. We should be evil and enjoy it!
4) If too many Orcs act like they're not evil, I'll turn against them.
5) No, that doesn't mean I'm that special role orc.

[Nerwen]

If tp was the Undecided Orc, he'd never have decided already. Surely you remember the game where he was Zeus, and killed his own Seer to even out the game? If he were the Undecided Orc, he would not decided instantly to align himself with the SoE, he'd choose whichever side was doing worst at the time when he had to choose.
Nah, that's just what he did that game.

Last week I snuck down to the Anduin and knifed a young boy and hid the knife beneath his sleeping brother's bed where I hope it will be found by someone and used as evidence of the brother's guilt. The week before that I mauled an old woman and left some great eagle feathers upon her. *snicker* And remember that little village I used to terrorize against the forest a bit farther north? The chief- I'd kill one of his friends or family each year on his birthday, ha ha! In the end he couldn't stand it and took his own life! *cackles with glee*
So? Serves 'em right! We all agree on that, don't we, lads?;)

All right- seriously sleepy here. Before I go, just to make sure everyone knows what they need to know, a summary... Be sure to point newcomers back to this post, as it is doubtless the most important thing that will be posted until I'm back posting again tomorrow.

1) Vote Phantom for rep!
2) Phantom-Rep will not lynch his supporters.
Phantom-Rep should lynch his supporters if he comes to think they're those murdering Sons of Elrond! You mean you wouldn't?

[Loslote]

Nah, that's just what he did that game.

And he said then, he likes fair and even games, and will try to balance the teams.

On that note, I have to be awake in six hours, so I'd better slip into that state from which I can awaken. Good Day, all.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Mesa see this has already gotten pretty interesting even with just a few people.

Um... that wasn't me. Snaga speak better. But I would like to ask, how am I supposed to play since TP already used half of the good quotes before I even had the chance. But so, I can start already with looking at what's happening here...

I am not entirely sure about whether it is good to have such a rush in the beginning. I mean, we can now - and probably will, very likely - spend the rest of the Day discussing whether TP is good or bad or whatever, and whether to vote him for representative or not, while of course another wing of die-hard anti-supporters will emerge and wish to lynch him, or something like that. While having a topic to start with is better than bumping in the dark (sic), and I am sure it makes TP happy to have all the Day for himself, not sure if the way things have been focused on is the best to do it. But at the same time, it is at least a good topic for the start - and with such a topic, the way of people's behavior might nicely begin to show in people's reactions (and of course it will be most interesting to see this after tp is dead and we know his role, mwahaha *licks blade* ;) ). But we have still a full Day in front of ourselves, and this is a big village, so I think there will be lots of time to speak of different things.

For start, what I think about the initial debate (and about phantom's proposal - but I will save the best for the latest, of course :) ). I have to agree with what's been said that tp acts according to his own ideas, and it might be that even as SoE he will be actually equally dangerous (because of this) to his pack. On the other hand, not sure if, with such an attitude, he can expect to last long.

Oh, and I also thought I'd mention that anyone that votes me for rep is completely safe for that day. No lie.
Okay, this is the one thing I really dislike - that's basically blackmail. It effectively means that "if you don't vote me, look, look, everyone else will do it, and then I will lynch you, because you will be the last remaining one". Speaking of that, I'd like to see what will you do with your promise if really everybody voted for you, phantom? Then people could only die at Night. Not that I think that you would think it will work - there will be always somebody who disagrees and will not vote you - but if it was like that, it would be the craziest way to make the Sons win. I must also say, there is one thing - if everybody unisono voted phantom, there will be lot less clues as well.

But now let me sum up what I think of phantom's proposal, personally. From the above already you can see, phantom, that I am not so keen on supporting you straightaway. While the idea might be good if you are good, sorry, I mean evil; I am not too keen on voting you, mostly just for the sake of that I think there will be more people - possibly like sally and Loslote - who either for lack of time, lack of Day 1 imagination or even for SoE-ish hiding in bandwaggon reasons (as already Nerwen well noted, and I think it is a good possibility) - will give their vote to you, and given how the system works in this game (if I understood it correctly), that will give tp-representative's vote tremendous power, even if there are a few other Representatives, each with his pitiful one vote or something like that (and I know, it is obvious that you will enjoy using the quote "Poweeeer! Un-limited poweeeer!" once you get there). Again, I think it is safer for the SoE if the votes do not split too much here - if it becomes all deed only of one Phantom, then even if he were innocent (read: innocent of murdering Orcs, not of all other things), we get no real clues from the lynch aside from "the phantom did it right/wrong". So because of this, I think I will rather go for somebody else, to offer a decent competition.

That's not to say I could not still vote you if you, say, keep only your two or three votes and nobody else votes you and you seem trustworthy. Apart from what I have said (which is an analysis), I have no reason to think your doings worth suspicion. In fact, I'd have found it most disturbing if you decided not to run for a representative - now that would be disturbing. I only find it unwise to vote you now. But we shall see. Still, we've had only a few people showing this far, so I am most interested to read from all the others, and see whom I deem worthy of my vote.

[Thinlómien]

Hearts
Legate
Nerwen (!!!)
Shasta

Does not heart
Sally
Lottie
phantom (jerk)

Really, the beginning(ish) of Day One and I already feel like jumping and screaming. Who the idiot came up with the idea for electing phantom as a representative? I really can't think of anything more stupid than carelessly giving your rep vote away in the beginning of the Day to vote some guy with terribly inflated ego just because he loves the attention. *glares at Sally and Lottie*

I think it would be a much better idea to make history in a different way - by lynching phantom on Day one. :p He claims, after all, that he's never been lynched.

/rant

*deep sigh*

Well, even if I try to think of this objectively, it doesn't look much better. I don't honestly understand why anyone - innocent or guilty - would throw away their rep vote so carelessly for somebody whose alignment they have no idea of (probably). The fact that there were two of them makes me quite worried. It doesn't help at all that Sally is claiming to amuse the mod and Lottie said she's voting early because she won't be around later but she still made several posts after her vote. It's just utter stupidity. The only scenario that makes sense is that one of them is a wolf with phantom and uses his phantomness and excuse to make an easy rep vote for a fellow and the other girl is just using the opportunity to mess around for fun.

As for phantom himself, I don't know what he's up to, and to be honest, I'm not very interested in spending all Day playing games with him to figure out if he's good or evil because he currently annoys me (although it's not his fault the two voted him for rep, of course).

Otherwise, there is not much to say yet. Should we discuss the rep rules? I think at least that it's ridiculous to make this into a disgusting politics game where you make parties like "you give me your vote, I won't lynch-vote you" - it's not silly but also dangerous: it becomes a war of clans where one's party matters more than their true alignment, which we definitely don't want in a werewolf game.

And I don't like the fact that we have 48 hours each Day. It tends to make people (myself included of course) lazy instead of enthusiastic to use the extra time for finding wolves.

[Inziladun]

To be perfectly frank

Frank? Who's that? :p

Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Nar, too much power in the hands of one Orc isn't desirable. What's head-shaking is that you've already gotten two votes with your antics. :rolleyes:

Who's this Emperor Palpatine he keeps talking about? Some filthy tark, I'll warrant!

I was wondering that myself! Seems to know more then he should.....

Really, the beginning(ish) of Day One and I already feel like jumping and screaming. Who the idiot came up with the idea for electing phantom as a representative? I really can't think of anything more stupid than carelessly giving your rep vote away in the beginning of the Day to vote some guy with terribly inflated ego just because he loves the attention. *glares at Sally and Lottie*

Right. Isn't it better to hold off and see what everyone has to say before making such an important decision? And actually, we aren't bound to voting anyone for rep, I don't think, even though it's a power we should exercise. If one doesn't have time to wait and examine everyone before voting though, I think not voting is the better option, as long as one has a very good excuse for not doing so.

I think it would be a much better idea to make history in a different way - by lynching phantom on Day one. :p He claims, after all, that he's never been lynched.

There's an idea!

And I don't like the fact that we have 48 hours each Day. It tends to make people (myself included of course) lazy instead of enthusiastic to use the extra time for finding wolves.

Wolves? They're our friends!

[satansaloser2005]

Now, this is what I don't understand, my lass: why do you think one of these filthy Elves or their sneaking friends wouldn't want to murder our Seer first chance they get, no matter how the rules work exactly? Because they'll give 'emselves away? Nah! There's four of 'em, remember?

Erm....I'd originally thought we had more gifteds than that, actually. Sorry. o_O

Still, since I won't be back much toDay, I figured I'd give my Day One vote to someone I trust to at least be interesting and whom I think will be good to keep around.


For this, Nerwen is probably getting my vote. I'm just saying.

That and I love her to pieces, yes I do. <3

Edit: X'ed with Phantom.

Well there's half of the SoE right there. That's a clear hint. Clear. ;)


I never should've gone to YouTube to get that link, as there is so much LotR stuff I haven't watched in forever. I ought to be asleep now. *sigh*

Have you heard the news? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtyAOss--A4)

Classic voice-over (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLGx2lGtOc)

Sped up version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8t03nYyyDU&feature=related)

Just for Sally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=fvw)

And this is why I love you, dear. :)


Really, the beginning(ish) of Day One and I already feel like jumping and screaming. Who the idiot came up with the idea for electing phantom as a representative? I really can't think of anything more stupid than carelessly giving your rep vote away in the beginning of the Day to vote some guy with terribly inflated ego just because he loves the attention. *glares at Sally and Lottie*

Well, thanks. At least now I know who NOT to vote for in the future.

Really, Lommie, is that attitude necessary? I mean....really? :confused:


I have to go, as I'll be late for work otherwise. Phantom, darling, do right by me, okay?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not evil! I am just a very serious case of negative social inheritance!

Anyways isn't this an awfully predictable start to our struggle? Already some orcs chose the path of placing a loud-mouth in the centre of attention. . . seriously, let him work a bit for the attention!

I'll return with as soon as I have mustered enough energy to read Legate's no doubt dreadful post.

[Glirdan]

As much as I would love to do some IC bantering, I will not...much too tired as I just got in from work...yay....


And I don't like the fact that we have 48 hours each Day. It tends to make people (myself included of course) lazy instead of enthusiastic to use the extra time for finding wolves.

I agree with this, yet at the same time, it gives people more of a chance to vote thus eliminating the "I didn't have time to vote" excuse. If this ever happens, then we at least have something to look at.

As for all of the phantom as rep business, I'm not sure what to make of it yet. All I know is my gut is telling me not to vote for him.

I don't know what to make of most things right now because I'm utterly exhausted and probably need some sleep...or at least coffee. I'll be around.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I got around to read Legate and Lommy's posts and I hate to admit it, but they where not complete trash.

Legate's post is interesting/funny because he doesn't want to discuss The Phantom, but is forced to due to previous events. Besides from that his reasoning is very sound and hard (for me) not to agree with.

Lommy I really like. She is annoyed, bitter and straightforward, very unusual for her and I like it. It is like we have a new and improved Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

I agree with this, yet at the same time, it gives people more of a chance to vote thus eliminating the "I didn't have time to vote" excuse. If this ever happens, then we at least have something to look at.Good point.

As for all of the phantom as rep business, I'm not sure what to make of it yet. All I know is my gut is telling me not to vote for him.Well, anyone should think twice before voting him for representative now. I mean, with two votes he already is a representative, and it would be very rash to give him more power by making him a powerful representative when the Day is still in the beginning and no one else has received any rep votes.

Wolves? They're our friends!I think I will get fed up with these jokes in not so distant future... :p

Really, Lommie, is that attitude necessary? I mean....really? Is that attitude necessary? What do we gain by voting carelessly and meanwhile boosting tp's ego? (Sorry tp that I keep bringing you to these arguments like this but these guys are trying to buddy up to you by stroking your ego.) And sorry Sally (and Lottie) if I have offended you, that was not my intention and I still heart you - but you do act very sillily in my opininon.

But if Sally is genuinely offended, then I'd say she's more innocent than guilty.


edit: xed with Rune

[Thinlómien]

So I'm improved when I start bitching? Wonderful. :D

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So I'm improved when I start bitching? Wonderful. :D

In my opinion, yes!

Of course a change of attitude could also indicate sinister motives, but so far I have no reason to believe that this is the case.

[Inziladun]

Well, anyone should think twice before voting him for representative now. I mean, with two votes he already is a representative, and it would be very rash to give him more power by making him a powerful representative when the Day is still in the beginning and no one else has received any rep votes.

I don't think he needs any more votes.

I think I will get fed up with these jokes in not so distant future... :p

That's the last one from me. ;)

[Glirdan]

Well, anyone should think twice before voting him for representative now. I mean, with two votes he already is a representative, and it would be very rash to give him more power by making him a powerful representative when the Day is still in the beginning and no one else has received any rep votes.

I actually had forgotten that it only took two votes to be a representative.

[Nogrod]

How come everyone is so predictable these days? :p

But as Lommoblin said, there seems to be a real danger of partisan-politics here. Polarisation is the poison of democracy.

It seems we already have two "parties" here - and a few bystanders who carefully consider their words not to commit themselves. This Sally - Lottie - tp triangle looks just a bit too obvious to be true. But the moral highground of Shasta - Nerwen - Lommy trio is kind of too neat as well. And the carefulness of Legate -Zil - Glirdy looks soo suspicious...

Gah. Sorry about throwing you guys into these "easy categories": they are my first impressions. I hope I can elaborate on them later and maybe put up some better ideas.

But really Phantoblin, you will not vote for those who vote you for representative? First of all you contradict yourself as you insist on being bad at heart - wouldn't lynching those who trust you be the "baddie move" then? (actually you should have to break that promise as a representative for me to trust you...) Secondly: if you are on the orc side isn't your task to get rid of the elves whoever they are - even if they try to do you lip-service by voting you as a representative?

Anyway, if we are baddies everyone (besides the SoE) should we try to harm our own case just to be evil? I don't see that discussion to be interesting, helpful or useful. We have a task at hand, getting rid of the elves, whether we call getting rid of them good or bad.


~*~
A practical note (as people don't normally read the admin. thread): My home internet connection died yesterday, so for now I'm dependent on any wireless internet connections for my laptop (basically my neighbourhood pub) and my school's computers during daytime. That will limit the times I can be online greatly. On the positive note I get to sleep my nights as there is no internet for me after the pub closes... :D

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am afraid, but I need to make an early vote.

I unfortunately I have basically nothing to base my decision on. . . I am sure that it will surprise absolutely nobody that I will give Lommy my vote. (whether she likes it or not)

btw I would happily be a representative my self. . . Power is nice.


++ Lommy for representative

[Folwren]

You people talk too much. I was going to listen to everybody, and then people started talking in long paragraphs at a time.

I don't trust Phantoblin. I think he's a sneaky liar. I know that some stuff he said was certainly in jest, but if he really wants EVERYBODY to vote for him, how is he going to keep his promise of not voting to kill any of his supporters? And what if only one or two people don't vote for him? Are they automatically guilty? Stuff and nonsense.

I'm most inclined to vote for Nerwen as my representative...but I am going to wait until time has passed and more things have panned out.

I am an orc of few words, and my few words have been spent.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am actually surprised with the really strong reaction of Lommy's to the phantom-business, while I agree, it's a bit scary the way she reacts so strongly. But at least it seems to have an intimidating effect and people realised (if they didn't do so by themselves) what power do the votes hold - basically what I said.

I must thank to Rune for finding enough energy to read my post and at the same time find it "not complete trash" :) Although I should remark that the "buttering up" of mine and especially Lommie's posting made me worried a little bit (I am thinking of the general wolf strategy of "buddying up" with somebody, which especially in the representative-game can also have other effects, like getting people to vote for you as the representative. I think actually that is an issue we should keep an eye out for in this game as well, for that matter, the thing about sally and Lottie possibly also "buddying" phantom in this way holds too). That said, I do not consider it any obvious sign of guilt or anything like that, but at least it looked a little attention-rising to me now (with the sort of enthusiasm Rune had, unusual, seemed to me).

I could also remark that I find it funny, though, how since several of the posts which pointed out the danger of having all votes for phantom, and especially after Lommy's rather strongly frustrated post, the "public thinking" sort of shifted towards the same paradigm of echoing it - like Inzil or Glirdan (and even Rune, with what I mentioned above). Since it became a "fashion", I expect that now it is easier for the SoE to join this "fashion", and not support phantom any more. Which means, I am also watching those I mentioned above - mainly the first two, with Zil being a bit casual, which might have been just joining the flow, and Glirdy being a bit laid-back, which might have been so as not to be in the centre of attention but still agree with the majority.

Anyway, still there is a horde of people to see, so... looking forward to more.

EDIT: x-posted with Nogrod and onwards...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A practical note (as people don't normally read the admin. thread): My home internet connection died yesterday, so for now I'm dependent on any wireless internet connections for my laptop (basically my neighbourhood pub) and my school's computers during daytime.
Oh crap, some business for Hadanka pub, is it, then;)

I just have to say for Rune's vote, as far as it was indeed predictable (and especially if he has little time), it goes with the buttering-up stuff too. But again, probably any Rune would do that if he really is so happy about Lommy now - whether good or evil.

While Folwren also goes with the general anti-phantom opinion, she seems quite good to me on first sight - speaks reasonable and seems to speak out of her own mind (because she says something for example I said, but I assume she has not read that, given what she said about people who post long paraghraphs ;) ).

There was something funny about Nog's post, I think he sort of started somewhere and then lost the thread, because the thoughts do not seem to come to any conclusion there. But hope that he is still going to have some net connection for more posting...

[Glirdan]

But really Phantoblin, you will not vote for those who vote you for representative? First of all you contradict yourself as you insist on being bad at heart - wouldn't lynching those who trust you be the "baddie move" then? (actually you should have to break that promise as a representative for me to trust you...) Secondly: if you are on the orc side isn't your task to get rid of the elves whoever they are - even if they try to do you lip-service by voting you as a representative?

I'd like to focus more on your first point. We all know tp to be a devilishly sly bugger when it comes to this game. What really has me worried is that there are two possibilities with his will-not-vote-for-people-who-vote-me-as-rep situation. First, he's really an orc who is just being plain old, arrogant phantom and wants the power and glory (which is probably the case whether he's orc or SoE :rolleyes:) of having been made almighty representative and is trying to find a way to subtly oust the SoE's.

Second, he's really an SoE and doing the whole double-, triple-, quadruple- bluffing.

Either way, it's his way of initiating chaos as that's what phantom does best. And yet for some reason, we all go along with it like the good little sheep he expects us to be. I personally feel like leaving him alone for a little while. That doesn't mean I'll drop him completely off my radar (that would just be plain idiotic), but I do not think we should dwell on the infinite possible plans that are brewing inside his head.


btw I would happily be a representative my self. . . Power is nice.

I was just quickly skimming things when this jumped out at me. Something about it makes me uneasy about Rune.

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

[satansaloser2005]

I'm here for the sake of clarification only. I'm at work, and shouldn't be posting at all, but I wanted to clear this up for my pie.

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

No, dear, because the time to vote for representatives is only 24 hours. The first "half" of the Day is voting for reps, and the second "half" of the Day is the reps voting for who we shall lynch. Thus, we only have until tonight.


Also, glad to see that we stirred up discussion. I do so hate boring Day Ones. ;)


I have to log off now, sorry. I'll be able to read if I'm careful but I really don't like being on the site at the office. I'll be back in....six or seven hours, I'd say, though perhaps not. Either way, behave while I'm gone, and keep being pedantic. :p

[Folwren]

I would also like to mention that all three of the votes that have been cast make me very uneasy. I would understand them a little more and probably be less leery of them were it not for the fact that the Day's last for 48 hours. Why are you all casting your votes now? Will you have no internet access from now until tomorrow at 9pm EST?

We have to vote for our representatives today before 9 P.M. EST. Between that time and tomorrow 9 P.M. we discuss and tell the reps who to vote to lynch.

Legate, you're right - I didn't read your post. Sorry. I'll do that sometime today if I have time. I'm trying to juggle this game, my work, and my homework all at once. My work is fine, but this game and the homework is suffering miseably.

-- Folworc

X-posted with Sally.

[Boromir88]

To the lasses sally and Lottie. You two have basically surrendered whatever dignity you had left when you jumped at the vote phantom campaign. I need a representative with a backbone and you two clearly have none. On the plus side, to be led so easily like sheep by Big Boss suggests you don't want representative power, which leads to looking innocence. And it looks unintentional. You know the ones who are so modest with "No, no, no, I don't want that power" are the ones you have to be really careful about. They are so concerned with hiding their desire for power, they overcompensate with fake modesty. In sparknotes, yours and sally's unintentional "I don't have a spine, let me vote for someone who does" looks pretty innocent.

But really, phantom? If you wanted someone with some strength you could have gone with someone better. Phantom has a powerful facade behind his catchy slogans and elaborate 10,000 orc coins flashy signs, but in the end has no substance. All you have to do is stick him in with the Emperor's cat or a pretty butterfly and you will see his strength fail.

You know it is not absolute power which corrupts absolutely, it is not having absolute power and the desire for it which corrupts absolutely. And by continuing to deny phantom absolute power, we are only in the end making him more and more corrupt, to where he does more harm then good. But we won't recognize until he does have absolute power and we are powerless to stop him. These then are the options I see.

We can give him absolute power now, before he is corrupted by the desire for it, and in doing so we satisfy his ego and amusement. The pros to this is he actually does some good with his power. The negs, his ego can never be satisfied, only temporarily appeased, and when it's all said and done. Absolute power does corrupt absolutely.

We can have a foil representative who will balance his power and thus leaving the real decision to the other representatives. I would have no issues being phantom's foil, to have an equally strong personality that balances phantom's alpha personality. (Although, right now I think phantom would fear Lommy's wrath more than mine, so if I decide on this option, I think I'm a gonna vote Lommy for rep). The pros, whatever power phantom gets is always nullified and the fears of those who don't trust him are dealt with. The negs, this puts the decision and the biggest power in the hands of the other representatives, and honestly...that might actually be worse than giving phantom absolute power!

We can go with the other impossible that Lommy proposes and kill him. Pros, this looks like the most appealing and attractive offer at the moment. Negs, It would mean giving lots of power to Lommy, who's wrath if put in charge would scare me even more than phantom. Also, I wonder if she's got the confidence to follow through? :p

To Rune: make him work for it! You know how the system works now, these politicians don't need to do much work anymore to get elected, with the amount of precious metals and gems people hand them!

Edit: crossed with Glirdan, sally and Foley

[Glirdan]

No, dear, because the time to vote for representatives is only 24 hours. The first "half" of the Day is voting for reps, and the second "half" of the Day is the reps voting for who we shall lynch. Thus, we only have until tonight.


We have to vote for our representatives today before 9 P.M. EST. Between that time and tomorrow 9 P.M. we discuss and tell the reps who to vote to lynch.

Oh geez...I think that means it's time for me to hit the sack for a couple of hours before I go completely mental. :rolleyes: Thanks ladies.

EDIT:

Just saw this:


All you have to do is stick him in with the Emperor's cat or a pretty butterfly and you will see his strength fail.

BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Made my day!! :D Thank you!! :D

[Isabellkya]

Well, if he's good, I'll trust his judgement (for toDay, anyway). If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One. It's a win-win from my perspective, as he either is good and tries to do something helpful or he's evil and isn't dumb enough to do something horribly destructive....yet.

This does not make sense. Why would a baddie opt out of the opportunity to rid themselves of the seer?

I don't see why you are so quick to trust and defend Phantom, Loslote.

It seems to me that the impression of Phantom is that he wouldn't lie or manipulate as evil. Which makes no sense.

I don't mind seeing a lynch of Sally or Loslote toDay.

I'll make my Rep vote in a handful of hours, after work.

-----

All Things Livery:
50% Off Sale! ToDay only!
Livers - 2 bed rolls!


X'd with Glirdan.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, you're right - I didn't read your post. Sorry. I'll do that sometime today if I have time. I'm trying to juggle this game, my work, and my homework all at once. My work is fine, but this game and the homework is suffering miseably.
No problem, I am not offended, if you didn't have the focus for reading long posts, it is understandable. It does not matter when you read it, the only point is that it should be in your own best intention (if the village's good is in your best intention) to get as much information as possible so that you can make your decision the best you can... But I know a lot about busy days, so if you cannot read a lot, it's understandable. Although that said, I think this day's posting was actually quite short, this far - only two pages (not even full yet) - I have known a lot worse Day 1s.

Boro makes a good point (if I understood it correctly) about sally and Lottie, I am not sure what to make of his rather depressive scenarios concerning phantom.

And this I don't like at all, and I don't get it - at least I don't get it how can anyone post the first thought seriously:

We can give him absolute power now, before he is corrupted by the desire for it, and in doing so we satisfy his ego and amusement. The pros to this is he actually does some good with his power. The negs, his ego can never be satisfied, only temporarily appeased, and when it's all said and done. Absolute power does corrupt absolutely.

We can have a foil representative who will balance his power and thus leaving the real decision to the other representatives. I would have no issues being phantom's foil, to have an equally strong personality that balances phantom's alpha personality. (Although, right now I think phantom would fear Lommy's wrath more than mine, so if I decide on this option, I think I'm a gonna vote Lommy for rep). The pros, whatever power phantom gets is always nullified and the fears of those who don't trust him are dealt with. The negs, this puts the decision and the biggest power in the hands of the other representatives, and honestly...that might actually be worse than giving phantom absolute power!
The other thing I do not like is "the other representative could be ME, thank you". My initial thought was of a very bold Boroelf, even worse, Morgoth save us, he and phantom as two pals. But anyway, all of this does not make any sense, or I must have completely misunderstood it. I don't understand why you are counting with the fact that phantom is one representative who gets, apparently, according to your counting, half of the votes or something like that (or: at least more than just two he has now, apparently). What is it supposed to be? You say like all the dictators who come with the slogan of "balancing the power of the greater evil". I honestly totally dislike the way you put it, and like I said, it does not make any sense. My image was that we will all vote, we'll get let's say five representatives, some with one, some with two votes or something like that, and those will decide. You act as if we were counting with two representatives, which does not make any sense - if there were only two, then effectively the one of them who has more votes decides whom to lynch and it's done. Or, like I said, maybe I misunderstood you completely. Because this way it does not make any sense. At least I don't see half of the people voting phantom - not after what we saw now, with many people being against it.

We can go with the other impossible that Lommy proposes and kill him. Pros, this looks like the most appealing and attractive offer at the moment. Negs, It would mean giving lots of power to Lommy, who's wrath if put in charge would scare me even more than phantom. Also, I wonder if she's got the confidence to follow through? :p
About lynching phantom, I thought it was not meant seriously - I see no reason for lynching him. If you call it "most appealing and attractive offer", speak for yourself. If we don't want somebody for a representative, it does not mean we have to lynch him: things are not just black and white like that. Personally, I have this far no reason to do anything against tp, because all he has shown this far was hunger for power, which is absolutely normal for him whatever he is. Once he starts to become suspicious in some way, then I may start thinking of lynching him.

That said, I don't have a personal favourite for a representative yet, but I think I am starting to get at least some ideas of whom I am not going to make one... but lots of time to decide still.

EDIT: x-ed with Glirdy and Izzy

[A Little Green]

Not. Happening. I don't particularly think Fea and Nienna want their game hijacked.

As of right now, I'll probably give my vote to anyone (besides Phantom) who promises to try and get either Sally or Lottie lynched, because they're both pretty clearly trying to hide behind 'oh it's Day 1 I can do whatever I like and it won't matter'.I wouldn't put it that strongly, but it would be indeed easy for a SoE to make that exact move - vote phantom early on based on his phantomness. Easy excuse. I also found Lommy's idea interesting:
I don't honestly understand why anyone - innocent or guilty - would throw away their rep vote so carelessly for somebody whose alignment they have no idea of (probably). The fact that there were two of them makes me quite worried. It doesn't help at all that Sally is claiming to amuse the mod and Lottie said she's voting early because she won't be around later but she still made several posts after her vote. It's just utter stupidity. The only scenario that makes sense is that one of them is a wolf with phantom and uses his phantomness and excuse to make an easy rep vote for a fellow and the other girl is just using the opportunity to mess around for fun.This far I'd be more inclined to find some fur in Sally. Just the way she seems to openly attach herself to phantom as an ally. Especially in the following:
Phantom, darling, do right by me, okay?
And considering the following, a Sallywolf would be pretty safe with that strategy:
Oh, and I also thought I'd mention that anyone that votes me for rep is completely safe for that day. No lie.
I think at least that it's ridiculous to make this into a disgusting politics game where you make parties like "you give me your vote, I won't lynch-vote you" - it's not silly but also dangerous: it becomes a war of clans where one's party matters more than their true alignment, which we definitely don't want in a werewolf game.Lommy has a point here, I think. Still, it's more or less what's bound to happen, whether said aloud or not: a representative probably won't vote for the ones who elected him/her to power anyway, out of courtesy or just unconsciously, at least not unless there is really heavy evidence against one of the voters. Still, what a representative more or less instinctively ends up doing is entirely different from promising beforehand that "anyone who votes for me is safe".
No matter when I voted, there wouldn't have been any difference in how much there was to analyze.Perhaps not - but from your own perspective one could think that you would find a good decision easier to make after a bit more time for considering it..
And actually, we aren't bound to voting anyone for rep, I don't think, even though it's a power we should exercise. If one doesn't have time to wait and examine everyone before voting though, I think not voting is the better option, as long as one has a very good excuse for not doing so.This, actually, is a very good point. I hadn't realised that myself. Voting the wrong person for rep is loads more dangerous than refraining from voting.
Either he's working for the Orcish Folk or he's not, same as everyone else. He happens to be louder and less likely to be manipulated by the SoE. See, my thinking is it's about 25% chance he's evil normally, but for most people, I'd have to add between 5 to 10% chance of accidentally working for the SoE. TP does his own thing, not very influenced by manipulations - other than his promise not to vote for those he is representing, which doesn't bother me - as I am not a SoE, which lessens the chance of him voting for a true Orc. Since I don't have a chance to really look at people toDay, this is the least risky move I could make, in my mind.Now, I think you go too far here. What you've got to remember is that the fact that he's trying really hard to establish some kind of cult around himself doesn't mean he merits it more than anyone else does. Oh, he's sharp and all that, but there are other sharp and independed-minded people around here too and I don't like how little credit they get just because they don't make such a show of themselves.
But now let me sum up what I think of phantom's proposal, personally. From the above already you can see, phantom, that I am not so keen on supporting you straightaway. While the idea might be good if you are good, sorry, I mean evil; I am not too keen on voting you, mostly just for the sake of that I think there will be more people - possibly like sally and Loslote - who either for lack of time, lack of Day 1 imagination or even for SoE-ish hiding in bandwaggon reasons (as already Nerwen well noted, and I think it is a good possibility) - will give their vote to you, and given how the system works in this game (if I understood it correctly), that will give tp-representative's vote tremendous power, even if there are a few other Representatives, each with his pitiful one vote or something like that (and I know, it is obvious that you will enjoy using the quote "Poweeeer! Un-limited poweeeer!" once you get there). Again, I think it is safer for the SoE if the votes do not split too much here - if it becomes all deed only of one Phantom, then even if he were innocent (read: innocent of murdering Orcs, not of all other things), we get no real clues from the lynch aside from "the phantom did it right/wrong". So because of this, I think I will rather go for somebody else, to offer a decent competition.A bit related to this: the rep voting is one of our few ways of looking for concrete patterns in people's behaviour, and if everyone votes for the same person - or even one of two or three - finding these patterns becomes infinitely more difficult.


EDIT: x-ed since Sally's last

[Boromir88]

And this I don't like at all, and I don't get it - at least I don't get it how can anyone post the first thought seriously:


None of it was meant seriously in the sense that we must do one of these three things and it all involves tp. No one has to do anything about him, they can carry on business and ignore him entirely. The thing is, he makes it rather impossible to ignore, this is a fact I've come to accept over the years. So a sparknotes page of my post looks something like this...

Do I*

1. Help phantom get absolute power
2. Nullify his power by being an equal force that acts opposite of his desires
3. Remove his existance from this world

*Yes I used "we" that is because I always presume to be speaking for the conglomerate, but everyone should know they can do whatever they darn well please.

The 1-3 is more to be taken lightly to how when phantom's dishonoured everyone by his very presense, no matter what we do, he's going to be the attention. And I remain futilely optimistic about one day this not being the case.

What can be taken from it though, is I will unleash war upon phantom (or vote for people who will do it with me) if he tries something entirely unreasonable. Which counter to Lottie's own high-esteemed opinion of him, he is very capable of doing.

Edit: crossed with Greenie

[Boromir88]

Oh and before I go for lunch and duties...


BAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Made my day!! :D Thank you!! :D

*bows* Glad I could make someone's day...I'm a dead orc walking for that! :p

[the phantom]

But I would like to ask, how am I supposed to play since TP already used half of the good quotes before I even had the chance.
Ha ha, yes, the first quote I thought of without prompting and decided to use it, but once I started typing I recalled that you had been heavy with SW quotes last time and so I resolved to use a couple more just because of that. I wondered if you'd be amused or if you'd be angry that I'd stolen your show.
While having a topic to start with is better than bumping in the dark (sic), and I am sure it makes TP happy to have all the Day for himself, not sure if the way things have been focused on is the best to do it. But at the same time, it is at least a good topic for the start - and with such a topic, the way of people's behavior might nicely begin to show in people's reactions
Exactly! You know all of the old complaints about Day 1, and generally I always try and do something or other on the first day to prod discussion. I'd say it's working to some extent, in the sense that there are posts that say something other than, "Um, I'm here". I even got the vote train rolling, which is of course about the most important thing we'll be looking at in this contest.
Okay, this is the one thing I really dislike - that's basically blackmail. It effectively means that "if you don't vote me, look, look, everyone else will do it, and then I will lynch you, because you will be the last remaining one".
You've hit the nail on the head. That was exactly what I was trying to do. But unfortunately bunches of people rushed in to negate it, and so the ploy has most definitely lost its effectiveness. Basically, I was wondering if any Sons of Elrond could be bullied out of fear into voting for me. Playing the odds, you know? "Phantom may gain a hail of votes, and he says he won't vote for his people, so if my buddies and I don't vote for him the liklihood of us being lynched is going to increase dramatically!"

(more responses to follow)

[Folwren]

The following thought occured to me:

This whole representatives thing can be very revealing about who people are because from my point of view, there are only a few types of people who would try to get elected.

1. An elf or elf-friend, so that they could turn suspicion away from itself and its companions.

2. A loud humbug orc who only wants attention...and who thinks he might actually be able to do some good for our underground village.

3. The seer, so that he actually CAN do some good with his knowledge.

I think this because, being an ordinary person, it occurred to me that trying to get voted into a representatives place would put undue suspicion and attention on my humble person, therefore I'd jolly well better not try. If I were an elf, I might be more likely to attempt it. They have everything to lose, and everything to win, if you think about it, and who's going to suspect a bold stroke in broad wake-time?

The only thing that I think would induce me or another innocent into attempting to become a representative would be to gain power and attention and to actually think we could help the village by our intuition.

The seer on the other hand would be perfect to be in a representative's place. However, the blessed seer has the problem that if he is too open, the Elves will catch onto him and kill him during the sleep-time. Therefore, he cannot be open in his hints...in fact, he might not even be able to openly run for representative. But he still might try to get there.

So........that being said, I now see that it's rather weak. But at least it was a thought. I think it's worth considering when we look at the people vying for representative position.

Cross posted with M. Phantom.

[Glirdan]

*bows* Glad I could make someone's day...I'm a dead orc walking for that!

So true :rolleyes:

EDIT: X-ed with Foley

[the phantom]

Lommy- your reaction is completely silly.
I really can't think of anything more stupid than carelessly giving your rep vote away in the beginning of the Day to vote some guy with terribly inflated ego just because he loves the attention.
I don't honestly understand why anyone - innocent or guilty - would throw away their rep vote so carelessly for somebody whose alignment they have no idea of (probably).
Raise your hand if you know precisely who is a true orc and thus deserving of your vote. :rolleyes:

Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make. Voting for me is no different than voting for anyone else, other than the fact that I am more likely than most to show up and vote and be vocal and vote according to a plan.

You do recall the last time we had one of these rep games, don't you? Given my track record, I'm the most sane voting choice there is.
Right. Isn't it better to hold off and see what everyone has to say before making such an important decision? And actually, we aren't bound to voting anyone for rep, I don't think, even though it's a power we should exercise. If one doesn't have time to wait and examine everyone before voting though, I think not voting is the better option, as long as one has a very good excuse for not doing so.
You agreed way too quickly to something that is not nearly so clear cut as you put forth, and your suggestion of not voting, well... I really don't like it. If all the SoE are voting for each other, encouraging others to sit on their votes would be a great way to gain larger sway over the lynch.

[A Little Green]

Boro - Hmm. An enigma, for the time being.
Foley - Can't form an opinion yet.
Glirdy - No read this far.
Izzy - Can't form an opinion yet.
Legate - Seems reasonable this far.
Lommy - Feels genuine, if only for her outburst about the phantom-voters. Not sure if I want to vote her for rep though.
Lottie - Not comfortable with her. I would hazard to guess either she or Sally is a SoE, but at the moment I'm moer inclined to believe it's Sally.
Nerwen - I feel OK about her at the moment, might vote her for rep actually.
Nog - Can't form an opinion yet.
Phantom - Hasn't really said much, has he? Or rather, when trying to think about the exact things he's said I couldn't come up with much anything (apart from arguing about good and evil and trying to get people to vote him for rep).
Rune - Of the little I've seen of him I'm more inclined to find him innocent. Could be wrong, though.
Sally - The one I'm feeling worst about. I think I stated reasons in my previous post.
Shasta - Feels genuine in his phantom-frustration - and then again, a Shastaelf would probably be frustrated by phantom too (be it phantomelf or phantomorc). Eurgh, I just started considering the possibility of the two of them being elves together. Not something I'd like to see.
Zil- I never can read him, but so far I'm at least not alarmed.

Not seen yet:
Celuien
Kath
Mira
Steve
Vanilwa

EDIT: Wow, x-ed with Boro, phantom, Folwren, Glirdan and phantom

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

None of it was meant seriously in the sense that we must do one of these three things and it all involves tp. No one has to do anything about him, they can carry on business and ignore him entirely. The thing is, he makes it rather impossible to ignore, this is a fact I've come to accept over the years. So a sparknotes page of my post looks something like this...

Do I*

1. Help phantom get absolute power
2. Nullify his power by being an equal force that acts opposite of his desires
3. Remove his existance from this world

*Yes I used "we" that is because I always presume to be speaking for the conglomerate, but everyone should know they can do whatever they darn well please.

The 1-3 is more to be taken lightly to how when phantom's dishonoured everyone by his very presense, no matter what we do, he's going to be the attention. And I remain futilely optimistic about one day this not being the case.

Okay, Boro, I understand you now, but still I think you are creating some unnecessary polarisation here. I don't see why phantom - at least in the case he is innocent - could not behave during the game like any normal person, or, well, like phantom, but not with some "eternal hunger for power". I played several games with him where he actually acted reasonably, as much it can be said. But in any case, even if he acted like you say, at most he will be one fool among many other representatives (unless all other people go completely mad or start acting like you) - that is the advantage of democracy. Unless you manage to brainwash people that it is "A or B, nothing else" (in this sense, perhaps "phantom or us"), there will be lots of decent representatives among which one foolish phantom will get lost. And if he acts really totally badly, then he eventually won't get any votes at all. That's one of the advantages of democracy as well. If he becomes a problem, then I will start solving it, but this far, like I said, I don't see him neither suspicious nor dangerous: at least not until he starts getting more votes, then perhaps he will be. But you are making him the centre of attention yourself, where he has gotten two votes - okay, enough, but still not that much.

EDIT: x-ed with the very phantom, Folwren and others...

[the phantom]

I am not evil! I am just a very serious case of negative social inheritance!
If you're not evil, I can only assume you're a SoE. Is that what you're saying?
Lommy I really like. She is annoyed, bitter and straightforward, very unusual for her and I like it. It is like we have a new and improved Lommy.
What are you talking about? Lommy is like that all the time. Or at least she is any time I'm around. (There may be a connection there.)
But really Phantoblin, you will not vote for those who vote you for representative? First of all you contradict yourself as you insist on being bad at heart - wouldn't lynching those who trust you be the "baddie move" then? (actually you should have to break that promise as a representative for me to trust you...) Secondly: if you are on the orc side isn't your task to get rid of the elves whoever they are - even if they try to do you lip-service by voting you as a representative?
Oh, I'm quite aware of the game I'm playing. And if they decide to play it, the better for me, as I like my chances of spotting them better when they're forced to play my game. ;)
I don't trust Phantoblin. I think he's a sneaky liar. I know that some stuff he said was certainly in jest, but if he really wants EVERYBODY to vote for him, how is he going to keep his promise of not voting to kill any of his supporters? And what if only one or two people don't vote for him? Are they automatically guilty? Stuff and nonsense.
The only way to find out what I'd do in that situation is to make it happen, m'dear. Aren't you curious? Oh, and I think it goes without saying that I knew good and well not everyone would vote for me. I can always count on Lommy for things like that.
I could also remark that I find it funny, though, how since several of the posts which pointed out the danger of having all votes for phantom, and especially after Lommy's rather strongly frustrated post, the "public thinking" sort of shifted towards the same paradigm of echoing it - like Inzil or Glirdan (and even Rune, with what I mentioned above). Since it became a "fashion", I expect that now it is easier for the SoE to join this "fashion", and not support phantom any more.
Yes, yes, this is exactly the sort of thing I try to create in stirring the pot! Behaviors to look for etc. My primary regret at this point was that there were fewer supporters around early on to give this thing more steam so as to make reactions more pronounced when the tide turned.

[A Little Green]

I even got the vote train rolling, which is of course about the most important thing we'll be looking at in this contest.Er.. No you didn't. The vote train went rolling before you even showed up.
Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make.I'd be inclined to believe that Lommy knows that no one knows the others' alignment as yet. She was probably referring to Sally and Lottie rep-voting before anything had happened ie. when they had even no inkling as to what your role could be - and that, I think, is a rather valid point. If we go on voting based on people's general character instead of how innocent/guilty they seem in this particular game, it's an easy victory for the SoE. Just saying.


EDIT: x-ed with phantom

[Folwren]

Lommy- your reaction is completely silly.

Raise your hand if you know precisely who is a true orc and thus deserving of your vote. :rolleyes:

Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make. Voting for me is no different than voting for anyone else, other than the fact that I am more likely than most to show up and vote and be vocal and vote according to a plan.

It's not a meaningless comment. She's right. At least Sally threw her vote to you directly without hearing anything from anybody else. In Day 1 there are definitely ways to get ideas or hunches about people, and she didn't even wait for that. You and Sally treat Day 1 as though it were a perfect waste, and Lommy treats it as though it were not, and you bash her for it. Sir, we may all be 'evil orcs' but I'm getting a feeling that you're more evil than the rest of us, because you're willing to trample on people and their ideas.

agreed way too quickly to something that is not nearly so clear cut as you put forth, and your suggestion of [i]not voting, well... I really don't like it. If all the SoE are voting for each other, encouraging others to sit on their votes would be a great way to gain larger sway over the lynch.

But it IS clear-cut, Phantom. People should wait and let their ignorance be enlightened if at all possible before voting.
And he IS right about not voting in ignorance. Absolutely he's right. To not vote is idiotic, but to vote blindly and out of ignorance is even worse.

--

Ex-posted with Greenie, Phantom, and Legate.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I am going to correct my statements from above a bit - he is back and he is somewhat annoying. But okay, whatever. My decision now is more like, this is about the good way, phantom has some votes, so he can be a rep, why not, as long as there are several others to balance him - in Czech we have the proverb "the wolf had its meal but the goat remained whole", which is the optimal state of things. I am probably really not voting him, and I think the votes he has now are about okay amount.

Ha ha, yes, the first quote I thought of without prompting and decided to use it, but once I started typing I recalled that you had been heavy with SW quotes last time and so I resolved to use a couple more just because of that. I wondered if you'd be amused or if you'd be angry that I'd stolen your show.

No worry. It was amusing, the only downside was that I couldn't use them, but I can live with it.

EDIT: x-ed with Greenie and Foley

[the phantom]

To the lasses sally and Lottie. You two have basically surrendered whatever dignity you had left when you jumped at the vote phantom campaign.
You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day. And also, it fed in nicely to the underlying motive which was simply to create discussion and get the ball rolling.

And your whole power speech is bunk as well, since you know good and well what sort of chap I truly am when it comes to these sorts of things. I'm in this to win. Desire for acclaim or power has never clouded my judgement when there was an actual decision to be made.

I'm uncertain of what you're trying to accomplish. Do you wish to keep me in the attractive lynch category without actually accusing, but rather make it look somehow like a logical option to lynch me? That's a typical elf trick. "You'll see I didn't actually suspect him, but he was the logical choice! Don't blame me!"

[A Little Green]

To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day.Erm.. understanding? Could you elaborate, please: how does it show understanding to make a rep vote in the first few posts of the Day, before anything has been said and before you can have any legitimate opinions on anyone's guilt/innocence (unless you really can't be around later, which doesn't seem to have been the case with either Sally or Lottie)?

[Inziladun]

Very pressed for time, but a few quick things:

I don't trust Phantoblin. I think he's a sneaky liar. I know that some stuff he said was certainly in jest, but if he really wants EVERYBODY to vote for him, how is he going to keep his promise of not voting to kill any of his supporters? And what if only one or two people don't vote for him? Are they automatically guilty? Stuff and nonsense.

I don't know about a 'sneaky liar', but the mere fact of being the phantom merits distrust for him.

To the lasses sally and Lottie. You two have basically surrendered whatever dignity you had left when you jumped at the vote phantom campaign. I need a representative with a backbone and you two clearly have none. On the plus side, to be led so easily like sheep by Big Boss suggests you don't want representative power, which leads to looking innocence. And it looks unintentional. You know the ones who are so modest with "No, no, no, I don't want that power" are the ones you have to be really careful about. They are so concerned with hiding their desire for power, they overcompensate with fake modesty. In sparknotes, yours and sally's unintentional "I don't have a spine, let me vote for someone who does" looks pretty innocent.

This is pretty sensible. Boro for rep? Hmm.


About lynching phantom, I thought it was not meant seriously - I see no reason for lynching him. If you call it "most appealing and attractive offer", speak for yourself. If we don't want somebody for a representative, it does not mean we have to lynch him: things are not just black and white like that. Personally, I have this far no reason to do anything against tp, because all he has shown this far was hunger for power, which is absolutely normal for him whatever he is. Once he starts to become suspicious in some way, then I may start thinking of lynching him.

This is a good point as well. I don't really think tp should be lynched just for his actics, which certainly have an ulterior motive. Whether that motive is evil or good though is the unknown. I just don't want him, or anyone, having a disproportionate slice of power.


You agreed way too quickly to something that is not nearly so clear cut as you put forth, and your suggestion of not voting, well... I really don't like it. If all the SoE are voting for each other, encouraging others to sit on their votes would be a great way to gain larger sway over the lynch.

I didn't suggest not voting as a practice, but I find it preferable to making a random one without examining as many people as possible. And I also said anyone not voting should be held accountable and made to explain.

[the phantom]

I'd be inclined to believe that Lommy knows that no one knows the others' alignment as yet. She was probably referring to Sally and Lottie rep-voting before anything had happened ie. when they had even no inkling as to what your role could be
It's not a meaningless comment. She's right. At least Sally threw her vote to you directly without hearing anything from anybody else. In Day 1 there are definitely ways to get ideas or hunches about people, and she didn't even wait for that.
But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

So, you want people to wait and not do anything until they have a hunch, but how can anyone get a hunch if no one has done anything yet? Have I explained properly where I'm coming from here?

On Day 1 in particular, some people have to just take a flying leap and do something! And in a game like this especially, as it's not completely a tragedy to accidentally vote for a SoE early anyway, as it would be instructive to see what he does with the power you give him. Not to mention the fact that the SoE wish to control the vote, and so it's completely possible that they will look like the best candidates if you wait around!! Meaning that your best chance of not voting for a SoE is to vote completely on a random whim and let the simple percentages dictate if you're right or not!

(x-post with a few- Greenie, your last post I basically address in this post, the "understanding" being that perhaps Sally and Lottie know that maybe they should just take a leap)

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so I *was* reading everything, but then I started to space out and began skimming a bit so that I could post before I get too distracted (those videos didn't help). But I think I got the basic idea of what's going on.

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power. Well I don't like the idea of just a couple people having a lot of power (and maybe a couple amoung them having even more). I'd rather have half the people have all the same amount of power. That gives us more stuff to analyse, and makes it harder for the SoE to get too much power (unless, like all 4 of them get voted as representative, but at least if they don't have more pull than the other reps it wouldn't be so bad). Did that make any sense?

Anyway, my point. Phantom is a rep now, nobody else vote for him. These caves are small enough already, I'd rather not have his ego take up even more room.

So then for the rest of this half of the Day, once someone has 2 votes nobody else should vote for them, that way about half the (what do you call a group of Orcs? A clan of orcs? A gaggle of orcs? A grunt of orcs?), uhm, half the 'village' will be representatives, and it will make the voting process much more interesting, rather than have like 5 people with various amounts of power, that makes me uneasy. Does that seem fair, or am I missing something (like I said, never played a rep game before).

I'm going to go eat something to kick start my brain back up and I'll come back when I'm in better control of my attention span. *sees a butterfly, chases after it*

*runs back for a second* Oh, and this:

All you have to do is stick him in with the Emperor's cat or a pretty butterfly and you will see his strength fail.

I might vote Boro as rep just for saying this. ;)

x'ed with this whole page

[Nogrod]

Back and reading... just thought that this is important enough to say right now in plain terms.

We need a lot of representatives: not one, not two or three!

I'd almost venture as far as to say the more we have the better. The representatives need to make the decisions for lynching people and if we have only a few there's little to read. So let's not get carried away with this "who votes for who" as a representative, but how do we get enough reps for us to read later on.

And remember, many wolves might also wish to stay out of the fray and not want to get elected as the reps will receive the toughest scrutiny on D2.

Just saying.

[Nogrod]

Done reading...

Hehe. I can see Wilwa making basically the exact same point I did. And I like her suggestion of making a deal we stop voting someone on two votes to ensure we have enough representatives.

Let's also pick some of those who do not seem to wish to become one.

[Nogrod]

Not to mention the fact that the SoE wish to control the vote, and so it's completely possible that they will look like the best candidates if you wait around!! Meaning that your best chance of not voting for a SoE is to vote completely on a random whim and let the simple percentages dictate if you're right or not!I do think we'd like to see the SoE's as representatives at least at the early stages of the game - not so much so in the decisive Day when we either win or lose, naturally.

I don't remember how exactly the last representatives-game went (and have no time to go and check - someone with a lot of time in hands could actually do that), but I can predict that the representatives will be under the looking-glass on D2 and it will require some really odd things to happen if the next lynch is on someone who was not a representative toDay.

Also I do disagree with the SoE's overpowering craving for power to "steer the lynch", especially early on. Unless they are really in trouble (and that probably doesn't even spell having one of them in trouble on D1), they have no wish to "steer the lynch" just for the sake of doing it. Well some personalities might wish to but, but they'd wish to do it whatever their role... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Triple posting... hey, where are you when I have time? I'll be back in a while.

[Folwren]

I can predict that the representatives will be under the looking-glass on D2 and it will require some really odd things to happen if the next lynch is on someone who was not a representative toDay.

Ha! Excellent way to make people excited about becoming a rep! "Be a Rep - increase your odds of dying tomorrow!"

[the phantom]

My thinking, Nog, is that the SoE may as well steer the lynch, as people are just as likely to suspect them if they don't (the whole bluff/double-bluff thing). I mean, why not vote each other as rep a good bit? It'd give them more lynch control, and they wouldn't necessarily be caught at it as many would pass it off as "too obvious".

[Folwren]

Also I do disagree with the SoE's overpowering craving for power to "steer the lynch", especially early on. Unless they are really in trouble (and that probably doesn't even spell having one of them in trouble on D1), they have no wish to "steer the lynch" just for the sake of doing it. Well some personalities might wish to but, but they'd wish to do it whatever their role... :rolleyes:

I see your point. I just put it out because I think that's how I would behave were I an opponent to the village. I wanted to give people my perspective on the candidates. :) I'm very ignorant, though, all in all, as to people's behavior.

Ex-posted with the most hightly esteemed Phantom.

[A Little Green]

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

So, you want people to wait and not do anything until they have a hunch, but how can anyone get a hunch if no one has done anything yet? Have I explained properly where I'm coming from here?First thing: I don't like your cynicism, mister. Like, if our chances of succeeding in spotting an elf on Day 1 are slim, we shouldn't try at all, or what? Second thing: I did not advice anyone to not vote, I just want to advice everyone to vote with care! Voting is the only means we have of winning this game, and I'd prefer to see it used well. Third thing: surely you are not suggesting that the only thing we can read something from is a vote? One can get a leaning on people's alignments from a load of other things than their votes! I agree that Sally and Lottie did stir up the discussion, but their votes were still not reasonable.

[wilwarin538]

it will require some really odd things to happen if the next lynch is on someone who was not a representative toDay.



Well, that's interesting. Than perhaps the SoE will not want to be reps, maybe it'll bring too much attention to them, while non-reps can just glide on by. But then again of course they want to be reps, that gives them power, which the Elvies wants. So....my point? I think we need a good balance of out-spoken people, and quiet people to be reps. Especially quiet people, force them to talk since they'll have the extra obligation, that could limit the chance at having too many 'under the reindeers'.

I'm choosing to not talk about the Puddingtom to the extent that everyone else is, because Day 1s are always about him :p. I don't like Sallycakes and Lottiepop's votes, because they really seem like throwaways and should have gone to someone they atleast semi-trust, and they both showed up later, so they didn't *have* to vote early. But at the same time it didn't surprise me, cause they enjoy doing crazy things (they will not be receiving rep votes from me though, I don't want them just tossing their precious lynch votes around like jelly beans). I hearts Lommy's first post, and I feel quite good about Legate, Boro and Nog at the moment.

I need to get *some* homework done while I'm still feeling attentive. Then I'll be back.

edit: x'ed with Greenie, who I also feel ok with, and added name-bolding

edit 2: the word 'throwaways' there isn't what I was trying to say, I meant more like random or thoughtless

[A Little Green]

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Looks like it's my bedtime now, and since the deadline is 4 AM my time I won't wake up to vote then.. So I'll vote

++ Nerwen for rep

Because she is independent-minded and clever and if she's innocent she can do a lot of good in that position - and if she isn't, a Nerwelf is, in general, such a sly case that forcing her into the spotlight wouldn't be such a bad idea.

See you all on the second half of the Day! My participation will, in all probability, be quite crappy since I have an insanely busy day tomorrow, but I'll do my best.


EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa, who continues making sense.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power. Well I don't like the idea of just a couple people having a lot of power (and maybe a couple amoung them having even more). I'd rather have half the people have all the same amount of power. That gives us more stuff to analyse, and makes it harder for the SoE to get too much power (unless, like all 4 of them get voted as representative, but at least if they don't have more pull than the other reps it wouldn't be so bad). Did that make any sense?
Definitely good idea, except for one remark perhaps - at least if people are voting close to DL, there is the possibility of some crossposting, so somebody might actually get more votes in the mess. But I think generally the guideline is good, and unless the SoE misuse this mess completely to push in more power for somebody, then okay (but then again, even they could not do it unsuspiciously).

And remember, many wolves might also wish to stay out of the fray and not want to get elected as the reps will receive the toughest scrutiny on D2.
That may be actually true, especially given that it is their votes which are going to be analysed probably the most in the end. Although of course, it depends, and what phantom says, holds too:

My thinking, Nog, is that the SoE may as well steer the lynch, as people are just as likely to suspect them if they don't (the whole bluff/double-bluff thing). I mean, why not vote each other as rep a good bit? It'd give them more lynch control, and they wouldn't necessarily be caught at it as many would pass it off as "too obvious".

I think both are true to a certain extent. It would probably depend on the particular SoE, what they do. If there are some really strong personalities, they can go for the Rep even of their own initiative, with the hope to sway the votes. But then, flying under the radar is another well-known tactic. I think it is equally likely to meet both - we'd have to see from future actions of the SoE in the game.

EDIT: x-ed with Wilwa and Greenie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Eurgh? I assumed it was some inside US-Downers' joke, but it would have never occured to me that it would have something to do with me. ??? Okay, whatever...

[Mirandir]

So... I read like a page and a half. Now have to go to a meeting, class, and work. Am grumpy about this fact. Would like to know what's in it for me if vote phantom for rep. Read more at work and hopefully make legitimate contribution.

[the phantom]

As far as the Emperor's cat comment, I think it was a reference to me generally disliking cats and being allergic to them.
Would like to know what's in it for me if vote phantom for rep.
Um... Let's see here... How about this? I shall purchase a Dallas Cowboys shirt and make a regular habit of going to Wild Wings during their games and loudly supporting them. Oh, and have I mentioned how pretty you are?

Greenie, in response to post #93-
No, no, by all means, give it an effort. My cynicism is not meant to discourage effort. Rather I'm saying it's not proper to be too upset with those that try something a bit different on the first day, as that is exactly the time to do so. It serves a purpose and may turn out being a better vote than many cast at the deadline.

By in large I'm saying that jumping on Sally and Lottie for their votes is far too easy, and ignoring the time in the game at which we stand and the various strategies that are viable at this stage. As someone else agreed with me earlier, it actually would not be a disaster to vote incorrectly at this point anyway, so it doesn't matter at all that the girls didn't have suspicions when they voted. Not to mention that suspicions will be weakest at this point anyway even were they allowed time to form. Also how would early suspicions form without early action provided by the votes that people are criticizing? No, votes aren't the only source of suspicion, but the other sources draw directly from votes (reactions to votes), and so votes can be said to be the ultimate source for nearly everything since much discussion is about votes. And then of course the late-day suspicions of "responsible" voters could well prove wrong (they're likely to in fact), so really what's the difference?

People are making far too big a deal about something that isn't bad at all when you place it correctly in context.

Anyway- I'm off for a bit.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So I think I should slowly start deciding about my vote for the representative. Let me see...

Boro - okay, but slightly weird with some of his opinions, I don't like his radicalism so much. If I want an opponent for the phantom, Lommy, who has already one vote, is enough, and Boro said something like that he wanted to vote her, which is fine by me
Celuien - not seen her around?
Foley - looks sensible, looks innocent, unless she is really so sly as to fly under the radar, but somehow I can't imagine it very easily. Not sure if she wants to be a Rep, if it came to that, she could get my vote, on the other hand, if she is somewhat busy or whatever, not sure if she will have as much insight as for me to vote her.
Glirdy - rather in the bacgkround. Actually, if somebody is under the radar, it is him. Might vote him for Rep just for the sake of that, to sort of bring him to the light, but then again, I'd prefer to vote somebody I trust more. Hmm... although... if I wanted to get more info about him... I'll think about it.
Greenie - actually seemed reasonable, around and seeing into things; might be one option
Izzy - very little to work with, though seemed sensible - might be one option if she shows more
Kath - nothing
Legate - that's me, that's me...
Lommy - see Boro. I probably will not vote her myself, as I think also that quite likely somebody else might vote her (like Boro) and she already has one vote.
Lottie - nope, she is a questionmark with the phantom-support and not seeming to be very much around anyway
Mira - nothing to work with this far
Nerwen - had posted some reasonable stuff in the beginning, has one vote already, might be an option, although I would probably prefer to read more from her before I'd do that
Nog - with his somewhat lessened participation not sure if I want to entrust him with the task, although on the other hand, with what he kept saying about the SoEs not wanting to become elected, it would be interesting if he was one of them and... okay, but probably not voting him. I get very little reading on him (while, again, that might also be a reason to vote him...)
Phantom - no. Said that before.
Rune - nothing particular against, but there is still the "buttering up" possibility. I don't feel like voting him much.
Sally - like Lottie, at most might be good for experiment, but not really wishing to vote her, especially if she is barely around.
Shasta - hmm... actually no real knowledge this far...
Steve - was he?
Vanilwa - had a few good points, might be one of the candidates
Zil - very random for voting, also see Glirdy.

So there would be several options - will think of them and see also what happens here, if anything new that will help me decide.

[Eönwë]

So, I was trying to read everything posted before I did, but it seems like I'm trying to climb to the top of an ever-growing mountain.

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.
That would be like holding the record for the longest jump on the Moon- totally irrelevant. In fact, let's make it a Day 1 first and totally ignore phantom for a whole Day... well, actually, it's too late for that now that he's been voted in, but we should've.

TP does his own thing, not very influenced by manipulations - other than his promise not to vote for those he is representing, which doesn't bother me - as I am not a SoE, which lessens the chance of him voting for a true Orc. Since I don't have a chance to really look at people toDay, this is the least risky move I could make, in my mind.


Well, he only made that promise after you voted for him. Innocent mistake or a sneaky Elvish excuse for justifying voting phantom?

If tp was the Undecided Orc, he'd never have decided already. Surely you remember the game where he was Zeus, and killed his own Seer to even out the game? If he were the Undecided Orc, he would not decided instantly to align himself with the SoE, he'd choose whichever side was doing worst at the time when he had to choose.
If he acted (even remotely) consistently (other than attention-seeking, of course), he wouldn't be the phantom. Or of course, he could double bluff and just be hinting to the Sons of Elrond that he's the Undecided so that they don't kill him (yet). Or he could begin pretending to hint to them to save himself. Or... well... there's too many possibilities. We'll just have to see what happens.

I must also say, there is one thing - if everybody unisono voted phantom, there will be lot less clues as well.
I agree with you about it being a bad idea, but you can't deny that it would be quite interesting.

Hearts
"Hearts"? What are we, Elves? *Punches playfully in the face*

And I don't like the fact that we have 48 hours each Day. It tends to make people (myself included of course) lazy instead of enthusiastic to use the extra time for finding wolves.
It's true. People seem to tend to lose steam about half way through the second half of the Day.

Right. Isn't it better to hold off and see what everyone has to say before making such an important decision? And actually, we aren't bound to voting anyone for rep, I don't think, even though it's a power we should exercise. If one doesn't have time to wait and examine everyone before voting though, I think not voting is the better option, as long as one has a very good excuse for not doing so.
Definitely. This makes Inzil look good. Though, on the other hand, few votes means that the Elves can monopolise the voting.

Wolves? They're our friends!
Have you ever spoken to an angry wolf?

Well there's half of the SoE right there. That's a clear hint. Clear. ;)
It would be quite funny if they were just playing with us like that, wouldn't it?

I agree with this, yet at the same time, it gives people more of a chance to vote thus eliminating the "I didn't have time to vote" excuse. If this ever happens, then we at least have something to look at.

Really? We just get 24 hours as usual. Of course, the "I didn't have time to read the thread so I won't comment at all" excuse is more likely to disappear.

Also, an interesting thing would be to see what happens if the Undecided becomes a Rep toDay... er... toOrcWakingCycle.

[Nogrod]

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

So for me it comes down to deciding whether to vote for someone I tend to trust a little, who is loud and enigmatic, who is very careful, who is hiding in the shadows...

I think you will take care enough loudmouths get to be elected so I'll start a new trend then.

++ Izzy for representative

She is very good and I always have hard times reading her. I'd like to see her contribute more, already at this stage of the game and not only when the numbers have dwindled.

See you on the latter half of the Day. Be sure to elect enough representatives!


X'd with Leg & Steve

[Mirandir]

Um... Let's see here... How about this? I shall purchase a Dallas Cowboys shirt and make a regular habit of going to Wild Wings during their games and loudly supporting them. Oh, and have I mentioned how pretty you are?

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.

++phantom for rep

[Nogrod]

Boro
...
If I want an opponent for the phantom, Lommy, who has already one vote, is enoughLet's not keep up this "representatives are tp and the force to counterbalance him" -stuff any more.

Let's see tp being one of the many representatives where his power is like one sixth or seventh of the total - and that's it. Please.


EDIT: x'd with Mira... *bangs head to the desk and cuts the power off from the computer frustrated*

[Folwren]

Really, Mirandir? Did you really not do any reading before voting for Phantom? Weren't you paying attention? Guess not. Phantom, I'm curious - are you going to be at all flattered when you become a rep only because people voted for you without thinking?

I'm about to head home...won't have internet for a few hours...then I'll get it again briefly when I go to my folks' place for dinner and some evening stuff.

I am still leaning towards voting for Nerwen.

[Boromir88]

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?


Nothing to do with Legate, just having fun banter whilst throwing a couple sneaky punches. "Sauron's pet = Shelob" phantom said Palpatine was the "apple of the Great Eye," and "Emperor's cat" = I'm saying underneath that dark cloak phantom is mostly talk, and when it comes to cats you will see his weaknesses.

Think of it as a smear campaign paid for by the "Committee to not let phantom get elected. Treasurer: Shasta"

So I think I should slowly start deciding about my vote for the representative. Let me see...

Boro - okay, but slightly weird with some of his opinions, I don't like his radicalism so much. If I want an opponent for the phantom, Lommy, who has already one vote, is enough, and Boro said something like that he wanted to vote her, which is fine by me

Go hard or go home. That's my motto. :D


I'm uncertain of what you're trying to accomplish. Do you wish to keep me in the attractive lynch category without actually accusing, but rather make it look somehow like a logical option to lynch me? That's a typical elf trick. "You'll see I didn't actually suspect him, but he was the logical choice! Don't blame me!"

By your own admission you've never been lynched, so you would never be a real logical option, would you not agree? But the bigger question what am I trying to accomplish? The chance to be the first one to ever lynch the phantom is too enticing to resist. It's probably a fruitless and wasted endeavor completely, as apparently lynching you is impossible...but never the less, I do not back down from the impossible challenge.

Vote me for rep...I'll vote to lynch phantom. No lie. :D

Oh and parting shot, SoE = Sons of.....EEEEEEEEvil.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Steve

[Eönwë]

I need a representative with a backbone and you two clearly have none.
You can have some of this one *hands Boro a few scattered vertebrae*

On the plus side, to be led so easily like sheep by Big Boss suggests you don't want representative power, which leads to looking innocence. And it looks unintentional. You know the ones who are so modest with "No, no, no, I don't want that power" are the ones you have to be really careful about. They are so concerned with hiding their desire for power, they overcompensate with fake modesty. In sparknotes, yours and sally's unintentional "I don't have a spine, let me vote for someone who does" looks pretty innocent.

But really, phantom? If you wanted someone with some strength you could have gone with someone better. Phantom has a powerful facade behind his catchy slogans and elaborate 10,000 orc coins flashy signs, but in the end has no substance. All you have to do is stick him in with the Emperor's cat or a pretty butterfly and you will see his strength fail.

You know it is not absolute power which corrupts absolutely, it is not having absolute power and the desire for it which corrupts absolutely. And by continuing to deny phantom absolute power, we are only in the end making him more and more corrupt, to where he does more harm then good. But we won't recognize until he does have absolute power and we are powerless to stop him.

I don't like this at all. All this talk about power makes you seem like you're trying to sh

These then are the options I see.
And what about the other options? For example, not basing our Day around the phantom and actually trying to catch some elves. Isn't that what we're trying to do? It's much too early to be turning this into a power-contest, especially since all of us (save five) know nothing, and really have nothing to base anything on.

Also, you speak as if the phantom is on his own team, and, while it is true that it might seem as such, in the end he will b helping one team to win. All this talk of "appeasing" him is pointless- we shouldn't have to bribe him onto our side. If he's an Elf, then he'll just be pretending to be, and if he's an orc then he already should be. And if it's power he wants, he should be the one that has to work to convince us of his innocence.

And finally, this:
We can have a foil representative who will balance his power and thus leaving the real decision to the other representatives. I would have no issues being phantom's foil, to have an equally strong personality that balances phantom's alpha personality. (Although, right now I think phantom would fear Lommy's wrath more than mine, so if I decide on this option, I think I'm a gonna vote Lommy for rep).
So this is basically a case of saying "See, I could be a good representative *hint hint*, but look, I'm voting Lommy for the same job, so it doesn't look like I'm advocating myself too much, and it looks like I'd rather have someone else in charge instead because I 'think' she might be better than me, though I'll still do the job if you rally want me." Or at least, that' what it would mean if you're sneakily trying to get voted for rep, though you could still be innocent and trying to gain power.


I know this post is totally focused on Boro's, but it just seemed wrong in so many ways!


This, on the other hand I kind of agree with:
The pros, whatever power phantom gets is always nullified and the fears of those who don't trust him are dealt with. The negs, this puts the decision and the biggest power in the hands of the other representatives, and honestly...that might actually be worse than giving phantom absolute power!
I.e., we've been so focused on phantom, that we haven't even discussed other candidates or possible voting strategies, and by that I mean whether we want many 'weak' representatives (in which case we might as well just be a normal village), or a few 'powerful' representatives (which is much more risky because one of them could be a wolf, but could also be a strong force for good), or perhaps a mix (which is probably what will happen. But would that be good?)


Anyway, this is the post I'm on. Still reading.

[Eönwë]

Vote me for rep...I'll vote to lynch phantom. No lie. :D

See! Told you! :p


And no, I haven't managed to read the rest of the thread that quickly.





edit: fixed quote

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Let's not keep up this "representatives are tp and the force to counterbalance him" -stuff any more.

Let's see tp being one of the many representatives where his power is like one sixth or seventh of the total - and that's it. Please.
This is the only time I said anything about "counterbalancing phantom", and that was only because I was using Boro's rhetorics. And that said, I believe I was the first one to speak about many representatives and the advantages of democracy, thank you, so no worries.

And although I am not happy with what just happened *glances at Mira*, three votes are nothing. Unless there are more mad people around, which I hope not. See also what I said above.

I am still leaning towards voting for Nerwen.

If it is so, then I might vote somebody else - I am fine with Nerwen getting two votes, and I could use my vote then for somebody else from my many options.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro and onwards

[Boromir88]

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.

++phantom for rep

*Sigh* you could be lynched for that and I'm not going to stop it, even if you're probably an innocent just bribed with Cowboys' presents. :rolleyes:

I was going to say wilwa and Nogrod's same proposals was a good idea. We should still probably stick to that. Give 2 votes to someone, making person a rep, and stop it at that. Phantom will just have 3 now, no reason to trash the reasonable proposal.

[Eönwë]

Just to tell you where I am:

I'm going to need to go soon, but I'm considering choosing Legate or Zil as rep. Possibly Lommy, if she can convince me, but that would be a bit too much of an anti-phantom move, which is just as bad as the original pro-phantom move at the beginning of the Day.


Still reading...

[Eönwë]

Though I have to admit that it's Boro that turned voting Lommy into a purely anti-phantom move. So maybe he's trying to make us not vote too anti-phantom (seems the general consensus these days, which makes it a bit of a bangwaggon) and vote him instead, who he portrays as the second best anti-phantomer. Or maybe I'm just reading reading Boro all wrong. I don't know if he'd be that obvious. But if I'm not, I definitely don't like what he's doing by trying to manipulate the Day (maybe even more than the phantom).

In fact, because of him, the anti-phantom bandwaggon now almost seems worse to me than the pro-phantom bandwaggon at the beginning. Or maybe he's just trying to make it seem that way.



And if both Boro and phantom are wolves... :eek:



Edit: missed words

[Thinlómien]

Reading and writing at the same time, so my apologies if I'm repeating stuff... I just got a sudden inspiration to go to sleep soon.

I am sure that it will surprise absolutely nobody that I will give Lommy my vote. (whether she likes it or not)I do like it...

I am actually surprised with the really strong reaction of Lommy's to the phantom-business, while I agree, it's a bit scary the way she reacts so strongly. Hm? I don't think it was so strong.

btw I would happily be a representative my self. . . Power is nice.
I was just quickly skimming things when this jumped out at me. Something about it makes me uneasy about Rune.I think that's just a regular Rune attitude.

To the lasses sally and Lottie. You two have basically surrendered whatever dignity you had left when you jumped at the vote phantom campaign.Weee! Strict Old Boro lectures on young women!

Negs, It would mean giving lots of power to Lommy, who's wrath if put in charge would scare me even more than phantom. Am I really so scary? :confused: Seriously though, while I think lynching tp just for the sake of it would be fun, I don't think that's a wise course unless we actually have some suspicions of him being a wolf which at least I don't really have yet.

Also, I wonder if she's got the confidence to follow through?Somebody ought to put Dr Boro on a vacation. He is not himself. :p

a representative probably won't vote for the ones who elected him/her to power anyway, out of courtesy or just unconsciously, at least not unless there is really heavy evidence against one of the voters.I think I did that last time. I think it's more about that people won't vote people who suspect them as reps.

Now, I think you [Lottie] go too far here. What you've got to remember is that the fact that he's [phantom's] trying really hard to establish some kind of cult around himself doesn't mean he merits it more than anyone else does. Oh, he's sharp and all that, but there are other sharp and independed-minded people around here too and I don't like how little credit they get just because they don't make such a show of themselves.*loves her little sis*

Basically, I was wondering if any Sons of Elrond could be bullied out of fear into voting for me.And you think they would really be so intimidated by you? *raises an eyebrow*

The only thing that I think would induce me or another innocent into attempting to become a representative would be to gain power and attention and to actually think we could help the village by our intuition.Well I think an innocent could want to be a rep simply for the selfish reason of wanting to have their say in things.

Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make. Voting for me is no different than voting for anyone else, other than the fact that I am more likely than most to show up and vote and be vocal and vote according to a plan.I can come up with only one or two people in this game whom I would not trust to definitely show up and vote and be reasonable in their own way, so I don't get why anybody should vote you based on that. And while I agree no one knows anybody's alignment (are we really discussing this?!), you can make a better guess at somebody's alignment after 24 hours than when the game has just started.

What are you talking about? Lommy is like that all the time. Or at least she is any time I'm around. (There may be a connection there.)Love you too, phantom! :D

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right?I bet they are better than with totally random voting...

And in a game like this especially, as it's not completely a tragedy to accidentally vote for a SoE early anyway, as it would be instructive to see what he does with the power you give him.Well, maybe not, but it doesn't make voting for fun any smarter.

So then for the rest of this half of the Day, once someone has 2 votes nobody else should vote for them, that way about half the (what do you call a group of Orcs? A clan of orcs? A gaggle of orcs? A grunt of orcs?), uhm, half the 'village' will be representatives, and it will make the voting process much more interesting, rather than have like 5 people with various amounts of power, that makes me uneasy. Does that seem fair, or am I missing something (like I said, never played a rep game before).I think it sounds good. Mostly we should have a fair number of reps (not just two or three) and they should preferably be quite well balanced in their voting power.

Also I do disagree with the SoE's overpowering craving for power to "steer the lynch", especially early on. Unless they are really in trouble (and that probably doesn't even spell having one of them in trouble on D1), they have no wish to "steer the lynch" just for the sake of doing it. Well some personalities might wish to but, but they'd wish to do it whatever their role..Yep, good point - actually (I might be contradicting myself here but who cares) it just occured to me that an attractive course of action for a SoE would probably be just to sit back and relax and not to get his hands bloody.

"Hearts"? What are we, Elves? *Punches playfully in the face*Eönwë, I totally... loath you for that comment! *hu... punches*

EDIT: x'd with Mira... *bangs head to the desk and cuts the power off from the computer frustrated*Those were my feelings too.

Legate - sort of annoys me in the innocent way
Glirdy - awfully quick to concentrate the talk on phantom, otherwise ok (easily distractable innocent or a wolf trying to steer the discussion?)
Folwren - kind of like the friendly but cut the crap attitude of hers
Nogrod - aww good ol' Nog's back! seems like his innocent self
Boro - my infamous bororadar is saying more innocent than guilty but I don't like his phantocentric attitude
Nerwen and Shasta - you two cuties can be in the same cathegory: I like your attitude and you are very scary ww players AND I haven't seen enough of you to form a picture of what's up
Greenie - it's scary how much we agree, I like her <3. Her vote is very good - maybe even too good?
Sally, Lottie and Mira - annoy me to an extent but I have no actual clear reasonable suspicions against them
Celuien and Kath - not present but of course we forgive Kath because she always does this *ugly orcish leering smile*
Zil, Eönwë and Izzy - can't read them yet
Rune - is either good or trying to buddy me up, which would be disturbing

Haha, this rep games might really be my cup of tea because it's always so much easier to say who's innocent than who's guilty. I think my rep vote will go to Foley or Greenie - I could also vote Leg or Nog but I know they will strive to influence the vote even as non-reps so I wouldn't be too sad even if they weren't elected.

Off to brush my teeth and then it will be decision time...


edit: xed with everything after Boro's #106

[Boromir88]

Mmm, I've got a bit of a rushed decision here, as 6 is when I'm going to be away the rest of the night. I'm going to vote my rep now then...

++Wilwa for rep

I like her proposal and for that should be rewarded.

There Legate, now you know I will not be making Lommy a rep and you've got a few choices.

To respond to some recent posts than I gotta depart.

[Eönwë]

I even got the vote train rolling, which is of course about the most important thing we'll be looking at in this contest.Yes, contest. And with no personal gain whatsoever. :rolleyes:

You've hit the nail on the head. That was exactly what I was trying to do. But unfortunately bunches of people rushed in to negate it, and so the ploy has most definitely lost its effectiveness. Basically, I was wondering if any Sons of Elrond could be bullied out of fear into voting for me. Playing the odds, you know? "Phantom may gain a hail of votes, and he says he won't vote for his people, so if my buddies and I don't vote for him the liklihood of us being lynched is going to increase dramatically!"Though that was a kind of clever way to stop so many people voting for you so soon, wasn't it?

[Boromir88]

You can have some of this one *hands Boro a few scattered vertebrae*

How very thoughtful, and phantom insists orcs are all villainous? :p


And what about the other options? For example, not basing our Day around the phantom and actually trying to catch some elves. Isn't that what we're trying to do? It's much too early to be turning this into a power-contest, especially since all of us (save five) know nothing, and really have nothing to base anything on.

But today we are voting for representatives, not who we think are Elves. So, my focus has been finding the orc I want representing me and trying to stop the ones I don't want in as a rep, thus leading the inevitable phantom-centrism.


So this is basically a case of saying "See, I could be a good representative *hint hint*, but look, I'm voting Lommy for the same job, so it doesn't look like I'm advocating myself too much, and it looks like I'd rather have someone else in charge instead because I 'think' she might be better than me, though I'll still do the job if you rally want me." Or at least, that' what it would mean if you're sneakily trying to get voted for rep, though you could still be innocent and trying to gain power.

You're reading way too far in between the lines with that one. I meant it as a humorous, yet pretty honest statement. Phantom would probably be more frightened of Lommy than I could ever make him...and really the same goes for me! She isn't all sweet lil harmless penguin lover.

I know this post is totally focused on Boro's, but it just seemed wrong in so many ways!

That's how I like it too. ;)

With regards to Kath, I've got a feeling she will not be making an appearance today. To the pits with you! Celuien will probably, she's usually pretty busy and quiet, but far less forgetful than Kath. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And if both Boro and phantom are wolves... :eek:
That's probably the scariest thing I ever heard this far, not to say it would be impossible - would mean seeing Boro's behavior in a totally different light - but I hope I am not as paranoid yet to start considering it too much...

Hm? I don't think it was so strong.
I think it was - just look at the start of it! And the vocabulary! Not going to repeat it here, darling :)

There Legate, now you know I will not be making Lommy a rep and you've got a few choices.
Great. Meditate about it, I will. (score!!!)

EDIT: x-ed with a Boro

[Thinlómien]

I meant it as a humorous, yet pretty honest statement. Phantom would probably be more frightened of Lommy than I could ever make him...and really the same goes for me! She isn't all sweet lil harmless penguin lover.For some reason, this makes me happy. :D

++Greenie Grenadine Little Orc for Representative

Simply because we seem to be on the same wavelength. I hope Folwren is elected for rep too, though.

Good night, see you tomorrow with some serious business!

[wilwarin538]

Before I do anything else I'm going to make a vote count.

I'm letting you know this so no one else starts one, cause I hate putting all the work into it, and then coming back to see one there. :rolleyes:;)

[Eönwë]

Considering voting for rep:
Legate
Zil
Greenie

Also look quite good:
Foley
Lommy

THE CENTRE OF ATTENTION:
The Phantom

Will not vote:
Boro (I have no idea about his alignment, but I don't like his whole "I'll negate phantom" thing)


I'm not sure about other people yet.

[wilwarin538]

Okee.

Sally -> Phantom
Lottie -> Phantom (2)
Rune -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nerwen
Nogrod -> Izzy
Mira -> Phantom (3)
Boro -> Wilwa
Lommy -> Greenie

So, so far our only rep is Phantom, and if he gets another vote I believe that means he gets 2 lynch votes (right??).

So nobody else vote him, or that would be annoying.

And I think if you see that your vote choice already has 2 votes, just pick someone else. The more reps the better.

x'ed with Eonwe and reworded last sentence for clarity

[Eönwë]

Actually, I'm not sure about Zil. His not voting point seemed good at first, but it may well be something that could help the Elves. Then again, it seemed well-meaning at the time. He was also the first person to suggest not voting, which might be something too obvious for a wolf. Though he may have just been trying to lure unsuspecting innocents (or at least, true orcs) to agree with him, and therefore make them look suspicious (and if someone didn't vote for this reason, would also mean less orc-votes). On the other hand, it seems more to me like he's advocating thinking/waiting until people have actually started posting before voting (instead of doing a Sally), which is just reasonable.

In any case, even if there is a chance he's evil, it might be a good idea to vote him in as a representative to force him out of the shadows (both literally and figuratively).

[Eönwë]

On Day 1 in particular, some people have to just take a flying leap and do something! And in a game like this especially, as it's not completely a tragedy to accidentally vote for a SoE early anyway, as it would be instructive to see what he does with the power you give him. Not to mention the fact that the SoE wish to control the vote, and so it's completely possible that they will look like the best candidates if you wait around!! Meaning that your best chance of not voting for a SoE is to vote completely on a random whim and let the simple percentages dictate if you're right or not!

So it's good to vote randomly because having an SoE as a rep this early is useful later, but also because you're less likely to get one?

[Inziladun]

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

Well, in a normal game, why not give a Day 1 vote before 95% of the players have posted? We're supposed to be electing people we think will vote for the SoE's, so doesn't it come to the same thing?

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Anyway, my point. Phantom is a rep now, nobody else vote for him. These caves are small enough already, I'd rather not have his ego take up even more room.

Hear, hear!

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Looks like it's my bedtime now, and since the deadline is 4 AM my time I won't wake up to vote then.. So I'll vote

Nerwelf [/B]is, in general, such a sly case that forcing her into the spotlight wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I've thought about voting Nerwen, but I'd like to see more of her.

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

So for me it comes down to deciding whether to vote for someone I tend to trust a little, who is loud and enigmatic, who is very careful, who is hiding in the shadows...

I think you will take care enough loudmouths get to be elected so I'll start a new trend then.

[highlight++ Izzy for representative[/highlight

She is very good and I always have hard times reading her. I'd like to see her contribute more, already at this stage of the game and not only when the numbers have dwindled.

Hm. She's only made one post, so I'd have a problem voting Izzy right now.

[highlight++phantom for rep

Ah, come on. Isn't there a game rule about not feeding the phantom's ego? :rolleyes: And was no one else even in the running?

Vote me for rep...I'll vote to lynch phantom. No lie. :D

You do make a strong campaign! ;)

[Eönwë]

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power. Well I don't like the idea of just a couple people having a lot of power (and maybe a couple amoung them having even more). I'd rather have half the people have all the same amount of power. That gives us more stuff to analyse, and makes it harder for the SoE to get too much power (unless, like all 4 of them get voted as representative, but at least if they don't have more pull than the other reps it wouldn't be so bad). Did that make any sense?
It does, but then what's the point of having representatives if you're just effectively shrinking the village to half its size?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

So, so far our only rep is Phantom, and if he gets another vote I believe that means he gets 2 lynch votes (right??).


Each Representative gets as many votes as were given to him by the other players to get him elected. To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.

[wilwarin538]

It does, but then what's the point of having representatives if you're just effectively shrinking the village to half its size?

Well, it's just better than putting all the power in the hands of like 3 people. And the more votes there are, and the more spread out they are for different people, the more information we'll have. If everyone today voted for only 3 people, then when the second half of the Day starts those 3 people would not have a lot to go on, and than the following day when we want to look at reps we'd only have 3 people to look at, and since everyone will have voted the same the day before than that's not a lot of info.

Anyway, my point, more information the better, easier to find patterns and connections between people, so the more reps the more info, etc etc.

Right now I will likely vote for one of: Nog, Lommy, Boro, Legate or Greenie. Because they're shiny, and I agree with them mostly, and I think they'd be very smart voters. Though having some quieter ones would be great too, so Nerwen and Izzy would be good choices, and Inzil. Hmm....I'll probably wait til closer til DL (since I will definetely be around then).

x'ed with one of the lovely Modesses

[the phantom]

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.
Well well, I didn't actually expect that in the least. Well then... I'm an orc of my word, and I will at some point in the following two weeks take a picture to prove I have kept my end of the bargain. *bows*
Really, Mirandir? Did you really not do any reading before voting for Phantom? Weren't you paying attention? Guess not.
Why do you assume she did not read, and even if she didn't, why would that have changed her vote? I haven't seen anyone say anything incredibly compelling to discourage her from doing as she has done.

Why be so condescending, as if you know better? You do realize don't you that at this stage you and everyone else knows absolutely nothing, right? For all you know I'm the flippin Seer and Mira spotted something that you didn't.
By your own admission you've never been lynched... The chance to be the first one to ever lynch the phantom is too enticing to resist.
Um, I believe this is the 1,314th time I've had to say this, but- I have never claimed such a thing. I was lynched fairly early on- in the third WW game on this site. Where does this "never been lynched" myth come from?

Right now I'm trying to decide if you are foolish enough to fabricate a reason for lynching me that is so incredibly easy to disprove.

All in all Boro I have not been a fan of yours to this point. You're getting hung up on things you'd normally realize were pointless, and just... No, I'll say no more. Just, you know, shape it up, or I'll begin to think these lapses are intentional.
And you think they would really be so intimidated by you? *raises an eyebrow*
The SoE fear being lynched, and if something is happening that increases those odds, they would most definitely become fearful of whoever it is holding those votes.
And while I agree no one knows anybody's alignment (are we really discussing this?!), you can make a better guess at somebody's alignment after 24 hours than when the game has just started.
I agree in some cases, but it still remains but a guess- particularly on this first day. And if the SoE are playing well early then your guess will logically have a worse chance of being right than a random vote. That's simply the way things are, like it or not. Don't act like those early voters made some sort of serious sacrifice by voting early. They didn't vote stupidly- they voted differently.

[wilwarin538]

Each Representative gets as many votes as were given to him by the other players to get him elected. To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.

Oh, so all Representatives automatically have 2 votes?

x'ed with Puddingtom

[Eönwë]

Well, that's interesting. Than perhaps the SoE will not want to be reps, maybe it'll bring too much attention to them, while non-reps can just glide on by. But then again of course they want to be reps, that gives them power, which the Elvies wants.

I think they'll probably want to be reps as late in the game as possible. However obvious that may sound, my point is that on Day 2, the reps will be under less scrutiny than on Day 1, and so on, because there will be more other things to go on (in terms of suspicion). So, as well as being more important later on, I think the Elves will want to reps later because they'll have less focus on them.

[Eönwë]

To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.
So does that mean that they can be split up?

[the phantom]

So it's good to vote randomly because having an SoE as a rep this early is useful later, but also because you're less likely to get one?
For the most part you've got it.

Basically, my point is that it doesn't matter enough that it should be as big a deal as people are making of it.

Given the right circumstances, the odds of voting right later in the day don't necessarily increase, and under this set up it might actually prove useful later to be wrong early anyway. I'd say the primary difference in the way you stated it and what I meant was that you said that it's "good" to vote randomly, where as my point was more that it's "not bad" to vote randomly.

[the phantom]

Oh, and just for the record, I don't have enough votes.

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture? Perhaps you'd like me to visit? Or you'd like me to never visit? Or would you just like to receive some cold hard cash in the mail? I am absolutely willing to negotiate. Name the price of your vote.

Boro- I'll sport a "I hate Ohio St" shirt. Cel- I'll buy you another one of those awesome outfits you wore on New Years. Glirdan- I'll make your dream of being kidnapped and delivered to Boston come true. Kath- I'll start watching Doctor Who.

Lommy- I'll delete my account after the game and never return. :p

[Eönwë]

I was going to say wilwa and Nogrod's same proposals was a good idea. We should still probably stick to that. Give 2 votes to someone, making person a rep, and stop it at that. Phantom will just have 3 now, no reason to trash the reasonable proposal.

The numbers don't add up for this (Unless some people don't vote). What happens to the last vote?

[wilwarin538]

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture?

So tempted, but no. You already have too many votes. ;)

I think they'll probably want to be reps as late in the game as possible. However obvious that may sound, my point is that on Day 2, the reps will be under less scrutiny than on Day 1, and so on, because there will be more other things to go on (in terms of suspicion). So, as well as being more important later on, I think the Elves will want to reps later because they'll have less focus on them.

I get your point, but I don't think I totally agree. I think because they will be so important later on, they'll have even more focus on them. But because their influence will be so much bigger then (since there will be less of them at a time), than I think the SoE will desire the position even more by that point, whether they have a lot of focus or not.

I'm going to disappear for a bit, but I'll definitely be back well in time for DL.

x'ed with Eonwe, well if everyone votes than either someone will only receive 1 vote and not be a rep, or someone else will need to have 3 votes. But there will likely be atleast one person who doesn't vote *cough*Kath*cough*, so we'll probably end up with a bunch of 2Reps and then the one 3Rep. But I think we should avoid giving anyone more than 3 votes. (but also be careful that we don't end up with a bunch of people with just 1 vote, and not get any representatives, :rolleyes:)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, if I understood what Fea said correctly, then eurgh for phantom already having three votes! Disgust, utter disgust.

Anyway, as for my options:

Foley
Glirdy - okay, not really probably (see above - just out of "dragging into the light", but now with phantom having so many votes, I feel more like putting there somebody I trust, not somebody about whom I just want to get info)
Greenie (has 1 already)
Izzy (1)
Lommy (1)
Nerwen (1)
Nog
Wilwa (1)

I would prefer to vote for somebody who already has a vote, so as to ensure that somebody gets there. We need to get there as many people as we can, like it was said many times. The worst thing would be to have dozen of people with one vote and only phantom for rep :rolleyes:

So out of those Greenie's been a possibility for several people, so I may leave her for the others. Same with Lommy, whom I am not so terribly keen to vote anyway. Nerwen was mentioned partially by some, though not strongly, I might vote her for the sake of it, but... Right now I would prefer Foley, if only I was sure that somebody else will vote her too, so that my vote is not wasted. Any volunteers? Wilwa is right now a bit enigmatic to me, so maybe leaving that be for now.

EDIT: x-ed with several...

[Eönwë]

Well, out of Legate and Greenie, I'm going to vote

++Greenie



Because I like her reasoning and don't think that she's evil.

[Celuien]

I'm finally here and catching up on the minutes. Halfway through... I've been reveling in the evilness of demolishing a camp near the mountain. Bwhahaha.

[the phantom]

I'm finally here and catching up on the minutes. Halfway through... I've been reveling in the evilness of demolishing a camp near the mountain. Bwhahaha.
Yes! A true orc, bursting onto the scene and finding pleasure in her evil deeds! :D

At this point I'd say Celuien should be one of the leaders to be a rep. We'll see what she says after reading.

[Inziladun]

I would prefer to vote for somebody who already has a vote, so as to ensure that somebody gets there. We need to get there as many people as we can, like it was said many times. The worst thing would be to have dozen of people with one vote and only phantom for rep :rolleyes:

Indeed. It would be nice to have a couple more who can approach or rival tp's power, for balance.

So out of those Greenie's been a possibility for several people, so I may leave her for the others. Same with Lommy, whom I am not so terribly keen to vote anyway. Nerwen was mentioned partially by some, though not strongly, I might vote her for the sake of it, but... Right now I would prefer Foley, if only I was sure that somebody else will vote her too, so that my vote is not wasted. Any volunteers? Wilwa is right now a bit enigmatic to me, so maybe leaving that be for now.

I've been leaning toward Boro, but I could possibly go for Lommy or Wilwa as well, since both seem reasonable at the moment.

x/d with Eönwë, xed, and tp.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Raise your hand if you know precisely who is a true orc and thus deserving of your vote.

Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make. Voting for me is no different than voting for anyone else, other than the fact that I am more likely than most to show up and vote and be vocal and vote according to a plan.

Not entirely untrue, but definitely taken out of context. Phantom - it seems pretty clear to me that Lommy was talking about how early Sally and Lottie both threw away their vote onto you for no reason (they can quote statistics all they like, I have yet to see an actual full-fledged reason for them other than the fact that, well, you're you).

I even got the vote train rolling, which is of course about the most important thing we'll be looking at in this contest.

I don't believe you did. Just because the votes were for you, it doesn't follow that you started the entire thing, so I think you're attributing a bit much to your own good self, as usual. :p

(Sidenote: It's hard for me to be genuinely angry at Phantom after having met the guy, but man, he does frustrate me sometimes. :p)

It's not a meaningless comment. She's right. At least Sally threw her vote to you directly without hearing anything from anybody else. In Day 1 there are definitely ways to get ideas or hunches about people, and she didn't even wait for that. You and Sally treat Day 1 as though it were a perfect waste, and Lommy treats it as though it were not, and you bash her for it. Sir, we may all be 'evil orcs' but I'm getting a feeling that you're more evil than the rest of us, because you're willing to trample on people and their ideas.


But it IS clear-cut, Phantom. People should wait and let their ignorance be enlightened if at all possible before voting.
And he IS right about not voting in ignorance. Absolutely he's right. To not vote is idiotic, but to vote blindly and out of ignorance is even worse.

I really like this post of Rune's. He seems more clearheaded and focused than I usually see him (take this with a grain of salt as it's been ages since I played with the man), and I like it.

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day. And also, it fed in nicely to the underlying motive which was simply to create discussion and get the ball rolling.

Wrong, wrong, wrong on all counts. "Impressive"? Really? Would you be saying the same thing had Sally and Lottie voted someone like, say, Folwren? A 'might as well attitude' shows 'nerve'? I think not, it pretty clearly shows that Sally and Lottie don't really feel like playing before Day 2 starts (which, in a sidenote, also makes it look like they are sure they'll be around for said Day 2... something to consider). An 'understanding of where we are on this first day'? Coming from you, that translates to "Vote for Phantom because today won't matter and it will be amusing!" Well, so what? While amusing the moddesses would be a happy side effect of playing this game, I personally am here to win. So are you, so you've said, which makes me wonder if there's not some sort of contradiction here.

Greenie's #83 probably sums this up more succinctly than I have, but I'm typing my replies as I see posts. Speaking of Greenie, she's another one I like today.

Given all this, though, I do think Phantom has a point here, re: Inzil:

You agreed way too quickly to something that is not nearly so clear cut as you put forth, and your suggestion of not voting, well... I really don't like it. If all the SoE are voting for each other, encouraging others to sit on their votes would be a great way to gain larger sway over the lynch.

And Inzil's defense here -

I didn't suggest not voting as a practice, but I find it preferable to making a random one without examining as many people as possible. And I also said anyone not voting should be held accountable and made to explain.

...I don't know, something just seems wrong with it. I think it's the "and I also said" that is pinging my radar, as if Inzil is, I don't know, trying to please everyone, which is an Elf trademark.

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

Simple. How are we to analyze votes tomorrow were everyone to say "oh, disregard yesterday's vote, it was simply random"? It's insanely easy for a wolf to hide behind such a move, and it gets the town nowhere with analyses and such. I fail to see why you wish to deny information to the town, Phantom.

Just saw Mira's vote at #103, and while frustrating... it really doesn't surprise me too much.

Phantom, I'm curious - are you going to be at all flattered when you become a rep only because people voted for you without thinking?

Hahaha, I love this person (guy? girl?).

Don't act like those early voters made some sort of serious sacrifice by voting early. They didn't vote stupidly- they voted differently.

Voting for someone based solely on the strength of A) their personality and B) what they've done in past games is stupid, sorry. I love Sally and Lottie to pieces, but it was.

I wonder - was there anything in the rules about not voting ourselves? I should go check that.

Right now my vote could go to Rune, Nerwen, Lommy, Greenie, or Izzy. I need to think a bit more. I could also vote myself. :p

Edit: X'ed since Eonwe's vote (I think).

[Inziladun]

At this point I'd say Celuien should be one of the leaders to be a rep. We'll see what she says after reading.

Why?

x/d with Shasta

[Inziladun]

Bah. Need to vote now, as I'm not sure I'll make it back before DL.

++Boro for rep

I still think there's something odd in the first two votes for tp, and Boro seems like a good alternative.

Maybe someone else will vote for him, too.

[the phantom]

What's the obsession with balance anyway? Do you honestly want balance?! We ought to wish for lopsided domination by the orcs! Who cares how many votes I have so long as you don't think I'm a SoE (which I'm not).
How are we to analyze votes tomorrow were everyone to say "oh, disregard yesterday's vote, it was simply random"? It's insanely easy for a wolf to hide behind such a move, and it gets the town nowhere with analyses and such. I fail to see why you wish to deny information to the town, Phantom.
Ah, but who would truly accept such reasoning tomorrow? I mean, heck, you're already suspicious of it.
I have yet to see an actual full-fledged reason for them other than the fact that, well, you're you
And what's wrong with that anyway? Perhaps Lottie thought, "All right then, I'll play his game. Let's see where he's trying to go with this." For all I know Lottie and Sally are testing me with the power and will come out against me tomorrow.
Voting for someone based solely on the strength of A) their personality and B) what they've done in past games is stupid, sorry. I love Sally and Lottie to pieces, but it was.
Past behaviors are not to be completely ignored, nor is personality. Those things always factor in at some level when you are with familiar faces, and so I think it is rather harsh to accuse them of being stupid when, to this point, they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

And you can't expect us to be led around by the nose and believe you when you say that.

[the phantom]

Why?
It goes back to that tantrum I threw at the beginning- the fact that we orcs are the bad guys, and I'm sick of this wishy-washy nonsense about trying to paint ourselves as the good guys. Let's be bad and enjoy it, I say! And Cel came right in displaying that attitude, and it made me smile. So yeah, no other reason than that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am basically half asleep already... so... the idea is... will anybody vote for Foley if I do? That's my dilemma. Otherwise, Greenie's been voted for, I could vote Izzy, but she seems to have some support possible from several people, Nerwen and wilwa possibly too, whatever...

So should I be brave and point people towards Folwren instead of just talking about it, or go with somebody else - probably Nerwen...

[the phantom]

Shasta- you don't have to have 100% proof of that statement to understand that the point is a nice support for my overall argument. The fact is, what they decided to do had just as much chance of yielding positive results as whatever they would've attempted later in the day, and from my unique perspective I can see quite clearly that they at the least elected an orc. What else do you want me to say?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The fact is, what they decided to do had just as much chance of yielding positive results as whatever they would've attempted later in the day

This is flawed. Sure, if you want to go by pure statistics, then yes, you can say this. However, this game is not played on statistics alone. If it was, we'd all be accountants, and I wouldn't be playing because I hate math. The fact is, Sally and Lottie both voted before any information could be gathered, based on nothing from inside this particular game. You may say that this fact is irrelevant all you like, the fact is that it's not irrelevant at all. Yes, it's possible that you're innocent and that from your point of view, Sally and Lottie (and Mira) have voted for an orc. However, no one else (not even they) can be for sure that you're an orc, unless they're an elf. And before you reiterate your previous argument, let me state that both Sally and Lottie voted for you before you even showed up, which means they had no in-game basis for voting you, and Mira admittedly read nothing of the thread before voting you so she's basically in the same boat. The fact that they voted you does not mean that they're innocent - in fact I think it points at just the opposite - and I fail to see why you consistently defend them for such an anti-town play.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Izzy

[Shastanis Althreduin]

and I fail to see why you consistently defend them for such an anti-town play.

Addendum - unless it's of course that they voted for you, and your "knight in shining armor" syndrome is kicking in. :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I really cannot think anymore, and since nobody seems to help me with the particular concern I have now, I will go to sleep now. And since Izzy already got the vote too, then it is clearly of my other options,

++Nerwen for rep

Good night.

[Celuien]

That was quite a twisty read - quicker to get lost in that than in the tunnels. Sorry if I repeat things, as I'll admit some of it ended up getting skimmed. :rolleyes:

My thoughts on whom I'd like to see as a representative at this point...

I want orcs with minds of their own. The SoE are a sneaky group of rats and I'd think that even with this representative system, louder members of the group are apt to try to steer voting, especially in the chaos of the first days. That said, I equally dislike having the votes being dominated by a few since that sets up far too easy a hiding place for quiet orc-killers. And a position with all of the power concentrated in one place would be tempting for the tricky, loud, steering SoE, if they exist.

I find nothing odd about tp's campaign to lead, but I don't think it helps me decide if he's a true orc or not. In any case, I think that debate has been discussed extensively enough above, and I'm not inclined to go there again.

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture? Perhaps you'd like me to visit? Or you'd like me to never visit? Or would you just like to receive some cold hard cash in the mail? I am absolutely willing to negotiate. Name the price of your vote.

Cel- I'll buy you another one of those awesome outfits you wore on New Years.

As much as I would like to accept (oh, for a visit or photo!), I'm afraid I can't today because I do want to spread some of the representing vote power around and because I want to get more discussion and voting trails for tomorrow.

For the rep vote, I don't think I will go with Boro. I don't want the rest of the day to become a Boro vs Phantom match. So I'd like to go with one of the quieter (so it seems at this point) and more difficult to read members of the group.

++ Foley for rep

More in a bit. I'm sure the talk has been continuing while I was typing... :p

[Celuien]

It goes back to that tantrum I threw at the beginning- the fact that we orcs are the bad guys, and I'm sick of this wishy-washy nonsense about trying to paint ourselves as the good guys. Let's be bad and enjoy it, I say! And Cel came right in displaying that attitude, and it made me smile. So yeah, no other reason than that.

Haha! Or rather, mwhahaha. None of this "good" nonsense. That sounds like elf talk.

[the phantom]

Ah, well, you seem to have given part of my answer for me, Shasta. Since I did in fact promise protection to them, I do feel honor bound to give it this day. But the biggest reason for my defense is simply the number of people who thought it very telling. I mean, it's the sort of thing that logically is easy to wave off given the reasoning I have provided, and yet people have remained firm even after I've pointed out these things I never imagined I'd have to bother with.

Really, in a typical village I'd expect there to be far more people than me saying, "Bah, it's Day 1. It's a blind shot anyway, so why not go unconventional just this once?" Given past games and behaviors I would have expected a village to have a mix of reactions from "That's annoying!" to "What the heck?" to "Oh well, just being silly". I've been doing this long enough that I can see reactions come ahead of time quite often, and I can tell you the reactions to Sally and Lottie have surprised me, and makes me suspect something or other is off.

[the phantom]

Got to run off now. I'd better go ahead and vote.

++Celuien for rep

Because she acts like an orc, and I'd like to see her active in the second part of the day.

[wilwarin538]

Votes

Sally -> Phantom
Lottie -> Phantom (2)
Rune -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nerwen
Nogrod -> Izzy
Mira -> Phantom (3)
Boro -> Wilwa
Lommy -> Greenie
Eonwe -> Greenie (2)
Inzil -> Boro
Shasta -> Izzy (2)
Legate -> Nerwen (2)
Celuien -> Foley
Phantom -> Celuien

So our reps so far: Phantom3, Greenie2, Izzy2 and Nerwen2.

I definetely won't be voting for anyone who doesn't already have a vote (I don't want to have too many people with just one vote, and then end up with a lack of representatives). I'm currently leaning towards Boro or Lommy, but I'll wait a tad longer.

And though Phantom's vote is a tad odd, I don't totally object, I like the idea of having some quieter reps.

[Nerwen]

Hola! I'd apologise for not being around, but that would be so un-orclike.

Well, then–

++Lommy for rep

–thoughts to follow.

[wilwarin538]

Actually, I'm just going to vote now

++Lommy for Representative

Because I agreed with her today, and she's a very logical person, so I trust her to make a good choice.

x'ed with Nerwen, ok than, I just accidently went against my own plan :rolleyes: oh well, now Puddingtom isn't the only one with 3 votes

[Isabellkya]

I think it more prudent than previously, for all to make their thoughts known on players. That way the Rep's have things to read. Of course this is on the hope that they don't simply decide amongst themselves, but take into account what the Non-Rep's think.

I hadn't thought about that. In what Boro discusses in #65. We don't want a Rep who will cower and give-in to the other Rep(s). Representative dynamic is something to think about as well.

The "you give me your vote, I won't lynch-vote you" could always be a tactic to hide Elves voting for Elves for Representative. Since I think this style of voting has a slightly higher information rate. Are Elves going to be bold and attempt to elect their mates into power - which I think is a larger connection than the more traditional distance voting. how else would you setup up a scenario in which you could explain away voting for your mate, when/if the time comes that you are called out for it?

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day. And also, it fed in nicely to the underlying motive which was simply to create discussion and get the ball rolling.

Sally voted for you in her first post of the game, second over all. Loslote's was the 17th of the Day. Neither had even given the Day a chance to get rolling before tossing their vote away. Loslote even later asks Nerwen how she could distrust you, given the only banter posts. How could one trust only on banter posts?

Okay. About post #85 is when I started skimming because I noticed 38 minutes left.

I support adding Mira to the/a lynch pool.

No more people should vote for phantom.. three votes. Good grief.


X'd with Nerwen and Wilwa

[Nerwen]

So–

Phantom (3), Lommy (3) Greenie (2), Izzy (2) Nerwen (2)

EDIT:X'd with Izzy.

[Loslote]

It seems we already have two "parties" here - and a few bystanders who carefully consider their words not to commit themselves. This Sally - Lottie - tp triangle looks just a bit too obvious to be true. But the moral highground of Shasta - Nerwen - Lommy trio is kind of too neat as well. And the carefulness of Legate -Zil - Glirdy looks soo suspicious...

Gah. Sorry about throwing you guys into these "easy categories": they are my first impressions. I hope I can elaborate on them later and maybe put up some better ideas.

These categories actually do make sense to me - and there defintely are party dynamics at work here.

I don't see why you are so quick to trust and defend Phantom, Loslote.

I have always been quick to defend people against arguments I consider to be flawed. Nerworc's arguments against tp were, in my opinion, flawed.

Perhaps not - but from your own perspective one could think that you would find a good decision easier to make after a bit more time for considering it...

I did not know I would be awake so long, and up until I voted, nothing of great importance had occured. Nerwen was badgering tp because of IC banter, which was the only thing of substance at the time - other than tp's comments and Sallycake's vote.

As for the 'splitting up votes' idea of Vanilwuffin's and Nog's, I think it's a good idea, especially for the earlier Days. Later on, of course, it'd make sense to give more power to someone who who genuniely trust, as opposed to voting for someone else simply because the person you wanted to represent you already had xyr quota of votes for the Day.

Originally posted by Shasta:
I think not, it pretty clearly shows that Sally and Lottie don't really feel like playing before Day 2 starts (which, in a sidenote, also makes it look like they are sure they'll be around for said Day 2... something to consider).

Or couldn't be around to really play before Day 2 starts. And given the size of the village, there's comparatively little risk of wolf-kill than normal.

Oh, by the way, I'm finally back...

EDIT: yeah, I xed with people since Zil's 'why' post.

EDITEDIT: I xed with tons of people because I started this post hours ago, but never got to do anything with it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh, so all Representatives automatically have 2 votes?

Yes. All Reps start with two.

So does that mean that they can be split up?

No, they can't. Because it's funnier that way for the mods.

Hahaha, I love this person (guy? girl?).

Foley is a lassie, and she is highly lovable. I've loved her for years now.

[wilwarin538]

I think it more prudent than previously, for all to make their thoughts known on players. That way the Rep's have things to read. Of course this is on the hope that they don't simply decide amongst themselves, but take into account what the Non-Rep's think.


Actually everyone will still be allowed to post, but only Reps can vote. So I think that's probably why people are holding off a bit on suspicions and just focusing on who they trust right now.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally has returned!

And I am highly offended. :mad:

*goes to argue with Chrome*

[Isabellkya]

Wilwa. Yeah, I realized it after I had already written it, and was just too busy trying to read to delete it. However part of it still stands. Because those who are non-Reps can easily slide into being inactive. They may think it not as important to participate fully, since they don't actually have a vote, and nothing says they should be listened to.

I think if the count is right, those of us left with votes can add those four with singles.
Wilwa, Boro, Foley and Celuien?


X'd with Sally.

[wilwarin538]

No, they can't. Because it's funnier that way for the mods.


But you said this in the Almighty Rulez: "The Representatives MAY split their votes."

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But you said this in the Almighty Rulez: "The Representatives MAY split their votes."

Haha FINNNNNNNE. I couldn't remember if I'd specified (though I know Ni and I had talked about it). And I was clearly too lazy to double check.

Strike my former statement. Reps may split their votes.

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa. Yeah, I realized it after I had already written it, and was just too busy trying to read to delete it. However part of it still stands. Because those who are non-Reps can easily slide into being inactive. They may think it not as important to participate fully, since they don't actually have a vote, and nothing says they should be listened to.


Hmm hmm. Which is why it would be good to get quieter players in there, since more active ones will be likely to talk whether they have a vote or not.

[wilwarin538]

Haha FINNNNNNNE. I couldn't remember if I'd specified (though I know Ni and I had talked about it). And I was clearly too lazy to double check.


Haha, :p *snuggles, hands Moddess a big cup of Timmy's peppermint hot chocolate*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Haha, :p *snuggles, hands Moddess a big cup of Timmy's peppermint hot chocolate*

Regardless of how votes go, Wilwa will not be dying today. <3 Sessa.

(I mean, if y'all really do try to kill her, I won't stop you, but y'all should know that her intimate knowledge of my Timmy's love affair means I'll be VERY unhappy if you kill her.)

[Loslote]

let me state that both Sally and Lottie voted for you before you even showed up, which means they had no in-game basis for voting you,

This is not even true, Shasticle. You were there at the time, too. Surely you remember that tp was very much around before I voted? More so, in fact, than anyone else?

Sally voted for you in her first post of the game, second over all. Loslote's was the 17th of the Day. Neither had even given the Day a chance to get rolling before tossing their vote away. Loslote even later asks Nerwen how she could distrust you, given the only banter posts. How could one trust only on banter posts?

I trusted him to be himself, which meant that he was going to be manipulative, not manipulated. I don't mind accidentally putting a SoE in power nearly as much as putting someone in power who is going to let the SoE walk over them. You see, if the SoE is in power, they have to behave themselves. They're in the spotlight. If someone who is going to let the SoE walk over them is in power, they get burned, not the SoE who manipulated them. Better to have the manipulators in full view, being forced to take responsibilty for their own actions. No, I didn't - and don't, fully - trust The Puddingtom. But I don't need to in order to know that he ought to be in power. He ought to have the chance to actually make good on his promises, not hide behind the mask that is his lack of power.

EDIT: xed with Vanilwuffin and Feanorc The Bemoaned

[Folwren]

Ah hm. I barely remembered deadline. I can only stay to vote.

I see that lots of people have been nominated...I know little about most of the people who have only one vote. But I do know some about Inzil, so I'll go ahead and vote for him.

Oh, wait. He already has two votes...

Okay, only having a little time to glance over stuff, I'm going to go ahead and vote for Celuein. No, not 'cause she voted for me first, but because I like her.

++Celuien

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya
I don't see why you are so quick to trust and defend Phantom, Loslote.
I have always been quick to defend people against arguments I consider to be flawed. Nerworc's arguments against tp were, in my opinion, flawed.
Thanks for that "Nerworc". I much prefer it to "Nerwoblin". (Sorry, Fea.)

Now let me explain something: I am fine with phantom being a representative. What I was not fine with was him being the representative. (Or at least ending up with the controlling vote, which was more probable.) Somebody suggested that it's a good idea to give people power and see what they do with it. This is true. However, if one person has total control of the lynch, that takes away much of our chance of drawing any conclusions from it– plus, of course , if that person happens to be an Elf, then we've got no hope of the lynch going well.

EDIT:X'd with many; typo

[Loslote]

Ah hm. I barely remembered deadline. I can only stay to vote.

I see that lots of people have been nominated...I know little about most of the people who have only one vote. But I do know some about Inzil, so I'll go ahead and vote for him.


Zil? No he doesn't. Did I miss something? :confused:

EDIT: xed with Nerworc

[wilwarin538]

Regardless of how votes go, Wilwa will not be dying today. <3 Sessa.

(I mean, if y'all really do try to kill her, I won't stop you, but y'all should know that her intimate knowledge of my Timmy's love affair means I'll be VERY unhappy if you kill her.)

Haha, should we start calling you Fea Hortons? Cause it sounds like you and Timmy are meant to be. ;) <3

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thanks for that "Nerworc". I much prefer it to "Nerwoblin". (Sorry, Fea.)

I suppose if you'd rather work than mischievously wobble...

[Isabellkya]

++Wilwa

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Haha, should we start calling you Fea Hortons? Cause it sounds like you and Timmy are meant to be. ;) <3

You and only you may call me Timmy.

[Loslote]

Now let me explain something: I am fine with phantom being a representative. What I was not fine with was him being the representative. (Or at least ending up with the controlling vote, which was more probable.) Somebody suggested that it's a good idea to give people power and see what they do with it. This is true. However, if one person has total control of the lynch, that takes away much of our chance of drawing any conclusions from it– plus, of course , if that person happens to be a Elf, then we've got no hope of the lynch going well.

That makes quite a lot more sense. As it was, I was having a hard time trying to figure out where your aversion to him as a rep was coming from. I do agree with you that he shouldn't be the only rep. Logically, that really wouldn't make sense. :)

EDIT: xed with Feanorc The Dearly Departed, Izzy, and Feanorc Of The Tragic Murder

[wilwarin538]

You and only you may call me Timmy.

Haha, okee. :D *feels special*

And I'm guessing Foley got Inzil and Izzy's names mixed up.

[Loslote]

Haha, okee. :D *feels special*

And I'm guessing Foley got Inzil and Izzy's names mixed up.

That's probably it. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

3-vote:

the phantom
Lommy

2-vote:

Nerwen
Izzy
Wilwa
Greenie
Celuien

All players may discuss who to lynch, but only these people may cast votes.

[Folwren]

Oh dear. Did I get Inzil and Izzy mixed up? Drat, I did. Sorry, Inzil. :( Not that my vote would've done much good 'cause you didn't even have one vote anyway. I don't like those two nick-names, they're too close. Can we call Isabellkya Kya instead of Izzy? I think Kya sounds cooler.

So, does Lommy's and Phantom's votes weigh more than the other reps?

[satansaloser2005]

Inzil/Zil is also called Dun by a few people. I feel that it helps alleviate confusion in cases such as these.

Also, I think Bell would be lovely for our darling Izzy, should she undergo a name change. It's certainly easier to rhyme, and we know how important that is to our lovely moddess Fea. ;)

[wilwarin538]

3-vote:

the phantom
Lommy

2-vote:

Nerwen
Izzy
Wilwa
Greenie
Celuien

All players may discuss who to lynch, but only these people may cast votes.

Well, Puddingtom will certainly enjoy being in the presence of so many lovely ladies.

And now I need to go to sleep, I should be around quite a bit tomorrow (for only the second half of the day due to sleep and early classes) and especially the last 5ish hours.

*goes bed time*

[Loslote]

Oh dear. Did I get Inzil and Izzy mixed up? Drat, I did. Sorry, Inzil. :( Not that my vote would've done much good 'cause you didn't even have one vote anyway. I don't like those two nick-names, they're too close. Can we call Isabellkya Kya instead of Izzy? I think Kya sounds cooler.

So, does Lommy's and Phantom's votes weigh more than the other reps?

1. I call him Zil and her Izzy. I got used to it after a while, but it is rather confusing. Switching to Kya now would be even more confusing for me, though.

2. They both have three votes and the other reps have two each.

EDIT: xed with Vanilwuffin

[Folwren]

k, I just briefly glanced over the forty plus posts I missed in my absense. I'd like to suggest that we kill Phantom this evening. Using his own logic, the first death is a stab in the dark anyway, so it may as well be him, right? Plus, he's beginning to really get on my nerves. He reminds me of my older brother a few years ago, before my older brother became a husband and a father...a stuck up know-it-all before he'd really met the world and been taken down a few notches.

But...putting all that personal feeling aside, let me say this. When I played with Phantom not long ago, I did not get a feeling of guiltiness from him. I felt him trustworthy and stable. Come to find out, he was. In this game? No. I feel no trustworthiness in him at all. I think he is riding on the wave of a huge bluff.

It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable. Why? It doesn't make sense. He claims he wants to help the village, but is he doing so, or is he just making a lot of people mad at him and muddying the waters while he's doing it?

X-posted with Sally, Lottie, and Wilwa

[Loslote]

It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable. Why? It doesn't make sense. He claims he wants to help the village, but is he doing so, or is he just making a lot of people mad at him and muddying the waters while he's doing it?

It's not logical that he has his own opinion, eh? If he says that our votes were understandable, maybe it's because he understood them. What you're saying is that we should lynch tp because he has a different opinion. This is simply not logical. ;)

[Mirandir]

Really, Mirandir? Did you really not do any reading before voting for Phantom? Weren't you paying attention? Guess not. Phantom, I'm curious - are you going to be at all flattered when you become a rep only because people voted for you without thinking?

Why actually I wasn't. Which I made perfectly clear in my first post of the day.

[Celuien]

As long as we're talking nicknames, may I reclaim X'ed? :D

I have to sign out for the evening, but promise to be back and paying attention. :)

[Nerwen]

Thank you, thank you, Orcs and Orcesses. As your elected representative, I'll do all I can to see that the SoE are brought to justice, and that the form that justice takes will be as amusing for us all as possible!:smokin:

But...putting all that personal feeling aside, let me say this. When I played with Phantom not long ago, I did not get a feeling of guiltiness from him. I felt him trustworthy and stable. Come to find out, he was. In this game? No. I feel no trustworthiness in him at all. I think he is riding on the wave of a huge bluff.
If that was Glirdan's game, he was a baddie for much of it, though.

Oh, and regarding the term "baddie"– I still refuse to submit to the phantom's dictum that we should speak of the village as "evil" and the wolves (Elves) as "good". Too confusing. I've been in reversed-alignment villages before, and we didn't do that.

It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable. Why? It doesn't make sense. He claims he wants to help the village, but is he doing so, or is he just making a lot of people mad at him and muddying the waters while he's doing it?
The trouble when dealing with phantom is that he does have a rather notorious ego :p, to the point where he might well see their votes for him as perfectly logical. His push to become sole representative does bug me quite a lot, because he ought to know that wouldn't be terribly helpful to the village, not to mention his promise not to lynch people who elected him.

EDIT:X'd with Xed; wording and typos.

[Folwren]

It's not logical that he has his own opinion, eh? If he says that our votes were understandable, maybe it's because he understood them. What you're saying is that we should lynch tp because he has a different opinion. This is simply not logical. ;)

Lottie, you should know better. Lot's of people have illogical opinions, and their opinions are not considered logical just because it's their personal opinion. Phantom never said, "It's my opinion" he just mostly said, "You're being ridiculous, you are wrong, their votes were perfectly understandable." And when most of the village can't conceive why they voted like that, obviously their votes weren't understandable...

Their votes? I should be saying YOUR votes.

Nerwen, just 'cause Phantom has a huge ego doesn't mean we shouldn't deflate it for him. It would do him good, I imagine. He might be able to wear regular hat sizes again instead of having to special order them.

[Folwren]

I'm off to bed and I might not be back on for quite a while.

~Folworc

[Boromir88]

That's a pretty good spread, it's a little better than a 1 to 3 representation. There aren't any California's either who can bulldoze the smaller ones. We've got a bunch of Ohio swing-voters!

Plus I like having several quiet, and cautious, (perhaps Legate would say "less radical" :p ) representatives. This way some of the sneaky quiet ones, who I start over looking fast will in a more noticeable position.

With that, I bid thee adieu as I take the rest of this day off. May the lynching be fruitful by serving us an SoE head on a silver platter! :D

[Loslote]

Lottie, you should know better. Lot's of people have illogical opinions, and their opinions are not considered logical just because it's their personal opinion. Phantom never said, "It's my opinion" he just mostly said, "You're being ridiculous, you are wrong, their votes were perfectly understandable." And when most of the village can't conceive why they voted like that, obviously their votes weren't understandable...

Their votes? I should be saying YOUR votes.

Again, he has not been proven wrong, it is simply your opinion that he is. His arguments contained no illogical jumps, they were simply founded on different assumptions than yours were. Since you have no immediate way of verifying these assumptions, you can not say that he is illogical. You can say that you disagree, and this would be true. You can even say that you think he is wrong, and explain why. This is, again, sound logic. But to say that he is illogical because you don't like what conclusions his logic draws is not sound logic.

[the phantom]

Neither had even given the Day a chance to get rolling before tossing their vote away. Loslote even later asks Nerwen how she could distrust you, given the only banter posts. How could one trust only on banter posts?
How exactly did they "toss away" their votes? They voted. End of story. If they had sat on their bums for a few hours and then voted for me, the result would've been the same- Phantom gains two votes.

How is your vote any better than theirs? Let me ask you, what information do you know right now? Who has been lynched so far? Who has been Night-killed? Which roles have been revealed?

For all you know you just elected a SoE, where as I know for a fact that the ladies you are criticizing elected an orc.

[Nerwen]

Again, he has not been proven wrong, it is simply your opinion that he is. His arguments contained no illogical jumps, they were simply founded on different assumptions than yours were.
That would be the assumption that he's the best man for the job, yes?;)

Seriously: unless I've misunderstood, the phantom's reasoning is this: "I'm too wilful to be manipulated by the wolves (cf Lottie (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=639037&postcount=36)), therefore they wouldn't try to make me a puppet-ruler, therefore all votes for me are probably trustworthy."

So, there is some logic there, but in fact only Lottie used this argument. Sally voted him based on what was apparently a misapprehension, and Mira seems to have given him the third vote (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=639117&postcount=103) as a joke.

Also, Lottie, why aren't you worried by phantom's promise not to lynch those who voted for him?

EDIT:X'd with the orc himself.

[the phantom]

I remind you of a stuck-up know-it-all, Folwren?

YOU are the one telling people that their votes are stupid when they're not, and demanding that people see things your way. I'm merely pointing out facts. Again and again, since people are unwilling to grasp the points.
It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable. Why? It doesn't make sense.
If he says that our votes were understandable, maybe it's because he understood them.
Precisely. I have explained my position logically and reasonably, and it's not my fault that people aren't following. For the 10th time- Lottie and Sally knew just as much as you when they voted. And oh by the way, they voted for a true orc. I mean- you can't argue with results. You really think lynching me would deflate me? *snerk* No, it would merely result in me dancing around saying, "Told you so!"

And by the way, I haven't even given the best justification for my antics and their early votes yet. In the end if I'm forced to say it I will, but the fact that more of you haven't backed off on this issue tells me that you haven't carefully considered everything about this village. Boro in particular- it's one of the main reasons I'm suspicious of you, as given your usual method of operating you would've seen two advantages in particular in doing what I have done and would have attempted to hint to me to the fact that you knew what I was doing. I mean, as far as "ploys" go this one is rather more obvious than those I typically favor.

[the phantom]

His push to become sole representative does bug me quite a lot
I've already explained that one, m'dear. It was largely a ploy (which could have been useful if it hadn't been blundered into and blown up so early). I remarked earlier that I knew good and well it wouldn't happen, so how can you think I honestly was trying for it? It's like me saying "I'm going to leap over the moon!" and then jumping as high as I can. Was I honestly trying to jump over the moon?

I knew I wouldn't get massive power, but I didn't mind getting a bit extra seeing as I am the only person I know is orcish and I have no intention of dying early, and votes in hand can help avoid that.
unless I've misunderstood, the phantom's reasoning is this: "I'm too wilful to be manipulated by the wolves (cf Lottie), therefore they wouldn't try to make me a puppet-ruler, therefore all votes for me are probably trustworthy."
Erm, what? I don't recall ever ever saying or implying anything like that. All of my defenses of my voters have been primarily a reaction to people seeing something fishy about them when in fact it wasn't that big of a deal at all if considered cooly and realistically.

As a matter of fact I don't believe I have ever even declared my voters as being trustworthy or true orcs. I have merely been defending them against a specific attack which I saw as being a perplexing stretch of reasoning. In general when I see more than one person grasping onto the same legless argument I am quick to suspect that something odd is going on.

[Loslote]

That would be the assumption that he's the best man for the job, yes?;)

No, I was in fact refering to the assumption that he's an orc. Since he can make that assumption, he can logically draw the conclusion that Sally, Mira, and I voted for an orc. No one else can make that assumption, so the fact that the rest of the village doesn't accept his logic does not mean that it is not logical.

Also, Lottie, why aren't you worried by phantom's promise not to lynch those who voted for him?

1. That promise was made after I voted.

2. Well, it's pretty obvious that a representative isn't likely to vote for the people they represent. It's sort of counter-productive for those who want to remain in power rather than being mistrusted by the voters for the rest of the game, isn't it?

EDIT: xed with The Puddingtom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

For the 10th time- Lottie and Sally knew just as much as you when they voted.

Not true. Folwren had several pages of discussion to read through and form opinions before she voted, I believe, information that Lottie and Sally certainly did not have when they voted.

[Nerwen]

No, I was in fact refering to the assumption that he's an orc. Since he can make that assumption, he can logically draw the conclusion that Sally, Mira, and I voted for an orc. No one else can make that assumption, so the fact that the rest of the village doesn't accept his logic does not mean that it is not logical.
No, but the logic doesn't go very far, does it?

1. That promise was made after I voted. I know, but you specifically mentioned that it didn't bother you– that's what I was asking about not, "why did you vote him?"

2. Well, it's pretty obvious that a representative isn't likely to vote for the people they represent. It's sort of counter-productive for those who want to remain in power rather than being mistrusted by the voters for the rest of the game, isn't it?
Yes, but isn't promising not to vote the people one represents counter-productive for those who want to hunt wolves– er, I mean, Elves?

True, I won't be voting Greenie or Legate just for a default–lynch. But if either of them starts looking distinctly Elvish, that's a different matter.

[the phantom]

For the 10th time- Lottie and Sally knew just as much as you when they voted.
Not true. Folwren had several pages of discussion to read through and form opinions before she voted, I believe, information that Lottie and Sally certainly did not have when they voted.
Your response has nothing to do with my statement. I did not say L & S had the same number of posts to read over when they voted, but rather that they knew the same exact amount when they voted. Actual knowledge. Something you can bank on. Reading through five pages of "I don't like those early votes!" and "I don't like Phantom!" and "You're wrong!" and "Let's not split votes!" does not qualify as gaining actual real knowledge. You can try and form a hunch based upon such things, but that is all.

Meh- I want to say something to you, but I really shouldn't. Just... read everything I've said today, and consider it from all angles and think what sorts of things an orc-Phantom would want to accomplish and how things I have done might fit in line with those goals. Let me know if it falls into place.

[the phantom]

All right, extremely tired. *yawn* I'll be around most of tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so it's done for the first Day - the Reps have been chosen. Now I am really, really curious as to what they are going to do with their newly acquired power. Speaking of that, I think it would be very nice if the Reps wrote, if only in a few words, whether they have some basic ideas on whom they would vote and so on (if they do), just so that we, the common folk, are not entirely left out of the game of the mighty. That said, in any case, I would like to urge the "common folk" to continue participating as much as we can, even continue toDay as if it was a normal Day and we ourselves were supposed to vote - I think that way, the extended 48-hour Day's full potential can be used.

Just a few notes to the ongoing phantom debate. I think I am beginning to partially see phantom's point of view, at least to a certain extent - at least, I know it is true that he considers Day 1s just random rubbish, and I can see the inner logic in what he says. Of course, he would behave like this whether he is innocent or not (and I disagree with him on several matters - like the argument with the probability of electing an innocent randomly; statistics, in my experience never work). The more I am actually interested in how he plans to use his votes, of which he now has several. And, that said, I am not really so keen on lynching him already on Day 1 just because he is the phantom. Unless he manages to lynch our Seer or something like that, which is not very probable, he won't be that dangerous even in his position. I mean, I there's been a bit of unnecessary demonisation of him. Let us just look at him as at one of our Reps, and judge him based on his actions.

I have to go now, but will hopefully pop in during the Day in several hours and then I will be back late in the evening (also metaphorically, time-wise: close to the DL). But meanwhile, keep it up, ye who be around...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Just letting you guys know that I am around, but it will probably take me a very long time to look through todays posts and comment on them.

[Isabellkya]

How exactly did they "toss away" their votes? They voted. End of story. If they had sat on their bums for a few hours and then voted for me, the result would've been the same- Phantom gains two votes.
They placed their votes, with what I believe to be no thought of your possible alignment or the outcome. You could of been outed as an Elf, who knows.

How is my vote better than theirs? I actually gave it thought, and used it to try and counter what they started in motion.

[quote]I have always been quick to defend people against arguments I consider to be flawed. Nerworc's arguments against tp were, in my opinion, flawed./quote]

I believe you responded to Nerwen of how could she distrust Phantom on banter. Well.. how could you trust him on banter?

It seems to me that you are defending him based nothing on what you think of his alignment. But because Nerwen's arguments against him, in your opinion were flawed.

Also. Sally's argument for phantom was flawed. That he as an Elf would not try to get rid of the Seer on the First Day. Who do you defend there, when you of course agreed with it. ;)

[Thinlómien]

I'm glad Shasta has taken up me and Greenie's crusade against phantom's silly arguments so I don't need to concentrate on it any longer, haha. I'm really puzzled though - is phantom 1) really seriously arguing about these things, 2) just too proud to admit he's been wrong and thus keeps coming up with rather weird arguments after each other or 3) trying to test people? I would think number 3 is the most probable option and number 2 the least probable one. I wonder what he's trying to achieve by that, though - only some kind of half of the village united against phantom situation, which is kind of weird. (This is to say, hint hint, phantom, stop arguing unless you really think your points are worth bringing up. :p)

(Sidenote: It's hard for me to be genuinely angry at Phantom after having met the guy, but man, he does frustrate me sometimes.)Well if it comforts you, my attitude towards him in ww hasn't changed a bit since I met him. ;)

We don't want a Rep who will cower and give-in to the other Rep(s). Representative dynamic is something to think about as well.Well yes, but we don't want to have reps who are unable to co-operate, either.

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps. I'm not too happy about phantom and me having more power than the others, but it's better that there's the two of us. And now I feel responsible...

I'd like to suggest that we kill Phantom this evening. Using his own logic, the first death is a stab in the dark anyway, so it may as well be him, right? Plus, he's beginning to really get on my nerves. He reminds me of my older brother a few years ago, before my older brother became a husband and a father...a stuck up know-it-all before he'd really met the world and been taken
down a few notches.*is amused*

Oh, and regarding the term "baddie"– I still refuse to submit to the phantom's dictum that we should speak of the village as "evil" and the wolves (Elves) as "good". Too confusing. I've been in reversed-alignment villages before, and we didn't do that.Seconded.

Nerwen, just 'cause Phantom has a huge ego doesn't mean we shouldn't deflate it for him. It would do him good, I imagine. He might be able to wear regular hat sizes again instead of having to special order them.!!! Brilliant. You know, though, when I met him in person I quite carelessly referred to him thinking about complicated schemes in his small head and that probably the worst offense anyone ever said to him. :D Poor phantom!

With that, I bid thee adieu as I take the rest of this day off. May the lynching be fruitful by serving us an SoE head on a silver platter!What? What about hanging around and telling us who you suspect and helping the reps making their choices?

For all you know you just elected a SoE, where as I know for a fact that the ladies you are criticizing elected an orc.That is not a valid argument unless you can prove you're an orc.

I would rather not attempt lynching tp toDay (unless there is stuff to point at his guilt) because it would further make the whole Day concentrate on him because he has a substantial amount of the total votes and he has made it quite clear he is going to use them to protect himself, which will potentially just cause damage in the form of making a random and ill-advised lynch.


PS. Does somebody else find reading tp's and Legate's signatures after each other highly amusing? *snicker*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boro
With that, I bid thee adieu as I take the rest of this day off. May the lynching be fruitful by serving us an SoE head on a silver platter!
What? What about hanging around and telling us who you suspect and helping the reps making their choices?
Maybe he means he can't be around? :confused:

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps.
*shrugs* If the SoE haven't managed to get one of their own elected, I don't think we have much to fear from them.

[Thinlómien]

Maybe he means he can't be around? :confused:Well that's what I kind of assumed too but why to announce it so happily...? :confused:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

If you're not evil, I can only assume you're a SoE. Is that what you're saying?


That might be what I am saying. . . You are a smart orc, you figure it out!

I am just a product of certain historical events and if you want to judge me by your own, quite possibly flawed, moral code then go ahead.




I really like this post of Rune's. He seems more clearheaded and focused than I usually see him (take this with a grain of salt as it's been ages since I played with the man), and I like it.


I know!

I love it my self, I seldom make as much sense as in that particular post. Of course this is because I did not write that post. . . You are infact basing your opinion of me on something Folwren said.

Inzil/Zil is also called Dun by a few people. I feel that it helps alleviate confusion in cases such as these.

Also, I think Bell would be lovely for our darling Izzy, should she undergo a name change. It's certainly easier to rhyme, and we know how important that is to our lovely moddess Fea. ;)

I support this. I always get very confused by those two names.

Your response has nothing to do with my statement. I did not say L & S had the same number of posts to read over when they voted, but rather that they knew the same exact amount when they voted. Actual knowledge. Something you can bank on. Reading through five pages of "I don't like those early votes!" and "I don't like Phantom!" and "You're wrong!" and "Let's not split votes!" does not qualify as gaining actual real knowledge. You can try and form a hunch based upon such things, but that is all.


I disagree, I find that they knew a bunch of stuff and that the knowledge was quite real. It is fine if your attitude to the voting process is that everything goes, but then I think you should stick with it through out the game.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This general idea that it is ideal with a lot of representatives with limited power is not one I can support, especially not the whole idea about implementing a system of voting. (Such as suggested by Nogrod and Wilwa)

In my humble opinion it is downright silly to make a "rule" that say only two votes per representative. You should vote for the person you find fit for the job and not some half-random person whos only merits is that they don't have two votes yet. . Not only does it provide excellent cover for SoE, but more importantly it is no fun.

I want political intrigue, I want representatives who abuse power and then get brutally punished come next election time. . . or more realistic, gets re-elected.

In my ideal world we would have one person with something like 49% of the votes, so that the rest of the representatives where forced to work together in order to get any influence. Then we would have dynamic system, with lots of negotiating and stuff to analyse. . .

Of course this is only in my ideal world, in our real orc world it would probably just mean that the strongest representative would get their way and the rest would be quiet.

Still I think it would be good for our system if we vote due to our believes and not "because Nogrod told me to do so" (Nogrod is just an example)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I really like this post of Rune's. He seems more clearheaded and focused than I usually see him (take this with a grain of salt as it's been ages since I played with the man), and I like it.
I know!

I love it my self, I seldom make as much sense as in that particular post. Of course this is because I did not write that post. . . You are infact basing your opinion of me on something Folwren said.

*is in hysterics*:D

(Btw, O King of Scavengers, I forgot to say this in the first part of the Day, but I of course love you to bits too.:Merisu:)

EDIT:X'd with Rune.

[Nerwen]

In my humble opinion it is downright silly to make a "rule" that say only two votes per representative. You should vote for the person you find fit for the job and not some half-random person whos only merits is that they don't have two votes yet. . Not only does it provide excellent cover for SoE, but more importantly it is no fun.

I want political intrigue, I want representatives who abuse power and then get brutally punished come next election time. . . or more realistic, gets re-elected.
No, I don't think we need a rule like that. But I did want multiple reps toDay, and no-one having absolute power– because as I said, that way the lynch most likely ends up telling us nothing.

EDIT:typo

[Nerwen]

So let's talk about people (other than phantom).

Rune, got any suspicions? Or thoughts, anyway?

[Thinlómien]

Just talked with Greenie on the phone. Apparently her internet died so that totally mucked up her participation plans and now she is heading to her start of term party so it's a bit unclear how she can participate. She might come to my place at night to read and vote quickly, or just call me (or Agan if you don't trust my impartiality ;)) to send her vote to Fea and Nienna if they accept it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So let's talk about people (other than phantom).

Rune, got any suspicions? Or thoughts, anyway?

Well, I do have a few thoughts.

I have been very surprised with the passion that Boro attacked Sally and Lottie's votes for the Phantom. He clearly put a lot of effort into the trash talking of these people. I am not totally unsympathetic to the points he made, but I don't think I have ever seen Boro act in that manner on a Day1. Just like Lommy he seems to have undergone some sort of change, only Lommy's change seems more natural to me.

It has to be said that I haven't played these games for a while, so am judging them on old memories.

After reading through the thread I have grown increasingly fond of Folwren, she seems be very to the point and actually makes a reasonable ammount of sense. I am not sure I agree with her thoughts about which kind of people who runs for representative #73, but that is the only thing I object to.

Legate and Nogrod seems very much like them selves. Nogrod is less active and haven't been fighting as much with me as usual, but that is surely due to his failing internet connection.

If I had been a representative I would probably end up voting for either Glirdan or Greenie or maybe Steve.
Glirdan seems to react to small things and I generally cannot figure him out.
Greenie and Steve would mostly be due to the way they have posted rather than actual wolfish speach. Greenie started out with a bunch of small comments to what people had said and then made a small list. . . I guess it is quite al right for a day1, but it just seemed like she was trying not to commit her self too much. I got much the same feeling from Steve, but as I said it is not something very concrete.

[Nogrod]

In a bit hurry right now (the pub is getting overcrowded with ice hockey supporters as the season begins today). I'll come back here later for some points I'm hopefully able to make then.

But I have read the stuff for now and must say I am pleased with us having seven representatives for D1. And to make it clear in the face of some points raised lately: I don't think we should have a "rule" that we should have the maximum number of representatives every Day. That would be a stupid rule indeed. We need to be flexible with the reps, but in the beginning I really think "the more the merrier".

Also I back the idea that we non-representatives should try to give all we can to the process. Let's help our representatives as much as we can - and treat people who shy away from helping as possible traitors trying to lay low purposefully.


I don't like doing this now - all this talk about tp - but it seems I have to...

So phantom, I do admire your energy and plotting, but tell us one thing. Well two things.

Why did you defend Sally & Lottie as ones who made a bright and intentional move in the beginning (which intention of theirs you explained to us in quite a detail instead of letting them tell us why they voted for you) but have now lapsed back into just talking about statistics?

Why did you first talk of their votes for you as something you triggered as a part of your masterplan but after being pointed out about the time-flaw (especially concerning Sally), have stayed quiet about it?


I'll try to come up with a list of people as to what I think about everyone later - and hopefully being also able to comment on the lively discussion that will happen while I'm away.

But I can say right now that you reps should have very strong reasons if you would lynch Shasta. It's not the fact that he argues against tp (tp might be innocent anyway), but it's the way he does it. I'd be almost as assured of Foley's innocence, but not just that much.

Boro is odd and Legate's posting makes me nervous.

Let's see if another read changes things, but these are the top of my impressions right now after quickly reading the stuff - and trying in vain to concentrate in an overcrowded and noisy pub...

EDIT: x'd with Lommy & Rune

[wilwarin538]

I'm here, in class right now so I'll be trying to read and catch up while also taking notes, but there should be a response from me very soon.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

She might come to my place at night to read and vote quickly, or just call me (or Agan if you don't trust my impartiality ;)) to send her vote to Fea and Nienna if they accept it.

This is acceptable. Just remember as you normally would to maintain role secrecy.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will be leaving now, I probably won't be back until very late and then only for short amount of time.

[Nerwen]

I will be leaving now, I probably won't be back until very late and then only for short amount of time.
We'll miss you, Runeorc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Oates):(

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The phantom will henceforth be known as phorc.

[Inziladun]

Well, I'm not displeased with the reps we have. I do think it's better to have several reps with a fairly even amount of power over one or two with a large number of votes.

k, I just briefly glanced over the forty plus posts I missed in my absense. I'd like to suggest that we kill Phantom this evening. Using his own logic, the first death is a stab in the dark anyway, so it may as well be him, right?

Heh. That's pretty good.

It is simply not logical that he could not see or concede how Sally's and Lottie's votes were indeed not logical or worth while. He could at LEAST concede that it would have made some more sense that they'd waited, but no, he argues that their votes were perfectly understandable, justifiable, and even comendable.

That's the way I see the Sally and Lottie votes too. I don't know whether tp is a SoE, but I flat-out disagree with him on this. And it feels likely that there's a SoE among the three of them.

Oh, and regarding the term "baddie"– I still refuse to submit to the phantom's dictum that we should speak of the village as "evil" and the wolves (Elves) as "good". Too confusing. I've been in reversed-alignment villages before, and we didn't do that.

I've been having a hard time with that too. Why make things more confusing than necessary?

That said, in any case, I would like to urge the "common folk" to continue participating as much as we can, even continue toDay as if it was a normal Day and we ourselves were supposed to vote - I think that way, the extended 48-hour Day's full potential can be used.

I don't want the non-reps to just switch off in the latter half of the Day either. For that reason, I don't like Boro's saying he was pretty much done with toDay.

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps. I'm not too happy about phantom and me having more power than the others, but it's better that there's the two of us.

I think it's likely SoE's managed to get at least one of themselves elected. Why wouldn't they? But having a larger number of voting reps gives us more to work with toMorrow.

I would rather not attempt lynching tp toDay (unless there is stuff to point at his guilt) because it would further make the whole Day concentrate on him because he has a substantial amount of the total votes and he has made it quite clear he is going to use them to protect himself, which will potentially just cause damage in the form of making a random and ill-advised lynch.

Vexing as tp is, I don't think he should be the sole focus for the rest of toDay, and I don't know I'd vote for his lynch. But I probably would go for him, Sally, or Lottie.

[Nerwen]

Hey, was the site down for anyone else?

[wilwarin538]

So class was a bit more interactive than usual, and I therefore couldn't really go my computer, and then my lunch brake kind of got stolen from me, now I have another class and my laptop is dying and people have already claimed all the outlits. So you won't be hearing anything from me for a couple more hours. Sorry, just bad luck today for computer time (I usually have so much!).

[Nerwen]

Vexing as tp is, I don't think he should be the sole focus for the rest of toDay, and I don't know I'd vote for his lynch. But I probably would go for him, Sally, or Lottie.
The way phantom keeps changing his mind about what his "ploy" was supposed to accomplish (sorry, don't have time to quote now) is quite eyebrow-raising, but unless he does something impossibly Elfish, he's pretty safe from the lynch toDay (with his three votes). And Lottie is puzzling me quite a lot. But then, in the opposite corner, there is also Boro– it's true he's being strange too, though I'd want to see more of him.

Oh, and Mirandir. Her vote was weird.

Back later.

EDIT:Added comment.

[Boromir88]

What? What about hanging around and telling us who you suspect and helping the reps making their choices?

Nope. You said I needed vacation right? So, I'm going to take it. I can't vote and I'm not going to lobby for anyone's death. My standard approach when I do have a vote on Day 1, it is to try and not do anything catastrophically stupid. I read all the posts, figure out a few of the people who look good and trustworthy, but not so much who looks bad. Thus, with no information other than what people decide to say openly, my Day 1 votes become based on who I don't want to see lynched at that point and not so much a vote on who I think is definitely evil.

For this is something that phantom is right about, when it comes to sally, Lottie, and Mira's votes for him. Anyone who looks like they know too much either really does know too much or is faking it for some reason. I don't see much benefit to an SoE looking like they know too much, because it is that very act which usually gets them in trouble. Thus, some one faking they know too much is probably an ordo trying to paint a target on their backs so the SoEs kill them and not the seer, or they really do know too much and it's good chance that person is evil.

Beyond that, I won't be able to add much, sorry. I mean I could say a bunch of random comments like "phantom is up to something," but saying phantom is up to something, is like saying I will drink anything...like really...anything. This thread is already going to get epically long, I care not to clog it up more with captain obvious statements. You know who I feel pretty decent about, and who I don't. I'm not going to lobby for anyone's lynching when I aint got a clue.

Now if I understand Shasta, Nerwen, and Foley's objection to those who voted phantom as a rep, instead of feigning information, it looks like they are feigning ignorance and are hiding behind random votes to look innocent. Eh, as silly as it is, I don't think there's evil intent there. I've already shared my opinion on those three votes, and one thing I will not stand for is to be mis-represented *glares at Rune*


I have been very surprised with the passion that Boro attacked Sally and Lottie's votes for the Phantom. He clearly put a lot of effort into the trash talking of these people. I am not totally unsympathetic to the points he made, but I don't think I have ever seen Boro act in that manner on a Day1. Just like Lommy he seems to have undergone some sort of change, only Lommy's change seems more natural to me.


I did not attack either of their votes. I said their votes actually looked innocent.

With regards to Mira, it's funny, because Foley said something about how it looks like she hasn't been paying attention, but Mira said that exact thing in her posts. Mira has no method to her decisions beyond "I like what you're saying, you've got my support. I don't like what you're saying, I'm going to kill you." It makes her a formidable wear-bear because it's nearly untrackable. But ultimately a poor wolf strategy, because you need to work with others and come up with some plan of attack. Trust me, you'd be able to tell if Mira was evil, because even if she would still have no method, her excitement at being evil is simply uncontainable. You would literally be able to read it straight out of her posts.

My disappointment was more to say "Really, Mira? That's all it takes to get bribed? Psh...easy. You should get lynched for that and I won't take the noose for you this time."

Boro in particular- it's one of the main reasons I'm suspicious of you, as given your usual method of operating you would've seen two advantages in particular in doing what I have done and would have attempted to hint to me to the fact that you knew what I was doing. I mean, as far as "ploys" go this one is rather more obvious than those I typically favor.

Like I said, you're always doing something, but I can't read your mind here. I can see what you're doing, I just don't know whom for yet. You know I will drink with ye, but I carry a blade and never turn my back for a reason. I trust nothing here except my own eyes and ears. I look out for myself, and make sure the good businesses here stay in business, that's it. I care not what happened centuries ago, and I care not to partake in any of it. I these no-good-uppity Elves think they can come in here and start a fight because they can't let go of a grudge, I say bring it. But if anyone is going to insist we deserve what the SoE's are coming here to do because of something that happened centuries ago, or insist I would have partaken in it, is no lad of mine.

Edit: crossed with Wilwa and Nerwen

[Nienna]

The phantom will henceforth be known as phorc.

*likes*

[Mirandir]

Trust me, you'd be able to tell if Mira was evil, because even if she would still have no method, her excitement at being evil is simply uncontainable. You would literally be able to read it straight out of her posts.

My disappointment was more to say "Really, Mira? That's all it takes to get bribed? Psh...easy. You should get lynched for that and I won't take the noose for you this time."


It's true. Also dear, you're contradicting yourself. You just said I'm not evil, but deserve to be lynched. Why advocate lynching someone who you said yourself isn't evil?

[Inziladun]

Oh, and Mirandir. Her vote was weird.

As eye-roll-inducing as Mira's vote was, it was probably too reckless to be something a Mirandelf would do.

[the phantom]

They placed their votes, with what I believe to be no thought of your possible alignment or the outcome.
But I have no clue about the alignment of my rep either (Cel). And you don't know what your rep's alignment is. And when it comes to hunches, we have zero kills and lynches to help us decide and haven't reached a stopping point (night) where we can go back and reread the day's action.

Can you people please grasp this? The difference on Day 1 of rep-voting between voting first and voting last is extremely minimal! Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.
How is my vote better than theirs? I actually gave it thought, and used it to try and counter what they started in motion.
Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

I mean, seriously- all of you people are taking these Day 1 rep votes way too seriously at this stage. Last time we did this it was more like, "Hey, so and so never says anything. I think I'll force them to show up and vote by making them a rep on this first day." You people are just way too anxious to grasp at things.

Rune- happy to see someone else who is skeptical of old Boro. We need to be watching him.
Why did you defend Sally & Lottie as ones who made a bright and intentional move in the beginning (which intention of theirs you explained to us in quite a detail instead of letting them tell us why they voted for you) but have now lapsed back into just talking about statistics?

Why did you first talk of their votes for you as something you triggered as a part of your masterplan but after being pointed out about the time-flaw (especially concerning Sally), have stayed quiet about it?
Regarding the first paragraph, I tried to focus more on the actual outcome of the vote (did they vote an orc?) after I saw that no one was grasping the idea about Sally and Lottie actually being quite useful in kick-starting things and shaking and moving and spurring everyone on.

Making that sort of argument actually makes it look like I'm calling the votes overall good, but obviously everyone was too stuck in their thinking to stomach that, so I figured I was asking for a bit much and started concentrating more on showing why their votes were not bad. I mistakenly thought that it would be easier for people to see that point.

And how exactly did I not trigger Lottie? I did. Sally on the other hand- she did what falls into my first argument quite well. She jumped in and immediately fired a shot. So well done.

Or are you referencing where I stated, "I got the vote train rolling". I wasn't implying that I had somehow posted before Sally's vote, but rather I had in mind the simple fact that I was the one openly asking for votes plus I had received the first two votes. Isn't that enough to be able to claim that I got the train rolling?
The way phantom keeps changing his mind about what his "ploy" was supposed to accomplish (sorry, don't have time to quote now) is quite eyebrow-raising
I'm not changing it, dearie, it just had many layers to it, some of which have yet to be revealed.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Your response has nothing to do with my statement. I did not say L & S had the same number of posts to read over when they voted, but rather that they knew the same exact amount when they voted. Actual knowledge. Something you can bank on. Reading through five pages of "I don't like those early votes!" and "I don't like Phantom!" and "You're wrong!" and "Let's not split votes!" does not qualify as gaining actual real knowledge. You can try and form a hunch based upon such things, but that is all.
You can't simply disregard what can be gained by reading the things that people say, either. I simply do not understand why you're doing so, and saying that we should do the same.

Legate's #206 makes me uneasy - it's a relatively large post that says nothing but the obvious, as if he's participating but not really.

I'm glad Shasta has taken up me and Greenie's crusade against phantom's silly arguments so I don't need to concentrate on it any longer, haha.
Pish. "Taken up"? I believe I started the whole thing, thank you very much. :p

I love it my self, I seldom make as much sense as in that particular post. Of course this is because I did not write that post. . . You are infact basing your opinion of me on something Folwren said.
...
...
...
Whoops. I feel like a lamebrain now, for sure.

Edit: X'ed with phorc.

[Boromir88]

It's true. Also dear, you're contradicting yourself. You just said I'm not evil, but deserve to be lynched. Why advocate lynching someone who you said yourself isn't evil?

There's a difference between choosing not to oppose something, and advocating for it. Even if it was Day 1, you were bribed by phantom far too easily. Show a little more care with your votes, which would be deserving that I risk my neck for you, and you know I will. Until then, I've said my thoughts on your alignment, the Reps can listen or not, either way doesn't matter to me. You haven't done anything to show you'd be a terrible loss even if I think you're innocent.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.
Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on. You can do better than that. Trying to lash back against those who find you suspicious by calling them suspicious (which is what you're doing) is a baddie hallmark.

Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

Last I checked, this game was about catching Elves, not 'proving Phantom right'. Whether or not you are correct about whether or not Day 1 voting is flimsy is highly irrelevant. The point here is that Izzy gave her vote some thought, whereas Sally and Lottie did not (although given Lottie's defense of her vote, which I'm going to go back and read again, I may change my opinion on her).

Edit: X'ed with Bororc.

[Thinlómien]

Boro, explanation accepted. :p
Phantom, I should probably ignore your posts henceforth because otherwise I will just start writing counter-argument novels.

Not too worried about atm
Boro
Foley
Greenie
Legate
Nog
Rune
Stëonwë

Slightly worried about atm
Celuien
Glirdy
Izzy
Kath
Lottie
Mira
Nerwen
Phantom
Shasta
Wilwa
Zil

Mostly the people on the first list are people I feel good about, the rest are lumped to list 2. I'm really rather lost about the SoE's identities, if I had to make a shot in the dark I'd say Sally, Celuien, Glirdy and Wilwa but I really have no idea at all, especially the two last names on the list are total randomness. I still think not all tp voters are innocent, and after a bit of thinking I think the most probable option for a nasty elf is Sally (Lottie has defended her actions as if she really was doing the right thing and Mira was too careless to be a wolf). Celuien I just have a random bad feeling about, and the same goes to lesser extent for Glirdy and to even lesser extent for Wilwa.


edit: xed with Shastax2 and Boro

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think the most probable option for a nasty elf is Sally (Lottie has defended her actions as if she really was doing the right thing and Mira was too careless to be a wolf).

I endorse this comment completely - it's exactly what I was thinking.

[Folwren]

I'd say that Mirandir's vote was more annoying than suspicious, really. If she had indeed read next to nothing and paid next to no attention to what was going on, then little wonder she voted for Phantom. Chances are, she was acting flippantly, like most people do on day one, and was running with Phantom's joke. If it had not been for the fact that the discussion about Phantom's voters had been going on all day, her vote would have been perfectly acceptable as a first day sort of jokingness. I don't think Mirandir is worthy of lynching.

And after spending a considerable amount of time reading lots of posts, I have nothing further to say and no more time to say it in. We've practically beaten the Sally-and-Lottie-baseless-votes-for-phantom issue to death, so I'll leave it be.

I'm off. And may not be back on much at all before deadline.

X-posted with Lommy and Shasta.

[Isabellkya]

In my humble opinion it is downright silly to make a "rule" that say only two votes per representative. You should vote for the person you find fit for the job and not some half-random person whos only merits is that they don't have two votes yet. . Not only does it provide excellent cover for SoE, but more importantly it is no fun.

I want political intrigue, I want representatives who abuse power and then get brutally punished come next election time. . . or more realistic, gets re-elected.

In my ideal world we would have one person with something like 49% of the votes, so that the rest of the representatives where forced to work together in order to get any influence. Then we would have dynamic system, with lots of negotiating and stuff to analyse. . .

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

I do agree, that we should all be voting for who we think would do a good job; but who we think is an Orc first. Because an Elf could do a splendid job, but that is counterproductive.

But I have no clue about the alignment of my rep either (Cel). And you don't know what your rep's alignment is. And when it comes to hunches, we have zero kills and lynches to help us decide and haven't reached a stopping point (night) where we can go back and reread the day's action.
I never claimed that I knew for certain the alignment of who I voted for. However, I did give it thought - which is a difference between the votes. If people were unable to get information from other players in regards to their alignment, then what exactly is the point of having a Day phase? Hmm? You seem to think that information relies solely on what occurs during Night. Which is ridiculously .. flawed and lazy. Your entire stance is rather odd, and it definitely shows you are up to something - but when aren't you. It also seems like you are faking here, and I question how it is productive and good for the Cave.

Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

I said my vote in particular. I didn't vote solely on the thought of trying to counter what you and your lackeys tried doing. I also thought of alignment, and who I thought was a possible Orc. Again, a rather large difference.


I think the phorc/Loslote/Sally triangle needs to be figured out at one point or another, otherwise it will continue to vie for attention.


Currently wouldn't vote for:
Folwren
Lommy
Nog
Shasta
Wilwa
Dun
Mira

Every one else is pretty iffy, or no read. I have Mira up there because I think she was in a 'no time, must vote' state of mind.

[Thinlómien]

Feeling tired and lazy. Shall go through the posting more or less (probably "less") carefully and then vote.

Un-reps, who would you like to see lynched toDay?

[Thinlómien]

Wait...

Lottie #9
This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you. :p



...yet.

tp #10
And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Lottie #14
Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time! :p

tp #17 and #18
PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

Lottie #19
I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

What the???

Lottie, I've heard your resonings but this is plain weird. Is your mind really that easily turned?

Btw if I may discuss phantom I'd like to say that he'd just love his fellow wolves to vote him as rep because
1) then he gets power and he probably believes to be the most able to use it in the wolf team anyway
and
2) then he has a good excuse not to vote his fellows for a lynch because he hates doing that.
Makes me think that if phantom dies and is proved a wolf, I would really look at Lottie, Sally and Mira. (Just imagine if they would be our four wolves! That would be almost ingenious in its absurdity.)

Back to reread...

[the phantom]

You can't simply disregard what can be gained by reading the things that people say, either. I simply do not understand why you're doing so, and saying that we should do the same.
I'm not telling you to disregard what people say! By all means, try to gain a feel for people. I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.
Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.
Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on.
*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc). A part of me is truly curious if any of the attackers of those ladies are truly of that mindset, but I'm fully aware odds are it isn't the case with most.

Oh, and just because I am evil, here is a quote from me at the very beginning of the last voting republic style game we did with Fea-
I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?
To which you replied-
More like pessimistic thought, but sadly you're probably correct.
See? You used to agree with me about this sort of thing. ;)

And Folwren, m'dear, you actually proved my points quite nicely when you were talking about Mira.
Chances are, she was acting flippantly, like most people do on day one, and was running with Phantom's joke. If it had not been for the fact that the discussion about Phantom's voters had been going on all day, her vote would have been perfectly acceptable as a first day sort of jokingness.
Thank you!! This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

That's what I've been arguing the whole time! That this sort of thing is just fine within the scope of Werewolfing and is usually not treated so seriously by so many people! So, there now people. Now that you've seen someone on your side admit to my entire premise (two people actually if you count Shasta from last game), are you able to see where I'm coming from here?

Now I'm just left wondering- are so many people having the same unusual reaction to this due to some sort of plan, or is it simply the lemming effect that is quite common in these contests?

[Nogrod]

Hah. I finally got a place to sit and to plug my laptop into the mains...

So here's what little I managed to write down while being at home - with a few addenda skimming fast what has happened meanwhile...


Depending on the answer the phantom might have given to my questions (if he has), I’m pending my opinion whether to call for the “historical feat Fea would love so much” and lynch him on D1, or whether to give him a chance to show his qualities this time as well…

ADD: I'm probably not advicing anyone to lynch him but I might complain about his latest explanation anyway. :p


I think I see where you tp are coming from, but that doesn’t remove the fact that Sally’s vote was soo stupid. I will not vote for Sally for a representative in this game. I can’t let that kind of judgements decide on life and death issues – even if it was made on D1. Really. That’s a promise. Sorry Sally, but you're too reckless. Your try of turning the gaze on Shasta and Nerwen after your return was kind of pathetic – and don’t say you just joked.

I don’t mean playing werewolf should be a grave matter or that winning is important (actually I do prefer a good game lost to a lousy game won), but one should at least try to play by the rules – in their spirit, not only by the book. Light-heartedness can be fun and constructive at the same time. Now it feels Sally just tried to duck the fence from the lowest point to get through to the next Day by allying herself with tp who she knew would then talk on behalf of her if she flattered him enough…

Lottie seems to go to and fro in the beginning and her efforts of trying to cover tp (and her own choice) later have been eyebrow-raising to say the least. The basic problem here is that I know I normally end up suspecting Lottie when she’s innocent and so I’m wavering a bit here. But really, Lottie can’t defend tp for his arguments “containing no illogical jumps” (as she says in response to Foley). Actually this way of clinging to an explanation of her vote provided by the phantom in retrospect looks pretty fishy – whatever phantom’s role.

I do like Nerwen’s attitude but there are two little things you might say are irrelevant, but I find them disturbing enough: she calls those she decides to suspect “orclings” and the suggestion of someone signaling to others when she tried to suspect Lottie is quite odd indeed… like she tried just to add on top of some already existing general suspicions with no real basis…

ADD: Also her latest open suspicion on Mira is more like an easy throw away than anything she would have really contemplated on. I dislike Mira’s vote as well, but really, it looks like she just didn’t read the thread…

And then there’s this.

With that, I bid thee adieu as I take the rest of this day off. May the lynching be fruitful by serving us an SoE head on a silver platter!

What? What about hanging around and telling us who you suspect and helping the reps making their choices?

Maybe he means he can't be around? :confused:
Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).


Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps.Interesting point from Lommy. I do belong to those people who think we can lynch a villain on D1 in a normal game, and that those who diss D1’s are more often than not villains themselves (villains love randomness – or talking about the randomness of D1 - as it leaves no trace to them), but in this kind of a game I think it would turn out actually good to see one or two enemies on the lines of the representatives on D1. Maybe even toMorrow. Whatever. The point is we should choose also the enemies as representatives on D1 and not only those leaning on the success of the village: that’s the best way to put them into danger. On D1 – and possibly on D2 – probably not much later in the game.

Remember the first things we can read in any way are the choices of the representatives. If all the reps are innocents, and an innocent is lynched, we’re quite easily led to concentrate only on innocents toMorrow. Therefore at this point (at this point, mind you) we need some SoE’s for representatives. I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?

ADD: I'm not going to lobby for anyone's lynching when I aint got a clue.Being a bit too modest or withholding something are you? Really. This just doesn't make sense. And let's not argue about the meaning of the term "lobbying".

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & phantom

[Kath]

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!

[Nogrod]

Great udders of relief! Kath is here, naturally - on technical terms - missing D1... :D

[Thinlómien]

Lottie is really very careless and confident in the beginning of Day1. Reminds me of a wolf who's happy with her pack and thinks they'll win... or a happy-happy orco. She also gives the impression that she is voting first and then coming up with reasons afterwards. Hmm... Wonder if I should change my mind about her.

I might also take my word back on not voting phantom. His frolicking really irks me... doesn't he really have more important stuff to say? Admittedly, he's been speaking more sense lately.

Legate's wishy-washiness sort of disturbs me but I think it's just his style and I always suspect him based on that to some extent or another. I think I also suspect Glirdan mostly based on his style as always.

I would put Nerwen and Zil to the same category - I like what they're saying but I don't really trust them. Shasta could almost be there too, but I both trust and distrust him more than the other two. Mostly because I'm imagining him laughing his wicked laugh behind the screen. :D

Kath should be here. I shouldn't be surprised she misses a Day1 but this one is twice as long as a normal one. (Ha! random non-native English speaker 'downer: "Kath, what do you call this kind of meat?" Kath: "Long." :D <3)

I'm trying to determine whether Nogrod seems (on second thought) suspiciously refrained - because of wolvishness or because of lack of internet access. Or both? Or neither? Anyway you get my point.

Folwren is smart and funny but I'm wondering if she's as innocent as she seems. There's something quite careful about the way she posts, which could indicate guilt. All in all there is some honest straightforwardness in her habit nonetheless, so I'm not too worried in the absence of further "proof".

Also wondering what to make of the large anti-phantom front (like, people opposing his thoughts and questioning his logic). It might be as simple as that many people saw the flaw in his (honest or schemical) argumentation.

Read the first 2 pages now and starting a new post for further points if there are any... see, I'm keeping the discussion active and learning to make shorter posts! ;)


edit: xed with everybody - good, I'll read and reply before continuing the reread!

[Eönwë]

So... finally caught up... sort of.

Comments to come.

[Thinlómien]

I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.It does. The End.

This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!Unfortunately, Folwren is just one out of the many people who disagree with your point. I proudly disapprove of joke votes and random votes!

I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?Because I write on this thread about 90% of what I'm thinking during the game. Writing posts is an essential part of my thought process, and that's why I flip-flop so much. I am not too happy about SoE reps even though there are good sides to that too. Votes are not, after all, the only thing we can base our conclusions on.

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!Hi! *waves*


xed with Steonve

[Nogrod]

Heh, I just got your game in the most concrete form tp...

Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on.
*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc).:D

You're like the advents of psychoanalysis who say that every motive in your life stems from the sexual trauma you have for the opposing sex parent of yours - and if the other denies or doesnt't believe your explanation - they say the theory also holds there will be a "defence" in you denying the obvious truth... :rolleyes:

And everything here stands or falls with the personal believability of the analyst.

I mean really. You can't say of every suspicion on you that it was misconstructed - or if you have to admit it was well constructed - that you made it on purpose to check things... Or well, you obviously seem to be able to do that, but don't expect everyone to buy it forever.

Although I'd more like to talk about others now. Really.