WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Eönwë]

I am still baffled by this flood of belated Kitanna defense (Kit, if you're reading this, you should feel loved :D) not only from Boro and Sally but now from Eönwë too. With the risk of sounding entirely knee-jerk, I have to say it seems to me it's quite likely one of them is a wolf (or a lover??) taking the act too far. Actually possibly most likely Eönwë, the latecomer to the woe party. (And really, I don't want to diss you guys for being right. You were and are right. Kitanna was innocent - not that anyone's disputing it anymore anyway. But just please don't act like us others are the stupidest ever or totes manipulated by wolves, because that's not true. Kitanna looked very bad yesterDay, and there were four people who were analyzing her or her interactions with Mac and finding something fishy there. There's no way all those four were wolves who had decided to orchestrate a lynch because we only have two wolves left.) I'm just frustrated that I didn't get a chance to post yesterDay, so it's particularly annoying that one of the few people I didn't suspect at all was the one that was chosen, and I couldn't do anything about it. Also, two of the people I suspect quite a bit voted Kitanna and got away with it.

[Eönwë]

Looking at some interactions I've found suspicious.
{} = my own comments
{*} Added more of the original post for context than is actually quoted.

Day 1

Inzil of House Tully's comments on Wilwa's points seem more looking-to-be-helpful rather than actually helpful to me. Then again, Encai finds him helpful, so maybe I'm too eager to find something suspicious in what little has been posted so far.Come now, sir. It's difficult enough to suppress my natural desire to vote for you. Then again, it might be more worrisome if you didn't fire a shot or two my way Day 1. :rolleyes:

{*} [...]

I'm the Targaryen!:rolleyes:This coming in response to the slightest early Day One suspicion? Woah, there.Now, now. For some reason I always want to suspect you, and it seems its mutual. I want to give you a pass though toDay. As I said, if you ignored me or thought I seemed innocent I would be more concerned. On second thought, I think Inzil looks quite innocent. I will ignore him for now. :p

{Mac's previous post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692259&postcount=96) for context.}

[Eönwë]

Zil's vote:
I can't see anyone else who pings the radar as much, so it's

++skip

Mac deciding who to vote: While I'm not feeling particularly well about Skip myself, I do not like that bandwaggon at all.

Of my "top suspects" only Inzil has gotten a vote, but I don't feel remotely confident enough about him either to try and get a bandwaggon for him on the rails. Voting for Kitanna or Boro would seem like a throwaway at this point, too, not that I feel strongly about them either.

I do not know who to vote for. :(
Mac's vote:I have to dash, so here's my vote real quick now.

++Inziladun

Don't lynch me, ok. :)


Thoughts: The constant flirting (for want of a better word) of the "Oh, I suspect you! Not really!" or "I always suspect you haha! Vote!" sort made me suspect they might actually be really bold lovers on Day 1. But the fact is, Zil is talking about how Mac's suspicious but he won't actually vote him because he's 'giving him a pass for the Day', and Mac is voting Zil but with no actual backing. (I mean, it is Day 1, but still...) And he waits until he sees Skip has a clear lead, and then votes for Zil. That seems suspicious to me, because he could just about claim that there was still time for a Zilwaggon (and that it wasn't really a throwaway vote, which he denounced), but he left it long enough that it was unlikely.

Now onto Day 2...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

To Lommy: whether you are a villain or not I very much like your last post. To clarify: I was really on no high horse when I asked for some Kitanna-explanation; I was only straight-forwardly asking "Ok, guys, let's collect ourselves - can someone please explain this to me" rather than "you jerks got some explaining to do."

Sally, I get frustration in WW (though I personally haven't felt it for years and years) but you have to recognise that your post today didn't make much sense. What are the innocent villagers supposed to make of it?

I perhaps had a similar reaction on Day 1, when I was fairly certain that the Skip-bandwagon was a total mistake, but I obviously wasn't absolutely certain - I couldn't be unless I was evil.

Of course, I love it when people make strong cases in these games, and those who don't can be labelled as playing 'safe', but there are better ways to do it, I reckon. And now I'm still very confused by you and Boro.

But for now I'm gonna put my confusion on hold and attempt to focus on other players. I for sure need to look at Enca and Rikae who have escaped my attention thus far.

[Eönwë]

Day 2

I'll get working on that, but let me get that "your side" thing out of the way first. No idea why I wrote "your" instead of "our", to be honest. I tried to track it back, and the best I can think of is that I was referring to Skip's "WW is a game of numbers and the way I see things, the numbers favour a quick reveal.", which I didn't quote, but which came from the same post that I did quote. So I guess I must've been thinking about "his" numbers-comment when I wrote "your" numbers instead of "our".
You're lucky I missed that, as I could certainly have thought it voteworthy.

{Back on the "you're suspicious" track}


Suspicious(-ish): Boro, Inzil, Wyth, Lommy, Volo, Eomer

On another note, maybe Boro can explain his vote for me? Mac's follow-up may have been out of spite, I don't know. He and I have a history of suspecting one another (usually falsely) from the start of a game, and what I said about him yesterDay was a reflection of that. Maybe it had been so long since he played that he forgot about it.

{Still continuing the same thing}


He and I have a history of suspecting one another (usually falsely)That's not making me any less suspicious of you. At all. ;)

[Eönwë]

And then Mac goes into full suspicion mode:

Some good points were raised against Inzil, so I had to go take a look myself.

When I saw the voting yesterDay. I thought Wilwa's looked the worst , but now I might say Kit.

So...
- Your own suspicion aside, you voted with people you thought were sketchy, however:
- You did not mention any of this when you did vote.
- You did not post again after your vote, and you crossed your vote with Wilwa, so, unless you were lurking (after voting a whole hour before the deadline!), you did not actually see much of the voting, at least not yesterDay.

I could see the placement of his vote as something a Lion would do, but I do think it would have been more desirable for one to have placed a bandwagon vote in the middle.

You don't say. ;)
I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.


Where?
Rikae first raises points against Skip in #75, and Loslote submits the first vote for him in #83. You didn't post in between them. You talk a bit about him in #51, but you can't call that casting suspicion.
I thought at first, maybe he came up with his own points and didn't realize somebody else already gave them - happens - but you can't make such a mistake honestly anymore after the first vote was cast.
Ok. I was thinking only of the skip voters who preceded me.


I don't think this makes sense.


Defend yourself, sir! ;)

Not particularly sure what he means by this:
EDIT: I realize that Inzil doesn't go together with "the lions were probably comfortable". I'll look up "consistent" in the dictionary some time. :smokin:


So...
- Your own suspicion aside, you voted with people you thought were sketchy, however:
- You did not mention any of this when you did vote.
- You did not post again after your vote, and you crossed your vote with Wilwa, so, unless you were lurking (after voting a whole hour before the deadline!), you did not actually see much of the voting, at least not yesterDay.
I read the results of the Day afterward. That's a pretty small thing for you to focus upon.

As for the "defense" of myself, I've pretty much said all I can to explain my vote for skip.
It really looks odd the way this Day started with "Mac could be the Bear/a Lion", and yet now the focus has been moved onto me.

I'm at the point now that I think knowing Mac's role could give some useful info.

++Mac

++Inziladun

For reasons stated above.

(And a tiiiny bit of self-preservation.)



So, after Day 2, I'm not so sure. At the end, they turn on each other, but this is likely no matter what Zil's role is. Either an attempt at self-preservation for Mac, or distancing from each other if one of them gets killed and they're both lions. Or a bit of both (splitting the vote to try to maybe get someone else lynched?). Anyway, I wouldn't say Day 2 makes him any more suspicious, but I'd still put Zil in the "suspicious" category because he hasn't done anything that makes him seem more innocent (I still need to give yesterDay a thorough reread, so this may change).

[Eönwë]

On a side note, after going through Day 2, I wonder if there's more to Rikae and Zil's argument than meets the eye...

Anyway, back to rereading.

[Eönwë]

I think I missed this rather key quote:

Well, I would if I were them - getting the hunter sooner would mean a greater chance of an innocent being killed. You're right, though, in that case Mac looks good. If they thought she was the seer (though I don't see anything particularly seerish about her), Mac would be incriminated.
Well, in Mac's shoes I'd have thought it too risky.

[WythDryden]

I'd like to believe Sally's innocence (or at least non-wolfness) from her post at #485. I admit I thought it was a little suspicious how sure she could be, especially after how many of the votes were cast already, and it's easy for a wolf to take that role. But to react that strongly after the fact AND be a wolf would be a very DIRTY tactic. I would be sure to remember something like that in any other game we played together.

And to agree with Eonwe about his suspicions with Zil/Mac. It felt like their rivalry was a little forced through all their interactions, and by day 2, they were both the most suspicious. At that point turning against each other is really the only move, because one way or the other one of them was going to be lynched. May as well make a last ditch effort to make yourself look good right? And if true, it was successful, as Zil managed to survive day 3. I keep waffling at this point on him. At the moment, I'm squinty-eyed though.

Edit: X/d Eonwe #508

[Inziladun]

What kind of bothers me is your insistence that Kit was somehow self-evidently innocent and your willingness to jump on everyone who thought differently. I mean you do understand that only the lions knew that Kit was not one of them.

Exactly. I'm sorry, but someone who isn't the Seer railing "why did you vote X when I told you not to?" rubs me the wrong way.

You can't honestly say Kitanna didn't look suspicious yesterDay. If your confusion about the kills and your reaction to it didn't look so innocent, I'd be very inclined to point a finger at you and say "wolf playing the saint since didn't take part in an innocent lynch", but that I guess would be just knee-jerky suspicion. When I've misjudged something, I don't want it rubbed in my face by the likes of you, Eomer.

As a side note, toDay seems to be the Day when people start getting emotional and frustrated (yours truly included), so let's just all take a deep breath and calm down. This is supposed to be a fun game. Everybody makes mistakes, everybody gets suspected, and the village doesn't always do what you think is right. Let's not let that ruin any of our fun.

Agreed totally.

So, after Day 2, I'm not so sure. At the end, they turn on each other, but this is likely no matter what Zil's role is. Either an attempt at self-preservation for Mac, or distancing from each other if one of them gets killed and they're both lions. Or a bit of both (splitting the vote to try to maybe get someone else lynched?). Anyway, I wouldn't say Day 2 makes him any more suspicious, but I'd still put Zil in the "suspicious" category because he hasn't done anything that makes him seem more innocent (I still need to give yesterDay a thorough reread, so this may change).[/I]

Well, all I can say about Mac I've said. I may have given him the opening to tie me to him in the event he was lynched, but I can't help that now.

x/d with Eönwë and Wyth

[Rikae]

So, okay, apparently later Eomer gets down from his high horse. Eomer, the way I see it that a bunch of people (who maybe hadn't posted at all when you went away?) had their own reasons to suspect Kitanna or were convinced by other people's points. Don't forget Greenie analyzed Kitanna's posts, and Copper, Rikae and I analyzed Mac's interactions with people. Unless I misremember, all we who read through Kit and/or Mac's posting found Kitanna at least somewhat suspicious based on that.


This is all I said about Kitanna in my analysis:
I can't see him outright calling his suspicion for a fellow Lannister “very flimsy”, so I feel better about Kitanna.

So yeah, I'm one of those who "knew" Kitanna was innocent, along with Boro, Eomer and Eonwe. :rolleyes: There you go, all four baddies for you.

Nog is the one who's really bothering me toDay, math aside. I just get a feeling he's trying to subtly steer conversation in unhelpful directions. Innocent Nog might do the same, but he'd do it more blatantly!

Others I don't feel so good about would be Encai (still) and Inzil, for wolf-on-wolfishness.

Unfortunately I'm going to have to vote early toDay.

[Rikae]

Ok, just reading back a bit and I noticed something odd. Apparently Lommy listed me as one of those "defending Kit" (rightly), but toDay she lumps me in with those who argued against her.

*Adds Lommy to list of suspects*

[Eönwë]

Day 1

Mac Connington's - or should we call him Mr. Griff - toying with the Targaryen-revealment is probably the only thing that caught my eye thus far. Although I'm not sure I can see a reason for anyone to do that kind of thing (be it a correct or a false hint). *baffled*

What Greenie Reed just quoted...Well, maybe. The numbers may be on your side, but it would also mean we'd be without a proper analyzable wolf kill for two Nights. That doesn't help us.That is an interesting phrasing indeed! Especially when the ex-Lannister Skip has been talking about the numbers being good for the village...

G55 and Mac probably aren't both lions (see G55's vote on Mac - unnecessary on D1 especially as Mac had been suspected by a couple of people already). But one of then could very well be (I'd rather vote G55). Unsure if he'd put this suspicion out there if a lion, because if he were planning on killing G55 at the time, he would be leading to a Mac lynch. At the same time, it would be good dissociation if a Mac lynch were inevitable in the future and he could chime in with a past suspicion and look good.[/QUOTE]

And with Mac's comment, did he perhaps just mean that the numbers were on Skip's side in the sense that they supported the argument he was making? Weird wording, but might not be anything. Need to go back and find that post.
Does anyone think this is a bit far-fetched defence? Mac clearly said the numbers "maybe" were on Skip's side but...

Lovers? Would be a Bear and a Maiden Fair indeed... :)

Okay.

So Mac is one of the lovers and tries to play suspicious enough for the lions not to kill him during the Night?

That might also explain the odd "on your side" as he's basically on no-one's side (were he a lion he would have been more aware of the "opposite sides" and realized his wording's problematicness)

++ Mac


Seems pretty one-sided. My suspicions based on posting start on Day 2, but given the fact that Nog gives Mac his 4th vote when Skip only had 5, he actually seems pretty innocent. I'm not sure if he's that crazy. There is some "would a lion really do this?", but then he actually follows through and votes. I will still look at Day 2, but I'm somewhat less suspicious of Nog now.



Day 2

I know people are always - myself included - most interested in the reasons someone killed the seer. And that is generally a sound tactics. But now I'm afraid we're concentrating too much on Wilwa (the real seer killed by a bear) while in a way forgetting that G55 was killed by the lions (three of them) and was much more likely looking like a seer to some people...
Brings the focus back to Mac. A subtle way to avoid being made a target, or a way to look helpful without directly incriminating a packmate?

In this post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692393&postcount=205) Nog tries to deny that the lions would have chosen G55 because of her suspicion of Mac. He also claims that he saw G55's evil side on D1 but her good only now she's dead. If he's a lion, it could be a good way to justify both times he went for her (the latter successfully).

Mild suspicion from Mac:

Or they killed her for a different reason - maybe they had no clue on the seer yet. If they were trying to frame me, Greenie or Nogrod would've been better choices. Unless those two are lions, but I feel like I'm starting to reach here.

She's obviously not a no-trail kill, but maybe a false-trail one? In that case the lions would be found among the people she didn't suspect in #107. Unfortunately, that doesn't exactly narrow down the list.
On a side note, wouldn't it be interesting if they were? With him just saying it right there.

This could go either way:If Nog were a lion, I don't know that he would have brought our attention back to G55.
Depends. If the lions tried to kill the seer unsuccessfully, then they should analyze the kill themselves thoroughly, subtly emphasizing whatever points the other ways, hoping the majority of the village just goes along and is too lazy to look for themselves. If they made a no/false trail kill, then they can just sit back and watch the village mess up.

Nogrod - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust him.

I was ready to lynch Mac yesterDay before Skip as the wagon looked so spurious (actually Eönwë's late joining was the deciding thing and didn't gain the attention it deserved - fault also on me in that, as I only just remembered it now).

Now I'm a bit torn that we have the same candidates as yesterDay up front... yesterDay I would have felt fine but now it seems many are also sticking to Zil as an easy vote as well.

Blah.

Bear goes then... I do hope.

++ Mac

Okay. This looks ridiculous right now. Where are you people?

I might have wished to vote Kit.



I really don't know. I wouldn't put it past Nog to be such a bold lion, but voting for a packmate two Nights in a row at crucial moments is pretty extreme. The last few posts could go either way. I wouldn't put it past him to show that sort of regret (maybe?) at voting Mac as a way to make himself not look like a lion trying to look like a villager (i.e. being quiet because he knows the outcome and then rejoicing in the victory), and also set up the next Day's Kit kill. If he is a lion, he probably was genuinely frustrated that he was a major force in pushing Mac's death unnecessarily (no overwhelming rush of Mac votes from the remaining 4).

Overall, I'd say he seems less suspicious to me than when I started based on his Mac connections, but I wouldn't rule him out.

[Eönwë]

Some posts I came across that would be interesting if both are lions:


Then there is the Skip-wagon... namely Kitanna, Wilwa and Inzil.

If Skip is innocent - and especially if at least one lion already had a vote at that time, I'd say it is quite probable even there is at least one lion - if not two there. Sadly the inference has two "if's" in it.

I'd see our best choices toDay somewhere along those lines. Any ideas? Possibly setting up for a future find?

Inzil again is interestingly involved both in being voted and suspected by a few people - and pushing Skip into clear lead by his vote. From this POV he looks the most suspicious to me. But is that enough to lynch him... I'm not sure.
Another of the "suspicious, but would a lion do this?" posts.

And again even more strongly here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692448&postcount=249) (three layers of nested quotes is too much for me).



And now to look at the mess that was yesterDay...

[Encaitare]

I'd like to believe Sally's innocence (or at least non-wolfness) from her post at #485. I admit I thought it was a little suspicious how sure she could be, especially after how many of the votes were cast already, and it's easy for a wolf to take that role. But to react that strongly after the fact AND be a wolf would be a very DIRTY tactic. I would be sure to remember something like that in any other game we played together.

I want to believe that Sally is sincere as well. I have no real reason to suspect her. But it did cross my mind that her reaction was a possible Lion tactic -- because who would think a Lion would threaten to leave? But then, as a couple of people mentioned, this is the time in the game where tensions run high.

I really don't know. I wouldn't put it past Nog to be such a bold lion, but voting for a packmate two Nights in a row at crucial moments is pretty extreme. The last few posts could go either way. I wouldn't put it past him to show that sort of regret (maybe?) at voting Mac as a way to make himself not look like a lion trying to look like a villager (i.e. being quiet because he knows the outcome and then rejoicing in the victory), and also set up the next Day's Kit kill. If he is a lion, he probably was genuinely frustrated that he was a major force in pushing Mac's death unnecessarily (no overwhelming rush of Mac votes from the remaining 4).

Overall, I'd say he seems less suspicious to me than when I started based on his Mac connections, but I wouldn't rule him out.

I'm not feeling very suspicious of Nogrod either. I seem to remember him being a very cunning Wolf way back in the day, so I wouldn't put anything past him either (nassty tricksy philosopher! ;) ), but I feel like he's been sensible and reasonable throughout the game.

[Eönwë]

Ok, I think I've finally read up on yesterDay.

The village voted Kit because of this post!? :confused:
If Galadriel was targeted as a possible seer by the lions I'd say her endorsement of an innocent Wilwa was likely why. Though she does mention Mac and Volo. But seems like a stretch to interpret what she had to say as seer hints about them.
Though her death could have been a random choice because she didn't really mention any lions. In which case Volo and Mac look decent.

[Thinlómien]

Ok, just reading back a bit and I noticed something odd. Apparently Lommy listed me as one of those "defending Kit" (rightly), but toDay she lumps me in with those who argued against her.

*Adds Lommy to list of suspects*Just checking this on my phone and this caught my eye. Please slow down Rikae! I'm sorry if I have misrepresented you. All I said before was that you had been one of those to point out things in Kitanna's defense (this was before you analysed Mac's posts.) Now my impression was that more or less all analysts yesterDay found Kitanna suspicious, if you didn't, then I misremembered.

And to everyone who suspects me, do you really think I would have killed Gil if I was a wolf? That would be plain suicidal, both because there was quite a lot of suspicion against me already yesterDay and because the hunter is still alive. Also I can't fathom why as a wolf would I have every Day talked about how it makes way more sense for the lovers to side with the village. Really, think about it. I have a feeling I'm being set up as a lynch candidate since the beginning of the Day and I don't like it. I don't want to die with such a crappy track record and I don't want to die as a helpless victim of a wolf ploy!

[Nogrod]

The village voted Kit because of this post!? :confused:A straight answer, I think, would be "no". But it would be a part of the reasoning for some (like me). I mean it's not only the "slip" (which turned out not to be a slip after all) of kind of letting it be seen in between the lines that she knows no lions were mentioned aka. she knows who they are because she is one herself - but also that it defends Mac who then turned out a lion...

But I think her relation with Mac (mutual) were the first reasons to vote for her - and her own votes the second reason, this maybe coming as the third important or something... but yeah, let's continue as these cases have been argued like dozen times already by several people. So I mean next time someone asks "why did you lynch Kit" I'd only say "read the thread" as many people have stated these reasons quite clearly quite many times already.



But this spotting by Eönwë I do appreciate as at least I had totally overseen/forgotten it:
Well, in Mac's shoes I'd have thought it too risky.So does he imply he knew Mac was a lion? It as also interestin g to follow the bickering between Mac and Inzil recollected. Somehow it feels a bit overdone if they would be both lions, but it is also possible that with both gaining suspicions and them tslking themselves into these dead-end alleys they were kind of forced to follow their susoicions with votes... Who knows? But certainly one more scenario to mull over - or at least one we should not overlook.


Nog is the one who's really bothering me toDay, math aside. I just get a feeling he's trying to subtly steer conversation in unhelpful directions.
Like urging us to concentrate on the lionhunt - and speaking against wasting time on Bear-speculations? Like saying let's go back to Mac-bussiness as that is where we have any hints there could be? Very unhelpful direction indeed... Could you Rikae tell us which would be more helpful directions? :p

[Inziladun]

So does he imply he knew Mac was a lion? It as also interestin g to follow the bickering between Mac and Inzil recollected. Somehow it feels a bit overdone if they would be both lions, but it is also possible that with both gaining suspicions and them tslking themselves into these dead-end alleys they were kind of forced to follow their susoicions with votes... Who knows? But certainly one more scenario to mull over - or at least one we should not overlook.

That quote and back-and-forth with Rikae was about her saying G55 might have been killed as a possible Hunter. I replied that since she had suspected Mac I thought that if Mac were a Lion, taking her out would be a risk I wouldn't take myself. I fail to see what's suspicious about that.
I'm trying to not see Eönwë as a potential Lion boring in on a perceived easy lynch, but the possibility has gone through my mind.

[WythDryden]

I'd daresay the case for Inzil is not looking good for him at the moment. Taking a look at just the lynch-votes for a second. Of the skip voters, there are only 3 people left alive (and it was a pretty accepted theory day 2 that at least one of the lions was living in that group). Those people are Lottie, Eonwe, and Inzil (thus far, I've felt pretty trustful of Lottie and Eonwe, so I hope that doesn't come back to bite me). Next, the remaining kit voters are Greenie, Inzil, Encai, Myself, Lottie, Lommy, and Nog. Both Inzil and Lottie are here, so it doesn't look good for Lottie, but as I mentioned before I'm leaning more towards Inzil being the evil one, other posts considered. Hasn't seemed to be acting entirely weird toDay though..

Edit: X'd since Nog

[Rikae]

Encai

Day 2 – Gives Inzil a fourth vote when Mac has three, although due to cross-posting she would have thought it was Inzil's third to Mac's one and her own two. Iow, if there's anything behind it but suspecting Inzil, it would probably be self-preservation.

Inzil

-On Mac's “your side”, day 2 “You're lucky I missed that, as I could certainly have thought it voteworthy”

Day 2 – his “I was the first” stuff. Defensive? Indeed. Leonine? Not so much. I still think a lion would have checked before making that statement.

Post #304, Inzil gives Mac his second vote when he already has 2 himself (3 actually, but he crossed with Wyth's vote for him) and Encai has 2. I don't think a lion would do this, either.


Lommy

- Mac says of Lommy, day 1 “This would make me suspicious as well, for the same reasons as above. "The lovers are not as bad as I said before, but they're still very bad". The thing is, would a wolf state it in all-bold? “
The sort of wishy-washy “suspicion” a lion might use either to nudge suspicions toward an innocent while keeping his hands clean, or to distance himself from a fellow. However, it's worth noting that this is NOT the most suspicious thing about Lommy's statement: Mac is glossing over, and drawing attention away from, its hintishness.

- Lommy on Day 2: “Evil!Mac and evil!Volo seem like options too, but I think they were both suspected more by someone else, and the phrasing is not especially seerish at least in this post. “ and in the same post “And what is this talk about wolves wanting to off the hunter?? *looks especially at Rikae* Whenever people suggest the wolves killed someone for any other reason other than seeming seerish, it smells of covering trails to me. The wolves need to get rid of the seer, first and foremost. There needs to be a good reason not to go for someone who looks seerish to them.”

So, Gal wouldn't look seerish to Mac, but it is apparently inconceivable that no one looked seerish? I guess this is a point in Lommy's favor. I doubt a lion would be so locked onto the idea that Gal must have looked seerish for some reason.

Nog
- Reading Day 1, Nog is really quick to cast suspicion for flimsy reasons. Everything seems to be a possible wolf-slip in his eyes.

- Day 2 - Nog is the one who pointed out that Gal's playing style was different and it would have made her look generally gifted, while also saying that she didn't seem to be a seer who dreamt of Mac.
I agree with the latter point: others suspected Mac, so it wouldn't make sense for them to target her for that reason. I consider it likely the first reason is indeed the reason they went for Gal, but I only noticed it in retrospect, when Nog pointed it out. Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well?

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. I can't imagine I'm suddenly talking sense in his eyes; more likely, he's evil.
In particular, he picks up on a couple offhand/throwaway comments of mine and agrees with them in post #236. It gives a “buttering up” vibe.

Gives Mac his 5th vote when Inzil already has 5. At this point Inzil would still be lynched – lion!Nog would be making himself look very nice in the event of a Mac lynch, but not necessarily lynching Mac. I don't believe for a minute he wouldn't do this. Nogwolf is notorious for throwing comrades under the bus.

Once again I'm running out of time. At any rate, from what I've looked at so far
++Nogrod

Is the clear winner.

[Eönwë]

So, other than basic suspicion based on the Skipwaggon the Day before, the first real post I found to suspect Kit is Nog's:
I do agree with Encai that Kit has played very reasonably and her vote for Skip could be one that an innocent might have made if forced to get off at that point of the game. But this is interesting:On page 3, she agreed with Inzil that a Targaryen reveal would be better for later in the game.
On page 5, Day 2, she thinks that the Lovers chose to target Wilwa because they thought she was a Lion, trying to steer conversation toward the Lovers. She notes how Inzil brought up that the lovers would have to take sides.I mean she doesn't seem to back others viewpoints or agree a lot but does that with Inzil a couple of times. Okay, that's based on Encai's analysis and she might have not reported everything (on purpose or without any) but that kind of thing actually does raise an eyebrow or two - especially as they both voted Skip, and Inzil was suspected & voted himself...

Then: Kitanna - I can't pinpoint it, but something in her posting seems wrong to me, as does the fact that people have been defending her left and right even though she's hardly been under any suspicion toDay.

And then the start of the slip discussion: Though her death could have been a random choice because she didn't really mention any lions. In which case Volo and Mac look decent.Didn't mention any lions? Meaning what?

And Greenie: good catch (again) about Kitanna! Can you proofread my thesis when I finally get around to writing it? :D

And Greenie: good catch (again) about Kitanna! Can you proofread my thesis when I finally get around to writing it?
Hey, I didn't even register that! What the-?:eek:

Well, Kit, now that you're here-

Originally Posted by Kit, re: Gal
Though her death could have been a random choice because she didn't really mention any lions. In which case Volo and Mac look decent.
Didn't mention any lions? Meaning what?

Indeed. Meaning what?

Didn't mention any lions? Meaning what?Seemed to me that she meant "it's possible she didn't mention any lions which would make her a random choice". In fact, that's the only way the stuff about Mac and Volo makes sense.

x'd with Rikae's previous post, but already finding more reasons to suspect Kit:
Kitanna - Confuses me. I'm not sure what to make of her saying that Gal didn't mention any lions (although it's more than possible that I just didn't understand what she meant), and I agree with Lommy about the strangeness of people defending her so strongly when nobody really suspects her.

I'm not super happy with the three who have already got some votes; I don't suspect Encai or Eomer and have no idea about Inzil. I'd prefer Mac or Kitanna toDay, would be okay with Lommy, Copper or Loslote too.

Second time it gets quoted, this time with even less context!
And Greenie: good catch (again) about Kitanna! Can you proofread my thesis when I finally get around to writing it? :DThat was actually kind of mind-blowing - and I know I read the very same sentence earlier myself but didn't catch it... Though her death could have been a random choice because she didn't really mention any lions.Now this would be a slip of the year indeed! I mean yeah, how does she know she didn't mention any lions unless she knew who they were aka being one herself?

Could it be this easy? Probably not...

But I'm going to go back and see whom she actually left without notice (the first part of her list everyone - mysef included - have kind of ignored as "not seerish").


Well, Kit, now that you're here-


Indeed. Meaning what?
I mean. That she was chosen because she didn't specifically mention any lions in her posts. So they chose her as a no trace kill.

Edit: just a theory on why her since what she said didn't look too seerish to me, with the exception of her Wilwa defense
Wavering between Encai and Kit...

Inzil is a better choice than Mac, but not really too keen on either.
I almost feel like I'd prefer Kit over Mac after all, but bringing in yet another candidate seems a bit silly at this point.
bah, I think this Mac-Inzil war is leading nowhere.

++Kitanna


Conclusion: Definitely something fishy. Just because so many people latched onto it already without checking (or at least pretending not to check) the context. If you're going to claim it's a slip, at least it should seem pretty convincing. But in this case, it only really looks like a slip without the context. And, I mean, a sentence that actually makes sense is always far more likely than one that doesn't and is also a slip (Sorry, started ranting there). Anyway, my point is that I don't think that everyone who latched onto it had the best intentions. Both Nog and Lommy were already suspecting Kit, so perhaps they could've overlooked it, being clouded by suspicion, but usually they're quite careful, so it seems unlikely that it's the case for both. And as was already proven by this point, pointing out a 'slip' (I'm not even confident that Mac's was one anyway, not that it matters now) is an easy way to spread a suspicion. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the three turned out to be a lion.

One more thing to note: mention of the 'slip' disappears after Rikae and Kit explain it away, but Lommy and Nog are still much more keen to lynch her after it's discovery. This could go either way: either it helped inflame their suspicions, or they're determined to have her as a lynch candidate.

[Nogrod]

Oh, and asking to clarify the winning-conditions was the most unhelpful thing I presume...


That quote and back-and-forth with Rikae was about her saying G55 might have been killed as a possible Hunter. I replied that since she had suspected Mac I thought that if Mac were a Lion, taking her out would be a risk I wouldn't take myself. I fail to see what's suspicious about that.This is why Werewolf is so darn hard and fun to play - the same sentence can stem from different positions... it can be like you said that you were just speculating that if Mac was a lion and if you were a lion you wouldn't have taken that kind of a risk - or, if you actually were a lion with Mac you might have slipped that you wouldn't have done that were you him... Hmm... putting it openly in this way actually gives me second thoughts... yeah, the latter interpretation doesn't make that much sense - or at least makes less sense I tohught earlier it would.


EDIT: X'd with at least this page...

[Nogrod]

Oh. I see Rikae finally opened the game. :smokin:

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. Now if you really are a wolf, you were too hasty I think.

Although I'm also kind of disappointed... I thought you would have made a better one. I could have done a better case against myself. :)


Yes, I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time already but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway. So with you I have been kind of waiting if you make a move... and now it seems you took the gloves off... Hmm.

There is an interesting football match starting in a moment and I'm going to watch it and have some dinner, but I'll be back for the last two hours. Let's see if there is still something in the "Mac-diaries" or other promising leads. If not, then let's lynch Rikae - or me. We can nicely afford even lynching me toDay with the numbers we have if you then lynch her the next Day.

[Rikae]

Oh. I see Rikae finally opened the game. :smokin:

Now if you really are a wolf, you were too hasty I think.

Although I'm also kind of disappointed... I thought you would have made a better one. I could have done a better case against myself. :)

Well, sorry, but I have to spend the day with my in-laws, so you'll have to take what you can get. Be my guest, though. I'm sure you can give us all the real reasons you are suspicious. Who would be more qualified?


Yes, I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time already but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway. So with you I have been kind of waiting if you make a move... and now it seems you took the gloves off... Hmm.
I suspect you for not suspecting me -> you've suspected me all along, really? If you're innocent, it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second).

There is an interesting football match starting in a moment and I'm going to watch it and have some dinner, but I'll be back for the last two hours. Let's see if there is still something in the "Mac-diaries" or other promising leads. If not, then let's lynch Rikae - or me. We can nicely afford even lynching me toDay with the numbers we have if you then lynch her the next Day.

I'm just an ordo and have little time to play - you could do worse.

That's all the time I have now - I won't be back before deadline, I'm afraid.

[Eönwë]

Well, it looks like I probably won't have time to look at Kit suspicion yesterDay, and to be honest, that's probably for the best. She just seems to have been scapegoated and pinned with all sorts of small suspicions, and that doesn't really tell us much. What I will say about it though is that Nog brought up the slip again (even though it had already been explained) in #364 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692602&postcount=364), Zil entertains it in #365 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692603&postcount=365), and Greenie chimes in at #370 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692613&postcount=370) Lommy practically mentions as fact in #377 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692621&postcount=377).

[Loslote]

And to everyone who suspects me, do you really think I would have killed Gil if I was a wolf? That would be plain suicidal, both because there was quite a lot of suspicion against me already yesterDay and because the hunter is still alive. Also I can't fathom why as a wolf would I have every Day talked about how it makes way more sense for the lovers to side with the village. Really, think about it. I have a feeling I'm being set up as a lynch candidate since the beginning of the Day and I don't like it. I don't want to die with such a crappy track record and I don't want to die as a helpless victim of a wolf ploy!

Honestly, this defense makes me more suspicious of you than ever. For one thing, your point about how you wouldn't have killed Gil if you were a lion could easily be one of the reasons you killed him in the first place - so that you'd be able to make that point if suspicion circled around to you.

Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. I can't imagine I'm suddenly talking sense in his eyes; more likely, he's evil.

I had been ready to suspect you - that had been my reasoning behind voting Kit yesterDay, that one of the two of you were probably a lion - but this looks remarkably innocent. I don't agree with your logic, of course - Nog is one of the people I think looks most innocent out of this whole village - but I don't think this is a move you'd make as a lion. Even if you and Nog were packmates, neither of you were heavily enough suspected to make lion-on-lion worthwhile, and if Rikae was a lion and Nog wasn't, it wouldn't really make sense for Rikae to attack him out of the blue like that, especially not in the absence of players obviously ready to take the bait and run with that suspicion.

In that case, then, I'll have to revise my list:

If these people are evil, they have well and truly fooled me:
Nog
Eomer
Sally

I don't think these people are evil:
Greenie
Wythy D.
Rikae
Eonwe

I wouldn't be surprised if these people were evil, but I could well be wrong:
Zil
Boro

Pretty sure, at this point, that these people are evil:
Lommy
Encai

I'd be willing to vote for any of the four people in the suspicious categories. If we lynch one of the top three, I'll be very put out.

[Eönwë]

Worry me
Lommy - The bad feeling I've had about her still hasn't left, plus there's the Kit stuff.
Nog - Reasons mentioned before (mostly the Mac and Kit stuff)

Worry me slightly less
Zil- For reasons mentioned before, but down a level because I always end up suspecting him.
Encai - There are numerous times when I've read something that doesn't sit right with me, but it's hard to pinpoint anything specific.
Boro - Quiet. Too quiet. And then he jumps in to fight for Kit. Something about that seems off.
Greenie - Seemed overly innocent at the beginning, then the Kit stuff. Might be trying to misguide.
Rikae - Always scares me. And seems to find similar people suspicious, which, in a game with so much uncertainty, makes me wary.

Don't worry me, which worries me
Eomer - Has seemed pretty good so far
Sally - No idea what she was up to yesterDay, but nothing seems particularly evil. She really hasn't said enough though.
Lottie - Has been quite quiet. Nothing particularly incriminating.
WyDry - Still have no idea

Note: Order within categories is just according to the modlist.

edit: x-ed with Lottie

[Inziladun]

Let's see if there is still something in the "Mac-diaries" or other promising leads. If not, then let's lynch Rikae - or me. We can nicely afford even lynching me toDay with the numbers we have if you then lynch her the next Day.

I'm not entirely comfortable with this. An innocent might say that, but so might a Lion trying to look unconcerned. I've done that myself as a baddie before.

Honestly, this defense makes me more suspicious of you than ever. For one thing, your point about how you wouldn't have killed Gil if you were a lion could easily be one of the reasons you killed him in the first place - so that you'd be able to make that point if suspicion circled around to you.

I can see where the Lommy suspicion comes from. I still wonder though why, if she's a Lion, they would have killed one of her voters. It seems reckless and unnecessary, but I guess stranger things have happened.

[Loslote]

I can see where the Lommy suspicion comes from. I still wonder though why, if she's a Lion, they would have killed one of her voters. It seems reckless and unnecessary, but I guess stranger things have happened.

Most people yesterDay thought Lommy was at least a little fishy, though (the notable exception being Encai, who had her solidly in the middle). The village was roughly divided down the middle between outright suspecting her and thinking she was 'kind of fishy' but not wanting to commit to full-out suspicion yet. She needed something to be able to point to as a solid reason why she isn't a lion, and I think we saw it when she claimed that she would never have killed Gil if she were a lion. I think that was the reason for the kill - she wanted something that would point back so obviously to her that she could then say she wouldn't have risked it.

[satansaloser2005]

...Nog brought up the slip again (even though it had already been explained) in #364 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692602&postcount=364), Zil entertains it in #365 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692603&postcount=365), and Greenie chimes in at #370 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692613&postcount=370) Lommy practically mentions as fact in #377 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=692621&postcount=377).

A succinct summary of yesterDay's shenanigans. Steve is my spirit animal.


Quick list then, while I'm rushing through my lunch.

Guilty:
Lommy
Boro

Leaning guilty:
Rikae

Not sure:
Greenie
Nog
Lottie
Encai
Wyth
Eomer

Probably innocent:
Dun (see my post yesterDay)
Steve

[Eönwë]

Ok, I need to go now, so

++Lommy

[Inziladun]

Most people yesterDay thought Lommy was at least a little fishy, though (the notable exception being Encai, who had her solidly in the middle). The village was roughly divided down the middle between outright suspecting her and thinking she was 'kind of fishy' but not wanting to commit to full-out suspicion yet. She needed something to be able to point to as a solid reason why she isn't a lion, and I think we saw it when she claimed that she would never have killed Gil if she were a lion. I think that was the reason for the kill - she wanted something that would point back so obviously to her that she could then say she wouldn't have risked it.

Hmm. That's a pretty involved scenario, but a LommyLion is definitely capable of it.
It worries me somewhat that Eönwë, who at first seemed eager to lump me in with Mac, then broadened his suspects to include Nog and Lommy, has now voted for the latter.

[WythDryden]

Stuff has been coming up at work so I don't know if I'll get another chance to post/follow what is going on before the deadline. The argument for Lommy is compelling, but I'm going to stick with my first instinct.

++Inzil

If I'm wrong about him I'm sure I'm going to look bad toMorrow, but oh well.

[Thinlómien]

Honestly, this defense makes me more suspicious of you than ever. For one thing, your point about how you wouldn't have killed Gil if you were a lion could easily be one of the reasons you killed him in the first place - so that you'd be able to make that point if suspicion circled around to you.And you see how that argument is working in my favour? Seriously, when have you last seen a kill pointing at someone resulting in most people thinking that person innocent? And that doesn't remove the fact that had Gil been the hunter, I would quite likely be dead.

Also, what on earth is with this sudden Nogrod-Rikae fight? This looks way too staged to my liking. Our two wolves deciding to go at each other so that one looks more innocent when the other one dies? Or the lovers pretending to have a fight?

[Nogrod]

Okay.

I looks like Rikae actually started preparing her attack already a bit earlier with that oddish: Nog is the one who's really bothering me toDay, math aside. I just get a feeling he's trying to subtly steer conversation in unhelpful directions.If trying to convince some others that we should not "try to catch the Bear" (as there is no way of doing it) but hunt lions and actually getting the winning conditions clarified is steering the conversation in unhelpful directions - and not only that, but also unhelpful in such a magnitude it actually makes her seriously suspect me for because I did those things... well I can't see we're playing the same game or sharing the same reality. :rolleyes:

So that was bogus.

The rest is as fabricated.


- Reading Day 1, Nog is really quick to cast suspicion for flimsy reasons. Everything seems to be a possible wolf-slip in his eyes. That's D1 and everyone should try to find any suspiciousness everywhere. That's the point of the game. Also, I think there were two possible "slips" I discussed (although I'm not sure if they were both on D1), which obviously isn't "everywhere".


- Day 2 - Nog is the one who pointed out that Gal's playing style was different and it would have made her look generally gifted, while also saying that she didn't seem to be a seer who dreamt of Mac.
I agree with the latter point: others suspected Mac, so it wouldn't make sense for them to target her for that reason. I consider it likely the first reason is indeed the reason they went for Gal, but I only noticed it in retrospect, when Nog pointed it out. Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well?
I'm not quite getting this... but it seems clear all actual suspicion here is in the end, with: Perhaps Nog pointed it out to his fellows on the previous night as well? Sorry but I don't get what is this about. Perhaps someone said something to someone during the Night? How does it relate to anything - fex. if a lion said something to a fellow-lion at Night why should s/he say it again during the next Day? Or if a lion says something during the Day how do you infer from there s/he could have said the same thing the previous Night - and what that has to do with anything?


Also, kind of a meta point against Nog – he isn't suspecting me, or arguing with me. When he's innocent, he pretty much always thinks whatever I'm saying is flagrantly wrong and goes on a crusade against it. I can't imagine I'm suddenly talking sense in his eyes; more likely, he's evil.
In particular, he picks up on a couple offhand/throwaway comments of mine and agrees with them in post #236. It gives a “buttering up” vibe.Need I comment to this? I used to enjoy dogfights and duels years ago... and I had more enthusiasm making crusades. We people change and peole who have played with me both years ago and more recently know that.

Gives Mac his 5th vote when Inzil already has 5. At this point Inzil would still be lynched – lion!Nog would be making himself look very nice in the event of a Mac lynch, but not necessarily lynching Mac. I don't believe for a minute he wouldn't do this. Nogwolf is notorious for throwing comrades under the bus.
I didn't use two votes to immediately get Mac lynched - so I'm a lion? Now, give me a break. I've thrown mates under the bus in few games where I have been a wolf but my experiences of that are mostly negative - and in this-sized village it would be stupid for a lion to lynch a mate as now with only two lions left the numbers are really against them. And really: if you take that kind of possibility as a proof of my lionity, well I don't know what to say about the quality of your points?

Yes, I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time already but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway. So with you I have been kind of waiting if you make a move... and now it seems you took the gloves off... Hmm.
I suspect you for not suspecting me -> you've suspected me all along, really? If you're innocent, it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second).First some close reading:

I have been suspecting you Rikae on some gut-level for some time (Me)
you've suspected me all along (Rikae)

but purposefully avoided a clash as I have kind of enjoyd the game without fire and brimstone thus far - and because I've had better candidates for suspicion anyway (Me)
it's a pity friendliness kept you from doing your best to hunt lions (I don't believe that for a second) (Rikae)

Honestly Rikae?

So all that is fabricated... I think the lions are getting desperate and they had to come forwards with some radical attempts.

That said, I'm quite ready to vote Rikae toDay as I don't see why an innocent or normal gifted would go to such lengths making that flawed case against someone she doesn't know the role of?


Uhh... the game was palyed overtime and this seems to have taken me longer I thought... Back reading now.

[Thinlómien]

Innocentish
Greenie - the same as before
Eomer - still the confusion

Medium
Boro - sounds more honest toDay, still baffled by his behaviour
Sally - no idea, and not appreciating the emotional manipulation
Wyth - no one should be under the radar this late but he kind of is
Encai - I've suspected her all along but at the moment she's not really the one I'm the most worried about
Lottie - I don't like the way she's been at my throat, but that might be knee-jerk
Inzil - Eönwë's argumentation has made me re-evaluate my conclusion that he and Mac weren't fellows, but I'm still quite unsure

What on earth
Rikae and Nogrod - this staged fight has made me basically re-evaluate everything I thought about them, just what??

You don't even know how tempted I'm to act on Nogrod's suggestion we lynch one of him and Rikae. And obviously I'm not in favour of lynching me toDay, even though that would at least shed light on who's the one that has painted target on my back toDay.


edit: xed with Nog

[Loslote]

And you see how that argument is working in my favour? Seriously, when have you last seen a kill pointing at someone resulting in most people thinking that person innocent? And that doesn't remove the fact that had Gil been the hunter, I would quite likely be dead.

Gil was unlikely to be the hunter. If you were a wolf, that might have worried you a little bit, but if you needed to make yourself look better, I don't think the risk would have been too high.

Also, what on earth is with this sudden Nogrod-Rikae fight? This looks way too staged to my liking. Our two wolves deciding to go at each other so that one looks more innocent when the other one dies? Or the lovers pretending to have a fight?

Also doubtful. Neither of them were under a ton of suspicion, there was no need to make a sacrifice gambit at this point. Same goes for the lovers, but even more so - lovers would not pull a sacrifice gambit. They would lose if they pulled a sacrifice gambit. And there wouldn't have been a reason for them to try to separate themselves from each other, either, since they haven't been voting together and they haven't interacted much. I'm pretty sure the Nog-Rikae spat is just between two innocents.

EDIT: xed with Nog and Lommy

[Loslote]

Also, Lommy seems to be doing her best to egg on Nog and Rikae - trying to get the attention off of herself? Or just enjoying watching to non-lions at each others' throats? I don't like how she jumped on that at all.

++Lommy

For her reaction to the Nog-Rikae spat, as well as the other reasons I've listed earlier.

[Nogrod]

Okay. I'm not too interested in using the last hour to this, but just pointing at it... Where on earth did you Eönwë get that idea that Kit's "slip" was somehow definitively and positively "explained"? A different interpretation to it was sure given but there was no way of telling which interpretation was correct until after Kit died so by hindsight.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm leaning towards Nogrod's side in this debate with Rikae.

Rikae, if I may ask, what's with your obsession with Enca? I've read all your posts from the last 2 days and I just don't see much of anything there; but you keep repeating you will vote for or suspect Enca for 'previously stated reasons'.

[Inziladun]

I'm still not happy about having to follow Steve, but it doesn't look like I'm going to have a lot of time. Places to go. And for what it's worth, I'm inclined to trust Lottie.

++Lommy

x/d with Nog and Eomer

[A Little Green]

Here at last, sorry it took me so long, now trying to read at least something before deadline. Sorry, I'm a mess.

[Thinlómien]

Also, Lommy seems to be doing her best to egg on Nog and Rikae - trying to get the attention off of herself? Or just enjoying watching to non-lions at each others' throats? I don't like how she jumped on that at all.

++Lommy

For her reaction to the Nog-Rikae spat, as well as the other reasons I've listed earlier.Well surprise I want the attention somewhere else. This Day hasn't been very productive with most of the discussion still revolving around whether voting Kit was justified or not, and at least one of the general top suspects being innocent. Whatever happens toDay, I hope toMorrow is more productive.


edit: xed with Greenie and Inzil

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

There does seem to be a concerted effort to lynch Lommy today, and it reminds me of yesterday against Kit. Going to check those votes now.

[Encaitare]

I just read through the thread, and here's my list as of now, with names in no particular order:

Probably Innocent
- Boromir - I think he's being bizarre, but I don't think he'd act that way as a Lion
- Greenie - hasn't raised any red flags for me
- Wyth - he's never played before, but I know him rather well IRL :Merisu: and I think he's being genuine

????????
- Lottie
- Eonwe
- Eomer
- Nogrod
- Sally

Suspicious
- Rikae - I wasn't suspicious of her before, but this business with Nogrod makes me wonder if she's a Lion getting nervous
- Lommy - the Gil-kill might be a clever bluff, designed to throw us off her trail, since she was in second place for a lynching yesterDay
- Inzil - Eonwe raised some good points about him, and I was suspicious of him since the beginning

[Thinlómien]

There does seem to be a concerted effort to lynch Lommy today, and it reminds me of yesterday against Kit. Going to check those votes now.Finally some sense! *hugs Eomer* Although I guess it would be poetic justice if I went the same way as Kit did after being a part of her lynch. :rolleyes:;)

I believe the tally is:

Rikae -> Nogrod
Eönwë -> Lommy
Wyth -> Inzil
Lottie -> Lommy 2
Inzil -> Lommy 3

[Nogrod]

I think Lommy's voting record is more suspicious than Gil's death. Otherwise I'm a bit puzzled about this wagon gathering behind her.

Rikae acted in a way I can't see any innocent acting - but have hard times seeing her act like that as a lion (or lover) either - unless they are in really dire straits and desperate.

Does anyone remember what the kind of "general air of things" earlier toDay - like was there some clear favourites to be lynched? I'll check it myself but if someone has the feel of the Day already I'd like to hear that. I mean that might actually explain why Rikae is acting that panickedly - if her mate was clearly the top suspicion.

So like at the time - or a bit before - when she thought I was leading the discussion to unhelpful directions... :)


EDIT: X'd with Eomer onwards...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Inzil and Loslote both voted Skip on Day 1; they both voted Kit on Day 3; and now they've both voted Lommy today.

The one anomaly was Day 2, when Loslote voted for, interestingly, Inzil. Inzil voted for Mac, who of course was lynched. Inzil was the second most likely to be lynched.

I am not sure what to take from this.

[satansaloser2005]

++Lommy

Clearly. No time for more. Beyond too busy. More toMorrow if I'm around.

[Thinlómien]

Inzil and Loslote both voted Skip on Day 1; they both voted Kit on Day 3; and now they've both voted Lommy today.

The one anomaly was Day 2, when Loslote voted for, interestingly, Inzil. Inzil voted for Mac, who of course was lynched. Inzil was the second most likely to be lynched.

I am not sure what to take from this.It's worth a try, as much as anything else at this point:

++Inzil


edit: xed with Sally...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I'm annoyed with myself because I'm obviously missing something that's staring me right in the face. Either Lommy is 'clearly' a baddie, or there's just open collusion going on. :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

Rikae -> Nogrod
Eönwë -> Lommy
Wyth -> Inzil
Lottie -> Lommy 2
Inzil -> Lommy 3
Sally -> Lommy 4
Lommy -> Inzil 2

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, at least there's no 'throwing my vote away' this time, because I still suspect Inzil for various reasons and I also sort of suspect Lommy for certain Mac-interaction. :p

[Nogrod]

Interesting... this is actually Rikae's first post of the Day:
I'm here and reading. I'd love to analyze everyone, but I've had an exhausting day and I really don't have the energy.

Nog is saying strange things. We have 8/10 non-lions, yes, but we have 6/10 innocents, and if we fail today and the ranger fails tonight, we have 3/7 toMorrow. That is to say, we lose tomorrow, against a bear/lion team.

We have to get toDay's vote right.Lottie corrected her on the next post... but well, it looks like she was here toDay with a firm intention to try and get me suspected.

On a side note, after going through Day 2, I wonder if there's more to Rikae and Zil's argument than meets the eye...Could you actually clarify this a bit Eönwë? Was that the "being in Mac's shoes" thingy or something else?

[Nogrod]

So we have the makings of a LommyWagon and InzilWagon. How do I get this deja vu -feeling?

Well, I can't deny I have suspected them both during the game, but I'd be actually rather leaning towards lynching Rikae at this point.

Of course if no one else is up to it it would be a waste of a vote.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nog, it's Lommy or Inzil. Where are you leaning?

Football's almost on... ;)

[Encaitare]

++Inzil

I'm still suspicious of Lommy, but her attitude toDay has been more exasperated than defensive. I have been suspicious of Inzil from Day 1, and Eomer's post #549 makes me wonder what his voting record means. Essentially, I want to know Inzil's role more badly than Lommy's at the moment.

[Nogrod]

Nog, it's Lommy or Inzil. Where are you leaning?

Football's almost on... ;)Belgium vs. USA... yes.

I don't know. Inzil somehow feels like a scapegoat that was used, but what Eönwë fex. said toDay might point him being a lion...

Lommy's votes were somehow eye-catching and I could truly see her as a lion - or even more as one of the lovers...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I want to know both their roles. Alas! no double-lynches!

[Thinlómien]

Rikae -> Nogrod
Eönwë -> Lommy
Wyth -> Inzil
Lottie -> Lommy 2
Inzil -> Lommy 3
Sally -> Lommy 4
Lommy -> Inzil 2
Encai -> Inzil 3

If it wasn't a matter of life and death - which it maybe isn't after all :D - I would feel like looking for popcorn. Suspense.


edit: xed with Nog and Eomer

[Thinlómien]

Eomer you are greedy. Whatever happens will probably be educational though.

[Nogrod]

Two of those I deem more innocent than not have voted for Lommy and some of those I suspect more have voted for Zil.

++ Lommy

I must be able to trust people I tend to trust.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++INZIL

I really hope I'm right. Breaking the habit of a lifetime here, Lommy. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

If it wasn't a matter of life and death - which it maybe isn't after all :D - I would feel like looking for popcorn. Suspense.I almost feel guilty voting you after reading this... Let's hope we got it right.

[A Little Green]

I've skimmed the thread. Looks like it's between Inzil and Lommy now, so going to go with

++Lommy

I've had a nagging feeling about her for a while, more about her than Inzil, anyway. Although I also think there might be something curious going on with Lottie and/or Eonwe, especially if we're wrong about Lommy.

Sorry. Incoherent. Will participate more toMorrow if I'm still around.

zzzzz


EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Eomer and Nog again.

[Thinlómien]

Rikae -> Nogrod
Eönwë -> Lommy
Wyth -> Inzil
Lottie -> Lommy 2
Inzil -> Lommy 3
Sally -> Lommy 4
Lommy -> Inzil 2
Encai -> Inzil 3
Nog -> Lommy 5
Eomer -> Inzil 4
Greenie -> Lommy 6

It's 59! And still going on. I haven't been lynched in ages but I'm not really looking forward to it, but if it happens I will stomach it stoically.

PS. Eomer, I'm proud of you. I will not forget!


edit: xed with Greenie and fixed

[Nogrod]

Where's everyone?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Now that you are lynched, though, I hope I was wrong - cause we need to bag ourselves a lion!

[satansaloser2005]

Well, at least there's no 'throwing my vote away' this time, because I still suspect Inzil for various reasons and I also sort of suspect Lommy for certain Mac-interaction. :p

Between the two of them, one of them is obviously evil, and as much as I strongly believe it's Lommy, there is that possibility that Dun is a wolf instead, though I don't believe both of them are for reasons briefly stated yesterDay.

Only having six hours per day in a village this large is horrendous. I wasn't able to do crap yesterDay until it was far too late, and the best I can hope to do toDay is try to correct yesterDay's mistakes. Let's hope that happens. You can see why I'm frustrated. This is just awful. :(

*forcibly poofs*

[Thinlómien]

*sending kisses to everyone*

[Nogrod]

Lover? :)

[Kath]

DEADLINE!

No further votes will be counted.

Lommy has been lynched. She was a Lannister lion.

Narration coming soon.

[Kath]

“Do I take it to mean that you actually want me to die, then?” asked Lommy, her face drooping.

“Yes,” said Eönwë.

“Quite,” said Lottie.

“Of course,” said Inzil.

“Why not?” said sally.

“That's how it is,” said Nog.

“I'm afraid so,” said Green.

“Fine,” said Lommy resolutely and laid down on some wilted rose petals that happened to be on the floor.

(“I'm gonna laaaay yooou dooown …” sang the two yellow haired musicians.)

“What are you doing?” asked Eomer.

“I'll lie here until I grow old and tired and die,” said Lommy.

(… on a beeeeeed of roooooseees.” The singing continued.)

“Oh for goodness sake,” Rikae said, “do stop being so dramatic. Would your beloved Stannis just lay down and die quietly?”

Enraged at this derision of her one true king, Lommy leapt back to her feet with a snarl and vaulted over the bar. Seconds later she had ripped down the antlers that adorned the wall and turned to brandish them at the waiting crowd.

“The Lord of Light will never die!” She cried. “His fire will burn forever. Let any who disagree step forward now and face me!”

No one stepped forward, but unfortunately for Rikae, everyone else quickly stepped back.

“Um.” She gulped, staring into Lommy’s wild eyes.

And there, in front of them all, apparently angered by the mention of her erstwhile king Stannis Baratheon whom she no longer served (if she ever truly had), Lommy began to change. She dropped to four feet, sprouting silvery hair and her nails and teeth rapidly elongating as she climbed atop the wooden counter.

Unfortunately for her, she dropped the antlers in the process. Not sparing a moment Rikae reached to grab them, and before Lommy had finished her transformation, she skewered the newly revealed lion right through the heart. Blood spurted out around the piercing bones as Lommy slowly slipped to the ground.

(For toniiiiight I sleeeeep …”

Collective breath held, the customers waited to see if anything further was coming. Would a lover, realising that Lommy’s death meant their own imminent demise, suddenly appear? But as time slowly passed, it became apparent that Lommy had simply been a murderous lion.

( … on a bed of horns.)

And with that refrain ringing in their ears, and their hearts lightened by the events of the evening, the patrons went off to bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvR60Wg9R7Q

~ ~ ~

Dead:
Agan, moddess - slaughtered by lions on Night 1
Kath, moddess - mauled by bear on Night 1
skip spence, ordo - tasted the axe on Day 1
wilwarin538, Three-Eyed Raven - eaten by bear on Night 2
Galadriel55, ordo - murdered by lions on Night 2
Macalaure - Lannister lion - stabbed through on Day 2
Nerwen – ordo – interrupted by bear on Night 3
Volo – ordo – ripped apart by lions on Night 3
Kitanna, ordo - died under a bandwagon on Day 3
Coppermirror, ordo - snacked on by bear on Night 4
Gil-Galad, ordo - served to the Inn in a pie of his own making on Night 4
Thinlómien, Lannister lion - antlered to death with a Bon Jovi backing track on Day 4

Alive:
Eönwë - house Royce
Inziladun - house Tully
Encaitare - random peasant
Boromir88 - house Bolton
Loslote - illiterate Tyrell cousin
A Little Green - house Reed
WythDryden/Lote22 - house Martell
Eomer of the Rohirrim - house Stark
Rikae - house Tarth
Nogrod - house Swann
satansaloser2005 - random peasant

It is now Night - nocturnal beings do your work!

[Aganzir]

The golden lioness was now the sole champion for Lannister glory.
“Who should I kill tonight?” she said to herself, talking out loud to fill the emptiness the murders of her fellows had left. She padded back and forth across the kitchen.
“Should it be somebody I think is gifted? Should it be to protect myself? Should it be to avenge my fellows?”

Eventually, she decided on the latter. She took the stairs four at a time and reached Boro's room, which, despite having three beds, was empty but for him.

“Good morning, Boro! Rise and shine!” she said with a wicked gleam in her eyes.
“Urgh... Huh! What is it?” Boro was suddenly alert.
“A Lannister always pays his debts,” the golden lion purred.
“What is this madness?” Boro cried.
“My name is Lannister. You killed my fellows. Prepare to die,” the lion said, and with that, she jumped lightly atop Boro and pinned him down, unsheathing her razor sharp claws.
“So you are a Bolton,” she said. “I'll let you taste your own medicine.”
She slid one of her claws under Boro's skin, and he cried out in pain when she started moving it back and forth, separating the skin from the flesh with natural skill. After what felt like a very long time Boro finally went unconscious, and she continued her work without interruption.

When she was done, she picked up the skin, meaning to carry it down to the hall for all the Inn to see. But on her way to the stairs, there was a huge shape looming in front of her.

“Pray tell me,” it said, “why is Inziladun's bed empty?”
“How should I know?” said the lion. “Maybe he's a brother of the Nights Watch.”
“I think not,” said the bear.
“Well then, maybe he's trying to fool us both by sleeping elsewhere.”
“I think not,” said the bear.
“And now, excuse me, if I may...” said the lion.
But the bear stepped in front of her and said, “I think not.”

With a snarl, the lion threw the Boroskin on the bear's face and tried to turn and leap away, but unperturbed, he reached to grab her with his enormous paws. She swayed and tripped under his weight, and the bear used the situation to get a firmer hold on her. He sank his teeth into her neck, ripping through her jugular vein and pulling out her throat. Blood dripping from his mouth, he roared in triumph. Terrified faces appeared from behind the doorways, wondering what the awful noise was. The gruesome sight of a gigantic hairy beast, with the mutilated remains of a lion dangling from its jaws, met their eyes. Convinced they were all about to die, the remaining patrons ran down to the main room and desperately tried to get through the door, but it was to no avail. Thunderous footsteps approached from behind them, and they turned to see the bear leaping down the stairs.

But they need not have feared. The bear jumped straight at the door and crashed through the heavy wood (and through Rikae, who had the misfortune to be standing in his way and died straight away). The way was clear.

Encaitare was the first to move. She rushed out to embrace the bear and shower him with kisses, and the bear looked a little taken aback but answered her affections by licking her face with his rough tongue before turning into A Little Green.
“We want. No harm,” she said, her arm around Encai's waist. “We leave. You leave. Me love Encai.”

“Thank you, o gracious bear,” said Eönwë. He stepped forth and threw aside his cloak, and he was clad all in black underneath.

One by one, the patrons walked out and continued each in their own direction. Last of all came Eomer. No one had noticed his violet eyes that had, as of yet, no glint of madness.

Dead:
Agan, moddess - slaughtered by lions on Night 1
Kath, moddess - mauled by bear on Night 1
skip spence, ordo - tasted the axe on Day 1
wilwarin538, Three-Eyed Raven - eaten by bear on Night 2
Galadriel55, ordo - murdered by lions on Night 2
Macalaure - Lannister lion - stabbed through on Day 2
Nerwen – ordo – interrupted by bear on Night 3
Volo – ordo – ripped apart by lions on Night 3
Kitanna, ordo - died under a bandwagon on Day 3
Coppermirror, ordo - snacked on by bear on Night 4
Gil-Galad, ordo - served to the Inn in a pie of his own making on Night 4
Thinlómien, Lannister lion - antlered to death with a Bon Jovi backing track on Day 4
Boro, ordo - skinned by lion on Night 5
Rikae, ordo - dropped out on Night 5
Inziladun, Lannister lion - killed by bear on Night 5

Alive:
Eönwë, RANGER - house Royce
Encaitare, THE MAIDEN FAIR - random peasant
Loslote, ORDO - illiterate Tyrell cousin
A Little Green, THE BEAR - house Reed
WythDryden/Lote22, ORDO - house Martell
Eomer of the Rohirrim, TARGARYEN - house Stark
Nogrod, ORDO - house Swann
satansaloser2005, ORDO - random peasant

GAME OVER. INN WINS. LOVERS WIN.

[Inziladun]

Ah, I was afraid it was a matter of time until the Bear got me. Lommy and I were talking about that on her last Night.

My apologies to my mates for the wolf-on-wolf. In both of my instances of voting for you, I had seen what I thought was an inevitable lynch of one of us, and my hope was to do what I could to separate myself in the event one of us did go down. I'm just amazed I lasted as long as I did.

One of my non-Tolkien interests is WW II, and in particular, the combat aviation aspect. When aircraft were not taken out by direct enemy action, but were worn out to the point of being ineffective, they were tagged "War Weary", and a "WW" was painted on the planes to reflect that. I think it's past time for a "WW" of my own: "Wolf Weary". I feel like I've been evil so many times there must be some sort of psychic aura surrounding me. Like I said, I lasted longer than I expected though. ;)

Nice job innocents! You did quite well without your Seer. A well-deserved hurrah for the Lovers, and congrats to Agan and Kath for an amazing game. It was fun even without knowing the mythos of the books.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes!

Congratulations to the fellow inn-mates and also, I suppose, to those bloodthirsty lovers. Commiserations to our fallen Lions.

So I was ready to take down Inzil at every point in the game, apart from 20 minutes before Agan put up the final post - that would have been about the time Greenie was ripping him apart, naturally. I decided he was not the last lion, and had narrowed it down to Rikae or Wyth. Oh well.

What made me doubt Inzil's leonicity was his vote for Lommy early on Day 4. That must have been planned, eh? It could have worked out very well for you; it fooled me anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Congratulations to the village and the lovers, I can't deny you guys all played your cards well!

Extra curses at Wyth though for voting Zil yesterDay - you totally ruined my planned ranger reveal, because I couldn't risk Inzil becoming the option for lynching me AND the real ranger eventually busting me.

Ah, I really dislike being a wolf. I figured out now that it's because I keep thinking subconsciously that I'm doing something wrong and feeling like I don't have a justification for anything I do. :D But I definitely should be a wolf more often, it's so much more educational than being innocent.

Btw we DID kill G55 for looking like the seer. I went through everybody's posts on Day1 and there was hardly anyone who would have stated anyone's innocence or guilt even vaguely seerish way and we thought the seer wouldn't dare to leave her dream too hidden. Thus G55's "innocent vibes" from Lottie were enough to catch my attention.

And I'm still impressed how all the wolves were in the spotlight basically all game. There's always a slip under the radar wolf, but not this time.

[Inziladun]

I actually considered going after Greenie the last Night, but decided on Boro because as Lommy and I had discussed, I thought he might be the Hunter and would target someone else.

[Volo]

Hooray! :D

Thank you for an entertaining improv performance!

I'm curious to hear what kind of strategies you had.

Having previously become overly stressed from over-analyzing, this was a relaxing return to a more emotion based method.

There was some great playing going on here, although I'm a bit surprised at the amount of consensus on whom to vote each Day.

[Thinlómien]

Don't worry, Inzil, I was hoping you'd throw me under the bus as soon as I saw how suspicious everybody was of me on the last Day. I think you would've lasted pretty long if not for the bear!

[Encaitare]

And true love prevails! Sorry Wyth, I'm with Greenie now. :Merisu:

And I'm still impressed how all the wolves were in the spotlight basically all game. There's always a slip under the radar wolf, but not this time.

Yes! Greenie and I kept thinking there must be a quiet lion, but you all played very boldly. A great game all around, and a big thanks to our clever and talented and gorgeous moddesses! :D

[Gil-Galad]

My top three hunches?

Lommy
Zil
Wilwa

And I became convinced of Mac and luckily votes for him

That was a fun game and super surprised and glad the lovers won.

[Gil-Galad]

Also, i am curious to hear the lions logic for the night kills. A lot of quiet and under-the-radar kills.

[Thinlómien]

Yes! Greenie and I kept thinking there must be a quiet lion, but you all played very boldly.Well, given my loud and flip-floppy playing style, I'm either a bold wolf or not a wolf at all. I kind of wish Inzil had died before me though because I'd loved to have seen people puzzling over my blatant statements that the Inzil vs Mac thing is not leading anywhere. :D

Extra kudos to you lovers, btw, I heard on the phone that you basically reread the whole thread last Night and figured out Inzil is the last wolf. Well done that! (And thanks for killing the seer for us. :Merisu: )

How does everyone feel about the balance of the game? Am I just biased if I think it was quite hard for the wolves?

Speaking of which, were you Encai and Greenie trying to off wolves all the time? What kind of strategy did you have when it came to taking sides?

[A Little Green]

HA!
I actually considered going after Greenie the last Night, but decided on Boro because as Lommy and I had discussed, I thought he might be the Hunter and would target someone else.We were seriously scared you would! I would have been a logical pick for a Night kill after all, given that practically no one suspected me.

Lions - sorry about that last. Inn - sorry about the Seer. (Not really, though. Not sorry at all! :smokin: )

Anyway, good game, everyone! Nice job, innocents, nice job, lions, and nice job, moddesses!

[Thinlómien]

Also, i am curious to hear the lions logic for the night kills. A lot of quiet and under-the-radar kills.Mostly looking for potential seers/rangers, avoiding people the ranger protects, avoiding the lovers (we thought we'd prefer to take the risk and have the double kills) and possibly being confusing. On hindsight, you were a pretty stupid choice. I thought it would bring scrutiny my way but definitely not as much as there was. Volo we thought no one would think guilty after he gave the worst-looking vote (trying to save known wolf Mac on the last minute) and saying something like "the voting will tell us a lot toMorrow" right after it. That would be insanely bold for a wolf.

[Encaitare]

Speaking of which, were you Encai and Greenie trying to off wolves all the time? What kind of strategy did you have when it came to taking sides?

After accidentally killing the Seer, we were trying to go after quiet wolves, and hoping that the more vocal ones would be discovered by the Inn-guests. We were on the side of the Inn the whole time, but tried to play it safe so as to not get discovered. I was very surprised when I didn't come under more scrutiny after the Kit-wagon. Greenie and I did discuss revealing toDay if Inzil wasn't the final lion.

[A Little Green]

Speaking of which, were you Encai and Greenie trying to off wolves all the time? What kind of strategy did you have when it came to taking sides?I think we were pretty flexible on taking sides, to be honest. Obviously targeting wolves made the most sense, but we also wanted to be rid of the seer. And our kills were also influenced by who they would point to; we didn't want to draw attention to ourselves, so we occasionally refrained from killing somebody we would otherwise have because it would point too clearly to one of us. So basically it was a weird math of who was both a possible lion AND would not openly incriminate either of us.

[Volo]

How does everyone feel about the balance of the game? Am I just biased if I think it was quite hard for the wolves?
Unaligned roles tend to tip the balance too easily. Had the Lovers decided to back up the Lions - which would have been adventurous of them - the game would been nigh impossible for the Innocents.
Enca and Greenie, did you decide to side with the Innocents to start with on Night1?

Mac, I especially liked how you toyed with people suspecting you of being a Lover.

[A Little Green]

Haha, now we start to really act like an old couple! I mean, look at the time stamps on our posts. :Merisu:

[A Little Green]

As for the balance of the game - I don't know. I do think it was difficult for the lions, but the odds weren't exactly in our favour, either. Maybe, in a village this big, we could have had four lions? But then again, if either of us had been lynched while all the lions still lived, we could have ended up with four lions and a cobbler, which would have been pretty awful for the village!

[Encaitare]

Enca and Greenie, did you decide to side with the Innocents to start with on Night1?

I don't think we actually messaged each other until Night 2, but yes, we sided with the Inn guests from the start. Greenie was getting lionish vibes from Wilwa... that she was the Seer was just a bit of luck.

[Aganzir]

This was an extremely entertaining game to watch as an omniscient mod!

Some highlights:

Wilwa dreamed of Lommy on Night 2, then the Bear killed her. The game might have gone very differently if it hadn't happened.

First the Mac/Inzil bandwagon, then the Lommy/Inzil.

Wyth's track record on voting for wolves is extremely impressive for a newbie.

How Nog was so convinced (and convincing) that everybody was a lover we had to double check the roles before posting the lynch.

Lommy starting her first post like this:
So without further ado, let me scrutinize you -

Eönwë - house Royce - obviously our ranger and will be the first one to die.

I bear watching, eh?
I bet you are, lady. (Now I know where the bear picked up his Tarzanesque dialect.)

I found these dwarf-women intensely curious, and as I hail from the land of Dorne, I love indiscriminately. Having them taken from us, and cut short the fun we may have had, calls for a vengeance that I can't wait to assume with my spear.
:D

Boromir88 - Says a lanister would let the village do the dirty work, then disappears.
The best analysis of Boro I've ever seen.

I agree with you that no villain would have gotten so mixed up as I did. That's as strong an argument for my innocence as I think you're likely to get in a WW game.
Especially in this game, seeing as you couldn't reveal. :Merisu:

Anyhow. I would've liked to see some more special roles dying in this game! I'm sorry we never got to flip the coin on Eomer, and a lover death would also have been interesting - it would've been pretty easy to figure out who the other was, I think.

I actually think the game was quite balanced - think about the village despairing over lynching a wolf yesterday! Three wolves in this big a village is very little, but then, not every village has two night kills! Also I think the village played very well - there was some very beautiful deduction there. And as people have pointed out, the lovers were a wild card. And it would've taken Inzil only one (with the withdrawals) or two more days to win!

[A Little Green]

I don't think we actually messaged each other until Night 2, but yes, we sided with the Inn guests from the start. Greenie was getting lionish vibes from Wilwa... that she was the Seer was just a bit of luck.True! We had no idea she was the seer. Not that we minded her dying, though, given that a living seer would have been a danger to us, too.

[Volo]

While it would have been fun to have more time to play, I'm quite thankful to the Lannisters for killing me. On Day3 my flat was invaded by a dozen of 14 year olds.

[Inziladun]

We were seriously scared you would! I would have been a logical pick for a Night kill after all, given that practically no one suspected me.

The draw for getting you was the fact that you were both an unlikely protect and an unlikely lynch the next Day. I obviously never thought you were the Bear. You gave every impression of being a tired Ordo, pressed for time.

I think we were pretty flexible on taking sides, to be honest. Obviously targeting wolves made the most sense, but we also wanted to be rid of the seer. And our kills were also influenced by who they would point to; we didn't want to draw attention to ourselves, so we occasionally refrained from killing somebody we would otherwise have because it would point too clearly to one of us. So basically it was a weird math of who was both a possible lion AND would not openly incriminate either of us.

We had a lot of talks about who you would side with. Your kill-choices had us thinking you just might be rooting for us, :rolleyes:

[Kitanna]

Hot damn, lovers. Good call killing Zil.

Thanks for the game moddesses. It was as fun (mostly) as it was stressful and frustrating.

/haunting this village

[Inziladun]

I think I mentioned this during the game, but the last game I played with Lovers, I was the Ranger, and was lynched with their collaboration, handing the win to them and the wolves. :rolleyes:

[Kath]

Thanks for a good game all! It has been most fun watching. :D

Personal highlights include:
Poor old wilwa dreaming of Lommy and then getting offed the same Night.

Tarzan Bear.

The bandwagon!

And of course sharing narration writing with the wonderful Agan (who I have cheerfully called Maria to all and sundry for the entire game - sorry!).

[Nogrod]

Whoa!

Well, allowing there were no submarine lions, it actually was not such a surprise the game ended already.

It was interesting how the lions started the whole game with the "wrong foot" as it is said in Finland - eveything started to go badly and there were almost always at least two lions at the line to be lynched...

I thought (and I guess I wrote it somewhere yesterDay) that after killing the Seer the lovers were picking possible lions who would be hard to lynch - and it seems I was partly correct. Yay! IT always feels cool to be right on something, even partly. :rolleyes:

I thought Mac was the Bear... then when he wasn't I thought Lommy was the bear. Nice way to help lynching two lions! :p

But yes, the Inn played really well - and mainly without non-welcome brawls amongst ourselves. That's something to be proud about.

Talking about the fairness... I'm not sure it was an unfair setting. We were just flashingly effective this time. Had the votings gone a teeny bit differently we might still be playing and our numbers dwindling very fast - and thus the lovers would have also reconsidered their loyalties...


But yes. Cool game, nice concept, hilarious visuals at the admin thread, nice new avatars, nice mood, active Inn... A good game indeed!

Thanks to you all for that.

[Aganzir]

And of course sharing narration writing with the wonderful Agan (who I have cheerfully called Maria to all and sundry for the entire game - sorry!).
I enjoyed writing these narrations tremendously. You're the best. ♥

(For the record, all but for two were made as a collaboration.)

[Kath]

Oh! And, actually, the Admin Thread. Watching as each new reaction gif popped up was one of the most enjoyable parts of the entire game. :D

[Kitanna]

The bandwagon!

It's always been my dream to be crushed by a literal bandwagon.

[Loslote]

if Mac is a lion, Zil is likely one of his packmates.

I knew it! I knew they were packmates, and then I second guessed it! By yesterDay, I'd pretty much decided Zil was innocent after all. :o Great job catching our last lion, Team Bear!

This was probably the most fun I've had with a werewolf game in ages, so thanks, Agan and Kath - excellent job!

Good game, everyone!

[Aganzir]

Also - pretty much all the people in the first narration are random (with the exception of the tanned man who is very clearly Boro), but I think after the roles turned out as they did, it's obvious the two yellow-haired musicians are Encai and Greenie. We are expecting their rendition of The Bear and the Maiden Fair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6VMSYIXCCY) shortly.

[Galadriel55]

YES!!! Go village!

Highlights: pretty much what Agan and Kath have already said. I especialy love and agree with the double-wolf wagons and Nog thinking everyone is a lover. :D

Speaking of which, I never thought this would ever be said about me:

I've played with her a few times before and especially her very self-confident, almost leadership-like posting was new to me at least - and I actually realised it only now as I went through her posts again - I guess I concentrated more on the other half of her act yesterDay more... So if the lions were not going after her having spotted one of them (Volo? Mac maybe less believably?), then it could have been her swag and some odd-points together that killed her: too self-assured and knoweldgeable (or putting too much effort) not to be an ordo and odd enough to try and raise some suspicion as to not be the "one everyone trusts and therefore to be done with"?

Swag? I have swag? I have swag? I have a verbal limp most of the time. ^.^

My Day2 thought of the Day: it's nice to be one of the centres of attention. See, if attention was an ellipse, I would be at one of the centres and wilwa at the other. Pity we're both innocently dead. :D

Dear Moddesses, that was amazing! The narrations were hilarious, and the game concept was really cool! It was a shame Eomer didn't get to use his role and there wasn't more cool lover stuff. (It did serve for excellent Day1 discussion, though, you must admit. ;)) Good job lovers for getting the last wolf, and congrats village for figuring out pretty much all three wolves without a seer in such a big and role-filled village!

PS: Second/third/n-th whoever said that the goodbye pictures on the Admin thread were awesome! They really are! (kudos to wilwa for starting the trend!)

PPS: wilwa, who was your first dream?

Great game everyone!!! I enjoyed it despite my early death. Well, seeing as I was Night-killed and not lynched, I suppose it should be an honor to take one for the Seer, but seeing as the Seer is my death-buddy, not so much anymore...

[Encaitare]

I bear watching, eh?

I bet you are, lady. (Now I know where the bear picked up his Tarzanesque dialect.)

Is this where "Tarzan bear" came from? You know that's not how I meant it, right? Me maiden, you silly.

after the roles turned out as they did, it's obvious the two yellow-haired musicians are Encai and Greenie.

I thought so! Very nice. And as a music teacher, the literal band-wagon also made me smile. :D

[WythDryden]

Great job everyone! I had a blast playing in my first ever game of werewolf, thanks so much to Aganzir and Kath for hosting, and writing such hilarious narrations. I was pretty much torn up the entire time, and constantly double-guessing myself, but I am pretty proud that I had ended up voting for lions on 3 out of my 4 votes. Funnily enough, the only time I was actually on the lynching side was the innocent Kit! I felt so guilty afterwards too!

[Aganzir]

Is this where "Tarzan bear" came from? You know that's not how I meant it, right? Me maiden, you silly.
No actually, it was one of Green's kill PM's which went something along the lines "Me Bear. Me eat someone. Ugh."

[Coppermirror]

Brilliant work, Inn and lovers! The Inn zapping Lommy, and the lovers getting Inzil. In retrospect, Lommy should have been gone after straight from her weird signalling-to-lovers post on Day 1. And Inzil was a great choice. Although the Inn hadn't written Inzil off as a possible lion, he might not have been got rid of by toDay if not for the lovers. But it was curious the way that Inzil and Mac placed their votes for each other.

I thought Rikae was a lover at first, due to her response to Lommy's suspicious-looking post and a few other things, but nope!

Interesting that Greenie the bear was going for me both during the Day and then the Night kill (as a suspected Lion). Somebody might have been able to trace this, if they went the "so the bear killed Cop; if the bear's on the Inn's side, who's the only person who heavily suspected Cop?" route. Otherwise, I'm impressed at how Greenie managed to get into the optimum state of non-suspicion in the village. Enca the maiden was suspected a little more, so might have been in danger from the Inn later.

Wyth, that was great playing from a newbie.

Maybe there should be reaction pics in admin threads more often? Seems fun.

Memo to self: remember to add to people's rep later. (The computer I'm using right now won't let me do it. Maybe it needs Java or something.)

[Aganzir]

Valar morghulis....

[Kath]

Many days later, Eomer had finally made it back to the Wall. Though his breath was freezing as it left him, he was all but snowblind, and he couldn't feel his fingertips, he was happy. This was his home.

"Well, it's been an adventure." He said to one of the scarecrows still standing atop the Wall.

"So I've heard." The scarecrow replied. Eomer sighed and wedged himself into a protected crevice, watching the snow fall.

"Wait ... what did you say?" He suddenly snapped back to attention. "I mean - you spoke?" He stared at the scarecrow in confusion.

The scarecrow cackled and burst into flame. Eomer backed away as more and more scarecrows turned to look at him.

“Why do we even have scarecrows on the Wall?” Eomer asked. “Crows, they call us. Us! Brothers of the Night's Watch! Whose idea was this?”

“We are here to scare crows,” the scarecrows said, advancing on Eomer.

"But I am no crow!" Eomer cried, tearing down his hood. His white blonde hair streamed in the icy wind and his eyes flashed,seeming truly purple in the reflected light. "I am a dragon!"

In true berserker style, he flung himself forward into the flames, ready to battle the fearsome enemy. Sadly, his headlong flight was abruptly halted as he ran directly into the path of a spear. Looking down, he realised that there was no scarecrow, there were no flames, there was only his own right hand holding the other end of the blade currently embedded in his chest.

"But I am the blood of the dragon ..." He whispered brokenly as he tumbled from the Wall to his inevitable death on the frozen ground below.

[Aganzir]

All men must die.

[Boromir88]

...didn't even vote for an innocent at all this game, of course I had more trouble with the deadline and voting than probably any other game. I feel terrible about it because votes are an important part of a game and it's not fair to either side if someone isn't at least voting.

I loved this concept and thanked Agan and Kath (the tan reference was fantastic) for making me an ordo because I felt no pressures or burdens...I just wanted to play a character and have fun with it. I thought of going with House Umber to be obnoxiously boisterous but with the DL and my schedule it wouldn't work too well. So I decided to go creepy and calculating Bolton...my personal goal was to do anything to survive until the end (although it wouldn't trump the innocent objective...I mean I didn't want to go 100% Bolton). I thought I was doing a pretty good job until I had to open my mouth about being suspicious of Lommy :-p

Great game everyone...lots of fun to play with some new faces and old mates.

[wilwarin538]

Congrats village!

Inn - sorry about the Seer. (Not really, though. Not sorry at all!)


It totally sucked! I was soooo excited I had gotten a wolf and I was gonna reveal and it was gonna be awesome (what a great WW comeback!) and then you ruined it :p I was totally bummed.




PPS: wilwa, who was your first dream?

It was Boro as an ord. I didn't really leave a hint, cause I never expected to be killed Night 1 since I hadn't played in so long I figured people would let me have a couple days, haha. The most "hint" I gave was in one post I said something like "from what I can see no one looks that bad" and that was my way of saying I hadn't dreamt a baddie, and then I listed a few people I felt good about and put Boro first, even though he hadn't posted much by that point so I shouldn't have had any reason to feel good about him. I didn't really mean for it to be a blatant hint, because like I said, I figured I'd make it at least through one night.

Thanks to Kath and Agan for a job well done! It was fun getting back into this, I hope I have the time to join another game!

[A Little Green]

I thought Mac was the Bear... then when he wasn't I thought Lommy was the bear.Yes, that was brilliant! And I sit here, seething to point out that it would really be rather counter-productive for the Bear to act chaotic and attract attention, but for some reason refrained from saying that!
Also - pretty much all the people in the first narration are random (with the exception of the tanned man who is very clearly Boro), but I think after the roles turned out as they did, it's obvious the two yellow-haired musicians are Encai and Greenie. We are expecting their rendition of The Bear and the Maiden Fair shortly.Would 'Bed of Roses' do? ;)
No actually, it was one of Green's kill PM's which went something along the lines "Me Bear. Me eat someone. Ugh."Needed an outlet for all that masculine energy. :Merisu:
Interesting that Greenie the bear was going for me both during the Day and then the Night kill (as a suspected Lion). Somebody might have been able to trace this, if they went the "so the bear killed Cop; if the bear's on the Inn's side, who's the only person who heavily suspected Cop?" route. Otherwise, I'm impressed at how Greenie managed to get into the optimum state of non-suspicion in the village. Enca the maiden was suspected a little more, so might have been in danger from the Inn later.True! That's why we were getting a bit pessimistic about our chances - we thought the village would lynch her, or the lions kill me. But yeah, I'm rather surprised no one seemed to connect your death to me! You were already an option the Night before, you know, but we went for Nerwen instead because killing you would have pointed too clearly in my direction.
It totally sucked! I was soooo excited I had gotten a wolf and I was gonna reveal and it was gonna be awesome (what a great WW comeback!) and then you ruined it I was totally bummed.Wilwa! Now you actually did make me sorry I ate you. :(

[Nogrod]

Nog thinking everyone is a lover. :DAll you need is love = Love is all you need!

Swag? I have swag? I have swag? I have a verbal limp most of the time. ^.^I think the lions admitted they had no idea who the seer was but were looking after her/him, and they chose you because of your... what? "Aura", "Assertiveness", "Confidence"... "Swag"? :cool:

I was pretty much torn up the entire time, and constantly double-guessing myself, but I am pretty proud that I had ended up voting for lions on 3 out of my 4 votes. Funnily enough, the only time I was actually on the lynching side was the innocent Kit! I felt so guilty afterwards too!That was an exceptionally cool first game showing! And I can tell you that after something like 50 games (or something as ridiculous) I'm still constantly double-guessing myself, getting assured of wrong choices and feeling guilty not managing to make the right decisions... but also every now and again totally enjoying getting it right as well! That's the game - and the fun of it: such a rollercoaster-ride...


Oh, and I think there are two people who have really earned some extra kudos: Greenie and Eönwë were so spot on like everytime! It's hard to surpass that. Cool spotting and unwavering determination!

[Macalaure]

It was good to be back, even though things didn't exactly go as planned. I was too all-over-the-place, I guess. Bad wolf.

But most of all I regret not being able to use this (http://media.giphy.com/media/12vDJ1lMWS2SaI/giphy.gif).

About that "slip" of mine, that happened exactly the way I described it on Day 2. Very unfortunate. I can tell you I muttered some choice words when I read Greenie's post about it (just quiet enough that Rikae wouldn't hear me). And I was thinking Greenie would be a good kill during Night 2, but considered it too bold.

And then the clearer it got that I wouldn't last very long, the heavier I went after Inzil to clear him after my death (or, well, clear myself, in case of his death :p ).

Good game all!


Valar dohaeris!

[Inziladun]

And then the clearer it got that I wouldn't last very long, the heavier I went after Inzil to clear him after my death (or, well, clear myself, in case of his death :p ).

Yes, from Day 1 it seemed we were already locked into defensive mode trying to do damage control about our too obvious association. On your last Day I was convinced the next lynch would likely be either you or me, and giving you an early vote was the best way I could think of to possibly give the village pause in thinking we both were Lions. All that bussing, for naught. But it was still fun. :D

[Nerwen]

Greenie, I can almost forgive you for eating me...

[Eönwë]

Wooo! :D Village victory as a gifted? I think this might be a first.

And wow, it was quite an interesting game. I don't think I've seen a game this size for a while (though admittedly I haven't played much for the last few years). It's a shame we didn't get to see Eomer use his power. And I have to say, being a ranger was terrifying in this game. I was so worried I'd be saving a lion from the bear every Night, so I tried saving people I thought were innocent.

N2: Lommy. She totally disarmed me with her first post, and I thought she might be the seer. I mean:
Team Stannis got added into my name? Yesss. There is only one true King in Westeros and it's Stannis Baratheon! Death to the Lannister usurpers!

So without further ado, let me scrutinize you -

Eönwë - house Royce - obviously our ranger and will be the first one to die.

See, I solved the game purely based on ic stuff.
Seemed too coincidental to be just chance.

N3: Kitanna

N4: Had no time, so went for Lommy again. That Day I realised my mistake.

N5: Lottie, because she'd been so vocal about killing Lommy.


So obviously that did not go to plan... but at least 2/3 of my Day votes were Lannisters!




And now we finally have an answer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmf8ngqvSIQ)(strong language).



But most of all I regret not being able to use this (http://media.giphy.com/media/12vDJ1lMWS2SaI/giphy.gif).
This (http://www.vmusic.com.au/Vmusic.Web/media/images/tyrion_dancing.gif) [SPOILERS] could also be put to good use, I imagine.

[Rikae]

Ha, I dropped out because I thought I wouldn't be able to provide the serious analysis necessary in endgame, and this happens! :D

Nog, I'm sorry for using flimsy arguments against you, but (as you see) it was really just a case of having an ominous feeling about you hiding under the radar and wanting to check you, but not really having the time to do so thoroughly.

It looks like I had a pretty good record of suspecting special roles, but not lions. I did suspect Lommy on Day 1 because it looked like she was suggesting an alliance to the bear, but I thought I'd be clever about it... :rolleyes:
Oh well. I hope I'll do better next time.

The lovers really did an amazing job of avoiding suspicion/wolf kills and choosing their kills - wow!

[Rikae]

And now we finally have an answer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmf8ngqvSIQ)(strong language).


:D:D:D

[skip spence]

Wohoo, well played, village! Haven't been able to follow the game since day 3 but when I saw Mac go down on day 2 and was told about the other roles I had a feeling Greenie would eat a lion of two for us and we'd go on to win.

And though I maintain I'd prefer a known innocent over an unknown hunter any time as an innocent, I did intentionally stick my neck out a little as lion bait as I knew I'd have little to no time to play later in the game. Hope it helped a wee bit catching them baddies.

[Galadriel55]

N2: Lommy. She totally disarmed me with her first post, and I thought she might be the seer. I mean:

Seemed too coincidental to be just chance.

I also thought that's a seer post, but I thought that there are several dream candidates inside, so I would have to wait with conclusions. But it's much different from your perspective! :eek:

And now we finally have an answer to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmf8ngqvSIQ)(strong language).

Ha! That's amazing! :D

[Galadriel55]

By the way, since the first two Lannisters hailed from House Connington and House (Stannis) Baratheon, I was jokingly sure that House Stark would have to be the last one. :D

[Aganzir]

The summer was coming to an end when Nogrod Swann walked into a tavern in the Reach. He was on his way home to Dorne in the south, but now he needed a drink. (Or two. Or five.) He ordered a stout and sat down, stretching his legs under the table. It had been a long day and a long journey. Suddenly he heard a familiar voice recounting a story to an enthusiastic audience. It took him a moment to place it, but then he remembered.

He had tried hard to forget the strange events of months before. Even now, he was sometimes woken in the night, believing he could hear large animals creeping around in the night. Despite his best efforts, he could not fully shake those terrible memories. And now this voice (Lottie, his mind supplied, dragging the name up) caused it all to come flooding back. Shivering, he threw down his stout, motioned for another, and listened to Lottie's tale.

“...Yes, it was awful! There he was, making passes at Lord Tyrell's son and heir throughout the entire tourney! And as if that wasn't enough, the looks he gave to the Lord's wife all through the feast!”

“Curse those Dornishmen,” a voice muttered in the crowd.

“So eventually, Lord Tyrell confronted him and asked what he thought he was doing. 'I am from Dorne. We love indiscriminately,' he had the cheek to say! The worst thing was, the Lord's son didn't seem all that displeased about the attention he was getting.”

Nog chuckled into his stout. He could well believe that these supposedly strait-laced Tyrell's would respond well to a Dornishman's charm.

"What was this fools name?" A voice from the crowd piped up.

"Oh it was a strange name, and oddly one I'd heard before, WythDryden Martell."

Nog's head snapped up at that. How could the world be so small as to bring together not two, but three members of that ghastly experience at the inn?

"What happened to him?" The voice in the crowd was still questioning Lottie. "Can't imagine Lord Tyrell taking kindly to someone corrupting his angelic boy."

All men must die.

[Kath]

“Oh, he was found dead in his bed the next day. No signs of violence... and no sign of the Lord's son either! Apparently he had been locked up in his room, just to be on the safe side, you know!”

Nog's heart went out to Wyth – after all, the Martells were his liege lords, but even if they had been Dornish street rats, it didn't do at all to murder somebody (and with poison; Nog's lip curled at the thought) just because he lived his life to the fullest. He got up, his blood surging angrily through his veins.

“Pray tell me, what did WythDryden do to deserve death?” he asked the crowd at large.

"What's it to you?" Curt voices replied.

"The Martell's are my liege lords and I will not sit here and hear them maligned without reason." Nog spoke passionately. "WythDryden was murdered in his bed for nothing. You, of all people, should know how wrong that is." He continued, glaring at Lottie, watching as her confusion lifted as she realised who he was.

"Nothing?" An angry voice shouted. "He tried to seduce the prince. Men have been killed for less."

"You have no proof, sir." Nog's anger was getting the better of him. "Defend your words!" Throwing the last of his stout aside, Nog gripped his sword and pulled it from its sheath.

A gasp went through the crowd, but Lottie stepped up to the challenge, drawing her own sword. The fight was short and bloody. Lottie struck, but Nog parried easily, his age and size working to his advantage. Sensing an opening, he fainted and thrust his sword into her side. It sunk deep, and such was the force of the blow that it went deep into the bone of Lottie's ribs and got stuck there. She fell limply on the floor, her blood pooling on the floor.

All men must die.

[Aganzir]

“This is what all you filthy Tyrell traitors get if you raise your hand against a Dornishman!” Nog yelled and turned to face the spectators unarmed.

It was the last mistake he would ever make.

Enraged by the death of one of their own in their midst, and angered by old rivalries being thrown in their faces, the Tyrell patrons advanced on Nog. Hands gripped him tight and carried him outside the inn. More bodies appeared, leading horses, bringing ropes, tying knots. Before Nog knew what had happened, he was tied between four huge beasts.

"Very well, sir. No hand will be raised against you." The voice was suspiciously polite. "But he who dares grasp the rose should ever fear the thorn."

Nog was still trying to puzzle that one out when a loud, "Hup!" was shouted. Relentlessly, the horses began to move apart. Realising what was about to happen, Nog screamed, a prolonged wail that echoed in the evening air.

All men must die.

[Aganzir]

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points) who has been targeting the mods and players alike - if you take issue with this game, please speak up. Passive-aggressive post-it notes don't work here. :Merisu:

[Galadriel55]

Huddle around the fire all, for the Night is dark and full of terrors!

..oops, wrong IC. :D

[WythDryden]

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points) who has been targeting the mods and players alike - if you take issue with this game, please speak up. Passive-aggressive post-it notes don't work here. :Merisu:


Odd. I just gave positive reputation to both yours and kath's posts. I distinctly chose the "I approve" button and chuckled to myself. First time doing it at all in this thread though..

[Galadriel55]

And to the anonymous neg-repper (with not enough reputation to actually remove any points)...

Wait, so do the blue squares mean it's a neg rep from such a person? I had one or two of these a while ago and was very confused about the colour, especially since they were blank and I believe we have to type something to neg rep someone.

[Aganzir]

Odd. I just gave positive reputation to both yours and kath's posts. I distinctly chose the "I approve" button and chuckled to myself. First time doing it at all in this thread though..
That's weird! Have you got a confusing browser that doesn't show clearly which box you ticked? I hope it's not your account acting up!

Oohh I may have just got it! The rep shows as purple, and if it was negative, it'd be red, right? You probably haven't enough reputation yet to be able to give actual points, so it just shows me I got reputation but not a point! Sorry about the confusion. :D

[WythDryden]

That's weird! Have you got a confusing browser that doesn't show clearly which box you ticked? I hope it's not your account acting up!

Oohh I may have just got it! The rep shows as purple, and if it was negative, it'd be red, right? You probably haven't enough reputation yet to be able to give actual points, so it just shows me I got reputation but not a point! Sorry about the confusion. :D

I don't have enough street cred to hand out street cred, but I can give you an emotional street-thumbs up. In spirit. :-P

[Aganzir]

I don't have enough street cred to hand out street cred, but I can give you an emotional street-thumbs up. In spirit. :-P
Exactly! Thank you! And as you stick around, you'll get to hand it out eventually. ;)

[Kath]

Eonwe fidgeted nervously. Today should be the happiest day of his life, he was getting married! He had met sally, they had fallen in love, and now they were finally going to be pledged to another. It was just that Eonwe had already pledged his life ... to the Wall.

Even though he loved sally with all his heart, he couldn't shake that lingering shame. He had deserted his post, and condemned himself and his soon-to-be wife to an existence spent in the wilderness, avoiding men in black. Only today, for this special occasion, had they ventured into a larger village to find a septon and make their vows. On top of his fears about being caught, sally's strange behaviour recently also had him worried. She had never really recovered from the death of her best friend, Kitanna, and it seemed the stress of the wedding had been getting to her. The night before she had woken screaming, clawing at Eonwe's face before she finally realised who he was. He could only hope she would improve with time.

And if anything would heal her, it was love. Eönwë pushed these thoughts aside and took sally's arm. She smiled at him. Together they made their way into the sept to say their marriage vows.

The septon was a thin man with a hooked nose and long strands of hair clinging to his balding hair. He didn't ask too many questions – and why should he? Eönwë had discarded his black Night's Watch garb along with his mission to bring new men and boys to man the Wall. The septon gestured Eönwë and sally to stand between the altars of the Father and the Mother.

“Now, children, repeat after me,” he said, “Father, Smith, Warrior, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Stranger...”

“I am hers and she is mine from this day until the end of my days,” Eönwë repeated and glanced nervously at sally.

"I am his and he is mine from this day until the end of my days." sally replied.

Smiling, the septon took sally's hand and placed it on Eonwe's.

"Under the sight of the seven, I now ask if there are any who know of reasons why these two should not be wed."

Eonwe held his breath in the long pause that followed, but no angry voices burst in to reveal his secret.

"Then I ask the gods to watch over you for all your days." The septon continued. "And may they be filled with joy. I now pronounce you ..."

His steady voice suddenly became a high pitched, agonised scream. Jumping in suprise, Eonwe let go of sally's hand, and stared at the septon in horror. His hand was twitching on the floor, thick blood spurting from the stump left behind, and dripping from a large blade. As the septon sank to the ground, cradling his wounded arm, a man dressed all in black stepped forward and picked up the severed hand.

"With this hand, you would wed a traitor." He spat at the septon.

To his shock, Eönwë recognised the man as one of his brothers from the Wall. He gave an involuntary gasp.

“Deserter!” the man yelled.

“I never meant to...” Eönwë tried to say.

“This man took the black! Swore by the old gods and the new to protect you from what lies beyond the Wall! To take no wife, to father no children! Yet here he stands. What became of your duty, Eönwë?” the man snarled.

Sally tried to put herself between Eönwë and the man, but it was no use.

“Move aside, woman!” he cried, and to Eönwë he said in a cold voice, “Kneel.”

Eönwë had no choice but to obey although he knew what would happen.

“Goodbye, my love,” he said to sally, his eyes full of tears, and a moment later his head rolled across the sept.

All men must die.

[Aganzir]

For poor sally, the sight of the one man who she had come to trust and love, the one person with whom she felt safe, being brutally murdered was just too much.

With a cry of hatred, she leapt at the man who had delivered the blow. Surprised, he raised his hand to defend himself, but it wasn't him that she wanted.

It was the sword.

Snatching it from his shocked hand, sally gripped it in both of her own, and threw her full weight into the point. Slowly, inexorably, it pierced her skin, sinking into the flesh below, finally finding her heart. Falling to the ground beside her lover, she took his hand in hers, and closed her eyes.

All men must die.

[Kath]

There came a day that a random peasant called Encaitare and a little Green crannogman were walking on a forest path, singing happily something that sounded like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcuopIxpCEo as they went. The sun was low and the forest bathed in orange light, but they were in no hurry. It wouldn't be the first time they slept amidst trees.

As they turned along a sharp bend in the path, their way was blocked by a gang of men. Their clothes and hair gave them away as Braavosi, and the two travellers greeted them politely. The Braavosi, though, were not good men, and they quickly raised their weapons against the innocent wanderers. But as they advanced upon Encai, a fierce growl reached their ears. They turned to see that the little Crannogman was no longer little, or even human-shaped, but was now a huge, hairy bear!

“Sorcery! Run!” their leader called, but it was no use. With a rabid snarl, his mouth foaming, the bear loped towards the highwaymen. He tore the leader's throat open and ripped out another man's entrails. He jumped on the third man and broke his back, crushed the fourth's head between his paws, bit off the fifth's leg and crushed the sixth's windpipe. Finally he sat down to eat, conveniently making sure he placed his rump on the seventh man's head. The man trashed for a moment and was still. But as the bear proceeded to eat the third man, he noticed he was still alive.

“You may have won today,” he whispered and coughed, “but in the end, the Many-Faced God will come for you. All men must die.”

Encai laughed. “Ah, but... I am no man!”

“Neither am I,” said the little Green crannogman, back in her original shape, wiping blood coyly from her face.

And singing they walked into the sunset.

[Galadriel55]

Encai laughed. “Ah, but... I am no man!”

“Neither am I,” said the little Green crannogman, back in her original shape, wiping blood coyly from her face.

And singing they walked into the sunset.

What?! A true-love-happily-ever-after? Pshhh. So unGOT. ;)

[WythDryden]

That song is actually a pretty powerful protection spell, so they were covered from the onset. ;)

[Eönwë]

What?! A true-love-happily-ever-after? Pshhh. So unGOT. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it ended, just to mess with all the readers.

[Galadriel55]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's how it ended, just to mess with all the readers.

Or to cut down the time it takes Martin to get down to writing the final books...

[Nerwen]

Or to cut down the time it takes Martin to get down to writing the final books...

Maybe, but don't hold your breath. ("http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/10/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-rebuffs-fretting-fans-finger-f-word”)

[Galadriel55]

Maybe, but don't hold your breath. ("http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/10/game-of-thrones-george-rr-martin-rebuffs-fretting-fans-finger-f-word”)

When I read that Winds of Winter are rescheduled from this year to 2017, I gave up on that series. At least for another several years. :cool: (And regarding the article, Martin's damn right. He doesn't lie to serve fans, let him have a life!)