The Tolkien Coming of Age Club 2 [Archive] - Page 3 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen

04-02-2006, 09:48 AM

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-02-2006, 12:52 PM

Greetings Samwise, Helen, Pio, Esty, Mithalwen and Snowdog!

Ah, in wandering off for a day, and see I missed a gathering of minds here! No, I was not singing down a lonely trail yesterday, or gardening, but I was surrounded by a passel elves and hobbits in the form of a choir competition. And it was lovely voices and lovely songs all around. The day was capped off by watching my niece perform in West-side Story.

Now today I’m back to my puttering. :) In a hurry to get the indoor work done so I can enjoy the outdoor work!

Hilde - did you ever get the hardback of 'Artist and Illustrator'? Gorgeous book - I do have the paperback.

Oh yes, the book came, and also a copy of 'Letters'. Unfortunately, my ‘hardback’ arrived as a soft back though, some sort of confusion with the description on Amazon. But still, it is wonderful! I can’t get over how many different styles and things Tolkien was good at!

My next purchase is going to be a hardback copy of Fonstad's 'Atlas of Middle-earth'. My hubby would laugh at this want of mine. I'm notoriously bad at reading maps on our driving vacations. And am always 'lost'.

I can, however, pinpoint the location of just about any place or landform in Middle-earth - thanks to RP'ing and my well worn paperback copy of Fonstad's book.

Too funny! Sounds like you should either start using 7th Age settings for your RPGs Pio, or else find a way to start vacationing in M-E. I’d opt for the latter! :D

Well, I had better skedaddle. Save space a on the glider for me. I take it these meetings will be held out on the veranda more often these days, with the gardens and fishponds and Esty’s quilts to liven things up.

EDIT: Oh heavens, I've gone and lost my mind again! It's Letters in paperback and Illustrations in hardback!

Snowdog

04-03-2006, 02:54 PM

I would like to get a hardback Atlass of Middle Earth, but I have all these post-it tags and a 3 x 5 card with the various map scales marked out on it that I would be lost in a new book. :)

And as far as spring goes, it snowed and rained all day Saturday... Brrrr....

Samwise

04-08-2006, 10:28 PM

:o I'll bet it sounded lovely, 'specially with all those Hobbits and Elves...was it just Westron, or Elvish...High Elvish or common? It all sounds lovely to these old Hobbit ears, but just wonderin' ;)

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-09-2006, 08:38 AM

I’m thinking they were mostly Westron, Samwise. Lovely classical folk songs they were, but more of the type you would hear in the streets of Minas Tirith than on an evening at the Golden Perch. Very well done. A very few were elvish of some sort, I would guess Sindarin. But then, begging your pardon, I’m no scholar to tell you aright! And again a couple as would fit the Shire just fine. :D

Lalwendë

04-09-2006, 08:49 AM

We moved to BST a week ago and the unusual chill of the end of March has given way to traditional April weather - sunshine and showers but enough extra light to mean a lot of the week-end has been devoted to the garden. I have given the lawns a first rough cut with the hover mower and tidied the hedges. Having worked such long hours last summer I am determined to do more than keep on top of the basics this year. I went to the nursery yesterday for and edging tool and ont he return journey my gar was doing the "mobile greenhouse thing". :D

It was great to feel that Spring is hear even though you don't fully appreciate the size of the garden till you have walked round it with a mower then a rake. One of my pond-fish doesn't seem to clever so I have just bought it a tonic... I am ridiculously attached to my fish ....

It's not been fit to do any gardening here since about last October! Still, this did not stop me dodging hail and sleet today to go and tackle some work, mainly consisting of jet washing containers to get rid of algae, and pruning the tree-like herbs (I am now going to see if I can actually train some of the lavender to grow like a tree). Picked up the gargoyles and Bruce Forsyth (AKA The Thinker :D) from where they had landed in the wind. No signs of frogs or toads yet, and there are already snails about - the curse of every summer for me. I found some Violas which have lasted the winter in little pots on the walls, even though they should have died last summer according to the label, so I didn't have the heart to throw them out! But my many geraniums have bit the dust. I eventually had to stash the new Violas and Aubreita (which I've been after having for years, and nowhere had anyuntil this year!) in the growhouse and retreat back indoors. :(

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-09-2006, 09:09 AM

Violas! I’ve always wanted to plant some of those, but haven’t settled on where. Our daffodils and grape hyacinth are out, and the tulips are coming along soon.

Had an inch or so of snow over the last week, so I’m debating on whether to plant peas this weekend. I'm afraid I don’t know much about them, but the package says they can be planted as soon as the ground can be worked. If that is the case I’m running a bit late, but do have the cherry tomatoes started.(Getting ready for them to be put in hanging baskets with flowers this year!)

Lalwendë

04-09-2006, 09:19 AM

I always plant them in small terracotta pots (which I paint blue or white, or combinations of, with stripes or polka dots!) and then group them together on my picnic bench (also blue) so I can enjoy the scent when I'm sitting outside. Last year they were lilac and yellow and this year they are purple and cream, but I might have the fortune to have last year's grow again this year now!

The seasons are all wrong this year. My indoor hyacinths were out at Christmas, I have tulips coming up and the honeysuckle is growing like mad, but none of the trees have shown buds yet, and everything else is barely alive! It's frustrating because I don't know if my purple wallflowers are alive or dead, and they already have fully flowering ones in the garden centre - so I suspect mine are dead. :(

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-09-2006, 09:29 AM

I hope that they are just slow and not dead! As for the trees, ours are just begining to bud now, which is a few weeks after the tulip leaves first began coming up. And the peepers started their songs a bit before that.

It was a strange winter, though, and still we are having spells much warmer than should be at thes time of year.

The Saucepan Man

04-09-2006, 10:53 AM

Still, this did not stop me dodging hail and sleet today to go and tackle some work ...We had a hailstorm down in t'south too today. And it started just as I had managed (on the third attempt) to get a bonfire going. :rolleyes:

Still, we managed to keep it going and get through the piles of culled foliage that had been collecting. I am quite proud of myself. My first bonfire as an adult. :D

Mithalwen

04-09-2006, 11:10 AM

We had a hailstorm down in t'south too today. And it started just as I had managed (on the third attempt) to get a bonfire going. :rolleyes:

Still, we managed to keep it going and get through the piles of culled foliage that had been collecting. I am quite proud of myself. My first bonfire as an adult. :D

Having raked up a lot of dead stuff I was tempted to burn it in the incinerator but I decided it was too antisocial and incompatible with the laundry hanging on the outside line. It also isn't very eco friendly as well as narking the neighbours. So I indulge my pyromania only on still grey days. Our council does run a collection service to collect green waste and compost it for a small fee so I am hoping that will reduce the need for burning / trips to the tip but I there is no finer way to cook a spud than in the ash of a good bonnie :(

The Saucepan Man

04-09-2006, 11:21 AM

Having raked up a lot of dead stuff I was tempted to burn it in the incinerator but I decided it was too antisocial and incompatible with the laundry hanging on the outside line.Well, our neighbours aren't averse to the occasional bonfire themselves, so I wasn't too worried. Although the Saucepan Boy (aged 5) did say that he was embarassed by all the smoke.

As for the ecological consequences, I am not too worried about the occasional bonfire, compared to all the stuff being put out into the atmosphere by heavy industry. When I visited Beijing last year, the permanent smog hanging over the city was alarming. It occured to me that, if rapidly industrialising and incredibly populous countries like China can't be persuaded into environmentally friendly means of production, we are all stuffed anyway.

Anyway, we do our bit. We recycle. :rolleyes: :D

I have wonderful memories of family bonfires as a child, so I was rather looking forward to it. I never realised that they were such hard work to start and maintain ...

Still, it's still smoking even now after some heavy rain. :smokin:

Mithalwen

04-09-2006, 11:41 AM

It does depend on how recently the foliage was culled. If you let it dry it won't smoke so badly. The stuff I was tempted to burn was cut in the autumn. and since it won't compost or chip I feel more justified in burning it. The incinerator makes life easier but it less fun than a traditional fire but it is a better option since increased planting means I no longer have a suitable bonfire glade. The heat is more intense though so I was quite glad of my workplace fire training when I seemed ready to create the towering inferno in microcosm.

And there is no point in blaming China when the states won't get its act together - rather do as I say not as I do..... :(

The Saucepan Man

04-09-2006, 12:05 PM

And there is no point in blaming China when the states won't get its act together - rather do as I say not as I do..... I rather agree. But still, the potential for such a populous and rapidly industrialising country to add fuel to the fire, so to speak, is scary ... :eek: :(

Samwise

04-09-2006, 12:34 PM

Ah, Miss Hilde, I'm sure it sounded lovely, regardless of the dialect anyhow. I don't hear too too much bad singin' (though I admit to listenin' to those awful tryouts on American Idol....). I sure couldn't have told which was which either.

Interestin'. I didn't know there was a Saucepan boy. ;) 5...ah, that's the age I work with (aside from the 4 and 3 year olds). As for children related to me, there's a most adorable 7 month old hobbit/man cross sleepin' on the living room floor at the moment. Better go see if he's still sleepin'....

This would be my nephew, Christopher James, the most adorable little person to ever be learnin' to sit up....;)

-----------> :D <-----------Proud auntie

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-09-2006, 03:39 PM

Hullo to Christopher James and his proud auntie too! :D

Personally, I miss the smell of burning leaves very much, and am quite lucky to have a neighbor who doesn't mind burning our dead wood as long as we haul it over to his place. I think if we had I bonfire, we'd most likely burn the house down. Too many trees and too little experience!

As for industrialization and emissions, it is very frustrating not to have more influence in that regard. Makes one want to look into either the forging or destorying of rings. ;) They got to be out there to pull off that kind of magic.

Samwise

04-09-2006, 04:25 PM

Thank you, Miss Hilde! Christopher would like to say hi, too!
Hewwo !
/
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_7988623/.HomePage/__sr_/fa2c.jpg?grFrtOEBlmtOf.wm

Child of the 7th Age

04-10-2006, 12:58 AM

Hello everyone! I have been deeply engrossed in family affairs of late. Being a hobbit mom can sometimes be hard! Hopefully this will come to an end in about a month and my life will resume.

Son is in 12th grade and trying to figure out where he'd like to go to college. Back in the ancient days, applying to college was easy. You picked out three reasonable choices, sent in your application, and generally got back acceptances. For those blessed with younger hobbits, let me tell you things are not so easy! (Poor Pio has already heard an earful of this.) Perhaps this state of affairs is only in the U.S. and other countries haven't gone beserk. But, in the U.S., if you have a student who loves academics and has his or her sights set on competitive schools, or is trying to win a merit scholarship, be prepared to fork out generous amounts of dollars on SATI's, SATII's, AP's, and applications and then get set for some large headaches.

After endless visits to schools, applications too numerous to count, and a hefty number of rejections, son has actually gotten in to a few colleges. (This description is only a slight exaggeration.) Moreover, son takes after his mom and and has decided to study something utterly useless (maybe philosophy or ancient studies ;) ), which delights me no end. Tomorrow I push him onto a plane at 6 a.m., and he flies up to Chicago to look at the university and see if it's a "match" so that we can send in a deposit. I hope it works out.

What tickled me is that son checked to make sure that U Chicago had a Tolkien course. It does - jointly sponsored by the university and the divinity school. He was also brave enough to give a link on his resume to the RPG forums on the Downs, listed boldly along with his student literary magazines, as indication of his writing expertise! (Maybe that explains the rejections?) One of his essays on his application to Chicago talked about his affection for Lord of the Rings. He posts on a college admissions website and is always telling me how many of the other students tell him they've included an essay related to Lord of the Rings on one or more of their college applications.

For better or worse, I guess things are changing. That just wouldn't have happened in the ancient days when I applied to undergrad.

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-10-2006, 04:07 AM

Good providence to both of you, and I hope Chicago is a good match! Any school with a Tolkien course sounds promising to me!

Estelyn Telcontar

04-12-2006, 07:43 AM

I brought one of my quilts with me today. It seems appropriate to us geezers, who so often tell those young 'uns that life isn't a bed of roses - this bit of life is!

http://x17.xanga.com/9b0b62406223047127158/b31753411.jpg

Hilde Bracegirdle

04-12-2006, 10:16 AM

If life is no bed of roses, how clever to cover that bed with a rose quilt. It won’t fade nearly so fast and the thorns aren’t even worth a mention! Hmm...maybe I should learn to quilt a garden instead of cultivate it!

Mithalwen

04-12-2006, 10:50 AM

I aspire to being a decent gardener but I know that quilting is beyond me. When I was at school the needlework teacher said my patchwork was the worst she had ever seen. Her other subject was handwriting where I was equally lacking!

I have a cousin in Australia who is quite an expert at quilting. Obviously the talent was not from any shared genetic heritage :P I love the colours of that quilt. But I will stick to real roses myself - much easier to grow!!!!!!!!

Samwise

04-12-2006, 05:33 PM

I aspire to being a decent gardener but I know that quilting is beyond me.
Me as well. But, bein' a lover of roses,( ;) ) I really enjoy lookin' at these.
Very pretty, Miss Estelyn!

Holbytlass

04-15-2006, 02:36 PM

Today is my birthday-a slight groan because it's the U.S. Tax Day- I "come of age" in the Shire reckoning. But since the requirements to join the Tolkien Coming of Age Club is to have been reading LotR and other Tolkien books for at least 18 years, I'm just popping my head in the door and saying "Hi and see you in 13 years".

Esty, that is a beautiful quilt. How long did it take you?

Samwise

04-15-2006, 07:12 PM

the requirements to join the Tolkien Coming of Age Club is to have been reading LotR and other Tolkien books for at least 18 years

?It was? :eek: I don't remember that....though I don't remember much.... :rolleyes:

A very happy birthday to you !!!

Holbytlass

04-16-2006, 04:45 AM

Thank you for the birthday wishes.
Look here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=134020&postcount=1).

Samwise

04-16-2006, 04:53 PM

Well, shoot..... :rolleyes: :(

mark12_30

04-17-2006, 07:16 AM

I brought one of my quilts with me today. It seems appropriate to us geezers, who so often tell those young 'uns that life isn't a bed of roses - this bit of life is!

Glorious, Esty. Having heard rumors of your skill for so long, it's good to see at last.

Sharon-- all the best for your son. May his college experience be enriching, fortifying, enlightening, and may he steer quite clear of any and all deadly snares and traps.

My snowhobbits are thriving. We're remodelling/ redecorating our house-- forest theme. Ideally my living room would resemble a flet. Too bad Strider insists on having couches and chairs... but the men and hobbits do have a sense of what's comfortable. I suppose I can let myself get spoiled by it, again.

mark12_30

07-13-2006, 01:44 PM

The interior remodeling is mostly done: Woodland colors (a little too much tan and not enough green, but I'll work on that.) Wooden six-panel doors. The new kitchen floor has a fallen-leaf pattern. I like it. And I moved a ficus into the living room, and trained the branches to fan out in a semicircle so that it looks like a "White Tree of Gondor". THe bathroom is done in greys and blues. Now to add a mossy fountain...

We even have a back deck, thanks to Strider and his dad working on it all last week. ( Why is it that men-folk build flets four feet off of the ground, surrounded by a railing, and unattatched to any trees? And then they put "deck chairs" on it, and place the large gas grill so that it blocks the garden view? At least, it did; it's been moved.)

Strider says: "You have your flet now. Are you happy?" Of course I am! I even have two snowhobbits and a ranger to share my new flet with. I am a lucky lass. It's close to the beech trees, and the oak woods, and the rest of the garden.

Mithalwen

07-13-2006, 02:10 PM

Although I am not always great with heights, I still like the idea of a flet - I might need more than a woven screen to feel comfortable ... but if one had the money (and in my case a more substantial tree...... ) wouldn't these be fantastic? Might have to get a Euromillions ticket tomorrow ..after all I have the treelights now :D)

http://www.blueforest.com/?key=treehouse

Child of the 7th Age

07-14-2006, 10:12 AM

Mithalwen,

Thanks for that great link! Those are totally stunning. Unfortunately, I have neither an appropriate tree or the 12,000 pounds to build a treehouse! However, I was also intrigued by the section on treehouse "rentals". Most of the flet hotels seem to be in Africa. They all look amazing, but I am particularly taken by the one in Australia's Hinchinbrook National Wilderness.

All the same, some of us prefer to keep our head in the clouds, but out feet well grounded in the earth. Not fair that you Elves are hogging the spotlight with your flets! We hobbits have burrows just as comfortable and much more sensible than any Elf!

The hobbit hole is an idea whose time has come. Here are a list of advantages of underground housing, provided by the British Earth Sheltered Association. (http://www.besa-uk.org/index.html) . The first one on the list is my favorite! Maybe this is the real reason Bilbo lived so long -- forget that pesky Ring theory!

Long Life Expectancy
Better ENERGY SAVINGS than other designs
Architecturally exciting inside
Condensation is not a problem
Even Proof against Earthquakes
Does NOT contribute to, and is less affected by GLOBAL WARMING
Costs no more - maybe less to build
Unaffected by WIND or WEATHER
SAVES SPACE - Kind to the environment
Provides greater security
NO DRAUGHTS - Minimum infiltration
Exceptionally LOW FIRE RISK - so LOWER insurance premiums
Construction possible on steep slopes
Usually provides LOW VISUAL IMPACT
Very little Structural Maintenance
Quiet and Private. But light and airy
Sympathetic to elegant Landscaping

And here's another interesting article on the advantage of earth shelters: Going underground. (http://www.findaproperty.com/story.aspx?storyid=0620)

According to one website, there are about 6,000 earth dwellings in North America and 60 in Britain. I've also seen the North America figure quoted as high as a 100,000, so who knows? Over 10 million people (maybe as many as 40 million) live underground in China, but I also don't know too much about these dwellings.

Many earth sheltered homes don't look too "hobbity"--lack of round doors and such. However, a few do stand out. My favorite is Mole Manor in Yorkshire. Inside it's supposed to look like a Roman villa. Just scroll down the page for a look at the outside. Click here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/villages/nettleton_underground_house.shtml)

Now, if I can just come up with the 860,000 pound pricetag for Mole Manor, I'll be in great shape!

Hilde Bracegirdle

07-18-2006, 10:46 AM

mark12_30

07-18-2006, 11:16 AM

You know I have been pondering the great question of flets verses smials the last few days. And much as I would love either of them, I think I'd opt for a smial on a hillside as permanent housing, (and save the flet for nice self indulgent vacations). Wind storms are my main concern.

Noldo had the right idea: South facing smial on the top of a high bank overlooking a river. Secret exit out the back of the Smial into the forest (forest comes right up to the high riverbank, so the elves can come visit through the forest anytime.) Put a flet in the forest, not far from your secret attic-exit, and you've got it all covered.

mark12_30

07-18-2006, 08:36 PM

....anyone else sheltering from thunderstorms? (preparing to power down conputer...)

Hilde Bracegirdle

07-19-2006, 03:34 AM

We were supposed to have some roll through, but squeaked through the gaps in the storms, I think. Time to head for the smial, eh? :D

Mithalwen

07-19-2006, 06:21 AM

Due shortly ... I love the summer but the garden is a dust bowl ..not natural for England!!!

Estelyn Telcontar

07-19-2006, 08:58 AM

Our house is getting unseasonably hot these days - 39° high outside today! I think that must be a record. It does cool off some at night, so we open all the windows then and close and shutter them during the day. Right now a thunderstorm, with rain and cooler temperatures, sounds very tempting! Predictions are such for tomorrow, but you never know if it happens in your own area.

Fans are currently getting high usage, as we aren't equipped with air conditioning and don't normally need it here. The electrical fans are nice for getting the air moving in the house, but my wooden-staved hand fan is a very handy accessory when sitting outside or visiting others.

Actually, a hole would probably feel much better than a house these days - I know there's a city in Australia, Coober Pedy, that has underground houses, stores and even a church. That's the best way to keep constant temperatures without using a great deal of electricity in the very hot summers there!

Hilde Bracegirdle

07-19-2006, 10:11 AM

All this underground stuff reminds me of Trantor. But that another story! ;)

Anyway, it does seem a practical idea, especially when concidering energy usage, protection from some of the effects of global warming and garden space. I wonder if hobbits needed to watch their radon levels?

Lalwendë

07-20-2006, 01:01 PM

I'd love a real Hobbit hole in these temperatures! Having viking blood (its a colourful and possible explanation for being pale and loving the winter months ;)) and growing up near the coast means I just can't cope with inland heat and foul city pollution; the air was yellow outside my office window on Wednesday and my eyes were red and itching. I felt very ill indeed two evenings this week.

The only cool spot in our house is the living room, that faces south west but gets the shade of a tree all day long, and its in this weather that I'm glad that the cellar beneath it is excessively damp as the air circulates up. I don't even get the benefit of lying out roasting in the sun as I'd burn in minutes so I have to skulk in the shadows all day. :(

Mithalwen

07-21-2006, 06:28 AM

The Australian parliament is grass-roofed too - but perhaps closer to Tellytubby land than Bag-end.

I am celtic-pale and can't sunbathe but I love the light and heat since it casts out SAD... but Ihave the advantage of living by the sea and in a house that is light but seldom gets too hot (apart from my bedroom under the eaves) . I haven't had my moneys worth out of the air-cooler yet....

mark12_30

07-26-2006, 08:30 AM

The hobbit hole is an idea whose time has come. Here are a list of advantages of underground housing, provided by the British Earth Sheltered Association. (http://www.besa-uk.org/index.html) . ...
And here's another interesting article on the advantage of earth shelters: Going underground. (http://www.findaproperty.com/story.aspx?storyid=0620)
...Many earth sheltered homes don't look too "hobbity"--lack of round doors and such. However, a few do stand out. My favorite is Mole Manor in Yorkshire. Inside it's supposed to look like a Roman villa. Just scroll down the page for a look at the outside. Click here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/villages/nettleton_underground_house.shtml)

Pondering these thoughts, still. More energy efficient? Warmer in the winter? Cooler in the summer? Hmmmmm. THe only reason I hesitate (personally) is the lighting issue. I love my windows. I think I'd end up with ten front doors, all sliders-- and no back rooms.

I wonder if a small hill could be created, providing 360 degrees of lighting. In other words, create the *top* of The Hill, and go all the way around it. But then where would the woods be?

....hmmmm...

Hilde Bracegirdle

07-26-2006, 10:05 AM

But then where would the woods be?

Maybe one could go for an underground flet built amidst the roots of a large tree that sits a top a small hill. :D

Samwise

07-26-2006, 07:09 PM

Hm. :rolleyes: Even though I'm a Hobbit, I think I would like to retire to an Elvish forest and live on a flet IN a tree. Always had a dream since childhood of living in a treehouse... ;)

mark12_30

07-27-2006, 07:35 AM

Samwise, my instinctive reaction is the same as yours. It was the energy conservation thing that got me thinking.

And actually, elves having houses in the trees was really the exception to the "rule"-- Lorien only, started by Amroth. The early Elves that settled in Beleriand all hired dwarves to dig caves for them. Same with Thranduil... caves.

Seems kinda odd and un-"elvish", doesn't it? Which goes to show how much of an imprint the Lorien elves have made on our collective mind.

Samwise

07-27-2006, 04:19 PM

Samwise, my instinctive reaction is the same as yours. It was the energy conservation thing that got me thinking....

Huh...interesting. ;) Guess we Hobbits aren't the only 'simple folk...'

*If Samwise seems a bit incoherent, it is because she just got a $915 check from the EDD after being told that being accepted for disability on the first try was practically impossible.... :eek: *

Child of the 7th Age

08-31-2006, 08:14 AM

A bit more on hobbit holes. This news video on a backyard hobbit hole (http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/VideoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?vidId=67246&catId=236) brought a smile to my face, although I'm not sure if Tolkien would approve of the Sarumanesque equipment used in its construction!

Nogrod

08-31-2006, 12:44 PM

I know there are quite a few "I was reading Tolkien before the average Barrow-Downer was even born!" site members - this thread is for us! Since I don't know the average site age, I have just picked 18 as the legal coming of age. So how many of you have been reading LotR and other Tolkien books for at least 18 years? Please tell us how long ago you first read the book(s); if you like, your age at that time and what prompted you to read Tolkien.Registering for the club!

My father started reading the LotR to me in -75 when I was 8-years old. It was never finished, but I read the books a year later by myself. So it makes this my 30th anniversary with Tolkien! :)

I tried to make better of my father and actually managed to read the LotR, Silm and the Unfinished Tales to my children when they were about 5-8 (Lommy may correct the actual years of them). Lommy sure has surpassed myself in times of reading Tolkien already many years ago as I have read the basic books only 2-5 times each. And there's some time I've read any one of them the last time (I'm having The Silmarillion on my table, waiting to be read again).

-----

But I agree with you "northern-pales", being one myself by attitude if not by skin (I'm not the pale-kind like my younger daughter is), that this summer was sometimes just unbearable. A hobbit-whole would have done fine.

And all the trees and grasses dying from the drought! In August the earth has looked like we would live in the Middle-East and not in the northern part of Scandinavia (=Finland). Nothing green, just faint yellows and browns around.

Maybe it's this northern kind of attitude, but I prefer -30 (Celsius) to +30. And anyhow, from -30 you can always get in to get warm, but from +30 you have no way of escaping...

-----
For those blessed with younger hobbits, let me tell you things are not so easy! (Poor Pio has already heard an earful of this.) Perhaps this state of affairs is only in the U.S. and other countries haven't gone beserk. But, in the U.S., if you have a student who loves academics and has his or her sights set on competitive schools, or is trying to win a merit scholarship, be prepared to fork out generous amounts of dollars on SATI's, SATII's, AP's, and applications and then get set for some large headaches.Maybe you have a headstart in the U.S., but unfortunately we are following suit. I just hope my daughters will be old enough to duck the tide. As a teacher I really don't like the look of things.

Lommy (my daughter) made it to the Senior Secondary High School I'm teaching in, and that school only takes in about 150 from something like 400 applicants! Okay, it's an art-school and really hard to get in by Finnish standards, but anyhow: it's a question of principle too if you take in only a third to a school for 16-year olds! From European (North-European, Scandinavian, Finnish?) perspective it's pretty scary. The competition is heavy on those age-groups already.

(No, she didn't get in because I'm her father. She has a different surname than I have and the schoolboard didn't know she was my daughter as she applied.)

Where are the times when you were just a careless teenager trying to have fun and think about the future later, if you then would have time? :D

PS. Happily even the higher education is still "free" in Finland and even subsidiced by the state (on a very low rate, but still). But the future looks bad...

PS.2. Nice to see how one writes in the "old-timers" thread, just wailing and complaining about everything... :rolleyes:

Estelyn Telcontar

08-31-2006, 02:13 PM

How nice to see some activity here! Thanks for that link, Child - it was cute to see that homemade hobbit hole, though I must admit that I was more personally interested in another link on that page - to a newly organized sewing room!

Nogrod, welcome!! It's great to have another "member" with stories to tell. Maybe now that autumn is on its way, we'll put some logs in the fireplace, pull our rocking chairs closer, and enjoy the company.

Samwise

08-31-2006, 03:14 PM

Welcome, Nogrod!
Ah, yes...Fall will soon be upon us. :( My garden is still not doing too badly, though. My morning glories this year went NUTS !!! I am going to have to get another ladder for them to climb, if you follow me. Doubtless when they're done
they'll reseed themselves AGAIN, and I'll have MORE next year!

In other news, broke (well, cracked) my elbow a couple of weekends ago, proof that old bones do get brittle (LOL...). Well, it might have been better if my elbow had not come in contact with the asphalt. I was taking my Grip/Fangesque dog to see a little friend of his, and the pooch got over excited and ran, yanking me down before I could get a foothold. OWWWW.... :( My arm's still not quite right, but it's getting there.

Nogrod

09-02-2006, 04:58 PM

Maybe now that autumn is on its way, we'll put some logs in the fireplace, pull our rocking chairs closer, and enjoy the company.That sounds absolutely charming indeed! :)

And really, why not? Maybe this could be the fireside around of which the stories are shared? And the company enjoyed.

Looking forwards to it, after the rush of the beginning of the semester goes by.

Mithalwen

09-04-2006, 01:33 PM

Hooray Noggin has joined the ranks of the old fogeys :D

Well the UK system is not getting better... I feel increasingly privileged to have received 5 years of HE almost for free - having caught the end of Maintenance grants and started University in the year my father retired my parents didn't have to contribute much for me though they had to pay a lot for my sister .... :rolleyes:

My cousin's son at least has got lower rate tuition fees but despite having got straight As in "serious" subjects, and getting to a good university to read a highly competitive subject he really isn't getting a lot out of university which is really sad. He has only about 4 hours of lectures and is really sticking it out just to get the piece of paper. It really seems so sad that someone who is so naturally academic and worked so hard at school is finding Uni a waste of time... and a great deal of money..

I still think he should have done PPE instead of Law but noone listens to the family harpy.... :D

PS Am I the only one who feels bereaved by the summer ending? - I gave in and took down the gazebo on Saturday since it was about to take off and put the air cooler back in it's corner. Soon I shall have to start wearing proper shoes and eugh..tights... I already think I shall have to switch back to the autumn duvet. I got used to the cold when I lived on the edge of the Massif Central in France but it is the damp and dark that gets me....

Hilde Bracegirdle

09-05-2006, 06:03 AM

The cooler air has been lurking about here also, and it has been a race to see whether my vegetables or the frost will arrive first. I'm banking on the vegies though, as they have finally started blooming (in abundance).

Sorry to hear about your elbow Samwise. That must put a damper on things for you. Was it the right or left?

A belated welcome to the gathering, Mr. Nogrod! Sorry I didn't speak up earlier, must have nodded off over the holiday weekend here.

I tell you, I am getting increasingly scared of the up coming price tag for sending my daughter off to school. I have a few years yet, and am hoping that she gets into a program where she can she attend college while in High School, at the County's expense. We live in a rural area with no AP classes, so it might just happen. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and hoping we could find a way to manage the commute as well!

Mithalwen, you got me curious now, what does PPE stand for, exactly? I'm getting a bit better at deciphering English educational terms, (I think), but that there one has me stumped!

Mithalwen

09-05-2006, 10:49 AM

Sorry, Hilde it is a bit specialised, PPE is an acronym for "Politics, Philosophy and Economics" which is degree programme run by a few notable universities here (Oxford, LSE - (London School of Economics). Since Adam did these subjects at A level and enjoyed them as well as excelling it seemed like a good option and he could have still done law just taking an extra year postgrad. But he decided he did n't want to take the extra time and now he is so bored that he spends as much time as posssible doing stuff with the University Naval Reserve and may well sign up for at least a short service commission .. if he does that his Law degree is likely to "die" for the purpose of Law Society Exemptions and so he could end up doing the extra year anyway ... so he might as well have done subject she liked in the first place :rolleyes: . A lot depends on whether his desire to make a lot of money wins out over his love of reaching the top of a structured hierarchy... he is such a Capricorn.... :p

Hilde Bracegirdle

09-05-2006, 11:01 AM

Thank you, that is unfortunate for him, though. Very strange that sometimes it is what appears to be the less sensible route that winds up the more sensible!

Mithalwen

09-05-2006, 11:04 AM

Thank you, that is unfortunate for him, though. Very strange that sometimes it is what appears to be the less sensible route that winds up the more sensible!

Indeed, but you have to let people make their own decisions and cope withthe consequences .. & try not to say "I told you so" ... I am sure he will be ok ... but I just find it a sad state of affairs generally.... Pity that, unlike I believe in the US, the Navy won't pay for his education...

Child of the 7th Age

09-16-2006, 06:31 PM

Back to an older topic....more on Middle-earth housing: Middle-earth subdivision with some steep prices. (http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=8fc5e17d-fe23-450b-bdff-ae36f3842419&k=43414)

I'm not so sure about this one :confused: Still, it seems people are hunting for something they feel that could be realized in a community like this.

mark12_30

09-21-2006, 06:34 PM

...yikers, nosebleed prices....

I'll stick to building a flet. Although a hobbit-hole with a flet above would be perfect.

Still, we've promised our boys a tree-house. No Mallorns... But, there's a big pine on our North side that should do well.

Still haven't found my old twine bowstring for the black longbow. But we did get a brown recurve, inching up on the draw weight (longbow is 30#, recurve is 35#... a yeoman I'm not...) so I'm shooting the recurve, and will try to get a string made for the black longbow when I can... My husband and son are going hi-tech (Matthews, Genesis). Husband (Strider) and elder son (Name the Elf... inching towards 'Legolas'...) are both sooting faithfully every day-- but not me. I've been too achy lately. I hoe it's not another round of Lyme disease-- :eek: -- but that's what it feels like. Ech.

piosenniel

09-21-2006, 06:46 PM

I do like the sculptures (http://www.bendshire.com/index.php?p=2&side=sculptures) featured in that Shire development you pointed out, Child.

I live @ 120 miles from Bend, where the development is going in. Maybe I can budget the extra gas dollars for a road trip to see what's what. :)

~*~ Pio

Hilde Bracegirdle

09-22-2006, 04:56 AM

Wow, isn't the swordsman's cottage interesting! Though given my budget a rowhouse would be more appropriate.... ;)

Thanks for the link Pio.

Mithalwen

09-25-2006, 02:44 PM

I have to say, and I do realise that I am lucky in that I live where I can see if not live in the real thing, that I think this is just hideous and twee. It would be like living on a film set or in a theme park. I'd rather have an eco home or a roundhouse.

piosenniel

09-25-2006, 02:49 PM

Bend, Oregon is a place where many wealthy . . . ahem, Californians . . . own vacation homes, have relocated, etc. etc. So the thought of them wanting to live in a well regulated/theme parky sort of place really doesn't seem too far out, imho ;)

~*~ Pio

Mithalwen

09-25-2006, 02:56 PM

That makes sense then ... also the prices ... scotches my impression that property prices were much cheaper in the States....

It does remind me of the story (and it may be apocryphal and I know not all americans are like this before I get flamed :p ... some of my best friends are American...) of the American tourist who when asked what he thought of Windsor Castle, replied that it was great but he couldn't understand why they had built it so close to Heathrow Airport....

Lalwendë

09-25-2006, 03:30 PM

For it be a genuinely authentic English village it would need the following: a tetchy farmer with several illegal firearms hidden under his bed and who likes shouting "Get orf my land!", a bus service which turns up twice a week, a postmistress who knows everyone's business, a pair of fussy spinster vergers who tut every time they pass the pub and are viciously territorial about their rights to arrange the flowers in church, some sulky teenagers hanging round the back of the village hall, a smattering of aluminium industrial sheds put up by farmers with EU subsidies just to obscure everyone's nice view. :D

My mum lived in a thatched cottage and woke up one night to find every surface in her room crawling with huge black beetles that had come out of the thatch. So beware if you fancy a 'chocolate box cottage' one day... :eek:

davem

09-25-2006, 03:50 PM

'Bend'

Come, friendly bombs, and fall on Bend
It isn't fit for humans, end
The bland, pretentious, ugly trend
Of plastic thatch

Come, bombs, and blow to smithereens
Those air-conditioned, bright demenes
Fake homes, fake lives, fake thoughts, fake scenes
Fake minds; dispatch.

(with apologies to John Betjeman)

Child of the 7th Age

09-25-2006, 06:23 PM

davem,

Perhaps you'd prefer Isengard? (http://www.housing.uci.edu/me/hall_Desc.asp)

Bombing faux houses or their residents into the ground seems a bit extreme. This dwelling is not my kind of thing but I don't see any harm in it, and I like the sculpture Pio found.

Now, I am speaking as a Texan. In the American West, real earth-sheltered dwellings have a long and proud history and were used extensively by the settlers. Simple and sturdy, made of sod, they were incredibly effective in keeping out the bitter winter blizzards. The original ones were a long way from Kitsch, and I suspect that more than one Sam Gamgee type was born in such humble surroundings.

There are still folk in the upper midwest and plains states who carry on this earth sheltered tradition and add a bit of Tolkien into the equation just for fun. See here. (http://www.tc.umn.edu/~d-lena/Tolkthot.html)

Perhaps you'd like a sod house?

P.S. Where in the blazes is "Valimar"? :D

Hilde Bracegirdle

09-25-2006, 06:24 PM

Now for another example of American charm, well sort of. I hope it won't be seeing any bombs, anyway.

The Bake House at the Ephrata Cloister (http://www.ephratacloister.org/VirtualTour/bakery.jpg)

They've got a room reserved for me, but no place to plug in the computer!
Hilde's room (http://www.ephratacloister.org/VirtualTour/beisselinterior.jpg)

Lalwendë

09-26-2006, 02:06 AM

I have to ask what's wrong with davem's use of Sir John Betjeman's Slough? In the spirit of the original it does not want Bend to be bombed, but makes an ironic point about fake plastic towns. Of course not all readers might understand the concept of metaphor or irony, but this is one of Britain's most beloved poems and it was used entirely in the spirit of it.

I understand Tolkien himself liked Betjeman too, both were men of a similar mind, so please let's step back from thinking there's any malice, because there wasn't. It's called British humour, something Tolkien's books are filled with. And to underline the point about irony, Slough was bombed in the war and nobody held Betjeman responsible or strung him up from a lamp-post in front of a bogus Tudor bar.

Getting quite fed up with the vendetta now. It's childish. And please think about that before censoring my comments.

Here's the original:

Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough!
It isn't fit for humans now,
There isn't grass to graze a cow.
Swarm over, Death!

Come, bombs and blow to smithereens
Those air -conditioned, bright canteens,
Tinned fruit, tinned meat, tinned milk, tinned beans,
Tinned minds, tinned breath.

Mess up the mess they call a town-
A house for ninety-seven down
And once a week a half a crown
For twenty years.

And get that man with double chin
Who'll always cheat and always win,
Who washes his repulsive skin
In women's tears:

And smash his desk of polished oak
And smash his hands so used to stroke
And stop his boring dirty joke
And make him yell.

But spare the bald young clerks who add
The profits of the stinking cad;
It's not their fault that they are mad,
They've tasted Hell.

It's not their fault they do not know
The birdsong from the radio,
It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead

And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various bogus-Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead.

In labour-saving homes, with care
Their wives frizz out peroxide hair
And dry it in synthetic air
And paint their nails.

Come, friendly bombs and fall on Slough
To get it ready for the plough.
The cabbages are coming now;
The earth exhales.

piosenniel

09-26-2006, 02:22 AM

Fake homes, fake lives, fake thoughts, fake scenes
Fake minds; dispatch.

Actually, it seemed right on, to me. And funny . . .

Thanks for the original poem, Lal -

. . . It's not their fault they often go
To Maidenhead

And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various bogus-Tudor bars
And daren't look up and see the stars
But belch instead . . .

Even funnier and more pointed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Child

I think that Valimar was probably supposed to be Valimart - the Elvish equivalent of Walmart (I'm sure I recall this as mentioned in one of those much overlooked footnotes in Sauron Defeated.)

Bur REALLY --- there is a Valimar:

A name of the city of the Valar in Valinor, more commonly referred to as 'Valmar'; the city of many bells in the east of Valinor where many of the Valar dwelt. The Two Trees of Valinor grew nearby on the mound of Ezellohar.

Nessa, the wife of Tulkas and sister to Oromë often dances there --

". . . she also is lithe and fleetfooted. Deer she loves, and they follow her train whenever she goes in the wild; but she can outrun them, swift as an arrow with the wind in her hair. In dancing she delights, and she dances in Valimar on lawns of never-fading green."
--Valaquenta

~*~ Pio

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

09-26-2006, 02:45 AM

Sauron Defeated? Surely you mean that mainstay of the HoME Extended Edition, Things J.R.R. Tolkien probably said (vol. XLI). I believe the comment was written on a beer mat advertising Theakstons Old Peculier, beside "What's it all about? I mean really, when you get down to it."

I wonder how much of the recent popularity of Slough is due to its use in series 1 of The Office. Naturally, I was nearly getting into fights by quoting it too loudly long before then.

As certain as the sun behind the Downs
And quite as plain to see, the Devil walks

Lalwendë

09-26-2006, 02:49 AM

My only problem was that he has spelled demesne incorrectly. ;)

Sure it's not bland humour, but it's irony, and irony is not bland. Anyone might find a lot of it in LotR. So, I presume this is what he has been banned for again? Seeing as he has been denied the common courtesy of being told why this time?

And yes I will stick out my neck and ask why and challenge this as it is very, very silly.

The Downs is becoming a frightening place.

piosenniel

09-26-2006, 03:47 AM

Aaah, that was it, Squatter, the HoME E E . . . I'll beg off, saying, that it's quite late here and a long shift at work has befuddled me.

In the befuddled vein . . . I've always wondered where the Peculier, in Old Peculier comes from. Does anyone know?

And thanks for the intro to John Betjeman. Ignorant git that I am I'd never heard of him. I did google him and read a number of his poems (http://www.poemhunter.com/i/ebooks/pdf/sir_john_betjeman_2004_9.pdf#search=%22%20John%20B etjeman%20poems%22) - quite delightful.

Oh, for anyone else not familiar with 'Original sin on the Sussex Coast' by him, here's the poem in full:

Original Sin on the Sussex Coast - Sir John Betjeman

Now on this out of season afternoon
Day schools which cater for the sort of boy
Whose parents go by Pullman once a month
To do a show in town, pour out their young
Into the sharply red October light.
Here were The Drive and Buckhurst Road converge
I watch the rival gangs and am myself
A schoolboy once again in shivering shorts.
I see the dust of sherbet on the chin
Of Andrew Knox well-dress’d, well-born, well-fed,
Even at nine a perfect gentleman,
Willie Buchanan waiting at his side—
Another Scot, eruptions on his skin.
I hear Jack Drayton whistling from the fence
Which hides the copper domes of "Cooch Behar".
That was the signal. So there’s no escape.
A race for Willow Way and jump the hedge
Behind the Granville Bowling Club? Too late.
They’ll catch me coming out in Seapink Lane.
Across the Garden of Remembrance? No,
That would be blasphemy and bring bad luck.
Well then, I’m for it. Andrew’s at me first,
He pinions me in that especial grip
His brother learned in Kobe from a Jap
(No chance for me against the Japanese).
Willie arrives and winds me with a punch
Plum in the tummy, grips the other arm.
"You’re to be booted. Hold him steady, chaps!"
A wait for taking aim. Oh trees and sky!
Then crack against the column of my spine,
Blackness and breathlessness and sick with pain
I stumble on the asphalt. Off they go
Away, away, thank God, and out of sight
So that I lie quite still and climb to sense
Too out of breath and strength to make a sound.

Now over Polegate vastly sets the sun;
Dark rise the Downs from darker looking elms,
And out of Southern railway trains to tea
Run happy boys down various Station Roads,
Satchels of homework jogging on their backs,
So trivial and so healthy in the shade
Of these enormous Downs. And when they’re home,
When the Post-Toasties mixed with Golden Shred
Make for the kiddies such a scrumptious feast,
Does Mum, the Persil-user, still believe
That there’s no Devil and that youth is bliss?
As certain as the sun behind the Downs
And quite as plain to see, the Devil walks.

The Saucepan Man

09-26-2006, 04:00 AM

Lal

I agree that it is only fair to explain why davem has been banned.

It was not because of his parody of Slough. It was perhaps a somewhat harsh reaction on his part to the conversation, particularly as it was given without any context, and it was capable of giving offence. But it was certainly not, in itself, something that would ever result in a ban.

Davem was banned because of what might be called a course of conduct. Having justifiably had a temporary ban imposed upon him for having used unrestrained, disrespectful and insulting language on the Lord of the Bible thread, he returned more or less unrepentant and continued to question the basis for that ban. Even when he eventually decided to leave that thread, he “carried the fight” on to other threads such as First Editions (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=489863&postcount=20) and Tolkien’s Literary Executor (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=489949&postcount=9). The parting "asides" in posts such as this were clear and deliberate attempts to question that basis for his temporary ban and challenge the authority of those who imposed it.

But, for me, the straw that broke the camel’s back was his ugly post on the Lord of the Rings labelled racist (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=490351&postcount=65) thread. Fundamentalism aside, Christian beliefs are perfectly acceptable, both on this board and in wider society. Racist beliefs are not. Whatever the philosophical niceties of the argument, to suggest that those claiming a Christian subtext to LotR may be compared to those claiming a racist subtext was, in my view, shameful (and, as I have made clear many times, I am not a particularly religious person).

The forum policies (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=206774#post206774) state very clearly that flaming, trolling and insulting behaviour are not acceptable on this forum. They are hardly difficult to observe (the overwhelming majority of members having no difficulty keeping to them) and they are there for a reason. They help make this place what it is. Anyone who has been to a less refined, less organised forum will understand what I mean here. It is simply not acceptable to go around ignoring those policies and riding roughshod over the feelings of other members.

Davem was warned on many occasions about his behaviour, but chose to ignore those warnings. No one takes any delight in seeing a member like him banned but, if he is incapable of abiding by the forum policies, then the question arises whether he should be here. As in any society, one must abide by the rules that govern it and heed the polite requests of those who are charged with enforcing them. As I have said, the rules here are hardly onerous.

A significant amount of Mod and Admin time has been taken up with addressing davem’s behaviour. Mods and admins are not paid. They do what they do voluntarily. And there comes a point at which they are no longer prepared to waste their time dealing with a member who is clearly not prepared to listen to them.

In any event, ultimately, the Barrow-Wight took the view that davem was taking up too much Admin/Mod time and, since it was clear that he was not prepared to modify his behaviour, decided to ban him. That was the Barrow-Wight's decision, although I must say that it is one which, in all the circumstances, I agree with.

I hope that’s clear.

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

09-26-2006, 05:44 AM

I've always wondered where the Peculier, in Old Peculier comes from. Does anyone know?

Here's the full story about that peculiar name straight from the horse's mouth (http://www.theakstons.co.uk/BL/Perculier%20Tale.htm).

Yes, Slough is quite biting, but that's essential to its message. However, as Saucepan has been very forthcoming above, I think we can discount any controversial effect here. John Betjeman is a poet who sometimes divides critical opinion, but there is nearly always a philosophical point behind his suburban themes. The centenary of his birth was celebrated recently, so he's been back in the limelight in Britain of late, which can only be a good thing. A defence of his poetry was published by the current Poet Laureate, Andrew Motion, in last month's Radio Times.

Mithalwen

09-26-2006, 08:14 AM

Snowdog

10-02-2006, 01:02 AM

G'Day Barrowwights! I had a cup of coffee in my Barrow Downs coffee cup and realized i hadn't been by in ages.
Bend, Oregon is a place where many wealthy . . . ahem, Californians . . . own vacation homes, have relocated, etc. etc. So the thought of them wanting to live in a well regulated/theme parky sort of place really doesn't seem too far out, imho ;)

~*~ Pio
There is the exceptional Deschutes Brewery (http://www.deschutesbrewery.com) in Bend though. Love the Twilight Ale, the Mirror Pond, the Black Butte Porter, and the Obsidian Stout! :cool:

Oh, a banning! Been there, done that. It doesn't pay to battle the authorities of a messageboard if you wish to stay, even if the mod/admins enforcement of said boards policies seems to you to be uneven.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-03-2006, 07:26 PM

I don't think I follow you Saucy.

I'm afraid I fail to see the connetion between what you say and what I read in the links you provided, and I also fail to see the reason for your post only being here. I would think it more appropiate also to give this info a place where everybody would see it- since it has a lot of people confused.

The Saucepan Man

10-05-2006, 02:47 AM

Rune

It is not our policy to make general announcements when members are banned. My post above was made to respond specifically to the confusion which arose on this thread and to correct a misunderstanding which had occurred.

Davem was behaving in a manner which the moderators and admins of the Downs (who give their time voluntarily to run and manage this site for the benefit of all of its members) considered to be disruptive and contrary to the forum policies against disrespectful and offensive posting. Despite many warnings, he continued to do so. In light of this, and having seen a considerable amount of time spent by the mods and admins in debate over the situation, the Barrow-Wight made the decision to ban him without further explanation. Davem was well aware of what led to his banishment.

It was a decision taken in good faith, in what was considered to be the best interests of the Downs. It is not, however, a matter upon which any of the mods or admins intend to engage in further debate.

mark12_30

10-05-2006, 07:05 PM

How's the pup doing, Saucie? I have a weak spot for a good dog. Mine's a treasure.

On another topic, I suddenly feel inclined to mention: Raefindel has been churning out gorgeous cards, at an impressive rate. I am particulary blessed to have been a steady recipient. She is a very faithful correspondant, so the area over my dresser has become a display for her artwork. Unfortunately I very rarely put pen to paper. Had I the blank wallspace I might consider papering it with her cards... :p

If you find your interest or curiosity piqued, do drop her a line, as she has been building up an inventory.

Has anybody listened to the last RIVENDELL album by Tolkien Ensemble? I fully intend to buy it, once it shows up in the stores. But I'm very eager to hear some reviews...

Child of the 7th Age

10-05-2006, 11:08 PM

Helen,

Regarding the Rivendell CD...

I recently purchased the Tolkien Ensemble's Leaving Rivendell. Is this the title you're referring to, or is there a later one? I haven't even had a chance to take off the plastic cover, but hope to listen over the weekend.

mark12_30

10-06-2006, 05:32 AM

Yes, that's the one. It's at Amazon--

Leaving Rivendell (http://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Rivendell-Casper-Reiff/dp/B000BLI3UW/sr=8-1/qid=1160134248/ref=sr_1_1/002-7184696-2984859?ie=UTF8&s=music)

...but there are no clips... :(

Rikae

10-09-2006, 09:18 PM

Oh, my goodness ...I just barely qualify to join the club. I read LotR for the first time in 1987 ( that is, when I was eight...er...let's just say months old :D). May I crash the party?

Hilde Bracegirdle

10-10-2006, 03:45 AM

Pull up a chair and make yourself at home Rikae! :D

Fordim Hedgethistle

10-10-2006, 10:20 AM

Pull up a chair and make yourself at home Rikae! :D

Make that a rocking chair. And close the door behind you youngun, you want me to catch a chill? :mad:

Hilde Bracegirdle

10-10-2006, 02:07 PM

Oh, it looks like the next project will be weaving Fordim a shawl! Wonder if there are any runes that protect from the common cold...wouldn't hurt to include a few tastefully placed along the border.

Bêthberry

10-10-2006, 03:38 PM

Wonder if there are any runes that protect from the common cold...wouldn't hurt to include a few tastefully placed along the border.

Ohhh! What an excellent idea, Hilde! After all, if information about the Underground Railroad was sewn into quilts in nineteenth century America, who's to say that runes wouldn't provide some useful reading for Fordim to do even if he perchance still contacted a cold? :D

Nogrod

10-10-2006, 03:58 PM

Or then one might just take on the old Estonian custom. When one is having a flu, just dip your socks in booze (clear one, like Vodka) and wear them overnight... They say it works (I've never tried but tend to believe that these age-old traditions tend to "work").

Fordim Hedgethistle

10-10-2006, 06:20 PM

I've tried dipping one's self in booze overnight....didn't get rid of the flu but somehow I didn't seem to mind as much....

I love the idea of a shawl. I like bright colours. Green is nice.

Hilde Bracegirdle

10-10-2006, 07:54 PM

I can just see buying an large bottle of vodka and demurely telling the shop keeper that it is for my feet! :D I wonder if it works...at least my feet would be squeaky clean and santized after that...socks too!

Fordrim, I've a nice green wool shawl in the closet already that I could lend you, Unfortunately it is embroidered with bright posies. I didn't think you'd go for that. No, I think it best to make one, maybe green with gold thread?

Child of the 7th Age

10-11-2006, 11:05 AM

I wanted to share this with someone, although perhaps I'm the last one to stumble onto it? It is a linguistic site called the Glǽmscrafu, or Glittering Caves that started in July 2006. It's real ear candy and the perfect site for codgers in rocking chairs.

This French site has a lengthy list of words and names invented by Tolkien. (http://www.jrrvf.com/~glaemscrafu/texts/tolkienhimselflotrhob-a.htm) . Click on any of these and you wll hear the sonorous voice of JRRT pronouncing the particular Elvish word or phrase. I own a recording of Tolkien reading from certain texts, but I've never seen it broken down like this. I have now learned how badly I've been pronouncing some of these words, despite the syllabic guides presented on other sites.

If you click on the site's "Cellar", you can also reach a wide assortment of texts ---Tolkien's poems in the original languages plus samples of related tongues like Finnish, Welsh, or Gothic. Once again, if you click the link to the right side, you can hear a brief extract from many of these.

I've never heard anything quite like this, or maybe there are others I don't know. Apparently the site has been developed by Bertrand Bellet and Benjamin Babut, who are with the Sindarin dictionary project. Even Carl F. Hostetter is encouraging them to try and get the estate's blessing on the dictionary (a separate site) to get it published. Anyways, these velvet sounds are a perfect accompaniment to my old rocking chair.

Fordim Hedgethistle

10-11-2006, 11:31 AM

Cool! :smokin:

piosenniel

10-20-2006, 05:36 PM

W:eek:W (http://www.jrrvf.com/~glaemscrafu/texts/index-a.htm), Child!

Thanks for the link :D

~*~ Pio

Mithadan

10-24-2006, 10:15 PM

Excellent site!

Sorry I haven't been around much lately.

mark12_30

10-25-2006, 04:14 AM

Hey, who was that guy?? Looked kinda familiar.

Mithadan

10-25-2006, 07:30 AM

M-m-m-m-mark? I don't recall you having a stutter... ;)

mark12_30

10-25-2006, 08:23 AM

*Sniff sniff*

**Pokes corpse**

Yup, that's definitely him, all right.

;)

Well, shut mah mouth.

Hilde Bracegirdle

10-25-2006, 10:25 AM

Nice to see you back and posting, Mithadan!

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

10-31-2006, 07:37 AM

Welcome back, Grey Man. Whatever you did on your sabbatical it's obviously recharged your batteries. It's been a while since I saw so prolific a return.

Child of the 7th Age

10-31-2006, 10:59 AM

:rolleyes:

This one's a little strange! Outrage as J. R. R. Tolkien's Pipe and Teeth Appear on e-bay. (http://www.the-spine.com/archives/374) At least we can definitively say this is a joke. Click on the other links on this website, and you'll see some announcements that are even whackier than this one.

Samwise

11-11-2006, 03:55 PM

Got a nice birthday greeting from the 'Downs, so I figured I'd stop in and say hello. ;)

Three years ago today my Hobbit self came of age, if you take my meaning...ah, good times... :)

Going out for an early dinner, soon. Have a lovely rest of your Veteran's day, all! :D

Rikae

11-18-2006, 05:39 PM

Ah, ok, here's where it's happening. I went and posted on the archived version of this - dementia settling in, I suppose.

Anyway, I guess I fall in the 'of age' category, although it's my nature to procrastinate and do everything late, from being born at 42 weeks to finishing college at 29 (if I do manage that, I still have a year to go.)

I promise I won't speak again until I've read the thread and have something relevant to say. :D

mark12_30

11-19-2006, 06:23 AM

Relevant? Who said anything about Relevant? As long as it's TOlkienish, of course.

Went to Stop & Shop a couple of days ago and got some amused looks, because my 7-year old was wearing his elvish tunic and cloak (tunic home-made, cloak by Raefindel.) He has almost-white hair. Dunno if there are any elves that classified as towheads, but folks notice anyway.

Alphaelin

01-30-2007, 01:44 AM

Hello Old Downers!

Like Samwise, it occurred to me that I've been away for quite a long while -- far too long! This is always the first thread I check on the Downs, just to see who's about. I do believe I'll settle into a comfy chair and see if I can't rustle up some proper 1420 to drink while I look around.

Welcome to the thread, Rikae! Glad you found it.

Hmmm, what are the young folks in Chapter-by-Chapter up to these days?......

Estelyn Telcontar

01-30-2007, 08:50 AM

Nice to have you looking in, Alph! Yes, those young folks are plowing their way through the Silmarillion now; it's strenuous just to read, and would be much more so to take an active part! ;)

Alphaelin

02-01-2007, 01:42 AM

Thanks for the welcome back, Esty !

I saw the 'Silm' threads in Chapter-by-Chapter and look forward to reading them. I found this book a hard read also, probably because it was put together by Christopher Tolkien after his father's death. Parts of The Silmarillion seem remote to me, not chronologically, but as in being harder to relate to. Had Tolkien ever been able to complete stories in his lifetime, I think I would find the book more engrossing. As important as the stories (or story?) of the Legendarium are, Tolkien, when he knew he was writing for publication at least, gave his readers well-developed characters to carry the story along and lots of detail to fire the imagination.

I seem to have gone off on a tangent there more suited to the Books -- whoops!

<Pours another ale and wanders off to the Books, with perhaps a side trip to Mirth>

Child of the 7th Age

03-18-2007, 03:20 AM

Another hobbit domicile....

I rather like this one. (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/inside-hobbit-house.aspx)

Estelyn Telcontar

03-18-2007, 08:09 AM

That is gorgeous, Sharon! Thanks for sharing. I'd actually love to live in a cottage like that - and since this clubhouse is wholly imaginary, can't we just imagine that this is what it looks like?!

*pulls her rocking chair closer to the lovely fireplace*

Bêthberry

03-18-2007, 10:01 AM

It is a beautifully constructed work and what a lovely idea to imagine it home to our nook of the Barrow! I am quite happy to consider a chair in that back room, browsing through those manuscripts. Oh to find Tolkien's journal or personal diary!

I have to hope, though, that this cottage has an excellent security system, as its unique style must draw attention to itself (unless it be hidden in the middle of the owner's property) as does the magazine article. Taunton Press is well know for its quality magazines. I would hope that no light-fingered sorts peruse its pages. :eek:

Nogrod

03-18-2007, 04:22 PM

Nice, indeed.

But are there people around here who could actually afford that? I mean in today's society both being on the edge or having a decent handcraft both pay too much for the common folks... :(

With state/community salaries you can just try to put up with your block of flats (rented) and not to think about these things. :p

Lalwendë

03-18-2007, 04:55 PM

“I came back my client and said, ‘I’m not going to make this look like Hollywood,’” Archer recalled,

...instead he made it look like a fake stone and concrete Disneyland ticket booth.

:p

davem

03-18-2007, 05:23 PM

The site was critical too—and Archer found the perfect one a short walk away from his client’s main house, where an 18th-century dry-laid wall ran through the property. “I thought, wouldn’t it be wonderful to build the structure into the wall?”

Not only did the wall anchor the cottage, but stones from another section were used in the cottages construction. “It literally grew out of the site,” Archer said.

So he dismantled part of an EIGHTEENTH CENTURY wall, something that a craftsman had built over two hundred years ago to knock up this mock tudor monstrosity?

I suppose its fortunate there wasn't an 18th Century cottage on the property, or I expect that stones from that would have been used in the construction too....

Reminds me of a pub in a 1970's sitcom, complete with stone cladding, plastic beams & Terry Scott leaning on the bar in his aran sweater, quaffing Watney's Red Barrel from a pewter tankard ...

Boo Radley

03-18-2007, 07:26 PM

Just thought I'd drop by and say "Hi".
Announcements and Obituaries???
Egad, how old are some of you, eh?

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2007, 03:17 AM

...instead he made it look like a fake stone and concrete Disneyland ticket booth.

Appears I've stirred up some fuss and feathers with my casually thown out link. :p

Ah.... But frankly, there are times in life when a Disneyland ticket booth may be the best thing you've got going. Lal - you and davem are fortunate to have the real thing not too far from your doorstep.....genuine thatch, and wattle and daub....certainly better than what this builder has done. Some of us are not so lucky. Certainly, folk in Pennsylvania do not have access to such wonders. (You can find some great Amish barns still standing yonder--the "real thing" by local standards, but if your heart beats to another drum you've got problems.) And from my time living in that neck of the woods and knowing the work of local historical/restoration groups, my guess is that the 18th century wall was already disintegrating into a pile of barely usable rubble or was about to be obliterated by another builder. Local restoration is my thing. Right now I'm in one group that's battling to save one of the oldest theaters in the southwest, and another that's trying to uncover and restore cottages of the earliest freedmen who settled in Houston following the civil war. Unfortunately, neither group is having great success. A lone wall would probably find the going even tougher.

Kitschy this domicile may be, but it's got to be better than the same old, same old stuff that lines the streets of my own blah urban neighborhood. No wattle and daub in sight. No forays into modernism either. Very dull and conforming. For the past few days, our family's been dealing with some tough, tough decisons about a family member who can no longer live on her own. I could frankly use an hour or two sitting in that library and letting my brain unbend. It's got to be better than my cluttered kitchen table!

Nogrod -- As to the pricetag attached....of course you're right. My dad was a labor organizer; my grandfather a miner. I have definite sympathies in that direction. But neither of us can truly change the ways of the world or people's ultimate priorities. So I will keep poking about on the internet and searching out such architectural oddities. Whoever built that thing at least had to have one spark alive in his/her heart, not to be content with the "usual".

And now....another link. A soothing link with music, which will hopefully be an improvement over my last offering. Ted Nasmith has recently come out with a CD of Tolkien inspired music. Here's a sample of the thing concerning Queen Beruthiel: ADC (http://www.adcbooks.co.uk/) There's also info on this in Nasmith's website. Just scroll down to The Hidden Door CD, (http://www.tednasmith.com/)

****************

Boo,

The first time I saw you on the site, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your name! I am a great admirer of Scout and Boo.

As to how ancient we are on this site and in this forum....well, I suppose that varies from one person to the next. I was a teenager in the early to mid-sixties when I first read Tolkien. I've been reading and collecting ever since in between the normal joys and headaches of life. I'm not sure if that qualifies me for an obituary in your eyes!

davem

03-19-2007, 07:19 AM

I suppose we are lucky here, with 17-18th century cottages being fairly commonplace not too many miles away in Derbyshire - & axon churches are not too rare either - there was one in the village where I was born. There's even a Norman castle (Conisborough, which served as Sir Walter Scott's inspiration for Ivanhoe, not 20 miles away).

As to Ted Naismith, I've heard him perform some of his songs at Oxonmoot a few times (usually duetting with the dreaded Alex Lewis!).

Mithalwen

03-19-2007, 07:27 AM

Boo Radley

03-19-2007, 08:48 AM

Boo,

The first time I saw you on the site, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your name! I am a great admirer of Scout and Boo.

As to how ancient we are on this site and in this forum....well, I suppose that varies from one person to the next. I was a teenager in the early to mid-sixties when I first read Tolkien. I've been reading and collecting ever since in between the normal joys and headaches of life. I'm not sure if that qualifies me for an obituary in your eyes!

Not quite, for we are of about an age, I'm thinking.
I discovered Tolkien back in 1970, I believe. The Fellowship was checked out of the library, so I started with the Two towers.
Not the best start.
So, I took that back and waited for Fellowship to be returned, checked it out and have never looked back.

davem

03-19-2007, 01:15 PM

Actually ... apart from the gingery wood which I am phobic about, I rather like this one .... it looks rather like Tolkien's own pictures and there is an ancient tradition or reusing stone from disused walls ....which is why Hadrian's is incomplete ;) ... also it is using proper materials .and proper craftsmen... It just needs weathering..... and that door painted green....and a few dwarf hood hanging in the hall.. and clutter ..far too tidy for a hobbit hole

Still find it bland & fake. Doesn't inspire me & the thought of living there gives me the heebie-jeebies. It actually strikes me as a 'mockery' of Tolkien's world, a secondary world which exists only in the mind.

We need a word for this elvish craft, but all the words that have been applied to it have been blurred and confused with other things. Magic is ready to hand, and I have used it above (p. 39), but I should not have done so: Magic should be reserved for the operations of the Magician. Art is the human process that produces by the way (it is not its only or ultimate object) Secondary Belief. Art of the same sort, if more skilled and effortless, the elves can also use, or so the reports seem to show; but the more potent and specially elvish craft I will, for lack of a less debatable word, call Enchantment. Enchantment produces a Secondary World into which both designer and spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside; but in its purity it is artistic in desire and purpose. Magic produces, or pretends to produce, an alteration in the Primary World. It does not matter by whom it is said to be practised, fay or mortal, it remains distinct from the other two; it is not an art but a technique; its desire is power in this world, domination of things and wills. To the elvish craft, Enchantment, Fantasy aspires, and when it is successful of all forms of human art most nearly approaches. At the heart of many man-made stories of the elves lies, open or concealed, pure or alloyed, the desire for a living, realized sub-creative art, which (however much it may outwardly resemble it) is inwardly wholly different from the greed for self-centred power which is the mark of the mere Magician. Of this desire the elves, in their better (but still perilous) part, are largely made; and it is from them that we may learn what is the central desire and aspiration of human Fantasy—even if the elves are, all the more in so far as they are, only a product of Fantasy itself. That creative desire is only cheated by counterfeits, whether the innocent but clumsy devices of the human dramatist, or the malevolent frauds of the magicians. In this world it is for men unsatisfiable, and so imperishable. Uncorrupted, it does not seek delusion nor bewitchment and domination; it seeks shared enrichment, partners in making and delight, not slaves. (OFS)

Mithalwen

03-19-2007, 01:25 PM

davem

03-19-2007, 01:46 PM

Well it seems to have been done in the spirit of hommage ....as are the mockeries of Tolkien's world that I indulge in when I RPG ..... :rolleyes: And it is far superior to just about all tolkien-inspired "art"....

I'd say RPG's are still 'art' in the sense that Tolkien implies, because they remain 'imaginary' (part of a 'secondary world').

Of course, its a Folly. I still don't see the point of making the thing & it seems it exists because someone has more money than they know what to do with.....

Mithalwen

03-19-2007, 02:02 PM

davem

03-19-2007, 02:22 PM

The world would be a duller place without such things .... My grief for the tsars is controllable but I am not sorry that Faberge eggs exist, or cathedrals for that matter ...... My tastes are perhaps rather more baroque than this hobbit wendy house, but I would not live in a totally Benthamite world....

Well, Cathedrals I agree with. The 18th century wall at least wasn't tacky.... Actually I have a soft spot for some follies. Hoober Stand (http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/wfolly/2hs0-0.htm) & Stainborough Castle (http://www.wentworthcastle.org/view.asp?id=240) are lovely &, in the case of Hoober Stand, quite imposing, but I find this 'Hobbity' thing a bit of a white elephant.

Lalwendë

03-19-2007, 04:11 PM

Sorry I'll hold my hands up and admit to being an architecture snob. ;) I just do not like kitschy designs like that. I find it sad that in the States so many people don't recognise just how fabulous their vernacular achitecture is - the clapboard houses, brownstones, roadside diners, Miami Beach art deco, the longhouses stretching back from the street etc. One of the very best things about watching Hollywood films is to see those buildings. There's no need to go 'mock tudor' with all of that available.

And just one misplaced design can ruin a whole neighbourhood - I know that that bulding would look wholly out of place just about anywhere in the UK. It's nothing like 'the real thing' sadly - it's too 'fancy'.

Boo Radley

03-19-2007, 06:46 PM

A poorly designed house is not architecture... it is orc-itecture.

I'm sorry... I shall now return to my village in shame...

Bêthberry

03-19-2007, 07:19 PM

Child, I deeply respect your efforts to bring some kind of communal understanding to these very different responses to the Pennsylvania Hobbit Hole.

If I may make a few observations on the very different responses offered here, it is first to suggest--perhaps I should say remind, for those who remember the canonicity thread--that we all responsdto art, architecture, literature, out of our own personal histories and experiences. And that none of those experiences are invalid or wrong.

I find it very interesting that we have on this thread several Brits for whom the style and architecture of this library represents--if I may be allowed the option of interpretive paraphrase--a tawdry approximation, even imitation, of cottage styles which still exist in the Sceptred Isle (a place which I recall Squatter once referring to as the Sceptic Isle--that may be neither here nor there, but simply an example of the allusive nature of memory).

We also have some North Americans who understand that cottage as an imitation, as an imaginative attempt to depict something which may not exist on the North American continent.

Then we also have several other Europeans who immediately perceive the very salient class factors of the article, that the magazine is targeted at a certain market, that the architects and builders work for a particular socio-economic-cultural status in the US.

It appears we have here a prime example of an art which is full of contradictory aims and status. In other words, it is full of problematics--for those who savour such a theoretical tone.

There are several questions we can ask ourselves about this American hobbit hole.

First, how do the class and experience and intentions of the owner of the property and the architects and builders relate to Tolkien? Are they attempting to create something in their imagination that reflects their own personal imagination of Middle-earth or are they attempting to reproduce something Tolkien could have wanted?

Second, how does our experience of our world, our class and culture, reflect in our understanding of Tolkien?

Third, it is patently absurd to think that air conditioning (a critical feature for libraries of conservation, which this might be?) and heat radiant floors and electricity reflect the actual kinds of conditions of hobbit holes in the Third Age or earlier. So, how does one proceed? What possibilities were available to the architects as they met their clients?

Does one attempt an actual historical recreation, something which might closely ressemble a barrow for the dead, but intended for the living--which is how I sometimes think of hobbit holes--or something which uses the available technologies to recreate what we (based obviously in this case on pre-existing 20th C models of hobbit holes) think might be an imaginative recreation of the idea? Are architects restricted to historical veracity and simulacra or are they free to sub-create for themselves?

Pioneers to the Canadian prairies in the 19C dug dwellings out of hills and dirt to survive their first terrible experience of winter on the North American prairie. They did not have the luxury of stone pillars and roofs--as apparently existed in English barrows--but simply dug into the soil and set up small fireplaces with vents. This is much closer to what I think Tolkien might have thought of when he considered "in a hole live a hobbit." Yet even his Shire had varieties of social status. How to reflect that?

We are all of us allowed our chance to interpret and imagine a version of "in a hole lived a hobbit" in our 21st C world. Is it terribly wrong if that imagination does not suit or fit or satisfy the imagintion of those closer to Tolkien's own culture, class and society? Who is to say that imagination must be bound to Squatter's sceptic isle?

What I find infinitely fascinating about the article is that there apparently is a wealthy collector of Tolkien manuscripts who has decided to store his collection on his own private property rather than loan them to an academic institution, as is the general trend of such things these days in NA.

He--or she--isn't sharing.

Child of the 7th Age

03-19-2007, 11:34 PM

Fascinating stuff, Bêthberry. I heartily concur with your view that there are no invalid or wrong responses here. We're not talking about a life and death struggle or "good versus evil" but merely considering how people view the world through different prisms of belief and experience and the fact that these prisms invariably shape their response to artistic creations, whether we're discussing houses or poetry.

When I casually put up that link, I was thinking it might be pleasant to wile away a few hours inside the library of that house. I do find the place pleasant enough for that purpose. Yet my initial thoughts were really no deeper than that. I wasn't considering purchasing the property nor was I putting forward a carefully thought out statement of what my "ideal" hobbit hole would be. Still, the latter is worthy of consideration. I found one of the questions you raised especially intriguing in this regard:

Second, how does our experience of our world, our class and culture, reflect in our understanding of Tolkien?

While it's possible to consider this question in a much wider sense, I'll restrict myself to the vexing issue of hobbit holes that seems to have captured this particular thread.

My "ideal" hobbit hole would indeed reflect many personal elements of "class and culture". Let me explain. I first read LotR in the sixties when I was a student at university. My whole response to the book was very influenced by the fact that I saw myself as a counter culture person. (I certainly wasn't unique in that respect.) I was deeply involved in the ecology movement along with my friends; many of us were living in communes....wearing long peasant skirts, baking bread, and rejecting at least certain aspects of our upbringing. (Yeah, I was one of those crazy American kids whom Tolkien found good hearted but definitely misguided.) To this day, those views shape my image of middle-earth, at least on an emotional level.

For that reason, the hobbits I envision are invariably connected with the earth. A hobbit should have his feet planted in the soil, and his house should reflect that.....never mind that Tolkien said only a minority of hobbits lived in burrows by the latter part of the Third Age.

Given my working class roots, I think I would find even Bag-end a bit too uppity. The place has to be fairly small and cluttered if I'm going to feel safe and comfortable. Plus, I would probably throw in a pinch of left-leaning politics and political correctness. ;) Voila.....I get a burrow that looks something like this: house in Pembroke. (http://www.simondale.net/house/index.htm)

This particular family has built its hobbit home almost completely out of natural materials. The walls are made of stone and mud, water enters the house by gravity from a nearby spring and any non-natural things like windows and plumbing were picked up in rubbish piles. I'm not going to tell you I live like that in real life, but that is the way my heart would lean.

It's quite clear that my hobbits and hobbit holes are not identical with Tolkien's . I have little contact with farming or farmers, which is certainly part of what he put into his hobbits, probably a reflection of certain aspects of his childhood. And though I enjoy Tolkien's Edwardian overlay on the Shire, that is personally "foreign" to me.

So yes, you're right. What I bring to the story has an enormous impact on how I perceive the characters and even how I would build a hobbit hole, if I ever got around to constructing one.

Mithalwen

03-20-2007, 06:48 AM

Hmm this may be characteristically inconsistent but while I loathed the Bend houses and similarly mock tudor, mock georgian developments in the UK reproduction furniture etc - I love antiques but I also like good contemporary design - I can accept this little hobbit hole as a wendy house, whimsy, a modern folly. If I had the money and the land I'd build one of those wonderful treehouses but each to their own.. . this is indulging the fancy not a realistic proposition of a way to live... it is a private thing not a development for sale. It is more a fetish than a lifestyle choice...

If you wanted the latter and a hobbit spirit then there are some fantastic eco houses with modern interiors and grass rooves that might suit.. the Aussies have done this even for their parliament building..echoing hte miners "humpy" perhaps...

Lalwendë

03-20-2007, 07:59 AM

I'm not saying if you like it then you are wrong. I'm merely saying: "Bleurgh! I don't like it."

;)

Or if I must intellectualise my response, what I think is....the interior and exterior do not match. The exterior is far too fanciful and Disney-esque with the oversized chimney stack out of proportion with the building and the 'flipped edges' of the roof looking contrived. The 'extension' also appears contrived as it is finished in an identical fashion to the main part of the structure where it ought to be slightly different to get any authenticity. The stonework is laid like crazy paving giving a '1970s bungalow finish' to the exterior. The ceramic tiles used around the windows give yet another 'feel' - of Mexicana. The interior is much better finished, but the lofty roof gives the feel of being in a barn conversion, which is not in sympathy with the 'cosiness' implied by the exterior. The arched ante-room library is nicely done but as a whole the building is a bit messy, a confusion of 1970s designer style, modern gothic-ry and Disney twee.

But yeah. It's a bit sickly for me.

Estelyn Telcontar

03-20-2007, 08:39 AM

Childe Sharon, I enjoyed looking at the second burrow to which you linked! How interesting to read about the thoughts of the persons involved and see the very hobbitish structure. I find it very attractive on the one hand - on the other, I wouldn't want to actually live in a hole. Without straight-sided surfaces, where would I hang paintings and above all, my patchwork wall hangings?! There might be some who would see that as an advantage - quilters' families have been known to complain that they feel as if they're living in a padded cell, albeit a very cheerful one!

Both structures are variations on the theme of Arts and Crafts, and as such neither is very far from Tolkien's heart - and mine. And the straight-sided "boxes" in which most of us live can be made artistic in whichever way we prefer. That's sub-creativity!

At any rate, I'm very much enjoying the lively discussion to which we geezers have roused ourselves - more, please!

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2007, 09:55 AM

It is more a fetish than a lifestyle choice...

"Bleurgh! I don't like it."

It is indeed a good thing that I don't make my living as a realtor, since I would now be out on the streets begging for subsistence scraps. I will try to round up more hobbit holes late tonight on the net, and see if they meet with anyone's approval. ;)

Esty - It is intriguing to me to see how much time, effort, and money people put into this construction effort. How extraordinary that we work so hard to "get it right", when in a very real sense there really is no "right" since hobbits and burrows are a construct out of the author's head. And yet somehow we seem to think that there is a "real" hobbit hole floating somewhere out there in space and we judge things against our view of that Platonic (or Tolkienic) ideal.

Somehow I think this is connected with the strange sensation that some of us have that, when we read LotR, we are somehow "going home". Over the years, I've heard so many people express their feelings in those terms. So some of us seem to want to create a physical embodiment of that feeling.

Mithalwen --

A treehouse? Erg....I would truly feel uncomfortable no matter how lovely or artistic the structure would be.

Bêthberry

03-20-2007, 10:23 AM

Perhaps by "treehouse" Mithalwen means one of those lovely constructions in Lothlorien called a telain or flet? I've always had difficulty imagining them because I have to work hard to get Disney's Swiss Family Robinson's treehouse out of my mind.

Boo Radley

03-20-2007, 10:46 AM

Yeah.
For some reason I don't think the Elves had baby oliphant powered elevators. ;)

Estelyn Telcontar

03-20-2007, 10:58 AM

Oh dear, now I have Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" in my head - and that's not Tolkienish music at all!! :eek:

Boo Radley

03-20-2007, 11:01 AM

Oh dear, now I have Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" in my head - and that's not Tolkienish music at all!! :eek:

Thank you very much... now I have it in MY head, too! :D

Mithalwen

03-20-2007, 11:44 AM

Oh I would need something more substantial than Haldir's flet to stop me having a very Sam-like vertiginous feelings ... so not quite the Alnwick Castle type thing but certainly a house in a tree :D .....ideally I'd live in Rivendell of course but idyllic hidden valleys are rare in these parts :D

davem

03-20-2007, 12:57 PM

What I find infinitely fascinating about the article is that there apparently is a wealthy collector of Tolkien manuscripts who has decided to store his collection on his own private property rather than loan them to an academic institution, as is the general trend of such things these days in NA.

He--or she--isn't sharing.

I have a friend in the Tolkien Society who owns virtually everything Tolkien ever published (including the rare early stuff like Songs for the Philologists), along with some of the books from his library, though he isn't 'wealthy'. I think his intention is to donate them to the Tolkien Society library when he dies - though he may simply arrange for some to go to second hand bookshops - which is where he got many of the items himself.

Collecting such things isn't something I've gone in for, though its not difficult (or that expensive apparently) to get hold of stuff if you know where to look. I wonder what the 'manuscripts' actually consist of? As far as I'm aware CT owns all the M-e stuff apart from the stuff he sold to Marquette.

Some Tolkien 'artifacts' are not as valuable as people think though. As Ive noted elsewhere I saw a book once owned by Michael Tolkien on ebay for £300, whereas I picked up the six volume set of Gibbon Tolkien gave to Michael for £100 just last year & I know the dealer had quite a few other books of Michael's as he bought his entire library, so if anyone wants to own something with a (tenuous) Tolkien link it won't break the bank. And you can be a bit cunning - people reckon a 'First Edition' of LotR will break the bank but apparently the (pirated) Ace Books edition can be picked up quite cheaply if you just want the first ed. text.

It would be interesting to know whether the collection is worth the money spent on housing it....

Child of the 7th Age

03-20-2007, 02:01 PM

It would be interesting to know whether the collection is worth the money spent on housing it....

davem,

That's probably true, if you're judging the worth of a collection in terms of dollars. Some people who collect are in it for financial reasons, but for others the money really has little bearing. If someone is crazy enough to build an odd structure like this (whether you like the thing or not....it's definitely out of the ordinary), they must be doing this for reasons other than pure monetary worth. Frankly, a cottage of that type does not look very secure (unless it's part of a large gated estate with guards prowling at the entrance and along the walls). If the goal was to provide a secure environment to protect a valuable financial investment, that's probably not the setting a person would choose, even if they had boatloads of money at their disposal. Someone has to be a bit dotty...in love with the books themselves and what they represent....to build such a strange sanctuary for them.

I personally don't have any problems with a collector sitting on his books and keeping them in the private domain. Most books have multiple copies and it's generally true that a special collections somewhere does own a copy. Even with an extremely rare item like Philologists, there are at least a few other copies(13?) floating around. What does bother me is when someone sits on historical manuscripts....a source that is unique. I am surprised at how often Tolkien letters turn up on ebay. Every time I see one, I make a copy of the text. Most are nothing special, but there have been some, which throw light on some question or problem. I hate to see those things gobbled up dropping off the public map.

Bêthberry

03-20-2007, 04:01 PM

Yes, the value of a collection lies always in the eye of the collector first and then of course in those of any he can persuade to his obsession.

I had gathered from the article that the Tolkieniana under discussion was in fact manuscripts, which I had thought a little odd as I had assumed that all the important stuff with either with CT or at Marquette.

Asked to design a fitting repository for a client’s valuable collection of J.R.R. Tolkien manuscripts and artifacts, architect Peter Archer went to the source—the fantasy novels that describe the abodes of the diminutive Hobbits.

It could all be journalistic hyberbole, but I would hope it isn't artifacts such as the teeth and pipe Childe found earlier for sale on eBay (see her post near the top of this page). That could be a great ironic laugh, though--folly indeed.

I'm going to keep an eye out on youTube for a video of Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" put to some screen captures of orcs. :D

davem

03-20-2007, 05:04 PM

It could all be journalistic hyberbole, but I would hope it isn't artifacts such as the teeth and pipe Childe found earlier for sale on eBay (see her post near the top of this page). That could be a great ironic laugh, though--folly indeed.

Sorry, I know I shouldn't do this but over on the Plaza there's a thread about Tolkien's teeth. It started with a quote from Tolkien in an interview:

I"m afarid I really must go now...I have an appointment with my dentist. My mouth has shrunk, you see, so my false teeth no longer fit and are inclined to drop down unexpectedly, with a portcullis -like effect.'

& one of the posters added an anecdote:

But this bit about the portcullis finally confirms for me that my friend's older borother, who read English at Oxford, was probably telling the exact truth when he reported that on his first attendance at Tolkien's Beowulf lecture, when they were all so excited that this famous Prof was going to lecture to them, Tolkien began to read the poem but on the declamatory Hwaet! - his teeth fell out.

(Actually, I don't feel so bad about this as in an old thread over there someone linked to a post of Child's over here....)

Mithalwen

03-21-2007, 06:20 AM

In the Carpenter biography htere is something about him handing shopkeepers his false teeth when they put their hand out for money.... :D

Alphaelin

03-27-2007, 01:58 AM

Just thought I'd drop by and say "Hi".
Announcements and Obituaries???
Egad, how old are some of you, eh?

Not to worry, Boo! As far as I know, we're all on the near side of the grave ;)

I'd like to add my vote of approval for your handle! Excellent book...excellent movie...and Robert Duvall is one of my all-time favorite actors.

-Alphaelin (or Alph)

Alphaelin

03-27-2007, 02:28 AM

Pioneers to the Canadian prairies in the 19C dug dwellings out of hills and dirt to survive their first terrible experience of winter on the North American prairie.

Bêthberry , this sounds like the 'soddies' built in the plains states of the U.S., for the same reason -- dirt and sod were the most easily acquired building materials and they provided good protection not only against bitter cold winters but against the miserably hot summer sun in the plains. While they didn't have the sophistication of a solid brick-lined hobbit hole, any Shire Folk who had emigrated to the treeless prairies of North America would have had an easier time resorting to earthen shelters than some of the Big People.

Also, in Child's second hobbit hole link (the cottage in Wales), the second picture down -- showing the rafters in a round room -- reminded me somewhat of pictures I've seen of the ceilings of earthen lodges used by some Native Amercian tribes. An intriguing mental connection!

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

03-27-2007, 06:02 AM

As far as I know, we're all on the near side of the grave

If I'm not dead, why did they put me in a barrow? And why did my ear just fall off?

By the way, 'cold be hand and heart and bone' is right. I haven't had a fire for five years, and nobody thought to leave me any scotch. Even my chilblains are shivering.

You know, as I recall that article about false teeth (http://www.the-spine.com/archives/374) was a joke. Any fule kno that the TS keep Tolkien's pipe and teeth in a priceless reliquary decorated with quotations in Tengwar from the secret letters: the one that fits Tom Bombadil into the Silmarillion cosmology, and the other one from November 1968 that contains a drawing of Durin's bane.

Alphaelin

03-27-2007, 03:48 PM

If I'm not dead, why did they put me in a barrow? And why did my ear just fall off?

By the way, 'cold be hand and heart and bone' is right. I haven't had a fire for five years, and nobody thought to leave me any scotch. Even my chilblains are shivering.

Lol! Perhaps we've been drawn in by a wight hoping for amenities like a fire & a good glass of scotch? Lack of either would explain the mournful song Frodo heard in the barrow. No wonder the wights were always in such a foul mood. (Alas, JRRT never described any of the Free Peoples carrying a good single malt in their backpacks. Or even any tequila.)

Child of the 7th Age

06-12-2007, 03:15 AM

Bêthberry

06-12-2007, 03:24 AM

Great link, Child!

What a fascinating way to recreate Middle-earth. I guess gardening was not one of the arts which Tolkien encouraged in his letter about other hands taking up his Legendarium through "paint, music and drama" but it certainly is a form of "fanfiction" which is consistent with Tolkien's vision.

Interesting too the comment that the garden is immediately recognised by many.

Lalwendë

06-12-2007, 04:39 AM

I had to crank this thread up for this one: gardens in Warwickshire. (http://www.cv81pl.freeserve.co.uk/privategardens.htm)

Just scroll down to the one labelled Hobbiton. I wish we had a closer look, but what I'm seeing here is quite pleasant. And the idea of incorporating this as part of a children's hospice is so appropriate and needed.

Bet you didn't know one of the designers was erstwhile top pop princess of the early 80s Kim Wilde who did the seminal Kids In America (and her look is now being copied by millions of lasses in the UK - blonde spiky mullet, stripy t-shirt, skin tight jeans, pixie boots etc - I went as far as getting the retro stripy t-shirt but not the mullet, no way :D ).

However, I've got that fence and gate now too. See. (http://lalwendeboggart.livejournal.com/99786.html) Hand made by Mr Proudfoot AKA me Dad - who also displayed an unknown talent for the esoteric skill of drystonewalling. I am not having a giant Gandalf though as not only would the neighbours laugh but it would get robbed. But I do have a Gollum round the back - they sell 'em in Wath.

Samwise

06-30-2007, 07:46 PM

:eek: Nothing from the 'Downs for AGES, and now like 10 messages in a row....

Trippy....if you understand my meaning....;)

~Samwise, aka Mrs. G

Child of the 7th Age

06-30-2007, 08:01 PM

Samwise,

Good to see you. Check the dates on those pms. The Barrow-wight put in a new version of the website today. Some very "old" mail was inadvertently forwarded in the changeover. For example, I had an e-mail message that Bethberry had posted on a thread I had subscibed to. Her post was back in 2004. (Better late than never! :D)

If you come back to see this, are you still doing any collecting in the area?

Samwise

06-30-2007, 08:05 PM

Hullo, Miss Child...good to see you, too! They weren't PMs that I recieved, but rather posts to threads I was subscribed to. I see there are new things going on...

Well, I haven't been able to collect since I lost my job....been selling lots of stuff (not LOTR related) on ebay. Trying to sell some of my needlework on different auction sites, but haven't done much, so far...

Samwise

06-30-2007, 08:18 PM

Oh, THOSE PMs....:eek:Thank you--I've cleared out my inbox now. ;)

Nogrod

07-10-2007, 03:54 PM

You know you are getting old when food becomes a pleasure... like a garden to some. :)

But I can't not-share this with you.

The first chanterells are here!

I was going to my neighbourhood grocery when I spotted a woman selling fresh stuff outside the market, like sugar-peas, strawberries, cherries... and chanterells!

I bought some small fresh potatoes (those basically without any skin at all available only now as the season is on), some unsmoked bacon, shallot-onions and cream.

That was heavenly indeed! Just add salt and pepper...

Felt like summer!

In this world of advanced market-economy where you basically can have any ingredient all over the year this kind of things uplift one's mind... This surely can't be done in December!

Fordim Hedgethistle

07-11-2007, 11:05 AM

Summertime and the fresh produce! LOVE IT! I've been eating strawberries and cherries by the bushel, salad greens, green onions and early potatoes...but the best is yet to come...

APPLES! PEACHES! CORN ON THE COB! And the most glorious of all summer time treats: FRESH-PICKED TOMATOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Samwise

07-11-2007, 06:21 PM

Okay, I'm embarrassed, as I've taken the name of THE Gardener....:(

But what are chanterells? :confused:

Nogrod

07-11-2007, 06:34 PM

But what are chanterells? :confused:Chantarelles are mushrooms... bright yellow ones... (chantarellus cibarius). Quite common in the Northern hemisphere but not too common to be cheap in the market (the Italians buy all our mushrooms today and that rises the prizes).

I had to pay 6€ (7-8$) for a litre of them. Okay they were the first ones of the season and thence one can understand the special price on them but whatever... Not cheap.

But one can get a cheap pizza or iskender kebap from an ethnic restaurant (where workers are not paid properly) or a McDonald's meal with the price of them.

I think the choice is clear as a litre of them caters for two at least with cream and taters...

Not to discuss the taste. ;)

Alphaelin

07-13-2007, 02:00 AM

Nogrod wrote: Chantarelles are mushrooms... bright yellow ones... (chantarellus cibarius). Quite common in the Northern hemisphere but not too common to be cheap in the market (the Italians buy all our mushrooms today and that rises the prizes).

I had to pay 6€ (7-8$) for a litre of them. Okay they were the first ones of the season and thence one can understand the special price on them but whatever... Not cheap.

Perhaps the high price of mushrooms added to their allure to hobbits. This might be the reason behind Farmer Maggot's wrath at the young Frodo's depradations. :D

Child of the 7th Age

01-09-2008, 11:48 PM

I have faithfully listed all the "hobbit burrows" I've run into on this particular thread, so I feel compelled to list this commercial establishment, which is from New Zeeland:

http://www.woodlynpark.co.nz/ (click on the link to the left for hobbit motel)

http://forums.nightly.net/index.php?showtopic=51819

Ahem.... The cow in the background is kind of nice.

Someone please tell me that the large wood thing in the middle of the picture is not a hacked off tree.

Hilde Bracegirdle

01-10-2008, 06:44 PM

So sad. :( Must be the low income district or come from plans drawn up in Sharkey's day? The structure seems desparately lacking any warmth (or grace). Can't help but think that they are trying to cash in on the movie tourists.

And my mouth shall remain sealed regarding that, ehem, "sculpture" out front.

Samwise

01-10-2008, 08:10 PM

verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting....;)

Bêthberry

01-10-2008, 09:08 PM

Someone please tell me that the large wood thing in the middle of the picture is not a hacked off tree.

Child, that large wood thing in the middle of the picture is not a hacked off tree.

It is a stump.

Samwise

01-11-2008, 12:26 PM

>>Child, that large wood thing in the middle of the picture is not a hacked off tree.

It is a stump.

LOL, Bêthberry !!!!!!!

Child of the 7th Age

01-11-2008, 02:36 PM

Oh, Bêthberry. You gave me a good laugh.

That's the problem isn't it.... With the movies, I mean. Totally leaving aside their merits as films and/or book adaptations, which is being bludgeoned out on different threads on this site, they have had such an impact on our Middle-earth "culture". So many more readers, so many new books being published, a flood of collectibles, classes in the university, online games, works of art (of all shapes and descriptions), fanfics, rpgs, etc . The list could go on and on. So much good....and so much bad.

Hilde Bracegirdle

01-11-2008, 03:12 PM

I know what you mean, Child. I was looking for Tales from the Perilous Realm on the Barnes and Noble site, and since I have trouble remembering the exact title, I had to wade though upwards of 900 books, most of which were written about Tolkien, or his work, or the Inklings.... I found myself wondering if ALL these are really necessary.

On the other hand I did, see a copy of Samwise blank journal that I had way back when. I had totally forgetten about that.

Samwise

01-11-2008, 08:24 PM

On the other hand I did, see a copy of Samwise blank journal that I had way back when. I had totally forgetten about that

Pardon? :confused: Blank journal??:)

Hilde Bracegirdle

01-12-2008, 11:39 AM

Oh dear, I suppose I should have explained myself! Or else you might be liable to think I've been snooping around.;) I was refering to the book shown in the following link, but couldn't remember the proper name of it. But it looking it up again I see that it is called Hobbit's Travels by Sam Gamgee

It is indeed a blank journal. I had received a copy of it as a Christmas gift many, many years ago, but the yellow color and sketches inside kept me from using it.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780762413089&itm=4

Samwise

01-12-2008, 01:30 PM

No worries, Miss Hilde. I myself have two copies of this journal, one bought by me, and another given me by a friend (the very next day, no less, so said friend does not know I have two copies of it) :p. I know what you mean abou the nice artwork, for the most part....can't say as I care for the one near the front of me....er....Sam.....:D

mark12_30

01-12-2008, 09:04 PM

I have two copies of A Hobbit's Journal (Hardcover and paperback) and one copy of "A Walk THrough The Shire". Haven't written a single rune in any of them.

Child of the 7th Age

01-28-2008, 01:21 AM

I couldn't resist posting this link. It's an earlier incarnation of this thread, going back to 2002, and has some intriguing posts from folks, a number of them still active on the site and others who have journeyed on, describing how and when they became interested in Tolkien:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030925055349/forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=000840&p=1

It's possible to link into this same thread directly from the present site index: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4672
But somehow it seems more appropriate when framed by the older board.

.....

Estelyn Telcontar

01-28-2008, 01:20 PM

Oh my, we were all younger then than we are now! Thanks for the link, Child! Enjoyable reading...

One more thing - I clicked on the old fan fiction link and found our *old* site! Since there's occasionally someone who asks about the good old "Dude, Where's My Ring" story, and some may remember others, that's a great find!

Ibrîniðilpathânezel

02-02-2008, 10:50 AM

Being an older geezer who's new to this board, I've skimmed through the discussion here -- and it's nice to know that for once, I'm not the oldest one around! :D There've been a few boards I've belonged to where I was a good twenty years older than the next oldest person -- certainly makes one feel ancient and decripit. I prefer to think of it as well-seasoned and educated, but... ;)

I first read LotR in 1964 at age 11 and loved it immediately. I had tried reading the Hobbit for several years, but just couldn't (if I tell you that my favorite childhood authors were Ray Bradbury and James Thurber, this might explain why. I didn't read most classic children's books until I was long past being a child). I finally read the Hobbit when I was 26, when one of my older brothers (who was responsible for piquing my interest in LotR) gave me the leather-bound copies of both books as a Christmas present. Since then, I've read all the other books -- UT, HoME, you name it, except for the Children of Hurin. When one is trying to deal with clinical depression, that is definitely NOT the best story to be reading!

Anyway, the discussions of music that I saw through the thread also intrigued me. Along with many other creative pursuits, I've been a musician since I was about 8, and some of my earliest efforts at compositions were settings for songs from LotR. All my life, when I read Tolkien's work, I've heard music in my head, and for a long time, other friends and I tried to find works that we felt fit well with various parts of the story (for instance, "Mysterious Mountain" by Alan Hovhaness has always made me think "Rivendell"). Even after I heard other people's musical interpretations of the stories -- Shore, deMeij, David Arkenstone, etc. -- I kept thinking, no, that's not the music I heard. but I never did more than write tunes for some songs, even though I had studied orchestral composition as part of my musical training in college. Then about 6 years ago, I was given a program that allowed me to use my computer as my orchestra, and oh my, did that open the floodgates! Since then, I've written 7 symphonies and 4 suites that are part of the music that's been bottled up in my head all these years. I have some of the pieces posted on one of websites, here (http://www.mj-holmes.com/SymphonicWorks.htm). Some of them are missing because I had orginally needed to record them using rather mediocre MIDI instruments, and now have a much larger and vastly better library of sampled instruments at my disposal. The conversion is a long and tedious process (especially when one is hearing impaired and cannot resist the urge to rewrite parts of things), but in time, I hope to have all of them converted and posted for people to enjoy.

When Tolkien made the remark that he hoped to have created something that others would continue to explore with pen and brush and music... oh, how he has done that for me, since over the years, I've done all three! What a joy he has been for so many!

Estelyn Telcontar

02-02-2008, 02:11 PM

Welcome, Ibrîn! Pull up a rocker and make yourself comfortable! Here, there's a nice spot close to the warming fireplace. You've been very creative in various Middle-earth related areas - you mentioned elsewhere that you created Sim figures and surroundings (sorry, don't know the exact terminology, as I'm not Sim-experienced) for others to enjoy. I too am a musician; though I don't normally compose (I will decompose someday - sorry, Monty Python music reference), I didn't like any of the melodies I've heard for my favourite poem, the 'Walking Song', so I did write down a tune for that.

Hmmm, looking back I see that I never posted a picture of my Tolkien-themed patchwork here. I'll see if I get around to it some time soon...

Hilde Bracegirdle

02-02-2008, 06:29 PM

A warm welcome Ibrin! Nice to have you in our midst.

Rikae

02-02-2008, 08:24 PM

Ibrîniðilpathânezel

02-02-2008, 09:12 PM

Ibrin - I've been listening to your music, and it makes me wish I still had my old viola - I would love to hear these melodies played on a real instrument by a living musician! Very beautiful.

Thank you! Oh, if there is a dream in my heart, it would be to hear some of the things I've written played by a real orchestra. But if people think it's hard to get a break in the rock world, they should try it with classical music! *sigh*

Estelyn, you're right, I've made a variety of things (objects and skins and meshes and such) for the Sims based on Tolkien's work. And I've done my own illustrations, written some fanfic, written papers, designed costumes... it's been a tremendous source of inspiration for me for more than 40 years. And greetings to another musician! :)

Estelyn Telcontar

02-03-2008, 07:40 AM

Well, as a pianist I don't play a Middle-earth compatible instrument - though it does come in handy when playing through the Swann/Tolkien songs in The Road Goes Ever On.

Ibrîniðilpathânezel

02-03-2008, 03:24 PM

Y'know, that's one of the things I always found odd about the mention of organs in the Ainulindale. It's the only keyboard instrument I can recall being mentioned anywhere in Tolkien's work, and it seems quite strangely anachronistic. Myself, I began with organ and piano, then voice, guitar, harp, flute... oh, a lot of instruments. It was encouraged for anyone going into conducting or composition. Most I have only dabbled with, the understand how they are played and how they make their individual sounds, but I've managed proficiency with a fair number. A while back, someone asked me why I never used saxophone in my Tolkien-inspired orchestral works, and I couldn't quite get them to understand that I found it much too "modern" sounding to fit what I heard in my head. Wasn't even invented until the mid-1800s, if I recall correctly, so no matter what, I just couldn't hear a sax being played in, say, Rivendell, or Gondolin, or Valinor. Maybe someone might be wailing on a sax in Mordor... :D

mark12_30

02-03-2008, 05:25 PM

Esty, sounds like a link to your paper-development thread would be a good idea. Hint.

Nogrod

02-04-2008, 02:02 AM

I do agree with Rikae and yourself that being able to listen to your compositions played with real instruments would be great. That MIDI-sound is just plain awful at worst and being just a lot less than the real thing at best (the harp wasn't so bad).

The pics you had there reminded me of the old Deutsche Grammophone records... especially those with the yellow lines around the picture. :)

This is surely a matter of taste and I listened to only a small sample of your works - and this might even be a matter of principle to you - but I'll say it still. Don't be afraid of dissonance! Try it and you'll like it! :D

Think of some of the great modern composers like Pärt or Rautavaara who make the most astonishingly beautiful music where the beauty is enhanced or heightened to a new level with a creative use of dissonance.

But hats off to you. I really liked what I heard.

Ibrîniðilpathânezel

02-04-2008, 09:18 AM

Actually, the "instruments" are all wav samples of actual instruments, and I am not terribly pleased with some, because whoever did the recording had a different notion of what constituted a good basic sound. With certain very expensive programs, studio equipment, and a lot of patience, I could potentially make them sound better, but I'm primarily a composer, not a studio tech. Spending weeks tweaking the sound of one or two particular instruments for a piece when I have ideas wanting to be expressed and put down isn't currently worth that kind of effort. What I need to do is hook up with someone who does enjoy that kind of work, has the equipment, and collaborate. Perhaps someday. (And perhaps someday, I'll find a willing orchestra, too. :rolleyes: ) But I do have to say, imperfect though what I have available may sound when compared to a live orchestra, it's immensely better than what I had available when I first started writing these pieces. I just recently started working with yet a new set of instrument samples, which is much more extensive and varied than anything I've had before, but so far, I haven't had a chance to rescore any of my symphonic works using them. So much to do, so much time required, and so little time. *sigh*

And you're right about taste, Nogrod. As a musician, I have certainly been exposed to just about every kind of music there is, and naturally not all have been my cup of tea, but when I sit down to compose, I must be true to my own artistic vision, however much or little others might like it. Art is an expression of self, and this is a part of what I am. My own tastes tend to run toward the Impressionist and Romantic periods, and I'm sure that's reflected in my music. I'm not afraid of dissonance; I have written some quite dissonant pieces in the past, but since I write what I hear in my head, dissonance just wasn't what I heard, here, nor what felt was right for what I was attempting to achieve. I have a feeling that if I was ever to sit down and compose something about the Children of Hurin, I would find a lot of dissonance creeping in... :)

But in the end, as in all things, to each their own, and to thine own self be true.

Snowdog

02-27-2008, 08:08 PM

Good Day everyone!

Its been ages since I've been by here. Good to see some old names as well as some new ones!

News here is life has changed drasticly over the last few years. Shortly after the time I helped start the 'Lingering Darkness' RP, I had to basicly retire from it due to a deteriorating domestic situation. Since then, the kids are grown, with my youngest graduating from high school this June, and I've seperated, tried reconciling, then gotten divorced. Now I'm together with an old friend who used to post here as Elora. This year I've moved from the Pacific Northwest to Brisbane, Australia and am currently jumping through immigration hoops. Everything is looking good, and life is good! I have a lot of back-reading to do I guess , but maybe everyone could post a summary of how they're doing?

Cheers Barrow Folk!

Estelyn Telcontar

02-28-2008, 03:32 AM

Hi there, Snowdog! Good to hear from you again. I do hope you'll be able to adjust well to your new situation - never too late to teach an old (Snow)dog new tricks, eh?! ;) Please do say "hi" to Elora.

I'm still around and active; we're doing a re-run of the Chapter-by-Chapter (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/forumdisplay.php?f=41) LotR discussions, so you might enjoy joining us there. There's also a discussion of the BBC dramatization (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14646) going on, with Brian Sibley visiting to tell us about his experiences producing it.

In real life Tolkien community goings-on, I'm preparing a lecture on the musical instruments of Middle-earth for the German Tolkien Society's seminar in April - a fascinating topic, though there is very little research material on it.

As to private interests, well, I'm practicing piano for a concert in November and have begun sewing a new quilt wall hanging. No need for me to "get a life" - I think I have several of them, but unfortunately I didn't get multiple allocations of the 24 hours each of them needs...

mark12_30

12-23-2008, 08:46 AM

So Esty, how did the piano concert go?

Any other greybeards out there?

I'm pondering doing the forest-themed interior decorating I always wanted to do. If I can't actually have a flet I want to pretend I'm in (or on) one by all the leaves and branches surrounding me.

Snowdog, I and my ranger-husband and our two hobbits are doing quite well. My sister Raefindel is around, and planning to come east (WOOT WOOT!!!) and she and I will spend some girl-time. Er, elf-lady time. I do think of myself as a hobbit, but with such fallohidish blood I fool myself sometimes into thinking I'm a short elf. If that sounds a bit confused, my husband would agree with you...

--mark12_30 (Helen)

Estelyn Telcontar

12-23-2008, 11:39 AM

Dear me, what a nap we have had in here! :eek: So much has happened in the meantime.

My concert went well, Helen - thanks for asking! The lecture on music in Middle-earth has turned into a book project which I will be co-editing in the coming year. And I will be moving my rocking chair and all other belongings to a new location, so it will be awhile before I have time to sit down and relax again - though I plan to do so during the holidays, at least occasionally.

How are all of you spending the holidays? Gathering your family 'round the hearth?

Raefindel

12-23-2008, 04:04 PM

Hello, my friends!

We had planned for family at my home for the Holiday but I'm afraid the weather may play a hand in previnting it.

It is as bad here as the Fell Winter of 2911! Indeed, I fear that since the creek has frozen, White Wolves may come across! I have my bow handy, just in case!

Samwise

12-23-2008, 04:06 PM

Hullo, Miss Rae and all ! Hope you all are well !

Raefindel

12-23-2008, 05:24 PM

Hail and wellmet, Samwise!

How are you? What are you up to?

I've set aside my trowel and exchanged my garden gloves for warmer gloves for the season.

We are experiencing what they are calling a "Historic Storm". I've had up to 18' of snow this week and was just out shoveling my way to the mailbox ,rather pointlessly, as the mailcarrier hasn't come in days.

Samwise

12-23-2008, 05:35 PM

Mae Govannen, Miss Rae ! Well, I am jobless at the moment, lost one job then got another and quit it to get a job with more hours, then lost THAT job. Sigh. Just finished a Psychology 1A class (and got an A !! Whoo HOO!) Will be taking more classes in January. Selling things on Ebay, and trying to get back into my counted cross stitch. Also enjoying a second nephew. My nephew Chris is 3 (August 23) and Niko just turned 1 (October 23). My mother and I watch Niko 1 and 1/2 days a week. He is into EVERYTHING !!! Positively keeps this old Hobbit running ! ;)

Raefindel

12-23-2008, 08:15 PM

Yes, you sent me Pics of the nephews. That's GREAT! Very handsome boys.

Sorry to hear about the job. I started working last year; was a stay-at-home mom for 14 years before that.

mark12_30

12-23-2008, 08:59 PM

VIsited the hospital today. Friend of mine named Todd just had a stroke. He needs his speech & also his right side to start working again. He has a wife and two boys: 1 high school, 1 college. Great guy. Since I see a couple of prayer warriors: he could use prayer.

I'm singing "What Child is This" solo tomorrow night. I was supposed to sing Jesu Bambino but I changed it at the last minute... the other one just wasn't sitting right.

Sam, congrats on your A in psych class!

How hard is it to sell things on ebay...?

Samwise

12-23-2008, 09:03 PM

Hullo, there. Sorry to hear about your friend. Will certainly pray.;) It's not too hard to sell on ebay. I've been doing it for several years. You win money sometimes and you lose some sometimes:p....those folks who say they "Make millions on ebay!" are far and few between if they exist at all...:rolleyes:

Raefindel

12-23-2008, 09:04 PM

Of Course We'll pray!

Best wishes on the solo!

Samwise

12-23-2008, 09:05 PM

Yes, I'm sure you'll do well. I used to enjoy singing solos in church.:o

mark12_30

12-23-2008, 09:16 PM

Thanks! What are your holiday plans? We're going to head for the midwest..

Raefindel

12-24-2008, 09:17 AM

Despite the fact that everyone has cancelled plans to come, I can say that we are all well and happy and will have a Merry Christmas anyway.

I feel sorry for my sister; she's snowed-in, alone in her tiny cabin, probablly crying.

Have a safe drive, Hellen.

Merry Christmas everyone!

mark12_30

01-10-2009, 02:03 PM

...and a happy New Year.

I am waxing nostalgic for some of the good old threads with the good old downers, and am tempted to go digging into aome archives. SO I thought I'd toss this one out:

For fun reading, here on the downs, what are your favorite old threads?

mark12_30

04-16-2009, 06:59 PM

Bêthberry

04-16-2009, 07:39 PM

I am waxing nostalgic for some of the good old threads with the good old downers... For fun reading, here on the downs, what are your favorite old threads?

*cough* nobody has ANY?

Well, I like the lembas threads and the seasonal threads and... and... where's my rocker? Who took my rocker???

I guess I'll have some sleepytime tea, and discuss this with my pillow.

Gosh, I must have missed this while sipping on my Christmas punch or egg nog. (It definitely wasn't that mediocre tonic for iron poor blood that the doctors keep pushing on us old geezers.)

One of my favourite oldies was a goodie brought to us by She of The Blessed Long Name Easily Foreshortened Hobbit Sex Ed (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5175)

*rocks a lil faster on her rocker thinking of the old time shenanigans and then gits up and offers a go-round to mark*

Rumil

04-16-2009, 08:05 PM

Agree Bethberry,

Maril's thread was inspired, beautifully written and achingly LOL-inducing!

A few that I often think of

The light in Frodo's face (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1318&highlight=light+frodo)

Coffee! (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1888)

Linguistic Puns, Riddles and Jokes in LoTR etc. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=40)

Of course the Epic Chapter by Chapter

also 'It feels different near the Shire' (my search-fu is weak)

For sheer 'awwwww' value Lalwende and Davem announce their engagement (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11744)

And for the terrible guilty pleasure of looking at my favourite own post (off-colour though it be) Waste systems in Middle Earth (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13166)

Raefindel

04-16-2009, 08:47 PM

Estelyn Telcontar

04-16-2009, 11:10 PM

Sorry for the lack of response - my rocker has changed its location since my last post. It's also pushed up to a computer screen, where I am finding out that producing a book is definitely more time-consuming than reading one!

Nonetheless, two of my favourite threads occur to me; here they are for your reading enjoyment:

If LotR had been written by someone else? (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1265)
The One Ring? (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1997)

mark12_30

04-17-2009, 04:47 AM

Locating the thread for Rumil: Littlemanpoet started it. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/member.php?u=284)

'It feels different near the Shire' http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5990

mark12_30

04-17-2009, 04:59 AM

Oh Boy, these are going to take me a while to read, I'm mean re-read.

Helen, don't you remember? We busted up your rocker and made walking sticks for our hike last summer and mine we made into a fire and roasted marshmallows over it. Well, OK, we tried, it was raining and we huddled in the Park Ranger's tent and ate our meager lunches.

No Rocker?!? No Rocker?!?

*looks about for somebody sleeping in their rocker, so she can dump them onto the floor and sit down, but everyone is now suspiciously awake*

Maybe I'll just knock somebody out with my walking stick.

Raefindel

04-17-2009, 08:40 AM

No Worries, I"ve had new ones made and they're waiting in my yard, facing the creek, of course.

The kettle is on and the Elf is lonely for her friend.

mark12_30

04-19-2009, 06:27 PM

"Frodo's Sacrifice"

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5907

Mithadan

04-19-2009, 07:30 PM

The Bridge at Khazad-Dum was always one of my favorites.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1690

Mister Underhill

04-20-2009, 04:18 AM

Blast from the past with that Bridge thread, Mith -- that was a fun one!

Besides the ones mentioned, I'll add:

This post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=137762&postcount=78) by Marileangorifurnimalium in Find your best location in Middle-earth (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4728). Most of the rest of the thread is talk about one of BW's site gadgets, but this post by Maril is a side-splitter. How I miss her! She was a treasure and no mistake.

Burglary, Pockets, and the Hobbit (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1873) is a short but fun sample of that old time dry Downs humor.

And how could I neglect Squatter's legendary Curious evening in Oxford (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4544)? I can't! It's remarkable not only for the Squatter's nocturnal adventure in the boneyard, but also for the birth of Travest-o-technology®.

mark12_30

04-28-2009, 08:34 PM

"LOTR and your Weltanschaung." (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=15124)

Snowdog

03-04-2010, 04:40 PM

Its been 2 years since I last posted here, and nearly a year since anybody posted here. Thought I'd raise the dead by saying 'g'Day!

Raefindel

03-04-2010, 06:19 PM

g'day
Snowdog! How have you been? What have you been up to?

Snowdog

03-04-2010, 10:10 PM

Hey Rae! Been working, trying to figure out life's next move, and the biggie, residency, is done! Having a cuppa at afternoon break-time right now.

How's Washington state??? Folks tell me they are having an early spring this year, compared to a late spring last year.

Raefindel

03-04-2010, 10:36 PM

WooHoo! Congratulations on the residency!

Yes, we basically had no winter. It's been 50-60 degrees.

Life's been changing for me. My oldest is out of school and working for the county. Makes more than I do. Two more to go, have two girls in Jr High.

My Mother-in-law, who was once the bane of my existence, is mellowing as she looses her faculties and we are adding on to the house to accommodate her.

But the best part is we're building me a craft room. I'm attempting to make it as Elven as I can.

Snowdog

03-10-2010, 08:49 PM

OOoohhhh an Elven craft room? Complete with forge to make rings??? :smokin:

Raefindel

03-10-2010, 10:00 PM

Yes! Exactly! The walls are green of course and I'm thinking of painting a cool tree on one.

Actually I was trying to think of a Tolkien quote to paint on the walls. Of course, above the entry it will have to say "Speak friend, and Enter". I've been thumbing through the books trying to think of something appropriate. Any thought would be appreciated.

Estelyn Telcontar

03-11-2010, 04:21 AM

Rae, the one quote that I love best when it comes to crafts is "We put the thought of all that we love into all that we make." (spoken by an Elf in "Farewell to Lórien")

Raefindel

03-11-2010, 08:54 AM

Oh, I love that!

How have you been, Estelyn?

Estelyn Telcontar

03-11-2010, 03:09 PM

I'm doing very well, Rae - thanks! The book Music in Middle-earth, to which I contributed a chapter as well as co-editing it and translating several of the essays, is now on the market. That leaves me with more time for other creative activities, mostly piano playing and quilt sewing - and for reading just for fun.

What will you be doing in your craft room?

Raefindel

03-11-2010, 04:22 PM

I'm a stamper (I make greeting cards) as well as theater props and backdrops.

I have a big Bible-time backdrop to get done and nowhere to work till my new shop is done.

Hilde Bracegirdle

03-14-2010, 11:44 AM

I remember being impressed with your greeting cards, Rae. I think I saw one or two here, some time back.

And I join you on the set brigade. Just worked on a huge truck yesterday doing the detail work, and am sore for it today. Nothing like that kind of work out for your peace of mind though! Does make you wanted to create a new environment for yourself by painting the walls at home. Have fun decorating your room!

Raefindel

03-14-2010, 05:19 PM

Thank You, Hilde! I've got another week before I can start moving in and doing detail work.

I had no Idea you were a set designer, too. Cool!

Hilde Bracegirdle

03-14-2010, 06:31 PM

No, not the designer but a helping hand... or brush, if you will. Great fun really, there were 3 of us artist's there at the time.

mark12_30

03-22-2010, 10:05 AM

I have a new rocker. Well, not really new. It's old. But it's out under my beech trees.

So I can watch the leaves unfold.

:)

Raefindel

04-26-2010, 05:26 PM

How does the Beech tree look now?

Snowdog

08-27-2010, 03:13 AM

And so Summer in Seattle is much like Winter in Brisbane it seems.

How is everyone here in the TCA2 club?:)

mark12_30

08-27-2010, 06:16 AM

Greetings, Snowdog! All is well... good to see you about.

Estelyn Telcontar

08-27-2010, 02:01 PM

Alive and preparing for real life Tolkien activities coming up next month. How my existence has been influenced by not only the books, but also the interaction here that has spilled over into my life!

Raefindel

08-27-2010, 05:47 PM

Are you from the Northwest, too, Snowdog? My kids are all threatening to move to Phoenix.

Things are normal around here (other than the weather). My garden seems to finished for the year, school starts in a few weeks and my long summer break will be over.

Helen, those day lilies you sent me are beautiful and bloomed for weeks.

Snowdog

08-28-2010, 04:26 AM

I spent July & part of August in the Seattle area visiting the folks and kids and grandkids. I've been in Brisbane for a few years now. Summer didn't seem so hot to me even when it was into the 90's! Of course on the other side, I feel cold now if the temp gets less than 50...

Hey Mark Bible Verse, howyagoin'? Was thinking of crashing one of the RP inns, but I never really know whats 'allowed' here on Barrow Downs as far as RP goes. I remember it being rather confusing and strict.

Hi Estelyn! I take it you're going to Oxford? Would like to go sometime myself.

mark12_30

08-28-2010, 04:53 AM

Thinking of crashing an inn? Come on down. Here's enough rules to get you started:

Inns are for socializing, trying out characters, and informal stuff; but you MUST stay in character (Tolkien-related character.)

Role Playing games are more than "games". They are collaborative novels under development; they take planning and coordination and commitment. Each RPG has a game "owner" who defines the broad scope. Games are by invitation only.

So- feel free to crash an inn. Stay in character; keep it Tolkien; connect it to earlier posts if you can.

The seventh Star lies dormant so long, it echoes in there and the dust lies thick!

Snowdog

08-28-2010, 11:15 PM

Yeah, i remember some of the rules. One reason I pulled out of The Lingering Darkness in the Shire about 6-7 years ago was the whole time limit rule. Then the thread went on for years anyway! I guess the term 'games' rubs me wrong. I call these RPs, as writers or collaborating to make a tale. Anyway... one of my characters from other RPs and tales I've written may stop in for a beer... :smokin:

mark12_30

01-20-2011, 11:44 AM

... I miss the old Downs.

Watched Fellowsihp on Monday afternoon... and found myself identifying very closely with an Arwenish part of the movie that is decidedly non-canonical. Egads! Then I was reminded of my decision to treat them as two separate-- but somewhat similar-- myths.

(Down thru the years that decision has been very useful.)

Anyone else have a similar or contrasting tale?

Hilde Bracegirdle

01-20-2011, 05:59 PM

I'm missing the old Downs as well....

And I don't know when the last time I watched the movies.

Nogrod

01-20-2011, 07:04 PM

I was enchanted by the visual imagery of the movies when they appeared, and the music worked as well, creating an athmosphere worth experiencing. But already then I was quite critical with the choices the directing team made - and the casting of some central characters etc.

Now I see that te latter were true judgements. I don't feel like going back to those dvd's because as movies they're just the average lousy drama of 21st century. Beautiful at times, touching because of the music at others; but as movies, as drama, as touching characters go... quite insignificant.

On another note from the last fall, I do agree with you that in the old 'Downs the Inn's were places where people crashed into and then stayed to either wander into other RPG's or just to stick there - or then just vanished as soon as they entered if it was not for them.

I have't been following the Golden Perch lately (which I think is this "first level Inn" to pop into to get the hang of it), but I have noted the "traffic" is like one tenth of the times gone by - like when I entered the Green Dragon...

The Scarburg Mead Hall, which should be the "next level" inn is going forwards in bursts, but it seems that mainly the same people attend to it. We had this change of eorlship there and managed to get new writers into there, but it feels at times like an RPG that those not already involved with it just don't dare to enter. Which is sad.

Also, when has there been a new RPG starting the last time? When I joined the 'Downs there were many going on. Or when has an RPG ended as planned? It might even be that the first game I played in (The "Outracing the Flames" by Arry on 2006) was the last game that actually finished as planned...?

Nogrod

01-20-2011, 07:12 PM

I guess the term 'games' rubs me wrong. I call these RPs, as writers or collaborating to make a tale.Great to find a fellow-soul! I've been bothered and kind of annoyed about this "game" thing as well. I mean games are a kind of things, like werewolf, or all that Quizz-room stuff. But writing a story together is not a game in the same sense.

Anyway... one of my characters from other RPs and tales I've written may stop in for a beer...
Would one of your characters like to take that beer in the Scarburg Mead Hall?

Rune Son of Bjarne

01-20-2011, 08:50 PM

Great to find a fellow-soul! I've been bothered and kind of annoyed about this "game" thing as well. I mean games are a kind of things, like werewolf, or all that Quizz-room stuff. But writing a story together is not a game in the same sense.

It might not be a game in the same sense that "monopoly" is a game, but don't glorify it. It is not like you are creating an epic tale or a grand narrative, you are having a laugh and that is basically it. . .

At best it is the level above fan-fiction.

mark12_30

01-21-2011, 09:16 AM

It might not be a game in the same sense that "monopoly" is a game, but don't glorify it. It is not like you are creating an epic tale or a grand narrative, you are having a laugh and that is basically it. . .

At best it is the level above fan-fiction.

Hmm. There are games (some of which I've played in) which occasionally transcended the above "having a laugh" and approached "epic tale" or "grand narrative". At least, I think so. Most haven't; but a few have.

Bêthberry

01-21-2011, 04:16 PM

Hmm. There are games (some of which I've played in) which occasionally transcended the above "having a laugh" and approached "epic tale" or "grand narrative". At least, I think so. Most haven't; but a few have.

I really enjoyed RPGing with Gandalf the Grey. With Gandalf's games, the focus was on the story itself rather than on the competition between the players and they were serious about maintaining a Middle-earth flavour without taking themselves too seriously.

I enjoyed playing in The Barrow Wight's "My Crow Management" too, and my occasional contributions to the REB trilogy. Planning the REB posts in chat was probably more fun than writing the posts.

I think the real trick is to discover a group of people you know well and you enjoy writing with because then you develope an intuitive sense of what they will pick on (or ignore) and you can play with that.

EDIT: I really like what Noggie and b]LMP]/b] have done with the Scarburg Mead Hall. I think it's absolutely fantastic to see non-native speakers of English writing here with such style and ability.

Snowdog

02-10-2011, 05:24 AM

I agree Nogrod about the movies, and about RP collaborative writing. A few weeks back, My wife (Elora) & I decided to watch the extended DVDs. They were for the most part yawners with some chuckles here and there. it took us a month to watch through all three of them. It was fun back in 2001-2003, but they are rather ordinary these days. Still, they will always have a place with us, for had it not been for the movies, we likely would have never met.

Mark, I may still crash the inn. I'll make an entrance with one of my characters and see how it goes. (Edit: Maybe not. From what I'm interpreting, I need a character bio to post there. Too much hassle.) As for writing RP here on the Downs, it was made rather clear to me that my style of writing has no place on Barrow Downs. I obviously broke some rule by posting in a thread in Gondor, and I wondered when I first posted there if I was tresspassing. A couple, maybe one, big attitudes that came down proved my perception to be correct. Anyway, no worries here. It is what it is. There are other places where the style is accepted, and thats cool.

I'm wrapping up the lst book of the Black Company (Soldiers Live) and am thinking of giving Lord of the Rings another read. Its been about 7 years. :)