The Three Elven Rings

[luthien-elvenprincess]

I think that any ring made after the crafting of the One Ring would still be under the dominion of the One Ring. Sauron had a rightful claim on all the elven-rings because his craft-lore was used in their making.

But (Sauron), finding that he was betrayed and that the Elves were not deceived, was filled with wrath; and he came against them with open war, demanding that all the rings should be delivered to him, since the Elven-smiths could not have attained to their making without his lore and counsel

I can't find any 'defense' against Sauron for their full ownership of the rings except for hiding them and not openly using them when Sauron held the One Ring. Apparently, the elves understood the concept of copyright laws and patents. So as long as Sauron existed, any ring made would fall under his dominion.

Now, any rings made after Sauron's destruction...I don't think that any of the elves left in ME held the knowledge of ring-making. An interesting thought!

[Neithan]

Now the Elves made many rings; but secretly Sauron made One Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last.--The Sil

When Sauron created the One Ring, its power became tied together with the rings it controlled, regardless of who created them.

Moot point, because no one else made any, I know, but an interesting thought nonetheless.

Actually I think Saruman made a ring of his own.

He wore a ring on his finger ... Saruman, the wise, Saruman Ring-maker ...--FotR

So the question is, was Saruman's ring under the power of the One? I don't think so, I think that Sauron bound all the rings to his when he created it rather than giving the Ring the power to bind all rings made by the methods that he taught the Elves.

[Boromir88]

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

Wrong Boromir. Saruman's Ring enabled him to breed an enhanced version of orcs - the Urukhai.

The thing is, Sauron forged the One Ring after the Three were forged. And after the Nine and the Seven, for that matter. He had already ideas for domination through instructing the Elves in this craft and his plans came to fulfilment when he made the One Ring in Orodruin.

Did he really forge the One after knowing the existance of the Three? I doubt it. Didn't Celebrimbor forge the Three in secret, & Sauron even left before they could be completed.

What I'm wondering, though, is what would happen if the Elves made another Three after Sauron's complete destruction. Would they be able to regain what was lost when the Three lost their power? They probably wouldn't have done that, though, even if they thought of it, and even if any Elf still lived that knew how, afraid that another Sauron would come along and just make another One.

I don't think that the Elves would be capable of making another Three (even if Celebrimbor had been alive). These things are like the Silmarills. You can only make them once, but you can never make their like again, just like how Feanor feels about his Silmarills. It would be nice though if it were possible for the Elves. Such a sad fate for them.

[Boromir88]

Wrong Boromir. Saruman's Ring enabled him to breed an enhanced version of orcs - the Urukhai.

Could you please show me the text behind this, if you don't mind.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

It's been a while since I've read the books so I wouldn't be able to find it but I'm pretty sure it exist. I wouldn't make it up. Saruman has long studied the lore of the ring-making of Sauron. He was also envious of Gandalf for instead of him, Gandalf was entrusted the guardianship of Narya, the ring of fire. Saruman is also a maia of Aule, so this wouldn't come as a surprise to me. With his own version of a home-made ring, he was able to muster an army of Urukhai, orcs who can travel at great speed & are not hindered by day light, not like your ordinary morgoth orcs. But then again, I cannot supply with a quote so you believe it or not, though I highly doubt Saurman's ring is nothing more than an ornament.

[Boromir88]

I think you are just basing this off pure speculation.

Saruman has long studied the lore of the ring-making of Sauron.

Just because he studied it for many years doesn't mean he totally figured it out.

With his own version of a home-made ring, he was able to muster an army of Urukhai, orcs who can travel at great speed & are not hindered by day light, not like your ordinary morgoth orcs. But then again, I cannot supply with a quote so you believe it or not, though I highly doubt Saurman's ring is nothing more than an ornament.

It's not even known whether Saruman mixed orcs and men to get the uruk-hai, it's assumed and probably the likely choice, but it's not certain. So, I doubt whether there's any mention of Saruman's ring inabling him to create the race. Also, with the ornament comment, Saruman was from Aule, like Sauron, both naturally being greedy.

[narfforc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

I have always seen this as Saruman's attempt to copy Sauron. I also think that it was one of Tolkien's 'Lost Tracks' which he left in as an oversight. He may well have had reason to mention this ring, but then continued down another route. Why does Tolkien mention it?, many people wear rings, why would Saruman's ring be of any import. When Gandalf expels Saruman from the Order his power has been deemed to have been broken, yet Gandalf warns them later on that he still has the power of his voice, if anything maybe the ring enhanced that and the power of that ring hadn't yet been broken (this is of course mere speculation on my part).

[Findegil]

If I remember corretctly, you will find in the history of the wirtting of the Lord of the Rings, that Tolkien had Saruman at first find one of the Rings dedicated to the dwarves. This was later changed when the number of the Rings became more fixed and 7 Dwarven Rings were partily recovered by Sauron and partily destroyed be dragon fire.

That means, the improtance of mentioning the Ring at Sarumans hand first lay in the fact that there was at that time of writing no full account of all the Rings of Power. So one Ring less, one chance less that the one Ring in the hand of the hobbit is not the one.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Juicy-Sweet]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

Gandalf mentions somewhere that there are "many" magical rings

+ when he at first learns of Bilbo's ring he just thinks "o well a ring of invisibility" and doesnt think of the seven or the nine or the great rings at all.

I always took together as meaning that the elves made lots of different magical rings, hundreds or thousand, and that these "minor" rings had all sorts of different magical powers, so one shouldnt be surprises if one came upon an invisibility ring.

Saruman's ring might have been one if these - and what power it gave, we have no idea. It wouldnt be a lot though, not enough to create an army of uruk-hai.

Even for Gandalf, I have no idea where to draw the limits between his own power and the power conferred to him by his ring.