The Three Elven Rings

[Boromir88]

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

Wrong Boromir. Saruman's Ring enabled him to breed an enhanced version of orcs - the Urukhai.

The thing is, Sauron forged the One Ring after the Three were forged. And after the Nine and the Seven, for that matter. He had already ideas for domination through instructing the Elves in this craft and his plans came to fulfilment when he made the One Ring in Orodruin.

Did he really forge the One after knowing the existance of the Three? I doubt it. Didn't Celebrimbor forge the Three in secret, & Sauron even left before they could be completed.

What I'm wondering, though, is what would happen if the Elves made another Three after Sauron's complete destruction. Would they be able to regain what was lost when the Three lost their power? They probably wouldn't have done that, though, even if they thought of it, and even if any Elf still lived that knew how, afraid that another Sauron would come along and just make another One.

I don't think that the Elves would be capable of making another Three (even if Celebrimbor had been alive). These things are like the Silmarills. You can only make them once, but you can never make their like again, just like how Feanor feels about his Silmarills. It would be nice though if it were possible for the Elves. Such a sad fate for them.

[Boromir88]

Wrong Boromir. Saruman's Ring enabled him to breed an enhanced version of orcs - the Urukhai.

Could you please show me the text behind this, if you don't mind.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

It's been a while since I've read the books so I wouldn't be able to find it but I'm pretty sure it exist. I wouldn't make it up. Saruman has long studied the lore of the ring-making of Sauron. He was also envious of Gandalf for instead of him, Gandalf was entrusted the guardianship of Narya, the ring of fire. Saruman is also a maia of Aule, so this wouldn't come as a surprise to me. With his own version of a home-made ring, he was able to muster an army of Urukhai, orcs who can travel at great speed & are not hindered by day light, not like your ordinary morgoth orcs. But then again, I cannot supply with a quote so you believe it or not, though I highly doubt Saurman's ring is nothing more than an ornament.

[Boromir88]

I think you are just basing this off pure speculation.

Saruman has long studied the lore of the ring-making of Sauron.

Just because he studied it for many years doesn't mean he totally figured it out.

With his own version of a home-made ring, he was able to muster an army of Urukhai, orcs who can travel at great speed & are not hindered by day light, not like your ordinary morgoth orcs. But then again, I cannot supply with a quote so you believe it or not, though I highly doubt Saurman's ring is nothing more than an ornament.

It's not even known whether Saruman mixed orcs and men to get the uruk-hai, it's assumed and probably the likely choice, but it's not certain. So, I doubt whether there's any mention of Saruman's ring inabling him to create the race. Also, with the ornament comment, Saruman was from Aule, like Sauron, both naturally being greedy.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I think you are just basing this off pure speculation.

Just because he studied it for many years doesn't mean he totally figured it out.

It's not even known whether Saruman mixed orcs and men to get the uruk-hai, it's assumed and probably the likely choice, but it's not certain. So, I doubt whether there's any mention of Saruman's ring inabling him to create the race. Also, with the ornament comment, Saruman was from Aule, like Sauron, both naturally being greedy.

As I've said, you can choose to believe what you want since I don't have any quotes at my disposal. I knew very well that Saruman was from the house of Aule, which is why I said that this wouldn't be impossible for Saruman to replicate, even of a lesser measure, the might of the great rings. Remember when Gandalf saw Saurman's clothes changing color... & then he spotted the ring. He wouldn't have forged a ring just for vanity's sake now would he?

[Fingolfin II]

I'm inclined to agree with Boromir here. As far as I know, Saruman's ring was only mentioned once in the whole entire story and that was when Gandalf spoke about their encounter to the Council of Elrond. Gorthaur, you have overlooked the fact that Sauron was the one who created the Uruk-hai; Saruman just experimented. Besides, if the ring was such a big factor in the story as you suggest, I'm sure Tolkien would have mentioned it more than once. To my mind, the Ring was more of an example of Saruman's former wisdom being replaced by arrogance and his attempt to copy Sauron in the hope of sharing some of his power.

Saruman deeply studied the lore of the Great Rings, but whether this was enough for him to actually replicate the power of a Great Ring is doubtful. I mean, even the grandson of the greatest Elf-smith ever probably couldn't have forged the Great Rings with such potency as they contain without Sauron's instruction.

As Boro said, it is not entirely known about the origin of the Uruk-hai, though it is likely there was cross-breeding between Men and Orcs. This is supported by a quote said by Gandalf somewhere in LotR, as well as by a discussion between Pippin and Aragorn in Isengard.

[narfforc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

I have always seen this as Saruman's attempt to copy Sauron. I also think that it was one of Tolkien's 'Lost Tracks' which he left in as an oversight. He may well have had reason to mention this ring, but then continued down another route. Why does Tolkien mention it?, many people wear rings, why would Saruman's ring be of any import. When Gandalf expels Saruman from the Order his power has been deemed to have been broken, yet Gandalf warns them later on that he still has the power of his voice, if anything maybe the ring enhanced that and the power of that ring hadn't yet been broken (this is of course mere speculation on my part).

[Findegil]

If I remember corretctly, you will find in the history of the wirtting of the Lord of the Rings, that Tolkien had Saruman at first find one of the Rings dedicated to the dwarves. This was later changed when the number of the Rings became more fixed and 7 Dwarven Rings were partily recovered by Sauron and partily destroyed be dragon fire.

That means, the improtance of mentioning the Ring at Sarumans hand first lay in the fact that there was at that time of writing no full account of all the Rings of Power. So one Ring less, one chance less that the one Ring in the hand of the hobbit is not the one.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Juicy-Sweet]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Also, Saruman's ring didn't appear to have any power, seemed as if it was a failed attempt of creating what Sauron created. So, even if the One Ring did have control over Sarumans, it wouldn't have really mattered.

Gandalf mentions somewhere that there are "many" magical rings

+ when he at first learns of Bilbo's ring he just thinks "o well a ring of invisibility" and doesnt think of the seven or the nine or the great rings at all.

I always took together as meaning that the elves made lots of different magical rings, hundreds or thousand, and that these "minor" rings had all sorts of different magical powers, so one shouldnt be surprises if one came upon an invisibility ring.

Saruman's ring might have been one if these - and what power it gave, we have no idea. It wouldnt be a lot though, not enough to create an army of uruk-hai.

Even for Gandalf, I have no idea where to draw the limits between his own power and the power conferred to him by his ring.