WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Nogrod]

”Well that was nice indeed!”, grinned the Shard.

“A good Day it was...”, the Drop chuckled.

“Aha!”, the Flame put in. “But this really bothered me earlier this Night... I mean they outscore us in killing 4-3! So are they more evil than we are?”

“I don’t know if you can technically call their first go with that Hornblower as a murder as she jumped to the Water herself...”, the Shard thought out aloud.

“Yeah, and Greenie was indeed one of us so maybe they don’t regard that as an evil but a good deed indeed?”, the Drop continued.

“But didn’t we talk about this just yesterNight? Remember what...”, the Flame started only to be bluntly interrupted by the Shard.

“Now don’t start that again Flame! We had that discussion already. If you have any fresh starts please go on but...”

The Flame was quiet for a moment and then waved for the others to proceed forwards.

~*~

The three were walking down the New Row silently, listening to any signs of movement around.

“Isn’t this the Sharkey’s End we’re walking?” the Flame asked in the end, breaking the silence.

“It’s those darn Bywater hobbits who use that name”, the Shard spatted.

“That’s pretty rude now isn’t it?” the Drop commented.

“That’s just what I’m thinking... even more strongly by now. C’mon, they kill more than we do and they make fun of our dead... Sharkey’s End... fun indeed... for them”, the Flame protested quietly.

The Shard stopped abruptly and waited for the other two to halt as well and to turn back to him.

“Now what is it exactly you’re driving at my friend?

The Flame shrugged and looked for the Drop for support. “Okay then. Can you make a difference now between us and them, now can you Shard?”

There was an odd silence.

“We kill, they kill... we laugh, they laugh... it seems to fit”, the Drop mused.

“Agreed... What then?” the Shard muttered, “but what about it, what’s your point?”

“Well, I was just thinking whether we could be called the baddies and they the goodies anymore... I mean if we’re doing the same thing in the end... that’s what I was thinking. And what will it mean to us and how we see ourselves?”, the Flame bursted, annoyed that the Shard didn’t seem to get his idea.

“So you’re trying to question whether there is any good or evil as such in the Shire anymore, right?” the Drop asked sincerely.

“But isn’t it enough that we started this whole thing off? It was a nice and cozy village and look at the bloodshed now! Aren’t we victorious in any case?” the Shard exclaimed quite aloud.

“Shh...”, the Drop hissed.

“But they’ve surpassed us in the killings! What’s the point of just looking at who started if the retaliation is much worse than the initial bad deed?” the Flame answered, hardly able to keep his voice down. “Sorry Shard, but I do have a slight problem with my identity right now! I’d like to know whether I’m a baddie or a goodie or just something in between...”

There was a silence which was broken by the sarcastic notion of the Shard: “Well? Are there any actual consequences to your thoughts or not? Maybe you’d like to sit back and wallow in your private existential anguishes while me and Drop do the work then?”

The Drop looked at both his mates wondering where this might lead to.

“No, no. I’m in. That’s what I am. I am a killer. That’s the only thing I’m sure about right now. But I was just wondering about the way we should do it...” the Flame said with contrastingly serious tone.

“How about singing Summertime today?”, the Drop suggested with a smile.

The two others shook their heads disapprovingly.

~*~

“Okay mates. The time is running out”, the Shard said and crashed the door into the hobbithole beside of which they had stood.

They met a screaming hobbit in the hallway.

“Hush now m’dear”, the Drop hissed to the screaming hobbit. Then he turned towards his mates pointing them to take positions around the hobbit. “Now here’s what we do... Trust me, I know what I’m doing... no Summertimes...” The Drop turned to face the hobbit once more but seemed to address also the other werewolves at the same time. “So clockwise we go around this prickly pear and with every “pear” we’ll give you a nice little slash... that ok. my little?”

The hobbit had stopped screaming and was trembling in horror looking at the three giant werewolves gathering around her and talking about slashing her.

“Cheer up milady, it looks like playtime!” the Shard chickled.

Then the Drop started.

Here we go round the prickly pear...

And with the word ‘pear’ he slashed the hobbit's right arm off. The others caught the idea and grinned. Soon they were all walking round her and singing joyfully the old rhyme and taking their turns with every ‘pear’.

Here we go round the prickly pear,
Prickly pear, pricly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o’clock in the morning...

“Well that was delightful indeed!” the Shard admitted after the hobbit had been chopped to pieces following a few rounds of the round game. "And it should have been pleasant to her as well... the round games are always the favourites with the hobbits..."

“Any uplifting add-ons to leave for our living hobbits, anyone?” the Drop asked with a wide smile.

“I guess that song reminded me about one... Paper, pen, anyone? No?” the Flame looked around him.

“There’s enough blood for a novel”, the Shard grinned.

While the Flame was busy writing the Drop took a look around. “Hey, look at this!” he shouted after looking into the drawer. “There’s a list of names here... seems to be correct.”

The Shard bellowed with laughter. “Excellent! Excellent my friends! This seer Kath Woodyend will not trouble us no more”.

“And the lines I wrote will be even more poignant...”, the Flame grinned.



~*~

The dead:
Nogrod (mod) - Noggie Boffin - beheaded and played soccer with on Night1
Nerwen (ordo) - Nerwen Hornblower - jumped to the river not to force anyone to kill another hobbit on Day1
Valier (ordo) - Vallen FurryFoot - skinned, grilled and served as a breakfast on Night2
Rikae (ordo) – Rikae Took - left the Hobbitton to find aid from somewhere in the middle of Day2
A Little Green (the Breath) - Lilla Greenhand - beaten to death by the hobbits on Day2
Legate of Amon Lanc (ordo) - Legate Sackville-Baggins - sacked, bagged & hanged on Night3
Satansaloser2005 (ordo) - Sally Shortbrush - rammed dead with a table on Day3
Mormegil (the ranger of the Shire) - Mormegil Harrybelly - stabbed to death on Day3
Kath (the seer of the shire) – Kath Woodyend - slashed into pieces during a round game on Night4

The living:
Thinlómien - Lommy Baggins
Aganzir - Agan Sackville-Baggins
Meneltarmacil - Lupo Furryface
Volo - Justy Proudfoot
Macalaure - Mac Sandyman
The Might - Might of Greenholm
Feanor of the Peredhil - Belladonna Briarpatch
Brinniel - Brinn Burrows
Farael – Farael Twofoot
Shastanis Althreduin – Shasta of the River
Kuruharan -Kuru Shrewthwacker

Day4 has dawned.

[The Might]

Well, I am sure that there is little that I can say now to either make you trust me again, if you did trust me that is, or not lnych me. I know that I acted like a total fool, and I am sorry for that, also if necessary I am ready to support the consequences.
The problem is that I know I am innocent and that if I get killed today about that stupid decision yesterday and not a wolf the situation doesn't look good for the others.
I'm really sorry and there is not much that I can say.
Next time when there will be a double lynch possibilty I'll just keep my hands away from the keyboard.

I find those that voted for mormegil (ironic, myself too) quite suspicious right now.
All I want is for you to give me a chance to redeem myself. If you want proof that I am not a wolf, then I shall vote for whoever is considered to be a wolf by most.

Again, I am sorry for wasting the ranger, but now with our seer gone too we must stick together.

[Kuruharan]

Hmmm…welp…

The Might did willfully and with malice aforethought cause a double lynching even though at that point everybody else said they didn’t want one and were trying to work to prevent it. He’s been consistently distracting as well, bringing up various issues to get us arguing and neglecting the business of hunting wolves. Oh, and Kath voted against him on Day One.

He’s got some ‘splaining to do.

Meneltarmacil is beginning to look ever more suspicious. I’ve been hesitant in my suspicion of him because, lets face it, he’s always kind of suspicious. But now there is real reason to suspect him. He is wildly inconsistent and definitely has the appearance of going along with whatever the most popular theory at the time. He also seems leery of disagreeing with whoever it is he happens to be talking to at the time (ex. his arguing that morm was a wolf, then when morm appeared changing his mind, and then going back to arguing that morm was a wolf). Kath voted against him yesterday.

Thinlómien was one of my early suspects. I didn’t feel suspicious of her yesterday…mainly because she was saying things that I agreed with. Oops! So I’m suspicious of her again. I’m uncomfortable because she said she was willing to try a double lynch in post 339. However, she did try to avoid it at the end.

Shastanis Althreduin is very quiet. Not saying this is bad…just blends into the background and can be easily forgotten.

However, I don’t think all these people are wolves (obviously since there thankfully aren’t four wolves now).

These are the people who spoke favorably of a double lynching at some point yesterday…

The Might post 298 (caused one)
Menel post 301
Lommy post 339
Macalaure flip flopped on them initially saying in post 359 that he was against them, but then in post 366 seemed to downplay the risks of it.

[Volo]

My angst yesterDay after the bloodshed:
I wish I was dead. Or at least less influential, my old cobbler self to whom people didn't listen... (Cruel that I was a Cobbler last game.)
YesterDay was surely something I didn't await for and now I'm completely lost. Oh, morm, why didn't you tell us...
Now we should resolve that we won't double lynch ever unless the Seer tells us to.
I trust noone, myself the least...
Most suspicious: Menel, Might, Lommy, Brinn.

Ok, that was history and little attention should be given it.

I'd like to say a few words about Rangers:
Morm should have told us his role yesterDay. A lynched Ranger is one of the worst possible scenarios (only the lynching the Seer being worse).
I wouldn't have voted a person who declared himself the Ranger:
1. The person will probably be killed next Night (but that's better than lynching him).
2. The isn't killed during the Night, because the Wolves want to bluff and make us think that the person isn't the Ranger or the person wants to bluff and isn't the Ranger. I don't see any harm done this way. We don't lynch "the Ranger" unless another Ranger comes to claim the role or the real Ranger dies (or is Dreamed of). If a compeditor appeared we'd know that one of them is a Wolf - then we have to decide.


A few words about our Seer:
Read post #317. It gives the feel that her Day3 dream was morm.
The other dreams can be Brinn, Might and/or Menel. I'm not decided which they could be.


I'm in the middle of a post-to-post analysis of Day3, but I'll tell a few things I have found:
I get a feeling that Kuru is trying to steer the discussiong away (using the talk-effect or whatever it was called) both in #297 and #300. What do you think?

Another - and the more important - is:

Originally Posted by Mac

Lily and Menel

"I found Menel's continuous joking about not being eaten disturbing.
my vote today will most probably be Menel."

Menel finds her suspicious but chooses morm over her for reasons I think are understandable.

This has been mentioned before, but I find Menel's post #238 leaning suspicious.

Ah, I'll try to get my thoughts more organised now, get the whole post-to-post analysis over and look at Kath's posts.

The feeling before Kath's death, Aganzir being least suspicious and Menel being the most suspicious.
Aganzir
Thinlómien
Farael
Shastanis Althreduin
Macalaure
Feanor of the Peredhil
Kuruharan
Brinniel
The Might
Meneltarmacil

Xd with everything since #435.

[The Might]

Typical of a wolf to blame innocents when they are vulnerable, isn't that right Mac?
I've said it before and I repeat it again, if you need a proof, I shall vote for whoever you, the others will consider most suspicious.
Do you really want to weaken the village by lynching another, even if not so skilled, ordo?
Well, I am not sure what I should do to prove my innocence and I feel sorry that probably because of me we'll lose this game.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Volo, underlinings mine

I trust noone, myself the least...
Most suspicious: Menel, Might, Lommy, Brinn.

--

The feeling before Kath's death, Aganzir being least suspicious and Menel being the most suspicious.
Aganzir
Thinlómien
Farael
Shastanis Althreduin
Macalaure
Feanor of the Peredhil
Kuruharan
Brinniel
The Might
Meneltarmacil

What??

I don't understand why Volo rambles about rangers. It's a bit weird, and not in a positive way. On the other hand, his first angst seems quite unfeigned and kind of familiar...

A few words about our Seer:
Read post #317. It gives the feel that her Day3 dream was morm.
The other dreams can be Brinn, Might and/or Menel. I'm not decided which they could be.

I find it funny how differently we read her posts. I think other people should look at her posts as well and say what they think. Comparing the results would be interesting.

EDIT: xed with Miggy and Aggy

[The Might]

If I am a wolf, I promise to post a pic of me eating my socks after this is done.

No, but really now, I don't want to lose the game. By killing me you would waist the opportunity to kill a wolf.
I hope you will believe me, if not, then I guess I've earned it anyway because I was too newbish to listen...

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, after what happened with morm I think I'll join in on that clothes-eating party mentioned yesterday.

*proceeds to eat his coat, scarf, shoes, and haalf of his whole wardrobe*

OK, one more time, I never said that mormegil was innocent. The one comment I made about being unsure also contained a statement that I would go analyze his posts and report my findings. I did the analysis because I wanted to make sure of what he was before deciding on a vote. Later, I posted my analysis showing him to be wolfish. I hope that makes sense.

However, I'm out of leads right now. Maybe some of morm's suspicions about Lommy were correct, maybe not, but I really am out of ideas right now.

Finally, I am not a werewolf, but I don't think there's anything I can do now to shake off suspicion, so if you really want to lynch me, go right ahead. It's not going to accomplish anything, since I am not a werewolf, though.

[Aganzir]

To me it seems that Kath had dreamt of Lommy and morm and found both innocent.

Originally Posted by Kath

The fact that Lommy and morm had the same thing going yesterDay has me thinking they're both innocent, as the back and forth posts felt much as Rikae and Nerwen's did.

Because this looks such a fabricated reason to claim them both innocent.

About the third dream I have no idea. However, I doubt Kath would've specificly said she's not sure (like she said about Menel) if she was speaking of a dreamt wolf.

At the moment I think Brinn's much more probably a wolf than Menel.

Originally Posted by Lommy

And Aganzir could be lynched just for being so nasty.

Now I don't think that's a proper reason.

Off to sleep now.

[Farael]

First of all

*Grabs ketchup, eats hat*

Sally what were you thinking? Even though you were speaking sense yesterDay, your previous behaviour made it sound as if you were a wolf afraid that they'd call your bluff and trying to back down... It's a shame that you were an ordo, but I stand by my vote... you really did seem wolfish.

And while we are questioning other people's thoughts [B}The Might[/B] what were you thinking?

If we were at an earlier stage of the game, I'd say we have to lynch him to clear the air... I mean, that double-lynch went against what most of the village wanted, at the least it was a selfish move. Right now, we can't afford to lose another ordo, and I still get the feeling he's just a confused ordo.

I wouldn't blame him, the wolves have been playing us like a fiddle.

Now on to the accusations.

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Finally, I am not a werewolf, but I don't think there's anything I can do now to shake off suspicion, so if you really want to lynch me, go right ahead. It's not going to accomplish anything, since I am not a werewolf, though.

That right there reeks of wolfishness. I don't think there have been many strong accusations levelled at Menel yet, and even though they are sure to come, I think he started with this defence a bit too fast.

Originally Posted by Volo

Morm should have told us his role yesterDay. A lynched Ranger is one of the worst possible scenarios (only the lynching the Seer being worse).
I wouldn't have voted a person who declared himself the Ranger:
1. The person will probably be killed next Night (but that's better than lynching him).
2. The isn't killed during the Night, because the Wolves want to bluff and make us think that the person isn't the Ranger or the person wants to bluff and isn't the Ranger. I don't see any harm done this way. We don't lynch "the Ranger" unless another Ranger comes to claim the role or the real Ranger dies (or is Dreamed of). If a compeditor appeared we'd know that one of them is a Wolf - then we have to decide.

Well, first of all this train of thought is a waste of time... a) Morm's dead and b) he was most likely not around when the last votes were coming in. Keep in mind that he probably did not want to say his role unless it was completely necessary to.

That's another thing that concerns me about The Might... he came in right at the last minute and BAM! double-lynch. No good explanations other than "I feel I need to do this". The more I think of it, the more suspicious it seems, and yet it's amost "too easy".

And here's an interesting thought... with five votes to go, Morm was up by 2 (4-2) votes over Sally

Then:

Loomy votes for Sally, in agreement with Kuru who thought it was best to kill Sally than Morm

Brinniel votes for Menel. I don't think it was a good idea, as there was a clear risk of a double lynch... she should've voted either for Morm and try to put him out of reach, or [B}Sally[/B] and help those who wanted to get rid of her isntead. However, at that point there were still enough votes left to lynch Menel instead of the other two, so I don't think it was a wolfish move.


Aganzir votes for Sally and remarks it's a tie, asking others to vote.

Kuruharan votes for Sally

The Mgiht seals their fate with a double-lynch. He also starts apologising right away... that right there is making me lean towards Might being a wolf... if you believe that a double-lynch is a good idea (and you clearly do, since you caused it) why apologise profusely from the get-go? after all, should you be right, you could very well be the hero!

Looking at these last votes, I'd say that Loomy and Kuru seem honest... they were acting to lynch Sally instead of [B]Morm[/B}. Brinniel seems innocent too, but with an ill-fated vote for a third party. However, it wasn't a "throw away" vote, Menel had a chance of getting lynched. Immediately after that vote, Aganzir votes for Sally, setting up the double-lynch scenario. Kuru breaks the tie but Might ties it up again.

So I'd say that from there Might is possibly a wolf, Aganzir may be too, and trying to act to protect Menel by forcing the remaning voters to ignore Menel as an option or have a triple lynch.

I will probably be around on and off, but it's not guaranteed so I will cast my vote now to make sure I get it in.

While Menel looks worse by the minute, I just find Might's actions impossible to ignore, specially the fact that he started apologising as soon as he voted. He never once considered the possibility that he might nail down two wolves, which was likely since Sally and Morm had been under heavy fire for quite a while. That makes me think he knew that double lynch would be disastrous, and the only way he could've known is by being a wolf

++The Might

As a parting-shot, I'd like to hear some more from Fea

[Meneltarmacil]

I look more suspicious to you lately, Volo? Don't forget that you were right behind me when it came to suspecting mormegil.

[Volo]

Volo suddenly goes very defencive... of Might.

Originally Posted by Farael

The Mgiht seals their fate with a double-lynch. He also starts apologising right away... that right there is making me lean towards Might being a wolf... if you believe that a double-lynch is a good idea (and you clearly do, since you caused it) why apologise profusely from the get-go? after all, should you be right, you could very well be the hero!

Innocents appologise just as often as the Wolves do, if not even more often.
I thought about what the Wolves win by causing a double-lynch like that and putting one of their own into such a position. They couldn't know morm was the Ranger, so I think that the deal would not be a good one for the Wolves.

Originally Posted by Might

Anyways, looking at those quotes I think I might be onto something. It's funny how Might was viewed as so suspicious on Day 1 and after that, everyone seemed to forget about him (except for our dear seer). I must say Might has made many mistakes in this game (voting for himself, his safe vote for Green, causing a double-lynching, his seemingly heavy reliance on other people's posts). So far a lot of us overlooked it saying, "Oh, he's probably just a confused innocent and his mistakes are newbieish behaviour." I admit I've done it myself. But it's just as likely he's a newbie wolf making several mistakes despite the advice of his fellow mates.

Now it looks like Sally's actions, and since I was so wrong with those, I wouldn't want to lynch another Innocent newbie for the same reasons.
The part about fellow mates giving advice seems to be a key point. Might's style of play didn't change a little bit from yesterDay to toDay, and I'm sure that if there was discussion between him and fellow Wolves, then he'd change his style and inevitably play "better".


Now I think that Kath Dreamed of Innocent Lommy and morm, as Aganzir mentioned in #449.
And Wolf Menel, like I mentioned in post #450.


I find one thing Mac said very disturbing:

Originally Posted by Mac, underlined by me

Volo, on the other hand, seems to be more serious with his suspicions against Lily. He didn't mention her on day one and then pursued her on day two. He gives her the almost deciding 4th vote. If a wolf tried to actively kill Lily, then Volo fits the description.

At first I thought that Brinn said that comment - and I'd have regarded it a reason to lynch her outright. Now in Mac's case I can't find an explanation to this being suspicious as Mac hasn't had Wolves as his main suspects (if Might isn't one). But to say something like that makes me feel that the Wolves discussed about at least one of them attacking the fellow Wolves strongly - if Mac is a Wolf, and he could be a flying-over-the-radar Wolf (which is wierd as it's Mac we're talking about). Do you think this is too far-fetched?


I have another question, about our wandering Dwarf friend Kuru. Anybody who's played with him before: Is he always so undecided? He seems like being aware of all the stuff happening here, but there is barely a post in which he's sure of what he's talking. I mean he talks a lot and gives his opinion about most things going around, but he nearly always puts a "but...", "on the other hand...", "looks too easy..." after his point and dissolves it by saying the very opposite. One can't be sure whom he suspects, and one can't even see what he thinks about people. Mostly he follows other people's trails and sweeps them around.


I'm late for a meeting, again. :/

[Kuruharan]

I’m not finding either The Might or Menel very convincing right now at all.

The Might seems more interested in saving his own skin than in finding other wolves.

Menel…well…he says this…

I look more suspicious to you lately, Volo? Don't forget that you were right behind me when it came to suspecting mormegil.

…that’s a bit tacky. It doesn’t sit well with me at all.

Since Kath spoke about Lommy in a favorable light a few times, I’ll take her word for it at least for awhile.

[Meneltarmacil]

Why are all the major "let's lynch morm" people from yesterDay suddenly going after me? Kuru, I'm especially surprised that you're attacking me just because I wanted to take a second look at mormegil, given that you seemed to rush headlong into suspecting morm. I'll admit I was worried about everyone going after me toDay, but why the former anti-morm crowd?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I always feel so overshadowed and I can never think of anything to say that someone else hasn't already said better.

The ones I am most suspicious of now (though, I was completely, totally wrong about morm):

Volo, for... well, I don't believe I ever explicitly stated a reason, and right now it's midnight and I don't have time to go back and look for it. I'll do it tomorrow, promise. I do believe I have something solid on him.

Brinn and Menel have already been talked about today. To be honest, they strike me as odd as well, but I can't find a single concrete thing about them. I don't know if both of them are wolves, though.

[Aganzir]

This situation is slightly annoying me. We do half of the work for the wolves.

Originally Posted by The Might

If you want proof that I am not a wolf, then I shall vote for whoever is considered to be a wolf by most.

But that's not a proof that you're not a wolf. That's a proof that you want to remain alive, cost what it will.

It's 8-3 now. Could we possibly decide to avoid double-lynches from now on?

I don't know what to think about The Might. First he says he would vote for sally, then he counts the votes and votes morm, causing a double lynch. To me this looks extremely suspicious.

I think Might and Brinniel are likely to be fellow wolves. I'll explain it better when I have more time (this night or tomorrow, rl).

Originally Posted by Lommy

but right now I feel that Menel and Aganzir might be furry

The same thing happened with your mammoth-theory: at least half was wrong.

Originally Posted by Might

Volo's post right before my vote seems quite wolvish as well.

To me it seems rather quite voloish.

[Thinlómien]

This is just horrible. I mean, my only strong suspects have been proved wrong, the double-lynch I could have executed myself was a total disaster and now our seer's dead as well (like our ranger). I really could bang my head against a wall or something...

I have not been able to bring myself to reread the thread and think it all over again and form new suspects, but right now I feel that Menel and Aganzir might be furry and that Farael and Brinniel are probably innocent. I'm totally confused about The Might who looks like a bold wolf but is probably too wolvish to be one. I really need to rethink if I can trust Volo and Mac and I should have a good look at the rest of people as well.

That being said, I'm going to first look through Kath's posts and see if they give any clues about whom she might have dreamt of. Then, if I'm not too tired, I'm going to reread through the whole thread or at least the posts of Greenie and all the living people.

EDIT: xed with Miggy and Kuru

[The Might]

I am well aware that I have explaining to do and all I can say is that it is an unfortunate event that I have made these decisions. I was quite sure about Sally, which also turned out to be wrong in the end, and also suspected morm somewhat...now I feel like a fool.

As already said in the first post, if voting Menel or anyone else will help you believe me, then I am willing to.

Volo's post right before my vote seems quite wolvish as well.

[Macalaure]

I can't believe you actually did it. The one time I'm gone a few hours early, and you initiate a double lynch! And what a double lynch! Now, both our gifteds are dead, and we still have 3 wolves around - and only 8 ordos left against them.

I only have time for a very short comment (or rather a defense, I guess) now, but I'll have plenty later. There is much to be looked at today.

Originally Posted by me

PS: I've seen an all-ordo quadruple lynching once, so:
--double lynchings

Originally Posted by me, too

I think Kuru's concern about the risks of a double lynching is way out of the reasonable. The village is still relatively large, and we're not that insane here. I think we can handle a fourth option:

Originally Posted by Kuru

Macalaure flip flopped on them initially saying in post 359 that he was against them, but then in post 366 seemed to downplay the risks of it.

I didn't flip-flop. I was totally against it. However, we had a village of 14. 4 candidates in a village of that size is usually not double lynch dangerous. It's a completely average number! The vast majority of us didn't support a double lynch. There was no reason to be worried about it, for me, and that's why I wondered why you were.

I was wrong.


PS: Lynch the Might.

[Thinlómien]

What Kath said about others

Day1
#18 nothing
#51 is slightly suspicious of Nerwen, feels pretty ok about Rikae, and me (except for one comment which she disagreed with). Does not know what to think of ALG and jokes that morm is suspicious.
#67 votes Might because he caught her eye. Is not sure if a wolf would act like Miggy acts, though.

Day2
#157 says Valier was probably killed for looking like the seer. Suspects Greenie slightly. Thinks me and morm innocentish based on our behaviour. Would like to hear more of Fea's own opinions.
#168 says the stuff about Rikae is interesting and she finds it more credible than the idea that morm is a wolf, which seems a bit forced. Does not like Miggy's self-vote, says he could be a bold wolf. Does not like morm's vote for Valier either. Says the placement of Brinn's vote could be suspicious and she might have tried to save a fellow wolf morm. Asks Greenie why Nerwen's death makes me suspicious. Thinks Greenie, Might, morm and Brinn guilty.
#227 says her suspicion of Brinn has increased, votes Greenie who is her main suspect.
#255 nothing

Day3
#317 says she's more comfortable around morm that day. Is worried about Kuru's behaviour and says that unless Brinn is a wolf, morm probably isn't. Thinks I and morm are both innocent because our strife looks like an innocent one. Suspects Might and Brinn. Says Kuru feels like a misguided innocent and Menel is suspicious and not fitting right to her. Assumes morm innocent.
#354 her suspicion of Menel is rising. Is unsure about Sally's behaviour.
#358 is not convinced of morm's wolvishness and unsure about Sally. Votes Menel, whom she finds suspicious.

Conclusions

I think she quite probably dreamt of morm, either on Night2 or Night3. The sentence "I'm actually a lot more comfortable with morm toDay" said on Day3 points at it being Night3 when she dreamt of him, especially as she was still suspicious of morm the Day before.

Who did she dream of on the two other Nights then? I think she might have dreamt of Greenie on Night2, because she clearly started suspecting her after that.

Night1 then? Well, of those she mentioned Nerwen is ruled out because she was no wolf, she's too unsure of Greenie to have dreamt of her that early and I think it doesn't look like she had dreamt of TM either. I think she would have been more against him if she had dreamt of wolf-Might. So that leaves Rikae and me. On Day2, she found the arguments against Rikae worth considering, so she probably didn't dream of her.

So, if I had to guess, I'd say she dreamt of me on Night1 and found me innocent, Greenie on Night2 and found her guilty and morm on Night3 and found him innocent.

That's how I see it, and sadly it hardly helps me at all.

EDIT: xed with Might and Mac

[Volo]

Thanks Lommy, (although it's hard to believe that you gathered all of that so soon.)

I don't think Kath Dreamed of Lily, there was no need for it at that time and I think her vote looks more like pure logic than a Seer's Dream.

And I can't think that she Dreamed of you, Lommy, either (although I'll feel happy if it was so, as I tossed a guess that you had been Dreamed of on Day1 or 2.). She would have mentioned you differently.

Her Night1 Dream is a mystery, Might jumps into my mind, but could she have been so obvious? Probably no. And although I'd Dream of a new player myself, I have doubts in whether Kath would do so - actually to flip-flop with my preveous though, she would probably have Dreamed of Lily rather than of Might.

Her obvious Night2 Dream would be Brinniel, but it feels too obvious.

I'm quite sure her Night3 Dream was morm.


Might and Brinn seem obvious, but could it be that the Wolves didn't kill her on Night2 and 3 because of fear for the Ranger - she was, after all, killed as soon as the Ranger was down.

Aargh, my head is going to explode, I should go to sleep...


EDIT: Xd with everything since my preveous post.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Lommy

What??

The first is what I felt straight after morm's and sally's deaths.
The second from just before toDay started. It still doesn't mean that I'll go far enough to trust anybody, except maybe Legate, but he's dead. :/

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't understand why Volo rambles about rangers. It's a bit weird, and not in a positive way.

Because I'm annoyed? (Nothing personal at all morm, I just don't understand why you decided to keep it a secret through that situation...)

Originally Posted by Lommy

On the other hand, his first angst seems quite unfeigned and kind of familiar...

:O Oh... I mean, have I done that before?

Originally Posted by Lommy

I find it funny how differently we read her posts. I think other people should look at her posts as well and say what they think. Comparing the results would be interesting.

I agree! It wouldn't only be interesting, but also useful - probably.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Volo

Thanks Lommy, (although it's hard to believe that you gathered all of that so soon.)

Well, you have to remember Kath only made 10 posts in total...

Originally Posted by Volo

I don't think Kath Dreamed of Lily, there was no need for it at that time and I think her vote looks more like pure logic than a Seer's Dream.

A valid point, though I'm not sure I agree.

Originally Posted by Volo

Her Night1 Dream is a mystery, Might jumps into my mind, but could she have been so obvious? Probably no.

I agree. And I think she would have mentioned him again on Day3 if she had dreamt of him.

Originally Posted by Volo

Her obvious Night2 Dream would be Brinniel, but it feels too obvious.

I think the way she speculates about Brinn and morm seems like she hadn't dreamt of her... Remember she said she doubts morm is wolf unless Brinn is one too...

I think TM looks quite innocent. I mean, he's long past the point of wolvishness: he's too suspicious. No wolf in his right mind would play like that. Besides, he reminds me of my first game ever, when I was an ordo and about as silly as he's now, no offense.

And Aganzir could be lynched just for being so nasty.

Yesterday, when I posted my misguided theory, I realised it could be used for testing people's reactions as well. If you recall, I even asked what you thought of it. I think Menel's way of responding with a comment that it's very interesting and possibly credible (or something along those lines) looks quite fishy. I mean, it looks like a wolf smelling an opportunity.

edit: xed with Volo

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think the way she speculates about Brinn and morm seems like she hadn't dreamt of her... Remember she said she doubts morm is wolf unless Brinn is one too...

I think this means that she did dream about Brinn, and now this makes more sense to me. On Night1 she Dreamed of morm, as morm is a dangerous player. On Night2 she Dreamed of Brinn and found that she's Innocent.
The way she says "unless Brinniel turns out to be a wolf I doubt morm is one" I understand it that both players are of the same side. But then why would she put Brinn into the suspicious list, it feels like a contradiction to me and makes it impossible to find out whom she Dreamed of.

I think TM looks quite innocent. I mean, he's long past the point of wolvishness: he's too suspicious. No wolf in his right mind would play like that. Besides, he reminds me of my first game ever, when I was an ordo and about as silly as he's now, no offense.

If he's a Wolf, he's doing splendidly. But his last posts are indeed giving a genuine feel and I wouldn't accuse him too much because of the double-lynch. I admit that I'd have done that and Lommy seems to admit it too, don't you?
I do suspect him, but the double-lynch, as nasty as it was, doesn't tell us much about him. I'm talking nonsense - sometimes Might feels just so so Wolf-like, but so did Sally and there's a lot of similarities in their behavior. :/

I suspect Menel much more. And this -

Originally Posted by Kath

I can't explain it, he's just not fitting right to me.

- looks like she Dreamed about Menel, on Night3 - probably. So forget what I said in my preveous post about morm being Dreamed of on Night3.


I really really hope that these people will speak up:
Shastanis Althreduin
Macalaure
Feanor of the Peredhil
Kuruharan


EDIT Xd with Aganzir

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Because this looks such a fabricated reason to claim them both innocent.

Ha! Well found! I agree, although the part about Brinn still doesn't make sense to me.

Ok, I'll try to leave now - sorry for being confusing and changing my opinion often.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Volo

If he's a Wolf, he's doing splendidly. But his last posts are indeed giving a genuine feel and I wouldn't accuse him too much because of the double-lynch. I admit that I'd have done that and Lommy seems to admit it too, don't you?

No. I considered the possibility, but decided against it, as you might see frmo my late yesterDay posts. But, ironically, when I saw the results I was quite happy, ashamed and horrified that TM had the guts to do what I didn't dare to. The reason why I didn't dare to do it was because I did think it was possible (yet unprobable) I was wrong about them and I must admit I also ended up not trying to double-lynch Sally and morm because I saw it as a lost chance.