Werewolf XLII, Mist in the Barrow Downs

[Macalaure]

Lily, I'm not turning against Gwathagor. I only want to know the reasoning behind his decisions. I can decide whether he's suspicious or not only when I know what he had been thinking.

Originally Posted by Lily

Which one looks more like the start of a bandwagon, may I ask?

Mine.

I campaigned for the lynching of one of my main suspects. The fact that I was wrong obviously makes me look suspicious, but I don't think the fact that I urged a bandwaggon does. Gwathagor, on the other hand, could have known there was a potential for a waggon against her and then initiated it. Without his reasoning I have no idea what to think of this.

Originally Posted by Lily

How can she be so certain, especially after being mistaken about Agan?

The suspicions against the two were independent of one another, so there's no necessity to back off from Nerwen now - at least from my perspective.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

if Lommy had not spotted a wolf yet why should they be in a special hurry to get her killed instead of me, Legate, Rikae, Mac himself just to name a few good candidates?

Of course it would also make sense for them to kill someone who's on their track, but apparently these wolves did not think so. I see three possibilities:
a) Lommy was killed due to the utter lack of trails to the wolves.
b) I'm a wolf and wanted to rid myself from her.
c) The wolves are trying to frame me.
b) I know is not the case and c) I doubt.

[Meneltarmacil]

I have noticed, disturbingly, that Rikae and Macalaure have been defending and supporting each other during the entire game and coming up with the exact same suspects, Aganzir and Nerwen.

I do know that there are RL reasons for this, but this goes beyond what I would normally expect. Mac, as I've pointed out, Rikae fell right into your trap when you asked for a "conventional vs. weird" debate, and yet you dropped the idea and never called her on it. You later said that if a wolf had fallen for it, that wolf would be lynched. Yet you let Rikae go. Why?

[Macalaure]

I don't think Rikae took my bait. She said the debate made sense (or rather that I made sense when I started it), but she didn't further it in any other way. Later she only mentioned it again because she thought I had been misrepresented (which I had been).

It was Nerwen who, indirectly, stepped into it by posting very vague and fishy things about what I had been trying to do (#101).

Rikae and I have the same suspects, that is true, but as far as I can see, we came to our conclusions independently. From my part, the fact that her opinions are the same as mine is a big factor in why I find her to be unsuspicious. Hesitating to lynch the other or defending the other from seemingly unjust suspicions could surely be explained by RL reasons alone, but declaring the other innocent indeed would go a bit too far, (edit: ) it would not be in the spirit of the game.

[Farael]

We interrupt your regularly scheduled Werewolf day for this important announcement:

The narration including Lommy's sad demise is now up.

Also, there was a mild confusion about the role of the half-werewolves.
BEING A HALF WEREWOLF DOES NOT GIVE THE PLAYER ANY NON-ORDO QUALITIES, UNLESS S/HE HAPPENS TO BE A WOLF/HALF-WW OR A SEER/HALF-WW

Also, there are no hints on the narrations. Really. None.

Now baaaaaaaaaack to the game!

[Gwathagor]

Ok, it sounds like I need to explain a little bit. YesterDay, I had the wolves all figured out. I was pretty certain about a triumvirate involving Aganzir, A Little Green, and Macalaure. I voted for Aganzir at the end of the day, first, because I found her the more suspicious than A Little Green (and I wanted to wait before I accused Macalaure), and, second, because no one else had voted for her and I didn't want to just be a follower. I hope that's fairly clear and doesn't seem like an over-reaction (those are always suspicious).

Obviously, I was wrong about Aganzir, and, consequently, I am rethinking my suspicion of A Little Green as well.

I'm going to reread today's posts again and see if I can find anything that feels phony.

[Macalaure]

While I have to admit that I cannot follow your logic, Gwath, I think your explanation looks innocently genuine enough to make me less suspicious for now.

Originally Posted by Legate

I believe the sentence is clear: I am inclined to think Lommy was killed simply to leave no track, and as side effect, you eliminated a person who suspected you.

Your sentence is clear, but it's completely illogical:
If I was a wolf, then she does leave a highway of a track - towards me!

Originally Posted by Legate

I know, there are these RL things - but come on, defending each other in this way?

No RL whatsoever. By defending her continued suspicion of Nerwen, I also defend my continued suspicion of Nerwen.

[Nerwen]

First off, I should apologize for the no-vote yesterday. I messed up the timing– my computer clock is apparently slow, plus I had an RL emergency to deal with.

The way the votes went was odd. Given that Rikae was, for whatever reason, determined to save Mac– why did they not vote Sally?

Are they all wolves together? If so, why didn't they go for Shasta, Gwath or Menel?

Are Rik and Mac wolves who wanted at all costs to eliminate Aganzir as a threat (maybe the Seer)? Or are they innocents who were, for some reason, absolutely sure she was a wolf?

Reading the lasts posts (didn't have time until after the DL), I noticed that people didn't seem to realize I hadn't voted yet. I need to think about how this might have affected things.

Now, as to what Macalaure says about me: I did not post "vague and fishy" thngs at all. I just asked him to explain his peculiar behaviour. The way he went for me (and everyone else who questioned him) suggests a high degree of paranoia to me. Fact is, he was acting strangely enough to virtually ensure that people would wonder about him.

Funny thing is, in the previous games I've played here, he was much cooler– and he was a wolf in all of them. So what's going on now?

Now I'd like to hear from Gwathagor.

Edit: X'd with everyone since Gwath.

[Nogrod]

Nerwenalysis
+ various thoughts in brackets...

#97
Points on Mac being somewhat confusing while first asking people to concentrate on those flying under radar and avoiding controversiality and then telling he had only wished to trigger “senseless” discussion to reveal the wolves. Says it’s a handy plan but asks how Mac would have proceeded if it had worked.

(I’m still a bit loss with this one. Do you people mean that when Mac says in his first post that: "Strangely, everybody seems reluctant to discuss the useless things and remains quiet because there is yet nothing useful to be said. While it is doubtlessly honorable to focus on what's important, it's not actually helping us today. As contradicting as it may appear, we need to discuss futile topics in order to be productive and make at least an educated guess when twilight comes.” then this is a masterplan after which all the wolves jump in joy and go forwards talking nonsense? I mean c’mon people!)

#101
Answers Gwath’s suspicion on Agan (known innocent) and LG with: "even casually stating your belief in a fellow-wolf's innocence can be rather risky". But then again says LG’s last post was sugary. Gives a tip (to Gwath I suppose?) to look at “staged” suspicions as they may be wolfy.

Points on Menel’s suspicion that “Rikae appears to have taken the bait” that Rikae had started talking about gut feelings already before Mac started his "let's suspect anyone who sounds sensible thing”.

(I’m totally baffled about this. How does this relate to anything that was said?)

Then adds the following:

I'm still not sure what to make of Mac. Was he trying to set a wolf-trap, as he claims? Or is he furry himself, and backed away from his scheme when he saw ii wasn't working? Either way, it was a rather dangerous ploy. If he's a wolf, he risked drawing suspicion on himself– if not, he risked giving the wolves the go-ahead to lynch helpful innocents.

Counters Menel’s suspicions of Shasta for him just being in-character longer than others and his suspicions being pretty jokey.

#107
Clarifies the rules to Gwath’s questions.

Makes a very roundabout notice of Sally’s vote-explanations: not liking it, Sally looking too eager to cover herself – but if sick then possibly not able to think clearly.

#109
Answers Mac:

I mean, if your idea was to encourage the wolves to act silly, and to go after anyone who was being helpful (thus revealing themselves), how did you plan to accuse them– when you'd previously said what they were doing was the hallmark of innocence?

(I admit I have totally lost my track trying to follow this logic... and what’s worse I’m not sure anymore if it is Mac’s logic, Nerwen’s logic or my own that is the weirdest.)

#116
Counters Mac’s conspiracy-theory of herself and Agan trying to help Gwath-wolf by asking why would they need to answer him. But questions Agan’s answer to Gwath as possibly wolf-matish (trying to indicate the other one is overdoing the “not knowing anything” -stuff) – or a wolf trying to lay suspicions on an ordo.

(This indeed looks somewhat suspicious. She ducks the initial question by Mac by kind of “re-asking” why would they need to answer Gwath and then goes on suspecting the other side to the suspicion who is now a known innocent...)

Adds the now famous:

Mac will probably jump on me now, and announce that I'm obviously trying to distance myself from my wolf-colleagues.

(A conscious ordo or a bold wolf pre-empting her stance?)

#142
Late from voting but still posting.

Would vote for Mac or Sally. Feels LG is better now and Gwath is a newbie so she wouldn’t like to vote for him either.

(Quite easy choices at that point of the Day – but admittedly the very same I thought the most suspicious by then.)

Questions why Rikae trusts Mac who acts “in a notably peculiar way”. Says that: “far from "misrepresenting" him, I was simply honestly saying what I thought he meant.”

Says: “Sally's vote for Shasta was perhaps the single most wolfish thing anyone has done today.” The problem was the reasons given but again backs off from it with: “this is Sally we're talking about. She's always weird. Also, it seems she's ill, which may account for some of the extra weirdness.”

DAY2

#169 You can read it just up above so comments only...

There's nothing to apologise for with RL-emergencies but why add the clock thing? Also I tend to disagree with her about Mac acting strangely. Mac has been more active participant than in a long time but not strange - wolvish to be sure but also innocentish. I quess this is again one of those things I don't get in this game: why do you think Mac acts weirdly?

~*~

Summa summarum: I don't know. I can now surely see where Mac and Rikae are coming from when suspecting her. The question to me remains which side of the argument is the true one. I have had my doubts, mostly on Mac, and I do have them still. But this needs to be thought of.


Just ot add a few short ones in the end.

I'm continuing to feel Sally's vote yesterDay a suspicious one. Most strongly the fact that her self-proclaimed "random vote" yesterDay hit Shasta and changed toDay into the "safely-picked one" as no one would vote for Shasta. I'm afraid there might be something fishy in there.

I'm lowering my suspicions on LG a bit as her first post yesterDay was just too aggressive - throwing suspicions all around - to be a wolf-post. And she has made a lot of sense since then.

EDIT: x'd Gwath x 2 + Nerwen

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mac

Now, this I don't understand. First you say there's not much in her death, then you say I could be a wolf. But if I was a wolf, then there is something in her death, namely that I got rid of her because she was dangerous to me. If this was the case, then obviously getting rid of someone who suspected me was not a side-effect, but the main goal.

I believe the sentence is clear: I am inclined to think Lommy was killed simply to leave no track, and as side effect, you eliminated a person who suspected you.

Okay, speaking of Mac - I am also somewhat concerned by the way he treats Rikae this time, though I am very well aware that Mac might simply be a little more knightly than usual, but what of things like this:

Originally Posted by Mac

The suspicions against the two were independent of one another, so there's no necessity to back off from Nerwen now - at least from my perspective.

Here Mac speaks about Rikae. I know, there are these RL things - but come on, defending each other in this way? This is just not normal and I don't like the idea of these two really being wolves together. Well, as we all know, nothing is impossible. I am beginning to seriously think about this possibility.

I must say Noggins makes pretty much sense and looks also far more active than yesterDay. On the other hand, Sally keeps me wondering about her daring playing style.

Originally Posted by sally

I know others have said it, but I must echo it. That sounds so very false. It's like he's saying "Yes! We've killed one with ease, but I've been caught in the act. Backpeddle! Backpeddle!" I do have a random thought though. Would you care to hear it? *waits, but no response* Good, no one objects.
Okay, let's assume he's being sincere, that he's upset because Agan was an innocent. Perhaps he is angry because he was hoping to rid our group of its seer? I'm sorry, I know it's a bit out there, and I'll have to look at Agan's posts to see if that's even a plausible theory, but I'll put it on the table for everyone to look at.

I know it can be an innocent playing, but the style... I am just worried about it. These are all sort of a half-fun but very daring theories which the poster herself immediately relativises. And that itself stirs my attention. Yes, worrying is the right word. If I were to form a conspiracy theory around here, I could imagine a Mac-Rikae-Sally wolf pack right now.

Well, I am probably going to sleep now - will be back in about nine hours at maximum. Hope to see more people posting around.

[satansaloser2005]

Quick announcement!

Apologies. I know I said I'd post again in a second, but I nodded off, and I need to rush to work. I'll be back sometime tonight, and will most likely have time to post quite a bit ahead of the deadline again. Faretheewell all!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Of course it would also make sense for them to kill someone who's on their track, but apparently these wolves did not think so. I see three possibilities:
a) Lommy was killed due to the utter lack of trails to the wolves.
b) I'm a wolf and wanted to rid myself from her.
c) The wolves are trying to frame me.
b) I know is not the case and c) I doubt.

If you're innocent indeed why do you doubt c)? I mean if you're innocent that would be just the perfect kill for the wolves! Maybe I need to go back to see who else Lommy suspected to see who you are covering right now?

*just a moment*

Well, no actual suspicions but Mac and Rikae. And possibly LG - it's hard to say if that was an actual suspicion.

Aganzir (known innocent), Legate and Shasta were her "dream-wolves".

I've been giving this some thought. Maybe her "dream-thing" actually startled the wolves after all? Funny you Mac don't mention it in your list of possibilities but only speak of you as a wolf wanting to rid yourself from her in general... just like you tried to downplay any information we might gather from Lommy's death in the beginning of the Day? If you're an ordo you're mind takes paths quite unfathomable to me.

~*~

Okay I almost opened the Day screaming that Mac and Rikae share the responsibility of my daughter's death. Happily I reread the thread before I posted that. But then again I must say I'm a bit confused about this.

Sometimes Mac posts like a truest innocent and at other times his posts just scream a WOLF. ToDay Mac's post have had an air of coming from the dark side alone... Rikae looks and even feels pretty straightforward reasoned innocent - except her overconfidence on Mac's innocence and maybe on Nerwen's lupinity. (I need to try and read Nerwen's posting the next...)

Here I think I agree with Lommy (bolding mine):

Originally Posted by ex-Lommy

"Mac and Rikae... I'm afraid I don't like the way you court and trial each other. Careful agreements, defenses and accusations to balance it out. It looks quite fishy. But I think the most probable scenario is that one of you is a wolf and he or she is trying to get the another one to his or her side or win his or her trust. I don't like it..."

Neither do I as losing either of you as innocents if we tried it would be very bad indeed.

So please you two open your eyes and forget the rosegarden for a moment - or at least until you can actually be sure...

EDIT: x'd with Mac