Where is Aeglos?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I believe there is not anywhere evidence to prove the fate of Aiglos for sure. The possibilities are - buried somewhere on the slopes of Mount Doom, or recovered and buried together with Gil-Galad, or even found by someone else and carried away (but I don't believe it to be like that, and I can already see the mad fanfiction ideas, but I don't think a spear so closely associated with Gil-Galad would be carried away by anyone else than the Elves themselves, and they would probably bury it with Gil-Galad - actually, what happened with Gil-Galad himself? - or they would hang it over the fireplace in Rivendell or something).

[Mithalwen]

The elves bury their dead but somewhere it says that their physical bodies disintegrate swiftly - however the Dead Marshes are meant to contain the corpse of the slain from the battle though after so long it must have been some phantasm.

No doubt the elves would have made special arrangements for their leader's body if possible but I don't know if they would have buried him with his weapons - it seems unelvish. I must admit - and this is an impression rather than something I believe I could provide evidence for - that the fact that the ring was "as hot as a glede" when Isildur took it, suggested to me that Aeglos (and possibly also Gil-galad was more or less incinerated in the process of killing Sauron. Of course Narsil was merely broken but swords have special qualities in Middle Earth and are not usually largely constructed of wood. Also a spear would probably have been embedded in Sauron whereas a sword can be more of a slashing weapon.

It is a theory, but I wouldn't bet the farm.

[Gollumkrazy93]

I would say that it probably ended up in rivendell or the grey havens as a relic of elven history

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I must admit - and this is an impression rather than something I believe I could provide evidence for - that the fact that the ring was "as hot as a glede" when Isildur took it, suggested to me that Aeglos (and possibly also Gil-galad was more or less incinerated in the process of killing Sauron. Of course Narsil was merely broken but swords have special qualities in Middle Earth and are not usually largely constructed of wood. Also a spear would probably have been embedded in Sauron whereas a sword can be more of a slashing weapon.

Oh, I just remembered - there was other thing I wanted to say. In the narration of the Siege of Barad-Dur, we are told that:

Originally Posted by Council of Elrond

...for the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos and Narsil, none could withstand. I beheld the last combat on the slopes of Orodruin, where Gil-galad died, and Elendil fell, and Narsil broke beneath him; but Sauron himself was overthrown...

So, follow my thoughts: it is just an idea, but it may work. We are told about both Gil-Galad (1) and Elendil (2), and both about Aiglos (3) and Narsil (4). But in the last sentence we hear: Gil-Galad (1) died and Elendil (2) fell and Narsil broke (4) - and what about Aiglos? Nothing. That might imply, at least to me, that it had not the same fate as Narsil (i.e. did not break, was not destroyed or such), or, that it's fate is not known at all (so it is left out totally from the tale). And, actually, had Aiglos been hanging above the fireplace in Elrond's house, this would be a fantastic opportunity for Elrond to say "...and Aiglos we have here, look, this is it". So, I would actually think that if anywhere, Aiglos probably wasn't in Rivendell. Maybe in Grey Havens, or on Elostirion, if so. But well, it's just a theory, of course.

[McCaber]

The Grey Havens was Gil-Galad's home, so that would be a logical place to keep Aiglos, or so I think.

[davem]

The usual method of attack for a warrior with spear & shield (which are the arms we are told Gil-galad bore - no mention of a sword in the attack on Sauron btw) was to advance with the shield held forward to protect the body & the spear held over the top. I imagine G-g bearing down on Sauron & delivering the killing blow at a downward angle. Of course, he may have been part of a 'shield-wall' made up of a number of Elven warriors, which would have been the safest tactic - assuming there were enough of them around. I think that its most likely the spear head would have been destroyed, but the shaft would probably have survived. If so, I don't think it would have been left to rot - Elves were 'embalmers' & had a tendency to hoard stuff.....

[Rumil]

I always wondered if Aiglos was more of a lance, I could imagine Gil-Galad on a splendidly caparisoned charger weilding a rather special spear, probably with a bue and white (or silver/mithril) pennon. I guess you might say this theory would fall down if he couldn't get his horse up Mount Doom, but there you go.

On the other hand the spear could be dual-use, ie useful on horseback or dismounted. Certainly the Rohirrim seem to have done this and it was viable historically.

Cirdan or Elrond probably half-inched Aiglos if it survived when Big S went up in smoke, as they were the only two left with Isildur at the time (whose attention was taken by a certain shiny ring of course).

[Mithadan]

I always envisioned Aiglos as having a somewhat broad, leaf-shaped blade. As Rumil points out, the two "senior" Elves present at the time of Gil-Galad's death were Elrond and Cirdan. So if Aiglos survived and did not go up in smoke like blades used to attack the Ringwraiths, then Aiglos would have ended up in Rivendell or the Grey Havens.

But to where from there? An interesting issue is what comes of Elvish heirlooms when their owner is slain and they are later brought into the West by others. Aiglos and Glamdring leap to mind and there are likely uncounted other examples. The owners of such heirlooms have likely emerged from Mandos or will do so. What then becomes of these items? Does Gil-Galad confront Elrond or Cirdan and say "Here now, thanks for holding it for me, but it's mine now..." And what happens if there is a dispute about ownership?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Rumil

I always wondered if Aiglos was more of a lance, I could imagine Gil-Galad on a splendidly caparisoned charger weilding a rather special spear, probably with a bue and white (or silver/mithril) pennon. I guess you might say this theory would fall down if he couldn't get his horse up Mount Doom, but there you go.

If I remember correctly Elves don't use saddles, & if this is the case with G-G he wouldn't have been able to use a lance ('cos any impact would have thrown him over his horse's rear end, having nothing to hold him on) - you need a saddle &, specifically, stirrups to use one. Also, Anglo-Saxon warriors for instance even up to Hastings didn't fight on horseback, merely using then to get to the battleground & then fighting on foot (This is a major difference between the A-S & the Rohirrim) so you can't assume that just because a warrior rides into battle that he fights on horseback.

All that said, Tolkien does state that G-G had a 'lance' ('His sword was long, his lance was keen') but whether this 'lance' was Aiglos or not is another question.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rumil

I always wondered if Aiglos was more of a lance, I could imagine Gil-Galad on a splendidly caparisoned charger weilding a rather special spear, probably with a bue and white (or silver/mithril) pennon. I guess you might say this theory would fall down if he couldn't get his horse up Mount Doom, but there you go.

On the other hand the spear could be dual-use, ie useful on horseback or dismounted. Certainly the Rohirrim seem to have done this and it was viable historically.

Cirdan or Elrond probably half-inched Aiglos if it survived when Big S went up in smoke, as they were the only two left with Isildur at the time (whose attention was taken by a certain shiny ring of course).

Are you talking about a lance in the traditional manner, the kind you connect with medieval turnaments?

That would be a most unpractical weapon and I have a hard time seing it becoming so renowned as the Aiglos, a "normal" spear would have more uses and be better in single combat.

Anyways, the fact that we hear nothing of the faith of Aiglos seem to point towards it being lost during the battle, even a mighty weapon like Aiglos could splintered or bent. In this battle there are three major "weapons" Aiglos, Narsil and The One Ring, we are told exactly the history of Narsil and The Ring so it would be weird if Aiglos "survived" the battle and we were told nothing about it.

[Eönwë]

The question of the horseriding is very interesting, however, in connecting to McCaber's statement:

Originally Posted by McCaber

The Grey Havens was Gil-Galad's home, so that would be a logical place to keep Aiglos, or so I think.

I think that if Aeglos/Aiglos survived, Cirdan would have it. After all, he is known to keep precious things (even though he did give one away *cough*Gandalf*cough*) and stay behind for people. He is probably the most trustworthy elf, so naturally it would go to him. Plus, Gl-Galad came from there anyway.

[ArathornJax]

Is it possible that Aeglos is more a lance/spear along the lines of the Normans? I have several books on this but found a nice entry at TheHistory.Net: British Heritage Magazine Online. It says:

Quote:
"The basic weapon of the Norman cavalry and infantry was a spear with a leaf-shaped head of iron and a wooden haft, usually of ash. The only difference visible in contemporary illustrations between infantry and cavalry spears is that infantry spears sometimes appear thicker in the haft. Both are often shown with a horizontal crossbar beneath the head, intended to prevent excessive penetration. This feature is also found on earlier Saxon and Carolingian weapons. Massed infantry could probably form a hedge of spears as protection against cavalry as they did later in the 12th century, the spear points angled forward, the haft ends resting on the ground. But this is not the usual way in which spears were used. In contemporary illustrations they are more frequently shown held above the head and wielded in a downward stabbing movement, the same technique being used against both cavalry and infantry. Using this technique the spear could be thrown when required and this would explain why in most manuscript illustrations of the 11th and 12th centuries spears would appear to be of lightweight construction.

The cavalry spear, known to us as the lance, was used in much the same way, either at arm's length, usually overarm, or couched under the arm to give greater rigidity to the weapon and force to the attack. When couched the spear would be crossed over the horse's neck right to left where it could be balanced, a technique that had the added advantage that opponents approached each other left side to left side and it was on the left side that they had the added protection of their shield. But even this added protection was not always sufficient."

The link for the article is: http://www.historynet.com/magazines/...tml?page=1&c=y

In this model Aeglos could have been not a heavy lance of the high Middle Ages, but a different type of spear more suited for the armor and weapons of the day. For me this makes a much better sense of what type of spear Aeglos was and of how GG may have used the spear both on horseback and on foot. The Normans also provide some details on the calvary tactics used by the Elves in the First Age (perhaps).

As far as where Aeglos is, by cannon we don't know. I would say the the Elves of Lindon would have returned it to Cirdan who then either kept it with him or sent it over the sea to the West.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

Normans

The only thing is, Tolkien didn't like the Normans. Remember who they killed?

But other than that sounds like a good idea, which probably would have worked.