The Nine Walkers

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Elrond was side by side with Isildur and Elendil during the Last Alliance's stand against Mordor 3,000 years before. For Denethor not to know enough lore to have heard an account of Elrond's doings during the second age against Sauron would be unthinkable. Elrond is every bit a legend as Elendil and Isildur in Middle Earth lore, and given that Denethor knows he is the wisest of all loremasters, ahead of Saruman even, he must have had other information bestowed about him, as one cannot just accept this view without a source of enormous credibility.

Originally Posted by from The Council of Elrond:

Of these words we could understand little, and we spoke to our father, Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith, wise in the lore of Gondor. This only would he say, that Imladris was of old the name among the Elves of a far northern dale, where Elrond and Halfelven dwelt, greatest of lore-masters.

It doesn't seem that Boromir had more than the vaguest clue about Elrond, and Denethor only perhaps a bit more (hence, a desperate but almost blind journey north for help). Remember, Denethor accused Faramir of being a 'wizard's pupil' and denigrated his son for studying the past. Denethor had his store of wisdom, but it was not deep. Being ensnared by Sauron when he used the Palantir (when none of the Stewards previous to him dared touch it) is proof positive that he lacked historical perspective.

Besides, based on the incontravertible evidence (representing several different views of the same point) presented by the last five posters (Eonwe, Radagastly, Man-of-the Wold, Bêthberry and myself), there was no chance of any army or Elrond himself leaving Rivendell; and, in any case, such a move would have failed.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Mansun:

Elrond was side by side with Isildur and Elendil during the Last Alliance's stand against Mordor 3,000 years before.

True enough, though I suspect any of his accomplishments were probably eclipsed in the books of lore in Minas Tirith by the presence of Gil-galad, for whom he was the herald. Especially since those books would have to have been written by Isildur:

From The Fellowship fo the Ring, The Council of Elrond:

"Alas! yes," said Elrond. "Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then int Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.

Isildur was the only man to witness the battle, and he had every reason to downplay the role of the any other Elves in whatever lore he may have written about it. He had just defied their advice to destroy the One Ring, which was already preying on his mind, based on the quote from his writing at that time spoken by Gandalf during the Council of Elrond:

and maybe were the gold made hot again, the writing would be refreshed. But for my part I will risk no hurt to this thing: of all the works of Sauron the only fair. It is precious to me, though I buy it with great pain.

In that state, he would have tried his best to keep names like "Elrond" and "Cirdan" at a minimum in any of the histories that he wrote. Such names would lead to questions. Denethor would have very little lore to go on, even if he bothered to study. As Gandalf quoted him:

But unless you have more skill even than Saruman, who has studied here long, you will find naught that is not well know to me, who am master of the lore of this City.

Yet the very next paragraph reveals that there was a great deal of lore that Denethor had never read, including the document about the Ring.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by radagastly

Yet the very next paragraph reveals that there was a great deal of lore that Denethor had never read, including the document about the Ring.

Very true. Due to his lack of research, Denethor never truly grasped the grave implications of having the Ring. He coveted it greatly (and his covetousness, nutured by the dissembling visions of Sauron in the Palantir, drew him to the straits of desperation and madness), but he did not understand its all-consuming nature, something that Faramir comprehended quite readily, and Boromir only understood as he lay dying.

Originally Posted by radagastly

Originally posted by Mansun:

True enough, though I suspect any of his accomplishments were probably eclipsed in the books of lore in Minas Tirith by the presence of Gil-galad, for whom he was the herald. Especially since those books would have to have been written by Isildur:

It appears to me that this seems to imply along with the comments of other posters, that Denethor only sent Boromir to Rivendell for the Ring, and not to seek counsel from Elrond, of whom Denethor rated higher in wisdom even than Sauron himself.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Mansun:

It appears to me that this seems to imply along with the comments of other posters, that Denethor only sent Boromir to Rivendell for the Ring, and not to seek counsel from Elrond, of whom Denethor rated higher in wisdom even than Sauron himself.

I would agree this was the motive in the movie, especially the Extended Edition, but this quote from The Council of Elrond seems to imply otherwise (at least for the book):

At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. "So that is what became of the Ring!" he cried. "If ever such a tale was told in the South, it has long been forgotten. I have heard of the Great Ring of him that we do not name; but we believed that it perished from the world in the ruin of his first realm. Isildur took it! That is tidings indeed."

Boromir, at least, seems genuinely surprised that the Ring still even exists. Looking through The Return of the King doesn't seem to reveal any indication that Denethor knew any more about it than his elder son. Even the Palantir of Minas Tirith did not seem to find any news of it (and a good thing too, since Sauron would have probably then spotted it as well, and Frodo would probably never have reached Cirith Ungol, much less Orodruin.)

I suspect that Denethor did not send Boromir to Rivendell so much as relent and permit him to go:

Loth was my father to give me leave, and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.

[MatthewM]

radagastly is right. Boromir pressed Denethor to even let him go on the errand. Boromir wanted the meaning of a riddle, not the Ring until he saw it.

[Gordis]

Boromir wanted "the Sword that was broken" - I guess he knew which one it was all right.
But even more he wanted "a token stronger than Morgul spells" whatever it might be.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Boromir .....
But even more he wanted "a token stronger than Morgul spells" whatever it might be.

What about Gandalf's staff? More deadly than any weapon . . .