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Old 09-10-2008, 01:58 PM   #1
Morthoron
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I understand what you're saying, Legate; however, for Gandalf to meekly surrender to Saruman makes little sense to me. Frodo was in danger, and the Ring was in peril, for the Nazgul were abroad in the Shire. It was not a time to be genteel and polite (particularly since a little bit later he was blowing up Weathertop, shooting lightning at the Nazgul).
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #2
Legate of Amon Lanc
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Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
I understand what you're saying, Legate; however, for Gandalf to meekly surrender to Saruman makes little sense to me. Frodo was in danger, and the Ring was in peril, for the Nazgul were abroad in the Shire. It was not a time to be genteel and polite (particularly since a little bit later he was blowing up Weathertop, shooting lightning at the Nazgul).
Well yes. To start from the end: Nazgul and such are in a bit of special position in LotR, because they have no own will and are merely "evil", so you don't really approach the approach towards them the same... although I could speak even to this, but that's for different topic and there are threads about it. Just to point out, on the other hand, Gandalf pities "even [Sauron's] slaves".

Anyway, the main point. It's not a question of being polite or whatever. I agree with you that sure the situation was grave. But Gandalf knew, at the very moment when Saruman made his proposal, that there's no way he is letting him go willingly. He had the option to attack Saruman. And he didn't, I say. Also there's the evidence of the books as I quoted, which I think to be quite convincing.

Also, note, Gandalf didn't "surrender". He still opposed Saruman. He only didn't use power to oppose him.

The only disadvantage of Gandalf was that he couldn't send any message to Frodo. But the battle for Middle-Earth did not rely solely on Gandalf. He was still but one person among many, if you forget the "heroic colorite". He was aware of that. I think he did not consider his own freedom important to the point that he would dare to start with Saruman. We are not in a computer RPG or a cliché-ish action movie, where the "hero" shoots through hordes of bad guys to get out of the prison. And besides that, as Gandalf himself says on the Council, he still had the hope the Ring will get into safety even without his help, because he left the letter for Frodo (although it showed bad because of Butterbur's sclerosis, but he didn't know at the time).

But okay, if I put it into the extreme: The Ring was in danger. Frodo was in danger. The option before Gandalf was this: either leaving Frodo in possible danger and remain in Orthanc, or going to help him (not even necessarily save him) but at that moment unavoidably causing a confrontation which could very likely end up with somebody's death. I think Mr. G. would pick the first option. "...For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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