Tol-in-Gaurhoth Threefold and Six: The Night Guard - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kitanna · 09-01-2009, 01:46 PM

I don't have the time toDay to read everything I've missed. But my guard vote won't be totally random. I was going to vote to guard Mnemo, but since she stirred up a lot of discussion she doesn't seem a likely Night 2 kill. Rather I'd like to guard one of those who haven't spoken yet. These sorts are usually kills early on because they leave no trail for the villagers. So that leaves Hakon and alonariel as the only two who have yet to say anything.

++Guard Hakon

alonariel gave a reason for being absent, but Hakon has said nothing.

Shastanis Althreduin · 09-01-2009, 01:53 PM

So we should reward him?

Anyway, I have to vote now. Thought about voting Mnemo, but that seemed too much like penalizing her for an original thought, so I'm going to

++Lommy

and

++Legate.

Nienna · 09-01-2009, 01:59 PM

I have absolutely no idea who to vote for for either the guard or the lynch.

We are down to 2 hours before deadline I believe.

I'm going to go back through and see if I can dig up anything. No one is really setting off my radar or screaming wolf at me. Mnemo's plan was a little out there but it would be a really risky wolf move and I don't know if she is a risky wolf or not.

Edit: x-ed since Shasta

Kitanna · 09-01-2009, 02:09 PM

I have about seven minutes to get back to work.

I've been mulling over the thread, trying to find something/someone who jumps out.

Mnemo and Wilwa both jumped out initially, but neither one feels particularly wicked. Of other, more vocal players, no one has said anything of note that I find over whelming suspicious. The only things I've seen that worried me are Mnemo's vote for Wilwa, but I think that's probably a time constraint thing, and then there's Brinn's vote for McCaber. She stated her vote would be somewhat random, but it surprises me she would pick someone who hadn't yet posted.

But I'm down to the wire and have to vote now. I will be more active on Day 2 because work doesn't fall on the deadline that day.

++Brinn

Kinda random, I don't care that she voted randomly for McCaber. That's something I would do, but she gave a reason that "he wasn't contributing" and that doesn't seem right to me. Granted my own reasons for voting Brinn aren't much better. However, I am at a loss for a real suspect.

Boromir88 · 09-01-2009, 02:13 PM

What's the reasoning behind Legate being someone we should guard again? Sorry, just not getting it.

Nienna · 09-01-2009, 02:16 PM

I'm open to guarding Mnemo because then we can see if her early plan for the gifteds to come out is furry or not. She might get my vote seeing as there is not really a person who I believe needs protecting toNight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro

You've got a smart mind, have some confidence and trust it.

Thanks dear!

Boromir88 · 09-01-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nienna

I'm open to guarding Mnemo because then we can see if her early plan for the gifteds to come out is furry or not. She might get my vote seeing as there is not really a person who I believe needs protecting toNight.

Funnily enough I may put in my lynch vote before my guard vote. It's almost like with a guard-vote my honor is at stake.

satansaloser2005 · 09-01-2009, 02:27 PM

Lynch:
Nilp-->Nilp
Mnemo-->Wilwa
Brinn-->Cabbie
Nerwen-->Kit
Shasta-->Lommie
Kit-->Brinn

Guard:
Mnemo-->Boro
Brinn-->Legate
Sally-->Mnemo
Nerwen-->Legate
Kit-->Hakon
Shasta-->Legate (3)

Now we've got one on this page too. (Okay, so I'm trying to be helpful and cluttering up the thread. Shoot me.

)

EDIT: x'd with Noggins

Boromir88 · 09-01-2009, 02:32 PM

++Kitanna

Thought her reactions to Mnemo earlier in the day were suspicious, as well as her lynch-vote for Brinn. How is it that Brinn always seems to get herself in trouble...even when she actively tries to avoid it? Must be frustrating.

And I will guard

++Nienna

tonight.

satansaloser2005 · 09-01-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our lord and master....erm, I mean the mayor

I will mention that there was a save.

So....hmmmm, I shall think further about my 'plan'. This definitely makes it more plausible, though.

A Little Green · 09-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boro

Possibly, but would you say a wolf would continue to defend the idea, and argue for it, even after many people expressed their disagreements with it?

Probably not, I agree, and I'm feeling ok about Mnemo at the moment, but at that moment she hadn't defended her idea that much.

I'll vote soon and be off to bed. I don't have much on anyone except Nog, to be honest, dunno why since he hasn't been the most vocal toDay or anything, he just keeps saying stuff that rubs me the wrong way. Like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nog

An intelligent guy like him talking against the revealment-plan from totally weird angles that had nothing to do with the reality we're facing. To be honest it looked like "let's torpedo this plan with whatever I can come up with" - and failing...

I don't like the way he mixes intelligence and opinion - like, if someone has an opinion that differs from his own it means the person is not behaving according to his/her level of intelligence and is therefore playing more stupid than s/he actually is ergo is suspicious. A lack of tolerance for differing opinions isn't something an ordo can afford, and that is why Nog's argument makes me think he might be one of our baddies.

Am I sure of his being a wolf? No I'm not. BUT I'm more suspicious of him than I believe I've ever been of anyone on Day1. So, unless miracles happen, I'll lynch-vote Nogrod toDay. I haven't given much thought to my guard-vote as yet.

EDIT: x-ed with Sally, Boro and Noggers

satansaloser2005 · 09-01-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

What's the reasoning behind Legate being someone we should guard again? Sorry, just not getting it.

*shrug* Me neither, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

excessive babbling

EDIT: Oh my! Since when you all started to post?

Nog, I love you and your brainy brain. Heh. That is all.

EDIT: x'd since Nog

satansaloser2005 · 09-01-2009, 02:20 PM

Also, keep in mind with this guarding thing, even if we guard Outstanding Citizen X, the wolves will still get two kills, just not the two they might have preferred. So don't necessarily think only about who you think would be killed, but also who you would like to keep around, whether you think they'd be attacked or not. (Aka guard me!!!!! I've not survived a game in ages! Besides the last one, and that was just rubbish on my part anyway.

) Also, keep in mind what I said earlier about suspects. We don't have to go that way and I won't press for it, but you're not just keeping someone from dying, you're keeping them from possibly killing too.

Pitchwife · 09-01-2009, 02:49 PM

Sally, I think we can safely rule out Kit speculating on actually getting a majority for her Guard Hakon vote when there are several much more promising candidates around. Looks a little bit like a throwaway vote on her part.

Just a little addition to Nogrod's Wittgenstein post (have you been studying with Mac?

):
Actually, all objections that have been and can be raised against Mnemo's plan apply equally to any other game. The Seer, once revealed, is always in danger, as is the Ranger (wow - that rhymed!). A fake reveal (or counter-reveal) by the wolves is always possible. The only, and crucial, difference with this game is that we have a chance to minimize (or at least reduce) the danger to our gifteds in a way that many other villages could only dream of.
But as I and many others have already said ad nauseam, the Seer will (and should) do as the Seer sees fit.

Nog's explanation about Legate satisfies me for now, but I'd still like to hear Legate himself.

EDIT: x-ed with Sally. Shiny indeed!

A Little Green · 09-01-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noggery-Nog

So I'll just make my "deductions" from these premises in a fairly normal post in a short while...

Is that a promise?

Nogrod · 09-01-2009, 02:26 PM

I think I may be able to answer to you both Pitch and Greenie... Just a moment. Your points do converge even if they come from quite different angles.

Nogrod · 09-01-2009, 02:41 PM

Okay. Why am I bothered with Legate?

Well first he went forcibly against "the plan" basing it on a ridiculous idea that the ranger would have to reveal her/himself for us to execute it and putting her/himself on danger as well - thus making it look like a very dangerous plan for the innocents. He's intelligent enough to understand there is no reason for the ranger to reveal her/himself. That's not a difference of opinion.

Secondly he continued that same thing in his next post still. But soon he turned his wheels saying it would be "unfair" towards the wolves to use the plan...

I just don't trust him right now. It looks like he was trying to shoot the idea down in the earlier hours on the basis of it being too dangerous for the innocents but then went on opposing the idea on totally the opposite point of view eg. saying it would be too easy a win for the innocents...

And anyway that plan would be neither. It has its' risks and its' advantages. And no one can know beforehand what would happen if we sticked to it.

And what comes to Boro asking about this "protect Legate" bandwagon, I must say I'm as much at loss with it as you are, but could jump on it to save one of us the next Night with one wolf not able to kill...

I mean that indirect knowledge toMorrow might be valuable indeed as I'm not sure I'd be ready to call for lynching Legate for these grounds even if I do suspect him at the moment.

Or it might even be direct knowledge!

If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...

satansaloser2005 · 09-01-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier...

See? I am in fact useful sometimes!

That's the part I forgot to mention actually, though I'm sure you all realized it already. If we do at some point guard a suspect (and there are four wolves) if there are still two kills we know that person is innocent. So really it's like we've got an extra seer dream (sort of) every Night until we kill a wolf. Shiny, yes?

Nogrod · 09-01-2009, 02:51 PM

That was an interesting thought indeed!

So as long as we have four wolves and two possible Night-kills and we manage to protect an innocent ending up with two kills performed during the Night, we know the one we protected as a village is innocent. If the seer doesn't come out that makes it easier for the ranger to spot the right people to protect the next Night (and us not to lynch on the next Day) - and in a sense the mechanics work like us as a community working as seers together.

So with no further babbling...

++ guard Legate

EDIT: X'd from Sally on... and agreeing with her as is obvious.

Pitchwife · 09-01-2009, 01:59 PM

Kit, just when I've reluctantly decided you're my prime suspect, you have to say something I can see sense in (even if I don't agree)!*sigh*
You forgot McCaber, by the way. (Cancel that - he just showed up.)

Nog, while I agree that Legate seems to have missed some points in his early posts, which of his angles do you find blatantly weird and out of touch with reality? Asking because it might help me to clarify my own impression of him.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro; applause, applause!
And sorry for forgetting Nilp in my earlier list, but he seems to be just in character, both in- and meta-gamewise, so nothing to go on.

09-01-2009, 01:46 PM	#1
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I don't have the time toDay to read everything I've missed. But my guard vote won't be totally random. I was going to vote to guard Mnemo, but since she stirred up a lot of discussion she doesn't seem a likely Night 2 kill. Rather I'd like to guard one of those who haven't spoken yet. These sorts are usually kills early on because they leave no trail for the villagers. So that leaves Hakon and alonariel as the only two who have yet to say anything. ++Guard Hakon alonariel gave a reason for being absent, but Hakon has said nothing. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

09-01-2009, 01:53 PM	#2
Shastanis Althreduin Werewolf Psychic Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: In fire, water, earth, and air. But mostly water. Posts: 2,832	So we should reward him? Anyway, I have to vote now. Thought about voting Mnemo, but that seemed too much like penalizing her for an original thought, so I'm going to ++Lommy and ++Legate. __________________ Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV

09-01-2009, 01:59 PM	#3
Nienna Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: School Posts: 642	I have absolutely no idea who to vote for for either the guard or the lynch. We are down to 2 hours before deadline I believe. I'm going to go back through and see if I can dig up anything. No one is really setting off my radar or screaming wolf at me. Mnemo's plan was a little out there but it would be a really risky wolf move and I don't know if she is a risky wolf or not. Edit: x-ed since Shasta __________________ Puddle! Puddle!

09-01-2009, 02:09 PM	#4
Kitanna Child of the West Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn Posts: 2,132	I have about seven minutes to get back to work. I've been mulling over the thread, trying to find something/someone who jumps out. Mnemo and Wilwa both jumped out initially, but neither one feels particularly wicked. Of other, more vocal players, no one has said anything of note that I find over whelming suspicious. The only things I've seen that worried me are Mnemo's vote for Wilwa, but I think that's probably a time constraint thing, and then there's Brinn's vote for McCaber. She stated her vote would be somewhat random, but it surprises me she would pick someone who hadn't yet posted. But I'm down to the wire and have to vote now. I will be more active on Day 2 because work doesn't fall on the deadline that day. ++Brinn Kinda random, I don't care that she voted randomly for McCaber. That's something I would do, but she gave a reason that "he wasn't contributing" and that doesn't seem right to me. Granted my own reasons for voting Brinn aren't much better. However, I am at a loss for a real suspect. __________________ "Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

09-01-2009, 02:13 PM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	What's the reasoning behind Legate being someone we should guard again? Sorry, just not getting it. __________________ Fenris Penguin

09-01-2009, 02:27 PM	#8
satansaloser2005 The Sweetest Spoiler Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly Posts: 5,789	Lynch: Nilp-->Nilp Mnemo-->Wilwa Brinn-->Cabbie Nerwen-->Kit Shasta-->Lommie Kit-->Brinn Guard: Mnemo-->Boro Brinn-->Legate Sally-->Mnemo Nerwen-->Legate Kit-->Hakon Shasta-->Legate (3) Now we've got one on this page too. (Okay, so I'm trying to be helpful and cluttering up the thread. Shoot me. ) EDIT: x'd with Noggins __________________ "My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.

09-01-2009, 02:32 PM	#9
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	++Kitanna Thought her reactions to Mnemo earlier in the day were suspicious, as well as her lynch-vote for Brinn. How is it that Brinn always seems to get herself in trouble...even when she actively tries to avoid it? Must be frustrating. And I will guard ++Nienna tonight. __________________ Fenris Penguin

09-01-2009, 02:20 PM	#13
satansaloser2005 The Sweetest Spoiler Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly Posts: 5,789	Also, keep in mind with this guarding thing, even if we guard Outstanding Citizen X, the wolves will still get two kills, just not the two they might have preferred. So don't necessarily think only about who you think would be killed, but also who you would like to keep around, whether you think they'd be attacked or not. (Aka guard me!!!!! I've not survived a game in ages! Besides the last one, and that was just rubbish on my part anyway.) Also, keep in mind what I said earlier about suspects. We don't have to go that way and I won't press for it, but you're not just keeping someone from dying, you're keeping them from possibly killing too. __________________ "My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.

09-01-2009, 02:49 PM	#14
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Sally, I think we can safely rule out Kit speculating on actually getting a majority for her Guard Hakon vote when there are several much more promising candidates around. Looks a little bit like a throwaway vote on her part. Just a little addition to Nogrod's Wittgenstein post (have you been studying with Mac?): Actually, all objections that have been and can be raised against Mnemo's plan apply equally to any other game. The Seer, once revealed, is always in danger, as is the Ranger (wow - that rhymed!). A fake reveal (or counter-reveal) by the wolves is always possible. The only, and crucial, difference with this game is that we have a chance to minimize (or at least reduce) the danger to our gifteds in a way that many other villages could only dream of. But as I and many others have already said ad nauseam, the Seer will (and should) do as the Seer sees fit. Nog's explanation about Legate satisfies me for now, but I'd still like to hear Legate himself. EDIT: x-ed with Sally. Shiny indeed! __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

09-01-2009, 02:26 PM	#16
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I think I may be able to answer to you both Pitch and Greenie... Just a moment. Your points do converge even if they come from quite different angles. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

09-01-2009, 02:41 PM	#17
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Okay. Why am I bothered with Legate? Well first he went forcibly against "the plan" basing it on a ridiculous idea that the ranger would have to reveal her/himself for us to execute it and putting her/himself on danger as well - thus making it look like a very dangerous plan for the innocents. He's intelligent enough to understand there is no reason for the ranger to reveal her/himself. That's not a difference of opinion. Secondly he continued that same thing in his next post still. But soon he turned his wheels saying it would be "unfair" towards the wolves to use the plan... I just don't trust him right now. It looks like he was trying to shoot the idea down in the earlier hours on the basis of it being too dangerous for the innocents but then went on opposing the idea on totally the opposite point of view eg. saying it would be too easy a win for the innocents... And anyway that plan would be neither. It has its' risks and its' advantages. And no one can know beforehand what would happen if we sticked to it. And what comes to Boro asking about this "protect Legate" bandwagon, I must say I'm as much at loss with it as you are, but could jump on it to save one of us the next Night with one wolf not able to kill... I mean that indirect knowledge toMorrow might be valuable indeed as I'm not sure I'd be ready to call for lynching Legate for these grounds even if I do suspect him at the moment. Or it might even be direct knowledge! If we protect Legate and there are two kills we know he's an innocent! Interesting... I hadn't thought of that earlier... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

09-01-2009, 02:51 PM	#19
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	That was an interesting thought indeed! So as long as we have four wolves and two possible Night-kills and we manage to protect an innocent ending up with two kills performed during the Night, we know the one we protected as a village is innocent. If the seer doesn't come out that makes it easier for the ranger to spot the right people to protect the next Night (and us not to lynch on the next Day) - and in a sense the mechanics work like us as a community working as seers together. So with no further babbling... ++ guard Legate EDIT: X'd from Sally on... and agreeing with her as is obvious. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

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