TIG LXIX: Meeting at the House of Usher

[Nogrod]

Do you want to see my "I don't like..." list?

Well, wish it or not, here it comes.

I don't like the way Greenie plays on D1 nor on D2. That vote for me felt just malice-driven then. She knows how I play but didn't give any good explanation for her vote; toDay she continued repeating some off-the-mark things on me and said she would like to make a few questions on me to judge me better (which she never did, so trying to look good only?) - but she didn't make a single notice on what I answered her (and others) on those initial suggestions. On the contrary she acted like I had said nothing to answer her doubts and only dismissed voting me on the grounds that it's not too good to stick with D1 suspicions only. And I can see a scenario where she didn't want to vote me again for the reason that I might actully focus my attention to her this time for good - and now with some reasons backing my possible vote which some others might follow.

I don't like the way Fea keeps herself over and above the actual debate. The poems and the "novellettes" are fine and entertaining but the substance is greatly lacking. I might vote her just for the frustration, but her vote yesterDay was actually quite suspicious. Many of you have said you wouldn't "put it past Fea" to make such an openly gay nailing vote on an innocent. I would say I would be surprised if she would have handled the situation differently were she a wolf...

I don't like the ever larger compartment of submarines we have around. Whatever Sally's role is, her last post is indicative of the situation... She managed to mention a handful of people: one who stood out because of poetry, another because of voting for her and four because they have been the most vocal... So there the submarines will keep diving under any radar...

I don't like some bandwagonish / easy-going votes from yesterDay and the subsequent silence toDay, mainly Lottie, Sally and Lari...

I don't like McCaber's calculative submarine-approach.

[Roa_Aoife]

I agree with you about Fea, Nogrod. She hasn't been helpful at all, and I would say she's basically not even playing.

Right now, I am seriously considering voting for Fea. My other choice at the moment is Greenie. Her comment about me and Nogrod was forced, and her vote for Sally is too easy, and lacking in any actual reasons.

[Nogrod]

To supply you with my "I'm uneasy with..." list as well.

I'm uneasy with Roa who behaves too civilly towards me. Her explanation on her "Borolysis" made sense but I'd presume she would be able to come up with one if forced to do it...

I'm uneasy with Spm as I see him grasping at straws at times and being so very reasonable at others (and I mean it - he can be very reasonable & reasoned indeed). Also his change of style is remarkable: from the early game (and I don't mean only the "banter phase") confusion-monger and wannabe-contactor he has turned back into a decent and reasonable player; after he was suspected of being the cobbler by enough many players and as the bear died. Although I'm not sure he is a wolf, but a cobbler maybe? (I have still not forgotten that possible Greenie - Spm link possibility which they have nicely turned into a chatter toDay)

I'm uneasy with Pitchie because he seems soo reasonable and uncontroversial. You have just enough initiative that no one can say you just follow others but you are also very careful not to arouse any suspicion.

I'm uneasy with Brinn and wilwa, both of whom I know can be real killers when needed but have been quite quiet so far.


Well, a familiar position: I distrust you all. If I'd have to name one innocentish person it would be Nerwen.

[Roa_Aoife]

Nice to see you involved, Fea.

I think the lovers haven't been discussed for an obvious reason: we don't have to kill them to win, and they really pose very little threat to us. If one of them dies, the other gets a free kill, but that's a big if. Their best bet is to play on the villages side.

So are you saying that it really doesn't matter what Boromir thought, since he was probably just a safe kill, if not killed for being the bear?

Then who do you think is suspicious?

And maybe we don't have a problem with your style, dear, but I for one resent doing all the work while you sit back and benefit from it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Roa

And maybe we don't have a problem with your style, dear, but I for one resent doing all the work while you sit back and benefit from it.

Clearly you aren't a proponent of socialism.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Before my last post becomes a problem (if in fact it does), I'd like to apologize for any offense it might cause. It's intended as a joke, relating to the way Roa phrased her last comment, not as a slight on anybody's political leanings.

That being said, expecting people not to be opportunists in terms of letting a few people do all the talking and/or analysis is silly. More than half the players sit back and let other people do the hard work.

[Nogrod]

Looking soo much better Fea - well not as poetical, but anyway.

Although I must say it's not too particular...

And your view of socialism is just weird.

Originally Posted by Pitchie

Greenie's stated reason for voting Nog yesterDay, other than retaliating, was 'because he makes weak reasons sound big'. Going through his early posts yesterDay (before she first said this) I could find only two points to which she may have referred, other than his suspecting her to be the Bear

I hoped I wouldn't have to come back to this anymore but it seems I have to as you brought it up once again and I'm going to sleep soon.

I think I said it yesterDay already that I had read the thread up to a point (5PM my time or something) and three people had roused my attention: Greenie, Spm and Roa - that far. Then coming home I looked at their posting with the eye of "if they were baddies how would you explain these posts"? And as you all know I ended up with the decision none was a case good enough to vote for them on D1.

If everyone did that on Day1 (really tried to look for the baddies laying points on them) the Day1's would be real opportunities to lynch a wolf instead of easy hunker-down bandwagons that seem to hit gifteds and innocents more often than the wolves (because the wolves know who to vote). It's pretty frustrating to be the only one (well, one of the few) to actually try something on D1 and get load of X from that.

Or maybe people have different standards on what makes a "big case" or a "well-reasoned suspicion"? To me those I made yesterDay were not ones of that category, but something worth mentioning as I couldn't be sure I'm alive toDay to voice those suspicions - however inconclusive they are as they are only D1 suspicions.


Okay. Needs to check the Mead Hall and process my vote in my head meanwhile...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And your view of socialism is just weird.

Actually, I'm totally into it. But I shouldn't have mentioned it, since there's the risk that a comment that could be made with a wink and a cheeky grin at a cocktail party won't carry the same connotations that a blithe written remark can.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I shouldn't have mentioned it, since there's the risk that a comment that could be made with a wink and a cheeky grin at a cocktail party won't carry the same connotations that a blithe written remark can.

Don't you worry. The comes near enough...

[Pitchwife]

So, Fea, you've finally pastiched your way through the poems and tales to Heureka. I'm duly impressed. Nice analysis of the situation. Now what about applying it?

Originally Posted by Fea

My theory: as a village, we should concentrate on two groups:
1) those who appear to be working together
2) those who appear to be invisible

I think we all have an idea who falls under 2). What about 1)? Who do you think looks like they're working together?

[Pitchwife]

Nog, in answer to your #231:
I went back through your posts in order to find out for myself what Greenie was actually talking about and whether she had a point or not. Conclusion: I can see where she was coming from, but her voting you because you exaggerated what she thought weak reasons for suspicion (but as you say, and as I said, it was Day 1, hence the '?' at the end of my post) seems somewhat exaggerated as well.
Now what do I think of the two of you? I don't quite share your strong suspicion of Greenie, but I still remember she fooled me to the end two games ago, so I'm wary. And I don't find you that suspicious either, but I haven't yet played with you when you were a wolf, so I'm wary I might overlook the signs.
Darn, being too uncontroversial again...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't like the way Fea keeps herself over and above the actual debate.

Why should I interject? You're all doing a wonderful job for me. I'd just get in the way...

To summarize the thoughts de ustedes, which extrapolate on my thoughts:

Borangutan clearly thought one or both of two things: Hakon was the seer, or Hakon was an easy target because everyone was irked that he wouldn't shut his gob about meta.

The more interesting question is why the wolves picked Borangutan, and my guess is that they were thinking one or both of two things: Borangutan was Were-ape (as evidenced by Hakon's commentary), or Borangutan was an easy target.

As far as wolves would be concerned on a Night 2 kill, it doesn't really matter who dies, since everybody's got to go.

The wolves' greatest enemies would be, respectively, the Bear and the Seer. Yes, the Seer can identify, and that's bad, but the Bear can kill somebody each night, and that includes wolves. Wolves have enough worry during the day keeping their pack alive. Add to that the threat of random death at night?

And don't tell me the wolves aren't threatened by a Werebear. The Bear's greatest threat is the wolfpack. It's fairly easy to stay under the radar during the day, whereas at Night, you don't have any say in what happens to you. Yes, the Bear wants people to die at a rapid pace, but as long as one Wolf is alive, you get two kills per Night. The Bear can't win without killing the Wolves, and multiple Wolves (obviously) outnumbers one Bear. It's in the Bear's best interest to kill wolves early so that when it's down to the wire, the Bear is the only one making night kills.

That being said, the Bear is the wolves' great threat because the logical behavior of the Bear is to start sniping wolves.

Therefore if the wolves thought Hakon had found Borangutan, they'd want to kill him while they had the chance, before one of them died.

Therefore, Hakon died either because he was too damned obvious, or too damned annoying, and Boro died either because Hakon was too damned obvious, or the wolves wanted a trail-less kill. Conversation over, and since following the lead of the Seer doesn't really lead back to the wolves so much as it shows that they're paying attention, let's look to the future.

The Ranger can no longer guard two Nights in a row, and there is nobody that stands out right now in terms of needing to be guarded, since most of the 'important' players peaced out already. Without the Hunter and the Seer, the Ranger is left to protect innocents. All of whom seem just about as innocent as the wolves. So I'm viewing tonight as a crapshoot in terms of protection/killing. Odds are in the wolves' favor of getting who they want, and odds are equally in the Ranger's favor of protecting who they pick. Summarized: it's unlikely the Ranger and the Wolves will go after the same person, so most likely somebody's going to die toNight.

The Lovers have not really been discussed, which I think is an unfortunate oversight given the fact that by their very definition they don't care if the village wins, only if they win. Also, it should be born in mind that there are currently two players in constant Daily communication. The question to ask is if the Lovers have the village's best interest at heart.

And then there's the Cobbler. Who obviously doesn't have the village's best interest at heart, and could be anybody, but based on the number of people (self included) drawing the attention of the crowd, it's probably somebody playing reindeer games until they're needed.

My theory: as a village, we should concentrate on two groups:

1) those who appear to be working together

2) those who appear to be invisible

Originally Posted by Roa

I agree with you about Fea, Nogrod. She hasn't been helpful at all, and I would say she's basically not even playing.

Wrong. I'm just not playing the way you think I should be. And when you're the mod, your opinion will matter.