WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Bes]

The role Nog is describing does seem very awkward, yes. The point where it all falls apart for me is pretty basic: If that were the role, why would she ever reveal that she was a Birthday Dreamer when she could as easily claim to be a regular old Seer, and just hadn't found a wolf yet? She and most everyone else were already pretty confident about Pitch by that point, it would more or less be a done deal.

I understand that she'd have become suspicious after that and around Day 7 or 8 it would be hard for her to claim that she hadn't found a new wolf yet, but it would be better than telling us she was a Birthday Dreamer, which would imply to us that if she was right, she would be a new wolf herself. I think the role works just like she told us it does. Well, barring some wicked reverse psychology and assuming that no one could look up the role.

Edit: Crossed with Boro

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Bes

The role Nog is describing does seem very awkward, yes. The point where it all falls apart for me is pretty basic: If that were the role, why would she ever reveal that she was a Birthday Dreamer when she could as easily claim to be a regular old Seer, and just hadn't found a wolf yet? She and most everyone else were already pretty confident about Pitch by that point, it would more or less be a done deal.

I understand that she'd have become suspicious after that and around Day 7 or 8 it would be hard for her to claim that she hadn't found a new wolf yet, but it would be better than telling us she was a Birthday Dreamer, which would imply to us that if she was right, she would be a new wolf herself. I think the role works just like she told us it does. Well, barring some wicked reverse psychology and assuming that no one could look up the role.

Now there's a sudden change of tune about Lottie!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Now there's a sudden change of tune about Lottie!

Before I jump the gun, I guess it would be wise to realize I've also just had a sudden change of tune about Lottie too and to think about Nog's concerns more. But Bes goes from voting for her, and trying to discredit her, to defending.

[Bes]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Now there's a sudden change of tune about Lottie!

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=671

Not that sudden. Pitch was a wolf, which implies that I was wrong about Lottie. Suspecting her at this point doesn't seem to make much sense. Anyway, if "Birthday Dreamer" isn't a real role and could mean anything, then yes my argument does fall apart. I'm going to run off and see if I can find a guide on roles, now, because this is getting ridiculous.

Edit: Crossed with Boro again.

[Bes]

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...0&postcount=29

Well I'll be damned.

Edit: I realize that it's Nog both there and here, but it's not like he's making it up just now for our benefit. It's been said before.
Edit2: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=465
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpos...&postcount=643

So, where does that put us now?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Bes

The role Nog is describing does seem very awkward, yes. The point where it all falls apart for me is pretty basic: If that were the role, why would she ever reveal that she was a Birthday Dreamer when she could as easily claim to be a regular old Seer, and just hadn't found a wolf yet? She and most everyone else were already pretty confident about Pitch by that point, it would more or less be a done deal.

First of all claiming to be a regular seer would have been really dangerous as people would have wanted some names, basically on Day-to-Day basis. Of course a wolf could give you an innocent - even a mate as an innocent - every Day (and claim that every single person she had dreamt thus far had been killed or lynched already - which would be a bit eyebrow-raising as itself), but looking at the end-game there might have been some serious problems for the wolves, especially if the ranger got a hold of the game and started succesfully denying the wolves.

Secondly I think it would be highly unlikely a "secret role" would have been a normal seer role. That would have been even more an anticlimax than just a "one Night's seer" (which I honestly find an improbable and odd role).

Thirdly it might very well be that when she had to come up with this "one Night seer" -role to hide her real role she wished to give it a name - and named it with the name Legate had given her, her not knowing the ancestry of the role named thus (and Legate might be a person who studied history when using names on roles - the sad thing being I only remember it was thus... I'll try to find it but it might be quite laborious to find; so anyone who remembers the Birthday dreamer role accurately, please come forwards!).

Okay, I admit we're again walking the thin line between meta-reasons and in-game reasons, but as she actually said herself in this thread:

Originally Posted by Lottie

If it helps, Legate called the role the ,,birthday dreamer'' (with the funny commas and everything) and I was forbidden to reveal on Day 1.

I don't feel too bad pointing at it...


EDIT: X'd with Bes & Brinn (good to see you trying to find the thing Bes... didn't you find anythnig more on it? - Okay I'll give it a try as well)

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay, I admit we're again walking the thin line between meta-reasons and in-game reasons, but as she actually said herself in this thread: I don't feel too bad pointing at it...

I don't think so, we're trying to figure out the specifics of a certain role. Obviously he's not going to come in and confirm whether you are right or not, but if he expects us to stand pat and not try to figure out what his secret-role was, than he should never have created a secret one. (No offense met Legate, I'm just against stiff meta-reasoning muzzles, it verges on reminding me of PC, which often causes the death of history and historical context ).