WW LXXX: It's About Time!

[Pitchwife]

Some thoughts about sally (admittedly fragmentary, not even attempting a full analysis of our Queen of the Post Count):

Her strange insistence on Day 3 that

Originally Posted by sally#221

either Eomer or Greenie HAS to be a wolf

has already been commented on. Granted that Eomer looked a lot furrier after Greenie was revealed as innocent, the way he'd been after her, but given that sally supported Greenie's lynch, and supposing she was Eomer's packmate, she would have planned ahead and prepared to distance herself from him afterwards, wouldn't she?

Her almost-fake-reveal yesterDay just before DL (#374) looks very much like an attempt by an innocent to protect the seer by baiting the wolf to kill her instead... only the pun about 'baited breath' in her post-DL post #381 undoes it. And a wolf trying to make herself look good would of course have known she wasn't really in danger to get killed.

Then there's her first post of toDay, the farewell to skip, which is very sallyish, only, I don't know, somehow a bit overdone in it's tear-drowned way of saying "Of course I knew he was the seer all along, I so would have liked to save him (only I didn't), I'll avenge him", read: "I'm so totally obviously not the one who killed him." Looks forced to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lottie, apparently, began yesterDay convinced that Eomer was a big bad wolf (which he was) and prepared to plant the idea that I'm his packmate (which I'm not), starting the 'Mr Agreeable' routine with #271. But when skip voted Eomer, her reaction was

Originally Posted by Lottie #373

But I still don't know why you're pressing this.

in answer to this:

Originally Posted by skip#370

No dammit, lynch Eomer, ergo my vote!

So did she really not understand why he was pressing to lynch the one who had been her her own main suspect for the last two days? Or was she trying to force him to reveal explicitly so the last wolf would know who to kill?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Agan's defense of Eomer yesterDay, and her continued cobbler-hunt for skip are a strong point against her. As for the latter, I think it entirely possible that Aganwolf could have used the accusation of cobblery as a pretense to get an innocent lynched, even if she had no idea he was the seer. As for the former, I wonder - there must have been a predictable chance yesterDay that Eomer would get lynched, given that he was heavily suspected, so wouldn't it have made more sense for a packmate to distance herself from him?
If she's the cobbler, by the way, her support of me is sadly (or luckily) misguided.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, Nerwen. I'm not sure that one comment by skip is sufficient evidence to clear her as a dreamed innocent - but I've got nothing on her, and I'm running out of time.


So, where is everybody? I haven't got all night.

EDIT: x-ed with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So did she really not understand why he was pressing to lynch the one who had been her her own main suspect for the last two days? Or was she trying to force him to reveal explicitly so the last wolf would know who to kill?

You mean, did I really not understand what the hey was going on, but it seemed like it was going on in a good way, so I went with it anyway? Yup. That's about what happened. I figured it out a minute after DL, when I went, "ohhhhhhhhh...derp."

[Pitchwife]

Really, Lottie, is that the best you can do? I suspected Eomer heavily enough to vote him based on that exchange, and you disqualify it as slight suspicion/banter? Obviously our ideas of stylistic register are vastly different... or you're twisting it to fit.

[Pitchwife]

And what makes you so sure skip didn't dream sally? Just because he didn't suspect her yesterDay? It might have been a good idea to check somebody he didn't suspect, just in case - I've done it myself as the seer, to make sure I wasn't overlooking something.
There's something going on between the two of you...

EDIT: x-ed with Agan; this is addressed to Lottie.

[Aganzir]

Once again: we have no way of knowing if skip suspected sally or not. Maybe not at the end of the day, but he had a lot of time to think of whom to dream of. If I was a wolf and thought somebody was a wolf, I'd totally try to buddy up with them before killing them. If I was the seer and saw somebody was trying to buddy up with me, I'd get suspicious.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Agan

She never lynches the one she thinks is her cobbler. She rather fabricates cases against innocents.

But as I said above, if you're a wolf we don't know what you really thought.

Originally Posted by Agan

Now I'm just trying to remember how much I've told you about what I'm like as a wolf

Same here.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But as I said above, if you're a wolf we don't know what you really thought.

Completely regardless of my role, I thought skip looked mighty cobblerish.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm far from being convinced of his innocence, either, but I don't think that's a very good argument, given that it was yourself who found Eomer's comparison of your playing style to that of gifted!Lottie's suspicious...

Even if that's unlikely, I think he can have dreamed sally as well, and I really don't like your insistence that it's not the case. It's simply too late to discount the possibility that somebody was not dreamed just because she was being friendly to the seer at the end of the day. Period.
At the moment I think I could vote for Lottie because she's being darn fishy... but then again, her earlier behaviour & the part she played in EW & Eomer's lynches speak in her favour... I wonder if she's the cobbler (although I had probably better stop cobbler hunting for now and concentrate on finding the wolf). Argh this is confusing. Sally is my second option, and then Pitch, although I feel a lot better about him than the other two.

Could also be the cobbler doing a fake reveal, assuming she actually thought Eomer was innocent.

1. Eomer compared my behavior to Gifted!me. I'm comparing Pitchie's behavior to ordo!him and evil!him. Not gifted!him.

2. You admit it's unlikely Sally was dreamed, but then say that you suspect her more than the person who is likely to be evil? I'm sorry, but I can see no innocent reason for this. And I'm not basing my trust of Sally purely on Skip's probably not dreaming her - she's done nothing that makes her look evil all game! If she's evil, we'd have seen something by now other than a argument that, boiled down, says "she's playing, so she could potentially be evil! It's not likely, but because of the fact that she exists, I'm going to vote her!" And I'm sorry if that's a bit too harsh, but that's your only argument!

3. Yeah, only she was trying to get Eomer lynched.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And what makes you so sure skip didn't dream sally? Just because he didn't suspect her yesterDay? It might have been a good idea to check somebody he didn't suspect, just in case - I've done it myself as the seer, to make sure I wasn't overlooking something.

So've I. Remember how I got you killed? Good times...but it wasn't at end game. At end game, you dream your suspects, not one of the most innocent looking people playing.

There's something going on between the two of you...

And it reminds me a whole lot of my very first game. Nog's Ranger game...Epic Alliance of Good People...ah, such fun times.

EDIT: Just realized that I was confused about point 3. Scratch that; I didn't read the sentance properly. Sorry!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

1. Eomer compared my behavior to Gifted!me. I'm comparing Pitchie's behavior to ordo!him and evil!him. Not gifted!him.

You thought Eomer looked suspicious because he was saying you behaved differently from what he remembered. He wasn't actually accusing you, he was just pointing it out. How is it so different from Pitch behaving differently from what you'd expect?

2. You admit it's unlikely Sally was dreamed, but then say that you suspect her more than the person who is likely to be evil?

More than the person who's likely to be evil? Are you talking about Pitch or yourself now? I suspect sally because I think she's suspicious! Read back to my posts, you'll see I've had doubts about her since day 2 (ie. since her reaction to my random vote). I don't think it's really my fault that your and her interaction with Eomer is far more suspicious than Pitch's.

Gah now I'm getting too single-minded again, I don't intend to ignore Pitch just because I find you more suspicious...

I'm sorry, but I can see no innocent reason for this.

And what's the wolfish reason that you can see?

she's done nothing that makes her look evil all game! --- And I'm sorry if that's a bit too harsh, but that's your only argument!

Feel free to go through my posts and see what I've said of sally. Either it's our difference in views or you're trying to save her for a reason of her own, but I think her behaviour has been rather suspicious.

[Pitchwife]

It's not getting any earlier here, and I've got to get up early in the morning, so - voting time.

With my luck, I'm probably going to botch this, but in the end, I don't think Wolfanzir would have defended Eowolf like she did. She could still be the cobbler, or maybe even a stubborn innocent gone astray.

On the other hand, there are strong signs for a conspiracy of some kind between sally and Lottie (pre-conviction of Eomer's guilt without a solid reason, and Lottie's baseless conviction that sally can't have been dreamed last Night). Come to think of it, maybe it started even with that 'genius-we-can-trust' hint early on Day 1.
I've no idea which is which, but my gut says sally=wolf and Lottie=cobbler.

Therefore,
++sally

Á vala Manwë. Good night.

[satansaloser2005]

WHAT THE FRELLING FRELL?!?!




ETA: Erm, sorry, that wasn't actually meant to be in all caps. Still, ....the frell?

[satansaloser2005]

If Skip dreamed me, he dreamed me as innocent. Did no one SEE the post I quoted earlier toDay? I'm just sayin'. He thought the wolves were among Agan, Lottie, and possibly Pitch. That tells me that he did NOT dream me or Nerwen, at least as guilty.



So, Pitch, who's the cobbler, you or Agan? I just, you know, need to know who would be the more effective vote choice at this juncture. If you're honest we may even let you live! (Unless you're the wolf, of course, and then no, sorry.)

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Come to think of it, maybe it started even with that 'genius-we-can-trust' hint early on Day 1.
I've no idea which is which, but my gut says sally=wolf and Lottie=cobbler.

Aw, that would've been an awesome hint! But no. I get what you're thinking if you're innocent, but see, I'm not the cobbler, and I'm not the wolf, and I don't think Sally's either one, either. But kudos for being clever!

EDIT: xed with Sallycake

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Pitchie

With my luck, I'm probably going to botch this

Yup, pretty much. Isn't that unfortunate? Or is it for you? o_O

Originally Posted by Pitchie

I don't think Wolfanzir would have defended Eowolf like she did. She could still be the cobbler, or maybe even a stubborn innocent gone astray.

Ah, but she could, and she would. And that's not even relevant, as it wasn't even a defense. You're saying that Agan isn't a wolf based on something she didn't even do. She ws hard after our seer, but that's a completely clump of fur than defendin Eomer, which she never really did. So....yeah. Bz-chicken-wah?

Originally Posted by Pitchie

On the other hand, there are strong signs for a conspiracy of some kind between sally and Lottie (pre-conviction of Eomer's guilt without a solid reason, and Lottie's baseless conviction that sally can't have been dreamed last Night). Come to think of it, maybe it started even with that 'genius-we-can-trust' hint early on Day 1.
I've no idea which is which, but my gut says sally=wolf and Lottie=cobbler.

Strong signs, eh? Give me one. One bloody sign. There aren't any? Just checking.

Also, the genius thing has been explained; it was a joke, and I said so Days ago. You're just bringing it up again (and out of context too) to twist me into suspicion.

Originally Posted by Pitchie

Therefore,
[h]++sally[/h]

Again. ....the frell?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Strong signs, eh? Give me one. One bloody sign. There aren't any? Just checking.

There are signs! See, we both tried to get Eowolf killed, which clearly means we're conspring together. Plus, neither of us suspects you, which clearly all the *innocent* people are doing. Finally, both of us are arguing against an inherently baseless Sally!bandwagon! Gasp! Strong signs, indeed! I'm evil! I didn't know! [/sarcasm]

Really, though, I'd be okay with either an Agan lynch or a Pitchie lynch, although I'd prefer a Pitchie lynch. I think Agan's the cobbler, but the innocents have to put up a united front, so...yeah.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Actually, as an innocent, Pitchie's much more in the thick of things, suspecting people with the best of them.

I'm far from being convinced of his innocence, either, but I don't think that's a very good argument, given that it was yourself who found Eomer's comparison of your playing style to that of gifted!Lottie's suspicious...

I don't think Skip would have dreamt of anyone besides Agan, Pitchie, and me. And I know who I am - that is, not the last wolf. My vote will go to one of those two.

Even if that's unlikely, I think he can have dreamed sally as well, and I really don't like your insistence that it's not the case. It's simply too late to discount the possibility that somebody was not dreamed just because she was being friendly to the seer at the end of the day. Period.
At the moment I think I could vote for Lottie because she's being darn fishy... but then again, her earlier behaviour & the part she played in EW & Eomer's lynches speak in her favour... I wonder if she's the cobbler (although I had probably better stop cobbler hunting for now and concentrate on finding the wolf). Argh this is confusing. Sally is my second option, and then Pitch, although I feel a lot better about him than the other two.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Her almost-fake-reveal yesterDay just before DL (#374) looks very much like an attempt by an innocent to protect the seer by baiting the wolf to kill her instead...

Could also be the cobbler doing a fake reveal, assuming she actually thought Eomer was innocent.

Agan's defense of Eomer yesterDay, and her continued cobbler-hunt for skip are a strong point against her.

Actually, if you ask me, they should in fact speak in my favour... There are two things you should know about Aganwolf:
1) She always throws her fellows under the bus if she thinks it makes her look better. I've only saved a fellow from the gallows once (who was about to be lynched for, objectively, ridiculous reasons).
2) She never lynches the one she thinks is her cobbler. She rather fabricates cases against innocents.
Now I'm just trying to remember how much I've told you about what I'm like as a wolf, ie. are you inventing reasons to accuse me or not...

If she's the cobbler, by the way, her support of me is sadly (or luckily) misguided.

Good to know... Actually I just changed my mind about Lottie, in truth she really looks innocent!
Anyway before you get excited, I'm not supporting you (at least on purpose). I just think Lottie and sally are more suspicious than you. It's not the same.

Finally, Nerwen. I'm not sure that one comment by skip is sufficient evidence to clear her as a dreamed innocent

I wouldn't worry about it too much - if she's our final wolf, I think we can blame skip for our loss.

I'm here while the others are fighting (my character is a coward who rather shoots, and he has to load his bow every other round).