WW LXXX: It's About Time!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by sally

Unfortunately, we can't afford to give Pitch a pass toDay even with his family circumstances, so if he doesn't return I don't want to see anyone using that as an excuse to let him pass. (By the same token, I don't want to attack him. It's just that letting him live based on meta circumstances is not the most prudent game move at this juncture. I think he would understand.

Don't worry, I do of course understand and I wouldn't expect anything else. But I'm here now and will be (although maybe intermittently) for the next couple of hours.

As for skip, blargh, I misread him totally. Anyway, he did a good job ridding us of two wolves. RIP.
I'd have preferred for him to be alive toDay and explain what exactly those shadowy and suspicious activities of mine were that he referred to yesterDay. One thing I know is that he hadn't dreamed me, because I happen not to be a wolf; but even if I were, he couldn't, because of this:

Originally Posted by toDay's narration

What, was I sleepwalking? He thought. It had been a long time since he'd done that. And now coming back to him was the dream he'd just had, a dream of one of the people in this house being a soulless killer.

The last one! he said to himself. How would he go about telling the others? All they had to do was get rid of this one and they'd be free to await the opening of the door to the outside in peace.

Unless I'm completely mis- or overinterpreting this, it says that skip dreamed the last wolf last Night just before he was killed, not earlier.

As for who our last wolf could be - at first glance I'd say Agan doesn't look too good now, except I've no idea what to make of her D2 vote for Eomer if it's her. But as to the following:

I only picked up cobbler hints. If I was a wolf and thought he was the cobbler, I wouldn't have tried to lynch him. If I was a wolf and thought he was the seer, he would've died a bit earlier. As it happens, I'm innocent and thought he was the cobbler.

Apart from the obligatory "I wouldn't do this if I was a wolf", what if you'd thought he was neither cobbler nor seer but just an ordo who happened to behave sufficiently cobblerish to make a tasty lynch?

But with the village shrunk to this size, I'm past blindly trusting anybody.

And by the way:

Originally Posted by Lottie

Pitchie did turn into Mr. Agreeable partway through the game

Would you mind giving some evidence? Otherwise this looks just like a standard prefab reason-to-suspect-Pitch-whatever-he-is. It's getting stale.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Agan

What's this thing with Mr. Agreeable? Is he always very agreeable as a wolf?

I'm a bit surprised nobody's told you yet. People find me 'too agreeable' or something similar at least once in almost every game. Greenie coined the name in Legate's last game (when I was indeed a wolf), and it stuck; but it happened before and after, too.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Apart from the obligatory "I wouldn't do this if I was a wolf", what if you'd thought he was neither cobbler nor seer but just an ordo who happened to behave sufficiently cobblerish to make a tasty lynch?

Of course that would have been possible as well, especially after I said that the more people try to look like the cobbler, the less likely the wolves spot her... Hindsight 20-20. But I do tend to be a bit single-minded when I pursue people.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I'm a bit surprised nobody's told you yet. People find me 'too agreeable' or something similar at least once in almost every game. Greenie coined the name in Legate's last game (when I was indeed a wolf), and it stuck; but it happened before and after, too.

Actually, I have first-hand information - I know I've talked with you about it. I would just have liked to hear how Lottie explained using it against you... And still do. Because at least I am under the impression it's not only when you're a wolf that you're agreeable, but even if it was, I don't think you've looked too agreeable so far.

Okay we start roleplaying now which means I won't be around as much. Will check the thread every now and then, and will most likely be here around deadline, though.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Would you mind giving some evidence? Otherwise this looks just like a standard prefab reason-to-suspect-Pitch-whatever-he-is. It's getting stale.

It's not a reason to suspect you; it's shorthand for the general impression I have of you. You're right; it's certianly no basis for a vote, and would only fly as basis for suspicion on Day 1. Here's some real reasoning:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Actually, I have first-hand information - I know I've talked with you about it. I would just have liked to hear how Lottie explained using it against you... And still do. Because at least I am under the impression it's not only when you're a wolf that you're agreeable, but even if it was, I don't think you've looked too agreeable so far.

Actually, as an innocent, Pitchie's much more in the thick of things, suspecting people with the best of them.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Conclusion: Inconsistency between suspicions and vote in Agan's case, and wilwa could be either/or; rest looks decent for Day 1.

After analyzing the Day 1 votes for people other than TEWie, he concludes with mild suspicion towards Agan and Wilwa, neither of which could be his packmate, and concludes that everyone else looks 'decent'. Hardly incriminating, but it does look like he's treading a little bit softly.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Mine as well. There's something going on here.


You mean your post about how she was so very inoffensive and careful to soften her suspicions wasn't a subtle accusation?

(Aside to Lottie: How does it feel to be Miss Agreeable for a change?)

Here he agrees with me that there's something off about Eomer and Skip's exchange. He banters/suspects Eomer slightly here in such a way as could look like wolf-on-wolf, or could be entirely innocent.

(Aside to Pitchie: The novelty wore off. )

Unfortunately, I don't have time to go through all of his posts. This is just the Day that stood out to me most. As it is, I wouldn't particularly suspect Pitchie on his own, but he makes the top two most suspected list simply because I don't think Skip would have dreamt of anyone besides Agan, Pitchie, and me. And I know who I am - that is, not the last wolf. My vote will go to one of those two.

[Pitchwife]

Some thoughts about sally (admittedly fragmentary, not even attempting a full analysis of our Queen of the Post Count):

Her strange insistence on Day 3 that

Originally Posted by sally#221

either Eomer or Greenie HAS to be a wolf

has already been commented on. Granted that Eomer looked a lot furrier after Greenie was revealed as innocent, the way he'd been after her, but given that sally supported Greenie's lynch, and supposing she was Eomer's packmate, she would have planned ahead and prepared to distance herself from him afterwards, wouldn't she?

Her almost-fake-reveal yesterDay just before DL (#374) looks very much like an attempt by an innocent to protect the seer by baiting the wolf to kill her instead... only the pun about 'baited breath' in her post-DL post #381 undoes it. And a wolf trying to make herself look good would of course have known she wasn't really in danger to get killed.

Then there's her first post of toDay, the farewell to skip, which is very sallyish, only, I don't know, somehow a bit overdone in it's tear-drowned way of saying "Of course I knew he was the seer all along, I so would have liked to save him (only I didn't), I'll avenge him", read: "I'm so totally obviously not the one who killed him." Looks forced to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Lottie, apparently, began yesterDay convinced that Eomer was a big bad wolf (which he was) and prepared to plant the idea that I'm his packmate (which I'm not), starting the 'Mr Agreeable' routine with #271. But when skip voted Eomer, her reaction was

Originally Posted by Lottie #373

But I still don't know why you're pressing this.

in answer to this:

Originally Posted by skip#370

No dammit, lynch Eomer, ergo my vote!

So did she really not understand why he was pressing to lynch the one who had been her her own main suspect for the last two days? Or was she trying to force him to reveal explicitly so the last wolf would know who to kill?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Agan's defense of Eomer yesterDay, and her continued cobbler-hunt for skip are a strong point against her. As for the latter, I think it entirely possible that Aganwolf could have used the accusation of cobblery as a pretense to get an innocent lynched, even if she had no idea he was the seer. As for the former, I wonder - there must have been a predictable chance yesterDay that Eomer would get lynched, given that he was heavily suspected, so wouldn't it have made more sense for a packmate to distance herself from him?
If she's the cobbler, by the way, her support of me is sadly (or luckily) misguided.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, Nerwen. I'm not sure that one comment by skip is sufficient evidence to clear her as a dreamed innocent - but I've got nothing on her, and I'm running out of time.


So, where is everybody? I haven't got all night.

EDIT: x-ed with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So did she really not understand why he was pressing to lynch the one who had been her her own main suspect for the last two days? Or was she trying to force him to reveal explicitly so the last wolf would know who to kill?

You mean, did I really not understand what the hey was going on, but it seemed like it was going on in a good way, so I went with it anyway? Yup. That's about what happened. I figured it out a minute after DL, when I went, "ohhhhhhhhh...derp."

[Pitchwife]

Really, Lottie, is that the best you can do? I suspected Eomer heavily enough to vote him based on that exchange, and you disqualify it as slight suspicion/banter? Obviously our ideas of stylistic register are vastly different... or you're twisting it to fit.

[Pitchwife]

And what makes you so sure skip didn't dream sally? Just because he didn't suspect her yesterDay? It might have been a good idea to check somebody he didn't suspect, just in case - I've done it myself as the seer, to make sure I wasn't overlooking something.
There's something going on between the two of you...

EDIT: x-ed with Agan; this is addressed to Lottie.

[Aganzir]

Once again: we have no way of knowing if skip suspected sally or not. Maybe not at the end of the day, but he had a lot of time to think of whom to dream of. If I was a wolf and thought somebody was a wolf, I'd totally try to buddy up with them before killing them. If I was the seer and saw somebody was trying to buddy up with me, I'd get suspicious.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Agan

She never lynches the one she thinks is her cobbler. She rather fabricates cases against innocents.

But as I said above, if you're a wolf we don't know what you really thought.

Originally Posted by Agan

Now I'm just trying to remember how much I've told you about what I'm like as a wolf

Same here.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Actually, as an innocent, Pitchie's much more in the thick of things, suspecting people with the best of them.

I'm far from being convinced of his innocence, either, but I don't think that's a very good argument, given that it was yourself who found Eomer's comparison of your playing style to that of gifted!Lottie's suspicious...

I don't think Skip would have dreamt of anyone besides Agan, Pitchie, and me. And I know who I am - that is, not the last wolf. My vote will go to one of those two.

Even if that's unlikely, I think he can have dreamed sally as well, and I really don't like your insistence that it's not the case. It's simply too late to discount the possibility that somebody was not dreamed just because she was being friendly to the seer at the end of the day. Period.
At the moment I think I could vote for Lottie because she's being darn fishy... but then again, her earlier behaviour & the part she played in EW & Eomer's lynches speak in her favour... I wonder if she's the cobbler (although I had probably better stop cobbler hunting for now and concentrate on finding the wolf). Argh this is confusing. Sally is my second option, and then Pitch, although I feel a lot better about him than the other two.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Her almost-fake-reveal yesterDay just before DL (#374) looks very much like an attempt by an innocent to protect the seer by baiting the wolf to kill her instead...

Could also be the cobbler doing a fake reveal, assuming she actually thought Eomer was innocent.

Agan's defense of Eomer yesterDay, and her continued cobbler-hunt for skip are a strong point against her.

Actually, if you ask me, they should in fact speak in my favour... There are two things you should know about Aganwolf:
1) She always throws her fellows under the bus if she thinks it makes her look better. I've only saved a fellow from the gallows once (who was about to be lynched for, objectively, ridiculous reasons).
2) She never lynches the one she thinks is her cobbler. She rather fabricates cases against innocents.
Now I'm just trying to remember how much I've told you about what I'm like as a wolf, ie. are you inventing reasons to accuse me or not...

If she's the cobbler, by the way, her support of me is sadly (or luckily) misguided.

Good to know... Actually I just changed my mind about Lottie, in truth she really looks innocent!
Anyway before you get excited, I'm not supporting you (at least on purpose). I just think Lottie and sally are more suspicious than you. It's not the same.

Finally, Nerwen. I'm not sure that one comment by skip is sufficient evidence to clear her as a dreamed innocent

I wouldn't worry about it too much - if she's our final wolf, I think we can blame skip for our loss.

I'm here while the others are fighting (my character is a coward who rather shoots, and he has to load his bow every other round).

[satansaloser2005]

Interwebs are being hateful because of the weather. I'll still be here, but I'll have to be concise. Just a fair warning (and apology of sorts) in case I don't reply to everything.

[satansaloser2005]

**Lottie for Representative**


EDIT: x'd with Agan and Nerwen. Thus....

**Nerwen for the Win**

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It's just something you did that speaks neither for nor against you, so I wouldn't try to defend myself with it.

If you can't defend yourself with fighting to kill a wolf and defending the seer, what can you defend yourself with nowadays?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

**Lottie for Representative**


EDIT: x'd with Agan and Nerwen. Thus....

**Nerwen for the Win**

Snerk. *snuggles Sallycakes...and Nerwen, too, for good measure*

EDIT: xed with Agan, who can haz snuggles too.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If you can't defend yourself with fighting to kill a wolf and defending the seer, what can you defend yourself with nowadays?

Killing a wolf and defending the seer from a lynch are no proof of somebody's innocence. That's just the way it goes - especially when the player in question is someone as experienced and sneaky as sally.