Do Balrogs Have Wings? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 09-14-2010, 07:31 AM

An aspect that has not, not my knowledge, been previously mentioned is that of the balrog's long sleep. Two factors would contribute to the theory that it had wings, yet did not use them. For one, we all know that neglect and disuse produces atrophied muscles. After centuries, even ages of hibernation, the balrog was not able to move its wings because the muscles had deteriorated.

The second aspect is that which Shakespeare called "to sleep, perchance to dream". Dreaming for such a long time may have caused the balrog to forget that it had wings. We all know how disoriented we can be when rudely awakened out of a dream! By the time it remembered its wings, and the additional time it took to remember *how* to use them, it failed miserably because it *could not*.

All further posts and arguments are redundant: the mystery has thusly been solved.

Thank you - really, applause is not necessary.

Nerwen · 09-14-2010, 07:36 AM

*applauds anyway*

Puddleglum · 09-14-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

An aspect that has not, not my knowledge, been previously mentioned is that of the balrog's long sleep. ... neglect and disuse produces atrophied muscles. ...Dreaming for such a long time may have caused the balrog to forget that it had wings.

Good point imo about muscle atrophy.

I'm not so sure about the forgetting, tho, as the Balrog had been awake again for several hundred years - certainly long enough to notice these things on its back and think about what they were for.

Of course, being *inside* the mines for that whole time it would not have much (if any) opportunity to use the wings for flying <not much space for it>.

Inziladun · 09-14-2010, 12:03 PM

One thing I've wondered about is this: if the Balrogs could really fly, why couldn't they have been searching for Gondolin from the air, after Húrin gave away its general location to Morogth? Why did it take the capture of Maeglin to allow the city to be found?

Sure, the Eagles were present to keep watch, but would a Balrog really not be up to facing a giant bird?

Galadriel · 10-15-2010, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

One thing I've wondered about is this: if the Balrogs could really fly, why couldn't they have been searching for Gondolin from the air, after Húrin gave away its general location to Morogth? Why did it take the capture of Maeglin to allow the city to be found?

Sure, the Eagles were present to keep watch, but would a Balrog really not be up to facing a giant bird?

Another point...why would the Balrog in Moria have 'leaped across the fissure' instead of flown? I'm sure this has been addressed before. Not sure why I just said that. Only thing is I'm assured that Balrogs have wings but cannot fly.

narfforc · 10-15-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Only thing is I'm assured that Balrogs have wings but cannot fly.

A bit like an ostrich, wings but cannot fly. Having been stuck in the Dark Pit for a few thousand years, would they have become defunct or the Balrog had just forgotten he had them. Maybe this is what Tolkien what trying to tell us, they (the wings) had become shadows of their former selves.

Galadriel · 10-16-2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by narfforc

A bit like an ostrich, wings but cannot fly. Having been stuck in the Dark Pit for a few thousand years, would they have become defunct or the Balrog had just forgotten he had them. Maybe this is what Tolkien what trying to tell us, they (the wings) had become shadows of their former selves.

I mentioned the ostrich bit earlier myself, only I said dodos

And I agree with you, though one thing foxes me:

Glorfindel and Ecthelion and Fëanor could take on Balrogs (more than one at a time). They were Elves. They died in the end, but that's besides the point. If Gandalf is a Maia, why did he have so much trouble? I know they are not allowed to reveal their full power in ME, but still.

Puddleglum · 10-16-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I mentioned the ostrich bit earlier myself, only I said dodos

And I agree with you, though one thing foxes me:

Glorfindel and Ecthelion and Fëanor could take on Balrogs (more than one at a time). They were Elves. They died in the end, but that's besides the point. If Gandalf is a Maia, why did he have so much trouble? I know they are not allowed to reveal their full power in ME, but still.

I think it's largely situational. Glorfindal managed to take a Balrog over a cliff, Echthelion managed to take one into a deep fountain. I'm not sure that Feanor "took on" Balrogs, it's more that they took HIM on - and killed him without suffering loss.

Largely, I think this all indicates how powerful the Elvish lords were. Remember Fingolfin was able to deal 7 long-lasting wounds to Morgoth himself. Gandalf, as a Maia, may not have been so significantly more powerful than the greatest Elvish lords - at least not in physical prowess (his "power" in the end was in encouraging other beings to join the fight and in showing love to them).

skip spence · 09-14-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

All further posts and arguments are redundant: the mystery has thusly been solved.

Nice try!

I feel obliged to point out that even though your assumptions were to be correct and the Balrog really was suffering from muscle atrophy and amnesia that would only help to explain why it couldn't fly if it had wings. Your arguments do nothing to prove or disprove that the Balrog had wings in the first place. And yes I'm aware they were tongue-in-cheek and, you know, the very idea of winged Balrogs vainly flapping their stunted wings like a barn-yard chicken is very amusing for sure...

Fordim Hedgethistle · 10-13-2010, 11:50 AM

Aha!

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...in_873x627.jpg

HerenIstarion · 10-14-2010, 01:48 AM

Do you mean to say Balrogs had attachable plastic wings?

narfforc · 10-14-2010, 07:01 AM

Looking at the picture Heren, I think they are metal, either way plastic or metal, they look nothing like shadowy wings to me, are you sure they dont belong to a Vampire Figure or a Jurassic Park Pterodactyl Fordim. So the question should be 'Do the Balrogs have Metal or Plastic looking Shadowy Wings?'.

Galadriel · 10-15-2010, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

Do you mean to say Balrogs had attachable plastic wings?

No, plastic wasn't invented at that time

Maybe velcro?

View Poll Results: Do balrogs have wings?
Yes	114	58.16%
No	82	41.84%
Voters: 196. You may not vote on this poll

09-14-2010, 07:31 AM	#1
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	An aspect that has not, not my knowledge, been previously mentioned is that of the balrog's long sleep. Two factors would contribute to the theory that it had wings, yet did not use them. For one, we all know that neglect and disuse produces atrophied muscles. After centuries, even ages of hibernation, the balrog was not able to move its wings because the muscles had deteriorated. The second aspect is that which Shakespeare called "to sleep, perchance to dream". Dreaming for such a long time may have caused the balrog to forget that it had wings. We all know how disoriented we can be when rudely awakened out of a dream! By the time it remembered its wings, and the additional time it took to remember how to use them, it failed miserably because it could not. All further posts and arguments are redundant: the mystery has thusly been solved. Thank you - really, applause is not necessary. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

09-14-2010, 07:36 AM	#2
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	applauds anyway __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

09-14-2010, 12:03 PM	#4
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	One thing I've wondered about is this: if the Balrogs could really fly, why couldn't they have been searching for Gondolin from the air, after Húrin gave away its general location to Morogth? Why did it take the capture of Maeglin to allow the city to be found? Sure, the Eagles were present to keep watch, but would a Balrog really not be up to facing a giant bird? __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

10-13-2010, 11:50 AM	#10
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Aha! http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...in_873x627.jpg __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

10-14-2010, 01:48 AM	#11
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	huh Do you mean to say Balrogs had attachable plastic wings? __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-14-2010, 07:01 AM	#12
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Looking at the picture Heren, I think they are metal, either way plastic or metal, they look nothing like shadowy wings to me, are you sure they dont belong to a Vampire Figure or a Jurassic Park Pterodactyl Fordim. So the question should be 'Do the Balrogs have Metal or Plastic looking Shadowy Wings?'. __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode