Sauron's Hroa and the Missing Finger

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Speaking of missing hroa, it's a good thing Sauron didn't keep the Ring elsewhere on his body. Otherwise, instead of nine, he would have none!

Makes one wonder where Gandalf was hiding Narya.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Makes one wonder where Gandalf was hiding Narya.

Hmmm...if one were inclined to use double entendre, one could say on his staff. But I never use entendre, whether intentionally or not.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Makes one wonder where Gandalf was hiding Narya.

I've always assumed in a sort of "pocket dimension" to be called out if needed. That's really the only way I can think of to explain how he could have died, been given a new (and completely naked) body, be sent back, and still have it (unless Eru was kind enought to float it out from under the muck of the mountain and have it fly back to him.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

I've always assumed in a sort of "pocket dimension" to be called out if needed. That's really the only way I can think of to explain how he could have died, been given a new (and completely naked) body, be sent back, and still have it (unless Eru was kind enought to float it out from under the muck of the mountain and have it fly back to him.

Well, if Sauron's disembodied spirit could somehow transport the One from the ruin of Númenor back to Middle-earth, Gandalf apparently could accomplish something similar after his physical body was "killed".

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

I've always assumed in a sort of "pocket dimension" to be called out if needed. That's really the only way I can think of to explain how he could have died, been given a new (and completely naked) body, be sent back, and still have it (unless Eru was kind enought to float it out from under the muck of the mountain and have it fly back to him.

Well, Frodo saw Galadriel's ring in Lórien while Sam saw a white star shining through Galadriel's hand. Seems to me that the Three could be hidden while being worn from all but a few.

It's not clear to me just how Gandalf resurrected, whether he got a new body or the old one was rebooted. However, afterwards he was back on top of the mountain. Ring and sword apparently survived the encounter.

[Azrakhor Akallabeth]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Well, Frodo saw Galadriel's ring in Lórien while Sam saw a white star shining through Galadriel's hand. Seems to me that the Three could be hidden while being worn from all but a few.

It's not clear to me just how Gandalf resurrected, whether he got a new body or the old one was rebooted. However, afterwards he was back on top of the mountain. Ring and sword apparently survived the encounter.

Well, Blantyr, answer number one is simple. Frodo saw the elven ring on Galadriels hand because he possessed the One Ring. This empowered him to see it, as it's purpose was to dominate ALL rings from that series of forgings.

As for Gandalf, there is much speculation, and alot to be read in other threads about this, but my leaning is to the argument that Eru Iluvatar sanctioned Gandalf's second incarnation and restored whatever the now White Wizard needed of his tool iventory.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Azrakhor Akallabeth

Well, Blantyr, answer number one is simple. Frodo saw the elven ring on Galadriels hand because he possessed the One Ring. This empowered him to see it, as it's purpose was to dominate ALL rings from that series of forgings.

As for Gandalf, there is much speculation, and alot to be read in other threads about this, but my leaning is to the argument that Eru Iluvatar sanctioned Gandalf's second incarnation and restored whatever the now White Wizard needed of his tool iventory.

Then why did Eru not provide Gandalf with at least TEMPORARY clothing (good enough to last him to Lothlorien, so that he wouldn't freeze to death on top of the mountain.

[Galadriel55]

Possily becuse Gandalf didn't need that clothing. It wouldn't assist him in saving ME. And he wouldn't die without it either.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Then why did Eru not provide Gandalf with at least TEMPORARY clothing (good enough to last him to Lothlorien, so that he wouldn't freeze to death on top of the mountain.

Seems to me that said reincarnation was in part a mystical experience. Hermits don't go on top of mountains just to slay balrogs, after all. Perhaps he needed a little humility to go with his promotion?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Possily becuse Gandalf didn't need that clothing. It wouldn't assist him in saving ME. And he wouldn't die without it either.

Didn't know you needed saving at that point.

[Azrakhor Akallabeth]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Seems to me that said reincarnation was in part a mystical experience. Hermits don't go on top of mountains just to slay balrogs, after all. Perhaps he needed a little humility to go with his promotion?

Bravo, lol!

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Azrakhor Akallabeth

Well, Blantyr, answer number one is simple. Frodo saw the elven ring on Galadriels hand because he possessed the One Ring. This empowered him to see it, as it's purpose was to dominate ALL rings from that series of forgings.

Perhaps Frodo saw it because Artanis chose to wear it in front of him, held up her hand, and starlight glanced off it... maybe Frodo understood with certainty that this Ring was one of the Great Three, without being told, because his 'sight' had grown keener as the bearer of the One.

Some fairly recent discussion on that here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...599#post655599

[Galin]

As for Sauron taking longer to rebuild his body in the Third Age...

' ... It was thus that Sauron appeared in this shape. It is mythologically supposed that when this shape was 'real', that is a physical actuality in the physical world and not a vision transferred from mind to mind, it took some time to build up. It was then destructible like other physical organisms. But that of course did not destroy the spirit, nor dismiss it from the world to which it was bound until the end. After the battle with Gilgalad and Elendil, Sauron took a long while to re-build, longer than he had done after the Downfall of Númenor (I suppose because each building-up used up some of the inherent energy of the spirit, that might be called the 'will' or the effective link between the indestructible mind and being and the realization of its imagination). The impossibility of re-building after the destruction of the Ring, is sufficiently clear 'mythologically' in the present book.'

From one of Tolkien's letters... can't recall which one at the moment!

[Eruhen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Apparently, while the Ring itself was still intact, Sauron was capable of being rebodied.

However, it took him a pretty long time to get his strength back, so that delay was probably due to his lacking physical possession of the One.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason, I always thought that he was just a spirit, barely capable of manifesting physically, partly due to the lack of the Ring, and partly due to the fact that so much of his power was going into functioning essentially as an overmind for his armies.