The Three Elven Rings

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

At no point in the story does anyone see Gandalf's Ring until they reached the Havens. That would be a bit hard not to notice, seeing as Gandalf was with the hobbits for a long time, and on numerous occasions.

That's right... but Tolkien added (The Grey Havens, second edition of the 1960s) that Gandalf now openly wore Narya.

Would this not leave the interpretation open that he physically concealed Narya before this?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galin

Would this not leave the interpretation open that he physically concealed Narya before this?

I would think so. Gandalf could have merely kept it about his person until he felt he needed to use it. Wearing it continuously would have been quite reckless, and probably unnecessary. I do find it interesting to think how it must have aided him over the years. Thorin Oakenshield, for one, might have been harder to convince, without it.

Elrond and Galadriel, confining themselves to relatively secure environments, would have really had no need to be as secretive.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I would think so. Gandalf could have merely kept it about his person until he felt he needed to use it. Wearing it continuously would have been quite reckless, and probably unnecessary. I do find it interesting to think how it must have aided him over the years. Thorin Oakenshield, for one, might have been harder to convince, without it.

Elrond and Galadriel, confining themselves to relatively secure environments, would have really had no need to be as secretive.

I tend to think that, when not needed, Gandalf may have gone so far as to keep Narya in a "pocket" dimenstion, not technically on his person at all. In some way's this might contradict the edict to keep his Maiar powers hidden but that might not apply to tricks not designed to influence anyone, or that anyone else would see (and even if they did, everyone who knew Gandalf knew him as a wizard and so would not have been surprised by another magic trick). With Gandalf, after all, you have the tricky bit of how he (maybe) can get a new body and still have possesion of a ring he was given previosly, as well as his sword (I think, did Gnadalf still have Glamdrig when he was white?). You either have to believe that Gandalf was ressurected in his original body (possible). his old body dissapeared and his new body ressurected in the exact same place, he found his old body and retrived the ring/sword (in which case, one might assume he would recover and clothing that his old body was still wearing). Through somespell/ divine intervention cause the ring to fly from his old body to wherever his new body was. Or that the ring was kept somewhere where the location of his old body to the new one was irrelevant.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

I tend to think that, when not needed, Gandalf may have gone so far as to keep Narya in a "pocket" dimenstion, not technically on his person at all.

Then why not keep the One there indefinitely?

Originally Posted by Alfirin

With Gandalf, after all, you have the tricky bit of how he (maybe) can get a new body and still have possesion of a ring he was given previosly, as well as his sword (I think, did Gnadalf still have Glamdrig when he was white?). You either have to believe that Gandalf was ressurected in his original body (possible). his old body dissapeared and his new body ressurected in the exact same place, he found his old body and retrived the ring/sword (in which case, one might assume he would recover and clothing that his old body was still wearing). Through somespell/ divine intervention cause the ring to fly from his old body to wherever his new body was. Or that the ring was kept somewhere where the location of his old body to the new one was irrelevant.

I favour the idea of him being returned to his old body, since that's where he was when Gwaihir found him. All the items he had carried on his person would have been still there, undisturbed.

[Alfirin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Then why not keep the One there indefinitely?

For the same reason Gandalf refused the ring whne Frodo offered it to him, he feared what would happen if it corrupted him. Wearing the ring, or keeping it near you, may accelerate it's ability to corrupt the person, but as long as you have "title" to it, it is not neccecary. If it was, Gandalf really could have simply hid the ring in "the deepest pits of Mendeluin" without Denethors knowledge (or for that matter simply buried it somewhere deep enough it would never be dug up again.) Actually putting the one ring in the pocket dimesion might have been extra risky, from Gandalfs point of view. As long as the ring was in the hands of someone who wore it or kept it close, it was theoretically possible to take it away physically, before the individual got too powerful. If Gandalf stuck in in the pocket dimension however, it would be somewhere where few if any people could get at it..........EXCEPT GANDALF. it would be like having it in an impregable box to which you had the one and only key. While the Ring wroght it's corruption on Gandalf, it would be in a place where no-one else could get near it. And by the time Gandalf took the ring out again to put it on, the ring would have likey made him so corrupt and so powerful as to be unopposable.



QUOTE=Inziladun;655631]I favour the idea of him being returned to his old body, since that's where he was when Gwaihir found him. All the items he had carried on his person would have been still there, undisturbed.[/QUOTE]

This, I agree is the most likey answer, though it does bring up again the "why naked?" question (My best answer is that we are supposed to assume Gandalfs nudity acually occured before he died on the peak, his clothes having been burned off (either by the Balrog's flames or by his own power pouring forth as he "uncloaks" to fight the Balrog)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

For the same reason Gandalf refused the ring whne Frodo offered it to him, he feared what would happen if it corrupted him. Wearing the ring, or keeping it near you, may accelerate it's ability to corrupt the person, but as long as you have "title" to it, it is not neccecary.

This makes sense to me. It would be like what happened to Bilbo, who tried to lock the Ring, but couldn't keep it out of his mind.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

For the same reason Gandalf refused the ring whne Frodo offered it to him, he feared what would happen if it corrupted him. Wearing the ring, or keeping it near you, may accelerate it's ability to corrupt the person, but as long as you have "title" to it, it is not neccecary. If it was, Gandalf really could have simply hid the ring in "the deepest pits of Mendeluin" without Denethors knowledge (or for that matter simply buried it somewhere deep enough it would never be dug up again.) Actually putting the one ring in the pocket dimesion might have been extra risky, from Gandalfs point of view. As long as the ring was in the hands of someone who wore it or kept it close, it was theoretically possible to take it away physically, before the individual got too powerful. If Gandalf stuck in in the pocket dimension however, it would be somewhere where few if any people could get at it..........EXCEPT GANDALF. it would be like having it in an impregable box to which you had the one and only key. While the Ring wroght it's corruption on Gandalf, it would be in a place where no-one else could get near it. And by the time Gandalf took the ring out again to put it on, the ring would have likey made him so corrupt and so powerful as to be unopposable.

The "pocket dimension' theory may technically be possible, I guess. With the lack of any textual evidence, though, I rather think Narya was simply hidden on Gandalf's person somewhere when not worn.

Originally Posted by Alfirin

This, I agree is the most likey answer, though it does bring up again the "why naked?" question (My best answer is that we are supposed to assume Gandalfs nudity acually occured before he died on the peak, his clothes having been burned off (either by the Balrog's flames or by his own power pouring forth as he "uncloaks" to fight the Balrog)

Though his clothing apparently did perish in the fight, I think the inner meaning of "naked" was that Gandalf's fleshly form in which he had arrived at Middle-earth was destroyed, and his spirit was "unclothed".

'Naked I was sent back--for a brief time, until my task is done. And naked I lay upon the mountain-top.'

TTT The White Rider

There I think Gandalf referred to both states of "nudity", physical and spiritual. His "naked" spirit had returned to finish his task, but before that he was taken by Gwaihir to Lórien and given his white clothing.

[Alfirin]

[QUOTE=Inziladun;655658]

Though his clothing apparently did perish in the fight, I think the inner meaning of "naked" was that Gandalf's fleshly form in which he had arrived at Middle-earth was destroyed, and his spirit was "unclothed".
QUOTE]

This seems to contradict your theory that Gandalf ressurected into his orginal body? Either his old body was not destroyed, or her got a new body, it has to be one or the other.