WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Folwren]

Night Two

Find someone who can help you. Someone who you can trust and send ahead to warn people. That had been the advice given to him, and now was the time to take action on it. As darkness fell, before he was required to be at the forge to meet about what to do, he waited and watched, hoping to find the one who could help him. But who could it possibly be? Most of the dwarves slunk off to their homes, bolting their doors behind them, as though that could keep them safe.

Then he saw the one. A dark, hooded figure standing in the shadow of an alley. He glanced up and down the street and then ran across, coming up behind the hood stranger silently.

“Friend, can you help me?”

The dwarf whipped about, and Galin turned his face away. “No, do not try to see me. It is better if you do not know me. But listen, I will bring word each night about this time of whom the Forge may seek to kill. I cannot promise that I will know, but it will be my best guess.”

“Why should your guess be any better than anyone else’s of who the Forge will kill?” the dwarf asked.

“Because I am one of them, but I am also the king’s messenger. So, hark, this night protect with your life. . .” and he whispered a name so low the other could scarcely hear. But he did hear, and he nodded.

“Good luck, friend,” Galin said, and turned away.

The debate at the forge was hot that night. They were angry and distraught, frightened at what Bom’s death foretold them. They knew they had to strike back, hard and swift, and sure, but how? The decision was not quite made and dawn was coming swiftly. “The first one we come to,” they decided. “Quickly now, we must be ready to face them come day break.”

They leaped up, loosed their daggers in their sheaths as they went and exited into the cold open air.

They almost immediately caught sight of the same hooded dwarf Galin had spoken to. Galin recognized the dwarf at once, and he stopped dead in his tracks, struck dumb with horror as his campanions hurried on, locked into their kill.

It was over quickly, and the body was left in the street. When the first dwarvish citizen dared to open his door and peek his beard out, he found the cloaked body of one of their women. He drew back the hood.

It was Wilwarin.

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Galadriel
Eruhen
Glirdan
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf

[Inziladun]

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

More immediately, can anything be learned from Bom's comments and interactions?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

Yep. Dang.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

More immediately, can anything be learned from Bom's comments and interactions?

Other than that he was eager to be rid of tp, he seemed to suspect you and McCaber to be in some kind of collusion IIRC (possibly together with tp). But I'll go back and look if there's more.

Speaking of McCaber - Rikae, please enlighten me:

Originally Posted by Rikae

and I don't know what McCobbler is doing (but I know for a fact he's not the KD!)

How can you know that "for a fact", unless you're a member of the Forge and he is not?

[Mithalwen]

Hi I am around ... inspired with a rare "catch" I have been doing some note taking... nearly done will be back soon with conclusions.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Speaking of McCaber - Rikae, please enlighten me:

How can you know that "for a fact", unless you're a member of the Forge and he is not?

Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?
img, #cubbies-overlay{ -moz-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -moz-transition-duration: 0.1s; -webkit-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -webkit-transition-duration: 0.1s; } .cubbies-selected{ z-index: 9999; box-shadow: 3px 3px 8px -1px blue !important; cursor: pointer !important; margin: -3px 3px 3px -3px; } .cubbies-selected:active{ box-shadow: 2px 2px 5px -1px darkblue !important; margin: -1px 1px 1px -1px; } #cubbies-overlay{ position: fixed; z-index: 9999; bottom: 30px; left: 30px; box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgba(0,0,0,0.8); border: none; } #cubbies-overlay:hover{ box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgb(0,0,0); }

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?

"And I know of course I'm innocent (although I obviously can't prove it), so if he suspects me, he can't know my role"?

[Mithalwen]

Hmm I think Wilwa was a lucky strike on balance. From my notes she posted little and mainly discussed the game set up rather than individuals.Though her vote was on the money her reasons were more save Phantom than kill Bom.though she did remind us of the special instructions but was that enought to say "Lynch me I'm gifted" to the forge - it seems not to have alerted the KD unless Wilwa went her own way.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

"And I know of course I'm innocent (although I obviously can't prove it), so if he suspects me, he can't know my role"?

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

Anyway - I'm terribly sorry I didn't vote or participate much yesterDay - I hadn't checked when the DL was and was distracted by RL - but I'll try to do better from here on. I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?
img, #cubbies-overlay{ -moz-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -moz-transition-duration: 0.1s; -webkit-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -webkit-transition-duration: 0.1s; } .cubbies-selected{ z-index: 9999; box-shadow: 3px 3px 8px -1px blue !important; cursor: pointer !important; margin: -3px 3px 3px -3px; } .cubbies-selected:active{ box-shadow: 2px 2px 5px -1px darkblue !important; margin: -1px 1px 1px -1px; } #cubbies-overlay{ position: fixed; z-index: 9999; bottom: 30px; left: 30px; box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgba(0,0,0,0.8); border: none; } #cubbies-overlay:hover{ box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgb(0,0,0); }

[McCaber]

Boms first posts here were just chatter, asking the Forge to step forward and make their identity known. And it was reacted to as such.

Next is this:

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I'm torn between keeping phantom around to admire his brilliance (before killing him for being an eeevil li'l schemer) and just plain killing him to, as G55 says, save us some headaches.

Also, phantom's fixation on killing the KD this early seems like a Forger trying to get an obstacle out of the way during the day, when the Watchdwarf can't protect him.

which seems an awful like just badmouthing tp, or (if tp is indeed a Forge-ite) it could be an attempt to create an appearance of division between them. I'm leaning heavily towards the first right now.

He leans on Inzil a bit for not catching an inside joke, and gets a verbal smack back for it.

He votes phantom, hopping on a barrelling bandwagon against him. I'd say this looks like more evidence for phantom's innocence.

And Inzil and Eruhen voting him at the last moment also speaks volumes towards innocence in both of them, as his lynch was by no means set in stone.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated.

That's not a case (yet), it's a question. And perhaps a test.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

Exactly. Not that I consider it terribly likely either, but I'm glad you got my point.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?

Foley's last word on the Admin thread was we'd know when the KD died. If she's changed her mind about that, it would be fair to let everybody know.

And about Bom-as-KD specifically: I know it's considered bad form to try and draw conclusions from the narration, but -

Originally Posted by yesterDay's narration

The dwarves reached out and took hold of Bom, dragging him down from where he stood by the loud dwarf, and taking him to the center of the village. They were a blood thirsty and frightened group and no one was there that knew better or who could hold them back. The members of the Forge stayed quiet, and Galin Ironfist remained silent, too, for this was the beginning of his victory.
[...]
Galin alone stood waiting until the street was clear. Then he approached and took the head by the beard and laid it by the body. He drew his dagger and cut away the cloth of Bom’s shirt by his shoulder and pulled it back, revealing the brand of the Valley Forge.

I like to think such a diligent writer as our Moddess would have phrased this differently if Bom himself had been the KD.

But supposing for the sake of argument he was, did he leave any hints about his role?

EDIT: x-ed with Mith, whose cyber sheepdog Nogrod totally cracked me up. I love you!

[the phantom]

About to head out again, but first I'll post some thoughts of my Day 1 skim...

First- wow! I was really close to dying, ha ha! Had I realized what was going on here my drive home would've been much more anxious.

Anyway-

Just as a point of interest, Bom, Gal55, Eruhen, Inzil, and Nerwen seem to think of the baddies as Werewolves (judging from their wording here and there) even though the baddies in this village are not Werewolves.

Others, such as Finduilas, Boro, and I, seem to make a point of calling the baddies what they are- Forge members or bad dwarves etc.

I have no idea if that means anything at all. I thought it was possible that people that had spent a good deal of time with the rules and thinking about things would naturally lean away from saying "Werewolves", and I also thought it possible that the bad dwarves would not refer to themselves as such, knowing that they weren't Wolves, you know, but Bom ruins that theory... Unless of course in their discussions they referred to themselves with classic pack terminology and it stuck in their minds and it carried over to the game thread. Who knows?

Originally Posted by Boro

I could have added eye rolls to show those posts were filled to the brim with sarcasm, but if phantom (or anyone else) interprets as sucking up, that's fairy nuff.

Ha ha, no, I didn't think you were sucking up. Quite the opposite- I figured you were addressing me as carefully as possible according to your formulas involving me not being able to read you directly and also opening up an opportunity for you to read me etc. In a way the attitude felt copied and pasted from other Day 1s when you've spoken to me.

Originally Posted by Gal55

I'm torn between voting some submarine or tp. The problem is, almost anybody except for tp is kinda sub-ish. Including me. And it's soooooooooo tempting to lynch phantom. At least just to show him that it can be done... But, on the other hand, I'd hate to lose "the second most deadliest person in the village" (or whatever it was that Bom called him) if he's innocent. But I'd dance on my head if he'll be a fenris.

Meh, I don't like this attitude. It's the old fan the flames and make the idea sound palatable while at the same time displaying disapproval. "Look people, isn't it tempting? But actually, I'm uneasy."

Originally Posted by Inzil

Because G55 looks less suspicious.

Why did you say that after you changed your vote from me to Bom? What was the connection?

Originally Posted by Rikae

This seems to be a flaw in the plan, though:
"This player will appear to be one of the members of the Valley Forge."

Does this mean the KD isn't revealed on his death?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right?

Foley specifically said-

Originally Posted by Foley

I think that roles will be revealed as long as the King's Dwarf is still alive.

Originally Posted by Foley

You will definitely know when the King's Dwarf dies.

With her saying that I felt fairly secure there would be no loop-hole in my loop-hole plan.

Gotta run now, but just to give an idea of my basic feelings- I seriously doubt I'm voting for Eruhen, Rikae, Mith, Inzil, or Pitch today.

[the phantom]

I'll be leaving shortly, but I'll return after 2-3 hours and be around the rest of the day. (Sorry for not being around yesterday. No choice.)

Anyway, I'm definitely not caught up on the specifics of yesterday, but in my quick skim it looked like Sally never explained my vote, so here's the explanation-

Watch

It's a running gag with Sally, Fea, and a couple others to imitate Spike in their Facebook posts and such, saying four words and adding the insult to the end.

While I was visiting Sally a short while ago she did it to me (several times), and suddenly I was struck with the idea to use the joke on the Downs only with Pitch inserted in place of the word that the mods here probably don't want me using as a way to label another member.

The original plan was to say- "You are a Wolf- Pitch", but it didn't fit in these circumstances (there being no wolves in this village), so I changed it to "You must be lynched- Pitch".

Probably not the least bit amusing to non-Buffy fans, but I know at least two people found it extremely funny.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

Sure did. And Wilwa hardly said anything at all!

I can't stay for long or go searching for interactions and etc, but from toDay's posts, Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated. I'll be back later with my thoughts in full...

Edit: xed with Mith

[McCaber]

So, yesterDay I forgot it ended at 4 instead of 5. This means that with work I'm going to need to vote quite early, and that I missed the previous vote by like 15 minutes.

So, phantom's plan got discarded early? Makes sense. I thought it was a bit too good to be true. Fortunately, it seems we hit on a Forger anyway.

I'll take a look at posts by and about the lateBomand see if anything trips my radar.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by McCaber

So, phantom's plan got discarded early? Makes sense. I thought it was a bit too good to be true. Fortunately, it seems we hit on a Forger anyway.

.

So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

I have notes on everyone and at the moment Pitchwife looks pretty innocent to me. He picked up on Bom early and so his vote was consistent, Discussed the situation and TP's plan and was calm in the face of TP's fairly bizarre vote. Also in no hurry to dispose of the only other player in a close timezone...

Galadriel worries me a lot. I may be a poor judge because she was my abandoned cub the one and only time I have played with her but I have filled twice as much paper on her but it is a bit careful. Not much original - she agrees with Nerwen a bit, says Boro's predicitions is coming true. She does pick up on Eruhen's odd "nothing to add" in the face of TP's plan and points out that the plan is a de facto reveal - but seems to be looking for a way round it. On the less original side there are vote counts within 4 posts of each other, a list that draws no real conclusions - Wilwa and Pitch seem more innocent. Sort of stuff that makes a player look diligent but doesn't actually commit them - and all the misguided panic over the deadline- taking up Nogrod's cyber sheepdog role. Then the last minute attack on the bandwaggon.. just seemed it might be a fausse-naive bluff....

[Mithalwen]

My notes on Bom were :

Invites werewolves to reveal. Later responds to Pitch noting this but not to my more strongly worded suspicion.

I didn't get eht "alas" in p 16 couldn't see who he was quoting . Think someone mentioned Boro later - I'll go back,

Then there is the Kill TP or not TP thing, deadline query with Galadriel.. and apart from that he is so devil may care that he might as well have revealed.

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

Because if it WAS allowed to fly, it'd be a great way to get information out. I agreed with it, even though I didn't know if our Moddess Goddess would let it.

[Eruhen]

Well, I'm setting out on my road trip significantly later than I thought I was. Good thing, too, since I got to see all of this.

Well, certainly seems like the Forge got their revenge for our fenris. I reiterate my statement from Day 1: who asked to live in interesting times?

I don't have a lot of time to post before I head out the door, but I do want to make sure I get this in:

++G55

...for the reasons others have posted, but mainly for her last-minute defense of Bom.

If I'm able to get access later, that might change; for now, though, I'm going with her.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I don't see what good could come for one of the Forgers to die in an attempt to look like the KD, not after having Bom and Gal lynched. Unless if somehow Gal was the KD, and Rikae covered for the rest of her pack to make it look like she was? Again, I don't see the benefit there.

Well, let's see what G55 said yesterDay that might be of interest.

This is going backward from the end of the Day. Smilies removed.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Throwaway Day One votes are sometimes ok. But I don't like throwaway Day 2 votes.

--Pitch

++G55

But I tell you, he's evil. He is. I said, HE. IS. There. And so it TP.

I might not be able to post until after DL, so good luck, my friends, even though you all want to lynch me.

That definitely looks like she wanted to pose as the KD. If she was , the other two Forgers are obvious. If not, she was merely trying to set them up.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Got 5 minutes, wanna say this



OK, I believe what you're saying about the cross-voting. But you - and everyone else - forgot to notice that I also crossed with Zil's vote. And I did indicate that.



If this isn't the worst reason out there for suspecting me.

Here she defends herself.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I don't think you're a long-legged elven blonde, I'm not that nuts yet...

But I will not rest, and most definitely will not be assured, until I see my suspicions proven.

++Pitchie

Seriously, he said and did too many things with double-meanings that just smell like Forgery. I will probably have the chance to duck in again before the DL, but just in case I'm voting now. I doubt that anything will come up that will make me change my mind.

The vote for Pitch, whom she'd been after all Day. It was a very iffy case she was making on him, IMO, which was a major reason I voted for her.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That's right as far as I know. Anyone with a Forge mark (ie wolves and KD) will be called a Forge Member if they die. I think we'll know that it's the SH if she's lynched. If she's killed - obviously.

The fact that the KD's role is not revealed upon death makes things much more difficult for the village. It complicates things for the wolves as well, but they have the benefit of knowing something. Also, they can take information from Nightly conversations. For instance, the KD would try to influence the kill, and a wolf could detect that. But ordinary innocents won't know anything.

Interesting how she mentions the pack gleaning info on the KD during the Nightly chats. Didn't Nerwen bring that up as well?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That's for all of you who couldn't find a single KD clue. ^.^ We know now that he's not the KD, but for all we - and the wolves - kne yesterDay, he mighta been. Though this is the only KD hint I found, and it was said when votes were already starting to fall on him...



I get what you're saying. But, IMO, pressing the point and saying that she may as well be Forging at Night, is a case. And it just sounded ridiculous. The sentense he quoted, albeit a statement, sounds more frivolous than a serious declaration. Reminds me of myself in your game, when I tried to lynch someone for a joke-post.

Upon rereading, I come to be more and more suspicious of Pitchie and Phantom. I can see the twain awake at Night together. "Their swords and their councels may have two edges".... or something of that sort.

And it certainly makes it more difficult for villagers and wolves alike if they don't know the KD's identity. But especially villagers.

She defends her suspicions of Pitch, and brings tp into it again.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I found something else rather curious. TP voted Pitch. Pitch voted Bom. Bom voted TP. Interesting triangle. Contradictory conclusions are the only ones that come to my mind atm, so I'll have to address this again after a night of sleep. From the first look, Pitch and Phantom come out clean and shiny from yesterDay's vote. But I won't rule out a wolf-on-wolf yet. Fine. Forger-on-Forger. But I will still call them wolves. Evil werewolf spirits remain such regardless of who they posess and what shape they take. *stares at phantom*

And since I'm here, I can also say that Pitch is acting abnormal toDay, making an elephant out of a fly with Rikae. This isn't supposed to be related to my previous statement - at least in my head, - but they both stand... I think...

That's it. Bedtime. I'm stuttering in typing.... if that made any sense..... *head drops, eyes close*

Links Bom, Pitch, and tp by their Day 1 votes.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Sure did. And Wilwa hardly said anything at all!

I can't stay for long or go searching for interactions and etc, but from toDay's posts, Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated. I'll be back later with my thoughts in full...

This was the first post of Day 2, and where she started in on Pitch.

She was consistent on Day 2, keeping on Pitch, and to an extent, tp. She doesn't really come across as the KD early in the Day. If she wasn't the KD, all the suspicion against Pitch and tp was a frame-up. But that would implicate Forgers in her lynch.