The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #1
blantyr
Wight
 
blantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Settling down in Bree for the winter.
Posts: 208
blantyr is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
The Eye Morgul

Quote:
Originally Posted by jallanite View Post
That is not clear to me.

There is no reason to believe that Gandalf did or did not intend Morgul- to mean ‘black sorcery’, ‘the Tower of Minas Morgul’, or both at once.
It seems clear to me that Gandalf knows the language and thus the meaning of the word.
blantyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 12:37 PM   #2
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
jallanite is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blantyr View Post
It seems clear to me that Gandalf knows the language and thus the meaning of the word.
It is clear to me also that Gandalf is supposed to know the meaning of the word. What is not clear is which possible meaning Gandalf intends when both suggested meanings may work.
jallanite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 01:42 PM   #3
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jallanite View Post
It is clear to me also that Gandalf is supposed to know the meaning of the word. What is not clear is which possible meaning Gandalf intends when both suggested meanings may work.
I don't know, this is something that is pretty clear to be both meanings. The blades being imbued with "black sorcery" but also being crafted in/around Minas Morgul. In The Siege of Gondor and Pelennor chapters, when necessary there are clear distinctions between the Morgul-host (ergo the host from Minas Morgul) and the other individual parts comprising the entire army (under the command of the Witch-King):

Quote:
...from under the walls came the legions of Morgul and from the southward fields came footmen from Harad with horsemen behind them. ~The Battle of Pelennor Fields
"the legions of Morgul" meaning the host out of Minas Morgul, and to describe the movements of another individual part of the whole host, "footmen from Harad"

And towards the end of the same chapter:

Quote:
Few ever came eastward to Morgul or Mordor...
Basically, "Morgul" is often used, and acceptable shorthand for "Minas Morgul" or in general the area surrounding Minas Morgul...Imlad Morgul, the Morgulduin..etc. And therefor, the Morgul-knives would, to me, mean the knives were made in Morgul, and they just happen to have a fitting double-meaning being blades enchanted with black sorcery.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #4
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
As far as precedents, the knife that unbinds the WiKi's corporeal manifestation is referred to as a "Barrow-blade" (or "blade of Westernesse"), indicating a place name, and not an indication of the runes wound around it. "Morgul-blade" would seem to have the same connotation.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
Morthoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:44 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.