WW XCVI - The Fell Winter of 2911

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so I have re-read Zil's posts and it indeed seems as if, if he dreamt of anybody at all, it was most likely Menel. Of the living people he interacted with/mentioned in some way that it gives merit, apart from him, he mentions G55 negatively, but only once (in relation to his vote), and Kath with sort of nothing-this-way-or-another-seeming statement.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I doubt that framing me in particular was the main motivation, but it's the easiest to do. You just have to look at the tally to suspect me already. Inzil was the first to vote me. But even so, voting me was probably a bonus to it - once again, I'm not that special that the wolves want to frame me that badly. They just want to frame an innocent. And Inzil very conveniently suspected me, ie an innocent. He's the person A from the above scenario.

Well that's again the same thing, it does not really convince me. And so once again, now - are you now saying that you are not so special that the WWs want to frame you, or are you saying that the WWs wanted to frame you, and therefore they attacked Inzil? (Where I still do not entirely perceive the logic.) Now I am really confused as to what you are saying...

Originally Posted by Aganzir

There's also the possibility, even if slight, that the cobbler thwarted Inzil's dream on night 1. Unless I'm totally utterly mistaken, she was allowed to try her luck at the very beginning.

That of course cannot be ruled out, but then again I wonder if even in such a case, the Seer might not have felt obliged to post a hint of "I had no dream toNight". But okay, maybe that's nonsense, because the one person who could decipher it more easily would be the cobbler, and that's probably not the person the Seer would want to know about his identity (even though he couldn't be targeted again by the cobbler, still, the cobbler would probably want to contact the Wolves, and tell them about who the Seer was, if he/she knew the identity of the Seer).

EDIT: x-ed with two votes! and Lommy

[Thinlómien]

After rereading Zil's posts I would say it's more likely he dreamt Menel than Gal, and also possible that he dreamt someone else entirely, but didn't speak a word. (For example the person hadn't said anything he could comment on before he had to vote and leave.) One thing that speaks in Menel-dream's favour is that he was the first person Zil mentioned.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Well that's again the same thing, it does not really convince me. And so once again, now - are you now saying that you are not so special that the WWs want to frame you, or are you saying that the WWs wanted to frame you, and therefore they attacked Inzil? (Where I still do not entirely perceive the logic.) Now I am really confused as to what you are saying...

Well, I'm not here to convince you about something I can only speculate about. I can only explain myself better to make you understand my point, but not to convince you. Unless you're a wolf, then you know as much as I do about what really went on in their minds last Night.

I was saying that wolves like to kill people that lead the village down a false trail to an innocent - any innocent (not specifically me because I'm me, just any innocent that suits them best). Other factors play a role as well, but let's not overcomplicate it. In this case, this "any innocent" happens to be me. So yes, they framed me, but not to frame me specifically, just to frame an innocent.

Is this clearer?

[Galadriel55]

If you're debating about Inzil's dream or fellow wolves saving me yesterDay, think of this:

-knowing that I am likely to go down in the first couple Days - which he does, would Inzil have picked me as his N1 dream? He's not stupid; he knows I am a waste of dream unless I actually survive Day 1 and am suspicious enough to merit one.

-knowing that I wouldn't last anyways, and they could be placed under suspicion for that, would the mates risk saving me? It would be better for them to bus me, unless they are darned nice mates.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If you're debating about Inzil's dream or fellow wolves saving me yesterDay, think of this:

-knowing that I am likely to go down in the first couple Days - which he does, would Inzil have picked me as his N1 dream? He's not stupid; he knows I am a waste of dream unless I actually survive Day 1 and am suspicious enough to merit one

Well, I think that is not a very good point, to be honest.

-knowing that I wouldn't last anyways, and they could be placed under suspicion for that, would the mates risk saving me? It would be better for them to bus me, unless they are darned nice mates.

Whereas this is, yes, I have already been talking about that, too...

EDIT: x-ed since the end of the page

[satansaloser2005]

In the interest of not having another messy lynch, I think I'll keep Galadriel around for another Day. Among other things, it's fun to watch her stew.


I'll be back with actual commentary in a bit.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Among other things, it's fun to watch her stew.

Why don't you ask me to clarify once again why the wolves love to frame people?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

In the interest of not having another messy lynch, I think I'll keep Galadriel around for another Day. Among other things, it's fun to watch her stew.

So G55 and Sally. Who's the third one?

[Nogrod]

G55: I'm okay with any suspicion you throw at me. It's fine and dandy because it's what this game is about: suspect and be suspected, be honest or try to bluff. No problem there. But I hope the next time you call me illogical you actually provide some proof for your claim for that's one thing I strongly deny - and logic or the absence of it can be seen by anyone quite easily as it is there for everyone to see.

Talking about G55 then... After reading the different versions of her "the wolves framed me" -explanation I'm a bit baffled about wht is the thing you G55 are trying make. Are you trying to say that you were the only innocent that suspected another innocent (except Pitch who's already dead) and therefore they picked Zil to frame you? You have been insisting that you are lynched early anyway, so why didn't the wolves trust on that too and frame someone else who's normally harder to lynch? I mean why kick a can that's already rolling down the slope?

It is quite evident that there is no easy or clear interpretation on hand for why the wolves killed Inzil out of everyone else, but as he was the seer indeed, we can't dismiss the possibility they did choose him for a reason. And the only decent reason in that direction (them thinking Zil the seer) seems to be that you G55 are one of them and they got upset.

That doesn't mean we "know" they tried to kill the seer, but if seership was their reason (the suspicion of him being the seer), then it's probably you G55. And I must say some of your posting toDay looks quite bothering in that respect.


PS. You have a nice new concept for making analyses of other people's posting: let's not quote what the analysed player says but let's quote our own comments on their posts...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Galadriel - pretty fishy. But she's totally right about herself taking all the attention and that being very harmful if she's not a wolf herself.

Let's make a compromise: you can lynch me as long as you concentrate on other players too toDay. And by "you" I mean the whole village. At least this way some good could be done.

Oh, I see some new posts. sally must be very happy.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But I hope the next time you call me illogical you actually provide some proof for your claim for that's one thing I strongly deny - and logic or the absence of it can be seen by anyone quite easily as it is there for everyone to see.

If you actually read my analysis, you'd see what exactly I was calling "illogical" and why I'm saying that. And I know that you pride yourself in being logical, which is exactly why I cannot dismiss things that don't make sense that are comming from you as easily as when they are coming from someone else.

Obviously. And sorry for the bad phrasing... and you Pitch know that too - that it was bad phrasing * which someone like you would not have used as a pretext to partly justify your vote...

Pitch clearly says that his reason for voting you is because you stand in the doorway between suspecting and not suspecting.

Forgive me my silly question, but where do I pick a suspection by you on Menel?

When you continued questioning his defense of the obvious truth.

Aren't you now just admitting you tried out something?

Pitch made a point against Menel. Others have repeated it. Is one now, by your logic, not allowed to make points against people?

Or should I vote you because you "made a point about Menel"? The reason behind that vote would be as good as yours...

Pitch gave an acceptible reason for his vote. This is absurd, and you have to know it.

Originally Posted by Nog

Talking about G55 then... After reading the different versions of her "the wolves framed me" -explanation I'm a bit baffled about wht is the thing you G55 are trying make.

Bottom line is, I'm gonna vote the next person who asks.

No, I'm not serious, but geez people!

Originally Posted by Nog

Are you trying to say that you were the only innocent that suspected another innocent (except Pitch who's already dead) and therefore they picked Zil to frame you?

Not you, Nog! Inzil is an innocent who suspected another innocent (me).

Originally Posted by Nog

You have been insisting that you are lynched early anyway, so why didn't the wolves trust on that too and frame someone else who's normally harder to lynch? I mean why kick a can that's already rolling down the slope?

First of all, do you expect me to read the wolves' minds? I'm telling you I've been framed because that's what it is. What do you want me to do? Hack into a wolve's account and quote their Nightly discussions for you?

My guess is that they can't have two lynches at once. If the "someone else" was to be framed and lynched, I wouldn't be lynched. There are no double lynches. It's just easier to lynch me and less work to frame me.

Originally Posted by Nog

It is quite evident that there is no easy or clear interpretation on hand for why the wolves killed Inzil out of everyone else, but as he was the seer indeed, we can't dismiss the possibility they did choose him for a reason. And the only decent reason in that direction (them thinking Zil the seer) seems to be that you G55 are one of them and they got upset.

Well then vote me.

Originally Posted by Nog

PS. You have a nice new concept for making analyses of other people's posting: let's not quote what the analysed player says but let's quote our own comments on their posts...

Do you have a problem with what I said in my post that I quoted? Or is it the quote tags around it that bother you?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

WHAT?

Really?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Wwhat way would you put it?

The sarcastic way.


sally, I hope you were entertained.

[Galadriel55]

PS: I'm going away for 3hours or so soon, but I'll be back to vote. Maybe I'll have time to slip in a post or two before I go.

[Galadriel55]

I know I'm suspicious, since I usually gather suspicion faster than a bucket gathers rainwater during a storm. There's really no way I would be able to convince you that I'm an innocent, in any way other than being toDay's lynch. But I want you to have this in mind: the wolves will benefit more from my lynch than the innocents.

If I'm lynched, the wolves will be having a nice party this Night, since their ploy worked, and because of how little this would benefit the villagers. If, by some miraculous chance, I am not lynched, then I'm likely to be lynched the next Day so no big deal. And anyways, I'm taking the attention off them.

Meanwhile, from the innocents' side: if I'm lynched, my death won't give you anything. I am not a wolf, hence all the possibilities you've come up with for yesterDay's vote tally will fly to pieces; as I said, there were two innocent bandwagons - and try to find who's the wolf in that. I wish you luck. You can't get information from my death, only a loss of an extra person in the innocent's count. You can't even judge who's innocent based on how hard they pushed my lynch, since I am genuinely suspicious and more innocents are likely to vote me than wolves.

The only thing you could possibly gain from my death is some clarity in the village. At least you won't waste your time on me and focus on the wolves - something I've been trying to make you do for the past half a Day, but the talk keeps returning to me. I guess it's a futile task to try and stop you from suspecting me while I'm still around. And I can't convince you not to lynch me, since, well, the suspicion and attention will not stop until I'm dead. Someone will always say "we should have lynched her".



Well, that's that. Think.

Edit: xed with Legate and Agan